Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Hudlin's Huddle => Hudlin's Huddle => Topic started by: Reginald Hudlin on June 04, 2012, 05:47:53 am

Title: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 04, 2012, 05:47:53 am
DAVID EVANS:

Reggie,
 
The following are some thoughts about those critics who are more interested in disrupting President Obama’s programs/policies than long-term solutions to the nation’s problems.
 
Best regards,
 
 
 
Dave
___________________________________________________________________
 
There is a difference between “The Ship of State” and the “state of the Ship.”
 
The Ship of State is 236 years old and has survived a Civil War in which nearly three-quarters of a million citizens died, the Great Depression when the unemployment rate ran as high as 25% and World War II.  Even so, our venerable and enduring Ship held its course and our country emerged from all those calamities as arguably the greatest nation in the history of the world.
 
On the other hand, the state of the Ship is an on-going and short-term assessment of national politics, economics, employment, citizen interaction, etc., etc.  “The Ship of State” and “state of the Ship” have the exact same letters, but the one must not be confused with the other, lest political slogans and short-term fixes be confused with long-term solutions.
 
 “The Ship of State” is presently riding out a storm and some short-sighted individuals ignore our history and describe the current “state of the Ship” as irreparably damaged.  They ignore (or conveniently forget) how the old vessel, although tossed and battered, prevailed at Valley Forge and Gettysburg, through soup lines in the 1930s, amidst the shock of Pearl Harbor, across the Beaches at Normandy and it sailed ever forward despite the heavy prices paid for victories at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
 
Perhaps we should remind them that, when a storm rages, it is not wise to replace the crew with sailors who bring more panic or antagonism to the task than seamanship.  By frightening the passengers and exhibiting behavior that verges on mutiny, such sailors will often demand that the captain sail back or forward to some imagined or politically constructed port that, frankly, never really existed.
 
The 2010 election sent such a “crew of sailors” to Congress and The Ship of State has since moved with fits and starts—to the detriment of all.  Imagine what might have happened to the country had the 1862 national election sent a similar majority to Washington more interested in obstructing Lincoln than winning the war.  Moreover, would the nation have emerged from the Great Depression had the voters sent hundreds of bitter conservatives to Congress in 1934 to thwart FDR’s many social programs?  Try to contemplate our fate in World War II if a majority of those elected to Congress in 1940 and 1942 had been affiliates of the “America First Committee” or the “Keep America Out of the War Committee.”
 
Incidentally, war-time helmsmen Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt were allowed to steer The Ship of State for a second term.  Our country and the world are the better because 148 and 78 years ago Americans realized that the state of the Ship is not the same as The Ship of State and re-elected Lincoln and Roosevelt.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Battle on June 04, 2012, 12:53:15 pm
Strong analogy!(http://www.hudlinentertainment.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 17, 2012, 07:58:23 am
DAVID EVANS:
Moreover, would the nation have emerged from the Great Depression had the voters sent hundreds of bitter conservatives to Congress in 1934 to thwart FDR’s many social programs?


Absolutely, YES.  FDR's policies prolonged the Great Depression.

Seems that Popeye must have been smokin' somethin' in his corn cob other than tobacco, when he wrote his rhetorical question.

(http://img.youtube.com/vi/rd7yNoHbZuA/0.jpg)
         "FDR just needs to put mucilage on the fuselage!"
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 17, 2012, 09:27:39 am
FDR is the greatest American President.  Not that you would agree, Mike, but just stating it. 
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 18, 2012, 07:44:05 am
Reginald, I couldn't agree with you more ... errr, the first clause of your second sentence, that is. Haha.  ;)

FDR's policies did not end the Great Depression. WWII and the post-War boom did.

Some economists have concluded that FDR's economic policies made things much worse.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

How Government Prolonged the Depression
Policies that decreased competition in product and labor markets were especially destructive.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html

Not to mention Roosevelt's indifference to the plight of Jewish refugees (turning many away and denying entry to more), his indifference to the extermination of the Jews of Europe, his refusal to bomb the railroad tracks to the Nazi Death Camps, etc. He also interned American citizens of Japanese ancestry solely on the basis of their race. But not Italian-Americans or German-Americans.

Roosevelt was a good public speaker, I'll give him credit for that. He also didn't capitulate to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Though to a meaningful degree he did to the Soviet Union. He was also far too lax in permitting the infiltration of his Administration by stooges of Stalin (which directly affected America's Soviet policy, after the war America's China policy, as well as other policies). With effects then, and to this day.

He started the ball rolling on the expansion of the Central State and the undermining of the Constitution as a document intended to limit the centralization of power.

He was President during dramatic times. We don't know how another man would have faired. Some could have done much better, some much worse.  In my opinion.  
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 18, 2012, 07:28:35 pm
World War ONE proves you wrong. After World War ONE America was number one at the concluding peace conference in Paris of the year 1919. 70%, America was in the same position immediately after World War ONE as it was during post World War TWO. Woodrow Wilson, who re-segregated the American Post Office in America, tried to be a leader to the world and failed miserably. 25 years later, FDR would show the world real global leadership.

One glaring difference is how America treated veterans. After World War ONE they were kicked out of Washington DC by the Republican sweetheart General Douglas MacArthur. After World War TWO veterans were given access to the socialist GI Bill, created by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 18, 2012, 09:42:53 pm
Roosevelt was dead before World War II ended, and thus he provided no global leadership after the war. Before that, he and his negotiators handed over Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union.

Furthermore, it is unfair to attribute the GI Bill to Roosevelt, as if he were its creator. The American Legion designed the main features of what became the Serviceman’s Readjustment Act and pushed it through Congress. The bill unanimously passed both chambers of Congress in the spring of 1944. See http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=76  

Harry W. Colmery, a former national commander of the American Legion and former Republican National Chairman, is credited with drawing up the first draft of the GI Bill. It was introduced in the House on Jan. 10, 1944, and in the Senate the following day. Both chambers approved their own versions of the bill.

But the struggle was just heating up. The bill almost died when Senate and House members came together to debate their versions. Both groups agreed on the education and home loan benefits, but were deadlocked on the unemployment provision.

Ultimately, Rep. John Gibson of Georgia was rushed in to cast the tie-breaking vote. The Senate approved the final form of the bill on June 12, and the House followed on June 13. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed it into law on June 22, 1944.

See http://www.gibill.va.gov/benefits/history_timeline/index.html

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 18, 2012, 11:08:02 pm
What impresses me is what effective propagandists Roosevelt and his allies were. So many people swallowed their hype and still do to this day.  Even Popeye the Sailor Man, author of the article that Reginald shared above. 
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 12:35:33 am
Another point about Roosevelt's success:
Roosevelt did not believe in Trickle Down wealth
Roosevelt promoted the All Around health
The Middle Class grew exponentially.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 12:42:19 am
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.

The funny thing is that it was Roosevelt who saved the Hatfields and McCoys.
The sad thing is that Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964
Take a look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1956.
Now look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1964
Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Battle on June 19, 2012, 02:11:09 am
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.

The funny thing is that it was Roosevelt who saved the Hatfields and McCoys.
The sad thing is that Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964
Take a look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1956.
Now look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1964
Hillbilly Republican Logic.







I wouldn't have done that...   ...run to michaelintp's defense, that is.  I'm still convinced that he's a draft-dodging, cheap-ass lawyer stereotype who thinks people respects his waning wsp here at HEF.



Also, consider that President Roosevelt (like President Lincoln) was chosen & elected during a time when America was at its very worse state in the 20th century (Great Depression, World War II) just as America was at its very worse in the 19th century (American Civil War).
FDR's leadership created an indelible image that  encouraged Americans to be more motivated in their endeavors: An old man in a wheelchair making calls from the highest political office in the Nation giving you the impression that if he can do it, you can do it, too.  It off started with his campaign song, "Happy Days Are Here Again"  and the words[paraphrasing], "...You [Americans] have  nothing to fear but fear itself." which helped build moral tremendously when Americans were feeling at thier worse. His presidential election was a success!
FDR stayed in contact with Americans through 'social media'  with "fireside chat" radio addresses that set the standard that President Obama follows utilizing all forms of social media today (internet, radio, television, etc) to keep Americans informed. Think of FDR's leadership style sort of like Professor Xavier from the X-Men.



This is the leadership quality that the current political opposition lacks.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 06:49:24 am
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.
I wouldn't have done that...   ...run to michaelintp's defense, that is.  I'm still convinced that he's a draft-dodging, cheap-ass lawyer stereo-type who thinks people respects his waning wsp here at HEF.

I know, Tanksleyd, I too am so tired of people constantly running to my defense on the Hudlin Entertainment Forum. I can understand how all of this moral and intellectual support that I am constantly given has become quite tiresome to those who disagree with me on any topic.  :P

I agree that Roosevelt was a good propagandist and a good public speaker who used the Media well.
 
I hope some of the factual information that I shared, above, about the Great Depression and the GI Bill, is of interest. I found it interesting. As to the other issues I mentioned, I stand by my view that Roosevelt had some problems in what he did that disqualify him from being our "greatest" President.  Of course if ones primary criteria is the initiation of income redistribution, well then, I understand why Roosevelt is placed on your pedestal. Anyway, who cares about Roosevelt. I don't, not all that much, anyway.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 07:08:51 am
In spite of your Hillbilly Republican Logic Franklin Delano Roosevelt was America's favorite and most elected president.

Republicans, using Hillbilly Republican Logic and fearing Roosevelt's popularity which can also be measured in how long Democrats held congress after his death, pushed through term limits. So funny that the next/first/only person affected by those limits was Ronald Reagan.

Soon though Americans will realize that it is not Trickle Down wealth but All Around health that made America great. The wheelchair president understood quite well that: "To support the least of us, elevates the whole of us" (TM).

BTW: Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964.

PS: It seems that Battle remembers your salvation quite well.
I merely remember Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 07:46:30 am
Linda Tripp for instance, is an excellent example of Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 07:52:03 am
In the spirit of the hour, pursuant to new regulations, I've got corn cobb pipes available to distribute to all. Oh, excuse me, I mean Meerschaums. ;D  I'll be standing right next to the sign with the big green cross.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 07:54:43 am
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

More voters beheld Franklin Delano Roosevelt than any other American.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 07:59:49 am
FDR is the greatest American President.  Not that you would agree, Mike, but just stating it. 

So Reginald, despite some of the factors and considerations that I raised above, why do you believe FDR to be America's GREATEST President? Since you started this digression, the least you can do is share your reasons. Instead of just tweaking me in the belly-button with your cyber-index-finger, hahahaha.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 08:01:36 am
Sarah Palin though is the reigning queen of Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 19, 2012, 08:02:51 am
I have time to think out this in detail, but off the top of my head:

Greatest war time president.

Steered us out of the Great Depression.

WPA programs not only put Americans back to work, but made great public works projects from that we still benefit from today.  

Among those he hired were artists that fed the nation's soul.

Social security.

Great wife who was a leader in racial integration.

The GI Bill which you don't want to give him credit for.  

Did all this while fighting a debilitating disease.  

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 08:13:02 am
Hillbilly Republican Logic tells us that America's most elected president during her "most finest hour" was a failure. With the nerve to wear a straight face as they lie to our children in the name of John Wayne's Wild, wild west. When men were men and all others knew their place: Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Hillbilly Republican Logic claims that only war saved Roosevelt on the perfected theory that war supports an economy. Yet America still awaits the Trickle Down oil of Iraq.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 09:24:43 am
I have time to think out this in detail, but off the top of my head:

Greatest war time president.

Steered us out of the Great Depression.

WPA programs not only put Americans back to work, but made great public works projects from that we still benefit from today.  

Among those he hired were artists that fed the nation's soul.

Social security.

Great wife who was a leader in racial integration.

The GI Bill which you don't want to give him credit for.  

Did all this while fighting a debilitating disease.  


Thanks Reg.  Well, I see a mixed bag more than you do, for the reasons I stated. Had we recovered sooner from the Depression absent some misplaced Federal meddling who knows what would have been. But I understand where you are coming from as to the programs you cite. I do think Evans got it wrong though, in his overstatement that it was FDR's programs that caused us to emerge from the Great Depression.  

We were attacked in WWII and there was overwhelming bipartisan support for the war effort, of course. So after Pearl Harbor FDR didn't have to deal with partisan backbiting. Despite FDR's accomplishments, as we did win the war, I've shared my concerns as to the Jews, the Japanese-Americans, and the Soviets.

You'll get no disagreement from me regarding Eleanor's support for integration. But that was Elenor. In my view that doesn't make her husband the greatest President.

I have no agenda regarding the GI Bill. Other than the truth. I was actually surprised by what I learned last night when I looked into its history. I bet you didn't know what I found either, regarding the central role of its Republican author and the American Legion. Interesting, eh?

And again, thanks for so quickly responding with your thoughts. Helps to know where you are coming from for sure.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 12:17:04 pm
I have time to think out this in detail, but off the top of my head:

Greatest war time president.

Steered us out of the Great Depression.

WPA programs not only put Americans back to work, but made great public works projects from that we still benefit from today.  

Among those he hired were artists that fed the nation's soul.

Social security.

Great wife who was a leader in racial integration.

The GI Bill which you don't want to give him credit for.  

Did all this while fighting a debilitating disease.  



America gained more from World War Two than any other. Making up for the lost opportunity of World War ONE.

Roosevelt's policies of 1933 outlived all the industrialized governments of it's time to include The Commonwealth.

WPA not only employed millions it also began the restoration of the America infrastructure: The greatest Trickle Down wealth effect of all time, contributing directly to the All Around health.

FDR presided at a time when American art leap-frogged the world and to this day has never looked back.

Social Security makes a mockery of the declining value of 401K, popularized under Ronald Reagan (along with Nixon's HMO).

Yes, even he hid behind Eleanor when convenient. Nothing new there as Republicans are fond to say.

Ronald Reagan actually capped (cut/eliminated) the lifetime education benefit of the original GI Bill.

Reagan did this while creating a record breaking debt AND deficit.

One wonders, just who is the favorite president of Hillbilly Republicans?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 12:34:08 pm
PS: The GI Bill was (is) 100% Socialist (with a capital "S") from a time when the top tax rate approached 91%.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 12:43:09 pm
The sad thing is that Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 02:26:56 pm
(http://www.library.olemiss.edu/exhibits/hail_to_the_chief/images/blues/fdr_blues.jpg)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 02:35:06 pm
Another point about Roosevelt's success:
Roosevelt did not believe in Trickle Down wealth
Roosevelt promoted the All Around health
And the Middle Class grew exponentially.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 02:37:42 pm
Mitt Romney by default, of course, is the king of Hillbilly Republican Logic:
What issue has he NOT flipped on?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Battle on June 19, 2012, 04:00:34 pm
The term 'wealth distribution' is probably one of the most misleading political complaints of all:
It implies that someone who earns a meager $12,000 - $16,000  a year who pays income taxes is wealthy. ;D

The term should really be 'contribution' as a legal requirement to help make this country run.


Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 04:10:52 pm
Beyond Reagan's Trickle Down deficit one wonders, just who is the favorite president of Republicans?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 04:38:01 pm
Mexico has the richest man.
Canada has the richer society.
Which direction will America go?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 05:17:52 pm
Beyond Reagan's Trickle Down deficit one wonders, just who is the favorite president of Republicans?

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQoo3aqE6V11D3PX6is4HsqQFGEHUDYup-x69AVjxKaLQbaz9On)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 05:27:27 pm
Lincoln: The original big/central government president and the creator of the first income tax.
Excellent choice for one who wants to return America to the Wild, wild west.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 07:19:58 pm
The term 'wealth distribution' is probably one of the most misleading political complaints of all:
It implies that someone who earns a meager $12,000 - $16,000  a year who pays income taxes is wealthy. ;D

The term should really be 'contribution' as a legal requirement to help make this country run.

I agree. That's what taxes should be for.  :)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 19, 2012, 07:37:15 pm
It is not Lincoln per se, it is the Republican desire to return America to the 1800's per se.

aka: Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 19, 2012, 08:21:56 pm
Mexico has the richest man.
Canada has the richer society.
Which direction will America go?
POWERFUL QUESTION.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 19, 2012, 10:09:40 pm
That we as Americans have descended to the point that we must now discuss which other nation the United States of America must emulate reveals how ill as people we have become.

As a general matter, not with reference to any specific country, I will say that neither rigid egalitarianism nor rigid elitism appeal to me.

We are much better than either. Or we used to be.

But, then, at this point perhaps we do deserve what we get.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:34:54 am
Hillbilly Republicans have always been impressed by big words.
I am impressed by FDR.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 05:52:48 am
Mexico has the richest man.
Canada has the richer society.
Which direction will America go?
POWERFUL QUESTION.

The power is that shown the fallacy of Reagan's deficit, Hillbilly Republican Logic can only point to Socialist policies and big government presidents as steps forward in America.

The best articulation of Hillbilly Republicans is to return to the Every-Man-For-Himself America of John Wayne's Wild, wild west in Lincoln's 19th Century...before April 15, 1865.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 06:05:59 am
The state of the ship?

Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps of 1956 and 1964.
Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps east of the Mississippi.
Look at the Confederacy and the Union of Mr. Lincoln's 1864.
Yes Hillbilly Republicans want to return to '64 alright.

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

The state of the ship?

All industrialized nations have socialized medicine except the one with large racial populations.

The biggest force in the history of American politics: "They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 08:09:01 am
Reginald, I've a serious question for you personally. Regarding rhetoric surrounding the GI Bill passed with strong. bipartisan support in 1944. I imagine you were as surprised as I was to learn that the original author was the former Chairman of the Republican National Committee and former president of the American Legion, and that the American Legion played a central role in pushing through that legislation. I understand that in ignorance you (and I) believed it to be a Democratic achievement. However, now we both know of the central Republican role as well. So I'm wondering if, in the future when you hear people making misleading or inaccurate statements to take sole credit for their party or to FDR alone, do you intend, out of fairness, to correct them?  Because it clearly was a bipartisan product. An important one.  

The reason I'm asking is that at times I have corrected conservatives when they cite a falsehood or misleading point to support a position. Yet I have also seen zealous advocates continue to do so, even when they know the truth, I suppose under the rationale that the end justifies the means.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 20, 2012, 08:21:54 am
I didn't know the origin of the GI Bill, and if it was a bipartisan one, but that was from an era where Republicans worked together with Democrats for the good of the American people.  They understood that government is a powerful tool to help people, not the root of all evil.  Today's Republican Party would NEVER come up with the idea or allow it to pass.  Today's Republicans are too committed to partisan politics above the common good to support a Democratic President doing something that would help that many non-wealthy Americans. 
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 08:28:11 am
Reginald, I've a serious question for you personally. Regarding rhetoric surrounding the GI Bill passed with strong. bipartisan support in 1944. I imagine you were as surprised as I was to learn that the original author was the former Chairman of the Republican National Committee and former president of the American Legion, and that the American Legion played a central role in pushing through that legislation. I understand that in ignorance you (and I) believed it to be a Democratic achievement. However, now we both know of the central Republican role as well. So I'm wondering if, in the future when you hear people making misleading or inaccurate statements to take sole credit for their party or to FDR alone, do you intend, out of fairness, to correct them?  Because it clearly was a bipartisan product. An important one.  

The reason I'm asking is that at times I have corrected conservatives when they cite a falsehood or misleading point to support a position. Yet I have also seen zealous advocates continue to do so, even when they know the truth, I suppose under the rationale that the end justifies the means.

Supporting Socialist high tax programs that Reagan capped

or

Hillbilly Republican Logic?

Only her hairdresser knows for sure.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 08:31:53 am
Hillbilly Republican Logic tells us that America's most elected president during her "most finest hour" was a failure. With the nerve to wear a straight face as they lie to our children in the name of John Wayne's Wild, wild west. When men were men and all others knew their place: Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Hillbilly Republican Logic claims that only war saved Roosevelt on the perfected theory that war supports an economy. Yet America still awaits the Trickle Down oil of Iraq.

With the nerve to wear a straight face as they lie to our children in the name of John Wayne's Wild, wild west.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 08:34:25 am
The state of the ship?

Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps of 1956 and 1964.
Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps east of the Mississippi.
Look at the Confederacy and the Union of Mr. Lincoln's 1864.
Yes Hillbilly Republicans want to return to '64 alright.

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

The state of the ship?

All industrialized nations have socialized medicine except the one with large racial populations.

The biggest force in the history of American politics: "They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.



Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 09:07:36 am
I didn't know the origin of the GI Bill, and if it was a bipartisan one, but that was from an era where Republicans worked together with Democrats for the good of the American people.  They understood that government is a powerful tool to help people, not the root of all evil.  Today's Republican Party would NEVER come up with the idea or allow it to pass.  Today's Republicans are too committed to partisan politics above the common good to support a Democratic President doing something that would help that many non-wealthy Americans. 

Oh for heaven's sake. You didn't answer my question. There is no "if."  I provided you the links, including from the Government website, for a reason.  Nor were the Republicans merely "supporting" the President. That is inaccurate spin. The Republicans played a central originating role. Do you intend in the future to correct any mistatement of this fact?  Of course doing so would not prevent you from expressing your opinion of the Republican party of 2012, but that is a different point.

I'm asking because I know what I would do.

As to your opinion, as I recall the Bush budgets had significant funds allocated to entitlements and social programs and federal agencies. But that is another issue. Here, I'm more interested in your approach to political discourse.   

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 09:12:38 am
Success has many fathers but the GI Bill was a Socialist high tax program that Ronald Reagan capped.

Hillbilly Republican Logic promotes Lincoln's income tax and belittles Roosevelt's masterful use of that tax.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 09:17:49 am
I didn't know the origin of the GI Bill, and if it was a bipartisan one, but that was from an era where Republicans worked together with Democrats for the good of the American people.  They understood that government is a powerful tool to help people, not the root of all evil.  Today's Republican Party would NEVER come up with the idea or allow it to pass.  Today's Republicans are too committed to partisan politics above the common good to support a Democratic President doing something that would help that many non-wealthy Americans. 

Oh for heaven's sake. You didn't answer my question. There is no "if."  I provided you the links, including from the Government website, for a reason.  Nor were the Republicans merely "supporting" the President. That is inaccurate spin. The Republicans played a central originating role. Do you intend in the future to correct any mistatement of this fact?  Of course doing so would not prevent you from expressing your opinion of the Republican party of 2012, but that is a different point.

I'm asking because I know what I would do.

As to your opinion, as I recall the Bush budgets had significant funds allocated to entitlements and social programs and federal agencies. But that is another issue. Here, I'm more interested in your approach to political discourse.   



The question was answered in the person of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Your only reply took place before April, 1865 and you can only point to a high tax program as proof of GOP Republican integrity.

The truth of the matter is that Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964. Your attempts to state otherwise only amount to the "welfare Queen" of Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 10:09:01 am
The State of the Ship?

As Walker of Wisconsin enjoys the success of Reagan Democrats who forgot to vote in 2010, historians are finally understanding: What has gotten better for the Middle Class (THAT GREW EXPONENTIALLY AFTER FDR's World War TWO), what has gotten better for the Middle Class after Reagan fired the Union?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 20, 2012, 10:56:00 am
Let me be more clear Michael...the I don't subscribe to the partisan thinking of today's GOP.  They will reject their own ideas if Democrats embrace it.  That wasn't always the case with the Republicans. But it's ruining our country today.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 11:19:31 am
In fact the RomneyCare model for Obama was created by Bob Dole as a response to Clinton's Universal Healthcare plan.

A Republican idea, now cursed by Republicans!
aka: Hillbilly Republican Logic (will ruin America).
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 11:48:44 am
Let me be more clear Michael...the I don't subscribe to the partisan thinking of today's GOP.  They will reject their own ideas if Democrats embrace it.  That wasn't always the case with the Republicans. But it's ruining our country today.

Yes, I understand this is your opinion of the GOP today.

My question is whether you would correct or condone the misrepresentation of historical fact.  Because I've seen people including yourself giving credit only to FDR and the Democrats for the GI Bill. That is factually inaccurate if they don't also acknowledge the central role Republicans played at the time. I'm pressing the point as I'm really curious whether on reflection you would correct someone or not? 

Are you an "end justifies the means" guy or a "state the facts accurately and let the chips fall where they may" guy or some other kinda guy?

I think this is a fair thing to ask about.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 20, 2012, 12:04:04 pm
Egads.  Are you so desperate to claim Republican credit for the one "socialist" bill that you can't deny has great value that you will keep pressing this point?  Because that is exactly the kind of partisan thinking I'm talking about.

Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves.

Eisenhower warned us the military industrial complex. 

Nixon opened relations to China.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.  I judge the idea, not the party it comes from. 

But you and the party you represent can't do the same.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 12:50:11 pm
The GI Bill was but a cap of FDR's Socialist policies that elevated and integrated Rural American in-bred, illiterate Hillbillies into "American" society. The final piece of this integration perhaps was when Country music radio finally entered the markets in northeastern cities in the 1980's along with the arrival of the CMA awards national broadcast.

With massive taxation and government spending Roosevelt built a national infrastructure of dams from the Hoover Dam to the TVA that literally electrified the countryside. Yes welfare as we knew it was created to assist these Rural in-breds. Meanwhile the stereotypical Black of the day cowered in the south share-cropping for pennies and White European immigrants creating the Mafia in the Urban north slapping granddaddy for protection money bootleg.

Finally when mass-media revealed the true treatment of cowering Blacks, a rich playboy president cut taxes just in time for Blacks to sit in the front of the bus. Thus while Rural America celebrated it's first generation as a college educated, home owning Middle Class directly due in large part to the GI bill, the funding for Black America's new status post July 2, 1964 was cut. So Johnson's Great Society to elevate Blacks was never funded as was Roosevelt's New Deal that elevated Hillbillies.

When Reagan placed his cap of "Welfare Queen" and capped/cut/eliminated the GI Bill's lifetime education benefit, few realized it but the exponential growth of Roosevelt's Middle Class had come to an end.

Hillbilly Republican Logic has blinded us to the Roosevelt wheelchair fact that when the least of us is supported, the whole of us is elevated.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 12:58:08 pm
Let me be more clear Michael...the I don't subscribe to the partisan thinking of today's GOP.  They will reject their own ideas if Democrats embrace it.  That wasn't always the case with the Republicans. But it's ruining our country today.

Yes, I understand this is your opinion of the GOP today.

My question is whether you would correct or condone the misrepresentation of historical fact.  Because I've seen people including yourself giving credit only to FDR and the Democrats for the GI Bill. That is factually inaccurate if they don't also acknowledge the central role Republicans played at the time. I'm pressing the point as I'm really curious whether on reflection you would correct someone or not? 

Are you an "end justifies the means" guy or a "state the facts accurately and let the chips fall where they may" guy or some other kinda guy?

I think this is a fair thing to ask about.

Was it fair for Hillbilly Republicans to take flight before they would integrate with Blacks for a better America?

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

The entire industrialized world embraces the word "Socialist" except the one with large racial (Civil Righted) populations....Is that fair?

Perhaps as it is with Brazil, even more Affirmative Action is needed in America.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:02:30 pm
Let me be more clear Michael...the I don't subscribe to the partisan thinking of today's GOP.  They will reject their own ideas if Democrats embrace it.  That wasn't always the case with the Republicans. But it's ruining our country today.

Grandmom's Death Panels were not created for clarity.
Grandmom's Death Panels were created with Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:03:40 pm
I didn't know the origin of the GI Bill, and if it was a bipartisan one, but that was from an era where Republicans worked together with Democrats for the good of the American people.  They understood that government is a powerful tool to help people, not the root of all evil.  Today's Republican Party would NEVER come up with the idea or allow it to pass.  Today's Republicans are too committed to partisan politics above the common good to support a Democratic President doing something that would help that many non-wealthy Americans. 

Oh for heaven's sake. You didn't answer my question. There is no "if."  I provided you the links, including from the Government website, for a reason.  Nor were the Republicans merely "supporting" the President. That is inaccurate spin. The Republicans played a central originating role. Do you intend in the future to correct any mistatement of this fact?  Of course doing so would not prevent you from expressing your opinion of the Republican party of 2012, but that is a different point.

I'm asking because I know what I would do.

As to your opinion, as I recall the Bush budgets had significant funds allocated to entitlements and social programs and federal agencies. But that is another issue. Here, I'm more interested in your approach to political discourse.   



The question was answered in the person of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Your only reply took place before April, 1865 and you can only point to a high tax program as proof of GOP Republican integrity.

The truth of the matter is that Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964. Your attempts to state otherwise only amount to the "welfare Queen" of Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Your only reply took place before April, 1865 and you can only point to a high tax program as proof of GOP Republican integrity.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:22:10 pm
They claim the last election by accusing the president of placing grandmom into a death panel and now they want to be fair...

...Like I said, Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 01:26:42 pm
 
Egads.  Are you so desperate to claim Republican credit for the one "socialist" bill that you can't deny has great value that you will keep pressing this point?  Because that is exactly the kind of partisan thinking I'm talking about.

Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves.

Eisenhower warned us the military industrial complex.  

Nixon opened relations to China.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.  I judge the idea, not the party it comes from.  

But you and the party you represent can't do the same.

Reginald, I represent only myself. I am not a tool of any political party. Given who I have expressed criticism of in the past, you know that is true.

I don't know why you're forcing me to try to read between the lines here. It sounds like you are saying that you are willing to give the historical Republicans of 1944 equal credit for the GI Bill.  And that you would correct someone who misstated that historical fact. That's all I was curious about. Sounds like a "yes" favoring correction of inaccuracy.

I don't care that much about the specific issue here. I was asking more about your personal style in discussing politics. How you see yourself.

For the record though, I believe WWII veterans deserved the GI Bill, given their sacrifice and the disruption of their lives. They earned it.  If you wish to call recognition of our war veterans "socialist" then I'm a socialist, hahahaha.   ;D
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:42:45 pm
I represent the policies of FDR and the time that I was born when the top tax rate was 91% and the infrastructure was built out in a way that MASSIVELY benefits ALL of America to this day.

You represent a backwards way of thinking that can only point to the Wild, wild west pre-1865 as the ideal government. You represent a force that would lie to the children of America to claim that our most elected president during our "finest hour" was a failure. You represent a lie that cannot admit the reality of May 17, 1954 and July 2, 1964. Since that time period and the articulation of Ronald Reagan firing a complete Middle Class Union there has been an assault on Public Health, Public Education and Public Transportation that I have come to know as Hillbilly Republican Logic that you represent so very well.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:45:32 pm
Egads.  Are you so desperate to claim Republican credit for the one "socialist" bill that you can't deny has great value that you will keep pressing this point?  Because that is exactly the kind of partisan thinking I'm talking about.

Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves.

Eisenhower warned us the military industrial complex.  

Nixon opened relations to China.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.  I judge the idea, not the party it comes from.  

But you and the party you represent can't do the same.

Reginald, I represent only myself. I am not a tool of any political party. Given who I have expressed criticism of in the past, you know that is true.

I don't know why you're forcing me to try to read between the lines here. It sounds like you are saying that you are willing to give the historical Republicans of 1944 equal credit for the GI Bill.  And that you would correct someone who misstated that historical fact. That's all I was curious about. Sounds like a "yes" favoring correction of inaccuracy.

I don't care that much about the specific issue here. I was asking more about your personal style in discussing politics. How you see yourself.

For the record though, I believe WWII veterans deserved the GI Bill, given their sacrifice and the disruption of their lives. They earned it.  If you wish to call recognition of our war veterans "socialist" then I'm a socialist, hahahaha.   ;D

Why do you lie to children?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 01:54:48 pm
http://crooksandliars.com/2008/05/22/modernized-gi-bill-passes-despite-opposition-from-mccain-bush

Fact of the matter is that the modern GI Bill faced serious GOP Republican opposition. So just is it was with Reagan (who capped/cut/eliminated lifetime GI bill education benefits) what Republicans represent is a lie that says that they respect Veterans yet avoid benefits and the taxes to pay for them.

aka: Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 02:02:22 pm
http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/bonusarmy.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonus_Army

Yes success has many fathers but when Republicans were in charge after World War ONE Veterans were kicked out of Washington DC so that present day Republicans could lie to American children on the true significance of Roosevelt. Representing so well a full display of Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 02:10:40 pm
Egads.  Are you so desperate to claim Republican credit for the one "socialist" bill that you can't deny has great value that you will keep pressing this point?  Because that is exactly the kind of partisan thinking I'm talking about.

Lincoln, a Republican, freed the slaves.

Eisenhower warned us the military industrial complex. 

Nixon opened relations to China.

I have no problem giving credit where credit is due.  I judge the idea, not the party it comes from. 

But you and the party you represent can't do the same.

The Voter Id laws, the Florida purge of 2012 and the Florida election of 2000. The Linda Tripp logic that took place while Newt was doing his secretary on his desk.

As we Democrats try to be fair, Hillbilly Republican Logic is destroying Public Health, Public Education and Public Transportation.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 03:37:40 pm
All Republicans are representative of the fact that they want to take credit for a high tax socialist program from the post World War Two era when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government were overwhelmingly Democrat.

Yet Republicans won't acknowledge that Roosevelt's policies moved America (and the world) far beyond her post World War ONE status.All Republicans are representative of the fact that this is a lie to our children who desperately need a good education in history to remember May 17, 1954 and July 2, 1964. All Republicans are complicit in the lie that Roosevelt was a failure as they claim credit for a socialist policy.

In this conversation Roosevelt was denied before the GI Bill was mentioned.

Admit to the greatest leader of the 20th century and I will let you have credit for the greatest socialist program of the 20th century that took place when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government were overwhelmingly Democrat.

But then what does one expect from Hillbilly Republican Logic.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:25:49 pm
Public Health
Public Education
Public Transportation
Public Trash Collection

The truth of the matter is that immediately after May 17, 1954 the very word "Public" was re-defined. It is when we went from the "School-House" to the "public school". Now "Public Broadcasting" is a bad word/phrase.

Yes we are obliterating the poor and then wonder why the Middle Class sinks from the Trickle Down weights of Hillbilly Republican Logic. Falling ever short from the All Around heights of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 04:26:16 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:28:38 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  

And it stayed that way for more than a generation.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:31:32 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  

And it stayed that way for more than a generation.

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964...The history that you lie to children about.

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972

The number one force in the history of American politics.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:33:44 pm
The state of the ship?

Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps of 1956 and 1964.
Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps east of the Mississippi.
Look at the Confederacy and the Union of Mr. Lincoln's 1864.
Yes Hillbilly Republicans want to return to '64 alright.

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

The state of the ship?

All industrialized nations have socialized medicine except the one with large racial populations.

The biggest force in the history of American politics: "They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.


"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 04:41:27 pm
Tanksleyd, are you high on something?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:46:33 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  

And it stayed that way for more than a generation.

Ending with Reagan's "Welfare Queen".

BRILLIANT!!!

More Whites are on welfare but they voted for him anyway and now their hunger overflows from the trailer park because now they can't read, write and count at a 12th grade level. Now more and more of their doctors, nurses, engineers and spelling bee champions are from overseas because to this day they vote against Reagan's "Welfare Queen".

Too slow to realize with their Hillbilly Republican (Every-Man-For-Himself) Logic, that to support the least of us (in Roosevelt's wheelchair), elevates the whole of us (of Bushs and Kennedys blown from the sky).

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

To support the least of us, elevates the whole of us.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:47:16 pm
Tanksleyd, are you high on something?

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:51:18 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  

In this conversation Roosevelt was denied before the GI Bill was mentioned.

Admit to the greatest leader of the 20th century and I will let you have credit for the greatest socialist program of the 20th century that took place when the executive, legislative and judicial branches of government were overwhelmingly Democrat.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:59:10 pm
Tanksleyd, are you high on something?

Yes we are obliterating the poor and then wonder why the Middle Class sinks from the Trickle Down weights of Hillbilly Republican Logic. Falling ever short from the All Around HEIGHTS of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 04:59:55 pm
In 1944 the 78th Congress had 57 Democrat and 38 Republican Senators, 222 Democrat and 209 Republican Representatives.  

You were saying....
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 20, 2012, 10:45:52 pm
Tanksleyd ... I was saying there was a broad consensus of Republicans and Democrats in 1944 who supported the G.I. Bill, and rightly so, with Republicans playing a very very important role in originating the legislation. I remember when Reagan cut benefits to G.I.'s and at the time I thought that was wrong, as I have consistently favored giving our veterans, and particularly war veterans, the benefits that they earned as well as the gratitude they deserve. To my mind, this relates to one of the primary legitimate functions of our Federal Government, to provide for the common defense, and that includes treating with decency and respect those who have put their lives on the line for all of us and our children and their children, in defending us.

Can I acknowledge to you that FDR was America’s greatest President?  Well, ask the Japanese-American citizen who on the President’s executive order was pulled out of his home and into a detention camp in some desert sh*t hole for the duration of the war, who had to sell his home for pennies on the dollar, who lost his business and most of his savings, who lost everything. While he looked on at his fellow citizens, white Italian-Americans and German-Americans, living their lives unhindered. Ask the Jewish woman being pushed into the gas chamber who had been transported on train tracks that could have been readily bombed, but was not because killing Jews was viewed by FDR as a good diversion of German military resources that otherwise might be used against the Allies. Ask the Eastern European who was enslaved by Communism for decades because of the deals struck near the end of the war by FDR and Uncle Joe Stalin. Together with Stalin's spies in our government. Do I think FDR was America’s greatest President? Hell no.  

There is more to the measure of a President than the domestic programs he was willing to authorize (particularly given that some of his polices may have actually lengthened the Great Depression).

I don’t wish to judge Roosevelt too harshly. He was living in difficult times and faced major challenges. He greatly inspired the nation. He led us to victory. But I refuse to place the man on a pedestal.

As to the other partisan political bullcrap … enjoy. Eat up.  :P

Sincerely,

(http://www.gmodules.com/gadgets/proxy?refresh=86400&url=http://nuzs.com/hick.jpg&container=ig)
    
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 11:21:53 pm
Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964...The history that you lie to children about.

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972

The number one force in the history of American politics.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 11:38:37 pm
Tanksleyd ... I was saying there was a broad consensus of Republicans and Democrats in 1944 who supported the G.I. Bill, and rightly so, with Republicans playing a very very important role in originating the legislation. I remember when Reagan cut benefits to G.I.'s and at the time I thought that was wrong, as I have consistently favored giving our veterans, and particularly war veterans, the benefits that they earned as well as the gratitude they deserve. To my mind, this relates to one of the primary legitimate functions of our Federal Government, to provide for the common defense, and that includes treating with decency and respect those who have put their lives on the line for all of us and our children and their children, in defending us.

Can I acknowledge to you that FDR was America’s greatest President?  Well, ask the Japanese-American citizen who on the President’s executive order was pulled out of his home and into a detention camp in some desert sh*t hole for the duration of the war, who had to sell his home for pennies on the dollar, who lost his business and most of his savings, who lost everything. While he looked on at his fellow citizens, white Italian-Americans and German-Americans, living their lives unhindered. Ask the Jewish woman being pushed into the gas chamber who had been transported on a train line that could have been readily bombed, but was not because killing Jews was a viewed by FDR as a good diversion of German military resources that otherwise might be used against the Allies. Ask the Eastern European who was enslaved by Communism for decades because of the deals struck near the end of the war by FDR and Uncle Joe Stalin. Together with Stalin's spies in our government. Do I think FDR was America’s greatest President? Hell no.  

There is more to the measure of a President than the domestic programs he was willing to authorize (particular given that some of his polices may have actually lengthened the Great Depression).

I don’t wish to judge Roosevelt too harshly. He was living in difficult times and faced major challenges. He greatly inspired the nation. He led us to victory. But I refuse to place the man on a pedestal.

As to the other partisan political bullcrap … enjoy. Eat up.  :P

Sincerely,

([url]http://www.gmodules.com/gadgets/proxy?refresh=86400&url=http://nuzs.com/hick.jpg&container=ig[/url])
    


Why do you lie to children?

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964...The history that you lie to children about.

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Battle on June 20, 2012, 11:51:15 pm
This is why the TV show "Dallas" (a show I've never watched a day in my life), a show to signal a new begining to an era when reagan was elected, has returned to network television today.



What next...  Dukes of Hazzard County?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 20, 2012, 11:56:07 pm
Tanksleyd, are you high on something?


Yes we are obliterating the poor and then wonder why the Middle Class sinks from the Trickle Down weights of Hillbilly Republican Logic.

(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/pressclips/bush-barney-truck399-thumb.jpg)

Falling ever so short of the All Around HEIGHTS of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 12:05:34 am
(http://cdn3.standard.net/sites/default/files/imagecache/max_800/2012/06/20/story-romney-bain-capital-money-shot-140359.jpg)

Falling ever so short of the All Around heights of Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
As we obliterate the poor, the Middle Class sinks under the Trickle Down weights of Hillbilly Republican Logic.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-YDcE8nhYVVU/TvozztAUD8I/AAAAAAAAAGI/D8MVwgZfEZs/s1600/keep-your-government-hands-off-my-medicare.jpg)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 12:37:26 am
Reagan, the epitome of Hillbilly Republican Logic:

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/conspiracy/story/government-lies/business-wars/ronald-reagan.jpg)

http://just-off-the-cuff.blogspot.com/2007/08/regan-cuts-gi-billbush-opposes-full-gi.html

Success has many fathers but Reagan cut the GI Bill at his first opportunity.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 12:54:42 am
PS: I am a veteran and recall the letter I got in the 1980's saying that my lifetime GI Bill education benefits were being cut.

(http://i.cdn.turner.com/trutv/trutv.com/graphics/conspiracy/story/government-lies/business-wars/ronald-reagan.jpg)

The fiscal conservative who gave America record setting deficits and debt
aka: Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Kinda like Bush giving us Trickle Down oil from Iraq.

(http://blogs.villagevoice.com/pressclips/bush-barney-truck399-thumb.jpg)

Or Romney pretending to care:

(http://rlv.zcache.com/dress_up_romney_cowboy_png_posters-r2f9ae49f4ed0478cafb455848cec5380_wvk_210.jpg?bg=0xFFFFFF)

Returning America to the Wild, wild west John Wayne mentality of Every-Man-For-Himself.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 01:06:36 am
(http://bustednuckles.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/romney-bain-capital-money-shot.jpg?w=450)

Government = Business (?) November 6, 2012: You decide.

(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EJgDIBKo9dM/0.jpg)
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 01:58:53 am

(http://www.nieman.harvard.edu/assets/Image/Nieman%20Reports/Images%20by%20Issue/fall1998/fiore-2.jpg)

Roosevelt understood that to support the least of us,

(http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/28/katrinacry7ft.jpg)

...elevates the whole of us.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 21, 2012, 08:13:07 am
Tanksleyd ... I was saying there was a broad consensus of Republicans and Democrats in 1944 who supported the G.I. Bill, and rightly so, with Republicans playing a very very important role in originating the legislation. I remember when Reagan cut benefits to G.I.'s and at the time I thought that was wrong, as I have consistently favored giving our veterans, and particularly war veterans, the benefits that they earned as well as the gratitude they deserve. To my mind, this relates to one of the primary legitimate functions of our Federal Government, to provide for the common defense, and that includes treating with decency and respect those who have put their lives on the line for all of us and our children and their children, in defending us.

Can I acknowledge to you that FDR was America’s greatest President?  Well, ask the Japanese-American citizen who on the President’s executive order was pulled out of his home and into a detention camp in some desert sh*t hole for the duration of the war, who had to sell his home for pennies on the dollar, who lost his business and most of his savings, who lost everything. While he looked on at his fellow citizens, white Italian-Americans and German-Americans, living their lives unhindered. Ask the Jewish woman being pushed into the gas chamber who had been transported on a train line that could have been readily bombed, but was not because killing Jews was a viewed by FDR as a good diversion of German military resources that otherwise might be used against the Allies. Ask the Eastern European who was enslaved by Communism for decades because of the deals struck near the end of the war by FDR and Uncle Joe Stalin. Together with Stalin's spies in our government. Do I think FDR was America’s greatest President? Hell no.  

There is more to the measure of a President than the domestic programs he was willing to authorize (particular given that some of his polices may have actually lengthened the Great Depression).

I don’t wish to judge Roosevelt too harshly. He was living in difficult times and faced major challenges. He greatly inspired the nation. He led us to victory. But I refuse to place the man on a pedestal.

As to the other partisan political bullcrap … enjoy. Eat up.  :P

Sincerely
    

Why do you lie to the children?

In truth, I have been scrupulously honest and have simply urged the same from all. If you, Reginald, and others condone Roosevelt's acts, described above, you are welcome to your opinion.

The GI Bill, by strongly encouraging higher education, was wholly consistent with the work ethic embraced by most of the GIs who upon their return were interested in improving themselves and providing for their wives and children (then existing or planned). Their focus was on self-improvement, many being the first to go to college in their families. They stood out at the colleges and universities as incredibly hard working, disciplined, and serious. Because of their ethos, the use of the education benefit far exceeded expectations, while their taking the unemployment component was far below projections.   

Indeed, the work programs adopted before the war also demanded hard work, in some cases grueling work.

I don't believe these programs undermined the work ethic or the family.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 08:17:43 am
Still when stripped of the Reagan facade you can only point to pre-1865 as an ideal time for America.

Why can't you admit the obvious?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 08:20:41 am
Tanksleyd ... I was saying there was a broad consensus of Republicans and Democrats in 1944 who supported the G.I. Bill, and rightly so, with Republicans playing a very very important role in originating the legislation. I remember when Reagan cut benefits to G.I.'s and at the time I thought that was wrong, as I have consistently favored giving our veterans, and particularly war veterans, the benefits that they earned as well as the gratitude they deserve. To my mind, this relates to one of the primary legitimate functions of our Federal Government, to provide for the common defense, and that includes treating with decency and respect those who have put their lives on the line for all of us and our children and their children, in defending us.

Can I acknowledge to you that FDR was America’s greatest President?  Well, ask the Japanese-American citizen who on the President’s executive order was pulled out of his home and into a detention camp in some desert sh*t hole for the duration of the war, who had to sell his home for pennies on the dollar, who lost his business and most of his savings, who lost everything. While he looked on at his fellow citizens, white Italian-Americans and German-Americans, living their lives unhindered. Ask the Jewish woman being pushed into the gas chamber who had been transported on a train line that could have been readily bombed, but was not because killing Jews was a viewed by FDR as a good diversion of German military resources that otherwise might be used against the Allies. Ask the Eastern European who was enslaved by Communism for decades because of the deals struck near the end of the war by FDR and Uncle Joe Stalin. Together with Stalin's spies in our government. Do I think FDR was America’s greatest President? Hell no.  

There is more to the measure of a President than the domestic programs he was willing to authorize (particular given that some of his polices may have actually lengthened the Great Depression).

I don’t wish to judge Roosevelt too harshly. He was living in difficult times and faced major challenges. He greatly inspired the nation. He led us to victory. But I refuse to place the man on a pedestal.

As to the other partisan political bullcrap … enjoy. Eat up.  :P

Sincerely
    

Why do you lie to the children?

In truth, I have been scrupulously honest and have simply urged the same from all. If you, Reginald, and others condone Roosevelt's acts, described above, you are welcome to your opinion.

The GI Bill, by strongly encouraging higher education, was wholly consistent with the work ethic embraced by most of the GIs who upon their return were interested in improving themselves and providing for their wives and children (then existing or planned). Their focus was on self-improvement, many being the first to go to college in their families. They stood out at the colleges and universities as incredibly hard working, disciplined, and serious. Because of their ethos, the use of the education benefit far exceeded expectations, while their taking the unemployment component was far below projections.   

Indeed, the work programs adopted before the war also demanded hard work, in some cases grueling work.

I don't believe these programs undermined the work ethic or the family.

A Republican claiming credit for a high tax socialist program that Reagan cut at his first opportunity feigning innocence.....

Is it just me....or is Hillbilly Republican Logic ruining America?
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 21, 2012, 08:21:02 am
Still when stripped of the Reagan facade you can only point to pre-1865 as an ideal time for America.

Why can't you admit the obvious?

Cut the bullsh*t, please.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 08:23:07 am
Your honor, Exhibit A:

Still when stripped of the Reagan facade you can only point to pre-1865 as an ideal time for America.

Why can't you admit the obvious?

Cut the bullsh*t, please.

Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 08:25:07 am
Still when stripped of the Reagan facade you can only point to pre-1865 as an ideal time for America.

Why can't you admit the obvious?

The state of the ship?

Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps of 1956 and 1964.
Look at the Blue-State/Red-State maps east of the Mississippi.
Look at the Confederacy and the Union of Mr. Lincoln's 1864.
Yes Hillbilly Republicans want to return to '64 alright.

Rural America LOVED socialist FDR Democrats until July 2, 1964.

The state of the ship?

All industrialized nations have socialized medicine except the one with large racial populations.

The biggest force in the history of American politics: "They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: michaelintp on June 21, 2012, 08:27:53 am
Your honor, Exhibit A:

Still when stripped of the Reagan facade you can only point to pre-1865 as an ideal time for America.

Why can't you admit the obvious?

Cut the bullsh*t, please.



OK, enjoy another 10 repetitive posts battling your imaginary strawman. If you are only capable of seeing people in the fabricated boxes of your own prejudiced construction, then that's that.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Tanksleyd on June 21, 2012, 09:57:26 am
Roosevelt understood that to support the least of us...elevates the whole of us.

"They will never admit it"...Alistair Cooke, 1972.
Title: Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
Post by: Battle on July 04, 2012, 04:21:28 pm
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w184/Battle-D/HEFdecofindy_01.jpg)