Hudlin Entertainment Forum

General Category => Hard Choices => Topic started by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 11:45:36 am

Title: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 11:45:36 am
Marvin Gaye or R Kelly?

Who wins?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Marvelous on June 12, 2012, 12:12:21 pm
A calab would be win.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Hypestyle on June 12, 2012, 12:29:03 pm
marvin marvin marvin marvin..

"What's goin' on" was obviously a landmark in production values and lyrical themes..  To me, Kells has yet to deliver something like that.. (though he's talented enough.. is that latest, 'retro' album of his worth picking up?)

obviously, Kells is heavily influenced by Gaye, Smokey/Motown, etc.
As he gets older-- and his audience gets older-- we'll see if he goes into less sensationalized territory like the "trapped in the closet" stuff..
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 12:41:08 pm
marvin marvin marvin marvin..

"What's goin' on" was obviously a landmark in production values and lyrical themes..  To me, Kells has yet to deliver something like that.. (though he's talented enough.. is that latest, 'retro' album of his worth picking up?)

obviously, Kells is heavily influenced by Gaye, Smokey/Motown, etc.
As he gets older-- and his audience gets older-- we'll see if he goes into less sensationalized territory like the "trapped in the closet" stuff..

What about the catalog of Kelly VS Marvin?

If you look at the production and writing outside of his own music Kelly is very prolific and highly successful.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Lion on June 12, 2012, 01:49:32 pm
Marvin by a landslide.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 12, 2012, 04:48:00 pm
Kells is the greatest RnB act of his era.

Marvin is the greatest of all time.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Hypestyle on June 12, 2012, 05:35:29 pm
marvin marvin marvin marvin..

"What's goin' on" was obviously a landmark in production values and lyrical themes..  To me, Kells has yet to deliver something like that.. (though he's talented enough.. is that latest, 'retro' album of his worth picking up?)

obviously, Kells is heavily influenced by Gaye, Smokey/Motown, etc.
As he gets older-- and his audience gets older-- we'll see if he goes into less sensationalized territory like the "trapped in the closet" stuff..

What about the catalog of Kelly VS Marvin?

If you look at the production and writing outside of his own music Kelly is very prolific and highly successful.

hmm... true inded.. back when michael jackson was alive I wondered if kelly would write/produce a whole album for him..
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 07:16:59 pm
Kells is the greatest RnB act of his era.

Marvin is the greatest of all time.

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???

I love Marvin. You love Marvin. Everybody loves Marvin but the G.O.A.T in R&B.

NO WAY. NO HOW!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 07:26:31 pm
1) Stevie Wonder- There were a lot of acts that have claims to different genres. James Brown is the Godfather of funk and soul. Michael is the King of pop with Prince as the usurper. For unadulterated R&B, Steveland is the GOAT.

2) Smokey Robinson- The architect of 20th century R&B and one of the greatest singer/songwriters of all time. Pure uncut R&B.

3)R Kelly- Ultimate Marvin Gaye! The vision, angst, conflict, and lust of Gaye with superior songwriting and producing skills. The sacred and the profane have never flowed so seemlessly from one person in the history of music.

Feel free to place Marvin BELOW any of these gusy. 8)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Hypestyle on June 12, 2012, 07:30:31 pm
If Marvin had lived, it would have been great to see some collaborative albums with him like Kelly did for Ron Isley..
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 12, 2012, 07:33:31 pm
You know; I might as well provoke as much hate as possible!

I'M NOT SCARED!

4) Curtis Mayfield- A lyrical visionary that could craft a story out of any scenario. As attractive as Ron O'Neal made SUPERFLY it was Mayfield that provided the cautionary tales with each classic song of the soundtrack. Another great practitioner of the sacred and profane, PEOPLE GET READY to LETS DO IT AGAIN.

After the game I may have to put Marvin out of the top 10!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on June 13, 2012, 11:41:45 am
3)R Kelly- Ultimate Marvin Gaye! The vision, angst, conflict, and lust of Gaye with superior songwriting and producing skills. The sacred and the profane have never flowed so seemlessly from one person in the history of music.

Did you bump your head?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Lion on June 13, 2012, 12:07:21 pm
Contest is over for this reason alone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f39Zs0gB87c
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 13, 2012, 02:09:15 pm
3)R Kelly- Ultimate Marvin Gaye! The vision, angst, conflict, and lust of Gaye with superior songwriting and producing skills. The sacred and the profane have never flowed so seemlessly from one person in the history of music.

Did you bump your head?

No, I didn't but there is so much knowledge and insight flowing from my mind I could've bumped into that.

R Kelly is a self-contained hit-making unit. Marvin's greatest hits all involve other creators whether collaboratively or entirely from someone else's work.

Show me the catalog for Marvin and his musical offspring.

When you come at the King you best not miss! 8)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 13, 2012, 08:19:45 pm
Okay, when I said Marvin was the GOAT, I knew that was rash and I was typing too fast without thinking it through.

But your counter is kinda making my case.

the only person you mentioned who could take the title with ease is Stevie Wonder. When you compare Stevie's "golden period" (MUSIC OF MY MIND, TALKING BOOK, INNERVISIONS, FULFILLINGNESS' FIRST FINALE, SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE, the flawed but interesting SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS, and the return to form HOTTER THAN JULY) to Marvin's "golden period" (WHAT'S GOING ON, LET'S GET IT ON, I WANT YOU, the TROUBLE MAN soundtrack, the flawed but interesting HERE MY DEAR), Stevie's got more masterpieces under his belt.

Now that list doesn't count all their respective hits working in the Motown hit machine before they broke off and became creative auteurs.

R. Kelly's HAPPY PEOPLE album is great top to bottom, but it's him mimicking Marvin shamelessly.  Are there some other masterpieces that he's made that I am not considering?  

Curtis Mayfield is magnificent, with the SUPERFLY soundtrack, the SPARKLE soundtrack and the CLAUDINE soundtrack just to name a few great albums, but track for track his solo albums aren't as strong as Stevie's or Marvin's.  

Smokey is the most underrated guy on your list, props for bringing him up, The TEARS OF A CLOWN album is a masterpiece, the QUIET STORM album is also perfect and launched a whole radio format, and his early works with the Temptations launched the great male vocal group of all time.  

Your R. Kelly "argument" (as if a case could be made) is that he makes hits.  Well, Stevie, Marvin, Smokey and Curtis have made more hits then R. Kelly.  And Stevie, Marvin and Curtis inspired countless musicians and had huge cultural impact.  R. Kelly doesn't have a WHAT'S GOING ON or SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE in his body of work.  

As a musician, do you want to put R. Kelly's piano playing skills up against Marvin's?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Marvelous on June 13, 2012, 10:45:12 pm
Al Green is definitely on my top 10.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Vic Vega on June 14, 2012, 08:28:03 am
O.K. Stevie Wonder's sheer body of classic work out paces Marvin Gaye.

But after Stevie?

Its Marvin Gaye and it isn't even close.

Al Green abdicated from R&B in '74. Teddy peaked relatively early in his career.

Only Marvie and Stevie did the singer songwriter gig at the highest level. So did Prince but he is kinda of a hybrid.

As for R. Kelly, has he ever produced a truly great album? On the level of What's Going On, Songs in the Key of Life (or even Musiquarium for that matter) or Purple Rain? 

I can't think of any.

Kelly had to copy classic lovermen musicians to revive his career with Love Letter.

To me Kelly is the most wildly sucessful of the second tier of R&B musicans such as Alexander O'Neil, Pebo Bryson, Levert, Col Abrams and them.

He isn't not on the Stevie/Marvin/Smokey level.

At all.

 
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 14, 2012, 12:51:11 pm
O.K. Stevie Wonder's sheer body of classic work out paces Marvin Gaye.

But after Stevie?

Its Marvin Gaye and it isn't even close.

Al Green abdicated from R&B in '74. Teddy peaked relatively early in his career.

Only Marvie and Stevie did the singer songwriter gig at the highest level. So did Prince but he is kinda of a hybrid.

As for R. Kelly, has he ever produced a truly great album? On the level of What's Going On, Songs in the Key of Life (or even Musiquarium for that matter) or Purple Rain? 

I can't think of any.

Kelly had to copy classic lovermen musicians to revive his career with Love Letter.

To me Kelly is the most wildly sucessful of the second tier of R&B musicans such as Alexander O'Neil, Pebo Bryson, Levert, Col Abrams and them.

He isn't not on the Stevie/Marvin/Smokey level.

At all.

 

You left out( I would say conveniently but I'll give you a pass!) SMOKEY ROBINSON and CURTIS MAYFIELD. Those 2 men don't surpass Marvin?

You have weakened your argument by comparing Kelly to Col Abrams.

Really? Col Abrams? 8)

Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 14, 2012, 01:03:27 pm
Okay, when I said Marvin was the GOAT, I knew that was rash and I was typing too fast without thinking it through.

But your counter is kinda making my case.

the only person you mentioned who could take the title with ease is Stevie Wonder. When you compare Stevie's "golden period" (MUSIC OF MY MIND, TALKING BOOK, INNERVISIONS, FULFILLINGNESS' FIRST FINALE, SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE, the flawed but interesting SECRET LIFE OF PLANTS, and the return to form HOTTER THAN JULY) to Marvin's "golden period" (WHAT'S GOING ON, LET'S GET IT ON, I WANT YOU, the TROUBLE MAN soundtrack, the flawed but interesting HERE MY DEAR), Stevie's got more masterpieces under his belt.

Now that list doesn't count all their respective hits working in the Motown hit machine before they broke off and became creative auteurs.

R. Kelly's HAPPY PEOPLE album is great top to bottom, but it's him mimicking Marvin shamelessly.  Are there some other masterpieces that he's made that I am not considering?  

Curtis Mayfield is magnificent, with the SUPERFLY soundtrack, the SPARKLE soundtrack and the CLAUDINE soundtrack just to name a few great albums, but track for track his solo albums aren't as strong as Stevie's or Marvin's.  

Smokey is the most underrated guy on your list, props for bringing him up, The TEARS OF A CLOWN album is a masterpiece, the QUIET STORM album is also perfect and launched a whole radio format, and his early works with the Temptations launched the great male vocal group of all time.  

Your R. Kelly "argument" (as if a case could be made) is that he makes hits.  Well, Stevie, Marvin, Smokey and Curtis have made more hits then R. Kelly.  And Stevie, Marvin and Curtis inspired countless musicians and had huge cultural impact.  R. Kelly doesn't have a WHAT'S GOING ON or SONGS IN THE KEY OF LIFE in his body of work.  

As a musician, do you want to put R. Kelly's piano playing skills up against Marvin's?

I think Marvin is getting a lot of credit for writing and producing that he may not have done here( Hey, I see that knife!) I will go back and check to see what he actually did on those classic albums. It was either AMERICAN MASTERS or another documentary that chronicled those albums and many times I saw Marvin saying he went to writers with concepts and they came back with a template or actual songs.

Smokey Robinson- Smokey has Marvin hands down. He set the template for the R&B style that dominates to this day and then re-imagined it in the 70's which is the standard for adult contemporary. Marvin followed and benefitted from both.

Curtis Mayfield- I hereby accept the hit for hit challenge on Mayfield's behalf with the caveat that the songs are limited to ones produced SOLELY by either man. At the very least each had to do more than vocals. Mayfield has it by a mile!.

R Kelly- Hits is too limited of a concept here. Kelly can make a song for any genre and produce albums worth of great material. Marvin never did that. I can take Kelly's songs to a church, club, conference or corner and he will have everything covered. As I said before, the sacred and profane is done best by this guy.

I'm not unreasonable so I will admit Marvin has the piano title over Kelly.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 14, 2012, 09:31:52 pm
I love how you somehow discount Marvin's writing and producing skills, but accept that R. Kelly is some kind of Prince/Stevie level of one man band genius. 

I don't hate on collaboration, whether it's R. Kelly, Marvin, Lauryn Hill or whoever.  No man is really a musical island.

Everyone keeps asking you to list Kellz perfect albums, his masterpieces, and you keep not doing it.  Given how much you love the man, you can't be scared to compare 12 PLAY to WHAT'S GOING ON. 

Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Lion on June 15, 2012, 08:38:39 am
Mercy Mercy Me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9BA6fFGMjI

R Who?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on June 15, 2012, 09:26:41 am
You left out( I would say conveniently but I'll give you a pass!) SMOKEY ROBINSON and CURTIS MAYFIELD. Those 2 men don't surpass Marvin?

No, they don't. Not as R&B artists by which I mean singers/songwriters/creators of art. No extra credit for doing it "solo". (As Reg pointed out, that's not how it works.) These masters are clearly the primary creative force of their music and just as clearly had help.

As songwriters and producers of their own music and others', both Smokey and Curtis surpass Marvin in my view. Of course, Smokey may be the best American songwriter ever. But that's another discussion.

As a performer though, Marvin houses them both. And just about everybody else for that matter.

So I suppose it does depend on what you value. Smokey vs. Curtis vs. Marvin is a good discussion and reasonable folks could differ. For me though, that's clear win for Marvin.

Marvin vs. Stevie is the real championship match. First off, let's just acknowledge that nobody in any genre can really f*ck with Stevie's golden period. I doubt we'll ever see as magnificent a creative period as that supernova. That said, lyrically I think I prefer Marvin. Stevie writes romance great. Marvin did that and brought the heat on top of it. Back in the day, if you were trying to get busy, did you reach for Innervisions or Let's Get It On? That's what I thought...

And let's not even talk about political / social songwriting -- What's Going On is Mt. Everest.

That said, if I had to give up one of the box sets, I guess I'd hold on to Stevie.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on June 15, 2012, 09:38:06 am
Back in the day, if you were trying to get busy, did you reach for Innervisions or Let's Get It On? That's what I thought...




Did anyone ever see that scene in "Something's Gotta Give" where Jack Nicholson's character suffers a heart attack trying to woo a young woman while her mother is in the other room, and 'Let's Get It On' is playing in the stereo?
(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 15, 2012, 11:49:56 am
I love how you somehow discount Marvin's writing and producing skills, but accept that R. Kelly is some kind of Prince/Stevie level of one man band genius. 

I don't hate on collaboration, whether it's R. Kelly, Marvin, Lauryn Hill or whoever.  No man is really a musical island.

Everyone keeps asking you to list Kellz perfect albums, his masterpieces, and you keep not doing it.  Given how much you love the man, you can't be scared to compare 12 PLAY to WHAT'S GOING ON. 



Hold on there!

If you are going to legitimately compare artists you have to view their ability on a solo level. I don't get how that is illegitimate unless you're scared that Marvin can't hold up to that scrutiny. 8)

Lets get this out of the way.

R KELLLY HAS NEVER PRODUCED A SINGLE PROJECT TO MATCH OR SURPASS WHAT'S GOIN ON!

HOWEVER, over the breadth of his career he has produced more than enough material SOLELY to surpass Marvin Gaye.

HAPPY PEOPLE- Perfect album that beats HERE MY DEAR.

12 PLAY- One of the best debuts ever and easily stands up to I WANT YOU.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 15, 2012, 11:54:16 am
You left out( I would say conveniently but I'll give you a pass!) SMOKEY ROBINSON and CURTIS MAYFIELD. Those 2 men don't surpass Marvin?

No, they don't. Not as R&B artists by which I mean singers/songwriters/creators of art. No extra credit for doing it "solo". (As Reg pointed out, that's not how it works.) These masters are clearly the primary creative force of their music and just as clearly had help.

As songwriters and producers of their own music and others', both Smokey and Curtis surpass Marvin in my view. Of course, Smokey may be the best American songwriter ever. But that's another discussion.

As a performer though, Marvin houses them both. And just about everybody else for that matter.

So I suppose it does depend on what you value. Smokey vs. Curtis vs. Marvin is a good discussion and reasonable folks could differ. For me though, that's clear win for Marvin.

Marvin vs. Stevie is the real championship match. First off, let's just acknowledge that nobody in any genre can really f*ck with Stevie's golden period. I doubt we'll ever see as magnificent a creative period as that supernova. That said, lyrically I think I prefer Marvin. Stevie writes romance great. Marvin did that and brought the heat on top of it. Back in the day, if you were trying to get busy, did you reach for Innervisions or Let's Get It On? That's what I thought...

And let's not even talk about political / social songwriting -- What's Going On is Mt. Everest.

That said, if I had to give up one of the box sets, I guess I'd hold on to Stevie.

Solo ability seperates the greats from the immortals. I think it is a clear distinction.

Stevie Wonder VS Prince is a discussion. Stevie Wonder VS Marvin is a slaughter in Stevie's favor. Respectfully, I can't see how Marvin can touch Stevie's level of genius.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on June 15, 2012, 12:49:38 pm
...or the Reese's Chocolate Peanut Butter Egg commercial featuring Marvin Gaye's 'Let's Get It On'?

(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)(http://s4.tinypic.com/11t20w0.jpg)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 16, 2012, 05:15:55 am
Curtis' box set question is a good one.  

Practically speaking, I play more Marvin on a regular basis than Stevie, although I play Stevie a lot.  But as I said earlier, I give Stevie credit for more masterpiece albums.  But Marvin's music repeats better.

"Solo" keeps getting mention, and I don't know how you are defining it, but I addressed that issue in an earlier post.

As for the works of R. Kelly, glad you're getting specific.  You put HAPPY PEOPLE up against one of the weakest of Marvin's albums, HERE MY DEAR, since it can't hang against WHAT'S GOING ON, LET'S GET IT ON, I WANT YOU or even the TROUBLE MAN soundtrack.  

12 PLAY against I WANT YOU?  NO.  Kellz does not win.  Maybe from your generational perspective he does, but you will never convince anyone of the Marvin era of that one.

R. Kellz has hits.  IGNITION was a great enough record that it kept him out of jail.  But Marvin's had more hits.  He's got a gang of songs at that level we haven't even brought into the discussion, from his duets with Tammi Terrell to GOT TO GIVE IT UP.  Hit for hit, R. Kelly can't keep up.  

Cultural impact?  Marvin.  The whole world knows the man and his music.  He's got love songs, party jams and social uplift.      

Like Luther Vandross, R. Kelly never crossed over to a mainstream audience.  Doesn't diminish their art, but Marvin did without artistic compromise.  Just another feather in Marvin's cap.

I think Stevie vs. Prince was an earlier Hard Choice.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Princesa on June 16, 2012, 01:38:23 pm
Marvin easily not just because I hate R Kelly but because I don't like his music. At all.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on June 16, 2012, 05:46:20 pm
I was describing this online debate with the Dean of American music criticism, Nelson George, and the first thing he said was "R. Kelly wouldn't put himself ahead of Marvin Gaye". 

Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Emperorjones on June 16, 2012, 06:49:19 pm
My heart says Marvin, though after reading some of these comments, my brain might be going toward R. Kelly.

For some of the critics, I mean, what's a 'great' album? I thought 12play was a great album, it certainly was seminal, whether you agreed with the raunchiness or not. And R. Kelly put a lot of people on, the most successful being Aaliyah, while helping revitalize Ron Isley's career. Kelly has to be considered a genius of remixing. Whenever I used to buy his singles I knew I was getting two or three songs for the price of one and they were generally all good. He's been an extremely creative and prolific artists, even if perhaps too many of his efforts have been making sex jams.

There is nothing second tier about R. Kelly. Despite his personal issues, on a creative level-and despite the content of some of his work-he is the King of R&B. I don't think Kelly should put himself ahead/above Marvin because so much of who he is came from Marvin Gaye, the Isleys, etc.  And that's not really his role anyway. That's for us fans to debate and decide anyway.

About Luther, he did crossover to some extent, with "Here and Now" and some of his 90s albums. And R. Kelly crossover was "I Believe I Can Fly". His next album had that duet with Celine Dion, and then he did the song for the Olympics. But his legal troubles squelched whatever ideas he might have had regarding more crossovers.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 17, 2012, 12:04:14 am
I was describing this online debate with the Dean of American music criticism, Nelson George, and the first thing he said was "R. Kelly wouldn't put himself ahead of Marvin Gaye". 



I am sure if Nelson George reads my arguments he will agree with not only R. Kelly surpassing Marvin but my rankings overall.

In your heart Nelson you know I'm right!

As far as this comment " R. Kelly wouldn't put himself ahead of Marvin Gaye" who would?

The only artist I can think of who is both bold and talented enough to make such a statement is Prince. I remember him saying in the 80's, " You could get Cosby or any other entertainer in the world and I'll blow them off the stage". I'm trying to remember if he made a similar comment including Michael.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 17, 2012, 12:19:37 am
Marvin easily not just because I hate R Kelly but because I don't like his music. At all.

You're obviously still reeling from the Pacquiao loss.

I forgive you and remember time heals all wounds.

Perhaps an R Kelly retrospective can brighten your mood?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on June 17, 2012, 12:21:31 am
Marvin easily not just because I hate R Kelly but because I don't like his music. At all.


You're obviously still reeling from the Pacquiao loss.

I forgive you and remember time heals all wounds.

Perhaps an R Kelly retrospective can brighten your mood?




(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t56/Gilgameesh/smiley/rofl.gif)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 18, 2012, 12:52:20 pm
I have come up with a clear cut plan to prove that I'm right.

It is officially barbecue season and this provides me with a steady sample of people to choose from. I will casually slip into some backyards, parks, etc. and set my plan into motion. I will seek out the 20-30 yr olds and bring up Kelly and how great he is. When they are properly charged up I will say that he is better than Marvin. Next, I will get the 40 and up crowd to start talking about Marvin and tell them those 20-30yr olds over there are saying Marvin can't see Kelly!

As the parties start to clash I will sit back and help myself to the chicken!

Barber shops debates. Good.

BARBECUE debates. Priceless!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: JRCarter on June 18, 2012, 02:34:19 pm
I have come up with a clear cut plan to prove that I'm right.

It is officially barbecue season and this provides me with a steady sample of people to choose from. I will casually slip into some backyards, parks, etc. and set my plan into motion. I will seek out the 20-30 yr olds and bring up Kelly and how great he is. When they are properly charged up I will say that he is better than Marvin. Next, I will get the 40 and up crowd to start talking about Marvin and tell them those 20-30yr olds over there are saying Marvin can't see Kelly!

As the parties start to clash I will sit back and help myself to the chicken!

Barber shops debates. Good.

BARBECUE debates. Priceless!

That's a surefire way to cause bloodshed.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Lion on June 20, 2012, 02:58:24 pm
Jefferson, if there were any doubt you were evil for starting this bogus thread, you have just removed it once you revealed your TRUE nefarious motive... CHICKEN!

Well done!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 20, 2012, 07:54:32 pm
Jefferson, if there were any doubt you were evil for starting this bogus thread, you have just removed it once you revealed your TRUE nefarious motive... CHICKEN!

Well done!

Excuse me sir, it is not just Chicken.

It is well seasoned, expertly barbecued chicken. And being in Brooklyn that means I have the added bonus of JERK chicken being in the vicinity as Marvin and Kellz fans attack each other for their R&B hero! 8)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Princesa on June 22, 2012, 06:52:04 am
Marvin Gaye is a banquet and R Kelly is chillicheese fries.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 22, 2012, 07:05:02 pm
Marvin Gaye is a banquet and R Kelly is chillicheese fries.

Take a deep breath, inhale.

HOLD!

Breathe out slowly.

Repeat a few times and the visions of Pacquiao losing will melt away.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on June 22, 2012, 07:10:07 pm
Marvin Gaye is a banquet and R Kelly is chillicheese fries.

Take a deep breath, inhale.

HOLD!

Breathe out slowly.

Repeat a few times and the visions of Pacquiao losing will melt away.




A lot o' folks seem to be pissed off about this, even Senator Harry Reid has expressed discontent publicly. :-\
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Princesa on June 23, 2012, 05:45:15 am
Paciquio was robbed. All people who love America knows that  8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Marvelous on June 23, 2012, 04:04:59 pm
Ya'll can flame me all ya want...Otis Redding whoops all they asses!    :-X
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on June 23, 2012, 07:48:56 pm
Ya'll can flame me all ya want...Otis Redding whoops all they asses!    :-X

Otis is a legend but he doesn't surpass either Marvin or Kelly.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Marvelous on June 24, 2012, 12:03:36 am
Ya'll can flame me all ya want...Otis Redding whoops all they asses!    :-X

Otis is a legend but he doesn't surpass either Marvin or Kelly.

Yea its a personal preference and fave, I think he's better than both.  Would've been great to see become better than both of them if he lived passed the age of 26.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Princesa on June 27, 2012, 10:59:09 am
To me Marvin and Al Green and Smokey and Stevie are the legends and you can argue for Gil Scott and Curtis Mayfield--Kelly to me is like baby Face. Except I like Face and think he's talented.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on July 08, 2012, 09:17:39 am
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on July 09, 2012, 09:11:39 am
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?

Ah, the King of Pop. This kind of parallels the top 5 women R&B discussion. Despite his preferred moniker, is MJ a R&B legend? I say yes. Much of his material is R&B that he made popular.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on July 09, 2012, 09:06:33 pm
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?

Michael Jackson will be on the upcoming top 10 pop stars of all time.

OFF THE WALL gets MJ an honorable but no placement on the R&B countdown!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on July 10, 2012, 05:04:00 am
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?

Michael Jackson will be on the upcoming top 10 pop stars of all time.

OFF THE WALL gets MJ an honorable but no placement on the R&B countdown!
Yes, Michael was a pop star, as in embraced by the world, but that doesn't determine the quality of his music. Just listen to him sing Smokey's WHO'S LOVIN' YOU while still a child...how many adults could squees that much feeling out of a song? 

Michael's template was James Brown and did a spot on impersonation of him while only 8 years old.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on July 10, 2012, 05:33:20 am
Michael's template was James Brown and did a spot on impersonation of him while only 8 years old.





Yep!
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on July 10, 2012, 08:55:31 pm
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?

Michael Jackson will be on the upcoming top 10 pop stars of all time.

OFF THE WALL gets MJ an honorable but no placement on the R&B countdown!
Yes, Michael was a pop star, as in embraced by the world, but that doesn't determine the quality of his music. Just listen to him sing Smokey's WHO'S LOVIN' YOU while still a child...how many adults could squees that much feeling out of a song? 

Michael's template was James Brown and did a spot on impersonation of him while only 8 years old.


C'mon, Reggie you really want to argue this?

Lets see I conceded OFF THE WALL so it is everything after.

THRILLER- A great mix of pop and R&B but it leans more toward pop. 49% R&B. 51% POP

BAD- MJ jumped off the R&B ship completely.90% POP.

DANGEROUS- Teddy Riley is R&B personified so I will be generous in my breakdown. 76% POP. You can reduce it by 10% for the New Jack Swing

HISTORY- 100% POP!

INVINCIBLE- 98% POP.

This is too much pop for even you to deny.

Michael Jackson is DISQUALIFIED from placement in the R&B countdown.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on July 11, 2012, 05:20:13 am
Before I even argue the silly "stats" you apply to his adult solo career, are you really trying to ignore his work with the Jackson 5, the Jacksons and his youth solo career? You can take any one of those and crush most artists with depth and breath of output. 
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on July 11, 2012, 08:04:42 am
Let's not confuse music sales categories with music categories. Remember, Pop doesn't define a genre of music. It's short for Popular and comprises whatever is selling. There have been plenty of R&B records on the pop charts. 
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on July 11, 2012, 10:12:18 am
Before I even argue the silly "stats" you apply to his adult solo career, are you really trying to ignore his work with the Jackson 5, the Jacksons and his youth solo career? You can take any one of those and crush most artists with depth and breath of output. 

The Jackson 5, Jacksons and the 3 solo youth albums aren't really a hallmark of the essential Michael Jackson. The MJ that truly had agency in his music and later total control in terms of material is the one involved in OFF THE WALL to INVINCIBLE. Sure, Jackson was always a tremendous entertainer and singer but the ARTIST emerged from the albums I listed.

While Jackson would never deny his musical origins I seriously doubt he wanted his talent judged by his youth career over his true adult solo legacy.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on July 11, 2012, 10:34:12 am
Let's not confuse music sales categories with music categories. Remember, Pop doesn't define a genre of music. It's short for Popular and comprises whatever is selling. There have been plenty of R&B records on the pop charts. 

This is just wrong.

Every Black artist from Little Richard has been keenly aware of what "Pop" means.  To define it is pretty hard but from the perspective of Black artists and fans I believe it can be described as the following.

Pop- Music devoid of just enough Soul/Funk as to be palatable to a cross-section of White fans.

Now a clear caveat would have to be that the definition is pre-Rap as that genre changed the game completely. Rappers never conformed and actually forced the White execs and White fans to accept their music in its most raw form.

To Michael Jackson, during his youth career he was under the tutelage of a man who is nothing short of an alchemist in finding the ratio between soul/funk and pop, Berry Gordy. Gordy figured out just how much soul to extract from a Black song to make it a cross-genre hit. This practice wasn't lost on Jackson and he utilized it in his own career.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on July 11, 2012, 10:37:54 am
No one put Michael Jackson on this list?

Michael Jackson will be on the upcoming top 10 pop stars of all time.

OFF THE WALL gets MJ an honorable but no placement on the R&B countdown!


Michael's template was James Brown and did a spot on impersonation of him while only 8 years old.


I meant to refer to this earlier.

Michael's PERFORMANCE template was James Brown not his music.

Michael's career from the Jackson 5 to INVINCIBLE was devoid of pure funk and Soul.

How can someone utilize a James Brown template when its devoid of funk?
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on July 12, 2012, 11:37:36 am
Let's not confuse music sales categories with music categories. Remember, Pop doesn't define a genre of music. It's short for Popular and comprises whatever is selling. There have been plenty of R&B records on the pop charts. 


This is just wrong.

Every Black artist from Little Richard has been keenly aware of what "Pop" means.  To define it is pretty hard but from the perspective of Black artists and fans I believe it can be described as the following.

Pop- Music devoid of just enough Soul/Funk as to be palatable to a cross-section of White fans.


Well, Aretha Franklin had 41 Top 40 Pop hits including two #1s. (http://voices.yahoo.com/top-20-aretha-franklin-songs-6692674.html) Oh, and James Brown, The Godfather of Soul, he had a few too. (http://top40.about.com/od/top10lists/tp/jamesbrownhits.htm)

Calling Pop a musical genre is like calling Box Office Hits a movie genre.

To Michael Jackson, during his youth career he was under the tutelage of a man who is nothing short of an alchemist in finding the ratio between soul/funk and pop, Berry Gordy. Gordy figured out just how much soul to extract from a Black song to make it a cross-genre hit. This practice wasn't lost on Jackson and he utilized it in his own career.


It's true that he learned form Gordy. But are you seriously claiming that that Motown is not R&B?
And the term is cross-over hit. Just because something sells doesn't make it lesser. 
Black comes in different flavors, ya know.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on July 12, 2012, 12:22:40 pm
Interesting thing about Motown is that it was the only American black-owned independant record company/label (that did R&B) to be able to preserve thier entire music catalogue and be able to be bought out by larger entertainment entity (Universal) whereas there were many R&B (some black-owned, some not) independant labels out there at the time that Motown started that went bankrupt and all of thier hit songs went missing. :-\
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: The Griot on July 19, 2012, 05:43:30 am
Marvin Gaye.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: stanleyballard on July 20, 2012, 06:38:31 pm
Is this thread real?  LOL  ;D

Marvin Gaye ....even if it was just his divorce CD containing "Just To Keep U Satisfied"...phenomenal & inspired work.
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: TripleX on October 01, 2012, 05:02:29 pm
A gave out the Ultimate Marvin Gaye cd for Christmas last year compiled from his large body of work, so I'm more than familiar with his music. "A Funky Space Reincarnation" is my favorite song by him. However in answer to the question posed, I have to go with Kells. I have more memories attached to his music and the first time I had sex it was to "12 Play".

✿ MARVIN GAYE - A Funky Space Reincarnation (1978) ✿ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c139yqQOqGU#)

(1993 CLASSIC) R. KELLY - 12 PLAY - 12 PLAY ( TRACK # 12 ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-tV-9_v8Rw#)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: sherelled on October 02, 2012, 12:25:27 am
Alrighty then Triple XXX I think you gave us a "snap shot" of your R. Kelly experience(s). However If it came down to the ultimate singing artist, and I do mean without the engineering used for voices and the "music" Marvin Gaye wins in my book hands down.  ;)
Title: Re: Marvin Gaye or R Kelly
Post by: Battle on April 06, 2019, 05:54:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/graeBNt.jpg)