Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 08:06:37 am

Title: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 08:06:37 am
hey i saw that the black panther wedding thread had started to morph into other discussions. so to keep up with the great kamikazi's rules of order plus i really would like to continue to discuss this issue lets create a special thread for this as well as carry over a thread that was in hudline 1.0. discuss the black avengers as well as post your rosters. mine


Cage: the powerhouse

the black panther: part leader and financier

photon: the power one and co leader

storm: the x factor ;) as well as co leader

warmachine: the tech guy

triathlon: the little guy but with a new costume

the falcon: on again off again. keep in with the persona that priest built witht the house of m, more snap wilson then sam wilson

new character: either a teen guy or gal who is a protege (sp) and the group has to pull out of trouble from time to time

post yours as well as continued discussion over the possibility of a black avengers.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 08:10:34 am
Oh no you didn't.

You did NOT just create a subject for the discussion of the so-called "Mighty Black Avengers".

oops. I guess you did, didn't you?  :D

Somebody throw Shango into that mix.

The "Mighty Black Avengers" would need a member with real Thor-type power if they truly expected to live up to the "Mighty" part of their name.

And while they're at it, someone should change Triathlon's name. He doesn't sound like an individual. He sounds like an event...and I don't mean in the cool way as in Storm's name (a storm is an event you see...)

Okay, I'm done  :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: HappyPants Panther on August 01, 2006, 08:54:58 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Hypestyle on August 01, 2006, 09:04:36 am
well, i guess brother voodoo could be a part-timer, especially for dealing with magic/mystic-related crises..

Say, is the G.W. Bridge guy from SHIELD still alive?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 09:50:46 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.


Alpha Flight are Canadians for Canada. Correct?

I'm not saying the "MIGHTY BLACK AVENGERS" would be black superheroes for black people only, but what is it about black people having a common cause that seems to upset some white people (and not necessarily you - if you are in fact white HPP)? It's ridiculous. If there is a basketball game on television...one team fields a playing roster that is exclusively black, the other exclusively white, the very atmosphere surrounding the game becomes racially charged. Watch a high school basketball or football game featuring teams representing student bodies that are predominantly black vs the the school with the predominantly white student body. You'll see what I mean.

Remember John Thompson's Georgetown Hoyas of the late 1980s? "Hoya Paranoia" is what they called it. I can remember how that very excellent and feared team was described by sportswriters around the country. To maintain strict team discipline, John Thompson forbade any of his players to speak directly with members of the press. Hence, the "Hoya Paranoia" tag. John Thompson, a physically imposing man; tall and powerful, guided his team with the "velvet glove/iron fist" approach and his players responded splendidly to his leadership. Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutumbo, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson played for John Thompson and like so many others who played for him, they adore and revere the man. John Thompson was a black coach of an entirely black basketball team. He didn't recruit race. He recruited his national region and talent and it just so happened that the talent available to him was all black. Once, during a game when the all-black Georgetown Hoyas were dismantling the all-white Brigham Young Cougars basketball team, an announcer remarked that the Hoyas looked like Zulu warriors and that John Thompson could be their king. The announcer wasn't attempting to be derogatory. His statement was made in awe of Georgetown's overwhelming ability and talent. Instead of being celebrated as one of the most premier teams ever in college basketball history, the Hoyas were surrounded by a cloud of suspicion...a collective and successful effort comprised entirely of black males. They weren't feted. They were feared.

My point is this. Why would a team comprised of entirely black superheroes be seen as something troubling? Why would their reason for banding together be suspect?

The Defenders formed because they were tricked into doing so by Loki of Asgard.

What reason was given for the formation of the Champions, Inc. ? There were no blacks on either team I might add.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 09:55:01 am


How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol

Hmmmm...wellllllllllllll...........

There just happens to be a violent white supremacist organization called the "White Wolves" and no one claimed that Priest's "White Wolf" was somehow associated with that organization.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 09:56:57 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol
---------------------------
happy i was feeling you untill the end comment. a white group formed or a group that has members belonging to every possible group from here to outer space would not even raise an eyebrow except for here or on the museum of black superheroes. thats what i meant the burden we hold. we have to worry about coming off forced or being exclusionary becasue we are excluded. heroes are heroes. black heroes are often left off of rosters for various reasons. most of those have nothing to do with race. the reason however for a phi beta sigma, negro leauges, museum of black superheroes is because of the exclusion of blacks from the mainstream organization. so out of proximity, oneness, race or circumstances i see nothing wrong with the black avengers. i think the story would be more entertaining with a more creative group orgin story but i could also see bill foster calling cage on the phone tripping about their previous battle from back in the day, decide to work together meet up with the falcon and before you know it somebody says hey guys we are available lets work together. black folks network all the time. ask redjack about the comic con. black creators of comic book can network and work together but the actual heroes cannot work together because of fear of coming off forced or implausable. :'(
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: HappyPants Panther on August 01, 2006, 09:59:28 am


How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol

Hmmmm...wellllllllllllll...........

There just happens to be a violent white supremacist organization called the "White Wolves" and no one claimed that Priest's "White Wolf" was somehow associated with that organization.

LOL! I knew it was comming!

But seriously though, my previous post adressed situations when I'd be cool with the idea of an all (insert race here) group. Pretty much boils down to something other than race uniting the team. Check my previous post again. Oh, and I'm as black as the ace of spades.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 09:59:40 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.


Alpha Flight are Canadians for Canada. Correct?

I'm not saying the "MIGHTY BLACK AVENGERS" would be black superheroes for black people only, but what is it about black people having a common cause that seems to upset some white people (and not necessarily you - if you are in fact white HPP)? It's ridiculous. If there is a basketball game on television...one team fields a playing roster that is exclusively black, the other exclusively white, the very atmosphere surrounding the game becomes racially charged. Watch a high school basketball or football game featuring teams representing student bodies that are predominantly black vs the the school with the predominantly white student body. You'll see what I mean.

Remember John Thompson's Georgetown Hoyas of the late 1980s? "Hoya Paranoia" is what they called it. I can remember how that very excellent and feared team was described by sportswriters around the country. To maintain strict team discipline, John Thompson forbade any of his players to speak directly with members of the press. Hence, the "Hoya Paranoia" tag. John Thompson, a physically imposing man; tall and powerful, guided his team with the "velvet glove/iron fist" approach and his players responded splendidly to his leadership. Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutumbo, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson played for John Thompson and like so many others who played for him, they adore and revere the man. John Thompson was a black coach of an entirely black basketball team. He didn't recruit race. He recruited his national region and talent and it just so happened that the talent available to him was all black. Once, during a game when the all-black Georgetown Hoyas were dismantling the all-white Brigham Young Cougars basketball team, an announcer remarked that the Hoyas looked like Zulu warriors and that John Thompson could be their king. The announcer wasn't attempting to be derogatory. His statement was made in awe of Georgetown's overwhelming ability and talent. Instead of being celebrated as one of the most premier teams ever in college basketball history, the Hoyas were surrounded by a cloud of suspicion...a collective and successful effort comprised entirely of black males. They weren't feted. They were feared.

My point is this. Why would a team comprised of entirely black superheroes be seen as something troubling? Why would their reason for banding together be suspect?

The Defenders formed because they were tricked into doing so by Loki of Asgard.

What reason was given for the formation of the Champions, Inc. ? There were no blacks on either team I might add.
---------------------
you could research this and present this as a thesis in any african american studies class. it's that deep. go on run with it. i want to hear some more. :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 10:01:44 am
i think marvel creativly would love to see the black avengers however financially they know it won't sell. unless they would be happy with about 17 to 25k per issue.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: HappyPants Panther on August 01, 2006, 10:03:27 am
happy i was feeling you untill the end comment.

Then you were almost 100% correct. ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 01, 2006, 10:08:54 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol


Even if that is a legitimate problem, a common cause is easily settled by a storyline.  The team formed to deal with something that requires a completely black team, like the need to infiltrate an all-black organization.  Once that is dealt with, they decide to stay together.  OR Falcon decides to put together an all-black team to serve as role models in his community.  Or some idiot tries to attack Cage, while he's playing poker with Capt. Monica, BP, Falcon and Storm.  And suddenly we have a team.  And I'm sure a thousand other storylines would provide this common cause, if it is really needed.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 10:17:25 am
i do believe that a lot of the posters on other sites who think the marriage is "forced" and would probably say that about in all black team have to be young (under 21) i say that becasue an older crowd would remember the early 80s and 70s blackexplotation era and would not be freaked out about the concept of an all black/minority team. when reg told us we would see an appearance by virtually every major minority hero in the marvel u (thanks for delivering to reg ;)) i was beaming like i would back when i was 13. that has always been our dream and reg has shown this could happen, if a writer wanted to do it. that takes us to the other age old problem black talent. we have seen some white writers who have not been afraid to tackle such story elements bendis, strazynski, who else?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 10:42:04 am
b-zulu, there will always be some among the "larger comic book buying demographic" who will find reason to complain about black comic book characters and their circumstances.

Today, arguably the most powerful black comic book character in the Marvel/DC Universe is John Stewart, the Green Lantern. Now, he's a fine character. I especially like his current characterization. His glowing green eyes demonstrate the intimate link he has with the power of his Ring. Still, you will find some in that "demographic" who will whine and moan whenever John Stewart is prominently featured in the comics and you especially saw their viscerally negative response against the character when it was he and not Jordan, Rayner or Gardner who was chosen as the Bruce Timm/Justice League Lantern. Bruce Timm is a huge John Stewart fan by the way. When John Stewart's love relationship with Shayera Hol was revealed in Wild Cards, the venom against John Stewart really began to flow.

There is talk about a big screen appearance by Cloak and Dagger. Unfortunately, I have learned to assume the worst of certain segments of the "demographic" whenever a black male is teamed with a white female. I can't recall ever reading any negative messages associated with Namor's relationship with Carrie Alexander during John Byrne's run on the Sub-Mariner. The "demographic" seemed fine with Danny Rand/Misty Knight. The only negatives I've been aware of associated with Ororo's dalliances with Wolverine and Lifeguard's brother (I forget his name), is that neither of them got to get it on with Ororo and that she is now married to T'Challa. I like Jessica Jones. But notice how she is drawn sometimes. She is a pretty lady, but she is often drawn in such a way that her rough life shows through. She is no Emma Frost by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe the "troubling segment" of the "demographic" don't have much of a problem with the Cage/Jones union and the fact that they have a biracial baby because they don't think much of Jessica. But Storm on the otherhand....Storm is unquestionably the most exotic and the most beautiful female comic book character ever created. She could have belonged to the Wolverine or any number of male mutants not named Bishop, but no. She is married to T'Challa and the "demographic" has led the charge of those criticizing the marriage as being "forced".

Those of that certain segment of the "demographic" might have gone for all-black singing groups like "New Edition" because I'm sure that many of them were fans of "New Edition's" imitators: New Kids on the Block, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, etc. But when it comes to an all-black superhero group....now that's something else entirely.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: CIENCIANO on August 01, 2006, 10:45:41 am
Black Panther
Luke cage
Broder voodoo
Blade
War Machine
Photon
Storm
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 10:48:15 am
Those of that certain segment of the "demographic" might have gone for all-black singing groups like "New Edition" because I'm sure that many of them were fans of "New Edition's" imitators: New Kids on the Block, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, etc. But when it comes to an all-black superhero group....now that's something else entirely.

my stomach churned with that thought. ughh new kids :P and those guys sold 100 mil in merchandise. they could not come within a mile of new edition who they were paterned for and you see the shape that group is in. but your point is well made. but my point is what should the fanboy comic fan care if the black avengers get together. they are cast offs the last one on the roster and the first one off. i bet cage does not make the cut after civil war. if that happens reg he should come to wakanda with his family as well. i bet jessica would have some great one liners while she is in wakanda. lol
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 10:56:12 am
Black Panther
Luke cage
Broder voodoo
Blade
War Machine
Photon
Storm


You know....for those overly concerned about the "all-black" composition of such a team, I suggest that there are 4 characters, any one of whom would be possibles for the team and who might ease your minds somewhat.

Mantis - the Vietnamese/French barmaid who is in truth, a very deadly martial artist possessed of great mental and psychological abilities - would be a nice addition to the team. Right now the character is being wasted in her "Celestial Madonna" limbo. Bring her out of that. She could teach Colleen Wing a thing or two about kung-fu fighting.

Shang-Chi - Master of Kung Fu.

Angela Del Toro - The true White Tiger.

Hector D'Acosta - Sunspot. Is he black? I couldn't ever tell if he was or not. If he wasn't one of the mutants depowered by M-Day, he'd be an interesting addition to the team.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: HappyPants Panther on August 01, 2006, 11:02:48 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol


Even if that is a legitimate problem, a common cause is easily settled by a storyline.  The team formed to deal with something that requires a completely black team, like the need to infiltrate an all-black organization.  Once that is dealt with, they decide to stay together.  OR Falcon decides to put together an all-black team to serve as role models in his community.  Or some idiot tries to attack Cage, while he's playing poker with Capt. Monica, BP, Falcon and Storm.  And suddenly we have a team.  And I'm sure a thousand other storylines would provide this common cause, if it is really needed.

I don't think any of the reasons you listed are good enough reasons to build a lasting team out of. Role models for the community? Just doesn't do it for me. Maybe because thats weaker than race. "Lets get together and be role models!"...nah...Or say after they complete their mission they decide, ahem:*Marvin Gaye*"Leeetsss, lets stay together..." Nah..

But like I said before, it could be done but I'd like to see something other than race make it happen. Something stronger. Maybe if they were all apart of the same tragedy or something...
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 11:07:26 am


my stomach churned with that thought. ughh new kids :P and those guys sold 100 mil in merchandise. they could not come within a mile of new edition who they were paterned for and you see the shape that group is in.

Well, you know why the New Kids did so well don't you b-zulu? Maurice Starr - the brother who founded New Edition - also founded the New Kids. Like the Jackson 5 years before, New Edition was a sensation in the white teenybopper demographic  :) What or "who" was the answer to the Jackson 5? The Osmond Brothers. The New Kids answered New Edition just as Elvis answered Fats Domino, Pat Boone answered Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis answered Chuck Berry, Vanilla Ice tried to answer Hammer  :D and so on and so forth. Benny Goodman was coronated as the King of Swing until Chick Webb proved that he was really only the "Prime Minister" of Swing  :D

But it doesn't seem to work that way in the reverse and especially in the realm of comic books. How many blacks were in Hawkeye's West Coast Avengers? I can't remember one. What if there was a black superhero team called the "Awesome Fawsome (Foursome) to answer Marvel's Fantastic Four? Do you think the Awesome Fawsome would realize the same success as has the Backstreet Boys, New Kids, Pat Boone (Pat Boone was getting rich singing Little Richard's hits while Little Richard was living hand-to-mouth).... and others?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 11:12:10 am
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol


Even if that is a legitimate problem, a common cause is easily settled by a storyline.  The team formed to deal with something that requires a completely black team, like the need to infiltrate an all-black organization.  Once that is dealt with, they decide to stay together.  OR Falcon decides to put together an all-black team to serve as role models in his community.  Or some idiot tries to attack Cage, while he's playing poker with Capt. Monica, BP, Falcon and Storm.  And suddenly we have a team.  And I'm sure a thousand other storylines would provide this common cause, if it is really needed.

I don't think any of the reasons you listed are good enough reasons to build a lasting team out of. Role models for the community? Just doesn't do it for me. Maybe because thats weaker than race. "Lets get together and be role models!"...nah...Or say after they complete their mission they decide, ahem:*Marvin Gaye*"Leeetsss, lets stay together..." Nah..

But like I said before, it could be done but I'd like to see something other than race make it happen. Something stronger. Maybe if they were all apart of the same tragedy or something...

 :)  You're a tough sell HPP.

Did you collect the Defenders publication?

You know, that group was not formed by any "tragedy". They were tricked into becoming a team by Loki...actually, Loki and Dormmamu(sp)? the demon with the lit matchstick head.

Now what's the better reason for forming a superhero team? Forming a team to serve as role models and give hope to those living in a beseiged community or forming a team because you were tricked into doing so?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 01, 2006, 11:12:57 am
Darnit!
I was gonna post the Mighty Black Avengers thread!

grrr...

i'll read this later.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 11:15:02 am
can someone find the commision that set this all off back from hef 1.0?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Pantherfan on August 01, 2006, 11:38:18 am
Add Kasper Cole to the team and it'll be complete.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: JRCarter on August 01, 2006, 11:49:53 am
How many blacks were in Hawkeye's West Coast Avengers?

Rhodey as Iron Man.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Hypestyle on August 01, 2006, 11:55:40 am
How many blacks were in Hawkeye's West Coast Avengers?

Rhodey as Iron Man.

and eventually he rejoined as War Machine.. but the title got canceled shortly after..
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: colin solan on August 01, 2006, 12:00:22 pm
Hector D'Acosta - Sunspot. Is he black? I couldn't ever tell if he was or not. If he wasn't one of the mutants depowered by M-Day, he'd be an interesting addition to the team.

Roberto DaCosta is Brazilian so I assume he is at least part black. As I recall, his mother was a white American. Last I knew he was running the X-Corporation.  I'm fairly certain he still has his powers, I think Dani Moonstar was the only one of the original New Mutants to get depowered. It'd be nice to see someone doing something with him.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 01, 2006, 12:02:46 pm
this thread is the rebirth of my thread about "The Champions" ... let's create a black superhero team.

:)

great job!

and yes, you can write a thesis about this subject.

sinjection, you've been on point with EVERY comment.
good stuff man!

this book wont sell a million but if written properly and marketed thru black media outlets, it could become the new "ish."
ya feel me?

like B.I.G. said, "f*** tha world dont ask me for ***t, cuz every u want u gotta work HARD 4 it."

the cool people want this to become a reality.
even if it lasts for 12-24 issues as a test run, give it to us marvel.

i say marvel cuz i cant think of many brothers and sisters that are in the marvel Universe that would team up
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 01, 2006, 12:05:08 pm
yes...add Kasper and let the book be cowritten by priest and hudlin.

that way we can have Political T'challa and Snap Wilson Falcon.

What about Battlestar?
Obviously, i wont be gettin a new Silver Sable and the wild pack anytime soon, so bring him into the fold so we can have him learning from Isiah Bradley.

;)

u like that, don't you?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: colin solan on August 01, 2006, 12:23:04 pm
What about Silhouette from New Warriors?? She was a cool character with a great backstory and interesting powers
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: colin solan on August 01, 2006, 12:47:49 pm
(http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earthfvy6.jpg)

Does anyone else remember this alternate reality version of the Avengers from the New Warriors storyline where Sphinx ruled the Earth??
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 01, 2006, 01:05:59 pm
I agree with Happypants Panther, something other than race is more motivating. Unless they were all hunted by the KKK and had to defend each other. They became succesful and decided to remain a team--now that's a different thing even though it's based on race.


The Black Avengers, courtesy of Black Superhero Museum

(http://img274.imageshack.us/img274/9432/blkavengerzrl7.gif)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: JRCarter on August 01, 2006, 01:15:38 pm
On the old forum, when we discussed this topic, one of the posters posted this:

(http://members.aol.com/nefilmwrks/pantherold.jpg)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 02:07:44 pm
i remember both of those but it was one more that featured only marvel characters. i will look around for it.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 01, 2006, 02:21:40 pm
i remember both of those but it was one more that featured only marvel characters. i will look around for it.



This..?

([url]http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/earthfvy6.jpg[/url])

Does anyone else remember this alternate reality version of the Avengers from the New Warriors storyline where Sphinx ruled the Earth??
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 01, 2006, 03:20:36 pm
no it was another black and white piece i think it might of had triathlon and others in it.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Francisco on August 01, 2006, 04:55:25 pm
Josiah X the leader

Monica Rambeu powerhouse number 1

Monet St. Croix the powerhouse number 2.

Cage

War Machine the tech genius

Brother Voodo the magic one. (with a power boost)

Shango (with a powerboost as well)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: blkyoda on August 01, 2006, 05:41:15 pm
The only people I can see doing the team thing, without it being sometype of 'Mystical character brings them all together'....is:

War Machine - probably leading things, he's got the experience

Vibraxus, as the young hot head and he's got interesting powers

Luke Cage for strength and comedy relief

Captain Marvel/ Photon for super energy powers and to have at least one woman

And the other TWO should be new characters. Most superhero teams add one or two new people (or dust off someone that you haven't thought of in years) to give themselves some artistic freedom. To be fair, I can't see BP bothering to be on a team, but he'd fund them.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 06:52:10 pm


Shango (with a powerboost as well)

That's what I'm talkin' about.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Hulkster on August 01, 2006, 07:57:30 pm
There were no blacks on either team I might add.

Cage was a Defender for nearly a year and Black Goliath was a part-time member of The Champions.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 01, 2006, 08:02:13 pm
There were no blacks on either team I might add.

Cage was a Defender for nearly a year.

Yes Hulkster. Thank you.

You're right of course. Cage was at one time, a member of the Defenders.

However, at the Defender's inception, there were no blacks on that team; or maybe there was and I'm just colorblind  :)

Later in their run, Alpha Flight also added a black member to it's team. I forget what the cute little girl's name was, but her twin sister was a mutant called "Goblyn" or something like that. I believe the two had some sort of psychic link that enabled the little human twin to communicate with her mutant sister and moderate her behavior.

I could be mistaken.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: mr. irrelevant on August 01, 2006, 09:27:17 pm
I'd hate it if they'd call it the "Black" anything.  That would be so annoying. 
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: kitamu Re on August 01, 2006, 10:26:54 pm
yeah I feel you on that. Iam not black but African, and if you wanna go deeper I am a nubian from the dinka and yoruba tribes.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Open palm on August 01, 2006, 10:44:07 pm
yeah I feel you on that. Iam not black but African, and if you wanna go deeper I am a nubian from the dinka and yoruba tribes.

Good for you, mon.  :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 02, 2006, 06:19:02 am
So it's like this.

Urban population centers in the U.S. and throughout the world, are being plagued by huge influxes of illegal, addictive narcotics and high-tech weapons of death. This is especially true in those urban areas populated by black people. Drug addiction and deaths related to the usage of the drugs as well as the extreme violence that ensues as a result of large, well-armed street gangs warring with one another over turf and such.

These events do not escape the attention of the citizens of Wakanda. For one Wakandan in particular, the tales of drug addiction and violence is so troubling to him, that he feels the powerful need to do something to help reverse and eliminate this scourge. The Wakandan is the son of the farmer M'Jumbak who was slain by agents of Baron Macabre in the classic "Panther's Rage" series (the name of M'Jumbak's son escapes me at the moment, but anyone with a copy of "Panther's Prey" handy can readily find out what it is).

A former drug addict himself, M'Jumbak's son decides to leave the relative utopia of Wakanda and travel to one of the afflicted areas to lend counsel and aid to those in desperate need. He speaks to his King T'Challa and his lovely Queen Ororo and informs him of his plans. With their royal blessing, the young Wakandan man makes his way to the U.S. and then, into the urban drug-infested dens of iniquity. To assist him in his task, T'Challa arranges for his dear friends Luke Cage and Sam Wilson (the Falcon), to look after the young man. Very soon, the young Wakandan's work begins to bear fruit. His successes bring him to the attention of the good, the bad, and the ugly. The "good", officer Kevin "Kasper" (I hate that nickname. It's silly.), Cole. The "bad", the drug gangs and most ominously, the huge entity behind the whole process of destruction that has wreaked havoc in the world's urban communities and the "ugly", Sgt. Tork. While the "good" and the "ugly" all laud the young Wakandan's efforts, the "bad" decides that he must be eliminated.

The young Wakandan is scheduled to be feted by the Governor, the Mayor and other leading citizens in recognition of his outstanding work in turning the drug-addicted into people who can once again believe in themselves and become constructive members of society. Threats against the young Wakandan's life have Cage, Falcon, Cole and Tork on high alert. Also present for the ceremony are Photon, Black Goliath and his wife Claire Temple. Photon and Black Goliath would be there in costume as emissaries of the superhero community both to show their appreciation and to provide any assistance to Falcon and Cage should an attempt be made on the young Wakandan's life. Claire would be there because of her involvement with the young Wakandan's "Save The Youth" movement. Cloak is there as well, but out of sight. He is just there to get a look at the young Wakandan who has done so much good for so many people.  All of this super-powered muscle prompts the true evil behind the scourge to reveal itself. It must attack with all of its might if it is to kill the young Wakandan and instill fear and despair into the hearts of its urban victims if it is to succeed in its agenda.

The young Wakandan finishes his speech and prepares to leave the dias. Suddenly, violent explosions rock the gathering. Chaos erupts. Cage moves to rescue people from falling debris. Goliath and Photon are occupied with much of the same. Cloak wants to help, but without Dagger to keep the darkness inside of him at bay, he dare not sweep those endangered into his cloak. The Falcon stays with the young Wakandan as long as he is able to do so, but more explosions and immediate crisis draws him away from his charge. Kasper Cole remains vigilant however and it proves to be very costly as it is at that time, the evil decides to make its move. Shouting their battle cry, armed men in serpentine costumes blast in from the perimeter of the crowd and repel in from above. They are the Sons Of The Serpent.

A cadre of Serpents move immediately toward the young Wakandan. Kasper Cole and other policemen move forward to intercept them, but they are quickly overcome. The brave Kasper Cole is tragically gunned down. You wanted a tragic event. here it is   :D Just as the heroes (Cloak has now entered the fray and the other heroes are aware of and thankful for his presence), begin to regain control of the situation and defeat some of the Serpents attempting to delay them, those Serpents making for the young Wakandan seize him and hustle him away.

Kasper Cole will live, but he will be paralyzed from the waist down for the remainder of his life. The good news for Kasper is that he and his family will get to move to Wakanda where they will live in the very lap of luxury  :) Gathered in a room of the Wakandan Palace...Cage, Falcon, Goliath, Photon and Cloak (now with Dagger at his side), are de-briefed by a concerned, but always composed and in command, Black Panther. He is flanked by his lovely and powerful wife Storm. It is decided that together, they will seek out the Sons of the Serpent, free the young Wakandan (the son of M'Jumbak), and destroy the evil plans of the Serpents.

The Mighty....er, team of black superheroes and one lovely white woman who is along to provide fighting assistance and lunch for Cloak if the need should arise....is born.

Huh? Huh?  :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Hulkster on August 02, 2006, 08:20:54 am
There were no blacks on either team I might add.

Cage was a Defender for nearly a year.

Yes Hulkster. Thank you.

You're right of course. Cage was at one time, a member of the Defenders.

However, at the Defender's inception, there were no blacks on that team; or maybe there was and I'm just colorblind  :)

That's correct.  I think that the original team consisted solely of Hulk, Namor and Strange.  Additional members came later.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Hulkster on August 02, 2006, 08:27:35 am
I don't think that the term "black" should be a part of the team's name and I don't think that it should be 100% black.  90% at the most.  Of course, history unfortunately shows that the book won't sell well. 
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 02, 2006, 10:20:20 am
so it comes down to three issues? 1) the team name 2) the team racial composition 3) how they get together

well as i said kind of sarcasticly before if they are made up of past or current avengers then i argue that they won't call themelves the black avengers but we would if not even indirectly when describing what group we were talking about. i think there are enough cool names to come up with a non the black ________ name.

the team i argue could and should be if not 100% black then  90% black. save the white members as supporting cast like jessica jones or jarvis or mr weatherby their butler :D.

we have all pointed out a number of cool ways they could get together. and it could be done in a way so that is does not come off as my fanboy comrads like to say "forced" ::)

if 5 heroes got together who were all white and male you all wouldnt think twice about it. some would even drop some duckets on it and say how they pwnz or rock. but i know i know us and about 30 other dudes would be the only ones who would buy a black team book. :'(
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 02, 2006, 11:04:58 am


if 5 heroes got together who were all white and male you all wouldnt think twice about it. some would even drop some duckets on it and say how they pwnz or rock. but i know i know us and about 30 other dudes would be the only ones who would buy a black team book. :'(

Many fans (white fans) of Bruce Timm's Justice League were incensed that John Stewart was chosen to be the representing Green Lantern for the program and that Hawkgirl was chosen over Hawkman. Most of them wanted Hawkgirl gone and they wanted John Stewart replaced by Kyle Rayner. The opinion of many of those fans was if the creative team had wanted to introduce a black character onto the team, it should have been Steel. The Green Lantern is a far more powerful and compelling character than is Steel. Unfortunately, it seemed that most of those fanboys didn't want to see a black character wielding the power of a Green Lantern. When Stewart pressed his big, full lips to the comely, ruby lips of Shayera Hol in "Wild Cards"....well, many of them for damned sure didn't want to see that  :)

The fans of Timm's Justice League wouldn't have had problem one if the team had been entirely white. The Legion Of Superheroes animated show is set to air this fall. I've seen some of the promotions for the program, but I've yet to see a black Legion member. So where is the outcry against what at this date, appears to be an all-white Legion Of Superheroes cartoon set to air on the WB network in the fall....y'all?  :D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 02, 2006, 11:26:25 am
I don't think that the term "black" should be a part of the team's name and I don't think that it should be 100% black.  90% at the most.  Of course, history unfortunately shows that the book won't sell well. 

I don't know. I'm sitting here thinking...again  :) ... and it occurs to me that Marvel has a publication titled "Daughters of the Dragon". Now at first blush, one might naturally assume that the title might allude to a kung-fu action and associate the dragon with the Asian culture. But when that person would look at the cover he or she would see two women - one black, the other white. There wouldn't be an Asian person in sight. Now I remember something vague about Colleen Wing supposedly being half-Japanese or something like that. The way she is drawn however, she looks like a red-headed caucasian female. The "larger comic book buying demographic" doesn't seem to have any problems with Iron Fist trumping Shang Chi as Marvel's premier kung fu master although the art of kung fu is Asian in origin and the first-tier Marvel kung fu character is a white man.

But even today....yes, even today, there are some people who have a negative reaction to a black male superhero being called the Black Panther.

Remember Black Lightning? Black Vulcan? Black Manta? Black Goliath? Black Mariah (from the early Luke Cage days  :)

Now everybody's going to be uptight about the word "black" in the name of a black character or the name of a group of black characters? I agree. If such a team is ever brought into existence, the word "black" shouldn't be the kneejerk choice. However, if the creators of the group happen to come up with a name in which the word "black" makes it absolutely perfect, then I say go with it.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Francisco on August 02, 2006, 04:48:43 pm
What about:



THE EBONY UNIT


Or


OBSIDIAN FORCE
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 02, 2006, 05:39:37 pm
i say we call the team BLACK

What do you guys think?

i think it is kinda hot.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: kitamu Re on August 02, 2006, 05:48:29 pm
Quote
Kasper Cole will live, but he will be paralyzed from the waist down for the remainder of his life. The good news for Kasper is that he and his family will get to move to Wakanda where they will live in the very lap of luxury   Gathered in a room of the Wakandan Palace

I like this idea sinection, I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 02, 2006, 06:14:33 pm
why is kasper paralyzed?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: blkyoda on August 02, 2006, 06:20:26 pm
Many fans (white fans) of Bruce Timm's Justice League were incensed that John Stewart was chosen to be the representing Green Lantern for the program and that Hawkgirl was chosen over Hawkman. Most of them wanted Hawkgirl gone and they wanted John Stewart replaced by Kyle Rayner. The opinion of many of those fans was if the creative team had wanted to introduce a black character onto the team, it should have been Steel. The Green Lantern is a far more powerful and compelling character than is Steel. Unfortunately, it seemed that most of those fanboys didn't want to see a black character wielding the power of a Green Lantern. When Stewart pressed his big, full lips to the comely, ruby lips of Shayera Hol in "Wild Cards"....well, many of them for damned sure didn't want to see that 

The fans of Timm's Justice League wouldn't have had problem one if the team had been entirely white. The Legion Of Superheroes animated show is set to air this fall. I've seen some of the promotions for the program, but I've yet to see a black Legion member. So where is the outcry against what at this date, appears to be an all-white Legion Of Superheroes cartoon set to air on the WB network in the fall....y'all? 


Yeah Sin but why should be base our moral values and character on the lowest common denominator? Remember, "the hater taught hate that's why we're gangbangin'" (Chuck D.)
Besides it depends on who you ask. John Stewart was basically the most popular character on Justice League by the time that show went off the air. He had more shows focused on HIM than almost any other character - PLUS you have to look at the age groups. When I was working with 4 and 6th graders a few summers ago, when JL was in it's first or second season as far as these kids knew Green Lantern was black. They didn't know anything else and it made perfect sense to them. There're always haters out there, but again, I'm just not into using a loud abrasive minority to impugn the majority. I think most people out there liked John Stewart as GL if they didn't he wouldn't have gotten so much airtime.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 02, 2006, 08:36:49 pm
i say we call the team BLACK

What do you guys think?

i think it is kinda hot.

What is the significance of the title, BLACK?

Personally I like GREEN.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 02, 2006, 08:39:12 pm
that's just it.

what does BLACK signify?

Everyone's interpretation would/could be different.

well, it SOUNDS cool!
YEAH!
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 02, 2006, 09:00:59 pm
Oh ok.  :D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: kitamu Re on August 02, 2006, 10:16:15 pm
Quote
that's just it.

what does BLACK signify?

Yeah it is a 2 dimensional paradigm, Iam black you are white, not really grounded in reality since there is no skin tone that could scientifically called black. melanin is not black in color the darkest this energy molecule can become is a dark blue, but because of the color spectrum we see it as black. A 3rd dimensional paradigm shift in thought would focus on the facts of our collective consciousness as africans or people of soul, a common genetic ancestry. This goes all they way to the 9th dimension of thought which is the origin of all matter. So calling ourselves black in the 21st century is self-defeating. If people with less melanin want to call themselves white they have that right, doesn't make it FACTUAL but let them live in their delusional world.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 05:04:53 am
Quote
Kasper Cole will live, but he will be paralyzed from the waist down for the remainder of his life. The good news for Kasper is that he and his family will get to move to Wakanda where they will live in the very lap of luxury   Gathered in a room of the Wakandan Palace

I like this idea sinection, I REALLY LIKE THIS IDEA.

Why thank you, kitamuRe  :) I rather enjoyed visualizing the entire tableau myself.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 05:21:46 am
why is kasper paralyzed?

I'd considered having him killed, but thought better of it.

There are those who seem to believe that nothing short of a true tragedy would be reason enough for a group of super-powered vigilantes to consolidate their assets and form a super-hero team. It seems that in the case of a "black" superhero team, that tragedy would have to be pretty damned compelling. Oh, it's okay for white superheroes to form Champions, Inc. ....just because you know... But black people? Black people had better have some sort of super tragedy to justify their even looking at each other cross-eyed and greeting each other in pig latin  ;)  You know what some folks say, a group of 8 white men constitutes a business meeting. A group of 8 black men constitutes a street gang.

So, the initial impetus for the forming of the "Mighty .... ummmm.... team of superheroes with a greater degree of melanin content in their skin than the average superhero team", was the kidnapping of the young Wakandan and secondarily, the shooting and subsequent paralysis of one Kevin "Kasper" Cole. Having mused a little more on this story, I've decided that the one great tragedy that would cement the team together would be the eventual death of the young Wakandan. I consider him to be a more noble character than Cole, so his sacrifice would be greater felt.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 05:32:24 am
Quote
that's just it.

what does BLACK signify?

Yeah it is a 2 dimensional paradigm, Iam black you are white, not really grounded in reality since there is no skin tone that could scientifically called black. melanin is not black in color the darkest this energy molecule can become is a dark blue, but because of the color spectrum we see it as black. A 3rd dimensional paradigm shift in thought would focus on the facts of our collective consciousness as africans or people of soul, a common genetic ancestry. This goes all they way to the 9th dimension of thought which is the origin of all matter. So calling ourselves black in the 21st century is self-defeating. If people with less melanin want to call themselves white they have that right, doesn't make it FACTUAL but let them live in their delusional world.

Then again, we who refer to ourselves as "Black American" or "African-American" cannot truly ground ourselves in that identity either. There are individuals of European descent who because of their long presence on the African continent, have established family histories there. There have been instances of such people becoming naturalized citizens of the U.S. and telling "Black Americans" that they - though white - are by virtue of their birth on the African continent, more "African-American" than blacks who refer to themselves as "African-American" are.

Then, you always have those who just enjoy being difficult for difficulty's sake. White people who claim that since common theory states that mankind originated in Africa that they too are members of the "African Diaspora".

You see kitamuRe? They've got us coming and going  :D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 05:44:55 am


John Stewart was basically the most popular character on Justice League by the time that show went off the air. He had more shows focused on HIM than almost any other character - PLUS you have to look at the age groups. When I was working with 4 and 6th graders a few summers ago, when JL was in it's first or second season as far as these kids knew Green Lantern was black. They didn't know anything else and it made perfect sense to them. There're always haters out there, but again, I'm just not into using a loud abrasive minority to impugn the majority. I think most people out there liked John Stewart as GL if they didn't he wouldn't have gotten so much airtime.

To believe that John Stewart had become the most popular character on Justice League by the time the series ended would be a stretch anyway you look at it. If a popularity poll was taken, I believe that Batman would emerge as the most popular character on the series, followed by Superman, followed by the Flash, J'onn J'onzz, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl and Green Lantern in that order. The only place where those poll results might show differently would be in this very forum. And given the sentiments expressed by some of our distinguished members, I wouldn't say that it would be a sure bet that Green Lantern would win "most popular JL member" here either  :D

You say that John Stewart was featured in most of the episodes and suggest that it was somehow connected to the character's growing popularity. I disagree. From some of the posts I've read on other boards, many fans wanted to see more Batman and less of everyone else, John Stewart in particular.

The reason for John Stewart's "frequent" appearances on the show - if such was the case - would be largely attributed to creator's preference. Bruce Timm has stated many times that of all the Green Lanterns, John Stewart is his favorite. James Tucker and Dwayne McDuffie like him too. So, there you go.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Wise Son on August 03, 2006, 06:11:17 am
You say that John Stewart was featured in most of the episodes and suggest that it was somehow connected to the character's growing popularity. I disagree. From some of the posts I've read on other boards, many fans wanted to see more Batman and less of everyone else, John Stewart in particular.
Just shows how much of a divide there often is between fans and 'real people'. ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 06:26:19 am
i say we call the team BLACK

What do you guys think?

i think it is kinda hot.

Well my friend, I'll tell you what I think.

There exists a television network called Black Entertainment Television.

Although there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of other television networks which deal primarily with issues, interests and diversions aimed primarily at the dominant European culture and their entertainment tastes, there are those white people who look at BET and will say....

"BET?! What the hell is that? A network for black people only?! Well, if 'they' can have 'their' BET, where is our 'WET"?

I hope you get my meaning  ;)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 03, 2006, 08:34:16 am
Hey.

Does anyone remember, or is anyone even aware of Marvel Comics' "Young Gods"?

http://www.marveldirectory.com/teams/younggods.htm

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/brightsword.htm

They were created by Odin through the agency of a being known as Ego-Prime. I remember the book because if featured outstanding work by the late, great John Buscema AND, the Young Gods included a black man. He's just visible in a graphic in one of the links provided.

Ah, here he is. His name is Genii.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/geniiyoung.htm
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Rockscissorspaper on August 03, 2006, 02:14:30 pm
If all white teams form and it's not seen as "forced" then a group of blacks getting together should be okay as well.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: kitamu Re on August 03, 2006, 02:16:58 pm
I agree 100%.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: mr. irrelevant on August 03, 2006, 02:55:29 pm
If all white teams form and it's not seen as "forced" then a group of blacks getting together should be okay as well.

As long as they're not called something stupid like "The Super Soul Brothers", I'm okay with it.  It should be something cool and universal.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 03, 2006, 03:55:34 pm
no, they're gonna be called The FUNKtastic Force!

*sigh*

can you image all the afros, peace pics and daishikis that team will be sportin'?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: blkyoda on August 03, 2006, 05:04:41 pm
You say that John Stewart was featured in most of the episodes and suggest that it was somehow connected to the character's growing popularity. I disagree. From some of the posts I've read on other boards, many fans wanted to see more Batman and less of everyone else, John Stewart in particular.
Just shows how much of a divide there often is between fans and 'real people'. ;D


Exactly Wise Son!!!! Comic fans can be a particularly cranky and bitchy and possessive when it comes to thier characters. (Hey did I just diss myself ;D  ? But seriously, regular people, who just watched cartoons and enjoyed them - I'm assuming they were pretty into GL. Like I said, none of my students collected comic books (i know cuz I asked them before I brought in my collection ;D and they were ALL about Green Lantern. Nothing is cooler to me than being on a playground and seeing a black boy and white boy arguing over WHO gets to be green lantern on the playground. Checking out comic forums to see how regular people thought of  JLU is like asking Republican Primary voters what they think of abortion, prayer in schools and the War in Iraq and assuming they're reflective of anybody else who voted for George Bush in 2004.

The writers could like him all they wanted but if Green Lantern wasn't popular with the viewers then he wouldn't have shown up so much. Batman and Superman had already had a 5 and 3 year solo television run so of course they were more popular but as far as Justice League ITSELF goes, I'm pretty certain GL was more popular than the rest of the cast.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 03, 2006, 07:51:25 pm
To believe that John Stewart had become the most popular character on Justice League by the time the series ended would be a stretch anyway you look at it. If a popularity poll was taken, I believe that Batman would emerge as the most popular character on the series, followed by Superman, followed by the Flash, J'onn J'onzz, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl and Green Lantern in that order. The only place where those poll results might show differently would be in this very forum. And given the sentiments expressed by some of our distinguished members, I wouldn't say that it would be a sure bet that Green Lantern would win "most popular JL member" here either  :D

You say that John Stewart was featured in most of the episodes and suggest that it was somehow connected to the character's growing popularity. I disagree. From some of the posts I've read on other boards, many fans wanted to see more Batman and less of everyone else, John Stewart in particular.

The reason for John Stewart's "frequent" appearances on the show - if such was the case - would be largely attributed to creator's preference. Bruce Timm has stated many times that of all the Green Lanterns, John Stewart is his favorite. James Tucker and Dwayne McDuffie like him too. So, there you go.

Let's see J'onn was so popular they removed him from the series for a year and did anyone notice?  Hawkgirl was removed and again, did anyone really notice.  Superman and Batman's popularity (and to a lesser degree Wonder Woman's) can't be compared to John Stewart's because they're popularity originates outside of the series.  John, Hawkgirl, J'onn and Flash's TV popularity are solely the products of the series.  (And Flash was probably the least popular of all--he was the humor for the most part.)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 04, 2006, 06:15:03 am
 :)

Fellas, let's look at the "fans" or "fanatics",  and the "regular folks".

Hockey Fan(atics) go to the games and support the sport.

Regular Folks don't seem to particularly care for Hockey. They don't go to the arenas to watch the games. When Hockey is televised, regular folks aren't watching. As a result, Hockey has become like Soccer or Bowling. Last fall, more television viewers watched the Women's Collegiate Softball Championship Series than watched Hockey's Stanley Cup Playoffs.

In this case, your view that the opinion of "regular folks" hold more sway over that of the "fan(atic) holds water.

Now on the other hand, "regular folks" might enjoy watching American Idol on television. However, the American Idol fan(atic) watches the show and participates in the nature of the program. In this case, an American Idol contestant receives no assistance whatsoever from those "regular folks" who might have favored him or her, because the "regular folks" just watch the program. The American Idol fan(atic) will pick up a phone and vote for the Idol contestant of their choice  :) Now let me break it down for you.

American Idol contestant Chuck Berry vs American Idol contestant Elvis Presley. Most viewers and most importantly, most fan(atics) of the program are of the European persuasion. Now we all know who would win the contest don't we? Huh Uh. Don't even try it yoda. I see you over there calculating and cogitating...trying to find someway to convince me that those fans would find some way to judge those two contestants on the merits of their talent rather than basing their judgement on certain other physical, psychological and socialogical characteristics :D  The fan(atics) would certainly vote for Elvis, The King of Rock and Roll  :D

Now with respect to Bruce Timm's Justice League program.

The fan(atics) of the program expressed an opinion that was probably shared by many other viewers. The "many other viewers" would be those fan(atics) who simply felt it wasn't worth their time to express their opinions in online forums discussing the program. The remainder of the viewing segment would be the "regular folks" who might have watched the program to blow off stress or share some time with their children.

If the fan(atics) had, had their way...and Bruce Timm and James Tucker were the shrinking violent types....("shrinking violent types"...what the hell??!!! :D :D :D :D make that shrinking violet types) , the Green Lantern, John Stewart would have been replaced straight away by Kyle Rayner and Hawkman would have replaced Hawkgirl. The fan(atics) seemed to dislike John Stewart as much as Bruce Timm liked him. Like those critics of Mr. Hudlin who find and pick at anything they consider problematic with his effort, the fan(atics) of the Justice League program railed against John Stewart. He could do nothing right. Stewart was too bossy. He was too mean. He wasn't imaginative enough to utilize the awesome potential of his Power Ring (see Bruce Timm's comments about the "big green boxing gloves"). They hated him  :)

While Timm and Tucker were absolutely committed to the John Stewart character, to Shayera Hol and to the plans they had for those two, they did make some concessions to the fan(atics). You who viewed the program regularly will remember how in later issues, John Stewart began to make more energy constructs with his Power Ring. Read Timm's remarks about fan reaction and his admissions that he and his team might have miscalculated on some aspects of their series in the publication "Modern Masters Volume Three: Bruce Timm" or for those of you who purchased the Justice League DVD set for Season One, take a listen to Timm and Tucker's comments in the "special features". You will see that the fan(atic) exercised a great deal of influence on the decisions made by the Justice League creative team.

Now yoda, you who are among Mr. Hudlin's staunchest critics, I believe you would describe yourself as a comic book fan(atic) and a Black Panther fan(atic) wouldn't you? You're behavior in this forum mirrors almost exactly that of the Justice League fan(atics) in forums dealing with their pet program  :D

You expect the Panther fan(atic) to have a voice in making positive change (so-called postive change, that is), in this current run by highlighting Mr. Hudliin's supposed deficiencies in the hope that it might somehow "wake him up" and nudge him to write a Black Panther more to your liking don't you?

And you believe the "regular folks" held more sway than did the "fan(atics)" who were in Bruce Timm's grill all the time? Come on, man  ;)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: blkyoda on August 04, 2006, 09:28:48 am
:)

Fellas, let's look at the "fans" or "fanatics",  and the "regular folks".

Hockey Fan(atics) go to the games and support the sport.

Regular Folks don't seem to particularly care for Hockey. They don't go to the arenas to watch the games. When Hockey is televised, regular folks aren't watching. As a result, Hockey has become like Soccer or Bowling. Last fall, more television viewers watched the Women's Collegiate Softball Championship Series than watched Hockey's Stanley Cup Playoffs.

In this case, your view that the opinion of "regular folks" hold more sway over that of the "fan(atic) holds water.

It's kindof a spurious comparison. Sports are dependant on the DIEHARD fan because they're the ones (well, them and corporate sponsors) who actually buy seats and tickets. T.V. money is T.V. money, Hockey was losing money because they couldn't fill their seats, that was a problem LONG before the Television ratings started to tank. I'm not sure where you're going with this....



Now on the other hand, "regular folks" might enjoy watching American Idol on television. However, the American Idol fan(atic) watches the show and participates in the nature of the program. In this case, an American Idol contestant receives no assistance whatsoever from those "regular folks" who might have favored him or her, because the "regular folks" just watch the program. The American Idol fan(atic) will pick up a phone and vote for the Idol contestant of their choice  :) Now let me break it down for you.

Still not understanding.....


American Idol contestant Chuck Berry vs American Idol contestant Elvis Presley. Most viewers and most importantly, most fan(atics) of the program are of the European persuasion. Now we all know who would win the contest don't we? Huh Uh. Don't even try it yoda. I see you over there calculating and cogitating...trying to find someway to convince me that those fans would find some way to judge those two contestants on the merits of their talent rather than basing their judgement on certain other physical, psychological and socialogical characteristics :D  The fan(atics) would certainly vote for Elvis, The King of Rock and Roll  :D


Oh c'mon now :D I'm not a sophist. I know that Elvis would beat ouf Chuck Berry amongst Baby Boom white folks. But to be fair, 'merits of thier talent' is pretty subjective. We had this huge debate at a party I was at awhile back about who was a better singer Justin Timberlake or Usher. Even if we had someone in the room who was a trained singer I would've been a subjective assesment as to who was Better. Singing is a heart, thing, an emotional thing, so saying who's BETTER or WORSE is all a matter of personal choice. Still don't see where you're going with this....


Now with respect to Bruce Timm's Justice League program.

The fan(atics) of the program expressed an opinion that was probably shared by many other viewers. The "many other viewers" would be those fan(atics) who simply felt it wasn't worth their time to express their opinions in online forums discussing the program. The remainder of the viewing segment would be the "regular folks" who might have watched the program to blow off stress or share some time with their children.

Wait, so you're creating 3 different categories of viewers? Fanatics who express themselves on computer forums, the fans that likely agree with them that just don't go on forums and then 'regular folks' who don't care? That's MUCH more complicated (and I don't see how this relates to sports.) It's a MAJOR leap to assume that the people who scream and yell on message boards represent anybody other than themselves. To assume they're speaking for the masses of other 'fanatics' who just don't have the time to speak their equal complaints is fairly presumptuous. Like I said, a better example is GOP primary voters and those who voted for Bush in 2004. The passionate minority is just that: A passionate MINORITY, if they really represented what everyone else thought then they wouldn't be a minority. John McCain was more popular than George Bush in 2000 amongst ALL Americans GOP and Dems. However, the people who vote in primaries are HARD care right wingers and they preferred Bush. The point being, you cater to extremists to get where you want to get, then you moderate when you have to speak to a large audience. If JLU wanted to cater to fanboys only they'd have had Kyle Raynor or Hawkman but they knew that thier bread was going to be buttered by the LARGER fan population and THOSE people would want a team with more than one woman and a team with at least one minority character. At the end of the day, fanboys may get your show on the air (or get your movie to a good opending weekend) but what SUSTAINS your comicproduct is being able to get people to watch or consume your stuff that aren't die hard fans.
Fanboys didn't have THAT much sway - they can be listened to but they don't run the show, or control the show. You seem to be focusing on the college age to 30 somethings that watched JLU or taped it on a Saturday night. That was NOT the main demographic that Cartoon network wanted. That was a nice way to bring in Buick advertisers and such, but the fan base they SOUGHT was 6 to 14 year old kids who'd watch the cartoon and buy toys and merchandising....


If the fan(atics) had, had their way...and Bruce Timm and James Tucker were the shrinking violent types....("shrinking violent types"...what the hell??!!! :D :D :D :D make that shrinking violet types) , the Green Lantern, John Stewart would have been replaced straight away by Kyle Rayner and Hawkman would have replaced Hawkgirl. The fan(atics) seemed to dislike John Stewart as much as Bruce Timm liked him. Like those critics of Mr. Hudlin who find and pick at anything they consider problematic with his effort, the fan(atics) of the Justice League program railed against John Stewart. He could do nothing right. Stewart was too bossy. He was too mean. He wasn't imaginative enough to utilize the awesome potential of his Power Ring (see Bruce Timm's comments about the "big green boxing gloves"). They hated him  :)

I don't get it. You're still talking about a small minority of loudmouth people. Essentially 'the comicbookstoreguy' from the simpsons who never likes ANYTHING but always watches/reads/orbuys it anyways. They didn't have their way. That's like saying the people who have been screaming to dump Donovan McNabb for the last 6 years have any REAL sway in how the team works. Nope, the owners of the Eagles know what they're doing.


While Timm and Tucker were absolutely committed to the John Stewart character, to Shayera Hol and to the plans they had for those two, they did make some concessions to the fan(atics). You who viewed the program regularly will remember how in later issues, John Stewart began to make more energy constructs with his Power Ring. Read Timm's remarks about fan reaction and his admissions that he and his team might have miscalculated on some aspects of their series in the publication "Modern Masters Volume Three: Bruce Timm" or for those of you who purchased the Justice League DVD set for Season One, take a listen to Timm and Tucker's comments in the "special features". You will see that the fan(atic) exercised a great deal of influence on the decisions made by the Justice League creative team.

Dude, you've got to be kidding me. I never said fans don't MATTER. I was saying that fans aren't going to substantially alter the plotting and plans of a cartoon show. You're weakening your won argument. If this small band out angry people was all that important than 1.) Stewart never would've been selected 2.) Green Arrow probably would've been a regular instead of Hawkgirl and 3.) the show would not have moved to a half hour format and it would STILL be on the air. Listening to fans who want more creative uses of the powering, and introducing that to the cartoon is the normal give and take between fans and a show. Fans wanted Ross and Rachel to finally tie the knot on the friends, but the writers knew that it would work better if they dragged it out. I still don't see your point.



Now yoda, you who are among Mr. Hudlin's staunchest critics, I believe you would describe yourself as a comic book fan(atic) and a Black Panther fan(atic) wouldn't you? You're behavior in this forum mirrors almost exactly that of the Justice League fan(atics) in forums dealing with their pet program  :D

Not sure where you're going, I'm going to need mapquest in a minute....


You expect the Panther fan(atic) to have a voice in making positive change (so-called postive change, that is), in this current run by highlighting Mr. Hudliin's supposed deficiencies in the hope that it might somehow "wake him up" and nudge him to write a Black Panther more to your liking don't you?

I will tell you the truth. My concerns about BP are mostly venting. I would be SHOCKED if ANYTHING I said on this board had a substantive impact on how this comic gets written or drawn. I would require a complete overhaul of certain things and I sincerely doubt that Reginald Hudlin gives a crap about what I think on MAJOR issues. Now, if for months fans started complaining that BP doesn't use enough Wakanda tech in his adventures I can see maybe down the road the artist or the writer finds more ways to bring in Wakanda tech but that's about as deep as GL using more creative constructs. It's a suggestion that's fan friendly and fairly easy to integrate without changing the overall goal the artist is hoping to create.


And you believe the "regular folks" held more sway than did the "fan(atics)" who were in Bruce Timm's grill all the time? Come on, man  ;)

Of COURSE they Did. Why do you think JLU is off the air? If fanatics had that much sway the show would still be on. At the end of the day the big money people at Warnerbrothers decided that the show was not delivering the demographic that they wanted (kids) to the places that they wanted (toystores.) All of the post 18 fans in the world don't mean squat if the 13 year olds would still rather have Madden 2005 than a 12 pack of JLU figures for their birthday. Fans may move a show, fans may interest creators but fans do NOT change what happens on a show. At least not fanatics. Do you think that the Spiderman movies have made all of this loot because 20% of the people who go to the theatres KNOW the significance of Amazing Fantasy # 15? Nope, it's because it got my old girlfriend, a valedictorian at Spelman, a Phd candidate in English who'd never looked at a comic book in her life, to actually GO to a COMIC book movie with me and say afterwards that 'it wasn't THAT bad'. I have no illusions about fan power when it comes to comic related movies and projects, or even the comics themselves. Hudlin doesn't care about what anybody thinks of his work really, until those numbers start to slide, THEN he may start to do some changes, until then who cares what I think?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 04, 2006, 10:54:10 am
:)

Fellas, let's look at the "fans" or "fanatics",  and the "regular folks".

Hockey Fan(atics) go to the games and support the sport.

Regular Folks don't seem to particularly care for Hockey. They don't go to the arenas to watch the games. When Hockey is televised, regular folks aren't watching. As a result, Hockey has become like Soccer or Bowling. Last fall, more television viewers watched the Women's Collegiate Softball Championship Series than watched Hockey's Stanley Cup Playoffs.

In this case, your view that the opinion of "regular folks" hold more sway over that of the "fan(atic) holds water.

It's kindof a spurious comparison. Sports are dependant on the DIEHARD fan because they're the ones (well, them and corporate sponsors) who actually buy seats and tickets. T.V. money is T.V. money, Hockey was losing money because they couldn't fill their seats, that was a problem LONG before the Television ratings started to tank. I'm not sure where you're going with this....



Now on the other hand, "regular folks" might enjoy watching American Idol on television. However, the American Idol fan(atic) watches the show and participates in the nature of the program. In this case, an American Idol contestant receives no assistance whatsoever from those "regular folks" who might have favored him or her, because the "regular folks" just watch the program. The American Idol fan(atic) will pick up a phone and vote for the Idol contestant of their choice  :) Now let me break it down for you.

Still not understanding.....


American Idol contestant Chuck Berry vs American Idol contestant Elvis Presley. Most viewers and most importantly, most fan(atics) of the program are of the European persuasion. Now we all know who would win the contest don't we? Huh Uh. Don't even try it yoda. I see you over there calculating and cogitating...trying to find someway to convince me that those fans would find some way to judge those two contestants on the merits of their talent rather than basing their judgement on certain other physical, psychological and socialogical characteristics :D  The fan(atics) would certainly vote for Elvis, The King of Rock and Roll  :D


Oh c'mon now :D I'm not a sophist. I know that Elvis would beat ouf Chuck Berry amongst Baby Boom white folks. But to be fair, 'merits of thier talent' is pretty subjective. We had this huge debate at a party I was at awhile back about who was a better singer Justin Timberlake or Usher. Even if we had someone in the room who was a trained singer I would've been a subjective assesment as to who was Better. Singing is a heart, thing, an emotional thing, so saying who's BETTER or WORSE is all a matter of personal choice. Still don't see where you're going with this....


Now with respect to Bruce Timm's Justice League program.

The fan(atics) of the program expressed an opinion that was probably shared by many other viewers. The "many other viewers" would be those fan(atics) who simply felt it wasn't worth their time to express their opinions in online forums discussing the program. The remainder of the viewing segment would be the "regular folks" who might have watched the program to blow off stress or share some time with their children.

Wait, so you're creating 3 different categories of viewers? Fanatics who express themselves on computer forums, the fans that likely agree with them that just don't go on forums and then 'regular folks' who don't care? That's MUCH more complicated (and I don't see how this relates to sports.) It's a MAJOR leap to assume that the people who scream and yell on message boards represent anybody other than themselves. To assume they're speaking for the masses of other 'fanatics' who just don't have the time to speak their equal complaints is fairly presumptuous. Like I said, a better example is GOP primary voters and those who voted for Bush in 2004. The passionate minority is just that: A passionate MINORITY, if they really represented what everyone else thought then they wouldn't be a minority. John McCain was more popular than George Bush in 2000 amongst ALL Americans GOP and Dems. However, the people who vote in primaries are HARD care right wingers and they preferred Bush. The point being, you cater to extremists to get where you want to get, then you moderate when you have to speak to a large audience. If JLU wanted to cater to fanboys only they'd have had Kyle Raynor or Hawkman but they knew that thier bread was going to be buttered by the LARGER fan population and THOSE people would want a team with more than one woman and a team with at least one minority character. At the end of the day, fanboys may get your show on the air (or get your movie to a good opending weekend) but what SUSTAINS your comicproduct is being able to get people to watch or consume your stuff that aren't die hard fans.
Fanboys didn't have THAT much sway - they can be listened to but they don't run the show, or control the show. You seem to be focusing on the college age to 30 somethings that watched JLU or taped it on a Saturday night. That was NOT the main demographic that Cartoon network wanted. That was a nice way to bring in Buick advertisers and such, but the fan base they SOUGHT was 6 to 14 year old kids who'd watch the cartoon and buy toys and merchandising....


If the fan(atics) had, had their way...and Bruce Timm and James Tucker were the shrinking violent types....("shrinking violent types"...what the hell??!!! :D :D :D :D make that shrinking violet types) , the Green Lantern, John Stewart would have been replaced straight away by Kyle Rayner and Hawkman would have replaced Hawkgirl. The fan(atics) seemed to dislike John Stewart as much as Bruce Timm liked him. Like those critics of Mr. Hudlin who find and pick at anything they consider problematic with his effort, the fan(atics) of the Justice League program railed against John Stewart. He could do nothing right. Stewart was too bossy. He was too mean. He wasn't imaginative enough to utilize the awesome potential of his Power Ring (see Bruce Timm's comments about the "big green boxing gloves"). They hated him  :)

I don't get it. You're still talking about a small minority of loudmouth people. Essentially 'the comicbookstoreguy' from the simpsons who never likes ANYTHING but always watches/reads/orbuys it anyways. They didn't have their way. That's like saying the people who have been screaming to dump Donovan McNabb for the last 6 years have any REAL sway in how the team works. Nope, the owners of the Eagles know what they're doing.


While Timm and Tucker were absolutely committed to the John Stewart character, to Shayera Hol and to the plans they had for those two, they did make some concessions to the fan(atics). You who viewed the program regularly will remember how in later issues, John Stewart began to make more energy constructs with his Power Ring. Read Timm's remarks about fan reaction and his admissions that he and his team might have miscalculated on some aspects of their series in the publication "Modern Masters Volume Three: Bruce Timm" or for those of you who purchased the Justice League DVD set for Season One, take a listen to Timm and Tucker's comments in the "special features". You will see that the fan(atic) exercised a great deal of influence on the decisions made by the Justice League creative team.

Dude, you've got to be kidding me. I never said fans don't MATTER. I was saying that fans aren't going to substantially alter the plotting and plans of a cartoon show. You're weakening your won argument. If this small band out angry people was all that important than 1.) Stewart never would've been selected 2.) Green Arrow probably would've been a regular instead of Hawkgirl and 3.) the show would not have moved to a half hour format and it would STILL be on the air. Listening to fans who want more creative uses of the powering, and introducing that to the cartoon is the normal give and take between fans and a show. Fans wanted Ross and Rachel to finally tie the knot on the friends, but the writers knew that it would work better if they dragged it out. I still don't see your point.



Now yoda, you who are among Mr. Hudlin's staunchest critics, I believe you would describe yourself as a comic book fan(atic) and a Black Panther fan(atic) wouldn't you? You're behavior in this forum mirrors almost exactly that of the Justice League fan(atics) in forums dealing with their pet program  :D

Not sure where you're going, I'm going to need mapquest in a minute....


You expect the Panther fan(atic) to have a voice in making positive change (so-called postive change, that is), in this current run by highlighting Mr. Hudliin's supposed deficiencies in the hope that it might somehow "wake him up" and nudge him to write a Black Panther more to your liking don't you?

I will tell you the truth. My concerns about BP are mostly venting. I would be SHOCKED if ANYTHING I said on this board had a substantive impact on how this comic gets written or drawn. I would require a complete overhaul of certain things and I sincerely doubt that Reginald Hudlin gives a crap about what I think on MAJOR issues. Now, if for months fans started complaining that BP doesn't use enough Wakanda tech in his adventures I can see maybe down the road the artist or the writer finds more ways to bring in Wakanda tech but that's about as deep as GL using more creative constructs. It's a suggestion that's fan friendly and fairly easy to integrate without changing the overall goal the artist is hoping to create.


And you believe the "regular folks" held more sway than did the "fan(atics)" who were in Bruce Timm's grill all the time? Come on, man  ;)

Of COURSE they Did. Why do you think JLU is off the air? If fanatics had that much sway the show would still be on. At the end of the day the big money people at Warnerbrothers decided that the show was not delivering the demographic that they wanted (kids) to the places that they wanted (toystores.) All of the post 18 fans in the world don't mean squat if the 13 year olds would still rather have Madden 2005 than a 12 pack of JLU figures for their birthday. Fans may move a show, fans may interest creators but fans do NOT change what happens on a show. At least not fanatics. Do you think that the Spiderman movies have made all of this loot because 20% of the people who go to the theatres KNOW the significance of Amazing Fantasy # 15? Nope, it's because it got my old girlfriend, a valedictorian at Spelman, a Phd candidate in English who'd never looked at a comic book in her life, to actually GO to a COMIC book movie with me and say afterwards that 'it wasn't THAT bad'. I have no illusions about fan power when it comes to comic related movies and projects, or even the comics themselves. Hudlin doesn't care about what anybody thinks of his work really, until those numbers start to slide, THEN he may start to do some changes, until then who cares what I think?


yoda  :D

Glad to see you're getting the handle of this "quote" function thing. Obviously in this post, you were still in the "getting the handle on it" phase.

I'm sure there are excellent points in there somewhere so it will be worth the effort to brave the chaos you have wrought here to find them.

Practice makes perfect buddy. I'm still trying to figure out the multiple quote function myself.

S.O.S. to anyone from sinjection and yoda....HELP US TO MASTER THE QUOTE FUNCTION.....please. Otherwise our botched attempts will continue to drive everyone crazy.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 04, 2006, 02:18:59 pm
Scrolling down from the reply box, one may(or may not) notice a synthesis version of previously made posts. Located on right of each is: "Insert Quote". That is the key to multiple quoting. Practice makes near perfect.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on August 04, 2006, 02:29:49 pm
Scrolling down from the reply box, one may(or may not) notice a synthesis version of previously made posts. Located on right of each is: "Insert Quote". That is the key to multiple quoting. Practice makes near perfect.

Always ask a young'en for help with computer stuff.   ;)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Toya on August 04, 2006, 02:40:30 pm
Scrolling down from the reply box, one may(or may not) notice a synthesis version of previously made posts. Located on right of each is: "Insert Quote". That is the key to multiple quoting. Practice makes near perfect.

Always ask a young'en for help with computer stuff.   ;)

 :) Funny, 'cause its the older folks who created the softwares.   
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Gooch on August 04, 2006, 02:59:10 pm
okay if this is about marvel, how did this thread get jacked to talk about dc, back on topic please ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on August 04, 2006, 07:10:29 pm
Scrolling down from the reply box, one may(or may not) notice a synthesis version of previously made posts. Located on right of each is: "Insert Quote". That is the key to multiple quoting. Practice makes near perfect.

Always ask a young'en for help with computer stuff.   ;)

 :) Funny, 'cause its the older folks who created the softwares.   

Only a few of us.   :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 04, 2006, 07:13:43 pm

Fellas, let's look at the "fans" or "fanatics",  and the "regular folks".


"Follow the yellow brick road."


Oh c'mon now :D I'm not a sophist.

"Follow the yellow brick road."


Now yoda, you who are among Mr. Hudlin's staunchest critics, I believe you would describe yourself as a comic book fan(atic) and a Black Panther fan(atic) wouldn't you? You're behavior in this forum mirrors almost exactly that of the Justice League fan(atics) in forums dealing with their pet program  :D


"Follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the yellow brick road".

GOSH DERN IT!!! I done practiced and I done practiced and I done practiced some! Now I think I done got it! Thank you for your assistance Toya  :)

Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Open palm on August 04, 2006, 08:42:01 pm
okay if this is about marvel, how did this thread get jacked to talk about dc, back on topic please ;D

Sure. What are we talking about here?  ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 04, 2006, 10:04:04 pm
okay if this is about marvel, how did this thread get jacked to talk about dc, back on topic please ;D

That's probably my fault. I mentioned John Stewart, the Green Lantern, then Chuck Berry, Elvis Presley and the American Idol t.v. show. After that, we just started gabbing about anything and everything. Back on topic then  :)

Sure. What are we talking about here?  ;D


hey i saw that the black panther wedding thread had started to morph into other discussions. so to keep up with the great kamikazi's rules of order plus i really would like to continue to discuss this issue lets create a special thread for this as well as carry over a thread that was in hudline 1.0. discuss the black avengers as well as post your rosters. mine


Cage: the powerhouse

the black panther: part leader and financier

photon: the power one and co leader

storm: the x factor ;) as well as co leader

warmachine: the tech guy

triathlon: the little guy but with a new costume

the falcon: on again off again. keep in with the persona that priest built witht the house of m, more snap wilson then sam wilson

new character: either a teen guy or gal who is a protege (sp) and the group has to pull out of trouble from time to time

post yours as well as continued discussion over the possibility of a black avengers.

uh oh. It appears I spoke too soon. Obviously, I need more practice with the multiple quote function  :D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 05, 2006, 05:12:46 am
u know what?
i want to see Truth, Patriot, Battlestar and Josiah X have a conversation together.
i dont know why... i just do.
i want all of them in a room...on a plane...etc... but i want some type of bonding to go on... just them listening and askin' wise ol' mr. bradley questions.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: JRCarter on August 05, 2006, 08:03:22 am
I submitted a question about "Black Avengers" for "Joe Fridays" on NEWSARAMA. Let's see if he answers it.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: DamonO on August 05, 2006, 09:14:21 am
Although I certainly would support a title featuring a team comprised of black heroes, I'd prefer that it not be called "black" anything.  But that's just me.

However, if Marvel did do such a title, expect to see torches and pitchforks in front of the Marvel offices soon after.  The haters would be out in full force.

There are some of our fellow fans that really hate to see any gathering of black heroes together.  I kid you not, right now there's a thread on the messageboard at comicbookresources.com discussing the wedding issue.  Some of those pencil dicks are actually complaining because Isaiah Bradley was at the wedding.  One moron complained because Blade was there.  Several months ago, after the Katrina issue came out, there were actually critics who complained because the Panther, Luke Cage, Blade and Brother Voodoo were featured in the story together.

"They only used them cause they're black" is the common complaint.  These are the same fine specimens of humanity who argue that the Panther and Storm were being married because they're black.  Apparently, when two or more black characters get together, its a cause for concern.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 05, 2006, 09:37:54 am
Although I certainly would support a title featuring a team comprised of black heroes, I'd prefer that it not be called "black" anything.  But that's just me.

However, if Marvel did do such a title, expect to see torches and pitchforks in front of the Marvel offices soon after.  The haters would be out in full force.

There are some of our fellow fans that really hate to see any gathering of black heroes together. 

Those "fellow fans" being those of the "greater comic book buying demographic" no doubt. Most of us are all too aware of just what the nature of their thoughts and reactions to a team of black superheroes might be. It wouldn't matter to many of them if that team of black superheroes had the word "black" in their team name or not. On the other hand, many of those same fans find nothing at all strange about there being no black characters in the animated program "League of Superheroes" to premier in the fall.

......., right now there's a thread on the messageboard at comicbookresources.com discussing the wedding issue. Some of those pencil dicks are actually complaining because Isaiah Bradley was at the wedding. One moron complained because Blade was there. Several months ago, after the Katrina issue came out, there were actually critics who complained because the Panther, Luke Cage, Blade and Brother Voodoo were featured in the story together.

"They only used them cause they're black" is the common complaint. These are the same fine specimens of humanity who argue that the Panther and Storm were being married because they're black. Apparently, when two or more black characters get together, its a cause for concern.

Well I'm sure you're not surprised by any of the reactions you've seen and are now relating to us Damon  :)

I've never known you to use words like "pencil dicks" before. The crap going down on those other boards must be very bad indeed. You know that in the opinion of many of those "fine specimens of humanity" you speak of, the character of Ororo is best utilized when she is being slobbered on by Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Dracula, Slipstream, Forge, any one of the assorted extra-dimensional whackos out there and in some extreme cases, a little lesbian action with Callisto and/or Yukio. They want to see Ororo portrayed as a scantily-clad, sexual plaything. The fact that she is now portrayed as the regal queen of Wakanda and its magnificent king, T'Challa, irks them to no end. Their wish is to have their complaints heard, read and acknowledged in some way by the powers that be at Marvel. They intend to boycott the Panther, hoping that their refusal to buy the publication will bring about the cancellation of the series, the return of T'Challa to obscurity, the erasure of his marriage to Ororo and the resumption of Ororo's role as sexual plaything for every mutant in the Marvel universe not named Bishop. No more black men for Ororo  ;)

It's good to be aware of the agenda of those who aren't simply comic book fans who happen to dislike a particular Marvel publication, but who are in fact, embittered, disaffected people with an axe to grind and an agenda. Hudlin's fine writing, the fine work that has been turned in by the book's illustrators and the outstanding contributions made by the staff of the publication, combined with our continued support of the Black Panther comic book will frustrate the agenda of the detractors.

And, oh yeah  :)

You wrote: "Apparently, when two or more black characters get together, its a cause for concern."

Which mirrors the sentiment of my remarks in an earlier post when I wrote that most fans dont' seem to have a problem when a group of white superheroes want to establish a team....just because they want to do it. Intitially, the Defenders formed because they were tricked into doing so by Loki and Dormammu. They decided to remain together because as the Valkyrie put it at that time, "they just want to defend." Now that reason would fly for those fans who comprise the "greater comic book buying demographic" and would probably satisfy the requirements of some of our fine forum members as well. But if a group of black superheroes decide that it would be a good thing to pool their assets and form a superhero team, it had better be for a damned good reason....such as the worst of tragedies.

This is still a truth of the society in which we live. When a group of 8 white men are gathered, most people might think business meeting, golf outing or some other wholesome and innocent activity. Those white men would have to be wearing sheets and hoods for anyone to think differently of them. When a group of 8 black men are gathered, the first thing that might come to mind is "street gang". 8 black men in one place can't be a good thing.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 06, 2006, 01:29:07 pm
The team's name will be BLACK.

Their first order of business is to apprehend Malice.
She's killin' up a bunch of white South Africans with strong ties to the President.
BLACK must stop her before an international incident occurs.

 8)

works for me...but help me tweak the idea, ok?
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 07, 2006, 07:20:49 am
The team's name will be BLACK.

Their first order of business is to apprehend Malice.
She's killin' up a bunch of white South Africans with strong ties to the President.
BLACK must stop her before an international incident occurs.

 8)

works for me...but help me tweak the idea, ok?

But where's the tragedy? Remember:

As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up.

Now, while the "common cause" and "nationality" reasons seem to be good enough for the X-Men and for Alpha Flight, apparently those reasons aren't sufficient when used to justify the assemblage of black superheroes into an organized team. So the only thing we're left with is tragedy. Where's the tragedy in Malice killing up a bunch of white South Africans with ties to the President? If those white South Africans also happen to be black-hating white supremacists, I can't see where Malice's killing them would be a tragedy. I'd say she'd be doing some black person somewhere a favor  :)

I guess you didn't like the story I came up with. The paralysis of Kevin "Kasper"(yuck) Cole must have been too much to take  :D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 07, 2006, 07:51:13 am
no, they're gonna be called The FUNKtastic Force!

*sigh*

can you image all the afros, peace pics and daishikis that team will be sportin'?

The Mighty Mastrmynd does it again!

The "Funktastic Force" probably wouldn't go in the Marvel Universe, but if BET's brand-spanking new animation department is looking for a concept around which to create an original program, "Funktastic Force" would be it. All the members of the team would be created by and property of BET.

I'd watch it, even if they did all sport afros, daishikis and peace picks. I'd support the program even if they wore bell-bottom flared trousers and 12" platform shoes  :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 07, 2006, 10:23:04 am
the mighty mastrmynd... hahahah...I like it!
:D

Sin, you're crazy.
And as far as tragedy is concerned, **** that!
Give the book 12 issues.  Allow us the opportunity to find an audience that tells a great story which features primarily underutilized black and minority heroes.
i mean daayam...Spider-girl got 100 issues for cryin' out loud.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on August 07, 2006, 11:07:47 am
^^^^ and thats just it. spider girl gets 100 issues despit selling low numbers because of it's "grass roots" following and the fact she is a female in a solo title. i look at it like this. reggie hudlin gives marvel the ability to say "hey not all of our readers are nerds and dont get laid." look at all of those black ass m/f over at the hudlin entertainment forum. while a lot of the fans of marvel live in their mothers basement and don't bath and have very little going on in their lives outside of continuity debates, those guys are true boss players for real. they get laid, did not get beat up in high school and are generally the sh*t" :)..............and you all do know im dead ass serious right. they know it uh hu they know it. don't hate. 8)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 07, 2006, 11:14:52 am
You're going to get those fanatic boys angry at us all over again b-zulu.

At least you didn't accuse them of masturbating to the Greg Land covers of the Emma Frost Limited Series. That would have meant war  :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: karaszero on August 07, 2006, 12:55:39 pm
The High Evolutionary has been experimenting on humanity again this time a large number of homeless people have been disappearring from the streets,the shelters have unusually high vacancies ( this has to begin in the winter for anyone to notice) our boy kaspar begins to investigate because he's formed a bond with a young man  (kind of like a big brother) and kaspar sees that things are suspicious also lesser known black heroes have disappeared as well all this having to do with specific DNA found only in Blacks. I don't know maybe they end up banding together to prevent the kidnappings   
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 07, 2006, 03:07:55 pm
^^^^ and thats just it. spider girl gets 100 issues despit selling low numbers because of it's "grass roots" following and the fact she is a female in a solo title. i look at it like this. reggie hudlin gives marvel the ability to say "hey not all of our readers are nerds and dont get laid." look at all of those black ass m/f over at the hudlin entertainment forum. while a lot of the fans of marvel live in their mothers basement and don't bath and have very little going on in their lives outside of continuity debates, those guys are true boss players for real. they get laid, did not get beat up in high school and are generally the sh*t" :)..............and you all do know im dead ass serious right. they know it uh hu they know it. don't hate. 8)


Just a note about Spider-girl.  She might sell in low numbers through Diamond, but the mass market, it sells well.  I think that's why it's coming back.  http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=76665 
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Static Froggy on August 07, 2006, 03:11:56 pm
You're going to get those fanatic boys angry at us all over again b-zulu.

At least you didn't accuse them of masturbating to the Greg Land covers of the Emma Frost Limited Series. That would have meant war  :)
lmao, I GOT MAH DONUTS READY FOR EM, BRING IT ON, im about to pull a ult hawkeye!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Rockscissorspaper on August 07, 2006, 03:49:55 pm
u know what?
i want to see Truth, Patriot, Battlestar and Josiah X have a conversation together.
i dont know why... i just do.
i want all of them in a room...on a plane...etc... but i want some type of bonding to go on... just them listening and askin' wise ol' mr. bradley questions.

Battlestar: "So, uh...what you use to shine your shield with?"

Patriot: "Turtle Wax."

Justice: "409."

Isaiah: "Huh?"

 ;)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: DamonO on August 07, 2006, 04:04:03 pm
You know, it'll be interesting to see if Justice (Josiah X), White Tiger or any of the cast of THE CREW turn up during Civil War.  To my knowledge, they've not been featured anywhere since the cancellation of the series.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Rockscissorspaper on August 07, 2006, 04:14:03 pm
Josiah was mentioned in Young Justice but that's about it...to my knowledge.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on August 07, 2006, 04:53:03 pm
that's not the conversation that i was lookin' for RSpaper.
hhahaha
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Francisco on August 07, 2006, 05:04:08 pm
I want to see Josiah X kicking KKK butt!! Come on Hudlin bring it on!! ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: sinjection on August 08, 2006, 05:03:55 am
You're going to get those fanatic boys angry at us all over again b-zulu.

At least you didn't accuse them of masturbating to the Greg Land covers of the Emma Frost Limited Series. That would have meant war  :)
lmao, I GOT MAH DONUTS READY FOR EM, BRING IT ON, im about to pull a ult hawkeye!!!!!!!!


Are you going to hit 'em with the donuts or are they for your eating pleasure?   :)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 01:02:24 am
Okay , I know this is Waaaayyy late but with all this talk about a "Mighty Black Avengers", have any of you seen this artwork put out about the "Brotherhood"? When this was released on a few other discussion boards folks got HYPED! Unfortunately it is just a concept but it is intriguing nonetheless. Check it out:

http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=16781
http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=15267
http://www.comicartcommunity.com/gallery/details.php?image_id=15066
http://www.almondink.com/gallery/brotherhood.html
http://www.almondink.com/gallery/brotherhood1.html
http://www.almondink.com/gallery/pham.html (scroll down)
http://www.almondink.com/gallery/brotherhood2.html

Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 10, 2007, 05:50:35 am
oh man...the Brotherhood is straight hotness!
:)

i love his drawings... and i missed Panther being in the Sal & Bob outfit.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 10, 2007, 06:42:09 am
oh man...the Brotherhood is straight hotness!
Cosign that.  Thanks for the links Evasive1 and welcome aboard.

I notice on the comments on one of the pages somebody got bothered about the all black team.  Some things never change. 
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Moose100 on January 10, 2007, 08:06:45 am
Ok this is total spec..but maybe we should call "The Mighty Black Avengers" the "New Warriors" vol. 4!!! I swear there i a black team spinning out of Civil War!! I swear I heard it somewhere.  Secondly I wonder what the blank was when Kevin Grevioux was told "Absolutely no ___________"....


Hmmmmmm ???  ;D
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: bluezulu on January 10, 2007, 08:53:57 am
nice pics bro.
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Mastrmynd on March 07, 2007, 09:53:02 am
 8)
Title: Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
Post by: Frostbite883 on March 07, 2007, 11:27:21 am
Josiah was mentioned in Young Justice but that's about it...to my knowledge.

I think you mean Young Avengers, RSpaper.