Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 05:17:40 am

Title: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 05:17:40 am
Hey folks. I registered a week or so ago and have been lurking, so figured I'd finally make a sort of introductory post before responding to others ones. Maybe this way when I respond people won't be like "Who are you?" :D

Anyway, I've been a fan of BP for a while, loved the Priest run but oddly missed his one issue (#27 I think) that I believe first established BP and Storm kinda sorta had a thing in the teens, followed by the kiss in their adulthood. I JUST read up on this on Priest's site, and it was awesome, I'll have to get it.

But what I'm getting at is I like the idea of BP and Storm together, and Hudlin seems to be doing a GREAT job of representing them both. He's definately given them both the respect to their characters and personalities they deserve, and they seem to strengthen each other. I know we'll never be able to pinpoint why exactly some fanboys don't like it; we can guess forever but since these fanboys aren't a hive mind we'll never truly know. But its kinda funny its some of them seem to think she belong with Forge or Wolverine over her, where in both cases she would be treated as secondary instead of primary with BP, yet act like it would be the other way around. My favorite quote with this ling of thing was something along the lines of expecting Storm to be cooking Wakandan grits in front of a vibranian stove or something.

Which brings me to the point of this post: does anyone know what will happen to Black Panther and Storm once Hudlin leaves? I hope he stays on for decades, but in the comics biz its inevitable. Fanboys aside I have no idea how Quasada feels about the pairing and if he'll let it stand once Mr. H leaves. I would hope so but you never know.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 11, 2006, 05:39:16 am
Most of us saw you when you walked through the door, friend  :)

The following is an excerpt from reply #103 of Jenn's thread.... ??? Blast my old age!!! --- well, I shouldn't fault my age, I should place blame where it lies: my awful memory. I've had that memory problem since I was just a young whip.  I've forgotten the title of Jenn's very excellent thread. I'm sorry Jenn  :D  Anyway, this is an excerpt from comments I contributed to that thread:

[Having seen the total "right-ness" between T'Challa and Ororo, viewing those illustrations of Forge with his arms and hands all over Ororo is enough to induce violent vomiting. I'd like to welcome the newest member to the HEF...I believe the name is "BPStorm4ever". The name is well-chosen and expresses my sentiments exactly for any RoLo, RoFo or mofo  , to see.]

And so again, let me be among the first to extend to you a very hearty welcome and wish for you a very enjoyable, entertaining and enlightening stay. You're among friends here  ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Wise Son on December 11, 2006, 06:25:42 am
When Reggie leaves? It's almost unpredictable, especially without knowing which writers may be lined up. However, one thing i the royal couple's favour is that Reggie's storylines have the full support of Marvel editorial, so there may be a few high-ups who wouldn't want a new writer to do a "It was all a dream / clone / someone punched reality" storyline as soon as they took over.

And welcome! I, also, noticed your commendable name hanging in the 'most recent member box'. ;D
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 11, 2006, 07:11:53 am
does anyone know what will happen to Black Panther and Storm once Hudlin leaves? I hope he stays on for decades, but in the comics biz its inevitable.

The Divorce of the Century, I'm sure.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 08:57:36 am
Most of us saw you when you walked through the door, friend  :)

The following is an excerpt from reply #103 of Jenn's thread.... ??? Blast my old age!!! --- well, I shouldn't fault my age, I should place blame where it lies: my awful memory. I've had that memory problem since I was just a young whip.  I've forgotten the title of Jenn's very excellent thread. I'm sorry Jenn  :D  Anyway, this is an excerpt from comments I contributed to that thread:

[Having seen the total "right-ness" between T'Challa and Ororo, viewing those illustrations of Forge with his arms and hands all over Ororo is enough to induce violent vomiting. I'd like to welcome the newest member to the HEF...I believe the name is "BPStorm4ever". The name is well-chosen and expresses my sentiments exactly for any RoLo, RoFo or mofo  , to see.]

Ha! Cool. I'll have to find that thread and respond in it. :)

Quote
And so again, let me be among the first to extend to you a very hearty welcome and wish for you a very enjoyable, entertaining and enlightening stay. You're among friends here  ;).]

Emphasize mine, cause...wow, I've seen first hand fanboys acting like, well, internet goon squads going after folks who even halfway like this union. But it is appreciated and I see that, thanks.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 09:03:50 am
When Reggie leaves? It's almost unpredictable, especially without knowing which writers may be lined up. However, one thing i the royal couple's favour is that Reggie's storylines have the full support of Marvel editorial, so there may be a few high-ups who wouldn't want a new writer to do a "It was all a dream / clone / someone punched reality" storyline as soon as they took over.

lol O why did DC do that with Superboy Prime. That's gonna be a joke for many years to come...

Anyway, I was hoping they'd have the full support of editorial like you said, after all it wouldn't be happening without their permission/blessing, but I'm not sure how sales are doing. I know Civil War has given it a spike, but I really hope Marvel is with this through thick and thin. I think if they stick to it it'll pay off in the long run.

Quote
And welcome! I, also, noticed your commendable name hanging in the 'most recent member box'. ;D

Thanks. What's funny is that its the first thing that came to mind when I registered here. THE FIRST THING. I really like the idea of this union, but the idea would be nothing without a good writer bringing it to fruition. Reginald Hudlin has done that in spade. I read a lot of writers I like, but he continually impresses me with how he's writing Storm and Black Panther. Someone elsewhere put it best: he's basically treating them as an entity unto themselves, not a wife deferring to her husband or vice versa. And he's making them converse and act like a married couple, and their dialogue is how I would expect a king and queen to talk. Sorry, just really enjoying it.

And I swear I must have read that arc with Blade in it everyday for a month straight. I loved how he was drawn just like Wesley Snipes.  8)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: bluezulu on December 11, 2006, 09:04:25 am
I will chime in with everyone else in welcome you to the hef forums. I truly believe that Qusada wants a renaissance with Marvel and with the coming of McDuffie to the f/f we will move beyond the one black writer and one black book mentality. Parker and Watson have been married forever now and the richards have been together for a while as well so it's conceivable to give this couple a few years together. But just as the coming of these two was a good story I wouldn't mind reading and being a part of a break up if it indeed happens. Such things are a part of the real world which marvel has always tried to resemble. Now that we are where we are at however I hope Marvel stick to their guns and keep this thing going.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 09:06:16 am
does anyone know what will happen to Black Panther and Storm once Hudlin leaves? I hope he stays on for decades, but in the comics biz its inevitable.

The Divorce of the Century, I'm sure.

That would be my worse fear realized. I like Storm better as queen of Wakanda and with a man who truly loves, respects, and worships her, and she would kinda sort maybe get that with Forge. Not really with Wolverine since he's REALLY in love with Jean Grey.  ::) That, and..well, I'm sorry, but while I loved her being one of the commanders of the X-Men teams, I believe she could potentially get more done as queen of Wakanda. But that's just me. Whether that will ever be realized, I don't know.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 09:11:24 am
I will chime in with everyone else in welcome you to the hef forums. I truly believe that Qusada wants a renaissance with Marvel and with the coming of McDuffie to the f/f we will move beyond the one black writer and one black book mentality. Parker and Watson have been married forever now and the richards have been together for a while as well so it's conceivable to give this couple a few years together. But just as the coming of these two was a good story I wouldn't mind reading and being a part of a break up if it indeed happens. Such things are a part of the real world which marvel has always tried to resemble. Now that we are where we are at however I hope Marvel stick to their guns and keep this thing going.

I hear you (didn't know about McDuffie, that's gonna be cool). I'm just a worry wart, especially when it comes to things I'm really enjoying getting yanked away (best example: the Angel TV series, though some would say it ended on a high, and I do, technically, agree).

As for the breakup...while you have a point, there aren't many black couples that are...ideals, I guess you could say. I mean, that's pretty much it. If Peter and Mary Jane broke up, for instance, we'd still have Reed and Sue, we'd still have Lois and Clark, heck even Wally and Linda. I'm sure there's more, but I'm talking about comics in general, not just Marvel or DC. If BP and Storm break up, that's gonna be it for a black couple for a long long time I fear.

But this is all guesswork, and like I said, I'm a worrywart. It could never happen, and if it does it could be handled in a great manner.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 11, 2006, 10:27:47 am
Not really with Wolverine since he's REALLY in love with Jean Grey.  ::)

How anyone could love Storm being Jean Grey's sloppy seconds, I'll never know.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Mastrmynd on December 11, 2006, 10:31:48 am
welcome to the family!
:)

glad u didn't flame the place.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: PantherNotCarolina on December 11, 2006, 10:56:56 am
I'm guessing some white writer's going to come in and have them split up for some contrived reason!  Probably have Storm go back to being X-Men's fodder and Black Panther running through forrests like a friggin' savage!  I'm playing(or maybe I'm not...)

I don't get why BP and Storm can't be a Reed and Sue couple and stay together forever.  Storm is not a damn supporting character.  She's a queen now.  She can now do more for her people than she could with the X-Men.  Prof. Xavier said this his damn self. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 11, 2006, 11:17:48 am
I don't get why BP and Storm can't be a Reed and Sue couple and stay together forever. 


And

Quote
Storm is not a damn supporting character.  She's a queen now.  She can now do more for her people than she could with the X-Men.  Prof. Xavier said this his damn self. 

All I've been saying. She's not a supporting character, or some woman in waiting for a fanfic pairing either.
You said it a lot better and a lot simpler than I could have.  8)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Wise Son on December 12, 2006, 03:25:38 am
Anyway, I was hoping they'd have the full support of editorial like you said, after all it wouldn't be happening without their permission/blessing, but I'm not sure how sales are doing. I know Civil War has given it a spike, but I really hope Marvel is with this through thick and thin. I think if they stick to it it'll pay off in the long run.
Well, we've got a few people on here that furnish us with sales numbers on a pretty regular basis, so we should know pretty soon. Despite the hating, it seems to stay at around or just above the levels the Priest run was getting at the same point, which may not be the greatest news, but reviews and such seem to be improving all the time, and the sheer rage caused by BP/Storm has maybe fallen a little, so it could still keep going.
I read a lot of writers I like, but he continually impresses me with how he's writing Storm and Black Panther. Someone elsewhere put it best: he's basically treating them as an entity unto themselves, not a wife deferring to her husband or vice versa. And he's making them converse and act like a married couple, and their dialogue is how I would expect a king and queen to talk. Sorry, just really enjoying it.
Yeah, and I liked their teamwork (with the Dora Milajae) and discussion in the latest issue, with the crowd, the Sentinel and IM. With his 2 other 'kinda-wives' they make a really weird and formidable family unit. Like others have said, I'm looking forward to Shuri being part of this as well.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Mastrmynd on December 12, 2006, 05:29:19 am
1. BP and Storm have a very realistic relationship.  I smile every time and their sly comments or cute interactions.
MORE STORM BOOTY PLease!!

2. Do the anti-panther ppl want a whole issue focused around Storm?  (hmm... not a bad idea... we can see how she gets along with her mother, the dora milaje and an invasion by Princess Zarda...hahaahha... cool be a good issue.  I see a good fun issue.)
But seriously, can BP and Storm get thru Civil War before they nut up.  I mean, dayam... their honeymoon tour was cut short.. let these folx work on the kinks of their unique relationship.  once teh civil war is over, we can see her do her queenly duties.
ya feel me?

3. Storm can't be an x-man becuz she isn't registered and at this rate, i dont think she will.  This shoot first, ask questions later administration wont give her a 2nd chance now.

4. I love Hudlin's BP.  Keep it up.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on December 12, 2006, 07:55:00 am
Not really with Wolverine since he's REALLY in love with Jean Grey.  ::)

How anyone could love Storm being Jean Grey's sloppy seconds, I'll never know.


But why wolverine/storm?  The main answer is Incest.  X-comics suffer from the 90210 mentality, where eventually everyone ends up dating everyone from the show.  Just wait, if Storm remained in the X-men, sooner or later she and Colossus would have gotten around to each other.   To this board, it's a good thing that the Editor in Chief didn't like it, because the writers did, but it was nixed by J. Q. or the previous editor.  I don't remember which.  If that editor didn't step in, who knows what would have happened.

(I don't remember what I thought about Storm/Wolvie relationship, but I think I put it down as a relationship of proximity, not "chemistry".  But it couldn't last.  Wolvie is too much of a player, except with Mariko.)

But I think the biggest barrier to BP and STorm's long term relationship is the the marketing department.  As long as Storm is considered X-Men property, and BP is non-X-men/mutant property, there is always the potential that the marketing dept will pull strings.  This is where the FF could be the best thing for Storm.  If Storm could be sucessfully moved to non-mutant side of Marvel, then the marriage has a better chance of sucess. (or BP joins the mutant side of things.)
Actually, Storm on the AVengers with BP would probably be the best option.  if Storm could be identified as an Avenger First, it would secure things better.

Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 18, 2006, 12:05:53 pm
Just had a horrible thought...

Now, I don't know how much of the online community make up the people who read comics, whether its significant or not...but if sales are any indication, is it possible if Marvel wants to end this marriage to appease fans who want Storm backburned to hell in X-Men yet again...maybe divorce isn't what they had in mind...

Everytime I hear one of these complaints about Storm and BP, its coupled with intense hatred for Black Panther. Is it possible if Marvel ever wants to end the marriage, they'd end it by making Storm a widow? Its not a good time to be a black hero in comics these days, and maybe Marvel feels having just two (Falcon and Luke Cage) is enough? I bet these same people hating on this relationship would jump for joy and buy multiple copies of Black Panther buying it. Someone they hated would be dead, someone they love (probably the object of some wish fulfilment fantasies) would be free to date Wolverine/Forge/whomever not black, and she'd be, again, backburned in X-Men forever and ever amen.

*shudders*
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 18, 2006, 08:20:19 pm
Panther has been around since 1966. Marvel's not going to listen to some snot-nosed white boys to THAT extent.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 18, 2006, 08:43:02 pm
Hope you're right, Jenn. Hope you're right. Just got a funny feeling is all.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: lovecrafty on December 19, 2006, 01:28:43 am
The people who want Wolverine/Storm are probably not BP readers, but readers of the X-Titles, and thus living in their own little myopic world.  X-Fans tend to be like that.  The people who are shouting for Storm/Forge are just stuck in the eighties.  I mean seriously, that's old news.

I think it's highly unlikely that anyone will split Storm and BP up.  The Wolverine/Storm pairing was very teneuous and hadn't really had time to "stick", and fans will get over it eventually (and seriously, if they tried to expand that out of whatever x-title it was going on in to the x-universe at large, Wolvie fans would hit the roof -- they'd never accept Wolverine settling down, he's just not the marriagable type).

It's more likely that Storm will simply dissappear from the X-universe, and will become a part of the Black Panther mythos, which could be considered a subset of the Avengers mythos or the Fantastic Four mythos (more the former, less the later).  She never really fit in with the rest of the x-universe -- the whole African goddess angle never really blended well with the more sci-fi tone of X-Men, and most writers never knew what to do with her, which lead to the impression that she lacks personality.  Or they did weird things like have her go punk (does anyone actually understand what the heck that was about?).

I haven't been reading BP, but I've seen a bunch of scans of the issues leading up to the wedding, and Hudlin's Storm finally doesn't seem like she's in the wrong comic.  It still seems a bit gimmicky (a longer engagement would have made it seem less like an attempt to boost sales), but it is a good pairing and has staying power.  I expect it will last for sometime, unless some later writer decides to kill Storm off to "motivate" BP (don't let John Byrne anywhere near the title!).
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Wise Son on December 19, 2006, 01:46:02 am
Hope you're right, Jenn. Hope you're right. Just got a funny feeling is all.
Try not to over-estimate the strength of online fandom. We tend to be the more committed minority, and not necessarily the people the companies pay attention to. Therefore, the majority of BP fans are not as deeply into it as the people on the HEF, and the majority of non-fans are nowhere near as rabid as the online haters. I hope this helps settle your nerves a bit.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Wise Son on December 19, 2006, 01:48:46 am
unless some later writer decides to kill Storm off to "motivate" BP (don't let John Byrne anywhere near the title!).
Christ, no! I'm picturing a cover with Man-Ape holding Storm by the throat (the 'Byrne-Hold'), while Panther lies unconscious at his feet. :P
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Kristopher on December 19, 2006, 11:39:15 am
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/krstoo/StormReaction.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 12:32:17 pm
BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JLI Jesse on December 19, 2006, 01:18:53 pm
It's more likely that Storm will simply dissappear from the X-universe, and will become a part of the Black Panther mythos, which could be considered a subset of the Avengers mythos or the Fantastic Four mythos (more the former, less the later).

See, I disagree.  If we could look 10 years into the future, we would see Storm as a member of the X-Men and the marriage as a footnote.  I don't necessarily want that but the majority of the public (through movies and cartoons) want Storm as an X-Man.  I kind believe this to be a temporary story.  Panther has never had a book for an extended period of time.  Priest's book eventually went away, and again, while I don't want it, this book will not last 10 years.  As soon as the book is canceled (if not sooner), Storm and BP will be get a divorce, and she'll be back on the X-Men.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Kristopher on December 19, 2006, 01:21:33 pm
Many(white)readers seem more comfortable with black characters who act as if race does not matter (pre Hudlin Panther & Storm), and (black) writers who not "rub their noses" in so-called “racial guilt”. Many white readers just go crazy over stuff like that.

In American reality, colorblindness is not colorblindness; it's the world the way many whites see it, the way they want to see it, and they don't want to talk about race. They don't want race to be relevant, so they're going to act as though it isn't relevant, and when you keep telling them it is relevant, they're going to call you the racists. They're going to say you're playing the race card. They're going to call you the monster for making them confront the monstrosity that is racism in American society.

America is post-apartheid society, and I don't mean that as a time. It's not a temporal statement; it's a substantive description of who we are.

We are a society that has been structured from top to bottom by race. You don't get beyond that by deciding not to talk about it anymore. It will always come back; it will always reassert itself over and over again. Thank God Hudlin has the BALLS to bring up things that have been overlooked in comics.

With that, if Hudlin's writing is not someone's cup of tea, they should just move on.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 01:26:15 pm
Kristopher, please follow me to this candlelit room with the soundproof padded walls. Yes, right this way. Watch your step, now. This? Oh, I always greet new HEFfas buck-ass nekkid with a bottle of baby oil in my hand.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: stanleyballard on December 19, 2006, 02:41:50 pm
The future of BP & Storm is also in the hands of a popular artist coming onto this book to make it a best seller...that is one ingredient that catapults any comic book to the top...great writing and equally great art by a known penciller/inker...someone like JRJR returning would boost sales signifigantly...or a Jim Lee or John Byrne or any popular name...this is one element that would ensure BP for a very long time to come. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 19, 2006, 05:41:48 pm
It's more likely that Storm will simply dissappear from the X-universe, and will become a part of the Black Panther mythos, which could be considered a subset of the Avengers mythos or the Fantastic Four mythos (more the former, less the later).

See, I disagree.  If we could look 10 years into the future, we would see Storm as a member of the X-Men and the marriage as a footnote.  I don't necessarily want that but the majority of the public (through movies and cartoons) want Storm as an X-Man.  I kind believe this to be a temporary story.  Panther has never had a book for an extended period of time.  Priest's book eventually went away, and again, while I don't want it, this book will not last 10 years.  As soon as the book is canceled (if not sooner), Storm and BP will be get a divorce, and she'll be back on the X-Men.

See, that's what I'm getting at, and part of my fears. Storm is never going anywhere, period. She'll never die or get killed off. Black Panther, on the other hand, he's the one who keeps getting his book cancelled. He's like Marvel's version of Aquaman in that respect. What if this is the last straw, and Marvel wants to try and build him up one more time, and if it fails this time (get cancelled), they'll end the marriage with Panther's death.

Also, if what Kristopher says is even half true, certain readers will never be comfortable with Black Panther, and I wonder and fear those certain readers outnumber the ones who love Black Panther, leading to his inevitable demise. Again, it has NOT been a good time to be a black male superhero lately, both in Marvel AND DC...
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on December 19, 2006, 06:16:36 pm
Kristopher, please follow me to this candlelit room with the soundproof padded walls. Yes, right this way. Watch your step, now. This? Oh, I always greet new HEFfas buck-ass nekkid with a bottle of baby oil in my hand.
That's just Jenn's demented unique way of saying welcome.  Don't be skurred. 

That's a hell of a one-two posting on this thread.  Welcome aboard. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 07:24:29 pm
See, that's what I'm getting at, and part of my fears. Storm is never going anywhere, period. She'll never die or get killed off. Black Panther, on the other hand, he's the one who keeps getting his book cancelled. He's like Marvel's version of Aquaman in that respect. What if this is the last straw, and Marvel wants to try and build him up one more time, and if it fails this time (get cancelled), they'll end the marriage with Panther's death.

Please. That's what the crackabrats want you to believe. Nobody was talking about Storm until now. Now they are. They kill off Storm's husband, and STORM will be the footnote. What did Marvel have planned for her until now? NOTHING. As long as Storm is the Queen of Wakanda, there is talk. T'Challa ain't dying no time soon. Remember, these same idiots swore that we weren't going to have a wedding either, but Storm is sho nuff the Queen of Wakanda, right? And hell, they JUST entered the Civil War. Our boy is going to be just fine.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 19, 2006, 07:40:35 pm
See, that's what I'm getting at, and part of my fears. Storm is never going anywhere, period. She'll never die or get killed off. Black Panther, on the other hand, he's the one who keeps getting his book cancelled. He's like Marvel's version of Aquaman in that respect. What if this is the last straw, and Marvel wants to try and build him up one more time, and if it fails this time (get cancelled), they'll end the marriage with Panther's death.

Please. That's what the fancrackas want you to believe. Nobody was talking about Storm until now. Now they are. They kill off Storm's husband, and STORM will be the footnote. What did Marvel have planned for her until now? NOTHING. As long as Storm is the Queen of Wakanda, there is talk. T'Challa ain't dying no time soon.

Again, hope you're right. But allow me to add to what you just said and switch from my gloom and doom:

Its been a while now (almost a decade? 7 years at least?) since DC vs Marvel. And who did they match up Wonder Woman with? That's right, Storm. DC's most recognizable female hero was matched up with Storm who is, arguably, Marvel's most recognizable female hero. And since it was, essentially, a fan wank (sorry, but it was, and I proudly admit I enjoyed the series), who did the fans pick to win? That's right, Storm. I'm not saying what's happening now was bourne out of that, I'm saying this is possibly a natural evolution for a character fans have always taken interest in. She CAN get more done as queen, or as a member of the FF, or as an Avenger. I'd even argue even if the marriage is ended somehow, she STILL don't return to the X-Men. She been ready for the big leauges for a long time now, and its about time someone realized it.

You say no one was talking about Storm. I'm sure Marvel noticed this and figured that wasn't right. Here's someone without too convoluted a backstory (Jean Grey), in movies, in video games...the popularity is there, it just needed that extra push. This is it. Marvel seems to believe in Storm, and believe in Black Panther (hence his book continuously getting restarted after cancellation), so I hope they keep that belief, that faith if his book ends and keep those two together.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JLI Jesse on December 19, 2006, 08:13:00 pm
Please. That's what the crackabrats want you to believe. Nobody was talking about Storm until now. Now they are. They kill off Storm's husband, and STORM will be the footnote. What did Marvel have planned for her until now? NOTHING. As long as Storm is the Queen of Wakanda, there is talk. T'Challa ain't dying no time soon. Remember, these same idiots swore that we weren't going to have a wedding either, but Storm is sho nuff the Queen of Wakanda, right? And hell, they JUST entered the Civil War. Our boy is going to be just fine.

First off, I'd like to add one more time that I find the use of the word cracka (or in this case crackabrat) inappropriate because it makes me feel like an outsider on this board, a place where I'd like to feel welcome.

On to the point, I have to disagree that nobody was talking about Storm until now.  She's led the X-Men for 25 years and been featured in 3 movies, several cartoons, video games, and action figures.  To most people off the street and in the comic world, Storm is an x-man.  Now on this board, I understand why people think of her as BP's wife...most people here are BP fans.  But BP has never had the visibility that he is getting now, because they have married him to such a famous and successful character.  If the marriage were to end, she'd go back to be a successful member of the x-men, just as she has been for 30 years.  If BP is canceled, he'll be relegated to popping up in the Avengers now and then and around big events such as civil war.  I don't want that to be true, but judging by history, that would seem to be the case.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 08:16:00 pm
First off, I'd like to add one more time that I find the use of the word cracka (or in this case crackabrat) inappropriate because it makes me feel like an outsider on this board, a place where I'd like to feel welcome.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/rattlerbrat82/foldhands.jpg)

Here's someone without too convoluted a backstory (Jean Grey), in movies, in video games...the popularity is there, it just needed that extra push. This is it.


Exactly! And in doing so, they've put Storm away from the rest - that is, she has a love, but it's not Wolverine, Gambit, etc. She has a story, but it doesn't interfere with "the big sh*t". I don't see any reason why they would put an end to this - and if they did, it certainly wouldn't put Storm back on the front lines in the X-Men, which makes the crackabrats' crying to be so silly. As I said elsewhere, their crying really has very little to do with Storm herself.

Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JLI Jesse on December 19, 2006, 08:32:00 pm
First off, I'd like to add one more time that I find the use of the word cracka (or in this case crackabrat) inappropriate because it makes me feel like an outsider on this board, a place where I'd like to feel welcome.


([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v377/rattlerbrat82/foldhands.jpg[/url])


huh?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 08:37:58 pm
Why are you more insulted by me saying "crackabrats" then you were when Guido was calling so many of us "niggers" and "gorillas", newguy? You've been here since September, so you can't lie and say that you weren't here when that was all going down. Where was your sense of outrage then? Since you didn't give a sh*t that I was being called a n*gger bitch, tell me why I should give a sh*t that you don't like me saying 'crackabrat'. And then watch me NOT F*CKING CARE about what your answer is, no matter what it is. I've had my fill of white people this week, so don't think for two minutes that I give a good goddamn if you feel welcome here or not. The fact that you feel that you should feel welcome here 24/7 - a place that is overwhelmingly black - says a whole lot about you as it is. (DEAR GOD, WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR WHITE PEOPLE!?!?!?)

Now, someone will come along shortly and pat your lily white ass (because you apparently need it) and I'll get a smack on the wrist for being mean to you, and that's just fine with me. But let me personally say, from me to you? SLAG OFF.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JLI Jesse on December 19, 2006, 08:49:44 pm
Why are you more insulted by me saying "crackabrats" then you were when Guido was calling so many of us "niggers" and "gorillas", newguy? You've been here since September, so you can't lie and say that you weren't here when that was all going down. Where was your sense of outrage then?

He was obviously a jerk and I had read many posts that he had written.  There was no reasoning with him.  When people got pissed off, it only added more fuel to the fire.  I chose to ignore him because he seemed to be beyond redemption.  You, for the most part, seemed to be intelligent and rational.  So when I see you use derogatory terms, its something I feel I should question.  If “guido” pissed you off so much, then why wouldn’t you do your best to make sure others don’t feel the pain and/or anger you felt?

I've had my fill of white people this week, so don't think for two minutes that I give a good goddamn if you feel welcome here or not. The fact that you feel that you should feel welcome here 24/7 says a whole lot about you as it is. Now, someone will come along shortly and pat your lily white ass (because you apparently need it) and I'll get a smack on the wrist for being mean to you, and that's just fine with me. But SLAG OFF.

Apparently the part I wrote about being rational was wrong.  I've done nothing to you, though I am not sure what "white people" have done to you this week.  Is there a reason I shouldn't feel welcome here 24/7?  Does the fact that I am white make me an outsider here for some reason?  I thought this was a forum to share thoughts and ideas on BP, comics as a whole, and other topics.  But hell, what do I know, I'm just a cracka sitting on my lily white ass.  Silly of me for wanting the same respect I give you. 

Consider me slagged off.

Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JRCarter on December 19, 2006, 08:51:00 pm
Can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 19, 2006, 08:54:38 pm
If “guido” pissed you off so much, then why wouldn’t you do your best to make sure others don’t feel the pain and/or anger you felt?

Why should I care if you do or don't? You sat on your ass and had nothing to say when it was all going down. Now I'm going to offer you the same courtesy.

Quote
Is there a reason I shouldn't feel welcome here 24/7?  Does the fact that I am white make me an outsider here for some reason?

Not an outsider, but certainly a minority. I'm not going to change what I say just because some white people have discovered HEF. f*ck y'all. Mind you, I'm only speaking for ME, and it would take someone like you to equate MY thoughts with the thoughts of everyone here.

Quote
I thought this was a forum to share thoughts and ideas on BP, comics as a whole, and other topics.  But hell, what do I know, I'm just a cracka sitting on my lily white ass.

No, you're a cracka (as you've labeled yourself; I'm just agreeing with you) who seems to want to feel like a special snowflake, when you had NOTHING to say when we were being assaulted. In other words, it's only a bad thing when YOU are the one offended.

Can't we all just get along?

We're getting along just fine. I'm no different this week than I was last week. If it makes the poor widdle white boy cry, then tough.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Kristopher on December 20, 2006, 04:33:09 am
Kristopher, please follow me to this candlelit room with the soundproof padded walls. Yes, right this way. Watch your step, now. This? Oh, I always greet new HEFfas buck-ass nekkid with a bottle of baby oil in my hand.

 :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 20, 2006, 05:40:27 am
What the....???!!!! :o

Many(white)readers seem more comfortable with black characters who act as if race does not matter (pre Hudlin Panther & Storm), and (black) writers who not "rub their noses" in so-called “racial guilt”. Many white readers just go crazy over stuff like that.

In American reality, colorblindness is not colorblindness; it's the world the way many whites see it, the way they want to see it, and they don't want to talk about race. They don't want race to be relevant, so they're going to act as though it isn't relevant, and when you keep telling them it is relevant, they're going to call you the racists. They're going to say you're playing the race card. They're going to call you the monster for making them confront the monstrosity that is racism in American society.

America is post-apartheid society, and I don't mean that as a time. It's not a temporal statement; it's a substantive description of who we are.

We are a society that has been structured from top to bottom by race. You don't get beyond that by deciding not to talk about it anymore. It will always come back; it will always reassert itself over and over again. Thank God Hudlin has the BALLS to bring up things that have been overlooked in comics.

With that, if Hudlin's writing is not someone's cup of tea, they should just move on.

Outstanding!  Welcome, Kristopher!  :D

Many readers from the larger comicbook-buying demographic, a surprising number of black comic book readers, and many representing the "other" racial category seem to be more comfortable with black characters (especially), but hispanic and Asian characters also, who act as if race doesn't matter, a "Rainbow Coalition of Comfortable Readers", if you will.

 Suggest that if the White Tiger character appears in an ongoing series, that the writer should introduce a male Puerto Rican character as her potential love interest rather than following the well-trodden road of pairing the beautiful ethnic/racial character with the closest available white male character - in the White Tigers' case, Daredevil - and just watch how many ways that "Rainbow Coalition of Comfortable Readers" can find to call you a racist. It seems there are many "comfortable readers" who believe that although her flesh is black, that Ororo is NOT in actuality, a black woman. She is instead, a hodepodge...a Calico Quilt of all humanity stitched in one body. It doesn't matter that the body (Ororo), emerged from the body of a black woman after having been planted there by her loving, black husband.

I bore our HEF mates now, but it bears repeating. Especially in light of this very excellent observation which I have tried to make many times, but not nearly as eloquently as you have done: In American reality, colorblindness is not colorblindness; it's the world the way many whites see it, the way they want to see it, and they don't want to talk about race. They don't want race to be relevant, so they're going to act as though it isn't relevant, and when you keep telling them it is relevant, they're going to call you the racists.  

Years ago, during the height of the success of his television series "THE COSBY SHOW", Bill Cosby appeared on the Oprah Show to discuss the show and its success with Oprah and her studio audience. A well-meaning (and I have to think she was well-meaning), white lady remarked that when she watched Cosby's show that she "didn't see color". Apparently, her intention was to relate that when she saw the "Huxtable" family interacting with one another, she simply saw other "human beings". Cosby replied to the lady saying to her that when she or anyone else watched his show, that they HAD to see color. There simply wasn't any other way around it. The Huxtables were black people. It was a black family. The viewer had to see a black family. People need to get over this notion that the recognition of racial, ethnic, cultural and physical differences are bad things that divide us. "Colorblindness" is like the mother advising a child to close their eyes and hold their noses when taking medicine that they don't like.

Again, I enjoyed reading your post and look forward to reading more in the future.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Pantherfan on December 20, 2006, 06:08:24 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 08:33:10 am
Okay, just to give a quick fact, Daredevil isn't a love interest for White Tiger.  The Daredevil in the White Tiger mini is, in fact, Iron Fist, and she calls him Tio on several occasions.  Tio is Spanish word for Uncle.  Danny Rand is a very close member of her family, and has known her since she was a small child.  I really wish people would stop saying that he's a love interest for her. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: supreme illuminati on December 20, 2006, 09:18:40 am
Okay, just to give a quick fact, Daredevil isn't a love interest for White Tiger.  The Daredevil in the White Tiger mini is, in fact, Iron Fist, and she calls him Tio on several occasions.  Tio is Spanish word for Uncle.  Danny Rand is a very close member of her family, and has known her since she was a small child.  I really wish people would stop saying that he's a love interest for her. 

Being Black with very strong African and Latin cultural roots and also being a lifelong adherent of the martial arts,I tried to purchase this mini,but my local comics shop kept telling me that they were sold out.I asked if they were getting more,but they told me that they probably weren't becasue the series isn't selling well and that the story is lame.That's a quote."The story is lame."

Is the story lame?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 20, 2006, 10:01:11 am
Friends, some clarification.

To the best of my knowledge, I never said that Daredevil was the love interest of the White Tiger. I don't remember anyone else ever saying that Daredevil was the love interest of the White Tiger. I haven't (and will not), purchase any of the issues of this mini series because of what I've seen in previews and the like. So far, it doesn't look like a book I'd be interested in purchasing although, I very much like the White Tiger character herself.

Now, what I have said is that the writer of this character should not "take the easy way out" and pair her with an established white male superhero character or another civilian white male character created for that specific purpose. I believe that whoever writes a potential ongoing series for the character should create for her, a male interest who is Puerto Rican. I mentioned Daredevil because, other than Spider-Man, he seems to be constantly at the Tiger's side or following her around. I mentioned on the CBR, that I wasn't sure WHO Daredevil was at this time. When I suggested in another CBR thread - the Luke Cage ongoing rumor thread - that Danny Rand might still be playing Daredevil and as that might be the case, there would be no need to team Cage with Iron Fist, another poster informed me that Danny Rand had indeed returned to his Iron Fist persona. I have no particular interest in Daredevil or Iron Fist at this time, so I couldn't really care less what he's doing or who he is at this time. I simply believe that Cage would do well as a solo series without having to lean on Iron Fist.

Hector Ayala teamed with Daredevil and Spider-Man during his career as the White Tiger. In fact, I remember the first time Ayala and Spider-Man teamed up. There was first, the obligatory superhero vs superhero fight/ White Tiger vs Spider-Man that began at the ESU campus but eventually wound up in the neighborhoods the White Tiger called home. During that fight, it was Spider-Man who noticed the Puerto Rican and black residents of that neighborhood cheering on the Tiger just as youthful fans of his would do in areas of the city he was more familiar with. The Tiger even noticed this and taunted Spider-Man by telling him that he wasn't as bold and brash as he had been earlier now that he was facing the Tiger on his "home turf". It was shortly after that, the obligatory truce was established between the two heroes and they eventually apprehended the true culprit of the story. Ayala dated Gloria Grant, Peter Parker's black friend and ESU student. I feel that Del Toro should also date a non-white male, if her comicbook career ever reaches that point.

And let me tell you, these comic book romances can occur at the blink of an eyelash  :D I usually don't pick up anything X-Men related, but recently, I happened to pick up Uncanny X-Men #481. The character Rachel Grey has become romantically entangled with a Shi'ar warrior, simply because they shared a mind-melding incident and they are "in each other's head". Before the book was over, they were swapping terran and extra-terrestrial spit, neither knowing what the other's mouth had been doing previously or whether their tongues would be compatible  :D So, it is very likely that Angela Del Toro could be instantly swept away by any blue-eyed, blond-haired social worker, doctor, agent, etc...who she might happen to encounter. I feel that if that were to happen, it would be a shame.

On an entirely different note: I also picked up the latest issue of the EXILES. That group was part of an assemblage of other super-beings brought together to save the universe of that particular reality. One of the super-beings was practically the split-image of Space Ghost. The costume design was identical. Only some of the colors of the costume were altered to give the character a different appearance...which really wasn't that different afterall. The character was even wearing the famous Space Ghost Power Bands on his wrists  :D
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 20, 2006, 10:27:41 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.

I read in a recent WIZARD, that "cracks" are going to appear in the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa during the "Silent War". At the CBR, there was a thread discussing Marvel marriages and why some of them are viewed with disfavor from some fans. I suggested that while the Storm/Panther marriage seems to catch flak from almost every quarter, no one seems to be overly-concerned with the incestuous marriage of Black Bolt to Medusa. A poster there basically told me that "Inhuman" incest is not to be compared with "human" incest  :D Because Medusa and Black Bolt were seen as being "inhuman", their incestuous relationship was overlooked. I replied that Black Bolt and Medusa look enough like normal humans to BE normal humans. The poster didn't seem to be overly impressed by that fact and then proceeded to tell me that the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa has lasted a long time and puts most other Marvel marriages to shame.

I replied that the Panther's and Storm's marriage was still a "new thing" and given time, it could be something special in the Marvel universe. Now, it seems that the Marvel marriage that "puts other Marvel marriages to shame", is in for a rough time ahead. What a shame  ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 10:33:47 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.

I read in a recent WIZARD, that "cracks" are going to appear in the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa during the "Silent War". At the CBR, there was a thread discussing Marvel marriages and why some of them are viewed with disfavor from some fans. I suggested that while the Storm/Panther marriage seems to catch flak from almost every quarter, no one seems to be overly-concerned with the incestuous marriage of Black Bolt to Medusa. A poster there basically told me that "Inhuman" incest is not to be compared with "human" incest  :D Because Medusa and Black Bolt were seen as being "inhuman", their incestuous relationship was overlooked. I replied that Black Bolt and Medusa look enough like normal humans to BE normal humans. The poster didn't seem to be overly impressed by that fact and then proceeded to tell me that the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa has lasted a long time and puts most other Marvel marriages to shame.

I replied that the Panther's and Storm's marriage was still a "new thing" and given time, it could be something special in the Marvel universe. Now, it seems that the Marvel marriage that "puts other Marvel marriages to shame", is in for a rough time ahead. What a shame  ;)

It would be funny if they broke up cause Black Bolt keeps hogging the phone...
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 20, 2006, 10:37:12 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.

I read in a recent WIZARD, that "cracks" are going to appear in the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa during the "Silent War". At the CBR, there was a thread discussing Marvel marriages and why some of them are viewed with disfavor from some fans. I suggested that while the Storm/Panther marriage seems to catch flak from almost every quarter, no one seems to be overly-concerned with the incestuous marriage of Black Bolt to Medusa. A poster there basically told me that "Inhuman" incest is not to be compared with "human" incest  :D Because Medusa and Black Bolt were seen as being "inhuman", their incestuous relationship was overlooked. I replied that Black Bolt and Medusa look enough like normal humans to BE normal humans. The poster didn't seem to be overly impressed by that fact and then proceeded to tell me that the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa has lasted a long time and puts most other Marvel marriages to shame.

I replied that the Panther's and Storm's marriage was still a "new thing" and given time, it could be something special in the Marvel universe. Now, it seems that the Marvel marriage that "puts other Marvel marriages to shame", is in for a rough time ahead. What a shame  ;)

It would be funny if they broke up cause Black Bolt keeps hogging the phone...

Or, because Medusa doesn't like it when Black Bolt whispers "sweet nothings" into her ear. Everytime he whispers, "I love you", it's like a nuclear holocaust happening between her ears.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 10:40:11 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.

I read in a recent WIZARD, that "cracks" are going to appear in the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa during the "Silent War". At the CBR, there was a thread discussing Marvel marriages and why some of them are viewed with disfavor from some fans. I suggested that while the Storm/Panther marriage seems to catch flak from almost every quarter, no one seems to be overly-concerned with the incestuous marriage of Black Bolt to Medusa. A poster there basically told me that "Inhuman" incest is not to be compared with "human" incest  :D Because Medusa and Black Bolt were seen as being "inhuman", their incestuous relationship was overlooked. I replied that Black Bolt and Medusa look enough like normal humans to BE normal humans. The poster didn't seem to be overly impressed by that fact and then proceeded to tell me that the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa has lasted a long time and puts most other Marvel marriages to shame.

I replied that the Panther's and Storm's marriage was still a "new thing" and given time, it could be something special in the Marvel universe. Now, it seems that the Marvel marriage that "puts other Marvel marriages to shame", is in for a rough time ahead. What a shame  ;)

It would be funny if they broke up cause Black Bolt keeps hogging the phone...

Or, because Medusa doesn't like it when Black Bolt whispers "sweet nothings" into her ear. Everytime he whispers, "I love you", it's like a nuclear holocaust happening between her ears.

"...And he has bad breath!"
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 10:49:53 am

Being Black with very strong African and Latin cultural roots and also being a lifelong adherent of the martial arts,I tried to purchase this mini,but my local comics shop kept telling me that they were sold out.I asked if they were getting more,but they told me that they probably weren't becasue the series isn't selling well and that the story is lame.That's a quote."The story is lame."

Is the story lame?
It's a very good read.  Very feminist, and more in touch with how a real woman would be portrayed if there were actual super heroes.  It's getting flack from many men, because it doesn't ooze sexuality.  Her breasts and butt aren't all in your face.  Her costume isn't overtly sexual, and she kicks a LOT of male butt.

And I was just stating a fact of the book.  I thought I saw someone write that over in the 'Real black love' thread, asking why she had to be paired up with Daredevil instead of a Puerto Rican love interest.  She isn't attracted to Matt Murdock, she has respect for him.  She stood up to her former FBI director who fired her because she believed in what Matt was doing in his neighborhood.  

But on the topic of interracial romances, I see things a little differently.  I dont' care who someone is romantically linked to, as long as it is written well.  If you love someone for who they are, the color of one's skin should never be a issue, love should be color blind.  Ask my parents who have been married for almost 30 years, and have had personal and social issues caused by this, but have weathered the storm beautifully.  They are more in love today than they were 28 years ago.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 10:52:03 am
To Chime in on this topic, nothing is set in stone. I mean, how long did Vision and Scarlet Witch stayed married? How about Quicksliver and Luna? Does anyone remember Bruce Banner and Betty Ross? I say as long as Joe Q is the Editor and Chief of A Tribe Called Marvel, the marriage between BP and Storm will have the full support. For now, let's enjoy it and not try to dwell too far into the future.

I read in a recent WIZARD, that "cracks" are going to appear in the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa during the "Silent War". At the CBR, there was a thread discussing Marvel marriages and why some of them are viewed with disfavor from some fans. I suggested that while the Storm/Panther marriage seems to catch flak from almost every quarter, no one seems to be overly-concerned with the incestuous marriage of Black Bolt to Medusa. A poster there basically told me that "Inhuman" incest is not to be compared with "human" incest  :D Because Medusa and Black Bolt were seen as being "inhuman", their incestuous relationship was overlooked. I replied that Black Bolt and Medusa look enough like normal humans to BE normal humans. The poster didn't seem to be overly impressed by that fact and then proceeded to tell me that the marriage of Black Bolt and Medusa has lasted a long time and puts most other Marvel marriages to shame.

I replied that the Panther's and Storm's marriage was still a "new thing" and given time, it could be something special in the Marvel universe. Now, it seems that the Marvel marriage that "puts other Marvel marriages to shame", is in for a rough time ahead. What a shame  ;)

It would be funny if they broke up cause Black Bolt keeps hogging the phone...

Or, because Medusa doesn't like it when Black Bolt whispers "sweet nothings" into her ear. Everytime he whispers, "I love you", it's like a nuclear holocaust happening between her ears.

"...And he has bad breath!"
'
Ha!  I love it!
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 10:54:57 am
I've always had problems with the phrase "color blind" when it comes to race and interracial relationship. I get the idea, but the wording seems to suggest that there's something wrong with whatever race you're talking about or dating, you're just being "blind" to it to enjoy that person. I think you SHOULD see race, just don't see it as something bad or awful. its a part of who you are or who the person is, so why pretend you don't see it? Just put it all into perspective. Every race has good and bad in their history, its nothing to be proud or ashamed of, it simply is and should be accepted. Just saying.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 10:58:22 am
"Colorblind" is a nice way of saying "I don't want to learn anything about you that makes me have to learn about, respect and acknowledge our differences, so let's just pretend they don't exist, okay?"
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 11:00:08 am
I've always had problems with the phrase "color blind" when it comes to race and interracial relationship. I get the idea, but the wording seems to suggest that there's something wrong with whatever race you're talking about or dating, you're just being "blind" to it to enjoy that person. I think you SHOULD see race, just don't see it as something bad or awful. its a part of who you are or who the person is, so why pretend you don't see it? Just put it all into perspective. Every race has good and bad in their history, its nothing to be proud or ashamed of, it simply is and should be accepted. Just saying.
Well, I'm a skittles kind of girl.  I dont' care what race you are, as long as you're good and stay faithful to me, that's all that should matter.  I'm not going to pick and choose who I fall in love with by the color of their skin.  
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 11:01:13 am
"Colorblind" is a nice way of saying "I don't want to learn anything about you that makes me have to learn about, respect and acknowledge our differences, so let's just pretend they don't exist, okay?"

Basically. I think we should have a national holiday, and recognize that day for years to come, where we RETIRE that word/phrase once and for all. And, well, hope something new doesn't pop up in its place. Pastel impaired or something.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 11:02:50 am
"Colorblind" is a nice way of saying "I don't want to learn anything about you that makes me have to learn about, respect and acknowledge our differences, so let's just pretend they don't exist, okay?"
Being Black, White and Puerto Rican, you have to learn alot about my differences to get with me.  Should I pick and choose what aspects from my ancestors I want to show?  Like how I enjoy flautas and black eyed peas?  How my dad loves Alice Cooper while my mom loves Aretha and Nina Simone?

EDIT:I think you should focus on what you have in common more than what sets you apart.  Isn't love the union of two kindred spirits becoming one?  That's how I view it. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 11:06:12 am
I've always had problems with the phrase "color blind" when it comes to race and interracial relationship. I get the idea, but the wording seems to suggest that there's something wrong with whatever race you're talking about or dating, you're just being "blind" to it to enjoy that person. I think you SHOULD see race, just don't see it as something bad or awful. its a part of who you are or who the person is, so why pretend you don't see it? Just put it all into perspective. Every race has good and bad in their history, its nothing to be proud or ashamed of, it simply is and should be accepted. Just saying.
Well, I'm a skittles kind of girl.  I dont' care what race you are, as long as you're good and stay faithful to me, that's all that should matter.  I'm not going to pick and choose who I fall in love with by the color of their skin.  

No one's saying you should, I don't think. Its just when that phrase pops up when someone's in an interracial relationship, it seems to be like saying "I normally have problems/don't like/negative feelings with black people (for instance), I'm just gonna turn a blind eye to those emotions for you." Which...solves nothing in the long run. Race shouldn't matter when choosing someone, true, but it WILL matter as far as getting to know someone that you choose. And again that's not a bad thing, just something that shouldn't be ignored or swept under the rug.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 11:08:45 am
I've always had problems with the phrase "color blind" when it comes to race and interracial relationship. I get the idea, but the wording seems to suggest that there's something wrong with whatever race you're talking about or dating, you're just being "blind" to it to enjoy that person. I think you SHOULD see race, just don't see it as something bad or awful. its a part of who you are or who the person is, so why pretend you don't see it? Just put it all into perspective. Every race has good and bad in their history, its nothing to be proud or ashamed of, it simply is and should be accepted. Just saying.
Well, I'm a skittles kind of girl.  I dont' care what race you are, as long as you're good and stay faithful to me, that's all that should matter.  I'm not going to pick and choose who I fall in love with by the color of their skin.  

No one's saying you should, I don't think. Its just when that phrase pops up when someone's in an interracial relationship, it seems to be like saying "I normally have problems/don't like/negative feelings with black people (for instance), I'm just gonna turn a blind eye to those emotions for you." Which...solves nothing in the long run. Race shouldn't matter when choosing someone, true, but it WILL matter as far as getting to know someone that you choose. And again that's not a bad thing, just something that shouldn't be ignored or swept under the rug.
I understand what you're saying, but it seems that a lot of people on here see an interracial relationship as a bad thing, and as a child of an interracial couple it kinda hurts that people still feel this way.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 11:12:52 am
Being Black, White and Puerto Rican

Honey, we know. You've gone out of your way to jump up and down and wave your arms and tell us all that you're not like the rest of us "regular" Negroes (which makes you just like a good deal of HEFfas). I don't give a damn if your father is human and your mother is a Ruto - I still ain't going for colorblindness. Don't like it? Deal.

Quote
Should I pick and choose what aspects from my ancestors I want to show?  Like how I enjoy flautas and black eyed peas?  How my dad loves Alice Cooper while my mom loves Aretha and Nina Simone?

I hate to break this to you, but I love Alice AND Aretha, and I'm as black as Richard Roundtree in "Shaft in Africa".

I understand what you're saying, but it seems that a lot of people on here see an interracial relationship as a bad thing, and as a child of an interracial couple it kinda hurts that people still feel this way.

Ain't nobody here said anything remotely CLOSE to that here and you know it. My GOD, what the f**k is up with people demanding special treatment this week!?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 11:18:49 am
Being Black, White and Puerto Rican

Honey, we know. You've gone out of your way to jump up and down and wave your arms and tell us all that you're not like the rest of us "regular" Negroes.

Quote
Should I pick and choose what aspects from my ancestors I want to show?  Like how I enjoy flautas and black eyed peas?  How my dad loves Alice Cooper while my mom loves Aretha and Nina Simone?

I hate to break this to you, but I love Alice AND Aretha, and I'm as black as Richard Roundtree in "Shaft in Africa".
Well I'm so happy for you.  If they were all like you, I wouldn't want to be like them 'regular negroes.'
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 11:20:28 am
*resisting the urge to point and laugh at the HEFfa in denial*
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: mariah on December 20, 2006, 11:22:34 am
*resisting the urge to point and laugh at the HEFfa in denial*
What the hell's a heffa?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 20, 2006, 11:23:15 am
Um...I'm just saying it sounds like we're all saying the same thing, just coming at it from different angles. And seriously, I want that holiday to happen.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 11:27:44 am
Seconded. America may want people to forget their differences, but I'll never let that sh*t happen. No one is going to strip my black identity away from me, and if that makes white people uncomfortable and wannabes afraid, f*ck 'em.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on December 20, 2006, 12:29:51 pm
*resisting the urge to point and laugh at the HEFfa in denial*
What the hell's a heffa?
HEF = Hudlin Entertainment Forum
HEFFA = member of HEF  (i.e. all of us)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 20, 2006, 01:01:35 pm
I've always had problems with the phrase "color blind" when it comes to race and interracial relationship. I get the idea, but the wording seems to suggest that there's something wrong with whatever race you're talking about or dating, you're just being "blind" to it to enjoy that person. I think you SHOULD see race, just don't see it as something bad or awful. its a part of who you are or who the person is, so why pretend you don't see it? Just put it all into perspective. Every race has good and bad in their history, its nothing to be proud or ashamed of, it simply is and should be accepted. Just saying.

When young-minded people get into interracial relationships, color is EXACTLY what being seen in many cases.

Either your a dude (White or Black) with an Asian fetish.

Or a Sister who had bad experiences with the Brothers and wants something else or Vice Versa.

Or a Latina whose tired of her men playing her or vice versa.

Many I.R. relationship are ALL ABOUT seeing color, seeing your own color and running in the other direction. 

When folks are comfortable in their own skin and have the damn sense to not lump THEIR OWN KIND in a category because of a couple of bad experiences, there might be some more honesty involved.

But I'm a cycnic who lives in New York and I freely admit I've an axe to grind ;D.



     
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Mastrmynd on December 20, 2006, 01:25:49 pm
i have NO probs with Interracial relationships.
I CAN admit that I didn't really kick it with this one white chick who was REAAAAAAALLY feelin' becuz of family reasons..which is kinda silly since my aunt married a white dude.
oh well... maybe i didnt want the sistahs to think that i was leavin' them... but there were sooooo many women at UGA... ;)

i'm sorry...what was the question again.
i had some flashbacks.
 8)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 01:39:27 pm
Like I said, ain't nobody here said a damn thing about interracial relationships being wrong.  ::) And I fully support a woman's right to choose any color mate that she chooses, as long as MY right to choose a BLACK man as my mate is equally respected.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 20, 2006, 01:40:55 pm
And so another thread hijack begins....

 :D
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 20, 2006, 01:43:13 pm
Sorry! Back to the royal family of Wakanda!
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: lovecrafty on December 20, 2006, 02:23:03 pm
Being Black with very strong African and Latin cultural roots and also being a lifelong adherent of the martial arts,I tried to purchase this mini,but my local comics shop kept telling me that they were sold out.I asked if they were getting more,but they told me that they probably weren't becasue the series isn't selling well and that the story is lame.That's a quote."The story is lame."

You need to find a better LCS!!!  My LCS would never pull that sort of nonsense on me, if I said I wanted an issue that was sold out but still available, I'd get it.  And seriously, what kind of moron logic is that guy using?  It sold out completely, therefore it's not selling well?  Uh, something does not compute.  1 + 1 = 0?  That guy is full of something.

Quote
Is the story lame?

Not at all!  It's excellent.  It's not particularly original -- it's basically Daredevil Redux, but considering all that has happened to Daredevil in the last five years (Out, The Murdock Papers, and Devil In Cell Block D in particular), it's kind of impossible to tell traditional Daredevil type stories, the story of one person's war on crime.  So White Tiger fills a niche that Daredevil can no longer fill, and is a vehicle for telling stories that can't be told in Daredevil.  It's a story about a green street-crimefighter learning the ropes of crime-fighting, and it's good.  That it's being written by a woman also brings a lot of fresh perspective to the story.  White Tiger questions a lot of traditional presumptions about crime-fighting, and doesn't come off like some female crime-fighters do, as a man-with-boobs.

Also a new Cobra has been introduced (the original's nephew), and he's cool and menacing.

There are a few problems with the series.  In the first issue there is an appearance by Spider-Man that is totally inexplicable.  It's a bit jarring, he just shows up at random in a place it makes no sense for him to show up at.  And the conceit that Danny Rand is an "uncle"-like figure to Del Toro is a bit implausible.  I mean, maybe if they had let Danny Rand age a bit since he was introduced in the seventies that would make sense, but given the conciet of Marvel Time, you end up with a twenty-something Danny Rand remembering when the twenty-something Angela Del Toro was a kid.  Um.  Doesn't quite work.  But I don't think they are presenting Danny as a love-interest, just a mystery that Del Toro is trying to solve.  Given the nature of comics, I wouldn't expect a successfull, happy relationship for Del Toro for quite some time.  I mean, it's a staple of the genre that heroes always have to choose between the soft happiness of relationship and their moral duty as superheroes.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: supreme illuminati on December 20, 2006, 02:30:45 pm
Being Black with very strong African and Latin cultural roots and also being a lifelong adherent of the martial arts,I tried to purchase this mini,but my local comics shop kept telling me that they were sold out.I asked if they were getting more,but they told me that they probably weren't becasue the series isn't selling well and that the story is lame.That's a quote."The story is lame."

You need to find a better LCS!!! My LCS would never pull that sort of nonsense on me, if I said I wanted an issue that was sold out but still available, I'd get it. And seriously, what kind of moron logic is that guy using? It sold out completely, therefore it's not selling well? Uh, something does not compute. 1 + 1 = 0? That guy is full of something.

Quote
Is the story lame?

Not at all! It's excellent. It's not particularly original -- it's basically Daredevil Redux, but considering all that has happened to Daredevil in the last five years (Out, The Murdock Papers, and Devil In Cell Block D in particular), it's kind of impossible to tell traditional Daredevil type stories, the story of one person's war on crime. So White Tiger fills a niche that Daredevil can no longer fill, and is a vehicle for telling stories that can't be told in Daredevil. It's a story about a green street-crimefighter learning the ropes of crime-fighting, and it's good. That it's being written by a woman also brings a lot of fresh perspective to the story. White Tiger questions a lot of traditional presumptions about crime-fighting, and doesn't come off like some female crime-fighters do, as a man-with-boobs.

Also a new Cobra has been introduced (the original's nephew), and he's cool and menacing.

There are a few problems with the series. In the first issue there is an appearance by Spider-Man that is totally inexplicable. It's a bit jarring, he just shows up at random in a place it makes no sense for him to show up at. And the conceit that Danny Rand is an "uncle"-like figure to Del Toro is a bit implausible. I mean, maybe if they had let Danny Rand age a bit since he was introduced in the seventies that would make sense, but given the conciet of Marvel Time, you end up with a twenty-something Danny Rand remembering when the twenty-something Angela Del Toro was a kid. Um. Doesn't quite work. But I don't think they are presenting Danny as a love-interest, just a mystery that Del Toro is trying to solve. Given the nature of comics, I wouldn't expect a successfull, happy relationship for Del Toro for quite some time. I mean, it's a staple of the genre that heroes always have to choose between the soft happiness of relationship and their moral duty as superheroes.


good lookin out lovecrafty,I appreciate the concise summary and criticism.I'm going to avail myself of back copies forthwith...and whassup with that IMMORTAL IRON FIST thingy? Anybody read it yet?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Mastrmynd on December 20, 2006, 02:33:54 pm
issue 1 of immortal iron fist was GOOD!
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: lovecrafty on December 20, 2006, 03:37:09 pm
issue 1 of immortal iron fist was GOOD!

It really was.  Far, far better than the last Iron Fist mini, which was total crap.  The art is kind of lackluster though.  Better than that cheesey quasi-manga garbage the last one had, but I'd still like to see a cleaner artist on the series.

Back to the topic:  In another thread, I suggested a Black Panther: The End that would reveal that T'Challa eventually transcends and becomes the Panther God, freed from the constraints of time, and becomes the sources of wisdom that has guided Wakanda from the beginning.  Of course, that idea doesn't really account for Storm (maybe they merge?).  Since is a thread about the future of Black Panther and Storm, how would you guys want to see Black Panther: The End play out?
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: supreme illuminati on December 20, 2006, 05:45:17 pm
I think that BP becoming the Panther God or an avatar thereof would be quite plausible.One of our brilliant HEFfers..Wise,or Curtis or Vic or somebody,sorry I don't recall whom it was...pointed out that there was some linkage between THE PANTHER GOD and BAST back in the day,and BAST had some linkage with or maybe was the Goddess that Storm's line are linked to.So,that means that BP and STORM could have been divinely paired by their gods,whom are the male and female aspects of the same entity...
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 20, 2006, 07:33:56 pm
And so another thread hijack begins....

 :D

I feel like the hijacker holding the gun to the pilot's head  :D

My apologies, HEF mates. My comments about interracial love relationships in comic books may have been the catalyst for this current catastrophe. And our sister, Jenn is getting a great deal of "exercise" these days - not that she isn't able to handle it with ease, mind you. But it's Christmastime. We should all try to enjoy each other's company in the spirit of the Season...or not  :D But it would be nice if we could. I know Wise Son is one who might agree with me.

We have read all year long, how some anti-Hudlin/anti-Panther/anti-Storm&Panther types have been saying the marriage was just a "stunt" and that the only thing Storm has in common with the Panther is black skin. Of course, we know these are the words of people who are usually resentful, embittered and ignorant, but we have tried to reason with such people regardless. Seeing as how so many "non-fans" seemed to suggest and resent the fact that two Marvel characters were married simply because they both happened to be black, I cited those Marvel couples who were white and interracial. These situations have been largely ignored by comparison. Because I have suggested that Marvel might benefit from having more high profile "same race" relationships, some have called me a racist  :) This is not true.

Here is what I wrote on Jenn's "Black Love" thread. The same quote or one very similar to it, appears at the CBR: I've noticed that on the CBR board as well. I don't believe I've ever stated that I was against interracial couples. In fact, I distinctly remember posting that I was not against interracial relationships as long as those relationships were loving and respectful. The same "quacking ducks" who accuse you of being racist because you happen to appreciate what a black comic book writer is doing, have twice now, questioned if I was that writer because I too support what he is doing, and have been accused of being a racist   

I usually refrain from talking about myself...mainly, because I'm SUCH a boring fellow. But I think now is the time to put those who have called me a racist because of my opinion of comic book love relationships to rest. I am part of a family that is extremely multi-racial. If I couldn't stand interracial relationships, I couldn't live in this family. I have dated interracially many times. My siblings and cousins have dated interracially. I have family members who could move to Forsythe County, Georgia and live there without incident. It wouldn't be until those folks in Forsythe County began to backtrack along their family tree that the problems might start..."Waitaminnit, boy. Just wait one doggone minnit! Where'd all these nigras come from?" Those family members might have to move out of Forsythe County if that ever happened.

I am a man. I enjoy women. I am a black man and though I have dated interracially, my preference is for black women - nothing I have to work at. It comes naturally. My opinion on comic book relations stands as stated.

Peace To All and To All, A Good Night  ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JLI Jesse on December 21, 2006, 06:14:52 am
We have read all year long, how some anti-Hudlin/anti-Panther/anti-Storm&Panther types have been saying the marriage was just a "stunt" and that the only thing Storm has in common with the Panther is black skin.

Remember that those aren't mutually exclusive.  Personally, I think its a stunt but that doesn't mean I am anti-Hudlin/anti-Panther/anti-Storm&Panther.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 21, 2006, 06:39:45 am
I think that BP becoming the Panther God or an avatar thereof would be quite plausible.One of our brilliant HEFfers..Wise,or Curtis or Vic or somebody,sorry I don't recall whom it was...pointed out that there was some linkage between THE PANTHER GOD and BAST back in the day,and BAST had some linkage with or maybe was the Goddess that Storm's line are linked to.So,that means that BP and STORM could have been divinely paired by their gods,whom are the male and female aspects of the same entity...

I believe the HEFfer in question is Open Palm.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on December 21, 2006, 06:44:32 am
I think that BP becoming the Panther God or an avatar thereof would be quite plausible.One of our brilliant HEFfers..Wise,or Curtis or Vic or somebody,sorry I don't recall whom it was...pointed out that there was some linkage between THE PANTHER GOD and BAST back in the day,and BAST had some linkage with or maybe was the Goddess that Storm's line are linked to.So,that means that BP and STORM could have been divinely paired by their gods,whom are the male and female aspects of the same entity...

I believe the HEFfer in question is Open Palm.
I know it wasn't me.  I'm just happy SI thought it might be.  :D
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: sinjection on December 21, 2006, 06:46:06 am
I think that BP becoming the Panther God or an avatar thereof would be quite plausible.One of our brilliant HEFfers..Wise,or Curtis or Vic or somebody,sorry I don't recall whom it was...pointed out that there was some linkage between THE PANTHER GOD and BAST back in the day,and BAST had some linkage with or maybe was the Goddess that Storm's line are linked to.So,that means that BP and STORM could have been divinely paired by their gods,whom are the male and female aspects of the same entity...

I believe the HEFfer in question is Open Palm.
I know it wasn't me.  I'm just happy SI thought it might be.  :D

I noticed supreme only mentioned the smart and SANE people. So, I know it couldn't have been moi  ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 21, 2006, 07:20:25 am
Here's my take: What you have to understand is that INTERNET FLACK DONT COUNT. Really. If it did Priest would still be writing this book and it would be at #100 about now.  Priest was the darling of the internet fans. Book got cancelled due to low sales(It wasnt me, I was actullay buying it).

Internet fans hated Avengers Disassembled and look how much money that made Marvel. Old School Fan hate Civil War. But its selling. You could make a strong case for doing the polar opposite of what internet fans wanted as a SUREFIRE WAY of making big sales bucks.

Marvel's got no reason to listen its fans on the matter of Storm/Panther or anything else.  

Moreover outside of Chris Clairmont who has propertary interest in the character(after all, he made her popular it the first place), NOBODY at the X-Office gives a rat's ass about Storm. In the 90's it was all about fan icon Jeny Grey, Romantic Foil Rogue and Psylocke the Asian combat stripper.

Even at this point that hasnt changed. If it was up to me Storm would be starring solo in her own comic or leading the XSE in its own book. Storm is Marvel's closest equivalent to Wonder Woman. She was created to be the most powerful member of her team (Jean Grey and Sue Storm started out as wimps). But when Nightcrawler, JUBILEE AND WHITE QUEEN got ongoing series before she did, the handwriting was on the wall.

And even if Storm were to go back to the X-Men, what would she do? What role would she play? Team Sexpot? That's White Queen. Team Leader? It's been done and we still have Cyclops for that.  Hardened Vet? That's Rouge's job these days. Den Mom? Well there's always that but considering Kitty Pride=Buffy these days she's not even useful as that.

The X-staff had Storm wandering around Africa because they couldn't think of anything else to do with her. Despite with the internet fans seem to thing B.P./Storm is as close as this character will ever get to getting her own series.

Why the internet fans willfully ignore this fact is open to debate (on another thread, hopefully :D), but barring Clairmont's return to an major X-book (wont happen, he doesn't sell books like he used to) I'd say Storm and Black Panther are pretty secure.

    
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 21, 2006, 07:30:35 am
The X-staff had Storm wandering around Africa because they couldn't think of anything else to do with her. Despite with the internet fans seem to thing B.P./Storm is as close as this character will ever get to getting her own series.

And even if she did, the fans wouldn't buy it. If Storm is so popular, why have ALL of her minis done so poorly in sales? I think the fist one may have had decent sales, but even *I* didn't buy "Ororo: Before the Storm".

Quote
barring Clairmont's return to an major X-book (wont happen, he doesn't sell books like he used to)

Claremont doesn't write like he used to, either.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: zulu801 on December 21, 2006, 07:39:08 am
IMO, the more flack naysayers and haters have to say about BP and Storm it will give RH much more inspriation to write great stories and prove to anti BP/Storm relationship haters that the future for them is on a strong positve track for Marvel U. 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 21, 2006, 07:39:59 am
The X-staff had Storm wandering around Africa because they couldn't think of anything else to do with her. Despite with the internet fans seem to thing B.P./Storm is as close as this character will ever get to getting her own series.

And even if she did, the fans wouldn't buy it. If Storm is so popular, why have ALL of her minis done so poorly in sales? I think the fist one may have had decent sales, but even *I* didn't buy "Ororo: Before the Storm".

This is just me, but for a character to work she/he has to have a mission/job and a homebase/town. For example, Gambit's a thief that lives in New Oreleans. Nobody's bothered to give Storm even that level of detail.

Quote
barring Clairmont's return to an major X-book (wont happen, he doesn't sell books like he used to)

Claremont doesn't write like he used to, either.

Yeah, unless he's working with a really great artist, he just hacks it out now. He's been half-assing it since 1985 probably.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on December 21, 2006, 07:41:52 am
Here's my take: What you have to understand is that INTERNET FLACK DONT COUNT. Really. If it did Priest would still be writing this book and it would be at #100 about now.  Priest was the darling of the internet fans. Book got cancelled due to low sales(It wasnt me, I was actullay buying it).

Internet fans hated Avengers Disassembled and look how much money that made Marvel. Old School Fan hate Civil War. But its selling. You could make a strong case for doing the polar opposite of what internet fans wanted as a SUREFIRE WAY of making big sales bucks.

Marvel's got no reason to listen its fans on the matter of Storm/Panther or anything else.  

Moreover outside of Chris Clairmont who has propertary interest in the character(after all, he made her popular it the first place), NOBODY at the X-Office gives a rat's ass about Storm. In the 90's it was all about fan icon Jeny Grey, Romantic Foil Rogue and Psylocke the Asian combat stripper.

Even at this point that hasnt changed. If it was up to me Storm would be starring solo in her own comic or leading the XSE in its own book. Storm is Marvel's closest equivalent to Wonder Woman. She was created to be the most powerful member of her team (Jean Grey and Sue Storm started out as wimps). But when Nightcrawler, JUBILEE AND WHITE QUEEN got ongoing series before she did, the handwriting was on the wall.

And even if Storm were to go back to the X-Men, what would she do? What role would she play? Team Sexpot? That's White Queen. Team Leader? It's been done and we still have Cyclops for that.  Hardened Vet? That's Rouge's job these days. Den Mom? Well there's always that but considering Kitty Pride=Buffy these days she's not even useful as that.

The X-staff had Storm wandering around Africa because they couldn't think of anything else to do with her. Despite with the internet fans seem to thing B.P./Storm is as close as this character will ever get to getting her own series.

Why the internet fans willfully ignore this fact is open to debate (on another thread, hopefully :D), but barring Clairmont's return to an major X-book (wont happen, he doesn't sell books like he used to) I'd say Storm and Black Panther are pretty secure.

    


Cosign every single word. Especially if Storm went back it would just be back burner central for her, so she's good right where she is. The non fans would rather her be in the background on X-Men than doing something as queen of Wakanda and being happy and involved in stories? Says a lot about those "fans", and luckily the X-Office is IGNORING them.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on December 21, 2006, 07:58:21 am
He's been half-assing it since 1985 probably.

Lord, the annual...that's how I knew that these so-called Storm "fns" aren't fans at all. Any true Storm fan would've been INSULTED by that sh*t. Like I told Hud, this was never about Storm. This is about Black Panther stepping to Storm like a man, making Wolverine look like a punk in the process. To quote the man himself, "he can't get ALL the pussy." (That's my 2nd favorite Hudlin quote. My all-time favorite: "T'Challa and Ororo: now black AND f*cking!")
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 21, 2006, 08:03:39 am
I might be the biggest "Storm should have her own book" zealot out there but even I'll admit she'd look ridiculous jumping out of alleyway beating up drug dealers :D. Marvel most popular character all have this knack.

If you want to see if a character can sell well at Marvel, try to imagine him/ pouncing on some dude from an alley ;D.

Punisher? Check.
Spider Man? Check.
Wolverine? Check.
Captain America. Check.
Blade? Check, but in his case it'd be a VAMPIRE drug dealer.
Cage? Check.

Unfortunately Storm fails the "Alley Ambush" test ;D  

Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: kitamu Re on December 21, 2006, 08:05:30 am
Quote
My all-time favorite: "T'Challa and Ororo: now black AND f*cking!")

that is my fav as well..I can see that the fan boys hate that..bp and storm's children will be more powerful then any other couple in the marvel U.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Vic Vega on December 21, 2006, 08:13:36 am
He's been half-assing it since 1985 probably.

Lord, the annual...that's how I knew that these so-called Storm "fns" aren't fans at all. Any true Storm fan would've been INSULTED by that sh*t. Like I told Hud, this was never about Storm. This is about Black Panther stepping to Storm like a man, making Wolverine look like a punk in the process. To quote the man himself, "he can't get ALL the pussy." (That's my 2nd favorite Hudlin quote. My all-time favorite: "T'Challa and Ororo: now black AND f*cking!")

Didn't read the annual. Did read the ARENA though. That was pretty bad. They send Storm on a mission to break up mutant pit fighting and she ends up THE NUMBER ONE ATTRACTION  there(!). If they'd of sent her to break up a drug ring she of ended up a Heroin addict >:(. And Yokio is Storm's Lesbian Bitch. I guess there no ACS in Japan cause there's NO WAY IN HELL that silly ho should be raising kids(I have seen worse in real life though :o) 
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: stanleyballard on December 21, 2006, 02:25:58 pm
Still do not agree with this assessment of Claremont....read "Arena" and while it did not read as a "great story" it was not a lesbian fantasy or anti-Storm.  Wonder if any of the naysayers here support independent Black comics and put their money where their mouth is since they don't like the first major Black super hero in comics recreated by Claremont.  If you don't like it then don't buy it...if Claremont hadn't written it you would never have known Storm.  In any medium an artist hits a zenith and will come down....Claremont at least had the balls to write diverse characters and take risks.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Kristopher on December 22, 2006, 09:12:55 am
Still do not agree with this assessment of Claremont....read "Arena" and while it did not read as a "great story" it was not a lesbian fantasy or anti-Storm.  Wonder if any of the naysayers here support independent Black comics and put their money where their mouth is since they don't like the first major Black super hero in comics recreated by Claremont.  If you don't like it then don't buy it...if Claremont hadn't written it you would never have known Storm.  In any medium an artist hits a zenith and will come down....Claremont at least had the balls to write diverse characters and take risks.


Amen!!!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/krstoo/StormsFriends.jpg)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: JRCarter on December 22, 2006, 10:14:12 am
LOL
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 11:38:03 pm
Still do not agree with this assessment of Claremont....read "Arena" and while it did not read as a "great story" it was not a lesbian fantasy or anti-Storm.  Wonder if any of the naysayers here support independent Black comics and put their money where their mouth is since they don't like the first major Black super hero in comics recreated by Claremont.  If you don't like it then don't buy it...if Claremont hadn't written it you would never have known Storm.  In any medium an artist hits a zenith and will come down....Claremont at least had the balls to write diverse characters and take risks.


Amen!!!
([url]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a222/krstoo/StormsFriends.jpg[/url])


LOL!!!!
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Jenn on January 11, 2007, 12:11:12 am
HERE LIES JENN
SHE DIED LAUGHING
1982-2007

...if Claremont hadn't written it you would never have known Storm.  In any medium an artist hits a zenith and will come down....Claremont at least had the balls to write diverse characters and take risks.

I can give Claremont credit for his former greatness and his current f*ckups at the same time.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 11, 2007, 07:14:02 am
i gave claremont the benefit of the doubt...that's why i read xtreme xmen and the XMEN titles relaunch...you know, the 6 month's later fighting against the NEO stories.

and i hope the neo stay gone.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Salustrade on April 17, 2007, 11:11:12 am
does anyone know what will happen to Black Panther and Storm once Hudlin leaves? I hope he stays on for decades, but in the comics biz its inevitable.

The Divorce of the Century, I'm sure.

^^^Well, I sincerely hope not.

T'Challa and Ororo being married is probably one ot the best things that's happened in comic books.

They work well together regardless of what the haters say.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Rutog98 on April 17, 2007, 01:56:01 pm


And even if she did, the fans wouldn't buy it. If Storm is so popular, why have ALL of her minis done so poorly in sales? I think the fist one may have had decent sales, but even *I* didn't buy "Ororo: Before the Storm".

[

The reason those minis did not sell is because they are crap. Lets face it. "Ororo: Before the Storm" was horrible. Many Storm fans did not buy it because they did not like the premis. I only bought it to show Marvel that I supported the character. They would never do a story arc like that for a Jean mini. Why not give Storm a mini where she is an adult with her powers and give her an antagonish worthy of the power, you know? I guarantee if the mini was dealing with Storm seeking out her ancestral roots with her grandmother in Africa with the immortal mutants Selene and Apacolypse playing as the antagonists and showing a 3-way history where these two immortals have battled Storm's ancestors throughout their lives (Storm's ancestry goes back to the dawn of humanity. The women in her family all had white hair, blue eyes and were sorceresses) and they are looking for some kind of retribution or something against Storm and her ancestors, that story would have sold like hot cakes. I mean, I'm sure Storm's ancestors would have clashed with Selene and Apacolypse over the millinea. And why would Selene and Apacolypse be friends? I'm sure alliances have been made and broken between the three over the millinea to keep each other in check. Instead, they give Storm stories with the very weak Morlocks and crap like this "Before the Storm" which nobody will care about.

I don't know why they don't think of better ideas for Storm.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: The Evasive 1 on April 17, 2007, 02:05:44 pm
(Storm's ancestry goes back to the dawn of humanity. The women in her family all had white hair, blue eyes and were sorceresses) 

Is this actually true? I didn't think her mother had white hair and blue eyes.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Rutog98 on April 17, 2007, 02:09:11 pm
[

Cosign every single word. Especially if Storm went back it would just be back burner central for her, so she's good right where she is. The non fans would rather her be in the background on X-Men than doing something as queen of Wakanda and being happy and involved in stories? Says a lot about those "fans", and luckily the X-Office is IGNORING them.

I'm really concerned about Storm being back with the X-Men, honestly. The Fantastic Four and BP are MUCH better books/teams for her. They fight much more powerful villains and you don't have millions of heroes running around on the same time trying to fight the villain. Storm and BP are very different. He is a Mr. Fantastic-type character who is very good with science and all. Storm is the powerhouse. In FF, Storm's the powerhouse, Thing has the strength, BP has the scientific know-how and the resources of his country while Torch brings what he can.  Case in point, look at the current stories in BP and FF. We are going to see some really major power from Storm that we should see more often. What are we getting in the X-Men? Morlocks? I'm so tired of that.  In the X-Men, you have tons of mutants running around with superpowers fighting villains that Storm can take on solo. I hope to God that Magneto does not show up and they try and portray him as somebody who can fight the entire team with Storm on the lineup or portray him like this huge threat and then never have Storm fight him. Then again, if she did fight him, he can't realistically win! True, she does have history with the X-Men and we could see that play up in some great character scenes, but I want to see Storm shine in all aspects of her character. With her powers, she should be with a smaller cast or solo. Writers can create new relationships with her on other teams like the FF. This is really the best team for her.

Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Rutog98 on April 17, 2007, 02:10:03 pm
(Storm's ancestry goes back to the dawn of humanity. The women in her family all had white hair, blue eyes and were sorceresses) 

Is this actually true? I didn't think her mother had white hair and blue eyes.

This is true. Her mother wanted to make her own destiny and left Ororo's grandmother. She probably dyed her hair and wore contacts. lol
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Salustrade on April 18, 2007, 02:39:54 pm

Which brings me to the point of this post: does anyone know what will happen to Black Panther and Storm once Hudlin leaves? I hope he stays on for decades, but in the comics biz its inevitable. Fanboys aside I have no idea how Quasada feels about the pairing and if he'll let it stand once Mr. H leaves. I would hope so but you never know.

^^^Creative teams come and go but it's a safe bet to assume that Mr Hudlin is going to be writing BP for a long time.

Having said that though, in the event that Mr Hudlin has to move on to other things due to business commitments, it would be up to fans of the current incarnation of BP to kick J. Quesada's ass on line via petition and boycott if BP's intrinsic dopeness is tampered with in any way.

Peace
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Princesa on April 18, 2007, 02:53:38 pm
The future of BP and Storm is they will be iconic comix couple and they will have the next generation of superbeings as the off spring.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: kitamu Re on April 18, 2007, 05:55:53 pm
Quote
What are we getting in the X-Men? Morlocks? I'm so tired of that.

I am concerned about that story as well..it sunds Blah..the ,morlocks have always been a lame idea. I will pick up the first two issues to see if T'challa is in the book (knowing brubaker he will act like t'challa does not exist or that storm has duties and responibilites as queen) I don't think any morlock story could hold my interest since storm is more powerful then all the morlocks combined.
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Salustrade on April 18, 2007, 06:01:50 pm

Being Black with very strong African and Latin cultural roots and also being a lifelong adherent of the martial arts,I tried to purchase this mini,but my local comics shop kept telling me that they were sold out.I asked if they were getting more,but they told me that they probably weren't becasue the series isn't selling well and that the story is lame.That's a quote."The story is lame."

Is the story lame?
It's a very good read.  Very feminist, and more in touch with how a real woman would be portrayed if there were actual super heroes.  It's getting flack from many men, because it doesn't ooze sexuality.  Her breasts and butt aren't all in your face.  Her costume isn't overtly sexual, and she kicks a LOT of male butt.

And I was just stating a fact of the book.  I thought I saw someone write that over in the 'Real black love' thread, asking why she had to be paired up with Daredevil instead of a Puerto Rican love interest.  She isn't attracted to Matt Murdock, she has respect for him.  She stood up to her former FBI director who fired her because she believed in what Matt was doing in his neighborhood.  

But on the topic of interracial romances, I see things a little differently.  I dont' care who someone is romantically linked to, as long as it is written well.  If you love someone for who they are, the color of one's skin should never be a issue, love should be color blind.  Ask my parents who have been married for almost 30 years, and have had personal and social issues caused by this, but have weathered the storm beautifully.  They are more in love today than they were 28 years ago.

^^^props to your folks then.

But the same doesn't always hold true for other people.

Anyone who refuses to recognise that we live in a seriously race driven world is living a delusional lie.

Just look at the amount of hate that Reginald Hudlin has faced because he had the guts to marry T'challa and Ororo!

You'd think that the fans would by and large, be celebrating one of the biggest events in Marvel history but nooooooooooo.

All they could do ws cuss Mr Hudlin out for daring to portray to strong African characters in love.

If you dont know, black-on-black love is frowned upon by many haters whilst interracial unions are seen as being the norm.

Strangely enough, no one bats an eyelid that most other non-African ethnicities tend not to have this uncontrollable urge to be linked up with other racial groups.

I wonder why? ::)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: Salustrade on April 18, 2007, 06:05:34 pm
Quote
What are we getting in the X-Men? Morlocks? I'm so tired of that.

I am concerned about that story as well..it sunds Blah..the ,morlocks have always been a lame idea. I will pick up the first two issues to see if T'challa is in the book (knowing brubaker he will act like t'challa does not exist or that storm has duties and responibilites as queen) I don't think any morlock story could hold my interest since storm is more powerful then all the morlocks combined.

^^^I'll give the book a chance and see where the story goes.

At least that's more than can be said for the peons who refuse to pick up BP under dubious reasoning. ;)
Title: Re: The Future of Black Panther and Storm?
Post by: BlackRodimus on April 19, 2007, 08:19:33 pm
Wow, a blast from the past. :D I'm still pleased with the state of BP and Storm. They work well on the FF. I liked how the Watcher said their CHILDREN will have a great destiny. "What, did you think I attended your wedding for the shrimp?"