Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: Ture on April 28, 2013, 07:58:23 pm

Title: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
Post by: Ture on April 28, 2013, 07:58:23 pm
Hickman's Black Panther as depicted in Fantastic Four #s 607 & 608 and New Avengers # 1-5  was a much needed redirecting of the Black Panther from the path of impotency and irreverence due to the  irrelevancies occurring in Defenders #7 and the debacle that was Avengers vs X-Men. Hickman posits a formidable Black Panther.

While Tchalla has been given a new title, a new power, a new base of operations and some new equipment, I don't see Hickman's Black Panther as new as much as I see the incorporation and expansion on some of Black Panther's existing themes and that is a good thing if they remain cannon and are unchanging in achievement or effect over a period of time.

Appointing Tchalla the King of the Dead (I assume only the Wakandan dead) is a dubious attempt at replacing his title as King of Wakanda. It  is not a failed effort and Hickman certainly has time to flesh it out...but the throne of Wakanda was something unique to Tchalla.

Crowning the Black Panther King of the Dead may be exciting but it supplants an essential and iconic element of the Black Panther; that being his inheritance of the throne, thus the political responsibilities and global ramifications of possessing such. It is akin to taking Superman's ability to fly and replacing it with teleportation.

Endowing him with the ability to access the accumulative knowledge of his ancestors is something Tchalla should have been able to do all along. Ancestral communication is an Afrakan trademark. Priest first demonstrated Tchalla's inseparable bond and ability to commune with his ancestors in issue six of his run.

I'm not sure if Hickman was demonstrating Tchalla as having hyper speed (something I imagined akin to Marvel's Ultimate Alliance 2 Black Panther) or not, but it looked good.

I hope Hickman can stabilize the Black Panther's place of residence, business, headquarters and secret base. Tchalla has been moving around a lot over the past few years. the Caves of Bast, the Nowhere Room, Hell's Kitchen and now the Necropolis at Wakanda. I thought the Royal Palace and the Techno Jungle were more than adequate if exploited to their full potential.

The force shield and teleportation device are both welcomed and logical additions to one who is a prep master. The cloaked phasing effect was long over due. I used to hate how the Hatut Zeraze were shown phasing but not the Black Panther. I  appreciate Hickman's inclusion of the morphing costume, energy dagger and vibranium as well.

Consistency has often been one of Tchalla's greatest opponents. During Hudlin's run Tchalla confronted Doom on two occasions. Once with an armor and once without. Nuff said. One time uses or editorial lapses delete Tchalla's credibility and lend themselves to the deus ex machina effect.

If Hickman wishes to avoid the faux pas of some of his predecessors he better up Tchalla's battle strategies. Having the Black Panther jump on the back of the cosmic powered Terrax only to be swatted off like a minor annoyance does not bode well. It would have been better played if Tchalla suggested everyone fall back (without the short lived obligatory fisticuffs) and let Black bolt do his thing.

In the future Hickman should demonstrate the Black Panther's genius in solo efforts comparable to or surpassing the other members of the Illuminati  Personally I think Stark's Dyson Sphere was more impressive than the reverse engineered bomb it took both Reed and Tchalla to construct. Subjective I know, however Starks presentation outclassed them both.

And I shall attempt to refrain from discussing the fact that the Illuminati has been and is primarily comprised of white men. I guess no women of any race qualified for an invitation. Tchalla should have had Shuri represent him, thus killing two “minority” birds with one stone.

If Tchalla has any problem with Black Swan it should be that she gave the order that resulted in the death of 3 Wakandan children... unnecessarily I might add. If you want the Black Panther to appear bad ass his force shield should have protected the “Makers.” Not to mention the fact that Hickman could have written it so that Tchalla could have successfully teleported the children to the safety of the city. Since he didn't do either, he would definitely hold her accountable. Last and probably least, how does Black Swan get away with sitting in the Black Panther's Bast throne seat?...  ??? and without so much as a curt glance from the King. She doesn't hold membership.

It is most important that Tchalla follow through on his threat to Namor. If he does not kill him, which is more than likely the case, the Black Panther should brutally demonstrate the severity of his threat by decisively beating Namor within an inch of his life. Remember the Red Skull's broken jaw. Remember the Skrulls who attempted to infiltrate and colonize Wakanda. If  Hickman really wants to show off the Black Panther: next issue show Tchalla humiliating Doom in some significant way. For example by having Victor burn in his armor via the nanites Tchalla infested Doom's castle with when the New Avengers were there. Revenge is a dish best served hot.

Hickman's success in writing the Black Panther lies in his subtly introducing what I term the Panther Effect. Originally introduced by Kirby, deftly mastered by Priest and often dismissed by too many writers; the  Panther Effect is demonstrating the intelligence, powers, resources, prowess and attitude of Tchalla the Black Panther in a consistent, organic manner that would logically manifest in a given situation

Hickman like Priest, Hudlin and all his predecessors should be given the necessary time for character development and engaging story telling. So far he has written an entertaining tale that has both super-heroics and depth. Hickman has sown strong seeds for an emblematic rendering of the Black Panther, true to his potential... again only time will tell.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on April 28, 2013, 08:19:58 pm
I agree with most of what you said about "The King of The Dead" aspect and could care less about this new title!


The only real problem this franchise had was not the powers or the stories but the overall support and confidence in the character by Marvel as a whole!


The goalposts have not only been moved they have been teleported all over the place to prevent this character from making A-list status no matter what attempts are made to do so!


Until the parent company goes all in Black Panther will always be frontrunner out the gate character that loses fans along the way towards another cancellation!


And also the racism inside the editorial office either needs to be dealt with or just kill off all the black characters at Marvel openly and move on already!


Oh... And Storm and Wolverine are coming to Wakanda on Hickman's watch so that can mean only more chumping out T'challa via the X-office!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Booshman on April 28, 2013, 10:01:20 pm
I agree with most of what you said about "The King of The Dead" aspect and could care less about this new title!


The only real problem this franchise had was not the powers or the stories but the overall support and confidence in the character by Marvel as a whole!


The goalposts have not only been moved they have been teleported all over the place to prevent this character from making A-list status no matter what attempts are made to do so!


Until the parent company goes all in Black Panther will always be frontrunner out the gate character that loses fans along the way towards another cancellation!


And also the racism inside the editorial office either needs to be dealt with or just kill off all the black characters at Marvel openly and move on already!


Oh... And Storm and Wolverine are coming to Wakanda on Hickman's watch so that can mean only more chumping out T'challa via the X-office!

Armed with the " Deus Ex, X-Writer, Anti-Black Male Protocols". Which are not only more powerful, but predate "T'challa's Anti-Weather Protocols".
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on April 28, 2013, 10:07:30 pm
Yeah, the consistency will be compromised in one word: X-titles.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on April 29, 2013, 06:06:00 am
It is most important that Tchalla follow through on his threat to Namor. If he does not kill him, which is more than likely the case, the Black Panther should brutally demonstrate the severity of his threat by decisively beating Namor within an inch of his life. Remember the Red Skull's broken jaw. Remember the Skrulls who attempted to infiltrate and colonize Wakanda. If  Hickman really wants to show off the Black Panther: next issue show Tchalla humiliating Doom in some significant way. For example by having Victor burn in his armor via the nanites Tchalla infested Doom's castle with when the New Avengers were there. Revenge is a dish best served hot.

The last time this Black Panther fan remembers T'Challa administering a righteous and brutal beat down to an enemy was in Priest's run vs Kraven the Hunter. In that instance however, it appeared that Kraven "craved" the punishment he was absorbing. Other than T'Challa's dispatching Hudlin's "bizarro Klaw", the Panther has never - to my recollection - ever demonstrated/enjoyed the type of physical retribution he has deserved and his fans have desired.

T'Challa should have killed Anton Pretorious - the South African scumbag who'd abducted T'Challa's stepmother, holding her captive for decades, sexually assaulting her repeatedly and sending photos of those assaults to T'Chaka by means of tormenting him. T'Challa was about to do just that, but the writer in that case decided to allow Ramonda to persuade her son to allow Pretorious to live.

T'Challa should have beaten Killmonger more decisively than he has ever been portrayed as doing. Yes, T'Challa should have seriously "marked" Doom in some way as to be obvious from the end of doomwar going forward as punishment for the villian's attack on and defeat of Wakanda. Doom received more humiliation from the late Dr. Voodoo when the latter smote Doom on the nose and told him to "go home" in his short-lived Remender-written series. Cloak (Tyrone Johnson), realized a more satisfactory victory over Doom than did T'Challa.

The LCB-RD would not have tolerated T'Challa's humiliating/maiming of Doom following doomwar and I have no doubt the same is true where Namor is concerned.

Full disclosure, my Dear Friends...I have not read a comicbook in years and have only recently become acquainted with current developments concerning the Panther. I've only seen this Black Swan character through preview art and scans provided. IMO she is the "type" that has in the past seemed "physically attracted" to T'Challa...that "blonde bombshell" type. Susan Storm was a married woman. That didn't stop her from having the hots for T'Challa. T'Challa also had a significant romance with another Black Swan lookalike...Nikki whateverhernamewas.

Wouldn't it be something if Black Swan and Nikki were one and the same...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on April 29, 2013, 11:17:31 am
Once his design evolved beyond the name "Coal Tiger" and that clown suit concept discarded for the sleek, black Panther's "habit", T'Challa, the Black Panther has always been an exciting, enigmatic, visually-excellent character. It seems however, that the success he should have had as a character has always been hamstrung by the fact that T'Challa is a black man. T'Challa might be Marvel Comics' one and only character whose costume was designed so as not to offend the sensitivities of any fan who might not have opposed the black costume itself, but would have had a definite problem with the black character wearing the costume. There wasn't much of anything wrong with the "old" or original T'Challa.

While Tchalla has been given a new title, a new power, a new base of operations and some new equipment, I don't see Hickman's Black Panther as new as much as I see the incorporation and expansion on some of Black Panther's existing themes and that is a good thing if they remain cannon and are unchanging in achievement or effect over a period of time.

Exactly so.

With Mayberry being the single possible exception IMO, I don't have the "feeling" that those artists who have written the character ever did so with malice aforethought and premeditated designs that the Panther should fail. Blinded as I was by what I believed to be a highly annoying character - Everett Ross - I couldn't appreciate until years later, the sheer excellence of Christopher Priest's take on the character. His "A Man Called Hawk" Avery Brooks-like T'Challa is far and above the best rendition ever.

Hawkeye, who in my opinion has always been a whining, self-absorbed, pain in the ass with questionable taste in costume design, has long been a fan favorite of many members of the LCB-RD. Like Spider-Man/Peter Parker, Hawkeye appeals to the LCB-RD demographic in ways T'Challa never has and likely, never will. Some of them relate to certain aspects designed into those characters I'm not at all sure Marvel's creative talent is totally at fault for the Black Panther's failure to make A-List status. The LCB-RD is like the many NBA fans who resented the fact that LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, and Chris Bosh had the audacity to usurp the GM's position and form what by all appearances is a near-unbeatable team. The nerve of those 3 negroes. Unfortunately, there is no Doctor Doom to declare doomwar on the Miami Heat...no Namor to send a tsunami to wash them away.

So the LB-VD...(Larger Basketball-viewing Demographic), must suffer the successes of the Miami Heat choosing if they must, to give credit to the white coach of the team or "the Birdman", to make it easier to do so. If that member of the LB-VD also happens to belong to the LCB-RD, he might be able to find comfort in the pages of comicbooks featuring Doom's annihilation of Wakanda and emasculation of T'Challa, Namor's destruction of Wakanda and Ororo's/Logan's cuckolding of T'Challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on April 30, 2013, 02:37:46 pm
...If Hickman wishes to avoid the faux pas of some of his predecessors he better up Tchalla's battle strategies. Having the Black Panther jump on the back of the cosmic powered Terrax only to be swatted off like a minor annoyance does not bode well. It would have been better played if Tchalla suggested everyone fall back (without the short lived obligatory fisticuffs) and let Black bolt do his thing.

In the future Hickman should demonstrate the Black Panther's genius in solo efforts comparable to or surpassing the other members of the Illuminati  Personally I think Stark's Dyson Sphere was more impressive than the reverse engineered bomb it took both Reed and Tchalla to construct. Subjective I know, however Starks presentation outclassed them both.

As astute as ever Brother Ture!  I was disappointed at T'challa's mere nuisance of an attack on Terrax which was totally reminiscent of past supporting appearances relegating BP to an underpowered team player, game but posing no real threat to the enemy.  Shouldn't it have been a simple matter for T'Challa to evade Terrax's blow with the purpose of his attack being not only to distract the herald from Iron Man but to turn him into the path of Black Bolt, setting him up to deliver the coup de grace like an all-star point guard setting-up his big man for a slam dunk?  A missed opportunity to establish budding team rapport and effective field leadership for T'Challa without being accused of exaggerating his skill set.

It is starting to feel like Reed is the actual team leader in New Avengers too.  Here's hoping we don't continue to get more of the same ole, same ole!?!

Peace,

Mont 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 02, 2013, 02:44:05 am
True indeed Flex, as much as some people are confused about the reasons that manifest the current status of the Black Panther, I am convinced that the challenge has its origins in interpreting the culture, (an Afrakan one at that) of the Black Panther.

I see writer Paul Cornell and artist Alan Davis are doing a new arc entitled Killable in which Wolverine is suddenly capable of being killed. I've always understood Wolverine as being hard to kill not immortal. It comes out in August's Wolverine #8. The story begins with a trip to Wakanda  that brings the newly vulnerable Logan with Storm in tow into direct conflict with the Black Panther. Why we ask ourselves.  Any way for more info here's a link – http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=45156. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=45156.)

Sinjection  your thoughts mirror my own. The experimentation and the deconstruction that the Black Panther has undergone during Mayberry and Liss  is analogous to what happened to Afrakan people during the systematic deconstruction of  identity that comes from captivity and cultural enslavement.

Sometimes the Black Panther is a looking glass to me, one that reflects the cultural sign of the times that Afrakan people find themselves in.

The Black Panther was created in the sixties when Afrakan people were viewed as freeing their countries from colonial rule, fighting for Civil Rights, developing Black Power organizations and exploring the cultural mores that uniquely defined themselves. Lee and Kirby's reflects this.

During the seventies Afrkan people were viewed as being somewhat divorced from the "white main stream" often being seen as having their own world. The Black Panther reflected this insular tone in McGregors Panther's Rage.

The Black Panther under Priest was refocused and reinvigorated in the nineties just post the Afrocentric explosion. During the first half decade of the new millennium the Black Panther was reincarnated to be congruent with the Hip Hop generation by Hudlin.

Quote
His "A Man Called Hawk" Avery Brooks-like T'Challa is far and above the best rendition ever.

I most heartily concur.

Kimoyo as usual you and I see eye to eye on this. If Tchalla is the de facto leader then the book is not only going to have to center on him, it is going to have to make the Black Panther intelligently formidable. I think our real litmus test is coming soon with the Wakanda Atlantis war.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 04, 2013, 10:08:46 am
Right out the gate, I must say that my confidence in Hickman...while still strong...was shaken by how horrible TChalla looked vs Terrax. I completely agree that TChalla could have set up Black Bolt very skillfully and intelligently with a sensible application of his skill set.

For instance, a hyperquick series of nerve strikes and unbalancing martial arts techniques followed by a swift evasion of Terrax's expected counterattack, which sets Terrax directly in line for a combo Iron Man repulsor ray+whisper from Black Bolt coup de grace would be very effective.

I would actually prefer a full demo from the full team of the Illuminati, such as:

BEAST and TCHALLA use their massive genius in tandem with their physical prowess to engage Terrax via a combination of strikes and tech, which Terrax would show his formidable skills against. Terrax should be able to effectively neutralize the strikes and attacks of Beast and TChalla, but only after suffering the nerve strike damage and martial arts powered unbalancing and height width and depth manipulation that places him in the ideal position for Reed Richard's and Iron Man's intelligent hypertech cosmic power draining assault...the majority of which Terrax would neutralize. As expected.

Namor in the interim has flown around Terrax, grabbed a massive rock, and flies at Terrax from the rear. Terrax uses his cosmic power to destroy the hurled rock. Beast activates a fission particle gas cone on Terrax, causing him pain before Terrax neutralizes it. TChalla uses a version of the same force field he dropped on Mephisto to temporarily make Terrax vulnerable to physical attacks, then follows with a combination hyper speed side kick to Terrax's plantar--bending Terrax backward--and driving his disruption energy dagger into Terrax's hand, weakening Terrax's grip on his massive battle axe.

Terrax counterattacks with a massive blade swing, which would have decapitated TChalla if it landed, but TChalla acrobatically bounds over Terrax's head , thus eluding the blow.

At that precise instant, Namor and Hank simultaneously attack. Namor takes advantage of the position that TChalla manipulated Terrax into being with the kick to Terrax's plantar by landing a massive full strength blow on Terrax, while at that exact moment the bounding Beast does a Blanka attack on Terrax, wresting Terrax's axe from his grasp.

Terrax counters with a mighty blow to Namor, sending him flying.

These previous Illuminati attacks were setups for Dr. Strange and Black Bolt to finish Terrax with their coup de grace: Terrax's cosmic power has been drained sufficiently enough for Dr. Strange to easily entrap Terrax in the Rings of Raggador, and Black Bolt KO's him with his power.

At the end of this assault, TChalla--referring to the disagreement that Reed and he had regarding reverse engineering the bomb Black Swan had--can say to Reed: "Apparently the sword and the scalpel can be used quite well in concert during combat."

Reed: "Agreed. You Namor and Hank did a genius job of nerve strikes and physical placement of Terrax for the followup assaults that we launched. It took me a moment to divine the specifics of your plan against Terrax, TChalla. Well done."
   
"You, Doctor Strange and Black Bolt should be equally commended. The finish was intelligently and skillfully executed." TChalla replies.

Or something similar.

However, it's also very easy to Monday morning quarterback this situation. I still have confidence in Hickman, and I hope that the rest of this year's stories and the rest of the series makes amends for what I hope to be aberrations in TChalla's depiction and expands TChalla's formidable skills beyond that of all previous predecessors.

But I must confess...these next two events...the fight with Namor and the upcoming visit of Logan and Ororo [ something I had NO IDEA was coming ] will be true tests. I expect TChalla to get chumped out by the X-Office in that "Killable" thing...something I never heard of until now...but I hope and pray that Hickman has TChalla put serious hands on Namor, and perhaps be stopped from killing Namor by Reed Richards Black Bolt and Beast.

Or better yet, TChalla kills Namor, but Doctor Strange brings him back because they still need him for some upcoming event.

Honestly, though...I don't see TChalla fighting Namor until he's neutralized the Incursions Threat and The Great Destroyer. Which it seems they'll be doing by book 6, thus setting up the throwdown between TChalla and Namor in book 7 or whatever it is.

And Doom is very much overdo for a beatdown, but I don't see Hickman letting Doom getting merked by TChalla. Maybe a good smacking after they all jointly halt the Incursion. I am actually very much looking forward to this issue, because I can see how the scheming TChalla may forego laying a finger on Doom because TChalla's needs--saving the planet and this universe--vastly outweigh his wants--putting Doom in a box for his incursion on Wakanda. Even though TChalla already humbled Doom in front of the whole world with a flick of the switch.

Everybody forgets that about Doomwar. TChalla clowned Doom in the end with a flick of a switch. That's...embarrassing. Not anywhere near as satisfying a much deserved, much needed to give TChalla his props, thorough beatdown and comprehensive humbling of Doom FOLLOWED BY a flick of the switch neutralizing all of Doom's advances across the world.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 04, 2013, 06:04:43 pm
And yet the entire cast got their asses handled to them but Black Bolt (rightfully so) and for some reason that isnt enough? This is a man of cosmic abilities. I dont care how smart they are all Black Bolt is pretty much the powerhouse and big fist of the group as he should be.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 04, 2013, 07:53:30 pm
I have no problem with Black Bolt being the Powerhouse component of the team, but this is supposed to be a badass team of capable individuals not to be trifled with.  While Terrax is a powerful entity and a credible enemy he is not someone that anyone of these Avengers couldn't conceivably figure out how to handle alone.  The scenario presented did not appropriately represent the abilities of this team.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 04, 2013, 11:14:07 pm
To add to the last two posts, Namor did absolutely nothing after getting smacked away.  He did less than T'Challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 05, 2013, 05:20:23 am
I have no problem with Black Bolt being the Powerhouse component of the team, but this is supposed to be a badass team of capable individuals not to be trifled with.  While Terrax is a powerful entity and a credible enemy he is not someone that anyone of these Avengers couldn't conceivably figure out how to handle alone.  The scenario presented did not appropriately represent the abilities of this team.

Peace,

Mont

I don't think it was meant to be.  I think it was more the cliff notes version of the fight t than the actual fight.  It wasn't impotent enough of a conflict to earn a full fight, just cliff notes.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 05, 2013, 06:15:52 am
Teamwork and tactical engagements have often been demonstrated as an after thought. There isn't much thinking in the slugfests comicbook fans have come to expect and appreciate. For superheroes like the Thing, Hercules, The Hulk and Thor etc. brawling is trademark and works for them.

This methodology works against a powerhouse like Superman simply because of the variety of powers and the education he received. It often makes him look feeble and demonstrates way too much vulnerability.

Nonstrategic engagements are antithetical to the Black Panther. Tchalla's very inception and first appearance posits his abilities as one who manifests extensive and detailed preparation. This ability was ignored soon after during McGregor's, Thomas' and Kirby's runs on the character. Of all the writers of the Black Pather, Priest proved to be the most deft in articulating Tchalla's gifts in this area.

Blackbolt being the powerhouse of New Avengers is fine but without doubt or hesitation the Black Panther should be the strategic master of the team. In this Kimoyo and I agree.

Namor and Iron man could almost be considered jobbers. This team should face anything short of incursion level, cosmos shaking  events with a facile decorum. While I agree with Kip about this being the abbreviated version it still demonstrates a lack of tactical expertise.

So while Hickman is presenting us with the best interpretation of the Black Panther post Hudlin, he has to be mindful of that  residue of impotence that too often plagued the Black Panther.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 05, 2013, 08:07:12 am
So basically "they didnt use enough of their mind" to take this guy down. If it wasnt for BP Iron Man would've been cut in half. What more do you want? I get it if BP for some reason had some type of a back up prep time gadget sitting around then it is all good.


I have no problem with Black Bolt being the Powerhouse component of the team, but this is supposed to be a badass team of capable individuals not to be trifled with.  While Terrax is a powerful entity and a credible enemy he is not someone that anyone of these Avengers couldn't conceivably figure out how to handle alone.  The scenario presented did not appropriately represent the abilities of this team.

Peace,

Mont
They are a "badass team of capable individuals" for earthlings. This is a herald of galactus.  You cannot convince me that any other minus Black Bolt can handle him alone. I would call BS for anyone of them all.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 05, 2013, 08:40:52 am
I have returned from the void.

Let all funny style/double-speak TROLL's be on notice.

For the record, every member of the Illuminati that went up against Terrax got their asses handed to them.

T'Challa was the only one who actually got to lay what would have been a mortal wound on anyone other than a cosmically imbued being so I'm not sure what the problem is here?

I agree with the general spirit of Ture's post for the most part, but find that some of the expectations being placed on him at this juncture are a bit over the top.

And as for the King of The Dead angle, let's just say that it provides an interesting divergence from what has actually gone before with T'Challa now being powered up to levels that should have been mainstays of his abilities right from the get go or at least, as a evolutionary character standpoint over a period of time.

It would be cool if Hickman is given the opportunity to first build T'Challa's character back up via the New Avengers title enough to gain the momentum required for a possible solo BP monthly in the future as opposed to just sitting back and picking holes in what he's done so far.

And as for Black Swan or (B-Swizzle as some on CBR have taken to calling her) let's just say that she's a much more intriguing character to me than Storm is as currently portrayed in the X-books so yeah, her profiling on the seat of Bast isn't a problem to me at all.

She tends to make anything she sits on look like a throne even when she's "locked" within an energy cell.

Ahhh, it's good to be back.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 05, 2013, 12:46:26 pm
For me, BmoreAkuma, it was just a simple case of everyone falling back and letting Blackbolt handle the business of defeating Terrax; because some members are familiar with Terrax, I would like to think that they would know how to best utilize their collective abilities against him.

On the solo tip I think Dr. Strange maybe able to succeed. He did after all stun Galactus by making him witness/feel all the deaths he has caused. Tchalla maybe able to succeed with prep time and the cosmic energy draining harness he used against Galactus' first herald.  The same maybe said of Reed and Tony and quite possibly Hank.

Welcome back Salustrade.

My wife pointed out that very fact and I agreed with it. No problem. I just would have preferred Tchalla leaping off Terrax's back instead of being swatted off. If Tchalla is as smart as we claim, he simply could have attacked Terrax from a distance.

I have very few expectations where the Black Panther is concerned and thus leesen the opportunity for disappointment. I am however interested in nuance and details and I think Hickman is too. He has done a good enough job so far that I am intersted in what follows.

"
Quote
And as for the King of The Dead angle, let's just say that it provides an interesting divergence from what has actually gone before with T'Challa now being powered up to levels that should have been mainstays of his abilities right from the get go or at least, as a evolutionary character standpoint over a period of time.

I agree and await demonstration of these power ups.

I think Hickman has been given the opportunity to build up the Black Panther and is doing a credible job thus far. His story telling is like reading a science fantasy novel featuring  my favorite superhero.

As for Black Swan, again Hickman is developing her into an intriguing character. If Black Swan were Afrakan (with aesthetics and heritage earmarking such) I would have some interest in them as a romantic couple. I just don't want Black Panther to go all House of Lies.

As for Black Swan profiling on the throne of Bast; Black Panther should have demonstrated that collar he gave her had an obedience setting (think Star Trek TOS episode Gamester of Triskelion) and had her presumptuous ass wipe her spittle off the floor. Again not a problem... just having some fun. ;D ;D ;D

I despise what has been done to the marriage of Tchalla and Ororo and am greatly disappointed with Storm's current status. Hickman demonstrating what he could have done with a Black Panther and Storm pairing would have been interesting. Maybe someday in the near future he may get the chance.

I also think I would appreciate Hickman creating a new Dora Milaje for Tchalla; with the same attention to detail that has been given to Black Swan she could be a hit.  She could be both insular to the greater Marvel U and unencumbered by its continuity.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 05, 2013, 02:30:41 pm
So basically "they didnt use enough of their mind" to take this guy down. If it wasnt for BP Iron Man would've been cut in half. What more do you want? I get it if BP for some reason had some type of a back up prep time gadget sitting around then it is all good.


I have no problem with Black Bolt being the Powerhouse component of the team, but this is supposed to be a badass team of capable individuals not to be trifled with.  While Terrax is a powerful entity and a credible enemy he is not someone that anyone of these Avengers couldn't conceivably figure out how to handle alone.  The scenario presented did not appropriately represent the abilities of this team.

Peace,

Mont
They are a "badass team of capable individuals" for earthlings. This is a herald of galactus.  You cannot convince me that any other minus Black Bolt can handle him alone. I would call BS for anyone of them all.

Doctor Doom handled a Herald and The Beyonder from Secret Wars himself. Doctor Doom stole Galactus' power.

Every single person in The Illuminati can handle Doctor Doom...

...and for the record? I really and truly believe that Namor's intelligence is sharply underwritten. We don't seen his IQ in action in practically any incarnation, and we only get rare glimpes of what should be a steady diet of genius with Hank.

Both Thor and Hercules would've acquired literally immortal battle genius over their millenia of battling immortal opposition. Their wisdom and battle acumen are hugely underplayed. I would write them as true immortals.

In short? The Illuminati is all that and then some. I agree with Kimoyo.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 05, 2013, 04:19:09 pm
And Doom is very much overdo for a beatdown, but I don't see Hickman letting Doom getting merked by TChalla.

Unless it's a Doombot, I concur with you Dear Brother. Hickman is an employee of Marvel Comics and as such, answerable to the preferences of the LCB-RD. Historically, this demographic has proven to be largely indifferent to the Panther while Dr. Doom is a perennial favorite. I seem to recall reading a few sour LCB-RD-written posts expressing disdain for the Hudlin-written results of the first meeting/fight between Captain America and T'Chaka. They weren't happy campers. Money talks and in this case, money = LCB-RD preference. If I had to hazard a guess I'd say LCB-RD favor would be thus: Doom > Black Panther; Namor > Black Panther.....Power Pack > Black Panther.

Quote
Maybe a good smacking after they all jointly halt the Incursion. I am actually very much looking forward to this issue, because I can see how the scheming TChalla may forego laying a finger on Doom because TChalla's needs--saving the planet and this universe--vastly outweigh his wants--putting Doom in a box for his incursion on Wakanda.

Again - aside from scant information gleaned through previews of the book and chit chat in internet forums, I am completely ignorant of the New Avengers story. I have neither purchased nor read a comicbook in years. IMHO however, this T'Challa "King of the Dead" reminds me of the old Transformers story of Optimus Prime's return from the dead.

All existence was threatened by a malevolence which dwarfed that of the Decepticons. Indeed, if I remember correctly, the Autobots and Decepticons  combined forces to combat the menace. To defeat said menace, Optimus Prime had to exhaust the near-infinte resources of the Matrix, taking unto himself all the knowledge of every leader of the Autobots. This enabled the Autobot/Decepticon forces to overcome the menace. Victorious, Galvatron (formerly Megatron -not Calvin Johnson), expressed his respect - if not friendship - for Optimus Prime, leaving in peace to fight again another day. I surely hope the New Avengers story won't end with T'Challa being satisfied with saving the earth and in gratitude, sending Doom and Namor off to live their lives with nothing more than a snarl and stern warning not to cross him again...or else



Quote
Even though TChalla already humbled Doom in front of the whole world with a flick of the switch. Everybody forgets that about Doomwar. TChalla clowned Doom in the end with a flick of a switch. That's...embarrassing. Not anywhere near as satisfying a much deserved, much needed to give TChalla his props, thorough beatdown and comprehensive humbling of Doom FOLLOWED BY a flick of the switch neutralizing all of Doom's advances across the world.

In retrospect, it seems to me that Maberry's intent might have been to elevate Shuri as Black Panther while not necessarily emasculating T'Challa in the process. But I can't get past the fact that T'Challa spent most of Doomwar in a cave while females carried the battle to Doom. I can't get past the fact that when T'Challa finally met Doom on the field of battle, he essentially complemented him - telling him that he was one of the greatest minds on the planet and a benevolent leader of his people before detailing the egregious offenses he committed against the Wakandan people including the murder of his uncle not to mention the torment he inflicted on his Mother and wife. He then asked Doom to "stand down" in the "name of peace and sanity". This is how the LCB-RD likes the Black Panther. They don't want him "arrogant" and "confident" as he is currently being written. They enjoy seeing him get in exactly 2 punches on Doom before being beaten down physically.

Yes, T'Challa thwarted Doom's plans but not before receiving a lecture on the hubris of the Black Panther and Wakanda where their Vibranium was concerned. After conceding that Doom was correct about himself and Wakanda, it was then T'Challa flicked the switch - stopping Doom, but destroying Wakanda's chief asset and throwing his nation into and even more chaotic situation.

As a Black Panther fan, I would rather have seen Doom savagely attacked and seriously maimed by a righteously-vengeful T'Challa. Now, I understand Namor flooded Wakanda recently, killing untold thousands. When Phoenix-possessed Jean Grey destroyed a planet, she had to pay with her life. Wakanda isn't a planet, but Phoenix-possessed Namor killed thousands of African people whose champion is a character much of the LCB-RD regards with indifference.

I don't see Namor getting off any worse than did Doom, I'm afraid to say.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 05, 2013, 05:23:38 pm
Welcome back Salustrade.

Seconded!

Quote
My wife pointed out that very fact and I agreed with it. No problem. I just would have preferred Tchalla leaping off Terrax's back instead of being swatted off. If Tchalla is as smart as we claim, he simply could have attacked Terrax from a distance.

From what I've gathered, Terrax - a herald of Galactus - put a serious whupping on this powerful team of superheroes. T'Challa's attack was of its usual, stealthy, cat-like character, but ineffectual against Terrax. Something to be expected, perhaps...but I seem to remember Spider-Man taking down Firelord - another herald of Galactus - by himself. No Avengers. No Black Bolt. Spider-Man went toe-to-toe against Firelord and won.

T'Challa has the ability to cloak his presence and has been imbued with the knowledge and strength of every Black Panther who has existed before Shuri and himself. Roy Thomas' version of the Black Panther might have executed the same tactic against a being like Terrax. The only possible difference is that Thomas' Panther might not have had the physical strength to embed the blade into Terrax' back.

If Spider-Man could take down Firelord, I certainly hope T'Challa is able to present a stern test to Namor at least. Like you Brother Ture, I hope these "power ups" evidence something more than Maberry's "enhancements". If these "super abilities" are to be of any character-upgrade significance, T'Challa has to be able to do more than kick down massive steel reinforced security doors and survive being swatted away by a herald of Galactus.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Moose100 on May 05, 2013, 06:26:54 pm
I love the New Avengers Title. If it wasn't for Hickman leading the charge. I would of charged Marvel to the game.

The only thing I want to point out is that Hickman was handed a compromised Panther by the likes of Maberry taking that title away from him. Hickman probably saw this as an opportunity to augment the character in a n organic and forward way.

HIckman tells his story nice and slow. All of what he has written isn't really getting into the emat of his story yet. We are still more or less in a prelude phase.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 05, 2013, 06:32:18 pm
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d2/DrDoomSquirrels.png)

I guess squirrel girl should be able to handle the Illuminati.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 05, 2013, 09:45:30 pm
For the record, every member of the Illuminati that went up against Terrax got their asses handed to them.

T'Challa was the only one who actually got to lay what would have been a mortal wound on anyone other than a cosmically imbued being so I'm not sure what the problem is here?

I agree with the general spirit of Ture's post for the most part, but find that some of the expectations being placed on him at this juncture are a bit over the top.

Simply put, T'Challa's tactical and physical abilities should make him very difficult to swat especially when he is fresh and rested or unimpaired.  I agree that what was portrayed was a recap of the battle but that fact in itself was somewhat disappointing after the tease from the last ish.  I see no reason why the recap couldn't have shown T'Challa avoiding Terrax's swat, deftly setting him up for Black Bolt.  BB gets the bucket but BP gets the assist.  This would have been reasonable, logical and a welcome departure from an old unflattering stereotype.

For whoever calls BS on T'Challa taking down Terrax on his own, I seem to recall a clever brother laying out a scientific explanation for a pre-King of the Dead T'Challa knocking out Mephisto with one punch.  With a little imagination Batman can take out Superman and the whole Justice League but BP couldn't possibly take out Terrax!?!  BS right back at ya!

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 05, 2013, 10:28:35 pm
Don't get it twisted Bmoreakuma. I have no respect for jobbing out superheroes. The embarrassment Doom suffered under Squirrel girl attack was insultingly ridiculous, it even lacked levity. The same goes for Luke Cage beating Doom. It was the height of insult to witness Batman kicking the Hulk in the solar plexus thus making him inhale knock out gas. Storm troopers being beaten by teddybears, I mean Ewoks! I could go on ad nauseum.

In agreement with you Moose100.

And for you brother Sinjection 1 I present a preview of the issue under discussion:

http://pulllist.comixology.com/previews/feb130505/0/ (http://pulllist.comixology.com/previews/feb130505/0/)


Now witness the Black Panther's rebirth as the King of the Dead.

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/fantasticfourbp.jpg)

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/pantherreborn.png)

In addition here are the covers to the first issue

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/newavengerscover1.jpg)

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/cover1a.jpg)

and finally of things to come.

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/panthervsnamor1.jpg)





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 06, 2013, 01:56:21 am
For the record, every member of the Illuminati that went up against Terrax got their asses handed to them.

T'Challa was the only one who actually got to lay what would have been a mortal wound on anyone other than a cosmically imbued being so I'm not sure what the problem is here?

I agree with the general spirit of Ture's post for the most part, but find that some of the expectations being placed on him at this juncture are a bit over the top.

Simply put, T'Challa's tactical and physical abilities should make him very difficult to swat especially when he is fresh and rested or unimpaired.  I agree that what was portrayed was a recap of the battle but that fact in itself was somewhat disappointing after the tease from the last ish.  I see no reason why the recap couldn't have shown T'Challa avoiding Terrax's swat, deftly setting him up for Black Bolt.  BB gets the bucket but BP gets the assist.  This would have been reasonable, logical and a welcome departure from an old unflattering stereotype.

For whoever calls BS on T'Challa taking down Terrax on his own, I seem to recall a clever brother laying out a scientific explanation for a pre-King of the Dead T'Challa knocking out Mephisto with one punch.  With a little imagination Batman can take out Superman and the whole Justice League but BP couldn't possibly take out Terrax!?!  BS right back at ya!

Peace,

Mont
I guess you're cool with Deathstroke handling of the justice league too. He is a Batman rouge so yea totally. Just cause one thing happen it must happen for another no matter how bogus it is. So again Squirrel girl need to be apart of the Illuminati just cause she defeated Doctor Doom and other "major villians"


Don't get it twisted Bmoreakuma. I have no respect for jobbing out superheroes. The embarrassment Doom suffered under Squirrel girl attack was insultingly ridiculous, it even lacked levity. The same goes for Luke Cage beating Doom. It was the height of insult to witness Batman kicking the Hulk in the solar plexus thus making him inhale knock out gas. Storm troopers being beaten by teddybears, I mean Ewoks! I could go on ad nauseum.
That is pretty much where I was coming from. The utter ridiculousness of many of these "fighting encounters" is truly bogus and laughable. "well so and so defeated so and so, so he/she should defeat so and so".
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 06, 2013, 05:21:49 am
I am a confirmed Black Panther enthusiast with extensive knowledge of the character and his mythos.

Like most of you posting in this thread and the forum at large, I've followed T'Challa's ups and downs under different writers dating back to Stan Lee and Jack Kirby's original launch of the character back in 1966 all the way through to Jonathan Hickman's current portrayal of T'Challa in New Avengers so all I'm going to say at this juncture is that heads need to excercise a lot more patience with Hickman than seems to be the case at present.

No one twisted Hickman's arm to get him to include T'Challa in his take on New Avengers or even go further to make the character and his ancient nation central to the group (unlike others who only remember to use Wakanda when they need a convenient nation to annihilate.) so yeah, I do take some of the criticism and mistrust Hickman is facing from some quarters with a pinch of salt.

Hickman has stated quite clearly, that he actually wanted to have T'Challa and Ororo still involved with each other leading on from David Liss's Black Panther: Most Dangerous Man Alive book but guess what, he was blocked by the X-office in much the same way that David Liss was blocked fro including Ororo in T'Challa's adventures so it's not as if he wasn't interested in writing them as a married couple.

The X-office wasn't having it, and after all of the anti-Wakanda events that occured during AvX and the continued subliminal disses in associated X-books featuring Storm, it becomes quite clear why the X-office refused to allow both Liss and Hickman to feature Ororo interacting favourably with her (then) husband.

So lets place the blame where it's most warranted thank you very much.

If Jonathan Hickman continues to develop T'Challa as he's currently doing in New Avengers, it's more than likely that a Black Panther monthly solo joint may once again become a viable proposition.

For right now, T'Challa is part of an ensemble cast and as such, he can't be expected to carry the day on his lonesome all the time.

I have no doubt that Hickman has some interesting times in store for T'Challa as the pace of action increases so lets sit back and observe as a master scripter brings T'Challa to the fore kicking crazy amounts of enemy ass.

Patience my friends, patience.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/fxuvdz.jpg)
(http://i34.tinypic.com/24438z6.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2i8f1qq.jpg)

On another note, I'm really enjoying the interactions between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru. (Black Swan)

I'm also enjoying this interaction for the fact that so many haters are whining about T'Challa and Black Swan teasing each other with some claiming that the likes of Strange, Doom and Namor would be more her style which kind of mirrors what was being said about Ororo, where most of these hating clowns felt Ororo would be better off with everyone from Doom to Dracula just because they couldn't stand the thought of her with T'Challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 06, 2013, 07:57:23 am
Not sure what the problem is.

Terrax is a Herald of Galactus. They are no joke.

The only person in the Illuminati that has anything for him physically is Black Bolt possibly Doc Strange.

The last time the Fantastic Four fought him they just called in the Silver Surfer to beat him up for them.

If those guys rush him as a group it goes down about the way it did.

Black Panther (and Reed for that matter) need prep to take on a Herald, without it he (and Reed) is a punching bag. The whole point of the FF is to take a beating while Reed build his anti whatever device. It's not like they ever beat Terrax outright.

If anybody Jobbed in that fight it was Sub Mariner and maybe Doc.

But even if they had done more they couldn't have stopped him.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 06, 2013, 08:56:53 am
Thank you brother Ture for the brilliant visual aids/bringing me further along in grasping the particulars of the current developments regarding the Black Panther...or is it simply T'Challa? As I recall, before stepping away from you my brothers and Dear Friends and this pasttime I once enjoyed, Shuri was the Black Panther. T'Challa was a cracked shell of himself who under self-imposed exile undertook a life-reevaluating course of action in which I suspicion, he accomplished nothing of any real consequence.

"King of the Dead", he is now. Ture, as I looked on the graphics you provided, my mind immediately returned to the very excellent title you gave this topic: New Avengers...okay. New Black Panther...maybe; maybe not. We'll see. New Black Power? And there it is! Since his creation, writers have tried to find and present the real essence of the Black Panther. As I indicated earlier, I'm inclined to believe that with the possible exception of Maberry who might have had greater interest in promoting Shuri as the new and viable Black Panther, every writer who tackled T'Challa, the Black Panther made a good faith attempt to portray a noble, regal, enigmatic, dynamic, formidable character. He was spoken of as being in the same class as Captain America.

This "King of the Dead" might have been accomplished years ago when in the story written by Peter Gillis, T'Challa was tested by the Panther God itself who was at that time, none too pleased with the Black Panther. The "King of the Dead" IMO is simply a different way of portraying the results of the Gillis story, a story in which T'Challa - bereft of the favor and power of the Panther God - defeated a team of super-powered white villians from the racist nation of Azania.

The Panther has always been a worthy character. The issue has always been this noble, regal, formidable black man bearing the name Black Panther has presented a symbol of black power in Marvel Comics and the comicbook industry as a whole and it is that reality which has worked to keep T'Challa a lesser character than we all know he deserves. Marvel Comics has demonstrated through its treatment of the Black Panther and most of the black male mutants it has created, that LCB-RD power trumps black power everytime.

In nature, a cheetah < a leopard < a lion < a tiger. In short, the most powerful tiger will always win out. In Marvel Comics, Daredevil < Luke Cage. Daredevil has no true super power. He does not have steel-like skin. Cage has both of those attributes Daredevil lacks, but I have a book in which Daredevil and Cage sparred and Daredevil was able to raise lumps and bruises on Cage and not only that...cause Cage to bleed. Cage has been gunshot point blank and those wounds produced no blood, at most, only an indentation where the impact occurred. Why was DD able to accomplish this? Because the writer wrote it so. Who's to complain about Cage being "jobbed"? Black folks don't buy comics in the numbers of the LCB-RD. This is why when given the "Marriage Of The Century", those fans of the marriage could not sustain it as much of the more demonstrative LCB-RD, many of those being x-fans, despised the marriage and wanted it ended.

Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 06, 2013, 09:18:54 am
Especially when many of these readers call him a "Marty Stu"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 06, 2013, 09:40:24 am
Especially when many of these readers call him a "Marty Stu"

A...who?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 06, 2013, 12:26:58 pm
A...who?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations)

Basically they complain that he is "too perfect"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 06, 2013, 12:28:46 pm
Thank you brother Ture for the brilliant visual aids/bringing me further along in grasping the particulars of the current developments regarding the Black Panther...or is it simply T'Challa? As I recall, before stepping away from you my brothers and Dear Friends and this pasttime I once enjoyed, Shuri was the Black Panther. T'Challa was a cracked shell of himself who under self-imposed exile undertook a life-reevaluating course of action in which I suspicion, he accomplished nothing of any real consequence.

"King of the Dead", he is now. Ture, as I looked on the graphics you provided, my mind immediately returned to the very excellent title you gave this topic: New Avengers...okay. New Black Panther...maybe; maybe not. We'll see. New Black Power? And there it is! Since his creation, writers have tried to find and present the real essence of the Black Panther. As I indicated earlier, I'm inclined to believe that with the possible exception of Maberry who might have had greater interest in promoting Shuri as the new and viable Black Panther, every writer who tackled T'Challa, the Black Panther made a good faith attempt to portray a noble, regal, enigmatic, dynamic, formidable character. He was spoken of as being in the same class as Captain America.

This "King of the Dead" might have been accomplished years ago when in the story written by Peter Gillis, T'Challa was tested by the Panther God itself who was at that time, none too pleased with the Black Panther. The "King of the Dead" IMO is simply a different way of portraying the results of the Gillis story, a story in which T'Challa - bereft of the favor and power of the Panther God - defeated a team of super-powered white villians from the racist nation of Azania.

The Panther has always been a worthy character. The issue has always been this noble, regal, formidable black man bearing the name Black Panther has presented a symbol of black power in Marvel Comics and the comicbook industry as a whole and it is that reality which has worked to keep T'Challa a lesser character than we all know he deserves. Marvel Comics has demonstrated through its treatment of the Black Panther and most of the black male mutants it has created, that LCB-RD power trumps black power everytime.

In nature, a cheetah < a leopard < a lion < a tiger. In short, the most powerful tiger will always win out. In Marvel Comics, Daredevil < Luke Cage. Daredevil has no true super power. He does not have steel-like skin. Cage has both of those attributes Daredevil lacks, but I have a book in which Daredevil and Cage sparred and Daredevil was able to raise lumps and bruises on Cage and not only that...cause Cage to bleed. Cage has been gunshot point blank and those wounds produced no blood, at most, only an indentation where the impact occurred. Why was DD able to accomplish this? Because the writer wrote it so. Who's to complain about Cage being "jobbed"? Black folks don't buy comics in the numbers of the LCB-RD. This is why when given the "Marriage Of The Century", those fans of the marriage could not sustain it as much of the more demonstrative LCB-RD, many of those being x-fans, despised the marriage and wanted it ended.

Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.

Then maybe it's time we stop worrying about what the LCB-RD clowwns like and start focusing on supporting a writer who actually wants to write T'Challa as opposed to one who just wants to use the character as a stepping stone to other writing gigs within Marvel. (Maberry)

I've never seen T'Challa as being a lesser character to any other characters and choose to support him and anyone actually writing him properly.

Hickman is doing that presently, so he has my unswerving support until he proves unworthy of it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: JRCarter on May 06, 2013, 12:37:24 pm
A...who?

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations[/url])

Basically they complain that he is "too perfect"


Of course, because he's Black and competent and not a sidekick.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 06, 2013, 02:53:43 pm
Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.

Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 06, 2013, 04:14:58 pm
Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.


Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont


So let me get this correct,

Cat's are complaining that T'Challa's full skill set as a master tactitian was not employed against Terrax and that in addition to that, he was "swatted away" by Terrax even though he was the only combatant to actually strike what would have been a killing blow on a non-cosmically enhanced opponent?

Well, I guess T'Challa's much vaunted tactical awareness and supreme prep time protocols weren't that much of a big deal to some of you when this happened......

(http://i41.tinypic.com/2m2umfc.jpg)
(http://i39.tinypic.com/10mmsjo.jpg)
(http://i44.tinypic.com/35k68ad.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/357o9ht.jpg)

Dude was written walking blind into a meeting with Namor without letting anyone in Wakanda know where he was going. (Tactical blunder numero uno).

Rolling with just three Dora milaje's and none of his augmented armor or weaponry. (Tactical blunder numero dos)

And finally, walking right into the fully armored and "backed up to the teeth by automatons" Doctor Doom before being summarily blasted in the face by the aforementioned good Doctor after falling for the ol' Doombot ploy. (Tactical blunder numero tres)

Yeah, I see how that advanced prep thing works now. :smdh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 06, 2013, 05:11:58 pm
All I have to say is that Tchalla saved Iron Mans life. And that counts the most
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 06, 2013, 05:26:09 pm
All I have to say is that Tchalla saved Iron Mans life. And that counts the most


Agreed 100%.

(http://i49.tinypic.com/fxx7qc.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1zdu8wk.jpg)
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Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2013, 05:34:34 pm
Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.


Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont


So let me get this correct,

Cat's are complaining that T'Challa's full skill set as a master tactitian was not employed against Terrax and that in addition to that, he was "swatted away" by Terrax even though he was the only combatant to actually strike what would have been a killing blow on a non-cosmically enhanced opponent?

Well, I guess T'Challa's much vaunted tactical awareness and supreme prep time protocols weren't that much of a big deal to some of you when this happened......

([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/2m2umfc.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i39.tinypic.com/10mmsjo.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/35k68ad.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/357o9ht.jpg[/url])

Dude was written walking blind into a meeting with Namor without letting anyone in Wakanda know where he was going. (Tactical blunder numero uno).

Rolling with just three Dora milaje's and none of his augmented armor or weaponry. (Tactical blunder numero dos)

And finally, walking right into the fully armored and "backed up to the teeth by automatons" Doctor Doom before being summarily blasted in the face by the aforementioned good Doctor after falling for the ol' Doombot ploy. (Tactical blunder numero tres)

Yeah, I see how that advanced prep thing works now. :smdh:



Actually, that DID draw a strong reaction from most of us...but we knew what was going on.

Reggie Reg...Mr. R to the H...wrote that book. The same guy who resurrected BP, actually made him an A-Lister, and wrote the Blackest, most hardcore BP in history. The guy who pulled off the Marriage of the Century. The guy who had TChalla just pimp slapping people. The first and only guy to write not just one but TWO Panthers beating Steve Rogers. The first and only guy to write TChalla handily overwhelming Logan. The guy who made the hatas recognize TChalla's supergenius IQ, despite the definitive genius work of the much overlooked Priest. This is the only guy to write more than 2 Black heroes together on the same panel in Black comic working as a team in a Black city without a White hero in sight or needed
.
This guy got Marvel to include TChalla in major events and not as a chump  or Affirmative Action point all the time, either...whereas they ignored and demeaned TChalla as a matter of course prior to RH. This is the guy that EJD wrote proving that TChaka ( retconned to Azziri ) whoopin Cap was not due to the Heart Shaped Herb, as the HSH is not a SSS knockoff.

This guy wrote FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS.

So yeah, we look at this whole Doom RH differently. We know RH BP wouldn't sell out cuz RH won't sell out. We know that RH would have BP handing out severe beatdowns to Doom.

Other writers? Nah. Not them.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 06, 2013, 05:45:53 pm
Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.


Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont


So let me get this correct,

Cat's are complaining that T'Challa's full skill set as a master tactitian was not employed against Terrax and that in addition to that, he was "swatted away" by Terrax even though he was the only combatant to actually strike what would have been a killing blow on a non-cosmically enhanced opponent?

Well, I guess T'Challa's much vaunted tactical awareness and supreme prep time protocols weren't that much of a big deal to some of you when this happened......

([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/2m2umfc.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i39.tinypic.com/10mmsjo.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/35k68ad.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/357o9ht.jpg[/url])

Dude was written walking blind into a meeting with Namor without letting anyone in Wakanda know where he was going. (Tactical blunder numero uno).

Rolling with just three Dora milaje's and none of his augmented armor or weaponry. (Tactical blunder numero dos)

And finally, walking right into the fully armored and "backed up to the teeth by automatons" Doctor Doom before being summarily blasted in the face by the aforementioned good Doctor after falling for the ol' Doombot ploy. (Tactical blunder numero tres)

Yeah, I see how that advanced prep thing works now. :smdh:



Actually, that DID draw a strong reaction from most of us...but we knew what was going on.

Reggie Reg...Mr. R to the H...wrote that book. The same guy who resurrected NP, actually made him an A-Lister, and wrote the Blackest, most hardcore BP in history. The guy who pulled off the Marriage of the Century. The guy who had TChalla just pump slapping people. The first and only guy to write not just one but TWO Panthers beating Steve Rogers. The first and only guy to write TChalla handily overwhelming Logan. The guy who made the hatas recognize TChalla's supergenius IQ, despite the definitive genius work of the much overlooked Priest. This is the only guy to write more than 2 Black heroes together on the same panel ins Black comic working as a team in a Black city without a White hero in sight or needed
.
This guy got Marvel to include TChalla in major events and not as a chump  or Affirmative Action point all the, either...whereas they ignored and demeaned TChalla as a matter of course prior to RH. This is the guy that EJD twrite that TChaka ( retconned to Azziri ) whoopin Cap was not due to the Heart Shaped Herb, as the HSH is not a SSS knockoff.

This guy wrote FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS.

So yeah, we look at this whole Doomom RH differently. We know RH BPouldn't sell out cuz RH won't sell out. We know that RH would have BP handing out severe beatdowns to Doom.

Other writers? Nah. Not them.


Apart from Civil War, what other big events did Mr Hudlin's Black Panther feature in?

And does anything in your post actually address why Mr Hudlin's Black Panther walked into the Doom ambush so unprepared?

I only ask this qiestion because some of you seem to have an issue with Hickman's portrayal of T'Challa in the terrax encounter feeling that he wasn't portrayed in a suitably polymathic manner.

I'm just trying to understand why some are acting as if Hickman has shortchanged T'Challa in some manner?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 06, 2013, 06:29:52 pm
Are you dissing Hudlin the #1 seller of Black Panther for all time?


That love for B-Swizzy is driving this brotha a little crazay... Or is that cray cray?


NTBM strikes again!


Carry on...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 07, 2013, 12:30:34 am
Cue the predictably retarded response that wilfully seeks to avoid the veracity of what's being said only to go pointing off into oblivion.

Apparently massive sales on a book render some immune to criticism.

I'm sure Mr Hudlin himself would agree that Jonathan Maberry used the closing arc of Hudlin's run on the Black Panther monthly ongoing as a springboard to launch his Doomwar which laid the seeds for Marvel to reverse all of the character progression that had been initiated by Christopher Priest and Mr Hudlin himself.

The printed pages don't lie.

But hey I guess it's easier for some to throw shade rather than face reality.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 07, 2013, 06:42:16 am
A...who?

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Sue#Variations[/url])

Basically they complain that he is "too perfect"


I see.

"They" would know a "marty sue" if "they" saw one, I suppose.

He was nothing more than a chain smoking louse, a heavy-drinking souse: an ill-tempered braggadocious boor who was more brawn than brain. That brain was also quite the mess as he had no idea of his past. Judging from what we saw of him at that time - short, ugly, hairy, certainly funky with body odor and the smelly remnant of heavy smoke and drink - his prospects for finding comfort in the arms of a female...even if that female was a sow in her own right...seemed slim and none.

Today, he is the all-mighty Wolverine. No team of superheroes - mutant or not - is complete without his presence gracing their roster. He has evolved from something little more than an animal to an all-knowing - Samurai sensei - sexual dynamo. Women as lovely as Jean Grey and Ororo Munroe are notches on his bedpost. He also happens to be nigh-immortal. All flesh, muscle and sinew was once blasted from his indestructible skeleton. He survived by ressurected himself from a single drop...a single drop, I say...of his blood.

Adamantium is supposed to be industructible. So I can't begin to fathom how it was that the Hulk managed to rip Wolverine in two...severing his industructible spine in the process...and hurling the two parts far and wide in opposite directions. Wolverine's upper torso - walking on its hands - managed to locate its lower half.

T'Challa is merely (or was), the ruler of once-mighty Wakanda, a nation never conquered. He is handsome, brilliant; a dynamic, enigmatic warrior who it seems, is always 2 steps ahead of his enemies.

And the LCB-RD says that T'Challa is "too perfect" while Wolverine is praiseworthy and peachy-keen. This incomprehensible bias of the LCB-RD is why Marvel Comics doesn't have a black male mutant who lives longer than 2 weeks. It's why Marvel Comics has Luke Cage/Jessica Jone...a heterosexual interracial relationship; Danny Rand/Misty Knight...a heterosexual interracial relationship, a homosexual interracial relationship between Northstar and his black lover, and T'Challa begging his black ex-wife not to sleep with the magnificent Wolverine...which she promptly does.

This is why T'Challa, the "new" Black Panther being as formidable - if not more so - than the "old" Black Panther will always have a hard row to hoe.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 07, 2013, 06:53:04 am
Cue the predictably retarded response that wilfully seeks to avoid the veracity of what's being said only to go pointing off into oblivion.

Apparently massive sales on a book render some immune to criticism.

I'm sure Mr Hudlin himself would agree that Jonathan Maberry used the closing arc of Hudlin's run on the Black Panther monthly ongoing as a springboard to launch his Doomwar which laid the seeds for Marvel to reverse all of the character progression that had been initiated by Christopher Priest and Mr Hudlin himself.

The printed pages don't lie.

But hey I guess it's easier for some to throw shade rather than face reality.

When it comes to the critical analysis of a writer's efforts regarding the Panther and other black characters, I defer to Ture, to Daoud, to the inimitable Supreme Illuminati, and to Salustrade.

I find Salustrade's vigorous support of Hickman an encouraging sign. I have also been quite impressed with the artwork. The Black Panther has never been rendered better than he has been in the scans of the New Avengers pages I have seen.

Salustrade counsels patience and I for one, will heed that counsel.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 07, 2013, 09:13:00 am
So basically we throw Hudlin under the bus because Hickman has the best ever depiction of Black Panther... Oh snap I just saw Priest under the bus too so you may as well toss McDuffie in there as well!


Hudlin after 30+ issues of making Black Panther a household name and as a rookie writer pulled off the "Wedding of The Century" which in-house veteran writers could not and Hickman is better after two Fantastic Four issues and 5 New Avengers issues?


It amazes me how easily certain black men turn on each over to defend a white dude who has not ventured yet into solo stand on your own comic books with Black Panther to see if they can hold their own naked on that Wakanda island!


Everything successful with Black Panther is done standing next to Reed in both comics as if he needed there handholding help while Hudlin had Black Panther save the day and get the girl on his own!


Do you guys also have a white dude standing next to you to help you polymathicly tie your own shoes or what?


Still waiting on that solo Black Panther cartoon... Oh wait Hudlin already been there done that practically on his own initiative!


I think some black men have caught NTBM when Black Panther was cancelled last year during Black History Month leading up to the annulment that Hickman could not stop as a veteran "Architect!"


And you tripping on the Doom thang as if all that glorious 30+ issue run was nothing to speak of as you praise 7 "Ensemble" based issues of Hickman... Cause you know you need Reed and Ironman to sell over 30,000!


YEAH... I'm pointing to oblivion as I recall what Hudlin told me to my face when I caught him shoplifting at the grocery store... "Men may lie, women may lie but the numbers don't lie!"


The best seller of Black Panther period... Now take that ungrateful attitude back to CBR with your NTBM symptoms!


Hip Hop Harvard Hudlin...


Beyonce: "Bow Down Beyotches Bow Down!"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 07, 2013, 09:23:05 am
Then maybe it's time we stop worrying about what the LCB-RD clowwns like and start focusing on supporting a writer who actually wants to write T'Challa as opposed to one who just wants to use the character as a stepping stone to other writing gigs within Marvel. (Maberry)

I've never seen T'Challa as being a lesser character to any other characters and choose to support him and anyone actually writing him properly.

Hickman is doing that presently, so he has my unswerving support until he proves unworthy of it.

I have never worried about what the LCB-RD liked or didn't like, brother  ;) 

I have seen you in action, Salustrade. I can say with confidence that you never have and never will worry about anything the LCB-RD could throw at you. I won't presume to speak for the HEF, but I DO know this. Jenn never worried about what the LCB-RD clowns liked, but she put them in their place when they spewed nonsense. Seven never worried about what the LCB-RD clowns liked, but when their signal went askew, Seven didn't hesitate to rectify their flow. Whenever a writer has done justice to the Panther we, as Panther fans, have supported that writer.

But Salustrade, the LCB-RD is and remains an inescapable, undeniable factor in the success or failure of the Black Panther and not only the Panther, but other black characters as well. A large segment of the LCB-RD views Storm favorably - especially when they are able to find evidence which "mitigates" her "blackness". The Black Panther has had as many solo titles as a hydra has heads. A title is cancelled and like the hydra's head grows back after being hacked off, a new Black Panther title breaks forth. The Panther is an excellent character. Marvel Comics knows this to be true and so does the LCB-RD. A large segment of this demographic seems to be resentful of this truth.

So while most of us couldn't give a rat's nasty ass what the LCB-RD likes, Marvel Comics seems to. The bulk of their revenue source is the LCB-RD and it is very likely that today's Marvel writers/illustrators/editors were once themselves LCB-RD fanboys with biases for and against certain characters they find themselves in positions to act upon. Back in the day, Marvel might have been concerned about what the LCB-RD thought about a black man, wearing a black costume, called Black Panther, being a member of the Avengers.

Apparently that concern was so great that in issue #105 of "Earth's Mightiest Heroes! The Avengers", T'Challa shows up and Hawkeye doesn't know whether to call him Panther or Black Leopard. Apparently, Hawkeye was told by the FF that T'Challa had changed his name from Black Panther to Black Leopard. T'Challa confirmed that he had because he "...did not want his personal goals and tribal heritage confused with the political plans made by others." I'm assuming those "others" T'Challa spoke of was the Black Panther Party. I doubt that organization had much support if any within the LCB-RD. Marvel was mindful of that. They have always been more mindful of the LCB-RD than the Panther's niche fandom.

This is why as great as T'Challa the Black Panther is and always has been...this is why no matter how lofty the goals or how great the talents of the writer he might have and how vociferously we Panther fans might support that writer, because the LCB-RD brings the big bucks, they wield the big voice.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 07, 2013, 09:54:52 am
The only real beef I have with Hudlin is that Shuri is still queen of Wakanda (And that is a whole other thread entirely) ;) but I will not throw him under the bus just to praise a new writer that happens to be white and ignore all the great things we got from the lucrative Hudlin run!


Show me a Hickman solo comic with Black Panther on his own approaching at least 20 issues without being cancelled then we can talk about historical significance!


Now go take your B-Swizzy scans into the bathroom with you while I reminisce over the the first ever Black Power Couple that never was!




Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 07, 2013, 11:27:07 am
The only real beef I have with Hudlin is that Shuri is still queen of Wakanda (And that is a whole other thread entirely) ;) but I will not throw him under the bus just to praise a new writer that happens to be white and ignore all the great things we got from the lucrative Hudlin run!

My signature once read: Hudlin's Black Panther IS the Black Panther.

Never was I so excited about the Black Panther as when Hudlin's run was at its zenith. I was so enthusiastic about the run that I disrespected and dismissed Christopher Priest's run, a run which I admittedly undervalued because I believed Everett Ross - a white character - was being used by Priest as a means of making the Panther tolerable where the LCB-RD was concerned. I was blind, stupid...and when Supreme Illuminati read the run for himself and posted his opinion of the run - an opinion absolutely in variance with mine at that time - I saw that I was completely wrong.

I mention this to show that as great as I believe both the Priest and Hudlin runs were, they weren't perfect. None of us will ever enjoy every aspect of any writer's portrayal of a favorite character. A discussion of the merits and perceived weaknesses of a writer's work is not necessarily a rabid defense of an unproven individual or the throwing under the bus of another individual who absolutely and irrefutably accomplished outstanding things for that favorite character.

Hickman is a white writer. Don McGregor, author of Panther's Rage, Panther's Quest, and Panther's Prey , is white as well. Personally, I wasn't pleased with every aspect of those three stories. Be that as it may, I always had the feeling McGregor respected the Panther, respected his mythos, respected Wakanda and enjoyed his work in bringing their stories to the fans. I despise doomwar. The writer of the story is a white man who to read him tell it, was raised in a racist environment and saw the character of the Black Panther as a truth that put the lie to the racist things he heard about black people.

Are we really going to make an issue of Hickman being white? It seems to me that any writer who wants to keep busy needs to be mindful of the LCB-RD preference on some level. Still, I have read where Hickman wanted to maintain the T'Challa/Ororo relationship. Judging from what I've gleaned from scans, it appears T'Challa is the functional leader of the group, not a functionary. I won't compare Hickman to writers whose work I have already enjoyed. I think it's fair to let his efforts stand or fall on its own merits...or the lack of them.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 07, 2013, 11:54:49 am
Sorry Sinjection1 I think you just got caught in the tail end of an eBeef that started at CBR an spilled over here... Ahhh the good old days!


Anywho...


The point I was making is that black writers (Of which there are usually less than 2% hired at Marvel) are under the Hatorade gun moreso than white writers are and Black Panther is at the center of that conflict!


Hickman has done some good things so far but to attack Hudlin over one issue which he probably had intended to rectify down the line as all comic book story arcs do is ludicrous!


I have been critical of Hudlin, Priest and McDuffie but never to uplift another writer that happens to be white and has arguably more leeway than black writers do at a given time!


Most people know that I don't like Shuri because I feel she is blocking the true King of Wakanda from getting back on his throne but that was supposed to be temporary according to Hudlin whereas Maberry, Liss and now Hickman have that ongoing in some convoluted younger sibling based monarchy!


But to throw that in Hudlin's face only to praise another writer is pushing the wrong agenda and ignoring that current writer's flaws with the character now!


Disney just paid a grip for a Black Panther movie script and at some point will have to get a return on that investment so suddenly a chief "Architect" is now at the helm when this should have been the case way back when Wesley Snipes was attached but then again Disney money was not on the table nor were comic book movies doing the numbers that they do now at the box office!


Always see the whole machine at work whether it is Hudlin writing or Hickman writing and compensate for things like politics, racism and basic pure Fanbratti Hatorade before assuming what mistakes were made and what support was behind them at the time!


And don't always accept little bones thrown your way after all the failures made with Black Panther like your name is Stephen in the movie Django Unchained and you is happy now! ;)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 07, 2013, 03:53:25 pm
The only real beef I have with Hudlin is that Shuri is still queen of Wakanda (And that is a whole other thread entirely) ;) but I will not throw him under the bus just to praise a new writer that happens to be white and ignore all the great things we got from the lucrative Hudlin run!

My signature once read: Hudlin's Black Panther IS the Black Panther.

Never was I so excited about the Black Panther as when Hudlin's run was at its zenith. I was so enthusiastic about the run that I disrespected and dismissed Christopher Priest's run, a run which I admittedly undervalued because I believed Everett Ross - a white character - was being used by Priest as a means of making the Panther tolerable where the LCB-RD was concerned. I was blind, stupid...and when Supreme Illuminati read the run for himself and posted his opinion of the run - an opinion absolutely in variance with mine at that time - I saw that I was completely wrong.

I mention this to show that as great as I believe both the Priest and Hudlin runs were, they weren't perfect. None of us will ever enjoy every aspect of any writer's portrayal of a favorite character. A discussion of the merits and perceived weaknesses of a writer's work is not necessarily a rabid defense of an unproven individual or the throwing under the bus of another individual who absolutely and irrefutably accomplished outstanding things for that favorite character.

Hickman is a white writer. Don McGregor, author of Panther's Rage, Panther's Quest, and Panther's Prey , is white as well. Personally, I wasn't pleased with every aspect of those three stories. Be that as it may, I always had the feeling McGregor respected the Panther, respected his mythos, respected Wakanda and enjoyed his work in bringing their stories to the fans. I despise doomwar. The writer of the story is a white man who to read him tell it, was raised in a racist environment and saw the character of the Black Panther as a truth that put the lie to the racist things he heard about black people.

Are we really going to make an issue of Hickman being white? It seems to me that any writer who wants to keep busy needs to be mindful of the LCB-RD preference on some level. Still, I have read where Hickman wanted to maintain the T'Challa/Ororo relationship. Judging from what I've gleaned from scans, it appears T'Challa is the functional leader of the group, not a functionary. I won't compare Hickman to writers whose work I have already enjoyed. I think it's fair to let his efforts stand or fall on its own merits...or the lack of them.

But that's the beauty of conversing with someone with an open mind.

You tend to learn new things and develop a greater appreciation for things that have come before.

Anyone familiar with my style of posting recognizes that I never pull punches but always endeavour to remain consistent and even handed in my approach to whatever matters I may be discussing or debating with peers and foes alike.

To hear some people talk, you'd think that PRIEST's take on the Back Panther mythos was completely flawless and as such, above criticism (constructive or otherwise) but upon further examination, one found that the inclusion of Ross was a truly double edged sword which cut both ways as far as fan reaction was concerned.

I was never a fan of the introduction of Kaspar Cole or the fact that PRIEST had T'Challa incapacitated with an aneurisym but all-in-all PRIEST's contributions to the BP mythos remain amongst the most solid over the years.

Reginald Hudlin's initial take on the character was originally meant to be an out of continuity six issue mini-series which was changed into an in-continuity mainstream 616 MU book.

This obviously led to some continuity based problems, but to Mr Hudlin's credit, he forged ahead with his new mandate and crafted a plethora of tales which led up to the marriage between T'Challa and Ororo which some misguided and malicious readers falsely accused him of being a racist for doing.

Mr Hudlin wrote the book consistently with both characters working well together (though some readers complained that Storm was always playing second fiddle to T'Challa) up until the encounter with Doom towards the close of Mr Hudlin's run on the book.

There's really no need for me to go into how badly those closing issues affected T'Challa's forward momentum as a character especially when takes into consideration the fact that Maberry used this as a springboard from which to launch DOOMWAR upon an unsuspecting BP fanbase.

DOOMWAR totally killed T'Challa's forward momentum and in many ways, enabled Marvel and some of their more irresponsible writers from the X-side of town to beging to work assiduously to break Storm and T'Challa up as a married couple.

Most of you posting here, are well aware of the extreme hatred that a core of X-readers have for T'Challa as a character all the moreso for his then marriage to Storm but what was also in evidence was that the X-office itself seemed to share and even encourage this anti-T'Challa mentality to such a degree that he and Wakanda were literally under attack both and off page by writers and readers alike. (AvX)

Now we have Jonathan Hickman who's stepped up to the plate.

He's currently writing T'Challa as a central lynchpin to the Illuminati experience in the New Avengers and as we can see moving forward with the Infinity event, it's obvious that Hickman means business as regards having a fully powered up King Of The Dead leading the Illuminati into battle against Thanos.

But get this, in he midst of all of this, posters like myself who've been there right from the beginning of the struggle are now being falsely accused of throwing Reginald Hudlin under the bus in favour of Jonathan Hickman or lusting after white women because we like the Black Swan character introduced by Hickman within the New Avengers pages.

Imagine that, being called out as a self hating individual all because one points out that Hickman has done an excellent job so far of building T'Challa back up from the ashes to which he was consigned post DOOMWAR.

One thing I can definitely pride myself in being is consistent in my delivery and mission objective to always state my mind as I see fit without hindrance or let regardless of whatever site I may be posting on at any given time.

The views and opinions I share here are indistinguishable from the ones I post on the CBR forums under the guise of Mr MajestiK so I for those who don't like what I have to say, it's too bad.

I remain myself at all times regardless of feeble opposition, attempted misdirection and outright stupidity.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 07, 2013, 04:20:20 pm
Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont

So let me get this correct,

Cat's are complaining that T'Challa's full skill set as a master tactitian was not employed against Terrax and that in addition to that, he was "swatted away" by Terrax even though he was the only combatant to actually strike what would have been a killing blow on a non-cosmically enhanced opponent?

Well, I guess T'Challa's much vaunted tactical awareness and supreme prep time protocols weren't that much of a big deal to some of you when this happened......

Complaining!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize reasoned and constructive criticism of Hickman projects were off-limits here?  I don't even know if the "swat" was his call as opposed to the way the artist interpreted the scene?  He might of just rolled with it due to time constraints.  Either way, the beauty of this forum and others is that you can react to what you paid for other than writing a letter to the editors.  Yes, it can also be an ugly thing as this is dangerously and needlessly close to becoming.  Nonetheless, I came here to express honest opinion.  That should not be chastised in defense of the writer who I'm not even tearing down.  I presented my concerns and preferences because I'm old enough to remember "the dude in the back of the Avengers team photo!" (Priest)  Any of you who don't know what that means well, I guess you had to be there. 

Suffice to say I'm holding Hickman up to his own standard.  He got us excited about a new take on a revised Panther with the power and experience to be even better than ever before.  He put T'Challa up front and center with these Avengers.  Again, I didn't call for BP to lay out Terrax with a single blow.  Would anyone have called BS had T'Challa slipped the blow, the effect of his attack being merely to aggravate the brute, distracting him from one Avenger while setting him up to be K.O.'d by another?  Without a Vibranium laced habit T'Challa would be extremely wise to avoid such a blow.  As a BP fan which would you rather see?  As a New Avengers fan?  I ain't mad at Hickman......yet.  But let's not let T'Challa slip back into a familiar "street-level" stereotype. 

Peace,

Mont     
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 07, 2013, 06:52:57 pm
 
Complaining!?! I'm sorry, I didn't realize reasoned and constructive criticism of Hickman projects were off-limits here?  I don't even know if the "swat" was his call as opposed to the way the artist interpreted the scene?  He might of just rolled with it due to time constraints.  Either way, the beauty of this forum and others is that you can react to what you paid for other than writing a letter to the editors.  Yes, it can also be an ugly thing as this is dangerously and needlessly close to becoming.  Nonetheless, I came here to express honest opinion.  That should not be chastised in defense of the writer who I'm not even tearing down.  I presented my concerns and preferences because I'm old enough to remember "the dude in the back of the Avengers team photo!" (Priest)  Any of you who don't know what that means well, I guess you had to be there. 

Suffice to say I'm holding Hickman up to his own standard.  He got us excited about a new take on a revised Panther with the power and experience to be even better than ever before.  He put T'Challa up front and center with these Avengers.  Again, I didn't call for BP to lay out Terrax with a single blow.  Would anyone have called BS had T'Challa slipped the blow, the effect of his attack being merely to aggravate the brute, distracting him from one Avenger while setting him up to be K.O.'d by another?  Without a Vibranium laced habit T'Challa would be extremely wise to avoid such a blow.  As a BP fan which would you rather see?  As a New Avengers fan?  I ain't mad at Hickman......yet.  But let's not let T'Challa slip back into a familiar "street-level" stereotype. 

Peace,

Mont     
Thing is though he saved Tony's life and Sal brought up an excellent point of his blow would've killed anyone else. This "constructive criticism" doesn't hold water at all. He was pretty much the one minus Black Bolt that even actually laid blow on him. Seriously what are you looking for? "Oh he didnt dodge his attack im going to constructively criticize him"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 07, 2013, 07:03:21 pm
Yeah, T'Challa's attack was the only thing that saved Tony.  And to some degree, it set up for Black Bolt's finishing blow.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 07, 2013, 07:53:21 pm
So I'm not entitled to an opinion that suggests Hickman could have made a better choice?  Answer the question; If it was written with BP evading Terrax's blow, setting up Black Bolt for the K.O. you would have cried B.S. and been disappointed?  You guys are ridiculous!

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 07, 2013, 08:15:05 pm
So I'm not entitled to an opinion that suggests Hickman could have made a better choice?  Answer the question; If it was written with BP evading Terrax's blow, setting up Black Bolt for the K.O. you would have cried B.S. and been disappointed?  You guys are ridiculous!

Peace,

Mont

Of course not, but I'm not disappointed with what happened because he still contributed more than pretty much everyone but Black Bolt.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 07, 2013, 10:01:33 pm
I think T'Challa is smitten by that woman. I think she is with him. They could end up like Scott and Emma were.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 12:08:33 am
I think T'Challa is smitten by that woman. I think she is with him. They could end up like Scott and Emma were.

Why do you think they might be smitten with each other?

I'm genuinely curious.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 12:14:55 am
So I'm not entitled to an opinion that suggests Hickman could have made a better choice?  Answer the question; If it was written with BP evading Terrax's blow, setting up Black Bolt for the K.O. you would have cried B.S. and been disappointed?  You guys are ridiculous!

Peace,

Mont

The only thing ridiculous here is your over reaction to what was merely a general question in my part based on observations made within not just your post, but those of a few other posters in this thread.

It was neither meant as an insult or attempt to censure your opinion.

To suggest otherwise is.......ridiculous.  :D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 08, 2013, 07:24:38 am
So I'm not entitled to an opinion that suggests Hickman could have made a better choice?  Answer the question; If it was written with BP evading Terrax's blow, setting up Black Bolt for the K.O. you would have cried B.S. and been disappointed?  You guys are ridiculous!

Peace,

Mont
No one said you aren't entitled to an opinion. But as stated more than once He saved Tony's life and did a killing blow. All in his character
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 08, 2013, 07:44:56 am
I think T'Challa is smitten by that woman. I think she is with him. They could end up like Scott and Emma were.

Why do you think they might be smitten with each other?

I'm genuinely curious.

I read cinematically and that's how it feels, could be wrong.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 08:11:47 am
Long time people's. Wow, I will say I have to agree with Salustrade, BmoreAkuma, Vic Vega and Princesa (on Black Swan).

What exactly do you guys want? Terrax is extremely powerful. He was about to KILL Tony. T'challa saved him. I see people using the Firelord example. But that's not the sort of stuff you want done with T'challa. That example is ridiculed and mocked to this day. Something like that would be damaging more then anything. Other then Black Bolt, no one else did a thing. T'challa saved Tony and allowed Blackgar to save Tony and get close. Everyone else, including Tony with 100 class battle armor and Namor got owned hard core!

T'challa is powerful, but we have not seen his full range of abilities. It's going to be a reveal, organically over time. That's the right way to handle it. He's more powerful as confirmed by Hickman as bring around class 2 or higher. He's likely similar to Midnigher or the Gorgon, able to take on super heavies while not being that level themselves.

You want him to dodge a character possibly faster, on par or just under him. His reaction was instant. That's fine, T'challa wasn't jobbed out.

About the King of the Dead, he's also KING OF KINGS. a clever device by Hickman, basically making him The High-King of Wakanda.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 08:13:54 am
I think T'Challa is smitten by that woman. I think she is with him. They could end up like Scott and Emma were.

Why do you think they might be smitten with each other?

I'm genuinely curious.

I read cinematically and that's how it feels, could be wrong.

I agree. There is something to them. She is taken by him as well IMHO. It's possible she knew a AU version of T'challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 08, 2013, 08:20:51 am
Hickman (as with any past writer of the Black Panther) does not need defending. He is an Marvel employee charged with writing the New Avengers and by proxy the Black Panther. He does not answer to anyone other than those who hired him. He has his own ideas and knows where he wants to take the story neither requiring our permission nor waiting for our approval. The frequency of his visitations to the boards if at all and their influence on him is not yet known.

One can easily discern that both Flex and Salustrade and the camps they represent are both making valid points by arguing the flip sides of the same coin. As is too often the case, two of our best are in conflict while the grand architect continues on his mission unabated. Despite all criticisms, debates and arguments the commonality we all share is our great appreciation for the Black Panther and the success he so warrants.

What I am most interested in seeing is how Tchalla's new powers manifest. Is it possible that as King of the Dead (presumably Wakandan dead) Tchalla can bring the deceased back to life. If so maybe that is why Tchalla hasn't mentioned the death of the three Wakandan children who's demise came at the behest of Black Swan.

I would also like to see the Black Panther's habit modified. It should be textured and visibly display some of its tech. It should be environmentally adaptive so he can survive in different extremes and circumstances; i.e. underwater, the vacuum of space. While the armors were a great idea I prefer the vibranium microweave as it is uniquely Tchalla's and not to be considered an Iron man clone. The armor idea for Suri however is ideal and would distinguish her from Tchalla.

I also favor the idea that Tchalla always have a cloaked N'Yami battle cruiser in his immediate vicinity; thus capable of supplying necessary equipment, support, transportation and base of operations.

If Hickman were to incorporate these concepts in his writing and they can remain canon; I think these would help distinguish the Black Panther among his superhero brethren and add to his cinematic appeal.

Welcome back Seven.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 08:33:28 am
Sorry Sinjection1 I think you just got caught in the tail end of an eBeef that started at CBR an spilled over here... Ahhh the good old days!

No worries, Flex. At least it's you all spilling over from the CBR. In MY day of stomping around the CBR, I would sometimes return with a hostile CBR stray in tow. If I remember correctly, one aggrieved individual from the x-boards signed up and was here waiting on me when I got back. I'm sure Curtis was close to losing patience with me on that score.

At any rate, as I've been out of the loop for quite some time, I can only follow and enjoy the exchange between you all, becoming more familiar with the issues as it goes. Yes, I did say I enjoy the exchange. What you are engaged in is not destructive. It is productive, informative, and healthy. It is a...hurricane - if you will - of fresh air. Though sometimes being a bit testy, I appreciate the passion and enthusiasm displayed by an invigorated if not "in tune" Black Panther fandom. I see valid arguments on both sides and although I could do without the personal sniping back and forth, I have nothing but respect for everyone of you involved. You're all articulate, inventive, entertaining, enlightened and enlightening. You all will work it out.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 09:06:38 am
I see people using the Firelord example. But that's not the sort of stuff you want done with T'challa. That example is ridiculed and mocked to this day. Something like that would be damaging more then anything.

I brought up the Firelord example and for the very reason your reaction to that example elicited. Welcome back, by the way.

No. I don't want to see a Black Panther who is capable of going 15 rounds, toe-to-toe, blow-for-blow with Terrax, Thanos, or anyone in that class. IMO, that would defeat the purpose of the character of the Black Panther.

But there it is nevertheless. And while as you say, Spider-Man's win over Firelord - a fight that began over Firelord being denied a pizza - was ridiculed when mentioned, as was the example of Wolvering being blasted to smithereens by Nitro only to resurrect himself from a single drop of his own blood, those examples were more readily accepted by the LCB-RD than was the Black Panther's victory of Captain America, say.

There are more people out there who are more comfortable with T'Challa's weaknesses, failings...cuckoldings...what have you...than those of us who while pleased that T'Challa was able to excute his attack on Terrax enabling to save a comrade (something I am only familiar with through viewing scans and discussion), it would not have broken anybody's heart if as some have suggested, T'Challa was able to nimbly avoid Terrax's swipe.

If fan-fave Hawkeye can go into battle against Skrulls or other super-powered foes bristling with power, armed only with a quiver of hokey arrows and not only survive but excel in battle, can we not expect that much for T'Challa? During Civil War, T'Challa - armed with the Ebony Blade and wearing his Thrice-Blessed Armor (I think that's what it was called), battled Iron Man. Enlighten me and do correct me if I'm in error...wasn't T'Challa on the verge of losing to Iron Man? I remember in an ancient issue of Avengers vs Defenders, Hawkeye taking Iron Man down with a magnetic arrow, making a clown of him during the process.

So much writer's love for Hawkeye. So little for the Black Panther.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 09:28:12 am
What I am most interested in seeing is how Tchalla's new powers manifest. Is it possible that as King of the Dead (presumably Wakandan dead) Tchalla can bring the deceased back to life.

I wonder if the Resurrection Altar survived Namor's near-destruction of Wakanda.

Imagine the reaction if Wakanda posessed both, the cure for Cancer AND a means to - or a being having the power to resurrect dead people.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 09:54:50 am
Good to see you both (Ture and Sin).

Put it like this. T'challa dodged the initial attack! The same one that knocked Namor out of the fight! He was the second most effective member of NA in that fight. His stabbing gave BB the opening he needed and also stop Tony from being killed. No one on the team is as strong as Terrax. This isn't 616 Terrax either--odds are he probably stronger!

And Hickman is deliberately not showing All of T'challa new powers. That would not be in Character of he did. There are only two characters with any hint of the power T'challa has currently. Reed Richards...who witness it occur and Black Swan who was on the receiving end. Why would T'challa show his hand now? Namor has no idea.

That's a chip in his pocket--for when it really counts. This scene is trival...it not a climax moment at all. So rather then have him do everything, he wrote Black Bolt taking him down...while still showing respect to T'challa

Because back in the day (someone gave a example that I disagree with) T'challa would have been in Namor's place. He would have pointed and got swatted away and that's it!

So at what point does T'challa get hit. Now, during a trivial moment or later during a climax moment? I rather the latter. But that's just me.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 09:57:42 am
Brother Sin. Most of the haters are muted. What can they say when Terrax owned the rest of the team. He didn't own T'challa, he simply hit him. T'challa took the blow from a 100 class character and was up and about right after. Namor wasn't.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 09:59:11 am
I was never a fan of the introduction of Kaspar Cole or the fact that PRIEST had T'Challa incapacitated with an aneurisym but all-in-all PRIEST's contributions to the BP mythos remain amongst the most solid over the years.

I was never a fan of Kasper Cole, period. I believe it was shortly before his introduction that I became "hit and miss" with my purchases of Priest's Panther run. I remember my disgust the day I walked into a LCS and saw the cover of an issue featuring a lonely, solitary Black Panther piloting some small water craft along what seemed to be a river of death into a setting sun. The whole scene stunk of "here we go again" death of the Black Panther.

Then I became aware of the Kasper Cole character. You know how I felt about Everett Ross, his being a white character and my belief that his function in the book was to somehow make the Panther, and if not the Panther, the stories featuring the Panther more palatable to the LCB-RD through his presence and signficance in those stories. To my thinking, the "elimination" of the black man T'Challa and then, replacing him with a gun-toting, trenchcoat-wearing, bi-racial citizen of the United States was an even more obvious, egregious, desperate attempt to grab just enough of the LCB-RD to keep the run afloat.

With me, Salustrade, it's more about how Marvel and not only Marvel, but DC as well - during my meanderings through internet comicbook discussion forums, I saw that DC had planned to kill John Stewart, its Black Green Lantern - bends over backwards to cater to the whims and wishes of the LCB-RD. I wouldn't be surprised if the very second the Black Panther touches his lips to those of the Black Swan, she becomes "garbage" where the LCB-RD is concerned and if so inclined and properly motivated, the segment of the demographic that purchases New Avengers could demonstrate their displeasure of such an event by refusing to purchase future issues.

I saw Everett Ross, Kasper Cole, T'Challa's newly-introduced half-brother...his bi-racial half-brother code named White Wolf. What the hell? A white wolf in the Black Panther comic book? What's all this white,white,white,white,white. I thought I was in a damned blizzard. I blamed Priest. I shouldn't have. When I went back and read his run without prejudice and without malice, I saw that he was doing very good things with and for T'Challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 08, 2013, 10:39:16 am
Ok, seems like I'm in the minority of my Wakandan brothers as to the "swatting" matter. I am glad you all enjoyed the issue.  While I do not want to be seen as overreacting, I am looking for something more.  Not necessarily Priest or Hudlin more, but what I believe is a reasoned portrayal befitting of the character I identify as the main character of the book.  I am not interested in hating nor defending Hickman.  I only want the best, not the strongest, not the most invincible, but the best Black Panther I can get.  All vitriol aside, I hope that leaves us with a common understanding in keeping with the appreciation I've always had for my Wakandan brothers and sisters.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 10:43:49 am
Brother Sin. Most of the haters are muted. What can they say when Terrax owned the rest of the team. He didn't own T'challa, he simply hit him. T'challa took the blow from a 100 class character and was up and about right after. Namor wasn't.

Well said and well-taken. What you've indicated about T'Challa now having powers that Namor isn't yet aware of is very intriguing and encouraging. I'm anticipating New Avengers #7 and may actually be moved to purchase it - the first comicbook purchase I will have made in years - if it features T'Challa giving Namor the beating he deserves.

It's just that I'm entirely fed up with the way black comicbook characters have been depicted/disgraced in recent years.

Blade. "I know, lets make him bi-racial. Give him a white father. The LCB-RD will eat it up." I can't believe that I supported this move at its inception. Blade's last appearance has him the lover of Spitfire, the vampire-speedster. I have nothing against interracial love relationships.

Love is love. Lust is lust.

Wolverine on Storm is pure lust, written to appease a certain segment of fans who needed to see this, especially in the wake of the recent demise of the Marriage Of The Century. Wolverine's sexual conquest of Storm satisfied their "touche" urge and served as the wine with which they could wash from their memories all remnants of King T'Challa and Queen Ororo, rulers of almighty Wakanda.

M(onet) expresses a potential romantic interest in Synch who was interested in her, but written as to shy to let her know. Soon, Synch is dead and lying in the arms of an inconsolable M. She wasn't inconsolable for long as she was having sex with one of Madrox' duplicates.

Tyrone Johnson (Cloak) - a black man - hopelessly entrapped in an unrequited relationship with Tandy Bowen (Dagger) - a blonde, blue-eyed white girl. Time was Cloak was referred to as a "demon of darkness", Dagger as an "angel of light" and times when the pair was depicted that IMO came dangerously close to Cloak as pimp and Dagger as prostitute.

Black love is celebrated by the Marriage Of The Century and all you read is "forced, forced, forced!" for the myriad reasons given by LCB-RD haters and a smattering of others who somehow felt violated by the relationship's defiance of the natural flow of Marvel Comics events in these matters. Black love annulled. Now we have Ororo returned to "pass-around-ass" status and the hope of some for a relationship between a Black Panther and a Black Swan.

Brother Voodoo becomes Doctor Voodoo, Sorceror Supreme. A segment of the LCB-RD whines and wails and Doctor Voodoo - conqueror of Dr. Doom - is dead. I didn't have a real problem with the Remender stories and thought the artwork was excellent.

Salustrade has confidence in the direction Hickman is going. If I happen to see evidence of a significant Panther victory over Namor, I'll become an active follower of the series.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 10:51:50 am
Kimoyo, no doubt. I feel you. It's slow--but from what I have researched from reading Hickman's work is that's his style. It's a slow burn. And he's aware of the "perfect" perception and also what you just said.

My guess is that T'challa steps up big time. Part of his inclusion is about that. He's completely intertwined into the premise of this book. But he's no going to waste his moments on Terrax.

Namor on the other hand, seem to be the one who gets it hard. They are going to show down soon and then Namor's out.

The First issue showed that T'challa will dominate anything less then a super heavy. I'm personally cool with him not being able to dominate a herald--but it's possible that he could. He's not tipping his hand at all. He only trust Reed and has a leg up on everyone other then Reed ( who he is connected to).

Off topic. What is the "Great Destroyer" is a alternate version of T'challa?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 10:57:26 am
Ok, seems like I'm in the minority of my Wakandan brothers as to the "swatting" matter. I am glad you all enjoyed the issue.  While I do not want to be seen as overreacting, I am looking for something more.  Not necessarily Priest or Hudlin more, but what I believe is a reasoned portrayal befitting of the character I identify as the main character of the book.  I am not interested in hating nor defending Hickman.  I only want the best, not the strongest, not the most invincible, but the best Black Panther I can get.  All vitriol aside, I hope that leaves us with a common understanding in keeping with the appreciation I've always had for my Wakandan brothers and sisters.

Peace,

Mont

Your observations and the manner in which you presented your concerns is a sterling representation of the expectations all of us have for the elevation of the Black Panther to the level of character he deserves to be. IMO, we're all the better for the discussion and have a renewed focus on the types of things we want to see where T'Challa is concerned.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 11:00:36 am
I feel you Sin. Who isn't fed up. Those examples are undeniable.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 12:16:29 pm
One thing we also have to remember is that this is a team book. So every character should get their time to shine. It's just T'challa times will be the big moments. No? See the first issue. Hickman forced it. You can't get the story without seeing a super human T'challa tear through his enemies like nothing.

Terrax wasn't one of those mements. We will see during Infinity and his face off with Namor. But even after those...we have 2 1/2 years plus events to go. T'challa trajectory is upward IMHO.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 12:34:18 pm
Speaking of the devil.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775)
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
(http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg)
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 01:48:16 pm
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


Arrrrrghhhh!

You beat me to the punch.

I was just about to post this.   ;D

NTBM indeed. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 01:59:20 pm
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


Arrrrrghhhh!

You beat me to the punch.

I was just about to post this.   ;D

NTBM indeed. :smh:


Lol. Oh. I'm not going to rub it in.














Yet.  :D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 02:13:47 pm
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


Arrrrrghhhh!

You beat me to the punch.

I was just about to post this.   ;D

NTBM indeed. :smh:


Lol. Oh. I'm not going to rub it in.














Yet.  :D


Save the rubbing in for the professional hater/braggart who's been throwing shade on Hickman ad fans intelligent enough to recognize what Hickman has in store for T'Challa, Shuri and Wakanda.

NTBM indeed. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 02:55:31 pm
Well. If you read Hickman's interviews... It's pretty clear he gets a lot of the issues.

Look at what TB says--it gives you a window into what Hickman thinks about T'challa. Black Dwarf is a powerhouse, not meant for "street" characters!

Quote
Tom Brevoort: I don't know if it's so much an ally as it is a lieutenant. Thanos is going to have five different subordinates within "Infinity" proper. We've seen Thanos as the head of big armies of guys in the past, he's had his armada of Thanos-Thralls and guys that have assisted him, but they've all kind of been faceless. I'd look at this as a good opportunity to introduce some characters and get some new villainous blood into the Marvel Universe in a big way. Here, we're going to have five characters, they're all different, they all have separate backstories and histories and modus operandi and so forth, but what unites them at the moment is that they're working under Thanos, for his cause and to his ends. We'll see them, learn them, get to see them in action and then they'll be on the stage where thereafter they can be characters that go up against our heroes -- particularly our heroes that are on the higher end of the scale, power-wise. These are galactic villains, so they're not necessarily guys that are going to be punching Daredevil in the streets of Manhattan. They're more going to be mixing it up with the likes of the Silver Surfer or Nova or somebody from the cosmos.

So T'challa is what then? The King of the Dead is taking him head on.
Hate on Hickman? NTBM? I think not.

Had this been some other writer--T'challa and Wakanda would have had a tie-in or nothing at all since he doesn't have a solo...or worst, the AoU treatment.

I think we all need to just take a step back and let him do his thing. The haters are muted, threatened and scared. It's a nightmare to see T'challa all out there front and center!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
Well. If you read Hickman's interviews... It's pretty clear he gets a lot of the issues.

Look at what TB says--it gives you a window into what Hickman thinks about T'challa. Black Dwarf is a powerhouse, not meant for "street" characters!

Quote
Tom Brevoort: I don't know if it's so much an ally as it is a lieutenant. Thanos is going to have five different subordinates within "Infinity" proper. We've seen Thanos as the head of big armies of guys in the past, he's had his armada of Thanos-Thralls and guys that have assisted him, but they've all kind of been faceless. I'd look at this as a good opportunity to introduce some characters and get some new villainous blood into the Marvel Universe in a big way. Here, we're going to have five characters, they're all different, they all have separate backstories and histories and modus operandi and so forth, but what unites them at the moment is that they're working under Thanos, for his cause and to his ends. We'll see them, learn them, get to see them in action and then they'll be on the stage where thereafter they can be characters that go up against our heroes -- particularly our heroes that are on the higher end of the scale, power-wise. These are galactic villains, so they're not necessarily guys that are going to be punching Daredevil in the streets of Manhattan. They're more going to be mixing it up with the likes of the Silver Surfer or Nova or somebody from the cosmos.

So T'challa is what then? The King of the Dead is taking him head on.
Hate on Hickman? NTBM? I think not.

Had this been some other writer--T'challa and Wakanda would have had a tie-in or nothing at all since he doesn't have a solo...or worst, the AoU treatment.

I think we all need to just take a step back and let him do his thing. The haters are muted, threatened and scared. It's a nightmare to see T'challa all out there front and center!

Not a good time to be a self confessed TROLL on that Silly Plonker Stagger tip.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 08, 2013, 03:32:37 pm
Your obsession with all things Flex Hectic is going to cause you an aneurysm... Calm down and breathe a little!


This is good news for you it kind of reminds me of Aaron's See Wakanda and Die arc just before he annulled... OOPS!


Don't let me steal your joy! ;)


Carry on...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2013, 03:38:36 pm
Thus fall false prophets and their mystical point biatches.

For someone who came into this thread to chat crazy amounts of sh*t about me and falsely accuse me of supposedly throwing a black writer under the proverbial bus in favour of a white writer, you're obviously a few sandwichs short of a hamper basket and full of crap to boot.

May Looney Tunes Hammers forever be their portion in Yabbat Ummon Tarru's name.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 08, 2013, 03:40:32 pm
More good news!!!

"We know what Marvel movies are part of Phase 2 of the Cinematic Universe: ‘Iron Man 3,’ ‘Thor 2,’ ‘Captain America 2,’ ‘Guardians of the Galaxy‘ and ‘The Avengers 2.’ Beyond that, all that has been confirmed is Edgar Wright’s ‘Ant-Man.’ But in an article on the future of ‘The Avengers’ we’ve got confirmation on what other movies Marvel is developing and it looks like Phase 3 is about to get very, very big."

"The Hollywood Reporter revealed in a wide-ranging article on the future of Marvel that the studio currently has scripts in the works for ‘Ms. Marvel’ and a ‘Blade’ reboot and are actively developing ‘Doctor Strange,’ ‘Iron Fist,’ Black Panther’ and ‘The Runaways’ movies. So what do you think of these films? There are some films we’d previously heard of (Marvel has been trying to crack a ‘Black Panther’ film for years)."

I took all the pertinent  Black Panther material but here's the link anyhow.

http://screencrush.com/marvel-upcoming-movies/ (http://screencrush.com/marvel-upcoming-movies/)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 08, 2013, 03:59:11 pm
Here is the thing to always keep in mind with characters, they are never as good in reality as they are on paper. 

And plans never work when they hit reality, because no one can plan for every x-factor (except with bad writing).
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 04:07:02 pm
That's some good news Ture. Hopeful we will hear something at the SDCC or NYCC.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 08, 2013, 04:17:22 pm
I like you Salustrade you remind me of Majestic at CBR... Oh wait you are the same people my bad! :)


You are so super sensitive that you cannot even celebrate small victories when they happen for you without referencing me!


I am going to buy you some cookies and milk and see if I can talk you down out of this Flex Hectic "Point Man" fixation you have!


I admit I can get on people's last nerve sometimes but it's all in good fun... Really you are just butt hurt because I dissed your cousin but deep down you love my posts!


And yes you did throw Hudlin under the bus... You even mocked him as a "Point Man" which is my invention but people forgive and move on no biggie!


Have another cookie...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 08, 2013, 06:06:18 pm
Look. I love smack talking...it's fun. So let's just keep it on that level and not get too personal. So we can keep smack talking. It's all fun. And no hard feelings.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 08, 2013, 07:50:14 pm
The First issue showed that T'challa will dominate anything less then a super heavy. I'm personally cool with him not being able to dominate a herald--but it's possible that he could. He's not tipping his hand at all. He only trust Reed and has a leg up on everyone other then Reed ( who he is connected to).

Thank you Seven.  The last I'll say on this because I want it to be clear is that my expectation was not for T'Challa to dominate Terrax.  I think Hickman's choice of T'Challa using a stealth attack on him was perfect, T'Challa would know not to try to go toe to toe with him, he would get in and get out.  I just would have liked to see him pull it off smooth without getting pimp smacked. A small adjustment that would have been reasonable and bad-assed.  I think Hickman is a good writer/storyteller.  I'm still on board.  I was disappointed not disenfranchised.

I'm done, I promise.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 08, 2013, 08:11:02 pm
Here's the problem...


With all that has happened to Black Panther these past few years many of us are stressed out by even the slightest issue because of what was taken away!


There is nothing really wrong with getting smacked in a comic book as a super hero except where it concerns Black Panther who has gotten the short end of the stick a lot over the years!


So when it appears as if he is about to get some shine we fans are often treated to TROLL stuff or letdowns as a whole that can derail his eventual rise to the top!


We live vicariously through our favorite characters so when they suffer we feel it in our bones and react accordingly!


The Roy Thomas years probably has us all punch drunk so we can be defensive about Black Panther as if we were getting hit ourselves!


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 10:52:47 pm
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


Powerful imagery. It appears that a solid, well-written, exquistely-illustrated, exciting story is in the offing, featuring Wakanda and her champions at the forefront. This could be the type of event featuring T'Challa we've been waiting for. Understandably, these are heady times for you faithful Wakandans who've been hanging on in the aftermath of doomwar and the annulment.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 10:57:24 pm
Here is the thing to always keep in mind with characters, they are never as good in reality as they are on paper. 

And plans never work when they hit reality, because no one can plan for every x-factor (except with bad writing).

 ???  Are you talking character concept to the comicbook page or a comicbook character's translation to the silver screen?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 08, 2013, 11:09:35 pm
Well. If you read Hickman's interviews... It's pretty clear he gets a lot of the issues.

Look at what TB says--it gives you a window into what Hickman thinks about T'challa. Black Dwarf is a powerhouse, not meant for "street" characters!

Quote
Tom Brevoort: I don't know if it's so much an ally as it is a lieutenant. Thanos is going to have five different subordinates within "Infinity" proper. We've seen Thanos as the head of big armies of guys in the past, he's had his armada of Thanos-Thralls and guys that have assisted him, but they've all kind of been faceless. I'd look at this as a good opportunity to introduce some characters and get some new villainous blood into the Marvel Universe in a big way. Here, we're going to have five characters, they're all different, they all have separate backstories and histories and modus operandi and so forth, but what unites them at the moment is that they're working under Thanos, for his cause and to his ends. We'll see them, learn them, get to see them in action and then they'll be on the stage where thereafter they can be characters that go up against our heroes -- particularly our heroes that are on the higher end of the scale, power-wise. These are galactic villains, so they're not necessarily guys that are going to be punching Daredevil in the streets of Manhattan. They're more going to be mixing it up with the likes of the Silver Surfer or Nova or somebody from the cosmos.

So T'challa is what then? The King of the Dead is taking him head on.
Hate on Hickman? NTBM? I think not.

Had this been some other writer--T'challa and Wakanda would have had a tie-in or nothing at all since he doesn't have a solo...or worst, the AoU treatment.

I think we all need to just take a step back and let him do his thing. The haters are muted, threatened and scared. It's a nightmare to see T'challa all out there front and center!

Well, now....it appears we might see T'Challa going toe-to-toe with a Galactus Herald-type opponent afterall. Intrigue intensifying.

I saw Thanos mentioned in Brevort's comments and had a flashback to a Starlin-written Avengers vs Thanos story. T'Challa piloted the captured Zodiac cruiser into battle against Thanos' armada. I seem to remember the Black Panther playing a very significant role, actually directing the other Avengers in that battle. 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 08, 2013, 11:43:39 pm
The idea of a newly empowered Black Panther battling alongside Blackbolt and the rest of the New Avengers, against Thanos' deadly lieutenant of the Black Order, the celestial Nihilist  Black Dwarf , as the sexy Black Swan sways affection while engaging Ebony Maul in mental gymnastics. As my word play suggests there are alot of "blacks" involved. I can't help but think it intentional, Hickman does have a sense of humor you know, just read his Formspring.

Personally it is never about disrespecting the writer, its about critically analyzing how the Black Panther is depicted through said writer's interpretation. As I stated previously Hickman posits a formidable Black Panther. The new pix of Tchalla, Shuri and Wakandan soldiers engaging Black Dwarf was enticing. However I do grow tired of seeing Wakandans with spears. For a change they could be presented wielding various kinds of firearms. That's why that picture lacks the wow factor for me.

My first time seeing this ...wow.

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpanther_nyami2.jpg)

My first time seeing this WOW!!!

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpanther_nyami.jpg)

I'm looking for impact that belies Tchalla's misrepresentations. Hickman can definitely show the Black Panther's organic evolution and may very well do so. It is what we want to experience. It is why we're all so demonstrative. Tchalla's greatness has usually been more inferred than demonstrated. For example we didn't often get the opportunity to watch Tchalla in the lab engaging in robotics though there was evidence of such in FF #s 241 and 311 (with Doom's assistance).

I don't want an uber Panther that arm bars cosmic entities just a Black Panther who has reached his potential and remains at such a level consistently. I want a Black Panther movie. I want the Black Panther to be viewed as a top tier "A" list character. If Hickman is the man to deliver the latter which could possibly induce the former then I welcome him.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 09, 2013, 01:51:33 am
I'm mixed on Hickman. While I do think he has respect for Black Panther and I've liked how he has rendered T'Challa for the most part (even if I don't fully understand the whole King of the Dead thing), I'm not much of a fan of his writing. It feels too esoteric or something. So it's a dilemma. I am curious enough to return to New Avengers for this Wakanda-Atlantis War, but I don't know if I'll stick around after that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 09, 2013, 07:51:28 am
For myself, the comicbook experience has largely been about enjoying and absorbing the work of the illustrator rather than critiquing the skill and presentation of the writer. Unless it's something that glares at me - Roy Thomas and his style of writing Wakandan dialogue as if the nation as a whole had escaped from a William Shakespeare play comes to mind - the writing of the story has always a secondary consideration.

I have enjoyed the work of Illustrator/Writers Jim Starlin and John Byrne, Starlin's work in particular. Jim Starlin's art and writing have always been a devastating 1/2 combination. Any story featuring Thanos - a character easily equivalent in power and gravity to Mephisto and Galactus - immediately excites my attention, especially when written by Starlin. I'm not familiar with the work of Hickman, but I must say, the artwork I've seen almost has me ready to pull the trigger on purchasing this issue and jumping back into the arc with both feet.

The idea of a newly empowered Black Panther battling alongside Blackbolt and the rest of the New Avengers, against Thanos' deadly lieutenant of the Black Order, the celestial Nihilist  Black Dwarf , as the sexy Black Swan sways affection while engaging Ebony Maul in mental gymnastics. As my word play suggests there are alot of "blacks" involved. I can't help but think it intentional, Hickman does have a sense of humor you know, just read his Formspring.

All this "black" speak brings me back to the consideration of the title of brother Ture's excellent topic. New Avengers... it's like...if you've seen one Avengers' team, you've seen them all. There aren't many characters who have not been an Avenger at one time or another. Assuming he is one black mutant still among the living (he is bi-racial so maybe he has beaten the odds and managed to avoid the reaper), Nezhno would make a great Avenger IMHO.

New Black Panther...given the hints and teases, T'Challa may be in for a significant upgrade in physical power and ability. I think we're all in agreement that once the concept progressed beyond "Coal Tiger" and the clown suit he was rendered in, T'Challa, the Black Panther (the name, the sleek black Panther's habit, the Wakanda aspect), has been a homerun character just waiting to clear the center field wall. If not for fan interference re: LCB-RD hostility and indifference, he would have done so long ago. A bulky, hulking, cosmic powerhouse Black Panther is not what any of us would like to see. A Black Panther who could more than hold his own against Iron Man, Spider-Man, Kraven the Hunter...a Black Panther who could throttle and kill Dr. Doom and Namor without resorting to a plethora of gadgets or Dora Milaje back up...I think we might be able to live with that sort of Black Panther.

And now, New Black Power???  Ain't no such. The LCB-RD has made certain that the mere suggestion of black and power won't ever fly. Oh, it might hopalong a little bit as long as it stays below their radar. But Adam, the Blue Marvel? A Black man as powerful as the Sentry? Luke Cage without Danny Rand being in his immediate vicinity? Preposterous. The Black Panther being a character worthy of high estimation, position of leadership among his peers, able to utterly and convincingly defeat a villian like Dr. Doom - oh, we'll let him break the Red Skull's jaw, but when it comes to a Dr. Doom beatdown...perish the thought. The Black Panther married to a highly-regarded female character who also happens to be African and black? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope...nope.

I don't think we can rightly and totally blame the writers for T'Challa's stagnation as a character either. Offhand, I can think of at least 3 good faith efforts where writers/editorial...whoever...has tried to put Panther in situations and depict him in a manner where he displays power, confidence, leadership and other requisite qualities of a formidable character. What has been the result? As our brother indicated earlier, T'Challa is labled a "marty sue". That's how I see it. Now if only I could see a way in which we as Panther fans could successfully counter this.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 09, 2013, 07:57:24 am
Ture, they have both. If you look at the two page spread, you will see multiple shots fired past T'challa. Those were fire arms. One of the bad guys get's hit by gun, laser or whatever.

About the ships, the wow factor here in my opinion is the art by Opena and the fact that T'challa and Wakanda have a two page spread in Marvel major summer event. That he's actually out front doing something and Wakanda isn't being ignored or just important in his solo tie-in book.

Plus, I'm positive you will see that sort of stuff.


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 09, 2013, 08:15:15 am
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


This looks awesome!  It would appear to be a decision in direct contradiction to the one in which T'Challa, who was teased as part of "Fear Itself," was left out of the main action because he was seen as more of a "street level" player.  Just sayin'  ;D

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 09, 2013, 10:56:48 am
I'll admit that I started reading FF again thanks to hickman. Prior to that I was reading what Dmac was doing. As you notice both of those men did Tchalla justice in their writings.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 09, 2013, 11:53:17 am
Seven your counsel is well received. I thought those were the after effects of thrown spears. Totally in agreement with you about the art, and the two page spread in Marvel major summer event. 
Quote
Plus, I'm positive you will see that sort of stuff.

If such is the case then I will be very satisfied. I do not desire another Secret Invasion scenario. I thoroughly enjoyed it but its one disappointment was not seeing Wakandan ships and high tech weapons used against the Skrulls. Some have said the editors or writer himself stated that the Skrulls' tech was too advanced for the Wakandans. This fact however has never discouraged the Avengers or Fantastic Four.

Another gem dropped by Hickman is the fact that Wakanda now has the world's preeminent space program (even if it is some what by default). I interpret this as meaning that Hickman intends to demonstrate some star trekking... Wakandan style, when the time comes to engage Thanos. I do not want to see the Black Panther hop a ride on one of Reed's or Tony's vehicles.


Sinjection1, we as Panther fans will witness a successful counter this when we as a people recreate of our self image by better utilizing our collective tools socially, politically and economically. This will reduce some of the control that the mass media which is heavily influenced by multinational corporations wields over our representation.

Afrakan people need to counter the images of ourselves as being viewed as the poster child for impoverishment and the pinup for criminality. We need to discontinue any and all acts that lend themselves to our being perceived as the forlorn children of oppression seeking acceptance.

In our possession are the implements needed for manipulating our self image. Production companies, television stations, newspapers, blogs, publishers, universities and many willing bodies. The hard part is done.

Remember that ancient Afrakan proverb: With great power comes great responsibility... oh come on you know some Afrkan woman or man said it first. ;)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 09, 2013, 02:08:03 pm
Look. I love smack talking...it's fun. So let's just keep it on that level and not get too personal. So we can keep smack talking. It's all fun. And no hard feelings.

Seven,

You know me well enough to recognize that I come genuine and without guile at all times.

You also know that when a gauntlet is thrown down, I never fall back, relent or otherwise backdown from conflict.

FLEX chose to make it personal when he decided to falsely accuse me of throwing Reginald Hudlin under the bus in favour of Jonathan Hickman as well as trying to paint me as some self-hating black man lacking in knowledge of self because I just happen to appreciate Hickman's creation, depiction and utilization of Yabbat Ummon Sarru, (Black Swan) and the way in which he has T'Challa and B-Swizzle interacting on the pages of New Avengers.

I posted scans of one of T'Challa's worst jobbings ever (pre-Doomwar) to buttress the fact that no writer is above criticism as regards the oft'times gratuitous drubbings that some writers are renowned for putting T'Challa through but somehow, in the eyes of FLEX who always likes to let his mouth run like diarhea, I'm "hating" on Mr Hudlin as opposed to calling time on an out of context overeaction to the Hickman scripted confrontation between T'Challa (as part of an ensemble cast) and Terrax.

Dude, tried to come on here and try to get posters to dislike me on some ornery sleight of hand/double-speak protocols only to find that HEF posters aren't as easy to impress with parlour tricks and snake oil salesman charm as he obviously seemed to think.

At this juncture, it's gone way beyond the point of mere smack talk so I'm afraid it's a bit late in the day to be suing for peace.

You're a solid dude, so I genuinely appreciate the sentiments expressed in your post but I'm afraid it's too chaos undivided from here on out.

Peace. 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 09, 2013, 02:58:53 pm
Speaking of the devil.
[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1367958775[/url])
Look at who is leading the charge! Just saying.

Hickman is the man. At the end of the day, he will be on the Mount Rushmore of Black Panther with Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin...if he keeps this up.
([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/assets/images/articles/1367958775.jpg[/url])
This is in the main infinity book. So you got Wakanda front and center. And the siblings about to kick ***.


Powerful imagery. It appears that a solid, well-written, exquistely-illustrated, exciting story is in the offing, featuring Wakanda and her champions at the forefront. This could be the type of event featuring T'Challa we've been waiting for. Understandably, these are heady times for you faithful Wakandans who've been hanging on in the aftermath of doomwar and the annulment.


Very interesting, but considering this scene is probably early in the series, BP may not fare well.  But BP the human planner vs Thanos the immortal alien planner is a natural encounter.  (Especially now...the King of the Dead vs the one who courts Death.)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 09, 2013, 04:29:19 pm
Look. I love smack talking...it's fun. So let's just keep it on that level and not get too personal. So we can keep smack talking. It's all fun. And no hard feelings.

Seven,

You know me well enough to recognize that I come genuine and without guile at all times.

You also know that when a gauntlet is thrown down, I never fall back, relent or otherwise backdown from conflict.

FLEX chose to make it personal when he decided to falsely accuse me of throwing Reginald Hudlin under the bus in favour of Jonathan Hickman as well as trying to paint me as some self-hating black man lacking in knowledge of self because I just happen to appreciate Hickman's creation, depiction and utilization of Yabbat Ummon Sarru, (Black Swan) and the way in which he has T'Challa and B-Swizzle interacting on the pages of New Avengers.

I posted scans of one of T'Challa's worst jobbings ever (pre-Doomwar) to buttress the fact that no writer is above criticism as regards the oft'times gratuitous drubbings that some writers are renowned for putting T'Challa through but somehow, in the eyes of FLEX who always likes to let his mouth run like diarhea, I'm "hating" on Mr Hudlin as opposed to calling time on an out of context overeaction to the Hickman scripted confrontation between T'Challa (as part of an ensemble cast) and Terrax.

Dude, tried to come on here and try to get posters to dislike me on some ornery sleight of hand/double-speak protocols only to find that HEF posters aren't as easy to impress with parlour tricks and snake oil salesman charm as he obviously seemed to think.

At this juncture, it's gone way beyond the point of mere smack talk so I'm afraid it's a bit late in the day to be suing for peace.

You're a solid dude, so I genuinely appreciate the sentiments expressed in your post but I'm afraid it's too chaos undivided from here on out.

Peace.

Hey. I had to try.  :)
But you know that I'm partial to factual and visual evidence; bodies of facts.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 09, 2013, 04:37:23 pm
Here is the thing to always keep in mind with characters, they are never as good in reality as they are on paper. 

And plans never work when they hit reality, because no one can plan for every x-factor (except with bad writing).

 ???  Are you talking character concept to the comicbook page or a comicbook character's translation to the silver screen?


When you have a character's stats sheet, it describes him at his best.  Stories on the other hand are not about characters at their best.  Cap has been called the "god of winning".  But the truth is, he losses alot of fights, especially in the first round.  Or think Superman.  He is practically as fast as the Flash.  No one should be able to lay a hand on him.  He should be able to hit a thousand times before Doomsday can feel the first punch.  But he doesn't.  Or Flash. His greatest foes are nearly all normal men with gimmicks, yet they are threats to him.  On paper, they should all be in jail before they find out that the Flash has arrive.

Stories are not not should they be about the character at their best.  (They shouldn't be fools, but they are perfect either.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 09, 2013, 05:53:39 pm
Where did you get that was early on. There is no hint of where or when it takes place KIP.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 09, 2013, 06:06:25 pm
Flips Harvey Dent coin...


See what had happened was...


Wait a minute how dare you call my best Jedi mind tricks cheap parlour tricks and that snake oil is the same flaxseed oil that Barry Bonds uses to hit home runs so it's proven to work very effectively! :)


Anywho...


Cats hadn't heard from you in a good minute and when you show up here it is with baggage from an eBeef on CBR where you not only mocked Hudlin with my idea "Point Man" and then come in here throwing him under the bus only to accuse me of twisting up what is clearly seen on page 3 of this thread and also CBR archives!


You got emotional and it showed but I aint complaining just chalk it up as a bad day and keep it moving... Have some snake oil it's cherry flavored and high in omega-3 fatty acids!


You had what is called an "Anakin Skywalker Moment" where you force choked your own logic and ignored the responses you got from the Hudlin faithful who were inquisitive about your out of The No Where Room rants!


You teleported yourself right off the cliff like "BAMF" and then tried to place blame on everybody but yourself... Dude it happens people get fatigued posting in forums all the time and need a break!


You misinterpreted me and my diabolical ways for I prefer to have the whole thread against me not with me so I don't try to flip minds to throw shade on you when my ego demands all the attention and hate I can get!


It's the Katt Williams way and it sells better to have Haters galore after you!



http://youtu.be/J8gAb3uc6fk (http://youtu.be/J8gAb3uc6fk)




Look... Hudlin's having a BBQ at his house so we will have a mob boss type of sit-down and settle the family disputes over chicken, hamburgers and Ebony Maw!


How could we not love Chaos Bringer after all of that?



Okay back to Black Panther!



Peace









Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 09, 2013, 06:09:09 pm
Where did you get that was early on. There is no hint of where or when it takes place KIP.

I guess because Marvel doesn't usually produce books too far in advance, so the art work is usually for books early in the series.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 09, 2013, 06:33:33 pm
Where did you get that was early on. There is no hint of where or when it takes place KIP.

I guess because Marvel doesn't usually produce books too far in advance, so the art work is usually for books early in the series.  I could be wrong.

This is probably a different case. Opena a rotating Avengers artist and Avengers by nature has to be done in advance, because it double ships. Plus, he's a known planner.

There are seven artist in this event.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 09, 2013, 07:36:24 pm
Where did you get that was early on. There is no hint of where or when it takes place KIP.

I guess because Marvel doesn't usually produce books too far in advance, so the art work is usually for books early in the series.  I could be wrong.

This is probably a different case. Opena a rotating Avengers artist and Avengers by nature has to be done in advance, because it double ships. Plus, he's a known planner.

There are seven artist in this event.

If they did, they'd be telling us.  It was a big deal when Hitch drew all his issues for the Ultron story before issue one came out.  They used it as a selling point, probably because A) it isn't their normal way, and B) because they have a reputation of late books. 

Plus, Marvel usually only releases artwork for the next book, or at the most the book following that.  That scene is probably in issue one or two of Infinity..   Though, Black Dwarf could be a minor character in the grand scene and BP takes him out early.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 10, 2013, 01:55:11 am
Here is the thing to always keep in mind with characters, they are never as good in reality as they are on paper. 

And plans never work when they hit reality, because no one can plan for every x-factor (except with bad writing).

 ???  Are you talking character concept to the comicbook page or a comicbook character's translation to the silver screen?


When you have a character's stats sheet, it describes him at his best.  Stories on the other hand are not about characters at their best.  Cap has been called the "god of winning".  But the truth is, he losses alot of fights, especially in the first round.  Or think Superman.  He is practically as fast as the Flash.  No one should be able to lay a hand on him.  He should be able to hit a thousand times before Doomsday can feel the first punch.  But he doesn't.  Or Flash. His greatest foes are nearly all normal men with gimmicks, yet they are threats to him.  On paper, they should all be in jail before they find out that the Flash has arrive.

Stories are not not should they be about the character at their best.  (They shouldn't be fools, but they are perfect either.

It's funny that you mention stat sheets because in one of the more recent Marvel compilation books, I think the picture they showed beside Panther's was him getting choked out by somebody. It was either in that book or in one of those Marvel or Avengers encyclopedia deals.

But the real point I want to make is that you are right, that many stories are not about heroes at their best, but about them facing a seemingly insurmountable challenge and a lot of times taking a drubbing. In the current Batman: The Dark Knight #20, Batman takes a serious tail kicking from Emperor Penguin. Spoiler, but Batman triumphs decisively in the end.

With Panther and I would argue many black characters you get the beat down scene, but you don't always get the successful come back, with it being done in such a way that it reestablishes the hero as badass. With Panther it's too much threatening of what I'll do to you 'next time' instead of him kicking that behind right now so that the readers can see that he is not someone you mess with.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 10, 2013, 08:07:26 am
First the Black Panther organizes a team, now the X-Office decides to give Storm something to call her own. Notice that it's all female contrasting the all male New Avengers.

(http://x.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/3/70/50f4394733c1f/detail.jpg)

"Because you demanded it! The X-Women finally get their own book. Against a backdrop of what seems like an alien invasion and an eons-spanning war between brother and sister, Storm steps up and puts together a team to protect the child and stop a new threat that could destroy all life on earth!" Taken from http://marvel.com/news/story/ (http://marvel.com/news/story/)

(http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel/i/mg/c/00/518bba1ea29e5/detail.jpg)

"While the Avengers face an unprecedented challenge beyond the stars, Earth becomes ripe for the picking, prompting Thanos to lead a terrifying new army in pursuit of a clandestine goal! While a collection of heroes and protectors remain to fend off the Mad Titan, can they prevail without their mightiest?" Taken from http://marvel.com/news/story/ (http://marvel.com/news/story/)

I wonder if this means the Black Panther will not be traveling through the cosmos battling on alien planets?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 10, 2013, 09:41:55 am
Two different situations. Black Panther is the central character in New Avengers--the catalyst of the premise of the title. Jubilee is the central character in X-men, the focus character. Storm "forms" the team, but she's essentially in the same position give or take has she has been.

You have to ask, why won't they make her the central character rather then "the leader". Like she hasn't been leader in that book for 41 issues?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 10, 2013, 10:42:06 am
Here is the thing to always keep in mind with characters, they are never as good in reality as they are on paper. 

And plans never work when they hit reality, because no one can plan for every x-factor (except with bad writing).

 ???  Are you talking character concept to the comicbook page or a comicbook character's translation to the silver screen?


When you have a character's stats sheet, it describes him at his best.  Stories on the other hand are not about characters at their best.  Cap has been called the "god of winning".  But the truth is, he losses alot of fights, especially in the first round.  Or think Superman.  He is practically as fast as the Flash.  No one should be able to lay a hand on him.  He should be able to hit a thousand times before Doomsday can feel the first punch.  But he doesn't.  Or Flash. His greatest foes are nearly all normal men with gimmicks, yet they are threats to him.  On paper, they should all be in jail before they find out that the Flash has arrive.

Stories are not not should they be about the character at their best.  (They shouldn't be fools, but they are perfect either.

As always, it's good to see you Kip. It's been awhile.


True, to successfully create tension and suspense in a story, the antagonist must be a worthy, dastardly, and deadly opponent of the protagonist. As is your wont, you posted an interesting comment in Seven's topic discussing T'Challa's King Of The Dead upgrade. I'll be heading over there directly to respond and enjoy your reply. Cap may lose a round or two of a fight, but to the best of my knowledge brother, I can't ever remember him losing the fight itself .

There is that traditional storytelling device which has the hero being thrust into dire straits against an opponent ultimately to fight his way free of those extreme difficulties which usually results in the defeat of the villain. This has almost always been the case where A-List, fan favorite Captain America has been concerned. I seem to remember Cap being lured onto an abandoned oil tanker by Batroc whereupon he was promptly ambushed and beaten to a pulp by Mr. Hyde. I don't think this was during the brief period when Cap was benefiting from the super strength imparted to him by the super serum. When Cap came to himself, he was chained to the prow of the tanker and set on a collision course with a bridge, another ship...I can't remember which. For some reason, I must not have purchased the following issue, but I've no doubt that the story ended with a solid victory for Cap. The story was written and illustrated by John Byrne.

4Sake, if you're out there, now is the time to make your presence known; and bring the necessary scans with you, brother.

Hyde is well above Captain America's class in physical strength. If I had to guess how his encounter with Hyde concluded, I wouldn't doubt that Cap out-fought him. Now to the Black Panther who with strength and abilities enhanced by the Heart-shaped Herb and the blessings of the Panther God, makes him the equal if not the superior to Captain America. In the Peter Gillis story in which T'Challa defeats the Supremacists from Azania, the Black Panther is shown bulldogging a charging white rhinoceros. He might have been shown doing the exact same thing in the story "Panther's Rage" at some point. The rhino weighs in at 3 or 4 tons. T'Challa was shown wrestling a charging beast that size to the ground and subduing it. Could Captain America - sans his brief super strength upgrade - achieve such a feat? I've never seen him do so. It would seem from this example, that T'Challa is far more powerful physically, than is Captain America.

If the Black Panther is so strong and impervious to pain as to wrestle and subdue an enraged rhinoceros, it would seem to me that he should be able to fare better than he has against Dr. Doom. Writers - with the possible exception of Hudlin - have never seemed lacking when depicting T'Challa as being less than his best. That's the problem so many of us are lamenting and demanding it cease immediately. Conveniently it seems, Spider-Man's strength is said to be proportionate to the strength of a spider. How big of a spider? How "strong" is that spider? Spider-Man's strength level seems to be open-ended. He is able to take whatever the Kingpin - a character having no super powers, but possessed of peak human abilities and a corpulent body composed chiefly of solid muscle - can dish out. Spider-Man has demonstrated the strength and endurance to battle and defeat a herald of Galactus. The Black Panther on the other hand, is constantly being choked out and beaten down by the likes of Killmonger, Dr. Doom, and the like.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 10, 2013, 10:45:05 am
With Panther and I would argue many black characters you get the beat down scene, but you don't always get the successful come back, with it being done in such a way that it reestablishes the hero as badass. With Panther it's too much threatening of what I'll do to you 'next time' instead of him kicking that behind right now so that the readers can see that he is not someone you mess with.

QFT! Well said.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 10, 2013, 11:02:58 am
 Cap may lose a round or two of a fight, but to the best of my knowledge brother, I can't ever remember him losing the fight itself
-----------

But there have been several times where Cap didn't win the battle, someone else does.  Happens a lot the Avengers.

-------------
If the Black Panther is so strong and impervious to pain as to wrestle and subdue an enraged rhinoceros, it would seem to me that he should be able to fare better than he has against Dr. Doom. Writers - with the possible exception of Hudlin - have never seemed lacking when depicting T'Challa as being less than his best. That's the problem so many of us are lamenting and demanding it cease immediately. Conveniently it seems, Spider-Man's strength is said to be proportionate to the strength of a spider. How big of a spider? How "strong" is that spider? Spider-Man's strength level seems to be open-ended. He is able to take whatever the Kingpin - a character having no super powers, but possessed of peak human abilities and a corpulent body composed chiefly of solid muscle - can dish out. Spider-Man has demonstrated the strength and endurance to battle and defeat a herald of Galactus. The Black Panther on the other hand, is constantly being choked out and beaten down by the likes of Killmonger, Dr. Doom, and the like.

--------------

Sometimes, characters at written wrong, both up and down.  BP taking down a rhino or Spider-man beating Firelord, or Kingpin vs Spidey...sometimes characters are written wrong, sometimes they have a bad day or an extremely good day.  So basically single stories should never be viewed as the measuring stick (good or bad) but the overall history.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Moose100 on May 10, 2013, 11:52:51 am
BP to start shooting next Year???!!

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=79312 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=79312)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 10, 2013, 12:50:35 pm
And is this is my reason why Squirel Girl should be apart of the illuminati.


All jokes aside the one fight I called bollocks on was Captain America and Nick Fury pounding up the U-foes like the were hydra.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 10, 2013, 02:06:15 pm
As near as I can tell from the promo stuff the main Avengers team go out into space.

The Illuminati is left to defend Earth against THanos' henchmen, the Black Order.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 10, 2013, 02:07:55 pm
KIP. If Opena is drawing that, then it's likely not going to be the first or second issue.

Quote
On "Infinity," we're seeing the latest permutation of Marvel's new model of getting multiple artists for a book but finding ways to not make that transition jarring to readers. Jim Cheung is doing the first wave of the story before Dustin Weaver and Jerome Opeña come in to do some specific parts of their own. How did you work to assign them beats that would work to their strengths?

Alonso: It's the same challenge that "AvX" presented, that any multi-shipping ongoing series presents. You have a story that's going to be told on an accelerated schedule, so you sit down to figure out which artists are appropriate and available. And with an event story like this, you tend to have enough advance time to get the artists you want. There was no one better to set the stage for this story than Jimmy, and the Jerome and Dustin are top-flight artists who excel at drawing the kind of free-wheeling science fiction this story is all about.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 10, 2013, 04:19:16 pm
KIP. If Opena is drawing that, then it's likely not going to be the first or second issue.

Quote
On "Infinity," we're seeing the latest permutation of Marvel's new model of getting multiple artists for a book but finding ways to not make that transition jarring to readers. Jim Cheung is doing the first wave of the story before Dustin Weaver and Jerome Opeña come in to do some specific parts of their own. How did you work to assign them beats that would work to their strengths?

Alonso: It's the same challenge that "AvX" presented, that any multi-shipping ongoing series presents. You have a story that's going to be told on an accelerated schedule, so you sit down to figure out which artists are appropriate and available. And with an event story like this, you tend to have enough advance time to get the artists you want. There was no one better to set the stage for this story than Jimmy, and the Jerome and Dustin are top-flight artists who excel at drawing the kind of free-wheeling science fiction this story is all about.


If the promos news are indication, he is either drawing issue two and five or there and four.  (In promo he is listed second in list of rotating artists.)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 10, 2013, 08:39:54 pm
More good news!!!

"We know what Marvel movies are part of Phase 2 of the Cinematic Universe: ‘Iron Man 3,’ ‘Thor 2,’ ‘Captain America 2,’ ‘Guardians of the Galaxy‘ and ‘The Avengers 2.’ Beyond that, all that has been confirmed is Edgar Wright’s ‘Ant-Man.’ But in an article on the future of ‘The Avengers’ we’ve got confirmation on what other movies Marvel is developing and it looks like Phase 3 is about to get very, very big."

"The Hollywood Reporter revealed in a wide-ranging article on the future of Marvel that the studio currently has scripts in the works for ‘Ms. Marvel’ and a ‘Blade’ reboot and are actively developing ‘Doctor Strange,’ ‘Iron Fist,’ Black Panther’ and ‘The Runaways’ movies. So what do you think of these films? There are some films we’d previously heard of (Marvel has been trying to crack a ‘Black Panther’ film for years)."

I took all the pertinent  Black Panther material but here's the link anyhow.

[url]http://screencrush.com/marvel-upcoming-movies/[/url] ([url]http://screencrush.com/marvel-upcoming-movies/[/url])


Big 6
Finally, Marvel/Disney are gaining momentum.

I think Hickman is on-point. Criticisms aside, I’m still quite entertained.
Future Supa-Cat(BP) projects, status, powers, blackness & films =no worries

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/05/09/disney-marvel-comics-big-hero-6-animation/2147293/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/05/09/disney-marvel-comics-big-hero-6-animation/2147293/)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 10, 2013, 10:38:31 pm
But there have been several times where Cap didn't win the battle, someone else does.  Happens a lot the Avengers.

The only instance I can think of where it could be said Captain America actually flat lost was Civil War. He quit on T'Challa and Ororo just when they committed to his cause. During that war, Captain America fought Spider-Man. Not only did Captain America fight Spider-Man; Captain America beat Spider-Man.  Most Marvel Comics fans would think that Spider-Man would win in a walk over Captain America. Spidey did beat the Herald of Galactus, afterall. But Spider-Man, enjoying the advantage of his spider sense, spider strength, speed, and agility and augmented by the advanced armor given him by Stark, was so frightened of Captain America he all but soiled himself. That's how the encounter was written.

As to your point about Cap losing battles which the Avengers had to win for him. I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Avengers vs Defenders saw Cap vs Namor for possession of a segment of the "Evil Eye". It could be said the Captain took an "L". In that particular event however, the Defender seemed to top the Avenger every single time with Thor and Hulk fighting each other to a standstill. In most cases however, the Avengers fight as a team. If one member falters during battle, it's usually the case that his effort contributes positively to the ultimate Avengers' win.  In T'Challa's first action as a "pre-Avenger", he single-handedly defeated the Grim Reaper, rescuing Wasp, Goliath, and Hawkeye while clearing himself of their "murder" in the process. It could be said that T'Challa was the MVP, but it was an Avengers' win. Captain America usually wins every conflict when the featured character in a solo title.

Quote
Sometimes, characters at written wrong, both up and down.

Any fan of the Black Panther is acutely aware of how true your statement is. Perhaps more than any other Marvel Comics character, Panther has been victimized by "wrong way writing". Often this is the case when depicting T'Challa as befits his rightful character attributes might rub some fans - usually LCB-RD - the wrong way.

 
Quote
BP taking down a rhino or Spider-man beating Firelord, or Kingpin vs Spidey...sometimes characters are written wrong, sometimes they have a bad day or an extremely good day.  So basically single stories should never be viewed as the measuring stick (good or bad) but the overall history.

When writers have an "overall history" of usually writing the Black Panther and other black characters as less than even their "stat sheets" indicate they should be, that "overall history" becomes a biased HIS tory. Case in point: most Black Panther fans would probably agree that the initial encounter between Captain America and Azzuri the Wise wasn't written correctly until Hudlin's rendition set it right. The measuring stick used for white characters has a sliding value which often enhances while the measuring stick used for black characters seems set to an inferior scale.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 11, 2013, 12:02:16 am
Here a little Black Panther action courtesy of Marvel Heroes, the upcoming action MMORPG. For more info https://marvelheroes.com/ (https://marvelheroes.com/)
Thanks to Jabare  of CBR for posting this.

Marvel Heroes - Black Panther Gameplay (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giBkVMTPXeM#ws)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 11, 2013, 04:26:34 am
SINJECTION:  As to your point about Cap losing battles which the Avengers had to win for him. I respectfully disagree with your conclusion. Avengers vs Defenders saw Cap vs Namor for possession of a segment of the "Evil Eye". It could be said the Captain took an "L". In that particular event however, the Defender seemed to top the Avenger every single time with Thor and Hulk fighting each other to a standstill. In most cases however, the Avengers fight as a team. If one member falters during battle, it's usually the case that his effort contributes positively to the ultimate Avengers' win.
------------------.


On the other hand, when the Avengers fought Ultron, Cap got in The Scarlet Witch's way as she was about to take out Ultron and gets himself and her blasted.  In round two, he didn't show up because he was in a coma.  Or in first battle with Count Neferia, he was hurt, he couldn't even join in on the last fight, so he lent Wonder Man his shield.  Cap was taken out in the first round and someone else won the final round. 

---------------------
Sinjection:  When writers have an "overall history" of usually writing the Black Panther and other black characters as less than even their "stat sheets" indicate they should be, that "overall history" becomes a biased HIS tory

------------------------

This is one of the problems I have with this kind of debate.  To me, if the stats say a character should be "B", but the overall history says he is "A", then the stats are wrong (unless the creator says "B" is right).  What is written in story is the only thing that counts.  What it should be, doesn't count as much as what it is.  The only way that changes is either an in-story explanation, ignoring continuity and going off in a new direction, or tons of stories going in the other direction. 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 11, 2013, 08:07:28 am
 Kip, you know how much I enjoy having this type of discussion with you. We could go on forever and a day. "Well, Cap was beaten down by this guy in this issue." "I'll see your beat down in that issue and raise with his stellar performance in these 3 issues." Bottom line. Cap is a revered, time-honored A-List Marvel Comics character and national icon. When he "died", his death made national news. Was Cap dead even 2 years before making his triumphant return?  T'Challa - though a formidable character in his own right - has never enjoyed the shine of Captain America. How much national press did T'Challa's wedding to Ororo Munroe garner?

I don't want to misunderstand you, so I'll get your clarification on what you're saying:

To me, if the stats say a character should be "B", but the overall history says he is "A", then the stats are wrong (unless the creator says "B" is right).  What is written in story is the only thing that counts.  What it should be, doesn't count as much as what it is.  The only way that changes is either an in-story explanation, ignoring continuity and going off in a new direction, or tons of stories going in the other direction. 

It's as if you're saying that if a vehicle was built to be a high performance Maserati, but it's "written history" says it should actually peform like a VW Beetle, then that should be the true measure of that Maserati. The military builds a top of the line aircraft carrier with awesome specs, but if its' "written history" says it should perform like a rowboat, then that is the true measure of that aircraft carrier.

As I recall from one of our sparrings of yesteryear, you gave as one reason why Hawkeye should be considered a character worthy of being an Avenger and fighting Avengers-level threats was that he was personally trained by none other than Captain America...the same Cap for which you have cited examples of his losing is a perennial top choice as being the definitive leader of any team of "Earth's Mightiest Heroes". Conversely, T'Challa - a character every bit as formidable as Captain America - has languished in mediocrity and at times, worse than mediocrity.

Hearkening back to the title Ture graced us with: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power? IMHO, and I would venture to assume that we might be in agreement on this point, there was really nothing terribly the matter with the "old" Black Panther. Supreme Illuminati for one, has said this more than once. T'Challa is (was), a world class athlete functioning at the very peak of human capacity which was then augmented by the mysterious properties of the Heart-shaped Herb. The thing that has been perpetually wrong with the Black Panther has been "wrong way writing" we might assume is in part the result of LCB-RD fan hostility and/or indifference.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 11, 2013, 08:43:38 am
Remember that ancient Afrakan proverb: With great power comes great responsibility... oh come on you know some Afrkan woman or man said it first. ;)

 :) Yes sir, Dear Brother.



Sinjection1, we as Panther fans will witness a successful counter this when we as a people recreate of our self image by better utilizing our collective tools socially, politically and economically. This will reduce some of the control that the mass media which is heavily influenced by multinational corporations wields over our representation.

Afrakan people need to counter the images of ourselves as being viewed as the poster child for impoverishment and the pinup for criminality. We need to discontinue any and all acts that lend themselves to our being perceived as the forlorn children of oppression seeking acceptance.

In our possession are the implements needed for manipulating our self image. Production companies, television stations, newspapers, blogs, publishers, universities and many willing bodies. The hard part is done.

Beautifully stated and as usual, right on point. We both know however, brother, that we have often been our own stumbling block, our own worst steward of our own images, accomplishments and aspirations. One of our most recent achievements - gangsta rap -  is chiefly consumed by LCB-RD types, largely emulated, imitated and yes, appropriated by LCB-RD types. Am I wrong? If the Black Panther had been a gangsta rap, he'd be going gangbusters. Move over "Harlem Shake". Here comes the "Wakandan Shake".

But, no.

T'Challa is the Black Panther. His very name evokes the memory of the Black Panther Party, an organization many LCB-RD types might equate with the ku klux klan in reverse. T'Challa is Jackie Robinson without the happy ending. Jackie triumphed. T'Challa is still fighting the fight. T'Challa is the Muhammad Ali whose advisor was the late, great Malcolm X and who refused to go to war against the Vietnamese. Today, Muhammad Ali is beloved throughout the world, but T'Challa's greatness is dismissed as being "marty sue".

Black athletic dominance is the reality in the NBA, and although some vocal white fans through their complaints, were able to compel David Stern to impose a dress code on the players so their personal appearance and clothing preferences were not so off-putting to the "larger basketball ticket-purchasing demographic", black athletic dominance continues to rule supreme in the NBA. This is an objective reality, beyond the means of a possibly-resentful white fanbase to change, unless of course...they stop buying tickets, NBA merchandise, and stop attending games.

The Black Panther is at the mercy of the subjectivity and thus the indifference and hostility of the LCB-RD. The Black Panther enjoys the support of a loyal niche audience but to date, this support has not prevented T'Challa from being buffeted by the vagries of "writer's choice" often dictated by the whims of the LCB-RD.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 11, 2013, 02:35:28 pm
NA is my favorite book right now and it would be even if BP was not in it. I thought Hickman's SHIELD was outstanding so I'm in for Infinity. He's very good he even made me like FF and I really usually don't care about them.  As far as T'Challa being "perfect" he is far from that--but THAT is exactly what a portion of his fandom want. They judge his every appearance by their yardstick of perfection. What I plan to do is read these books and enjoy and not let others--BP fans and detractors--suck the joy out of it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 11, 2013, 06:14:25 pm
Nobody is saying T'Challa should have beaten Terrax single-handedly...good lord, we're not saying that. Remember the LCB-RD outrage when the Panther was able to apply an arm-bar hold on the Silver Surfer. I'm saying that unless the LCB-RD attitude toward black characters is that they will actually support that character with their dollars, it doesn't matter how formidable T'Challa, the Black Panther becomes, he will always be lesser than Wolverine, lesser than Hawkeye, lesser than Irredeemable Ant Man; lesser than other characters which IMHO, he is superior to in every respect.


Exactly Sin!  Suggesting that T'Challa could've set-up Terrax for Black Bolt and avoided being swatted away as one would swat a fly (not even as one rarely makes contact with a fly, more like one of those fat, jumbo Bumblebees that aren't very nimble) is far from suggesting he take Terrax down single-handedly.  It is also completely reasonable and consistent with his skill-set, not even Terrax fan-boys could have credibly complained that T'Challa was being displayed as too powerful for evading a blow.  Yet T'Challa would have been portrayed in a far more effective context.  This is not hating on Hickman, it is constructive criticism.  Do not be surprised to get what you get if you never make what you want known. 

Peace,

Mont


So let me get this correct,

Cat's are complaining that T'Challa's full skill set as a master tactitian was not employed against Terrax and that in addition to that, he was "swatted away" by Terrax even though he was the only combatant to actually strike what would have been a killing blow on a non-cosmically enhanced opponent?

Well, I guess T'Challa's much vaunted tactical awareness and supreme prep time protocols weren't that much of a big deal to some of you when this happened......

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Dude was written walking blind into a meeting with Namor without letting anyone in Wakanda know where he was going. (Tactical blunder numero uno).

Rolling with just three Dora milaje's and none of his augmented armor or weaponry. (Tactical blunder numero dos)

And finally, walking right into the fully armored and "backed up to the teeth by automatons" Doctor Doom before being summarily blasted in the face by the aforementioned good Doctor after falling for the ol' Doombot ploy. (Tactical blunder numero tres)

Yeah, I see how that advanced prep thing works now. :smdh:



Actually, that DID draw a strong reaction from most of us...but we knew what was going on.

Reggie Reg...Mr. R to the H...wrote that book. The same guy who resurrected NP, actually made him an A-Lister, and wrote the Blackest, most hardcore BP in history. The guy who pulled off the Marriage of the Century. The guy who had TChalla just pump slapping people. The first and only guy to write not just one but TWO Panthers beating Steve Rogers. The first and only guy to write TChalla handily overwhelming Logan. The guy who made the hatas recognize TChalla's supergenius IQ, despite the definitive genius work of the much overlooked Priest. This is the only guy to write more than 2 Black heroes together on the same panel ins Black comic working as a team in a Black city without a White hero in sight or needed
.
This guy got Marvel to include TChalla in major events and not as a chump  or Affirmative Action point all the, either...whereas they ignored and demeaned TChalla as a matter of course prior to RH. This is the guy that EJD twrite that TChaka ( retconned to Azziri ) whoopin Cap was not due to the Heart Shaped Herb, as the HSH is not a SSS knockoff.

This guy wrote FLAGS OF OUR FATHERS.

So yeah, we look at this whole Doomom RH differently. We know RH BPouldn't sell out cuz RH won't sell out. We know that RH would have BP handing out severe beatdowns to Doom.

Other writers? Nah. Not them.


Apart from Civil War, what other big events did Mr Hudlin's Black Panther feature in?

And does anything in your post actually address why Mr Hudlin's Black Panther walked into the Doom ambush so unprepared?

I only ask this qiestion because some of you seem to have an issue with Hickman's portrayal of T'Challa in the terrax encounter feeling that he wasn't portrayed in a suitably polymathic manner.

I'm just trying to understand why some are acting as if Hickman has shortchanged T'Challa in some manner?


I think you posed a legit question, Salustrade...and my answer to you is:


World War Hulk

That FAVORITE SON or whatever it was that included the aftereffects of Steve Rogers' death

Remember that time that BP was all over the place? He even supplied the Young Avengers Hawkeye with the arrow she used to take down Iron Man

And. for the first time and only time. TChalla was making waves being felt all across the MU...without having to leave his own comic book.

Let's throw in crossovers with the X-Men and House of M too, both of which would not have happened on such grand a scale and with such respect had RH not been there.

Let's throw in ULTIMATE UNIVERSE BLACK PANTHER, too...which didn't exist and wasn't even thought about pre-RH.

Let's also remember that TChalla was shown in the mighty Wolverine book, not once but TWICE...as being a powerful, lethal warrior that Wolverine had a deep respect for. And TChalla even hired Wolverine and sent Wolverine on a mission to rescue the female heir to the leadership of a war torn African country.

And let us not forget SECRET INVASION, which also would NEVER have included TChalla if not for RH.

And yeah...MARVEL ZOMBIES included TChalla as well.

In each of these stories except for WORLD WAR HULK TChalla was deeply respected as a formidable, uberintelligent elite intellect who is both highly enigmatic and fatal in his own right.

Let us not forget Warren Ellis wrote Ororo referencing TChalla lovingly in his GHOST BOX story.

Let us not forget WORLDS APART by YOST.

Have we so soon forgotten the incredible work that the late great Maestro Dwayne McDuffie had TChalla rip shop in the F4 and I must say...he wrote circles around our own RH's books which he authored around the same time.

While we're at it...did we ever see TChalla actually visit another planet on his own volition with his own resources, prior to RH? No?

Howzabout TChalla's impact on Captain Britain's team, by keeping and then later allowing his wife to return the Ebony Blade? And have we ever seen TChalla rock magic armor prior to RH?  No?

RH did so much that we could overlook a Marvel Editorial mandated, RH translated DOOM thing.  Hickman has more work to do before he equals RH and Priest stature, but he's got a pretty good start...all things considered.

And that is just off top. No Google-Fu needed. All of this directly due to RH's influence.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 11, 2013, 06:24:24 pm
SI I agree with Salustrade as well--great post btw. There is nothing wrong with critical criticism.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 11, 2013, 08:10:25 pm
SI I agree with Salustrade as well--great post btw. There is nothing wrong with critical criticism.

Wait, what!?!?!? :o
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 12, 2013, 04:45:11 am
SI: While we're at it...did we ever see TChalla actually visit another planet on his own volition with his own resources, prior to RH? No
--------------
When did T visit another planet under his own resources?  I remember the moon trip.  In FF he went to space, but that was FF and a different writer.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 12, 2013, 05:18:50 am
SI: While we're at it...did we ever see TChalla actually visit another planet on his own volition with his own resources, prior to RH? No
--------------
When did T visit another planet under his own resources?  I remember the moon trip.  In FF he went to space, but that was FF and a different writer.
Even though it was those frogs but technically he did go to other planets
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 12, 2013, 06:20:27 am
SI: While we're at it...did we ever see TChalla actually visit another planet on his own volition with his own resources, prior to RH? No
--------------
When did T visit another planet under his own resources?  I remember the moon trip.  In FF he went to space, but that was FF and a different writer.
Even though it was those frogs but technically he did go to other planets

Well, there is a question of who is using who with the Frogs. 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 12, 2013, 11:18:25 am
Under Priest, in BP#27, Ross stated that the N'Yami class mother ship could operate as readily in outer space as on the ocean floor. Unfortunately we did not get the opportunity to witness such.

I think SI is referencing the moon trip. Hudlin is the only writer to actually demonstrate Wakanda and by extension the Black Panther as having a fully functional space program.

Under Hickman Tchalla has stated they have the preeminent space program on the planet.Hickman may soon demonstrate the capacity of such a program.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 12, 2013, 11:45:29 am
SI I agree with Salustrade as well--great post btw. There is nothing wrong with critical criticism.

Wait, what!?!?!? :o
I'm not following you.

Im saying SI has points, but I agree with Salustade post. Which is simply critical criticism. I don't think you can gloss over that scene in the context it was being placed and Salustade is well aware of the editorial obstruction. I actually caught wind from a Marvel employee in the know about what was going to happen or at least what Mr. Hudlin wanted to do. Sals is aware, but it doesn't change the point he was making.

Like I said, Lee, Kirby, Mcgregor, Priest and Hudlin are on the Mount Rushmore of The Black Panther. Hickman can make his way on to it as well. The fact that T'challa is so visible in titles with major foot prints is something to be applauded.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 12, 2013, 02:21:06 pm
The fact that T'challa is so visible in titles with major foot prints is something to be applauded.

And that has a lot of folks mad
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 12, 2013, 02:37:06 pm
Quote
We both know however, brother, that we have often been our own stumbling block, our own worst steward of our own images, accomplishments and aspirations.

Sinjection1, this true to extent that we choose not to export through our own resources the images that would best serve our collective interest. Add to that we often do not agree on what those interest are. We depend too heavily own the concepts of individualism, diversity, inclusion and so called free will. Remember a weakness is nothing more than an strength that can be exploited. Once the question Are so called Black people really a people and if so what defines such ? can be definitively answered we will move  more  cohesively under our own authority.

Quote
T'Challa is Jackie Robinson without the happy ending.

Was Jackie Robinson a happy ending? Taking nothing from the personal achievements of Robinson, his breaking the color barrier had some serious collateral damage as the fight for inclusion so often does. During the four years immediately following Robinson's debut with the Dodgers virtually all of the Negro Leagues' best talent left the leagues for opportunities with integrated teams. With this sudden and dramatic departure of talent the team owners witnessed a financially devastating decline in attendance at Negro League games.The three major Negro League circuits  were one of the largest and most successful black-owned enterprises in American history.

The Black Panther is indeed analogous to this. As a solo comic book star centered in his own world (but not ignoring the happenings outside said world) he is viewed only marginally as if to infer his world is simply not adequate. Even if inadequacy were true why not work to make sufficient the world you call your own as opposed to abandoning it.

With regards to so called Black athletic dominance this is easily countered by White team ownership, White stadium ownership, White vending and merchadising ownership and White equipment manufacturing. Perhaps the very concept of the game itself is owed to White people. The very fact they can dictate how one is to dress speaks volumes.

The above statements demonstrate the challenges that may curtail the Black Panther from reaching the popularity and exposure of an Ironman or Batman. We have supported and identified with white superheroes without having to see one drop of "blackness" in these fictitious heroes. Whites support and identify with black superheroes with far less frequency and the absence of 'whiteness is often a discouragement.

Black Panther remains my favorite pop culture comic book superhero because of what he represents when written at his best with all his cultural nuances in place. Those nuances when delivered  reluctantly by Priest  and brazenly by Hudlin are what insult, turn off and infuriate your LCB-RD.The question remains is it enough to compliment, turn on and inspire us?





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 12, 2013, 02:45:12 pm
I think you posed a legit question, Salustrade...and my answer to you is:


World War Hulk

That FAVORITE SON or whatever it was that included the aftereffects of Steve Rogers' death

Remember that time that BP was all over the place? He even supplied the Young Avengers Hawkeye with the arrow she used to take down Iron Man

And. for the first time and only time. TChalla was making waves being felt all across the MU...without having to leave his own comic book.

Let's throw in crossovers with the X-Men and House of M too, both of which would not have happened on such grand a scale and with such respect had RH not been there.

Let's throw in ULTIMATE UNIVERSE BLACK PANTHER, too...which didn't exist and wasn't even thought about pre-RH.

Let's also remember that TChalla was shown in the mighty Wolverine book, not once but TWICE...as being a powerful, lethal warrior that Wolverine had a deep respect for. And TChalla even hired Wolverine and sent Wolverine on a mission to rescue the female heir to the leadership of a war torn African country.

And let us not forget SECRET INVASION, which also would NEVER have included TChalla if not for RH.

And yeah...MARVEL ZOMBIES included TChalla as well.

In each of these stories except for WORLD WAR HULK TChalla was deeply respected as a formidable, uberintelligent elite intellect who is both highly enigmatic and fatal in his own right.

Let us not forget Warren Ellis wrote Ororo referencing TChalla lovingly in his GHOST BOX story.

Let us not forget WORLDS APART by YOST.

Have we so soon forgotten the incredible work that the late great Maestro Dwayne McDuffie had TChalla rip shop in the F4 and I must say...he wrote circles around our own RH's books which he authored around the same time.

While we're at it...did we ever see TChalla actually visit another planet on his own volition with his own resources, prior to RH? No?

Howzabout TChalla's impact on Captain Britain's team, by keeping and then later allowing his wife to return the Ebony Blade? And have we ever seen TChalla rock magic armor prior to RH?  No?

RH did so much that we could overlook a Marvel Editorial mandated, RH translated DOOM thing.  Hickman has more work to do before he equals RH and Priest stature, but he's got a pretty good start...all things considered.

And that is just off top. No Google-Fu needed. All of this directly due to RH's influence.

I'm still confused as to what any of what you've typed here has to do with my initial post detailing how Reginald Hudlin's closing arc on the BP monthly ongoing (at that time) created the opening that Jonathan Maberry used to launch Doomwar.

You seem to be under some impression that I have a problem with the entirety of Mr Hudlin's BP work which is both unfortunate and quite incorrect.

Most people familiar with my posting style both here and on CBR are aware of the fact that I am one of the posters who has consistently defended Mr Hudlin against many of his detractors over there especially as regards hs stellar work on the Black Panther book and his orchestration of the marriage between T'Challa and Ororo.

All of the points that you raised as regards T'Challa's activities and influence within the 616 MU while both Reginald Hudlin and Maestro McDuffie are known and have been celebrated by myself and other fans of the BP mythos so it's not as if you're pointing at something new to me here.

I only posted the scans of the Hudlin scripted near annihilation of T'challa at the hands of Doom as a counter to the assertions that Hickman could have had T'Challa easily evading Terrax's back swing if he had a greater grasp of the characters strengths, abilities and general skill set.

The fact that T'Challa was more or less the only combatant in that scenario to actually lay a hand on Terrax while the other Illuminati members were being swatted away alongside of him without even getting a chance to lay a figure on Terrax says a lot more about T'Challa's abilities than most are prepared to give Hickman credit for illustrating here.

I have no doubt that Hickman will put T'Challa through his paces during the Infinity event so I wait patiently for the beginning of said event and appreciate what Hickman is currently doing with T'Challa in the New Avengers book.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 12, 2013, 02:53:27 pm
Sinjection:  It's as if you're saying that if a vehicle was built to be a high performance Maserati, but it's "written history" says it should actually peform like a VW Beetle, then that should be the true measure of that Maserati. The military builds a top of the line aircraft carrier with awesome specs, but if its' "written history" says it should perform like a rowboat, then that is the true measure of that aircraft carrier

--------

The difference between a real thing and a work of fiction, is a real thing's ability is independent of its user.  But fictional character has nothing, apart from what is written.  And my point is the actual stories count for more than stat sheets, or narrative descriptions.  People say, Juggernaut is unstoppable, but he has been stopped before.  Hulk is said to be the "strongest one of all", but we know that isn't technically true.  It is hyperbole.  A necessary part of storytelling, but it is the reason characters aren't always as good as their hype.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 13, 2013, 07:31:37 am
Sinjection1, this true to extent that we choose not to export through our own resources the images that would best serve our collective interest. Add to that we often do not agree on what those interest are. We depend too heavily own the concepts of individualism, diversity, inclusion and so called free will. Remember a weakness is nothing more than an strength that can be exploited. Once the question Are so called Black people really a people and if so what defines such ? can be definitively answered we will move  more  cohesively under our own authority.

I can always depend upon you to expand the scope of my ruminating and opinionating within the span of a paragraph. The experience of black people in the United States has been complex and multi-faceted but one overall aspect of that experience is that of being a second-class, subject people. History however, reveals that on the whole, through centuries of crushing challenges and cruel deprivations our people have endured and excelled.

We are spiritual, powerful, ingenious, talented, courageous, resilient...the superlatives are endless. White people know this to be so, which is why black people have been closely scrutinized and oppressed. This has allowed the larger society to exploit, imitate, emulate, appropriate, and expropriate those resources and the fruits of our efforts through the use of those resources. Avenues through which we have been able to express the unique characteristics of our humanity have been few and narrow. Athletics and entertainment seemed the most accessible and there, our people have absolutely influenced not only the course of national popular culture, but global popular culture. Motown Records, Muhammad Ali, Michael Jackson while not always recognized as solely black culture, but rather U.S. culture...while not necessarily serving black collective interest...has nevertheless, positively reflected on black U.S. culture as a whole.

As is often the case however, you are right on point. "Are so called Black people really a people and if so what defines such ?[/color] can be definitively answered we will move  more  cohesively under our own authority."[/i] This statement stands on its own, true and profound.

Quote
Was Jackie Robinson a happy ending? Taking nothing from the personal achievements of Robinson, his breaking the color barrier had some serious collateral damage as the fight for inclusion so often does. During the four years immediately following Robinson's debut with the Dodgers virtually all of the Negro Leagues' best talent left the leagues for opportunities with integrated teams. With this sudden and dramatic departure of talent the team owners witnessed a financially devastating decline in attendance at Negro League games.The three major Negro League circuits  were one of the largest and most successful black-owned enterprises in American history.

This, the double-edged sword of integration. Assimilation, that "capitulation" so necessary of the designated "minority" communities to begin the process of recognition by and admission as members of any greater community almost always is destructive to a large degree to the unique character and culture of that minority community. The history of Jazz music is that it was created by blacks in America, but it is recognized as America's Original Artform, American culture's gift to the world. The "elevation" of talented black athletes into the "big leagues", profited those athletes and paved the road for more to follow, while spelling doom for the Negro Leagues. Interestingly, Major League Baseball has this year, commissioned a study by experts to look into the cause(s) as to why black participation in baseball has declined precipitiously.

Quote
The Black Panther is indeed analogous to this. As a solo comic book star centered in his own world (but not ignoring the happenings outside said world) he is viewed only marginally as if to infer his world is simply not adequate. Even if inadequacy were true why not work to make sufficient the world you call your own as opposed to abandoning it.

Again, IMHO, this is how the LCB-RD is able to keep T'Challa "leashed" and a perpetual B or C-List character. When the Black Panther becomes "Hudlinized-Black Panther", elements of the LCB-RD has been able frustrate the Panther's ascension to the character he was always meant to be through ridicule, redoubled indifference, and/or labeling the character as a "marty sue". The boast that Wakanda had never been defeated/conquered was as if waving a red flag in their faces. Writers have allowed Doom and Namor to inflict incredible destruction on Wakanda, placating and appeasing that element of the LCB-RD. Annuling the Marriage and allowing Ororo to ignore the entreaties of her erstwhile husband and engaging in sexual intercourse with the nasty, hairy troll that is Wolverine, was the cherry on top.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 13, 2013, 08:01:07 am
Sinjection:  It's as if you're saying that if a vehicle was built to be a high performance Maserati, but it's "written history" says it should actually peform like a VW Beetle, then that should be the true measure of that Maserati. The military builds a top of the line aircraft carrier with awesome specs, but if its' "written history" says it should perform like a rowboat, then that is the true measure of that aircraft carrier

--------

The difference between a real thing and a work of fiction, is a real thing's ability is independent of its user.  But fictional character has nothing, apart from what is written.

An owner of a Maserati can choose either to put the vehicle through all of its paces or simply have it towed to car show, from car show to another car show, never driving it one day. In this sense, this "real thing's ability" is directly dependent on its user.

T'Challa, the Black Panther was created an excellent comicbook character, equipped with an exotic origin and attributes which should have made him a fan favorite. But like the example of the Maserati owner who chooses not to test and enjoy the full potential of his vehicle, writers of the Black Panther - often frustrated by their self-professed lack of knowledge of the culture of the character - have not allowed the Panther to realize his full potential of his character.



Quote
  And my point is the actual stories count for more than stat sheets, or narrative descriptions.  People say, Juggernaut is unstoppable, but he has been stopped before.  Hulk is said to be the "strongest one of all", but we know that isn't technically true.  It is hyperbole.  A necessary part of storytelling, but it is the reason characters aren't always as good as their hype.

The Black Cat was simply the daughter of a legendary cat burgular. Written as having the where with all to attract the notice of Spider-Man and to keep up with his exploits, the character (writers of this fictional character), wanted more. Enter the Kingpin. The Black Cat is given a power of causing "bad luck" to befall an opponent. The Black Cat was never as good as her hype IMO and the "bad luck" power only made her appear more ridiculous. However, because she was a shapely fem fatale and romantic interest for Spider-Man, she has endured as a character.

This brings me to Domino, the female character who has an ability to influence odds in her favor. Apparently, writers decided that this ability - coupled with her skills in fighting - were enough to defeat Luke Cage in a Contest Of Champions match up. Domino defeats Luke Cage in one book. In another book, Daredevil is able to raise lumps and draw blood from Luke Cage even tho Cage enjoys the advantage of super-human strength and steel-hard skin. In the same Contest Of Champions book in which Domino bested Cage, Captain America was written as once again, beating T'Challa in a one-on-one.

I see the writers measuring a character this way. They add layers to the characters they and the LCB-RD might favor - Wolverine gaining near immortality, advanced knowledge of almost anything and everything, and evolving from a brawling brute to a graceful Samurai warrior. Black Cat's stupid "black cat" powers... These writers also kill, stagnate or remove layers from characters they don't like. The Black Panther has been victimized by this latter practice.

Dr Doom has impressive personal "stats". For the most part, Dr Doom has never failed to live up to those stats. His armor is a battlesuit, bristling with weaponry and giving Victor vonDoom superhuman physical strength. Through his "written history", he has gained greater mystical skills above and beyond what he might have received from his mother. Also in Dr. Doom's "written history" is his having been popped on the nose - through his armor - and knocked on his ass by Doctor Voodoo. Also in his "written history" (or so I've read here and there), is an account of his having killed an adult lion with his bare hands while being jaybird-naked.

Bad writing? Not many in the LCB-RD would seem to care one way or another as long as they might be able to point to Doom's killing of the lion as to why armored or not, his "written history" makes him a match for T'Challa, the Black Panther.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 13, 2013, 09:59:43 am
When you have a character's stats sheet, it describes him at his best.  Stories on the other hand are not about characters at their best.

I would say that Cage vs Domino and Cage vs Daredevil completely disregarded Cage's statistical attributes while boosting those of Domino and Daredevil thereby depicting them as being on Cage's level and if their performance against "Power Man" is to be believed, as being more than his match. In this instance, story performance belies the stats of all characters involved. One can only speculate as to the reasons the writers chose to inflate Domino and Daredevil at the expense of Luke Cage. Fans were likely indifferent to these encounters and didn't express an opinion of the results one way or the other.

Mephisto has tormented the Silver Surfer on more than one occasion, demonstrating superior power everytime. Stats are clear that both Mephisto and the Surfer are far more powerful than the Black Panther. T'Challa decked Mephisto with one punch and ripped his heart out. T'Challa was able to restrain the Surfer with an arm bar hold. These story examples portrayed T'Challa very favorably. These examples - at least the Surfer example - has been roundly dismissed as "bad writing".

Issue #9, The Defenders: Iron Man reaches the Evil Eye before Hawkeye, but not for long. As IM is standing at a window, a "grappling arrow" crashes through a window, snatches the Eye from IM's hand and as if having "a mind of its own", reverses its momentum, retreats through the window it smashed through and delivers the Eye to Hawkeye. IM spots Hawkeye "spoiling for a fight" and rushes to the attack only to be felled by a blast arrow.

Hawkeye tries to press the attack, but IM blasts his second arrow and knocks Hawkeye down with a repulsor ray blast. As IM approaches Hawkeye, the latter removes an arrow from his quiver and smashes it over IM's head. The arrow happened to contain acid. As IM's armor begins to melt, Hawkeye says: "I may be the weakest Defender and you may be the second strongest Avenger, but the person who carries the Eye away is gonna be me!"

IM launches himself into the sky, flying fast enough to evaporate the acid. The strategy proves successful and while still airborne, a now enraged IM reverses course and streaks back toward Hawkeye who was arrogant enough (stupid enough), to stick around rather than getting the Eye back to Dr Strange when he had the chance. Hawkeye fires another arrow at the rapidly descending IM, but has it blasted by a repulsor ray. And now, with all of that momentum behind him, IM lands a punch to the unprotected jaw of Hawkeye. Unbelievably however, Hawkeye is back on his feet from a punch that should have been a sure knockout if not fatal.

IM presses his advantage, forcing Hawkeye back against the wall of a building with his repulsor ray. Hawkeye, having taken and seemingly shrugged off a punch delivered with an iron gauntlet and aided by the momentum of a freefall from no less than 100ft in the air, somehow manages to struggle against the force of the continuous repulsor ray long enough to draw a magnetic arrow from his quiver, fire the arrow at IM's wrist, thus pulling IM's hand and the ray from him. The ray smashes into another building and the building begins to crumble, debris falls endangering innocents. IM has to allow Hawkeye to escape to save the innocents from harm.

Now look at this. Hawkeye was able to resist the force of a continuous repulsor ray that was powerful enough to blast bricks from a building's facade.

If stories aren't about characters at their best, Hawkeye certainly came out of this encounter looking like a world-beater.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 13, 2013, 11:07:08 am
SINJECTION:  I would say that Cage vs Domino and Cage vs Daredevil completely disregarded Cage's statistical attributes while boosting those of Domino and Daredevil thereby depicting them as being on Cage's level and if their performance against "Power Man" is to be believed, as being more than his match. In this instance, story performance belies the stats of all characters involved. One can only speculate as to the reasons the writers chose to inflate Domino and Daredevil at the expense of Luke Cage. Fans were likely indifferent to these encounters and didn't express an opinion of the results one way or the other.

-------------

That is why I say overall history counts not one or couple of stories.  DD beating Cage; you have to compare that to their histories.  Does it fit their histories?  If it doesn't, and there is no x-factor, then it isn't a valid look at the characters' abilities.  It is when the majority of the stories contradict the stats, especially by multiple writers that I say the stats are wrong or hyperbole, or both.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 13, 2013, 12:46:25 pm
SINJECTION:  I would say that Cage vs Domino and Cage vs Daredevil completely disregarded Cage's statistical attributes while boosting those of Domino and Daredevil thereby depicting them as being on Cage's level and if their performance against "Power Man" is to be believed, as being more than his match. In this instance, story performance belies the stats of all characters involved. One can only speculate as to the reasons the writers chose to inflate Domino and Daredevil at the expense of Luke Cage. Fans were likely indifferent to these encounters and didn't express an opinion of the results one way or the other.

-------------

That is why I say overall history counts not one or couple of stories.  DD beating Cage; you have to compare that to their histories.  Does it fit their histories?  If it doesn't, and there is no x-factor, then it isn't a valid look at the characters' abilities.  It is when the majority of the stories contradict the stats, especially by multiple writers that I say the stats are wrong or hyperbole, or both.

 :) Okay
Okay  :)

Remember when you posted the following?

Hmm, do keep in mind this is Marvel; villains are supposed to have the edge on super-heroes.  Manderin is more powerful than Iron Man; Dr, Doom is a match for FF, Abomination is twice as strong as Hulk and so on.  So, who is going to be the more powerul villain for the new BP?

"Villians are supposed to have the edge on super-heroes".

Really... What physical edge did the Jackal enjoy over Spider-Man? For that matter, what physical edge did the Punisher enjoy over Spider-Man?


 "Manderin is more powerful than Iron Man; Dr, Doom is a match for FF, Abomination is twice as strong as Hulk and so on."

Yes, statistical attributes absolutely show that Mandarin should be more powerful than Iron Man. But the "overall written history" shows otherwise. Iron Man has handled Mandarin everytime. The FF has defeated Doom everytime. Although bigger and stronger than the Hulk, "overall written history" shows that whenever the Abomination has fought the Hulk, he has lost.

"So, who is going to be the more powerul villain for the new BP?"

Why does this type of question seem to pop up whenever T'Challa evinces some heightened degree of power or ability?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 13, 2013, 01:13:49 pm
Quote from: sinjection1 link=topic=11042.msg136243#msg136243 date=1368474385


Remember when you posted the following?

[color=blue
Hmm, do keep in mind this is Marvel; villains are supposed to have the edge on super-heroes.  Manderin is more powerful than Iron Man; Dr, Doom is a match for FF, Abomination is twice as strong as Hulk and so on.  So, who is going to be the more powerul villain for the new BP?[/color]

"Villians are supposed to have the edge on super-heroes".

Really... What physical edge did the Jackal enjoy over Spider-Man? For that matter, what physical edge did the Punisher enjoy over Spider-Man?


 "Manderin is more powerful than Iron Man; Dr, Doom is a match for FF, Abomination is twice as strong as Hulk and so on."

Yes, statistical attributes absolutely show that Mandarin should be more powerful than Iron Man. But the "overall written history" shows otherwise. Iron Man has handled Mandarin everytime. The FF has defeated Doom everytime. Although bigger and stronger than the Hulk, "overall written history" shows that whenever the Abomination has fought the Hulk, he has lost.

"So, who is going to be the more powerul villain for the new BP?"

Why does this type of question seem to pop up whenever T'Challa evinces some heightened degree of power or ability?

Well, I always thought Thanos would be a good villain for BP.

First, it is a general principle, not every single time, and applies more to long term arch villain, which Jackel isn't.

Second, villains usually lose, not because the hero is more powerful, but because the villain makes mistakes.  How many times has the good guy won because the arrogantly thought they can't lose, heroes is as good as dead or someone on the other side switches sides?  And how many times has it just been luck? 

Marvel's best is when hero wins because he will not give up; because he sees the moment of opportunity, because of something more interesting than issue after issue of "I am better than everyone else so dance my pets, dance".

Realize this is a generalization, not everyone, every time.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Kimoyo on May 13, 2013, 04:41:54 pm
I only posted the scans of the Hudlin scripted near annihilation of T'challa at the hands of Doom as a counter to the assertions that Hickman could have had T'Challa easily evading Terrax's back swing if he had a greater grasp of the characters strengths, abilities and general skill set.

The fact that T'Challa was more or less the only combatant in that scenario to actually lay a hand on Terrax while the other Illuminati members were being swatted away alongside of him without even getting a chance to lay a figure on Terrax says a lot more about T'Challa's abilities than most are prepared to give Hickman credit for illustrating here.

I know I promised I was done but as you re-introduced my comment, somewhat out of context, in response to someone else, I don't feel I am reneging on my promise by replying to set my comment straight.

While I did say that Hickman could have had T'Challa avoid being swatted by Terrax I neither indicated that it would be easy for him to do so nor that Hickman lacked a sufficient grasp of BP's skillset to have written it thus.
I merely stated that it was a missed opportunity to present T'Challa in an optimally badass way that would not have stretched credibility portraying anything outside the range of his abilities.  I did not say anything negative about Hickman but you reacted as if I attacked his ability as a writer which lead to your unfortunate comparison to Hudlin's work.  Now I'm hearing that a little criticism is not bad when what I wrote was barely that.  I even allowed that the choice may not have been Hickman's as opposed to the artist.  I liked that T'Challa struck the blow that distracted Terrax from IM and set him up for Black Bolt.  Why was it so wrong to have pointed out that Black Panther could have shone even better in that moment without exaggerating his skill and without that comment disparaging the writer.  Bringing Reg's work into it, perhaps unintentionally, did exactly that in an effort to indict my comment.  This was an unnecessary overreaction that for some reason other seem to agree with?   Anyone who cares can go back over the specifics of my argument but all I was saying was what I want to see is Panther being portrayed as a competent superhero and leader in keeping with his abilities.  If I did not feel Hickman had been off to a good start with this I would not have been disappointed to see what was a too familiar result of Panthers team efforts.  I hope this can all be understood at this point.

Peace,

Mont 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 14, 2013, 12:20:55 pm
Well stated Kimoyo, as evidenced by my first post I thought very much the same way. I believe most posters will note that your statements were not a criticism of Hickman's writing. I think the "Chaos Bringer" was impassioned by the war of words he and Flex were engaged in, that his inarguable fact came across more harsh than perhaps intended.
 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 15, 2013, 08:44:42 am
Well, I always thought Thanos would be a good villain for BP.

Seriously... Thanos vs Black Panther as a recurring archfoe ala Red Skull vs Captain America, Joker vs Batman; Bluto vs Popeye, the Sailor Man....Simon Barsinister vs Underdog. I'll bet you didn't type that sentence with a straight face.

Far be it from me - the Black Panther fan that I am - to doubt the capabilities of the character T'Challa, the Black Panther should possess based upon his statistical attributes. Writers of the Black Panther for whatever reason they might have had at the time, have chosen to create an "overall history" for the Panther that would place severe limitations on him that would not exist for Captain Marvel, Silver Surfer, Warlock, Drax the Destroyer or dare I say, Spider-Man.

A perfectly maintained Maserati is an awesome automobile. A Maserati which is never washed, kept in perfect tune mechanically, lacking the fluids necessary for continued top-flight performance will very quickly become a rusted-out jalopy. The Maserati is a real thing. It's ability to continuously operate at peak proficiency is totally dependent upon its user.

The Black Panther is a fictional character. Under the pen of one author, he enjoys a love so genuine and intense with his then-wife Storm, that during their lovemaking, Storm's absolute ecstasy was demonstrated in such ways that anyone within earshot of the booming thunderclap had no doubt of T'Challa's prowess as a lover. Under the pen of a (se)X-Men writer, the Panther is depicted as being the exact opposite, certainly lacking when compared to a nasty, hairy, stinking, 268 and counting year old mutant troll. Under the pen of one author, T'Challa's love for Ororo is so great that he attempts to complete her by reuniting her with the remnant of her U.S. family. Under the pen of a (se)X-Men author, Ororo punches T'Challa in the nose while telling him he is a terrible husband.

The late, great Dwayne McDuffie had the Black Panther apply an armlock on the Silver Surfer which the Surfer could not break. maberry had the Black Panther hiding in a cave while women carried his fight to Dr. Doom. Christopher Priest depicted the Black Panther decking Mephisto with one punch and ripping his heart out. Don McGregor had the Black Panther nearly drowned in a swimming pool by an all-too human, fat mercenary Elmer Gore. Reginald Hudlin depicted the Black Panther throwing Wolverine around like it was cool. A (se)X-Men writer will surely soon pen the humbling of Panther at the hands of Wolverine and his most recent sexual conquest, T'Challa's ex-wife.

Thanos is a cosmically-powered being, possessed of near-infinite superhuman strength and able to hurl cosmic bolts. Erik Killmonger is simply a big, strong bully with a spiked strap. T'Challa's "overall written history" shows that T'Challa is doing good to foil Killmonger's skullduggery while escaping with his life. Thanos as an archfoe for T'Challa.... The Black Panther could barely defeat the Man Ape on his best day...thanks to the writers.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 15, 2013, 02:36:32 pm
Sinjection 1 for the win! 8)


I would also like to add... Aw Frak it that said it all right there!


Carry on...

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 15, 2013, 04:32:17 pm

Seriously... Thanos vs Black Panther as a recurring archfoe ala Red Skull vs Captain America, Joker vs Batman; Bluto vs Popeye, the Sailor Man....Simon Barsinister vs Underdog. I'll bet you didn't type that sentence with a straight face.
----------

Did I say "recurring archfoe"?  Thanos should be no one's recurring foes.  It diminishes him to show up often.   But two are naturals for an encounter.  Before Doom, Wakanda was a source for vibranium, which one would think beings like Thanks would want.  Plus both are major planners and now that BP is King of the Dead, he is a natural rival for Thanos.  Yeah he can't out punch Thanos, but he can outmaneuvered him.

And remember Sin, I am one who never thought Storm and BP worked. 

And really, there is no way that BP's move works against SS.  Stealing his power yes, arm bar no.  Personally I don't buy the logic when the character isn't composed of weak flesh and bone.  But more importantly the guy can turn intangible, so I take it as a slap in Surfer's face.  (I don't mean it insults the character.). He wanted Surfer's attention and he did something insane to get his attention, like a slap to the face.  (That story had problems all around, including the fact that Epoch is not a planet.  Galactus try to eat Epoch is like Galactus trying to eat Odin.  He doesn't do that.  That was Ego; different character.)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 15, 2013, 05:11:05 pm

SINJECTION:  An owner of a Maserati can choose either to put the vehicle through all of its paces or simply have it towed to car show, from car show to another car show, never driving it one day. In this sense, this "real thing's ability" is directly dependent on its user.

Ah I figured out what I failed to explain when I said it is independent of its owner.

What I mean is a car had a physical existence that is independent of any human.  You can take it, measure it, test it.  The owner can not suddenly say, the car is a piece of fruit.  And it becomes an orange.-  He can treat it like dirt and let it rust to death.  But it is still the same metal, wires, tubes, etc.  It has a tangible measureable existence.  A fictional character does not.

If the next writer shows up and Marvel decides, BP should be a South American rabbit in a comedy title; he becomes that, instantly.  The past can be erased.  If they decide the Wakandans are a blue skinned alien race; they become that.  BP has no tangible measurable existence.  It is what DC did in those reboots;  people became young, history erased.  A car can be rebuilt, but that doesn't erase its history or make it "young.". New parts is not rejuvenation.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 06:44:42 am
Sinjection 1 for the win! 8)

The winner, but only until Kip's next volley. You know the HEF brother is always going to return serve.


Seriously... Thanos vs Black Panther as a recurring archfoe ala Red Skull vs Captain America, Joker vs Batman; Bluto vs Popeye, the Sailor Man....Simon Barsinister vs Underdog. I'll bet you didn't type that sentence with a straight face.


Did I say "recurring archfoe"? 

See what I mean, Flex?  ;)

Kip, you didn't say Thanos wouldn't be a recurring archfoe. Professor Moriarty is a recurring archfoe of Sherlock Holmes. Lex Luthor is Superman's arch enemy. Darkseid - a character most might say is a far more substantial threat than is Luthor to Superman and to the world - is a recurring archfoe of Superman. Galactus - despite his promise to the FF that he would remove their earth as an item on his menu - has been a recurring archfoe of that team.

I might have diminished the gravitas of the recurring archfoe by including Popeye's Bluto and Underdog's Simon Barsinister, but it seems to me that only a very poor writer could diminish the presence of Moriarty, Darkseid, or Thanos in any story they might appear, regardless of the frequency of those appearances. I'm not sure I see any reason why Thanos would be interested in Wakanda's Vibranium as he likely has access to far more powerful cosmic substances. The element Vibranium would be limiting and restrictive to a being of Thanos' power and ambition.

Still, Christopher Priest's T'Challa and the Wakanda he created did have plans for dealing with a being as powerful as Galactus. Hudlin's Panther and McDuffie's Panther might have been equally equipped. The Panther, Storm, and Wakanda were written as performing magnificently in turning back the ill-fated Skrull invasion. Still, the "overall written history" of T'Challa, the Black Panther - mired as he is in the designation of "street level" character - renders him woefully incapable of meeting a Thanos-level challenge. While there are intriguing signs, we've yet to really see what the "King Of The Dead" can really do.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 16, 2013, 08:19:08 am
Sinjection 1 for the win! 8)

The winner, but only until Kip's next volley. You know the HEF brother is always going to return serve.


Seriously... Thanos vs Black Panther as a recurring archfoe ala Red Skull vs Captain America, Joker vs Batman; Bluto vs Popeye, the Sailor Man....Simon Barsinister vs Underdog. I'll bet you didn't type that sentence with a straight face.


Did I say "recurring archfoe"? 

See what I mean, Flex?  ;)

Kip, you didn't say Thanos wouldn't be a recurring archfoe. Professor Moriarty is a recurring archfoe of Sherlock Holmes. Lex Luthor is Superman's arch enemy. Darkseid - a character most might say is a far more substantial threat than is Luthor to Superman and to the world - is a recurring archfoe of Superman. Galactus - despite his promise to the FF that he would remove their earth as an item on his menu - has been a recurring archfoe of that team.

I might have diminished the gravitas of the recurring archfoe by including Popeye's Bluto and Underdog's Simon Barsinister, but it seems to me that only a very poor writer could diminish the presence of Moriarty, Darkseid, or Thanos in any story they might appear, regardless of the frequency of those appearances. I'm not sure I see any reason why Thanos would be interested in Wakanda's Vibranium as he likely has access to far more powerful cosmic substances. The element Vibranium would be limiting and restrictive to a being of Thanos' power and ambition.

Still, Christopher Priest's T'Challa and the Wakanda he created did have plans for dealing with a being as powerful as Galactus. Hudlin's Panther and McDuffie's Panther might have been equally equipped. The Panther, Storm, and Wakanda were written as performing magnificently in turning back the ill-fated Skrull invasion. Still, the "overall written history" of T'Challa, the Black Panther - mired as he is in the designation of "street level" character - renders him woefully incapable of meeting a Thanos-level challenge. While there are intriguing signs, we've yet to really see what the "King Of The Dead" can really do.
Brilliant post. I asked Hickman what the KoD was for and he said "everything he's writing" and that it's a big reveal like everything in his books. But I agree with everything you just said,
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 08:19:31 am
And remember Sin, I am one who never thought Storm and BP worked.

True, but your reservations didn't necessarily share the motives and was absent the vitriol of the hostile, hysterically opposed. Be that as it may and notwithstanding the Jerome Dickey less-than-perfect miniseries, the Storm/Black Panther pairing was a natural. The image of the two together was powerful and dazzling and far more attractive than Storm with Forge and certainly more appealing than Storm with Wolverine which is tantamount to pairing a sleek lioness with a dirty, shambling skunk. The Panther/Storm pairing elevated Ororo to the Queen of a powerful nation and potentially, the most significant, highly-visible respresentative of mutant kind. But the seX-Men office, writers, and fans would rather Ororo be less than that, as her current circumstance proves.

Quote
And really, there is no way that BP's move works against SS.  Stealing his power yes, arm bar no.  Personally I don't buy the logic when the character isn't composed of weak flesh and bone.  But more importantly the guy can turn intangible, so I take it as a slap in Surfer's face.  (I don't mean it insults the character.). He wanted Surfer's attention and he did something insane to get his attention, like a slap to the face.  (That story had problems all around, including the fact that Epoch is not a planet.  Galactus try to eat Epoch is like Galactus trying to eat Odin.  He doesn't do that.  That was Ego; different character.)

T'Challa is a warrior supreme, born the son of a warrior supreme, who was himself a son of a long line of warriors supreme. What was Norrin Radd before he was transformed by Galactus into the Silver Surfer? He was a man with an adventurer's heart but who was a product of a planetary race of beings who had become complacent and soft. If T'Challa had fought pre-Surfer Norrin Radd, there could be no doubt as to who the victor would be.

What is the Silver Surfer without his power cosmic? The Surfer without his power cosmic is Norrin Radd. Norrin Radd didn't have the power to turn intangible. Norrin Radd lacked the warrior's skill that T'Challa was essentially born with. So when drained of the power cosmic, the Surfer still looked the part, but he was basically Norrin Radd. The Black Panther vs Norrin Radd = a Black Panther victory each and everytime. The move T'Challa pulled on the Surfer worked as well it should have.

Galactus has consumed energies equivalent to those found in planets. IIRC, Galactus was in a very bad way at the time of that story. The Surfer - once again the Herald of Galactus - was desperate to find sustenance for his master. Epoch fit the bill. As it happened, Galactus survived by feeding on the energies of Epoch which had been imparted to the protector she had chosen. Also, I see where Odin and Galactus did indeed fight. Galactus was not intending to feed on Asgard, but rather an Asgardian artifact which though not being a planet, possessed the energies to satiate his hunger. Evidentally, Galactus has and does feed on other energy sources. His "food" doesn't necessarily have to be a planet.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 09:03:38 am
Brilliant post. I asked Hickman what the KoD was for and he said "everything he's writing" and that it's a big reveal like everything in his books. But I agree with everything you just said,

From what little I've seen through scans of New Avengers, my general impressions have been favorable. I love the art and Hickman writes a cool, commanding, dangerous T'Challa. I am ever more strongly considering making New Avengers #7 the first purchase I have made in over two years.

I can relate to Kimoyo's wariness. I fully understand and am sympathetic to Flex's disdain and distrust of Marvel Comics' writers. You are more knowledgeable of Hickman and his writing style than I'll ever be, Seven. You explained Hickman's practice of a slow, steady story-telling pace to the climax. Salustrade suggested Panther fans remain patient and let the story be told.

I am willing to give Hickman the benefit of the doubt in anticipation of the type of "big reveal" the Panther has deserved and has been deprived of for far too long.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 09:30:38 am

SINJECTION:  An owner of a Maserati can choose either to put the vehicle through all of its paces or simply have it towed to car show, from car show to another car show, never driving it one day. In this sense, this "real thing's ability" is directly dependent on its user.

Ah I figured out what I failed to explain when I said it is independent of its owner.

What I mean is a car had a physical existence that is independent of any human.

A human being designs the concept of the car and through a series of developmental processes, brings the car into physical existence. In this sense, the car's physical existence is directly dependent on human endeavor.

Human beings designed the concept of T'Challa, the Black Panther. Through a series of developmental processes, Jack Kirby and Stan Lee brought the Black Panther into fictional existence. The Panther's fictional existence is directly dependent upon those who write and illustrate the stories he's featured in. As well we all know, this has not always been a good thing.

The Black Panther does have a "tangible history". That "tangible history" has sometimes been a tangled, convulted - cue the Temptations - "Ball of Confusion". T'Challa has not suffered a transmogrification the like of what you've mentioned. As a character however, the Black Panther has suffered almost from the outset. It was you, Kip, who revealed to me the true reason why the Panther had to wear a full mask. It is that type of fan disdain and intolerance the editors and writers have considered which has to a great degree, hampered the Panther and prevented him from becoming the sensational character he deserves to be.

Remember Frank Miller's Daredevil. Was there ever a hotter commodity than was Daredevil at that time? Elektra, Stick, the Hand, Kingpin. The gritty artwork and innovative graphic storytelling device. Daredevil was smokin!!!  There is no real reason why the Black Panther shouldn't have had that level of success. Or maybe, there is a real reason....that reason being a lack of knowledge of Marvel's professionals and a lack of interest on the part of Marvel's professionals to invest the type of time and effort into the Black Panther to elevate his status. Also, there might be a true disinterest among a segment of Marvel's fanbase to see the Black Panther ever become as significant as he could be.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 10:16:35 am

SINJECTION:  An owner of a Maserati can choose either to put the vehicle through all of its paces or simply have it towed to car show, from car show to another car show, never driving it one day. In this sense, this "real thing's ability" is directly dependent on its user.

Ah I figured out what I failed to explain when I said it is independent of its owner.

What I mean is a car had a physical existence that is independent of any human.  You can take it, measure it, test it. The owner can not suddenly say, the car is a piece of fruit.  And it becomes an orange.-  He can treat it like dirt and let it rust to death.  But it is still the same metal, wires, tubes, etc.  It has a tangible measureable existence.  A fictional character does not.

The Black Panther had/has a physical, fictional existence independent of the consumer of the Marvel Comics product featuring his likeness. The consumer can buy the book. He or she can treat the book like garbage. They can line the bottom of their birdcages with the book or take it with them into the toilet, not to read it while sitting the throne, but to use the book as toilet tissue when their reign has ended. The book itself is tangible. And while a user can alter the book, even destroy the book, the Black Panther - being fictional - still maintains a tangible, measurable existence beyond that which can be affected by the consumer.

Just as a car's value and performance can be drastically affected positively or negatively by its owner, the Black Panther's value as a character, his performance as a character can be negatively affected by editorial/writer's decisions usually dictated by fan interest or disinterest. A writer might not decide the Panther would be more successful if he were an orange or a comical, blue South American rabbit. They can dick around with his past, present, and future.

If fans become irritated by reading one writer's take on Wakanda: "Unfettered by the yoke of colonization, the African warrior nation of Wakanda flourished and became a high-tech, resource-rich, ecologically-sound paradise - one that makes the rest of the world seem primitive in comparison. Ruling over this kindom are the BLACK PANTHER and his queen, STORM."

Those fans can spread a poisonous environment through vicious comments and complaint which can reach the ears of editors so that they can find another writer who would write his take on Wakanda: "Dr Doom has done the impossible: He has conquered the warrior nation of Wakanda, home of the Black Panther and the only source of the rarest of all metals: Vibranium. Working behind the scenes, Doom has funded a dissident group, the Desturi, and supported them in a coup to take control of Wakanda."

You see how that works, Kip? The Black Panther and Wakanda were written as being brilliant, glittering, unconquerable and ruled by a powerful warrior king and a beautiful, powerful, warrior queen by one writer. This is a fact in the "overall written history" of the Black Panther.

But just as a jealous individual could steal an owner's car and total it, transforming it from its former state of high-performance machine to scrap metal, jealous fans can influence gutless editors into allowing writers to allow a previously never-conquered nation into being conquered from within through a poison from without. A nation having contingency plans to thwart the plans of Galactus falling prey to criminals from within and a terrestrial alien threat. The Panther is reduced to a broken shell of himself, his queen nothing more than an all-too willing slut for hairy, stinking, centuries-old troll.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 16, 2013, 01:29:11 pm

SINJECTION:  An owner of a Maserati can choose either to put the vehicle through all of its paces or simply have it towed to car show, from car show to another car show, never driving it one day. In this sense, this "real thing's ability" is directly dependent on its user.

Ah I figured out what I failed to explain when I said it is independent of its owner.

What I mean is a car had a physical existence that is independent of any human.  You can take it, measure it, test it. The owner can not suddenly say, the car is a piece of fruit.  And it becomes an orange.-  He can treat it like dirt and let it rust to death.  But it is still the same metal, wires, tubes, etc.  It has a tangible measureable existence.  A fictional character does not.


The Black Panther had/has a physical, fictional existence independent of the consumer of the Marvel Comics product featuring his likeness. The consumer can buy the book. He or she can treat the book like garbage. They can line the bottom of their birdcages with the book or take it with them into the toilet, not to read it while sitting the throne, but to use the book as toilet tissue when their reign has ended. The book itself is tangible. And while a user can alter the book, even destroy the book, the Black Panther - being fictional - still maintains a tangible, measurable existence beyond that which can be affected by the consumer.

Just as a car's value and performance can be drastically affected positively or negatively by its owner, the Black Panther's value as a character, his performance as a character can be negatively affected by editorial/writer's decisions usually dictated by fan interest or disinterest. A writer might not decide the Panther would be more successful if he were an orange or a comical, blue South American rabbit. They can dick around with his past, present, and future.

If fans become irritated by reading one writer's take on Wakanda: "Unfettered by the yoke of colonization, the African warrior nation of Wakanda flourished and became a high-tech, resource-rich, ecologically-sound paradise - one that makes the rest of the world seem primitive in comparison. Ruling over this kindom are the BLACK PANTHER and his queen, STORM."

Those fans can spread a poisonous environment through vicious comments and complaint which can reach the ears of editors so that they can find another writer who would write his take on Wakanda: "Dr Doom has done the impossible: He has conquered the warrior nation of Wakanda, home of the Black Panther and the only source of the rarest of all metals: Vibranium. Working behind the scenes, Doom has funded a dissident group, the Desturi, and supported them in a coup to take control of Wakanda."

You see how that works, Kip? The Black Panther and Wakanda were written as being brilliant, glittering, unconquerable and ruled by a powerful warrior king and a beautiful, powerful, warrior queen by one writer. This is a fact in the "overall written history" of the Black Panther.

But just as a jealous individual could steal an owner's car and total it, transforming it from its former state of high-performance machine to scrap metal, jealous fans can influence gutless editors into allowing writers to allow a previously never-conquered nation into being conquered from within through a poison from without. A nation having contingency plans to thwart the plans of Galactus falling prey to criminals from within and a terrestrial alien threat. The Panther is reduced to a broken shell of himself, his queen nothing more than an all-too willing slut for hairy, stinking, centuries-old troll.


Wolverine #8
(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg)
It begins!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 16, 2013, 01:33:31 pm
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

(http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg)

Whoa, just as I was preparing to post this. Salustrade beat me to it by mere minutes. Cool.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 16, 2013, 01:57:56 pm
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])

Whoa, just as I was preparing to post this Salustrade beat me to it by mere minutes. Cool.


And some wonder why I for one, don't want Storm anywhere near T'Challa or Wakanda. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 16, 2013, 03:32:14 pm
Wolverine #8
([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])
It begins!


The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])

Whoa, just as I was preparing to post this Salustrade beat me to it by mere minutes. Cool.


Ture, Salustrade: Great Minds Thinking Alike!

I enjoyed Captain Britain and MI13. The artwork and Blade's presence on the team were the main reasons I was into the title. I do remember appreciating the way Cornell wrote the sequence between Dane Whitman (Black Knight), and then-Queen Ororo when he traveled to Wakanda to request the return of the Ebony Blade. Ororo was depicted as being gracious, gorgeous and exceedingly regal.

"The battle for the soul of Storm..." After having been subjected to the ravages of the seX-Men writers one might wonder if there is anything redeemable in that soul worth the saving.

And some wonder why I for one, don't want Storm anywhere near T'Challa or Wakanda. :smh:


When Storm was the regal queen of Wakanda, the seX-Men writers and fans couldn't wait to get her out of Wakanda and away from T'Challa. Now having had their desire fulfilled, it seems they want nothing more than to nurture what they perceive as a contentious relationship between the former spouses. The T'Challa who is leading the New Avengers has his plate full and couldn't be less concerned about his ex-wife and her paramour's troubles.

The seX-Men continue to labor under the delusion that they are still relevant. Having run out of ideas which once titillated their fans, they seem to have discovered that they now have to return to telling superhero stories and have forgotten how to do so.

Even a seX-Men fan can tire of stories featuring black Ororo being sexed by a wooly, repugnant runt, or black Angel Salvadore accepting a dare to kiss a buzzard-faced fugly mutant, discovering she loves him after doing so, having drunken sex with that fugly mutant and becoming pregnant...or, they might even have grown tired of stories of lovely black Cecelia Reyes kissing Hank McCoy's animal mouth.

....or not. At any rate, I'm hoping T'Challa puts a whuppin on weasel man and keeps his right high and in position to protect his nose from the punches sure to be thrown his way by his erstwhile queen.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 16, 2013, 05:42:59 pm
Under Priest, in BP#27, Ross stated that the N'Yami class mother ship could operate as readily in outer space as on the ocean floor. Unfortunately we did not get the opportunity to witness such.

I think SI is referencing the moon trip. Hudlin is the only writer to actually demonstrate Wakanda and by extension the Black Panther as having a fully functional space program.

Under Hickman Tchalla has stated they have the preeminent space program on the planet.Hickman may soon demonstrate the capacity of such a program.

I am referencing the moon trip first, the Frogs trippin next. Yes, Priest foreshadowed all of this with the N'yami [ name of his deceased mother ] Class battleships, but...the first time we actually saw TChalla on his own sail into space of his own volition and be formidable at all points was with RH.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 16, 2013, 06:00:50 pm
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])

Whoa, just as I was preparing to post this Salustrade beat me to it by mere minutes. Cool.


And some wonder why I for one, don't want Storm anywhere near T'Challa or Wakanda. :smh:


TCHALLA will get screwed at every turn by the X-dweebs unless protected by Editorial.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 17, 2013, 12:05:02 am
Quote
T'Challa, the Black Panther - mired as he is in the designation of "street level" character - renders him woefully incapable of meeting a Thanos-level challenge.

True indeed Sinjection1. This is why we must approach the Black Panther as well as any other super hero with a reasonable degree of intellect and logic. Unquestioningly Lee, Priest and Hudlin, created, perfected and added to the intelligence, powers, resources, prowess and attitude of the Black Panther. The querry into why Thomas, Englehart and especially McGregor chose to ignore some of the Black Panther's most promising assets and attributes is a question only they can answer.

Remember Marvel Two in One Annual with Spider-man and the ever lovin' blue eyed Thing. Peter had to rise to the challenge by conquering his fear of Thanos and was thus the primary contributor to Thanos' defeat. Spidey is a street level hero and such was made mention of in the actual tale.  Batman is street level and that has not hampered him in the least. Tchalla written  to his fullest potential (and the same should be said for his personal rogues gallery) would find fulfillment on the streets of New York, in the ocean depths of Atlantis, the city of Wakanda  and the alien worlds of the Skrull. He is that versatile. A good writer fully immersed in the" Panther Effect" would have little difficulty penning a story with the Kingpin, Mandarin, Apocalypse, or even the Mad Titan himself. As my wife would say "You just have to know your man."

Hickman stands on the precipice of presenting what could be the definitive interpretation of both the comic book and the cinematic representation of the Black Panther. The King of the Dead could be used to uniquely qualify and distinguish the the "Panther Effect" with such finality that only its iteration would be possible.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Blanks on May 17, 2013, 10:48:09 am
I kinda wish T'Challa was rocking those knuckle-claws that he wore on the "Most Dangerous Man Alive" run while fighting Wolvie in the pic above.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 17, 2013, 06:27:43 pm
Hickman stands on the precipice of presenting what could be the definitive interpretation of both the comic book and the cinematic representation of the Black Panther. The King of the Dead could be used to uniquely qualify and distinguish the the "Panther Effect" with such finality that only its iteration would be possible.

Hickman could do for the Black Panther what David Goyer did for Blade.

Marvel has often and IMO notoriously, created black superheroes "under powered". Correct me if I'm mistaken, Ture, but it seems to me that before Wein and Cockrum created Storm, Luke Cage was Marvel's most powerful black superhero. His steel-hard skin and super strength enabled him to tussle with Spider-Man and the Fantastic 4. Cage even pounded Doom and gained a measure of respect from the tyrant when he prevented his defeat at the hands of an alien adversary. Cage was "street level", however. He was not in the same class as Thor, Iron Man, or Spider-Man.

Blade inherited certain "powers" resulting from the vampire bite that killed his mother. Peter Parker gets bitten by a radioactive spider and gains the proportionate strength of a spider, uncanny ability, the ability to climb walls and cling to sheer perpendicular surfaces. Hector Ayala finds the amulets once worn by the Sons Of The Tiger and gains super strength and extraordinary martial arts skills.

Marv Wolfman's Blade - Eric Brooks - wasn't as fortunate in the super powers lottery. The only abilities he gained were an immunity to vampire bites and vampire hypnosis. The bug-eyed glasses he used to wear enabled him to discern between vampires and humans. David Goyer's "dhampir Blade" compelled Marvel to follow suit, having Blade gain superpowers as a result of being bitten by Morbius.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 17, 2013, 08:26:51 pm
Brother Voodoo was probably most powerful pre-Storm character.  Black Goliath came out about the same time as her.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 18, 2013, 01:04:44 am
Brilliant post. I asked Hickman what the KoD was for and he said "everything he's writing" and that it's a big reveal like everything in his books. But I agree with everything you just said,

From what little I've seen through scans of New Avengers, my general impressions have been favorable. I love the art and Hickman writes a cool, commanding, dangerous T'Challa. I am ever more strongly considering making New Avengers #7 the first purchase I have made in over two years.

I can relate to Kimoyo's wariness. I fully understand and am sympathetic to Flex's disdain and distrust of Marvel Comics' writers. You are more knowledgeable of Hickman and his writing style than I'll ever be, Seven. You explained Hickman's practice of a slow, steady story-telling pace to the climax. Salustrade suggested Panther fans remain patient and let the story be told.

I am willing to give Hickman the benefit of the doubt in anticipation of the type of "big reveal" the Panther has deserved and has been deprived of for far too long.

Brotha Sinjection1, why wait for New Avengers #7 to check out what Hickman is doing?

Start from the very 1st issue and you'll understand why I'm endorsing his take on, and handling of T'Challa's character thus far.

Unlike most other writers who've taken on BP related writing assignments, (excluding Reginald Hudlin & Dwayne McDuffie) Jonathan Hickman expressley requested this writing gig and has stated quite clearly that he's always felt that T'Challa and Wakanda should always have been central to the 616 MU metaplot.

Hickman truly respects T'Challa as a character and it shows in his work.

As you know, I usually stay apprehensive when certain writers make big promises only to deliver zero positive returns but with Hickman, I have no reservations whatsoever especially as T'Challa/Wakanda haters (and other misguided and shortsighted individuals) are already casting shade on Hickman's work just because he has T'Challa and Wakanda front and centre.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 18, 2013, 02:28:48 am
Further more, There are two diametrically opposed schools of thought in evidence where the subject of Storm and the Black Panther are concerned and these are in turn, filtered through whichever prism the opposed parties choose to utilize.

Speaking for myself as a former fan of the X-Men, I can say with full confidence, that I have zero interest in any X-titles currently being published by Marvel.

I didn't come lightly to this decision over night but as a direct result of the increasingly separatist tinged themes that became prevalent within the X-family of books over a lenghty period of time.

The creation of Scott Summers initial pre-emptive strike death squad X-Force was the tip of the ice berg followed by the X-offices seemingly endless side swipes at the Ororo/T'Challa marriage, the death of Kurt Wagner, all of the events leading up to, during and after AvX and the eventual murder of Professor Charles Xavier at the hands of Scott Summers at the close of AvX.

All of the above only seerved as reinforcers to my decision to move away from all things X-related but unfortunately, moving away from the titles doesn't always ensure that one will remin immune to the machinations of some X-writers who remain hellbent on pushing their negative agenda ever outwards towards the rest of the published 616 MU and therin lies a rather pernicious problem.

The derailment of character advancement.

Jonathan Hickman is currently crafting what amounts to a long overdue return to form for T'Challa as a character and Wakanda as an intellectual concept firmly entrenched smack dab in the middle of the 616 MU as powerful agents of influence and change.

To do this, he's introduced T'Challa as the central figure around which the Illuminati are reformed within the pages of New Avengers which in turn raises T'Challa's profile heading on into the Infinity event.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/346teh2.jpg)
(http://i42.tinypic.com/33l330h.jpg)

And Hickman is achieving all of this without having to reference any of the soap opera drama nonsense that characterised T'Challa and Ororo's "involvement" in the AvX event.

Hickman has wisely chosen to move T'Challa away from that messy event on a positive trajectory that leads him straight into Infinity which by all accounts will truly be an event to look forward to and one where the full range of T'Challa's new abilities as King Of The Dead will be given free reign to be showcased but what's going on on the X-side of things?

(http://i35.tinypic.com/345oay0.jpg)

^^^ Rubbish like this and the soon to be released Cornell scripted encounter between Wolverine and T'Challa in Wolverine #8.

For some unknown reason, X-writers seem incapable of crafting anything credible for Ororo (the character they and their fans claimed was being held back by being married to T'Challa) without hitching their decrept wagon to Hickman's revitalized and repurposed T'Challa.

Why is that?

And even more importantly, why are Marvel editorial endorsing what really amounts to divisive writing practices that vicariously diminish T'Challa's forward progression as a character under Hickman's pen?

To hear most of Ororo's fans talk, you'd get the impression that Black Panther enthusiasts are a collective of misgynists with chips on their collective shoulders but the fact remains that with the exception of one or two posting in this thread, practically 98% percent of us have zero interest in seeing Ororo back with T'Challa or any X-related plots hitched to the BP mythos moving forward.

Maybe it's time for these individuals to start questioning why some X-writers only seem comfortable writing Ororo as a background character with close to zero authority or meaningful impact on any of the X-teams she's currently a part of rather than making noise about BP enthusiasts supposedly rubbishing her character.

My only message to BP enthusiasts posting in this thread is to just maintain your dignity moving forward and refrain from getting into pointless slanging matches that go nowhere positive.

We're better than that and really don't have to resort to the kind of trollish behaviour avidly supported and encouraged by certain individuals with preset agendas currently posting in this thread.

I'm all about appreciating where Jonathan Hickman is taking T'Challa now and really have no time to waste debating about a recent past best left mouldering on the scrap heap of institutionally mandated trolling on the part of so-called professional writers.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 18, 2013, 09:13:22 am
Brother Voodoo was probably most powerful pre-Storm character.  Black Goliath came out about the same time as her.

You're right. Thanks, Kip. Brother Voodoo was a dynamic and powerful character. Unfortunately, we must say "was" as he too is numbered among those intriguing black male characters created by Marvel Comics Group now dead.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 18, 2013, 09:59:27 am
Brotha Sinjection1, why wait for New Avengers #7 to check out what Hickman is doing?

Start from the very 1st issue and you'll understand why I'm endorsing his take on, and handling of T'Challa's character thus far.

Unlike most other writers who've taken on BP related writing assignments, (excluding Reginald Hudlin & Dwayne McDuffie) Jonathan Hickman expressley requested this writing gig and has stated quite clearly that he's always felt that T'Challa and Wakanda should always have been central to the 616 MU metaplot.

Hickman truly respects T'Challa as a character and it shows in his work.

As you know, I usually stay apprehensive when certain writers make big promises only to deliver zero positive returns but with Hickman, I have no reservations whatsoever especially as T'Challa/Wakanda haters (and other misguided and shortsighted individuals) are already casting shade on Hickman's work just because he has T'Challa and Wakanda front and centre.

Brother, I have every confidence in the strength of your conviction that Hickman is committed to reconstituting the Black Panther to that character Kirby and Lee envisioned and McGregor, Priest, and Hudlin worked so hard to realize.

So far, it seems to me that Marvel is sitting back, and actually allowing Hickman a free hand toward (re)building T'Challa's prestige by showing him in an undisputed leadership position of the formidable Illuminati and according a unique respect from the Black Swan. I wouldn't have expected this of Marvel given the recent history of its shabby treatment of black male characters.

I am cautiously optimistic. This is why I am waiting until New Avengers #7. I suppose I want to know beforehand how T'Challa's encounter with Namor plays out before I make the purchase. I purchased every issue of maberry's doomwar anticipating what I expected would be T'Challa's punishing retribution and satisfying victory over Dr. Doom. I consider those purchases as throwing good money after bad. I want to see Namor's blood shed or something equally pleasant - it needn't be his death, just a very severe and painful beating recognized by every character and fan of Marvel comics - before I can commit to purchasing the book.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 18, 2013, 10:16:14 am
Brotha Sinjection1, why wait for New Avengers #7 to check out what Hickman is doing?

Start from the very 1st issue and you'll understand why I'm endorsing his take on, and handling of T'Challa's character thus far.

Unlike most other writers who've taken on BP related writing assignments, (excluding Reginald Hudlin & Dwayne McDuffie) Jonathan Hickman expressley requested this writing gig and has stated quite clearly that he's always felt that T'Challa and Wakanda should always have been central to the 616 MU metaplot.

Hickman truly respects T'Challa as a character and it shows in his work.

As you know, I usually stay apprehensive when certain writers make big promises only to deliver zero positive returns but with Hickman, I have no reservations whatsoever especially as T'Challa/Wakanda haters (and other misguided and shortsighted individuals) are already casting shade on Hickman's work just because he has T'Challa and Wakanda front and centre.

Brother, I have every confidence in the strength of your conviction that Hickman is committed to reconstituting the Black Panther to that character Kirby and Lee envisioned and McGregor, Priest, and Hudlin worked so hard to realize.

So far, it seems to me that Marvel is sitting back, and actually allowing Hickman a free hand toward (re)building T'Challa's prestige by showing him in an undisputed leadership position of the formidable Illuminati and according a unique respect from the Black Swan. I wouldn't have expected this of Marvel given the recent history of its shabby treatment of black male characters.

I am cautiously optimistic. This is why I am waiting until New Avengers #7. I suppose I want to know beforehand how T'Challa's encounter with Namor plays out before I make the purchase. I purchased every issue of maberry's doomwar anticipating what I expected would be T'Challa's punishing retribution and satisfying victory over Dr. Doom. I consider those purchases as throwing good money after bad. I want to see Namor's blood shed or something equally pleasant - it needn't be his death, just a very severe and painful beating recognized by every character and fan of Marvel comics - before I can commit to purchasing the book.

That is fair enough my good friend.

I had no idea that you'd suffered through the entirety of Doomwar as well.

Your caution is more than understandable. :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 18, 2013, 12:41:55 pm
OMG you guys conversations are like being trapped in the teacher's lounge:)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 18, 2013, 12:42:39 pm
As might have been the case for most of us, comicbooks was a pleasant diversion from the mundane...escapism. Over time, the subject matter of the books became as complex and sophisticated as the processes used to produce them. Black characters appeared bringing with them those issues particular to the global black community.

A certain segment of the LCB-RD resented the introduction of such subject matter into the stories. They didn't want to "be preached at". Oh, it was perfectly fine when the subject of racism was introduced with "pink-skinned" Mar-Vell and "pink-skinned" Namor featured in stories prevailing over the skin color-based oppression of their blue-skinned compatriots. Those type stories hit too close to home - or perhaps directly into their living rooms - when instead of Namor ruling over blue skins, it was a black man wearing a sleek black costume and called the Black Panther trading blows with the Sons Of The Serpent.

 
Further more, There are two diametrically opposed schools of thought in evidence where the subject of Storm and the Black Panther are concerned and these are in turn, filtered through whichever prism the opposed parties choose to utilize.

Speaking for myself as a former fan of the X-Men, I can say with full confidence, that I have zero interest in any X-titles currently being published by Marvel.

I didn't come lightly to this decision over night but as a direct result of the increasingly separatist tinged themes that became prevalent within the X-family of books over a lenghty period of time.

The creation of Scott Summers initial pre-emptive strike death squad X-Force was the tip of the ice berg followed by the X-offices seemingly endless side swipes at the Ororo/T'Challa marriage, the death of Kurt Wagner, all of the events leading up to, during and after AvX and the eventual murder of Professor Charles Xavier at the hands of Scott Summers at the close of AvX.

All of the above only seerved as reinforcers to my decision to move away from all things X-related but unfortunately, moving away from the titles doesn't always ensure that one will remin immune to the machinations of some X-writers who remain hellbent on pushing their negative agenda ever outwards towards the rest of the published 616 MU and therin lies a rather pernicious problem.

The derailment of character advancement.

I wouldn't think there are many of we Marvel Comics fans who were not X-Men fans at one time or another. I still believe the original 5 with Prof X guiding them, was arguably the concept at its finest. The "new" X-Men, no longer wearing the traditional yellow and blue "school uniform", were dazzling and visually exciting. John Proudstar died and from there began the decline: it was slow at first, but picked up speed with the death of Jean Grey. It was during that time with the appearance of the Hellfire Club, the storytelling acquired the salacious quality that would usher into existence, the present day seX-Men.

The parallels between Prof X/Magneto and Martin Luther King, Jr/Malcolm X were obvious. Today's seX-Men fans ignore this parallel: some deny its existence altogether. IMHO, many of today's seX-Men fans prefer to see the concept as an allegorical representation of the LGBT community. Many members of the LGBT perceive the heterosexual black community as being hostile to homosexual identity and aspirations. Many gays for example, bristle at the refusal of many black heterosexuals to recognize a connection between LGBT aspirations and the "Black Struggle". While stories recognizing LGBT interests have enjoyed a growing exposure, the black male mutant has been disgraced - "Slick" vs Quentin Quire, practically denuded of any sexual aspect - aside from Bishop/Deathbird and Prodigy/Surge, I can't think of any examples of a healthy intimate relationship existing between a black male mutant and mutant female. Black male mutants have been depowered and eventually become deceased.

seX-Men hostility toward Wakanda was in evidence when a story featuring Nezhno's return to that nation was written. Clearly and unequivocally, writers established that Nezhno was not "pure" Wakandan - his father being Russian - and that he was persona non grata in Wakanda. His own mother was brutally hateful when she rejected him. When Storm was elevated to the glittering queen of Wakanda, it was as if the seX-Men world descended into paroxysms of anger, envy, and resentment. Prof X said that because of her marriage to T'Challa, she had become the most important mutant on the planet. The seX-Men fan would rather see Ororo as the mohawk-coiffed, sexual plaything of Wolverine and Yukio.

I was of the opinion and expressed it long ago that the seX-Men were fresh out of entertaining ideas and could only hold on to their fanbase by shocking and titillating them with some sexually related nonsense. Mastermind's (not to be confused with my Dear HEF Brother), psychic seduction of Jean Grey recycled as Scott Summer's psychic seduction by the White Queen for example. Boring. The seX-Men writers have told every story that could be told and now, relying on their fanbase's hostility for the Panther, have set their sights on reinvigorating their sagging product by attacking the up and coming T'Challa.

They've ruined Storm and won't be happy unless they can do the same to the Black Panther.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 18, 2013, 12:43:54 pm
OMG you guys conversations are like being trapped in the teacher's lounge:)

Good. I hope you're learning something useful  ;D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 18, 2013, 04:49:59 pm
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])

Whoa, just as I was preparing to post this. Salustrade beat me to it by mere minutes. Cool.



Why is 10-Stacks(BP) wasting his time fighting Logan? New powers? Where? Wakanda is an advanced technological society but the use of said techno is hardly ever represented.
As a strategist he should be able to toy with Logan as he pleases. It looks good but it undermines BP’s capabilities.

Omega Sentinel used techno… Supa-Cat goes fist-to-cuffs?
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/12397/1984080-feat.png)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 18, 2013, 05:11:33 pm
Exactly!  The Black Panther especially as depicted by Priest should have little trouble defeating Wolverine if he so chose to. The Black Panther should be faster and stronger. Intelligence and tactics go without saying.  And as far as that adamantium thing goes... wait for it...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/16715/2989087-5368750598-85998.png)

BAM!!!

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/16715/2989088-6134856853-85998.png)

Claw against claw Wolverine is outnumbered and outclassed.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 18, 2013, 05:48:44 pm
Hahahahaha… excellent!   
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 18, 2013, 08:51:28 pm
Had Ryan Sook sketch this for me at a con today( and he hooked it up for free )

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/2013-05-18-181304_zps9c643946.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 18, 2013, 10:43:19 pm
Now that's hot, Genki Sudo. Nothing like original art. That is the one aspect my Black Panther collection is deficient in, I most certainly need to improve that situation.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 19, 2013, 01:39:06 am
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])


If T'Choro is such a bad thing, why does Marvel keep alluding to it? Why do they keep using it to sell books?

You know what? I think Marvel knows that they f*cked up, and that's why they keep this door open. Although I AM getting really sick of the whole T'Challa/Wolverine/Storm love triangle, largely because Marvel has no more intentions of putting Storm with Wolverine than they do giving a proud black man a stable, happy marriage to a proud black woman.

(And where the hell are Storm's pants?)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 19, 2013, 04:45:37 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.

I do agree that Marvel does seem to be returning to the T'Challa-Storm divorce, though from a character standpoint I can see how that makes sense. I mean a divorce is a big change in a person's life so it would take time for them to process that. That being said, I hope these run ins are not being used solely for the purpose of running down T'Challa to make Wolverine look better or to rub Wolverine's shagging of Storm in Panther's face. Also I hope that the divorce thing isn't going to be used as a crutch because the writers have nothing else to do or say about Storm and just rely on her relationships with men (T'Challa or Logan) to define her.

I still think the divorce was a mistake. I mean, despite T'Challa's new role in New Avengers I think having a Panther-Storm led Uncanny Avengers team would've been sweet.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Battle on May 19, 2013, 04:52:01 am
OMG you guys conversations are like being trapped in the teacher's lounge:)




(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g22/hollyeclark1/f4363e34.gif)(http://www.hudlinentertainment.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Battle on May 19, 2013, 05:19:54 am
Had Ryan Sook sketch this for me at a con today( and he hooked it up for free )

([url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/2013-05-18-181304_zps9c643946.jpg[/url])








Nice! :)


That's a keeper!    8)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 19, 2013, 05:40:27 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.


Well, she might as well not be wearing anything at all since she's supposed to be some sort f exotic primal woman fetish figure within the X-universe.

I do agree that Marvel does seem to be returning to the T'Challa-Storm divorce, though from a character standpoint I can see how that makes sense.


Character standpoint for whom?

T'Challa's character trajectory is heading on into the Infinity event via the avenue of Hickman's take on the New Avengers.

Do you see any similarly themed forward momentum for Ororo within any of the X-books?

I think we both know the answer to that question.

Ororo's character has been devolved back to the simplistic characterization that Claremont gave her where her ethnicity was never explored or seen as anything important even though she was surrounded by X-Men who all seemed to have distinctive ethnicities themselves. (Piotr rasputin, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pride and Banshee just to name a few)


I mean a divorce is a big change in a person's life so it would take time for them to process that. That being said, I hope these run ins are not being used solely for the purpose of running down T'Challa to make Wolverine look better or to rub Wolverine's shagging of Storm in Panther's face.


To be frank, Wolverine really isn't the problem here.

It's the X-writers themselves living vicariously through his character who are the problem.

Their disdain for African/African-American and Carribean men is well illustrated within the books they'e been writing over the last few years where characters of this type all seem to get depowerd, maimed and outright killed on the writers whim whilst other caucasian characters are allowed to flourish regardless of how useless they are to the plot.

Also I hope that the divorce thing isn't going to be used as a crutch because the writers have nothing else to do or say about Storm and just rely on her relationships with men (T'Challa or Logan) to define her.


The writers are writing from a place of creative vacuum and as such, their work only appeals to a fanbase that's equally morally bankrupt and facetiously arrogant to boot.

I still think the marriage was a mistake.


Why?

Reginald Hudlin merely followed things through to their logical conclusion by crafting a marriage which actually fell in line wit Professor Charles Xavier's primary mission in life to foster better relations between all strands of humanity.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/wlummb.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/293hjjb.jpg)

Mr Hudlin actually did a better job than any of the X-writers in this regard by merely doing what they should have been doing all along rather than indulging in the same tired "woe is me" crap they've been using the X-titles as a springboard to launch stupidly divisive stories from.

In all the years since Ororo's creation by Claremont, did any of the X-writers (including Claremont himself) do anything to explore Ororo's true familial origins?

No they didn't, but see how easily Mr Hudlin managed to achieve what the much vaunted (in their own minds) X-writers never bothered to do...

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2njahhe.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2ezibv4.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/30b1yxv.jpg)

In just one issue, Reginald Hudlin managed to reunite Ororo with the African-american relatives none of the X-writers could be bothered to allude to let alone write about but all they could do was snipe from the side and feed their trollish fanbase with rubbish like this...

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1zdu8wk.jpg)

Ororo's marriage to T'Challa elevated her to a character of real political gravitas as a Head of State which in turn, made her the most powerful mutant on 616 MU just off of that fact but of course, the X-Writers needed to have her coralled so they could push their Scott Summers "God Messiah of the Mutants" agenda.

We will never see this Ororo ever again.

Undeniably black and proud as evidenced below...

(http://i47.tinypic.com/10e54rb.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/jgt9g3.jpg)

And this is solely down to the fact that they have their own set agenda which is diametrically opposed to anything that we would consider as being appropriate.

They're not invested in Black-on-Black love but have no problem in pushing Black-on-Black violence...

(http://i43.tinypic.com/esrggo.jpg)

and the feigned ignorance that comes along when one is caught out distorting the truth.

(http://i35.tinypic.com/345oay0.jpg)

I mean, despite T'Challa's new role in New Avengers I think having a Panther-Storm led Uncanny Avengers team would've been sweet.


Hudlin set things up nicely for this self same scenario to have been feasible but of course Marvel weren't invested enough in recognising his genius masterstroke move in marrying the two character in the first place let alone making them fromnt and centre to the 616 MU as they should have been right from jump.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 19, 2013, 06:37:19 am
"T'Choro" doesn't sell books; "T'Chumped" might.

The intent of this part of Wolverine's story is to bring RoLo into direct conflict with T'Challa. That isn't Shuri throwing punches at Wolverine. Logan and Ororo are in the process of exploring their romantic relationship. There is no romantic relationship of course.

As far as many, if not most, seX-Men fans are concerned - those interested at any rate - it's enough for them that Wolverine "tapped that" despite expressing his desire to Ororo that if she had to give it up to anybody that it not be the Troll. Their trip to Wakanda is to ensure there is no doubt in T'Challa's mind that Ororo and Logan did indeed have sex and are now in fact, an item...until Jean Grey returns from the dead at least. This story is written for the benefit of Wolverine and the Wolverine/seX-Men fan at the expense of the Black Panther.

Storm is just along for the ride and possibly, to be ridden...cuckold style.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 19, 2013, 06:56:08 am
The battle for the soul of Storm begins in Wolverine 8.

([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])


If T'Choro is such a bad thing, why does Marvel keep alluding to it? Why do they keep using it to sell books?

You know what? I think Marvel knows that they f*cked up, and that's why they keep this door open. Although I AM getting really sick of the whole T'Challa/Wolverine/Storm love triangle, largely because Marvel has no more intentions of putting Storm with Wolverine than they do giving a proud black man a stable, happy marriage to a proud black woman.

(And where the hell are Storm's pants?)
       

I saw a love triangle in the making back in 2011. You can look @ the drawing (below) & see Ororo & T’challah.
The third character (on the left) was originally going to be Logan. @ the last minute I made him a generic character.
Guess why I have a kitty-cat in the drawing? Guess what the kitty-cat represents?

Illustrated blogs, remember!

(http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/052/7/0/afrocentric_storm__4__feat__balck_panther_by_apexabyss-d4qjdei.jpg)

Yes, I’m still debating on whether to move forward with the fan comic... The story line I have is waaaaay too extreme.
I did take Battle’s advice & refocused my energy on the architectural designs of Wakanda... thanks bredren.

(http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/052/e/b/afrocentric_storm__3_feat__black_panther_by_apexabyss-d4qj9uw.jpg)
more of this...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 19, 2013, 07:13:19 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.


Well, she might as well not be wearing anything at all since she's supposed to be some sort f exotic primal woman fetish figure within the X-universe.


Say that, Salustrade.

I do agree that Marvel does seem to be returning to the T'Challa-Storm divorce, though from a character standpoint I can see how that makes sense.



And Salustrade said:
Quote
Character standpoint for whom?

T'Challa's character trajectory is heading on into the Infinity event via the avenue of Hickman's take on the New Avengers.

Do you see any similarly themed forward momentum for Ororo within any of the X-books?

I think we both know the answer to that question.

Ororo's character has been devolved back to the simplistic characterization that Claremont gave her where her ethnicity was never explored or seen as anything important even though she was surrounded by X-Men who all seemed to have distinctive ethnicities themselves. (Piotr rasputin, Kurt Wagner, Kitty Pride and Banshee just to name a few)


Yes. Returned to her bizarre station as black-skinned, white-haired (long, silky...no perm or hair extensions...whitefolk hair), blue-eyed, sexual freak just waiting to be set free. She's no longer a queen - although as many seX-Men fans have observed time and again, Ororo is the spitting image of RuPaul - but she is the mighty "headmistress" whose contribution might as well consist of nothing more than giving head to whatever character - male, female, or other - they throw her way. Meanwhile, T'Challa has better things to do, saving the earth for one.


I mean a divorce is a big change in a person's life so it would take time for them to process that. That being said, I hope these run ins are not being used solely for the purpose of running down T'Challa to make Wolverine look better or to rub Wolverine's shagging of Storm in Panther's face.


And Salustrade said:
Quote
To be frank, Wolverine really isn't the problem here.

It's the X-writers themselves living vicariously through his character who are the problem.

Their disdain for African/African-American and Carribean men is well illustrated within the books they'e been writing over the last few years where characters of this type all seem to get depowerd, maimed and outright killed on the writers whim whilst other caucasian characters are allowed to flourish regardless of how useless they are to the plot.


Dropping knowledge like it weighs ten tons. If I couldn't win the Powerball jackpot last night, at least I get to read this. Bring it, Salustrade.

Also I hope that the divorce thing isn't going to be used as a crutch because the writers have nothing else to do or say about Storm and just rely on her relationships with men (T'Challa or Logan) to define her.



And Salustrade said:
Quote
The writers are writing from a place of creative vacuum and as such, their work only appeals to a fanbase that's equally morally bankrupt and facetiously arrogant to boot.


  Flay it to the bone, Salustrade. Tell it like it T - I - IS.

I still think the marriage was a mistake.


And Salustrade said:
Quote
Why?

Reginald Hudlin merely followed things through to their logical conclusion by crafting a marriage which actually fell in line wit Professor Charles Xavier's primary mission in life to foster better relations between all strands of humanity.


Very true. The only problem as far as seX-Men fans and some LCB-RD fans were concerned is that it was Hudlin who did so.

Quote
Mr Hudlin actually did a better job than any of the X-writers in this regard by merely doing what they should have been doing all along rather than indulging in the same tired "woe is me" crap they've been using the X-titles as a springboard to launch stupidly divisive stories from.


What Hudlin might not have realized is that too many seX-Men fans thrive on "the same tired 'woe is me crap"...with a little...actually more than a little gratuitous sexual innuendo and activity added for good measure. The seX-Men family more closely resembles the Manson family than it does a group of individuals bonded together for the betterment of homosuperior/homosapien relationships.

Quote
In all the years since Ororo's creation by Claremont, did any of the X-writers (including Claremont himself) do anything to explore Ororo's true familial origins?


No they did not. They were more interested in attempting to obliterate Ororo's blackness. Though she was conceived in love by a black American father and a Kenyan mother, born into black humanity on both sides, Claremont wrote a story in which befuddled doctors could not determine her race determining her to be a "patchwork quilt" of humanity. We should all kick ourselves in the rear end for buying into such bull....

Quote
No they didn't, but see how easily Mr Hudlin managed to achieve what the much vaunted (in their own minds) X-writers never bothered to do...


It was never their intent to do so. Those seX-Men writers would rather illustrate Storm's magnficence in stories like the Arena where she is shown unable to resist the wicked energy of Yukio, barely able to restrain the wild side of her nature, enchained, and lastly...lounging in a jacuzzi, drinking champagne with Yukio and Callisto and her slithering tentacles of lust.

Quote
In just one issue, Reginald Hudlin managed to reunite Ororo with the African-american relatives none of the X-writers could be bothered to allude to let alone write about but all they could do was snipe from the side and feed their trollish fanbase with rubbish like this...

([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/1zdu8wk.jpg[/url])

Ororo's marriage to T'Challa elevated her to a character of real political gravitas as a Head of State which in turn, made her the most powerful mutant on 616 MU just off of that fact but of course, the X-Writers needed to have her coralled so they could push their Scott Summers "God Messiah of the Mutants" agenda.

We will never see this Ororo ever again.

Undeniably black and proud as evidenced below...

([url]http://i47.tinypic.com/10e54rb.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/jgt9g3.jpg[/url])

And this is solely down to the fact that they have their own set agenda which is diametrically opposed to anything that we would consider as being appropriate.

They're not invested in Black-on-Black love but have no problem in pushing Black-on-Black violence...

([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/esrggo.jpg[/url])

and the feigned ignorance that comes along when one is caught out distorting the truth.

([url]http://i35.tinypic.com/345oay0.jpg[/url])

I mean, despite T'Challa's new role in New Avengers I think having a Panther-Storm led Uncanny Avengers team would've been sweet.


Hudlin set things up nicely for this self same scenario to have been feasible but of course Marvel weren't invested enough in recognising his genius masterstroke move in marrying the two character in the first place let alone making them fromnt and centre to the 616 MU as they should have been right from jump.


Brilliance, Salustrade! Brilliance! I'm recognizing your genius masterstroke move right here and right now.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 19, 2013, 08:31:37 am
I meant to write I thought the divorce was a mistake. I have long supported the marriage and was disappointed with the annulment/divorce.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 19, 2013, 09:00:01 am
I meant to write I thought the divorce was a mistake. I have long supported the marriage and was disappointed with the annulment/divorce.

It's all good my brother.  ;D

And to my other fellow brother in the struggle, Sinjection1, rest assured that I'm still the same salustrade/Mr MajestiK regardless of whatever board I may be posting on.

It's really frustrating to see how Marvel have allowed the X-writers to totally trash Ororo's character but what's even more dissapointing is the reaction of some if not all of her X-fans who fail to see how watered down her character has become now that the X-writers have her back in their clutches. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 19, 2013, 09:41:34 am
Wolverine #8
([url]http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p210/00Neggro/2F3C24FB-0B9E-44F0-B523-FB98E8C9D8DF-783-0000018EA418110F.jpg[/url])
It begins!


The Marvel Comics "love triangle story". Aside from entertaining the reader  ::), what is its purpose?

To introduce a new character: For some unfathomable reason, Hank Pym/Goliath would not propose marriage to the rich and beautiful Janet Van Dyne. This deep seated frustration created a psychosis which was unleashed when Pym had an accident in his lab. The psychosis manifesting as dissociative identity disorder led Pym to believe himself to be a man called Yellowjacket - a name chosen to more closely associate him to the woman he loved, the Wasp. Yellowjacket-Pym believed he'd killed Goliath-Pym, leaving the field wide open to claim Janet Van Dyne as his. Realizing Yellowjacket and Goliath to be one and the same, Jan marries Hank, who retains the Yellowjacket identity. Pym was involved in a love triangle with the woman he loved and himself. There was a happy resolution.

To keep a character relevant The Hawkeye - Black Widow - Daredevil love triangle. Having lost Wanda to the Vision, Clint Barton - rebounding hard - attempted to rekindle the relationship he once shared with Natasha. A "Sherwood Forest-level" character at best, Hawkeye is a fan favorite for his sarcastic, "bad boy", bed-hopping image as he is for that hokey bow and arrow schtick.

To repair a broken love Reed Richards angered his wife Sue, by putting their son Franklin into a catatonic state. Sue eventually wound up in Atlantis and with Namor. As bad as this seemed, Namor forced Reed's hand by attacking the surface world, provoking a response by the F4. Once Sue saw Reed fighting the much more powerful Namor, she realized she truly loved Reed and throwing herself into her husband's arms, the F4 return to the surface. Namor happily bids them farewell and then, turning to the Inhuman Triton - who had disguised himself as a lieutenant of Namor's - they congratulate each other on their well-executed ploy for reuniting the Richards.

T'Challa - Ororo - Logan isn't a love triangle. While there might exist a remnant of love on two sides of the triangle - T'Challa and Ororo - Logan's side is simply unadulterated, naked sexual lust. Therefore IMHO, the previous examples don't apply to this situation. The aim of this story is to attempt to play up the sensual appeal some people actually believe Wolverine possesses by depicting T'Challa's ex as his new and devoted "peice", and probably show him as equal if not superior to T'Challa in battle.

T'Challa and Ororo are merely window dressing.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 19, 2013, 10:17:10 am
And to my other fellow brother in the struggle, Sinjection1, rest assured that I'm still the same salustrade/Mr MajestiK regardless of whatever board I may be posting on.

It's really frustrating to see how Marvel have allowed the X-writers to totally trash Ororo's character but what's even more dissapointing is the reaction of some if not all of her X-fans who fail to see how watered down her character has become now that the X-writers have her back in their clutches. :smh:

I have never rested easier, assured as I am that you are at the forefront of the struggle brother Salustrade. I know something of how it can be.  The perception of apathy - true or not - in some Panther fans and fans of black characters where the shoddy depiction of those characters are concerned; holding the line at what you believe might be the best direction or circumstance those characters can be moved to while being assailed by some who might not completely agree with or understand your position...sharing opinions that some might find boring, stupid, completely off base, or incendiary. You should know that I don't foresee a time when salustrade/Mr MajestiK won't have his brother sinjection's support.

I share your frustration where Marvel's trashing of not only Ororo, but black characters of nearly equal or lesser significance. Look what's happened to Bishop: to Blade. Where is Maxam who was Nezhno before Nezhno was Nezhno? With the resurrection of Captain America, can it be that the only permanent death of a superhero in Marvel Comics' Civil War was Bill Foster? The only acceptable black male character in the seX-Men mutant corner of Marvel might be Northstar's husband. seX-Men fans weren't content to see Ororo elevated to a level of significance they say she deserves, if it meant being married to T'Challa. They would rather Storm be headmistress of some stupid school,... simply a ready booty call for Wolverine, Forge, or Yukio.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 19, 2013, 09:41:31 pm
Now that's hot, Genki Sudo. Nothing like original art. That is the one aspect my Black Panther collection is deficient in, I most certainly need to improve that situation.

Thanks, he was happy about it because he said it was a sketch he had to think about for a hot second on how to approach it
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 22, 2013, 03:03:08 am
I despise the fact that some X-writers and their editors have made Storm so unappealing to some of her fans and most specifically those fans of the Black Panther and supporters of the marriage.

It seems that they are engaging rather masterfully in the long practiced, often cherished art of divide and conquer separate and rule. A juxtaposition of comic book fiction and reality or more specifically Storm and so called "Black" people reveals some interesting foibles.

Storm is made to choose between the following:

Wakanda or New York
Tchalla's reality or Xavier's dream 
queen of a nation or headmistress of a school 
beloved wife or fetish fantasy

So called "Black" people had similar choices to make:

a Quilombo or a plantation
historically black colleges and universities or white mainstream universities and colleges 
the negro league or the national league
Afra-centric perspective or Euro-centric perspective

Which would you choose? Now compare your answers to your "white" counter part. Some so called "Blacks" still believe the white man's ice is colder. These are the same ones who will be bragging about the first "Negro" allowed into the Hellfire club.

When the first call went out to form a super team of superheroes you mean to tell me no "Black" superheroes were concerned about this? An all white  group of specialists, meta-humans, aliens and gods. Thankfully Priest addressed this in having the Black Panther join the Avengers to gauge their intentions and study their weaknesses.

White super heroes for the most part didn't give a damn about the challenges of "Black" inner city life, apartheid South Africa or the Katrina tragedy. But some "Blacks fans loved them all the same.

Because the very necessary details and nuances of life in Wakanda are not as apparent (often needing to be perceived off panel) as those of reality based Marvel universe New York, it can be misconstrued as less attractive or desirable. The concept of an unconquered, culturally intact Afrakan nation is obscure to many and even offensive to some.

The same can be said for the fact that many Afrakans captured during the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade were not broken and turned into vassals of the European.

The issue of Storm bifurcates into the intrinsic in story occurrences and the extrinsic interpretive experience of the reader. In story their behaviors just don't make sense to me post Hudlin but if events are to be seen as canonical then the lack of desire and interest Tchalla should have in all things concerning Ororo as voiced by some Black Panther fans warrants some merit.

Storm's wasn't the only relationship needlessly sacrificed. The dismantling of the Black Panther's relationship with Dr. Doom and Namor the Sub Mariner were equally wasteful, uncreative attempts at unnecessary drama resulting in poor storytelling.

As a reader of  certain persuasions (cultural, social,political beliefs) I fundamentally see the absence of joint adventures, the annulment of the marriage the physical altercation between the two of them whether intentional or not as a deconstructive, negative statement on "Black" couples, "Black" marriage, "Black" men and "Black" women. In this case I hold the writer responsible and not the character.

I for one would not want to witness the breakup of President Obama and first lady Michelle. The same can be said for Jay Z and Beyonce. These are examples of real life power couples, "Black" power couples. The Black Panther and Storm were comicdom's first (and to my limited knowledge) and only such couple.

All that has preceded lends itself to the following; The Reunification of the Black Panther and Storm: Is it possible? Is it desirable? And why it is most necessary.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 05:28:48 am
Good post Ture. It's not possible. Not In this climate. She's a x-Character, and that's the root of the problem. Honestly, as Salustrade masterfully pointed out...Storm is a bit problematic conceptually. It's not just the writer, it's the character.

Hudlin's (and Mcduffie) Storm was a black woman. I mean it was a central theme and aspect to the character. However, Chris Claremout's Storm was anything but and her connection was minimal to Africa and nonexistent to African American experience; Hudlin is the one who brought up her family that was ignored since her origin story. CC had Storm pine after powerful white men, get into a relationship with Forge who stripped her powers and wrote away her blackness--and he's consider THE Storm writer...while Hudlin is hated and Mcduffie gets shade.

This is common place for the franchise that she is seemingly anchored.Yeah, Storm as a concept is so unappealing to me. She's a character that is unbending. Hudlin's Storm...the idea of Storm is what most fans seem to love. But if you are conscious and you read even her 'heyday' stuff and put it into context with now...I just can't get behind it.

Hudlin was trying to fix the character. Mcduffie was trying to fix the character. Instead she gone backwards. Smashing for a job and a hair do, and doesn't even get a desk and she is the headmistress. Smh. Instead, she's the only X-leader that isn't the focus character of her book. Scott is, Logan is, Cable is, Storm?--Psylocke and Jubilee.

So that's my piece. Maybe Voodoo and Monica can be the black power couple. It's not going to work with Storm.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 07:35:53 am
Hudlin was trying to fix the character. Mcduffie was trying to fix the character. Instead she gone backwards. Smashing for a job and a hair do, and doesn't even get a desk and she is the headmistress. Smh. Instead, she's the only X-leader that isn't the focus character of her book. Scott is, Logan is, Cable is, Storm?--Psylocke and Jubilee.

Storm has become what seX-Men/LCB-RD "fans" have always believed she should be. Powerful, but only within those parameters that keep them entertained and comfortable. Storm is not to be "the most important mutant in the world." That distinction should belong to the white man Scott Summers. Storm should be powerful enough to throw the Black Panther around all creation like a rag doll, but should swoon helplessly - powerless to resist the sexual advances of a hairy, nasty gnome with Elvis Presley sideburns, a Bozo the Clown hairstyle and breath stinking of cigars and beer.

"Headmistress"...say rather, a functionary with benefits. Her "fans" want her encased in a glass box with a label reading: "Break In Case Of Humiliating T'Challa, the Black Panther Or Engaging In Foolish, Gratuitous Sexual Activity With Whomsoever Should Be Presented....unless they happen to be black."
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 09:03:09 am
As always, Ture, it is a priviledge and a pleasure to read your reflections and benefit from the knowledge you always bring to us. Like you, I am incensed at the choices seX-Men writers have made regarding Storm and the other black characters in that franchise, and have been so for some long time now. Years ago, I surely tested the patience of the HEF fulminating against something I called "white writer's choice/preference". White writers writing stories for white girls and white boys who would be best entertained by stories depicting white characters in the best light and minority characters, black characters in especial, not so much.

If I were to ask a white person over the age of 50 to name the "King Of Swing", I'd bet all the Powerball money I didn't win  >:( their answer would be the white man Benny Goodman, not Chick Webb - the TRUE King of Swing and a black man. Elvis is the King of Rock and Roll. eminem is the King of Rap music, according to Rolling Stone Magazine and many agreeing white Rap music fans. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the movie "Friday Night Lights", Ture. It's the story of a diverse, but mostly white Texas state high school football team - the Permian Panthers - and their drive to the state championship. It's based on a true story... ::)

The quarterback of the team is a shy, non-assuming white youth. The star of the team is a boisterous black running back. His name: Boobie Miles. The tall, strong, silent, upstanding defensive end is another black youth. His name Ivory Christian. Ivory = creamy white substance; Christian = a believer in Christianity. A member of the kkk might think twice before lynching any black man with such a name as that. The Dallas Carter Cowboys, the black high school football team was Permian's opponent in the state championship game. As could be expected, the uber-talented, athletic Cowboys were depicted as violent, arrogant thugs...the villain of the piece. This is a visceral, deeply instinctive, initial negative or troubling reaction I believe many white people experience when confronted by black excellence in any given endeavor. White folks are accustomed to being the best at everything. If it is something blacks have excelled at, white folks imitate that something, emulate that something, appropriate that something, and then claim to be the very best at that something. Keeps them regular  :)

Time was in New Orleans, well-to-do white men would keep mixed-race women as sex toys while maintaining their respectable family man images in polite society. Ororo Munroe was born to a black American man (although there is a very obscure image in some book somewhere showing the man to be white), and a Kenyan mother. "white writer's preference" however, chooses to portray Ororo as being black in skin coloring only. Otherwise, Ororo is a patchwork quilt of humanity. Doctors could not classify her as belonging to any one recognized racial family. Ororo is essentially, the kept mixed-race woman of seX-Men writers and fandom.

If there was some spectacular event that could redeem Ororo, remove her from the taint of being culpable in the destruction of Wakanda by mutants and cleanse her of the stench of the debauchery she was written as enjoying with the weasel man and whoever else the seX-Men writers chose to deepen her disgrace, I would welcome a glorious reunion of the Wakandan Royal Couple. Saying this, I am intrigued by what Salustrade believes might be a developing relationship between the Black Panther and the Black Swan. As I mentioned in an earlier posting, the Swan does remind me of a Nikki Adams type - Nikki Adams, the deceased ex-girlfriend of the young T'Challa. How delightful it would be if the Swan was in fact another world Nikki Adams and she and T'Challa begin to explore a deeper relationship in much the same way Ororo and weasel man will be doing as they invade Wakanda together.

The LCB-RD and seX-Men fans would HATE to see this scenario realized and it would be delicious to rub their faces in it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 09:19:29 am
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner. But you are right Sin, they already hate the slight chance that T'challa could get her and not Stark, Namor or some other white hero.

That's part of the draw. I want to see them squirm and they are, it's down right hilarious.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 09:29:21 am
Hudlin's (and Mcduffie) Storm was a black woman. I mean it was a central theme and aspect to the character. However, Chris Claremout's Storm was anything but and her connection was minimal to Africa and nonexistent to African American experience; Hudlin is the one who brought up her family that was ignored since her origin story. CC had Storm pine after powerful white men, get into a relationship with Forge who stripped her powers and wrote away her blackness--and he's consider THE Storm writer...while Hudlin is hated and Mcduffie gets shade.

I remember the first coming of the character Bishop - a powerful black man - into the seX-Men mythos. Recall how he was accepted by those gathered --- cautious and guarded by most of the members, especially Gambit as Bishop evinced an immediate dislike for him, but Forge seemed to be jealous of Bishop from the outset. IIRC, Forge had proposed marriage to Storm in the previous issue and now, here a powerful black man appears out of nowhere. Forge seemed to regard Bishop as a rival for Storm's affection based solely on their common skin color.

During that issue, Forge was dismissive of Bishop and treated Ororo coldly, while at the same time, being very attentive to Mystique...AND ISN'T MYSTIQUE SUPPOSED TO BE A LESBIAN BTW?! The issue ended with Forge rescinding his proposal of marriage to Storm, reading her the riot act for her cruel treatment of Mystique in the process. Storm was left kneeling on the ground, tears streaming from her eyes....heartbroken and being drenched by a rainstorm. Bishop was observing her from the entrance to the mansion. Storm - sobbing - says, "I was going to say yes."

This is the Storm the seX-Men and LCB-RD want to see. This is the man those hypocrites say is Ororo's one true love. The image of a shining, black Queen of a powerful African nation, wife of a strong black King doesn't appeal to them. I wonder how any black Marvel Comics consumer could be a fan of the seX-Men.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 09:39:48 am
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner. But you are right Sin, they already hate the slight chance that T'challa could get her and not Stark, Namor or some other white hero.

That's part of the draw. I want to see them squirm and they are, it's down right hilarious.

If Hawkeye were a member of the Illuminati, some of the LCB-RD might be taking odds of how soon it would take for Clint to bed the Swan.

If Hickman does see fit to bring the Panther and the Swan into first a mutally-respectful relationship evolving into an amorous coupling, the LCB-RD could raise such a clamour to make the din of their protests of the Surfer/armbar hold seem a whisper by comparison.

In the view of some, Ororo was too white for T'Challa. The unmistakably white Black Swan???? Katie bar the door, as they say.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 10:05:49 am
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner. But you are right Sin, they already hate the slight chance that T'challa could get her and not Stark, Namor or some other white hero.

That's part of the draw. I want to see them squirm and they are, it's down right hilarious.

If Hawkeye were a member of the Illuminati, some of the LCB-RD might be taking odds of how soon it would take for Clint to bed the Swan.

If Hickman does see fit to bring the Panther and the Swan into first a mutally-respectful relationship evolving into an amorous coupling, the LCB-RD could raise such a clamour to make the din of their protests of the Surfer/armbar hold seem a whisper by comparison.

In the view of some, Ororo was too white for T'Challa. The unmistakably white Black Swan???? Katie bar the door, as they say.

Yeah. They were making them for Strange, Tony and Namor. Hickman ruled then all out. Beast got a kid on the way, Reed and BB are married ( BB has more then one wife). I don't mind the whole race thing, we shouldn't be like the racist haters-bigots. I'm all in with Salustrade on that.  If Hickman has her being down for T'challa with no X-drama and hairy troll lust--I'm good. I know others aren't.

I wouldn't be a issue if there were more black characters. Rhodey and Falcon are not in relationships at all.

As far as I'm concerned, X-characters are out.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: JLI Jesse on May 22, 2013, 10:32:06 am
I remember the first coming of the character Bishop - a powerful black man - into the seX-Men mythos. Recall how he was accepted by those gathered --- cautious and guarded by most of the members, especially Gambit as Bishop evinced an immediate dislike for him, but Forge seemed to be jealous of Bishop from the outset. IIRC, Forge had proposed marriage to Storm in the previous issue and now, here a powerful black man appears out of nowhere. Forge seemed to regard Bishop as a rival for Storm's affection based solely on their common skin color.

During that issue, Forge was dismissive of Bishop and treated Ororo coldly, while at the same time, being very attentive to Mystique...AND ISN'T MYSTIQUE SUPPOSED TO BE A LESBIAN BTW?! The issue ended with Forge rescinding his proposal of marriage to Storm, reading her the riot act for her cruel treatment of Mystique in the process. Storm was left kneeling on the ground, tears streaming from her eyes....heartbroken and being drenched by a rainstorm. Bishop was observing her from the entrance to the mansion. Storm - sobbing - says, "I was going to say yes."

I just reread those issues and Forge's problem was not with Bishop, it was with Storm.  He was taking is frustrations out on others.  He clashed once or twice with Bishop because Bishop was acting overly aggressive, not yet acclimating to the new time period.  It didn't help that Bishop was running around calling Forge an underling, trying to attack a mentally unstable Mystique, while at the same time attacking Gambit and (wrongfully) calling him a traitor in the X-Men book.  Forge never seemed to be jealous of Bishop, just annoyed.

Forge asked Storm to marry him and she basically told him she had to think about it.  That's a response that would understandably further frustrate anyone in that position.  In the post script of Uncanny 290 we learn that she was going to say yes, but she ended up waiting too long and Forge was under the belief that her heart will always belong to the X-Men, above all other things.  He shouldn't be demonized just for deciding it was time to move on.  He left with Mystique because she was having severe mental issues at that time and he thought he could help her.  It turns out he was right because when we see them a year later in X-Men 301, she is in a much better place.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 22, 2013, 11:26:58 am
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner.

She's white. Pretty it up and obscure all you want to, but she's white. But Marvel keeps slapping black readers in the face over and over - and BP fans in particular - so what's one more time? If anybody loves sucking white cock, it's BP fans. sh*t, Maberry is still busting nuts over the tongue job he got here at HEF.

In the view of absolutely no-motherf*cking-body, Ororo was too white for T'Challa.

Fixed!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 12:10:01 pm
Having recently reread those issues, your perception and interpretation of the particulars of those events would be more vivid than the recollections of myself - an admitted former seX-Men fan - whose last reading of that story was years ago and those books stored away because having spent money on those books, I couldn't bring myself to throw them out with the rest of the trash.

Since my previous posting, I did remember that Kurt Wagner is said to be the natural son of Mystique. It would appear that sexually, Mystique is a dream character where more than a few seX-Men fans are concerned. She tried to seduce Gambit, was intimately involved with Forge while being involved with Destiny in what seems to have been retconned as being a lesbian relationship. With the hints of an Ororo/Yukio relationship mentioned in the same context as Ororo/Forge and RoLo in seX-Men fan conversations, there is little doubt in my mind that there is a wish by more than a few to make Ororo, "Mystique II" where her sexual appetites are concerned.

And now:

  It didn't help that Bishop was running around calling Forge an underling, trying to attack a mentally unstable Mystique, while at the same time attacking Gambit and (wrongfully) calling him a traitor in the X-Men book.  Forge never seemed to be jealous of Bishop, just annoyed.

Murky memories inform me that Bishop meant no offense to Forge, and told him so as the raging old man presumed to scold him. Storm happened to witness this encounter and in fact, caught flak from Forge herself at that time. Right or wrong?

Mystique was faking her mental instability. Also, IIRC, it was Mystique who instigated Bishop into "attacking" her by tormenting him by taking the form of his deceased partners knowing Bishop blamed himself for their deaths. Storm intervened, telling Mystique to knock it off. Right or wrong?

Quote
Forge asked Storm to marry him and she basically told him she had to think about it.  That's a response that would understandably further frustrate anyone in that position.

Forge - a mutant - developed a weapon that nullified the powers of mutants. The act might not have been intentional, but when he unleashed the power of this weapon, its target was Ororo. The result left her without her powers and devastated. She hated him --- tried to kill him didn't she? Overtime, she grew to love him.

Still, what would make Forge or any man for that matter, be frustrated to the degree that the woman to which he proposed marriage exercised her rightful prerogative to give the matter her fullest consideration? As Forge's "frustration" grew, his attitude toward Storm became sharper, bordering on acrimonius. I would think most women, seeing such a disturbing aspect emerging in the character of the man who had asked her to spend the rest of her life with him would be a gigantic red flag.

At any rate, that he could so quickly withdraw his proposal and just as quickly enter into a romantic relationship with a mentally unstable villian who had more than once tried to extinguish the seX-Men shows him to be a person lacking in strength of character rendering him absolutely unsuitable as a mate for the Ororo we Panther fans knew and still love. Now I expect the seX-Men fans wouldn't care one way or another if Ororo were to marry Forge whose character flaws might make for intriguing stories of spousal abuse.




 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 12:17:58 pm
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner.

She's white. Pretty it up and obscure all you want to, but she's white. But Marvel keeps slapping black readers in the face over and over - and BP fans in particular - so what's one more time? If anybody loves sucking white cock, it's BP fans. sh*t, Maberry is still busting nuts over the tongue job he got here at HEF.

Misty Knight is black. Danny Rand is white. A story was written and illustrated telling a tale of a sexual encounter so vigorous and Misty's physical response so energetic that the bedroom looked like a scene from war-torn Iraq. In view of this, I certainly wouldn't be averse to an equally-written/illustrated effort featuring the Black Panther and his Black Swan. For a BP fan, it would be a welcome first time.

In the view of absolutely no-motherf*cking-body, Ororo was too white for T'Challa.



Well, while I have often regarded those few who held/hold that opinion as "no-motherf*cking body", I decided to be gentler and kinder on the occasion of that posting.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 12:32:24 pm
I'm a Swan shipper as well. She's not Nikki, she not even European, but a Albino Middle Easterner.

She's white. Pretty it up and obscure all you want to, but she's white. But Marvel keeps slapping black readers in the face over and over - and BP fans in particular - so what's one more time? If anybody loves sucking white cock, it's BP fans. sh*t, Maberry is still busting nuts over the tongue job he got here at HEF.

In the view of absolutely no-motherf*cking-body, Ororo was too white for T'Challa.

Fixed!

Listen I disagree. You have issues with it, I don't. You can ignore all you want, but it doesn't make you right. "white" as in European she is *not*. Caucasiod yes, European--no she's not. Facts do matter and classifications such as those are shotty and flawed. They call them "Sand N******" for a reason.

To me it doesn't matter though.These are fictional characters and quality stories is all that matters. I like that character, you don't, cool. Marvel is a company that has always been run by white dudes. So if you are a fan of BP, Storm or any minority character-- then you are in the same boat as you just mentioned. It doesn't start with Maberry, that's revisionist history.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: JLI Jesse on May 22, 2013, 01:25:51 pm
I was just stuck at home for four hours as a plumber fixed some issues, so thats why I had time to reread those books :)  I was a long time X-Men book, stopped reading in maybe 2008, but honestly stopped enjoying them sometime in the mid-90s.

Since my previous posting, I did remember that Kurt Wagner is said to be the natural son of Mystique. It would appear that sexually, Mystique is a dream character where more than a few seX-Men fans are concerned. She tried to seduce Gambit, was intimately involved with Forge while being involved with Destiny in what seems to have been retconned as being a lesbian relationship. With the hints of an Ororo/Yukio relationship mentioned in the same context as Ororo/Forge and RoLo in seX-Men fan conversations, there is little doubt in my mind that there is a wish by more than a few to make Ororo, "Mystique II" where her sexual appetites are concerned.


Forge never had a romantic relationship with Mystique outside of some crappy late 90s X-Factor issues, did he?  I try to forget that period of X-Factor from 120-150 or so.  I do know that Destiny foresaw a relationship.

Also, my comic history is started to get rusty.  Outside of theories and fanboys imaginations, has Storm ever actually had a romantic relationship with someone other than Forge or the Black Panther?  people like to bring up Wolverine or Yukio, but I'm not recalling another real relationship.  She was with Forge off and on for eight years or so and then later with BP.

Murky memories inform me that Bishop meant no offense to Forge, and told him so as the raging old man presumed to scold him. Storm happened to witness this encounter and in fact, caught flak from Forge herself at that time. Right or wrong?


You are correct that Bishop meant no disrespect (he says as much) but unfortunately his words did come off as condescending.  Storm stuck up for Bishop but on the next page or so, Forge admits that he is really just frustrated with Storm.  He loved her and wished to have a life with Storm outside the X-Men but wondered if she felt the same way.

Mystique was faking her mental instability. Also, IIRC, it was Mystique who instigated Bishop into "attacking" her by tormenting him by taking the form of his deceased partners knowing Bishop blamed himself for their deaths. Storm intervened, telling Mystique to knock it off. Right or wrong?


Correct, that Mystique instigated him.  And Forge became upset basically telling Bishop that as an X-Man, you don't go around blasting a crazy woman for acting crazy. I don't remember her faking the craziness...I thought it was due to her losing her personality or something through all the shifting.  The whole ruckus began when she, in an admittedly messed up way, became the only person to actually check up and see what was wrong with Archangel (not that I want to defend Mystique.  After killing Moira, I can't see how they ever use her as an "ally" again).

Forge - a mutant - developed a weapon that nullified the powers of mutants. The act might not have been intentional, but when he unleashed the power of this weapon, its target was Ororo. The result left her without her powers and devastated. She hated him --- tried to kill him didn't she? Overtime, she grew to love him.


I think they had an immediate attraction in the classic story, but I could be forgetting a story.

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/1128869-4356667239_e540161c12.jpg) (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans5/UX186_StormForge.JPG)

Still, what would make Forge or any man for that matter, be frustrated to the degree that the woman to which he proposed marriage exercised her rightful prerogative to give the matter her fullest consideration? As Forge's "frustration" grew, his attitude toward Storm became sharper, bordering on acrimonius. I would think most women, seeing such a disturbing aspect emerging in the character of the man who had asked her to spend the rest of her life with him would be a gigantic red flag.


In Uncanny X-Men 290, Forge and Jean had a conversation that basically went:

Forge: Not the answer I was looking for but better than her saying drop dead
Jean: She could have said No
Forge: She could have said Yes.

Jean certainly didn't help matters.  From uncannyxmen.net (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldauto=1756)

"Forge tells Jean that she knows he loves Ororo more than life. Jean tells him that she does not need telepathy to see that, for it is obvious. Forge tells her that it is not so obvious if Ororo loves him in return. She says she does and she may believe it, but can Jean tell him if Storm truly loves him. Jean looks away from Forge and, after a moment, she tells him that it isn’t her place to say. Forge lets Jean go and walks away, telling her that she just did. "

Forge's main issue with his relationship with Storm was that he was under the impression that Storm loved her job more than she loved him.  She didn't tell him otherwise, even though he asked throughout the previous issue, until it was too late.    All relationships hit rocky patches.  It doesn't mean they don't love each other.  Even in the real world, some people value career over relationships and thats ok.  But you can't expect someone to sit around and wait for you to be ready.

Now I expect the seX-Men fans wouldn't care one way or another if Ororo were to marry Forge whose character flaws might make for intriguing stories of spousal abuse.


Has Forge ever been shown to be abusive towards women?  I don't recall but let me know if I am forgetting.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 22, 2013, 01:46:10 pm
Maxine Shaw for the win! 8)


The bottom line is the "Black Power Couple" thing was tossed out and conveniently a white woman is dangled in front of your eyes all the while trashing a black female character (Storm) that has way more street cred than this new chick who is only 5 issues in!


OOPS I'm sorry... She's an albino middle easterner from another planet that just happens to look white! ;)


Bait and Switch!


I am Max Shaw... Maxine let's get back together again for the kids sake! :-*


Carry on...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 02:07:25 pm
Listen Flex, nothing is being dangled. Nothing at all. There is no suggestion that it will even occur. And Who cares. If you are a racist or a bigoted then I guess so--but I don't care.

You are pining after who, According to Marvel isn't really black, but all races combined, a character that only screws white men  and has her entire history until very recent and yet you put her up on a pedestal on like a simp on some cockiod ish.  You really want to talk about a Black women, then put him with a black woman, not one with white hair, blue eyes and caucasian features with minimal deveoplent as being African but is instead considered more mutant--then as representive of a Black woman? GTFOH.

There was never a power couple. Lol. Open your eyes. The X-office ignored, sabatoged and destroyed it from the start and you still holding your hand out.

And you talking when you hate on Shuri? A black female character who's race isn't obscured at all Wishing that she's killed, yet pine after Storm? Lmao. Please spare me.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 22, 2013, 02:14:53 pm
We are 5 issues into New Avengers.

Out of those 5 issues Black Swan has spent 3 and 1/2 of 'em in a friggin cage.

The only reason to ship her with anybody in the New Avengers title is that she practically is the only woman
in the entire series to have more than 3 lines of dialogue.

So I take all of this with a big grain of salt. There isn't any evidence to think Marvel is or is not going that route.

I will say for what it's worth, Black Swan is effectively a white woman going by how she is drawn. No matter what her stated ethincity is supposed to be.

As a comparison, in the 90's there was a African American Steel foe called the White Rabbit and while she was also an Albino
she was clearly drawn with Black features so there was really no way you could think she was anything BUT Black.

Here: Not a good picture BTW, but best I can do without a scanner:

http://www.comicvine.com/white-rabbit/4005-60413/ (http://www.comicvine.com/white-rabbit/4005-60413/)

P.S. OK,  I found a slightly better pic:

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20080309131245/marvel_dc/images/3/3c/White_Rabbit_01.jpg)

P.S.: It seems that DC revamped the White Rabbit character and made her a outright White woman intead of her being an African American Albino woman. 

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120403051927/marvel_dc/images/2/2e/White_Rabbit_II_003.jpg)
 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 22, 2013, 02:17:50 pm
Re  the above: Yikes.

If anybody wants to know why girls don't read comics you have exhibits A, B, C. right there.

Say what you will but props should be given to Reg and Co. for making sure that Shuri didn't look like
a combat hooker.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 22, 2013, 02:43:59 pm
One of the coolest things about Hudlin is that he was always genuine about his true intentions!


President of BET and writing the Black Panther as a certified BOSS... No excuses no apologies and no dangling! ;)


That evolved into the box office smash Django Unchained and based upon the praise received from the cast involved he was masterful behind the scenes on one of the most controversial movies like ever... That means Reggie was kind of that glue that held things together or Christopher Waltz is lying! ;)


After him we have "Architects" that have talked a good game or just accepted the status quo with little or no fight and then dangled stuff in your face as if they are inconsiderate to what Black Panther and Storm were meant to be historically!


Nothing Dangled?


Oh so you missed the on panel flirtations there Seven my bad... Looks like a necklace placed around the neck was involved instead of say prison issue bomb shackles for a white woman that MURDERED Wakandan children!


She should have gotten at least the probation ankle bracelet for her actions but she got the Jacob The Jeweler Jesus piece platinum bling for an outright attack on Wakandan soil!


Is this thing on?


I know Storm was written as a FRAK up but did she stay open fire on Wakandan children at point blank range!


That don't bother you Black Man?


Anywho...


Got a clip for you... Enjoy!



http://youtu.be/smKJP6eIO1I (http://youtu.be/smKJP6eIO1I)


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 22, 2013, 03:04:17 pm


(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/26874/1168995-storm16.jpg)
(http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/130534/2515543-rolo_uxm245kiss.jpg)
(http://i52.tinypic.com/jb749z.jpg)
(http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/rrrrizhaja/35808070_19160458900storm_super.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/swigsgambler/thorstorm.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FPAetrvLhD4/TIJL2s3-NeI/AAAAAAAABjs/-d_qb1DnGC4/s1600/CotMS%26G01-004.jpg)
Still married
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2676662-lol.jpg)
Still married

I could go on and on.

People are allowed to ship who ever they like; Some Cap fans ship Scarlet Witch, some Storm fans ship Thor. So what. The fact that you seem to take shots at someone shipping is crazy. It's my opinion. I'll tell you right now I'm the type who doesn't give a crap what others think.

Fact is-- they were only a power couple cosmetically and Hudlin did a great job pushing them, but he could not beat a whole Office. That's reality. The X-verse didn't reflect it and when they did they went in his man hood. You ok with that, oh let me correct myself; Storm went in on his manhood. Same as your example Flex. :)

You keep pinning. If you want to talk blood, Storm COULD HAVE saved thousands if she was in Wakanda, instead she was attacking her husband as her masters commanded her with a nazi. I like BW, thats a opinion. i like other characters too..like Okoye for example. He doesn't have to marry, I have said she could be his Catwoman. But you seem to gloss over that. You cool with Storm as a character in spite of her history, but if T'challa doesn't date a black woman...smh

Real talk. I've been going in on Storm WAY before Black Swan, so like I said spare me. That BS tactic of yours there is a joke. You can put her up on pedestal while calling on the DEATH of a character that Hudlin created so little Black girls would have a Panther. I call it hypocrisy Black man.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 22, 2013, 03:45:12 pm
Bane: "Ah yes I was wondering what would break first... Your spirit... Or your body!"


C'mon Seven you know what I meant! ::)


And you could beat a whole office Hudlin did it for at least three years it just needs a hardcore boots laced up person to finish the agenda!


The only mistake that Hudlin made was not getting at least 100,000 consumers to help keep him far above the cancellation number or whatever it was that brought Mayberry in!


Hudlin could have had a Claremont style long run but that brings me to my whole point about the "Point Man" Manhattan Project scenario where Black Panther has his own office and an around the clock creative team catering strictly to him!


If you can get Storm in the first place you at least know that manipulating the X-office is possible... But to keep her you needed to be more diabolical and find avenues above the pay grades of your detractors!


This was why I wanted Hudlin to host a Black Comics Convention in Los Angeles before the numbers got lower and leverage was lost!


It is very important that when you are in the drivers seat and have the power you understand that you are on the clock as is everything related to the black characters you put together!


Sometimes being as paranoid or as xenophobic as Black Panther is depicted to be helps in real life!


Now as far as Shuri goes I knew that once she was made queen it would be a long time before T'challa became king of Wakanda again so sure I want Black Barbie gone ASAP... But I understand Reggie's thinking and reason for making her but as I said before she was sucking up panel time from Storm and making it easier to push Storm out of the picture!


Storm was and is a money maker... Shuri is not a money maker nor has she ever been so you have to jettison some cargo no matter how much you love it or have grown attached to it!


Shuri also gave the excuse to not have a black man be the king of his country as his younger sister did the political stuff while he did the super hero stuff!


We learn from Hudlin's achievements as much as we learn from his mistakes but throwing him under the bus is not necessary if we don't know all the behind the scenes reasons for everything!


Maybe the X-office and the Hatorade sippers waited until Hudlin showed some fatigue on the job as they wore him down before making their move... Who knows!


STILL... What does that have to do with your pinning for the white girl when this is an old trick and so blatantly obvious from a greater historical perspective?


Do you need a phone call from Malcolm X to tell you what just happened or can you see clearly on your own?


You don't have to be a black militant or love/hate white women to see what you got hoodwinked into agreeing to! 8)









Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 22, 2013, 06:27:12 pm
You can ignore all you want, but it doesn't make you right.

Yes, it does. She's white. If you want to cape for BP banging a white chick for the lulz, just say so and be done with it.

And anybody who capes for Shuri at this point shouldn't be taken seriously, anyway. Reg made a few mistakes in his run, and she was the main one.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 22, 2013, 08:43:15 pm
Vicariously let's talk double standards here...


If white guys at the LCS (Local Comic Shop) are accused of pining for Storm... What about the brothas pining for B-Swizzy?


Masturbatory is masturbatory no matter how you want to spin it!


LL Cool J: "I took the cover right home to the bathroom!"


Storm may have harmed Wakanda with her actions but she sure didn't kill Wakandan children on a field trip at point blank range right after one of them literally said "Hello" in his own backyard which B-Swizzy was technically trespassing on against Wakanda national security!


I may disagree with Maxine about spanking children but shooting them to death is a bit too far for a future love interest... Unless she is white though!


Doomwar... Namorwar... Black Swan War... Unless she's putting out right! ::)




Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 10:46:38 pm
Listen I disagree. You have issues with it, I don't. You can ignore all you want, but it doesn't make you right. "white" as in European she is *not*. Caucasiod yes, European--no she's not. Facts do matter and classifications such as those are shotty and flawed. They call them "Sand N******" for a reason.


Monet St. Croix (M), is listed here http://blacksuperheroes.blogspot.com/2009/06/monet-st-croix-black-mutant-supergirl.html (http://blacksuperheroes.blogspot.com/2009/06/monet-st-croix-black-mutant-supergirl.html) as being a black mutant. However, in the view of some (aka "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body") types, Monet ain't no such -- never has been; never will be.

"absolutely no-motherf*cking body" asserts that M is Algerian, a Berber. Berbers are not black people says "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body". But "absolutely no-motherf*cking body, isn't M's father a black man? "Hell no. That was a colorist's mistake.", was the reply. At any rate, when an M/Synch romance appeared to be in the offing, white seX-Men writers offed the brother and soon, the offal that was the lurid sexual coupling between M and a Madrox duplicate was produced, doubtless thrilling and titillating "absolutely no-mother-f*cking-body".

As far as I'm concerned, the sooner T'Challa can get with that, white woman, "albino sand n******", whatever anyone concerned wants to call her, the better. It can't be any worse than black Cecelia Reyes kissing Hank McCoy's animal mouth, becoming impregnated and producing children who resemble bigfoot.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2013, 11:18:47 pm


([url]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/26874/1168995-storm16.jpg[/url])
([url]http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/13/130534/2515543-rolo_uxm245kiss.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i52.tinypic.com/jb749z.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s17/rrrrizhaja/35808070_19160458900storm_super.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee305/swigsgambler/thorstorm.jpg[/url])
([url]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_FPAetrvLhD4/TIJL2s3-NeI/AAAAAAAABjs/-d_qb1DnGC4/s1600/CotMS%26G01-004.jpg[/url])
Still married
([url]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2676662-lol.jpg[/url])
Still married

I could go on and on.

People are allowed to ship who ever they like; Some Cap fans ship Scarlet Witch, some Storm fans ship Thor. So what. The fact that you seem to take shots at someone shipping is crazy. It's my opinion. I'll tell you right now I'm the type who doesn't give a crap what others think.

Fact is-- they were only a power couple cosmetically and Hudlin did a great job pushing them, but he could not beat a whole Office. That's reality. The X-verse didn't reflect it and when they did they went in his man hood. You ok with that, oh let me correct myself; Storm went in on his manhood. Same as your example Flex. :)

You keep pinning. If you want to talk blood, Storm COULD HAVE saved thousands if she was in Wakanda, instead she was attacking her husband as her masters commanded her with a nazi. I like BW, thats a opinion. i like other characters too..like Okoye for example. He doesn't have to marry, I have said she could be his Catwoman. But you seem to gloss over that. You cool with Storm as a character in spite of her history, but if T'challa doesn't date a black woman...smh

Real talk. I've been going in on Storm WAY before Black Swan, so like I said spare me. That BS tactic of yours there is a joke. You can put her up on pedestal while calling on the DEATH of a character that Hudlin created so little Black girls would have a Panther. I call it hypocrisy Black man.


I'm so glad you chose not to "go on and on", Seven. I was getting sick to my stomach. But, when you're right, you're right. This isn't about BP fans trashing black love relationships, trashing Ororo, or anything of that sort. It's all about showing how writers have chosen to present a property that has been said is the most popular minority comicbook character.

Nicholas Payton angers white Jazz music fans by choosing to refer to the genre by the acronym "BAM", Black American Music. Those angry white fans will still buy tickets to his performances because he is the best trumpeter in the game. White seX-Men writers and fans anger Black Panther fans by assassinating his character, and worse, using Storm to do so. Still, those Black Panther fans who will, continue buying books in which the hero appears with the expectation that the book will mark a significant sea change in the fortunes of the character.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 04:54:28 am
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner T'Challa can get with that, white woman, "albino sand n******", whatever anyone concerned wants to call her, the better. It can't be any worse than black Cecelia Reyes kissing Hank McCoy's animal mouth, becoming impregnated and producing children who resemble bigfoot.

See what I mean? This is perfect. "I can't wait for T'Challa to get some white pussy." You know who's upset about that? Nobody! No need for doublespeak. Just say that you want T'Challa to get a white girl and be done with it! If you would just stop making up sh*t (who the f*ck ever said that Monet wasn't black, even though her dad is black?), you'd be the best poster here.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 06:39:59 am
You are on some Tyler Perry styled BS hating the black man, poor "black" woman nonsense. How come you NEVER say a word about Storm, her relationships with white men and who her fans want her with...the same people who demonize the sh*t out of T'challa...you steady tap dancing and being nice them, then talking about bamboozled here? LMFAO.  :'( Really dude? I don't have web pages dedicated to Storm and Panther. I'm a realist. If Mr. Hudlin could see it for what it is, I'm wondering why certain posters can't? He did a great service to Storm by putting them together. Not T'challa,  but Hudlin was helping STORM. Who in my opinion was FAR more problematic and being replaced and shoved aside for Emma Frost. Look at her current role for the last few years.  Don't get it twisted. The same people you never challenge never thought he was good enough.

You talking about and invoking Malcolm X, then calling for a death of a Black Queen who's ethnicity or race is unquestionably black? Who looks unquestionably, African. That's rich. :o Maybe you need to take your own advice. You are being a hypocritical.

 I said before, my view of Black Swan really has nothing to do with Storm at all. It has nothing to do with race either.  If you want to play like you don't get it..that's cool, but you can look below and see the that created massive thread about Storm before WAY I knew who Black Swan was...back in september, You keep pining though. There was no Black Swan then. I'm saying the same exact things I have been saying for years.

Honestly, it doesn't really matter to me if BP and Swam hook up or not. there is no suggestion that it will occur. If it doesn't happen, that's cool too. I really don't care. I care more about quality story telling with T'challa in a position to shine. but It will not bother me at all. Real talk, but I like seeing people post utter nonsense as that prospect. :) The power couple fantasy never had power over me...now it's in shambles  and you are but hurt about it, but nothing is going to change what the X-office are doing. It's their character and they s***** on you right now. Not me, but the piners. As Redjack said get off the Plantation. You not getting a power couple. Lmao. You really going to let them have That sort of power over you? There aren't many white "power couples" let alone black ones. Marvel is anti-relationship as they can be unless its Reed and Sue. There are not even a enough black female characters and the X-office for sure doesn't care. Either you are cool just reading for enjoying for the current status quo or not. I just read Sin's post, yeah I agree. Shaws post too.  My thing is not her race though, I want him with characters the haters desire for their favorite character. Plus, I like the character. I'm not asking for marriage, with children or any of that. But for T'challa to get his like other characters do. None if them sans Reed and Sue end up together.

Lmao at you name dropping Malcolm X, can you believe this ish...while talking about white controlled comic books. really dude? Lol.  That's ridiculous. Then ignoring the fact that you calling on the death of a black female character. Marvel gave a straight up answer about the marriage, accept it ...but in your mind it's something else. Lol. It's ok man. I'm hip to how they do things. I know exactly what they did. I have posted about it over and over. But unlike you, they don't have that power over me. I know this is the "plantation" as Redjack posted in the Storm thread. The marriage was over when Hudlin stepped down and we lost Mr. Mcduffie.

Storm is not a money maker. The X-office doesn't even respect her and her hating fans are cool with it. "Waiting for wood" while she's being done dirty. Still blaming Black Panther, Hudlin and BP writer for her downward spiral. I just want to know In what world is Storm making money? She has no solo comic, games or movies. She's not a central focus ANYWHERE or in any book as the main character. SIF has a fraking book, Ms. Marvel, Storm? nah. She was lucky Hudlin make her the co-star and to have that focus in Black Panther. So your lame excuse about Shuri is bunk dude. You wishing death on a black character and trying to talk all high and mighty about blackness? Frak outta here with that bs.  ;) as long as Shuri isn't taking away something she's good. Day to day "Ruling" is meaningless at Marvel. It's actually a excuse for limbo.

I'm NOT wishing for or calling for death or demise of Storm. She good with whatever character they put her with. It will be no different then her entire existence as a character. I don't even have a issue with her being with Logan. i just have issues with your double standard...you equivocate any time Storm comes up.  You trash Swan shippers and yet you cool with Storm doing what she has from the beginning, you mum on that.p, you pinning for that.  That's when you start getting Perry-ish. It's kinda hypocritical being cool with her Woods-like past (and future) and then talk down on people shipping for a middle eastern albino whatever character...who isn't passed like a fetish doll. That has nothing to do with not wanting black love. There is Falcon and Rhodey...black males that both are eunuchs and sexless basically. But discounting the X-verse. There are not many black females. And my first choice was Okoye a former dora and black wakandan as seeing in the couples thread. So again, spare me.

You invoke Mr. Hudlin and he's the one who put Shuri as Queen. His reasons were legit and correct. Little black girls should have a black panther. The best franchises have multiple characters. He also had her AS QUEEN In his Panther Annual after T'challa stepped down. JH rectified the king conundrum by making him KING OF KINGS aka the High-King. Not good enough, you would rather he be sequestered away ruling day to day and not mattering. To readers that get it, the excuse that has been used time and time again to banish him off when things start to matter has been removed (for now)! The Street Level bs, has been removed. Yes, it can be ignored, but at least make it hard for them to do it. Shuri is essentially a freaking regent.

 But You keep on pinning for Storm while she's passed off and around to Wolveine, Gambit, Namor, Thor, Doom, Cable and every other non-black male the X-office can of her having "moments with". You keep pining. I'll keep laughing at you. The X-office will keep laughing too. Remember I don't care. I'm good with what T'challa is doing. You are not.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 06:49:30 am
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner T'Challa can get with that, white woman, "albino sand n******", whatever anyone concerned wants to call her, the better. It can't be any worse than black Cecelia Reyes kissing Hank McCoy's animal mouth, becoming impregnated and producing children who resemble bigfoot.

See what I mean? This is perfect. "I can't wait for T'Challa to get some white pussy." You know who's upset about that? Nobody! No need for doublespeak. Just say that you want T'Challa to get a white girl and be done with it! If you would just stop making up sh*t (who the f*ck ever said that Monet wasn't black, even though her dad is black?), you'd be the best poster here.

"Nobody would be upset..."  :)   :D

Look here: The prospect of Hickman writing a Black Swan - powerful, aloof, seemingly dismissive of certain members of the Illuminati and easily as beautiful as Storm is herself - demonstrating a growing respect for the Black Panther, evincing a growing attraction to the Black Panther--ignoring Illuminati member Tony Stark for example, in the process and finally, planting a huge kiss on T'Challa's lips in prelude to an intercourse far more intimate than intellectual or verbal would prove upsetting to a considerable many LCB-RD and quite possibly, many black Marvel fans who like those who see black athletes with white women, speak disparagingly of his choice of companion: "Oh, I see that negro is happy with his pot of gold." If you want to call that number "nobody", please do. That's about as high a level as they'll ever rise in my estimation anyway.

"Doublespeak". Oh, no. Not doublespeak. When a cruise missle is on the attack, it flies below the radar, following the terrain of enemy territory but never once losing its target. When it makes contact with the target, it is usually with devastating effect. This is the posting style that made the "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" CBR types so angry, so frustrated, so out of sorts that I've no doubt one or two had to seek therapy. Muhammad Ali's punches were so fast, they appeared to lack power. After his fights, his opponent's faces often looked lumpier than a bad mattress. The evisceration may be painless: the victim is disemboweled nevertheless. I say what I mean. I mean what I say.

Years of watching Tyrone Johnson written as being in a unrequited relationship with a skinny white girl while seX-Men writers depict Ororo being titillated by a very patriotic display of red, white, and blue men. Black Synch blown up before getting to first base with M while seX-Men writers have Monet and Siren fighting over nasty, beard-stubbled Madrox.... seX-Men writers dogging out the Panther while Storm is ready to drop trou for Wolverine, Gambit; Yukio. seX-Men writers and other writers producing stories illustrating homosexual relationships...men kissing men...a BLACK MAN married to a white man. Tell me if this reads like "doublespeak" to you. I-want-T'Challa-to-SMASH-the-Black-Swan.

Homosexuality is a fact and is being presented more and more in comicbooks. Well, this too is fact. For years - since the end of WWII at any rate - black men and white women sexual activity has been commonplace. You think "nobody is upset" about that? Kobe Bryant allegedly raped a white women and TODAY, you would be hard-pressed NOT to be able to find 100 white women who would love a roll in the hay with Kobe. OJ Simpson was dating white women AFTER having been found not guilty in the murder of his wife and her companion. You think "nobody is upset" about that?

I'm not making up a story about my conversation concerning M's racial heritage with "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body"; I am recounting actual history. What I related was the gist of what was an actual exchange between myself and CBR "absolutely no-motherf*cking body" years ago. As for my being the best poster here....uh uh. Ture, Supreme Illuminati, Seven, Salustrade, and others would have to stop posting today for that to even be a remote possibility.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 06:53:57 am
As far as I'm concerned, the sooner T'Challa can get with that, white woman, "albino sand n******", whatever anyone concerned wants to call her, the better. It can't be any worse than black Cecelia Reyes kissing Hank McCoy's animal mouth, becoming impregnated and producing children who resemble bigfoot.

See what I mean? This is perfect. "I can't wait for T'Challa to get some white pussy." You know who's upset about that? Nobody! No need for doublespeak. Just say that you want T'Challa to get a white girl and be done with it! If you would just stop making up sh*t (who the f*ck ever said that Monet wasn't black, even though her dad is black?), you'd be the best poster here.

"Nobody would be upset..."  :)   :D

Look here: The prospect of Hickman writing a Black Swan - powerful, aloof, seemingly dismissive of certain members of the Illuminati and easily as beautiful as Storm is herself - demonstrating a growing respect for the Black Panther, evincing a growing attraction to the Black Panther--ignoring Illuminati member Tony Stark for example, in the process and finally, planting a huge kiss on T'Challa's lips in prelude to an intercourse far more intimate than intellectual or verbal would prove upsetting to a considerable many LCB-RD and quite possibly, many black Marvel fans who like those who see black athletes with white women, speak disparagingly of his choice of companion: "Oh, I see that negro is happy with his pot of gold." If you want to call that number "nobody", please do. That's about as high a level as they'll ever rise in my estimation anyway.

"Doublespeak". Oh, no. Not doublespeak. When a cruise missle is on the attack, it flies below the radar, following the terrain of enemy territory but never once losing its target. When it makes contact with the target, it is usually with devastating effect. This is the posting style that made the "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" CBR types so angry, so frustrated, so out of sorts that I've no doubt one or two had to seek therapy. Muhammad Ali's punches were so fast, they appeared to lack power. After his fights, his opponent's faces often looked lumpier than a bad mattress. The evisceration may be painless: the victim is disemboweled nevertheless. I say what I mean. I mean what I say.

Years of watching Tyrone Johnson written as being in a unrequited relationship with a skinny white girl while seX-Men writers depict Ororo being titillated by a very patriotic display of red, white, and blue men. Black Synch blown up before getting to first base with M while seX-Men writers have Monet and Siren fighting over nasty, beard-stubbled Madrox. seX-Men writers dogging out the Panther while Storm is ready to drop trou for Wolverine, Gambit...Yukio. seX-Men writers and other writers producing stories illustrating homosexual relationships...men kissing men...a BLACK MAN married to a white man. Tell me if this reads like "doublespeak" to you. I-want-T'Challa-to-SMASH-the-Black-Swan.

Homosexuality is a fact and is being presented more and more in comicbooks. Well, the fact that for years - since the end of WWII at any rate - black men and white women sexual activity has been commonplace. You think "nobody is upset" about that? Kobe Bryant allegedly raped a white women and TODAY, you would be hard-pressed NOT to be able to find 100 white women who would love a roll in the hay with Kobe. OJ Simpson was dating white women AFTER having been found not guilty in the murder of his wife and her companion. You think "nobody is upset" about that?

I'm not making up a story about my conversation concerning M's racial heritage with "absolutely no-f*cking-body", I am recounting actual history. What I related was the gist of what was an actual exchange between myself and CBR "absolutely no-f*cking body" years ago. As for my being the best poster here....uh uh. Ture, Supreme Illuminati, Seven, Salustrade, and others would have to stop posting today for that to even be a remote possibility.

^^^^^you get it Sin. That's exactly it. I agree with all this. I'm not pining for Storm. She's going to have to make it on her own now. No way T'challa should be chasing after her while she's screwing Logan. But that's what some fans would have.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 07:07:52 am
You are on some Tyler Perry styled BS hating the black man, poor "black" woman nonsense. How come you NEVER say a word about Storm, her relationships with white men and who her fans want her with...the same people who demonize the sh*t out of T'challa...you steady tap dancing and being nice them, then talking about bamboozled here? LMFAO.  :'(

 ;D  Seven....right on point.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 07:09:58 am
Besides Luke, other other black men are pretty much sexless. T'challa for example, was off in Hell Kitchen doing nothing, Storm was with Logan getting kissed on the neck, or screwed in alternate reality by Namor. Lmao. Isn't that ish crazy? Falcon or Rhodey nothing. Voodoo had Monica R. And was killed off. The black X-boys don't get no play. Ironfist had Misty. Frenzy and M are white men (Frenzy likes Scott) M strong guy (frak Darwin).

Smh
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 07:15:40 am
You are on some Tyler Perry styled BS hating the black man, poor "black" woman nonsense. How come you NEVER say a word about Storm, her relationships with white men and who her fans want her with...the same people who demonize the sh*t out of T'challa...you steady tap dancing and being nice them, then talking about bamboozled here? LMFAO.  :'(

 ;D  Seven....right on point.


Flex my dude. He has real passion and love for this. But I just think its getting ridiculous. Lol. Lmao :) ;D

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 07:24:22 am
Seven...


What does all that have to do with you taking the cover of New Avengers #5 to the bathroom with you? ;)


A man wants what he wants... Get yours!


Malcolm X had white women too on his journey so it's all good... I just want you to be happy and if B-Swizzy gets your rocks off then you have at her! ;D


No matter what Storm was doing you were still all up in the B-Swizzy Kool-aid and did not know the flavor... Sip in peace!


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 07:32:51 am
Besides Luke, other other black men are pretty much sexless. T'challa for example, was off in Hell Kitchen doing nothing, Storm was with Logan getting kissed on the neck, or screwed in alternate reality by Namor. Lmao. Isn't that ish crazy? Falcon or Rhodey nothing. Voodoo had Monica R. And was killed off. The black X-boys don't get no play. Ironfist had Misty. Frenzy and M are white men (Frenzy likes Scott) M strong guy (frak Darwin).

Smh

One of the topics I touched on during CBR's "War on sinjection" era, was the dearth of black/black relationships --- let alone romantic relationships --- in Marvel Comics. "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" was so "unconcerned" they called me racist and accused me of "forcing" characters who would otherwise have no reason to have a relationship, together for no better reason that they both happen to be black. When I suggested a Monica Rambeau/Bishop pairing you would have thought I was advocating replacing American Apple Pie with Japanese dookie steak.

You mentioned Frenzy. I was told that Frenzy absolutely adored Magneto and wouldn't have use for any black man who wasn't a mutant. And Seven, look at this. I once saw an issue of Avengers featuring Jessica Jones on the cover surrounded by Ms Marvel, Wasp, and other Avengers femme fatale types. Those white writers know what they're doing. They are well aware of the message they are determined to convey. Jessica Jones - Luke's woman - was the only female on the cover of that book who was drawn so ugly that it appeared she had been mule-kicked in the face.

Oh, Luke can have fugly Jessica. Bishop can be written as being in an alternate universe love relationship with the hideous Deathbird. And while even the most attractive black women can be helplessly, sexually attracted to diminuative fuzzy hairballs with Elvis Presley sideburns, a Bozo the Clown haircut and the appearance of one who rarely bathes...when they can be written as tongue-kissing the animal mouth of a white male mutant...even in view of this, there is no possibility that a character like the Black Swan could be attracted to a warrior king like the Black Panther.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 23, 2013, 07:52:03 am
Uh, so I forget....what exactly does all this have to do with the New Avengers anyway?

Going forward in the current market this is probably the only context that T'Challa can suceed in
as a comic book characters: a main character in an Avengers book written by an up and coming fan favorite.

If you tried to spin him off into a solo book it would likely fail. Not even Bendis who retailers trust could push
Moon Knight and Spider Woman. Leob and McGinnis put together could only make Nova a low 40K seller.

And usually everything they touch does 100K.

A Black Panther book in this market has less than no chance.
 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 07:58:33 am
Uh, so I forget....what exactly does all this have to do with the New Avengers anyway?

Going forward in the current market this is probably the only context that T'Challa can suceed in
as a comic book characters: a main character in an Avengers book written by an up and coming fan favorite.

If you tried to spin him off into a solo book it would likely fail. Not even Bendis who retailers trust could push
Moon Knight and Spider Woman. Leob and McGinnis put together could only make Nova a low 40K seller.

And usually everything they touch does 100K.

A Black Panther book in this market has less than no chance.

Agreed. You have to build he up and wait for a movie, then maybe hope for a Fraction Hawkeye. He needs to be a Avenger for a while. They could drag out the war with Namor and then have a game of thrones styled book staring monarchs. But there zero chance in this market for a solo book.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 08:07:25 am
Seven...


What does all that have to do with you taking the cover of New Avengers #5 to the bathroom with you? ;)


A man wants what he wants... Get yours!


Malcolm X had white women too on his journey so it's all good... I just want you to be happy and if B-Swizzy gets your rocks off then you have at her! ;D


No matter what Storm was doing you were still all up in the B-Swizzy Kool-aid and did not know the flavor... Sip in peace!


Lmao. This is both delusional and hilarious. Thanks Bro for the laugh.  ;)
You keep paining for The female Tiger.  ;) And like I said, look below at the massive thread about Storm, where I'm saying the same things. Why, because its the truth.


And apparently you didn't know Storm "flavor" either.

(http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/203/3523859881e31af041e1o.jpg)
Sip it? Lol

She steady getting hair cuts in the danger room and no desk.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 08:16:42 am
Besides Luke, other other black men are pretty much sexless. T'challa for example, was off in Hell Kitchen doing nothing, Storm was with Logan getting kissed on the neck, or screwed in alternate reality by Namor. Lmao. Isn't that ish crazy? Falcon or Rhodey nothing. Voodoo had Monica R. And was killed off. The black X-boys don't get no play. Ironfist had Misty. Frenzy and M are white men (Frenzy likes Scott) M strong guy (frak Darwin).

Smh

One of the topics I touched on during CBR's "War on sinjection" era, was the dearth of black/black relationships --- let alone romantic relationships --- in Marvel Comics. "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" was so "unconcerned" they called me racist and accused me of "forcing" characters who would otherwise have no reason to have a relationship, together for no better reason that they both happen to be black. When I suggested a Monica Rambeau/Bishop pairing you would have thought I was advocating replacing American Apple Pie with Japanese dookie steak.

You mentioned Frenzy. I was told that Frenzy absolutely adored Magneto and wouldn't have use for any black man who wasn't a mutant. And Seven, look at this. I once saw an issue of Avengers featuring Jessica Jones on the cover surrounded by Ms Marvel, Wasp, and other Avengers femme fatale types. Those white writers know what they're doing. They are well aware of the message they are determined to convey. Jessica Jones - Luke's woman - was the only female on the cover of that book who was drawn so ugly that it appeared she had been mule-kicked in the face.

Oh, Luke can have fugly Jessica. Bishop can be written as being in an alternate universe love relationship with the hideous Deathbird. And while even the most attractive black women can be helplessly, sexually attracted to diminuative fuzzy hairballs with Elvis Presley sideburns, a Bozo the Clown haircut and the appearance of one who rarely bathes...when they can be written as tongue-kissing the animal mouth of a white male mutant...even in view of this, there is no possibility that a character like the Black Swan could be attracted to a warrior king like the Black Panther.

That War on you was epic man. I read that stuff on CBR and Newsarama and its the reason I started posting.

Yes, that's it. T'challa is a warrior King, and probably the richest man on earth. The fact that guys like Namor, Thor have multiple love interest and even Captain America--Steve Rogers is smashing Sharon Carter, and hints of Scarlet Witch...but T'challa doesn't have woman after him is suspect. Instead, they got him pinning after Storm (Aaron does). When Aaron did have woman after him, they looked like caricatures. Smh

You pointed out one reason why I liked the prospect swan and even hinted at the other. The other is she is the leading lady in New Avengers. A book with basically all guys. Swan picking T'challa and rejecting Namor and Tony would be funny as hell. She already shat on Strange and Beast.

I see her as a Catwoman type. Last I checked, Batman isn't with Catwoman. But she's a interest. He should have woman after him.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 08:26:16 am
^^^^^you get it Sin. That's exactly it. I agree with all this. I'm not pining for Storm. She's going to have to make it on her own now. No way T'challa should be chasing after her while she's screwing Logan. But that's what some fans would have.

A friend of mine and I once talked about the possibility of his reestablishing a romantic relationship with his ex-wife whom he seemed to still be on good terms with. Paraphrasing his response to my question if a reconciliation was possible, he said: "I love her. She's a good person...but too many trains have been through that roundhouse since my last visit." There is no doubt that the "hairball express" has been through Ororo's roundhouse, seemingly written as her defiant rejection of her ex-husband. Who knows how many times the "hairball express" will take a spin on her turntable. Who knows how many other trains will pass through her roundhouse and take a ride.

Before the late, great Anwar Sadat could sit at the peace table with Israel, he had to make at least one more act of war against that nation. It was important to Sadat that Israel be made to understand they were making peace with a man, with a leader of his nation...ready to sue for peace, but unbowed. IMO, the time has come that T'Challa - after having put a hellacious beating on Namor - be involved in a protracted intimate relationship with another woman. If it's Black Swan...cool. Since Marvel seems unwilling to pair black male characters with black female characters (they've got the black male character with white male character covered), T'Challa's love interest might as well be a white woman...an ATTRACTIVE white woman. T'Challa has to "get his groove back"....or claim a "groove" he was rarely written as having.

Once this relationship comes to an end and Storm is written as being free of her compulsion to wear mohawk haircuts and leather like some Hell's Angels biker chick, when she is written as having overcome her weakness to submit to the lustful advances of ugly, hairy, white males...once Ororo is written as genuinely contrite for the transgressions committed against Wakanda while under the pen of the seX-Men writers and once more becomes the Ororo of Reginald Hudlin, I could see a way for the reunification of the Wakandan Royal Couple.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 08:29:44 am
And apparently you didn't know Storm "flavor" either.

([url]http://imageshack.us/scaled/landing/203/3523859881e31af041e1o.jpg[/url])
Sip it? Lol

She steady getting hair cuts in the danger room and no desk.


ROFLMAO!!!! Masterful!

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 08:54:07 am
Where is that Django Unchained spirt?


(The D is silent)


Storm has been kidnapped to Candyland and she needs rescuing!


So Seven... When you took the cover into the bathroom was she all that you hoped her to be? ;)


We are all family here... Share your conquest stories with the rest of us!


Anywho...


I'm going to the Black Business Expo either tomorrow or Saturday and hopefully I can have Hickman sign my... Oh snap that's right Marvel really does not actually market to black people directly so yes Vic a solo comic would fail if all it relied on was the white male sales!


Carry on...

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 09:00:10 am
Uh, so I forget....what exactly does all this have to do with the New Avengers anyway?

Nothing. Just a bunch of dudes having a long-winded circle jerk. Storm sucks - never mind that SHE was one who was sh*t on from the time Maberry picked up a pen to T'Challa dumping her ass to now. Storm is a whore - God forbid a single woman have sex. Hooray for white pussy - it smells like lemon Pledge and tastes like the sweetest wine from Seville - even though she murdered scores of Wakandan children. Wah wah wah why is T'Challa pining for a woman he has loved (and vice-versa) for nearly 20 years? Blah blah blah blah BLAH.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 09:47:27 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.


Well, she might as well not be wearing anything at all since she's supposed to be some sort f exotic primal woman fetish figure within the X-universe.

I suddenly remember the seX-Men issue in which Jean Grey found it necessary to explain to a naked Ororo that it just wasn't proper to walk around the mansion while nude. Ororo seemed bemused, wondering why clothing could somehow be necessary. Jean took her shopping. How is it that an adult Ororo had never in her life grasped the concept of the need to wear clothes? Was it Claremont's assertion or belief that African people go about naked all the time? Given this instance in Storm's "written history", I might believe that Ororo was being sh*t on long before Hudlin or anyone else touched her.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 10:45:01 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.


Well, she might as well not be wearing anything at all since she's supposed to be some sort f exotic primal woman fetish figure within the X-universe.


I suddenly remember the seX-Men issue in which Jean Grey found it necessary to explain to a naked Ororo that it just wasn't proper to walk around the mansion while nude. Ororo seemed bemused, wondering why clothing could somehow be necessary. Jean took her shopping. How is it that an adult Ororo had never in her life grasped the concept of the need to wear clothes? Was it Claremont's assertion or belief that African people go about naked all the time? Given this instance in Storm's "written history", I might believe that Ororo was being sh*t on long before Hudlin or anyone else touched her.


(http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/X-TremeX-Men38-10.jpg)
Black Power? :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 11:16:26 am
Hey I just noticed she didn't have on pants either. It doesn't look like she even has no panties or bikini bottoms.


Well, she might as well not be wearing anything at all since she's supposed to be some sort f exotic primal woman fetish figure within the X-universe.


I suddenly remember the seX-Men issue in which Jean Grey found it necessary to explain to a naked Ororo that it just wasn't proper to walk around the mansion while nude. Ororo seemed bemused, wondering why clothing could somehow be necessary. Jean took her shopping. How is it that an adult Ororo had never in her life grasped the concept of the need to wear clothes? Was it Claremont's assertion or belief that African people go about naked all the time? Given this instance in Storm's "written history", I might believe that Ororo was being sh*t on long before Hudlin or anyone else touched her.


([url]http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o296/justinkos91/X-TremeX-Men38-10.jpg[/url])
Black Power? :)


I believe this is the same issue in which Claremont - Storm writer par excellence  ::) - demonstrates his singular facility in bringing out Ororo's truest essence by having her imprisoned, chained in a cell, helpless...desperately wanting to be free and unable to gain that freedom.

I don't hate Storm. I love the character. I loved Storm with T'Challa, their union blessed by the Panther god and ruling majestically over mighty Wakanda. I would have preferred a more abbreviated period of mistrust, dislike, jealousy, and xenophobic prejudice of the Wakandan citizen toward their new Queen. I'd have rather had them love her at the outset. I would have presented as few cracks and fissures in the relationship between Storm and the Panther and between the Royals and the Wakandans, so that the seX-Men franchise and its fanatics would have few if any weaknesses to exploit.

Unfortunately, it appears the ill will exhibited by"absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" and the fact that they were successfully able to express their disdain for the MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY financially, they were able to bring about the result they desired. The Marriage is no more. Ororo is once again their mohawk-coiffed-ho and the seX-Men writers like vultures on carrion, are attempting to pick the bones of the Black Panther by attempting to destroy his image in their books.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 11:17:39 am
Maxine says that you cats is standing in a circle looking down over a B-Swizzy pic like the cover of the NWA album Straight Out of Compton (Or Cumpton') ready to discharge your weapons! ::)


What say you? ???
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 11:21:16 am
Maxine says that you cats is standing in a circle looking down over a B-Swizzy pic like the cover of the NWA album Straight Out of Compton (Or Cumpton') ready to discharge your weapons! ::)


What say you? ???

Bless her heart.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 11:59:42 am
Let me get this straight. T'challa should be pinning after someone who:
Called out your husbands manhood to your friends.
Have sex while you are married and then hides it from him.
Flirts and allows the man you are now sleeping with to kiss you on the neck.
Walk out on your husband in a meeting about saving the world, frak him and Wakanda.
Attack your Husband with a strike force with a Nazi at the command of another man.
Lie that your husband hit, beat and knocked you out..when she was the aggressor throwing blows.
Throw your ring in the dirt, in front of Wakandan citizens who are looking like WTF.
Turned your back on Wakanda, when you had the power to make a difference. Not scores (three) but thousands of Wakandan blood are on her hands.
Act stupid when you wonder why he's dropping your ass.
Runs to the first piece of "white" meat she can find :D get a her cut, a "job promotion", a title and no desk.

So the prospect that T'challa gets "white pussy"(she looks like Storm with white skin) means we are jerking off. But Storm jumping Logan at first chance for a job, a cut and no desk..it's because she is single? Lol.

Incredible.

Yeah Swan smoked three Wakandan characters, who were created to die and who didn't listen to T'challa orders when he said "wait here". She also saved the freaking universe and might have not if they stopped her. T'challa almost did stop her. The other earth was about to hit and so she also saved millions of Wakandans, T'challa--and earth too. What happened in the book actually matters.

Storm is where most of her fans want her. I wish her the best there. But I don't see the difference. He's single too. Right? Or is perry-fever taken over?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 23, 2013, 12:01:23 pm

Im noticing this seX-Men type of responses. Is it just me or did one of the issues of Black Panther by Hudlin kinda took a jab at this “sex” thing about them?

Oh yea and another thing. Didn’t BP you know lied and hid from Storm too with all of his “Doras” where they would say “beloved” all the time? Wasn’t there some nanobytes placed in her without her permission?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 12:05:31 pm
Im noticing this seX-Men type of responses. Is it just me or did one of the issues of Black Panther by Hudlin kinda took a jab at this “sex” thing about them?

Yes. I thought the same. The "great" Storm writer Chris Claremont was into S&M, Storm was is biggest subject. If you read his stuff it was a common theme and its well documented. Hudlin was doing Storm a solid. "Forced", "rushed" or not.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 12:10:09 pm
Im noticing this seX-Men type of responses. Is it just me or did one of the issues of Black Panther by Hudlin kinda took a jab at this “sex” thing about them?

Nope. The seX-Men is a creation of my making. It is a device I've chosen to illustrate what must surely be clear for all to see. Long before Hudlin's so-called "jab" at them in the F4 book, I had been posting that if not for the heavy reliance on sexual innuendo and gratuitous sexual encounters peppering their books, there were no stories about those mutants that could be told. They had run out of ideas.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 12:10:43 pm
Yeah, he hit his army. Because Doom had nanites cams in everyone except Shuri and T'challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 12:12:03 pm
Im noticing this seX-Men type of responses. Is it just me or did one of the issues of Black Panther by Hudlin kinda took a jab at this “sex” thing about them?

Nope. The seX-Men is a creation of my making. It is a device I've chosen to illustrate what must surely be clear for all to see. Long before Hudlin's so-called "jab" at them in the F4 book, I had been posting that if not for the heavy reliance on sexual innuendo and gratuitous sexual encounters peppering their books, there were no stories about those mutants that could be told. They had run out of ideas.

Interesting. It's the truth. Look at WATXM #24. I will never get it's point.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2013, 12:34:41 pm
Besides Luke, other other black men are pretty much sexless. T'challa for example, was off in Hell Kitchen doing nothing, Storm was with Logan getting kissed on the neck, or screwed in alternate reality by Namor. Lmao. Isn't that ish crazy? Falcon or Rhodey nothing. Voodoo had Monica R. And was killed off. The black X-boys don't get no play. Ironfist had Misty. Frenzy and M are white men (Frenzy likes Scott) M strong guy (frak Darwin).

Smh


It's not just Marvel Comics either.

Ororo Munroe is essentially written as barely able to keep her clothes on and her thighs closed when in the presence of lustful white male mutants...or Dracula...or blue-skinned extradimensional tyrants...or...well, you all get the picture.

Wonder Woman is a different story:

http://www.comicvine.com/trevor-barnes/4005-10881/ (http://www.comicvine.com/trevor-barnes/4005-10881/)

And guess what? You won't believe this. The brutha dead.

White writers don't play that when it comes to black men getting with Wonder Woman.

T'Challa is singing like the late, great Teddy Pendergrass..."Love TKO", while congratulating Monica Lynne and Kevin Trueblood on their engagement and pining for an ex-wife who even while married, flirted shamelessly with the troll.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 23, 2013, 12:48:47 pm
ISN'T MYSTIQUE SUPPOSED TO BE A LESBIAN BTW?!

Off topic and random but Mystique is a woman who's sexuality basically flip flops on whatever the current hot x-writer at the time feels, one minute she's a over protective mother for Rogue who at the same time will basically throw her vagina at whoever catches it and then will casually drop that she digs women and then is back to throwing that vagina at any male with a X
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 12:51:55 pm
Oh yea and another thing. Didn’t BP you know lied and hid from Storm too with all of his “Doras” where they would say “beloved” all the time? Wasn’t there some nanobytes placed in her without her permission?

Let's not let something as insignificant as truth f*ck up the Snow Bunny Squad!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 23, 2013, 01:17:53 pm
Let me get this straight. T'challa should be pinning after someone who:
Called out your husbands manhood to your friends.
Have sex while you are married and then hides it from him.
Flirts and allows the man you are now sleeping with to kiss you on the neck.
Walk out on your husband in a meeting about saving the world, frak him and Wakanda.
Attack your Husband with a strike force with a Nazi at the command of another man.
Lie that your husband hit, beat and knocked you out..when she was the aggressor throwing blows.
Throw your ring in the dirt, in front of Wakandan citizens who are looking like WTF.
Turned your back on Wakanda, when you had the power to make a difference. Not scores (three) but thousands of Wakandan blood are on her hands.
Act stupid when you wonder why he's dropping your ass.
Runs to the first piece of "white" meat she can find :D get a her cut, a "job promotion", a title and no desk.

So the prospect that T'challa gets "white pussy"(she looks like Storm with white skin) means we are jerking off. But Storm jumping Logan at first chance for a job, a cut and no desk..it's because she is single? Lol.

Incredible.

Yeah Swan smoked three Wakandan characters, who were created to die and who didn't listen to T'challa orders when he said "wait here". She also saved the freaking universe and might have not if they stopped her. T'challa almost did stop her. The other earth was about to hit and so she also saved millions of Wakandans, T'challa--and earth too. What happened in the book actually matters.

Storm is where most of her fans want her. I wish her the best there. But I don't see the difference. He's single too. Right? Or is perry-fever taken over?


I think the point would be to recognize that if they are both single, by definition they can both more or less do whatever they want to.

Yes, it was a bad look Storm attacking BP in front of the populace. But it's also a bad look for her to be excluded from most affairs of state.
Now Storm knew she was marrying a machavellian plotter from the jump, but it would still be an issue (and Reg's version of the character
was a pretty straight forward dude).

Couple that with the fact that a faction of the populace pretty much, threw her in a cell the first chance it got, so Storm might very well not give a damn about thier reaction to stuff. 

She would however, very much care about the Queen Mom's take and the fact that they don't get a single scene together is how you know that Marvel doesn't care about Storm's character development. 

No convo with her closest ally in Wakanda? Bah, only Xcharacters matter to Xfans, and only the ones that are on Cyke's side to boot.

So T'Challa comes of as selfish and aloof and Storm is effectively a traitor.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 01:35:54 pm
Listen Flex, nothing is being dangled. Nothing at all. There is no suggestion that it will even occur. And Who cares. If you are a racist or a bigoted then I guess so--but I don't care.

You are pining after who, According to Marvel isn't really black, but all races combined, a character that only screws white men  and has her entire history until very recent and yet you put her up on a pedestal on like a simp on some cockiod ish.  You really want to talk about a Black women, then put him with a black woman, not one with white hair, blue eyes and caucasian features with minimal deveoplent as being African but is instead considered more mutant--then as representive of a Black woman? GTFOH.

There was never a power couple. Lol. Open your eyes. The X-office ignored, sabatoged and destroyed it from the start and you still holding your hand out.

And you talking when you hate on Shuri? A black female character who's race isn't obscured at all Wishing that she's killed, yet pine after Storm? Lmao. Please spare me.

So much frak'ing win in this post.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 01:39:13 pm
So Seven...


Are you Eazy E. or MC Ren in the photo? ;D


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N.W.A.StraightOuttaComptonalbumcover.jpg (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N.W.A.StraightOuttaComptonalbumcover.jpg)


Wakandans With Attitude!





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 01:54:53 pm
Oh yea and another thing. Didn’t BP you know lied and hid from Storm too with all of his “Doras” where they would say “beloved” all the time? Wasn’t there some nanobytes placed in her without her permission?

Let's not let something as insignificant as truth f*ck up the Snow Bunny Squad!

That's really dependent on what constitutes as being the "truth" doesn't it.

I'm nether a racist or a bigot so I know what my truth is.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 01:58:37 pm
"Snow Bunny" Squad vs. the Tyler Perry's Uncle Rukus crew.  :)

So, Okoye is a "Snow Bunny"? Smh.
http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=10373.0 (http://hudlinentertainment.com/smf/index.php?topic=10373.0)

Oh, same lame insults instead of actually making a point.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/130854/2515524-rolo_kiss_uncannyannual11.jpg)

But this ok right? f*ck outta here.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 02:01:18 pm
Oh yea and another thing. Didn’t BP you know lied and hid from Storm too with all of his “Doras” where they would say “beloved” all the time? Wasn’t there some nanobytes placed in her without her permission?

Let's not let something as insignificant as truth f*ck up the Snow Bunny Squad!

That's really dependent on what constitutes as being the "truth" doesn't it.

I'm nether a racist or a bigot so I know what my truth is.

The same. For some reason you got cats invoking Doomwar, yet that pales in comparison to anything I mentioned.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 02:03:25 pm
So Seven...


Are you Eazy E. or MC Ren in the photo? ;D


[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N.W.A.StraightOuttaComptonalbumcover.jpg[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:N.W.A.StraightOuttaComptonalbumcover.jpg[/url])


Wakandans With Attitude!


How about you play them all? Lol you can Z-brush yourself and other copies.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 23, 2013, 02:04:56 pm
(http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/f/f3/Fanserviceftw_7538_Obvious_troll_is_obvious.jpg)

BTW so how is the current issue of NA so far?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 02:09:16 pm
Next Week. The preview is out right now.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 02:35:26 pm
Uh, so I forget....what exactly does all this have to do with the New Avengers anyway?

Nothing. Just a bunch of dudes having a long-winded circle jerk. Storm sucks - never mind that SHE was one who was sh*t on from the time Maberry picked up a pen to T'Challa dumping her ass to now. Storm is a whore - God forbid a single woman have sex. Hooray for white pussy - it smells like lemon Pledge and tastes like the sweetest wine from Seville - even though she murdered scores of Wakandan children. Wah wah wah why is T'Challa pining for a woman he has loved (and vice-versa) for nearly 20 years? Blah blah blah blah BLAH.

Storm was shat upon from the time Chris Claremont crafted her as some sort of exotic oddity with flowing white hair and blue eyes complete with near feline pupils so don't hate on Maberry for merely following in the footsteps of the "mighty" Claremont who also loved to have Ororo all chained up and irrelevant to the metaplot.

But hey, stay continue spitting your ignorance and bile if it helps settle your belly.

You'd prefer an emasculated and cuckolded T'Challa, begging the woman who threw his ring in the dirt after laying hands on him in violence to a T'Challa confirmed in his strength and unhindered greatness leading the Illuminati into battle against a real threat with the enigmatic Yabbat Ummon Tarru doing what she do?

GTFOH with that noise.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 02:51:56 pm
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4172/23191191486701secondcom.jpg)
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2676662-lol.jpg)

Lmao. Smh. Yeah, this has Maberry written all over it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 02:56:07 pm
But this ok right? f*ck outta here.

What a ho, kissing some dude...20 years before she got married. The slut shaming going around here is predictable, but disappointing nonetheless. "Man, f*ck that bitch! WHERE DA WHITE WIMMEN AT!?!?"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 02:57:07 pm
Maj versus Maxine?


Get em Boo! :)


The Hatorade shade thrown at Storm has cats forgetting how open they were about her just a few years ago and now they are throwing all her dirty laundry out there on some serious Butt Hurt!


Next will come bonfires of old X-men issues on some Waiting to Exhale Love's Heartache The Male Version hissy fits!


This is classic...


http://youtu.be/ZGwV4mrOCJo (http://youtu.be/ZGwV4mrOCJo)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 03:04:27 pm
Maj versus Maxine?


Get em Boo! :)


The Hatorade shade thrown at Storm has cats forgetting how open they were about her just a few years ago and now they are throwing all her dirty laundry out there on some serious Butt Hurt!


Next will come bonfires of old X-men issues on some Waiting to Exhale Love's Heartache The Male Version hissy fits!


This is classic...

This coming from the dude who talks a gang of braggadocious sh*t in the BP Discussion thread whilst tap dancing like a mofo in the Storm appreciation thread over at CBR.

The one note joke that no one laughs with but everyone laughs at.

Yeah, that dude. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 03:14:57 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/wVbVfgZ.jpg)

Ya, Storm has always been written with respect.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrj0aaWV0o1qkz9yno1_500.jpg)

 :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 03:20:10 pm
Maj versus Maxine?


Get em Boo! :)


The Hatorade shade thrown at Storm has cats forgetting how open they were about her just a few years ago and now they are throwing all her dirty laundry out there on some serious Butt Hurt!


Next will come bonfires of old X-men issues on some Waiting to Exhale Love's Heartache The Male Version hissy fits!


This is classic...

This coming from the dude who talks a gang of braggadocious sh*t in the BP Discussion thread whilst tap dancing like a mofo in the Storm appreciation thread over at CBR.

The one note joke that no one laughs with but everyone laughs at.

Yeah, that dude. :smh:

Only ones butt Hurt are the ones pinning. He's not with Storm, and if its up to the X-office it will never occur again.

That fact that you have to attack someones opinion or ship  with the race card says it all. Dudes be mum about Storm being white dudes but mad if T'challa gets one. That's why I'm bring it up.

Lol.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 23, 2013, 03:33:19 pm
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4172/23191191486701secondcom.jpg)

The x-office retcons their stuff quicker then DC does with Batman's nu52 history
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 03:34:43 pm
Maj versus Maxine?


Get em Boo! :)


The Hatorade shade thrown at Storm has cats forgetting how open they were about her just a few years ago and now they are throwing all her dirty laundry out there on some serious Butt Hurt!


Next will come bonfires of old X-men issues on some Waiting to Exhale Love's Heartache The Male Version hissy fits!


This is classic...

This coming from the dude who talks a gang of braggadocious sh*t in the BP Discussion thread whilst tap dancing like a mofo in the Storm appreciation thread over at CBR.

The one note joke that no one laughs with but everyone laughs at.

Yeah, that dude. :smh:

Only ones butt Hurt are the ones pinning. He's not with Storm, and if its up to the X-office it will never occur again.

That fact that you have to attack someones opinion or ship  with the race card says it all. Dudes be mum about Storm being white dudes but mad if T'challa gets one. That's why I'm bring it up.

Lol.

I kind of noticed this about this Flex clown.

He loves to question other peoples "blackness" as if he's some sort of bastion of African racial purity himself.

Like you pointed out earlier, Flex has been advocating Shuri's death for the longest.

Now he wants to start acting all concerned for poor O'Oreo.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 03:36:55 pm
Maj putting me on blast I'm loving it! ;D


Because you are still Butt Hurt over the cousin situation now you claim I'm doing the NTBM in the Storm thread!


OMG... WOW!


The fact that you punked out in the Hickman Q and A thread while I went all in already speaks volume and then you tried to make up for it with the Cup of Joe thread that nobody hardly responds to is classic!


Come on we know that I really bring the Chaos and you catch my table scraps later... CBR shows me wildin' out at the Black Panel stalking Reggie and them but I never see you repping anywhere but CBR and of course here where you threw Mr. Hudlin under the bus and tried to backtrack later!


Didn't see you at blacksuperhero.com, blacksciencefictionsociety.com, ECBAC, Black Sci-fi or even tomorrow at the Black Business Expo... You still black right?


Your claim to fame is that you bring the Chaos and yet I'm all up in the actual photos like Where's Waldo! ;)


Matter of fact I even started a Wonder Woman movie thread at CBR because I'm not afraid to take chances and experiment beyond the standard issue border comfort zone!


I have a Storm statue along with my 4 Black Panther statues to match my 40+ issues of Hudlin's run to show my support for the character no matter how ridiculous the Franbratti make her look!


Django Unchained says I should infiltrate carefully and get my Boo back!


Now get back to CBR so that I can TROLL you some more Mr. Eko! :)



P.S. You still want Jenn/Euphoria back now at CBR or are the bridges burned there too over B-Swizzy?


(Yeah I'm a TROLL... Totally Ruling On-Line Linguistics) ::)






Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 03:37:21 pm
([url]http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/4172/23191191486701secondcom.jpg[/url])

The x-office retcons their stuff quicker then DC does with Batman's nu52 history


That's what incestuous writing does.

It f*cks its siblings with impunity until the bastard offspring that drop are twisted abominations shunned by all but the most depraved seX-Men.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Battle on May 23, 2013, 03:51:01 pm
"Man, f*ck that bitch! WHERE DA WHITE WIMMEN AT!?!?"



(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w184/Battle-D/10mj2gm.jpg)

Over Here, Suga!   (http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/5.gif)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 03:52:36 pm
Mwahahaha! Messy-ass Battle.

And oh my GAAAAAAH Storm kissing a dude years and years before she was married! Where are my smelling salts!?!? Seriously, what the f*ck is this supposed to be proving?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 03:53:59 pm
Incestous?


Wolverine is a grown @$$... I mean a very short @$$ white man getting his berserker on! :D


They are not related by blood but by the X-gene!


You seriously need Dr. Phil on this one because the rash has spread to your cranial cells... Degeneration is a just a matter of time!


Double Standard... It's not okay for Storm to have sex with white men but it is okay for Black Panther to have sex with B-Swizzy because that's different!


Okaaaaaayyyyy...


What you have Maj is a case of the reverse Malcom X... Malcolm had the white women then went black militant you on the other hand are a black militant that went white woman crazy!


It's all good... A man wants what a man wants so get yours!


B-Swizzy Beyotches!!! 8)



I'm going to work now and train somebody I'll catch back up with this a few hours from now!







Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2013, 04:14:52 pm
Maj putting me on blast I'm loving it! ;D


Because you are still Butt Hurt over the cousin situation now you claim I'm doing the NTBM in the Storm thread!


OMG... WOW!


The fact that you punked out in the Hickman Q and A thread while I went all in already speaks volume and then you tried to make up for it with the Cup of Joe thread that nobody hardly responds to is classic!


Come on we know that I really bring the Chaos and you catch my table scraps later... CBR shows me wildin' out at the Black Panel stalking Reggie and them but I never see you repping anywhere but CBR and of course here where you threw Mr. Hudlin under the bus and tried to backtrack later!


Didn't see you at blacksuperhero.com, blacksciencefictionsociety.com, ECBAC, Black Sci-fi or even tomorrow at the Black Business Expo... You still black right?


Your claim to fame is that you bring the Chaos and yet I'm all up in the actual photos like Where's Waldo! ;)


Matter of fact I even started a Wonder Woman movie thread at CBR because I'm not afraid to take chances and experiment beyond the standard issue border comfort zone!


I have a Storm statue along with my 4 Black Panther statues to match my 40+ issues of Hudlin's run to show my support for the character no matter how ridiculous the Franbratti make her look!


Django Unchained says I should infiltrate carefully and get my Boo back!


Now get back to CBR so that I can TROLL you some more Mr. Eko! :)



P.S. You still want Jenn/Euphoria back now at CBR or are the bridges burned there too over B-Swizzy?


(Yeah I'm a TROLL... Totally Ruling On-Line Linguistics) ::)

Look at this braggodocious cur trying to come off all manly and sh*t.

What self respecting "black" man uses terms like Butt-hurt?

Why are you so obssessed with being butt-hurt?

Were you ass raped in a past life or something???

You stay boring heads to death with your lengthy epistles on CBR talking complete and utter sh*te for 99.9% of the time in the BP thread over in CBR with maybe 1% of your commentary being half way decent, and then seem to think that because you own a few Black Panther dolls that makes you the worlds foremost expert on all things Black Panther.

What a delusional chump.

Your not even fit to lick my shoes let alone those of my cousin but seem to think that your opinion on either one of us carries weight.

Crab ass trick has been advocating for the death of Shuri, a strong, African (albeit fictional) female almost non-stop over on CBR but now all of a sudden, you're an O'Oreo defender of the faith.

Talking about D'jango and sh*t where Dr Shultz was the main star of the f*cking movie while lame ass dick riders like yourself were satisfied with D'Jango peeling a few cracker caps and rescuing his wife who had almost zero lines in the movie.

Leonardo DiCaprio's character used D'jango's wife like a ho and yet it was Dr Shultz that got to kill DiCaprio's character and not D'Jango himself who was supposed to be the titular hero of the movie.

But of course, D'Jango gets to kill the Samuel L. Jackson HNIC character who was just another deluded slave playing his role in a f*cked up world.

GTFOH with that self serving bullsh*t.

The real revolution is in the mind and not dependent on the celluloid exploits of fantasy figures.

The true revolution lies in knowing that life is journey of self discovery where one learns a lot more by learning to listen rather than fill the air with empty rhetoric and bluster.

And the true revolution has nothing to do with attending a plethora of Black events as if that adds anything of worth to ones character.

Point man this, Point man that, Logo this, Logo that, Panther Lunch pail this, Panther Lunch Pa.........you get the picture.

Nobody really gives a flying f*ck about your completely irrelevant opinions on sh*t because you talk down to heads and never know when to shut the f*ck up.

No one elses opinion matters other than the almighty Flex (only in his own head) with his silly plonker stagger in full stride.

Unlike you, I don't have to proclaim my "blackness" as if my life depends on it.

I was born African and don't have to pretend to be one by marriage.

You're not built for this so stay in your lane or get turned into roadkill.

Eitherway, it makes no difference to me.

Onye nzuzu.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Battle on May 23, 2013, 05:09:27 pm
What self respecting "black" man uses terms like Butt-hurt?




From hanging around the starcraft II discussion forums too long...(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w184/Battle-D/HEFscII_01_zpsf94a0684.png)(http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/71.gif)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 23, 2013, 05:11:59 pm
What...in the f*ck...has this conversation turned to? Can we get some sort of word/character limit or something? SHEESH!!!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 23, 2013, 06:05:58 pm
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 23, 2013, 07:32:36 pm
Okay I'm back and...


Holy Cow Batman Maj has popped a cork! :)


The problem with your post is once again you threw Hudlin under the bus as producer of Django Unchained so what you need to do is apologize to our gracious host for posting your long soliloquy on whatever you really feel about Flex Hectic!


There is nothing wrong with saying "Butt Hurt" if it's true and you just proved that you are!


I am neither cussing you out nor really taking a mean spirited tone and had you dealt with me as a man from the get go instead of throwing shade my way for quite some time this would have been settled ASAP!


I sat back and watched you and your cousin throw shade at me and gave you pass after pass after pass before I went not all the way in but half way in and now you snapped!


You placed Hickman over Hudlin, B-Swizzy over Storm and then question my blackness?


C'mon son mind your manners with all that vulgarity it is soooo not polymathic!


We are having an intelligent discussion about the birds and the bees and you get all emotional and personal over some TROLL ish!


In the future let Flex be Flex as Flex has always been and respect mine and I will respect yours!


I'm a certified fanboy who carries his heart on his sleeve whether I'm at Comic-con stalking the Black Panel, wearing Black Panther t-shirts in front of my clients or catching Hudlin shoplifting at the grocery store without compromise! ;)


A while ago you were on the Flex Hectic bandwagon now that we are adversaries suddenly I am not worth anything?


I still like you Maj you just have to work on your manners from time to time and stop expecting someone to change for you and recognize when you are out of line and correct it!


All that keeping it real didn't even work for Malcolm X because no man can carry that kind of weight without losing control at some point like you just did it's not normal for any human to do so that's why they have Disneyland to ease the pain!


Get to the nearest roller coaster and throw your hands up at the first loop to loop and let go and then get back in line and ride this mean spirit out of your system until it is gone completely!


I expect better from you than this... Other do to!


Let's try again more civilly this time...













Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 23, 2013, 08:05:01 pm
Seriously, what the hell happened to this discussion?

Can't you guys handle this feud via PMs?  On one of the forums?


But seriously, to take a cue from RedJack, this is what happens when we all pick for scraps.  Marvel and DC just isn't where it's at when it comes to true diversity and racial agency.

Kinda sick of watching us fight like this when we could be searching for better. 
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 23, 2013, 11:45:33 pm
Wow...seriously people? I always thought this place was better than this, it has been long time since I've seen roads this low walked.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 02:12:03 am
Ture has correctly analyzed the symptoms and diagnosed the disease:

I despise the fact that some X-writers and their editors have made Storm so unappealing to some of her fans and most specifically those fans of the Black Panther and supporters of the marriage.

It seems that they are engaging rather masterfully in the long practiced, often cherished art of divide and conquer separate and rule. A juxtaposition of comic book fiction and reality or more specifically Storm and so called "Black" people reveals some interesting foibles.

Storm is made to choose between the following:

Wakanda or New York
Tchalla's reality or Xavier's dream 
queen of a nation or headmistress of a school 
beloved wife or fetish fantasy

So called "Black" people had similar choices to make:

a Quilombo or a plantation
historically black colleges and universities or white mainstream universities and colleges 
the negro league or the national league
Afra-centric perspective or Euro-centric perspective

White super heroes for the most part didn't give a damn about the challenges of "Black" inner city life, apartheid South Africa or the Katrina tragedy. But some "Blacks fans loved them all the same.

Because the very necessary details and nuances of life in Wakanda are not as apparent (often needing to be perceived off panel) as those of reality based Marvel universe New York, it can be misconstrued as less attractive or desirable. The concept of an unconquered, culturally intact Afrakan nation is obscure to many and even offensive to some.

The issue of Storm bifurcates into the intrinsic in story occurrences and the extrinsic interpretive experience of the reader. In story their behaviors just don't make sense to me post Hudlin but if events are to be seen as canonical then the lack of desire and interest Tchalla should have in all things concerning Ororo as voiced by some Black Panther fans warrants some merit.

As a reader of  certain persuasions (cultural, social,political beliefs) I fundamentally see the absence of joint adventures, the annulment of the marriage the physical altercation between the two of them whether intentional or not as a deconstructive, negative statement on "Black" couples, "Black" marriage, "Black" men and "Black" women. In this case I hold the writer responsible and not the character.

Storm's "whorish" behavior isn't the fault of the character nor are any of we at fault - those pro and con as to whether or not T'Challa and the white-skinned Black Swan should be written as evolving into friends and eventually, lovers.

The way Storm has been written as being a ready piece of arse for logan, gambit and any other white, red, or blue male character audacious enough to grab her unresisting frame and plant a big wet one on her lips reflects on the white men who have written her character, those same white men who now seek to attempt to emasculate the Black Panther (and other black male characters), by depicting them as eunuchs or killing them off before any romance with a female can be consumated.

Don't think for one moment that if a seX-Men writer reads or has ever read this forum or threads on other forums discussing this particular topic, the devil isn't getting his jollies. Black T'Challa and black Ororo are no longer living in wedded bliss much to the delight of seX-Men fans while a black man savors the wedded bliss denied to a black male and a black female, with his white husband.

So it is with the damned seX-Men.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 24, 2013, 02:50:01 am


The problem with your post is once again you threw Hudlin under the bus as producer of Django Unchained so what you need to do is apologize to our gracious host for posting your long soliloquy on whatever you really feel about Flex Hectic!

Does any of the sh*t you've typed here change the fact that Dr Shultz had the majority of the cool lines and clearly defined characteristics one would normally associate with the titular hero of a movie titled D'Jango?

Of course not, but since you're the kind of cat who chooses image over substance you would of course endorse a movie where the supposed hero was led by the hand by the white guy through almost 90% of the movie.

What Mr Hudlin's having produced the movie has to do with anyything is beyond me but as usual you stay trying to play the race card whilst exposing more of your bitch ass.


There is nothing wrong with saying "Butt Hurt" if it's true and you just proved that you are!

But of course, when you get anally traumatised and spazz out on some misdirectional bullsh*t it's all copacetic.

Stick a tampon in your gob and choke on it.


I am neither cussing you out nor really taking a mean spirited tone and had you dealt with me as a man from the get go instead of throwing shade my way for quite some time this would have been settled ASAP!

You like to make out that you're this honorable cat who does no wrong only to get unwarranted shade your way when you are in fact, one of the worst shade throwers posting either here or on the CBR.

You've exposed yourself on numerous occasions to be someone who can't handle it when he get's called out of his comfort zone but then try to pull the ultimate role reversal by trying to question the integrity of anyone who straight dismantles your idiotic arguments and self aggrandizing boasts of unasailable superiority.


I sat back and watched you and your cousin throw shade at me and gave you pass after pass after pass before I went not all the way in but half way in and now you snapped!

Yet you remain silent when posters on the X-board tell your tap dancing minstral ass to shut the f*ck up only for you to come back onto the BP appreciation threads endorsing the trollish behaviour of some of the most insidious X-trolls.

I see how that works.

Utterly bitch made on all fronts.

You placed Hickman over Hudlin, B-Swizzy over Storm and then question my blackness?

Dude, you're the one hung up on race and a false sense of warped entitlement but it's cool.

Stay making your usual attrempts at misdirection and utterly false accusations that never stand up to honest scrutiny if it makes you feel better about yourself.


C'mon son mind your manners with all that vulgarity it is soooo not polymathic!

Ummm, f*ck you and your wannabe polymathic rancid carcass.


We are having an intelligent discussion about the birds and the bees and you get all emotional and personal over some TROLL ish!

If making nonsensical baiting posts is what constitutes as being intelligent discussion to you then you're obviously even more deluded than I thought. :smh:


I'm a certified fanboy who carries his heart on his sleeve whether I'm at Comic-con stalking the Black Panel, wearing Black Panther t-shirts in front of my clients or catching Hudlin shoplifting at the grocery store without compromise!

Does that make you any less of an arsehole?

A while ago you were on the Flex Hectic bandwagon now that we are adversaries suddenly I am not worth anything?

The minute you showed your true Benedict Arnold colors you proved that yourself.


I still like you Maj you just have to work on your manners from time to time and stop expecting someone to change for you and recognize when you are out of line and correct it!

I could care less what you like or don't like at this point so just f*ck off with your Judas humility.

All that keeping it real didn't even work for Malcolm X because no man can carry that kind of weight without losing control at some point like you just did it's not normal for any human to do so that's why they have Disneyland to ease the pain!

So you're throwing Malcolm X under the bus now?

It's not normal for any human being to spout the amount of misdirectionally innacurate bullsh*t that you do but you continue regardless.

I expect better from you than this... Other do to!

I could could care less about what you or anyone expect.

Let's try again more civilly this time...

I have no interest in holding any further discourse with you in this forum or on CBR where I actually have you on Ignore.

We're done.

Permanently.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 24, 2013, 04:14:47 am
Shaw, Storm has been around since 1975 and has been exclusively involved with non-black men. You were ok with that. You were mum. Yet you try to call out others about Black Swan. That beyond hypocritical. You have no high ground to challenge anything.


When all else fails, just make up sh*t.

Can't you guys handle this feud via PMs?  On one of the forums?


(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d126/brazzos6/threadlock.jpg)

One thing I'm "happy" to see is that Storm is being depicted as being angry and upset, at least inwardly. She has every right to be. I'm glad they're not going with that "emotionless strong black woman" bullsh*t. And as much as the "where-da-white-wimmen-at" crew would like to see it, I'm glad to see that T'Challa is at least upset as well. Again, he has every right to be. That's what normal people do. The longing and pining sh*t, however, I can do without. 

I think Storm needs a foot up her ass. I think T'Challa needs a foot up his ass. I think all the Marvel writers involved with this character assassination need 50 feet up their asses. But they need to have it out together. I don't think you can just walk away from a marriage abruptly and never acknowledge it again. That's not realistic, especially since Storm is ex-royalty. She'll have paps on her ass for years to come.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 24, 2013, 06:03:06 am
There is a statement, that seems to be proving true:  the only thing worse than a married superhero is a divorced superhero.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 24, 2013, 07:08:49 am
One quick retcon and all this didn't happen like Bobby Ewing waking up on Dallas! ;D


This is comics so a new set of "Architects" and the relationship could be back on with the slate wiped clear!


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 08:07:13 am
    Flex that's straight up BS. You are the one with the problem bro. You the one co-signing and also questioning people blackness because some fans ship Black Swan...a middle eastern woman. Sumerian isn't even white, yet that is the card you try to play. If you want to have a debate and use actual educated based information, Sumer was in the heart of Iraqi. But let's be ignorant and uneducated about geography and history--that's cool. Even drawn the way she is...she's no different then Forge or any of her lovers and you was good with that. She's basically a white skinned Storm.
Substitute M for Black Swan. How many of those opposed to T'Challa being written as becoming involved with that scrumptuouswhitewomanBlackSwan, yummy  ;D would not be if M were positioned to become the next Queen of Almighty Wakanda? "But M ain't white: she black!" >:(  I see. I suggest those who believe this to be true, go to cbr's seX-Men forum, tell them M is black and see how fast they are deluged by a furious flood of denials of such being the case driven by unbalanced hormonal hysteria and not-so-closeted racism. The "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" who lives in that den of nasty attitude and nastier thoughts will waste no time informing that person of the seX-Men truth. M isn't black. M's mother isn't black and neither is her father in his original incarnation. Any racial retcon be damned...damnit! M's father is not black; he's white and his gate swings both ways. The latter not being necessarily true, but knowing how some of them roll, I would not be surprised to see him described that way. Black Swan is white. She's everything Seven and Salustrade says she is. If written such, she would be a worthy companion for King T'Challa, the Black Panther.

Quote
Shaw, Storm has been around since 1975 and has been exclusively involved with non-black men. You were ok with that. You were mum. Yet you try to call out others about Black Swan. That beyond hypocritical. You have no high ground to challenge anything.

Say on, Seven! In fact, before Bishop and T'Challa, the only black man Ororo encountered was a pimp. He made the mistake of trying to hit on Ororo. She created a mini thunderstorm over his head, drenching him in the process. Had that black pimp been wolverine, she'd have likely and immediately assumed the suitable female position for missionary coitus and prepared to receive his attentions right there on that public thoroughfare. Again, Storm's whoring is a direct reflection of the writers of her character, not the character herself. I've no doubt that if given the choice and the ability to do so of her own will, Ororo would choose T'Challa over weasel man 100% of the time and would incinerate that troll for daring to lay hands on her regal person.

I think Storm needs a foot up her ass. 

No doubt you'd find a seX-Men writer and seX-Men fans who would agree with you. Although they'd probably fist her first. seX-Men and kinky go together like sh*t and stinky.[/list]
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 08:17:51 am
One thing I'm "happy" to see is that Storm is being depicted as being angry and upset, at least inwardly. She has every right to be. I'm glad they're not going with that "emotionless strong black woman" bullsh*t. And as much as the "where-da-white-wimmen-at" crew would like to see it, I'm glad to see that T'Challa is at least upset as well. Again, he has every right to be. That's what normal people do. The longing and pining sh*t, however, I can do without.


Storm is being depicted as being angry, upset, and a ho who sits in a potty chair looking bored as hell while her new king sits at the big desk, lording over her and everybody else. T'Challa on the other hand remains the target of seX-Men writers and fans determined to see him completely emasculated.

The "where-da-white-wimmin-at" crew is it? Well then...let me sit my black arse in this here blazing saddle, put on my 10 gallon hat and you all can just call me Cleavon Little. If we have to endure beautiful black women being sexed by a troll, a nasty red-eyed, stubbly-faced, trenchcoat-wearing-Japanese-Anime-cartoon-haircut-having mucky swamp rat...if we have to endure beautiful black women engaged in a romance that essentially qualifies as beastiality, I'm down with T'Challa romancing a gorgeous, simply gorgeous white woman who's vagina smells of Lemon Pledge and ... you know the rest because you said it.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Blanks on May 24, 2013, 08:41:44 am
Yum. Lemony.

Wait, what I meant was... Dammit. Nevermind, lol.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 24, 2013, 08:45:25 am
How many men does a woman have to sleep with to actually qualify as a whore?


Even if Storm slept with more white men than black men how does that make her a whore?


In an early arc of Hudlin's T'challa had two women fighting over him one white and another black as he sat in his chair like a pimp!


If Storm is a whore what does that make T'challa?


Look most of us here have had more than woman in our lives so what is the cutoff number for crossing over into whoredom?


2?

20?

Or Wilt Chamberlain 20,000?


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 09:05:00 am
 
I was just stuck at home for four hours as a plumber fixed some issues, so thats why I had time to reread those books :)  I was a long time X-Men book, stopped reading in maybe 2008, but honestly stopped enjoying them sometime in the mid-90s.


I meant to reply to this outstanding response of yours days ago, Jesse. A four hour plumbing job. Hope everything is fixed...really fixed. I'd wish you luck winning this week's lottery to pay for the work, but since I want to win it myself....well, you know how that is  :) Like you and many of us, I too was an avid X-Men fan. I stopped enjoying them when they seemed to become preoccupied with sex dreams forgetting all about the X dreams.

Quote
Forge never had a romantic relationship with Mystique outside of some crappy late 90s X-Factor issues, did he?  I try to forget that period of X-Factor from 120-150 or so.  I do know that Destiny foresaw a relationship.


Of the X-Men characters, I've always considered Cable, Shatterstar, Longshot, Dazzler...Forge among the most boring. Aside from the times when he was involved with Ororo - and truth be told, even during their association - I paid very little attention to him. Who knows, Forge might have been involved with Mystique before and outside the issues you mentioned and wouldn't have known it. The freaky Mystique could have assumed the appearance of a woman...or man...Forge might have found appealing.

Quote
Also, my comic history is started to get rusty.  Outside of theories and fanboys imaginations, has Storm ever actually had a romantic relationship with someone other than Forge or the Black Panther?  people like to bring up Wolverine or Yukio, but I'm not recalling another real relationship.  She was with Forge off and on for eight years or so and then later with BP.


While there might not have been anything as concrete as Shatterstar kissing Rictor, Ororo was illustrated as all hugged-up cozy with Yukio at some club in the ARENA story. Plant such an image in the fertile, dirty minds of many seX-Men fans and you can guess what rotten fruit it might bear. Of course, we all know by now that Wolverine does have a sexual relationship with Storm.

Forge - a mutant - developed a weapon that nullified the powers of mutants. The act might not have been intentional, but when he unleashed the power of this weapon, its target was Ororo. The result left her without her powers and devastated. She hated him --- tried to kill him didn't she? Overtime, she grew to love him.


I think they had an immediate attraction in the classic story, but I could be forgetting a story.

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/1128869-4356667239_e540161c12.jpg) (http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronocomic/entries/scans5/UX186_StormForge.JPG)[/quote]

I've never liked the cover of that book, which is probably why I never read it. Ororo - all of her "inner rage" subdued by Forge - she assumes a docile position at his feet. No...don't like it. Never have.

Still, what would make Forge or any man for that matter, be frustrated to the degree that the woman to which he proposed marriage exercised her rightful prerogative to give the matter her fullest consideration? As Forge's "frustration" grew, his attitude toward Storm became sharper, bordering on acrimonius. I would think most women, seeing such a disturbing aspect emerging in the character of the man who had asked her to spend the rest of her life with him would be a gigantic red flag.


In Uncanny X-Men 290, Forge and Jean had a conversation that basically went:

Forge: Not the answer I was looking for but better than her saying drop dead
Jean: She could have said No
Forge: She could have said Yes.

Jean certainly didn't help matters.  From uncannyxmen.net (http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldauto=1756)

"Forge tells Jean that she knows he loves Ororo more than life. Jean tells him that she does not need telepathy to see that, for it is obvious. Forge tells her that it is not so obvious if Ororo loves him in return. She says she does and she may believe it, but can Jean tell him if Storm truly loves him. Jean looks away from Forge and, after a moment, she tells him that it isn’t her place to say. Forge lets Jean go and walks away, telling her that she just did. "

Forge's main issue with his relationship with Storm was that he was under the impression that Storm loved her job more than she loved him.  She didn't tell him otherwise, even though he asked throughout the previous issue, until it was too late.    All relationships hit rocky patches.  It doesn't mean they don't love each other.  Even in the real world, some people value career over relationships and thats ok.  But you can't expect someone to sit around and wait for you to be ready.

Now I expect the seX-Men fans wouldn't care one way or another if Ororo were to marry Forge whose character flaws might make for intriguing stories of spousal abuse.


Has Forge ever been shown to be abusive towards women?  I don't recall but let me know if I am forgetting.
[/quote]

I don't think Forge has ever been shown to be abusive towards women, but from what I've read of him...which admittedly isn't much...I could see his having the tendencies to become an abuser. He has a controlling, "my way or it's the highway", thing working.

I just think that Ororo can always do better than Forge, a man who has to be at least 40 years her senior. We are talking the seX-Men, however. Wolverine might be old enough to have dated Cleopatra and Storm is knocking boots with him.  :-\
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Metro on May 24, 2013, 09:08:27 am
Ultimately, T'Challa is Marvel's signifier of the African continent as much as Steve R. signifies the United States.  While CA literally *cannot* lose in the MU, despite the limitations of physically being 'peak-human' (and effectively immortal), T'Challa should possess a similar status - except in the imagination of most editors/writers, Africa equals 'defeat' conceptually.

While IM signifies technology/western rationality, his alcoholism/ego allows him to suffer mightily in many stories.

BP possesses a moral/emotional/spiritual strength that is the antithesis of IM and a literary value that equates to CA (while in reality, Africa's history and resilience far surpasses the USA).

As I've said in other threads, T'Challa should signify the perfect balance of human spiritual, physical, and intellectual achievement.  His powers should reflect that balance through his mastery of technologies (sub-atomic, biological, & cosmic), his unimaginable endurance-flexibility-strength-quickness, and his transcendent mysticism.

Combine the technologies of DC's Atom, Marvel's Blackheath & Pestilience, & Kang with Class-100 (minimum) speed, strength, agility AND 10,000 years of accumulated arcana (a young DC's Metron, perhaps) -- then you will have T'Challa.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 09:16:23 am
How many men does a woman have to sleep with to actually qualify as a whore?

In Ororo's case and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't matter how many men she had sex with. It's the fact of her being written as having sex with one troll in particular, coming close to doing so while she was married, that I can't countenance.


Quote
Even if Storm slept with more white men than black men how does that make her a whore?

"If Storm slept with more white men than black men..."? For all we know, T'Challa is the only black man she's ever slept with or even evinced the desire TO sleep with and that relationship had to be written by a Black man to make it happen. Storm has been pursued by males comprising all the colors of our American flag. We know there ain't no black in that flag.


Quote
In an early arc of Hudlin's T'challa had two women fighting over him one white and another black as he sat in his chair like a pimp!

Two bimbos want to make fools of themselves and that's supposed to be T'Challa's fault? What...did he grab a mic and say "Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuumble", before the fight began?


Quote
If Storm is a whore what does that make T'challa?

It makes T'Challa a desirable man, a far cry from the depiction of those white writers who write him as a eunuch or a loser in love. Conversely, Ororo has been shown more than a few times with that nasty troll's tongue shoved down her throat. So what does that make Storm...desirable, or a nasty troll's sexual fantasy and plaything?


Quote
Look most of us here have had more than woman in our lives so what is the cutoff number for crossing over into whoredom?


2?

20?

Or Wilt Chamberlain 20,000?

Now there's a question best asked to the denizens of that den of nasty attitudes and even nastier minds aka the seX-Men forum.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Metro on May 24, 2013, 09:25:18 am

Who are the editors in the X-Office who could be reached for discussion?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 09:38:19 am
Ultimately, T'Challa is Marvel's signifier of the African continent as much as Steve R. signifies the United States.  While CA literally *cannot* lose in the MU, despite the limitations of physically being 'peak-human' (and effectively immortal), T'Challa should possess a similar status - except in the imagination of most editors/writers, Africa equals 'defeat' conceptually.

While IM signifies technology/western rationality, his alcoholism/ego allows him to suffer mightily in many stories.

BP possesses a moral/emotional/spiritual strength that is the antithesis of IM and a literary value that equates to CA (while in reality, Africa's history and resilience far surpasses the USA).

As I've said in other threads, T'Challa should signify the perfect balance of human spiritual, physical, and intellectual achievement.  His powers should reflect that balance through his mastery of technologies (sub-atomic, biological, & cosmic), his unimaginable endurance-flexibility-strength-quickness, and his transcendent mysticism.

Combine the technologies of DC's Atom, Marvel's Blackheath & Pestilience, & Kang with Class-100 (minimum) speed, strength, agility AND 10,000 years of accumulated arcana (a young DC's Metron, perhaps) -- then you will have T'Challa.

Where have you been and why didn't you get here sooner? Excellent, outstanding post! We all know that Marvel Comics - a company that seems to suppress...to keep the powers, abilities, significance of its black characters in check (black male characters, especially), has not been disposed to present a T'Challa as powerful as you describe. According to Salustrade and Seven, Hickman is trying to move in that direction. On the other hand, we saw what happened to Brother Voodoo once he became Doctor Voodoo, Sorceror Supreme once the LCB-RD's protests rose to the level which compelled Marvel to take certain measures. Blue Marvel is incredibly powerful, but he's not powerful enough to write and illustrate stories about himself...unfortunately.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 24, 2013, 09:51:14 am
Quote
a ho who sits in a potty chair

Wow.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 10:21:13 am
It's not T'Challa. It's not Storm. It's not Cecelia Reyes, Frenzy, M, Angel Salvadore.... It's the writers subjecting those black women and women of color to their warped concepts of what is sexy and will sell.

I'm reminded of another black female character, absolutely devoid of color...whiter than the Black Swan her own self. Most of us, if not all of us, know who Nekra Sinclair is. Born to black parents an albino and resembling Dracula's daughter, she was unloved by her parents and outcast. The pain of being rejected gave her a very nasty outlook where humanity was concerned. Hate was her power and her battlecry.

While outcast and wandering, she met the offspring of a white couple...mutated as she was. His face was that of a Mandrill, hence his name. Mandrill's power enabled him to control and enslave women by sapping their wills with his powerful sex pheromone.

Mandrill would take this power to Africa, where he wasted no time using it to enslave and employ beautiful African women - their faces painted to resemble that of their master - in his organization aimed at conquering African nations. He also used his power to take sexual advantage of those lovely black females. You KNOW a black man didn't write this.

Meanwhile, Nekra - who hated everything and everybody - is written as falling in love with the Grim Reaper, a racist white man who eventually kills her.

This is the swill black comicbook fans have been made to consume for decades. Black writers didn't write those stories did they? Those black characters are fictional devices used to tell the story, dancing the dance while the writer pulls their strings. Are we going to argue with each other about how big a ho Storm is when clearly, she had no choice but to be the seemingly easy piece of arse for red, white,and blue...(but not black),  men writers envision her to be?

Hudlin's Panther was a powerful man. Could the nasty, hairy, gnome Wolverine ever have hoped to compete with the graceful mastery, could he ever have exuded the sex appeal of Christopher Priest's "A Man Called Hawk" T'Challa doing the Tango with the beautiful Nakia? Black men wrote that T'Challa. White men write an emasculated T'Challa.

And we're ripping at each other for what? For this?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 24, 2013, 10:40:24 am
While it makes no sense that someone would choose the hairy man over the king, the world is full of people cheating on their spouse with uglier, less desirable people.  Sadly, that isn't a good argument against it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 24, 2013, 10:55:52 am
And we're ripping at each other for what? For this?

Because you are calling women whores because they have sex. That's why you're getting a chunk out of your ass - not sure about anybody else.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 10:59:56 am
While it makes no sense that someone would choose the hairy man over the king, the world is full of people cheating on their spouse with uglier, less desirable people.  Sadly, that isn't a good argument against it.

 ;D  And right on cue, here's my brother Kip and his exasperating words of truth and reason.

Yes Kip, you're right about this. But in this instance, it's hard to stomach. I know you didn't think the union was a good idea, but there can be no arguing the fact that T'Challa and Ororo - being Marvel's only romantic coupling of black characters - was a power couple that never was. Money talks. The lack of money speaks a language as well. Unfortunately, the numbers of fans who approved of the MARRIAGE weren't sufficient to compete against those opposed, disinterested, or feigning disinterest while secretly despising the MARRIAGE.

Marvel Comics listened to what "the lack of money" had to say. They pulled the plug and cut the juice flowing to a union so perfect and natural, only those with serious issues *coff...seX-Men fanatics...coff* could have been against it. T'Challa and Ororo even look great together. Reed and Sue...they look as if they could be father and daughter. RoLo is a horror story more terrifying than "The Grudge"...and The Grudge was some scary business.

There is no reason why Marvel should not have toughed it out and allowed the Wakandan Royals marriage to survive. Shouldn't the marriage of Northstar and his "wife/husband" be on the rocks by now? T'Challa and Ororo couldn't work. Jean and Scott Summers couldn't work. Why shouldn't Northstar's marriage be immune to disaster?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 11:06:36 am
And we're ripping at each other for what? For this?

Because you are calling women whores because they have sex. That's why you're getting a chunk out of your ass - not sure about anybody else.

My arse is healthy and whole, thank you very much. If it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck....

 if it is written as being a married woman, titillated and on the verge of having sexual relations with a hairy freak who she knows has always desired to get in her panties and she gleefully entertains those attentions, she is irresponsible, as close to being an adulteress about to cuckold her husband as can be...and a ho. Just the way seX-Men writers like to write 'em and seX-Men fanatics like to read 'em.

That's the way it is. Ain't no fault of mine.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 24, 2013, 11:22:14 am
It's hilarious how the goal post are running. Not moving, but running.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 24, 2013, 11:29:09 am
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqeqkpRqYy1qaov44o1_1280.png)
 :o
(http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd209/mickaelsurtour/X-Men_Legacy248_0008.jpg)

Yeah, T'challa should really pine after this. Smh. The only role they had was Namor hitting it...Married Storm. This is what the X-office is about.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 24, 2013, 12:15:31 pm
([url]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqeqkpRqYy1qaov44o1_1280.png[/url])
 :o
([url]http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd209/mickaelsurtour/X-Men_Legacy248_0008.jpg[/url])

Yeah, T'challa should really pine after this. Smh. The only role they had was Namor hitting it...Married Storm. This is what the X-office is about.


sex...sex,sex,sex,sex,sex,sex....this is the only commodity the seX-Men has for sale. They'll soon have to replace the X on their uniforms with the letters STD. Of course, an std might be one mutation they'd wear like a badge of honor.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 24, 2013, 01:23:07 pm
SINJECTION: Yes Kip, you're right about this. But in this instance, it's hard to stomach. I know you didn't think the union was a good idea, but there can be no arguing the fact that T'Challa and Ororo - being Marvel's only romantic coupling of black characters - was a power couple that never was. Money talks. The lack of money speaks a language as well. Unfortunately, the numbers of fans who approved of the MARRIAGE weren't sufficient to compete against those opposed, disinterested, or feigning disinterest while secretly despising the MARRIAG

Let me add, I don't want Ororo with Wolverine, for nearly all the same reasons I don't want her with BP.  Who do I want Storm with; I haven't met him yet.

Now, as far as Northstar goes, give them time.  Just look at DC and Apollo/Midnighter.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 24, 2013, 02:02:31 pm
Blah blah blah women are whores blah blah blah hairy freak blah blah blah ho ho ho merry slutmas

Fixed!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 24, 2013, 02:25:22 pm

Who are the editors in the X-Office who could be reached for discussion?

To discuss what exactly?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 24, 2013, 03:05:00 pm
It's not T'Challa. It's not Storm. It's not Cecelia Reyes, Frenzy, M, Angel Salvadore.... It's the writers subjecting those black women and women of color to their warped concepts of what is sexy and will sell.

I'm reminded of another black female character, absolutely devoid of color...whiter than the Black Swan her own self. Most of us, if not all of us, know who Nekra Sinclair is. Born to black parents an albino and resembling Dracula's daughter, she was unloved by her parents and outcast. The pain of being rejected gave her a very nasty outlook where humanity was concerned. Hate was her power and her battlecry.

While outcast and wandering, she met the offspring of a white couple...mutated as she was. His face was that of a Mandrill, hence his name. Mandrill's power enabled him to control and enslave women by sapping their wills with his powerful sex pheromone.

Mandrill would take this power to Africa, where he wasted no time using it to enslave and employ beautiful African women - their faces painted to resemble that of their master - in his organization aimed at conquering African nations. He also used his power to take sexual advantage of those lovely black females. You KNOW a black man didn't write this.

Meanwhile, Nekra - who hated everything and everybody - is written as falling in love with the Grim Reaper, a racist white man who eventually kills her.

This is the swill black comicbook fans have been made to consume for decades. Black writers didn't write those stories did they? Those black characters are fictional devices used to tell the story, dancing the dance while the writer pulls their strings. Are we going to argue with each other about how big a ho Storm is when clearly, she had no choice but to be the seemingly easy piece of arse for red, white,and blue...(but not black),  men writers envision her to be?

Hudlin's Panther was a powerful man. Could the nasty, hairy, gnome Wolverine ever have hoped to compete with the graceful mastery, could he ever have exuded the sex appeal of Christopher Priest's "A Man Called Hawk" T'Challa doing the Tango with the beautiful Nakia? Black men wrote that T'Challa. White men write an emasculated T'Challa.

And we're ripping at each other for what? For this?

Real talk.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 24, 2013, 03:26:55 pm
Seriously take the posts of the storm in the storm thread. For the last few pages it is all about storm. I need this dayum issue to come out like now
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 02:42:18 am
Just for the record.

This is the question I posed to Axel Alonso in a Q&A thread over on the CBR as Mr MajestiK.

Quote from: Mr MajestiK;17068176
Hi Axel,

I just wanted to ask you how closely the various editorial teams at Marvel work especially in relation to characters interacting within the shared 616 MU.

This question is born out of the fact that I'm trying to understand how and why some of the writers handling the X-related books seem to be oblivious as to what Jonathan Hickman is doing with T'Challa as a central character within the New Avengers book.

Mr Hickman has T'Challa and the rest of the Illuminati dealing with the Incursion threats as chronicled within the aforementioned pages of New Avengers but for some unknown reason writers like Jason aaron and a few others currently penning X-titles featuring Storm and Wolverine seem to be unaware of this fact which in turn, has led to them mischaracterising T'Challa as someone who has time to waste on the soap opera antics that seem to be all the rage in the X-verse.

None of these writers seemed to be keen about positively including T'Challa in any of their storylines when he was written as being married to Storm so I find their writing about him now that the two characters are no longer together somewhat jarring and to a large extent, quite hypocritical.

Can you shed any light on these discrepancies?

Thankng you in advance for your anticipated response.


http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?274875-CUP-O-JOE-amp-Axel-In-Charge-Q-amp-A-Dedicated-Questions-Thread (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?274875-CUP-O-JOE-amp-Axel-In-Charge-Q-amp-A-Dedicated-Questions-Thread)

His "response" can be found in the thread link posted below.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013 (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Metro on May 25, 2013, 03:23:22 am
Where have you been and why didn't you get here sooner? Excellent, outstanding post! We all know that Marvel Comics - a company that seems to suppress...to keep the powers, abilities, significance of its black characters in check (black male characters, especially), has not been disposed to present a T'Challa as powerful as you describe. According to Salustrade and Seven, Hickman is trying to move in that direction. On the other hand, we saw what happened to Brother Voodoo once he became Doctor Voodoo, Sorceror Supreme once the LCB-RD's protests rose to the level which compelled Marvel to take certain measures. Blue Marvel is incredibly powerful, but he's not powerful enough to write and illustrate stories about himself...unfortunately.

Thanks. Semester just ended, and I'm finally on top of the client reports for my business.

I think it's important to circulate some specifics about T'Challa to offer possibilities to the actual writers/editors.  I'm very aware that the extended development of the mystical aspects of BP did not occur until those discussions had happened here for a couple years.

I wish there was a Blue Marvel trade ... smh.  There should be a 'black hero' omnibus from both DC and Marvel.  They underestimate the white audience for such a product.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Metro on May 25, 2013, 03:33:39 am
Just for the record.

His "response" can be found in the thread link posted below.

[url]http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013[/url] ([url]http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013[/url])


Always bad when the respondent uses the details to avoid the point of the question.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 25, 2013, 04:18:48 am
Where have you been and why didn't you get here sooner? Excellent, outstanding post! We all know that Marvel Comics - a company that seems to suppress...to keep the powers, abilities, significance of its black characters in check (black male characters, especially), has not been disposed to present a T'Challa as powerful as you describe. According to Salustrade and Seven, Hickman is trying to move in that direction. On the other hand, we saw what happened to Brother Voodoo once he became Doctor Voodoo, Sorceror Supreme once the LCB-RD's protests rose to the level which compelled Marvel to take certain measures. Blue Marvel is incredibly powerful, but he's not powerful enough to write and illustrate stories about himself...unfortunately.

Thanks. Semester just ended, and I'm finally on top of the client reports for my business.

I think it's important to circulate some specifics about T'Challa to offer possibilities to the actual writers/editors.  I'm very aware that the extended development of the mystical aspects of BP did not occur until those discussions had happened here for a couple years.

I wish there was a Blue Marvel trade ... smh.  There should be a 'black hero' omnibus from both DC and Marvel.  They underestimate the white audience for such a product.

A black hero omnibus would be sweet! That's a great idea.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 04:43:31 am
Just for the record.

His "response" can be found in the thread link posted below.

[url]http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013[/url] ([url]http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?455000-Axel-In-Charge-May-24-2013[/url])


Always bad when the respondent uses the details to avoid the point of the question.


Dude, he basically engaged in the same type of misdirection that some folks seem to think indicates intelligence.

The fact that he revealed how out of touch Marvel are whilst simultaenuously clowning himself in the process, is per the course for people like himself and others who move goal posts in a similar manner when they get called out for their bullsh*t.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 25, 2013, 05:05:01 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 05:21:13 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.

There's no need to reask the question because 99'9% of the other posters discussing his misdirectional response clearly understood the question I posed.

Alonso is no fool.

There's no way he could have answered the question honestly without acknowleding the fact that Marvel's editorial process is very sloppy.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 25, 2013, 07:06:02 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.
Look, what does those those characters have to do with T'challa. The *reasoning* behind the split was that T'challa was off doing his own thing and Storm hers in the X-verse. So there is NO need to drag him into her drama now.

That was a crap no-answer by Axel, who got KILLED on two questions that he could not answer with any sense.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 07:21:00 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.
Look, what does those those characters have to do with T'challa. The *reasoning* behind the split was that T'challa was off doing his own thing and Storm hers in the X-verse. So there is NO need to drag him into her drama now.

That was a crap no-answer by Axel, who got KILLED on two questions that he could not answer with any sense.

That's just about the jist of it my friend. :smh:
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 25, 2013, 07:25:32 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.
Look, what does those those characters have to do with T'challa. The *reasoning* behind the split was that T'challa was off doing his own thing and Storm hers in the X-verse. So there is NO need to drag him into her drama now.

That was a crap no-answer by Axel, who got KILLED on two questions that he could not answer with any sense.

That's just about the jist of it my friend. :smh:

Whoever did the questions this week has a future in journalism (maybe). The flaw of that column is no follow-ups. But usually they always throw soft ball questions. Your question was straight up fire and the Wolverine question was extremely good on how screwed up Logan is--and it even ties into the question you asked. You have characters acting wildly OOC and it totally kills immersion and the tone of the stories being told.


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 08:08:30 am
Blah blah blah women are whores blah blah blah hairy freak blah blah blah ho ho ho merry slutmas

Fixed!

 :) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me. I stand (actually, I sit), here fully expecting and prepared to accept the slings and arrows of your considerable array. I lay myself open and vulnerable. The sting of your viper's tongue expressed so eloquently by the words of your mini missives, I compassionately embrace. You are a delight. Abuse me as you will or cast me away  :) I will always greet you fondly.

Yes, weasel man is a hairy freak. I regard his sexual relationship with Ororo as being a nauseous abomination and an insult to all Storm fans. Women are certainly not "whores" because they have sex, Maxine. Sex is a sweet biological gift. It strengthens the bonds of lovers. It produces life. Sadly, the human propensity to corrupt the good has tainted this gift. It is a despicable outrage that all too often, women who are the usual victims of this corruption, are made to suffer disproportinately, the blame and the wrath for the depravity instigated by men.

A young girl is raped in Nigeria or Saudi Arabia; the young girl is stoned or beheaded. Recently, there has been a disgusting rash of rapes in India resulting in at least one death of a precious, innocent girl. In these instances, the women were victims of male sexual depravity and in too few of these examples were the men responsible made to suffer consequences for the crimes committed against those women. The women were not consenting; they were violated.

There are however, women who are acquiescent to the lower sexual impulses of men. Indeed, there are women as capable as men of entertaining and acting upon lower sexual impulse - sometimes independent of the corrupting male influence. A single, healthy woman engaging in so-called "recreational sex" with a man who respects her and treats her as an equal, a human being deserving of the good things life to offer, is not a whore. She is a human being. When "recreational sex" is corrupted, the woman disrespected by the men who are no longer sharing a biological gift with her, but using her as a vessel for their lusts and who as a result, loses respect for herself and gives herself over to be used has become a whore for whoremongers. A woman who wantonly lowers herself to be used sexually for financial or material gain has become the ho to the rake using her and together, they till the garden of sexual depravity  ;D I couldn't resist.

A married woman who has sworn herself to be faithful in all ways to her husband, who then disregards her vows and cuckolds her husband is a whore. Ororo was a Queen, let alone a wife. She was written and illustrated by seX-Men "artists" as entertaining the lustful attentions of a known male whore. The number of children Wolverine has dropped all over the world during the centuries of his miserable existence, we might never know. Yet, the seX-Men writers depict Queen Ororo acting very unseemly for a woman of her intelligence and station in life and as for her husband, T'Challa...aside from her reminding the weasel that she was a "married woman", did she ever have a loving thought for the Black Panther or were they drowned in the juices of her titillation brought forth by the force of Wolverine's depravity?

The seX-Men writers and fanatics might answer, "no". And to that I would say..."then Ororo...she a ho."
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 08:21:54 am
Congratulations, Salustrade. Well done. I scanned this article late last night. Something told me to check out cbr and I was led to this. I wanted to be the first to post this and trumpet your triumph, but it is fitting that you were the one to do it.

All hail, Salustrade.....no Maxine, I did not say "aww hell, Salustrade." Again...well done, Brother.

Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.
Look, what does those those characters have to do with T'challa. The *reasoning* behind the split was that T'challa was off doing his own thing and Storm hers in the X-verse. So there is NO need to drag him into her drama now.

That was a crap no-answer by Axel, who got KILLED on two questions that he could not answer with any sense.

That's just about the jist of it my friend. :smh:

You locked him up, Mr MajestiK.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 25, 2013, 08:38:24 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.
Look, what does those those characters have to do with T'challa. The *reasoning* behind the split was that T'challa was off doing his own thing and Storm hers in the X-verse. So there is NO need to drag him into her drama now.

That was a crap no-answer by Axel, who got KILLED on two questions that he could not answer with any sense.

Maybe I misunderstood his answer, but it seemed like he was saying, BP isn't that busy;  he has time for melodrama.  The Incursion isn't a daily event so he has time for X-visits.  Technically, that is true because Reed and Tony are running around off-world during the Incursion.

He did sidestep the point of question, by focusing on a unimportant detail.  That why I say, reask it without the detail he used to sidestep it.  Yeah, he could know full well that he was sidestepping, so I say call him on it.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 25, 2013, 10:52:39 am
The whole Storm-Namor thing was the nail in the coffin for me. I was a huge supporter of their coupling but when you  have X Verse writers and editorial co-signing the venom some of the fan base had for them it was a wrap and time to let it go. It wasn't going to get better. I love Storm but it is just toxic. And I feel they disrespected her more than him.

Being a Queen could have been so big for her and they didn't get it and they blew it. As a Storm fan I am disgusted they devolved her and lessened her. In some quarters that is sinking in. So yeah all this Wakanda/T'Challa stuff they're doing now is like...please. It is amazing he is the most interesting part of her story.

Now as a BP fan if it happens or not I'd like to see him with the Swan whether she is Middle Eastern or from a trailer park in Kentucky. Actually I want him with anybody not named Storm. Cuz guess what, they are not getting back together in anyone here's lifetime and I do not want to see him continually played as her relationship pawn.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 11:12:46 am
I think it's important to circulate some specifics about T'Challa to offer possibilities to the actual writers/editors.  I'm very aware that the extended development of the mystical aspects of BP did not occur until those discussions had happened here for a couple years.

Agreed. I believe such discussions which took place at cbr years ago, might have had some small degree of influence in projects involving the characters Luke Cage, Cloak and Dagger, the fostering of black/black character relationships, and a concept I threw out there of having certain persecuted characters escaping to the safe haven of Wakanda which at that period, was still ruled by T'Challa and Ororo.

The first indication of this was the House Of M Avengers. Luke Cage was the leader of a persecuted group of homosapien heroes battling homosuperior subjugation. Luke Cage's initial love interest was Tigra. When she was killed, Misty Knight joined the team and became Cage's love interest. Check off black/black character relationships. In that same book, many persecuted homosapien characters were able to find save haven from mutant oppression in Wakanda.

An interesting set of circumstances related to some ideas being discussed and debated at that time and they didn't end there.

Being a Cloak fan, the relationship he has shared with his partner Dagger has always irked me. I suggested the two be separated, that Cloak's character be explored and developed in the absence of Dagger. In his origin issue, it was shown that Tyrone Johnson had been an excellent high school athlete and promising student. I thought it would be a good idea if his character encountered T'Challa who would then take an interest in young Tyrone and sponsor him allowing him to complete his education and the opportunity for a better life. I also mentioned that Tyrone should find a black girlfriend, my preference being a Rhianna lookalike. "Oh, no!", was the cbr reply. "Cloak and Dagger are supposed to be homeless, street-level vigilanties, forever and hopelessly dependent upon one another."

House Of M Avengers: Cloak was featured as being a member of Cage's team sans Dagger. More black/black character relationships, having Cloak with no Dagger. Two birds; one stone. sinjection was beginning to feel very full of himself. Considering how long Tyrone/Cloak had been on the run with Tandy/Dagger, I wondered how Tyrone found the time and as his condition is usually intangible, how was he then able to visit a barber and have his hair cut. That shouldn't be possible. Another member mentioned how cool it would be if Ty had dreads.

Then came the Cloak and Dagger One-Shot. Cloak and Dagger, believing themselves to be mutants, were living on Utopia. Dagger loved the companionship of the seX-Men. A man after my own heart, Cloak did not. A schism had developed between Dagger and himself as Cloak became more aloof and secretive. The shoe was now on the other foot. It was Dagger shedding tears at what seemed to her to be Cloak's rejection of her. Tyrone Johnson, wearing dreadlocks, was teleporting from Utopia to his old neighborhood and hooking up with an old girlfriend, not quite a Rhianna lookalike, but as close as they could manage I suspect.

Not surprisingly, some "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body" at the cbr were not particularly pleased that Dagger had been depicted as "needy" and chasing after Cloak. I think the Spider Island Cloak and Dagger story, which again had Cloak needy and Dagger off doing her own thing and seemingly wanting to separate from Cloak might have pacified those disaffected "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body".

At any rate, as you say...such discussions could very well be considered by the actual creators and storytellers and if any of those ideas discussed happens to strike their fancy, then perhaps we will see things like T'Challa's enhanced mystical capabilities, T'Challa's righteous retribution and satisfying beatdown of Namor, Wolverine; Dr. Doom. We could even see the dawning of a new Wakandan Royal Couple...a couple of blackies...Panther and Swan.

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I wish there was a Blue Marvel trade ... smh.  There should be a 'black hero' omnibus from both DC and Marvel.  They underestimate the white audience for such a product.

I would snatch it up before it had time to rest on the shelf.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 25, 2013, 11:21:18 am
The whole Storm-Namor thing was the nail in the coffin for me. I was a huge supporter of their coupling but when you  have X Verse writers and editorial co-signing the venom some of the fan base had for them it was a wrap and time to let it go. It wasn't going to get better. I love Storm but it is just toxic. And I feel they disrespected her more than him.

Being a Queen could have been so big for her and they didn't get it and they blew it. As a Storm fan I am disgusted they devolved her and lessened her. In some quarters that is sinking in. So yeah all this Wakanda/T'Challa stuff they're doing now is like...please. It is amazing he is the most interesting part of her story.

Now as a BP fan if it happens or not I'd like to see him with the Swan whether she is Middle Eastern or from a trailer park in Kentucky. Actually I want him with anybody not named Storm. Cuz guess what, they are not getting back together in anyone here's lifetime and I do not want to see him continually played as her relationship pawn.
^^^^^^Agreed totally. You get it. I don't care either. Which is why I'm taken back that race was even brought up. She has the most potential out of the newer female characters. She not a sexual object, and she is on par if not flat out above her male counter parts. Yeah, five issues, but she's going to be with T'challa for the next two years at least.

Being white would not be thrown around like that. It makes the people who choose to do it no different then the comic fans who do that against characters of color. It's just ignorant to call someone from Sumer, white. And also as a insult.

I'm all for "black love"  but you are right if she was Asian, European, from Kentucky or black, I would feel the same. Race was something I didn't look at.

She's the leading lady in the most important book to marvel mega plot. She clearly has a thing for T'challa. Even name dropping him for no reason in a conversation with Tony and Reed in the recent preview and talks to him in a different tone then the others.

Black Swan and Black Panther is no different from Storm and Forge. Personally, to fill the black love and Latin love you might have to look to different characters to fill that void. Falcon, Rhodey, Nick Fury Jr. Etc are all without any partner.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 25, 2013, 12:02:32 pm
:) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me.

Not really. If you think I read your posts in full (or at all, at this point) you're sadly mistaken.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 12:15:57 pm
:) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me.

Not really. If you think I read your posts in full (or at all, at this point) you're sadly mistaken.

But you still felt the need to respond.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 01:04:15 pm
:) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me.

Not really. If you think I read your posts in full (or at all, at this point) you're sadly mistaken.

Ohhh. Thank you so much for letting me know this. And here I thought it was my stated opinions which had incited your ire towards me. I now see that it is your ignorance of my opinions that seems the be the problem. To which I'm sure you would reply...if you happened to read this post at any rate: "No, I don't read your posts because you and your opinions are ignorant."  I feel so much better now knowing that I have not offended you in some way. And now, back to the discussion of the Black Panther and related issues  ;)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 01:08:44 pm
:) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me.

Not really. If you think I read your posts in full (or at all, at this point) you're sadly mistaken.

But you still felt the need to respond.

Dear Brother, I have just purchased issues #2, #4, and #5 of New Avengers. I intend to give each a careful reading and return better informed and able to more fully appreciate the issues being discussed. Also, Black Swan is hot. Knowing that Maxine isn't reading this, I feel confident that I haven't stepped on any toes  ;)

And in deference to the sensibilities of Dear Maxine, I will give serious consideration to refraining from referring to the seX-Men-written Ororo as a whore and/or ho. Henceforth, I will use the kinder, gentler, more accurate descriptor for the now single sexually active woman Ororo is at this time, "Wolverine's nut bucket", should do quite nicely.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 25, 2013, 01:39:01 pm
But you still felt the need to respond.

Courtesy. No reason for a guy getting carpal tunnel over some sh*t that I'm not even going to read. That, and the arrogance of it is all is hilarious. "I know that you are put out with me." LOL at the idea of me reading all that sh*t.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 25, 2013, 06:21:29 pm
:) Dear, Dear Lady:

I know that you are put out with me.


Not really. If you think I read your posts in full (or at all, at this point) you're sadly mistaken.


But you still felt the need to respond.


Dear Brother, I have just purchased issues #2, #4, and #5 of New Avengers. I intend to give each a careful reading and return better informed and able to more fully appreciate the issues being discussed. Also, Black Swan is hot. Knowing that Maxine isn't reading this, I feel confident that I haven't stepped on any toes  ;)


(http://i39.tinypic.com/s31rhh.jpg)

Glad to hear you're catching up on what Hickman is doing with T'Challa in the New Avengers.

I genuinely think you'll be pleasantly suprised.  ;D

Yabbat Ummon Tarru is an intriguing character to say the least and her dialogue is unique.

Yes, I do believe you're in for a rare treat my brother.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 25, 2013, 07:53:27 pm
Sinjection1, I did read your Dear Dear Lady post and let me say...


That sounded like some ish I would say so I'm giving you props for that whole post specifically for the way you calmly and cooly presented your ideas without getting too emotional or irrationally over the top!


It's all in how you state it and I think you delivered valiantly... But leave my Maxine alone you little flirt I see what you are doing there! ;D


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 25, 2013, 08:42:46 pm
Sinjection1, I did read your Dear Dear Lady post and let me say...


That sounded like some ish I would say so I'm giving you props for that whole post specifically for the way you calmly and cooly presented your ideas without getting too emotional or irrationally over the top!


It's all in how you state it and I think you delivered valiantly... But leave my Maxine alone you little flirt I see what you are doing there! ;D

You're too kind, Flex. I thank you.

Like Ture, I do despise what seX-Men writers have done to the character of Storm. It seems as if they are pulling out all the stops in a campaign of seek and destroy. This is to say, they are seeking out every vestige of Hudlin's depiction of Storm which elevated her from "Blue Team leader" or whatever seX-Men insignificant rank she held to elegant Queen of Wakanda and destroying them.

She is no longer the Wakandan Nefertiti. Because her fans demanded it, Storm is now nothing more than "Wolverine's nut bucket." This having been said, it was never my intention to imply that I considered single women who engaged in sexual activities to be whores. I simply wanted to make my position clear. I'm pleased to see you understood and appreciated the sentiment I attempted to convey.

We fans of Black Panther, Storm, and other black superheroes and supporting characters want to see those characters depicted accurately, respectfully, and afforded the best chance to succeed. At times we may clash in our opinions as to how this could/should be accomplished but ultimately, we remain united in seeing that goal realized.

Maxine barely knows I exist. You never had a worry there.

On another note...years ago I worked in the graphics/printing field and on occasion, worked in Photoshop, Illustrator and like applications. I've seen your posts about the "Z Brush", you call it? Looks interesting.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 25, 2013, 11:10:18 pm
It's all good Sinjection1 I see where you are coming from!


I have a Storm sculpt in Zbrush I'm working on for someone else as a gift and will post that soon!


Another software is Lightwave which allows you to transfer back and forth right directly from Zbrush with your sculpted model!


Once I master that real soon I'll literally be able to animate a whole movie on Pixar's level!


Me and Maxine almost never see eye to eye and that is why we keep getting divorced and married again every sliding timescale turnover and she does make good points about the Storm and the Black Swan issues!


A lot of us had invested time in what Hudlin had set up and would have liked to see Marvel show some ounce of respect to it but instead they phoned it in and then rubbed it in as expected making a lot of angry Black Panther fans in the process!


And now seeing Whedon talk so much of crossover characters Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver who are now appearing for both Fox and Marvel Studios in different films which would have been great for Storm and Black Panther it gets deeper still!


The effort to circumvent contracts between studios for two characters not named T'challa and Ororo is a further slap in the face with no talk of even a Black Panther appearance at least after the credits roll!


One day we all may have to move on to other adventures... That's why you should be all up in the Black Comic Book Convention thread where Hudlin has agreed by extreme torture to at least show up in Black Panther feet pajamas and a plastic purple Mace Windu light saber!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 05:50:44 am
Flex, that was never going to happen (Storm in Panther film). It's a different situation and Disney is likely going to go legal on Fox. It's war.

spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2013/05/24/marvel-and-fox-reportedly-in-stand-off-over-quicksilver/ (http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2013/05/24/marvel-and-fox-reportedly-in-stand-off-over-quicksilver/)

Notice that Scarlet Witch isn't much involved or mentioned. There must be some kind of loop hole and Storm likey doesn't fit into it. So that's not exactly correct. They aren't working together, Disney/Marvel didn't make a effort and I doubt Disney would try to pull something off that Fox *clearly* owns to rights too and get sued.

Stringer even deleted and replaced his tweet, with the likely premise of Fox's legal argument for Quicksilver. But Storm has already appeared in three movies. No way she was going to appear in Marvel's as long as Fox owns the rights.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 26, 2013, 07:01:00 am

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It's not possible. Not In this climate. She's a x-Character, and that's the root of the problem.
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Hudlin was trying to fix the character. Mcduffie was trying to fix the character.
Quote
Hudlin's (and Mcduffie) Storm was a black woman. I mean it was a central theme and aspect to the character. However, Chris Claremout's Storm was anything but and her connection was minimal to Africa and nonexistent to African American experience; Hudlin is the one who brought up her family that was ignored since her origin story. CC had Storm pine after powerful white men, get into a relationship with Forge who stripped her powers and wrote away her blackness--and he's consider THE Storm writer...while Hudlin is hated and Mcduffie gets shade.

It's over, isn't it Seven? Painfully poigant, virtually inarguable. Great points and posts.

Prolific as ever Sinjection1. I was unfamiliar with "Friday Night Lights" and found your insights to be on point in that regard.
Quote
Nicholas Payton angers white Jazz music fans by choosing to refer to the genre by the acronym "BAM", Black American Music. Those angry white fans will still buy tickets to his performances because he is the best trumpeter in the game.

Maybe theirs is a begrudging yet burgeoning respect for an Afrakan (so called "Black") man claiming his own. Too often we give away our intellectual, artistic, cultural and physical selves for little more than nothing.
Quote
If there was some spectacular event that could redeem Ororo, remove her from the taint of being culpable in the destruction of Wakanda by mutants and cleanse her of the stench of the debauchery she was written as enjoying with the weasel man and whoever else the seX-Men writers chose to deepen her disgrace, I would welcome a glorious reunion of the Wakandan Royal Couple.
Quote
One quick retcon and all this didn't happen like Bobby Ewing waking up on Dallas!

Try this on for size.

Apparently the only spectacular event available is to retcon back to  Secret Invasion. Black Panther and Storm pilot the Skrull ship back to its homeworld. Upon arrival the Panther reveals a fleet of cloaked N'Yami battle cruisers and so begins the Wakandan / Skrull war. In their absence they leave A.S.R. (autonomous soul replicants, think spiritual  clones). Thus they are the ones who go through the events of Deadliest of the Species, Doomwar, Man Without Fear and AvX. Tchalla and Ororo return to deal with the consequences of their actions when Hickman gets the privilege of writing Storm in New Avengers or when Hudlin returns to BP after finalizing the deal that he will write, direct and produce the new BP movie. ;) ;)

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She's white. Pretty it up and obscure all you want to, but she's white. But Marvel keeps slapping black readers in the face over and over - and BP fans in particular - so what's one more time? If anybody loves sucking white cock, it's BP fans. sh*t, Maberry is still busting nuts over the tongue job he got here at HEF.
Maxine Shaw is"poetry"... sheer,unadulterated brilliance. Black Swan is inarguably and purposely depicted as a white woman. Storm is as far as I am willing to go outside the "race". Again I say create or update a Dora Malaje for Tchalla.

The pugilistic missives between Salustrade and Flex (as did alot of the posts on this thread) got me thinking.

Who is better prepared to write Afrakan (so called Black) characters:"Black" writers or White (non "Black") writers? Which of the two is best equipped to addresses the cultural entertainment, political and social concerns and identity for a "Black" audience?

Using Black Panther and Storm as examples; it is clear to me that Priest, Hudlin, Mcduffy and even Dickey have written superior interpretations of Black Panther and Storm when compared to McGregor (credit given for capturing some significant nuances of Afrakn/"Black" life. Maybe due to close collaborations with Billy Graham and Dwayne Turner) Kirby, Thomas, Englehart, Maberry and Liss. Let us not forget Wein and Claremont.

White writers may be less "racist" and more "race" first, intrinsically pulling from their own experiences. It might be frustrating to them to have to capitulate to what may be perceived as pandering to the desires of some "Blacks" for inclusion, equality and acceptance. Their collective reaction to imposed "diversity" may yield some of the  renderings of "Black" characters that we bare witness to and are discussing among the various message boards.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 26, 2013, 08:01:32 am
What it demonstrates Ture that many writers are just lazy. There are too many "types of black people" for a person to do a "black experience" It is ridiculous and borderline stupid.  Maybe just maybe this hero of color isnt any different than some random white hero the only difference is their skin color.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 26, 2013, 08:23:35 am
What it demonstrates Ture that many writers are just lazy. There are too many "types of black people" for a person to do a "black experience" It is ridiculous and borderline stupid.  Maybe just maybe this hero of color isnt any different than some random white hero the only difference is their skin color.

I know of one writer who called it frustrating.  He had a story to tell, using certain dramatic elements and gets complaints about it.  On another occasion he was accused of antisemitic writing, even though he is Jewish.  He commented that writers may be tempted to avoid minority characters because someone is going to see it as anti(insert) and complain.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 09:19:34 am
What it demonstrates Ture that many writers are just lazy. There are too many "types of black people" for a person to do a "black experience" It is ridiculous and borderline stupid.  Maybe just maybe this hero of color isnt any different than some random white hero the only difference is their skin color.

I know of one writer who called it frustrating.  He had a story to tell, using certain dramatic elements and gets complaints about it.  On another occasion he was accused of antisemitic writing, even though he is Jewish.  He commented that writers may be tempted to avoid minority characters because someone is going to see it as anti(insert) and complain.

Yeah, I agree. This is a big issue.

But when you do things like that, you need a STRONG showing and counter view point elsewhere. That's the biggest issue. It's always the same story beats, premise and so on. But I agree that some of the crying wolf is counter productive. Not sure I would jump to write a white character if I was going to be accused of something or still get criticized even when I'm writing a Strong showing for a character (example JH).
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 26, 2013, 09:54:58 am

I know of one writer who called it frustrating.  He had a story to tell, using certain dramatic elements and gets complaints about it.  On another occasion he was accused of antisemitic writing, even though he is Jewish.  He commented that writers may be tempted to avoid minority characters because someone is going to see it as anti(insert) and complain.
That is crap. Excuses are being made because the fact that one cant handle a few people whining? Write human characters and own up to why you wrote that character. That's it. Average male in his early 30s, no kids, working 9-5, has his bachelors and has a girl. Almost your typical male. What race is that man? Does it really f*cking matter?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 10:06:58 am
Quote
Because the very necessary details and nuances of life in Wakanda are not as apparent (often needing to be perceived off panel) as those of reality based Marvel universe New York, it can be misconstrued as less attractive or desirable. The concept of an unconquered, culturally intact Afrakan nation is obscure to many and even offensive to some.

The issue of Storm bifurcates into the intrinsic in story occurrences and the extrinsic interpretive experience of the reader. In story their behaviors just don't make sense to me post Hudlin but if events are to be seen as canonical then the lack of desire and interest Tchalla should have in all things concerning Ororo as voiced by some Black Panther fans warrants some merit.

If my reading of our HEF exchange as it has progressed to this point is accurate, I would venture to say that most - if not all - of us might agree wholly or in part with Ture's keen observation of matters. Very likely, we all might be in total agreement with the following:

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As a reader of  certain persuasions (cultural, social,political beliefs) I fundamentally see the absence of joint adventures, the annulment of the marriage the physical altercation between the two of them whether intentional or not as a deconstructive, negative statement on "Black" couples, "Black" marriage, "Black" men and "Black" women. In this case I hold the writer responsible and not the character.

While probably accepting this to be true, we have often lost sight of it. Ture, I've no doubt you've watched patiently while your HEF brothers, sisters and friends blamed Storm, blamed T'Challa, engaged in sly or sharp exchanges with each other and in so doing, causing the fact that no fault lies with any of us or the characters, but in the decisions by writers to depict our favorite characters less than favorably to become obscurred.

I still have the faintest hope that even with all they've gone through as characters at the hands of inattentive/disinterested/quite possibly, incapable writers, a writer truly committed to the Panther and Storm will emerge and under his or her pen like the phoenix (not that nasty mutant variety but the phoenix of legend), Ororo and T'Challa can restore each other and in turn, their Marriage and mighty Wakanda. If that desire is just my whistling in the dark, and if Black Swan proves to be unsuitable for the Black Panther, like you Ture, I'd like to see a Dora be considered. The Dora I have in mind is Okoye. Think of the interplay between Okoye and Nakia should a T'Challa/Okoye pairing ever happen.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Blanks on May 26, 2013, 10:12:12 am

I know of one writer who called it frustrating.  He had a story to tell, using certain dramatic elements and gets complaints about it.  On another occasion he was accused of antisemitic writing, even though he is Jewish.  He commented that writers may be tempted to avoid minority characters because someone is going to see it as anti(insert) and complain.
That is crap. Excuses are being made because the fact that one cant handle a few people whining? Write human characters and own up to why you wrote that character. That's it. Average male in his early 30s, no kids, working 9-5, has his bachelors and has a girl. Almost your typical male. What race is that man? Does it really f*cking matter?

A-men. Nail on the head.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 10:40:19 am

I know of one writer who called it frustrating.  He had a story to tell, using certain dramatic elements and gets complaints about it.  On another occasion he was accused of antisemitic writing, even though he is Jewish.  He commented that writers may be tempted to avoid minority characters because someone is going to see it as anti(insert) and complain.
That is crap. Excuses are being made because the fact that one cant handle a few people whining? Write human characters and own up to why you wrote that character. That's it. Average male in his early 30s, no kids, working 9-5, has his bachelors and has a girl. Almost your typical male. What race is that man? Does it really f*cking matter?

Agreed. The whole "acting" black is a big huge excuse used with "liberal" writers. You can just color a lot of heroes brown or whatever and it would not matter at all.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 11:17:25 am
Just finished my initial reading through the 3 issues of NEW AVENGERS I purchased yesterday - will enjoy a savouring re-read later this evening.

The story reads beautifully and the artwork is truly top notch.

Hickman's take on T'Challa shows him to be elegant, enigmatic, dangerous and powerful. I especially enjoyed his exchange with the Dora Milaje guards in issue #2.

Needless to say, I fully enjoyed the manner in which Hickman wrote T'Challa's laying down the law to Namor who after some little posturing on his part could only answer: "Of course" to T'Challa's powerful in-Namor's-face question: "Do you...understand?" it's clear that T'Challa isn't about taking any of Namor's mess and hopefully in time, will take away Namor's vain pride.

I said it before: I'll say it again; Black Swan is everything Seven and Salustrade say she is. She is drawn beautifully. Her facial expressions convey perfectly the range of her character - bravery, vulnerability, the air of an awareness of her awesome personal power and stature while accepting the truth she is simply a cog in a machine that compels her to do that which she might never do otherwise.

I wonder if any of you has read Ultimate Marvel's Ultimate Vision. The story was written by Mike Carey and lushly illustrated by Brandon Peterson. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision's desire was to save Earth from destruction. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision was female but in physical form only...at least, on her intitial contact with Earthlings, Sam Wilson (the Falcon), in particular. Ultimate Vision was not biological, but mechanical. She was coldly precise...at first. She began to develop a sense of caring and a capacity for showing emotion. Predictably and ridiculously IMO, the writer seemed to have no problem whatsoever suggesting the possibility of a romantic relationship between a black man and a female that for some reason, is unattainable...in this case, Ultimate Vision being a machine.

The Ultimate Vision story has parallels to that being told in NEW AVENGERS. Whether those parallels mirror the romantic tension between Sam Wilson and Ultimate Vision where T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru is concerned remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to NA #6 and especially, NA #7. If those books hold true to form, I'll be on ground level for the "Infinity" event.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 11:43:20 am
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.

There's no need to reask the question because 99'9% of the other posters discussing his misdirectional response clearly understood the question I posed.

Alonso is no fool.

There's no way he could have answered the question honestly without acknowleding the fact that Marvel's editorial process is very sloppy.

Having read 3 issues of New Avengers and getting a better idea of the magnitude of the thread posed to Earth by Incursion Events, the significance of Alonso's response to Salustrade's questions comes more clearly into focus.

Simply put, with what T'Challa now has on his plate, he has no time whatsoever to entertain two mutant fools invading his nation for the purposes of preserving one supposedly "immortal life" when he is working to prevent the deaths of the immeasurable number of living souls of two universes.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 11:55:59 am
Just finished my initial reading through the 3 issues of NEW AVENGERS I purchased yesterday - will enjoy a savouring re-read later this evening.

The story reads beautifully and the artwork is truly top notch.

Hickman's take on T'Challa shows him to be elegant, enigmatic, dangerous and powerful. I especially enjoyed his exchange with the Dora Milaje guards in issue #2.

Needless to say, I fully enjoyed the manner in which Hickman wrote T'Challa's laying down the law to Namor who after some little posturing on his part could only answer: "Of course" to T'Challa's powerful in-Namor's-face question: "Do you...understand?" it's clear that T'Challa isn't about taking any of Namor's mess and hopefully in time, will take away Namor's vain pride.

I said it before: I'll say it again; Black Swan is everything Seven and Salustrade say she is. She is drawn beautifully. Her facial expressions convey perfectly the range of her character - bravery, vulnerability, the air of an awareness of her awesome personal power and stature while accepting the truth she is simply a cog in a machine that compels her to do that which she might never do otherwise.

I wonder if any of you has read Ultimate Marvel's Ultimate Vision. The story was written by Mike Carey and lushly illustrated by Brandon Peterson. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision's desire was to save Earth from destruction. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision was female but in physical form only...at least, on her intitial contact with Earthlings, Sam Wilson (the Falcon), in particular. Ultimate Vision was not biological, but mechanical. She was coldly precise...at first. She began to develop a sense of caring and a capacity for showing emotion. Predictably and ridiculously IMO, the writer seemed to have no problem whatsoever suggesting the possibility of a romantic relationship between a black man and a female that for some reason, is unattainable...in this case, Ultimate Vision being a machine.

The Ultimate Vision story has parallels to that being told in NEW AVENGERS. Whether those parallels mirror the romantic tension between Sam Wilson and Ultimate Vision where T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru is concerned remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to NA #6 and especially, NA #7. If those books hold true to form, I'll be on ground level for the "Infinity" event.


(http://www.blueravencomics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/NEW-AVENGERS-6-Preview-4.jpg)

Apparently,Rabum Alal, nadanu annu amelserru libbu"means "Great Destroyer, give this child heart" in Sumerian. LOL at Stark.

But this is a good example of Black Swan having King T'challa on her brain. She injects him into a conversation that didn't involve him. She also views him in a certain manner as a warrior, and her tone with him is completely different then when she is speaking to the rest. Now nothing may occur, but there seems to be something. Princesa said a while back that she thinks she is taken by him and I think she is right.

Great review btw.


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 12:00:10 pm
Reask the question without the Incursion aspect, because technically speaking, Incursion isn't keeping Tony and Reed from running off to outer space adventures in their own books.  If they have time to be elsewhere, so does BP.

There's no need to reask the question because 99'9% of the other posters discussing his misdirectional response clearly understood the question I posed.

Alonso is no fool.

There's no way he could have answered the question honestly without acknowleding the fact that Marvel's editorial process is very sloppy.

Having read 3 issues of New Avengers and getting a better idea of the magnitude of the thread posed to Earth by Incursion Events, the significance of Alonso's response to Salustrade's questions comes more clearly into focus.

Simply put, with what T'Challa now has on his plate, he has no time whatsoever to entertain two mutant fools invading his nation for the purposes of preserving one supposedly "immortal life" when he is working to prevent the deaths of the immeasurable number of living souls of two universes.

Exactly. It was such a bs answer by Neo...I mean Axel.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 12:06:31 pm
C'mon Seven let a brotha dream for a day! ;D


This could get ugly where the legalities are concerned but I suspect that Disney is going to win out in the end because just as sure as Marvel pulled Chris Evans off the Fantastic Four franchise and into the Captain America role most people just don't know how deep Mickey Mouse is in the game and what he can do to buy out your other talent right from the very set they are filming on!


If they wanted to a couple dollars thrown at Hugh Jackman and he could be in the John Carter reboot looking back at Singer shaking his head as he walked away... It could get that crazy when you battle Disney and them!


For actors, directors and below the line talent they may want to work on a Disney film like Star Wars or something and pressure could be gently applied on the low to pull them from their Fox gig!


Oh dayum... Mickey just called me right this very minute and told me to shut down this post as I was typing it if I want to keep feeding my family! :-X


That was quick!!!


Mickey Mouse: "If I want Black Panther and Storm I can have them beyotches... Everybody leave the X-men film right now!"


(Makeup persons, grips, lights and sound people start packing up gear and walk off the set as Mickey blows a cigar ring of smoke and stares at Fox execs like what...)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 12:13:58 pm
Yeah, but I kinda knew it would not fly once First Class didn't flop. If First Class flopped hard, then Marvel might have received the rights back. But with Avengers and Ironman dominating. The X-men aren't going anywhere.

Look for the Inhumans to start to replace them. Not in the books, but movie-verse they will be the mutants.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 01:48:40 pm
Uhm Seven...


Mickey just texted me and he wants you to cease and desist with all that truth you are speaking so if you want to keep breathing (Disney has licensed the air) you had better play ball! ;)


I'll try to smooth things over but once Mickey is adamant about something he usually/eventually gets his way!


But this should be good as it plays out because even though First Class didn't flop it still has slipped as a viable product and Disney may make the buying out part an easier sell if the movie does not bring in enough revenue over the cost of reacquiring it!


This move does show that they are playing their hand with Whedon's talk on it so somebody is pushing this behind the scenes!


In a twist of fate if they do go through with filming in South Africa and legally cannot use Scarlet Witch or Quicksilver that leaves the door wide open for Black Panther to accidentally slip into the filming as a fill in!


Maybe that is how it has to happen to make it happen even as a fluke!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 26, 2013, 01:55:07 pm
Maxine Shaw is"poetry"... sheer,unadulterated brilliance. Black Swan is inarguably and purposely depicted as a white woman. Storm is as far as I am willing to go outside the "race". Again I say create or update a Dora Malaje for Tchalla.

Just to clarify: my problem isn't just that BS is white. My problem is that Marvel went out of their way to sh*t all over the only black couple in the 'verse just to bring in this pasty-ass broad. At least Wolverine is an established character, although I would've preferred Gambit (where the f*ck is he, anyway?) or Bishop (they are LONG overdue for hot, frustrated, backboard-breaking sex).

I will say this: it's interesting that we still don't know if Logan hit or not - it's implied - because Storm has never discussed it. She obviously does not consider Wolverine as her mate, nor is there any proof that the reverse is true. Why is Storm not allowed a moment of weakness or a bad decision, while T'Challa gets to parade princesses around as potential wives? (Did we not see Storm literally making it rain on these hoes?) Storm didn't f*ck Wolverine out of anger and she wasn't coerced. She, as a single woman went and got some. Big f*cking deal. The stupid thing (which I attribute to bad writing) was T'Challa saying "anyone but him." Why would he ever even suspect such a thing? So, so stupid.

As for the Storm/Namor thing...that sh*t was so stupid that the only reason why the Snow Bunny Squad is even harping on it is to make Storm look worse. Wasn't that some mental sh*t anyway?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 02:05:25 pm
Maxine Shaw is"poetry"... sheer,unadulterated brilliance. Black Swan is inarguably and purposely depicted as a white woman. Storm is as far as I am willing to go outside the "race". Again I say create or update a Dora Malaje for Tchalla.


Just to clarify: my problem isn't just that BS is white. My problem is that Marvel went out of their way to sh*t all over the only black couple in the 'verse just to bring in this pasty-ass broad. At least Wolverine is an established character, although I would've preferred Gambit (where the f*ck is he, anyway?) or Bishop (they are LONG overdue for hot, frustrated, backboard-breaking sex).

I will say this: it's interesting that we still don't know if Logan hit or not - it's implied - because Storm has never discussed it. She obviously does not consider Wolverine as her mate, nor is there any proof that the reverse is true. Why is Storm not allowed a moment of weakness or a bad decision, while T'Challa gets to parade princesses around as potential wives? (Did we not see Storm literally making it rain on these hoes?) Storm didn't f*ck Wolverine out of anger and she wasn't coerced. She, as a single woman went and got some. Big f*cking deal. The stupid thing (which I attribute to bad writing) was T'Challa saying "anyone but him." Why would he ever even suspect such a thing? So, so stupid.

As for the Storm/Namor thing...that sh*t was so stupid that the only reason why the Snow Bunny Squad is even harping on it is to make Storm look worse. Wasn't that some mental sh*t anyway?


(http://i44.tinypic.com/snktgm.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 02:10:53 pm
Just finished my initial reading through the 3 issues of NEW AVENGERS I purchased yesterday - will enjoy a savouring re-read later this evening.

The story reads beautifully and the artwork is truly top notch.

Hickman's take on T'Challa shows him to be elegant, enigmatic, dangerous and powerful. I especially enjoyed his exchange with the Dora Milaje guards in issue #2.

Needless to say, I fully enjoyed the manner in which Hickman wrote T'Challa's laying down the law to Namor who after some little posturing on his part could only answer: "Of course" to T'Challa's powerful in-Namor's-face question: "Do you...understand?" it's clear that T'Challa isn't about taking any of Namor's mess and hopefully in time, will take away Namor's vain pride.

I said it before: I'll say it again; Black Swan is everything Seven and Salustrade say she is. She is drawn beautifully. Her facial expressions convey perfectly the range of her character - bravery, vulnerability, the air of an awareness of her awesome personal power and stature while accepting the truth she is simply a cog in a machine that compels her to do that which she might never do otherwise.

I wonder if any of you has read Ultimate Marvel's Ultimate Vision. The story was written by Mike Carey and lushly illustrated by Brandon Peterson. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision's desire was to save Earth from destruction. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision was female but in physical form only...at least, on her intitial contact with Earthlings, Sam Wilson (the Falcon), in particular. Ultimate Vision was not biological, but mechanical. She was coldly precise...at first. She began to develop a sense of caring and a capacity for showing emotion. Predictably and ridiculously IMO, the writer seemed to have no problem whatsoever suggesting the possibility of a romantic relationship between a black man and a female that for some reason, is unattainable...in this case, Ultimate Vision being a machine.

The Ultimate Vision story has parallels to that being told in NEW AVENGERS. Whether those parallels mirror the romantic tension between Sam Wilson and Ultimate Vision where T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru is concerned remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to NA #6 and especially, NA #7. If those books hold true to form, I'll be on ground level for the "Infinity" event.


(http://i41.tinypic.com/e5gynp.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 26, 2013, 02:11:25 pm
([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/snktgm.jpg[/url])


And you are...?

(http://i49.tinypic.com/40w44.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 02:41:40 pm
([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/snktgm.jpg[/url])


And you are...?




Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 02:55:56 pm
Jason Aaron is a massive Logan fanboy. Wolverine hit it.

I'm positive the only thing Marvel mandated was Storm return to the X-office control. If Hickman does pair him with the alternate universe Sumerian princess, then that will be his choosing. To me that's far better then being writting chasing after Storm.

A unestablished character is just the sort of character that he needs. Add that to the fact that by the end of this run she *will* be established as the leading lady in Marvel most important title for the next two years, and organic growth could occur between them. It's just right.

I could give a frak about skin tones, ethnicity and colors. I still don't get how a Gambit is ok, how Logan is ok. But Black Swan is not. If ANYTHING, they split them to put her with Logan!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 26, 2013, 03:02:20 pm
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

(http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 26, 2013, 03:34:46 pm
Im still trying to figure out why are we talking about Tchalla getting his "new boo".

Remember how everyone LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEDDDDD Aaron at one point?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 03:37:01 pm
Quote
hyp·o·crite 
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
Noun
A person who indulges in hypocrisy.



Wolverine is ok, because he's established.
Gambit, is ok because he's Gambit.
But Black Swan is not because she "white".

  :o ::)

It's not about Race, but lets call others "snow bunny squad" while calling on Storm to be with Gambit and making a excuse about Wolverine..both who are white.

Lol.
(http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/wallpapers/69042/gambit-mobile-wallpaper.jpg)
 :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 03:40:17 pm
Im still trying to figure out why are we talking about Tchalla getting his "new boo".

Remember how everyone LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEDDDDD Aaron at one point?

Yeah, at that point he wrote a good Panther tale. People loved that, but he was suspect after that though. If you read his x-books you would know.

Personally, I'm cool with Storm being gone. With out Hudlin it wasn't going to work and just to get rid of the X-office who would trashing the character why he was married to her. See Age of X and X-men Forever, just as two examples.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 26, 2013, 03:50:38 pm
Im still trying to figure out why are we talking about Tchalla getting his "new boo".

Remember how everyone LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEDDDDD Aaron at one point?

Was that before of after Maberry got all those HEF hand jobs?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 04:11:44 pm
Quote
hyp·o·crite 
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
Noun
A person who indulges in hypocrisy.



Wolverine is ok, because he's established.
Gambit, is ok because he's Gambit.
But Black Swan is not because she "white".

  :o ::)

It's not about Race, but lets call others "snow bunny squad" while calling on Storm to be with Gambit and making a excuse about Wolverine..both who are white.

Lol.
([url]http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/wallpapers/69042/gambit-mobile-wallpaper.jpg[/url])
 :)


And let the snow bunny squad never forget. It's acceptable for a black female character to be the "nut bucket" for a white character...even if that white character is a hirsute funky runt with a bozo the clown haircut, elvis presley sideburns and old enough to have bedded the female ancestor of the female ancestor of that black female character IF that white character is "established".

hypocrisy of hippopotamus proportions.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 04:13:09 pm
Just finished my initial reading through the 3 issues of NEW AVENGERS I purchased yesterday - will enjoy a savouring re-read later this evening.

The story reads beautifully and the artwork is truly top notch.

Hickman's take on T'Challa shows him to be elegant, enigmatic, dangerous and powerful. I especially enjoyed his exchange with the Dora Milaje guards in issue #2.

Needless to say, I fully enjoyed the manner in which Hickman wrote T'Challa's laying down the law to Namor who after some little posturing on his part could only answer: "Of course" to T'Challa's powerful in-Namor's-face question: "Do you...understand?" it's clear that T'Challa isn't about taking any of Namor's mess and hopefully in time, will take away Namor's vain pride.

I said it before: I'll say it again; Black Swan is everything Seven and Salustrade say she is. She is drawn beautifully. Her facial expressions convey perfectly the range of her character - bravery, vulnerability, the air of an awareness of her awesome personal power and stature while accepting the truth she is simply a cog in a machine that compels her to do that which she might never do otherwise.

I wonder if any of you has read Ultimate Marvel's Ultimate Vision. The story was written by Mike Carey and lushly illustrated by Brandon Peterson. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision's desire was to save Earth from destruction. Like Black Swan, Ultimate Vision was female but in physical form only...at least, on her intitial contact with Earthlings, Sam Wilson (the Falcon), in particular. Ultimate Vision was not biological, but mechanical. She was coldly precise...at first. She began to develop a sense of caring and a capacity for showing emotion. Predictably and ridiculously IMO, the writer seemed to have no problem whatsoever suggesting the possibility of a romantic relationship between a black man and a female that for some reason, is unattainable...in this case, Ultimate Vision being a machine.

The Ultimate Vision story has parallels to that being told in NEW AVENGERS. Whether those parallels mirror the romantic tension between Sam Wilson and Ultimate Vision where T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru is concerned remains to be seen. I'm looking forward to NA #6 and especially, NA #7. If those books hold true to form, I'll be on ground level for the "Infinity" event.


([url]http://i41.tinypic.com/e5gynp.jpg[/url])


He did it to death...figuratively speaking  :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 04:27:34 pm
You called me onye nzuzu?


(Nigerian for Stupid Person)


I finally figured out your problem Maj... African American Men! ;)


I guess what Hudlin had Luke Cage say on panel to T'challa about African men hit a nerve so you waited for the moment to throw him under the bus not once but twice!


You of course targeted me later but I was a little slow to recognize what you and your Nigerian cousin were getting at a while ago... He slipped up one day and revealed something I let pass not paying close attention to it!


If I had known that before hand I would have gotten you some Dr. Phil therapy because now you are attacking an African American woman over a white girl! :o


Salustrade: "Unlike you, I don't have to proclaim my "blackness" as if my life depends on it."

(A straight from the gut confession... I like that!)


Salustrade: "I was born African and don't have to pretend to be one by marriage."

(Bold reference to my wife being African while I pretend to be one... Do go on!)


WOW... How did I miss all that?


Then the threats of violence... The classic Adibisi butt rape comments... Ooooh this just gets better by the minute!


You were once a Jenn/Euphoria advocate and now you threw even her under the bus as well for the Hickman white girl... 'Flo watch out at CBR he gone cray cray! ;D


It's not about race but you clearly made it a Middle Passage issue right off the top... We have a clip!



http://youtu.be/TRDYnbL-Y9o (http://youtu.be/TRDYnbL-Y9o)



Maj have you ever in public or private used the word "Akata"... Mark Furman wants to know if it ever slipped out in passing! :-X


I think you are a closet racist against African Americans and sometimes when a person gets a little drink in them, a puff of weed, after some good sex or they are driven to an emotional state like you were they have moments of pure honesty where everything that is hidden deep within them comes out in Dolby Surround Sound Real 3D!


There is hope for you yet because we African Americans can be international forgivers even if we are sometimes onye nzuzu!


Oh you caught my truth slug... Chaos Killa!!!


"We shall overcoooooome... Waaaaaaaaaade in da water!" :'(






Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 04:58:28 pm
Quote
hyp·o·crite 
/ˈhipəˌkrit/
Noun
A person who indulges in hypocrisy.



Wolverine is ok, because he's established.
Gambit, is ok because he's Gambit.
But Black Swan is not because she "white".

  :o ::)

It's not about Race, but lets call others "snow bunny squad" while calling on Storm to be with Gambit and making a excuse about Wolverine..both who are white.

Lol.
([url]http://www3.images.coolspotters.com/wallpapers/69042/gambit-mobile-wallpaper.jpg[/url])
 :)


And let the snow bunny squad never forget. It's acceptable for a black female character to be the "nut bucket" for a white character...even if that white character is a hirsute funky runt with a bozo the clown haircut, elvis presley sideburns and old enough to have bedded the female ancestor of the female ancestor of that black female character IF that white character is "established".

hypocrisy of hippopotamus proportions.


(http://i.imgur.com/sSQsfry.jpg)
YIKES! Lmao.

This is what "established" gets you! :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 05:15:46 pm
C'mon Seven in basketball that is an inadvertent foul... Logan had position off the dribble and Storm got in the way! ;D





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 05:19:11 pm
Lmao. That was flagrant!  :D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 26, 2013, 05:23:49 pm
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 05:28:33 pm
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 05:30:37 pm
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i40.tinypic.com/2ajyjvr.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 05:45:05 pm
So Kid Kamikaze what do you think the pathology of using an African language to talk down on an African American man?


My wife never does this to me and she speaks several languages native to South Africa... Of course she has better respect and education as a human not to belittle herself throwing those words around at people in fits of disrespect!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 05:48:51 pm
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.

Nwannem ogini kwanu???

Let the ignorant fool continue to play himself like a male ashawo.

He probably thinks that Nigeria is one monolithic nation of people who share one language thus proving that he really is an idiot whichever language one chooses to call him out in.

I should clap for the mumu just because he managed to just about narrow down the phrase to somewhere in West Africa.

And for the record, I referred to you FLEX as an idiot in my native dialect so there's really no need for you to try and turn this into a race thing anymore than you have done right from jump.

You thought you could come slick and hide behind that faux camradarie and jolly bon homie bullcrap that you manage to fool others with but alas you've met your Waterloo up in this bitch.

Bring yourself to the slaughtering pen and let this son of Biafra lay waste to your maggot essence.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 05:49:41 pm
Okay Seven it was flagrant so that is two free throws plus the ball back and a fine but not enough to get kicked out of the game! :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 05:58:24 pm
I am loving you even more Maj! :)


This is a role switch because now you are becoming the condescending one!


I bet I get you to admit things you never thought you would in due time if I'm patient enough!


Still didn't answer the "akata" question though so that was big... What else do you say in private about ignorant African Americans we already know how you feel about Hudlin and myself... You just called Hickman a "Superior" writer on CBR... As compared to whom might I ask?


You are a classic keep it going this is good so far... Give me more of that angry voice I'm learning a brand new language that you hardly ever used before at CBR or here until now that you started attacking African Americans!



GO!

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 26, 2013, 06:12:08 pm
So Kid Kamikaze what do you think the pathology of using an African language to talk down on an African American man?


My wife never does this to me and she speaks several languages native to South Africa... Of course she has better respect and education as a human not to belittle herself throwing those words around at people in fits of disrespect!

The only pathology involved here is the fact that you had the sheer audacity to believe that you could actually get away get away with falsely accusing me of being some sort of sellout, try to make out like you're this innocent guy being cruelly set upon by the wicked Salustrade/MajestiK and generally try to curry support from posters over here who may not necessarily regularly visit CBR and thus may not know that I post over there as well under my Mr MajestiK nom de plume.

Unfortunately for you, posters like Sinjection1, Ture and Seven are fully acquainted with my posting history over there, so your feeble attempts to discredit me over here failed.

You mocked me and tried to make out that I was a punk for asking Axel Alonso a straightforward question about Marvel Editorial practices that have gone against T'Challa.

You disrespected me over here only to jump over to the BP Discussion thread on CBR to "congratulate" me for having my question recognized in the self same thread that you claimed no one paid attention to.

Bearing in mind the fact that most posters in the X-related/New Avengers/BP Discussion threads are all beefing as regards whichever writers are crafting tales around their respective books of interest, I'd think it would be obvious to almost 99.9% of posters that when I refer to Jonathan Hickman as being a superior writer, I'm comparing him to the current crop of X-writers who have done everything under the sun to undermine what he's currently doing with T'Challa in much the same way as was the case when Reginald Hudlin was handling the BP solo book just over 6 years ago.

But in the Hectic mind of Flex, MajestiK could only be implying that Hickman is playing Superior Spiderman to Hudlin's Peter Parker.

Truly pathetic.

I have never in my life conversed with someone as dishonest and contrary as yourself in all my years of posting on various message boards or even in my personal off-line life.

You're nothing more than a sociopathic bully and congenital deceptionist who likes to throw out barbed putdowns and insults only to cry foul when your ill thought out strategems run smack dab into someone who isn't prepared to take your sh*t and retreat.

This has nothing to do with Africans/African-Americans or Carribeans or who likes or dislikes white people or any other ethnicities for that matter. (or even any of that other misdirectional sh*t you're so fond of flinging around)

It's about simple respect.

I used to have a lot of that for you back on CBR until you proved you weren't someone to be trusted.

Now, I couldn't give two sh*ts about you.

So just f*ck off like an infected twat and expire.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 06:34:58 pm
No, No, No and Nope!


I am trying to learn as many African languages as possible so that I can tweet like Morris Chestnut my possible candidacy to play the Black Panther once that Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver thing falls through... You owe me some more African words in you posts! ;)


From now on your long winded paragraphs must be something in African so that I can Google or ask my African friends what the heck is Maj talking about because my wife has given up teaching me a gosh darn thang!


Quiet as it's kept we are bonding here Maj... We are getting some things off our collective chests and then the healing can begin!


Your emotions now have an avenue of release through me so keep pouring it on I have a rant post prophylactic that protects me from bandwidth viruses!


See... Right now you are having a Doomwar experience where I'm in your head like Ike Turner as you sing your sweet tunes!


I told you I don't hate you I'm trying to help you deal with pent of feelings that have driven Black Panther fans cray cray just shortly after they started yanking and gutting all of Hudlin's great work!


You got lost in the B-Swizzy madness when you straight teleported off the cliff and attacked everyone not sipping the Hickman Kool-aid!


Now after that Axel thing I congratulated you sincerely one TROLL to another... Honest that was big for you!


What I did to you was a classic turn a super hero into a super villain and you fell for it trying to get after me across the internet!


Maj based on your recent actions you are now a TROLL like me... Turn around and look at the wake you left behind you from CBR to here!


Now how do you say "smh" in Igbo?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 26, 2013, 06:52:42 pm
attacked everyone not sipping the Hickman Kool-aid!

Actually I remember back when both myself, Salustrade and his cousin( Seven hadn't joined over there yet )were attacked for questioning Hickman pre NA #1, we were called those angry folks who have no faith and should jump in with no questions asked despite all we did was ask questions and openly say we've been burned enough before hand we would rather wait until the comic comes out and then judge but that wasn't enough for some folks.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2013, 07:03:33 pm
What's the difference between Storm LONG TIME LOVE INTEREST Forge, who looks like Tony Stark with a ponytail and bandana and Black Swan?

 ???

Again, if you are a Storm fan--you can't really speak on race like that. Lmao.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/78e1d889ad2eee9cb9b78c48aae43425/tumblr_mmbh05JpMA1qzidaoo1_500.jpg)

Oh and a bonus; one of Storm's Wakandan hit squad members.  :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 07:05:21 pm
([url]http://i.imgur.com/sSQsfry.jpg[/url])
YIKES! Lmao.

This is what "established" gets you! :)


 :D Ouch  :D

In the immortal words of the late, great Andy Griffith: "Pity-ful...Piteeeeeeeeeeful".

Whether it be 616 or Ultimate Universe, as far as Wolverine is concerned, Jean Grey has always been the dish delish. Ororo is and will always be the table scraps. Jean's "Hair like flame and a spirit to match" has always been more than a match for Ororo's mohawk, skin like coal and her being a ready booty call..."wolverine's nut bucket" as some folks like to call her.

It's a shame how writers have delighted in abusing Ororo. Storm fans seem to like their heroine depicted in that manner however, so it it sells.... :-\
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 07:10:17 pm
Genki there was nothing African in that post but I forgive you though!


Most of the time we agree or agree to disagree and keep it moving!


Maj and his cousin have had a personal beef with me for some time and it all came to the surface only he won't acknowledge the real issue!


As a certified personal trainer I try to make sure that the health of the client is focused on so no biggie here... I have a disposable thermometer!


People agree or disagree with Hudlin, Hickman, Priest or McDufie's arm bar but when it comes to personal threats what does that have to do with selling Black Panther comics?


How is it the same beefs are not had with Victor, Marvell, Roland or anyone else?


Cause they let Flex be Flex and keep it moving to the next post... Hellooooo the IGNORE button is your friend!


Sociopathic bully?  Congenital deceptionist?


Should I Google that or Giggle that?


I'm gonna start tweeting why Flex Hectic should play Black Panther in the movie and get in on this acting gig derby!


Once Hudlin is pulled back in as the director I know I can get an audition slot... ::)


Now post more African words that I can practice on before Chewy, Djimon, Edris or Morris Chestnut steal my dream job! 8)













Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 26, 2013, 07:21:34 pm
What's the difference between Storm LONG TIME LOVE INTEREST Forge, who looks like Tony Stark with a ponytail and bandana and Black Swan?

 ???

Again, if you are a Storm fan--you can't really speak on race like that. Lmao.
([url]http://24.media.tumblr.com/78e1d889ad2eee9cb9b78c48aae43425/tumblr_mmbh05JpMA1qzidaoo1_500.jpg[/url])

Oh and a bonus; one of Storm's Wakandan hit squad members.  :)


For being such a xenophobic nation, distrusting of "outworlders", it seems that once the Wakandan females travel out of the country, they don't seem reticent when it comes to availing themselves to and enjoying the attentions of white men.

Doomwar: Johnny Storm's flirtations easily cracked the military discipline of the elite Dora Milaje Midnight Angels.

Nezhno: His mother is Wakandan; his father is a white man.

Shuri: The Wakandan Paris Hilton, cavorting in a state of near nudity with wealthy, ostensibly hedonistic white youths, also cavorting..also in a state of near nudity.

Let T'Challa even think of entertaining a notion of a pleasant interlude with a woman who might be white and some people become hysterical and accuse him of sniffing Lemon Pledge-scented vaginas.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 26, 2013, 07:37:05 pm
What's the difference between Storm LONG TIME LOVE INTEREST Forge, who looks like Tony Stark with a ponytail and bandana and Black Swan?

 ???

Again, if you are a Storm fan--you can't really speak on race like that. Lmao.
([url]http://24.media.tumblr.com/78e1d889ad2eee9cb9b78c48aae43425/tumblr_mmbh05JpMA1qzidaoo1_500.jpg[/url])

Oh and a bonus; one of Storm's Wakandan hit squad members.  :)


According to that one guy who responded to Aaron on twitter Forge is ok because he's light enough to pass for white and that is really the "best" he'll ever get
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 26, 2013, 07:45:26 pm
Genki there was nothing African in that post but I forgive you though!

Don't forgive me, I'm on a road to a evil place and everyone is doomed


Maj and his cousin have had a personal beef with me for some time and it all came to the surface only he won't acknowledge the real issue!

I believe he did several times


People agree or disagree with Hudlin, Hickman, Priest or McDufie's arm bar but when it comes to personal threats what does that have to do with selling Black Panther comics?

People haven't disagreed with Hickman, they still give that guy back handed compliments. Hudlin/McDuffie on the other hand got outright HATE


How is it the same beefs are not had with Victor, Marvell, Roland or anyone else?

They all seem to agree with each other


Cause they let Flex be Flex and keep it moving to the next post... Hellooooo the IGNORE button is your friend!

True


Sociopathic bully?  Congenital deceptionist?


Should I Google that or Giggle that?

Google it


I'm gonna start tweeting why Flex Hectic should play Black Panther in the movie and get in on this acting gig derby!

Go for it


Once Hudlin is pulled back in as the director I know I can get an audition slot... ::)


Now post more African words that I can practice on before Chewy, Djimon, Edris or Morris Chestnut steal my dream job! 8)

Gone
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 26, 2013, 07:54:00 pm
Was that before of after Maberry got all those HEF hand jobs?
hmmm very interesting. It was before most likely.

(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130214172607/marveldatabase/images/5/5d/New_Avengers_Vol_3_6_Textless.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 08:09:44 pm
Genki stop threatening and bullying me with your posts... No on second thought it is so BOSS of you on so many levels keep that up! ;)


Yo boy just blew a gasket is all... Roll him around on the ground and he will be fine once the fire is put out!


Anywho...


There are a lot of things Hickman is doing that is good but that is what you are supposed to do with Black Panther!


There is no need to over praise him any more than another Batman writer writing Batman well... That is the job that is required of you so excuse me if I don't sip the Kool-aid at a few upgrades here and there when super hero comics are supposed to be about pushing the envelope anyway!


If you draw a hero teleporting to another galaxy instantly... DUH this is comics and that is the type of escapism one would expect in a comics!


The Black Panther has been watered down and now Hickman has watered him up... Exactly how much should I make a big deal out of something that has happened multiple times for other characters for decades?


The Hulk has been to Planet Hulk and back this should have happened years ago so even if I am starving Black Panther fan do I need to get cray cray over recent developments when this should be the standard norm as it is for other high profile characters?


I gotta go... Emmanuel Lewis just tweeted something Black Panther and I can't let him take my position no matter what the cost!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 26, 2013, 09:33:09 pm
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.

Nwannem ogini kwanu???

Let the ignorant fool continue to play himself like a male ashawo.

He probably thinks that Nigeria is one monolithic nation of people who share one language thus proving that he really is an idiot whichever language one chooses to call him out in.

I should clap for the mumu just because he managed to just about narrow down the phrase to somewhere in West Africa.

And for the record, I referred to you FLEX as an idiot in my native dialect so there's really no need for you to try and turn this into a race thing anymore than you have done right from jump.

You thought you could come slick and hide behind that faux camradarie and jolly bon homie bullcrap that you manage to fool others with but alas you've met your Waterloo up in this bitch.

Bring yourself to the slaughtering pen and let this son of Biafra lay waste to your maggot essence.


HAHAHA, well there's absolutely no denying that you're from Naija after this post.  Well done.

Oh, and ọ di mma.  A nam a su Igbo ofuma.

I can understand it decently, but I'm terrible at speaking/writing it.  I blame myself on that one, but my parents kind of share the blame too.  Trying to fix that, but like learning any language late, it's never gonna sound fluent, lol.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 10:08:32 pm
KidKamikaze from now on you post to me just like that... Think of it like a Hooked on Phonics African version!


I want insults galore plus a few words that can get me by on my African tour!


My wife used to speak Sotho, Zulu something something and a bit of Afrikaners to me I think but she frontin' now and only speaks any of it to friends and family back home!


I think my wife is racist towards African American men... Or it could just be me! :D


My Ebonics has gotten better but I don't yet know how to say "Sippin the Kool-aid" but I'm hopeful though!


Anywho...


What Black Panther needs is an invented language like the movie Avatar that predates the 10,000 years they existed before most languages that exist today!


Using a reverse hybrid formula one could take current African words and make them have a root from original Wakanda... This would require some genius level understanding of linguistics but would be cool if pulled off!


You know how some english words come from latin or greek well that should be similar to Wakanda as if every surrounding country is feeding off their success and being semantically influenced  by them!


Do you think Black Panther speaks Italian... Could come in handy on certain missions! ;)


http://youtu.be/d3DX9Ho83QI (http://youtu.be/d3DX9Ho83QI)



Okay that was pure TROLLING right there...


Carry on...












Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 26, 2013, 10:36:52 pm
Exactly how much should I make a big deal out of something that has happened multiple times for other characters for decades?

Well if you're a fan of any character that is getting a big push you should at least act like you have a pulse and be happy, pop a boner if you want not just sit back and be a Debbie Downer
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 26, 2013, 11:11:45 pm
Debbie Downer???


AAAAAAAWWWWWW Genki you are the living embodiment of WIN!


I don't think I was necessarily a Debbie Downer to the fullest extent I think me and some folks crossed paths and some did not like that I was not all in with the total agenda and blew into more beefs than actual disagreements!


I personally never cared about the entire Marvel universe inclusion for Black Panther I was always clear about my favored concept of...


Black Panther... Storm or Monica... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!


I may have fiddled with those concepts here and there but a super hero spending more time hanging with ensembles rather than having his own world built up around him cheats me out of Achebe and Killmonger toys!


Ensemble casts like the X-men and the Avengers does leave doors open for multiple writers to TROLL Black Panther at random as is being done right now!


I believe that the Black Panther franchise is a potential billion dollar intellectual property that is stuck in multiple tug of wars from Haters and Lovers alike inside of Marvel.


When Priest or Hudlin was writing him Disney was not in the picture but now the game is changed to where he can catch fire as a solo character and surpass his peers!


I get why so many want him to move meta plots inside the Marvel universe but I still feel that the marketing and sales department has unfinished business that could have supported Hudlin much better than they did!


What happens after Hickman's New Avengers run... If uncertainty about a solo comic is still in question even with the current sales numbers when will they get better?


It went from 100,000+ down to 60,000 relying strictly on fans that may not stick around later but Priest suggested reaching out to a larger black audience that still has not been catered to by Marvel... You can count the BET debacle in there but somebody was not getting the paper work done to boost Hudlin as he worked!


How do you ignore the potential black female revenue by sticking B-Swizzy in their faces after the Storm annulment disaster?


Maxine Shaw speaks for a whole lot of purses that will remain closed for this purchase!


When Black Panther proves he can pay the bills as he did under Hudlin perhaps the execs may green light a movie or other agendas... But for now he is in an ensemble sharing the fan bases with other more established characters that have seen movie time and cartoon time regularly for years!


I still believe that the Black Panther needs a Manhattan Project style creative team that handles all his intellectual property and a separate office exclusively for him that takes the best of the best and deletes the worst of the worst!


HECK even the Clippers are starting to win some now that they have a better team and now they need a bit better to contend for a title... Black Panther always had one or two things going but something else missing like good lawyers for BET loopholes or more actual marketing strategies that let consumers know he existed or a little extra oomph from out of no where that pushed him until fans got Black Panther overload!


Hudlin did a lot of dirty work on his own and probably did not get paid what he should have gotten for the extra homework!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 01:52:28 am
Debbie Downer???


AAAAAAAWWWWWW Genki you are the living embodiment of WIN!


I don't think I was necessarily a Debbie Downer to the fullest extent I think me and some folks crossed paths and some did not like that I was not all in with the total agenda and blew into more beefs than actual disagreements!


I personally never cared about the entire Marvel universe inclusion for Black Panther I was always clear about my favored concept of...


Black Panther... Storm or Monica... Rogues Gallery... Wakanda... Period!

So basically you want T'challa irrelevant? You still don't get why Quick Silver, Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye are in the movies and Black Panther not? Really dude. Why do you keep posting contradictor stuff like this?

Quote
I may have fiddled with those concepts here and there but a super hero spending more time hanging with ensembles rather than having his own world built up around him cheats me out of Achebe and Killmonger toys!

Ensemble casts like the X-men and the Avengers does leave doors open for multiple writers to TROLL Black Panther at random as is being done right now!
Nonsense. So according to you, multiple writers didn't troll Panther when he had a solo? Why would you post something like this? Lol. Ensemble cast has nothing to do with it. I recall Panther being trolled by multiple writers while having a solo. I rather he was front and center of a book that shapes the MU.

Quote
I believe that the Black Panther franchise is a potential billion dollar intellectual property that is stuck in multiple tug of wars from Haters and Lovers alike inside of Marvel.

When Priest or Hudlin was writing him Disney was not in the picture but now the game is changed to where he can catch fire as a solo character and surpass his peers!
It's the same. Same people are running it.


Quote
I get why so many want him to move meta plots inside the Marvel universe but I still feel that the marketing and sales department has unfinished business that could have supported Hudlin much better than they did!
True, but what does that have to do with current stuff?  NA isn't marketed either.

Quote
IWhat happens after Hickman's New Avengers run... If uncertainty about a solo comic is still in question even with the current sales numbers when will they get better?
That's years away. A solo title would not survive in this market. You don't seem to grasp how "sales" work. It's not really sales, but comic shop owners ordering books. Do you get it yet? Do you understand what comic "sales" are? The numbers will go up with "Infinity" as retailers order more books.

Quote
It went from 100,000+ down to 60,000 relying strictly on fans that may not stick around later but Priest suggested reaching out to a larger black audience that still has not been catered to by Marvel... You can count the BET debacle in there but somebody was not getting the paper work done to boost Hudlin as he worked!
See last answer. Honestly, that something different then just Black panther man. He doesn't have a book. There is no Black Panther solo. That's a larger problem that has nothing to do with New Avengers. He doesn't have a book. And 60k is solid. But they are orders, or retailers. Not consumer sales. Smh. And with the infinity event yes, they will spike up. Just ask BP solo spiked during events. That's the nature of the business now.

Quote
How do you ignore the potential black female revenue by sticking B-Swizzy in their faces after the Storm annulment disaster

Maxine Shaw speaks for a whole lot of purses that will remain closed for this purchase!

Flex, honestly bro stop it. Storm is with a white man. For every Maxime Shaw there is a Princessa who doesn't give a crap. You got shows like Scandal anchoring ABC, written by a black woman and it's a hit. Please spare me on this. If they don't like it, well read something else. It's that simple. But honestly normal people will not care. Logan is already being thrown in your faces.

Quote
When Black Panther proves he can pay the bills as he did under Hudlin perhaps the execs may green light a movie or other agendas... But for now he is in an ensemble sharing the fan bases with other more established characters that have seen movie time and cartoon time regularly for years!
Right because Dr. Strange, Ghost Rider, Punisher, GoG and Ant-Man are all "paying bill" ...it has nothing to do with that.


Quote
I still believe that the Black Panther needs a Manhattan Project style creative team that handles all his intellectual property and a separate office exclusively for him that takes the best of the best and deletes the worst of the worst!
Not going to happen man. Hell when Axel had him, it stopped nothing. You had the same shade being thrown by the X-office.

Quote
HECK even the Clippers are starting to win some now that they have a better team and now they need a bit better to contend for a title... Black Panther always had one or two things going but something else missing like good lawyers for BET loopholes or more actual marketing strategies that let consumers know he existed or a little extra oomph from out of no where that pushed him until fans got Black Panther overload!


Hudlin did a lot of dirty work on his own and probably did not get paid what he should have gotten for the extra homework!

Hudlin was great. But Panther doesn't have a book. Fans are not like Spidey fans and keep supporting during the highs and lows and that was also true of Hudlin's run. But you have a long two year at least wait. He's not getting a book right now. That's the right decision by Marvel.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 27, 2013, 02:08:34 am
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.


I'm not your sweetie, you punk bitch. (See? I can call you names, too!)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 03:08:52 am
Quote
How do you ignore the potential black female revenue by sticking B-Swizzy in their faces after the Storm annulment disaster

Maxine Shaw speaks for a whole lot of purses that will remain closed for this purchase!

Flex, honestly bro stop it. Storm is with a white man. For every Maxime Shaw there is a Princessa who doesn't give a crap. You got shows like Scandal anchoring ABC, written by a black woman and it's a hit. Please spare me on this. If they don't like it, well read something else. It's that simple. But honestly normal people will not care. Logan is already being thrown in your faces.

It is becoming a veritable Monster's Ball up in here.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 03:20:07 am
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.


I'm not your sweetie, you punk bitch. (See? I can call you names, too!)


Awww, you hot under the collar now sweetie?

Like I said, you're really not built for this honey.

But then again, I really don't expect much from a small minded bigot like yourself.  8)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 03:29:48 am
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.

Nwannem ogini kwanu???

Let the ignorant fool continue to play himself like a male ashawo.

He probably thinks that Nigeria is one monolithic nation of people who share one language thus proving that he really is an idiot whichever language one chooses to call him out in.

I should clap for the mumu just because he managed to just about narrow down the phrase to somewhere in West Africa.

And for the record, I referred to you FLEX as an idiot in my native dialect so there's really no need for you to try and turn this into a race thing anymore than you have done right from jump.

You thought you could come slick and hide behind that faux camradarie and jolly bon homie bullcrap that you manage to fool others with but alas you've met your Waterloo up in this bitch.

Bring yourself to the slaughtering pen and let this son of Biafra lay waste to your maggot essence.


HAHAHA, well there's absolutely no denying that you're from Naija after this post.  Well done.

Oh, and ọ di mma.  A nam a su Igbo ofuma.

I can understand it decently, but I'm terrible at speaking/writing it.  I blame myself on that one, but my parents kind of share the blame too.  Trying to fix that, but like learning any language late, it's never gonna sound fluent, lol.

My broda, wetin man go do? LOL!

I have the same problem myself as regards speaking/writing Igbo. I guess a lot of Igbo parents made the same mistake as regards passing the knowledge on.

Nonetheless, we have to work with what we've got.

When was the last time you visited Naija? :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 03:32:22 am
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.


I'm not your sweetie, you punk bitch. (See? I can call you names, too!)


Awww, you hot under the collar now sweetie?

Like I said, you're really not built for this honey.

But then again, I really don't expect much from a small minded bigot like yourself.  8)


She mad, bro.

I fear the wolverine/ororo/gambit thing might have her all Jungle Feverish while the prospect of T'Challa possibly finding love and happiness in the arms of the simply scrumptous Yabbat Ummon Tarru has her holding her breath, depriving her brain of oxygen, thus explaining her recent odd behavior. She should stop Waiting To Exhale and breathe.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 27, 2013, 03:48:59 am
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.

Nwannem ogini kwanu???

Let the ignorant fool continue to play himself like a male ashawo.

He probably thinks that Nigeria is one monolithic nation of people who share one language thus proving that he really is an idiot whichever language one chooses to call him out in.

I should clap for the mumu just because he managed to just about narrow down the phrase to somewhere in West Africa.

And for the record, I referred to you FLEX as an idiot in my native dialect so there's really no need for you to try and turn this into a race thing anymore than you have done right from jump.

You thought you could come slick and hide behind that faux camradarie and jolly bon homie bullcrap that you manage to fool others with but alas you've met your Waterloo up in this bitch.

Bring yourself to the slaughtering pen and let this son of Biafra lay waste to your maggot essence.


HAHAHA, well there's absolutely no denying that you're from Naija after this post.  Well done.

Oh, and ọ di mma.  A nam a su Igbo ofuma.

I can understand it decently, but I'm terrible at speaking/writing it.  I blame myself on that one, but my parents kind of share the blame too.  Trying to fix that, but like learning any language late, it's never gonna sound fluent, lol.

My broda, wetin man go do? LOL!

I have the same problem myself as regards speaking/writing Igbo. I guess a lot of Igbo parents made the same mistake as regards passing the knowledge on.

Nonetheless, we have to work with what we've got.

When was the last time you visited Naija? :)

Now that I think about it, three years ago, which is the longest gap I've gone through without going back.  Usually I'm there every other year or so, but due to college, I haven't been able to make the trip.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 04:01:49 am
Just throwing it out there, onye nzuzu is igbo.  There is no Nigerian language; there's a few languages.

Nwannem ogini kwanu???

Let the ignorant fool continue to play himself like a male ashawo.

He probably thinks that Nigeria is one monolithic nation of people who share one language thus proving that he really is an idiot whichever language one chooses to call him out in.

I should clap for the mumu just because he managed to just about narrow down the phrase to somewhere in West Africa.

And for the record, I referred to you FLEX as an idiot in my native dialect so there's really no need for you to try and turn this into a race thing anymore than you have done right from jump.

You thought you could come slick and hide behind that faux camradarie and jolly bon homie bullcrap that you manage to fool others with but alas you've met your Waterloo up in this bitch.

Bring yourself to the slaughtering pen and let this son of Biafra lay waste to your maggot essence.


HAHAHA, well there's absolutely no denying that you're from Naija after this post.  Well done.

Oh, and ọ di mma.  A nam a su Igbo ofuma.

I can understand it decently, but I'm terrible at speaking/writing it.  I blame myself on that one, but my parents kind of share the blame too.  Trying to fix that, but like learning any language late, it's never gonna sound fluent, lol.

My broda, wetin man go do? LOL!

I have the same problem myself as regards speaking/writing Igbo. I guess a lot of Igbo parents made the same mistake as regards passing the knowledge on.

Nonetheless, we have to work with what we've got.

When was the last time you visited Naija? :)

Now that I think about it, three years ago, which is the longest gap I've gone through without going back.  Usually I'm there every other year or so, but due to college, I haven't been able to make the trip.

I really need to visit home again soon.

The last time I was over there was in 2009. :-\

Was planning on visiting sometime this year, but will probablybe travelling to the States this year instead, to visit the potential Mrs.  :D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 04:06:16 am
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.


I'm not your sweetie, you punk bitch. (See? I can call you names, too!)


Awww, you hot under the collar now sweetie?

Like I said, you're really not built for this honey.

But then again, I really don't expect much from a small minded bigot like yourself.  8)


She mad, bro.

I fear the wolverine/ororo/gambit thing might have her all Jungle Feverish while the prospect of T'Challa possibly finding love and happiness in the arms of the simply scrumptous Yabbat Ummon Tarru has her holding her breath, depriving her brain of oxygen, thus explaining her recent odd behavior. She should stop Waiting To Exhale and breathe.


To be honest, I'm not really taking much of what Maxine is saying too seriously because in some little way I can understand why she may be upset with the way things lie between T'Challa and Ororo.

What I do see as being somewhat retarded is her whole "snow bunnies" diatribe.

It just seems so..........bigoted.  :)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 27, 2013, 04:40:53 am
Can we get back on topic: Black Panther in the New Avengers

Beginning to think we need to start a new thread to receiver this topic.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 27, 2013, 04:42:00 am
Someone who isn't as hung up on race or given to faux expressions of outrage as you appear to be.


In other words, nobody. Noted.

([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/2u9u24m.jpg[/url])


Except that you're still responding sweetie.

You're really not built for this.

Onye iberibe.


I'm not your sweetie, you punk bitch. (See? I can call you names, too!)


Awww, you hot under the collar now sweetie?

Like I said, you're really not built for this honey.

But then again, I really don't expect much from a small minded bigot like yourself.  8)


*yawns and clicks (n)ignore* You bore me, bitch. We're done here. Go back on the ho stroll for Marvel with the rest of your girlfriends. When your pimps f*ck you up - which they will, because they always do - I'll be over here, chillin.

Common - Bitch In Yoo (original) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGXG5LS9X2I#)

Can we get back on topic: Black Panther in the New Avengers

Beginning to think we need to start a new thread to receiver this topic.


Awww, that's no fun. How else will these little he-man women haters be able to rub their dicks together while fapping off to their misogynist, anti-women bullsh*t?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 04:57:04 am
And just for the record, here is the post I dropped in the Jonathan Hickman Q&A thread on CBR a couple of months ago...

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?434524-Avengers-Jonathan-Hickman-Q-A/page21 (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?434524-Avengers-Jonathan-Hickman-Q-A/page21)

Quote from: Mr MajestiK;17099487

    Hello Mr Hickman, we've already conversed sparingly via Formspring so I'm not going to bore you to tears with the usual pointless questions.

    You've made your interest on handling the Avengers universe quite clear in a number of interviews so it goes without saying, that there is quite a lot of anticipation on the part of fans familiar with your considerable body of work on the FF, Secret Warriors and SHIELD who are indeed, quite stoked at your involvement with the Avengers franchise.

    It's also on record that you have an abiding interest in T'Challa also colloquially known as the Black Panther hailing from Wakanda.

    You've stated your reasons for being interested in writing the character and for the most part, I sense that you're sincere in your commitment to telling a compelling story as far as T'Challa and the other members of the New Avengers are concerned.

    I will be watching events leading on from NA #1 and will of course be quite frank and forthcoming with my observations as the ongoing saga continues apace.

    Thanks for your time.



Here is Jonathan Hickman's response...

Quote from: JHickman;17099487
Did you just 'I'll be watching you" me?

; )


Contrast the above exchange to this (below) whilst bearing in mind the fact that I apparently "punked out" in the Jonathan Hickman Q&A.


Quote from: FLEX HECTIC;17099487

Hickman,


I knew you would show up at CBR at some point in the time space continuum!


I TROLLED you a bit at Forumspring because I have a fetish for that so let me hurry with my questions before the Mods realize that I am out past my designated curfew!


With all the failures and disappointments concerning Black Panther be they related to his not in production movie, non video games appearances (Capcom), cartoons that rarely air on tv but trend extremely well with little marketing support, a spousal abuse annulled marriage or ongoing comics that deconstruct him every chance they get don't you think that if this character is to finally become a household named multi-million dollar intellectual property that he needs his own office that does not editorially answer to The X-men, The Avengers or mandates from out of the blue that have proven to be cancellation worthy epic fails?


If the X-men, Spiderman and pretty soon Star Wars has an editorial office overseeing every square inch of their marketing and merchandise then should not a team of "Architects" (Writers, artists, editors,etc.) be set aside in their own magnetically fortified cubicle fortress with the express intent to drag the Black Panther kicking and screaming to A-list status finally?


For a character that has existed since 1966 it seems like Marvel has great moments of build up only to drop the ball (Seemingly on purpose) just when it appears like a page is about to be turned to make this controversial character a viable and bankable commodity!


A couple of diehards like yourself could shut the phone lines off from the greater Marvel universe, roll up your sleeves and "Manhattan Project" Black Panther to the point you don't eat, sleep or brush your teeth until that objective is meant!


If you did that you would be legends on a level of Stan Lee, Bob Kane or any Golden/Silver Age architect from yesteryear as creators who pulled off the impossible where others fell short!


Or... You could be on a list of writers who had some decent moments with Black Panther before moving on to Spiderman or Wolverine who are much easier sells as plug n play regulars!


You personally have admitted that Marvel has not boosted the Black Panther up to where he could be so will you push for a separate office that caters to these concerns?


Jonathan Hickman's response...

Quote from: JHickman;17099487

1. My opinion, but that's neither going to happen nor how it works inside of Marvel. Properties grow out of the established editorial structure. Marvel isn't going to just go hire a full editor to start up a BP office. But that's a bottom-up approach to what is a top-down problem. And something like Fincher or Nolan's BP solves that. You know, that just has to happen and it's out of my hands.

2. Again, that sounds like a 15 year plan for something you want 5 year results on.

3. I'll agree with that for the most part.

4. I think I'll "Manhattan Project" Manhattan Projects. As this is the road to prosperity, well being and happiness.

5. All due respect to those guys, but I really don't want to be anything like the majority of Gold and Silver age creators. At all.

6. I'm fairly certain at what you're getting at here, but this New Avengers book is pretty much my dream Marvel gig. I'm not going anywhere until I'm done.

7. No, because it's not a good idea, it's not going to happen and you want this book to be in Brevoort's office, you just don't know it.


I love your passion, man. I really do.



Jonathan Hickman (whilst acknowledging Flex's obvious passion) clearly answered all of the questions posed by Flex and gave his own unambiguous position on every question put to him.

At this juncture, I'm left wondering why a writer who has clearly acknowledged that T'Challa's momentum post Reginald Hudlin has been stunted, should be criticised for doing what he said he was going to do in the first place.

Jonathan Hickman has made good on his mission statement to have T'Challa and Wakanda front and centre within the 616 MU as well as do something that has never been done before with T'Challa, namely headlining the New Avengers in a meta-plot that actually affects the 616 MU and a myriad of alternate earths.

He's done all this without watering T'Challa's character and abilities down to appease the sort of individuals who would rather see T'Challa's character further marginalized and he's remained consistent in his portrayal of a resolute protagonist supremely confident in his stature and capabilities as the pace of the current NA arc moves quickly into the Infinity event.

My original post in the aforementioned Jonathan Hickman Q&A thread was not posed as a question but more of a promise to withold judgement on Hickman's handling of T'Challa's character until I'd actually had an opportunity to see the finished product for myself.

I had already made my concerns about T'Challa's handling post PRIEST/Reginald Hudlin known to Hickman via Formspring so there was really no need for me to repeat myself in a Q&A thread.

I kept my promise to reserve judgement on Jonathan Hickman's commitment to T'Challa's renewed forward momentum and can honestly say that he is doing what he said he was going to do.

That's more than enough for me.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 05:28:20 am
Can we get back on topic: Black Panther in the New Avengers

Beginning to think we need to start a new thread to receiver this topic.


Did you mean recover the topic?  :)

As for bringing the discussion back to Black Panther in the New Avengers I have no problem doing that.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg)

T'Challa is currently front and centre within a book that consists of an ensemble cast that he called together in the first place.

He hasn't been watered down to match the agenda of suspect writers (Maberry, Carey Bendis or Aaron) and his momentum heading on into the Infinity event is being built upon a very solid foundation that also includes Queen Shuri, the sister Marvel more or less forgot he had all the way through AvX.

Hickman isn't acknowledging the soap opera drama the X-office are trying to drag T'Challa into and the shade being thrown on Hickman's handling of T'Challa's character is having zero negative impact on his professionalism or T'Challa's forward momentum.

What more could any self respecting connisseur of good storytelling wish for? 

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2zf3guu.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/108iyk1.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/35jbi8w.jpg)
(http://i45.tinypic.com/jsjapw.jpg)





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 27, 2013, 05:56:52 am
Can we get back on topic: Black Panther in the New Avengers

Beginning to think we need to start a new thread to receiver this topic.

Did you mean recover the topic


Stupid autocorrect!   ;D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 06:13:11 am
Can we get back on topic: Black Panther in the New Avengers

Beginning to think we need to start a new thread to receiver this topic.

Did you mean recover the topic


Stupid autocorrect!   ;D

LOL!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 06:54:22 am

To be honest, I'm not really taking much of what Maxine is saying too seriously because in some little way I can understand why she may be upset with the way things lie between T'Challa and Ororo.

What I do see as being somewhat retarded is her whole "snow bunnies" diatribe.

It just seems so..........bigoted.  :)


 ;) I would have given you this exact same response you've given me had the shoe been on the other foot, dear Brother.

And now:


As for bringing the discussion back to Black Panther in the New Avengers I have no problem doing that.

([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg[/url])

T'Challa is currently front and centre within a book that consists of an ensemble cast that he called together in the first place.

He hasn't been watered down to match the agenda of suspect writers (Maberry, Carey Bendis or Aaron) and his momentum heading on into the Infinity event is being built upon a very solid foundation that also includes Queen Shuri, the sister Marvel more or less forgot he had all the way through AvX.

Hickman isn't acknowledging the soap opera drama the X-office are trying to drag T'Challa into and the shade being thrown on Hickman's handling of T'Challa's character is having zero negative impact on his professionalism or T'Challa's forward momentum.

What more could any self respecting connisseur of good storytelling wish for? 

([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/2zf3guu.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/108iyk1.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i50.tinypic.com/35jbi8w.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i45.tinypic.com/jsjapw.jpg[/url])



doomwar was beautifully written, although the what which was written proved to be woefully inadequate, infuriating, Shuri-promoting, T'Challa-emasculating, fan-killing caca.
The shadow physics and "Nowhere Room" held out the hope of better things but failed to deliever as even taking those things into account, the overriding image the story left in my mind was that of T'Challa dazed, head down and on his knees having been smacked down by Dr. Doom.  3 issues of Hickman's New Avengers has begun the process of chipping away at that image.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 07:20:12 am

To be honest, I'm not really taking much of what Maxine is saying too seriously because in some little way I can understand why she may be upset with the way things lie between T'Challa and Ororo.

What I do see as being somewhat retarded is her whole "snow bunnies" diatribe.

It just seems so..........bigoted.  :)


 ;) I would have given you this exact same response you've given me had the shoe been on the other foot, dear Brother.

And now:


As for bringing the discussion back to Black Panther in the New Avengers I have no problem doing that.

([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg[/url])

T'Challa is currently front and centre within a book that consists of an ensemble cast that he called together in the first place.

He hasn't been watered down to match the agenda of suspect writers (Maberry, Carey Bendis or Aaron) and his momentum heading on into the Infinity event is being built upon a very solid foundation that also includes Queen Shuri, the sister Marvel more or less forgot he had all the way through AvX.

Hickman isn't acknowledging the soap opera drama the X-office are trying to drag T'Challa into and the shade being thrown on Hickman's handling of T'Challa's character is having zero negative impact on his professionalism or T'Challa's forward momentum.

What more could any self respecting connisseur of good storytelling wish for? 

([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/2zf3guu.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/108iyk1.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/30kbkns.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i50.tinypic.com/35jbi8w.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i45.tinypic.com/jsjapw.jpg[/url])



doomwar was beautifully written, although the what which was written proved to be woefully inadequate, infuriating, Shuri-promoting, T'Challa-emasculating, fan-killing caca.
The shadow physics and "Nowhere Room" held out the hope of better things but failed to deliever as even taking those things into account, the overriding image the story left in my mind was that of T'Challa dazed, head down and on his knees having been smacked down by Dr. Doom.  3 issues of Hickman's New Avengers has begun the process of chipping away at that image.


Maybe these clowns would be happier if we returned to this......:smh:

(http://i53.tinypic.com/2hmkoj6.jpg)
(http://i56.tinypic.com/jaujxj.jpg)
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2cm1x2.jpg)
(http://i51.tinypic.com/wbt0d1.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 27, 2013, 07:53:23 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 08:10:24 am

Maybe these clowns would be happier if we returned to this......:smh:

([url]http://i53.tinypic.com/2hmkoj6.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i56.tinypic.com/jaujxj.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i55.tinypic.com/2cm1x2.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i51.tinypic.com/wbt0d1.jpg[/url])


Who knows? Perhaps if T'Challa's humiliating beatdowns ensured the Black Swan would never be created - a character so enthralling as to rival the energy once generated by Storm herself - and if the price of Doom's complete domination of T'Challa on every level of the doomwar story didn't preclude any options for future relationships Ororo might enjoy with Gambit, Wolverine, Forge, Yukio, Namor, or even Doom himself, a few might have seen their way to grinning and bearing doomwar. Afterall, it's possible some might prefer chittlin's to Lemon Pledge if it meant being able to project the image of uncompromising blackness.

I am reminded of past stories I've read having similarities to that being told in New Avengers. The Avengers/Korvac Saga for one. I've already mentioned the Ultimate Universe/Ultimate Vision story - the potential for parallel between Sam Wilson/Ultimate Vision and T'Challa/Yabbat Ummon Tarru. Another past story similar to the Great Destroyer aspect of New Avengers is one written by Stan Lee and illustrated by my personal favorite, Big John Buscema. It was a Silver Surfer story called "Worlds Without End". T'Challa was involved in the Korvac Saga and before killing the Black Panther, Korvac told him that of all the heroes he's had to kill that day, he most regretted killing T'Challa because he was the noblest of them all.

Naturally, I'm expecting a far better result for the Black Panther than was rendered in the Korvac Saga and certainly doomwar.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 27, 2013, 08:13:36 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

When you're a rabid pro-white fanboy, you overlook nuanced sh*t like history or truth, or even common sense. And let's keep it real - if Black Swan was black, nobody would give two f*cks about this broad. They're just excited because she's white.

Quote
Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

The fanbratti was right. These guys never cared about Storm. All they cared about was T'Challa having something to nut in, and that's all they care about now. Could be Storm, Black Swan, or a hole in the ground.

The fact that T'Challa is on cordial terms with his ex-wife (like a lot of grownups in the real world - my grandparents, for example) can't happen. Storm has to be humiliated and destroyed in their eyes - and if T'Challa is the one to be able to do it, even better. Maybe he can leak a sex tape with his new chick wearing a white wig and some lightning bolt earrings. Yeah, that'll learn her.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 08:17:57 am
.

It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.
That's fine. But what is being said now is bigoted. Period.

it's bigotry and consistent that relationships DON'T usually last at Marvel no matter what race. Look at Hawkeye and Mockingbird, Black Widow and Bucky, Peter and M.J (and Gwen). And so on, they eventually run it's course.

What we have is racist-hypocrital bigotry.

Storm IS in a relationship with Wolverine. BUT THAT'S fine. Suggestions that she should have been with Gambit. But let someone mention the prospect of Black Swan...who is as "white" as her long time lover Forge who is "effectively" white as well and you are called doing vulgar acts, names like snow bunnies squad and more. Smh

There Is no reaction of hooray Black Swan. It's the freaking opinion of a few people who like the character, in spite of race. Black Panther isn't the be all for everything black.

You have to rack your brain to think if any couple outside Reed and Sue. But Storm with Panther IS OVER. They broke them up and put her with Wolverine. A white Man.






Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 08:20:46 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

Vic, I know you know my posting history. I know you know how adamant I have been with respect to the issue of black/black character relationships - romantic and otherwise. I know that you can remember at least one instance in the many I have had discussing/debating this issue with "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body", where I have been accused of bigotry. I have been consistent and I still say, if Hickman is so inclined, I would welcome the development of a more tender relationship between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru if for nothing else than to shove it into the faces of those who have celebrated the white writer's perpetual emasculation of the Black Panther and black male characters while the white character Danny Rand is knocking up black female character Misty Knight.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 08:25:19 am
A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

You mean the same Monica Lynne who fell in love and became engaged to white reporter Kevin Trublood while T'Challa had been injured and lost his memory...the same Monica Lynne who could not remain faithful to the Black Panther in the hope that his injury might reverse itself. That Monica Lynne. No thanks. Been there: Done DONE that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 08:26:40 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

Vic, I know you know my posting history. I know you know how adamant I have been with respect to the issue of black/black character relationships - romantic and otherwise. I know that you can remember at least one instance in the many I have had discussing/debating this issue with "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body", where I have been accused of bigotry. I have been consistent and I still say, if Hickman is so inclined, I would welcome the development of a more tender relationship between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru if for nothing else than to shove it into the faces of those who have celebrated the white writer's perpetual emasculation of the Black Panther and black male characters while the white character Danny Rand is knocking up black female character Misty Knight.

Nah, they would rather he openly chase after a character he's not going to be with anymore. Or characters that are not showing up. I wanted Okoye, but she hasn't shown up since Priest run. T'challa shouldn't have to wait around for anything and he should have the same rules applied to him as Storm fans gave to her.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 08:30:01 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

The bigoted aspect comes intot the equation when readers who are enjoying the interaction between Yabbat Ummon Tarru and T'Challa are described as being members of some mythical "snow bunny" brigade.

As a long time poster over in CBR and a regular poster within the myriad Black Panther Appreciation Threads over there, you're well aware of the fact that posters like myself, Umbra, Moneyspider, Marvell2100 and more than a few others, were 100% in support of the marriage and voiciferous defenders of Mr Hudlin's vision while he was writing the Black Panther monthly ongoing at that time.

We were labled as racists, bigots and in some cases, misgynists all ecause we supposedly supported a warped ultra-competent macho T'Challa "lording" if over Ororo as if she was some inexperienced wilting damsel in distress.

Some currently posting in this thread would have you believe that posters like myself and the other stalwart posters I mentioned, were all hugging Maberry's nuts when he was writing Doomwar but these selfsame wankers somehow seem to have developed amnesia when it comes to my having taken Maberry to task so much on the way in which Doomwar played out that I eventually got temporarily banned for getting into a verbal spat with Umbra due to the fact that (at that time) he was defending Maberry in the belief that things would improve before the Doomwar event ended.

Needless to say, the improvements and credible payoff never came as Maberry promised and the rest as they say, is history.

Jonathan Hickman on the otherhand, has promised nothing other than to deliver the best stories he knows how to, whilst utilizing characters who for the most part (T'Challa and Shang Chi) have been criminally marginalized within the 616 MU for a very long time.

Hickman's Avengers team is probably amongst one of the most ethnically/gender diverse teams in any of the books being put out by Marvel currently and his T'Challa front and centre New Avengers is a joy to read.

Which is basically, all I require from a well written periodical.

If Hickman decides to explore any kind of relationship between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru beyond that currently being played out in the pages of New Avengers that would be an interesting development especially when one considers that for the first time in history, avowed T'Challa haters and some of his "fans" who seem to prefer him treading paths he has already travelled seem to be united in their desire for T'Challa and the Albino Sumerian Princess to remain as adversaries.

I like to stay open minded to future possibilities and really have no time to endorse the same kind of blind bigotry that many of us decry some X-fans for engaging in ad nauseum.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 08:41:10 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

Vic, I know you know my posting history. I know you know how adamant I have been with respect to the issue of black/black character relationships - romantic and otherwise. I know that you can remember at least one instance in the many I have had discussing/debating this issue with "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body", where I have been accused of bigotry. I have been consistent and I still say, if Hickman is so inclined, I would welcome the development of a more tender relationship between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru if for nothing else than to shove it into the faces of those who have celebrated the white writer's perpetual emasculation of the Black Panther and black male characters while the white character Danny Rand is knocking up black female character Misty Knight.

Nah, they would rather he openly chase after a character he's not going to be with anymore. Or characters that are not showing up. I wanted Okoye, but she hasn't shown up since Priest run. T'challa shouldn't have to wait around for anything and he should have the same rules applied to him as Storm fans gave to her.

So it would seem, my dear brother...so it would seem. What is this? Hysterical Blindness or some shiznit? How can they look the using/abusing of Ororo by Wolverine...stare that lustful relationship right in the face, completely disregard Hudlin's attempt to establish a loving relationship between the Black Panther and Storm, to see black male character-emasculating white writers sabotague and destroy that effort, ignore all that and accuse US of throwing Storm over for Black Swan and enlisting in some stupid "snow bunny squad"? It's stupid as hell.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 27, 2013, 08:41:26 am
All this talk of Black Swan/Black Panther coupling, makes me wonder...no matter what she did I don't trust her, but that fits.  We could very well have a Batman/Black Cat relationship.  She's not good, but not out and out evil either.  She's not good for him, but he makes her better.  Makes for good tension.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 08:47:15 am
All this talk of Black Swan/Black Panther coupling, makes me wonder...no matter what she did I don't trust her, but that fits.  We could very well have a Batman/Black Cat relationship.  She's not good, but not out and out evil either.  She's not good for him, but he makes her better.  Makes for good tension.
Lol.



I suggested that she would be his Catwoman, but nah that makes me a sunnie bunny squad. I'm only interested in solid story telling.

Redjack gave the best advice. If you looking for relationships and black power couples. Don't look at it at the Big two.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 08:49:08 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

The bigoted aspect comes intot the equation when readers who are enjoying the interaction between Yabbat Ummon Tarru and T'Challa are described as being members of some mythical "snow bunny" brigade.

As a long time poster over in CBR and a regular poster within the myriad Black Panther Appreciation Threads over there, you're well aware of the fact that posters like myself, Umbra, Moneyspider, Marvell2100 and more than a few others, were 100% in support of the marriage and voiciferous defenders of Mr Hudlin's vision while he was writing the Black Panther monthly ongoing at that time.

We were labled as racists, bigots and in some cases, misgynists all ecause we supposedly supported a warped ultra-competent macho T'Challa "lording" if over Ororo as if she was some inexperienced wilting damsel in distress.

I suggested the more aggressive and natural development of black/black character relationships at cbr. The result was the cbr "war on sinjection". We shouldn't have to explain ourselves to those who should understand us most.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 27, 2013, 09:05:23 am
Did Catwoman tell her henchmen to open fire on children at point blank range while they were on a field trip in their own backyard called Wakanda?


Do the parents of these now missing children know that their former king is giving Jacob The Jeweler blinged out necklaces and flirting with this murderer?


Just a thought...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 09:11:28 am
Did Catwoman tell her henchmen to open fire on children at point blank range while they were on a field trip in their own backyard called Wakanda?


Do the parents of these now missing children know that their former king is giving Jacob The Jeweler blinged out necklaces and flirting with this murderer?


Just a thought...
Just a thought. Would you pine over a woman who attacked you with a Nazi and sleeps with a hairy troll?   ???
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Vic Vega on May 27, 2013, 09:12:28 am
Well, if we all accept the premise that there are no long term relationships at Marvel, other than Reed/Sue
it shouldnt be an issue of who does what with who.

Especially since many fans seem to find the soap stuff more interesting than the bad guy fighting stuff.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 27, 2013, 09:17:15 am
Well, if we all accept the premise that there are no long term relationships at Marvel, other than Reed/Sue
it shouldnt be an issue of who does what with who.

Really, nobody is WITH anybody. Storm (supposedly) slept with Wolverine. That doesn't make them a couple. In fact, not only have I not seen any evidence that this is the case, I haven't seen either character acknowledge that this actually even happened. And hell, BS hasn't even gotten THAT far.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 27, 2013, 09:19:56 am
Seven a woman attacking me with a nazi and sleeping with a hairy troll is a whole other type of fetish so I can't answer that on the grounds that I am in recovery from a whole mess of things! ;)


Killing kids at point blank range doesn't sit well with anyone of common decency no matter what their ex does in the privacy of their own Danger Room!


If you brought either woman home to your mother and explained how you met your mother might be sickened by your ex but very troubled by your next!


Your Moms: "Okay she likes hairy little men... But she shot babies... We're done here thank you sweetie buh bye now!"
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 09:23:56 am
Well, if we all accept the premise that there are no long term relationships at Marvel, other than Reed/Sue
it shouldnt be an issue of who does what with who.

Especially since many fans seem to find the soap stuff more interesting than the bad guy fighting stuff.

If we're all going to accept that premise then we should all also recognize the following as irrefutable fact:

From the pimp she encountered during her early days as seX-Man to the annulment of her Marriage to T'Challa and the resumption of her titillation caused by Wolverine's persistent lustful attentions and the apparent consumation of those attentions, white writers have evinced an unwavering determination to discourage Ororo's romantic involvements with black male characters. Any positive interraction Storm has had with black male characters have been written by black male writers.

The "soap opera stuff" does relate to "fighting stuff" in this aspect: Though he once wore a delightful powder blue minidress with matching headband accessory, his caustic attitude and the fact he's bedded Wasp, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Mockingbird, makes the Sherwood-forest level character Hawkeye, one of the most enduring favorites and considered one of Marvel's most capable and ferocious fighters. If the Black Panther can be emasculated in his relationship with his wife - whom white writers depict as casting aspersions against the Panther's sexual prowess - then how might his performances in other "manly activities" i.e. fighting be viewed...and in light of Maberry's absolute destruction of his manhood in the pages of doomwar.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 09:24:46 am
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.


Vic, I know you know my posting history. I know you know how adamant I have been with respect to the issue of black/black character relationships - romantic and otherwise. I know that you can remember at least one instance in the many I have had discussing/debating this issue with "absolutely no-motherf*cking-body", where I have been accused of bigotry. I have been consistent and I still say, if Hickman is so inclined, I would welcome the development of a more tender relationship between T'Challa and Yabbat Ummon Tarru if for nothing else than to shove it into the faces of those who have celebrated the white writer's perpetual emasculation of the Black Panther and black male characters while the white character Danny Rand is knocking up black female character Misty Knight.


Nah, they would rather he openly chase after a character he's not going to be with anymore. Or characters that are not showing up. I wanted Okoye, but she hasn't shown up since Priest run. T'challa shouldn't have to wait around for anything and he should have the same rules applied to him as Storm fans gave to her.


So it would seem, my dear brother...so it would seem. What is this? Hysterical Blindness or some shiznit? How can they look the using/abusing of Ororo by Wolverine...stare that lustful relationship right in the face, completely disregard Hudlin's attempt to establish a loving relationship between the Black Panther and Storm, to see black male character-emasculating white writers sabotague and destroy that effort, ignore all that and accuse US of throwing Storm over for Black Swan and enlisting in some stupid "snow bunny squad"? It's stupid as hell.


In my opinion, I believe Mr Hudlin actually succeded in creating a loving couple in T'Challa and Ororo.

They read well together on panel and you actually got to see Ororo as a real person (albeit within a fictional world) as opposed to the faux-character that she had been for many years within the X-books.

Mr Hudlin, gave her a gravitas and stately stature that made her a joy to read within the pages of BP and he did the one thing that the X-writers going all the way back to Claremont never did.......

Explore Ororo's African-American heritage.

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2njahhe.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2ezibv4.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/30b1yxv.jpg)

No other X-writer past or present ever bothered to delve into Ororo's past until Mr Hudlin came on the scene and deveoped a credible back story that actually filled in some of the gaping holes in Ororo's personal history.

And for that and stuff like this....

(http://i47.tinypic.com/10e54rb.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/jgt9g3.jpg)
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2lnjzgl.jpg)

....he got nothing but hate and non-stop bile from X-fans and a total lack of support from the X-Office and possibly Marvel Editorial.

The hand off to Jonathan Maberry was disasterous for the simple fact that it gave Maberry a platform from which to launch the accursed Doomwar and that was what began the long inexorable road to the events that occured during AvX and beyond the close of that particular event wherein the self same X-writers who had nothing positive to write about the couple when they were married, had free reign to completely trash the marriage and write in nonsense that just didn't make a lick of sense to service their story.

Some fools love to claim that I've "thrown Mr Hudlin under the bus" in favor of Jonathan Hickman but apart from the fact that such ridiculous assertions are patently false, why on earth would I not celebrate the fact that after all's been said and done, T'Challa now has a writer who (much like Mr Hudlin) actually wants to write him in a manner that befits his stature as a genius level, superior Warrior King?

The race, gender or ethnicity of a writer is of no relevance to me as long as they treat the characters their writing about with due respect and present them in a manner that's in line with their established characteristics.

Hickman is doing that right now and that's good enough for me.

I don't give a flying frak if a minority of bigots have a problem with that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 09:32:12 am
Nope. Paul Cornell confirmed that they ARE in a relationship and also got a slick dig in on T'challa. Frankly, I'm sick of the bull sh*t and drama that comes at his expense.
 
At C2E2 he was asked about Wolverine’s histoy of not maintaining long-lasting relationships with women... Cornell answered that he would be exploring Logan’s relationship with Storm,
which he said was...
Quote
“a really understanding one. They get each other, they’ve known each other for a very long time, and I like the idea that they give each other space, that she lets him be who he is and vice-versa.“

Look at what he is implying. Along with his Emasculation tour to Wakanda. You guys can have that. Enough is enough.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 09:36:02 am
Nope. Paul Cornell confirmed that they ARE in a relationship and also got a slick dig in on T'challa. Frankly, I'm sick of the bull sh*t and drama that comes at his expense.
 
At C2E2 he was asked about Wolverine’s histoy of not maintaining long-lasting relationships with women... Cornell answered that he would be exploring Logan’s relationship with Storm,which is
Quote
“a really understanding one. They get each other, they’ve known each other for a very long time, and I like the idea that they give each other space, that she lets him be who he is and vice-versa.“

Shook at what he is impling. Along with his Emasculation tour to Wakanda. You guys can have that.

Fools can stay lusting after that soap opera bullcrap.

I'll stick with Hickman's take on T'Challa and Wakanda thank you very much.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 09:39:27 am
Nope. Paul Cornell confirmed that they ARE in a relationship and also got a slick dig in on T'challa. Frankly, I'm sick of the bull sh*t and drama that comes at his expense.
 
At C2E2 he was asked about Wolverine’s histoy of not maintaining long-lasting relationships with women... Cornell answered that he would be exploring Logan’s relationship with Storm,which is
Quote
“a really understanding one. They get each other, they’ve known each other for a very long time, and I like the idea that they give each other space, that she lets him be who he is and vice-versa.“

Shook at what he is impling. Along with his Emasculation tour to Wakanda. You guys can have that.

Fools can stay lusting after that soap opera bullcrap.

I'll stick with Hickman's take on T'Challa and Wakanda thank you very much.
The same. The focus is pointed in the wrong direction. If anything the energy should be pointed at Storm and the X-office. But nah, Logan is ok.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 09:41:12 am
In my opinion, I believe Mr Hudlin actually succeded in creating a loving couple in T'Challa and Ororo.

They read well together on panel and you actually got to see Ororo as a real person (albeit within a fictional world) as opposed to the faux-character that she had been for many years within the X-books.

Mr Hudlin, gave her a gravitas and stately stature that made her a joy to read within the pages of BP and he did the one thing that the X-writers going all the way back to Claremont never did.......

Explore Ororo's African-American heritage.

([url]http://i45.tinypic.com/2njahhe.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i49.tinypic.com/2ezibv4.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/30b1yxv.jpg[/url])

No other X-writer past or present ever bothered to delve into Ororo's past until Mr Hudlin came on the scene and deveoped a credible back story that actually filled in some of the gaping holes in Ororo's personal history.

And for that and stuff like this....

([url]http://i47.tinypic.com/10e54rb.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/jgt9g3.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i50.tinypic.com/2lnjzgl.jpg[/url])

....he got nothing but hate and non-stop bile from X-fans and a total lack of support from the X-Office and possibly Marvel Editorial.

The hand off to Jonathan Maberry was disasterous for the simple fact that it gave Maberry a platform from which to launch the accursed Doomwar and that was what began the long inexorable road to the events that occured during AvX and beyond the close of that particular event wherein the self same X-writers who had nothing positive to write about the couple when they were married, had free reign to completely trash the marriage and write in nonsense that just didn't make a lick of sense to service their story.

Some fools love to claim that I've "thrown Mr Hudlin under the bus" in favor of Jonathan Hickman but apart from the fact that such ridiculous assertions are patently false, why on earth would I not celebrate the fact that after all's been said and done, T'Challa now has a writer who (much like Mr Hudlin) actually wants to write him in a manner that befits his stature as a genius level, superior Warrior King?

The race, gender or ethnicity of a writer is of no relevance to me as long as they treat the characters their writing about with due respect and present them in a manner that's in line with their established characteristics.

Hickman is doing that right now and that's good enough for me.

I don't give a flying frak if a minority of bigots have a problem with that.


Anyone reading this excellent post, anyone who could be aware that you, Seven, and other so-called "snow bunny squad" members vigorously defended Hudlin's work and promulgated the positive effect it had for bringing all black characters into prominence, promoting black/black relationships, and so forth...and denying this truth through the extremity of their own misguided attempts to discredit us, cannot be taken seriously.

If Bast (and Hickman), wills that it should be so: Behold! T'Challa, the Black Panther and his sparkling companion, having beauty without peer...the lovely Yabbat Ummon Tarru, the Black Swan. This "blazing saddle" of mine is become more comfortable by the second.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 27, 2013, 09:44:34 am
Nope. Paul Cornell confirmed that they ARE in a relationship and also got a slick dig in on T'challa. Frankly, I'm sick of the bull sh*t and drama that comes at his expense.
 
At C2E2 he was asked about Wolverine’s histoy of not maintaining long-lasting relationships with women... Cornell answered that he would be exploring Logan’s relationship with Storm,
which he said was...
Quote
“a really understanding one. They get each other, they’ve known each other for a very long time, and I like the idea that they give each other space, that she lets him be who he is and vice-versa.“

Look at what he is implying. Along with his Emasculation tour to Wakanda. You guys can have that. Enough is enough.

 :o  :o  :o ....ye GODS!!!!!

Oh well, heaven's forbid a single woman have sex...and all that rubbish.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 27, 2013, 10:06:35 am
I had forgotten about that Hickman Q and A and did not realize how many bases I touched!


Most of that "Passion" came from having the Black Panther cancelled during Black History Month and then the "Annulment of The Century" going down Jerry Springer style so I went all in!


In Hollywood I have seen projects no one ever heard of become overnight successes just because someone cared enough to do whatever needed to be done to make that happen!


This summer just as in the past projects with no real name attached will suddenly become household names because Pixar and Dreamworks basically "Manhattan Projected" them right onto little children's lunch boxes!


We are not talking about characters that have had a comic book head start since the 1930's but new things that someone somewhere cared enough about to push harder for!


How Hudlin got a Black Panther cartoon out with little help and cast that baby quite well (Djimon out the box straight like that) and I am supposed to accept less than that from someone who now has restrictions on what Marvel does when Reggie took such initiative!


Reggie Hudlin was a rookie writer that outsold everybody like ever on Black Panther and pulled off the first Black Power Couple that united the entire Marvel universe by default!


Did I mention Hudlin was a rookie???


At that time Djimon's name was floated around as a possible Black Panther candidate so what did Hudlin do other than give fans what they wanted!


Djimon: "Give us this free!"


Hickman is giving you the corporate answer with a lot of Marvel restrictions but Hudlin took initiatives that were not even part of the job description... The nerve and the balls on Hudlin!


Black Panel footage confirms Hudlin's "Point Man" status even though that title did not exist... Had you been there Hudlin repped the ish out of Black Panther above and beyond the call of duty!


Hudlin did not just sell the Black Panther as a writer he pushed the agenda hard despite internal blockage!


Did I mention Hudlin was a rookie writer?


I'm sorry Hudlin spoiled me with all that blackness I can't take the Marvel pipeline serious anymore... I raised a son on Hudlin's Panther who is receiving an academic excellence award this Wednesday as a genius level polymathic intellectual honor student!


Hickman also got a laugh out of my telling him to kick the Hatorade jug over at the Marvel summit meeting... But with the X-house TROLLING Black Panther with the Storm/Wolverine that message was not acted upon so here we are!


"Manhattan Project" is not a literal name but a concept where interested parties think tank something to death until the problem is solved... Look at how many Marvel persons like Whedon go hard after characters that are not even technically available through licensing but nary a mention of Black Panther who is readily available for movie duties!


With Black Panther it is always these excuses even when he is supposed to be on the radar... Hickman's three years plans apparently don't have a block for TROLLISH behavior from the X-house so what good is it?


I'm still  fan of Storm and just about done with the Zbrush sculpt I have of her and I did not buy AvX or practically any other comics so all that can be retconned later down the line!


Did I mention Hudlin was a rookie?








Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 27, 2013, 11:28:49 am
BmoreAkuma, I agree that some writers can be lackadaisical, especially in regards to properly researching the defining traits of the Black Panther. Primary among those the pyschology of an Afrakan warrior king of a Afrakan nation that has not been conquered and has maintained its distinctive cultural integrity.

It may seem simple to just ply the Game of Thrones approach, but look at the extensive in depth research that went into producing that level of quality. (Tangent- of course having a so called "Black" man repeat several times " I came from nothing but now I am the richest man in Ka'arth" only to reveal his vault to be empty says a little something).

For the Black Panther to approach Game of Throne's level the writer would have to do extensive resarch in Afrakan sovereignty; for example Ethiopia and the Soninke of Ghana both of which were never conquered by outside forces, the autonomous Quilombo and Maroon societies, the Si Mo of Baga who reside in West Afraka, the Ashanti who were never defeated on the battlefield.

Example for the Dora Milaje exist in reality as well. The researcher should explore Dahomey's all female warriors known as Mino. Study the Igbo Women's War aka the Aba Women's Revolt against the British in southeastern Nigeria. Such research helps to ensure a contextually rich story for the Black Panther.

The point being made is that Afrakans do not have to be made into a copy of ad hoc European kings with the tagline being this is universal.

Quote
"There are too many "types of black people" for a person to do a "black experience"

If I am interpreting this correctly... there doesn't have to be "a Black experience" but multiple experiences reflecting the vicissitudes of a people. What is "ridiculous and borderline stupid" is the penchant for defining Afrakan people in the abstract, such as people of color, Black people etc.

Seven, criticism is trademark for writers. Priest and Hudlin did some exemplary things with Black Panther but were subject to critique. Same applies to Hickman who is doing a good job on New Avengers.

That "average male" fluctuates statistically when "race" is applied. Yes BmoreAkuma, ethnicity, heritage, culture, genetics and group experiences do matter.

Sinjection1 your reply #337 evidenced your deft comprehension of what I was trying to convey.

Understood Maxine Shaw. I think with all the in story evidence Seven has shown and the fact that even Hudlin addressed this concern during his run; that Tchalla saying to her anyone but Wolverine has some weight... in story wise. Personally I would prefer Storm with Bishop as far as in house shopping goes if she is not going to be with Tchalla.

Spot on post #403 Vic Vega.
Well stated Salustrade in your #421 post
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 11:54:35 am
The thing is Ture. When did I ever say JH is above critisim?   :o I have never said. If its a valid critisim and it's *constructive* fine. But if I did say anything it's because it's not that. Priest and Hudlin got hated on and I defended them as well when it came to un-constructive nonsense.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 12:04:07 pm
Flex, JH is pretty much a rookie as well. Hudlin has FAR more clout outside of comicdom and experience. Dude has only been writing for six years, period. Hudlin was a success before Marvel and After. He didn't really need Marvel at all and we would still hear of him. JH is pretty much new, who started at Image and Bendis brought him to Marvel. His first gig was Secret Warriors a few years ago and first break FF (which he turned around).

I don't see why you feel the need to compare the two.  :o JH isn't sh*ting on Huldlin work and acting like it never occurred. He choose to build on top of it. Face it, he would know the industry better then you. He's right, they are not going to hire a editor for BP. I been telling you the same thing yet you still don't listen. It doesn't work the way you are talking about. It's not just BP.

JH has zero to do with Hudlin. They are two different writers and he's not trashing Hudlin stuff. He's trying to do the same, put him in position for success.

Instead of all that. Listen to Redjack, dude. It's not going to change over night. I rather ask Mr. Hudlin to write something for Image.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 27, 2013, 12:10:35 pm
All this talk of Black Swan/Black Panther coupling, makes me wonder...no matter what she did I don't trust her, but that fits.  We could very well have a Batman/Black Cat relationship.  She's not good, but not out and out evil either.  She's not good for him, but he makes her better.  Makes for good tension.
Well she did kill his own people while he is so adamant in killing namor for doing the same thing. Does not compute. You're right I dont trust her either.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 27, 2013, 12:19:37 pm
Understood Maxine Shaw. I think with all the in story evidence Seven has shown and the fact that even Hudlin addressed this concern during his run; that Tchalla saying to her anyone but Wolverine has some weight... in story wise. Personally I would prefer Storm with Bishop as far as in house shopping goes if she is not going to be with Tchalla.

It just pisses me off. Storm with Wolverine pisses me off in ways that I can't even put into words. It just feels like a DOUBLE f*ck you to the Black Panther fanbase, if possible. Of all the goddamn people in the world...sh*t, I would accept Davy "Slipstream" Cameron before I would respect this.

Oh, and lesson for the fellas: if a woman tells you to screw her before she changes her mind, DON'T. A woman who basically says "f*ck me before I change my mind" is a woman who is already regretting the decision she is about to make. She wants to hurry up and get this sh*t over with for reasons that she will not tell you about. No REAL man would listen to a thing like that and be flattered to fulfill her request. "Yes" is not good enough - one must listen for an enthusiastic yes.

Wolverine should have turned her down cold in the name of their friendship. He should have told her that he wouldn't have sex with her unless she was absolutely sure that's what she wanted to do. "Hurry up" is not the request of a woman who is sure of herself! Logan should have told her, "Not like this. Not under these circumstances." I want to give him a little bit of leeway in that we never saw what happened. I want to believe that Wolverine cherishes their friendship too much to treat her like some random chick, even if she was acting like one. (I can forgive Storm for such a stupid act; we've all acted random at some point in our lives.)

At the very least, I want to think that Logan had too much pride to jump all over T'Challa's leftovers! It's not like he was doing it because he loved her all this time and was just waiting for his chance - that, I could forgive. But if he f*cked Storm under the circumstances of being some sort of mercy f*ck? I'll hate him forever. You do not take advantage of your friends, and that is obviously what Wolverine did: took advantage of Storm, who basically instructed him to take advantage of her while he could. I expect my true friends to treat me better than that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 27, 2013, 12:30:03 pm
Seven what has Hudlin ever done before Marvel except steal my House Party idea because his East Boogie goons are bigger than mine! :)


What I'm saying is look at what Hudlin was up against versus what Hickman is up against!


Now as far as the editor thing goes who knows what Disney might force since they spent money on a script and have a Black Panther movie buzz popping up in different places!


Other have separate offices and the question would be is that option on the table to push for just as Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are teased about!


There are all type of weird things that happen in Hollywood creating new gigs up overnight all the time!


Years ago if someone suggested a Black Panther cartoon that would have been considered foolish... And then Hudlin happened!


I never dreamed of doing digital sculpting for animation and toy making but in between TROLLING I have been getting my inner Mshindo on playing around with some stuff in under a year... Marvel could make halftime adjustments if they see a real value in Black Panther!


I still believe a Manhattan Project creative team down the line with Hudlin, Priest maybe, Kevin Grevioux, Quesada, Hickman, Alonso and whatnot having a think tank together and going over the many successes and failures of Black Panther and then setting the ship on course!


This is not a new thing it just has not happened for Black Panther as a collective and cohesive whole!


On another note I was watching Batman Beyond the episode where the new Batman was asked to "Spy" on the League by Superman... Wonder where they got that idea!





Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 27, 2013, 12:33:32 pm
It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.

It's rare when I agree with VV so when I do find those times I like to point them out. I haven't read every issue of New Avengers but I don't get what's so great about Black Swan.

It would be good to see Black Panther in a relationship, one that is well developed and can show different facets of his character while still respecting him and being true to his character, but from some of these comments I've been reading it just seems like some folks are just in a rush to have him hook up with Black Swan.

And while interracial relationships are okay, it's something that seems far more prevalent in comics and the media than it is in actual life. There's a noble aspect to that, but also one that isn't so noble. Because on one hand it's great to see different people build something together on said differences. However I often feel it goes one way, with the non-white person assimilating into the dominant white world.

For Black Panther, a character that symbolizes black strength and possibility, I would prefer he date a black woman, or a woman of color at least. I think it sends positive reinforcement. I know during Priest's run he had a relationship with a white woman, but that was something in the past.

But geez, it seems like most black characters in Marvel are dating, married, or hooking up with a non-black person. For the white writers and some of the readers that situation might make them feel good, noble, and progressive. That they are seeing beyond race or that love has no color or whatever. The message that sends me is that black people can't be happy together, that there is something defective or unattractive about blacks that makes them always seek love or understanding in the arms of a person who doesn't look like them.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 02:35:30 pm
Seven what has Hudlin ever done before Marvel except steal my House Party idea because his East Boogie goons are bigger than mine! :)


What I'm saying is look at what Hudlin was up against versus what Hickman is up against!


Now as far as the editor thing goes who knows what Disney might force since they spent money on a script and have a Black Panther movie buzz popping up in different places!


Other have separate offices and the question would be is that option on the table to push for just as Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are teased about!


There are all type of weird things that happen in Hollywood creating new gigs up overnight all the time!


Years ago if someone suggested a Black Panther cartoon that would have been considered foolish... And then Hudlin happened!


I never dreamed of doing digital sculpting for animation and toy making but in between TROLLING I have been getting my inner Mshindo on playing around with some stuff in under a year... Marvel could make halftime adjustments if they see a real value in Black Panther!


I still believe a Manhattan Project creative team down the line with Hudlin, Priest maybe, Kevin Grevioux, Quesada, Hickman, Alonso and whatnot having a think tank together and going over the many successes and failures of Black Panther and then setting the ship on course!


This is not a new thing it just has not happened for Black Panther as a collective and cohesive whole!


On another note I was watching Batman Beyond the episode where the new Batman was asked to "Spy" on the League by Superman... Wonder where they got that idea!

I'm saying it doesn't matter if both want the character succeed. That is all that matters right now. Everything JH has wrote so far has paid respect to Priest and Hudlin contributions to Black Panther. That's rare, since most writers ignore things from one or the other. He's the person writing him now. Instead of always focusing on the past, how about a eye toward the future?

Hudlin doesn't need anyone to call out his accomplishments. They all speaks for itself. His impact can never be discounted or taken away. I just don't see how it matters. They are in two different situations each with its own differing challenges.

You might not think its a big deal, but getting T'challa as the lead man in New Avengers and the most important book in the Avenger line is big. It's huge. And it continues the positive work that modern Panther writers like Priest and Hudlin have done.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 03:56:19 pm

It's rare when I agree with VV so when I do find those times I like to point them out. I haven't read every issue of New Avengers but I don't get what's so great about Black Swan.


(http://i39.tinypic.com/1zavrs.jpg)

It's all in the dialogue. (for the most part)

I can't remember the last time an original female character with this level of independent gravitas, was launched who didn't have a previous attachement to the X-men/Avengers paradigm.

She's mysterious, darkly manipulative and somewhat machiavellan which makes her something of a warped mirror image reflection of T'Challa. (poker face and all.)

Hickman has gifted her with a voice that I and more than a few others find interesting so that's what makes her something of a "big deal" to me as far as characters go.



It would be good to see Black Panther in a relationship, one that is well developed and can show different facets of his character while still respecting him and being true to his character, but from some of these comments I've been reading it just seems like some folks are just in a rush to have him hook up with Black Swan.


That's your perception (which you are of course entitled to) but have you considered the possibility that future interaction between Yabbat Ummon Tarru may bring hitherto unseen facets of T'Challa's character to the fore?

As Seven has pointed out, she obviously recognizes T'Challa for who he is....

(http://i41.tinypic.com/fxuvdz.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2i8f1qq.jpg)

even as she either dismisses other members of the Illuminati....

(http://i40.tinypic.com/5d8aoh.jpg)

or this stony faced chump....

(http://i34.tinypic.com/24438z6.jpg)

You get the general impression that she's more focused on T'Challa as someone she needs to pay extra attention to moreso for the very pertinent fact that T'Challa is yet to speak to her without his mask off.

She's intrigued by his poker face and thus, is made all the more interesting to some readers who expect more from a character than soap opera inspired foibles.

Whether she gets into a passing liaison or something slightly longer term is neither here nor there, but the electricity between the two characters is fairly obvious.

B-Swizzle is also a major cornerstone of the current arc so yea, it goes without saying that some of us are intrigued as to what's going to go down between her and T'Challa especially as regards the killing of his young charges in NA#1.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 04:18:41 pm
I can't wait to see this...

(http://i44.tinypic.com/11c9vub.jpg)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 27, 2013, 04:33:41 pm
I can't wait to see this...

([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/11c9vub.jpg[/url])


Me either. I also agree with the post above. She is a solid character with a lot of potential and she's the leading lady of NA going forward. T'challa isn't showing up else where and the solo is not happening.

Screw the eunuch, BS.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 27, 2013, 04:38:32 pm
I can't wait to see this...

([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/11c9vub.jpg[/url])


Me either. I also agree with the post above. She is a solid character with a lot of potential and she's the leading lady of NA going forward. T'challa isn't showing up else where and the solo is not happening.

Screw the eunuch, BS.


Word.  8)

And just put a smile on your faces before I turn in for the night.....

(http://i39.tinypic.com/2vvvms7.jpg)


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 27, 2013, 06:44:52 pm
Again Salustrade your post preempts mine. Just so you know my next post is in no way directed at you or anyone else for that matter. One has to be careful to avoid misunderstandings. Having said that your summation of Black Swan was very well stated. I just wish that kind of detail was focused on an Afrakan woman. Like you I too  anxiously await what I hope will be an epic battle.

Quote
The thing is Ture. When did I ever say JH is above criticsim?    I have never said. If its a valid critisim and it's *constructive* fine. But if I did say anything it's because it's not that. Priest and Hudlin got hated on and I defended them as well when it came to un-constructive nonsense.

It was not my intention to imply that you did Seven. Your arguments are well grounded. I was referring to myself in that regard.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Ture on May 27, 2013, 11:37:02 pm
I shall most certainly heed your wisdom if circumstances should ever warrant such a lesson Maxine Shaw. The Storm/ Wolverine relationship like all the Black Panther involved events post Hudlin have been directed at correcting what I ironically termed the "Many Mistakes of Reginald Hudlin."

The evidence of the two of them showing some affection towards one another not withstanding, their relationship appears rushed and hollow. Something Hudlin was accused of ironically. It almost feels like the X-writers are reading the Panther boards and finding ways to further diminish Black Panther and Storm by doing the very opposite of what many of us site as necessary character development.

You brought a very interesting point earlier Max (if I may call you that?)

Quote
You know what? I think Marvel knows that they f*cked up, and that's why they keep this door open.


This was mirroed by infernohara over at CBR who was pondering something similar.

Quote
Serious Question: Do ya'll think Marvel realized they dropped the ball on BP and Storm and maybe actually want to make it right? I know a lot of you don't care for Storm at the moment, but both characters are in particular well written hands at the moment. I've tried really really really hard to agree with some of ya'll points on other characters with T'challa and I just don't see anyone else with him. I've tried hard here, but I can't see characters like Misty, Monica or even B-swizzle at the moment actually being in a relationship with him. Its so strange, but Storm and T'challa was like gold!! It was just a jelling that sadly wasn't handled well mostly on Storm's end since X-writers really didn't have no use for her (hence him not really showing up in her books). The jury is out, but I do think Marvel plans on putting them back together....haterz beware.

With two writers that actually ENJOY and SPEAK HIGHLY of the characters (one of which having keys to the kingdom) it could be very different from what came before. I see this more as a break than anything else. I'm excited for the possibilities for both of them whether they're together or not. Its been at least a decade since either of them were a Big deal.


Marvel editorial must have been doing some heavy forward thinking if this was to be the case. It would almost be as if Storm was pregnant and due to the annulment she confided in Wolverine her close friend and confidant. Now they come to Wakanda together to tell Tchalla the news. Wolverine is there only as a friend and support. It could happen...right? ;)

For this I quote you Maxine Shaw
Quote
Wolverine should have turned her down cold in the name of their friendship. Logan should have told her, "Not like this. Not under these circumstances." I want to believe that Wolverine cherishes their friendship too much to treat her like some random chick, even if she was acting like one.

You do not take advantage of your friends, and that is obviously what Wolverine did: took advantage of Storm, who basically instructed him to take advantage of her while he could. I expect my true friends to treat me better than that.


For all those who speak out for minority representation and diversity in comic books; the dating, romance, sexual intimacy, matrimony and comradarie between two Afrakans (so called Blacks) needs your voice, for they are most certainly a minority.The argument need not digress into the merits or lack there of for inter racial coupling, they got theirs. There are more inter racial couples than Afrakans (so called Blacks) in comic books.

I understand the Elderidge Cleaver Soul On Ice perspective of the revenge of the Black Eunuchs but I lean more towards the Haki R. Madhubuti's approach to "black" love. This is not aimed at anyone!! I prefer the discourse of ideas, perspectives and ideologies not personal attacks though they too have their place. For all those who appreciate "black" love I mean Black Panther love the following is for you.

Remember The Times.

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew2.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew3.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew4.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew5.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew6.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew7.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew8.jpg)

And how it all began with Storm.

(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew11.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew10.jpg)
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew9.jpg)

I will end with what I consider two strong post that reflect well on the subject at hand.

It isn't about bigotry as much as it is about being consistent.

This time 3 years ago (and even before that) heads were decrying the lack of Black couples in
comics. You had to rack your brain to even think of a example of one that wasn't in the 70's.

Then the Photon/Brother Voodoo pairing ended when Voodoo got killed off. And many of us were
complaining that you barely ever saw Tchalla and Storm in the same room together and they were pretty much
Newlyweds still.

So now the Xoffice has snatched Storm back for thier exclusive use. And character assassinations aside nobody should have been too surprised at that. Xfans don't care about anything outside the Xverse.

So in reaction to that, what are we seeing? "Hooray, Black Swan"?

How does that match up with the desire to see more Black couples in comics?

A "Let's get Monica Lynn back" movement would be consistent.

Folks shipping BP/Photon would be consistent (and let's be real here, zero f*cks are given about Photon in the Avengers office. There would be no fan backlash like there was with Storm and even if there was Photon hasn't ever been on tv so Marvel doesn't care.)

Black Swan is effectively a White Character whatever bizarre origins she has. I have no
problem with that. I was suggesting Thundra the other day.

But if you wanted to see BP/Storm as a couple not just because Storm is a big deal but because
you wanted to see a Black couple together in comics period (let alone a Black couple that mattered storywise) there's
nothing in Black Swan for you.

Since that was pretty much the default opinion on the matter around here not that long ago,
I don't see how holding that position now is bigoted when it wasn't then.


It's rare when I agree with VV so when I do find those times I like to point them out. I haven't read every issue of New Avengers but I don't get what's so great about Black Swan.

It would be good to see Black Panther in a relationship, one that is well developed and can show different facets of his character while still respecting him and being true to his character, but from some of these comments I've been reading it just seems like some folks are just in a rush to have him hook up with Black Swan.

And while interracial relationships are okay, it's something that seems far more prevalent in comics and the media than it is in actual life. There's a noble aspect to that, but also one that isn't so noble. Because on one hand it's great to see different people build something together on said differences. However I often feel it goes one way, with the non-white person assimilating into the dominant white world.

For Black Panther, a character that symbolizes black strength and possibility, I would prefer he date a black woman, or a woman of color at least. I think it sends positive reinforcement. I know during Priest's run he had a relationship with a white woman, but that was something in the past.

But geez, it seems like most black characters in Marvel are dating, married, or hooking up with a non-black person. For the white writers and some of the readers that situation might make them feel good, noble, and progressive. That they are seeing beyond race or that love has no color or whatever. The message that sends me is that black people can't be happy together, that there is something defective or unattractive about blacks that makes them always seek love or understanding in the arms of a person who doesn't look like them.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 28, 2013, 04:53:59 am
Ture, as a child an Uncle once told me this...paraphrasing: "Once a man controls another man's woman, he controls that man and the white man has taken the black man's woman and has controlled her since slavery." In the words of one of the greatest women who has walked this planet, Mary Mcleod Bethune: "The true worth of a race must be measured by the character of its womanhood."

What has Marvel Comics done regarding the character of black womanhood, the character and depiction of black males and black male/black female relationships?

One need look no further than the destruction of the Marriage. Unlike Spider-Man/Mary Jane, Mephisto wasn't involved and if he was, it was the white seX-Men writers reprising the role of Mephisto.

My time is short at the moment, brother. I'll be back later to talk more Black Panther, Black Swan, New Avengers, Storm, and other black characters. However, I will beg your indulgence and that of all of you as I will attempt - in my usual, stumbling way - to expound on what I'm trying to convey in my opening statements.

 :o   ;D  GAHHHhahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!!

Thank you, brother Salustrade. I've been missing my brother Mastrmynd and was in desperate need of a light moment  :)

And just put a smile on your faces before I turn in for the night.....

([url]http://i39.tinypic.com/2vvvms7.jpg[/url])
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 05:10:35 am
Remember the Big Surprise Nick Lowe X-editor proclaimed at the SDCC? I asked him what was the big surprise for black panther fans. His reply was that was it. Meaning the Annualment.

Infernohara is dope. If more X-men were like her, intellegent and that thoughtful the marriage would have survived...you would have them demanding respect for the marriage.

If they did that, there would be the question of who's kid is it! Logan or T'challa's. After all there was a time skip, so it might not be possible. Not even taking not account Paul Cornell's own words and also his implied intentions.

You just have to ask, is it worth it...for T'challa? To want him in a toxic environment and situation with a creditive division (continued) trolling him on the regular? Hickman was about to fight for the hidden relationship for fans, because he saw the potential. But honestly, it wasn't worth it for T'challa. In the X-world, T'challa would not have been mentioned and when mentioned on in a good way. And continues Age of X and X-men : Forever styled trolling. It wasn't worth it. He would see her on the low, while she was doing whatever over there?


T'challa is better then that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 28, 2013, 06:57:26 am
In the early 1900's, boxing was a principal indicator of manly attributes. The Heavyweight Champion was highly esteemed and feared as the best fighter in the entire world. This perception endured well into the 20th century, beginning its wane when the Great Champions: Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Norton, and their most worthy adversaries - Ernie Shavers, and the like - aged and retired.

In the early days, boxing was a white man's diversion. When Jack Johnson upset their little private party, the white man had to accept the truth, a truth which he's had to bitterly swallow each time a Jesse Owens, a Doug Williams, or a LeBron James displayed athletic excellence. The black man is every bit the physical/athletic equal of the white man, if not his superior. Where could certain white males determined to hold on to a fantasy of white male physical dominance turn? Well, the comic book fantasy world for one. There Superman held sway...and eventually, even Superman would be pitted against Muhammad Ali.

In comicbooks, Captain America never lost a fight to the Black Panther unless a black writer wrote it so. In comicbooks, sexy white women would never have sex with a black man until Hudlin's Cage lamented losing a favorite couch of his in a fight, "favorite" because he'd "had" the Black Cat on it. A white writer might soon retcon that episode as simply a wet dream about the Black Cat Cage had dreamed on that sofa. In the comicbooks, it could be expected that beautiful black females would find the white male irresistable, even if that white male is a gnome apparently in desperate need of a barber and a pet groomer. Danny Rand has enjoyed a long-time loving relationship with the black and beautiful Misty Knight while his partner Cage finds love in the arms of looked-like-she-done-bin-kicked-in-the-face-by-a-mule Jewel/Jessica Jones---surely the white man's cast off.

A Black King's marriage to a gorgeous black woman is extinguished and shortly afterward, seX-Men writers - who have a history of killing a black male (Synch), before he could enjoy the pleasure of romance with the lovely mutant Monet St Croix and who wrote the white mutant Quentin Quire shaming a black male mutant in the presence of his black girlfriend who rejected that black male mutant on the spot and eventually hooked up with Quire - marry a Black man to a white man. And as I understand to be the case, Monet St Croix is taken with perhaps the ugliest white male mutant ever created..."Strong Man."

Storm is a seX-Man. The writers have written that she prefers her seX-family to her ex-husband, her biological family, and to her once lofty status as Queen of Wakanda/most important mutant in the world. So be it. T'Challa is not a eunuch and need not be written as such. When T'Challa had been seriously injured and suffered a loss of memory, did Monica Lynne support him and wait for the day of his recovery when they could again be together? No. During that interval, Monica fell in love with and became engaged to white reporter Kevin Trublood.

As Seven has said. Enough. T'Challa was created before Storm, but because he is unmistakably black, a powerful male wearing an enigmatic, dynamic black costume - the best in comics IMO, and called the Black Panther, he has suffered as Storm never had to. I want to see better things for T'Challa...the unequivocal, irrefutable, indisputable victories over his enemies Dr. Doom and Namor. I want him to crush the Wolverine and yes, Storm herself if she dares get in his way. And I want to see T'Challa with a female love interest that is his and his alone. I won't cry or die if it happens that the female love interest is a beautiful, sensual white woman.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 28, 2013, 08:08:12 am
Honestly you guys have to stop doing this to yourselves. They say "never say never" but a Storm/T'Challa reunion is as close to never as you will find. The Avengers side may see them as a missed opportunity but aside from Aaron you won't find one current X Verse writer or editor to have uttered a single word in that regard. They don't see it that way. They don't care about Storm and they're pretty happy with the status quo. Storm had the most story going into Marvel Now and she has done NOTHING but get a crazy haircut. It took half a year after split to even  talk. What about her and her ex-mother-in-law? Shuri? Where was the making things right with Wakanda story?

If Marvel was intent on "fixing" them and correcting mistakes  AvX WAS the perfect chance. Actually I thought that was what they would do. I thought the end result was them getting a fresh start. I thought they would be the Uncanny Avengers. Nope. Quite the opposite. In fact things are worse as they wipe their feet on the them that was.

So she and Logan are essentially f--- buddies?. OK if that works for them... I'd like to see the Swan and T'Challa be f--- buddies... She needs a home, he needs a ruthless ally...
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 28, 2013, 08:24:34 am
So she and Logan are essentially f--- buddies?. OK if that works for them... I'd like to see the Swan and T'Challa be f--- buddies... She needs a home, he needs a ruthless ally...

Storm suffers at the vindictive, capriciousness of the seX-Men pukeiverse. This is why she is merely Wolverine's insignificant something-to-do-until-Jean-Grey-is-resurrected, instead of Queen of Wakanda and most important mutant in the world...something one should think any self-respecting Ororo fan would want for her.

T'Challa doesn't need a "f--- buddy". Not presuming to speak for all Black Panther fans, but I for one - and I hope the others - see the Black Panther on a level of moral dignity, intelligence and grace higher than Wolverine could ever attain in his best year of the immortal ignominy he seems to be desperate to preserve by invading Wakanda.

If Storm was "too good" to be the Queen of Wakanda and the wife of a boring bed partner, I think the beauteous Black Swan is more than deserving of her opportunity. T'Challa thinks more of women than to regard them as a mere "f--- buddy".
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 08:28:50 am
Ture you are now on probation for all that black porn! ;)


This is what makes Hudlin a legend... He went all in on the black love with no teasers or innuendoes just straight tornadically intertwined love making!


If Marvel had control of my marriage my African wife would be in an affair with Danny Devito!


This is why I don't praise any of the current regime of Fanbratti writers because all they have ever proven is the ability to write the same old white male maverick characters and fell short on the black love part when it was put before them!


With the exception of Tarantino they always flinch up at the moment of truth depicting a black power couple which is like a pseudo kryptonite for their writer's block!


I told Hickman that he could be just someone passing through or become a legend like Tarantino, Bill Clinton or Eminem by fully embracing black culture and getting all up in the mix!


Right now he has the praises of a few black comic fans but not something where black barbershops are checking for his next drop or asking him to speak at black functions yet!


Tarantino said FRAK it Django kill those white sons of beyotches who had it coming...


Bill Clinton said FRAK Rush Limbaugh and them I'm endorsing the Million Man March lead by Farrakhan for the brothas...


Eminem said FRAK it I'm claiming this Hip Hop culture so much so that I'm putting brothas on and praising old school legends...


Hickman says well uhm if I can't have Storm I'll just give you B-Swizzy as a consolation prize...


Tarantino: "What'd you just say? A black man should go get his woman til the ends of the earth!"

Clinton: "So Storm is not at the BBQ?"

Eminem: "You got to lose yourself in the moment dawg and speak up better!"

Hickman: "But they said I couldn't have her..."

Tarantino: "Who the FRAK is they?"

Hickman: "Editorial!"

Eminem: "You're kidding me right? They punked you that easy without a fight?"

Clinton: "So no black women at the BBQ huh? Hey Halle..."


Hickman has fans from Ironman, The Fantastic Four and the X-men with some Black Panther fans along for the ensemble New Avengers ride but outside of that I don't think you can go too many places among blacks that are checking for his take on Black Panther which is crucial for him to get a solo comic that won't get cancelled by issue #9!


Hudlin on the other hand had ample "black" Black Panther fans and if that BET debacle had not happened for the cartoon he might still be in play as the "Point Man" of the franchise!


I personally miss someone who loved the character enough to rep him to the fullest even beyond the writing duties!


Tell the truth Reggie... That Black Panther video game (Other than the movie) was your next move I can smell it! 8)


This is planet earth you have to speak up for the brothas before they give you full props across the board!


Legend or just passing through until the next gig?

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 28, 2013, 09:03:29 am
For all those who speak out for minority representation and diversity in comic books; the dating, romance, sexual intimacy, matrimony and comradarie between two Afrakans (so called Blacks) needs your voice, for they are most certainly a minority.The argument need not digress into the merits or lack there of for inter racial coupling, they got theirs. There are more inter racial couples than Afrakans (so called Blacks) in comic books.

As always Ture, you are absolutely right. I must say this one more time...for a long time, I was a single voice in a sea of cbr "no-motherf*cking-body" demanding...all while being reviled as a bigot, racist, homophobe, and things I was called in PM that I won't discuss...demanding there be more relationships between black characters.

I was tired of Tyrone Johnson chasing after skinny little Tandy Bowen. I wanted Tyrone with a Rhianna lookalike or, if the need for "living light" was the problem, what about Bishop's sister, Shard? She's entirely composed of light, isn't she? Shard is/was the plaything of white mutant Fitzroy. And even the hated Namor once entertained a love interest with the lovely black female, Carrie Alexander.

Presently, I am becoming increasingly and solely interested in the elevation of T'Challa in every aspect of his character that would make him a character Marvel fans of all stripes want to read and support.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 28, 2013, 09:32:12 am
(http://pyakule.com/blackpanther/blackpantherlove/toure_bpnew3.jpg)

Oh, my...whew! (And yes, Max is fine.)

So she and Logan are essentially f--- buddies?. OK if that works for them... I'd like to see the Swan and T'Challa be f--- buddies... She needs a home, he needs a ruthless ally...


Oh, yeah. Brilliant idea. Let's counter dragging one black character into the gutter by dragging TWO black characters into the gutter!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 28, 2013, 10:03:26 am
I'm sorry I don't consider consensual sex between to grown people "the gutter".
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 28, 2013, 10:04:27 am
I'm sorry I don't consider consensual sex between to grown people "the gutter".

Neither do I.  I think there's a bit of a disconnect when it comes to sexuality and these two characters.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 28, 2013, 10:13:03 am
I'm sorry I don't consider consensual sex between to grown people "the gutter".

Even when it's (GASP) a woman? Because people really, REALLY have a problem with that here.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 10:55:32 am
Honestly you guys have to stop doing this to yourselves. They say "never say never" but a Storm/T'Challa reunion is as close to never as you will find. The Avengers side may see them as a missed opportunity but aside from Aaron you won't find one current X Verse writer or editor to have uttered a single word in that regard. They don't see it that way. They don't care about Storm and they're pretty happy with the status quo. Storm had the most story going into Marvel Now and she has done NOTHING but get a crazy haircut. It took half a year after split to even  talk. What about her and her ex-mother-in-law? Shuri? Where was the making things right with Wakanda story?

If Marvel was intent on "fixing" them and correcting mistakes  AvX WAS the perfect chance. Actually I thought that was what they would do. I thought the end result was them getting a fresh start. I thought they would be the Uncanny Avengers. Nope. Quite the opposite. In fact things are worse as they wipe their feet on the them that was.

So she and Logan are essentially f--- buddies?. OK if that works for them... I'd like to see the Swan and T'Challa be f--- buddies... She needs a home, he needs a ruthless ally...


There is nothing wrong with Storm and Logan. Or Storm with whomever. I wish Marvel wasn't so stupid and could not see the potential they had. That the X-office is basically a anti-black male fantasy (Bishop and Storm? Not gonna happen).

But Storm and Logan ARE NOT f*ck buddies. They are IN a relationship!

Repost:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope. Paul Cornell confirmed that they ARE in a relationship and also got a slick dig in on T'challa. Frankly, I'm sick of the bull sh*t and drama that comes at his expense.
 
At C2E2 he was asked about Wolverine’s histoy of not maintaining long-lasting relationships with women... Cornell answered that he would be exploring Logan’s relationship with Storm,
which he said was...

Quote
“a really understanding one. They get each other, they’ve known each other for a very long time, and I like the idea that they give each other space, that she lets him be who he is and vice-versa.“

Look at what he is implying. Along with his Emasculation tour to Wakanda. You guys can have that. Enough is enough.

Basically, T'challa didn't allow her to be herself, he didn't allow her space and they didn't get each other. All the while implying that T'challa is a villain.

You can have that. keep Storm away from T'challa. Her caretakers...the X-office have issues with Black Men.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 11:03:18 am
I'm sorry I don't consider consensual sex between to grown people "the gutter".
QFT. There nothing gutter about anything.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 11:49:05 am
Seven you are gonna love my Storm sculpt! :)


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 11:52:20 am
Cool. Are you going to use these in a game mod?  :) or just practice.
I'm have been pondering doing somethings.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 11:56:39 am
Scandal is beating freaking American Idol in ratings!

http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/ratings-rat-race-idol-rises-scandal-hits-series-high-glee-two-men-finales-down-office-up/ (http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/ratings-rat-race-idol-rises-scandal-hits-series-high-glee-two-men-finales-down-office-up/)

It's written by a clearly talented black woman. She doing her.

If race and black love is a pressing need (and I think it is) why are we focused on T'challa and not the so-called "money maker" and most popular black character in comics as they tell it...Storm?

 ???
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 12:23:08 pm
One of the cool things about fictional characters is that they never really have to worry about STD's and other real world bodily fluid exchanges!


Imagine if the KKK wrote Black Panther and went far worse than Roy Thomas did... You can refuse to purchase and just wait it out until a new regime came in!


In answer to your question Seven I have been using Black Panther and Storm as practice for my character Flex Hectic and to TROLL on an extravagant level beyond the normal standard issue rants! ;)


It throws people off balance when you say something that makes no sense whatsoever and then turn around and post pics like you mastered high end software overnight on some genius level intellectual polymathic freestyle!


However, they can be imported into a video game if I took the time but that would only be standby for if Marvel put me in charge of Black Panther in some twist of fate fluke!


I have been in intense online tutorial training with Lightwave software for animation so expect some things soon!


And don't ponder doing something... Just dive in and learn as you go you have my full support!


You have one year from now to plan to set up a booth at next years Black Comic Book Convention... Me and wifey will be attending West Angeles Church real soon on a Sunday just to scope out the location and see who I know that can get me in touch with who else I need to know to make this happen!


We need this... Like real bad!

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 12:30:53 pm
Well I do. Otherwise it would end up half assed. If i do it i want it to be the best. What I'm talking about will take a lot of time and investment! Just saying. So I'm pondering if its worth it, because I would not get paid doing it. Understand?

The X-office has been the same from the start. So if I were you, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting. Especially with Marvel domination in both comics and movies.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 02:00:17 pm
But Seven you have to pay attention to trends when they get ready to get started!


What Hudlin did was expose certain things beneath the surface at Marvel that many never knew existed or ignored!


A picture is worth 1000 words... So now with all the fully illustrated panels of the Jerry Springer style annulment you have proof available to prove whatever you wanted to prove!


But at the same time Hudlin also revealed who was an ally on the inside of Marvel because he did get approval to marry Storm to Black Panther one way or another!


There were acknowledgements here and there like The Super Hero Squad cartoon showing T'challa and Ororo as boyfriend and girlfriend and The Next Avengers with their son Azzari whose mother was obviously Storm even though not technically mentioned!


I'm not saying that there needs to be a Martin Luther King or Malcolm X of comics but if the right person at the right time mentioned race in comics and really went there it could put Marvel and DC under the spotlight so bad that changes were made before the public at large!


If we pull off the Black Comic Book Convention successfully somewhere that type of person could arise that says what you or I may not have it in us to say for business reasons where they are a certified freelancing comic book black militant!


Maj could be that if he were willing to live on the outskirts like Killmonger terrorizing Marvel and Disney execs at random or it could be another brotha somewhere not yet discovered!


I remember running into Vincent Moore in the restroom after the Black Panel recalling him as the one who blasted the panel as "Niggapalooza" in a blog!


Maybe we need someone not one of us or on our payroll who calls us out on things just to remind us how to do it right!



And with your intellect I seriously doubt that you would do anything half @$$ed... Poorly drawn South Park is just as famous as well drawn super heroes so it's not the art but the spirit behind it!


Being the best is an illusion and sometimes fools gold... Be you instead! 8)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 02:22:27 pm
Reggie how often do you holla at Priest?


http://lamerciepark.com/comics/panther/ (http://lamerciepark.com/comics/panther/)


I'll be your personal trainer for 3 free sessions if you get him to post in here!


That includes abs, stretching and cardio... ;D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 03:38:01 pm
I agree with Mr. Priest, but I also agree with Mr.Hudlin, who said the comic industry is like the old south. There is no quick fix. Comic retailers are like the mafia, books are hot if they order them. If Marvel decides to give so,e sort of buy back, sale or incidentive program.

I'm not sure the focus on comic books, because the price point of books are high. Even at 2.99 with books slanting toward the four dollar range. You are going to be pressed to get a significant number of new readers.

Younger people will be more inclined to buy video games, shoes, apps etc then comics. If the comic industry didn't feel the need to protect vendors and retailers...digital could provide a format that removes all of that stuff at a cheaper price. But no, it's the same price.

I don't see the X-office changing anytime soon.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 04:13:56 pm
For the sake of circumventing the system and the fact that I am a practically a one man skeleton crew my comic will be available for 99 cents on the iPhone and the iPad!


That's one penny shy of one hundred... Three quarters, two dimes and four pennies... Nineteen nickels and... Oh heck you got it!


My video game will be in the 4.99 range since I'm doing all the main work on it myself!


I don't imagine distributing my own toys but costs have been cut tremendously by my Zbrushing them myself for 3D printing!


The digital world with Apple having hit the 50 billion download mark recently is open to everybody!


What hurts Marvel is that they have to follow their own pipeline because revamping it would cost millions perhaps!


Black Panther suffers because he got caught up in the midst of too many cancellations and not enough overall support... Not to mention the old south mentality!


If he can be salvaged off the Marvel pipeline in much the same way Hudlin worked the cartoon on the side he could have a chance to prove how great a character he can be... Disney the parent would have to yank him from the Fanbratti at large and do what they do best in spite of them!


But once that Flex Hectic Express Train runs through he might get run over by all that power unleashed with no restrictions! ;D


Soon T'challa will be "The Other Leading Brands Black Character" as I take pole position on all things black super heroes... (Insert diabolical laugh right about here with a repeating ambient echo...)


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 04:20:04 pm
That's smart Flex. Good Luck.

If Marvel was smart they would do something similar with their lesser known characters, would be to foward thinking and doesn't include greed.

Look at infinity comics--they chose Wolverine as the first comic. Smh.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 28, 2013, 05:24:35 pm
If marvel was smart they would have gotten a lot more out of the Storm/Black panther marriage. But because some close minded people couldn't handle it, The X=Writers chose to ignore it and never gave it respect or acknowledgement. Now they are trying to give us  this forced drama involving Storm. Logan and BP. Why would T'Challa care? The X-Men are banned from Wakanda and he would care even less about who Storm was with. But it just goes to show that certain writers are devoid of ideas and have to rely on Jerry Springer type isht to draw in  readers.

BTW, hello CBBs. I'm back on the regular.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 28, 2013, 05:47:28 pm
If marvel was smart they would have gotten a lot more out of the Storm/Black panther marriage. But because some close minded people couldn't handle it, The X=Writers chose to ignore it and never gave it respect or acknowledgement. Now they are trying to give us  this forced drama involving Storm. Logan and BP. Why would T'Challa care? The X-Men are banned from Wakanda and he would care even less about who Storm was with. But it just goes to show that certain writers are devoid of ideas and have to rely on Jerry Springer type isht to draw in  readers.

BTW, hello CBBs. I'm back on the regular.

So bearing all of the above in mind, why are there still some who wish to see T'Challa pining after Ororo like a love sick cuckolded chump?

Wecome back, Brotha With No Name.  8)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 28, 2013, 06:07:06 pm
The 3 issues of New Avengers I purchased last weekend...already looking shabby, dog-eared...fingerprints all over them. The cover is about to fall off issue #3. That's a sure sign that I've enjoyed the books and that if any of you should ever make my acquaintance, a warning that you should never under any circumstances, lend me one of your books to read  ;)

Reed and T'Challa were going to fire an Ultimate Nullifier through a Vibranium Barrel. How and when did Wakanda recover their Vibranium?

I have to say, I enjoy the writing and the characterizations of all the principals in the story...Namor included. Epting is a superior talent and you can tell the lovely Black Swan is his baby. He captures her essence completely. The expression - that little half-smile of amused sarcasm - on her face when she asks the Illuminati what help they could expect from a world eater was a keeper.

Once issue #5 has all but disintegrated in my hands, I'll be confident that I'm up to speed with the story.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 28, 2013, 09:26:27 pm
I'm sorry I don't consider consensual sex between to grown people "the gutter".

Even when it's (GASP) a woman? Because people really, REALLY have a problem with that here.

Even if it's a woman but I'll tell you I don't like how some of these fanboy writers use and exploit women's sexuality against them like they do Starfire and Huntress who are depicted as notches on someone's belt.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Princesa on May 28, 2013, 09:29:40 pm
To my ear anyway  the Storm/Logan relationship sounds like an open one. I could be wrong and I care less everyday.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 28, 2013, 10:47:09 pm
Who let Marvell in? ;D


Now I have to pay him if he sees me using his "TROLL ON" signature over here! 8)


Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 28, 2013, 11:14:42 pm
Now they are trying to give us  this forced drama involving Storm. Logan and BP. Why would T'Challa care? The X-Men are banned from Wakanda and he would care even less about who Storm was with.

I wouldn't go that far. We saw Storm having quite the petty moment when she saw T'Challa's potential wives lined up. While I thought the "anyone but him" thing was beyond stupid, I could see him wanting her to be happy, even if it isn't with him.

The weirdest thing about this Logan/Ororo bullsh*t is that people complained to high heaven how forced it was. sh*t, it doesn't get any more forced than this. And now the two of them are coming to Wakanda...why? To rub it in? Normally, I would say "Storm's too good for that kind of thing," but I don't see any evidence that she is. To lower Storm from the baddest bitch to a bust-it baby...geeeeez, it's still unbelievable. But I guess it's fine as long as she's not with a black man. :(
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 28, 2013, 11:24:55 pm
The 3 issues of New Avengers I purchased last weekend...already looking shabby, dog-eared...fingerprints all over them. The cover is about to fall off issue #3. That's a sure sign that I've enjoyed the books and that if any of you should ever make my acquaintance, a warning that you should never under any circumstances, lend me one of your books to read  ;)

Reed and T'Challa were going to fire an Ultimate Nullifier through a Vibranium Barrel. How and when did Wakanda recover their Vibranium?

I have to say, I enjoy the writing and the characterizations of all the principals in the story...Namor included. Epting is a superior talent and you can tell the lovely Black Swan is his baby. He captures her essence completely. The expression - that little half-smile of amused sarcasm - on her face when she asks the Illuminati what help they could expect from a world eater was a keeper.

Once issue #5 has all but disintegrated in my hands, I'll be confident that I'm up to speed with the story.

Hickman and Tom Brevoort essentially retconned Doomwar's removal of Vibranium out of existence. The only people who have Vibranium are Wakandans...not ever Tom, Dick and Harry. Which should have been the purpose for Maberry doing it in the first place.

For example. Bucky Cap had a Vibranium suit :o...That's T'challa sh*t. But he was rocking one the whole time. So basically only the processed Vibranium was made inert and the un-mined or raw Vibranium was not harmed. Wakanda is keeping it on the low.

So yeah, they still have it.  :)

#5 is good. 6 is out tommorow!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 29, 2013, 12:27:11 am
The 3 issues of New Avengers I purchased last weekend...already looking shabby, dog-eared...fingerprints all over them. The cover is about to fall off issue #3. That's a sure sign that I've enjoyed the books and that if any of you should ever make my acquaintance, a warning that you should never under any circumstances, lend me one of your books to read  ;)

Reed and T'Challa were going to fire an Ultimate Nullifier through a Vibranium Barrel. How and when did Wakanda recover their Vibranium?

I have to say, I enjoy the writing and the characterizations of all the principals in the story...Namor included. Epting is a superior talent and you can tell the lovely Black Swan is his baby. He captures her essence completely. The expression - that little half-smile of amused sarcasm - on her face when she asks the Illuminati what help they could expect from a world eater was a keeper.

Once issue #5 has all but disintegrated in my hands, I'll be confident that I'm up to speed with the story.

Hey brotha Sinjection1, I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying the New Avengers experience as evidenced in your eloquent post.

Unlike some, you're at least taking the time out to really absorb the writers story with an open mind irrespective of the writers race.

I'm also glad that you're enjoying the Black Swan experience as well.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Emperorjones on May 29, 2013, 01:53:45 am
Reggie how often do you holla at Priest?


[url]http://lamerciepark.com/comics/panther/[/url] ([url]http://lamerciepark.com/comics/panther/[/url])


I'll be your personal trainer for 3 free sessions if you get him to post in here!


That includes abs, stretching and cardio... ;D


Thanks for posting this. It's great to get Priest's insider perspective.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 29, 2013, 04:14:27 am
Hickman and Tom Brevoort essentially retconned Doomwar's removal of Vibranium out of existence. The only people who have Vibranium are Wakandans...not ever Tom, Dick and Harry. Which should have been the purpose for Maberry doing it in the first place.

For example. Bucky Cap had a Vibranium suit :o...That's T'challa sh*t. But he was rocking one the whole time. So basically only the processed Vibranium was made inert and the un-mined or raw Vibranium was not harmed. Wakanda is keeping it on the low.

So yeah, they still have it.  :)

#5 is good. 6 is out tommorow!

I saw the destruction of Wakanda's Vibranium as one more gut shot move against Wakanda and the Black Panther. The removal of that element of the mythos further diminished what made Wakanda significant and unique in the first place. I hope while Wakanda was recovering their Vibranium, they decided to eliminate the Savage Land's Vibranium as well. I'll have my #6 by the weekend. Looking forward to it.

Hey brotha Sinjection1, I'm glad to hear that you're enjoying the New Avengers experience as evidenced in your eloquent post.

Unlike some, you're at least taking the time out to really absorb the writers story with an open mind irrespective of the writers race.

I'm also glad that you're enjoying the Black Swan experience as well.


Whether or not their goal was accomplished, it seemed the Black Panther had always been intended to shine as a member of the Avengers. T'Challa's actual experience with the Illuminati should boost his cachet as a true power player. My best comicbook experience is when I was younger and racial/social issues weren't a consideration. This book allows me to revisit those days. With the Incursions seeming to be coming almost every other day, I still can't see how the Panther will have the time to entertain those two stupid, selfish mutants...but oh well. I couldn't be less interested in that hot mess.

The Black Swan is another matter entirely. She is very interesting. I would have thought her reaction to "the one" who captured her would be more hostile. But there she was, even after demonstrating considerable physical strength by cracking the cage wall, greeting T'Challa respectfully, speaking to him in a tone somewhat less guarded than her exchanges with Reed (granted, Reed is her "interrogator", but T'Challa is the reason why she is a captive in the first place), allowing T'Challa to walk behind her, to once again put his hands on her person while slipping the necklace around her neck. She could have made a fight of it but seemed not to like to. I hope they don't ruin the Black Swan as they have so many other female characters who have been derailed from this particular track of powerful elegance by having to resort to the slutty tricks.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 29, 2013, 05:41:25 am
Thanks for posting this. It's great to get Priest's insider perspective.

I was chatting with Reginald Hudlin last month and told him I’d only read, I believe, the first issue of his Black Panther. It wasn’t that I resented him in any way or that I was jealous or angry. Axel and Reggie did what needed to be done and did so brilliantly. I don’t go to comics shops and I’ve been way out of the loop about what’s been going on, but, from what I can tell, Panther has enjoyed several iterations beyond Hudlin's and has found more acceptance and popularity (if nit quite outright stardom) in the Marvel Universe than ever before. This is heartening, and I will take some credit, along with Stan and Don, for whatever part my creative contributions played.

Too bad it was all destroyed. No, wait...T'Challa's in some book with some plaything or something. Yeah, that totally tops being a king with an unconquered country and the hottest chick in the game wearing your chain.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 07:14:02 am
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character. T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 07:37:36 am
If marvel was smart they would have gotten a lot more out of the Storm/Black panther marriage. But because some close minded people couldn't handle it, The X=Writers chose to ignore it and never gave it respect or acknowledgement. Now they are trying to give us  this forced drama involving Storm. Logan and BP. Why would T'Challa care? The X-Men are banned from Wakanda and he would care even less about who Storm was with. But it just goes to show that certain writers are devoid of ideas and have to rely on Jerry Springer type isht to draw in  readers.

BTW, hello CBBs. I'm back on the regular.

So bearing all of the above in mind, why are there still some who wish to see T'Challa pining after Ororo like a love sick cuckolded chump?

Wecome back, Brotha With No Name.  8)

If the marriage was handled properly on the X-side, there could be a case made for them to be together. The potential and possibilities of this union would be tremendous. But again, certain writers can't look beyond creating soap opera isht to draw interest. With Storm and T'Challa married,  they could have made Genosha a city state for mutants and humans to work  together. That would have created the Schism between Storm and Scott who only wanted a place solely for mutants. This would have been the Storm vs Scott moment that we should have had.

But since that would have had Unfans pissing in their pants, the X-writers chose to ignore the marriage and then subsequently try to milk it because they had no other place for Storm. Scott, Alex, Logan, Teen Jean, Emma, Psylocke and Kitty have the prime roles. So now they have Storm playing a role on  the Young and t he Restless. The Unfans are quite happy with that.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 07:56:27 am

I saw the destruction of Wakanda's Vibranium as one more gut shot move against Wakanda and the Black Panther. The removal of that element of the mythos further diminished what made Wakanda significant and unique in the first place. I hope while Wakanda was recovering their Vibranium, they decided to eliminate the Savage Land's Vibranium as well. I'll have my #6 by the weekend. Looking forward to it.

Agreed it was that. Maberry jump off the deep end, trying to make it more impactful but in the process it only hurt Wakanda and Black Panther. We didn't get to see them in any meaningful action outside of Doomwar anti-climatic apex and ending.

What's interesting is that Hickman's F4 actually used the inert Vibranium in its major story arc. So Liss and Hickman ( and Brevoort) have basically wrote that aspect off, Hickman has Wakanda buying up all the US dept and the top space program in the MU.

Look for that aspect to pop back up. Street Panther is dying at the hands of him.

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 29, 2013, 08:05:00 am
With Storm and T'Challa married,  they could have made Genosha a city state for mutants and humans to work  together. That would have created the Schism between Storm and Scott who only wanted a place solely for mutants. This would have been the Storm vs Scott moment that we should have had.

This is exactly what I thought should have happened to begin with. At the beginning of Worlds Apart, that's pretty much what Scott told Storm - that she couldn't be an X-Man *and* a queen. I totally agreed. When Storm chose to marry, that should've been the end of all things X, because her top priority at that point should have been the people of Wakanda. As one of the richest people in the world (by marriage), Wakanda could have easily been a mutant haven.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 29, 2013, 10:29:04 am
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character.

Sadly, Storm isn't even the "hottest chick" in the seX-Men. Ororo, the one-time front runner of comic book female characters, has been misused, her image abused...simply ridden too hard by bad writers and her current fuzzy "jockey" isn't doing anything to improve her situation. Meanwhile, coming up hard and fast around the turn is the sensational Black Swan.
Unless Marvel tries to turn her into some swooning sexpot overnight, Yabbat Ummon Tarru could set a new standard for the truly powerful, regal female character that Ororo was prevented from fully attaining.


Quote
T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.

You bet he would.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 29, 2013, 10:45:03 am
What's funny Seven is that now that T'challa is not being ignored outside of his world he is getting TROLLED by the X-house!


This truly is a double edged sword!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 10:55:30 am
Flex you are right. But he has been trolled regardless. Age of X and X-men:Forever styled trolling were worst because they trolled the Marvel. In one Married Storm is screwing Namor and T'challa doesn't exist :o and the latter Storm's "best" writer emasculated T'challa, had Storm sh*t in him, killed him got with Killmonger and took over Wakanda.

But in the end, that crap will not outstrip quality writing.

NA #6 was great...this book in on another level and Hickman's Panther is awesome and stays front and center!
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 10:59:28 am
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character.

Sadly, Storm isn't even the "hottest chick" in the seX-Men. Ororo, the one-time front runner of comic book female characters, has been misused, her image abused...simply ridden too hard by bad writers and her current fuzzy "jockey" isn't doing anything to improve her situation. Meanwhile, coming up hard and fast around the turn is the sensational Black Swan.
Unless Marvel tries to turn her into some swooning sexpot overnight, Yabbat Ummon Tarru could set a new standard for the truly powerful, regal female character that Ororo was prevented from fully attaining.


Quote
T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.

You bet he would.

Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 29, 2013, 11:32:16 am
You know what Seven...


I'm happy for you and all that is happening to Black Panther even if I disagree with a few things Hickman is doing!


Now I want an AGREED 1,000,000% right here right now in this here forum! ;D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 12:58:48 pm
You know what Seven...


I'm happy for you and all that is happening to Black Panther even if I disagree with a few things Hickman is doing!


Now I want an AGREED 1,000,000% right here right now in this here forum! ;D

Troll on Flex, Troll on.
I worked out a deal with my reps. You're free to "Troll On" in the HEF  thread.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: FLEX HECTIC on May 29, 2013, 01:01:36 pm
Thanks Marvell


Your licensing and merchandise department is so A-list right now!


Uhm Seven... Where is my AGREED 1,000,000%? ;D
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 01:09:11 pm
Thanks Marvell


Your licensing and merchandise department is so A-list right now!


Uhm Seven... Where is my AGREED 1,000,000%? ;D
1 million % Flex. Lmao.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 01:10:27 pm
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character.

Sadly, Storm isn't even the "hottest chick" in the seX-Men. Ororo, the one-time front runner of comic book female characters, has been misused, her image abused...simply ridden too hard by bad writers and her current fuzzy "jockey" isn't doing anything to improve her situation. Meanwhile, coming up hard and fast around the turn is the sensational Black Swan.
Unless Marvel tries to turn her into some swooning sexpot overnight, Yabbat Ummon Tarru could set a new standard for the truly powerful, regal female character that Ororo was prevented from fully attaining.


Quote
T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.

You bet he would.

Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.

Dude, the Unfans were just happy for the haircut. They have her in about 4 different tite and she's yet to do anything memorable other than wonder why she's no longer a queen. She should be doing so much more.

The funny thing is  that the Unfans think that we're hating on her when in truth we want better for her than being the next in line for Logan to dump. Read, Uncanny Avengers and see what Havok is doing. His profile is steadily rising. This is what Storm should be doing.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 01:12:42 pm
With Storm and T'Challa married,  they could have made Genosha a city state for mutants and humans to work  together. That would have created the Schism between Storm and Scott who only wanted a place solely for mutants. This would have been the Storm vs Scott moment that we should have had.

This is exactly what I thought should have happened to begin with. At the beginning of Worlds Apart, that's pretty much what Scott told Storm - that she couldn't be an X-Man *and* a queen. I totally agreed. When Storm chose to marry, that should've been the end of all things X, because her top priority at that point should have been the people of Wakanda. As one of the richest people in the world (by marriage), Wakanda could have easily been a mutant haven.

That would have been the perfect premise to launch Uncanny Avengers. They could have even kept the same line up but with Storm as leader while T'Challa was in NA.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 01:31:30 pm
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character.

Sadly, Storm isn't even the "hottest chick" in the seX-Men. Ororo, the one-time front runner of comic book female characters, has been misused, her image abused...simply ridden too hard by bad writers and her current fuzzy "jockey" isn't doing anything to improve her situation. Meanwhile, coming up hard and fast around the turn is the sensational Black Swan.
Unless Marvel tries to turn her into some swooning sexpot overnight, Yabbat Ummon Tarru could set a new standard for the truly powerful, regal female character that Ororo was prevented from fully attaining.


Quote
T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.



You bet he would.

Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.

Dude, the Unfans were just happy for the haircut. They have her in about 4 different tite and she's yet to do anything memorable other than wonder why she's no longer a queen. She should be doing so much more.

The funny thing is  that the Unfans think that we're hating on her when in truth we want better for her than being the next in line for Logan to dump. Read, Uncanny Avengers and see what Havok is doing. His profile is steadily rising. This is what Storm should be doing.

Exactly. I'm just keeping it 100. Yes, she single ...but way to cheapen her. The most memorable thing she has done is screw Logan and get a freak hair cut and a job with no desk. These same idiots bash Hudlin and Panther...But Storm is not shown as important to him in his titles. Why is he having Elektra  guess staring in one of his books and Kitty stealing the most important moment?

Havok is doing his thing. Storm gets second or even third fiddle and Copiel for four issues and that's it. It's a joke, but sometimes you need to learn the hard way.

I remember telling some of them on comicvine what was going to happened, and now all I do is laugh at them.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 01:50:30 pm
Storm isn't the hottest chick in the game, Marvel treats her like a C-list character.

Sadly, Storm isn't even the "hottest chick" in the seX-Men. Ororo, the one-time front runner of comic book female characters, has been misused, her image abused...simply ridden too hard by bad writers and her current fuzzy "jockey" isn't doing anything to improve her situation. Meanwhile, coming up hard and fast around the turn is the sensational Black Swan.
Unless Marvel tries to turn her into some swooning sexpot overnight, Yabbat Ummon Tarru could set a new standard for the truly powerful, regal female character that Ororo was prevented from fully attaining.


Quote
T'challa is still a King. He's King of Kings of Wakanda and the lead of the most important book at Marvel.

I'm sure Priest would be shocked that Marvel is putting him in a position that actually allows Panther to shape the universe. As he was use to T'challa do major things, only to be flat out ignored outside of his title.



You bet he would.

Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.

Dude, the Unfans were just happy for the haircut. They have her in about 4 different tite and she's yet to do anything memorable other than wonder why she's no longer a queen. She should be doing so much more.

The funny thing is  that the Unfans think that we're hating on her when in truth we want better for her than being the next in line for Logan to dump. Read, Uncanny Avengers and see what Havok is doing. His profile is steadily rising. This is what Storm should be doing.

Exactly. I'm just keeping it 100. Yes, she single ...but way to cheapen her. The most memorable thing she has done is screw Logan and get a freak hair cut and a job with no desk. These same idiots bash Hudlin and Panther...But Storm is not shown as important to him in his titles. Why is he having Elektra  guess staring in one of his books and Kitty stealing the most important moment?

Havok is doing his thing. Storm gets second or even third fiddle and Copiel for four issues and that's it. It's a joke, but sometimes you need to learn the hard way.

I remember telling some of them on comicvine what was going to happened, and now all I do is laugh at them.

I was going back and forth with one dude about how other mutants have stepped up and been given key roles. Scott, Logan, Kitty and Alex are the voice of mutants now. He said that Alex isn't a voice for mutants because he denounced them. I told dude that he's speaking for mutants because he's leading one of the most important and premier teams in Marvel. There are mutants on Uncanny Avengers and none of them disagreed with what he said or called him on it. He's become a leader and a prominent figure.

I ask, where was Storm and what is her take on what Alex said? That's right she's busy fighting Bishop and complaining to Psylocke about her lack of a life. Again, they confuse bashing Storm with constructive criticism. Storm getting a haircut is great character move? Somebody's got some pretty low standards then.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 29, 2013, 02:18:05 pm
Storm getting a haircut is great character move? Somebody's got some pretty low standards then.

Can I take this time to point out how much I hate that haircut? It would take a POUND of hairspray to keep it up like that. In real life, it would fall to the side - a look that would be much more modern and with the times than that tired ass 80s look.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 29, 2013, 02:32:59 pm
Epicness and much winning.

(http://i40.tinypic.com/11kilix.jpg)

Lettin' them thangs swang. :smh:

(http://i40.tinypic.com/35b8t8j.jpg)

Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 02:33:24 pm
Storm getting a haircut is great character move? Somebody's got some pretty low standards then.

Can I take this time to point out how much I hate that haircut? It would take a POUND of hairspray to keep it up like that. In real life, it would fall to the side - a look that would be much more modern and with the times than that tired ass 80s look.

That was her "freedom" cut.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 29, 2013, 02:38:09 pm
Storm getting a haircut is great character move? Somebody's got some pretty low standards then.

Can I take this time to point out how much I hate that haircut? It would take a POUND of hairspray to keep it up like that. In real life, it would fall to the side - a look that would be much more modern and with the times than that tired ass 80s look.

That was her "freedom" cut.

Or liberation boufont.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 29, 2013, 03:00:55 pm
Spoilers for New Avengers #7:







I tolld you she wasn't trustworthy.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Salustrade on May 29, 2013, 03:11:49 pm
Spoilers for New Avengers #7:







I tolld you she wasn't trustworthy.


Did anyone say she was?

(http://i42.tinypic.com/282o7n.jpg)

^^^^She's very loyal.....

As long as you're a mutant.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 03:26:14 pm
Spoilers for New Avengers #7:







I tolld you she wasn't trustworthy.

You mean issue #6? And I don't anyone said she was...there are a few ways that could go.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 03:32:04 pm
Spoilers for New Avengers #7:







I tolld you she wasn't trustworthy.

Isn't that why T'Challa had her placed in a cage and then put a bomb around her neck? No one trusts her but they sure are going to use any information that she can provide.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 29, 2013, 03:56:19 pm
Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.

If Storm's being Queen of one of the world's most powerful nations and destined to become the most important mutant in the world couldn't wake up the Storm fans, they must be comatose. You're a stronger man than I am, Seven. I'm so angry at what they've done to Ororo that I will not patronize any Marvel product featuring an X-Men story.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: sinjection1 on May 29, 2013, 04:04:50 pm
Spoilers for New Avengers #7:








I tolld you she wasn't trustworthy.

Kip...you ain't spoiled a daggone thang. I was expecting something lip-smackin' juicy, not you telling us what we already knew  ;)
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Seven on May 29, 2013, 04:32:08 pm
Storm can be turned around. But first her fans need to wake up. I don't trust the X-office. I read today's X-men. It's good, but Storm? Lol, I'm just speechless where she is going. She is stuck and a pretty rigid character.

I hope Panther never becomes that way. 10,000 years of Panthers will make that extra hard.

If Storm's being Queen of one of the world's most powerful nations and destined to become the most important mutant in the world couldn't wake up the Storm fans, they must be comatose. You're a stronger man than I am, Seven. I'm so angry at what they've done to Ororo that I will not patronize any Marvel product featuring an X-Men story.

I "Bryne stole" the book. I don't buy X-titles. Either I get a free digital code from friends who don't like digital format or I will take a look at the shop. Rogue, Psylocke and Jubliue had bigger roles. Smh.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Shade on May 29, 2013, 04:34:50 pm
BP was the man in the latest NA issue! On another note so storm is so far wallpaper even in her fan's great hope Wood's book?
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 29, 2013, 04:45:51 pm
That was her "freedom" cut.

Storm's been sporting that cut since my mother was a virgin.
Title: Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
Post by: marvell2100 on May 29, 2013, 05:23:15 pm
That was her "freedom" cut.

Storm's been sporting that cut since my mother was a virgin.