Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Panther Politics => Topic started by: Moose100 on January 05, 2007, 06:32:05 pm

Title: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Moose100 on January 05, 2007, 06:32:05 pm
This is a great site for black comics readers to discuss things they cannot discuss on other websites in general; kudos to Hudlin and his staff for this site!!!

Im new to this world of internet comic boards posting but decided to take the plunge when I read some racially charged commentary(not racist) on comicboards.com towards Hudlin's run on BP.  I never intended to go in and comment on race but the things I saw tipped my hand to say something. I was hearing stuff like.."he's too perfect", "hes too arrogant" "he talks down to everybody"... and so on. It just made me groan.

Heres the links to the white hot debate:

http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?trd=061216185607
http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?trd=061219012133
http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?trd=061220115715
http://www.comicboards.com/blackpanther/view.php?trd=061222012913

This was a large brouhaha that lasted about a week and a half. You be the judge.

Anyhow I have some questions for the sake of discussion:

1.) Why do you think that the characterization of blacks in a strong light is hard to accept by some whites?  You would think writing a black character as being an authentic black person being a real superhero and not just a sidekick or fodder for rescue/assistance would be more authentic across the board.

2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being to controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.

3.)  I think the persons that are offended somehow by Hudlin's writng of this character as an "authentic african/african-american" takes non-blacks/those offended out of there comfort zones as the character and the book itself was written comfortably in terms of not offending these people.

I think that the things I find in Hudlins run as an African-American are refereshing because to me it comments in comics fashion on the things I and possibly other african-americans think about and experience on a daily basis. I feel like Im"at home" when I read this book.

BTW Im also new to the BP mythology in general and I have Hudlin to thank for my interest in this character.

What are your thoughts??
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 05, 2007, 07:05:46 pm
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: supreme illuminati on January 05, 2007, 07:31:43 pm
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

On the issue of comic board combat,Jenn---aka the Mistress of Mayhem--is one of our most illustrious and knowledgeable.We have a veritable battalion here which includes--but is not limited to-- Yaw (the Lethal Logician),bluezulu (Chaka Zulu in Cerulean),Rutog (Oracle of All Things Ororo,Seer of the Storm),Mastermynd (the Mangler of Mental Midgets),sinjection (TheSable Skinned Slayer) and semi-retired OGs like Sam Wilson (Smoove Smack a Sukka Sam).I abstain from board-to-board battles...I don't care enough about the opinions of those "others" to bother.I DO enjoy debates of a civil and intelligent nature,but I tend to not employ the rock em sock em roughouse methodology of Jenn,and up-and-comers like kitamu Re (Krakka Killa) and Toya the Terrible,She Who Invented the Fiendish Philosophy of Brutalizing Brats by way of "Torture With Facts".

There are several other keyboard killahs all up in here,but I don't have time to single them out for their outstanding contributions...and they are more qualified to help you than I.Glad to see you dawg...keep it comin and stay with us.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 05, 2007, 08:33:01 pm
As one of the few white people here (I'm assuming, but let me know if I am wrong) I can try to give me thoughts on your questions.  These might not necessarily be my views but instead how I think the majority of white readers might feel.  I'm just back from happy hour so bare with me if I ramble or if I'm not as clear as I should be.


1.) Why do you think that the characterization of blacks in a strong light is hard to accept by some whites?  You would think writing a black character as being an authentic black person being a real superhero and not just a sidekick or fodder for rescue/assistance would be more authentic across the board.


I'm not sure this is always the case.  Characters like Steel seem to have a strong following despite being back (again, I might be wrong, please let me know if I am).  Most have seemed to have enjoyed his part in 52 and race has not been a part of it.  I think what some white people might have a problem with is not the fact that a black character is strong, but that it might be presented in a way such as having a black character best a white character for the express purpose of showing that they are equal/superior.  Of course the bad guys come in all colors and shapes (damn, those skrulls) but sometimes (and again, I am not saying this about Reggies book) it seems like comic fans get beaten over the head that the black character beat the white character rather than the good guy beat the bad guy.  Of course race is always an issue but having a white character being racist or at the very least openly ignorant seems to be overused, when saying "see, they underestimate him but he is a strong black man/woman!"



2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being to controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.


While not a creator of a black character, I'll give it a short answer.  I think all people have some trouble writing a character that is different from what they know.  I often cringe at TV shows featuring a jewish family.  It is easy to tell which shows have jewish creators and which do not.  Some writers (in tv, comics, and books) can write characters from different backgrounds and some can't.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Gavri_El on January 05, 2007, 08:50:57 pm
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

......That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

Don't hold back sister!  ;D ;D  Stronger than a triple expresso, but completely on point. 



Note to self.....  Don't ever piss off Jenn!  :)  Whew.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Daoud on January 06, 2007, 03:17:21 am
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

Exactly!  Jenn, your analysis is always a pleasure to read but this post was particularly incisive.

Many of the people who criticize Reg's BP over continuity remind me of those white people who insist the American Civil War was fought over states rights and the slavery thing was just incidental.  Just replace states rights with 'continuity' and slavery with 'a powerful black character'.  I find the respect T'challa presently recieves more inportant than minor continuity gaffes.

Though Reg, if you're reading this, watch you continuity. ;)

Excelsior!
Daoud
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 06, 2007, 05:57:39 am
All Hail Queen Jenn!!
For she speaketh the truth and the truth will set u all free.

*looks at Supreme*
Thanks bruh. I got a nickname. Finally.  I knew if i put in some work, you all would luv me... "you luv me, u really luv me."

Mastermynd (the Mangler of Mental Midgets)

(ps: there isn't an E in Mastrmynd)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on other message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 06, 2007, 07:04:42 am
This is a great site for black comics readers to discuss things they cannot discuss on other websites in general; kudos to Hudlin and his staff for this site!!!
Welcome aboard.  Glad you like it.  Tell your friends.  ;)

1.) Why do you think that the characterization of blacks in a strong light is hard to accept by some whites?  You would think writing a black character as being an authentic black person being a real superhero and not just a sidekick or fodder for rescue/assistance would be more authentic across the board.
First off, I agree with Jenn except I'll go one further.  Beyond their level of comfort, I think that works like BP challenge some people's fundamental assumptions whether they're aware of them or not.  Some of them are able to adjust their world view, most get angry and irrational.  I remember the same kinds of criticism being leveled at Reggie when Boomerang came out.  Some critics charged that its black business world was unrealistic, a racist fantasy, without once questioning whether their reactions simply reflected their own ignorance.  I guess they had never heard of Fashion Fair cosmetics.  The most radical stance of all is not portraying white people as evil, it's simply ignoring them altogether. 

2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being too controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.
Well, to extend that line of reasoning to its logical extreme, nobody could really write any character different from him or herself authentically.  Is writing a character of a different race fundamentally different than writing a character of say, a different gender?  So, I'm going to say that it is a matter of being talented enough -- imaginative, empathetic, and honest enough -- to do it well.   Those guys writing The Wire seem to be able to handle it, for instance.  Not saying it's easy...

By the way, I claim there is no such thing as too controversial for discussion.  It's having the discipline to do it respectfully that makes it work.  Thanks for asking thought provoking questions.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 06, 2007, 07:15:46 am
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

I agree and want to add that its not just whites.  There are plenty other non-whites who fall into that line of thinking, especially good ol knee-grows who want to fit in and avoid race topics.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: bluezulu on January 06, 2007, 07:19:22 am
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.
------------------------
Wow I believe you are my long lost twin sister seperated at birth that I never knew about. I would like to add something to this thread but jenn said everything I would have said, exactly like I would have said it but better. lol. :D
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on other message boards for even doing s
Post by: bluezulu on January 06, 2007, 07:27:37 am
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

I agree and want to add that its not just whites.  There are plenty other non-whites who fall into that line of thinking, especially good ol knee-grows who want to fit in and avoid race topics.
--------------------
And you know I hate giving the haters on other board extra shine. Hey shine that is exactly the case of the poster effect who is proud to say he is black but goes all out to bash reg's panther run despite never reading it. He even goes so far to have it in his sig line that the black panther is the worse book and needs to be cancelled. Now come on just because your black does not mean you have to like this book, but come on having working black talent at the big two can't be nothing but positive as long as the writers intent is to show us in a positive light, and who can say reg, has not done that. So if you are black and go out your way to hate on this and other black work...what does that say about you?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 08:26:24 am
Quote
2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being to controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.

With me it's always more about the quality of work rather than the ethnicity of the writer.  If a writer is talented and sincere in his depiction of a character then there's no problem at all.   For instance, I was amazed with Bendis's depiction of Cage in the New Avengers.  I don't think I'd want anybody else writing Cage but Bendis.  He displays every facet of Cage's character perfectly, being blackman is a major part of who Cage is, but he brings out the unwavering sense of justice and willingness to take stand against almost anything to do the right thing.  Anyway, I'll shut up, lol.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on other message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 06, 2007, 08:33:30 am
--------------------
And you know I hate giving the haters on other board extra shine. Hey shine that is exactly the case of the poster effect who is proud to say he is black but goes all out to bash reg's panther run despite never reading it. He even goes so far to have it in his sig line that the black panther is the worse book and needs to be cancelled. Now come on just because your black does not mean you have to like this book, but come on having working black talent at the big two can't be nothing but positive as long as the writers intent is to show us in a positive light, and who can say reg, has not done that. So if you are black and go out your way to hate on this and other black work...what does that say about you?

LOL, when I typed that I thought of mentioning his name but decided against it.  But let's be clear here, being black and not supporting Hudlin's work doesn't speak any less of you.  I clearly understand being a PRiest fan and feeling that Hudlin has somehow negated or in someway belittled your favorite artist's work.  I can also understand simply not liking his style of writing.  I've said it before that I don't like Priest's style very much.  But as you stated, its the extent to which the poster Effect goes to as well as other things he says.  Plenty of Black posters on BP message board don't really  care for Hudlin's work but at the same time do not go to extraordinary lengths to degrade the book or the author.  Effect makes it known all the time that he is Black and that he hates the book and thinks Hudlin should be fired but admits to not knowing JACK about BP history.

WHAT PART OF THE GAME IS THIS???

Like you said, you have to question that sort of behavior.  It reminds me of the time-honored house negro mentality.  I mean damn if you don't read a book, know nothing about its history and dislike the author's writing style, WHY CONTINUE JOINING IN DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT?  If I'm not mistaken he even said he wasn't a big Storm fan so even that avenue is closed.  There is no reason for him to even think about that book yet he makes his opinion known about how terrible it is in every post.  sadly this is the type of behavior despite race that is evident amongst so many BP haters.  Everytime I mention this, detractors will say I'm using the "strawmen" argument. 

"SHEEEEEEEIIITTTT!"  (c) Clay Davis

I can make a list of BP haters who have admitted to not faithfully reading every issue but continue to post negative thoughts on the book.  The sad part is that many of them post on multiple posts across various boards.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 06, 2007, 08:43:28 am
Quote
2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being to controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.

With me it's always more about the quality of work rather than the ethnicity of the writer.  If a writer is talented and sincere in his depiction of a character then there's no problem at all.   For instance, I was amazed with Bendis's depiction of Cage in the New Avengers.  I don't think I'd want anybody else writing Cage but Bendis.  He displays every facet of Cage's character perfectly, being blackman is a major part of who Cage is, but he brings out the unwavering sense of justice and willingness to take stand against almost anything to do the right thing.  Anyway, I'll shut up, lol.

I agree, Bendis wrote the first depiction that I liked.  Even Priest's Cage was shallow to me.  Reggie's brief depiction seemed to stem from Bendis so I liked that as well.  However I disagree that I only want Bendis writing him.  I liked Reggie's version alot and think the vernacular flowed a little more naturally.  Sometimes Cage's vernacular under Bendis feels a little forced and inauthentic.  Also Bendis married Cage to a white woman  >:(.  While I liked the evolution of their relationship (because Bendis is a good writer) I still have my qualms about it.  For one, I would like to see more Black intraracial marriages.  Also Cage being presented as a man who possesses a strong sense of Black community awareness as well as a strong Black identity, seems to fall short when looking at his wife.  I mean it is not as if it doesn't happen in reality (yes I know it does) but that sort of thing always seems to be an oxymoron (in reality).  Sistas can't get no love? I would have been all over Monica Rambeau or Misty Knight.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: stanleyballard on January 06, 2007, 08:53:35 am
Agree with the earlier comment that some people have an issue with BP being royalty and being a gentleman....they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."  Somehow that hypothetical synopsis was acceptable if he became abusive and disrespected women; It's sad and pathetic that anyone would think that is the only way to make BP interesting or acceptable to them.

@ Yaw...agree 100%!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 09:13:58 am
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 09:38:45 am
Quote
I agree, Bendis wrote the first depiction that I liked.  Even Priest's Cage was shallow to me.  Reggie's brief depiction seemed to stem from Bendis so I liked that as well.  However I disagree that I only want Bendis writing him. I liked Reggie's version alot and think the vernacular flowed a little more naturally.  Sometimes Cage's vernacular under Bendis feels a little forced and inauthentic.

I agree, when he was beating up Purple Man the venacular didn't flow like it when he was in the Panther, I heard his voice from Hudlin alot more than from Bendis when regularly speaking.  But in the Collective arc when he was talking to the media and when he stood up to registration he was straight dope.  I didn't altogether exclude anybody else from writing him, but Bendis definitely set the standard.

 
Quote
Also Bendis married Cage to a white woman  .  While I liked the evolution of their relationship (because Bendis is a good writer) I still have my qualms about it.  For one, I would like to see more Black intraracial marriages.  Also Cage being presented as a man who possesses a strong sense of Black community awareness as well as a strong Black identity, seems to fall short when looking at his wife.  I mean it is not as if it doesn't happen in reality (yes I know it does) but that sort of thing always seems to be an oxymoron (in reality).  Sistas can't get no love? I would have been all over Monica Rambeau or Misty Knight.

Lol, far be it for me what another man wants to share his bed and life with.  Cage found a woman he loved, had a child with her and did the right thing and married her.   He's not afraid of what people would think about his relationship, he knew what he wanted and went after it, and he's not ashamed at all.  IMO that speaks of his strong black identity as much as anything else.  He's in own man, he has no problem with Misty of Monica, it just wasn't in the cards for him.  He aint no coon.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 09:59:58 am
Cage found a woman he loved, had a child with her and did the right thing and married her.   He's not afraid of what people would think about his relationship, he knew what he wanted and went after it, and he's not ashamed at all.  IMO that speaks of his strong black identity as much as anything else.  He's in own man, he has no problem with Misty of Monica, it just wasn't in the cards for him.  He aint no coon.

Eh, I think that's bunk. I have no problem with IR relationships, but something about Cage's doesn't ring true. It's like they intentionally paired Mr. Too-Black-Too-Strong with a white woman (after having an OOW child from a loveless union, of course!) as some sort of bizarre joke. I like Cage and I like Jessica, but together they make little sense and have no chemistry whatsoever.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 06, 2007, 10:03:21 am
But remember, before Cage got together with Jessica, he was pretty much in limbo.  His relationship paved the way for New Avengers, Daredevil, and the Pulse.  He he wasn't paired with Jessica, theres a good chance he wouldn;t be paired with anyone because he wouldn;t be showing up anywhere,
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 10:19:09 am
Cage found a woman he loved, had a child with her and did the right thing and married her.   He's not afraid of what people would think about his relationship, he knew what he wanted and went after it, and he's not ashamed at all.  IMO that speaks of his strong black identity as much as anything else.  He's in own man, he has no problem with Misty of Monica, it just wasn't in the cards for him.  He aint no coon.

Eh, I think that's bunk. I have no problem with IR relationships, but something about Cage's doesn't ring true. It's like they intentionally paired Mr. Too-Black-Too-Strong with a white woman (after having an OOW child from a loveless union, of course!) as some sort of bizarre joke. I like Cage and I like Jessica, but together they make little sense and have no chemistry whatsoever.

Well I'm sure haven't read as much as you so I can't say much.  But from what little I read from the Pulse and the new Avengers even I don't see much of a problem with their relationship,  it's nowhere near BP/Storm dynamic.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 06, 2007, 10:23:51 am
But remember, before Cage got together with Jessica, he was pretty much in limbo.  His relationship paved the way for New Avengers, Daredevil, and the Pulse.  He he wasn't paired with Jessica, theres a good chance he wouldn;t be paired with anyone because he wouldn;t be showing up anywhere,

No I agree with this 100%.  It's sad to me in a way but yes I think his relationship with Jessica has made him more palatable to mainstream tastes.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 10:31:34 am
I think his relationship with Jessica has made him more palatable to mainstream tastes.

THAT'S it. I knew I was explaining myself poorly. It's almost like "Look! Here's a kinder, friendly, less 'racist' Luke Cage! He loves white people now! He even married one!" *gags* And the way they went about it? Pathetic.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: stanleyballard on January 06, 2007, 11:03:52 am
Cage could have been more interesting with a Black woman...and it would have been in continuity of his characterization.   ;)

Question: If Black people don't tell Black history then who will ...White people?  If Blacks don't support Black owned businesses then we will continue to see a decline in our overall employment and ability to effect global economies (read: Africa...a resource rich continent). If Blacks don't love ourselves and marry successfully amongst ourselves then what happends to our culture, language, identity...it becomes HIS-story and everything is westernized and white washed.  That's real.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Marvelous on January 06, 2007, 11:12:43 am
Cage could have been more interesting with a Black woman...and it would have been in continuity of his characterization.   ;)

How would Cage be seen if he didn't stay with her after her pregnancy.  Would that've been in characterization to him or black people?  ???
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 11:48:09 am
Marrying someone just because they're pregnant is as old a time - and just as stupid. It's an ancient idea rooted in sexism ("OH NOEZ!!11 SHE'S RUINED!"), and it rarely goes well, even after all this time. Cage could've been portrayed as being a good and responsible father to his daughter without marrying some drunk broad that he got pregnant. That's way too "noble Negro" for me. And heaven knows him having a girlfriend AND a babymama would've made him a lot more interesting than he is now.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 12:00:13 pm
Quote
Marrying someone just because they're pregnant is as old a time - and just as stupid. It's an ancient idea rooted in sexism ("OH NOEZ!!11 SHE'S RUINED!"), and it rarely goes well, even after all this time. Cage could've been portrayed as being a good and responsible father to his daughter without marrying some drunk broad that he got pregnant. That's way too "noble Negro" for me. And heaven knows him having a girlfriend AND a babymama would've made him a lot more interesting than he is now.

I dunno, to me, Jessica Jones and the unnamed child are side effects to me as far as Cage, they don't make him anymore or less interesting or authentic.  He's a kickass character and this thing with Jessica helped him get some spotlight, no harm no foul?  <ducks>
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 12:12:33 pm
No harm, no foul...no point I dunno; I guess after reading a pair as passionate and loving as BP and Storm, Luke and Jessica come up way short. They're buddies. A team. But a husband and wife? Nah.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Marvelous on January 06, 2007, 01:02:13 pm
I might be mistaken but Cage and Jes' relationship did grow, it wasn't just out of the blue with the nuptials.  It's not about him doing the right thing.  I really think he fell for her in the end.  Jes' was the one that was hesitant, and sorry for getting off topic.   ;)

Alias was one of the best reads this century so far, imho.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Moose100 on January 06, 2007, 01:20:37 pm
Quote
2.) Speaking of authenticity; and I say this with the utmost respect to the creator of these black charactors as they are truly legends..but do you think that whites writing a black character is equal to "comics blackface". ( Hopefully im not being to controversial!! lol) Or is it a matter of a writer being good enough and talented enough to write these black characters authentically.

With me it's always more about the quality of work rather than the ethnicity of the writer.  If a writer is talented and sincere in his depiction of a character then there's no problem at all.   For instance, I was amazed with Bendis's depiction of Cage in the New Avengers.  I don't think I'd want anybody else writing Cage but Bendis.  He displays every facet of Cage's character perfectly, being blackman is a major part of who Cage is, but he brings out the unwavering sense of justice and willingness to take stand against almost anything to do the right thing.  Anyway, I'll shut up, lol.

Hey I feel you there..I loved Bendis' depiction of Cage.  Hopefully the rumors are tryue that hes actually going to pen a solo series sometime in the future!!!!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 06, 2007, 01:23:03 pm
No harm, no foul...no point I dunno; I guess after reading a pair as passionate and loving as BP and Storm, Luke and Jessica come up way short. They're buddies. A team. But a husband and wife? Nah.

naw i think they are a loving couple.  From Alias to Pulse to Daredevil to New Avengers, the relationship does grow and blossom.  Bendis did a good job of showing this and Cage's speech in Pulse about why they should get married makes it feel authentic.  In fact I like his speech moreso because it didn't deal the the false illusion of "romantic love" common  in Western society that usually ends in divorce.  That is not why he said they should get married.  It was more practical but still heartfelt.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 06, 2007, 01:28:04 pm
I think his relationship with Jessica has made him more palatable to mainstream tastes.

THAT'S it. I knew I was explaining myself poorly. It's almost like "Look! Here's a kinder, friendly, less 'racist' Luke Cage! He loves white people now! He even married one!" *gags* And the way they went about it? Pathetic.

Jenn I totally feel you and this Cage/Jones thing is another dynamic that I shouldve seen but it makes sense.  While Bendis is making a strong point of demonstrating strong interacacial relationships it also seems to take the "edge" off of his blackness maybe.

Or you can look at it as a previous poster said as Cage being comfortable in his blackness and individuality to actually do so.  Though a bizarre thing to do for Power Man this perspective makes sense to me as well.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 01:39:53 pm
No harm, no foul...no point I dunno; I guess after reading a pair as passionate and loving as BP and Storm, Luke and Jessica come up way short. They're buddies. A team. But a husband and wife? Nah.

I agree, they're nowhere near BP/Storm, but come on, who is?  At least they're not Reed and Sue
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: D- Ruck on January 06, 2007, 01:42:07 pm
I think his relationship with Jessica has made him more palatable to mainstream tastes.

THAT'S it. I knew I was explaining myself poorly. It's almost like "Look! Here's a kinder, friendly, less 'racist' Luke Cage! He loves white people now! He even married one!" *gags* And the way they went about it? Pathetic.

Jenn I totally feel you and this Cage/Jones thing is another dynamic that I shouldve seen but it makes sense.  While Bendis is making a strong point of demonstrating strong interacacial relationships it also seems to take the "edge" off of his blackness maybe.

Or you can look at it as a previous poster said as Cage being comfortable in his blackness and individuality to actually do so.  Though a bizarre thing to do for Power Man this perspective makes sense to me as well.

Hey, it worked for Charles Barkley
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 06, 2007, 02:02:08 pm
Alias was one of the best reads this century so far, imho.

I loved Alias.  I can't stand Bendis on mainstream stuff, though I really enjoyed Ult. Spider-Man for the first 60 issues or so.

Alias was great because Jessica Jones was his own creation and that is where he is at his best (Goldfish, Jinx, Torso, Alias).  I did drop Powers about 6 months ago because it was getting annoying, in my opinion.

I was sad that a great book like Alias became that crap The Pulse. (sorry if someone likes that  :-\)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Moose100 on January 06, 2007, 02:12:32 pm
Hey Jenn I went to FAMU as well for a little bit  ;)!!!

I have too heard te argument that "Black collges are racist" by other whites without even considering their historical relevance and function and their admissions practices.  THey just automatically assume that HBCUs are "actively excluding white people".

Yeah but this debate on comicboards.com that I went through was totally unintentional.  It got worse because I told them truths that they couldn't handle.  I didnt pander to their worldviews.  Im thinkin that the ones who were the most heated were probably the ones that fit "that certain criteria" if you know what I mean. ;D

Then all of a sudden they were saying that " I was calling them racist" and that "I was making blanket statements".  All I really pointed out that Hudlin was providing an authentic African-American commentary and that doing so ruffles feathers.  The responses I got were simply amazing...   
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 03:15:39 pm
I tend to tell white people that most HBCUs were founded before we were legally allowed to read.

There are writers out there who can write a wonderful Storm, I'm sure. But thanks to Hudlin, I've been spoiled on having a BLACK Storm. I can't imagine regressing back to Storm the Earth Goddess again. My eyes can hardly stay open at the very thought.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Rasmane on January 06, 2007, 04:42:21 pm
What if Jessica Jones was Black, but otherwise the same character?

Some would still be asking for Cage to have get involved with a "cape" who was more together. I think it makes more sense for Bendis to have put the Black character he likes (Cage) with the kind of woman he's probably most familiar with (white), rather than "research" Black relationships and write comics that make us all sick in the process. Although I understand the cry for more healthy Black relationships in the media.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 06, 2007, 08:43:35 pm
What if Jessica Jones was Black, but otherwise the same character?

She'd be Monica Lynne. In other words, just as dull.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Loren on January 06, 2007, 08:44:36 pm
Many of the people who criticize Reg's BP over continuity remind me of those white people who insist the American Civil War was fought over states rights and the slavery thing was just incidental.  Just replace states rights with 'continuity' and slavery with 'a powerful black character'.


Speaking of which, if you're ever confronted with someone insisting that slavery was incidental to the South's secession, share this with them (http://lorencollins.net/secession.html).  It's a piece I wrote for my college paper a few years back, and it illustrates as clearly as possible that the Confederate leaders most definitely had slavery first and foremost on their minds.

Loren
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: GrimSkill on January 07, 2007, 08:48:42 am
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)

......I Still want my Story Arc Where Storm and Emma Frost Switch Bodys some how and can't Switch Back.

Then T'Challa and Ororo have to get used to having sex in and with Emma's Body


It's a Good idea Gosh darnet....





>.>



<.<



>.<
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 07, 2007, 08:50:50 am
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)

......I Still want my Story Arc Where Storm and Emma Frost Switch Bodys some how and can't Switch Back.

Then T'Challa and Ororo have to get used to having sex in and with Emma's Body


It's a Good idea Gosh darnet....





>.>



<.<



>.<


Never mention that idea again please...

Thanks.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: bluezulu on January 07, 2007, 10:39:29 am
I read alias and while cage "liked" jones he wasn't smitten with her. In fact subtly in the 70's cage had been portraid as a ladies man. In the 80's he had gotten with misty knight briefly when she and danny rand broke up he was able to "handle" the she hulk and today you have reg, detailing cage getting with the black cat on the sofa at his safe house. My point is that cage has always been a manwhore and that after a one night stand in which anal sex was involved one of his conquest that he kind of liked got knocked up. The two characters were in a strange point in their lifes with cage almost dying right? So it makes sence that cage would grow up a little bit do the man thing and take his reponcibilities. Yea he could have been a "babby daddy" and simply paid his child support but come on we all would have been madd pissed off at that. I think it was the better story as well as the most relistic showing of two street gritty characters to have this thrusted upon them. I look forward to that cage mini next year and some lucky mofo is going to have the book of the year on his hands when he tackle the story of these two raising a kid together. God bless that child, she is going to need it with parents like that. Should be a good read though.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Gooch on January 07, 2007, 11:44:22 am
Race scares the sh*t out of both white poeple, and the house need-to-grows.

Nighthawk can say and dow hate ver he wants in squadren supreme and nobody complains because the writer is white


The current Blade writer made Blade a half white son of a whore, and has made racial comments while fighting doom.   Nobody cares because the writer is white



Black Panther marries storm,  It is racist.  A white bad guy in a predominate white universe of marvel gets his ass kicked by bP it is racist/  IF BP talks to other like he is a King he is racist..

IF the Wakandans are shown gettign thier haircut or thier hair done, they are acting to african american,   If the wakandans are not living in Huts, they are to western.

Why is that,  It is a Black Man creating these images.   



In many fan-tards eyes,  black people should not have an opinion and should stay in thier place. 

More on this later
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: zulu801 on January 07, 2007, 11:58:53 am
if you got more then let me get some popcorn and enjoy reading more of your points.   :D
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: D- Ruck on January 07, 2007, 01:29:56 pm
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)

......I Still want my Story Arc Where Storm and Emma Frost Switch Bodys some how and can't Switch Back.

Then T'Challa and Ororo have to get used to having sex in and with Emma's Body


It's a Good idea Gosh darnet....





>.>



<.<



>.<

Why do you keep bringing that up?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: D-LO on January 07, 2007, 01:56:47 pm
Race scares the sh*t out of both white poeple, and the house need-to-grows.

Nighthawk can say and dow hate ver he wants in squadren supreme and nobody complains because the writer is white


The current Blade writer made Blade a half white son of a whore, and has made racial comments while fighting doom.   Nobody cares because the writer is white



Black Panther marries storm,  It is racist.  A white bad guy in a predominate white universe of marvel gets his ass kicked by bP it is racist/  IF BP talks to other like he is a King he is racist..

IF the Wakandans are shown gettign thier haircut or thier hair done, they are acting to african american,   If the wakandans are not living in Huts, they are to western.

Why is that,  It is a Black Man creating these images.   



In many fan-tards eyes,  black people should not have an opinion and should stay in thier place. 

More on this later
Thats pretty much the truth right there!!! Hudlin is making BP stronge and smart and for some reason thats considered wrong in these fan-tards eyes!!!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Static Froggy on January 07, 2007, 02:51:44 pm
i still dontknow why people are hating on black panther and not having read it. maybe im new to this whole comics communityt hingy
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: supreme illuminati on January 07, 2007, 03:14:05 pm
Race scares the sh*t out of both white poeple, and the house need-to-grows.

Nighthawk can say and dow hate ver he wants in squadren supreme and nobody complains because the writer is white


The current Blade writer made Blade a half white son of a whore, and has made racial comments while fighting doom.   Nobody cares because the writer is white



Black Panther marries storm,  It is racist.  A white bad guy in a predominate white universe of marvel gets his ass kicked by bP it is racist/  IF BP talks to other like he is a King he is racist..

IF the Wakandans are shown gettign thier haircut or thier hair done, they are acting to african american,   If the wakandans are not living in Huts, they are to western.

Why is that,  It is a Black Man creating these images.   



In many fan-tards eyes,  black people should not have an opinion and should stay in thier place. 

More on this later
I read alias and while cage "liked" jones he wasn't smitten with her. In fact subtly in the 70's cage had been portraid as a ladies man. In the 80's he had gotten with misty knight briefly when she and danny rand broke up he was able to "handle" the she hulk and today you have reg, detailing cage getting with the black cat on the sofa at his safe house. My point is that cage has always been a manwhore and that after a one night stand in which anal sex was involved one of his conquest that he kind of liked got knocked up. The two characters were in a strange point in their lifes with cage almost dying right? So it makes sence that cage would grow up a little bit do the man thing and take his reponcibilities. Yea he could have been a "babby daddy" and simply paid his child support but come on we all would have been madd pissed off at that. I think it was the better story as well as the most relistic showing of two street gritty characters to have this thrusted upon them. I look forward to that cage mini next year and some lucky mofo is going to have the book of the year on his hands when he tackle the story of these two raising a kid together. God bless that child, she is going to need it with parents like that. Should be a good read though.

I didn't know JACK about this until alluva sudden I saw it in NEW AVENGERS,you know? I didn't know they had anal sex...how did you know that? I never read THE PULSE ever,and now it seems like I have to go back and read like THE PULSE tpbs or something.Fo sho,bluezulu,I woulda been underamused if CAGE became a child support payin baby daddy,not because it isn't REAL,but because it sends the message of a negative stereotype...no,it REENFORCES THE NEGATIVE STEREOTYPE WHICH IS ALREADY HERE.Feel me?

I cosign these here posts fo sho.I don't even need to say anything about my perspectives in this thread cause all of you articulate folks have already said it,for the most part.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 07, 2007, 05:12:17 pm
Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

Hudlin, who helps run a black channel, writes black movies and writes a comic for a black audience is the thorn in these people's asses. Why? Because he can. Because he doesn't kiss lily white ass, he's deemed a racist. What the hell racist has Hudlin ever said? Reginald Hudlin alive and breathing pisses off crackerbrats. People like them don't see the difference between Hudlin and OJ. Oh, they WANT to like him. They really do. That's why they can't stop reading the comic. And oh God, if he would just smile a little more, be a little more gentle, bow a little more, scrape a little more...they'd love him. But he doesn't, and he's STILL one of the most talked about writers in the business, good or bad. And that's why you can't talk about race on comic boards. Because we all know what's up, but they'll never admit to it.

Exactly!  Jenn, your analysis is always a pleasure to read but this post was particularly incisive.

Many of the people who criticize Reg's BP over continuity remind me of those white people who insist the American Civil War was fought over states rights and the slavery thing was just incidental.  Just replace states rights with 'continuity' and slavery with 'a powerful black character'.  I find the respect T'challa presently recieves more inportant than minor continuity gaffes.

Though Reg, if you're reading this, watch you continuity. ;)

Excelsior!
Daoud

OOoooh...that brings up a sore subject with me, about the Civil War thing and people who say it was REALLY about States Rights. When I bring up slavery, their #1 response: the slaves would have been freed eventually. Eventually: today? A year ago? That's like saying, "He would have stopped raping her eventually" or "He would have stopped beating his ass eventually." >:(
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: GrimSkill on January 07, 2007, 05:24:15 pm
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)

......I Still want my Story Arc Where Storm and Emma Frost Switch Bodys some how and can't Switch Back.

Then T'Challa and Ororo have to get used to having sex in and with Emma's Body


It's a Good idea Gosh darnet....





>.>



<.<



>.<

Why do you keep bringing that up?

What are you talking about? This is only the second time ??? :-\


Anyway, Yes I Agree that people hate to feel uncomfortable.

Comicbooks have been "White boy Fantasy" for years and years and years. Infact thats the whole reason it was started

Videogames and Comicbooks are "that Geeky Guy's" Escape from the Real word in which He is considered a Geek by the popular white kids and the Popular white kids don't like him and all listen to Hip Hop and are cool with the Black kids and the Black Jock is Banging that hot white cheerleader girl the Geek has been scared to talk to since the 3rd Grade.

In Comic books and Videogames it's like a safe Haven to him,a way to get away from the popular crowed and see himself in the Role of the Hero and feel good about himself. In Real life he is Screaming in his head to the cheerleader "Why do you accept them but not me!? im your Own Race!! >.<". But in Comics and Videogames he can ALWAYS get the Girl.

BUT what Reg has Done (I don't know if Reg knew if he was intentionally doing this or not) is Create the same thing they see In Real Life. The Black Guy is Getting the Girl and Saving the Day and the Geeks see that they have to share their Fantasy life with the Very people who caused them to jump into this Fantasy life in the First place. :D

In Panther we have the Black highschool Jock Getting the Girl (Storm) and standing toe to toe or kicking their fav Character's behinds and this makes the Geeks Oh so Unsettled :D ;)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 07, 2007, 05:26:13 pm
As far as Jessica...why is she drawn as ugly? She's either ALWAYS drawn as homely or just buttrageous. Heck some issues she looks like Rachel Dratch from Saturday Night Live.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 07, 2007, 05:31:30 pm
cage should have been paired with Misty Knight. I personallyu don't like IR relationships especially in literature. It's like we are being bombarded with that 24/7..eegh
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 07, 2007, 05:32:54 pm
cage should have been paired with Misty Knight. I personallyu don't like IR relationships especially in literature. It's like we are being bombarded with that 24/7..eegh

In what way? Can you list some examples? Certainly of the white male/black female variety, but not of the black male/white female variety. That's why its odd the ONE example we have (Cage/Jessica) she's fugly, like that's as good as he could do.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 07, 2007, 06:08:27 pm
Quote
What are you talking about? This is only the second time 


Anyway, Yes I Agree that people hate to feel uncomfortable.

I heard it at least 3 times counting this one, maybe it was another guy, but I didn't think 2 people would bring it up.  And this isn't about being uncomfortable, it just sound ludicrous, no offense or nothing.

Quote
Videogames and Comicbooks are "that Geeky Guy's" Escape from the Real word in which He is considered a Geek by the popular white kids and the Popular white kids don't like him and all listen to Hip Hop and are cool with the Black kids and the Black Jock is Banging that hot white cheerleader girl the Geek has been scared to talk to since the 3rd Grade.

In Comic books and Videogames it's like a safe Haven to him,a way to get away from the popular crowed and see himself in the Role of the Hero and feel good about himself. In Real life he is Screaming in his head to the cheerleader "Why do you accept them but not me!? im your Own Race!! >.<". But in Comics and Videogames he can ALWAYS get the Girl.

BUT what Reg has Done (I don't know if Reg knew if he was intentionally doing this or not) is Create the same thing they see In Real Life. The Black Guy is Getting the Girl and Saving the Day and the Geeks see that they have to share their Fantasy life with the Very people who caused them to jump into this Fantasy life in the First place.

In Panther we have the Black highschool Jock Getting the Girl (Storm) and standing toe to toe or kicking their fav Character's behinds and this makes the Geeks Oh so Unsettled 


That's a cool way to explain the haters, but I don't see how switching minds with Storm and Emma is a good idea.  I mean, the Panther was meant for more noble things than shattering fanboy fantasy's right?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: GrimSkill on January 07, 2007, 06:24:11 pm
I heard it at least 3 times counting this one, maybe it was another guy, but I didn't think 2 people would bring it up.  And this isn't about being uncomfortable, it just sound ludicrous, no offense or nothing.

heh?...........Just so you know, the "what are you talking about" and the "I Agree that people hate to feel uncomfortable" have nothing to do with each other.

The "What are you talking about" was referring to the "why do you keep bringing that up?" Statement you made. I don't Remember anyone Bringing up Emma Frost Switching Body's with Storm more then once in this thread until now of course. Anyway after that I go on to Explane why I agree with most of the posters about this book making people uncomfortable.

Quote
That's a cool way to explain the haters, but I don't see how switching minds with Storm and Emma is a good idea.  I mean, the Panther was meant for more noble things than shattering fanboy fantasy's right?

It's a Joke,don't take it seriously.

If that ever happend I would probably Drop the book........actually no I would Probably keep buying just to see where they would go with it.....but I would Burn every issue of the Arc after I was done ;)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 07, 2007, 06:42:54 pm
Quote
If that ever happend I would probably Drop the book........actually no I would Probably keep buying just to see where they would go with it.....but I would Burn every issue of the Arc after I was done


Sorry, humor on the internet, especially when pertaining to comics can fly right over my head
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Rasmane on January 07, 2007, 06:47:45 pm
As far as Jessica...why is she drawn as ugly? She's either ALWAYS drawn as homely or just buttrageous...
Because some artists cannot draw an average woman. It's either idealized, comic book gorgeous or ugly-- nothing in between.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: JRCarter on January 07, 2007, 06:50:23 pm
As far as Jessica...why is she drawn as ugly? She's either ALWAYS drawn as homely or just buttrageous. Heck some issues she looks like Rachel Dratch from Saturday Night Live.

I don't really consider her ugly, per se. Just an unconventional beauty.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 07, 2007, 07:17:05 pm
Quote
In what way? Can you list some examples? Certainly of the white male/black female variety, but not of the black male/white female variety. That's why its odd the ONE example we have (Cage/Jessica) she's fugly, like that's as good as he could do.

I don't care if they drew here as the beautiful white woman. the black man was made for the black woman. I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 07, 2007, 07:50:39 pm
As far as Jessica...why is she drawn as ugly? She's either ALWAYS drawn as homely or just buttrageous...
Because some artists cannot draw an average woman. It's either idealized, comic book gorgeous or ugly-- nothing in between.

Well I can't think of any other examples of "ugliness" besides Jessica at Marvel, which leads me to think it was intentional. On DC's side, they have Mr. Terrific dating Sasha Bordeaux. Not only does she look like Pegasus's (from Yu-Gi-Oh!) long lost twin sister, she dated Batman. If Batman is essentially James Bond, who wants to follow James Bond? Ah well.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 07, 2007, 07:53:27 pm
Quote
In what way? Can you list some examples? Certainly of the white male/black female variety, but not of the black male/white female variety. That's why its odd the ONE example we have (Cage/Jessica) she's fugly, like that's as good as he could do.

I don't care if they drew here as the beautiful white woman. the black man was made for the black woman. I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.

I respect that you feel that way, however I was trying to compare a beautiful white woman with an ugly one, not black vs white beauty. I'm saying if, for whatever reason, they felt they MUST have Cage date a white woman, why is she drawn this way? I didn't read much of Alias so maybe this is the way Bendis intentioned all along. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, I'm just saying its...curious, is all.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 07, 2007, 08:02:47 pm

I don't care if they drew here as the beautiful white woman. the black man was made for the black woman. I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.

I think thats wrong on so many levels.  People were made to love people.  The color of their skin doesn't invalidate their love or make it wrong.  If the 2 individuals are in love, then thats all that matters.  Saying they are specifically there to love only people like themselves makes no sense.

And a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.  Personally, you might prefer black women.  Thats fine.  But saying that beautiful black women are always better looking than beautiful white women also strikes me as nonsense.  I'll repeat that in my opinion, a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.  Period.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 07, 2007, 08:51:32 pm
Quote
I think thats wrong on so many levels.


If your white I'm not surprised ::)

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People were made to love people.

black people were made to love black people,

Quote
The color of their skin doesn't invalidate their love or make it wrong.  If the 2 individuals are in love, then thats not all that matters.  Saying the are specifically there to love only people like themselves makes no sense.


The fact that I prefer Black women over white women makes no sense ::)

Quote
And a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.  Personally, you might perfer black women.  Thats fine.  But saying that beautiful black women are always better looking than beautiful white women also strikes me as nonsense.  I'll repeat that in my opinion, a beautiful woman is a beautiful woman.  Period.

If I prefer Black women over white women that means I think Black women are better looking always. I repeat my OPINION that a beautiful black woman will always look better then a beautiful white woman
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 07, 2007, 11:19:03 pm
Opinion? Dude, that's a FACT, plain and simple!  ;D And it applies for men as well. A black man in a cheap suit will always look better than a white man in ANY suit.

Quote
I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking white woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...white.

*edit* Wait, I take that back. I have a weakness for redheads. But compared to the sistas? NEH-VURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Marvelous on January 07, 2007, 11:51:50 pm

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking white woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...white.

Just a question, if I take this post and replace the word white with black...whatcha think?

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking black woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...black.

Wow.  what do you think that sounds like?  ;)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 12:13:12 am
Sounds like your opinion, which you're entitled to.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Marvelous on January 08, 2007, 12:33:16 am
Sounds like your opinion, which you're entitled to.

It was a general question, wasnt giving my opinion.  Something wrong Jenn, you seemed to be so mad all the time?  ???
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 12:50:24 am
Ah, yes. The "angry black bitch" suggestion. Must be Monday.  ::)

IF the Wakandans are shown gettign thier haircut or thier hair done, they are acting to african american,   If the wakandans are not living in Huts, they are to western.

Oh LAWD, I forgot all of that! For the new HEFfas, we swear to you that these are ACTUAL ARGUMENTS, not made up ones!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: sharcque on January 08, 2007, 01:09:23 am

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking white woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...white.

Just a question, if I take this post and replace the word white with black...whatcha think?

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking black woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...black.

Wow.  what do you think that sounds like?  ;)

To me, it sounds like if it was said on another board, that there'd be a thread started here linking to it, with the thread originator screaming bloody murder.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 01:13:43 am
White men don't find black women attractive (unless their names are Halle Berry or Beyonce), so why would I be upset if they said so? I'll say so. Don't like it? Go to hell.

In Panther we have the Black highschool Jock Getting the Girl (Storm) and standing toe to toe or kicking their fav Character's behinds and this makes the Geeks Oh so Unsettled :D ;)

Actually, I think it's more like the new guy in school asking out the homecoming queen that everyone else was too scared to ask out - including the jocks - and her saying yes. This really isn't as much about how Storm is being portrayed, no matter how much those people want to say it is. What this is REALLY about is a black man making a bunch of white men look like punks.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: sharcque on January 08, 2007, 01:19:58 am
White men don't find black women attractive (unless their names are Halle Berry or Beyonce), so why would I be upset if they said so? I'll say so. Don't like it? Go to hell.
Thank you for speaking for me.  It's good to know my likes & dislikes.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 01:22:51 am
You're welcome.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 04:44:51 am
Quote
black people were made to love black people

Then why can a black man/woman have perfectly healthy children with a white man/woman?

Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: sinjection on January 08, 2007, 05:48:21 am
Quote
In what way? Can you list some examples? Certainly of the white male/black female variety, but not of the black male/white female variety. That's why its odd the ONE example we have (Cage/Jessica) she's fugly, like that's as good as he could do.

I don't care if they drew here as the beautiful white woman. the black man was made for the black woman. I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.

I respect that you feel that way, however I was trying to compare a beautiful white woman with an ugly one, not black vs white beauty. I'm saying if, for whatever reason, they felt they MUST have Cage date a white woman, why is she drawn this way? I didn't read much of Alias so maybe this is the way Bendis intentioned all along. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, I'm just saying its...curious, is all.

Femininity is beautiful in all of its manifestations. IMAHO, there are no ugly women unless the woman herself believes herself to be ugly and behaves that way.

Now, I am aware that as human beings, we are attracted to those things that are pleasing to our senses. We like sounds that are pleasing to our sense of hearing. We enjoy foods that are pleasing to our sense of taste. We like touching and being touched by things that appeal to our tactile senses. We like smelling sweet and/or savory fragrances and we like resting our eyes on pleasant things. This said, there are some women and men who by accident of their birth (or the access to lots of money and expert cosmetic surgeons), are more visually appealing than other women and men might be.

I too have noticed that there are times when Jessica Jones has been rendered in ways that make her appear to be plain and homely. She certainly does not resemble Mary Jane Watson, Ms Marvel/Carol Danvers, Emma Frost, Wanda Maximoff, Janet Van Dyne or any of Marvel's white femme fatales that no black male character should ever get within sniffing distance of as far as the larger comic book-buying demographic is concerned. Cloak's partner Dagger has been drawn more  attractively than has Jessica Jones and notice, unless any of you have seen something I haven't - Cloak has never pressed his lips to Dagger's romantically. Not once. On the other hand, white male characters have been introduced into Cloak and Dagger books in order to allow many within the larger comic book-buying demographic to enjoy Cloak's jealousy as Dagger is romanced by those white male characters. I have to think that this is by design.

Oliver Coipel is such a fine artist, that it didn't seem possible for him to render a Jessica Jones that wasn't somewhat attractive. But it does seem that bald-headed Bendis writes a stereotypical Cage who fits the stereotype of some whiny white males that the only white woman a black man is capable of getting is a homely one, a fat one, or both  :D Blacks like Seal, Charles Barkley, and other male celebs with white women only have them because of their fame and fortune. Tiki Barber must drive some of those ol' boys nuts. His wife is Japanese-Korean.

So in response to your query BP, I have to think that Bendis was going for a measure of "reality" if by his instruction, Jessica Jones is to be "drawn down" the way she has been.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 05:48:31 am
Quote
In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right.

But when you sum it up to "yaaay segregation!" then you sound awfully retarded. Especially considering the connotations of the word and how it's rooted in hate and racism.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 08, 2007, 06:00:07 am
Quote
In what way? Can you list some examples? Certainly of the white male/black female variety, but not of the black male/white female variety. That's why its odd the ONE example we have (Cage/Jessica) she's fugly, like that's as good as he could do.

I don't care if they drew here as the beautiful white woman. the black man was made for the black woman. I have never seen a good looking white woman compare in beauty to a good looking black woman.

I respect that you feel that way, however I was trying to compare a beautiful white woman with an ugly one, not black vs white beauty. I'm saying if, for whatever reason, they felt they MUST have Cage date a white woman, why is she drawn this way? I didn't read much of Alias so maybe this is the way Bendis intentioned all along. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt, I'm just saying its...curious, is all.

Femininity is beautiful in all of its manifestations. IMAHO, there are no ugly women unless the woman herself believes herself to be ugly and behaves that way.

Now, I am aware that as human beings, we are attracted to those things that are pleasing to our senses. We like sounds that are pleasing to our sense of hearing. We enjoy foods that are pleasing to our sense of taste. We like touching and being touched by things that appeal to our tactile senses. We like smelling sweet and/or savory fragrances and we like resting our eyes on pleasant things. This said, there are some women and men who by accident of their birth (or the access to lots of money and expert cosmetic surgeons), are more visually appealing than other women and men might be.

I too have noticed that there are times when Jessica Jones has been rendered in ways that make her appear to be plain and homely. She certainly does not resemble Mary Jane Watson, Ms Marvel/Carol Danvers, Emma Frost, Wanda Maximoff, Janet Van Dyne or any of Marvel's white femme fatales that no black male character should ever get within sniffing distance of as far as the larger comic book-buying demographic is concerned. Cloak's partner Dagger has been drawn more  attractively than has Jessica Jones and notice, unless any of you have seen something I haven't - Cloak has never pressed his lips to Dagger's romantically. Not once. On the other hand, white male characters have been introduced into Cloak and Dagger books in order to allow many within the larger comic book-buying demographic to enjoy Cloak's jealousy as Dagger is romanced by those white male characters. I have to think that this is by design.

Oliver Coipel is such a fine artist, that it didn't seem possible for him to render a Jessica Jones that wasn't somewhat attractive. But it does seem that bald-headed Bendis writes a stereotypical Cage who fits the stereotype of some whiny white males that the only white woman a black man is capable of getting is a homely one, a fat one, or both  :D Blacks like Seal, Charles Barkley, and other male celebs with white women only have them because of their fame and fortune. Tiki Barber must drive some of those ol' boys nuts. His wife is Japanese-Korean.

So in response to your query BP, I have to think that Bendis was going for a measure of "reality" if by his instruction, Jessica Jones is to be "drawn down" the way she has been.

I've tip toed around it, but honestly, it looks to me they're having Cage date, procreate, and marry the one white woman a white man wouldn't want, just so they'd be no uproar. If she was some sort of bombshell like he normally dates and was white, well...something new for the fanbratti to bitch about. But he's "taking one for the team" and I'm sorry I don't think that's right, especially when they hold him up as the example of "Hey! We do interracial relationships!" Why did they use HIM as a tool to preach about woman are beautiful in all shapes? Why does he have to be a preaching tool at all? They could find no other use for him?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: sinjection on January 08, 2007, 06:01:13 am

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking white woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...white.

Just a question, if I take this post and replace the word white with black...whatcha think?

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking black woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...black.

Wow.  what do you think that sounds like?  ;)

It doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the differences in beauty where white people and black people are concerned.

I think that if the Panther had instead married Photon rather than Storm, there wouldn't have been a whimper of discord from the larger comic book-buying demographic. The Panther could have married Photon after one evening of passionate sexual activity...a flash marriage...and the only thing some of "those fans" might have said is that both characters were sluts. The Panther and Storm have a history...an ESTABLISHED history...that most of those in the larger comic book-buying demographic and even some black (or other) comics readers sympathetic to their arguments and anguish, choose to ignore.

Photon doesn't have facial features like Storm's which until somewhat recently, weren't as "African" as they could have been. Unlike Storm, Photon doesn't have silky, flowing hair and blue eyes. Photon didn't trip the "Thomas Jefferson" trigger for many readers in the larger comic book-buying demographic. But just as the "quadroon" Sally Hemmings whetted Thomas Jefferson's lusts, so too does Ororo whet the lusts of many of those ol' boys in the larger comic book-buying demographic.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 06:04:34 am

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking white woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...white.

Just a question, if I take this post and replace the word white with black...whatcha think?

Same here. Actually, I'd be very hard-pressed to name a good-looking black woman, period. They're not UGLY women, they're just...black.

Wow.  what do you think that sounds like?  ;)

It doesn't sound anywhere near as bad as what Thomas Jefferson had to say about the differences in beauty where white people and black people are concerned.

I think that if the Panther had instead married Photon rather than Storm, there wouldn't have been a whimper of discord from the larger comic book-buying demographic. The Panther could have married Photon after one evening of passionate sexual activity...a flash marriage...and the only thing some of "those fans" might have said is that both characters were sluts. The Panther and Storm have a history...an ESTABLISHED history...that most of those in the larger comic book-buying demographic and even some black (or other) comics readers sympathetic to their arguments and anguish, choose to ignore.

Photon doesn't have facial features like Storm's which until somewhat recently, weren't as "African" as they could have been. Unlike Storm, Photon doesn't have silky, flowing hair and blue eyes. Photon didn't trip the "Thomas Jefferson" trigger for many readers in the larger comic book-buying demographic. But just as the "quadroon" Sally Hemmings whetted Thomas Jefferson's lusts, so too does Ororo whet the lusts of many of those ol' boys in the larger comic book-buying demographic.

It is pretty interesting, yes. That Storm in the past has pretty much artistically been drawn as a white woman with black skin.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 08, 2007, 06:06:50 am
It's like having their cake ("She's black!...") and eating it too ("...but not really!") with the way she was drawn and the hair and all that. I agree completely with sinjection.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Toya on January 08, 2007, 06:07:26 am
Welcome back, Sin.

...You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right...

How and where can "colourblindness" ever be "a good thing when applied right"?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 06:15:29 am
The Panther could have married Photon after one evening of passionate sexual activity...a flash marriage...and the only thing some of "those fans" might have said is that both characters were sluts. The Panther and Storm have a history...an ESTABLISHED history...that most of those in the larger comic book-buying demographic and even some black (or other) comics readers sympathetic to their arguments and anguish, choose to ignore.

See Cage, Luke and Jones, Jessica.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 06:16:18 am
Welcome back, Sin.

...You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right...

How and where can "colourblindness" ever be "a good thing when applied right"?

Here's an example of for you:

Black man looking for work, white jobemployer sees his CV.

"Ha! No way will I ever hire this bastard! He's black so that means that he's lazy, uncooperative, and all he'll do is to try to sleep with my white female employees."

Totally diregarding the fact that this man is from a family that values hard work, only because of his skin colour.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Wise Son on January 08, 2007, 06:37:58 am
black people were made to love black people,
People were made for loving people, and no-one 'made' us.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Wise Son on January 08, 2007, 06:41:30 am
Here's an example of for you:

Black man looking for work, white jobemployer sees his CV.

"Ha! No way will I ever hire this bastard! He's black so that means that he's lazy, uncooperative, and all he'll do is to try to sleep with my white female employees."

Totally diregarding the fact that this man is from a family that values hard work, only because of his skin colour.
But he doesn't have to pretend the guy isn't Black in order to hire him (which is what 'colourblindness' amounts to - pretending that everyone's the same), he just has to accept that that blackness isn't a factor in the job, or how he's going to treat his co-workers. This is distinct from 'colourblindness' in that it's stupid to pretend that we aren't all different, but that doesn't have to mean that those differences are bad.

Sorry, I'm rushing a bit, as I have to get out of here soon, so I may not be expressing myself clearly.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 06:43:22 am
ahh then I misunderstood the term. Thanks for clarifying it.

Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Toya on January 08, 2007, 06:48:07 am
Welcome back, Sin.

...You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right...

How and where can "colourblindness" ever be "a good thing when applied right"?


Here's an example of for you:

Black man looking for work, white jobemployer sees his CV.

"Ha! No way will I ever hire this bastard! He's black so that means that he's lazy, uncooperative, and all he'll do is to try to sleep with my white female employees."

Totally diregarding the fact that this man is from a family that values hard work, only because of his skin colour.


Scenarios like the one you created are somewhat flawed because for one thing, the person exercising racism on a black person must first be a racist who believes that black is synonymous with inferiority.

Further, if this racist person is to ignore the black person’s skin color .i.e his main negative attribute then it does not make them(the black person) anymore equal and respected as a black person, or just as a person for that matter. The cure to racism is not to "ignore their race" or "focus on better qualities" instead, it is not associating negative sterotypes to individuals and/or groups to be unique truths.

I hope you get what I’m saying. I think the original connotation for the term “colorblindness” was probably “not racist”. Ironically, it makes a person's complexion a flaw that can be overcomed by pretending they aren't white, black, ruddy, tan etc. etc.   

Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Toya on January 08, 2007, 06:50:38 am
Ah, looks like I'm late.  :)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 08, 2007, 06:51:13 am
This is distinct from 'colourblindness' in that it's stupid to pretend that we aren't all different, but that doesn't have to mean that those differences are bad.

exactly
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 06:54:42 am
To sum up what Professors Wise Son and Toya have already so well elucidated:
the opposite of racist is not colorblind.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 08, 2007, 06:58:21 am
Welcome back, Sin.

...You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right...

How and where can "colourblindness" ever be "a good thing when applied right"?


Here's an example of for you:

Black man looking for work, white jobemployer sees his CV.

"Ha! No way will I ever hire this bastard! He's black so that means that he's lazy, uncooperative, and all he'll do is to try to sleep with my white female employees."

Totally diregarding the fact that this man is from a family that values hard work, only because of his skin colour.


Scenarios like the one you created are somewhat flawed because for one thing, the person exercising racism on a black person must first be a racist who believes that black is synonymous with inferiority.

Further, if this racist person is to ignore the black person’s skin color .i.e his main negative attribute then it does not make them(the black person) anymore equal and respected as a black person, or just as a person for that matter. The cure to racism is not to "ignore their race" or "focus on better qualities" instead, it is not associating negative sterotypes to individuals and/or groups to be unique truths.

I hope you get what I’m saying. I think the original connotation for the term “colorblindness” was probably “not racist”. Ironically, it makes a person's complexion a flaw that can be overcomed by pretending they aren't white, black, ruddy, tan etc. etc.   



Co-sign all day long.  8)

In that scenario he posted, the boss would be IGNORING his own racist tendencies to hire someone instead of actually dealing with them. Problem is those tendencies will still rear their ugly head one way or the other, probably in the form of the black guy  not getting many or ANY promotions like his white counterparts, cause after all, deep down, he feels black people are lazy so why trust him with more responsibility, even if he's proven himself again and again?

Colorblindness is like using Pepto when you have a stomach ulcher. Seems like its helping, but in reality the ulcer is getting worse and worse, you're just finding ways to ignore it until its too late.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 06:59:56 am
No no I agree now that I understand the meaning of it. I know what it is, I just thought that that wasn't the same thing if you understand what I'm saying.

Colourblindness is pretty much cultural assimilation. Which is a big nono IMO, no matter who does it. If it's whites in America or Arabs in Syria, it's basicly the same.

Still, Dora Milaje, if you don't want to mingle with whites then why are you living in America?

Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Vic Vega on January 08, 2007, 07:33:10 am
they prefer stereotypical images...there was a similar comment recently under BP # 23's comment thread on www.uncannyxmen.net where one said. "......now if BP starts to have lots of imperfections and starts to beat his wife."

Remember when people were talking about one of them having an affair? Preferably BP, of course, because Storm is oh-so-perfect and you know those colored men will screw anything moving.  ::)

......I Still want my Story Arc Where Storm and Emma Frost Switch Bodys some how and can't Switch Back.

Then T'Challa and Ororo have to get used to having sex in and with Emma's Body


It's a Good idea Gosh darnet....





>.>



<.<



>.<

Why do you keep bringing that up?

What are you talking about? This is only the second time ??? :-\


Anyway, Yes I Agree that people hate to feel uncomfortable.

Comicbooks have been "White boy Fantasy" for years and years and years. Infact thats the whole reason it was started

Videogames and Comicbooks are "that Geeky Guy's" Escape from the Real word in which He is considered a Geek by the popular white kids and the Popular white kids don't like him and all listen to Hip Hop and are cool with the Black kids and the Black Jock is Banging that hot white cheerleader girl the Geek has been scared to talk to since the 3rd Grade.

In Comic books and Videogames it's like a safe Haven to him,a way to get away from the popular crowed and see himself in the Role of the Hero and feel good about himself. In Real life he is Screaming in his head to the cheerleader "Why do you accept them but not me!? im your Own Race!! >.<". But in Comics and Videogames he can ALWAYS get the Girl.

BUT what Reg has Done (I don't know if Reg knew if he was intentionally doing this or not) is Create the same thing they see In Real Life. The Black Guy is Getting the Girl and Saving the Day and the Geeks see that they have to share their Fantasy life with the Very people who caused them to jump into this Fantasy life in the First place. :D

In Panther we have the Black highschool Jock Getting the Girl (Storm) and standing toe to toe or kicking their fav Character's behinds and this makes the Geeks Oh so Unsettled :D ;)

Co-sign X 2. Really. This is it in a freakin' nutshell.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 08:06:57 am

Still, Dora Milaje, if you don't want to mingle with whites then why are you living in America?

Because I can. Don't like it? Come kick my ass.

Quote
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?

Not only did you misinterpret it, you missed the f*cking point ENTIRELY. Herochat couldn't send over a smarter troll than DarkCrawler's stupid ass?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 08, 2007, 08:15:59 am
Quote
People were made for loving people, and no-one 'made' us.


once again Black people were made to love black people, are you the architect of creation. did you make yourself, or better yet did you will yourself into being from nothing.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 08:18:52 am
Whoawhoawhoa.

Some people think we were all meant to love each other. Some people think we should stick to our own kind.

Some of us think that all women are beautiful. Some of us reserve beauty solely for the sistas?

Some of us believe in a Creator; some of us don't.

Ready? BREAK!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 08:23:01 am
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:24:32 am

Still, Dora Milaje, if you don't want to mingle with whites then why are you living in America?

Because I can. Don't like it? Come kick my ass.

Quote
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?

Not only did you misinterpret it, you missed the f*cking point ENTIRELY. Herochat couldn't send over a smarter troll than DarkCrawler's stupid ass?

Haha where do you get off that I'm DarkCrawler?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:26:04 am
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.

I agreed with her post, but the way she shortened it to "YAY SEGREGATION" was retarded.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:26:37 am
Quote
People were made for loving people, and no-one 'made' us.


once again Black people were made to love black people, are you the architect of creation. did you make yourself, or better yet did you will yourself into being from nothing.

Then why is it that whites and blacks can have babies together?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: BlackRodimus on January 08, 2007, 08:27:11 am
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.

I agreed with her post, but the way she shortened it to "YAY SEGREGATION" was retarded.


Except she didn't do that.  ??? I think I'll believe my own eyes over you.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 08:28:26 am
Haha where do you get off that I'm DarkCrawler?

Your repeated use of the word "retarded", and the fact that you didn't say "I'm not Darkcrawler". You make a lousy troll. But I'm flattered that I get my very own troll for my birthday. 
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 08:32:44 am
Quote
People were made for loving people, and no-one 'made' us.


once again Black people were made to love black people, are you the architect of creation. did you make yourself, or better yet did you will yourself into being from nothing.
Naw, he was born, just like you.  You do realize there is no biological basis for race and that the notion is a social construct, right?  Which means that your opinions about who "should" love whom don't have any broader validity than whom you choose to love.  Everybody else gets to make their own choices.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: sinjection on January 08, 2007, 08:33:18 am
Welcome back, Sin.


As always, it's very good to see you Toya  :)


The Panther could have married Photon after one evening of passionate sexual activity...a flash marriage...and the only thing some of "those fans" might have said is that both characters were sluts. The Panther and Storm have a history...an ESTABLISHED history...that most of those in the larger comic book-buying demographic and even some black (or other) comics readers sympathetic to their arguments and anguish, choose to ignore.

See Cage, Luke and Jones, Jessica.

Ah, Ha!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Yaw on January 08, 2007, 08:36:42 am
Haha where do you get off that I'm DarkCrawler?

Your repeated use of the word "retarded", and the fact that you didn't say "I'm not Darkcrawler". You make a lousy troll. But I'm flattered that I get my very own troll for my birthday. Keep juggling, bitch.

Happy Birthday  Be nice please.


Ammar: If you have something to add to this forum why are you in a mud fight with Jenn.  I said it before and I say it again.  People who get into a mudslinging fight with Jenn don't have anything constructive to add to this board and are just temporary trolls.


There is are reason her name is "Dora Milaje."   ;)

Don't mess with the Adored One.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:39:30 am
Haha where do you get off that I'm DarkCrawler?

Your repeated use of the word "retarded", and the fact that you didn't say "I'm not Darkcrawler". You make a lousy troll. But I'm flattered that I get my very own troll for my birthday.

No, I'm not Darkcrawler. I'm Sidharta Gautama
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 08:41:02 am
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.

I agreed with her post, but the way she shortened it to "YAY SEGREGATION" was retarded.


Except she didn't do that.  ??? I think I'll believe my own eyes over you.
Well, I just searched this thread for "segregation" and there is no post from Jenn Dora Milaje with "Yay segregation" in it.  So you'll have to show us what you're talking about.  Unless you're mistaken in which case a retraction of your retarded accusation would be in order.

Aside from that, everyone please remain civil.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:42:12 am
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.

I agreed with her post, but the way she shortened it to "YAY SEGREGATION" was retarded.


Except she didn't do that.  ??? I think I'll believe my own eyes over you.
Well, I just searched this thread for "segregation" and there is no post from Jenn Dora Milaje with "Yay segregation" in it.  So you'll have to show us what you're talking about.  Unless you're mistaken in which case a retraction of your retarded accusation would be in order.

Aside from that, everyone please remain civil.

Quote
In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

Which heavily implies that SHE wants segregation
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 08:44:32 am
Quote
In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

Which heavily implies that SHE wants segregation
No, it doesn't.  Did you read my prior post?  Here:

Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?
Yes, Ammar, I think you did.  Check her post.  I don't think she was endorsing segregation.  Her usage wasn't clumsy, IMHO.  I think she was describing a double standard.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:45:52 am
Then please elaborate on it. Because in my mind it sure sounds like she's promoting it.

And seeing her other posts, I absolutely belive it
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 08:46:56 am
Which heavily implies that SHE wants segregation

It doesn't even LIGHTLY imply that I want segregation. Lemme tell you something, white boy. I don't imply sh*t. I say what's on my mind. If I endorsed segregation, I would just say so. You know why? Because there wouldn't be a goddamn thing anybody could do about me endorsing segregation if I endorsed segregation. You got that, white boy? Just so there's no confusion in the future.

Then please elaborate on it. Because in my mind it sure sounds like she's promoting it.

Nobody can elaborate on what I think except for me, white boy.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Vic Vega on January 08, 2007, 08:49:41 am
Haha where do you get off that I'm DarkCrawler?

Your repeated use of the word "retarded", and the fact that you didn't say "I'm not Darkcrawler". You make a lousy troll. But I'm flattered that I get my very own troll for my birthday. 

No, I'm not Darkcrawler. I'm Sidharta Gautama

You do not get to curse out our posters here, Troll.

I don't give a f*ck who you are.



 
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 08:50:48 am
Which heavily implies that SHE wants segregation

It doesn't even LIGHTLY imply that I want segregation. Lemme tell you something, white boy. I don't imply sh*t. I say what's on my mind. If I endorsed segregation, I would just say so. You got that, white boy? Just so there's no confusion in the future.

If you weren't FOR segregation you wouldn't answer my question on why you still live in America with "you don't like it? Come kick my ass!" instead of giving me a solid reason or explain yourself. I know because people like you ALWAYS answer like that.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 08:51:09 am
None of us give a f*ck who he is. Which is why he's acting like what he claims not to be - a whiny ass, attention-whoring, racist CRACKERBRAT.



Haha let me tell you this, sanjiac pidh.

If you weren't FOR segregation you wouldn't answer my question on why you still live in America with "you don't like it? Come kick my ass!" instead of giving me a solid reason or explain yourself. I know because people like you ALWAYS answer like that.


I don't have to explain myself to you. Your opinion of me means nothing. Again, this isn't your turf. When I bother acknowledging you, treat it like the gift it is.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 08:58:49 am
Then please elaborate on it. Because in my mind it sure sounds like she's promoting it.
I think the "in my mind" is the important phrase there.  She elaborated herself:

Disclaimer: the following observation is not an observation on the entire white race. I shouldn't have to say "some white people" every two minute. That being said, if what I say offends you, then you're probably one of the crackerbrats that I can't stand anyway.

In a sentence, segregation is okay as long as white people are okay with it.

To expound: white people feel comfortable in their comfort zone. They feel as long as they don't say "nigger", they're not racist (at the same time, completely ignoring institutionalized racism). And Because they're not racist, we should all be basking to glow in the white man's tender love. Anything less than that gets their asses up. Back when I was an X-Fan moderator, there were people who were angry, calling me a racist because I attended a historically black college (Florida A&M). I mean, how DARE I attend an institution that's predominately black! Why wouldn't I want to go to school with white people? And that in itself is a racist mindset. These are the same people who will fiercely argue against white privilege, or support "colorblindness", and will label anyone who doesn't fit their Black History Month By Way of Burger King pattern of a good Negro as "part of the problem", or "an embarrassment to your race" (see: lovecrafty).

To rephrase her summary, some white people get upset about only some kinds of segregation, e.g. HBCUs among others.  They are perfectly content to take full advantage of the privileges afforded them by virtue of being white in America and live de facto segregated existences but they're not "racist" on their terms. 
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 09:00:13 am
All right, that's enough.  Everyone take a break now.

Reopened for calm and reasoned debate.  Stop with the insults.  Try not to post in anger.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 08, 2007, 09:54:18 am
White men don't find black women attractive (unless their names are Halle Berry or Beyonce), so why would I be upset if they said so? I'll say so. Don't like it? Go to hell.

In Panther we have the Black highschool Jock Getting the Girl (Storm) and standing toe to toe or kicking their fav Character's behinds and this makes the Geeks Oh so Unsettled :D ;)

Actually, I think it's more like the new guy in school asking out the homecoming queen that everyone else was too scared to ask out - including the jocks - and her saying yes. This really isn't as much about how Storm is being portrayed, no matter how much those people want to say it is. What this is REALLY about is a black man making a bunch of white men look like punks.

OooOOOo!!! Hit em where it hurts girl..Im so glad I made this post!!!!


An interesting thing that came from this thread is the idea of the interacial portrayal of Cage/Jones. This goes back to my question at the beginning about authenticity.  Maybe as I have seen people accuse Hudlin of, there is "propaganda" on the part of Marvel to "take the edge off Cage" just maybe.  At the same time I recognize Bendis for portraying a interacial relationship.  Maybe the issue here is "placement". 

Secondly,  there is some shock here to SOME white people in that they were use to "white friendly" writing.  At the same time just because something is pro-black and a strongly black perspective does not make it automatically "anti-white". This is why I myself am puzzled at the amount of hate that SOME posters all over the net post.

So in addition to my questions in the beginning what is THAT all about folks???!?!?!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 09:57:30 am
Vic Vega said it best over at Newsarama:

Quote
I find it bizarre that you a read a comic called the Black Panther, about a Black superhero, written by a Black writer for a Black audience (much like Arana was for a Latina audience) and expect to have your perculiar world view represented.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 08, 2007, 10:04:40 am
Welcome back, Sin.

...You know, I agree with that post you made only for the exception of "colourblindness" which I do think is a good thing when applied right...

How and where can "colourblindness" ever be "a good thing when applied right"?


Here's an example of for you:

Black man looking for work, white jobemployer sees his CV.

"Ha! No way will I ever hire this bastard! He's black so that means that he's lazy, uncooperative, and all he'll do is to try to sleep with my white female employees."

Totally diregarding the fact that this man is from a family that values hard work, only because of his skin colour.


Scenarios like the one you created are somewhat flawed because for one thing, the person exercising racism on a black person must first be a racist who believes that black is synonymous with inferiority.

Further, if this racist person is to ignore the black person’s skin color .i.e his main negative attribute then it does not make them(the black person) anymore equal and respected as a black person, or just as a person for that matter. The cure to racism is not to "ignore their race" or "focus on better qualities" instead, it is not associating negative sterotypes to individuals and/or groups to be unique truths.

I hope you get what I’m saying. I think the original connotation for the term “colorblindness” was probably “not racist”. Ironically, it makes a person's complexion a flaw that can be overcomed by pretending they aren't white, black, ruddy, tan etc. etc.   



Thats a great point.  The negativity is hat should be reduced/eradicatied in eliminating racism.  The negative attatchements and connotations are what actually needs to be focused on.  Ignoring their race only says really that you're "treating them as the right race" whichever that may be and still acknowledging and attaching these stigmas to the very blackness being ignored.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 08, 2007, 10:07:30 am

Still, Dora Milaje, if you don't want to mingle with whites then why are you living in America?

Because I can. Don't like it? Come kick my ass.

Quote
Or did I misinterpet your clumsy usage of the word "segregation"?

Not only did you misinterpret it, you missed the f*cking point ENTIRELY. Herochat couldn't send over a smarter troll than DarkCrawler's stupid ass?

Oh Sh!#...tis post I created is a monster...LOL!!!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 08, 2007, 10:15:47 am
Hey this is going somewhere I never thought it would go..Things need to simmer down a bit...

This post was made with three basic questions in mind(see 1st post).  Obviously different worldviews exist. Talking about these same things and it becoming a great post on this site got into trouble on others. 

Honestly I think asking a black person "Why are you still in America" is highly insensitive.  Thats all there is to it for me.  You should know the answer to that question: to fight the good fight.  Asking something like that suggests to me that the way things are are right and here to stay, and no other race matters.  It has an imperialistic tone to it. African-Americans are definately not going to"put up or shut up".  When it comes to our very basic human rights that are being trampled upon.  I didnt read and take in this whole scenario that is occuring with that, but that one question struck me hard.

The Marvel Universe as much as I love it IMO suffers from a lack of "ethnic participation".  I believe that in the modern there are strides being taken to improve its racial participation.  In Quesada's quest to make the MU more a cohesive place I would hope that things like sales and mainstream appeal will take a backseat(Ideally...I know lol!!) to what what be making realness of the MU well...more real, more authentic.

Since Marvels inception, and we all know this it has been dominated by not only white characters, but white/western worldviews.  The addition of ethnic characters to the MU seemed to fill a certain quota/alleviate guilt.  I just think that the MU whould be a force to be rekoned with if it included as many worldviews/ethnicities as possible and in an authentic fashion.

Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 10:19:19 am


If you weren't FOR segregation you wouldn't answer my question on why you still live in America with "you don't like it? Come kick my ass!" instead of giving me a solid reason or explain yourself. I know because people like you ALWAYS answer like that.


He doesnt owe you anything. Im requesting something that I got in trouble for over on comicboards but why dont you reproduce this so called post before you go insulting people with such racially insensitive language?? 

IMO it sounds to me like youre taunting these individuals and not taking this disscussion as a real intellectual discourse.  So tell me why this is so??
[/quote]

Haha excuse me?

Who called who a racist?
Who called who a crackerbrat?


Exactly.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 10:30:26 am
Secondly,  there is some shock here to SOME white people in that they were use to "white friendly" writing.  At the same time just because something is pro-black and a strongly black perspective does not make it automatically "anti-white". This is why I myself am puzzled at the amount of hate that SOME posters all over the net post.
Some white people do believe exactly that.  That pro-black IS anti-white.  Some believe (or act as though they believe) that any perspective that differs from their own is unrealistic and thus invalid.  To offer a worldview in which they are secondary or absent is radical if not blasphemous in their view.  Remember the Boomerang example.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 10:34:38 am
Who called who a racist?
Who called who a crackerbrat?

To be fair, I believe it started with the retarded and clumsy remarks which were apparently based on a misunderstanding of the original post.  Either way, it ends now.  For everyone, contribute if you have something to say about the matters under discussion.  Stop the juvenile insults and name-calling now.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 08, 2007, 10:36:31 am
Quote
Quote from: kitamu Re on Today at 10:15:59 AM
Quote
People were made for loving people, and no-one 'made' us.


once again Black people were made to love black people, are you the architect of creation. did you make yourself, or better yet did you will yourself into being from nothing.

Quote
Naw, he was born, just like you.


Last time I checked there was a difference between the words born and made. he stated he wasn't made, which means he does not proscribe to intelligent design. If you believe that as well cool you are entitled to your OPINION.

Quote
You do realize there is no biological basis for race and that the notion is a social construct, right?


the words white and black are social constructs, being an african male or african female is biological. Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.

Quote
Which means that your opinions about who "should" love whom don't have any broader validity than whom you choose to love.  


Once again my OPINION is that the African (black) man is made for the African (black) woman. I have not told you or anyone else on this board who you should have sex with (love), If you choose to "love" animals or relations with animals that is your right to do so

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Everybody else gets to make their own choices.

that's the point of an opinion you have one like I do ::)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 10:37:28 am
Alright, sorry.

As for the original topic at hand. yeah It's pretty weird that some people feel so threatened by Hudlin's run
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Moose100 on January 08, 2007, 10:41:23 am
 

If you weren't FOR segregation you wouldn't answer my question on why you still live in America with "you don't like it? Come kick my ass!" instead of giving me a solid reason or explain yourself. I know because people like you ALWAYS answer like that.


He doesnt owe you anything. Im requesting something that I got in trouble for over on comicboards but why dont you reproduce this so called post before you go insulting people with such racially insensitive language?? 

IMO it sounds to me like youre taunting these individuals and not taking this disscussion as a real intellectual discourse.  So tell me why this is so??

Haha excuse me?

Who called who a racist?
Who called who a crackerbrat?


Exactly.
[/quote]


It needs to be said that it was one person that made these comments; not all.  The mockery in your tone no less is probably what led to such comments.  The arrogance in your tone is possibly what tipped the individuals hand.  Im not necessarily supporting what was said to you, but as a tidbit these types of things drives black people nuts IMO.  Its as if anything we say is "under review" by white people. Anything said by us is thus invalid.



Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: kitamu Re on January 08, 2007, 10:47:48 am
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As for the original topic at hand. yeah It's pretty weird that some people feel so threatened by Hudlin's run

are you one of those individuals. I mean I would take you seriosuly but you admitted you don't buy the book and you don't read the book either. Once you have read a couple of issues I think it will help you to get a feel for what everyone is talking about on the net
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 10:50:01 am
If you believe that as well cool you are entitled to your OPINION.
That was exactly my point.  I agree completely.

Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.
Again, I agree completely.  Since all humankind originates from Africa that makes your statement equivalent to Wise Son's.  Agreement all around.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Ammar on January 08, 2007, 10:56:44 am
Quote
As for the original topic at hand. yeah It's pretty weird that some people feel so threatened by Hudlin's run

are you one of those individuals. I mean I would take you seriosuly but you admitted you don't buy the book and you don't read the book either. Once you have read a couple of issues I think it will help you to get a feel for what everyone is talking about on the net

Do you wish me to be one or what?

I already said that I've read #1 - ca #12, and I didn't find any racial undertones or something like that in the book that were so gross that make people call Hudlin a racist.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: D- Ruck on January 08, 2007, 02:59:33 pm
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I think thats wrong on so many levels.


If your white I'm not surprised ::)

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People were made to love people.

black people were made to love black people,


We were made to love all people.  If we were only meant to love each other then how could black and white people have children?

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The color of their skin doesn't invalidate their love or make it wrong.  If the 2 individuals are in love, then thats not all that matters.  Saying the are specifically there to love only people like themselves makes no sense.


The fact that I prefer Black women over white women makes no sense ::)


Your preference is fine, but a rule it is not.

Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 08, 2007, 03:33:28 pm
were posts on this topic deleted because I left a post, came home, and now it is gone?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Jenn on January 08, 2007, 03:56:17 pm
Yup.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 08, 2007, 03:57:45 pm
Yup.

Why?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 04:06:03 pm
Yup.

Why?
Trying to reign in the madness.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 08, 2007, 04:08:11 pm
ok, I understand.  I just hope you know I was trying to bring everyone together with my post rather than push them apart.  There's no reason we can't disagree without everyone losing their mind  ;D
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 08, 2007, 04:14:16 pm
ok, I understand.  I just hope you know I was trying to bring everyone together with my post rather than push them apart.  There's no reason was can;t disagree without everyone losing their mind  ;D
I know.  But I deleted the posts you were quoting so I went ahead and deleted yours too.  No problem with what you said.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 08, 2007, 04:15:58 pm
I really have to use the spell check more often...my typing takes on a life of its own  :o
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Wise Son on January 09, 2007, 01:55:46 am
Whoawhoawhoa.

Some people think we were all meant to love each other. Some people think we should stick to our own kind.

Some of us think that all women are beautiful. Some of us reserve beauty solely for the sistas?

Some of us believe in a Creator; some of us don't.

Ready? BREAK!
;D Diplomatic Jenn? Interesting...
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Wise Son on January 09, 2007, 02:08:51 am
Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.
Again, I agree completely.  Since all humankind originates from Africa that makes your statement equivalent to Wise Son's.  Agreement all around.
Hah! Everyone agrees with me, even when they don't realise they're doing it!
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 09, 2007, 07:16:36 am
it's the Wakandan in ya, bruh.
viva wakanda
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 09, 2007, 10:06:12 am
i just realized that there was a Spell CHeck on this board.
cool.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 03:53:08 pm
As far as Jessica...why is she drawn as ugly? She's either ALWAYS drawn as homely or just buttrageous. Heck some issues she looks like Rachel Dratch from Saturday Night Live.

Heck. Art kinda imitates life here. How many times you seen a brotha with a girl of another ethnicity who is butt ugly or at least no beauty queen? there might actually be a couple of attractive sistas around but the guy chooses the other. I understand the whole "love has no color" theme and all but damn! I could never understand that about some brothas. Beyonce' or Bigfoot? They somehow end up with Bigfoot.

Makes me shake my head in confusion at times.... :)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing so.
Post by: GrimSkill on January 10, 2007, 04:07:29 pm
Best Believe all the white girls I step out with are Bangin,Im not getting yelled at by my Momma and my Sisters for nothing. But anyway the point is that Regardless,If you see a white Comic Book Guy with a Black Comic book Girl you can bet she is not going to look like Whoopi Goldberg(even tho that seems to be the type a lot of white guys like to date :-\)
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 04:28:59 pm
Best Believe all the white girls I step out with are Bangin, Im not getting yelled at by my Momma and my Sisters for nothing. But anyway the point is that Regardless,If you see a white Comic Book Guy with a Black Comic book Girl you can bet she is not going to look like Whoopi Goldberg(even tho that seems to be the type a lot of white guys like to date :-\)

Really? It has been my observation that white guys are seen mostly with decent to bangin' black women. Every now and then you see them with a Whoopie Goldberg clone (sorry, Whoopie. Bless her heart. :D) but that doesn't seem to happen often enough.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othe message boards for even doing so.
Post by: bluezulu on January 10, 2007, 04:32:44 pm
Yall act like yall aint smashed some 6 or 7s in yall day ::). Your boy luke just got jammed up with a 7 and did the big thing and owned up to his responsibility. Say what yall want bendis showed the realist negro moment at marvel that year. lol :D
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 04:35:28 pm
If you believe that as well cool you are entitled to your OPINION.
That was exactly my point.  I agree completely.

Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.
Again, I agree completely.  Since all humankind originates from Africa that makes your statement equivalent to Wise Son's.  Agreement all around.

Uh, I wouldn't agree. I think Kitamu Re was referring to african men and women of the African Diasporic period over last couple of centuries since the Middle Passage. NOT since the birth of human kind. There have been too many cultural differentiations since then so even if folks don't believe in race we can at least look at cultural groups and the stratifications within those specific groups for this particular discussion.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othe message boards for even doing so.
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 10, 2007, 04:38:02 pm
Yall act like yall aint smashed some 6 or 7s in yall day ::). Your boy luke just got jammed up with a 7 and did the big thing and owned up to his responsibility. Say what yall want bendis showed the realist negro moment at marvel that year. lol :D

Damn! I told Aquaveeta not to let those pictures get out. How will I ever convince Gabrielle Union to quit her husband and run away with me? Oh, no!  :o
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: GrimSkill on January 10, 2007, 05:00:45 pm
Best Believe all the white girls I step out with are Bangin, Im not getting yelled at by my Momma and my Sisters for nothing. But anyway the point is that Regardless,If you see a white Comic Book Guy with a Black Comic book Girl you can bet she is not going to look like Whoopi Goldberg(even tho that seems to be the type a lot of white guys like to date :-\)

Really? It has been my observation that white guys are seen mostly with decent to bangin' black women. Every now and then you see them with a Whoopie Goldberg clone (sorry, Whoopie. Bless her heart. :D) but that doesn't seem to happen often enough.

Yes whenever I see a White guy who is married to a Black woman...she is not normally what you would call....Hot.

Not saying white guys can't pull Hot sistas, But it seems like white guys like to Date the Hot ones but Marry the Fuglys and that just Boggles my mind >.<
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 10, 2007, 05:35:06 pm
If you believe that as well cool you are entitled to your OPINION.
That was exactly my point.  I agree completely.

Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.
Again, I agree completely.  Since all humankind originates from Africa that makes your statement equivalent to Wise Son's.  Agreement all around.

Uh, I wouldn't agree. I think Kitamu Re was referring to african men and women of the African Diasporic period over last couple of centuries since the Middle Passage. NOT since the birth of human kind.
Lacking the context to recognize sarcasm is one of the hazards of showing up late.  Not your fault.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othe message boards for even doing so.
Post by: Jenn on January 10, 2007, 06:47:22 pm
How will I ever convince Gabrielle Union to quit her husband and run away with me? Oh, no!  :o


Isn't she divorced (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9885821/)?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othe message boards for even doing so.
Post by: bluezulu on January 10, 2007, 07:57:03 pm
remember when black Hollywood would marry nobodies that no one would know. Seem like 10 to 15 years ago they wised up and started doing what the white folks do and keep the money in house and just marry for convenience. question do people in Hollywood really love each other or is it more like hey getting with you would be good for my career right now?
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 11, 2007, 12:35:04 am
If you believe that as well cool you are entitled to your OPINION.
That was exactly my point.  I agree completely.

Therefore for clarification the african man was made for the african woman.
Again, I agree completely.  Since all humankind originates from Africa that makes your statement equivalent to Wise Son's.  Agreement all around.

Uh, I wouldn't agree. I think Kitamu Re was referring to african men and women of the African Diasporic period over last couple of centuries since the Middle Passage. NOT since the birth of human kind.
Lacking the context to recognize sarcasm is one of the hazards of showing up late.  Not your fault.

 ??? Uh...ookaay then. Don't believe I was all that late since I read the entire exchange that occurred. Sarcasm can be hard to interpret via the written word on these types of boards sometimes. I didn't catch sarcasm in what you wrote, but if that is what it was then cool. I was just trying to bring some interpretation to Kitamu Re's response in case the meaning, as I saw it, was not expressed adequately.  I wasn't trying to offend.
Title: Re: Talking Race: Getting into trouble on othere message boards for even doing s
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on January 11, 2007, 08:27:05 am
Sarcasm can be hard to interpret via the written word on these types of boards sometimes.
True that.

I wasn't trying to offend.
No offense taken.  It's all good.