Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: Rutog98 on April 27, 2014, 12:28:29 pm

Title: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 27, 2014, 12:28:29 pm
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/)

This is exciting! :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Emperorjones on April 27, 2014, 01:44:02 pm
Hopefully Storm will get her just due. I was a fan of the marriage and still think the annulment was a bad idea. The Wolverine-Storm romance didn't do anything for me. I liked Pak's work on World War Hulk and War Machine so I'm guardedly optimistic that he can deliver a Storm series worthy of the character.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 27, 2014, 05:16:21 pm
http://comicsbeat.com/wonder-con-greg-pak-and-victor-ibanez-on-storm-solo-series/ (http://comicsbeat.com/wonder-con-greg-pak-and-victor-ibanez-on-storm-solo-series/)

It just gets better AND BETTER! LOL!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on April 27, 2014, 05:34:38 pm
This sounds like how I envision her...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Hypestyle on April 27, 2014, 08:01:54 pm
restore the marriage.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 27, 2014, 08:56:07 pm
Right now is not a good time to restore the marriage. She is just getting her own solo title. She needs some time alone to establish herself before she gets into any relationships. We need to see Storm as Storm. Let her have her moment in the spotlight for a while. I've only bought about 7 comics in the last 2 years or so because Storm was just wallpaper. Now that she finally has the opportunity to shine in a big way, I don't want her to share the spotlight with anyone right now.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on April 28, 2014, 09:35:04 am
As a person who happens to like Lois Lane better than Wonder Woman or Superman it's time to let BP/Storm marriage stuff go.Lois and Clark after 70+ years and an adoring fan base and Comic-wise D.C. has moved on. Comparably together five minutes and a base that never supported it (for reasons good and bad) why in the hell would they put that mess back together unless they want to ensure the books a miserable failure?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 28, 2014, 10:46:41 am
As a person who happens to like Lois Lane better than Wonder Woman or Superman it's time to let BP/Storm marriage stuff go.Lois and Clark after 70+ years and an adoring fan base and Comic-wise D.C. has moved on. Comparably together five minutes and a base that never supported it (for reasons good and bad) why in the hell would they put that mess back together unless they want to ensure the books a miserable failure?


Exactly! Here is part of a post I did on another board about Storm that includes a potential romantic interest:

Storm's supporting cast should be an international group of regular humans devoid of all super powers. Heck, I would love it if a man were introduced in the series where he and Storm became good friends and eventual lovers. He should be a regular human with no super powers. Imagine if this man were a multi-billionaire environmental enthusiast? This way, he doesn't detract at all from Storm in her own solo title in regards to the super hero stuff. It would be an interesting dynamic as well. How does a regular human man deal with dating a woman who has the will and power to end all life on Earth with power reserves on a cosmic scale? Or, he could just be head over heels for her and what she's doing for the Earth. The occasional appearance of a character like Kitty Pryde, or Wolverine, or Ms. Marvel, or Nightcrawler, or Gambit, or Invisible Woman, or Black Panther, or Yukio, or Captain America would be cool. However, I don't want to see another super powered person on her permanent supporting cast. They would be stealing some of the action from Storm.

Storm/BP is a very sore spot with the Storm fanbase right now. Trying to reconstitute a romantic relationship between the two will instantly ensure Storm's new title's failure as it will alienate too many fans. The marriage did not work out. It could have, but there were too many blunders which I have already outlined in another thread on this board. If Marvel wanted to try a Storm/BP relationship again, they need to wait a couple of years before trying to bring them together and let things build up naturally this time. However, a Storm/BP romance should be the furthest thing from their minds at this time and for the foreseeable future for the sake of the book attracting and holding readership.

On a different note, here is another interview with Pak regarding Storm's new ongoing: http://www.newsarama.com/20973-c2e2-2014-greg-pak-forecasts-fierce-storm-in-new-ongoing-series.html (http://www.newsarama.com/20973-c2e2-2014-greg-pak-forecasts-fierce-storm-in-new-ongoing-series.html)

Sounds great! Sounds like its going to be along the lines of "Worlds Apart" and look at how good that story was! :) In WAP, Storm had to balance being both an X-Man and Queen of Wakanda. She had to deal with a threat that threatened Wakanda, BP and the X-Men all at once. She balanced that out well and it was exciting. This ongoing looks to be along the same lines with her balancing world crusader and headmistress of the Jean Grey School.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on April 28, 2014, 12:12:18 pm
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 28, 2014, 12:18:11 pm
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.

I agree with this.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Hypestyle on April 28, 2014, 12:32:15 pm
 ::)  I wish this series well, and since Pak is a “name” player, I guess it will get more than perfunctory support, at least for now.  But I don’t respect how the marriage was dissolved, and I have zero interest in seeing Ororo paired romantically with various folks that fall into the “anybody but a black man at all costs.. Doop is single, right?” category. In full disclosure I’ve been on a comics-buying hiatus for the past 2 years, and so I wouldn’t be buying this in general.  >:( >:(
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 28, 2014, 12:38:52 pm
::)  I wish this series well, and since Pak is a “name” player, I guess it will get more than perfunctory support, at least for now.  But I don’t respect how the marriage was dissolved, and I have zero interest in seeing Ororo paired romantically with various folks that fall into the “anybody but a black man at all costs.. Doop is single, right?” category. In full disclosure I’ve been on a comics-buying hiatus for the past 2 years, and so I wouldn’t be buying this in general.  >:( >:(

I agree with you on the way the marriage was dissolved. It was terrible. Problem is, there are not too many Black characters in Marvel worthy of being with Storm. How many top tier characters does Marvel have who are actually Black? In her own title, maybe she could meet somebody new. An African-American guy we have never seen before. A new, created character who has no super powers at all, but is a very successful billionaire who happens to be very passionate about the things like sustainability and preservation and falls head over heels for Storm. They could start out as friends and eventually it evolves into a relationship.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on April 28, 2014, 04:14:09 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

I will forever call Marvel (and DC) out for their racist bullsh*t, and I'll keep doing it right in their faces, too, as I've been doing.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on April 28, 2014, 09:39:40 pm
restore the marriage.

chuuch!

This sounds like how I envision her...

sounds like the same ol'

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url] ([url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url])

This is exciting! :)


it could be....

New Storm Ongoing Title?  Who is Storm? I think She's...


http://youtu.be/opkRF3UZSJw (http://youtu.be/opkRF3UZSJw)

hhmmmmm....

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 28, 2014, 11:23:52 pm
http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/4/28/22416/c2e2_2014_storm (http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/4/28/22416/c2e2_2014_storm)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on April 29, 2014, 02:15:37 pm
I could so do without that horrible mohawk.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: The Evasive 1 on April 29, 2014, 02:47:55 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

I will forever call Marvel (and DC) out for their racist bullsh*t, and I'll keep doing it right in their faces, too, as I've been doing.
Cosign this.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on April 30, 2014, 07:38:44 am
Anyway interested in hearing g what the first arc is going to be about...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 30, 2014, 08:49:05 am
Anyway interested in hearing g what the first arc is going to be about...

This is all I've been able to find about the first story arc of the "Storm" ongoing:

Nrama: And who and what is she up against in the first arc of your new Storm series?

Pak: In a seemingly idyllic corner of the Caribbean, Storm takes on massive natural threats and uncovers even more deadly man-made dangers -- while dealing with a shocking challenge in the heart of the school in Westchester.

We're making a big statement about our hero and her world and setting up some pretty huge things with this first issue and I strongly encourage you to pre-order today with your local shop!


The synopsis of the first issue published this month in Marvel's July previews has been "classified".
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 30, 2014, 08:49:54 am
I could so do without that horrible mohawk.

I agree with this. She's much more attractive with a full head of hair.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on April 30, 2014, 03:18:09 pm
C2E2 2014: Greg Pak talks STORM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMlvd88ys2s#ws)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on April 30, 2014, 03:55:29 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

All of this. If they're not going to be lovers, why couldn't they have at least stayed friends?

And LOLing at rabid Storm fans coming to this place thinking that HEF would give even 1/64ths of a single f*ck about anything Storm-related. Not because of the dissolving of the marriage, but because of everything after. You couldn't pay me to read this sh*t. Anybody supporting this crap has even LESS pride than Black Panther fans who are still throwing money at Marvel.

I'm proud to say that Marvel has not gotten a dime of my money in years, and they sure as hell won't be getting it now. I'll read Klaws of the Panther before I ever read a Storm mini.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on April 30, 2014, 04:44:34 pm
All this and the book isn't even out.  It will be interesting to return to this topic after a year.   The book might be cancelled by then it could be the best selling comic of all time and Reggie hailing it as the best book he had read  in years.

That said it will be more likely cancelled within two years,  and I am being generous.

The lead character is a minority character, a female character and her power set is not focused on the physical.   (Very few characters make it in the solo market who are not known for strength,  agility, martial arts,  etc.  Fans like smashing,  kicking and punching.   Yes,  Storm is a good martial artist,  but she is not known for that. )

So,  I think she had an uphill climb to make it.

The publicity they are putting behind it is a good start.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on April 30, 2014, 05:36:18 pm
Yeah, but a LOT of books don't make it very far these days, whether they star minority characters or not.

And Greg Pak or Marvel could always show Storm using her hand-to-hand skills MORE than they have ever done in the past. (They had a perfectly good chance to showcase her martial arts/hand-to-hand skills when she visited Black Panther in Hell's Kitchen, but we all know Marvel botched that whole scenario up).

Even if Storm's solo book gets cancelled, Marvel could ALWAYS relaunch it, just like they keep relaunching all their other books (Captain Marvel, for one).
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on April 30, 2014, 05:54:28 pm
Korra vs. Ororo


http://youtu.be/kQO59b-SjY4 (http://youtu.be/kQO59b-SjY4)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on April 30, 2014, 09:28:05 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

All of this. If they're not going to be lovers, why couldn't they have at least stayed friends?

And LOLing at rabid Storm fans coming to this place thinking that HEF would give even 1/64ths of a single f*ck about anything Storm-related. Not because of the dissolving of the marriage, but because of everything after. You couldn't pay me to read this sh*t. Anybody supporting this crap has even LESS pride than Black Panther fans who are still throwing money at Marvel.

I'm proud to say that Marvel has not gotten a dime of my money in years, and they sure as hell won't be getting it now. I'll read Klaws of the Panther before I ever read a Storm mini.

The truth you spit is brutally honest and to the point.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 01, 2014, 01:19:33 am
The truth you spit is brutally honest and to the point.


True.

I've owned the trade paperback version of 'Klaws Of The Panther' for over 3 years and can't get through it because it's so contrived. 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Vic Vega on May 01, 2014, 08:05:01 am
I don't think Storm is a suitable character for solo stories.

I don't think the general readership is remotely interested in the kind of character work
that would go into making Storm into a suitable character for solo stories.

That said, I hope it does well.

The character has lots of fans who have been clamoring for a series and if the book crashes and burns outright, it will be just that much harder for characters like Kamala Khan, Misty Knight or Vixen to get a solo.

Other than that, I have no stake in Storm's sucess or failure.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 01, 2014, 09:40:24 am
I don't think Storm is a suitable character for solo stories.

I don't think the general readership is remotely interested in the kind of character work
that would go into making Storm into a suitable character for solo stories.

That said, I hope it does well.

The character has lots of fans who have been clamoring for a series and if the book crashes and burns outright, it will be just that much harder for characters like Kamala Khan, Misty Knight or Vixen to get a solo.

Other than that, I have no stake in Storm's sucess or failure.

Ummm, Kamala Khan already has a solo monthly ongoing.

It's called Ms Marvel.  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Vic Vega on May 01, 2014, 10:09:17 am
I don't think Storm is a suitable character for solo stories.

I don't think the general readership is remotely interested in the kind of character work
that would go into making Storm into a suitable character for solo stories.

That said, I hope it does well.

The character has lots of fans who have been clamoring for a series and if the book crashes and burns outright, it will be just that much harder for characters like Kamala Khan, Misty Knight or Vixen to get a solo.

Other than that, I have no stake in Storm's sucess or failure.

Ummm, Kamala Khan already has a solo monthly ongoing.

It's called Ms Marvel.  ;D

For how long?

Is that book selling?

Marvel would reasonably expect Storm to outperform Ms. Marvel (which may be facing cancellation even as I type this).

If its selling, coo.

I don't know that it is or isn't.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 01, 2014, 12:21:58 pm
I think at some point Marvel and DC are going to have to come to grips with the reality that most of their books starring minority characters are not going to sell well, and the companies will have to be okay with that, especially since they are making so much money from all of their Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Justice League and Avengers books.

At some point these companies won't have a choice in publishing minority-led books because once the narrow-minded crowd they are currently catering to dies out, who are the companies going to cater to then?

Also, the facts that some books ultimately fail never really stops Marvel from relaunching them. Black Panther has benefited from several relaunches (benfited in terms of getting several chances as opposed to the actual content of the stories, some of which have been controversial).
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 01, 2014, 01:33:45 pm
I suspect a lot of these relaunches are done to keep the trademarks alive,  not because they expect the titles to last.

But I think you have more confidence in the industry than I do.  I think when the current fan base dies out, the super hero comic industry is going to die with it.   Super hero movies,  cartoons,  games will continue,  but the comic form will die or shrivel to three or four  books.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BlackRodimus on May 01, 2014, 05:06:00 pm
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 01, 2014, 05:14:02 pm
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 02, 2014, 11:09:58 am
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 02, 2014, 01:55:38 pm
http://youtu.be/ePdMnX-gMAY (http://youtu.be/ePdMnX-gMAY)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: TripleX on May 02, 2014, 02:47:16 pm
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.

I agree with this.

I don't. It sounds like punking out, I don't think we should roll over just because some fans are afraid of a Black power couple. There are plenty of people that hate Superman and Wonder Woman together, that doesn't stop their book from being great or selling well.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 02, 2014, 05:00:02 pm
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.

I agree with this.

I don't. It sounds like punking out, I don't think we should roll over just because some fans are afraid of a Black power couple. There are plenty of people that hate Superman and Wonder Woman together, that doesn't stop their book from being great or selling well.

For some people, it may have been an issue of the whole "Black couple" thing, however, there were legitimate gripes about the whole marriage thing. Some people were turned against the marriage for reasons good and bad. Many people believed that being married to Black Panther was a drag on Storm's personality. There is merit to this. The whole thing started with the Storm mini written by EJD. In that story, BP proved to be a MAJOR drag on Storm's personality as her character was destroyed here to put T'challa up on a pedestal. Some of her early characterization right after the mini at the beginning of her tenure in the BP book was awkward. I'm thinking now about the issues where she and T'challa visited Namor in Atlantis and the Inhuman story. Keep in mind this all came right on the heels of that terrible Storm mini which drug on for 6 issues. In other words, there was at least 6 consecutive months (a month for each issue of the EJD mini) of really bad Storm writing in an effort to force this marriage followed by some awkwardness in her early portrayals of the BP title as Hudlin was trying to find his way with the character. That is not a good start at all and many of the Storm fans who were willing to give the marriage a chance were permanently lost during this time. While Hudlin's Storm did improve over time (and really arrived the 6 issues before Maberry came on), too much damage was done at the beginning of the project. Adding to this there was no realistic build up leading to the marriage and Storm being rushed into this union did not help things at all. Storm's character totally came out on the losing end at the beginning of this ordeal from the way things were handled at the very beginning.

Below is an article allegedly written by Steve Morris taken from another board a poster presented in a response on a Storm thread. This article summarizes the largest complaints to the Storm marriage I came across from other Storm fans during Storm's and BP's time together:

"As a result of Storm marrying Black Panther, she moved from the X-Men office to the Avengers office, where T’Challa is managed. This meant she had to be removed from Uncanny X-Men, annoying Claremont (who also lost Kitty Pryde at around the same time, and is rumored to be the main point of contention between him and the company). It also allegedly meant that Ed Brubaker’s plans to use her in his Uncanny X-Men run had to be initially quelled, as the focus had to be on establishing her as a supporting cast member to the Black Panther book. The wedding issue saw massive sales, and tied in to Civil War.

Once she moved across to the Black Panther solo book, there was immediate discomfort with Hudlin’s stories – which seemed to have awkward political agendas shoehorned in. To top things off, Hudlin’s dialogue for Storm bore little resemblance to her previous formal style, as she became what was essentially a cheerleader for her husband’s feats. At one point she sentenced somebody to death, when Storm has always been aspired to use non-violence as an answer.

There was respite from the iffy Black Panther title when Dwayne McDuffie decided to use the characters in his Fantastic Four run, brilliantly using them as replacements for Reed Richards and Sue Storm. There was suddenly a dynamic between the couple, which seemed realistic for perhaps the first time. Their repartee was funny, they seemed to like each other, and the series was favored by critics. But this was only a short-term move, and eventually the character returned to Black Panther, which was rapidly losing sales. A series of relaunches followed, none of them lasting for a long period of time despite a number of different sales tactics.

Editorial started to feel that they had a lame duck on their hands, solidified when writers like Warren Ellis brought Storm back to the X-Men and gave her more to do as a guest than Hudlin allowed her in the book she was meant to be a central part of. The marriage became an open joke among fans, who watched as Storm’s status in the X-Men’s world dwindle, to the point where Chris Yost’s 2008 Storm miniseries ‘World’s Apart’ was entirely focused on the difficulty she’d have in living her split life.

Hudlin failed to get the Black Panther cartoon a run on BET, instead having to settle for a direct-to-DVD release. At the same time, he left the comic book and was replaced by Jonathan Maberry, who couldn’t reverse the sales decline. The book was cancelled. Incredibly, Marvel’s most famous female character was now unused. X-Men writers started to bring her back into their world, with Matt Fraction setting her up in the X-Men’s Utopia location for a scattered bunch of guest-appearances. Black Panther, meanwhile, was nowhere to be seen. Having previously been promoted by a number of X-Men titles, the character was now seemingly ignored and viewed as a drag on Storm’s personality."


There are some things I disagree with in this article. For instance, Storm sentencing someone to death is within her character. While she did not start out that ruthless, she evolved into a character who was that dangerous. She stabbed Callisto through the heart in a knife fight totally unaware that one of the Morlocks present had the ability to heal the wound and save Callisto's life. She ripped out Marrow's heart in another knife fight in a different issue to stop a bomb and save the life of millions. She's killed Brood in fights and has used lethal force in other battles as well. She normally won't go that far, but push her far enough, and she will. The lady is capable of beserker rages worthy of Wolverine! This is canon.

The other thing I have to disagree with in the article was Storm's treatment when she came back to the X-Men. I can remember a Morlock story where her captors tried to hold her in a wooden coffin underground. (How stupid is that?!) She's pretty much been wallpaper ever since. This is why I've only bought like 7 comics within the last 2-3 years.

One more thing the article points out is the whole situation with the BP animated cartoon that was slated to air on BET. I don't see what that has to do with comicbook/marriage. I think the comicbook marriage and the cartoon are two separate issues and the cartoon thing should not have been included in the article. Nobody is going to be against the marriage because a cartoon did not air on BET. 

That said, to be honest, there's a lot of validity to many of the claims made in this article. I've already outlined my personal feelings on why I think the marriage didn't last in the "IGN deems Storm/Panther marriage bad" thread.

That said, the marriage is over. They are not going to put those two back together anytime soon if ever. Its time to put that to rest and look forward to other opportunities that are presenting themselves like this new upcoming Storm mini beginning in July. Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 02, 2014, 06:48:34 pm
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah... (http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 02, 2014, 07:21:51 pm
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah... ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif[/url])


If it is epic, then it wouldn't need anyone's support.  It would have all the support it needs.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Seven on May 02, 2014, 07:25:11 pm
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.

Money, write that letter now. Don't wait. Tell him the exact points you have stated and if he's as what people are saying, he will not go there. But like others have said. I just don't trust Marvel. They way they put this book out and the price tag isn't helping the book.

Though the editor David K. never seem like a hater. He seemed like he liked that Storm was Queen of Wakanda. I just don't think he had much power at the time. That might have changed, especially since he is co-editor of Uncanny Avengers with Brevoort and the addition of Mike Marts.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 03, 2014, 11:15:45 am
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah... ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif[/url])


If it is epic, then it wouldn't need anyone's support.  It would have all the support it needs.


Aside from a few issues, Christopher Priest's run on "Black Panther" was epic, yet it still needed a LOT of support that it never got, both from a reader standpoint and an editorial standpoint. If I'm not mistaken, Priest's Black Panther bopk was one of the best books that a lot of people weren't buying.

So just because a book is epic doesn't automatically mean it will have support or all of the support it needs. Plenty of good books needing support get canned while lesser mediocre books keep getting bought due to the characters involved and the creative teams involved.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 03, 2014, 11:25:43 am
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.

Money, write that letter now. Don't wait. Tell him the exact points you have stated and if he's as what people are saying, he will not go there. But like others have said. I just don't trust Marvel. They way they put this book out and the price tag isn't helping the book.

Though the editor David K. never seem like a hater. He seemed like he liked that Storm was Queen of Wakanda. I just don't think he had much power at the time. That might have changed, especially since he is co-editor of Uncanny Avengers with Brevoort and the addition of Mike Marts.

Seven, you are reading my mind. I'm about to put the finishing touches on a snail mail letter I'm going to mail to Greg Pak, probably on Monday. I originally intended for it to be a one-page letter but I think it's going to really be a two-page letter after I print it out...I kind of went off on a rant in the letter, but it's a preemptive rant that Greg Pak needs to hear. He's about to get a little history lesson on the whole Black Panther hatred from some of the Storm fans and the treatment of Black Panther in the X-books.

I'm also going to follow up this preemptive letter with other letters, because if Pak IS going to have Black Panther show up in Storm's book at some point, I want him to be well-informed of how great a character Black Panther is, the character that Stan Lee, Christopher Priest, Reginald Hudlin, Dwayne McDuffie and David Liss wrote, and the same one that Jonathan Hickman is writing.

In the letter I'm polishing up, I've even mentioned that Black Panther is King of the Dead now over in Jonathan Hickman's "New Avengers" book, so that Greg Pak might seek Hickman out in the future in case he is planning on Black Panther appearances.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 12:34:22 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good as we saw in the very early portrayals of these two characters going back to EJD. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: TripleX on May 03, 2014, 12:51:07 pm
The book is going to fail anyway, let's get real. It's a female lead title in the midst of the other Marvel Now titles She-Hulk, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel and Elektra. They all can't be winners, it will probably last a year.

As a reader I want to see Black Panther in the title, but most of all I don't want Pak to forget she's Black.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 12:59:20 pm
The book is going to fail anyway, let's get real. It's a female lead title in the midst of the other Marvel Now titles She-Hulk, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel and Elektra. They all can't be winners, it will probably last a year.

As a reader I want to see Black Panther in the title, but most of all I don't want Pak to forget she's Black.

I think the book can do better than the other female titles put out by Marvel. It has the potential to do very well. Guest-starring T'challa in the title will reduce the book's chances at making it. For the first year of the title, T'challa doesn't need to show up at all. Marvel should do everything it can to make sure the book is a success especially its first twelve issues. That means keeping T'challa far away from the title.

If the book does very well the first year, then I would not mind the Black Panther showing up the next year for an issue or two as a guest-star.

Also, what do you mean he doesn't need to forget she's Black? Elaborate. Classic Storm is just fine the way she is and always should be (I'm ignoring this business about Cyclops and Wolverine recently). She got a lot of fans that way. If by Black, you mean written like she was in the EJD mini, then I wholeheartedly disagree. That Storm will DEFINITELY fail if trying to carry her own title. That was not Storm at all. Keep her speaking patterns formal and keep her regal. I don't want a stereotypical portrayal of Black people with Storm. It's racist, divisive and its not the character that I and others fell in love with. Not all Black people act and talk the same way and that should be reflected in the medium. I think its wonderful and inspiring to see a Black character like Storm speaking as eloquently as she does while having all the regal bearing of a goddess and possessing that fierce, indomitable will and personality backed by her enormous power levels. This is why she is arguably the most popular female comicbook character with her only real rival being Wonder Woman and this needs to remain untouched. She's a character that breaks through the color barriers and one that millions of readers can relate to.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 03, 2014, 01:46:29 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough?? I'm sick and damn tired of black men and black women being purposely kept apart, both in real life and in comic books, TV shows and movies because of racist, close-minded, biased, bigoted, insensitive, fanatical, arrogant, delusional and irrational attitudes of certain segments of the population.

I'm taking a stand and I don't care who has a problem with it or who it pisses off.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 01:55:51 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 03, 2014, 02:10:29 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

Storm being "devalued" in order for Black Panther to look good is a lie spread by Black Panther detractors because they wanted to use every excuse in the book as to why they did not want Storm with that black man known as T'Challa but would drool and get wet whenever the pairings of Storm and Namor, Storm and Dr. Doom, Storm and Thor, Storm and Wolverine and Storm and any white man in the Marvel Universe is mentioned in terms of romance, babies and marriage.

Storm being "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good is a lie spread by Black Panther detractors who probably never read Hudlin's book, or just read one panel from a book, read it out of context and spun lies off that one panel to prove that they were "right."

And yes, racist fans will always be close-minded to Storm being with a black man, despite how well it is done, because they are racist. And I don't like rewarding racists by keeping black women and black men apart. That sort of thing is not my bag.

And yes, they are still emotional because they always get emotional whenever they see Storm being in a loving relationship with a black man as intelligent, charismatic, noble, strong, independent and handsome as T'Challa, because she has actually found someone worthy of her love. They'd much rather see her getting her vagina stretched out by white men in the Marvel Universe, most of whom are nowhere near as intelligent, charismatic, noble, strong, independent and handsome as T'Challa is. One of those white men even has to literally hide his face, for God's sake.

Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see? Don't force readers to see a black man and a black woman together in a title? Don't force readers to see a black woman and a black man being respectful toward each other in a title? You've got to be joking. Tell Marvel not to force readers to read about a black woman punching a black man in the face, an image that some Storm fanatics are STILL posting gleefully in Appreciation threads as recently as Thursday. Tell Marvel to not force readers to see the ultimate destruction of a black marriage out of the blue all so that it could be part of the stupid AvX storyline and all so that racist fans would no longer have to "put up with" seeing a black woman being married to a black man (who were put together by a black writer...OH NOES!)

To say that Marvel shouldn't force readers to see Storm and Black Panther in a book is incredibly insulting, since Marvel and some fanatic Storm fans have been incredibly insulting US and those who want to see a black man and a black woman in a loving marriage and/or a loving relationship, and they've been insulting us for YEARS with their racist bullsh*t.

Don't talk to me about force and what shouldn't be shown to racist readers and Marvel who caters to racist readers.

And given them time? Time for what? They've been racist for years, are still racist and close-minded and still pleasuring themselves to the thoughts of having Storm being man-handled by white characters. To this day, they are STILL bashing Black Panther and the marriage has been over for damn near two years. Give them time? Nah, dude.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 03, 2014, 02:30:28 pm

"If my girl can’t do what I want, I don’t want the girl,”
  ~ Donald Sterling

^ I don't know if you guys really read what you just wrote, but the conversation seems vaguely familiar...
do fan-boys feel this way, too? do they want Storm all to themselves? if so, the BP & Storm break-up makes since, now!


(http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Magic-Johnson-and-Donald-Sterlings-girlfriend.jpg)


"It will always be that way....It bothers me a lot that you're associating with black people. You're supposed to be a delicate white or a delicate Latina girl. You don't have to have yourself walking with black people." ~ Donald Sterling
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 03, 2014, 02:43:49 pm

"If my girl can’t do what I want, I don’t want the girl,”
  ~ Donald Sterling

^ I don't know if you guys really read what you just wrote, but the conversation seems vaguely familiar...
do fan-boys feel this way, too? do they want Storm all to themselves? if so, the BP & Storm break-up makes since, now!


([url]http://cdn.necolebitchie.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Magic-Johnson-and-Donald-Sterlings-girlfriend.jpg[/url])


"It will always be that way....It bothers me a lot that you're associating with black people. You're supposed to be a delicate white or a delicate Latina girl. You don't have to have yourself walking with black people." ~ Donald Sterling


I'm going to read Storm's ongoing solo book regardless if Black Panther shows up in it or not, because Storm is one of my favorite characters (or at least the IDEA of Storm as originally created is one of my favorite characters), and I never would have appreciated her if she had never become Black Panther's queen (because I had ignored her for decades before the marriage).

But I don't condone racist readers or Marvel rewarding racist readers.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 02:49:41 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

Storm being "devalued" in order for Black Panther to look good is a lie spread by Black Panther detractors because they wanted to use every excuse in the book as to why they did not want Storm with that black man known as T'Challa but would drool and get wet whenever the pairings of Storm and Namor, Storm and Dr. Doom, Storm and Thor, Storm and Wolverine and Storm and any white man in the Marvel Universe is mentioned in terms of romance, babies and marriage.

Storm being "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good is a lie spread by Black Panther detractors who probably never read Hudlin's book, or just read one panel from a book, read it out of context and spun lies off that one panel to prove that they were "right."

And yes, racist fans will always be close-minded to Storm being with a black man, despite how well it is done, because they are racist. And I don't like rewarding racists by keeping black women and black men apart. That sort of thing is not my bag.

And yes, they are still emotional because they always get emotional whenever they see Storm being in a loving relationship with a black man as intelligent, charismatic, noble, strong, independent and handsome as T'Challa, because she has actually found someone worthy of her love. They'd much rather see her getting her vagina stretched out by a white man.

Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see? Don't force readers to see a black man and a black woman together in a title? Don't force readers to see a black woman and a black man being respectful toward each other in a title? You've got to be joking. Tell Marvel not to force readers to read about a black woman punching a black man in the face, an image that some Storm fanatics are STILL posting gleefully in Appreciation threads as recently as Thursday. Tell Marvel to not force readers to see the ultimate destruction of a black marriage out of the blue all so that it could be part of the stupid AvX storyline.

To say that Marvel shouldn't force readers to see Storm and Black Panther in a book is incredibly insulting, since Marvel and some fanatic Storm fans have been incredibly insulting US and those who want to see a black man and a black woman in a loving marriage and/or a loving relationship, and they've been insulting us for YEARS with their racist bullsh*t.

Don't talk to me about force and what shouldn't be shown to racist readers and Marvel who caters to racist readers.

Prior to Storm joining the BP cast in his title, how long have you followed her?
Storm was TOTALLY devalued in several instances beginning with the mini series. In the original telling of the story where Ororo and T'challa first met as children (CC version), it was T'challa who needed rescuing and Storm who saved him from his would-be captors. It was T'challa who was all googly-eyed over Storm in the original tale as she literally just stole his breath away and his heart with her regal bearing, majestic powers and otherworldliness aura. I can recall at the end of their time together, she told him that the Song of the Wind was speaking to her and telling her to move on. He offered her a kiss and she said something like, "if that is your way." He was surprised that she was not all fawning over the thought of being kissed by a prince and wanted her to stay with him. In real life, the man should put the woman on a pedestal like that. It should not be a case where the woman is chasing the man. The man should be trying to impress the woman.

Dickey totally changed things around and wrote Storm like an ordinary girl living on the streets who was awed by a prince. She was up behind him and he talked down to her telling her to hold her hands together so she did not steal. She went on asking him if she were beautiful and everything looking for his approval. It was CRAPTASTIC and what was done to her character in that story was nothing short of an annihilation! It was TOTALLY disrespectful to that Black woman to rob her of her dignity like that when she had been written better beforehand. What makes it worse is a Black man messed up Storm like that while a White man wrote her up on a pedestal. Not even Jean Grey or any other X-women EVER got that quality of writing in their flashback years as little kids that Storm got. Storm has always been the strongest personality and most regal member of the X-Men. This includes both the male and female cast of the book. CC even established Storm as having a stronger personality and will than Magneto when Magneto joined the team. Got it? So the White writer showed deeper respect for the character than that Black writer, Dickey.

In the original telling of the story, CC's Storm NEVER looked down upon T'challa. She was always gracious and "divine". If Dickey was unhappy with Storm having to save T'challa because she's a female and T'challa is a male, he could have created circumstances to merit that without devaluing BP. What if T'challa ate poisoned berries the night before accidentally or was bitten by a poisonous bug in his sleep which would have slowed him down in that fight? Plenty of scenarios could have been used, but he opted to write Storm down.

Moving on, when the two characters visited Namor in Atlantis, Storm came across like an airhead, kinda like the wife just sitting there while the two men spoke. Storm is much more assertive than how she was portrayed in that story and should have partaken much more in the discussion there while offering a tremendously insightful perspective from her viewpoint. The three people there, Storm, Namor and Black Panther should have all be portrayed as equals. Also, there was some very weird speech patterns coming from Storm in that issue. I was able to look past it since Hudlin was new to the character and Storm is a tough character to write unless you know her. The way she was written here would have worked if it were Invisible Woman and Reed Richards talking to Namor, but not Storm. Of all the Marvel women I can think of, Storm has the strongest, most commanding presence...and that was because of the writing of a White man named Chris Claremont who instilled this in the character from the beginning. 

When T'challa met the Inhumans on the moon, Storm should have been present when BP was talking to Black Bolt. Instead, she stayed out with Medusa, the wife of BB. Again, if Sue was being written in the scene instead of Storm, it would be fine. Sue is used to sitting back and letting the man, her husband, take the lead as she follows. Storm, on the other hand, either leads or co-leads.

Of course, Hudlin's Storm got better as he went along and gained a deeper understanding of the character.

Initially, people were open to the idea of the marriage. The marriage issue between Storm and T'challa hit record sales for the title, if I remember correctly. It was the early portrayals of Storm in the title that happened when Hudlin was getting a grasp on the title and that HORRIBLE mini series that alienated the Storm fans, many of whom never came back to the title because of this.

After Hudlin left the book and Maberry took over, what happened to the sales? The first issue of Maberry's run saw a boost in sales from its declining numbers. However, readers picked up Maberry's first issue and read a book about Shuri (a character nobody cares about) and didn't buy another issue. Fans are not going to support a book about Shuri. Storm should have gotten the shine Shuri got there to increase sales. This proves as well that its not entirely because both characters are Black that the book saw a decline in sales. Fans lost faith in Hudlin because of the Dickey Storm mini (which Hudlin did not write) and some awkwardness in Hudlin's Storm writing that happened early on in his writing of the character. I think Hudlin could have brought those fans back by beefing up Storm's role in the title to equal Black Panther's and by telling big, epic, exciting stories featuring Storm's enormous power levels up against antagonists with exciting, earth shattering powers while playing up BP's technological prowess. (BP's technological prowess was played up in the book, but Storm could have done more.) Storm was not doing much in the X-titles at this time other than being wallpaper and tossing a lightning bolt here or there. Storm fans would have flocked back to BP if Hudlin had done this with Storm and the fans got wind of it. It was more like Batman=Black Pather's role in the book and Robin=Storm's role in the book. I think the book would have benefited more if it were 50/50 between the two.

You are quick to blame race for all of this, but I think you are overemphasizing it in this instance. I have shown how White writers have done well by Storm in their writing of her. I remember e-mailing with Claremont during the "Invasion" arc if X-Treme X-Men which happened well before even the idea of a Storm/T'challa marriage. One thing he commented on to me through e-mails was he didn't feel any guy was really good enough to date Storm. He totally held her in that high regard as the unreachable, untouchable "goddess" too good for any mortal man to court. The relationship she had with Forge under his run is essentially like a reflection of what happened when that "unreachable goddess" lost her powers and had to walk like ordinary folk. When she regained her powers, well, the relationship was over. It did not end officially, but it was just over as that chapter in her story was done as far as the writer was concerned. She and Forge were simply portrayed as good friends and nothing else after this.

When Claremont had this blond-haired guy named Cameron or something try and date Storm, there was such an uprising against it like you would not believe. The Storm fans were SO against it and would not let it go, that it drove him batty on the board he was on. They maintained that Storm was too good for that blond surfer mutant and were so successful in their endeavors that CC ended up just dropping the whole thing altogether and dropped Cameron and his sister both from the cast of the title after just a few issues. I can remember one post he made during the whole ordeal saying something like, "Okay, okay, I get it. I made a mistake with this. You don't have to keep rubbing it in. We'll correct it and move on." I was there. Those Storm fans would not let it go until after the dating thing was ended. It didn't take too long for them to get the results. LOL!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 04:19:49 pm
To clarify some of the things in my post above, there are some things I'd like to say.
In regards to the original portrayal of the Storm/BP meeting as children, what that story really touched upon was Storm's "unreachable, unattainable" goddess character in the way she responded to T'challa's desire to kiss her. Dickey totally did not get this "goddess" persona of Storm that was with her even before she was worshipped as a goddess. This whole goddess thing appeared to have become a part of her as soon as she began hearing the "Song of the Wind" and her powers manifested based iff what was illustrated in the original telling of the Storm/BP meeting.

Addressing the leadership thing, in her early portrayals of the BP title when the duet met Namor and the Inhumans, I stated above that she should have been an equal partner in those discussions which she was not. Storm's character is of the type where she would not have allowed herself to fall into a secondary role as she did in those instances. I can recall after she gained leadership of the X-Men, she told Cyclops point blank, "I lead the X-Men" when it appeared as if he wanted to regain the status of X-Men leader. There were other complications between Storm and Xavier that arose concerning the leadership of the X-Men which led to a heated disagreement between the two as both characters wanted to lead.

Storm is not the type to sit back and just allow others to take control. Sometimes, she may allow that permissively, but never just passively as we saw in her earlier portrayals of BP. Its just didn't feel right for the character.

Many Storm fans argued that Black Panther was a drag on her personality. It is because of instances like these that they make such claims. Don't always be so quick to write things off as racism. Sure, you are always going to have a racist sect when dealing with Black characters, however, many of the complaints were justified.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 03, 2014, 05:21:42 pm
>>>Rutog98

How many times are you going to keep writing the same cornball replies over and over and over again?

You're more repetitive than my turntable avatar.  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 05:26:46 pm
>>>Rutog98

How many times are you going to keep writing the same cornball replies over and over and over again?

You're more repetitive than my turntable avatar.  ;D

What can I say? Some people around here are stubborn! If they would all just agree with me, life would be so much easier for them as they would finally be able to bask in the light of truth!  If they had been enlightened to the truth the FIRST time I said this stuff, we would all be in agreement right now thus I would not have to go to the lengths I go to. Everyone should be at their local comic shops right now telling their comic suppliers to add the new upcoming "Storm" title to their pull list. We are not all there yet, but you don't have to fret, you don't have to worry, that ol' Rutog98 is on the case.  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 03, 2014, 05:44:57 pm
Speaking of comic book shops, this weekend I just happen to be cruising down the boulevard and passed by the one and only comic shop in Flo-Town around my way.  In front of this shop,  I see these white dudes dressed up as superman and didn't quite catch what the other dudes were dressed as... but they were wearing these silly, colorful costumes trying to attract people to enter the shop.

Have you ever thought of doing a gig like that to get readers at their 'local comic shops right now telling their comic supplies to add the new upcoming "Storm" title to their pull list'?

Think about it:

You can dress up as Storm!  Y'know, wearing a caped black, S&M outfit with a platinum wig and high heels.  Oh, and y'know what...?
You can shoot this on high definition digital video, do your Storm promotion thing and then upload to YouTube!

That will get readers into their local comic shops adding the new upcoming ''Storm" title to their pull list! I can assure you of that!  :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 05:55:02 pm
Speaking of comic book shops, this weekend I just happen to be cruising down the boulevard and passed by the one and only comic shop in Flo-Town around my way.  In front of this shop,  I see these white dudes dressed up as superman and didn't quite catch what the other dudes were dressed as... but they were wearing these silly, colorful costumes trying to attract people to enter the shop.

Have you ever thought of doing a gig like that to get readers at their 'local comic shops right now telling their comic supplies to add the new upcoming "Storm" title to their pull list'?

Think about it:

You can dress up as Storm!  Y'know, wearing a caped black, S&M outfit with a platinum wig and high heels.  Oh, and y'know what...?
You can shoot this on high definition digital video, do your Storm promotion thing and then upload to YouTube!

That will get readers into their local comic shops adding the new upcoming ''Storm" title to their pull list! I can assure you of that!  :)

Nah, I don't wanna take your job. My bodily features and mannerisms are far too masculine to pull it off. While I am told that I'm a very handsome guy, I could never look like a woman even if I tried. If you are getting tired of your job (I am told by women that standing heels all day can be a killer!), maybe you can get your daddy to dress up like that and hang out in the streets of New York telling folks to buy comics. I hear you pull off the Storm look well, and if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, your daddy probably has similar features to you, thus he'd make a much more suitable replacement for you than I ever could. :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 03, 2014, 06:06:08 pm
Speaking of comic book shops, this weekend I just happen to be cruising down the boulevard and passed by the one and only comic shop in Flo-Town around my way.  In front of this shop,  I see these white dudes dressed up as superman and didn't quite catch what the other dudes were dressed as... but they were wearing these silly, colorful costumes trying to attract people to enter the shop.

Have you ever thought of doing a gig like that to get readers at their 'local comic shops right now telling their comic supplies to add the new upcoming "Storm" title to their pull list'?

Think about it:

You can dress up as Storm!  Y'know, wearing a caped black, S&M outfit with a platinum wig and high heels.  Oh, and y'know what...?
You can shoot this on high definition digital video, do your Storm promotion thing and then upload to YouTube!

That will get readers into their local comic shops adding the new upcoming ''Storm" title to their pull list! I can assure you of that!  :)

Nah, I don't wanna take your job. My bodily features and mannerisms are far too masculine to pull it off. While I am a very handsome guy, I would be an eyesore of a woman. :) If you get tired of your job, though, maybe you can get your daddy to dress up like that and hang out in the streets of New York telling folks to buy comics.



There ya go! :)


This is the 'conversation' you really wanted to have here at HEF, right?   Instead of writing the same stuff over and over again.

Only one caveat, I was serious...  there really were these dudes dressed as comicbook characters to attract readers to enter the shop around my way today.  I mean, If I was walking down the street and saw a grown dude dressed as a comicbook character, that wouldn't entice me into going inside the shop...

--- I'd run in the other direction!  :)

Is this what guys have to do nowadays to attract readers to comicbook???  Troll discussion forums and dress as comicbook characters? ???

This is a serious question.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 03, 2014, 06:06:51 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough?? I'm sick and damn tired of black men and black women being purposely kept apart, both in real life and in comic books, TV shows and movies because of racist, close-minded, biased, bigoted, insensitive, fanatical, arrogant, delusional and irrational attitudes of certain segments of the population.

I'm taking a stand and I don't care who has a problem with it or who it pisses off.


I'm not even buying this comic or want T'Challa or anything Wakandan in this comic( I don't trust the x-office ) just dropping by to say Moneyspider is dropping straight up pure uncut knowledge( fresh off Peruvian boat )
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: TripleX on May 03, 2014, 07:08:37 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough?? I'm sick and damn tired of black men and black women being purposely kept apart, both in real life and in comic books, TV shows and movies because of racist, close-minded, biased, bigoted, insensitive, fanatical, arrogant, delusional and irrational attitudes of certain segments of the population.

I'm taking a stand and I don't care who has a problem with it or who it pisses off.


^ There it is, right there.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 07:27:41 pm
Hey, I bought every issue of Black Panther and have been a member of this board since the issues leading up to the marriage. There is nothing I am saying now that I did not say back then. That said, I was always rooting for the marriage to work. It did not work, so I moved on. I've tried to be fair and honest about everything from my perspective. That said, I've always wanted Storm to have her own ongoing title. This is a dream come true for me. I've enjoyed being a member of this board and wish this whole family could share in my joy of her getting her own ongoing. It would be nice if everyone would try out just the first 4 issues of the title to see if they like it. Just because she and BP broke up with each other doesn't mean the book should not get a chance. There isn't going to be a Storm/Wolverine relationship since they've already broken up and Logan is about to die. (I am SO glad they aren't going to be in a relationship. I agree with you guys on that point.) There isn't going to be an Ororo/Scott relationship either. I know that Genki posted a cover where Storm and Cyclops were kissing (no, just no, Marvel) and I don't know what that was about. I have only read about 7 issues in the last 2-3 years because the X-Men writing was so bad.

You guys sound like some of the Storm fans who kept knocking the BP title long after they gave up on it and they didn't know that things got better. You're knocking something you haven't even tried. I've started a pull box at my comic store again. This is something I haven't done ever since "Doom War" in the BP title. "Storm" is the only book on my pull list. This book is going to rock and you guys are going to be sorry when you finally catch on that you missed the first issues and your comic shop will be fresh out of the books you will have missed. I'm doing you a favor right now in talking this sense to you. Support the book! :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: TripleX on May 03, 2014, 09:02:02 pm
Hey, I bought every issue of Black Panther and have been a member of this board since the issues leading up to the marriage. There is nothing I am saying now that I did not say back then. That said, I was always rooting for the marriage to work. It did not work, so I moved on. I've tried to be fair and honest about everything from my perspective. That said, I've always wanted Storm to have her own ongoing title. This is a dream come true for me. I've enjoyed being a member of this board and wish this whole family could share in my joy of her getting her own ongoing. It would be nice if everyone would try out just the first 4 issues of the title to see if they like it. Just because she and BP broke up with each other doesn't mean the book should not get a chance. There isn't going to be a Storm/Wolverine relationship since they've already broken up and Logan is about to die. (I am SO glad they aren't going to be in a relationship. I agree with you guys on that point.) There isn't going to be an Ororo/Scott relationship either. I know that Genki posted a cover where Storm and Cyclops were kissing (no, just no, Marvel) and I don't know what that was about. I have only read about 7 issues in the last 2-3 years because the X-Men writing was so bad.

You guys sound like some of the Storm fans who kept knocking the BP title long after they gave up on it and they didn't know that things got better. You're knocking something you haven't even tried. I've started a pull box at my comic store again. This is something I haven't done ever since "Doom War" in the BP title. "Storm" is the only book on my pull list. This book is going to rock and you guys are going to be sorry when you finally catch on that you missed the first issues and your comic shop will be fresh out of the books you will have missed. I'm doing you a favor right now in talking this sense to you. Support the book! :)


(http://i62.tinypic.com/2evwz6a.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 03, 2014, 09:03:28 pm
I separate my feelings on Storm the character I love from those on the X offices that I loathe. Mistakes aside at the end of the day the marriage failed by way of their active participation. I agree Storm was poorly used in the Panther series but much of the criticism was absurd and delusional. The Storm Hudlin drafted wasn't the star of all things X Verse,she was was sitting dusty and ignored on the back shelf of the attic. Irrational hate aside Hudlin made her relevant again, he didn't this dishonor her he enthroned her. He gave family (cuz the other kids at the orphanage really aren't your family) added layers and a platform and prestige and they chose to waste that potential and that's on them. I gave up on the marriage with the advent of Age of X and that mess realizing things wouldn't improve and disgusted with the toxic foolishness.
    BP/Storm to me were a perfect match mindful of Batman/Wonderwoman in JLU (maybe why McDuffie wrote them well). I wish he was given the series instead of Mayberry...instead of anyone...didn't happen. But the past is past and I've moved on. Ill support the Storm book...but tentatively. I'm here for no BP shade. I think Cornell got the Storm fanbase cross sections with BP and Pax better because quiet as it's kept a large part of X fandom doesn't care for her and he needs not to alienate members (like me) of the base.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 03, 2014, 10:49:26 pm
Why didn't I think of McDuffie writing the book instead of Maberry? That would have been AWESOME! Thanks, Princesa, for mentioning that. Now I've gotta sit back and think about another missed opportunity. :( Well, at least this new "Storm" title opens a whole realm of possibilities for the character. The interviews with Greg Pak are very encouraging. He's saying all the right things and, best of all, this is a Storm solo title, not just another X-Men team book.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 04, 2014, 04:29:24 am
Similar to Geoff John's (who writes a great BP btw) or Bendis (who doesn't) , McDuffie is a name and brings his own audience.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 04, 2014, 07:12:01 am
...or did RIP
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 04, 2014, 07:16:59 am
...or did RIP



In case you weren't paying attention, that's exactly why rutog98 brought up Mr. McDuffie's name...  (http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/20.gif)

---as in, not gonna happen.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 04, 2014, 10:50:53 am
...or did RIP



In case you weren't paying attention, that's exactly why rutog98 brought up Mr. McDuffie's name...  ([url]http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/20.gif[/url])

---as in, not gonna happen.


Which shows just how disingenuous his argument is.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 04, 2014, 11:53:29 am
...or did RIP



In case you weren't paying attention, that's exactly why rutog98 brought up Mr. McDuffie's name...  ([url]http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/20.gif[/url])

---as in, not gonna happen.


Which shows just how disingenuous his argument is.


...or shows just how desperate the two of you are to make up crap I did not say. Neither of you can say that I brought up McDuffie prior to Princesa's post. It shows that your arguments are shallow and you can't refute my points sincethe both of you have been reduced to making false claims about things I said to try and win a point over. You sound like bitter sore losers. I've already gone into depth on this stuff on the "IGN Storm/Black Panther Marriage" thread. Perhaps, if you are really sincere, you should go reread what I posted there to brush up on your facts. I doubt you will since all you want to do is sling accusations which you know are lies. For the record, again, I already stated that if Maberry had focused on Storm instead of Shuri when he came on board, I believe the marriage would still be in tact today. Anyway, I'm not going through all of that again. I posted my feelings on this on that other thread. The point I was agreeing on with Princesa was McDuffie would have been an even better pick than Maberry, but I had not thought of it until she brought it up. Making blunders like this gives you away. You're irrational and delusional. You're just sore about the whole marriage thing and your emotions are getting in the way of logic.

Yes, racism from readers was an issue during the marriage, however, there were mistakes made with the handling of Storm at the beginning of the whole project that alienated fans of the character. Again, I've already explained all of this. If you are so sure of your ground, why don't you man up and point out to me specifically what I have said in my posts where I have gone wrong? If you are seriously man enough to take me on, don't just make general comments about things I supposedly said or what I think, do a post and quote things specifically  I've said in my posts that were inaccurate. I try to be honest and fair in my assessment of the whole situation. I seriously doubt you will take me up on this since you know I can back up my position and it doesn't go along with your feelings. Grow up.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 04, 2014, 12:13:43 pm
>>>rutog98

Here's the deal...   This isn't a win, lose or draw scenario.   No one here is desperate except you... remember you're the one with a book to sell. 
You also don't have a point other than to bring up issues from the past that don't even mean anything to anyone here. The word you're looking for to describe many fans of Black Panther and Storm here is 'disgruntled', not your word choice.
Another thing you might want to think about is learning how to separate one's 'feelings' from the reading material.  The Storm book? The fans here at HEF are simply not 'feeing it', so therefore, they're not interested in the book. 

What do you do in response?  You get personal.

You are a poor salesman.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 04, 2014, 01:09:18 pm
>>>Battle, I was trying to keep things kosher. You started in with the personal attacks on me just a few posts ago with the McDuffie thing. You attacked me and I have a right to defend myself. With my last post, I wasn't thinking of trying to get people interested in the book. The post I made above was me taking a shot back at you and the other guy who took a personal shot at me. Again, it was not an attempt at all to try and get people buy the upcoming "Storm" book.

Now, something else I wanted to say on the whole Storm/BP marriage break up thing. (Spoilers: This has nothing to do with buying the "Storm" book.) While I understand why people are upset about the break up (I think it would have been nice if the marriage was handled in such a way that both Storm and Black Panther fans could be happy with and would have supported), it is imperative to look at ALL of the contributing factors that led up to the annulment of the marriage. It is so easy to try and write it all off as just comicbook reader racism, but when taking a closer look at the situation, there were several different criticisms leveled against the ordeal revolving around the treatment of the character, Storm. In order to get to the truth, one must take a hard look at these criticisms and weigh them fairly to see if there is any validity behind them. While there was a racist faction out there against the marriage for the wrong reasons, there was a far larger outcry about Storm being devalued to make T'challa look good. If you go back a page or two on this thread, I posted an article written by some guy (don't remember who) who outlined what he believed were the problems with the marriage of the two characters. What he posited reflects how most Storm fans who turned against the marriage really felt about the whole thing. Many of those Storm fans that turned against the marriage were Black, by the way. While I do not agree with everything the author of that article said (I addressed some of my points of contention with his piece on that post), there was a lot of merit to some of what he said. I say this as a Storm fan who got into comics because of my love for the character and will only read comics that features Storm in a very visible role. Other than that, I have no interest in comics. You will not find a bigger Storm fan than me and I have a very comprehensive understanding of the character and her canon. On top of that, I supported the marriage and always advocated for it to get better and better and it did get better as their story together progressed. I bought all of the issues of BP from when Storm first started appearing in the title till the end of "Doom War".  So, when I say that there are merits to some of the complaints made from the perspective of Storm fans, I speak from a very knowledgeable POV.

Some of you on here are hoping for the marriage to be repaired. If the people who want the marriage to be reconstituted, or , at least a romantic relationship between the two characters established in the future, and wish for the long term success of that reunion, one must examine both the strengths and weaknesses of the handling of the relationship and marriage the first time around so as to avoid making the same mistakes over again IF a relationship between the two is to be attempted once more  in the future. Otherwise, you'll get the same results and the relationship and/or marriage will fail again with the readership.

Just like some of you (like Moneyspider) don't trust the X-office with Black Panther, many of the Storm fans don't trust a relationship between Storm and T'challa to be fair to her because of many of the many mistakes that were made with the handling of the character at the beginning of the ordeal the first time around. By the time the book started getting better, the Storm fans had already booked off.  Right now, it would be bad for business for the two characters to get together again. It won't have a lot of support. Storm doesn't need to be in a relationship right now, she needs to be alone to get herself together and come once more into her own. This upcoming solo title is a good opportunity for her in this regard. Let the Storm fans get their confidence back in Marvel regarding their favorite character before attempting to put her in a relationship with anyone. That would be the smart play, to be honest. Afterwards, if Marvel wants to try and put the two characters back together, they should examine the strengths and weaknesses of the first attempt to strengthen what was good and eliminate what was weak and replace those weak points with something better.

The reason I've been rehashing old issues is I'm trying to shed a light on the SOME of the truths of the matter that resulted in disaster for the marriage. I see that many people here are disgruntled about the whole thing, and I get that, but I try to offer a fair and balanced perspective on the whole issue. To do that, examples from the past have to be brought up. As far as the racist element goes from some of the protesters of the marriage, there is no point in spending much time on that in discussion. You acknowledge that its there, but then you move on from it. Don't dwell on those people. It will rob you of your peace of mind. You'll never be able to reason with a racist. Instead, look at the other things outside of the racist people that can be worked on, and improve where things can be improved. In bringing in a balanced understanding to the reality of the Storm/Panther marriage failure with the readership, I hope to alleviate some of the cross feelings about the whole thing so people can just move on and hope for a brighter future. It may not happen right away, but coming back to these boards after being out of comics for about 2-3 years and feeling the tension here about the way the marriage thing ended up, I felt it would be good for me to put my perspective out there. Given time, maybe SOME of the posters will who are not happy with the ordeal will come to see certain things and the atmosphere around here will start to feel brighter. That said, I am in total agreement with those of you who are not happy with the way the marriage was ended. I was not happy with the way the marriage was rushed into either, though. Those two instances will always be weakpoints to the whole ordeal.

Personally, I think Hudlin took on a daunting task in writing a Storm/T'challa marriage in the Black Panther title. Storm is larger than life and is truly an epic comicbook character. She has one of the biggest names in the genre and has one of the richest histories/background stories of all characters. (She certainly has the richest and most exciting history of all the X-Men characters!) Trying to balance a title centered on a marriage between these two characters is challenging to do since she could very easily overshadow the Black Panther. At the same time, Storm has to be allowed to shine as the great and monumental character that she is. Not an easy task, but Hudlin took on the challenge and the book was getting better and better.

There is no wonder that whenever Storm is included on an X-Men roster under Claremont, she is always going to be front and center. She has a tendency to even overshadow most of her big named X-Men teammates when written by this scribe who has a great love for the character. She overshadows them many times because her character is so rich, wonderful and powerful that and he puts her inner self and power levels up on display for everyone to see. The other X-Men characters simply can't compete! :)

(Hey, don't hold it against me for that last paragraph. I'm a Storm fan, I have to sometimes indulge and tell the truth just like it is!)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: A.Curry on May 04, 2014, 02:10:52 pm
>>>Battle, I was trying to keep things kosher. You started in with the personal attacks on me just a few posts ago with the McDuffie thing. You attacked me and I have a right to defend myself. With my last post, I wasn't thinking of trying to get people interested in the book. The post I made above was me taking a shot back at you and the other guy who took a personal shot at me. Again, it was not an attempt at all to try and get people buy the upcoming "Storm" book.

Now, something else I wanted to say on the whole Storm/BP marriage break up thing. (Spoilers: This has nothing to do with buying the "Storm" book.) While I understand why people are upset about the break up (I think it would have been nice if the marriage was handled in such a way that both Storm and Black Panther fans could be happy with and would have supported), it is imperative to look at ALL of the contributing factors that led up to the annulment of the marriage. It is so easy to try and write it all off as just comicbook reader racism, but when taking a closer look at the situation, there were several different criticisms leveled against the ordeal revolving around the treatment of the character, Storm. In order to get to the truth, one must take a hard look at these criticisms and weigh them fairly to see if there is any validity behind them. While there was a racist faction out there against the marriage for the wrong reasons, there was a far larger outcry about Storm being devalued to make T'challa look good. If you go back a page or two on this thread, I posted an article written by some guy (don't remember who) who outlined what he believed were the problems with the marriage of the two characters. What he posited reflects how most Storm fans who turned against the marriage really felt about the whole thing. Many of those Storm fans that turned against the marriage were Black, by the way. While I do not agree with everything the author of that article said (I addressed some of my points of contention with his piece on that post), there was a lot of merit to some of what he said. I say this as a Storm fan who got into comics because of my love for the character and will only read comics that features Storm in a very visible role. Other than that, I have no interest in comics. You will not find a bigger Storm fan than me nor will you find anyone who has a more comprehensive, encyclopedic knowledge base of the character than I do. On top of that, I supported the marriage and always advocated for it to get better and better and it did get better as their story together progressed. I bought all of the issues of BP from when Storm first started appearing in the title till the end of "Doom War".  So, when I say that there are merits to some of the complaints made from the perspective of Storm fans, I speak from a very knowledgeable POV.

Some of you on here are hoping for the marriage to be repaired. The definition of an idiot is somebody who does the same thing over and over again while hoping for a different result. If the people who want the marriage to be reconstituted, or , at least a romantic relationship between the two characters established in the future, and wish for the long term success of that reunion, one must examine both the strengths and weaknesses of the handling of the relationship and marriage the first time around so as to avoid making the same mistakes over again IF a relationship between the two is to be attempted once more  in the future. Otherwise, you'll get the same results and the relationship and/or marriage will fail again with the readership.

Just like some of you (like Moneyspider) don't trust the X-office with Black Panther, many of the Storm fans don't trust a relationship between Storm and T'challa to be fair to her because of many of the many mistakes that were made with the handling of the character at the beginning of the ordeal the first time around. By the time the book started getting better, the Storm fans had already booked off.  Right now, it would be bad for business for the two characters to get together again. It won't have a lot of support. Storm doesn't need to be in a relationship right now, she needs to be alone to get herself together and come once more into her own. This upcoming solo title is a good opportunity for her in this regard. Let the Storm fans get their confidence back in Marvel regarding their favorite character before attempting to put her in a relationship with anyone. That would be the smart play, to be honest. Afterwards, if Marvel wants to try and put the two characters back together, they should examine the strengths and weaknesses of the first attempt to strengthen what was good and eliminate what was weak and replace those weak points with something better.

The reason I've been rehashing old issues is I'm trying to shed a light on the SOME of the truths of the matter that resulted in disaster for the marriage. I see that many people here are disgruntled about the whole thing, and I get that, but I try to offer a fair and balanced perspective on the whole issue. To do that, examples from the past have to be brought up. As far as the racist element goes from some of the protesters of the marriage, there is no point in spending much time on that in discussion. You acknowledge that its there, but then you move on from it. Don't dwell on those people. It will rob you of your peace of mind. You'll never be able to reason with a racist. Instead, look at the other things outside of the racist people that can be worked on, and improve where things can be improved. In bringing in a balanced understanding to the reality of the Storm/Panther marriage failure with the readership, I hope to alleviate some of the cross feelings about the whole thing so people can just move on and hope for a brighter future. It may not happen right away, but coming back to these boards after being out of comics for about 2-3 years and feeling the tension here about the way the marriage thing ended up, I felt it would be good for me to put my perspective out there. Given time, maybe SOME of the posters will who are not happy with the ordeal will come to see certain things and the atmosphere around here will start to feel brighter. That said, I am in total agreement with those of you who are not happy with the way the marriage was ended. I was not happy with the way the marriage was rushed into either, though. Those two instances will always be weakpoints to the whole ordeal.

Personally, I think Hudlin took on a daunting task in writing a Storm/T'challa marriage in the Black Panther title. Storm is larger than life and is truly an epic comicbook character. She has one of the biggest names in the genre and has one of the richest histories/background stories of all characters. (She certainly has the richest and most exciting history of all the X-Men characters!) Trying to balance a title centered on a marriage between these two characters is challenging to do since she could very easily overshadow the Black Panther. At the same time, Storm has to be allowed to shine as the great and monumental character that she is. Not an easy task, but Hudlin took on the challenge and the book was getting better and better.

There is no wonder that whenever Storm is included on an X-Men roster under Claremont, she is always going to be front and center. She has a tendency to even overshadow most of her big named X-Men teammates when written by this scribe who has a great love for the character. She overshadows them many times because her character is so rich, wonderful and powerful that and he puts her inner self and power levels up on display for everyone to see. The other X-Men characters simply can't compete! :)

(Hey, don't hold it against me for that last paragraph. I'm a Storm fan, I have to sometimes indulge and tell the truth just like it is!)


Rutog98, though I agree with many of your points when looking at the whole Storm/Black Panther thing objectively, what are you really trying to accomplish?  I'm curious to see what Pak does with the Storm solo series as well. but coming on the Hudlin board overly trying to sell the book seems desperate...I can see debating certain ideas about how the character should or should not be portrayed, but the book will sell or not sell on its own standing, and if the x-boards are any indication, there should be enough X-fans to support the book for your efforts here not to matter.  Again, I can see your points and agree with many of them about how the marriage was handled, but Hudlin and Panther fans have valid gripes as well about how the X-books portrayed T'challa AND Storm post the break up. The affair with Logan, which is her biggest story since the divorce, was just stupid and a mark against who I've known the character to be since the Claremont days. Hopefully Pak will do better buy her and have some strong stories and definition of who she is that is relatable to her Claremont days and goes beyond even that.  I agree also that Panther should not be used for a long while, not only because of any negativity the "X-fans" might have, but it's been tired out and mishandled by the X-world too.  Let the characters stand and grow on their own before bringing them around each other again anytime soon.

I do think even the naysayers on here though will at least look through the book on the shelves just out of curiosity, if they don't buy outright.  But look, enjoy the book yourself, stop trying to get others to buy a book starring a character from a world they have current and somewhat valid issues with.  If they wanna buy, they'll buy.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 04, 2014, 02:39:14 pm
It's funny how you put the blame of the "slights" to Storm to everyone but the people who've written her recently as a X-Man. You're real quick to say how she was sub servant to T'Challa by Hudlin she has been written actually being sub servant to Logan( across two books ), Cyclops( who under Gillen's pen told her she needs him more the Logan ), Emma who basically has slapped her around in every panel they've had together and Kitty/Rachel who under the great savior Brian Wood have told her she ain't *ish. It's apparently ok however since they're all X-Men and his holiness Claremont brought her to the forefront decades ago( which also gets his questionable stuff a pass or out right ignored ).

You have done the exact same thing other lovers of Storm have done in that it's T'Challa's fault, no one cares about Shuri, Natasha/Khamla/Carol have stolen her spotlight and you fans are bitter then turn right around and say no I wasn't taking any shots at anyone or throwing shade at other characters( that have nothing to do or are even under x-office authority ) and despite showing anger and bitterness swear there is none coming from the end you stand on( while then at the same time telling us to buy this comic just cause and ignore the shade you've thrown out ).
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 04, 2014, 04:32:27 pm
It's funny how you put the blame of the "slights" to Storm to everyone but the people who've written her recently as a X-Man. You're real quick to say how she was sub servant to T'Challa by Hudlin she has been written actually being sub servant to Logan( across two books ), Cyclops( who under Gillen's pen told her she needs him more the Logan ), Emma who basically has slapped her around in every panel they've had together and Kitty/Rachel who under the great savior Brian Wood have told her she ain't *ish. It's apparently ok however since they're all X-Men and his holiness Claremont brought her to the forefront decades ago( which also gets his questionable stuff a pass or out right ignored ).

You have done the exact same thing other lovers of Storm have done in that it's T'Challa's fault, no one cares about Shuri, Natasha/Khamla/Carol have stolen her spotlight and you fans are bitter then turn right around and say no I wasn't taking any shots at anyone or throwing shade at other characters( that have nothing to do or are even under x-office authority ) and despite showing anger and bitterness swear there is none coming from the end you stand on( while then at the same time telling us to buy this comic just cause and ignore the shade you've thrown out ).


Your claims are ridiculous. I already said that I've all but dropped comics over the last 2-3 years because of the treatment of Storm. I am just now getting back into them. Also, I've stated several times that while she was in Hudlin's book, she became mere wallpaper in the X-Men titles during that time. I had stopped reading X-Men, actually, during the Matt Fraction run on the book and was pretty much only reading Black Panther. When Claremont's alternate reality X-book, X-Men Forever, came out, I read that title and haven't really read anything since that book's cancellation. I've already given my opinion on the Storm/Woverine relationship in the other thread. I am writing that off as Storm, in an emotionally vulnerable state, scraping the bottom of the barrel and rebounding hard by being with Wolverine. I stated this earlier and I went even further than this. If you are going to make a claim about my position on something, at least try and be honest about it. Don't try and muddy what I say just because I don't agree with every gripe you have.

To A. Curry,

I never said the BP fans don't have any valid gripes at all (I agree with some of their positions and have said  that in this and the other thread), but I am just taken aback to come back to these boards and find so much hate for the character, Storm, in all honesty. They liked her a lot here, its the fault of bad writing in the X-Men office that she's just wallpaper in the X-Men titles currently. Well, that is changing soon. Not only is she getting her own solo title, but her role in Wolverine and the X-Men has been beefing up recently. I've bought the last two issues and may continue buying the title. I think she is going to be front and center there once Logan is dead. Many of the hard feelings towards Storm that has taken root on these boards towards her is not fair. Also, I wanted to give a more balanced perspective regarding the reality on what happened with the marriage between the two characters in an attempt to try and alleviate some of the hate on the boards for Storm. All that said, your point is well taken. Everybody here now knows that the book is coming out in July. I think some, if not most people here will at least flip through the book in the store if not buy it as you've stated. I'm hoping what I have said has planted a seed in some people's mind that will ease some of the discomfort they have about the unfortunate Storm/BP thing as they will lighten up on the Storm hating as that seed blossoms in some of their minds.

I've done all I can.


Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 04, 2014, 05:20:22 pm
Nah... ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif[/url])


I'll see your "nah" and raise you a...

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KI9gcT8Agi4/TMiqZpYGKxI/AAAAAAAAAkE/TXuuMf4tyCE/s1600/no+no+no.gif)

And should someone ask why such a hardcore Storm fan would reject such a project, the answer is simple:

(http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/5e/72/015e72e1370a9692df76d071e7d267d5.jpg)

...and any Storm fan who IS looking forward to this tripe deserves the most vicious of ridicule. Rutog98, the minute I create an invention that will allow me to kick you in your ass every time you post, you (and your ass) are going to be in a world of hurt.

I've done all I can.

Yes, you have. You can always go back to CBR with this nuthugging bullsh*t. HEF has become a little too Drake-like for my tastes, but you? You take the delusional cake, candles, plate, knife AND baker.

The word you're looking for to describe many fans of Black Panther and Storm here is 'disgruntled', not your word choice.


Betrayed is the word I would use, but that's not why I'm not buying the book. I'm not buying the book because the way Storm has been portrayed after the marriage. As in, right motherf*cking now. Who's she going to f*ck in THIS mini? Again...

(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/I+do+not+give+a+single+f*ck.+I+am+the_520e0a_3647047.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 04, 2014, 06:29:28 pm
Nah... ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif[/url])


I'll see your "nah" and raise you a...

([url]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KI9gcT8Agi4/TMiqZpYGKxI/AAAAAAAAAkE/TXuuMf4tyCE/s1600/no+no+no.gif[/url])

And should someone ask why such a hardcore Storm fan would reject such a project, the answer is simple:

([url]http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/5e/72/015e72e1370a9692df76d071e7d267d5.jpg[/url])

...and any Storm fan who IS looking forward to this tripe deserves the most vicious of ridicule. Rutog98, the minute I create an invention that will allow me to kick you in your ass every time you post, you (and your ass) are going to be in a world of hurt.

I've done all I can.

Yes, you have. You can always go back to CBR with this nuthugging bullsh*t. HEF has become a little too Drake-like for my tastes, but you? You take the delusional cake, candles, plate, knife AND baker.

The word you're looking for to describe many fans of Black Panther and Storm here is 'disgruntled', not your word choice.


Betrayed is the word I would use, but that's not why I'm not buying the book. I'm not buying the book because the way Storm has been portrayed after the marriage. As in, right motherf*cking now. Who's she going to f*ck in THIS mini? Again...

([url]http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/I+do+not+give+a+single+f[/url]*ck.+I+am+the_520e0a_3647047.jpg)


As usual, Maxine Shaw's spitting that undiluted and unfilterred raw truth singned, sealed and delivered with that ether that burns real good.  8)

Storm finally gets a solo after every other tom, dick and harry does and some see that as cause to go all....

(http://i61.tinypic.com/t7zyu0.jpg)

rather than realizing that in the wake of Marvel releasing solos featuring evry other character under the sun, the fact that they hadn't done the same for Storm looked mad suspect.

I find it very ironic that it was a majority of Black Panther fans on CBR that kept on raising this question whilst many X-fans posting on the notoriously racist X-boards decided to show their true colors by posting increasingly comments about how useless and irrelavent they felt Storm was much to the shock, horror and chagrin of some of the sself same Storm fans who joined up with this rablle to disrespect the Black Panther and his fanbase on CBR as if their lives depended on it.

At the end of the day, I just find it laughable for anyone to have the arrogance to suggest that thye're doing anything to "encourage" anyone on here to read anything independent of their own will.

If Greg Pak comes correct on the book that will no doubt be good for Storm as a character. But if he opts to pull the same sh*t that other X-writers have done by way of disrespecting T'Challa as a character, then f*ck him and everyone down with him.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 04, 2014, 06:42:25 pm
...or did RIP



In case you weren't paying attention, that's exactly why rutog98 brought up Mr. McDuffie's name...  ([url]http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/20.gif[/url])

---as in, not gonna happen.


Which shows just how disingenuous his argument is.


...or shows just how desperate the two of you are to make up crap I did not say. Neither of you can say that I brought up McDuffie prior to Princesa's post. It shows that your arguments are shallow and you can't refute my points sincethe both of you have been reduced to making false claims about things I said to try and win a point over. You sound like bitter sore losers. I've already gone into depth on this stuff on the "IGN Storm/Black Panther Marriage" thread. Perhaps, if you are really sincere, you should go reread what I posted there to brush up on your facts. I doubt you will since all you want to do is sling accusations which you know are lies. For the record, again, I already stated that if Maberry had focused on Storm instead of Shuri when he came on board, I believe the marriage would still be in tact today. Anyway, I'm not going through all of that again. I posted my feelings on this on that other thread. The point I was agreeing on with Princesa was McDuffie would have been an even better pick than Maberry, but I had not thought of it until she brought it up. Making blunders like this gives you away. You're irrational and delusional. You're just sore about the whole marriage thing and your emotions are getting in the way of logic.

Yes, racism from readers was an issue during the marriage, however, there were mistakes made with the handling of Storm at the beginning of the whole project that alienated fans of the character. Again, I've already explained all of this. If you are so sure of your ground, why don't you man up and point out to me specifically what I have said in my posts where I have gone wrong? If you are seriously man enough to take me on, don't just make general comments about things I supposedly said or what I think, do a post and quote things specifically  I've said in my posts that were inaccurate. I try to be honest and fair in my assessment of the whole situation. I seriously doubt you will take me up on this since you know I can back up my position and it doesn't go along with your feelings. Grow up.


The only person making shallow and exceedingly vapid comments in this forum at present is yourself, so please spare us from anymore of this peurile nonsense you've been spouting with every post you've dropped here so far.

Your assessement of the BP/Storm marriage was nonsensical to say the least and the fact that you seem to be of the impression that there are readers desperate to see T'Challa and Ororo back together again, says a lot about the obvious delusion that you seem to share with the X-Office who post AvX, haven't been able to pass up a single opportunity to troll T'Challa's character or mock Ororo in the process of doing so.

You talk about making valid points in your posts when everything you've dropped so far has reeked of disdain for what Reginald Hudlin did with T'Challa and Ororo just because of the rubbishe that EJD wrote.

Please miss us with your revisionist rubbish and get back to hugging the X-nutsack.

(http://i59.tinypic.com/mkye6o.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/11j2g06.jpg)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/1071jif.jpg)
(http://i57.tinypic.com/sb5uu8.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/zjxxsl.jpg)

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2gsg752.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 04, 2014, 07:03:19 pm
Nah... ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/33.gif[/url])


I'll see your "nah" and raise you a...

([url]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_KI9gcT8Agi4/TMiqZpYGKxI/AAAAAAAAAkE/TXuuMf4tyCE/s1600/no+no+no.gif[/url])

And should someone ask why such a hardcore Storm fan would reject such a project, the answer is simple:

([url]http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/01/5e/72/015e72e1370a9692df76d071e7d267d5.jpg[/url])

...and any Storm fan who IS looking forward to this tripe deserves the most vicious of ridicule. Rutog98, the minute I create an invention that will allow me to kick you in your ass every time you post, you (and your ass) are going to be in a world of hurt.

I've done all I can.

Yes, you have. You can always go back to CBR with this nuthugging bullsh*t. HEF has become a little too Drake-like for my tastes, but you? You take the delusional cake, candles, plate, knife AND baker.

The word you're looking for to describe many fans of Black Panther and Storm here is 'disgruntled', not your word choice.


Betrayed is the word I would use, but that's not why I'm not buying the book. I'm not buying the book because the way Storm has been portrayed after the marriage. As in, right motherf*cking now. Who's she going to f*ck in THIS mini? Again...

([url]http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/I+do+not+give+a+single+f[/url]*ck.+I+am+the_520e0a_3647047.jpg)


All this goes to show that I'm smarter than you. Its not my fault you didn't have the sense to stop keeping up with what was going on in the title while those x-writers were destroying Storm's character AFTER the marriage. You people are going on and on about bad Storm writing after the marriage, but I didn't read those issues. You know why? Because what they have been writing in the X-Men titles haven't felt like Storm to me in years. I stopped reading X-Men early during the Matt Fraction run back with Hudlin was still writing Black Panther.I've just been ghosting on boards every blue moon to see if anything was changing regarding the way she was being treated in the x-books. The only thing I read about the breakup in comics was one day when I made my once-in-a-blue moon visit to the comic shop after learning on Comicvine that BP broke up with Storm without any kind of legal proceedings or anything like that. I flipped through said issue to see if it were true. Since you were foolish enough to subject yourself to all of that trash in the x-titles where Storm was being mischaracterized and treated like wallpaper, you deserve all the disappointment you're walking around with. I had the sense to jump off that train before things got this far without keeping up with what was going on. The mistakes that were made with Storm's character I am learning about I do not hold against the character, but the writers.

That said, the premise for this new "Storm" book is very good. There is promise here for Ororo to shine like she hasn't shined in years if not ever. I am going to support this effort by spending my dollars on that book. Also, Storm is a single woman now. If she ends up finding love in the arms of some other man at some point, so be it. Same with T'challa, if he ends up finding love in the arms of another woman, that's fine. He's a single man right now. That said,  I don't think Storm should be with anybody right now after the break up and all. She needs time by herself to get her bearings.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 04, 2014, 08:53:07 pm
The book is going to fail anyway, let's get real. It's a female lead title in the midst of the other Marvel Now titles She-Hulk, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel and Elektra. They all can't be winners, it will probably last a year.

As a reader I want to see Black Panther in the title, but most of all I don't want Pak to forget she's Black.


I think the book can do better than the other female titles put out by Marvel. It has the potential to do very well. Guest-starring T'challa in the title will reduce the book's chances at making it. For the first year of the title, T'challa doesn't need to show up at all. Marvel should do everything it can to make sure the book is a success especially its first twelve issues. That means keeping T'challa far away from the title.

If the book does very well the first year, then I would not mind the Black Panther showing up the next year for an issue or two as a guest-star.

Also, what do you mean he doesn't need to forget she's Black? Elaborate. Classic Storm is just fine the way she is and always should be (I'm ignoring this business about Cyclops and Wolverine recently). She got a lot of fans that way. If by Black, you mean written like she was in the EJD mini, then I wholeheartedly disagree. That Storm will DEFINITELY fail if trying to carry her own title. That was not Storm at all. Keep her speaking patterns formal and keep her regal. I don't want a stereotypical portrayal of Black people with Storm. It's racist, divisive and its not the character that I and others fell in love with. Not all Black people act and talk the same way and that should be reflected in the medium. I think its wonderful and inspiring to see a Black character like Storm speaking as eloquently as she does while having all the regal bearing of a goddess and possessing that fierce, indomitable will and personality backed by her enormous power levels. This is why she is arguably the most popular female comicbook character with her only real rival being Wonder Woman and this needs to remain untouched. She's a character that breaks through the color barriers and one that millions of readers can relate to.


^^^^ you need a hug!

Did anyone check-out The 2014 Presidential White House Correspondents' Dinner?


the “roast” seems quite timely...


"Well, The 2014 Presidential White House Correspondents' Dinner will be headed our way...
Can you believe they’re gonna “roast” the president, his administration & the entire government?
Wanda Sykes, Conan O’brien, Seth Myers, Jimmy Kimmel & many more celebrity comedians have taken part in this foolishness.
No one should have the right to make fun of world leaders (real or fictional). Right?"
~APEXABYSS  (Seth Meyers., my bad)

« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 01:50:38 PM by APEXABYSS »




Marvel Comics, if The President Of The United States can get “roasted"....  the new Storm solo series can get it too!
This is the 100th anniversary of the dinner. I’m glad the White House makes provisions for journalists to have a say & be heard. I know the M-office can handle the same scrutiny with the same level of dignity & etiquette. Remember, there are all types of journalists.

Again, on the subject of Storm & BP I’ve done investigative/journalistic research, character deigns, campaigned for a solo series for both characters, fan-fic comics, in-depth discussions & public/ private appeals for years. I can state my opinion from a qualified position.   

I’m sure BP is ready for a solo series as well. Hello?    

So, on with the roasting.

The Mohawk

Sosa’s got the best White Mohawk (check the Belly movie clip). Since Storm is black now. They should research the various hair-styles of black women. We know how Storm got her hair-do. Thanks Logan!! Every time I see her Mohawk, I think about showering, because it makes me feel dirty.

(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyUnsZhNgapwobviCQhxhtKcrg_luVQ5F4wq6AoDn1bVfurlhqwQ:comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Storm_1_Ibanez_Cover.jpg)

the first issue takes Storm to an idyllic Caribbean community harboring a terrible secret ~Greg Pak


The last thing the Caribbean needs is another Storm. Oh great, a black female X-man bustin’-up bad-guys in The Islands. Wait, yep, that too has been covered.

(https://d1vr6n66ssr06c.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/AC3Liberation.jpg)

back on the Mohawk. Victor is the man, but, c'mon son. keeping the same style is like keeping the same attitude. I call it "The Logan Trim"...trim-lol
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/31205eadb1798325ca60981b045235c5/tumblr_myhd9ezSP51s506dlo1_500.jpg)     (http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/53c60b2eab9411e39f47126b152ee5e0_6.jpg) (http://distilleryimage0.s3.amazonaws.com/ba20c284c77711e3be010002c99239c4_6.jpg)


 (http://24.media.tumblr.com/56b079f3f482398996e3eb71f2f7f5e5/tumblr_n4ajzxViWT1r7hjkqo1_1280.jpg)


They seem only interested in Storm after everyone else has already stolen her thunder (straight-swagger-jacked-)!

Korra can do things I've never seen Storm do.
 
(http://37.media.tumblr.com/afd3022cd9cc4be9cd54d47c0f23093d/tumblr_mwd0apiZ901rnm9t7o1_250.gif)

check-out Korra & her legend
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/7b5c673d422f942d84a5b9f45c1a172f/tumblr_n1jeuxiPOL1tr6t5zo1_1280.jpg)

and let's not forget about "FROZEN"
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/8cefbe26f6bf701d60e7855c1ce2d1cd/tumblr_n4jr6nmtMX1qjq4fzo1_1280.jpg)

Now, Storm is ready? Go back to the drawing board. They have seen the profits of other similar characters, so now she gets her shot. it doesn't seem genuine, jus' money driven.


Racism- silly silly. It's not about race. it's about power & control. Fan-boy corruption.

BP did the same thing Donald Sterling did. Well, kinda. Y’all remember The infamous “Not him…” line. Later, in the same book she gets the Mohawk. Greg & Victor represented Storm with the same "Mohawk"  image. Can we please lose the “Zeus” (Greek God) lighting-bolt earrings? It screams “same ol same” & lack of true character research. I know the earrings are a tradition with Storm but so is the tradition of “Heads of State” remaining married.   

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 04, 2014, 09:23:28 pm
All this goes to show that I'm smarter than you.
The very idea that you think that you are smarter than me over a COMIC BOOK just proves that you are so far beneath me on the intelligence scale that you would have to look up just to be in the range of retard.

Quote
Its not my fault you didn't have the sense to stop keeping up with what was going on in the title while those x-writers were destroying Storm's character AFTER the marriage.

I haven't supported Marvel in years, you illiterate bitch. I've been very vocal in that. And *you're* smarter? You can't even read. The best part is that in admitting that you have no idea how Storm is currently being treated, you admit that you're so f*cking ignorant about this issue that you are going to happily throw your money into this racist bullsh*t and not even know that Marvel relies on ignorant motherf*ckers like you. You're happily supporting people who do not deserve your support, or even your respect. Uncle Ruckus ain't got sh*t on you, Rutog98.

The worst part about it is that you're repeating everything that I've said for YEARS, just in a completely different context. In the wise words of Lil Kim: get your own sh*t. Why you ridin mine?

^^^^ you need a hug!

She needs a better pimp. Only the dumbest of whores would come here to peddle their Marvel wares. Nearly all of us have made it clear that we're not supporting the title, so why is she still on her knees trying to suck dick? Cuz Daddy Marvel said so? f*ck outta here with that bullsh*t. #crankdattrolljaboy
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 04, 2014, 10:19:55 pm
Your claims are ridiculous.

Of course you'd say that

I already said that I've all but dropped comics over the last 2-3 years because of the treatment of Storm. I am just now getting back into them

Yet you have no problem throwing other characters under the bus to prop Storm up and her unreleased comic

Also, I've stated several times that while she was in Hudlin's book, she became mere wallpaper in the X-Men titles during that time.[/quote]

Which is false since she wasn't in the X-Books at the time, the x-office even complained about it saying they couldn't do anything with her since she was in his book( yet folks like Logan, Beast and even Gambit can appear in multiple books without a problem )

I had stopped reading X-Men, actually, during the Matt Fraction run on the book and was pretty much only reading Black Panther.

Then you should know she left at the start of that and didn't come back until Warren Ellis took over Astonishing and was the only writer to make use of the idea that T'Challa would fund the X-Men and help their cause and used her as the mouth piece for that( SHOCKING )

When Claremont's alternate reality X-book, X-Men Forever, came out, I read that title and haven't really read anything since that book's cancellation.

Looks like only Marvel knew the old man didn't have it any more and give him non cannon sandbox to whittle away in angrly

I've already given my opinion on the Storm/Woverine relationship in the other thread. I am writing that off as Storm, in an emotionally vulnerable state, scraping the bottom of the barrel and rebounding hard by being with Wolverine.

Yeah you and the fans over at cbr keep saying this song and dance but the x-office gave you want you wanted and now you all act like that wasn't it

I stated this earlier and I went even further than this. If you are going to make a claim about my position on something, at least try and be honest about it.

No you need to be honest with yourself and stop running from the truth, the quicker you own up to your hating on other fans and characters folks might give you a small ounce of respect

Don't try and muddy what I say just because I don't agree with every gripe you have.

I didn't muddy anything that's you again running from the truth
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 04, 2014, 10:51:45 pm
Your claims are ridiculous.

Of course you'd say that

I already said that I've all but dropped comics over the last 2-3 years because of the treatment of Storm. I am just now getting back into them

Yet you have no problem throwing other characters under the bus to prop Storm up and her unreleased comic

Also, I've stated several times that while she was in Hudlin's book, she became mere wallpaper in the X-Men titles during that time.

Which is false since she wasn't in the X-Books at the time, the x-office even complained about it saying they couldn't do anything with her since she was in his book( yet folks like Logan, Beast and even Gambit can appear in multiple books without a problem )

I had stopped reading X-Men, actually, during the Matt Fraction run on the book and was pretty much only reading Black Panther.

Then you should know she left at the start of that and didn't come back until Warren Ellis took over Astonishing and was the only writer to make use of the idea that T'Challa would fund the X-Men and help their cause and used her as the mouth piece for that( SHOCKING )

When Claremont's alternate reality X-book, X-Men Forever, came out, I read that title and haven't really read anything since that book's cancellation.

Looks like only Marvel knew the old man didn't have it any more and give him non cannon sandbox to whittle away in angrly

I've already given my opinion on the Storm/Woverine relationship in the other thread. I am writing that off as Storm, in an emotionally vulnerable state, scraping the bottom of the barrel and rebounding hard by being with Wolverine.

Yeah you and the fans over at cbr keep saying this song and dance but the x-office gave you want you wanted and now you all act like that wasn't it

I stated this earlier and I went even further than this. If you are going to make a claim about my position on something, at least try and be honest about it.

No you need to be honest with yourself and stop running from the truth, the quicker you own up to your hating on other fans and characters folks might give you a small ounce of respect

Don't try and muddy what I say just because I don't agree with every gripe you have.

I didn't muddy anything that's you again running from the truth
[/quote]

1) Who am I throwing under the bus to prop Storm up? I know you don't mean T'challa. Those two have been broken up now for years. It seems like pots and kettle with you. Storm's character is so colorful and rich that nobody has to be thrown under the bus for her to shine. If you want to know the truth, it was Storm's character that was thrown under the bus to prop up T'challa. The two characters were rushed into marriage in an unnatural and unrealistic way with Storm's character taking all the hits. This is what alienated the Storm fans early on. All I'm saying is let Storm shine like the star that she is. Marvel can try all they want to make Ms. Marvel (Carol Danvers) their first lady and their answer to DC's Wonder Woman, but Marvel's biggest female character is actually Storm whether some of those editors like it or not.

2) Storm was on the cast of some of the X-titles while she was in Black Panther. Get your facts straight. when Warren Ellis took Storm on, she was still married to Panther just like she was still married to Panther when Fraction was writing the book and Storm would show up there. There was a huge uprising among the Storm fans against Fraction for his writing of the character over on the CBR forums WHILE Storm was still in BP. One poster over there even said it should be a national holiday when Fraction leaves the book for the poor way he treated Storm. This was stated during the last 6 issues of Hudlin's run on the BP title. I remember because I quoted that poster over here at that time.

3) In regards to what you said about CC, you're entitled to your opinion. The point I was making is I did not support the x-books.

4) What do you mean "me and the fans over a cbr, etc, etc, etc"? I NEVER advocated for a Storm/Logan relationship. To be frank with you, Storm and Wolverine have been close friends for years. If they actually started dating, it would not be something that would come out of left field. They do have that kind of chemistry.  That said, I have been against the idea since FOREVER because Wolverine's heart will always long for Jean Grey. Storm does not need to be a man's second choice, but his first. This is one thing Panther had going for him (with this fan) over Wolverine. He preferred Storm OVER all other women. That said, I think the two characters were rushed into marriage in a way that did not feel very natural or realistic. So, once again, you make stuff up. As a matter of fact, just recently on the CBR board before the reboot, I posted there against the idea of a Storm/Wolverine relationship though you have plenty of Rolo'ers there who clamor for it. Just to show you don't know what you're talking about, I've barely posted on the CBR boards in years. I'm just getting back to it. Every now and then, when I used to post out of the blue, some of my friends and fellow Storm fans would welcome me back and ask me to stay. The x-titles were so bad that I had no reason to keep abreast with the board. Now, I do.

5) Stop making stuff up.

@Maxine

If you're so easily offended, then you should not have thrown a punch at me first. I did not insult you or come at you in any way at all. If you disagree with my position, you could have and should have responded to it in a civil manner. There's no point in trying to discuss anything with you. You get too emotional and you become irrational. I hold nothing against you. I am not your enemy. Take care.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 04, 2014, 11:20:08 pm
If you're so easily offended, then you should not have thrown a punch at me first.

The f*ck are you talking about? Since when is "nah, I'll pass" a punch?

Quote
If you disagree with my position, you could have and should have responded to it in a civil manner.

You're taking it up the ass for Marvel and getting nothing in return but pubic burn on your chin. I'm merely pointing that out. Don't like it, stop doing it.

Quote
There's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.

Nobody cares about what you're prattling about, and as long as you keep prattling, you're going to keep getting cock slapped. And you're right. You and I have nothing to discuss - for any reason - as long as you're here at HEF. I don't converse with corporate whores.

*adds Rutog98 to the (n)ignore list*
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 04, 2014, 11:42:31 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/Gifs/tumblr_lv4pmk2kCY1r1ltgj_zps761716cd.gif)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 05, 2014, 05:03:27 am
Maxine Shaw and Genki Sudo have more or less covered it as regards this assclown coming onto the HEF to peddle his particular brand of condescending BS.

It's pretty much obvious that some love to choose the Uncle Tom/Aunt Jemima route to travel on in favour of scraps from massa's table so a lot of the rubbish Rotgut69 has posted here hasn't really come as a suprise to me.

Anybody with even the most rudimentary of reasoning capacity would have recognized that post AvX, the X-office had done nothing of worth with Ororo other than turn her into a fool with no other mandate than to cheapen herself on Wolverine's cock.

This in their eyes, was vastly preferable to her actually being a Queen in her own right with all of the political clout and influence that came with that station.

The X-Office felt it would be better for Storm to go back to the dysfuntional X-Universe with their Schism's and faux revolution rather than have her be an evolved character in much the same way as is the case for Queen Medusa of the Inhuman's who in the absence of Black Bolt, is doing all possible to safeguard her people and bring order to the chaos that the Terrigen explosion has caused.

Ororo on the other hand, spends time pondering whether she should get permission from massa to form her own group and some of her fans dance for joy on the plantation even as the noonday sun of their stupidity fries their brains into a state of imbecility. :smh:
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 05, 2014, 06:15:46 am
Wait... wait...  wait...   :)

Watch this character rutog98 throw up another 'wall of text'  in response !

Watch!   ;)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 05, 2014, 06:23:30 am
Wait... wait...  wait...   :)

Watch this character rutog98 throw up another 'wall of text'  in response !

Watch!   ;)

What really pisses me off with idiots like this is that they have the audacity to talk as if Storm fans are all one large monolithic group.

I grew up reading the original X-book that she featured in back in the 1970's and followed her adventures for years before the internet even existed ,so for this clown to come on here and start pontificating about the virtues of a Storm who's been thoroughly devalued in the X-universe is nothing more than a truly pathetic joke.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 05, 2014, 06:49:05 am
What really pisses me off with idiots like this is that they have the audacity to talk as if Storm fans are all one large monolithic group.

I grew up reading the original X-book that she featured in back in the 1970's and followed her adventures for years before the internet even existed ,so for this clown to come on here and start pontificating about the virtues of a Storm who's been thoroughly devalued in the X-universe is nothing more than a truly pathetic joke.



You cannot allow yourself to get emotionally involved with characters like that.  The only exception is when you're laughing at them.

Remember what I wrote about comicbook fanatics?  How irritating they are?  They are the only people like this on planet Earth.
Them and video game fanatics....   
...and Star Trek fanatics...

... and Star Wars fanatics...

Most people classify them as 'nerds' but that's getting old. (http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/character0303.gif) Hell, a lot of pop culture phenoms I enjoy are nerdy but not like these types.  Fanboys is what they are.  Real creepy types.  :-[
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 05, 2014, 09:01:25 am
What really pisses me off with idiots like this is that they have the audacity to talk as if Storm fans are all one large monolithic group.

I grew up reading the original X-book that she featured in back in the 1970's and followed her adventures for years before the internet even existed ,so for this clown to come on here and start pontificating about the virtues of a Storm who's been thoroughly devalued in the X-universe is nothing more than a truly pathetic joke.


Agreed 100%.  8)


You cannot allow yourself to get emotionally involved with characters like that.  The only exception is when you're laughing at them.

Remember what I wrote about comicbook fanatics?  How irritating they are?  They are the only people like this on planet Earth.
Them and video game fanatics....   
...and Star Trek fanatics...

... and Star Wars fanatics...

Most people classify them as 'nerds' but that's getting old. ([url]http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a384/themarbleintheoatmeal/smilies/character0303.gif[/url]) Hell, a lot of pop culture phenoms I enjoy are nerdy but not like these types.  Fanboys is what they are.  Real creepy types.  :-[
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Vic Vega on May 05, 2014, 09:10:34 am
The one thing we know for a fact is that the average X-fan cares little about the rest of the Marvel universe.

AvX, as an exercise in forcing those characters to confront the rest of the MU was designed to piss them off.
That was half the point of it.

So all the calls for Storm to engage the larger Marvel Universe were bound to go deaf ears the moment Reg left.

Just because the Xoffice was never going to let Storm supplant Cyclops as head mutant, never meant that they
were gonna let things lie with the character either.

Half my reason for championing Shuri in the first place was because it was inevitable that the Xoffice was going to snach Storm back at some point. Hell, both Clairmont and the 90's Xtoons both shipped Storm/Logan as a couple in the (alt) future.

We can't even say that our fanbase generates more money for Marvel than the Xoffice either. There was the potential for
that, true but that was mostly with outsiders to comics fandom (which is were the book's big appeal was).

But its harder to get new fans engaged in the first place than it is to hook the
folks that already come to the LCS every week.

They went with where the thought the money was.

All of this was kind of apparent at the time too.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 05, 2014, 10:41:09 am
I think there was potential for a huge success with the Ororo/T'challa marriage. Truth be told, many of the Storm fans who raged against the marriage had expressed interest in a possible relationship between the two characters long before it came to fruition. This happened on some of those threads where fans discussed "Who should Storm date"? As I've stated a million times, I will always maintain that the seeds were sown for the downfall of the marriage at the very beginning of the project where Storm's character took all the hits seemingly to prop up T'challa. While many Storm fans did not like the whole rushed feel of it, they were willing to give it a chance. Too many mistakes were made with her characterization early on, so they booked off early in the project for reasons I have explained at great lengths. There was a window of opportunity to recapture that potential readership when Maberry came on board, hence sales of the title spiked up his first issue. Problem is, the book could not hold those extra readers because the title made Shuri the central character who doesn't have a fan base at all. It was a total misfire. Shortly afterwards, the book was cancelled.

The marriage became wildly unpopular among readers and stayed that way for an extended period of time despite their efforts to try and save the book. That is why they brought on Maberry, they thought maybe a different writer's angle could draw in new readership. It did not work, and that is why Marvel killed it. Simple. While a small faction of those objections from readers did come from a dark, racist place, most of it was not racism, to be honest. Storm has a huge potential for success. She could, if handled well, stand toe-to-toe with the likes of Spiderman, Captain America, Iron Man, Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman as being a flagship character. In many ways, she is a flagship character for Marvel, but one that they have not used properly. She is known and recognized the world over. Her marriage to Black Panther became a stone around her neck. It held her back because of its lack of support and was very unpopular with fans. I think the marriage had a lot of potential to really make her character soar while at the same time elevating BP up to the level of recognition to rival that of Captain America and Iron Man, but too many mistakes were made too early in the project that alienated too many fans. While the book did improve with its characterization of Storm, it came too late as it had already lost the readership.

One more thing, Storm not being with Black Panther and getting it on with Wolverine has nothing to do with Marvel wanting her to be with "anyone but Black". That sounds like disgruntled people sour over the way the marriage turned out. I had no idea about Storm/Cyclops until I saw that cover on this board posted a few days ago by Genki. That pairing made no sense whatsoever. Those two characters never had that kind of chemistry by any stretch of the imagination. Sounds like the writers just didn't know what to do with the character and were making really bad decisions. That said, as I've stated earlier, a Storm/Wolverine pairing does make sense. They have been close for decades and there was always a potential for an intimate relationship there that I hoped would never be realized simply because, as I've stated, I don't want Storm to be a man's number 2 pick. In a pairing of these two, she will always be Wolverine's second choice to Jean Grey.

Regarding Storm/BP post marriage. I have read on this board that Storm has made some comments about BP after they separated that were less than...flattery (to put it lightly). While I don't know exactly what she said, I do know it would be a normal reaction for somebody to cut down the person whom they just got out of a marriage with especially with the way BP annulled their marriage. That said, the reason Storm is sporting that ugly mohawk is because she is hurting emotionally from the break up of the marriage. I read that in an interview a couple of months ago. That's partially why I am able to write off Storm/Wolverine as a bad rebound thing.

Trying to put Storm and BP back together right now will only hold Storm back with the readership. There isn't much of a demand for that at all and the overwhelming majority of the people who would support her book would be totally against the idea. While I think it would be wonderful for the two characters to have a strong friendship, its something that should be explored later. To give Storm's title all the advantages it can have to be successful, I think BP (and Cyclops) should stay away from her book for the first year/12 issues.  (And, no, this last comment was not a pitch to get anyone to try and buy her title, but just speaking honestly what would be in the best interest of the character for her to have a change at getting all the success she can potentially have.)

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 05, 2014, 10:59:17 am
One last thing...

While Storm has been in a slump for years over at Marvel, it looks like things are finally looking up for her. Not only is she getting her own solo title, but the new X-title that's come out, "Amazing X-Men" has a very small cast of X-Men when Storm being one of them. Yost is about to take over the writing duties of that book. Its something to get excited about. She's also being primed to take over Wolverine's central role in the title "Wolverine and the X-Men". That writer recently did an interview talking about exploring Storm's powers stating that she only uses a small fraction of what she can really do...or something to that effect. It was only a matter of time before she would be put back front and center in the X-titles again. She's too big a character to be sidelined for too long. It was only a matter of time before a writer who really likes the character came along and got control of one of the books she's featured in.

I'm stoked about this as should any Storm fan be.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BlackRodimus on May 05, 2014, 12:20:06 pm
Wait... wait...  wait...   :)

Watch this character rutog98 throw up another 'wall of text'  in response !

Watch!   ;)

You, sir, are correct.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 05, 2014, 12:46:41 pm
Wait... wait...  wait...   :)

Watch this character rutog98 throw up another 'wall of text'  in response !

Watch!   ;)

You, sir, are correct.

Yeah, so? What do I care? I am not here to appease that guy. I speak my mind and call things as I see 'em. Many of the people who are reading this thread do agree with me, though, they may not voice it much. Even some of my opposition agree with me on at least some of my points.

With that, I've said my peace. I think everything that's needed to have been said on the matter has been stated. What A. Curry said to me a couple of pages ago was completely right. I'm a Storm fan and I like the plans they have laid out for her starting in the immediate future. I think there is plenty of support out there for the character as well. The Storm fans on the internet are more excited about what's going on with the character than I have ever seen. Hopefully, this is only a microcosm of the buzz going on outside the internet among her fans. I stand very hopeful that things will go well and that I will enjoy reading Storm-centric stories like I have not in a long, long time...if ever.  My hope in coming here with the news was to share that joy with a board I had grown to like during the BP comic days thinking people here would share in those feelings with me. Instead, I found a lot of hate for the character. I tried to alleviate those harsh feelings with a dose of reality coupled with honest logic/reasoning and reflection on what the real factors were that brought the Storm/T'challa situation to where it is today. She's suffered from bad writing for a while now, but her character is finally being pulled out of that slump. This is all very encouraging.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BlackRodimus on May 05, 2014, 01:49:49 pm
I love how people who don't care, care enough to tell you they don't care.  :o
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 05, 2014, 01:55:55 pm
If you're so easily offended, then you should not have thrown a punch at me first.


The f*ck are you talking about? Since when is "nah, I'll pass" a punch?

Quote
If you disagree with my position, you could have and should have responded to it in a civil manner.


You're taking it up the ass for Marvel and getting nothing in return but pubic burn on your chin. I'm merely pointing that out. Don't like it, stop doing it.

Quote
There's no point in trying to discuss anything with you.


Nobody cares about what you're prattling about, and as long as you keep prattling, you're going to keep getting cock slapped. And you're right. You and I have nothing to discuss - for any reason - as long as you're here at HEF. I don't converse with corporate whores.

*adds Rutog98 to the (n)ignore list*


(http://31.media.tumblr.com/60724c24201ee8f93768fb0279b3ddc7/tumblr_mzxfxqq4sf1sdqajoo1_400.gif)

that was fun to read...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 05, 2014, 02:00:53 pm
okay, on a serious note...

in regards to the new storm series...
the email I received today stated- I needed an attorney for any conceptual ideas. no I don't. they make you sign an (all rights reserved) agreement just in case of plagiarism. I already signed it. next


I’ve petitioned & requested the themes & concepts be debated. yes, it's a challenge. 

I don’t care what writer they bring in. they need to do a comparative study.

I said it was a thousand times better. I meant it.

There is only one solution.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 05, 2014, 05:27:54 pm
I love how people who don't care, care enough to tell you they don't care.  :o


If they hadn't been insulted first maybe some would care
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 05, 2014, 06:28:33 pm
I love how people who don't care, care enough to tell you they don't care.  :o


If they hadn't been insulted first maybe some would care

I was insulted first when I did nothing but being friendly and showing enthusiasm for some great Storm news. I'm not going to jump on the Storm-hating bandwagon, uh-uh, no way.  I'm not going to show respect if I don't get it in return. Fact is, I'm still going to be able to read a "Storm" ongoing while reading another X-title featuring Storm on the roster authored by Yost, AND am still looking forward to the possibility of Storm's powers being explored in Wolverine and the X-Men as she likely moves to the central role in that book once Wolverine kicks the bucket. While I was hoping people on here would show some positive enthusiasm for these developments broadly, they did not. Oh, well. Not going to stop my enjoyment of these titles and I think I've made enough noise about the whole ordeal that people will at least flip through the book in the store if not buy at least the first or first couple of issues. If people here never buy a single issue, cool. If they buy the book, even better. No matter, I'm going to enjoy the stories regardless.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 05, 2014, 07:50:07 pm
Watch this character rutog98 throw up another 'wall of text'  in response !

All this idiot wants is attention. She's not in this to make any points, but for distance and irritation. Let this thread sink to the bottom of the forum where it belongs.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 05, 2014, 11:53:49 pm
still up wrapping gifts... how do you wrap a skateboard?

devil's advocate... i joined this forum to learn more about storm & BP. i was gonna publish an unauthorized version of ororo & t'challa. instead, i decided to become a student of the characters/ storyline & history. my focus is not so-much on the past... only the future of the beloved black superheroes. the wakandan legacy is truly legitimate. that's why it means so much to all of us.
 
anyway, i say all this to say, i plan to remain in a student position & learn. my grievances & fan-insight stretch beyond blogs or forums. i have taken my artistic creativity to convey my own message about our heroes. my artwork of storm & BP is just an extension of my position & opinion. the art is no different than any written post made on this site. in fact, it's exactly the same thing, only in a different format.

before i dive deep into written declarations about the characters, i need to be clear that my thought process has been intentionally developed to think 'outside' the box. making an unauthorized story was my way of blogging. for now, i've haulted on the project to study. i'd rather pay respects for what already has been done before i blindly move forward. i'm not here to sell or promote anything... only to network, be advised & promote alternative ideas for the legacy.

still a newbie... 

([url]http://th03.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/052/7/0/afrocentric_storm__4__feat__balck_panther_by_apexabyss-d4qjdei.jpg[/url])

([url]http://th01.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2012/052/e/b/afrocentric_storm__3_feat__black_panther_by_apexabyss-d4qj9uw.jpg[/url])



OMG YOU ARE DOPE, SON!!


December 24, 2012,

see, same mission, same attitude!


I’m sure BP is ready for a solo series as well.

Okay, so I did speak with my attorney. Legally, they don’t have to accept any “open-debate”.  Uh, yeh, tell me something I didn’t know. However, he did say, I’d be better-off petitioning for an “open competition“, since companies host special promotional events & “public competitions,” all the time. Enough with the petitioning. Enough with the debating. No, wait, the debate is still on. It’s just an all-out competition, now! Anybody, I said , anybody with a great Storm/BP concept. Bring it.


Greg & Victor, geez, I dig you guys so much. Of course, I want to see them win. For Storm. But from what little I’ve seen & read so far. same ol same. Slight improvements instead of real change. What I am talking about is a total change & a complete reboot.

That’s not hatin! It’s chastising a fan-boy agenda. “Logan Trim”
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 08:17:26 am
Here are some awesome quotes from Pak in the CBR interview:

"She's the most powerful woman in the Marvel Universe -- incredibly exciting and elemental -- even dangerous."

"Storm's one of the most important of all the X-Men -- ostensibly the most powerful..."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52542 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=52542)


No writer has said it like this about Storm point blank!  I can't wait to read Pak's book. We are going to see some great character moments in the title as well as her wielding ENORMOUS power levels. I just get more and more excited the more I read and learn about the upcoming title. For those of you on this board who are looking forward to the book, I think we have a treat coming our way. In some ways, Pak may be an even better pick than Claremont for the book. I'll have to read the series to know for sure.  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 06, 2014, 08:43:55 am
Honestly I wouldn't have picked Clarmont period l'm also not a fan of OVERPOWERED heroes (one reason I don't love Superman comics). So we'll see. I'm moderately optimistic.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 08:46:46 am
Honestly I wouldn't have picked Clarmont period l'm also not a fan of OVERPOWERED heroes (one reason I don't love Superman comics). So we'll see. I'm moderately optimistic.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Storm being written that powerfully at all. Just make sure the villains are powerful enough to pose a realistic threat to her. Would you agree with that?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 06, 2014, 09:59:47 am
I want her power to be epic...but I want some nuance as well. We'll see he's saying all the right things thus far.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 06, 2014, 10:19:04 am
Honestly I wouldn't have picked Clarmont period l'm also not a fan of OVERPOWERED heroes (one reason I don't love Superman comics). So we'll see. I'm moderately optimistic.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Storm being written that powerfully at all. Just make sure the villains are powerful enough to pose a realistic threat to her. Would you agree with that?

You think she is powerful enough to beat Doomsday,  more powerful than Magneto,  TPG should view her as an equal,  and so on.   You think she is more powerful than anyone and if he writes anyone as being a challenge or superior,  you are going to write a five page article explaining why the writer is wrong and Storm should have taken down the villain effortlessly.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 06, 2014, 10:23:44 am
You think she is powerful enough to beat Doomsday,  more powerful than Magneto,  TPG should view her as an equal,  and so on.   You think she is more powerful than anyone and if he writes anyone as being a challenge or superior,  you are going to write a five page article explaining why the writer is wrong and Storm should have taken down the villain effortlessly.


Don't encourage this madness
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 11:40:17 am
Honestly I wouldn't have picked Clarmont period l'm also not a fan of OVERPOWERED heroes (one reason I don't love Superman comics). So we'll see. I'm moderately optimistic.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Storm being written that powerfully at all. Just make sure the villains are powerful enough to pose a realistic threat to her. Would you agree with that?



You think she is powerful enough to beat Doomsday,  more powerful than Magneto,  TPG should view her as an equal,  and so on.   You think she is more powerful than anyone and if he writes anyone as being a challenge or superior,  you are going to write a five page article explaining why the writer is wrong and Storm should have taken down the villain effortlessly.

I don't ever recall doing a Storm vs. Doomsday debate. LOL! I don't read DC. Storm is definitely more powerful than Magneto. He needs a machine to boost his power just to turn off the lights around the world. In "Magneto War", Magneto created a machine to boost his powers to do just this feat. When the machine was destroyed and he was forced to control all of that energy on his own, he nearly lost his life and was lucky to walk away from the incident with just his mutant powers being permanently burned out from the ordeal. If you try and bring up "Fatal Attractions" where Magneto caused a world wide blackout before this instance in "Magneto War", the only reason he was able to do that there was because Forge's machine was used to skewer the EM field to such a degree that if Magneto had come within the Earth's atmosphere and attempted to use his powers, the fields would have fedback on him instantly killing him. He blasted the skewered geomagnetic field from space while it was warped to this extreme which resulted in the global EMP. Canon has shown that he doesn't have this kind of power under the merits of his own power. He needs technology to do feats that are far below what Storm can do naturally without anything hiking up her powers. Magneto lost credibility years ago. Its become common practice at Marvel that whenever a character more powerful than he faces him in combat, said character's powers levels are adjusted downward to make him a big bad. There are examples of this with other characters besides Storm.

That said, the average hurricane is about 500 miles across and they generate enough power to power supply the entire planet. Storm has controlled hemisphere-sized hurricanes before and continent-sized blizzards.So, she has controlled more energy than it would take to power supply the world exponentially. On another occassion, she created a gamma-powered weather shield around the whole Earth to deflect a planet-destroying blast from the sun. She redirected the full power of Sienna Blaze who's powers were strong enough to split the planet like a ripe melon. All of this, and I still haven't said it all. So, yeah, Storm is MUCH more powerful than Magneto. I don't know why you would bring that up against me when you know I can debunk it. Even Magneto himself has stated that Storm has the power to beat him, but she holds back.

Regarding TPG, what I said was Storm and TPG were Wakanda's two most powerful protectors back when she and T'challa were married.

That said, Storm should be VERY powerful and pitted against villains strong enough to challenge that power. A hero is only overpowered when the opposition is too weak to challenge them. Well, it depends on how you look at it. I don't see Storm as being overpowered as much as I see her being pitted against characters that have no business challenging her. The MU has villains of varying power levels ranging from characters to fight with the likes of Spiderman and Luke Cage all the way up to sparring partners for the likes of Silver Surfer, Thor...and even Galactus, etc. There is definitely a place for a hero as powerful as Storm.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 11:50:22 am
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url] ([url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url])

This is exciting! :)



RUUUUUTOOOOOG WHASSUP BRUH!!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 11:52:49 am
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url] ([url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url])

This is exciting! :)



RUUUUUTOOOOOG WHASSUP BRUH!!


Hey, long time, no see. Been out of comics for a few years and just getting back into them. This board is a different place from when I left it for a while. The mood around here is more solemn now. It used to be bright and happy. I am hopeful that the mood will pick back up to where it used to be, though. :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 11:56:07 am
Hopefully Storm will get her just due. I was a fan of the marriage and still think the annulment was a bad idea. The Wolverine-Storm romance didn't do anything for me. I liked Pak's work on World War Hulk and War Machine so I'm guardedly optimistic that he can deliver a Storm series worthy of the character.

Pak absolutely tore it down on War Machine. He did a pretty good job on WWH too, although I didn't like how Hulk never really intended to "never stop making them pay". But man...he KILLED it on War Machine.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 11:58:54 am
Right now is not a good time to restore the marriage. She is just getting her own solo title. She needs some time alone to establish herself before she gets into any relationships. We need to see Storm as Storm. Let her have her moment in the spotlight for a while. I've only bought about 7 comics in the last 2 years or so because Storm was just wallpaper. Now that she finally has the opportunity to shine in a big way, I don't want her to share the spotlight with anyone right now.

big giant humongous cosign. big. Giant. Humongous. Cosign. I had to type it twice.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 12:05:22 pm
This sounds like how I envision her...

didn't we write whimsically about this very thing back when RH had STORM breaking up the Sudanese slave trade, ending droughts, and lots of other common sense very powerful cool stuff? And again when STORM dropped CLOR?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BlackRodimus on May 06, 2014, 12:17:49 pm
Honestly I wouldn't have picked Clarmont period l'm also not a fan of OVERPOWERED heroes (one reason I don't love Superman comics). So we'll see. I'm moderately optimistic.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Storm being written that powerfully at all. Just make sure the villains are powerful enough to pose a realistic threat to her. Would you agree with that?

You think she is powerful enough to beat Doomsday,  more powerful than Magneto,  TPG should view her as an equal,  and so on.   You think she is more powerful than anyone and if he writes anyone as being a challenge or superior,  you are going to write a five page article explaining why the writer is wrong and Storm should have taken down the villain effortlessly.

Storm, no. Rogue Storm, however...isn't she supposed to be equivalent to freakin' Dark Phoenix? However that doesn't seem the be the Storm that Pak is writing about.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 12:18:34 pm
::)  I wish this series well, and since Pak is a “name” player, I guess it will get more than perfunctory support, at least for now.  But I don’t respect how the marriage was dissolved, and I have zero interest in seeing Ororo paired romantically with various folks that fall into the “anybody but a black man at all costs.. Doop is single, right?” category. In full disclosure I’ve been on a comics-buying hiatus for the past 2 years, and so I wouldn’t be buying this in general.  >:( >:(

The fact is that STORM never had a serious solo before. And the fact is that most of STORM's base DO NOT see her as BLACK but more as A MUTANT...and frankly want to keep her AWAY from Black men in particular.

So. Straight up. Rignt now? STORM needs to be just STORM. She literally doesn't need any man. I don't like the idea that comic nerdds like us tend otsee a strong beautiful woman and wonder who her man is going to be...but nobody really wonders who Hawkeye's or Captain America's girl is going to be. Storm isn't defined by any man or any romantic relationship [ bisexual or not ]. STORM needs to be STORM for a couple years. No relationship yet. And embrace her racial mutant and superhuman roles, like RH started having her to do...but in a way that is more acceptable to her X-FAN base, so her book can be a commercial success sans the negative press. That way, the [ far too many racist ] X-Fans who oppose any idea of her being with a non-X-Guy for any reason and most especially ANY Black man for any reason can be coaxed into another direction [ keeping the book a financial success, which isthe number one thing that keeps her series afloat, and we need her series to float ] or they can go to hell.

Now. Didn't we all predict this awhile ago, when we predicted that they'd kill the marriage once RH left? Yes, we did.

What is the REAL way to ensure that Storm and TChalla hook back up?

Not all of our real time, real logic, real sense reasons why the marriage should have happened a long time ago and should have been a success and kept up forever. Not the absolute rock hard fact that TChalla and Storm should be the Black Sue and Reed Richards. And they should. Haters can kiss where the sun don't shine, in honest to goodness, best of all worlds, wish Marvel wasn't racist logic and thinking.

So what's the real way to guarantee that Marvel would pair these two and NOT break them up for a long long time?

TCHALLA HAS TO HAVE A SUCCESSFUL SOLO SERIES AND A SUCCESSFUL MOVIE FRANCHISE. STORM'S SOLO SERIES HAS TO ROCK AND IT HAS TO EMBRACE HER BLACKNESS AND HER AFRICAN HERITAGE TOO. Which Pak can do. Very well. Money talks [ not the Chris Tucker movie, although that joint was funny ]. With enough money? Racism can be sent packing. Ask the former Clippers owner.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 12:47:32 pm
[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url] ([url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/2014/04/27/greg-pak-storm-comic-book-excluisve/8253687/[/url])

This is exciting! :)



RUUUUUTOOOOOG WHASSUP BRUH!!


Hey, long time, no see. Been out of comics for a few years and just getting back into them. This board is a different place from when I left it for a while. The mood around here is more solemn now. It used to be bright and happy. I am hopeful that the mood will pick back up to where it used to be, though. :)

]
the mood HAS been more solemn around here. There's more to be solemn about...because we have been given reason to be solemn, and we have become more jaded. Less willing to hope for good stuff. Hickman was killin it at first, but he certainly missed very large opportunities to elevate TChalla in his otherwise dazzling Aveengers and New Avengers work. Now TChalla is basically gong to take a back seat [ at least for a while ] in New Avengers, and we have some good reason to expect that TChalla's role in ORIGINAL SIN is more flash than substance and sort of a way to okey doke us out of realizing and getting incensed with his diminishing role in New Avengers.

If TChalla gets introduced in THE AVENGERS movies as the genuine honest to goodness supergenius super spiritual superbadass nonsuperhuman who all at once is richer than Starks, equivalent in intelligence to Reed Richards, super tech'd out, has unique spiritual and mystical ability, [ which can be done simply by having Nick Fury Jr. SAYING these things as part of his Mission Brief about Wakanda and The Mysterious Black Panther ] TChalla out techs SHIELD and easily brings down the Helicarrier because they repossessed Vibranium from a ttrace amount that Dr. Erskine had hidden from everyone but which fell into the hands of bad guys [ OMEGA RED et al, for example ] whom THE AVENGERS are sent to smash [ prelim to AVENGERS VS XMEN ]. The Avengers show up to stomp the baddies only to find that while they're stomping bad guys, TChalla is snagging the Vibranium. That starts the whole TCHALLA VS AVENGERS thing that we saw in the cartoon series, and TChalla handles everyone, outsmarts Thor, uses his agility to fight outmanuever Hulk, uses his tech to hurt Hulk [ not badly, he just gives him a good thump like Hulk did to Thor ] and then uses his tech to revert Hulk back to Bruce Banner with his tech, clashes with Cap for a good but brief h2h fight that is longer than Cap's fight with Batroc, then escapes after he trounces Widow and Hawkeye.

The Falcon and TChalla should have at least two significant scenes. The first is that they fight each other. Sam, Widow and Hawkeye should triple team TChalla in a very stylish fight taking best advantage of which each can do, and TChalla should beat all three. TChalla Nick and Sam should all say something together...even if briefly...about being Black superheroes and Falcon should tell TChalla that he and Luke Cage have always looked up to The Black Panthers in many ways...even when they didn't always trust Wakanda or The Black Panthers. Cap should say to Nick:"Who's Luke Cage?" And Nick should say something like:"We'll talk Luke and Danny at some other time."


 TChalla should have another extended h2h throwdown with Captain America [ later in the movie, as The Avengers seek to infiltrate Wakanda to get back Teh Vibranium and learn more about the Black Panther ] that never reaches a conclusion [ for some reason that both the moviegoing audience and we comic geeks can accept; probably because TChalla has respect for Cap because Cap knew and was friends with TChaka; and that respect is guardedly returned by Cap for the same reason plus the fact that Cap says onscreen that he's not sure if he can take TChalla ]. The Avengers should never get the vibranium back. Somebody like Thor should say that Captain America and TChalla are both among the finest warriors he has ever known.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 01:07:50 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

All of this. If they're not going to be lovers, why couldn't they have at least stayed friends?

And LOLing at rabid Storm fans coming to this place thinking that HEF would give even 1/64ths of a single f*ck about anything Storm-related. Not because of the dissolving of the marriage, but because of everything after. You couldn't pay me to read this sh*t. Anybody supporting this crap has even LESS pride than Black Panther fans who are still throwing money at Marvel.

I'm proud to say that Marvel has not gotten a dime of my money in years, and they sure as hell won't be getting it now. I'll read Klaws of the Panther before I ever read a Storm mini.

Still love you.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 01:11:47 pm
@Supreme Illuminati,

To be frank, I don't want to see T'challa show up first in an Avengers movie. I think he needs a solo movie first. To level with you, the whole idea of Wakanda is wild, exotic and primal based on its local and everything. I think it would appeal to the larger movie-going audience as its fascinating. It would be awesomely impressive to see T'challa traversing the Astral Plane and talking to the Panther God while on that place as TPG endows him with power. There should be a whole movie devoted to BP to define for everyone who he is and what Wakanda is all about as we get wonderful visuals of that mythical country. They can make Wakanda as splendiferous as they please.  Picture this massively advanced technological wonder of a nation out there centered in the wild jungles of Africa otherwise untouched and tell me that doesn't sound like a wonderful sight. The special effects in a movie like this can be breathtaking.

After an introduction like this, then plop him onto the cast of an Avengers movie, otherwise we will not be able to get all the dimensions of the character.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 01:14:13 pm
Or, Marvel could just write Storm and Black Panther like professionals instead of acting like racist cock-blocking nincompoops when it comes to showing a regal black man and a regal black woman in love with each other.

All of this. If they're not going to be lovers, why couldn't they have at least stayed friends?

And LOLing at rabid Storm fans coming to this place thinking that HEF would give even 1/64ths of a single f*ck about anything Storm-related. Not because of the dissolving of the marriage, but because of everything after. You couldn't pay me to read this sh*t. Anybody supporting this crap has even LESS pride than Black Panther fans who are still throwing money at Marvel.

I'm proud to say that Marvel has not gotten a dime of my money in years, and they sure as hell won't be getting it now. I'll read Klaws of the Panther before I ever read a Storm mini.

Still love you.

LOL! How classy. ;) Its probably the way I should have responded to her when she came at me for supporting the Storm title rather than the way I did. I don't hate her. She's just angry and disappointed.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 06, 2014, 01:28:20 pm
@Supreme Illuminati,

To be frank, I don't want to see T'challa show up first in an Avengers movie. I think he needs a solo movie first. To level with you, the whole idea of Wakanda is wild, exotic and primal based on its local and everything. I think it would appeal to the larger movie-going audience as its fascinating. It would be awesomely impressive to see T'challa traversing the Astral Plane and talking to the Panther God while on that place as TPG endows him with power. There should be a whole movie devoted to BP to define for everyone who he is and what Wakanda is all about as we get wonderful visuals of that mythical country. They can make Wakanda as splendiferous as they please.  Picture this massively advanced technological wonder of a nation out there centered in the wild jungles of Africa otherwise untouched and tell me that doesn't sound like a wonderful sight. The special effects in a movie like this can be breathtaking.

After an introduction like this, then plop him onto the cast of an Avengers movie, otherwise we will not be able to get all the dimensions of the character.

That approach could work. If Marvel puts a lot of money in advertising for the movie. If. Do I trust Marvel to do that out of the goodness of their hearts? Hell no, honestly.

However. Do I trust Joss Whedon? Yes. Do I know that the chances of TChalla having a solo SERIES of movies THAT ARE MORE SUCCESSFUL THAN BLADE'S ARE will be MUCH higher if TChalla has a strong intro within THE AVENGERS series as a serious badass...AND THEN gets the treatment you spoke of in your post during his own solo movie? ABSOLUTELY.

Do I think Joss and Marvel will do any such thing with TChalla in THE AVENGERS?

No.

There ya go.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 06, 2014, 04:18:10 pm
Quote from: Rutog98

I don't ever recall doing a Storm vs. Doomsday debate. LOL! I don't read DC. Storm is definitely more powerful than Magneto. He needs a machine to boost his power just to turn off the lights around the world. In "Magneto War", Magneto created a machine to boost his powers to do just this feat. When the machine was destroyed and he was forced to control all of that energy on his own, he nearly lost his life and was lucky to walk away from the incident with just his mutant powers being permanently burned out from the ordeal. If you try and bring up "Fatal Attractions" where Magneto caused a world wide blackout before this instance in "Magneto War", the only reason he was able to do that there was because Forge's machine was used to skewer the EM field to such a degree that if Magneto had come within the Earth's atmosphere and attempted to use his powers, the fields would have fedback on him instantly killing him. He blasted the skewered geomagnetic field from space while it was warped to this extreme which resulted in the global EMP. Canon has shown that he doesn't have this kind of power under the merits of his own power. He needs technology to do feats that are far below what Storm can do naturally without anything hiking up her powers. Magneto lost credibility years ago. Its become common practice at Marvel that whenever a character more powerful than he faces him in combat, said character's powers levels are adjusted downward to make him a big bad. There are examples of this with other characters besides Storm.

That said, the average hurricane is about 500 miles across and they generate enough power to power supply the entire planet. Storm has controlled hemisphere-sized hurricanes before and continent-sized blizzards.So, she has controlled more energy than it would take to power supply the world exponentially. On another occassion, she created a gamma-powered weather shield around the whole Earth to deflect a planet-destroying blast from the sun. She redirected the full power of Sienna Blaze who's powers were strong enough to split the planet like a ripe melon. All of this, and I still haven't said it all. So, yeah, Storm is MUCH more powerful than Magneto. I don't know why you would bring that up against me when you know I can debunk it. Even Magneto himself has stated that Storm has the power to beat him, but she holds back.

Regarding TPG, what I said was Storm and TPG were Wakanda's two most powerful protectors back when she and T'challa were married.

That said, Storm should be VERY powerful and pitted against villains strong enough to challenge that power. A hero is only overpowered when the opposition is too weak to challenge them. Well, it depends on how you look at it. I don't see Storm as being overpowered as much as I see her being pitted against characters that have no business challenging her. The MU has villains of varying power levels ranging from characters to fight with the likes of Spiderman and Luke Cage all the way up to sparring partners for the likes of Silver Surfer, Thor...and even Galactus, etc. There is definitely a place for a hero as powerful as Storm.

Yeah, you stated that Storm would hurl Doomsday into orbit way back on the AOL boards.

For TPG, you stated that she should not have submitted to judgment regarding the marriage and she should have made that clear to TPG.

You just proved my point.  You won't be happy if he writes her as anything less than an ultimate power.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 06, 2014, 05:21:27 pm
Quote from: Rutog98

I don't ever recall doing a Storm vs. Doomsday debate. LOL! I don't read DC. Storm is definitely more powerful than Magneto. He needs a machine to boost his power just to turn off the lights around the world. In "Magneto War", Magneto created a machine to boost his powers to do just this feat. When the machine was destroyed and he was forced to control all of that energy on his own, he nearly lost his life and was lucky to walk away from the incident with just his mutant powers being permanently burned out from the ordeal. If you try and bring up "Fatal Attractions" where Magneto caused a world wide blackout before this instance in "Magneto War", the only reason he was able to do that there was because Forge's machine was used to skewer the EM field to such a degree that if Magneto had come within the Earth's atmosphere and attempted to use his powers, the fields would have fedback on him instantly killing him. He blasted the skewered geomagnetic field from space while it was warped to this extreme which resulted in the global EMP. Canon has shown that he doesn't have this kind of power under the merits of his own power. He needs technology to do feats that are far below what Storm can do naturally without anything hiking up her powers. Magneto lost credibility years ago. Its become common practice at Marvel that whenever a character more powerful than he faces him in combat, said character's powers levels are adjusted downward to make him a big bad. There are examples of this with other characters besides Storm.

That said, the average hurricane is about 500 miles across and they generate enough power to power supply the entire planet. Storm has controlled hemisphere-sized hurricanes before and continent-sized blizzards.So, she has controlled more energy than it would take to power supply the world exponentially. On another occassion, she created a gamma-powered weather shield around the whole Earth to deflect a planet-destroying blast from the sun. She redirected the full power of Sienna Blaze who's powers were strong enough to split the planet like a ripe melon. All of this, and I still haven't said it all. So, yeah, Storm is MUCH more powerful than Magneto. I don't know why you would bring that up against me when you know I can debunk it. Even Magneto himself has stated that Storm has the power to beat him, but she holds back.

Regarding TPG, what I said was Storm and TPG were Wakanda's two most powerful protectors back when she and T'challa were married.

That said, Storm should be VERY powerful and pitted against villains strong enough to challenge that power. A hero is only overpowered when the opposition is too weak to challenge them. Well, it depends on how you look at it. I don't see Storm as being overpowered as much as I see her being pitted against characters that have no business challenging her. The MU has villains of varying power levels ranging from characters to fight with the likes of Spiderman and Luke Cage all the way up to sparring partners for the likes of Silver Surfer, Thor...and even Galactus, etc. There is definitely a place for a hero as powerful as Storm.

Yeah, you stated that Storm would hurl Doomsday into orbit way back on the AOL boards.

For TPG, you stated that she should not have submitted to judgment regarding the marriage and she should have made that clear to TPG.

You just proved my point.  You won't be happy if he writes her as anything less than an ultimate power.

In regards to the Storm/Doomsday thing, sounds like me. That sounds like an argument I would make proving Storm can beat Doomsday. Hmmm...you've got my creativity thinking on that now. Does Doomsday have x-ray vision? If Storm throws up a blizzard to snowblind him, is he able to locate her her through the snow? She can locate him through the snow in several ways: She can see him with her alternate vision right through the snow and she can feel him moving through the environment. Therefore, if she robs him of his vision, then the fight is automatically a draw if she does nothing else at that point. He just has super strength with a high degree of resistance to injury and the ability to adapt to avoid being killed the same way twice, right? That's a one trick pony power set that isn't a good fight for Storm. In other words, she could snowblind him and then launch him into orbit with her winds while he is unable to locate her. Her winds have been able to lift skyscrapers, strain Magneto's powers to the utmost and, more impressively than that, redirect the full power of Sienna Blaze. Unless Doomsday can fly, he ain't coming back to Earth after being hurled into orbit by Storm, thus Storm wins via battlefield removal.

Magneto simply is not a good fight for Storm, period. In all honesty, Storm should not be pitted against characters with telepathy or elemental powers. Those are some of the weakest abilities one can try and use against Storm short of powersets like Wolverine's and Beast's. This is a lady who can draw energy from the Earth's electrical potential energy to boost her powers. She has channeled the energies of stars and channels large amounts of lightning through her body on many different occasions, thus EM energy attacks should not work directly upon her. On top of it, its canon that she is immune to climate and temperature variations and cannot be directly harmed by the elements (though, she can be hurt by electricity if caught by surprise since her body has to adjust for the energy surge). She can also control EM energies as well as a bunch of things he can't control. With her ability to do things like control air, pressure and heat inside of people's body, how is he going to stop her from controlling the air in his lungs or pressure in his inner ear/stomach/gut/lung/etc or stop her from instantly dropping his internal temperature 200 degrees? What if she decides to instantly remove all the moisture from his body? What is he going to do? She's too powerful and her power set is too versatile for him to overcome much less compete with.

That said, she can be beaten. If she were pitted against someone like Dr. Strange, he could take advantage of a huge weakness she has against magic. If he connects with a mystical attack before she can take him out of the fight, she's done for. A character like Jamie Braddock would also be a good pick for somebody who could wallop Storm.  In my own imagination, I have created several characters that would makle good antagonists for her in battle.

All I'm saying is don't pit Storm against weaklings like Mystique, Pyro, Blob and Avalanch or against characters with powersets like Magneto and Emma Frost (she and Storm used to be bitter enemies) when they have powersets that are next to useless against her and she's gotta be scaled down in order for them to win. (In Emma's case, she only beat Storm their first encounter. After that, Storm's willpower and TP defenses grew to the point where she clobbered Emma twice in battle since then.)

In other words, Storm is enormously powerful. Keep her that way and pit her against villains who can challenge the power she wields or flat out beat it (Jamie Braddock's powerset beats Storm's, so if she ever had to go up against someone like that, she'd have to be sneaky in order to take them out as she would lose in open combat if she challenged them in open battle without anything distracting them from the fight.)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 06, 2014, 06:01:31 pm
I agree that Storm is immensely powerful but she is counterbalanced by being physically human.   Unlike most powerhouses in those upper levels like Thor,  Hyperion, Iron Man, she doesn't have heighten physical abilities.   Even Magneto can use his powers to increase his physical abilities so He could go toe to toe with Colossus in a fist fight.  Green Lantern is constantly shielded.   Yes she can shield herself better than the Scarlett Witch Who apparently now In Storm 's class but it isn't equal to Thor 's body.

It is one of the things that keep her interesting.   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 07, 2014, 12:27:11 am
Here is a link to the Amazing X-Men Annual coming out June 4:

http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/5/6/22465/tuesday_qa_monty_nero (http://marvel.com/news/comics/2014/5/6/22465/tuesday_qa_monty_nero)

Its a Storm-centric story and it looks very promising. It is written by Monty Nero and drawn by Salvador Larroca.

I can't wait! :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 07, 2014, 02:24:08 pm
I agree that Storm is immensely powerful but she is counterbalanced by being physically human.   Unlike most powerhouses in those upper levels like Thor,  Hyperion, Iron Man, she doesn't have heighten physical abilities.   Even Magneto can use his powers to increase his physical abilities so He could go toe to toe with Colossus in a fist fight.  Green Lantern is constantly shielded.   Yes she can shield herself better than the Scarlett Witch Who apparently now In Storm 's class but it isn't equal to Thor 's body.

It is one of the things that keep her interesting.


There's no doubting Storm's abilities but when it comes to going toe-to-toe with true divinity she doesn't particularly measure up....

(http://i45.tinypic.com/20rn4at.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2zxp5ph.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/210hrba.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg)

She can shoot as much lightning out of her ass as she wants to but at the end of the day, she'll always be held back by writers of limited imagination who use her as a Trojan Horse prop to disrespect other characters of worth.

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1zdu8wk.jpg)

Post Reginald Hudlin's elevation of her character she'll always be the feckless jumpoff character the X-Office prefer her to be.

(http://i43.tinypic.com/nmanm0.jpg)

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how "powerful" a character is on paper if their written making idiotic choices.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/zjxxsl.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 07, 2014, 02:44:32 pm
Val don't take any mess from false idols
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 07, 2014, 04:20:53 pm
Those scans have no credibility. Storm was able to defeat a Sentinel above New York City with a hurricane capable of leveling the whole city, yet her control was such that only the robot was hurt while leaving NYC unharmed. Storm has had this degree of control from the get-go as it happened in Uncanny 98. That issue wrote Storm down for Val.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 07, 2014, 04:54:44 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/Gifs/1378095315_laughter_zps1c6906f2.gif)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 08, 2014, 02:12:21 am
Those scans have no credibility. Storm was able to defeat a Sentinel above New York City with a hurricane capable of leveling the whole city, yet her control was such that only the robot was hurt while leaving NYC unharmed. Storm has had this degree of control from the get-go as it happened in Uncanny 98. That issue wrote Storm down for Val.

Oh please shut your mess up.

Storm got her ass handed to her by a true Asgardian powerhouse as would be the case for most mortals.

It's not as if her control of the weather makes her superhuman on the physiology tip.

Brunhilda on the otherhand, is a centuries old Asgardian with all the physical/mystical benefits that come with that heritage.

Only a completely delusional Storm fanatic would state anything to the contrary.

It's funny how the scans of Storm acting like a total bitch and a tool aren't described as lacking "credibility" when they're nothing more than fanwank presented as professional work.

Anyone can beat a Sentinel.

Beating a real Goddess on the otherhand is a totally different matter entirely.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 08, 2014, 09:04:47 am
I will say that Marvel has completely dropped the ball on having TRUE BLACK GODS AND GODDESSES in the 616 universe.

I've never liked how a Caucasian man was written to have gone to Africa and told an African woman that she was not a true goddess...as if he would know.

To me that's another example of white people telling black people what they are and are not, and of who they are and are not.

I resent Marvel's implication with that "canon."

My personal canon is, Charles Xavier didn't know what he was talking about and only told Ororo that she was not a Goddess only because he needed her help to rescue his first group of X-Men and he wanted her on his team. "Here. let me lie to you and make you think you're not divine so that you think less of yourself and come to America and help me fix a mistake that I made. No one has to know except me!"

THAT should be one of Charles Xavier's "Original Sins."

And any time Storm is depicted as a "true Goddess", it always involves her putting on some Asgardian winged helmet and dealing with Asgardian crap instead of dealing with African deities and African mythology.

I'm tired of Marvel repeatedly telling us "Storm's not a real Goddess," but these white women in the Marvel 616 universe are. The same goes for the white males in the 616.

My stance has always been that just because Ororo is a mutant does not immediately or automatically negate the possibility that she really IS a Goddess. She took a white man's words as the TRUTH when he would know less about who she really is than she does.

And let's not forget that a male Caucasian writer came up with that plot point, by the way.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 08, 2014, 10:36:22 am
Quote
In regards to the Storm/Doomsday thing, sounds like me. That sounds like an argument I would make proving Storm can beat Doomsday. Hmmm...you've got my creativity thinking on that now.


(http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Rofl_6738d5_1861765.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 08, 2014, 10:39:36 am
My stance has always been that just because Ororo is a mutant does not immediately or automatically negate the possibility that she really IS a Goddess. She took a white man's words as the TRUTH when he would know less about who she really is than she does.

But she *wasn't* a goddess. And it was only a matter of time before that was going to catch up with her. Remember, Storm tried to prevent a famine in one country only to cause a famine in another. She was fine as long as she didn't leave her little part of the world. If anything, the goddess angle was stupid from day one. Actually, a good part of Storm's origin is stupid as hell. And don't get me started on that whole "butt-nekkid African" sh*t.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on May 08, 2014, 11:12:08 am
I agree with Maxine on this one, the whole goddess thing had serious issues even before Xavier showed up.  Thank goodness there was a Wakanda to contrast that whole "savages praying over a false idol" thing. 

But moneyspider does bring up a good point: it does seem like all the white gods are shown to be legit, or at least uber-powerful, meanwhile the gods of other mythologies are seen as lesser for the most part.

I mean, compare the Olympians and the Asgardians to the Egyptian Gods, nevermind Bast.  There's such a huge contrast. 


Storm definitely ain't the answer though.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 08, 2014, 12:08:00 pm
I think everybody has a point in their posts.


There is no question whatsoever that Storm [ with her incredible combination of being in tune with the elements not just of earth but of life, her all but ignored mighty mystical heritage, her all but ignored royal lineage ] could be written with perfect sensibility as a descended of Ausette or some other African goddess with massive mystical might. Mind [ royalty ] Body [ fine African physique ] Spirit [ elemental ] and Soul [ magical lineage, descendant of a major goddess like Ausette ]  and still be a mutant. An OMEGA LEVEL mutant, thank you. Such a magnificent equilibrium...African, mutant, goddess, warrior, royalty...is very typical of African culture incarnate. Lots of history behind it. Real world history [ except for the mutant stuff ]. She could quite literally be a demigoddess or a full on goddess. Easily. Such a state of affairs would explain her gargantuan spiritual abilities, her capacity to house the essence of Eternity within herself, her comprehensive connection to life energies even in space, why she's able to summon Roguestorm...and more.

She COULD be a goddess...and not even CONSCIOUSLY know it herself.

And this COULD be...in fact is almost certainly...a reflection of the abysmal ignorance of and lack of regard for African spirituality and culture that the Marvel writers have displayed en masse for decades. There are incredible stories that most of us could write regarding Storm's background. We could fill in gaps, resolve so many stupidities, contradictions, etc.

But.

Doesn't change the fact that Ororo accepted the title of Goddess without knowing FOR SURE that SHE WAS ACTUALLY a goddess.  Doesn't change the fact that Ororo has practically limitless power, and is on the one hand written as if she has rejected that power [ we're talking Roguestorm here ] because she probably can't control it...yet on the other hand she's written with the spiritual equilibrium to house the essence of Eternity. Doesn't change the fact that Storm got wild hand to hand squabble skills and will STILL get A Pimp Named Slickback smacked da hell up by Val in any h2h throwdown.

If Ororo can house the essence of Eternity? She can rock Roguestorm. End of.

 Yes, she was written down for Val...because Roguestorm would kick the living snot out of Val. On the other hand, Val IS not just A VALKYRIE, she is THEE VALKYRIE. She would kick the preposterous crap out of Storm in any form of h2h throwdown. That's what Val does. That's her thing. If Ororo trained with TChalla? She would do better vs Val...but Val still wins any h2h fisticuffs style throwdown via omfg mollywhoppage.

On. The. Other. Hand.

If Ororo really has the African goddess lineage rockin? She would likely be able to summon the fighting experience of said goddesses. Warrior goddesses. Undefeated warrior goddesses.

If that's so? Storm might just have tuh Sharkeisha dat a$$. Lolol. Okay, yes, even your SUPREME ILLUMINATI can go there from time to time.

As matters stand? Well...

...Storm is in potentially great hands with Mr. Pak. Mr. Pak is DEFINITELY aware of MOST of our concerns. Judging from how he wrecked shop with WAR MACHINE? Yeah...he'll probably write stories that will have us all standing up cheering and saying ABOUT DAMN TIME. Even our very own Mac Beam Shaw...er, Maxine Shaw...might like the stories he writes.

Course, she won't read 'em anyway. So we'll just have to inform her of our opinions and allat on this Forum.

Oh yeah...I seriously do NOT get down with the general feeling that RH turned Ororo into a cheerleader for TChalla. There's a big difference between being down for your man and being a door mat for your man. Queen Ororo is nobody's door mat, and wasn't written that way. Cheerleaders don't stand down Iron Man, go toe to toe with Death, and rescue [ several times ] from serious extremis the person whom they are the helpless feckless second fiddle for...by overcoming foes that the lead guy didn't. Cheerleaders don't usher in the next Black Panther...and the first in 616 continuity living reigning FEMALE Black Panther...while bringing the Wakandan Council to heel, either.

Juss sayin.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 08, 2014, 01:16:50 pm
Course, she won't read 'em anyway. So we'll just have to inform her of our opinions and allat on this Forum.

Oh yeah...I seriously do NOT get down with the general feeling that RH turned Ororo into a cheerleader for TChalla. There's a big difference between being down for your man and being a door mat for your man. Queen Ororo is nobody's door mat, and wasn't written that way. Cheerleaders don't stand down Iron Man, go toe to toe with Death, and rescue [ several times ] from serious extremis the person whom they are the helpless feckless second fiddle for...by overcoming foes that the lead guy didn't. Cheerleaders don't usher in the next Black Panther...and the first in 616 continuity living reigning FEMALE Black Panther...while bringing the Wakandan Council to heel, either.

Juss sayin.



I love your point of view here at HEF, Supreme.  You are not like those fanatics whose only purpose is to create chaos. You are respectful of everyone's opinions in the forum and I never feel as if you are trying to rankle anyone here with the reading material.  I believe part of the reason is because most folks know that you can crush them with your bare hands in real life.  ;D
However, power is a very relative element in the MARVEL universe; the saying goes, "With great power comes great responsibility"  and I believe that concept carries throughout all of the characters in the MARVEL universe.  The way I perceived Hudlin's treatment of Storm as a emotionally intelligent Black woman who carries a large lightning bolt, not a cheerleader.  Storm reminded me more of First Lady Michelle Obama than a perky, pom-pom carrying sweetheart.  She always seemed to keep her emotions in check when paired with T'Challa but the way she's written by the post-Hudlin writers, Storm behaves like a freshman in High School in a ghetto neighborhood.  :-\
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 08, 2014, 02:38:44 pm
Those scans have no credibility. Storm was able to defeat a Sentinel above New York City with a hurricane capable of leveling the whole city, yet her control was such that only the robot was hurt while leaving NYC unharmed. Storm has had this degree of control from the get-go as it happened in Uncanny 98. That issue wrote Storm down for Val.

No she wasn't written down,  she was holding back and underestimated Val's resolve.    If she knew Val was going to act that way (and had a better handle on Val 's invulnerability and endurance,  she would have fought in a different way.   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 08, 2014, 04:11:08 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 09, 2014, 12:23:25 pm
Trust me, I’m not “goin-in” as hard as I could. Without poise my position would prove invalid. My stance has to be debunked based upon the merit of the information.

If I wanted to go hard-- I would start with (Daniel) Jericho Drumm aka Brother VooDoo.

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dr-voodoo-1.jpg)

Check the white “Mohawk.” Storm’s Mohawk is still questionable.

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/10/105334/2471398-doomvsdoctorvoodoo05.jpg)

Storm's mo' could be in dread(lock)form too. maybe!

(http://www.comicsbulletin.com/main/sites/default/files/foom/images/0910/ST170origin.jpg)

Yes, Brother VooDoo! The original term “VUDUN” (voodum, vodum, voudou, vodo).
 
I could start with the BP/ Spawn comparisons (even Afro Samurai) but Bro' is his own character. I could break-down the true origins of vudum but the “shrunken-heads” would come under-fire. He’s has a good story & title worth developing, too.

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_ZdP9hWCG3KQ-iDs7Y6ctGeFukUO1msGki8jvy3qoiKOLyYmf)   (http://www.otakufuel.com/images/products/large_7872_GE9834.jpg)

Jericho & Daniel/ Afro & Ninja Ninja

again, I'll come back to Bro' Voo' some other time.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-RbDfRgaAF_U/Te2JwehCldI/AAAAAAAATHQ/aFCfR4u28SE/s400/scan0010.jpg)

Storm...

She’s headed to the Caribbean in the new series? A Doc-Voo cameo could go bad. I’d have to disapprove of Storm battling another black dude, especially after her domestic-disturbance-assault past.

Match-making? Storm & Dr. VooDoo?

Jungle Love” ~The Time (background chorus “O re O re O”) Ororo? get it? No? -lol

Powers? They gave it to Quire

(http://multiversitystatic.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2014/03/Quentin-Quire-BAMF-Jason-Latour.jpg)

nice pink "Mohawk", Quentin! real nice! Storm’s Mohawk is still questionable.


Goddess?  Like it or not Tchalla is a demi-god. I’d put Storm in the demi-goddess category. Yep, more perfect for each other.


 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 09, 2014, 08:04:44 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.


To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??


Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.


I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.


And what makes the position of some of these so-called Storm fans who love to rant about how "devalued" she was supposed to have been whilst appearing in the Reginald Hudlin's BP so laughable is stuff like this....

Where the "goddess" can barely hold her own against first Magneto....

(http://i58.tinypic.com/16qdqv.jpg)

before getting obliterated by an alternate reality Dark Phoenix.....

(http://i57.tinypic.com/21ne6uq.jpg)

But as long as they get a glimpse of Ororo stomping her feet in faux fiercness all's right with the world.....Yaaaaaaaaasss!

(http://i58.tinypic.com/2hs8dic.jpg)

I LOL'd so hard when I read this exchange with Ororo barking at Cyclop's with a request to speak in private. Funny how the writer never bothered to show what that private discussion was.

Maybe Ororo was finally getting round to having that word with Scott that she claimed they'd have when the matter of his sanctioned death squad came to light years ago. :smh:

The ever nauseating faux diversity of the X-rags never fails to deliver.

(http://i59.tinypic.com/33p8y77.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/eqrv3n.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 09, 2014, 08:30:01 pm
Storm fans have gripes about "No More Mutants." I'm not buying it, personally. Here are some of the posts I've done on it voicing my feelings on the matter:

Post 1
I've been e-mailing with WINDRIDER about the No More Humans story. Though I did not read the graphic novel for myself, I don't plan to buy it given the treatment of Storm's powers as outlined by WINDRIDER and The Weather God. Part of the reason I believe Storm was weakened like that was to make Magneto relevant. I don't think Storm does well on a cast with other elementals. I make this assertion because her elemental powerset is so varied and powerful that often times its scaled back. If you have Storm on a team, you don't need people like Magneto and Iceman. Its really kind of redundant, if you ask me. About the only thing Magneto would add to a team with Storm on the roster is metallic control (which she should be able to do as well magnetically, but doesn't. She controls EM energies like Magneto, but uses them in a different way for different, more powerful purposes. She combines that energy with other forces he does not control for her weather feats.) The writer was obviously not happy with just having Magneto as a metal thrower, so he weakened Storm to give him a power niche to fill on the team.

I hope Iceman leaves the cast of "Amazing X-Men" when Yost comes on board for this reason. Iceman's ability is essentially to move moisture around and remove heat from his target space. Storm can do the same things and she's much more powerful. Not only can she move heat from a target space, she can also ADD heat to an area. She can also control moisture PLUS she has all the other stuff with pressure gradients, wind, atomic level control over the air, control over electricity/electrons and EM energies, etc. Iceman really doesn't have a niche to fill on a team with Storm that she can't fill. This is usually a cause for concern given that it heightens the propensity for Storm's powers to be devalued in orer to make another elemental like Iceman have a purpose on the team in terms of power. That said, I am still VERY hopeful and optimistic about Yost taking over AXM given how powerfully he portrayed Storm in Worlds Apart. In order to make Iceman (and, to a lesser degree, maybe Firestar) useful to the team, this is probably why the current exiting writer of AXM devalued Storm by writing her powerless in the arc that just concluded. I mean, we all know that Storm has the ability to control whatever forces are present no matter where she is. There was heat, moisture and air all present in this hellish dimension all of which falls under Storm's dominion. Even when she is at a place where the forces are very different from those found on the Earth, she is still able to exercise supreme power over those forces as demonstrated in the Trion arc circa Uncanny 365. Since Storm still has her formidable H2H combat skills to rely on, if powerless, the writer probably just figured to write her without her powers and go back to her H2H so that Iceman would have a reason to be on the team.


Post 2 on "No More Mutants"

Also, if Storm can rip electrons out of Stardust, a HERALD OF GALACTUS, and send them back with enough force to blow up his physical form, then she doesn't need Magneto to pull electrons out of a machine for her. She can do that herself. She's even managed to make all of the power in a skrull space ship go away with a mere thought. Again, I agree with you 100% on the part about Jean Grey pulling oxygen into the field. That totally should have been Storm. We saw Storm out in deep space during her run on the FF where she was able to control air at the atomic level to create a mini-atmosphere composed of hydrogen atoms around the Silver Surfer. She not only pulled them together efforlessly in deep space, she held them together with no strain at all as she struck him with that MASSIVE bolt of lightning she generated in the space/cosmic environment.


They are in agreement with me on this.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 09, 2014, 08:49:56 pm
But moneyspider does bring up a good point: it does seem like all the white gods are shown to be legit, or at least uber-powerful, meanwhile the gods of other mythologies are seen as lesser for the most part.

True, true. If you can have gods, why not goddesses?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 09, 2014, 09:32:31 pm
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.

Lets talk about a couple of things, here.

First off, regarding the Storm/Panther mini as written by EJD, I am against it for many reasons. While I don't like how it was rewritten with Storm having to be saved by T'challa (I think the writer should have stuck to the original story and expanded on it. He could have come up with a reason why T'challa needed saving. Maybe T'challa ate some bad food the night before which would have slowed him down. Maybe the guys who ambushed him knew they could not take him and created a fire using herbs that produce hallucinogenic affects if the smoke of their burning is inhaled. They could have created this fire the night before as he slept and positioned it where he would be downwind of the smoke. By the time he woke up, the effects would have already been taking their toll on him when Storm swoops in. Anything number of scenarios could have been implemented to ensure T'challa didn't get the short end of the stick either. Rather than doing this, he devalued Storm. That's TERRIBLE), the larger issues I had concerning the portrayal of Storm had to do with her awkward speech patterns and overall demeanor. In the original story, Storm was very regal and already on her way to being the "untouchable, unattainable goddess". That's the reason she reacted to his offer of kissing her the way she did in the original story. Its a part of her character to act the way she acted. EDJ totally changed who she is. This also ties into Jenn's point about the sex thing. Storm would not have felt at that time she was ready for that kind of intimacy. She was guided from on high by the "Song of the Wind" which told her it was time to leave T'challa in the original telling of the story when she departed. In other words, something like that would not have been what she was looking for and it felt unnatural. I mean, she went from responding to his desire to kiss her with, "if that is your way" in the original story to intercourse in the EJD version.  Storm also had more confidence in herself in the original story while she had virtually no self-esteem at all in the retelling authored by EJD.

EJD does not get Storm AT ALL.

I think a good story should have been written where NEITHER character was devalued.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on May 10, 2014, 06:29:32 pm
Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that? I say that Storm's been written pretty appropriately. She's strong, but not overpowered.

Clamoring for her to be jacked up (power-wise) like a black, female, weather-based, version of freakin' Goku is awful. Especially when she's running around and talking down to everyone with the same faux important "Don't Mess With the Goddess!" attitude before she instantly turns into a nurturing woman, like she's bi-polar/mentally unstable. Which is equally awful. Not to mention lame. And despite the claims to the contrary, that is just what a vocal portion of Storm fans want her to be. Which is why I then scratch my head, when they complain about the character being written inconsistantly.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 10, 2014, 06:43:56 pm
Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on May 10, 2014, 06:51:10 pm
Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.

First off, nice. That was a speedy response.

Secondly, have there been any panels in the last 10, 15, or 20 years that have shown that she can do any of what I mentioned about what Iceman can do or greater, on the regular? Creating sculptures isn't creating a walking skyscraper sized giant out of ice. Or has her strength cap been silently retconned and lowered to a more "realistic" level like Spiderman? Who has been able to pick up entire locomotives with ease in the past, but certainly can't do anything like that now? Which doesn't take away from the fact that he's still incredibly strong.

Lastly, she's never been classified as an Omega Level Mutant. Just a possible one. Which wasn't followed up years later, she was arguably stronger and next to Bobby.

I mean, even Magneto has been able to fully shield himself from the Dark Phoenix's blasts in the past. While Storm was flatout fricasseed.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 10, 2014, 09:27:14 pm
Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.

First off, nice. That was a speedy response.

Secondly, have there been any panels in the last 10, 15, or 20 years that have shown that she can do any of what I mentioned about what Iceman can do or greater, on the regular? Creating sculptures isn't creating a walking skyscraper sized giant out of ice. Or has her strength cap been silently retconned and lowered to a more "realistic" level like Spiderman? Who has been able to pick up entire locomotives with ease in the past, but certainly can't do anything like that now? Which doesn't take away from the fact that he's still incredibly strong.

Lastly, she's never been classified as an Omega Level Mutant. Just a possible one. Which wasn't followed up years later, she was arguably stronger and next to Bobby.

I mean, even Magneto has been able to fully shield himself from the Dark Phoenix's blasts in the past. While Storm was flatout fricasseed.

Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on May 10, 2014, 10:02:43 pm
Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.

I was going to comment on the first paragraph, but then I read the bold. Which is where the problem lies with your line of thought. She doesn't fulfill the definition of an Omega, because each time that it's been time to define her as one, Marvel has said "Hell no she's not!" And they (Marvel) deals out the cards and decide what's official/canon, whether you like it or not. Since Storm isn't real and doesn't write herself, unless what you claim is actually stated on the page, then it's little more than irrelevant Storm Fanfiction. You can't just make up labels for her and grant her made up feats because she's done something that's loosely associated with the requirements. Because by that logic you could say that "Since Storm is somewhat good at H2H, that she is on the same level as Black Widow, Gamora, Karnak, Iron Fist, Punisher, or Elektra." Which is preposterous as she's never been shown to be on that level, or has been given a label/title that shows her as being up there.

And Galactus isn't Omega Level, so that's a bad example. Because you're wrong. He's above Omega at Cosmic level. Right up there with other god characters like Blackheart, Odin, C'thon, and Shuma-Gorath. Iceman, has been officially labeled as Omega, while Storm still lags behind. This is canon. Storm Fanfiction be darned.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 10, 2014, 11:47:33 pm
Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.

I was going to comment on the first paragraph, but then I read the bold. Which is where the problem lies with your line of thought. She doesn't fulfill the definition of an Omega, because each time that it's been time to define her as one, Marvel has said "Hell no she's not!" And they (Marvel) deals out the cards and decide what's official/canon, whether you like it or not. Since Storm isn't real and doesn't write herself, unless what you claim is actually stated on the page, then it's little more than irrelevant Storm Fanfiction. You can't just make up labels for her and grant her made up feats because she's done something that's loosely associated with the requirements. Because by that logic you could say that "Since Storm is somewhat good at H2H, that she is on the same level as Black Widow, Gamora, Karnak, Iron Fist, Punisher, or Elektra." Which is preposterous as she's never been shown to be on that level, or has been given a label/title that shows her as being up there.

And Galactus isn't Omega Level, so that's a bad example. Because you're wrong. He's above Omega at Cosmic level. Right up there with other god characters like Blackheart, Odin, C'thon, and Shuma-Gorath. Iceman, has been officially labeled as Omega, while Storm still lags behind. This is canon. Storm Fanfiction be darned.

You seriously need to go back and read the original X-Men Forever mini that came out in the 90s which was the genesis of the "Omega Mutant" title. It is EXACTLY as I've stated it to be. This was a class of mutants who could potentially wield unlimited power and could match and/or beat people like Galactus if they ever reached their full potential. Claremont established Storm as having the potential to wield unlimited power during his first run. Lobdell, who came up with the whole "Omega Mutant" thing tried to weaken Storm. He stripped her of power levels that were already established for the character.

That said, it is on the page that Storm can potential transcend humanity and evolve into a true goddess. It is on the page that she can potentially wield unlimited power. All of this is canon. She fits the very definition of Omega Mutant as it was originally intended, though, she fulfilled that definition under the pen of a different writer who I don't ever recall using the omega classification.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 11, 2014, 04:47:42 am
One part I have seen in the definition of an Omega level mutant is that using their powers has no negative impact on their body.    That is not true for  Storm.  Her power had had negative impacts on her health.   The Rogue Storm incident nearly killed her.  Didn't we see the results of over using her power in X-Men the End? (Can't remember. )

 However since this is a made up word, the definition could change depending on who is writing.  That is probably why Vulcan is claimed to be above an Omega level mutant.

One should note that being an Omega level mutant doesn't mean powerful.   Mr. Immortal is an Omega level and his only power is that he keeps coming back to life.   Not exactly powerful there. 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 12, 2014, 08:00:31 am
One part I have seen in the definition of an Omega level mutant is that using their powers has no negative impact on their body.    That is not true for  Storm.  Her power had had negative impacts on her health.   The Rogue Storm incident nearly killed her.  Didn't we see the results of over using her power in X-Men the End? (Can't remember. )

 However since this is a made up word, the definition could change depending on who is writing.  That is probably why Vulcan is claimed to be above an Omega level mutant.

One should note that being an Omega level mutant doesn't mean powerful.   Mr. Immortal is an Omega level and his only power is that he keeps coming back to life.   Not exactly powerful there.

Originally, an omega mutant was a mutant with the potential to wield "unlimited power" who could match and beat people like Galactus at their full power. If they have changed that since this, I don't know. I haven't been following the book.

That said, Storm has the potential to transcend her human body. Just because she has that potential does not mean she will achieve it. It is something she will have to want to do and she would have to push her power there. If she chooses to push for her ultimate power, then her power will have no limits and she will transcend beyond the limitations of her human form.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 12, 2014, 09:32:20 am
Sorry until that happens this is nothing more than speculation at best.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 12, 2014, 10:19:49 am
Similar to Geoff John's (who writes a great BP btw) or Bendis (who doesn't) , McDuffie is a name and brings his own audience.

Geoff John wrote BP? I freakin love GJ!! When did he write BP?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on May 12, 2014, 10:39:16 am
Similar to Geoff John's (who writes a great BP btw) or Bendis (who doesn't) , McDuffie is a name and brings his own audience.

Geoff John wrote BP? I freakin love GJ!! When did he write BP?

During his short Avengers run( Red Zone )

I know it's gotten the stamp of approval by others but all I know Johns from is his GL and Flash stuff and as a Kyle and Wally fan his writing of them didn't endear himself to me
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 12, 2014, 11:14:08 am
Similar to Geoff John's (who writes a great BP btw) or Bendis (who doesn't) , McDuffie is a name and brings his own audience.

Geoff John wrote BP? I freakin love GJ!! When did he write BP?

During his short Avengers run( Red Zone )

I know it's gotten the stamp of approval by others but all I know Johns from is his GL and Flash stuff and as a Kyle and Wally fan his writing of them didn't endear himself to me

Ohhhhh YEEEAAAHHHHH!! He MERKED that run. Helluva good writing by our Geoff Johns on that run. "TChalla, I know you like to manipulate people and move people around like chess pieces. But I'm not playing your game."

"But Stark...you're my knight!" CLASSIC LINE.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 21, 2014, 10:53:42 am
Is she still with Logan or not because if she is I'm not spending a dime on this book.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 21, 2014, 01:21:30 pm
Is she still with Logan or not because if she is I'm not spending a dime on this book.
You should see the panel of Logan saying the classic line of "you're too good for me" despite the fact that I slept with you.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on May 21, 2014, 02:55:02 pm
You should see the panel of Logan saying the classic line of "you're too good for me" despite the fact that I slept with you.

"You're too good for me but I hit it anyway LOLOLOL BYE BITCH!"
(might not be an exact quote)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 21, 2014, 03:40:50 pm
Isn't he supposed to die shortly after this title begins.  So he can't be around for long.

Seems like Calisto is going to be one of her first villains.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 21, 2014, 04:24:27 pm
I'd like to see some African gods and goddesses show up in her book...Shango and Oya, for starters.

Shango is the Yoruba god of fire, thunder and lightning, and Oya is the Yoruba warrior goddess connected to wind, lightning, fertility, fire and magic.


Oya:

(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Oya.jpg)

Shango:

(http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Shango.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 21, 2014, 06:16:42 pm
I'm with you, Moneyspider. I want to see some uberpowerful characters show up in Storm's title. Callisto is connected to Storm's past, so it makes sense for her to show up in the title, but I want to see Storm face antagonists who are worthy of her power.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 21, 2014, 06:53:47 pm
Good luck with that lol
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 21, 2014, 07:04:21 pm
I'd like to see some African gods and goddesses show up in her book...Shango and Oya, for starters.

Shango is the Yoruba god of fire, thunder and lightning, and Oya is the Yoruba warrior goddess connected to wind, lightning, fertility, fire and magic.


Oya:

([url]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Oya.jpg[/url])

Shango:

([url]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Shango.jpg[/url])


In my instructionals, I used these very images to show specifically how the knowledge brought about by our African spiritual practices has the most profound impact on our martial arts arsenal, technique application, tactics, strategies, and much more. Much more. I specifically point out that lack of knowledge of the orixas will wholesale prevent you/us/whoever from practicing African martial arts like Kipura...miscalled Capoeira.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on May 21, 2014, 07:05:29 pm
You should see the panel of Logan saying the classic line of "you're too good for me" despite the fact that I slept with you.

"You're too good for me but I hit it anyway LOLOLOL BYE BITCH!"
(might not be an exact quote)

*dead*
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on May 22, 2014, 08:16:53 am
I noticed in the latest solicits of one of his ten books they were "finally" going on a date and I'm thinking I'm not here for this bullish.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 22, 2014, 09:48:55 am
I noticed in the latest solicits of one of his ten books they were "finally" going on a date and I'm thinking I'm not here for this bullish.

That's in "Wolverine and the X-Men", not her ongoing title. That said, Wolverine is going to die soon. You survived the Storm mini by EJD, so you're tough enough to survive this business with Wolverine for just a few more months. I'm not even picking up that Wolverine title.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 22, 2014, 10:59:22 am
Wolverine is going to die and come back to rise again. He is an avenger remember?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on May 22, 2014, 11:31:28 am
Of course Wolverine will come back...eventually, but by that time, the Storm/Wolverine thing will be outdated. Storm's character will have moved on to bigger and better things.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 22, 2014, 05:43:41 pm
I'd like to see some African gods and goddesses show up in her book...Shango and Oya, for starters.

Shango is the Yoruba god of fire, thunder and lightning, and Oya is the Yoruba warrior goddess connected to wind, lightning, fertility, fire and magic.


Oya:

([url]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Oya.jpg[/url])

Shango:

([url]http://i668.photobucket.com/albums/vv42/moneyspider1/Shango.jpg[/url])


In my instructionals, I used these very images to show specifically how the knowledge brought about by our African spiritual practices has the most profound impact on our martial arts arsenal, technique application, tactics, strategies, and much more. Much more. I specifically point out that lack of knowledge of the orixas will wholesale prevent you/us/whoever from practicing African martial arts like Kipura...miscalled Capoeira.


yes, great post, moneyspider. very deep, supreme illuminati. excellent
 

Zeus= (Greek) god- lightning

Tlaloc= (Aztec) god- lightning/ storms

Leir = (Celtic) god- lightning

Tian-Mu= (Asian) god- lightning

Thor= (Norsemen) god- lightning

Ororo= (African) not a god- mutant- lightning/ storms

Devalued powers? Of course. She has the capabilities of the gods but not considered a goddess. How is Thor a god but she’s not? 

Storm is headed to the Caribbean where Yoruba is still heavily practiced, along with Vudun (Voodoo). She may be viewed as a witch or a sorceress,  by the locals.

The X-writers may choose to suppress her character but run into dangerous territory when they suppress an entire cultural belief system. Imagine Storm being worshipped as a black goddess for & by black people. That’s way too much for fan-boys to handle. I never thought it was racism... just culturalism, classism, mutualism. It’s still an “ism” & isms are usually followed by discrimination.

I  stated it before I’ll state it again= 1000 times better


Anyone that has any doubts about her “goddess” status obviously enjoys the mutant label she’s been given. Why wouldn’t Ororo have basic knowledge of the pantheon of lightning gods? Because Storm is a fictional
character & the writers did not do their research or do not want to portray/ represent her to the fullest. 

Should fans speak-out when they disagree with the way a character is being portrayed?

Let’s deal with the elephant in the room. RH (Reginald Hudlin.)! Is it possible that the only reason Storm & Tcallah reached the height of heights is because of his status?
Is RH the “Muhammad Ali” of the comic-book sport? Was the coupling of our beloved characters a form of social black activism? There goes another “ism” followed by discrimination. Let’s face it, the guy has the credentials to do whatever he wanted with BP & Storm.

He single-handedly did what Milestone Comics did. They all promoted black heroes as “pop icons” without the blaxpliotation. Black culture is pop culture. The fan-boy mentality is to make sure it’s not too-black too-strong. BP is the king of a sovereign African Nation. Is BP too black for Storm?

Storm is on her new “Miss Independent Super-Hero (ex)Wife” thing. Zeus earrings in full effect!   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 22, 2014, 06:16:06 pm
Devalued powers? Of course. She has the capabilities of the gods but not considered a goddess. How is Thor a god but she’s not? 
..............
Because being a god in the Marvel Universe has nothing to do with power.   Mostly it is about what species you are born into and a mystical nature.  Since both her parents are human and her powers are science based then she isn't.   Of course there have been times in Marvel where they say that Thor and the rest really aren't gods either,  at least not in the religious sense.

Hulk, even Spider - Man is more powerful than some of the Asgradians, but even Galactus isn't a god. 

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 22, 2014, 07:50:34 pm
Devalued powers? Of course. She has the capabilities of the gods but not considered a goddess. How is Thor a god but she’s not? 
..............
Because being a god in the Marvel Universe has nothing to do with power.   Mostly it is about what species you are born into and a mystical nature.  Since both her parents are human and her powers are science based then she isn't.   Of course there have been times in Marvel where they say that Thor and the rest really aren't gods either,  at least not in the religious sense.

Hulk, even Spider - Man is more powerful than some of the Asgradians, but even Galactus isn't a god. 




I like it. I like it a lot. Fantastic POV.

So, is she a goddess or should she be considered a goddess? Demi-god? Mortal or immortal or some-place in between? She could be. 
Jesus was born by a mortal parent. No?

Mephisto is not Satan, but a creature from some-sort of alternate universe. He was created by a suicidal god-like being.  He poses as the devil & created the Ghost Rider. He’s not considered an (evil) god, either, but has god power.

Milestone had Static. He’s not a god but has some of Storm‘s (electrical) powers.

Galactus gets his power from a power source. The same source he gave to Silver Surfer.

I read somewhere that Thor could beat Superman. Why? The logic was, Superman is an alien but Thor is a god.

From a religious stand point you’re right. The god concept may confuse folks. Power does not equal god-level. Especially suppressed powers. Are any black characters god-like?  Omega-level-Mutant?  Who should have such power? BP? Storm?   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 22, 2014, 10:33:02 pm
Devalued powers? Of course. She has the capabilities of the gods but not considered a goddess. How is Thor a god but she’s not? 
..............
Because being a god in the Marvel Universe has nothing to do with power.   Mostly it is about what species you are born into and a mystical nature.  Since both her parents are human and her powers are science based then she isn't.   Of course there have been times in Marvel where they say that Thor and the rest really aren't gods either,  at least not in the religious sense.

Hulk, even Spider - Man is more powerful than some of the Asgradians, but even Galactus isn't a god.


also...

The DC / Marvel collab known as Amalgram Comics

Amazon #1(1996) Princess Storm is the adopted daughter of the Amazon Queen.

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/amazon8.jpg?w=1000&h=)

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/amazon9.jpg?w=1200&h=)

Skills and Abilities: Storm
She can also view the world in terms of energy patterns and can sense disturbances in nature. This control is dependent on her will and strength of her body. Due to her powers she is immune to temperature extremes.
She can also mold her lightning into a lightning lasso which once ensnared compels those caught to speak the truth.


(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/amazon1.jpg?w=700&h=)

At one point, Zeus offered to make Wonder Woman a goddess. She refused.

Asgard (What If?) Storm. She needs a "god" co-sign. She could get the same status from Shango/ Oya. Right?
(http://pics.livejournal.com/icon_uk/pic/0048x2qc)

When she’s down with the Greek gods- she’s a god or a Queen. But, why wouldn’t she be considered a goddess in African/ Caribbean mythology? Just a mutant or witch? She was a Queen with BP.

damn, damn, damn James!

2010 drawings (fun stuff)
 
wonder woman
(http://th05.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/227/f/e/wonderwoman__fanart_by_apexabyss.jpg)

thor
(http://th00.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2010/226/e/8/thor__fanart_by_apexabyss.jpg)

did you check-out Storm's earrings? Stars. they know the lightning bolt earrings represents Zeus. I know it too.

2014 drawing
Storm & BP (yes, I gave him a beard & gave her hips)
(http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2014/025/e/b/preview__b_p__fan_comic__3__feat__storm_by_apexabyss-d73hbab.png)

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 23, 2014, 02:03:46 am
Storm is headed to the Caribbean where Yoruba is still heavily practiced, along with Vudun (Voodoo). She may be viewed as a witch or a sorceress,  by the locals.

The X-writers may choose to suppress her character but run into dangerous territory when they suppress an entire cultural belief system. Imagine Storm being worshipped as a black goddess for & by black people. That’s way too much for fan-boys to handle. I never thought it was racism... just culturalism, classism, mutualism. It’s still an “ism” & isms are usually followed by discrimination.




Agreed.

Magnificent pencils, by the way. (http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/41.gif)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 23, 2014, 03:46:51 am
I read somewhere that Thor could beat Superman. Why? The logic was, Superman is an alien but Thor is a god..
....

When they wrote that story,  Superman beat Thor.   And Thor fans went through the roof.   

Really in Marvel,  being a god doesn't mean much.   Many Asgardian have no special powers,  except they live very long time and they are somewhat stronger than human.   The Warrior Three are really just good fighters and some what stronger than human.  They have no other powers.   But Blue Marvel is leagues above them in terms of power.   Actually Marvel is more powerful than any other Asgardian except Odin and Thor.   Thor is probably in the same class,  Odin is more powerful than both.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 23, 2014, 12:08:03 pm
Personally, I'd like it if Ororo's mother N'Dare was retconned into not only having been a Kenyan princess, but also to have been a demi-goddess or a full goddess herself, and then N'Dare fell in love with David Munroe and they created Ororo, a demi-goddess. Something like what happened to Captain Benjamin Sisko on DS9, where I think in the final season, Ben discovered that his REAL mother was a prophet or a goddess or some sort of deity.

But that's just because I love the idea of African goddesses and African gods, and I've been on a YouTube tear recently trying to find videos about African deities (I could also search the Internet for articles, but I really like video presentations about such topics).
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 23, 2014, 04:05:20 pm
I loved Greg Pak's Planet Hulk but in this instance, would have much preferred Afua Richardson as scribe and artist for the Storm solo gig.

(http://i57.tinypic.com/zvvrjq.jpg)

(http://i59.tinypic.com/ab5ow0.jpg)

(http://i57.tinypic.com/rua89c.jpg)

http://www.afuarichardson.info/about/# (http://www.afuarichardson.info/about/#)

http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/front-page-comic-news/76581-afua-richardson-oncoming-storm.html (http://www.bleedingcool.com/forums/front-page-comic-news/76581-afua-richardson-oncoming-storm.html)

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 23, 2014, 04:44:50 pm
Have we seen any artwork from the book yet?

Anyone have good samples of the artist's work?   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on May 23, 2014, 09:29:49 pm
Oh my jeebus.

She is totally hot
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 24, 2014, 06:01:39 am
Yep, Afua is totally awesome. I already stated how great it would be to have black women as the creators of the new Storm series. I used the SNL example, because they hired three black women, this season. Bravo, NBC!

Let’s keep it real. I still believe (100%) I have the answer for how to develop the series.

“I’ll diss your magazine & still won’t get a weak review. I’ll make your freak leave you...” ~Eminem

“If I knew what I knew in the past I woulda been blacked-out on yo ass!” ~Kanye West

Whatever they produce (victor & greg) should be interesting & entertaining. But, will they raise the bar? Will their Storm trump or supersede the Storms of the past? Will their Storm be more of the same ol same?

Who would you choose (besides me) to develop the new Storm series?

I’m smart & humble enough to put the best creators on top.

Dream team creators: NAS/ Chuck D /Michelle Obama / black confident conscious creators/ The HEF squad

Creators:

#2. Afua Richardson

#3. Bryan D. Davis


(http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2014/010/0/5/05652f38649ea29174245b8a10042bda-d71p40o.jpg)

(http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs37/i/2008/271/2/1/ACTION_KEYS_by_braeonArt.jpg)

(http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/168/1/3/some_of_my_art_2011_2012_by_braeonart-d53vpdu.jpg)

#4.  Amei Zhao (colours are amazing)

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/99b29fa64fe63365d38f178a4201150d/tumblr_n3srnhfhCp1qct03ko10_250.jpg)   (http://37.media.tumblr.com/db45d834ff1f4b679b0c7b7b6b7763b3/tumblr_n3srnhfhCp1qct03ko3_250.jpg)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/69505da25462effa647d3f32ac7c800a/tumblr_n21pj6o62w1qct03ko1_500.jpg)

#5. Ron Ackins


(http://24.media.tumblr.com/fc835e487d8e1b2450c4370b6e1ad8dc/tumblr_mh3bb3wrdv1s228wyo1_1280.jpg)

(http://31.media.tumblr.com/f81892d17e0bc8337f60ede7eb01535d/tumblr_mfws206vOB1s228wyo1_1280.jpg)

Mshindo Kuumba.

Chase Conley 

David Williams

Aminah Jones 

Rashad Doucet 


and several others...






Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Metro on May 24, 2014, 06:31:48 am

Don't forget Jiba Molei Anderson.

http://jazintellect.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/lumumba-funk-thats-what-it-is/ (http://jazintellect.wordpress.com/2014/02/23/lumumba-funk-thats-what-it-is/)

Lumumba Funk opens the door to do these stories now with much greater reach than anything Marvel or DC have conceived.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on May 24, 2014, 03:56:15 pm
(http://i60.tinypic.com/2415zis.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Frostbite883 on May 27, 2014, 02:27:48 pm
Just so you guys know (and/or remember), there are african gods that exist in the Marvel Universe other than Bast and his relatives (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/godsegpt.htm).

Introducing The Vodu (http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/africg.htm)!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on May 27, 2014, 04:34:04 pm
Well, Marvel needs to start using them and stop shoving Greek and Asgardian gods and goddesses down our throats.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 27, 2014, 04:47:00 pm
Just so you guys know (and/or remember), there are african gods that exist in the Marvel Universe other than Bast and his relatives ([url]http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/godsegpt.htm[/url]).

Introducing The Vodu ([url]http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/africg.htm[/url])!


told yah, I'm not goin' as hard as I could... I should have dealt with this when I posted the stuff about Dr. VooDoo. I said I would come back to it, so...


Uh, yeah, great find, Frostbite883. Anything to get Storm back to her roots is a plus. cheers to you.

But, there are some inconsistencies. The original tenants of Vodun did not include deities. Yoruba is a derivative of Vodun, in the same way Judaism & Catholicism is to Christianity. The original practice of Vodun was the appreciation of all things in nature (earth, wind, fire, water, etc).

The link refers or associates deities to ancestral Vodun, known as “The Vodu”.  The deities came much later & the practitioners began to merge (or were persuaded to merge) the two belief systems. Showing deities & calling them The Vodu is irresponsible, because it represents further deviation of the original tenants. Today, Voodoo has been laced with dozens of deviations & down-right corruptions. That’s why modern Voodoo is full of “Mojo-bags” Spells, potions, shrunken heads, voodoo dolls & is considered African witch-craft. I believe, these corruptions were intentionally added (to the belief system) to further demonize African Culture.

Like with most religions, people are supporting an abbreviated version & do not know or understand the full spectrum. Marvel is way out-of line to merge the two practices just like anyone else that does the same.

Again, the original form of Vodun does not , I repeat, does not have deities. The word Vodun literally means "nature".

Agriculture is the closest thing to the origins of Vodun. Growing food was a science. AGRO- (land, ground, earth, field)  CULTURE= The beliefs & customs of a particular society, group, place, or time. Ways of life. Also means = worship, reverence, "the tilling of land," cultivating & honoring.

Marvel has a lot of nerve creating these characters. Maybe they didn’t know any better. Maybe they did. Most people don’t know, so I’ll give them a pass. Yes, Yoruba does have principals & acts of nature morphed into human (deity) form.

The Vodu- all look mulatto. The comic pages are ok. Nice art & the research is almost on point.  I could break-down Kemetic deities, too. Diversity? hhhmmmm



   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 27, 2014, 05:17:41 pm
Today, Voodoo has been laced with dozens of deviations & down-right corruptions. That’s why modern Voodoo is full of “Mojo-bags” Spells, potions, shrunken heads, voodoo dolls & is considered African witch-craft. I believe, these corruptions were intentionally added (to the belief system) to further demonize African Culture.




You're not the only one who believes that, APEXABYSS...

Behold!
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/ (http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on May 27, 2014, 05:59:53 pm
^^
Agreed. All religions have this issue.

Wow, just, wow! Amazing graphics & concepts. I keep forgetting how spectacular these video games have become.

The Storm solo series seems lame, now. (not mine, he-he) LOL

I hope Korean-born Greg Pak has half of that kind of imagination. BTW, I grew-up in a Korean house-hold, for several years. I can even make Kim-chi. Anyway ,Victor better get busy, too!

Goin’ back to watch the video, again. Gamsa-hapnida (thank you in Korean)

(http://media.blizzard.com/d3/media/artwork/artwork-witch-doctor02-large.jpg)

so bad but yet so good

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on May 28, 2014, 02:40:19 am
^^
Agreed. All religions have this issue.

Wow, just, wow! Amazing graphics & concepts. I keep forgetting how spectacular these video games have become.


so bad but yet so good





I agree.

The art direction is amazing, however, as you have eloquently pointed out, Vodun (Voodoo) is bastardized by American pop culture (and American politics) and as a result, you see material like...  the Witch Doctor in this video game that brings disease, infestation and wild creatures which is contrasted by the introduction of the Crusader, which is supposedly portrayed as a great white bastion of hope wearing heavy armor and brandishing sharp swords and tower shields.

Very obvious what's going on here.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 04, 2014, 07:47:21 pm


([url]http://media.blizzard.com/d3/media/artwork/artwork-witch-doctor02-large.jpg[/url])




If she wasn't the Chocolate Typhoid Mary? She could get it. I'd put her in that HEF thread for fooiiine sistahs and bruthas.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 04, 2014, 09:08:15 pm
Have we seen any artwork from the book yet?

Anyone have good samples of the artist's work?


http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53210 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53210)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 05, 2014, 04:33:14 am
Have we seen any artwork from the book yet?

Anyone have good samples of the artist's work?


[url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53210[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53210[/url])


Greg needs a little Seoul! Victor, I dig the art, but the scenario...


 :( :( :'(


Great, Storm’s gonna save the poor-poor people of the Caribbean from natural disasters. Didn’t see that coming! What a surprise! Oh yeh, and bustin‘-up bad guys.

Geez, more black victimization. When are they going to learn that black people aren’t always interested in someone coming to save them?

I see it as a form of “patronizing” or even “condescending”, on Storm’s part.

Please, Storm, give the people of the Caribbean back their dignity. Making Storm a “savior” (of Islanders) is cruel & unfair. Blood-Claat!

It’s Storm that needs rescuing.

 It’s not about big action & emotionality. It’s about intensity & creativity.

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liycu5Nfwp1qe6an0o1_1280.jpg)

^ this or that?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 05, 2014, 05:54:47 am
It’s not about big action & emotionality. It’s about intensity & creativity.

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liycu5Nfwp1qe6an0o1_1280.jpg[/url])

^ this or that?




Mmm-mm!
(http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/54.gif)♥♥♥♥♥♥♥~~~♥

I'll take 'em all!  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 06, 2014, 11:45:45 pm
It’s not about big action & emotionality. It’s about intensity & creativity.

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_liycu5Nfwp1qe6an0o1_1280.jpg[/url])

^ this or that?


NOT IF I BEAT YOU TO IT!!

You realize that those beautiful sistahs are reading this post and will slap the teeth out of either or both of us if we came at them and said anything, right? Lol.

Mmm-mm!
([url]http://media.ign.com/boardfaces/54.gif[/url])♥♥♥♥♥♥♥~~~♥

I'll take 'em all!  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 07, 2014, 09:52:23 am
The one that is looking at me I prefer. Yea I said it she is looking at me. LOL
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 18, 2014, 07:37:22 am
Acceptable http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 18, 2014, 02:38:42 pm
Acceptable [url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url])


Acceptable what?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 19, 2014, 01:02:24 pm
Acceptable [url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url])


Acceptable what?



It's Forge aka the safe bet aka the black guy in a 80's comedy

Storm fans won't complain when he's colored to look like a white male, probably won't be a sexual relationship so there's no threat there even with Logan in the picture and ultimately no one at the x-office gives a damn about Forge so there's no threat to her "ranking" and possibly being over shadowed
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 20, 2014, 08:42:25 am
I used to think Forge was afro Cuban. I'd rather seen Storm with a woman but Forge would be acceptable to most.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 20, 2014, 07:00:24 pm
My apologies. I understand there may be some collateral damage.

Kings & Queens do not divorce. All royalty comes out of Africa- it is an African concept.

remember this...
person of the year 2011 "THE PROTESTOR"
 

(http://i1.cdnds.net/11/50/618x825/media_times_magazine_protester.jpg)


Time editor Rick Stengel said that The Protester was chosen for "steering the planet on a more democratic though sometimes more dangerous path for the 21st century".

He said that demonstrations have occurred this year in countries with populations... , and the word 'protest' has appeared in newspapers and online "more this past year than at any other time in history".

"Everywhere, it seems, people said they'd had enough. They dissented; they demanded; they did not despair, even when the answers came back in a cloud of tear gas or a hail of bullets,"



{ :o }

think about it!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 22, 2014, 03:19:39 pm
I used to think Forge was afro Cuban. I'd rather seen Storm with a woman but Forge would be acceptable to most.

Why would you rather see Storm with a woman.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 22, 2014, 04:04:04 pm
I used to think Forge was afro Cuban. I'd rather seen Storm with a woman but Forge would be acceptable to most.

Why would you rather see Storm with a woman.

Agreed. Storm is straight. There are some Storm fans who want Storm to be bisexual. I don't think its a natural fit for her and I think it holds the potential of doing her character irreparable harm. Storm is really Marvel's iconic female character. Its not Carol Danvers, no matter how much Marvel tries to push it. This is a very controversial issue for today and I would consider it to be very racist of Marvel to make Storm into a lesbian or bisexual. The reason I call it racist is they are not willing to make this move with big named White characters like Iron Man, Captian America, Thor or Peter Parker Spider Man out of fear of the harm it would do them, so why do it to the most prominent Black character/character of color in the whole history of comics? If Marvel were to do this with Storm, they would try and promote it as them being "progressive" by touting how they are making this epic character a part of the LGBT community. In reality, it would be them using her as a guinea pig since they don't want to take the risk with a very prominent White character. I say, let them make Carol Danvers or Steve Rogers or Tony Starks gay if their aim is to make a major character gay. There is a reason why Marvel and DC don't make give their flagship characters this kind of sexual orientation.

A few years ago, there was talk of doing an X-Men movie spin-off on Storm. If they made her gay in the comics, it would be all over the media if the idea of a movie ever saw the light of day. People will be talking about a superhero movie coming out featuring a gay character lead. Many parents will not take their kids to see the movie and many others will be turned off by the idea completely. Even outside of comicbook movies, in mainstream society, you don't see gay movies out in the theaters. People know a movie centered on a gay character will by no means compete in box office sales with comparable films about heterosexual characters.

By keeping Storm with men, she will appeal to a much broader range of audiences. It good for business and I think its a horrible idea to try and make her the "ultimate minority": Black, female, LGBT.  I believe a move like this would permanently regulate Storm to second string character status.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 23, 2014, 07:22:32 am
I think Storm is definitely bisexual and this isn't me projecting its always been part of her presentation. Even Hudlin shaded her and Yuriko.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: JRCarter on June 23, 2014, 07:26:06 am
I think Storm is definitely bisexual and this isn't me projecting its always been part of her presentation. Even Hudlin shaded her and Yuriko.

You mean Yukio. Yuriko is a different character, entirely.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 23, 2014, 02:09:20 pm
Just like a Storm fan to throw shade on another female that doesn't inhabit the x-world
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: JRCarter on June 23, 2014, 04:36:22 pm
Just like a Storm fan to throw shade on another female that doesn't inhabit the x-world

I meant as in Yuriko Oyama a.k.a. Lady Deathstrike.

And I'm not really much of a Storm fan these days.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 23, 2014, 05:37:34 pm
Talking about Rut throwing Carol Danvers under the bus, Rut's thirst is very strong
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: JRCarter on June 23, 2014, 05:43:21 pm
Talking about Rut throwing Carol Danvers under the bus, Rut's thirst is very strong

Oh. My bad.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 24, 2014, 12:41:34 am
I think Storm is definitely bisexual and this isn't me projecting its always been part of her presentation. Even Hudlin shaded her and Yuriko.

You mean Yukio. Yuriko is a different character, entirely.
I tend to confuse those two.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 24, 2014, 05:54:34 am
It's funny you say that about Storm but at the same time she rarely had any appearances outside of the x-verse until she got married. Showing up with the X-Men don't count
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 24, 2014, 12:42:35 pm
Acceptable [url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url])


Absolutely. FAR better to be with a man who left you sobbing on a floor while he stood over you, berating you. At least he's not black!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 24, 2014, 12:55:18 pm
Talking about Rut throwing Carol Danvers under the bus, Rut's thirst is very strong

Hey, look, if this is done to ANY major flagship character from Marvel or DC, the company would more than likely be throwing that character under the proverbial bus. I don't think its a good idea to do to any large, iconic character, however, if Marvel is going to do it to an icon, there are lots of Carol Danvers out there and lots of Steve Rogers, but only one character of color with the iconic stature of Ororo Munroe. She should be protected. Don't take these kinds of chances with her. Don't make her the guinea pig. Better it be done to Carol or Tony Stark than Storm.

Regarding Storm/Forge, much as I don't care for it, Storm and Wolverine are an item right now. Given that Forge is slated to appear in Storm's book in September, the month Logan dies, maybe he does so to console her? I don't know. I don't like him. That said, Storm is too good for Forge. He's a crusty old man who needs to find a woman in his own age group who is just as ugly and wrinkly as he. Putting Storm with Forge is like driving a Lexus through a jungle. The natives just can't appreciate it.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 24, 2014, 05:29:52 pm
Storm ain't iconic, she ain't a flagship, she ain't a goddess

She's a mutant aka a X-Man and when Marvel tried to move her beyond that "fans" like yourself threw a hissy fit and Marvel stopped and she became a non factor as they went with other X-Men. No one else is to blame, not Carol, not T'Challa, not Wanda, not Jen Walters, not Elektra only those who wanted the same old stuff.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 24, 2014, 09:04:41 pm
Storm ain't iconic, she ain't a flagship, she ain't a goddess

She's a mutant aka a X-Man and when Marvel tried to move her beyond that "fans" like yourself threw a hissy fit and Marvel stopped and she became a non factor as they went with other X-Men. No one else is to blame, not Carol, not T'Challa, not Wanda, not Jen Walters, not Elektra only those who wanted the same old stuff.


Unfortunately...except for the zinger thrown at Rutog98...I agree with this.

Ororo SHOULD BE thee TOP FEMALE HEROIN in ALL of the MU. She is NOT. That's the purview of Carol Danvers or Valkyrie...or they might bring back The Celestial Madonna. And even Gamorra is likely to get the nod before Ororo. Although Ororo and Monica Rambeau should be in the short list of Top 4 MU Females. And there's no way you can list Top 4 MU Females without listing Sue Richards.

 

Acceptable [url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url] ([url]http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?pid=22766&disp=ilib&oty=1&oid=53490[/url])


Absolutely. FAR better to be with a man who left you sobbing on a floor while he stood over you, berating you. At least he's not black!

Double damn triple damn true. I mean...I hated what Forge did to Storm. She should stuff a sleet and hail storm up his native parts.

It's funny you say that about Storm but at the same time she rarely had any appearances outside of the x-verse until she got married. Showing up with the X-Men don't count


You are DEAD ON correct. But. They Tea Party'd RH for bringing Ororo to the forefront again.



Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 24, 2014, 10:56:49 pm
When I said that Storm is really Marvel's top female, I made the statement because she is their most recognizable female character to the world at large. Marvel may try and promote Carol Danvers or somebody else, but the everyday person would know Storm way before they would recognize the others.

As a side note, one thing Greg Pak said in an interview that got me excited was he proclaimed Storm to be the most powerful female character in Marvel. I just thought it was awesome that he felt that way. :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 24, 2014, 11:00:06 pm
Storm ain't iconic, she ain't a flagship, she ain't a goddess

She's a mutant aka a X-Man and when Marvel tried to move her beyond that "fans" like yourself threw a hissy fit and Marvel stopped and she became a non factor as they went with other X-Men. No one else is to blame, not Carol, not T'Challa, not Wanda, not Jen Walters, not Elektra only those who wanted the same old stuff.

First off, I thought the marriage between Storm and T'challa had a lot of potential. I did not throw a fit about it though I complained about the mini and how the characters were just thrown together without any realistic build up to marriage.

That said, Storm's role is stepping up. She's being primed to take Wolverine's place when he dies in Wolverine and the X-Men, she's getting her own solo and she's a member of "Amazing X-Men" authored by Chris Yost who has a great love for the character and writes her well. She went through a slump, but she's coming out of it.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 25, 2014, 04:06:25 pm
Quote
That said, Storm's role is stepping up. She's being primed to take Wolverine's place when he dies in Wolverine and the X-Men, she's getting her own solo and she's a member of "Amazing X-Men" authored by Chris Yost who has a great love for the character and writes her well. She went through a slump, but she's coming out of it.
A 30+ year slump?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 25, 2014, 05:30:40 pm
Quote
That said, Storm's role is stepping up. She's being primed to take Wolverine's place when he dies in Wolverine and the X-Men, she's getting her own solo and she's a member of "Amazing X-Men" authored by Chris Yost who has a great love for the character and writes her well. She went through a slump, but she's coming out of it.
A 30+ year slump?


That's Rut, a contradicting post at every turn

"I don't throw shade"

Then throws shade in the next post

The thirst is real
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on June 25, 2014, 05:44:12 pm
When I said that Storm is really Marvel's top female, I made the statement because she is their most recognizable female character to the world at large. Marvel may try and promote Carol Danvers or somebody else, but the everyday person would know Storm way before they would recognize the others.

As a side note, one thing Greg Pak said in an interview that got me excited was he proclaimed Storm to be the most powerful female character in Marvel. I just thought it was awesome that he felt that way. :)

I wonder if Black Widow is now more recognizable after the Avengers, Iron Man and Cap movies and cartoons than Storm.  If there is a premiere female hero in Marvel, it is Black Widow, not Captain Marvel or Storm.   After all, Black Widow became actually got a team-up animated movie; a higher profile than Storm ever had.  (And for some reason Punisher is being pushed in these animated movies too; first teaming up with Iron Man (and Black Widow is in that animated video too, and now he team up with Black Widow.)  She's so popular, there is talk of a solo movie for her. 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 25, 2014, 07:00:14 pm
Quote
That said, Storm's role is stepping up. She's being primed to take Wolverine's place when he dies in Wolverine and the X-Men, she's getting her own solo and she's a member of "Amazing X-Men" authored by Chris Yost who has a great love for the character and writes her well. She went through a slump, but she's coming out of it.
A 30+ year slump?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 25, 2014, 11:29:41 pm
When I said that Storm is really Marvel's top female, I made the statement because she is their most recognizable female character to the world at large. Marvel may try and promote Carol Danvers or somebody else, but the everyday person would know Storm way before they would recognize the others.

As a side note, one thing Greg Pak said in an interview that got me excited was he proclaimed Storm to be the most powerful female character in Marvel. I just thought it was awesome that he felt that way. :)

I wonder if Black Widow is now more recognizable after the Avengers, Iron Man and Cap movies and cartoons than Storm.  If there is a premiere female hero in Marvel, it is Black Widow, not Captain Marvel or Storm.   After all, Black Widow became actually got a team-up animated movie; a higher profile than Storm ever had.  (And for some reason Punisher is being pushed in these animated movies too; first teaming up with Iron Man (and Black Widow is in that animated video too, and now he team up with Black Widow.)  She's so popular, there is talk of a solo movie for her.

Okay, I must say...imo Widow is long overdue for movie props. She is just brimming with possibilities. I'm still disgusted that Marvel managed to screw up on ELEKTRA THE WAY THAT THEY DID. And I have to say that I forgot about Widow's recent explosive popularity due to the Avengers movies and had no idea about the animated stuff.

And THE TASKMASTER should be Marvel's Deathstroke.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 26, 2014, 01:50:27 am
http://marvel.com/files/podcasts/mcom_this_week_marvel_now_storm.mp3 (http://marvel.com/files/podcasts/mcom_this_week_marvel_now_storm.mp3)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 26, 2014, 08:52:30 am
I think the top woman character in Marvel right now is Black Widow and I love her movie presentations.She is competent and formidable even with no powers and I love that . No shade (as she is certainly a favorite of mine) but Storm is a Black (black-ish )chick with white hair so of course she's recognizable. As far as Forge goes...best thing I can say he's not Wolverine. Logan is my deal breaker on this book. I HATE them together...and is thought they were quits...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 26, 2014, 01:59:25 pm
http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html (http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html)


(http://38.media.tumblr.com/03c1577a5d01afa369089d8f466a148a/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o1_500.jpg)
(http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 26, 2014, 02:11:50 pm
^^^^^This is EXCITING! July 23rd can't get here FAST ENOUGH!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 26, 2014, 04:25:37 pm
[url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url])


([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/03c1577a5d01afa369089d8f466a148a/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o1_500.jpg[/url])
([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg[/url])


(http://i57.tinypic.com/sb5uu8.jpg)
(http://i41.tinypic.com/1zdu8wk.jpg)
(http://i61.tinypic.com/op8y86.jpg)

Business as usual.

Why am I not suprised at the continued anti-black male vibeonce again exhibited by the X-Office and Greg Pak, their latest Kool Aid inductee.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 26, 2014, 07:33:44 pm
"But Greg Pak won't write Africa as being a land of savages cause you know he too is a man of color"

"Fans" really got what they wanted her being a nothing like them African savages and more men of color emasculation, I am shocked they haven't tagged Tyler Perry to do a Storm mini

Madea Goes To The JGS
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on June 27, 2014, 02:37:38 am
It's the only way to see black males in an X-book. Villianified. Anytime I've ever seen a x-story that for whatever reason, sends them Africa, we always get the same ish. I will not be supporting this book, just like I haven't bought any X book in the past ten years (aside from AvX, those two issues linked to The story Reggie wrote early in his run and that X-annual right before the wedding).

I'd rather read a book about Monica/Spectrum. She's been awesome in MA.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 27, 2014, 06:08:25 am
Oh giddy Storm is fighting African militias again. Next arc she'll fight a possessed character from the shadow king.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 27, 2014, 07:45:22 am
Oh giddy Storm is fighting African militias again. Next arc she'll fight a possessed character from the shadow king.





(http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g22/hollyeclark1/f4363e34.gif)(http://www.hudlinentertainment.com/smf/Themes/default/images/post/thumbup.gif)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: JRCarter on June 27, 2014, 09:23:15 am
Oh giddy Storm is fighting African militias again. Next arc she'll fight a possessed character from the shadow king.

Before or after she suckerpunches T'Challa?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 27, 2014, 10:11:57 am
Oh giddy Storm is fighting African militias again. Next arc she'll fight a possessed character from the shadow king.

Actually, she's in the Caribbean, not Africa. Secondly, you (and the others) had no problems with Storm fighting rogue African militants when BP was trying to get her to marry him, but now, all of a sudden, you do. Stop with the double standards, guys. This is getting old.

Seriously, Storm and the Black Panther broke up. You people are complaining about all the shots taken at T'challa after the break up, yet Storm was treated WORSE at the beginning of the whole project to bring the two characters together and you guys have no problems with that.

In real life, one of the major issues in the Black community has to do with Black women complaining about how Black men don't respect them. There is a lot of merit to this as well. Indeed, many Black women are now dating White men because of this and are being treated better by White men in those relationships than the Black men treated them when they dated Blacks. I hope we are not seeing a microcosm of that here. I hope this is not the mentality being shown by some of you (not all of you), but its starting to look that way.

Lets put things in perspective, the shots T'challa took after the marriage was done is NOTHING compared to the way Storm was disrespected at the beginning of the marriage project. Some of you on here (Black men, at that) are even hoping for Storm to be humiliated by a White woman in the relationship department concerning Wolverine which totally flies in the face of the rhetoric you guys are spewing here...which makes it just that, rhetoric.  So, let me get it straight, its okay for Storm to be disrespected because she is a Black woman, but not T'challa because he is a man?

Most of you guys on here are simply trying to hide behind race issues on this. Its just a stick you try and use to attack Marvel for breaking up Storm and T'challa. Stop being pretenders on this. If you were real about your "concern" in the treatment of Black characters, you would have shown this same outrage when Storm was being disrespected in that Dickey mini and everything. I mean, what Dickey basically said in his mini in having Ororo and T'challa have sex as children is that Black girls are whores. He glorified this in his story and portrayed it as being something epic. This is made worse by the fact Storm was 12 and T'challa 16 in that abominable mini. That story also devalued Storm in many other ways as well. To top all of this off, Dickey didn't do this to just any Black female character, but a Black woman who was put on a pedestal even above her White female counterparts for many years by the writer who wrote the original Storm/T'challa story. Storm was untouchable and almost beyond mortal men in the way she was originally portrayed. I remember an e-mail I got from Claremont years ago during the whole "Invasion Arc"  in X-Treme X-Men where Khan wanted to marry Storm. CC said to me" What's a girl to do? This man likes her, but she has no interest in him. Problem with pairing Storm in a relationship is nobody is good enough for her." See how she was put up on a pedestal? And then, Dickey did this thing in the mini. No outrage on the part of many of you about any of this who are complaining about stuff now.  Also, there are a few examples early on in the marriage where Storm lost her voice. She lost that indomitable, independent spirit that is her trademark. Of course, some of these issues got better over time.  The true victim of the whole thing is Storm, not T'challa as the atrocities visited upon her character were much worse than this pettiness about her making unflattering comments about him after the annulment.

Personally, I think its a good thing that the two were broken up as her character was being hurt by the marriage. She was being held back A LOT. Don't wanna except this? Try this on for size, even when T'challa was put out of commission by Dr. Doom, it was Shuri who got the shine instead of Storm. In other words, Storm played second fiddle to a third string character. She would have continued to play second fiddle in this book, too, as the precedence had been established for this with the Shuri thing. I mean, Shuri? Really? There was a lot of potential with this marriage, but it was screwed up. That's just reality.

Finally, Storm is getting her own ongoing. Finally, she has the opportunity to shine like never before. Also, she is going to fight White characters in her book and not only Blacks, so its not a slight on Blacks that she is fighting dark-skinned characters in her title. Get over it. This book is a good thing and something that should be supported. If you really cared about Black characters, you people should be rooting for a well-written, successful book about the premier Black character in comicbook history. Black Panther has Black villains in his rogues gallery (Killmonger, Achebe anyone), but Storm can't have Black sparring partners?

Did the Storm/BP marriage need to end? The answer is a loud and resounding "YES!". Do I like the way the marriage was ended? No. However, you guys are getting petty. I mean, you make a mountain out of a mole hill. Take for instance what the Amazing X-Men Annual that came out earlier this month where Storm said she did not want or need T'challa's help to deal with a personal, family matter. You guys got all up in arms over that and overreacted. I already gave my counter to that with the T'challa/Doom situation where he told Storm not to interfere in that fight and also showed where Storm did the same thing to the X-Men when she confronted Candra in X-Men issues 60-61. However, even barring those facts, to get up in arms like you guys did because she said she didn't want or need T'challa's help was petty as that pales in comparison to the disrespect Storm's character endured on several different occasions.
Also, she is iconic. I don't care what anybody says. The X-Men books are Marvel's biggest book and Storm is the undisputed first lady of the X. She is large and in charge.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 27, 2014, 11:03:51 am

In real life, one of the major issues in the Black community has to do with Black women complaining about how Black men don't respect them. There is a lot of merit to this as well. Indeed, many Black women are now dating White men because of this and are being treated better by White men in those relationships than the Black men treated them when they dated Blacks. I hope we are not seeing a microcosm of that here. I hope this is not the mentality being shown by some of you (not all of you), but its starting to look that way.




Actually, one of the major issues in the Black community is economic inequality.

Domestic violence is simply a by-product of that major issue I just pointed out.  Every single ethnic group is affected by domestic violence.

Now, why and what you brought up has to do with the Storm comicbook folks here at HEF dread, is beyond me.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on June 27, 2014, 11:44:42 am
A few things, because though I don't agree with everything said in this thread and others, this argument is faulty:

One, the fact that it's in the Caribbean is even worse.  Because then they are putting African stereotypes in a region where it doesn't make sense.

Two, I don't think many people like Dickey's mini anyway.

Three, telling us who to support while throwing shade on Shuri.  Nice.  Didn't someone else bring this up with Carol?  I wouldn't bring up pettiness if you're going to do that, among other things.

Four, the pedestal is part of the problem with Storm's character.  That's not awesome, that's not humanizing; that's fetishizing, that's flattening the character, preventing her from being three-dimensional due to fan (and creator) idolizing.

Five, to address the fighting black people thing: yes, Black Panther has black villains.  But he lives amongst black people, his cast is predominantly black.  Storm is in a part of predominantly white cast, lives primarily in America, and only shows up to Africa as a savior, and nothing more till the marriage.  Now that it's over, it's back to doing exactly that: being a savior of the African peasants.  Doesn't sound like a great look right?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 27, 2014, 11:58:17 am
We're not REALLY doing the "white men/white women treat you better" mental illness because then I'm leaving and never coming back.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 27, 2014, 12:05:50 pm
Rut...you like Storm, looking forward to the book...enjoy it. Personally I like what I like and don't give a flying fcccc what folks think that aren't doing anything for me. It's really not that deep. Ill probably give it a chance but cot damn.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 27, 2014, 12:40:16 pm
I couldn't make it past the first sentence because I am literally lmao

And I thought "Miles Morales is a thug" would never be topped
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 27, 2014, 01:04:30 pm
Actually, she's in the Caribbean, not Africa. Secondly, you (and the others) had no problems with Storm fighting rogue African militants when BP was trying to get her to marry him, but now, all of a sudden, you do. Stop with the double standards, guys. This is getting old.

Wait what? What are you talking about? I am not bringing up anything about BP. And if she is "fighting Caribbean militants" to make me "feel better" then you are wasting your time bro/sis. There are no double standards. Same old tired ass story of her fighting militants and the shadow king. Based on what I am viewing all they need are some beggars praising her and generally being incompetent.  It is what it is. Sorry.


Seriously, Storm and the Black Panther broke up. You people are complaining about all the shots taken at T'challa after the break up, yet Storm was treated WORSE at the beginning of the whole project to bring the two characters together and you guys have no problems with that.
Again why are you bringing BP apart of the discussion? He has nothing to do with this. You're reaching.

In real life, one of the major issues in the Black community has to do with Black women complaining about how Black men don't respect them. There is a lot of merit to this as well. Indeed, many Black women are now dating White men because of this and are being treated better by White men in those relationships than the Black men treated them when they dated Blacks. I hope we are not seeing a microcosm of that here. I hope this is not the mentality being shown by some of you (not all of you), but its starting to look that way.
What in the hell? Now you're talking about BP and then suddenly "black women leave black men" because how they are treated? Isn't based on the choices some of those women made? Don’t bother trying to make up mess out of your ass as you come along like what you are doing now.

Lets put things in perspective, the shots T'challa took after the marriage was done is NOTHING compared to the way Storm was disrespected at the beginning of the marriage project. Some of you on here (Black men, at that) are even hoping for Storm to be humiliated by a White woman in the relationship department concerning Wolverine which totally flies in the face of the rhetoric you guys are spewing here...which makes it just that, rhetoric.  So, let me get it straight, its okay for Storm to be disrespected because she is a Black woman, but not T'challa because he is a man?

What in the hell are you whining about? Take your straw man somewhere.

Most of you guys on here are simply trying to hide behind race issues on this. Its just a stick you try and use to attack Marvel for breaking up Storm and T'challa. Stop being pretenders on this. If you were real about your "concern" in the treatment of Black characters, you would have shown this same outrage when Storm was being disrespected in that Dickey mini and everything. I mean, what Dickey basically said in his mini in having Ororo and T'challa have sex as children is that Black girls are whores. He glorified this in his story and portrayed it as being something epic. This is made worse by the fact Storm was 12 and T'challa 16 in that abominable mini. That story also devalued Storm in many other ways as well. To top all of this off, Dickey didn't do this to just any Black female character, but a Black woman who was put on a pedestal even above her White female counterparts for many years by the writer who wrote the original Storm/T'challa story. Storm was untouchable and almost beyond mortal men in the way she was originally portrayed. I remember an e-mail I got from Claremont years ago during the whole "Invasion Arc"  in X-Treme X-Men where Khan wanted to marry Storm. CC said to me" What's a girl to do? This man likes her, but she has no interest in him. Problem with pairing Storm in a relationship is nobody is good enough for her." See how she was put up on a pedestal? And then, Dickey did this thing in the mini. No outrage on the part of many of you about any of this who are complaining about stuff now.  Also, there are a few examples early on in the marriage where Storm lost her voice. She lost that indomitable, independent spirit that is her trademark. Of course, some of these issues got better over time.  The true victim of the whole thing is Storm, not T'challa as the atrocities visited upon her character were much worse than this pettiness about her making unflattering comments about him after the annulment.

More accusations of your ass? Fine I hated reading that trash of the book. The majority of the people I have read so far didn’t like it. You must have missed my post where I was trashing it myself.

For reference:
Just by going through this man's website; the books he writes has a tendency to deal with sex, cheating, and the drama that comes with it in some form or fashion. SMH. I haven't touched the book when I heard the announcement. Still makes me wonder how in the hell he got a glyph award


And

Im still trying to understand how a writer whom is known to write the "hood dramas" was even allowed to write the storm mini?


Also I was formerly a shareholder of Disney. I didn’t like how the brands were showing characters of color. So I got out. I got tired of putting money into an organization with their treatment. To add I took my money elsewhere. Right now Brandon Thomas’ Miranda Mercury has my interests more on a black heroine than Storm could ever bring in the table: (http://comicattack.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/MirandaMerc.jpg) Indy writer whom does good work.

Hell I also gave my money to Redjack’s book
(http://[url=http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/prodigal-620x250.jpg]http://www.firstcomicsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/prodigal-620x250.jpg[/url]) So basically I took “my money where mouth is” and it was elsewhere.

Personally, I think its a good thing that the two were broken up as her character was being hurt by the marriage. She was being held back A LOT. Don't wanna except this? Try this on for size, even when T'challa was put out of commission by Dr. Doom, it was Shuri who got the shine instead of Storm. In other words, Storm played second fiddle to a third string character. She would have continued to play second fiddle in this book, too, as the precedence had been established for this with the Shuri thing. I mean, Shuri? Really? There was a lot of potential with this marriage, but it was screwed up. That's just reality.

Who were doing the “screw-ups”? It certainly wasn’t Hudlin and it wasn’t McDuffie either. All Shuri was that she became BP that’s pretty much it. However you as a fan should be used to her “second fiddle” because she became betsy sidekick, lost the title of “leader” to Emma and hell even Jubilee had more cameo appearances outside of the x-verse.

Finally, Storm is getting her own ongoing. Finally, she has the opportunity to shine like never before. Also, she is going to fight White characters in her book and not only Blacks, so its not a slight on Blacks that she is fighting dark-skinned characters in her title. Get over it. This book is a good thing and something that should be supported. If you really cared about Black characters, you people should be rooting for a well-written, successful book about the premier Black character in comicbook history. Black Panther has Black villains in his rogues gallery (Killmonger, Achebe anyone), but Storm can't have Black sparring partners?
Read my point of buying black characters that isn’t from marvel earlier. 

Did the Storm/BP marriage need to end? The answer is a loud and resounding "YES!". Do I like the way the marriage was ended? No. However, you guys are getting petty. I mean, you make a mountain out of a mole hill. Take for instance what the Amazing X-Men Annual that came out earlier this month where Storm said she did not want or need T'challa's help to deal with a personal, family matter. You guys got all up in arms over that and overreacted. I already gave my counter to that with the T'challa/Doom situation where he told Storm not to interfere in that fight and also showed where Storm did the same thing to the X-Men when she confronted Candra in X-Men issues 60-61. However, even barring those facts, to get up in arms like you guys did because she said she didn't want or need T'challa's help was petty as that pales in comparison to the disrespect Storm's character endured on several different occasions.

Don’t put me in the category of “up in arms” just by you quoting my small line thinking I was apart of this camp. What does the marriage have anything to do with my point about her fighting “militia” and shadow king again? Elaborate

Also, she is iconic. I don't care what anybody says. The X-Men books are Marvel's biggest book and Storm is the undisputed first lady of the X. She is large and in charge.
Emma, Jean, Jubliee, Rogue, Pixie, hell even Magik. 


I don't really get why you had to place a serious attack on me based on my small comment. Sorry but your points don't fly and all your whining is a drag.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 27, 2014, 03:32:08 pm
Most of you guys on here are simply trying to hide behind race issues on this.


Either you're one of the "new blacks" or you're white. Either way, I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us here don't give 1/64th of a single f*ck what you think about our so-called racism. What the f*ck do you know about any of us, anyway?

Quote
Its just a stick you try and use to attack Marvel for breaking up Storm and T'challa. Stop being pretenders on this. If you were real about your "concern" in the treatment of Black characters, you would have shown this same outrage when Storm was being disrespected in that Dickey mini and everything.


We DID show outrage, Uncle Ruckus. *I* was the one leading the pack, calling for Eric Jerome Dickhead's head on a plate.

Quote
I mean, what Dickey basically said in his mini in having Ororo and T'challa have sex as children is that Black girls are whores.


Uh...no, that's what misogynist asshole like you took from it. A woman (or girl) having consensual sex with the man (or boy) she loves does NOT make her a whore. If anything, T'Challa came off as a man whore for mentioning that he'd slept with other women before her. I swear, you should be roundhouse kicked in the head for the stupid sh*t you say.

Quote
The X-Men books are Marvel's biggest book and Storm is the undisputed first lady of the X. She is large and in charge.


(http://medias.gifboom.com/medias/t_9370373bfbf84f2489e85eb777de90d3.jpg)

If STORM is the first lady of the X, I can't imagine how horrible the portrayal of the other X-Women are. Being the first lady of the X is like being the bottom bitch in a stable of whores. Is anybody even talking about this mini? Has it even come out? I haven't heard one thing about it.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 27, 2014, 05:22:13 pm
Rut...you like Storm, looking forward to the book...enjoy it. Personally I like what I like and don't give a flying fcccc what folks think that aren't doing anything for me. It's really not that deep. Ill probably give it a chance but cot damn.

Princesa,

The post was not directed at you. I made sure to say "some of you guys". You are not one of the people I was referring to. Regarding the other post you made, I'm going to say this and let it go: To me, one of the best kept secrets of the Black community is that Black woman. There is no woman in the world that is as nurturing, strong and sacrificing (where family is concerned) as that confident, strong Christian Black woman. While you have good women in every race, from my own personal observations, none compares to a special Black woman. To everyone, This is my opinion on the matter and it is fact as far as I am concerned. I am not interested in debating it because I am right. Case closed. Back to Princesa:  I say this because you mentioned in your post "White men/White women". While there are many good Black men out there as well, however, there is a problem in the community with quite a few Black men not showing Black women the respect they deserve. Its a huge enough problem that it is a concern for many Black women who are raising their voices about it. I'm merely pointing out a parallel here between real life and what appears to be going on here. Also, I don't believe that just because person is a certain skin color makes them a better choice for having a relationship with them. It has to do with the two individuals themselves.

Nobody that is hating on Storm now was hating on Panther when Storm was being disrespected way back when to prop him up. As a huge Storm fan myself, I didn't hate him either when she was being devalued to prop him. I blamed the writing, hoped things got better with time as I saw a lot of potential in the whole thing. Now, if a person is excited about Storm getting a shot at having her own book and wants to express that on this board, there is a faction of people here who want to ridicule you for it. Again, some people, not everyone. This is what I am getting at. If people don't want Storm to have her own book or if they are a hater of the character, why come to a thread about the book just to hate on her and hate on the title? This is not the thread for that.

 I don't know how to multi-quote people to respond to many different posts, so I'll respond to some of the points right now on this post.


First off, I did not bring up BP in this discussion. Others did when they posted scans of the BP/Storm fight in response to the preview pages from the upcoming "Storm" issue I presented. After that, it was followed by the same old rhetoric about the "X-offices don't respect Black men because Storm is fighting some Black criminals in her first issue and she punched BP in the face." What I am talking about is hypocrisy. People are inserting race into the break up between Storm and T'challa talking about how he is getting the shaft because he is a Black man and he is being disrespected as a Black man. This is a position that is tenuous at best, to be frank. The sale numbers of the BP book were on a sharp decline, Storm was made to play second fiddle to a third string character in the book when Shuri took over and as a result of poor characterization of Storm that took place at the beginning of the whole ordeal, many of her fanbase were very resentful of the marriage. Her role in the title was declining and her character held back. The marriage needed to end. I don't think anyone here disputes that the way the marriage ended was bad, however, to always insert race into anything having to do with Storm's book in a negative way to victimize Black men is tired and old. The hypocrisy comes in when these same passionate feelings/arguments were not made when Storm truly was being disrespected in many ways early on yet these same people were oblivious to that and offered praise for it when it happened. If they are going to keep pushing this racial thing with Black Panther, then I'm gonna call them on that...especially when they are bringing this negativity to a thread that is supposed to be an uplifting thread about Storm's upcoming book.

Back to you, Princesa, again, you were not in my thought when I made the comments I made. I realize you have some criticisms of much  of what has transpire in canon and I am not saying that they are completely unfounded. One thing I can say for you is you try and be fair. You are also able to see things from the perspective of a Storm fan and how her character was victimized in many ways while at the same time you try and see things from the BP side where things may have been unfair to his character. I think you try to be fair though I don't agree with everything you say (and you don't agree with everything I say...and that's cool). I hold Jenn in the same boat as you on this as well as some others. However, I have to be truthful to say that there is some major Storm hating going on with some of the people here and they are bringing that into a thread that is supposed to be positive where those of us who truly love the character and want the book to do well can come and give voice to their enthusiasm for the upcoming product.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 27, 2014, 06:29:47 pm
Rut...you like Storm, looking forward to the book...enjoy it. Personally I like what I like and don't give a flying fcccc what folks think that aren't doing anything for me. It's really not that deep. Ill probably give it a chance but cot damn.


Princesa,

The post was not directed at you. I made sure to say "some of you guys". You are not one of the people I was referring to. Regarding the other post you made, I'm going to say this and let it go: To me, one of the best kept secrets of the Black community is that Black woman. There is no woman in the world that is as nurturing, strong and sacrificing (where family is concerned) as that confident, strong Christian Black woman. While you have good women in every race, that none compares to a special Black woman. This is my opinion on the matter and it is fact as far as I am concerned. I am not interested in debating it because I am right. Case closed. I say this because you mentioned in your post "White men/White women". While there are many good Black men out there as well, however, there is a problem in the community with quite a few Black men not showing Black women the respect they deserve. Its a huge enough problem that it is a big concern for many Black women. I'm merely pointing out a parallel here between real life and what appears to be going on here. Nobody that is hating on Storm now was hating on Panther when Storm was being disrespected way back when to prop him up. As a huge Storm fan, I didn't hate him either. I blamed the writing and just hoped things got better. Now, if a person is excited about Storm getting a shot at having her own book and wants to express that on this board, there is a faction of people here who want to ridicule you for it. Again, some people, not everyone. This is what I am getting at. If people don't want Storm to have her own book or if they are a hater of the character, why come to a thread about the book just to hate on her and hate on the title? This is not the thread for that.

 I don't know how to multi-quote people to respond to many different posts, so I'll respond to some of the points right now on this post.


First off, I did not bring up BP in this discussion. Others did when they posted scans of the BP/Storm fight in response to the preview pages from the upcoming "Storm" issue I presented. After that, it was followed by the same old rhetoric about the "X-offices don't respect Black men because Storm is fighting some Black criminals in her first issue and she punched BP in the face." What I am talking about is hypocrisy. People are inserting race into the break up between Storm and T'challa talking about how he is getting the shaft because he is a Black man and he is being disrespected as a Black man. This is a position that is tenuous at best, to be frank. The sale numbers of the BP book were on a sharp decline, Storm was made to play second fiddle to a third string character in the book when Shuri took over and as a result of poor characterization of Storm that took place at the beginning of the whole ordeal, many of her fanbase were very resentful of the marriage. Her role in the title was declining and her character held back. The marriage needed to end. I don't think anyone here disputes that the way the marriage ended was bad, however, to always insert race into anything having to do with Storm's book in a negative way to victimize Black men is tired and old. The hypocrisy comes in when these same passionate feelings/arguments were not made when Storm truly was being disrespected in many ways early on yet these same people were oblivious to that and offered praise for it when it happened. If they are going to keep pushing this racial thing with Black Panther, then I'm gonna call them on that...especially when they are bringing this negativity to a thread that is supposed to be an uplifting thread about Storm's upcoming book.



Well, considering the fact that I was the individual who posted the pics of Storm physically assaulting T'Challa during AvX alongside the scans of the aforementioned Weather Witch laying the smackdown on even more Black men in the scans you posted earlier, suffice it to say that where you see the posibility of positive character progression for Storm as regards her solo book, I see nothing but the same, tired portrayal of Black men as the perrenial problem and despoilers of all that is good and wholesome.

Greg Pak has done nothing more than confirm that he is another cog in the anti-Black machine that the X-Office has been for quite some time now.

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On one hand, you rail against what you percieve as being torm hate running wild in this thread whilst you yourself engage in the denigration of a strong African female character in the person of Shuri.....

(http://i59.tinypic.com/169lwnd.jpg)

You're the only hypocrite posting delusional rubbish in this thread.

What you refer to as being "the race thing" is something that the likes of Don McGregor, Joe Quesada, Christopher Priest, Reginald Hudlin and the late great Dwayne McDuffie have all spoken out on but of course color blind individuals like yourelf find it easier to engage in misdirection and obsfucation as opposed to engaging in genuine discourse.

Carry on.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 27, 2014, 07:45:55 pm


Either you're one of the "new blacks" or you're white. Either way, I think it's pretty safe to say that most of us here don't give 1/64th of a single f*ck what you think about our so-called racism. What the f*ck do you know about any of us, anyway?


If STORM is the first lady of the X, I can't imagine how horrible the portrayal of the other X-Women are. Being the first lady of the X is like being the bottom bitch in a stable of whores. Is anybody even talking about this mini? Has it even come out? I haven't heard one thing about it.


The Storm ONGOING title (not mini) will be out July 27th.

In response to Storm not being iconic: Ororo is probably the most iconic woman from the Marvel Universe. We are used to seeing her as a warring character (even the name has a certain ring to it, "Storm"). However, her origins place her as a bringer of life in Africa rather than a violent warrior. ~Greg Pak

BAM!

There has been  A LOT of hype about this book on the internet. Here is an interview with Pak on the Storm book that just recently came out: http://marvel.com/files/podcasts/mcom_this_week_marvel_now_storm.mp3 (http://marvel.com/files/podcasts/mcom_this_week_marvel_now_storm.mp3)

Between 10:15 and 10:30 on the interview link, he states that Storm has the power to go toe-to-toe with any of Marvel's big guns. I don't care what any of you haters have to say, this man is singing my song and I am going to buy this book. Its going to rock and if you don't buy it, you'll just miss it.

Regarding the first thing you said, actually, I'm not a "new Black" as I've been Black all my life. I am the epitome of Blackness and you would do well to show some respect. You are probably still trying to find your way while I have grown up with the council of wise elders making me wise. When I speak on the subject, you should close your mouth, take out some pencil and paper and write down the words of wisdom as I impart them as you marvel at my awesome insights so you can grow out of your foolishness. I just scanned through the parts of my post that you responded to. I did not read your responses to most of them save the two that I've posted here. I did that because you are obviously disagreeing with me on what I said based on your opening response to me. There was no need to read your retorts since I am right in what I said which makes you wrong. You should be trying to learn from me all about Blackness because there is nothing you can tell me on the subject. That said, you obviously missed the jist of what I said by singling out the quote you responded to with your opening jab.

You're a hard-headed, stubborn person, but I'm in it for the long haul. Stick with me, Maxine, and one day you, too, will be wise. Educating you is hard work, but somebody's gotta do it.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 27, 2014, 07:57:07 pm
tl;dr

Cool story, bro. #aintnobodygottimefordat

Quote
You're a hard-headed, stubborn person

And you're Rutog98. I win by default.

Quote
, but I'm in it for the long haul. Stick with me, Maxine, and one day you, too, will be wise. Educating you is hard work, but somebody's gotta do it.

Hmmm...let's see. I hold an Associate of Science, an Associate of Arts in Teaching, a Bachelor of Arts and am one month from earning my Master of Science en route to another master's - this time, in education. I've been inducted into Phi Kappa Phi - oh, and I earned in my master's in one year, not two. I think I'm covered on the education front.

You, on the other hand, are merely a bourgeoisie Uncle Tom on the internet with terrible reading comprehension skills. You have nothing to teach me about anything for the sole reason that you simply aren't intelligent enough to do so. That has nothing to do with education. You're just dumb as hell, Rutog98. If nobody has told you that before now, consider this a favor. You say such asinine sh*t that I would LITERALLY pay money to see you smashed in the face with a glass bottle. sh*t, you make Flex Hectic look like Stephen Hawking.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 27, 2014, 08:06:06 pm
Her origin isn't even "hers". It's a shameless and blatant rip-off of Modesty Blaise's.

And pretty much any fictional character can be written to go toe-to-toe with anyone. Storm being constantly pedestaled and propped up as the exotic, token, black, weather based, female, version of Goku, whose-ethnicity-is-really-only-talked-about-to-show-how-bad-practically-all-other-black-people-are-in-contrast-to-her, just makes it easier than most. Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 27, 2014, 08:17:28 pm
Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.

And why the public was so enraged when she started f*cking a black man. It sullied her in their eyes. Rutting with some dude in a locker room to subconscious stick it to your ex - now THAT'S class.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 27, 2014, 08:27:00 pm
Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.

And why the public was so enraged when she started f*cking a black man. It sullied her in their eyes. Rutting with some dude in a locker room to subconscious stick it to your ex - now THAT'S class.

They were also enraged because "she and said black man had no prior romantic history and fell in love quickly". Unlike the now favored Forge. Who isn't a Native American that is always drawn to look like a 100% white guy, and who she had a long history with/spent a lot of issues with prior to their falling in....oh wait.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 28, 2014, 06:44:17 am
I don't know how to multi-quote people to respond to many different posts, so I'll respond to some of the points right now on this post.


First off, I did not bring up BP in this discussion. Others did when they posted scans of the BP/Storm fight in response to the preview pages from the upcoming "Storm" issue I presented. After that, it was followed by the same old rhetoric about the "X-offices don't respect Black men because Storm is fighting some Black criminals in her first issue and she punched BP in the face." What I am talking about is hypocrisy. People are inserting race into the break up between Storm and T'challa talking about how he is getting the shaft because he is a Black man and he is being disrespected as a Black man. This is a position that is tenuous at best, to be frank. The sale numbers of the BP book were on a sharp decline, Storm was made to play second fiddle to a third string character in the book when Shuri took over and as a result of poor characterization of Storm that took place at the beginning of the whole ordeal, many of her fanbase were very resentful of the marriage. Her role in the title was declining and her character held back. The marriage needed to end. I don't think anyone here disputes that the way the marriage ended was bad, however, to always insert race into anything having to do with Storm's book in a negative way to victimize Black men is tired and old. The hypocrisy comes in when these same passionate feelings/arguments were not made when Storm truly was being disrespected in many ways early on yet these same people were oblivious to that and offered praise for it when it happened. If they are going to keep pushing this racial thing with Black Panther, then I'm gonna call them on that...especially when they are bringing this negativity to a thread that is supposed to be an uplifting thread about Storm's upcoming book.
No you caught feelings and got mad it is what is. You can sit here and pretend that "I didnt bring up BP" even though in your post after my quote you talked BP numerous of times. Next your so called "facts" about black relationships comes out. As for the sales decline and the so called second fiddle who was at fault again? All I am seeing so far is your whining in why Storm wasn't in charge to possibly become BP herself.

Having the viewpoint of one writer stating "she is iconic" means nothing. Of course Pak is going to say that since he writing the dayum book. Why wouldn't he? It is marketing 101. The so called "high profile female heroine" after 30 years never had her own book. That's sad.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 28, 2014, 08:13:07 am
Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.

And why the public was so enraged when she started f*cking a black man. It sullied her in their eyes. Rutting with some dude in a locker room to subconscious stick it to your ex - now THAT'S class.

They were also enraged because "she and said black man had no prior romantic history and fell in love quickly". Unlike the now favored Forge. Who isn't a Native American that is always drawn to look like a 100% white guy, and who she had a long history with/spent a lot of issues with prior to their falling in....oh wait.


Yeap, folks now get selective about which story they wanna pay attention to from "almighty" Claremont
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 28, 2014, 10:18:15 am
Oh giddy Storm is fighting African militias again. Next arc she'll fight a possessed character from the shadow king.

Storm strolling airborne through the clouds attired in Jean Grey/X-Fan approved clothing: Check

Storm strolling airborne through the clouds still sporting her Wolverine-acquired/X-fan required Mohawk coiff: Check

Storm strolling airborne through the clouds likely reflecting on the fate of her Troll lover and still delivering the smackdown to recalitrant, reprobate ugly black males: Check

Meet the new Storm
Same as the old Storm
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on June 28, 2014, 10:51:25 am
"Epitome of Blackness"

Wow.  That has got to be in the list of ways not to build any good will. 


Nevermind telling a black woman to "show some respect" and "shut her mouth".  For someone talking about treasuring black women and how "some of us" are misogynist hypocrites, that's a very bad look. 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: A.Curry on June 28, 2014, 11:16:44 am
"Epitome of Blackness"

Wow.  That has got to be in the list of ways not to build any good will. 


Nevermind telling a black woman to "show some respect" and "shut her mouth".  For someone talking about treasuring black women and how "some of us" are misogynist hypocrites, that's a very bad look.

As much as Rutog seems to be going on some inane tangents and comes off a bit delusional, In his defense Maxine did say some pretty hardcore things to him...it's her choice and style but wishing violence on dude and cursing at him might be considered a pretty bad look too...not that she cares or even should.  Do you.

however, at RUTOG, dude, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish...one you opened a Storm Praise thread on a Black Panther Forum and message board so technically since she no longer has anything to do with the character it's a faulty judgement.  Two, what kind of praise did you plan on getting with fans on her knowing how they currently feel about the character and Marvel's treatment of the marriage?  I don't and haven't agreed with many posters on here and the only direct argument I had was with the Mohawk and its symbolism, but even though I don't agree I get why some are mad, especially with the weird way writers seem to still bring up the divorce. 

and your analysis of black male/female relationships had nothing to do with the overall point and was kinda uncalled for, though I think u bought it up as a petty attack to male posters on here. not too mention its pretty much misunderstood.  You haven't really touched upon the greater influences in society that in some ways drives us apart, though far from always.



Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 28, 2014, 11:20:17 am
"Epitome of Blackness"

Wow.  That has got to be in the list of ways not to build any good will. 


Nevermind telling a black woman to "show some respect" and "shut her mouth".  For someone talking about treasuring black women and how "some of us" are misogynist hypocrites, that's a very bad look.

Seriously? You've got to be the only person who read that post and not get the fact I was making light of her jab at me. I was totally making a joke and was waiting for her to respond to it so I could retort with, 'I know everything there is to know about Blackness, so u might as well stop fighting me, admit it and learn something. Nobody can tell me anything because I know. You're like that annoying big sister who can't stand that you've got a little brother who knows about these thing better than you, so you try and hide your jealousy of his insights by taking shots at him only to lose. Accept your fate, stop being stubborn and learn something. I have only your best interest at heart as I administer the master lesson on Blackness!"

Now, read that and the last post I made. Anyone who believes all hat about themselves earnestly is obviously a mental case. Does it sound serious or like a joke to you?  That said, though she doesn't know it, I actually like her though we are in disagreement on the idea of supporting Storm's book. Also, I know what her personality is like. I know she doesn't always come across sane. I  can have some fun while I'm at it poking at the hornet's nest and getting a tirade out of her while making light of what she says through selective reading of her posts. I've known her on boards before this one for years and we always got on well before the Storm solo. Trust me, she's taking this much more personal than I am
 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 28, 2014, 11:40:08 am
I used to think Forge was afro Cuban. I'd rather seen Storm with a woman but Forge would be acceptable to most.

Forge...an "Afro Cuban"  :)  The way his character was rendered... :D
Cuban? Perhaps. I didn't perceive much if any "Afro" active in his visible comicbook character DNA.

The course is inexorably set.

As surely as Hillary Clinton will succeed Barack Obama as President of These United States Of America, Ororo's roll in the hay with a female lover ( a non-so-called black female, of course...musn't offend the sensitivities of race/physical appearance concerned X-Fans), ... I say, as surely as we'll all be addressing Hillary Clinton as "Madam President", Ororo WILL have a scintillating, sensational scissoring session with a Caucasian, Asian, Latina but not a negress female.


And then her character will be killed off to engage in a threesome with the departed Jean Grey and the soon-to-be-departed Logan.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 28, 2014, 12:59:58 pm
Keep digging that hole

If this comic fails I can't wait for your post where you blame everybody else just like the x-board folks will
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Vic Vega on June 28, 2014, 01:41:15 pm
Never mind Black males, we haven't seen Storm in a friendship with any Black females since
the Stevey Hunter days 30 friggin years ago.

And since Stevey was more Kitty's friend, you could argue that she shouldn't even count.

Storm's realtionships with Black folks period outside of the Black Panther series, has been her saving hapless tribes folk from menacing Warlords. Even the recent Xmen annual stuck to this pattern.

Storm only returns to Africa to save her relatives who are tribesfolk (there are cities in Kenya) from a serial murderer with a grudge.

Male or Female, Storm in the Xbooks can only save other Black folk or beat them up. They aren't allowed to be her peers, or friends or lovers.

Bishop was retconned into being Australian, so the only countering evidence is Stevey Hunter, a 30 year old character who no longer appears in the Xbooks and Gentle, a sparsely appearing character who has been in outright limbo since Schism started.

People who care about how Black characters are portrayed in media might not have much to look forward to
with a Storm book.

Storm herself doesn't count, that is almost the whole point of her now.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 28, 2014, 02:46:42 pm
Well she did have dinner at a restaurant with Misty Knight (who I'm indifferent towards, at best), Colleen Wing, and Jean Grey....one time.

Other than that, drawing a blank.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 28, 2014, 03:57:09 pm
Whut the...?

Vic Vega posted this?

Vic Vega posted this!

Lest we forget...there was a period of enmity,  suspicion...possible envy between Ororo and Stevie Hunter where Kitty was concerned. Kitty wasn't a fan of the Mohawk and biker chick wardrobe either.

Storm's only acceptable "family" was that dysfunctional incestuous X-Men "family" where at least two of her "brothers" - Logan and Kurt - wouldn't have minded getting into her panties. Logan eventually succeeded. Meanwhile, Ororo's U.S. biological family was a crack house until Hudlin straightened out that mess.

Ororo isn't "black".
Ororo is a pot of gumbo.


Never mind Black males, we haven't seen Storm in a friendship with any Black females since
the Stevey Hunter days 30 friggin years ago.

And since Stevey was more Kitty's friend, you could argue that she shouldn't even count.

Storm's realtionships with Black folks period outside of the Black Panther series, has been her saving hapless tribes folk from menacing Warlords. Even the recent Xmen annual stuck to this pattern.

Storm only returns to Africa to save her relatives who are tribesfolk (there are cities in Kenya) from a serial murderer with a grudge.

Male or Female, Storm in the Xbooks can only save other Black folk or beat them up. They aren't allowed to be her peers, or friends or lovers.

Bishop was retconned into being Australian, so the only countering evidence is Stevey Hunter, a 30 year old character who no longer appears in the Xbooks and Gentle, a sparsely appearing character who has been in outright limbo since Schism started.

People who care about how Black characters are portrayed in media might not have much to look forward to
with a Storm book.

Storm herself doesn't count, that is almost the whole point of her now.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 28, 2014, 04:51:08 pm
Well she did have dinner at a restaurant with Misty Knight (who I'm indifferent towards, at best), Colleen Wing, and Jean Grey....one time.

Other than that, drawing a blank.

Who remembers the time when Cecelia Reyes addressed Ororo as "Sista" only to have Ororo inform her that she was NOT her sista, sister or any such?

Cece wasn't "family material" as far as patchwork quilt Storm was concerned.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 28, 2014, 06:02:51 pm
Well she did have dinner at a restaurant with Misty Knight (who I'm indifferent towards, at best), Colleen Wing, and Jean Grey....one time.

Other than that, drawing a blank.


Who remembers the time when Cecelia Reyes addressed Ororo as "Sista" only to have Ororo inform her that she was NOT her sista, sister or any such?

Cece wasn't "family material" as far as patchwork quilt Storm was concerned.


Ororo as written for much of her existence (pre-Christopher Priest, Reginald Hudlin and Dwayne McDuffie) has always been portrayed as being "above" her innate Africaness because most of the X-writer who've chronicled her exploits have mostly been obsessed with hyping up her exotic mutant status above everything else.

The fact that every other prominent X-man's heritage and ethnic background has been celebrated whilst Storm' has been all but buried, is an irony that's obviously lost on the singular imbecile posting in this forum who finds it convenient to run his mouth about people "hiding behind race" to point out the clear racial agenda that Storm's character is being used to push in the X-books.

Ororo was a joke before Reginald Hudlin introduced her into the Black Panther mythos and she's now an even bigger joke since being returned to the X-book segregationist ghetto.

All day, every day.

(http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 28, 2014, 07:38:32 pm
Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.

And why the public was so enraged when she started f*cking a black man. It sullied her in their eyes. Rutting with some dude in a locker room to subconscious stick it to your ex - now THAT'S class.

They were also enraged because "she and said black man had no prior romantic history and fell in love quickly". Unlike the now favored Forge. Who isn't a Native American that is always drawn to look like a 100% white guy, and who she had a long history with/spent a lot of issues with prior to their falling in....oh wait.



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You and Maxine served that whole argument with a hood style two piece.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 28, 2014, 08:30:00 pm
As much as Rutog seems to be going on some inane tangents and comes off a bit delusional, In his defense Maxine did say some pretty hardcore things to him...it's her choice and style but wishing violence on dude and cursing at him might be considered a pretty bad look too...not that she cares or even should.  Do you.


The difference is that 1) I don't care how I look, and 2) I'm not trolling a board trying to put some uppity black bitch in her place. Rutog98 is free to be as dumb as he pleases as long as he doesn't mind being HEF's resident f*ckboy.

"Signs you may be a f*ckboy with Professor Houseshoes" | Best Buds Show (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-pisqCkQFY#ws)

As for Storm not having any black friends...in fairness, there aren't a lot of black people in the X-Fandom. She's been seen with a number of them a number of times - or at least as many times as you'd expect in a comic where virtually none of them are actually in the book. I also agree that Storm's blackness is a bit of a joke, but Storm more than likely sees herself as a mutant first, a black woman second/third. We know how much she loves Kenya - remember those HIDEOUS African get-ups she used to be drawn in? It's like...Storm is what white people think elegant black people should be. They think it's a compliment, the way they depict her. Kind of like when white people talk about how articulate they are. You know they mean well, but it still bugs like hell.

That said, though she doesn't know it, I actually like her though we are in disagreement on the idea of supporting Storm's book.


Liking somebody who doesn't like you in the slightest makes you the f*ckboy of all f*ckboys. Nobody better say sh*t to me again about how I treat this jackass. Dude's giving me Flex Hectic tease. *deep shudder*

Quote
I can have some fun while I'm at it poking at the hornet's nest and getting a tirade out of her while making light of what she says through selective reading of her posts.


See, it's posts like this that give away your dudebro status. I'm not a thing to be poked or riled, and I don't dislike you because of the Storm book. I dislike you because you're n obsessed bootlicking Uncle Tomming troll who publicly declares that he likes somebody who has made it more than clear that she doesn't like you.

Now, I'll call you an obsessed bootlicking Uncle Tomming troll in a heartbeat, but it's not to make you mad or because I think it's fun. I'll call you an obsessed bootlicking Uncle Tomming troll  because I think you are a bootlicking Uncle Tomming troll. How you feel about it doesn't mean sh*t to me. That's the difference between you and I.

You, on the other, enjoy the idea that you are pissing me off or that I'm taking things personally. This is as is disturbing as it is egocentric. (Because really, who the f*ck ARE you? I thought you were a white woman before now.) We've had far, FAR better trolls here than you, Rutog98, although not nearly as long-winded and bombastic. Just to make this clear, Rutog98, you realize that you genuinely creep me out, right? That I would lock the door and dial 9-1 on my phone with my finger hovering over the second 1 if you were walking down my street? You are the very epitome of a nice guy (http://www.gradientlair.com/post/67693950559/no-country-for-fake-male-feminists), and I'm not the only one who sees it. I didn't even have to expose you as a f*ckboy - you did it yourself. Like I said...you're stupid as hell.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 28, 2014, 11:26:13 pm

Ororo as written for much of her existence (pre-Christopher Priest, Reginald Hudlin and Dwayne McDuffie) has always been portrayed as being "above" her innate Africaness because most of the X-writer who've chronicled her exploits have mostly been obsessed with hyping up her exotic mutant status above everything else.

The fact that every other prominent X-man's heritage and ethnic background has been celebrated whilst Storm' has been all but buried, is an irony that's obviously lost on the singular imbecile posting in this forum who finds it convenient to run his mouth about people "hiding behind race" to point out the clear racial agenda that Storm's character is being used to push in the X-books.

Ororo was a joke before Reginald Hudlin introduced her into the Black Panther mythos and she's now an even bigger joke since being returned to the X-book segregationist ghetto.

All day, every day.

([url]http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg[/url])



I was gonna post the video for MC Hammer's "Here Comes The Hammer" but that would be me just being mean
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 29, 2014, 12:24:30 am
Maxine, you're a basket case.  You're entertaining and you're a Storm fan at heart (though you don't like what's going on with the character right now...some of it, I agree with you). Knowing that your elevator doesn't go all the way up makes it easy to dismiss the things you say. It also makes your posts entertaining to read when you're trying to go at somebody. I can't believe some people let you get under their skin. That's what I meant when I said I liked you. You have entertainment value. Nothing else. The last thing I'm going to do is sit here and go full out against a female. Its not very masculine and its not worth it even if you were a man. That one of the reasons earlier in this thread when you were rude to me, I made a retort to you weeks ago that was harsher than I liked and then later kinda took it back. Seriously, you're wound so tight emotionally its a wonder you don't have high blood pressure or that you can actually function day to day with all of this emotional stuff you have going on. Its gotta be holding you back in life from focusing on some positive things you could do to better yourself in life. That said, in real life, I wouldn't have much to do with you. I prefer the company of people with class, no offense, but you need to wash your mouth out. ;) If you'll notice, in my posts, I NEVER use profanity. Not here, not on any board and not in real life.  I keep things clean, kosher and G-rated. That said, I now choose not to respond to any of you oafish posts. What would be the point of it? Also, I remember the photo you posted of yourself. You're not ugly, but you're my type...at all. So, no worries, I wouldn't be showing up on your doorstep for any reason whatsoever.

For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 03:07:26 am
I for one appreciate this Good Fellow's restraint.

That the Black Panther "ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond." is quite the earth shattering revelation.

.... >:(  shuddup you crickets! I can hear you chirping out there.

How nice it is to know that T'Challa ranks as yet another Marvel Comics writer's "also ran".

Jon Maberry loved writing Namor and loved writing Shuri.

T'Challa likely ranked fifth, sixth...errrummm...on Maberry's list of favorites. An "also ran".

Maberry ran "also ran" T'Challa outta town and into the ground.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 29, 2014, 03:40:36 am
It's like...Storm is what white people think elegant black people should be. They think it's a compliment, the way they depict her. Kind of like when white people talk about how articulate they are. You know they mean well, but it still bugs like hell.

Yeah, I've said on CBR a few times that Storm is like white people's idealized version of a black person. Contrast all her "safe extremes" with other black heroes. Then compare their levels of popularity with her's, how often they're used period, and how much hostility they generate when they often do anything impressive/of merit compared to Storm.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 29, 2014, 03:43:23 am
For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcFe2f0w7tLwRZvBo477uvWREHLrSIQTDSmkCE4StlJlsIkkE2) (http://black-face.com/images/Willie-Best-small.jpg)   (http://black-face.com/images/MantanMoreland-small.jpg)  (http://black-face.com/images/Billie-Buckwheat-Thomas-2x.jpg)  (http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/-_swtbIi2F0/mqdefault.jpg)
 (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7982JpZ1rZOx6EhDUVP7WTUPBno7A-5m2dv0MGOXsakNKbENx)  (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSZymkGKVTpXHc7FXwb4hloBw23mXk6zIhQXAJoCS_XHgxkiEV)  (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrieb6OUs4yCq4v2KRmI9RUt2MFvGqVYswoBdDifgeLAkUaJ5v)  (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRq4NXjTujdyshDgDZsmWNzedJ7dRy7359F0UWanBig2o_lqGy0)

[url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url])



([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg[/url])


Quit using blanket statements. You’re making accusations. It's rude! Address the arguments & not your made-up beliefs. I’ll hit you with an avalanche of historical facts to support any statement I make. That's not "knocking"... that's clear observation.   
 
Fact #1: Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Fact #2 : Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Keepin’ It Real” means being honest. The truth is essential when critiquing culture related issues.

Freedom of Speech & Expression for You, Max, Greg, Victor & everyone else. 

 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 04:13:55 am
Nicolas Sarkozy, now ex president of France divorced his wife.

Silvio Berlusconi, now ex Prime Minister of Italy -who once said something about President Obama "having a nice tan"...some such nonsense- divorced his wife.

6000 years of Royal marital excellence shot to hell.

I'll bet neither divorcee  engaged in hot sex with an ugly, hairy troll before the ink on their divorce decrees had dried. Storm stands alone in that regard.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 29, 2014, 04:44:24 am
That's what I meant when I said I liked you. You have entertainment value. Nothing else.


I wish I could say the same for you. If only you were actually funny, or intelligent, or even slightly coherent.

Quote
The last thing I'm going to do is sit here and go full out against a female. Its not very masculine and its not worth it even if you were a man.


"Female"? Female what? Female dog, female tiger...? Oh, you meant a woman. *scribbles in my Ashy Larry 101 (http://twitter.com/MaxineShawEsq/status/474297285170302976) book*

Quote
Seriously, you're wound so tight emotionally its a wonder you don't have high blood pressure or that you can actually function day to day with all of this emotional stuff you have going on. Its gotta be holding you back in life from focusing on some positive things you could do to better yourself in life.


"Emotional". Check. And the only thing I'm being held back from is potentially starting my 2nd master's in the fall...because I'm applying for a Ph.D. in Journalism at the one of the best journalism schools in the the country. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/22/best-journalism-schools-newspro-ranking_n_4490649.html) And you? #byefelicia

Quote
That said, in real life, I wouldn't have much to do with you. I prefer the company of people with class, no offense, but you need to wash your mouth out. ;)


Chastising my tone...check. *scribbles in my benevolent sexism (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/psysociety/2013/04/02/benevolent-sexism/) BTW, it sure is funny that you never check the men here on HEF about their behavior, or language or tone. But you have a special interest in me. Hmmm...can't imagine why. #broswillbebros

Quote
If you'll notice, in my posts, I NEVER use profanity. Not here, not on any board and not in real life.  I keep things clean, kosher and G-rated.


Tsk-tsking my language...check. (And who the f*ck cares?)

Quote
That said, I now choose not to respond to any of you oafish posts. What would be the point of it?


Good! Shows you might not be so stupid after all.

Quote
Also, I remember the photo you posted of yourself. You're not ugly, but you're my type...at all.


Freudian slip...check. (Don't worry, nobody believed you anyway.)

Quote
So, no worries, I wouldn't be showing up on your doorstep for any reason whatsoever.


"I want you to know that I, personally, do not find you f*ckable. That's something that you, as a "female", need to know." Check.

Lessee...you fall somewhere on the low side of the Bitch-o-Meter. High enough to be pitied and mocked, but not high enough to write home about. You need more people, bruh. Go through the archives or something - we've had far better misogynists than your whiny ass - and stop embarrassing yourself with this passive-aggressive "gentlemenly putdowns" sh*t.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 29, 2014, 04:48:48 am
I for one appreciate this Good Fellow's restraint.

That the Black Panther "ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond." is quite the earth shattering revelation.

.... >:(  shuddup you crickets! I can hear you chirping out there.


I believe I speak for most of us when I say...

(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5qf6bfjr71r3zat8.gif)

It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.


Argh, don't post that sh*t. Rutog probably jacks off to it every night. Besides, there's nothing wrong with being angry or negative about yet ANOTHER "Storm vs black people" story. I mean...they broke up the marriage for THIS sh*t?

I believe I was the poster way back in the day who was against a book and publicly admitted that I was wrong about it. Come to think of it, I think that's how I wound up registering at HEF. I talked a lot of sh*t, and came here to personally apologize to the dude for getting it all wrong. If I turn out to be wrong again, I'll do the same. But let's face it...we both know that I'm going to right, just like I was about all things Maberry. And I DID give half-props to EJD for the beautiful artwork in his book. I just wish he had understood the ramifications of what he was writing when he penned a 12-year-old having sex with a 16-year-old. You have to be aware of that kind of thing, and it can't be stressed enough that these sex scenes add absolutely nothing to the narrative. I mean, what on earth is going through a man's head when he thinks of all night f*cking and a pre-teen child?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 04:49:18 am
It's like...Storm is what white people think elegant black people should be. They think it's a compliment, the way they depict her. Kind of like when white people talk about how articulate they are. You know they mean well, but it still bugs like hell.

Yeah, I've said on CBR a few times that Storm is like white people's idealized version of a black person. Contrast all her "safe extremes" with other black heroes. Then compare their levels of popularity with her's, how often they're used period, and how much hostility they generate when they often do anything impressive/of merit compared to Storm.

During the days I trod the CBR lunatic landscape I was told more than once that Storm was not black...neither was Monet St Croix, and questions regarding C. Reyes race/ethnicity swirled like gnats in those foul confines. While many view Ororo as a multi-racial bisexual, her "blackness" has always been disputed. Which of course, is the reason why so many viewed her relationship with jet-black T'Challa with disdain.

Now...a Pew Study finds that the majority of Americans do not consider President Obama to be black. How many times has our President told the nation and the entire world to its face that he's a BLACK MAN?

If Ororo could speak for herself I'll tell you what she'd say...or sing, rather.

Running to T'Challa she'd sing: Rescue Me! Protect me in your arms. Rescue Me!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 29, 2014, 04:50:00 am
Nicolas Sarkozy, now ex president of France divorced his wife.

Silvio Berlusconi, now ex Prime Minister of Italy -who once said something about President Obama "having a nice tan"...some such nonsense- divorced his wife.

6000 years of Royal marital excellence shot to hell.

I'll bet neither divorcee  engaged in hot sex with an ugly, hairy troll before the ink on their divorce decrees had dried. Storm stands alone in that regard.
Fun!

Of course, It happens. Marriage is no longer sacred.  Still, dealing with percentages & not blanket statements, we’re talking about a very low single-digit percentile, in a 6000 year history. Heads of State, Royalty & marriage is an African tradition. They were the first to establish it. Fact!

The King of a sovereign African nation would not abandon his civic duty to up-hold that tradition. A writer for a fictional comic would. They couldn’t wait for her to leave Tchallah & drop her panties for Logan. African heritage is disregarded. You have to understand non-black-people have difficulty accepting the real history of Africa & ancestral glory. Fan-boy corruption!

Imagine if Obama & Michelle had a domestic dispute & then divorced. It wouldn’t happen. Why? That would taint & shame the legacy of the presidency.


Best example: Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie with Empress Menen Asfaw. 

Haile Selassie aka the KEBRA NEGUS meaning “Glory of The King” & aka NEGUS NAGAST meaning “King of Kings- Lord of Lords” for all you niggas!

Empress Menen Asfaw aka “Mother Mary”  & QUEEN-OMEGA meaning “The Last Queen of Queens”

King of Kings & Queen Omega represent the last true Royals.

 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 29, 2014, 05:11:15 am
During the days I trod the CBR lunatic landscape I was told more than once that Storm was not black...neither was Monet St Croix, and questions regarding C. Reyes race/ethnicity swirled like gnats in those foul confines. While many view Ororo as a multi-racial bisexual, her "blackness" has always been disputed. Which of course, is the reason why so many viewed her relationship with jet-black T'Challa with disdain.

Remember when they kept saying that she was biracial or some other stupid sh*t? Dude. Her mom is black. Her dad is black. She has, at a minimum three black grandparents. She's black. sh*t, she's blacker than most of us - 3/4 Kenyan and 1/4 whatever Storm's father is. ("Munroe" is a typical surname for blacks from the Louisiana/south Texas region.)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 29, 2014, 06:02:38 am


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

Argh, don't post that sh*t. Rutog probably jacks off to it every night. Besides, there's nothing wrong with being angry or negative about yet ANOTHER "Storm vs black people" story. I mean...they broke up the marriage for THIS sh*t?


that "bug-eyed" sh*t is border-line. angry or negative? whatever it may be, it's motivated by a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

he also said, "they needed to divorce..." ouch! screw legacy & let's get her a solo book. no! don't play with culture just to exploit storm for fan-boys.


Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Maxine Shaw on June 29, 2014, 06:11:32 am
that "bug-eyed" sh*t is border-line. angry or negative? whatever it may be, it's motivated by a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

Oh, I agree. What I was saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to be angry by such a lack of cultural sensitivity and negative portrayals.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 08:12:09 am

Fun!

Of course, It happens. Marriage is no longer sacred.  Still, dealing with percentages & not blanket statements, we’re talking about a very low single-digit percentile, in a 6000 year history. Heads of State, Royalty & marriage is an African tradition. They were the first to establish it. Fact!

I absolutely believe you and only mentioned those divorced Royalty/Heads Of State types ... frankly, because I didn't want a certain someone else to do so to "make a point".

Quote
The King of a sovereign African nation would not abandon his civic duty to up-hold that tradition. A writer for a fictional comic would. They couldn’t wait for her to leave Tchallah & drop her panties for Logan. African heritage is disregarded. You have to understand non-black-people have difficulty accepting the real history of Africa & ancestral glory. Fan-boy corruption!

THEY couldn't wait for her [Ororo] to leave T'Challa & DROP HER PANTIES FOR LOGAN!

Thank You!!! Some of us have said the exact same thing, though not as well as you have said it here which has lead to misunderstanding. We've made the mistake of speaking of this as though it was Ororo's decision to publicly humiliate T'Challa, as though it was T'Challa's decision to annul their MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY; some of us carelessly suggested that Ororo was sluttish to jump so quickly at the chance to bump uglies with Marvel's "Mr Ugly Man" himself. And yes...many of us did state at least once that Ororo is merely a comicbook character...fiction. It is the "writer for a fictional comic" who crafted the miserable mischief between Ororo and T'Challa and Ororo in particular who is responsible for this stimulating discussion we are all enjoying  ;D

These writers for fictional comics do so with the sensibilities of one particular segment of their audience in mind. It is from the same demographic so many of them hail from...to then sow their hell where so-called black comicbook characters are concerned. Those writers for fictional comics are largely white and male. White males. The industry is of white males, by white males; for white males. This like couldn't give two cents about African history. Who knows? T'Challa might have been created an African Prince not merely for the exotic possibilities the African continent presented, but because those whites didn't know much and didn't much like or respect the Africans (stolen Africans...or as they called us back then, negroes), living within their borders, nor did they know much about those Africans still living on the continent whom they didn't steal and enslave....the thing is, those writers for fictional comics probably thought that we "stolen Africans" didn't know much nor much care about the continental Africans either.

So, why not create an African prince hailing from a modern civilization unlike anything Africa or the world had ever seen...have them speak like Shakespearean actors...who'll know or care? Let's have some fun. Later, they would would create another African character...a female with long flowing white hair...her NATURAL hair...not a wig made from the hair of Asian women...possessed of unbelievable beauty and blazing blue eyes? Yeah, she's African. At least we'll say she's African.

That's how those writers for fictional comics think.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 29, 2014, 08:51:34 am
^ I agree but...

White males? Marvel is a company. I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I don't think it's white & black. I think it's comic nerds uniting. it's mutualism! It's a corrupt fan-boy agenda. Revenge of the nerds!

Paviitr Prabhakar (Peter Parker) Aunt Maya & Uncle Bhim?
(http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/images/spiderman_india/004.jpg)

Meera Jain? nice.
(http://www.comicbookreligion.com/imgr/Jain.jpg)

they could do the same for Ororo & Tchalla.

Switch (From The Matrix) "Not like this. Not like this--" 

Agent Smith "Never send a human to do a machines' job."
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 11:57:28 am
Again, you're right on point. Actually, I believe we're not that far apart in our opinion.

Marvel is a company

Indeed it is.

Quote
I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

Same here. We agree. Now then...who founded the company? Who were and are the...(for the want of a better word I can't seem to summon to mind at the moment)...who were and are the "preeminent", the dominant...the main "group" who are the movers and shakers of the company we know as Marvel Comics?

Quote
White males?

Yes, I'd say so. Who were those who at times subjected C. Priest to sneaky, indirect, often race-based "humor" while he was an employee of the company we know as Marvel Comics?

Quote
White males?

I'm afraid so. I do seem to recall kind words about Marie Severin...however, by and large, it seemed the Marvel "Bullpen" was at that time and could still be contaminated by a degree of racist bullshiznit.

Quote
I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I think this is great. The treatment of the hero's costume and the attention to detail respecting the common cultural aspects of the characters and the reading audience without seeming to be "over the top" is something not always evident in the U.S. "product". It's improved through the years, but I'm old enough to remember such characters as the Chinese villian "Yellow Claw" ...his skin was actually yellow, too  :) ...and the Native American superhero, "Red Wolf" and yes, his skin tone had a reddish tinge to it.

It was in this very forum I learned that T'Challa wears that cool full mask not for reasons of optimizing the dynamic effect of the best costume in comicbooks, but to cover his black face so as not to offend the company known as Marvel Comics' white readers who might not appreciate reading stories featuring a black champion. There are those types still today who aren't Panther fans, have never been and will never be Panther fans. Why not? we might ask. I think there are some who might say the character never appealed to them from a comicbook fan's standpoint. Acceptable. I'm not crazy about Hawkeye. Then, there are those who if they choose to be brutally honest about why they dislike T'Challa the Black Panther might say something like, "Because he's racist. Aren't the Black Panthers a racist hate group?", etc... Still others might simply find reading about black characters boring and uninteresting.

Comicbook "creators" aren't that much different from the fans they entertain. A fanboy "nerd" cum comicbook creator "nerd" isn't at all uncommon. There are many who are influenced by their personal preferences. The company isn't at fault for hiring talented individuals, but as you've said and which I've agreed to...those people working for the company can surely be blamed for a great deal of the culturally, racially insensitive rubbish some of us have seen over time.

I look at "Spider-Man" India...an alternate version of Spider-Man and think about another alternate version of Spider-Man, Miles Morales. The initial fanboy backlash against this character wasn't completely owing to the fact that Peter Parker had to die for Miles to exist. Morales' race and ethnicity had a great deal to do with the resentment.

Ororo Munroe, born of two so-called black parents appeared in a story where doctors examining her unconscious form could not discern her race nor her ethnicity. This story produced by the people working for the company known as Marvel Comics was then published by Marvel Comics and remains as a proof point buttressing the argument of those who still refuse to accept Storm as a black woman.





Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on June 29, 2014, 12:00:27 pm
For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

([url]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcFe2f0w7tLwRZvBo477uvWREHLrSIQTDSmkCE4StlJlsIkkE2[/url]) ([url]http://black-face.com/images/Willie-Best-small.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://black-face.com/images/MantanMoreland-small.jpg[/url])  ([url]http://black-face.com/images/Billie-Buckwheat-Thomas-2x.jpg[/url])  ([url]http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/-_swtbIi2F0/mqdefault.jpg[/url])
 ([url]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7982JpZ1rZOx6EhDUVP7WTUPBno7A-5m2dv0MGOXsakNKbENx[/url])  ([url]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSZymkGKVTpXHc7FXwb4hloBw23mXk6zIhQXAJoCS_XHgxkiEV[/url])  ([url]https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrieb6OUs4yCq4v2KRmI9RUt2MFvGqVYswoBdDifgeLAkUaJ5v[/url])  ([url]https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRq4NXjTujdyshDgDZsmWNzedJ7dRy7359F0UWanBig2o_lqGy0[/url])

[url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html[/url])



([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg[/url])


Quit using blanket statements. You’re making accusations. It's rude! Address the arguments & not your made-up beliefs. I’ll hit you with an avalanche of historical facts to support any statement I make. That's not "knocking"... that's clear observation.   
 
Fact #1: Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Fact #2 : Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Keepin’ It Real” means being honest. The truth is essential when critiquing culture related issues.

Freedom of Speech & Expression for You, Max, Greg, Victor & everyone else.


The people in the scans you used from the upcoming Storm book were not depicted as bug-eyed. I have not seen a single bug-eyed Black character in the x-books. Storm, Frenzy, Maggot, Bishop, Stevie Hunter, etc, none of them have been bug eyed.

Regarding your comment about "Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce...", I have to take issue on that. Henry the 8th, anyone?  In the olden days, one of the ways out of the marriage was through murder. Today is much improved, though murder still happens. Glad to see that Wakanda was depicted as a modern country instead of one stuck back in the stone age.

Here is the problem I am having: Many posters here seem to think that Blackness means Storm has to be married to Black Panther, a Black man. If she is with a White man, or a man of any other ethnicity, it makes her less Black. That is the vibe I am getting. To be honest with you, that kind of mentality is stupid and ignorant. Personally, I don't think Marvel's plan for breaking up Storm and T'challa was to put her with Logan. While I think pairing her with Wolverine was a VERY BAD idea, I think the reason Marvel made this move is because there is a certain enmity between the two men. Most Storm fans were very upset about the Storm/Panther marriage (and a lot of that anger is justified, to be frank, from much of what happened to her character as a result of bringing the two together), so I think Marvel paired her with Logan as a way to show her fans that the marriage between Ororo and T'challa is truly over and that the two will not be getting back together. Its not a mere cool off. I think it was an overkill that was out-of-character for Storm. The Storm/Wolverine pairing, I believe, was done as an afterthought.

Getting back to the whole notion of Storm having to be with a Black man to validate her Blackness is all kinds of messed up. She was no more Black when she was married to him than she was at any other point in her history. For starters, she's an X-Man which means she is in a book with predominately White characters. The likelihood of her being with a Black character is very slim. She should not have a mentality where she says, "I only date men of one race." Blackness is a made up term. Its not something innate. As such, different people have different ideas of what Blackness is. Want to know what it is at its core? Blackness, at least in this country, is centered around the church and the Bible. For so long, the church was the corner stone of the Black community and the Black pastor was the most respected person in that same community. As an African-American, one thing I am PROUD to say (and something all of us should be proud of) is that for MANY decades, it was the Black community that truly represented what Christianity was in this country. While you certainly had Whites who were on fire for God, proportionally, I believe that the Black community reflected this much moreso. Unfortunately, lately, the community has been moving away from its Biblical heritage. I can go on and on about this, but then it will become a digression. My point is, one of the things the Bible teaches is its okay to have interracial marriages and relationships. Look at the story of Ruth. Look at the story of Queen Esther who was a Jewish woman that married a Persian king. Look at Moses who was married to an Ethiopian. While I am well aware of the plight of Blacks in this country and understand the feelings many have concerning Black/White relationships, its something that's really at odds with our heritage. 

When considering being in a relationship with someone, it should be about the individual themselves regardless of the color of their skin. If a Black is with a non-Black, I have no problems whatsoever with it as long as its for the right reasons and its not an issue of the Black trying to look down upon his/her own. A Black person can be with someone of another race and be very confident in their own skin, comfortable with their ethnicity and comfortable/respectful of others of their same ethnicity. Storm represents this to me. She does not favor one race over another and she is very comfortable with herself. She is very welcoming and accepting of people of every ethnicity be it her own or a different one. She's a shining example of what everyone should aspire to be. She looks at the individual. This is one reason, I feel, she connects well with readers of various backgrounds. Storm is proof that there is a place for everyone, not just the Scott's and Jean Grey's like we saw in the early days with the original 5 X-Men. While race is an aspect of the character, she is not solely defined by that. If she ends up with a White man or somebody non-Black, its not because that character is a non-Black,  it would be more like she just happened to do so because he just happened to be a good fit for her. This Logan thing is simply her being written out-of-character to show her fanbase that the marriage is and truly over. This is not a cool off period between her and Panther. I'm writing it off as her rebounding from the marriage by scraping the bottom of the barrel to be with him. Mercifully, Logan is dying soon anyway.

All of that said, I will state it again, Storm an Black Panther needed to be broken up. The Storm fans were justified in their anger over this marriage. At first, they were open to the idea of this union eventhough it came out from left field without any realistic build up. Didn't the marriage issue get 70,000 sales, or something like that? As I've stated time and again, too much damage was done to Storm's character early on that alienated the readers from the Dickey mini to Storm not being portrayed as an equal partner in the marriage to T'challa and awkward writing in some of the earlier issues. One example of this would be the story where T'challa and Ororo visited Namor. Clearly, Storm operated there as a cheer leader for her husband and sat there side lined on the "important talks". She should have had an equal voice in that discussion to Namor and T'challa. Plus, her speech patterns were out-of-character. The Inhuman issue was also awkward. I don't want to keep bringing up instances of this, but all of this came on the heels right after the mini...a mini that went on for 6 months. While things got better with time in BP, the Storm fans had already booked off and weren't coming back as a result of what happened early on. When Maberry took over the book, there was a spike in sales which quickly dropped again because readers picked up the book under the new writer and saw a Shuri book. Nobody wants to read about her. The fact that sales spiked with the change of writers means that people were against Hudlin, not the IDEA pairing of the two characters. That sales spike really throws a monkey wrench in the whole "its all based on race" theory many of you hold. While there were a few racists thrown in the mix, overwhelmingly, I can tell you that the reason most were against the marriage (at least, on the internet)  was because they perceived Storm was being devalued by being written out-of-character to prop up the Black Panther. She was portrayed more like Sue Richards than Ororo Munroe personality-wise in some of those earlier issues. Again, this improved with time. Many of those fans you guys are criticizing and calling "racist" are Black, by the way. I can recall one of them, an internet friend of mine, telling me during an IM conversation, "Down with Hudlin!" I responded with, "Huh?" Her:" He's going to make Storm the head of a harem. That's all the Dora Milaje is. Just look at how he messed up her personality?" When I tried to console her (this is a Black female) and tell her that I think Hudlin genuinely likes Storm and is just new to her character, she responded with, "Don't tell me that, Rutog. You just wait and see. Look at that god awful mini. She already gave it up for him when she was a kid. I can't believe they did that to her. Dam@ that Hudlin! You know he and Dickey got together on that.  This is going to be terrible and I'm not going to stick around to see it. I'm giving up on Marvel. I love Storm too much." She was one of the Storm fans who came to this board early on back when I came here to "let the board have it for their disrespect for Storm", LOL! She told me verbatim, just like that in an IM conversation that she was going to get an account here and let you have it. As you can imagine, this young lady is a riot to talk to. I love her. ;) I met her back on the old Wizard boards where I first encountered Jenn. She never wanted to hear anything about BP in our conversations. If I tried to tell her about anything going on in the book, she didn't wanna hear it. Her mind was made up from the mini and some of the earlier issues of BP. She's not the only one like this either, but I shared this instance with you guys since I find it funny.

Anyway, I'm just trying to let you guys know that you are going overboard with the whole "Marvel broke Storm and BP up because they are Black and everyone who wanted to marriage to be dissolved is a racist too" claims.

Apex, of course, this was not all directed towards you, but at the board at large.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 29, 2014, 12:37:31 pm
Many Storm fans, angered because she'd become the wife and the Queen of T'Challa, the Black Panther and had through the process of becoming such, rediscovered the paternal side of her family, had reunited with the maternal side of her family, had become the beloved Daughter of her new Wakandan family and had seemingly shed herself of that dysfunctional, incestuous mess of a "family" known as the X-Men refused to give the relationship a ghost of a chance and immediately set forth to destroy the Black Panther comicbooks featuring Storm as Wakandan Queen by not patronizing the book, villifying the author, et al.

Storm's beginnings had been in the X-Men...a book practically devoid of a black presence save for a pimp here and there for Ororo to humiliate by creating mini hurricanes over his head...stuff like that there. She was safe in a cocoon of whitefolks and whiteness...a circumstance X-Fans might defend as "colorblindness". Storm's romance and marriage with the Black Panther ripped her away from all that and suddenly, Ororo was surrounded by nothing but blackfolks. Well, there's lots of so-called black people living in Wakanda and throughout Africa. What did they expect?

Storm's wedding was an event attended by the Watcher himself signifying it as something of great importance. Anti-Marriage fans reacted with a "meh... ::)" and determined to not support the Wedding or the comicbook. Prof X prounounced Storm as the most important mutant in the world by virtue of her Marriage to T'Challa. X-Fans still whined about "RoLo" being derailed by Storm's attachment to a C-List character. Storm fans complained that she was second fiddle to a third rate character even though more than once her position as Queen of Wakanda put her in situations of greater gravitas than any period of her being an X-Man had done. Want proof? Start with Ororo's decision making and holding Wakanda together after the assassination attempt against T'Challa and read backward from there.

Now, this new book will have Ororo doing essentially the types of things she would have been doing had she remained Queen of Wakanda and because of this, her fans are geeked and are soliciting support for the book. I have a great deal of respect for the poster Hypestyle. I read his comments and confess to being mildly surprised. I too have been on a comicbook-purchasing hiatus and fully agree with his decision not to support the Storm ongoing.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on June 29, 2014, 12:50:22 pm
Bendis is not feeling the X fans right now  he's weary of their "persecuted and put upon" mentality.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 29, 2014, 12:53:04 pm
Bendis is not feeling the X fans right now  he's weary of their "persecuted and put upon" mentality.
I don't blame him. It is a disaster to be a writer for a book dealing with self-righteous "fans" whom want to pretend they have "ownership" into something they have no control over.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 29, 2014, 09:47:01 pm
^ I agree but...

White males? Marvel is a company. I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I don't think it's white & black. I think it's comic nerds uniting. it's mutualism! It's a corrupt fan-boy agenda. Revenge of the nerds!

Paviitr Prabhakar (Peter Parker) Aunt Maya & Uncle Bhim?
([url]http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/images/spiderman_india/004.jpg[/url])

Meera Jain? nice.
([url]http://www.comicbookreligion.com/imgr/Jain.jpg[/url])

they could do the same for Ororo & Tchalla.

Switch (From The Matrix) "Not like this. Not like this--" 

Agent Smith "Never send a human to do a machines' job."


I wish Spider-Man India lasted longer, loved that series
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 29, 2014, 11:24:06 pm
Rutog98
You didn’t really address any of my points. You danced around the issues. That’s not open dialogue. The arguments seem empty, at times. whatever!

I’m pro- BP /Storm Marriage, because I‘m pro up-holding the sanctity of African Royalty.  RH had the right vision.

You would want the same for Obama & Michelle & would be embarrassed if they didn’t maintain their relationship. They are setting an example. BP & Storm’s divorce was corrupted. So, don’t tell me it needed to happen. That's like saying the corruption needed to happen. What? Don't be a fan-boy apologist.   

I’ve  been an artist my whole life. Never once have I depicted a black-man with a wide protruding mouth & eyes. I understand my culture, that’s why. Victor’s caricature image, like I said, is border-line. I didn’t come-up with the image comparisons out of nowhere. His renderings kinda looks like some “coon” sh*t! I would be more accepting if it were a comedy. But, it’s not. They’re serious. They need some cultural sensitivity training. They need to be careful, is all I said.

It’s unfair to ask a black-man to support someone else’s culture, religion, world-view, history & artistic interpretation jus to get along. Especially when they built the wealth of their nations, organizations & institutions off of my ancestors oppression.  You can’t ask me to accept “culture bandits.” That's patronizing!
 
sinjection1. great insight.
I’m with you on the symbolism behind the “blackness” of BP. It’s been acknowledged before on other levels.
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRRjQwKAVcxoqdP0IdRnyG692YEp-76tZBVl4LwK8OPHwEZWKxUei60HK1dGQ:imgdf-a.akamaihd.net/st/news/images/funny-Power-Rangers-black-yellow_4.jpg)

The fan-boys want storm all to themselves, period. In the end it’s all about good intentions. Kirby & Lee had good intentions. Respect to the founders. But the other... they have not shown literary integrity. There is a history of uncivilized behavior as it relates to black people. That’s why it was called the “Civil Rights Movement.” to civilize uncivilized people. the image below... who needs the attitude adjustment?
(http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT9uHkFOLEFKn-YU5CBwPORgkUFPoLZT8XD84gfUSkwxs5KGQYg:mrscarafiello.weebly.com/uploads/6/0/5/9/6059361/7026283_orig.jpg)

BP & Storm need their own civil rights. whatever

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 30, 2014, 12:31:21 am

I wish Spider-Man India lasted longer, loved that series

Yep, I enjoyed the comics. interesting indeed! Miles Morales could stand on his own in an alternate universe spidey. fun!





Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 12:38:20 am
For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcFe2f0w7tLwRZvBo477uvWREHLrSIQTDSmkCE4StlJlsIkkE2) (http://black-face.com/images/Willie-Best-small.jpg)   (http://black-face.com/images/MantanMoreland-small.jpg)  (http://black-face.com/images/Billie-Buckwheat-Thomas-2x.jpg)  (http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/-_swtbIi2F0/mqdefault.jpg)
 (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ7982JpZ1rZOx6EhDUVP7WTUPBno7A-5m2dv0MGOXsakNKbENx)  (https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRSZymkGKVTpXHc7FXwb4hloBw23mXk6zIhQXAJoCS_XHgxkiEV)  (https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrieb6OUs4yCq4v2KRmI9RUt2MFvGqVYswoBdDifgeLAkUaJ5v)  (https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRq4NXjTujdyshDgDZsmWNzedJ7dRy7359F0UWanBig2o_lqGy0)

http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html (http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html)



(http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg)


Quit using blanket statements. You’re making accusations. It's rude! Address the arguments & not your made-up beliefs. I’ll hit you with an avalanche of historical facts to support any statement I make. That's not "knocking"... that's clear observation.   
 
Fact #1: Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Fact #2 : Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Keepin’ It Real” means being honest. The truth is essential when critiquing culture related issues.

Freedom of Speech & Expression for You, Max, Greg, Victor & everyone else.


The people in the scans you used from the upcoming Storm book were not depicted as bug-eyed. I have not seen a single bug-eyed Black character in the x-books. Storm, Frenzy, Maggot, Bishop, Stevie Hunter, etc, none of them have been bug eyed.

Regarding your comment about "Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce...", I have to take issue on that. Henry the 8th, anyone?  In the olden days, one of the ways out of the marriage was through murder. Today is much improved, though murder still happens. Glad to see that Wakanda was depicted as a modern country instead of one stuck back in the stone age.

Here is the problem I am having: Many posters here seem to think that Blackness means Storm has to be married to Black Panther, a Black man. If she is with a White man, or a man of any other ethnicity, it makes her less Black. That is the vibe I am getting. To be honest with you, that kind of mentality is stupid and ignorant. Personally, I don't think Marvel's plan for breaking up Storm and T'challa was to put her with Logan. While I think pairing her with Wolverine was a VERY BAD idea, I think the reason Marvel made this move is because there is a certain enmity between the two men. Most Storm fans were very upset about the Storm/Panther marriage (and a lot of that anger is justified, to be frank, from much of what happened to her character as a result of bringing the two together), so I think Marvel paired her with Logan as a way to show her fans that the marriage between Ororo and T'challa is truly over and that the two will not be getting back together. Its not a mere cool off. I think it was an overkill that was out-of-character for Storm. The Storm/Wolverine pairing, I believe, was done as an afterthought.

Getting back to the whole notion of Storm having to be with a Black man to validate her Blackness is all kinds of messed up. She was no more Black when she was married to him than she was at any other point in her history. For starters, she's an X-Man which means she is in a book with predominately White characters. The likelihood of her being with a Black character is very slim. She should not have a mentality where she says, "I only date men of one race." Blackness is a made up term. Its not something innate. As such, different people have different ideas of what Blackness is. Want to know what it is at its core? Blackness, at least in this country, is centered around the church and the Bible. For so long, the church was the corner stone of the Black community and the Black pastor was the most respected person in that same community. As an African-American, one thing I am PROUD to say (and something all of us should be proud of) is that for MANY decades, it was the Black community that truly represented what Christianity was in this country. While you certainly had Whites who were on fire for God, proportionally, I believe that the Black community reflected this much moreso. Unfortunately, lately, the community has been moving away from its Biblical heritage. I can go on and on about this, but then it will become a digression. My point is, one of the things the Bible teaches is its okay to have interracial marriages and relationships. Look at the story of Ruth. Look at the story of Queen Esther who was a Jewish woman that married a Persian king. Look at Moses who was married to an Ethiopian. While I am well aware of the plight of Blacks in this country and understand the feelings many have concerning Black/White relationships, its something that's really at odds with our heritage. 

When considering being in a relationship with someone, it should be about the individual themselves regardless of the color of their skin. If a Black is with a non-Black, I have no problems whatsoever with it as long as its for the right reasons and its not an issue of the Black trying to look down upon his/her own. A Black person can be with someone of another race and be very confident in their own skin, comfortable with their ethnicity and comfortable/respectful of others of their same ethnicity. Storm represents this to me. She does not favor one race over another and she is very comfortable with herself. She is very welcoming and accepting of people of every ethnicity be it her own or a different one. She's a shining example of what everyone should aspire to be. She looks at the individual. This is one reason, I feel, she connects well with readers of various backgrounds. Storm is proof that there is a place for everyone, not just the Scott's and Jean Grey's like we saw in the early days with the original 5 X-Men. While race is an aspect of the character, she is not solely defined by that. If she ends up with a White man or somebody non-Black, its not because that character is a non-Black,  it would be more like she just happened to do so because he just happened to be a good fit for her. This Logan thing is simply her being written out-of-character to show her fanbase that the marriage is and truly over. This is not a cool off period between her and Panther. I'm writing it off as her rebounding from the marriage by scraping the bottom of the barrel to be with him. Mercifully, Logan is dying soon anyway.

All of that said, I will state it again, Storm an Black Panther needed to be broken up. The Storm fans were justified in their anger over this marriage. At first, they were open to the idea of this union eventhough it came out from left field without any realistic build up. Didn't the marriage issue get 70,000 sales, or something like that? As I've stated time and again, too much damage was done to Storm's character early on that alienated the readers from the Dickey mini to Storm not being portrayed as an equal partner in the marriage to T'challa and awkward writing in some of the earlier issues. One example of this would be the story where T'challa and Ororo visited Namor. Clearly, Storm operated there as a cheer leader for her husband and sat there side lined on the "important talks". She should have had an equal voice in that discussion to Namor and T'challa. Plus, her speech patterns were out-of-character. The Inhuman issue was also awkward. I don't want to keep bringing up instances of this, but all of this came on the heels right after the mini...a mini that went on for 6 months. While things got better with time in BP, the Storm fans had already booked off and weren't coming back as a result of what happened early on. When Maberry took over the book, there was a spike in sales which quickly dropped again because readers picked up the book under the new writer and saw a Shuri book. Nobody wants to read about her. The fact that sales spiked with the change of writers means that people were against Hudlin, not the IDEA pairing of the two characters. That sales spike really throws a monkey wrench in the whole "its all based on race" theory many of you hold. While there were a few racists thrown in the mix, overwhelmingly, I can tell you that the reason most were against the marriage (at least, on the internet)  was because they perceived Storm was being devalued by being written out-of-character to prop up the Black Panther. She was portrayed more like Sue Richards than Ororo Munroe personality-wise in some of those earlier issues. Again, this improved with time. Many of those fans you guys are criticizing and calling "racist" are Black, by the way. I can recall one of them, an internet friend of mine, telling me during an IM conversation, "Down with Hudlin!" I responded with, "Huh?" Her:" He's going to make Storm the head of a harem. That's all the Dora Milaje is. Just look at how he messed up her personality?" When I tried to console her (this is a Black female) and tell her that I think Hudlin genuinely likes Storm and is just new to her character, she responded with, "Don't tell me that, Rutog. You just wait and see. Look at that god awful mini. She already gave it up for him when she was a kid. I can't believe they did that to her. Dam@ that Hudlin! You know he and Dickey got together on that.  This is going to be terrible and I'm not going to stick around to see it. I'm giving up on Marvel. I love Storm too much." She was one of the Storm fans who came to this board early on back when I came here to "let the board have it for their disrespect for Storm", LOL! She told me verbatim, just like that in an IM conversation that she was going to get an account here and let you have it. As you can imagine, this young lady is a riot to talk to. I love her. ;) I met her back on the old Wizard boards where I first encountered Jenn. She never wanted to hear anything about BP in our conversations. If I tried to tell her about anything going on in the book, she didn't wanna hear it. Her mind was made up from the mini and some of the earlier issues of BP. She's not the only one like this either, but I shared this instance with you guys since I find it funny.

Anyway, I'm just trying to let you guys know that you are going overboard with the whole "Marvel broke Storm and BP up because they are Black and everyone who wanted to marriage to be dissolved is a racist too" claims.

Apex, of course, this was not all directed towards you, but at the board at large.



Many Storm fans, angered because she'd become the wife and the Queen of T'Challa, the Black Panther and had through the process of becoming such, rediscovered the paternal side of her family, had reunited with the maternal side of her family, had become the beloved Daughter of her new Wakandan family and had seemingly shed herself of that dysfunctional, incestuous mess of a "family" known as the X-Men refused to give the relationship a ghost of a chance and immediately set forth to destroy the Black Panther comicbooks featuring Storm as Wakandan Queen by not patronizing the book, villifying the author, et al.

Storm's beginnings had been in the X-Men...a book practically devoid of a black presence save for a pimp here and there for Ororo to humiliate by creating mini hurricanes over his head...stuff like that there. She was safe in a cocoon of whitefolks and whiteness...a circumstance X-Fans might defend as "colorblindness". Storm's romance and marriage with the Black Panther ripped her away from all that and suddenly, Ororo was surrounded by nothing but blackfolks. Well, there's lots of so-called black people living in Wakanda and throughout Africa. What did they expect?

Storm's wedding was an event attended by the Watcher himself signifying it as something of great importance. Anti-Marriage fans reacted with a "meh... ::)" and determined to not support the Wedding or the comicbook. Prof X prounounced Storm as the most important mutant in the world by virtue of her Marriage to T'Challa. X-Fans still whined about "RoLo" being derailed by Storm's attachment to a C-List character. Storm fans complained that she was second fiddle to a third rate character even though more than once her position as Queen of Wakanda put her in situations of greater gravitas than any period of her being an X-Man had done. Want proof? Start with Ororo's decision making and holding Wakanda together after the assassination attempt against T'Challa and read backward from there.

Now, this new book will have Ororo doing essentially the types of things she would have been doing had she remained Queen of Wakanda and because of this, her fans are geeked and are soliciting support for the book. I have a great deal of respect for the poster Hypestyle. I read his comments and confess to being mildly surprised. I too have been on a comicbook-purchasing hiatus and fully agree with his decision not to support the Storm ongoing.





In my opinion, this issue isn't so very complicated...and the various contending sides each have a legit point of contention or two to hand their hats on.

Was The Marriage rushed? No. Could it have been better executed? Yes. Would it have been executed ever at all if not for RH? No. Would Storm have continued to slide into nigh irrelevancy without Hudlin's writing? Yes.

Was the EJD mini shocking, largely due to the sex scene [ which I have a link from EJD saying that Storm was 13, which makes TChalla no more than 15-16...just like a couple of bf-gf couples I see right on my own block; and they're not being villified. Justifiably so, imo ]? Yes. Does sex happen regularly with kids of that age, and they turn out to be upstanding citizens on the regular? Yes indeed. Yours truly is one.

Do people who hate on EJD's miniseries have other reasons to hate the book? To them, I'm sure that they do. But without the sex scene, their pickings become slim...and that's where the shade that Marvel has thrown TChalla specifically gets extra wicked.

Some argue that they see nothing wrong with Ororo saving TChalla, as the story was told in CC's original script. I see a lot wrong with that. Even back then, TChalla was second in strength only to Captain America...and superior in speed, stealth, acrobatics, quickness, hunting skill, sharpness of senses, technology, and intelligence. He should never have needed rescuing. He should never have needed to engage them himself at all. His underlings could have easily mopped the floor with those henchmen, and Ruyter too. But as kids? Makes sense that TChalla would be more vulnerable to the superhuman Bull than he would be at any time as even a child in his late teens. So would Ororo. I might also remind the EJD mini haters that Ororo DID save TChalla. Against the biggest, baddest bad guy...The Bull himself. And she saved them from dying in a helicopter crash; something TChalla flat out could not do, despite his Wakandan upbringing. She also stopped The Bull, her rival, and their army all by herself. Something else TChalla couldn't do. Who has the biggest victories in the STORM miniseries? Yep. Ororo does. As it should be, imo.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 12:38:57 am
I'm one of the few on this board who openly acknowledges that I liked the STORM miniseries. My kids' mother likes the miniseries. My oldest daughter likes the miniseries [ she's 17 ]. All of her friends who've read my miniseries [ which my daughter took it upon herself to share without asking me to do so ] also like the miniseries.

Many comic fans were repulsed from jumpstreet, though. Did a lot of that repulsion have a lot to do with a combination of ignorance of, disrespect for, and racism and resentment toward Black Panther as the premier Black male superhero in comics?

Yes. There is no denying such. Even when the Storm fans first rushed HEF to besiege us, the inital purpose and interaction was definitely confrontational. And this is on top of the Three Headed Monsters and Lovecrafties of the world.

Okay. Let's look at the EJD sex scene. Because that's the real static that people have.

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/storm4-1.jpg)

Is that disrespectful of the characters? No. However, when we project various AMERICAN VALUES upon it, will SOME PEOPLE get offended? Yes, of course.

Are AMERICAN VALUES the operating dominant moral compass of these AFRIKAN HEROES with deeper souls, and of lineagesat least 8000 years older than America is actually operating off of American values? No. There ya are. Stop being Ugly Americans.

 And kill that statutory rape nonsense, because that's not the law in traditional Africa. Stop superimposing Americanized, Westernized morals and ignorance upon a much older and much more mature AFRIKAN NOT AMERICAN civilization. Before that? The people who had already decided to dislike the idea of the book and the marriage and these two characters who are clearly a terrific and nigh perfect match for each other actually could only hang their hat on the rather dubious and essentially substanceless argument that EJD didn't have TChalla get saved by Ororo.

Yeah. The Crown Prince of a civilization that's rockin Top 100 Tech in the galaxy...reeeaaaallllly doesn't need to be saved by a young lady who hasn't yet gotten a grip on her powers yet. Which brings me to this question here. Does the original story reflect the supergenius of TChalla? Would a GROWN ADULT SUPERGENIUS SUPERSTRATEGIST PRINCE of THE GREATEST HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN HUMAN HISTORY actually dress talk and act like this?

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla2.jpg)

Hell naw. That's what's wrong with the whole original story, and that's why the whole original story needs to get retconned.

Would that same princeling on his Walkabout, seeking to hide his actual identity from easy visual determination, blending into the general masses and thus without his hypertech, retinue of servants warriors bodyguards powerful sorcerers etc...[ the Walkabout is an actual tradition in Africa which is similar to one of the Rites of Passage that we celebrate in my own family btw ]...dress and act like THIS, given the time period and the prevalent political climate of the world and Africa?

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla9.jpg)

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla10.jpg)

Yes.

That rendition is much more sensible and realistic.

He doesn't need to be saved by a girl who hasn't gotten a grip on her powers yet. And given the Marvel canon about mutant powers manifesting during the teenage years? That tack taken by EJD rings true, too. However. Once said young lady locks in her powers? Yeah. THE GALAXY needs to be saved by her. THE UNIVERSE TOO. Multiple times. And let's not forget...she saved an entire city, and a whole countryside...inclusive of TChalla...by the end of the book. And clowned her rival. With class, I might add.

She wasn't the slowest zebra anymore.

So yeah. The critics of the EJD miniseries? They all have different reasons for their repulsion...but. Bottom line? I think there's a lot of skipping of a lot of content in the miniseries in order to harp and imo blow out of proportion the sex scene and the fact that TChalla wasn't a D-Lister in need of help from anyone...and at that point in their lives? He SHOULD enjoy a PRONOUNCED advantage over Ororo, until her control of her powers kick in.

None of that stuff I mentioned gets addressed.

Let me tell you something else that the sex scene made clear: Black Love is still threatening to a lot of people in the LCBRD. It wasn't just bad enough that EJD showed that two teenagers who loved each other actually had sex [ because that NEVER happens across the world, across racial ethnic political class cultural and other lines; nope ] what really got their goat was that Ororo was ALSO bangin TChalla in RH's miniseries. Maxine Shaw once had a sig that read: "Ororo, Queen of Wakanda. She's Black AND F#ck!ng" or something to that effect.

(http://oi41.tinypic.com/103hdvo.jpg)

And that reality liked to have scoured the flesh off of most people having a problem with The Marriage. Because these two being Black, Afrikan, unbowed, without needing any White character leading anything at all or even being anywhere at all in their general cast, more powerful than any married cape couple in Marvel history, and featured everywhere in the big crossover events...was just too much.

Despite all that shade, EJD still sold in the low to high 20k's. Had the shade been ameliorated even a little? He'd have hit round 40k monthly. And the BP ongoing would have hit even more.

 http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-03.html (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-03.html)



Was Ororo playing second fiddle in the talks TChalla and Namor had? Nope. Was she less involved in the discussion than TChalla was? Yep. She did not know the real reason that TChalla joined The Avengers, so she couldn't act like she DID know something that SHE DID NOT know. However, it was she...not TChalla...who checked Namor. In Atlantis. In his throne room. And...uh...she was getting infinitely more shine, a much more prominent position, and possessed of far more relevancy MU wide as Queen of Wakanda than at any time she ever spent in the X-books. Literally. Not even CC got close to what Hudlin did for Ororo. Real talk.

This is how THEY introduced Storm:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lNFdcpcj-PA/TdIXFKpwbAI/AAAAAAAAKhU/MedMs5BZHCA/s1600/gs%252Bxmen%252B1%252Bstorm.jpg)


Not from the unashamed mature humanity embracing body beautiful cultural perspective of Africa, but from the sexually titillating fetishist perspective dominant in the psyche of most White Americans and especially White young to middle age males at the time this pic was crafted.

With Reginald Hudlin...in 6 or so issues...RH had such far reaching impact that Ororo was featured in every major Marvel event and in multiple books that wouldn't even touch her before. At her most popular, under CC's pen? Storm was a NONENTITY outside of the X-books.


Reginald Hudlin, in the space of 6 issues, had Ororo doing more than the X-office had her do in nearly 20 years. When was the last time that Ororo squared off with someone Clor-like?

(http://bp0.blogger.com/_cq-h1RCj4yI/SEJagkkq9CI/AAAAAAAAAxc/4p-QCnhJmGk/s1600-h/ororo.gif)

Yep. The Asgardian Wars. 20 or so years ago. Pause and let that marinate. TWENTY OR SO YEARS AGO. And remember? Loki CLOWNED HER with ONE MOVE. Didn't Claremont write that?  Yes, he did. Under Reginald Hudlin's pen? Storm backs down Iron Man when he shows up at the Wakandan Embassy trying to be a boss.

Under RH's pen, STORM DROPS CLOR WITH A EMP.

(http://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/thorstorm1.jpg)

Now. Who's being the most appreciative of and respectful to Storm, again? Didn't THIS happen under Chris Claremont?

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29818/689102-storm40.jpg)


When you look at the substance of the work of RH and the benefits of Ororo being married to TChalla which afforded other writers the option to use Ororo too. Adn it's clear that everyone knows that Ororo is an equal partner in her marriage with TChalla. McDuffie wrote it...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2532277-screen_shot_2012_08_14_at_3.31.41_pm.png)

RH wrote it...

(http://www.dailyraider.com/comics/readytodie/malcolmx.jpg)

And haters...who didn't read RH's book, mind you, for the most part...hated it with that special intensity that only abysmal ignorance can bring.

Don't forget. For the first time in world comic book history, we see a royal Black superheroic married couple traveling the cosmos WITHOUT having to rely on White folks for anything. We see at last this heterosexual couple frequently on panel together [ seriously, think back. When was the last time that you saw two Black superheroes together forming thee most powerful married couple in comics, both from The Big Two, both deeply in love and constantly shown on the same panel together. Supportive of each other. For not just pages or books but arcs and whole runs? Answer: NEVER EVER. None before RH. None after him ] showing them working together as a team that has not only the power to defeat enemies physically...

[ and you know that I can't pass up the fact that THIS pic giving TCHALLA vastly overdue props got the LCBRD hooowwwwlliiiing with hatred ]:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/NM95/wow5uz9.jpg)

And THESE got shade, too, although not as much as the previous SS arm bar:

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123445/3269365-49a2b56884cbab459335b9855b6fe070_zps59f2c97a.jpg)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3483144-parker+1.jpg)

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/1289773-untitled1_zps87602d99.jpg)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3726645-compare.jpg)


TChalla and Ororo also showed the brilliance resources strategic cunning teamwork and knowhow to pull leverage on powerful extraterrestrial entities

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/RhPANEbqteI/AAAAAAAAB_0/Nq9BXQJ5F4s/s1600/Fantastic%2BFour%2B544-2.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/RhPANEbqteI/AAAAAAAAB_0/Nq9BXQJ5F4s/s1600/Fantastic%2BFour%2B544-2.JPG)


queen Ororo is an equal above and everywhere else. She is NOT a cheerleader. She is NOT second fiddle. And she is presented as NOT being second fiddle by RH and everyone else who respects and "gets" the character.



So let's see. A guy who is in canon being shown having contingency plans to take on Galactus like Black Panther is...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/50188/1086966-bp_contingency_plan_for_galactus.jpg)

Really ain't worried about Norrin Radd aka Silver Surfer, who owes his power to Galactus.

However, the LCBRD haaaateed on TChalla. Despite his capability in that regard being well well established in canon...buut they are cool with the idea of Hawkeye taking on Ultron

(http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/60479/HawkeyeEE.jpg2.jpg)

Now. When has Hawkeye EVER shown any aptitude or ability to take on Ultron?

I'm waiting.

Never? Thought so. But Hawkeye taking on Ultron is "cool". TChalla taking on SS is catches shade like the dark side of the moon.

Like sin and Sal said. Most of the static isn't rooted in legit issues dealing with legit characterization and story plot. Most of the rabid backlash comes from deep seated dual desires: to keep Ororo as 'their" exotic wallflower piece unsullied by any Black man, aaand "their" deep discomfort with TChalla because of who and what he is. Especially when a skilled Black scribe is writing him.

Ororo will catch a very similar level of intense shade when she permanently takes herself off of The Fetish Farm and establishes herself as a true Afrikan superhero who is every bit as much a mutant as she is regal, Afrakan, and unconquerable. Like Yost said...she doesn't have to choose between Worlds Apart. She symbolizes Worlds United.

Her LCBRD fanbase though? Not so much.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 12:57:47 am
Her origin isn't even "hers". It's a shameless and blatant rip-off of Modesty Blaise's.

And pretty much any fictional character can be written to go toe-to-toe with anyone. Storm being constantly pedestaled and propped up as the exotic, token, black, weather based, female, version of Goku, whose-ethnicity-is-really-only-talked-about-to-show-how-bad-practically-all-other-black-people-are-in-contrast-to-her, just makes it easier than most. Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.


I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.

Um...since the post I previously wrote wouldn't accomodate these pix...

...here's further proof of Ororo NOT being written as 2nd fiddle to TChalla. By McDuffie...

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SWcXxYPqxGI/S2T4rKsJJ4I/AAAAAAAAB6s/o2RccE4j1NQ/s1600-h/BATTLE.jpg)

...by RH

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/1193685-bp2.jpg)

we know of course that in the X-books, Ororo has always been written by the guys there as a paragon of virtue. they would never write anything that remotely smelled of her lacking unshakeable moral integrity, she would always be regal and noble and stuff...

(http://oi52.tinypic.com/jb749z.jpg)

...maybe NOT^^^.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 30, 2014, 02:17:53 am
And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. Because the fact of the matter is? Pak can write his hindquarters off. For those who have reservations about him writing a Black person? Remember how he just KILT IT on WAR MACHINE.

Pak can do this.

Storm has long needed a series. And we can have the history making happenstance of a Black female lead in her own solo break into the shelves and be profitable. Thus opening up the market for more women of color, and more people PERIOD.

Learn to say YES to good things, people.

A black woman without a black-man? That’s not cultural appreciation. What legacy & who’s legacy is that representing? That's foreign interpretation & manipulation.

 “Power concedes nothing without a demand.”
~ Freddrick Douglas. Who’s demanding that a strong independent black women duke-it-out with other black people & be their savior?

Is it a business move or a passive opportunity to continue to control the image of black characters? They are monopolizing Storm. The idealism/ concepts (of the storm solo ) is already dysfunctional & distorted because it's not speaking to issues facing women of color. Just fan-boys, who don’t want to acknowledge... What doors are opening & who has all the keys... for a black female character? fan-boys... hhhmmmmm

They (the public) wants President Obama to appeal to a broader audience & not just blacks. The fan-boys only want Storm to appeal to them & not broader audiences. Am I right or wrong? Diversity!

Not the same ol’ same. Pak has the right to produce the comic as he sees fit. But when it comes to culture (African / Afro Cuban/ Caribbean) he has to come-up to a cultural standard & responsibility.  Not go down to please his demographic jus to secure sells. i'll wish them well, while I give them hell. Defending our women is our duty. We're fighting with them side by side. The solo has her fighting us. The same way she fought BP. It's a bad start. Skating on thin-ice for sure.     

I just completed a comic about the “Chinese Valentine’s.” I’m black! Do you think I depicted any stereo-typical images or concepts of Asians? 

I'm not trippin' or taking it too seriously. It's just a harsh-critique for an important subject matter. recognize!

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 04:11:09 am
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 30, 2014, 06:20:11 am
The "Illumination". As usual, a logical, compelling; engaging read. And as is usually the case, I was inclined to walk in lock-step with my Dear Brother, Supreme.  But in this instance, the following pierced the sole of my big flat foot as the thorn into the lion's paw: And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. No, Brother. Not this time.

The HEF, never known as an assembly of monolithic thinkers, seem to have rendered the decision regarding this matter with one voice. Support Storm? Absolutely. Support the Storm ongoing with full knowledge of how writers have portrayed her in the past and with only rhetoric to try to convince us that this time all will be different and this new writer will portray an Ororo...THE Ororo...we haven't seen since the inception of her character? We can't do that "unquestionably", Supreme. We have more answers at this point than we have questions, Brother. History...30 years of consuming the swill of a less than positive, respectable, consistent portrayal of this magnificent character Ororo Munroe with only the brief respite during her reign as Queen of Wakanda...30 years of that mess have convinced most of us beyond any shadow of doubt that where Storm is concerned, where those who write her character are concerned and considering the expectations of the audience - the LCBRD - those writers are trying to appease...we stand convinced that we can only expect more of the same.

We need time, Supreme. Hudlin could have written Storm as well, if not better than this "Pak", but the LCBRD didn't want that "Too Black, Too Strong" version of Storm...a Storm that if that lot had been as open-minded as many HEF members are (I recuse myself  ;)), would have entertained the diverse mass of comicbook fans, not simply the so-called black comicbook fan. But no. The LCBRD...spiced with a bit of black pepper sprinkled in if we are to believe some folks...didn't seem to want this. Hudlin was accused of planning to disgrace Ororo by having her become a member of his "harem" and worse nonsense than that did they spew. The LCBRD and friends were amenable to the images of Ororo in the Arena, in sexually suggestive posture with Yukio, disgraced and imprisoned. T'Challa's "harem" disgusted the LCBRD, but Ororo as just another...what did Jenn call it? "nut bucket" for Logan not only appealed to them; they LUSTED after it.

So now, Storm's "fans" (enablers is what they truly are, Dear Brother),...they come to the HEF asking for our support of this ongoing. I'd rather listen to Tupac than to eminem. I'd rather listen to Little Richard than to Pat Boone. I'd rather listen to Louis Armstrong than I would Bix Beiderbecke and to Chick Webb - the TRUE King of Swing - than I would to Benny Goodman. And I'd have rather read what R. Hudlin could have done with Ororo's character than read what Pak might do with Ororo's character.

We can't support the ongoing "unquestionably", Supreme. Knowing the HEF - and I think I know it well enough - some will purchase the book and share their opinion of what they have read. At that point, with more information and having at least a few questions answered, Storm's fans might be able to expect a softening of opinion and possible support for this ongoing.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 30, 2014, 08:06:18 am

I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.


It's somewhat obscure, but it's one of my favorite series to come out of UK. The parallels between her origin and Storm's were so obvious, and Claremont flat out admitted that he intentionally copied it. Because he was a fan of the series as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 08:21:09 am

I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.


It's somewhat obscure, but it's one of my favorite series to come out of UK. The parallels between her origin and Storm's were so obvious, and Claremont flat out admitted that he intentionally copied it. Because he was a fan of the series as well.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise[/url])


Very very good eye, sir. I went to wikipedia to look her up the very first time I read your post, prior to you thoughtfully posting a link to her entry. I liked it. Good work.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 30, 2014, 08:44:28 am
I just completed a comic about the “Chinese Valentine’s.” I’m black! Do you think I depicted any stereo-typical images or concepts of Asians? 

I'm not trippin' or taking it too seriously. It's just a harsh-critique for an important subject matter. recognize!





...and do you know what would happen if you depicted stereo-typical imagery of Asians?

Anyone remember a television show in the early 90s called 'All American Girl'  starring comedian Margaret Cho?  Korean Americans and Asians in general, thought that the show depicted Asians unfavorably and protested the showrunners so heavily that by the end of the 1st season, the show couldn't get a renewal. 

Of course, none of the accusations were true but that incident should give you an idea of what would happen, APEXABYSS.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 08:53:01 am
The "Illumination". As usual, a logical, compelling; engaging read. And as is usually the case, I was inclined to walk in lock-step with my Dear Brother, Supreme.  But in this instance, the following pierced the sole of my big flat foot as the thorn into the lion's paw: And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. No, Brother. Not this time.

The HEF, never known as an assembly of monolithic thinkers, seem to have rendered the decision regarding this matter with one voice. Support Storm? Absolutely. Support the Storm ongoing with full knowledge of how writers have portrayed her in the past and with only rhetoric to try to convince us that this time all will be different and this new writer will portray an Ororo...THE Ororo...we haven't seen since the inception of her character? We can't do that "unquestionably", Supreme. We have more answers at this point than we have questions, Brother. History...30 years of consuming the swill of a less than positive, respectable, consistent portrayal of this magnificent character Ororo Munroe with only the brief respite during her reign as Queen of Wakanda...30 years of that mess have convinced most of us beyond any shadow of doubt that where Storm is concerned, where those who write her character are concerned and considering the expectations of the audience - the LCBRD - those writers are trying to appease...we stand convinced that we can only expect more of the same.

We need time, Supreme. Hudlin could have written Storm as well, if not better than this "Pak", but the LCBRD didn't want that "Too Black, Too Strong" version of Storm...a Storm that if that lot had been as open-minded as many HEF members are (I recuse myself  ;)), would have entertained the diverse mass of comicbook fans, not simply the so-called black comicbook fan. But no. The LCBRD...spiced with a bit of black pepper sprinkled in if we are to believe some folks...didn't seem to want this. Hudlin was accused of planning to disgrace Ororo by having her become a member of his "harem" and worse nonsense than that did they spew. The LCBRD and friends were amenable to the images of Ororo in the Arena, in sexually suggestive posture with Yukio, disgraced and imprisoned. T'Challa's "harem" disgusted the LCBRD, but Ororo as just another...what did Jenn call it? "nut bucket" for Logan not only appealed to them; they LUSTED after it.

So now, Storm's "fans" (enablers is what they truly are, Dear Brother),...they come to the HEF asking for our support of this ongoing. I'd rather listen to Tupac than to eminem. I'd rather listen to Little Richard than to Pat Boone. I'd rather listen to Louis Armstrong than I would Bix Beiderbecke and to Chick Webb - the TRUE King of Swing - than I would to Benny Goodman. And I'd have rather read what R. Hudlin could have done with Ororo's character than read what Pak might do with Ororo's character.

We can't support the ongoing "unquestionably", Supreme. Knowing the HEF - and I think I know it well enough - some will purchase the book and share their opinion of what they have read. At that point, with more information and having at least a few questions answered, Storm's fans might be able to expect a softening of opinion and possible support for this ongoing.


Now, who can argue with this post? Not I.
 
My choice of  may not have been as clear as I wished, so please allow me to clarify.

There is no chance that I in any way think that we should ignore the 30 years written about Storm prior to now, and I include most damningly the LACK of an ongoing solo featuring Storm. And that Arena pic of Storm [ I rebuke the thought and image ]. What Forge did to Storm [ REBUKE REBUKE REBUKE ]. For far too long and in far too many ways, Storm...who, until the arrival of Monica Rambeau and the better writing being done for Misty Knight despite that cornball name...carried the luggage and all the hard work for ALL Black women of the caped community and ALMOST ALL the luggage for Women Of Color in the caped community period point blank. And for far too long and in far too many ways, Storm's portrayal has elicited one long rebuke-fest from yours truly.

Because I am very much aware of how lacking in genuine "Blackness" that Ororo has been since her inception [ she should most definitely have carried the imprint of Afrikan culture in her personality philosophy morality etc far more clearly than she has ] prior to Priest, RH, and McDuffie [ where are our Black women writers for Storm? I said it before and I said it again...I bet Maxine Shaw our Attorney at LOL could write a strong Ororo who would probably get death threats sent to Maxine hahahaha. Gail Simone would bring it with Ororo and so would thee only Black female scribe I have ever heard of in all of comics...can't believe her name escapes me for the nonce...but she would tear it down and not Tyler Perry her, either ], I have cast an eye on Pak's work. This man can write. He writes characters of all colors well. He gave War Machine a distinct voice that is so potent that HIS War Machine is now THEE War Machine, as Priest's BP became the standard bearing work and iconic THEE BP which was built upon and expanded by RH.

Seriously. Given the choice of scribes who could be tapped to write Ororo in a solo ongoing...who is a big name that can write well that we would also not recoil at when cast as Ororo's scribe...and also has the time to devote to such a venture? Besides Pak?

Isn't Warren Ellis tied up right now? [ He wrote da hell outta Ororo for the brief issues that he had her ]. Many of us don't trust Mark Millar with Storm [ and with good reason ]. They won't give Remender a shot, even though he was solid with his depiction of Dr. Voodoo. Even if they could find and motivate him, they won't give Priest [ who leads the pack by far when it comes to writing a Storm that is both regal and accepted by the LCBRD but Black and not a sellout ] a shot because he'd for sure  bring back THEE Ororo, and add tons of missing stuff to her just by fleshing out what is already in canon. That's also why they won't let him rock Sam Wilson aka Falcon. He'd do with them what he did for TChalla. OH NO, MORE TOP FLIGHT BLACK SUPERCAPES, WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!! If Priest had Ororo? You know he'd eventually address that whole TChalla situation, and he'd do it with epic skill and flair. OH NOOOO MORE X-OFFICE SHADE. So nope. That leaves Pak.

This man Pak CAN do it.

And he has a track record which...unlike other writers in the previously mentioned odious decade or so of Ororo's slide and slump into X-Obscurity...gives us something solid to point at when it comes to characters of color [ WAR MACHINE ] and unusual characters with potential but who don't get the shine that they deserve [ HERCULES especially, and he wrote a very good HULK ].

Now. I still say that the real superscribe for Storm is...was...our legendary Octavia Butler. May she Rest In Power.

But given what we have available? We can do A LOT WORSE than Pak. Pak can actually deliver what he promises. He has done so before. So...in the case of Pak I don't believe that we should give him the hairy eyeball without cause drawn from the book itself that he is writing, because he already has a track record of doing the stuff we as a whole like to see in any character, but especially characters of color.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 30, 2014, 09:56:53 am


...and do you know what would happen if you depicted stereo-typical imagery of Asians?

Anyone remember a television show in the early 90s called 'All American Girl'  starring comedian Margaret Cho?  Korean Americans and Asians in general, thought that the show depicted Asians unfavorably and protested the showrunners so heavily that by the end of the 1st season, the show couldn't get a renewal. 

Of course, none of the accusations were true but that incident should give you an idea of what would happen, APEXABYSS.
Then this show wont last too long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOutgc-GG6g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOutgc-GG6g#ws)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 30, 2014, 10:00:00 am
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 30, 2014, 10:26:42 am
I'll be doing the same thing. CDisplay
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 10:32:13 am
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 11:02:31 am
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.

I have perpetual respect for you, Salustrade, and many members of the HEF.

This is just one of the rare issues we will perpetually disagree on. I'll respectfully leave it at that.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 30, 2014, 11:04:12 am
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.

Your statement is respectfully received and understood.

I will look upon the purchases of those 2 issues as a self-imposed penance.

Too many times I have depended upon your excellent scans and commentary as a means of keeping informed about stories in books I refused to buy myself.

I haven't made a comicbook purchase in well over a year. I suppose I have a few dollars I could throw at the first 2 issues of this book.

I probably would have spent some of that money on losing lottery tickets anyway  ;)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 11:23:16 am
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.

Your statement is respectfully received and understood.

I will look upon the purchases of those 2 issues as a self-imposed penance.

Too many times I have depended upon your excellent scans and commentary as a means of keeping informed about stories in books I refused to buy myself.

I haven't made a comicbook purchase in well over a year. I suppose I have a few dollars I could throw at the first 2 issues of this book.

I probably would have spent some of that money on losing lottery tickets anyway  ;)

Imo brutha sin, you are to be roundly commended and applauded for acting upon the desire to remain possessed of a personally informed opinion of the book Storm in the same way that your keen mind and probing intellect keeps you informed on many other topics.

I recall once, a well respected member of this forum years ago lashed at Priest's BP. He and I went round nad round about the book. And then I asked him how he is able to hold such a passionate opinion about a book he hasn't read and doesn't know about, yet condemn the Lovecrafties of the world who diss RH's book.

He relented. He read the entire CJP BP run. He loved it.

But even if he HATED it, he at least took the time to find out FOR HIMSELF exactly why.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 12:05:32 pm
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.

I have perpetual respect for you, Salustrade, and many members of the HEF.

This is just one of the rare issues we will perpetually disagree on. I'll respectfully leave it at that.

The respect is mutual my brother.  :)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 30, 2014, 02:11:29 pm
The amount of civility and respect you guys display inside HEF is a shining example of how to agree to disagree politely.

There are times I wish I possessed your level of intelligence, gentlemen.

I'm still learning.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 02:45:02 pm
The amount of civility and respect you guys display inside HEF is a shining example of how to agree to disagree politely.

There are times I wish I possessed your level of intelligence, gentlemen.

I'm still learning.

I have had my periods of uncivilty in the past so I'm no paragon of virtue.

I'm learning just like everyone else.  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 30, 2014, 04:38:07 pm
Then this show wont last too long.







Ugh!  (http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/47.gif)
You're right...

Randall Park who plays Governor Chung on 'Veep' seems to be a lead character on that show you just posted.  The show doesn't appear to be as ground breaking as 'All American Girl'; At least Margaret Cho had guest stars on her show (Tarantino comes to mind).
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on June 30, 2014, 04:40:54 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg)   (http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg)

(http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg)   (http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg)

let the master teacher tell it...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 05:01:17 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 05:48:20 pm
And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. Because the fact of the matter is? Pak can write his hindquarters off. For those who have reservations about him writing a Black person? Remember how he just KILT IT on WAR MACHINE.

Pak can do this.

Storm has long needed a series. And we can have the history making happenstance of a Black female lead in her own solo break into the shelves and be profitable. Thus opening up the market for more women of color, and more people PERIOD.

Learn to say YES to good things, people.

A black woman without a black-man? That’s not cultural appreciation. What legacy & who’s legacy is that representing? That's foreign interpretation & manipulation.

 “Power concedes nothing without a demand.”[/i] ~ Freddrick Douglas. Who’s demanding that a strong independent black women duke-it-out with other black people & be their savior?

Is it a business move or a passive opportunity to continue to control the image of black characters? They are monopolizing Storm. The idealism/ concepts (of the storm solo ) is already dysfunctional & distorted because it's not speaking to issues facing women of color. Just fan-boys, who don’t want to acknowledge... What doors are opening & who has all the keys... for a black female character? fan-boys... hhhmmmmm

They (the public) wants President Obama to appeal to a broader audience & not just blacks. The fan-boys only want Storm to appeal to them & not broader audiences. Am I right or wrong? Diversity!

Not the same ol’ same. Pak has the right to produce the comic as he sees fit. But when it comes to culture (African / Afro Cuban/ Caribbean) he has to come-up to a cultural standard & responsibility.  Not go down to please his demographic jus to secure sells. i'll wish them well, while I give them hell. Defending our women is our duty. We're fighting with them side by side. The solo has her fighting us. The same way she fought BP. It's a bad start. Skating on thin-ice for sure.     

I just completed a comic about the “Chinese Valentine’s.” I’m black! Do you think I depicted any stereo-typical images or concepts of Asians? 

I'm not trippin' or taking it too seriously. It's just a harsh-critique for an important subject matter. recognize!


this quote:

A black woman without a black-man? That’s not cultural appreciation. What legacy & who’s legacy is that representing? That's foreign interpretation & manipulation.


leaped out at me.

Perhaps I misunderstand you, and if so? Please help me to understand better.

But this right here...

...A black woman without a black-man? That’s not cultural appreciation. What legacy & who’s legacy is that representing? That's foreign interpretation & manipulation.


...is a vast nonsequitur. Supporting STORM the book is NOT the same as supporting the idea of a Black woman being without a Black man. In exactly the same sense that supporting TChalla without a built in Black Queen is NOT the same as supporting the idea that a Black man should be without a Black woman.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 30, 2014, 06:02:52 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!


Having so-called black men at odds somehow with so-called black women seems per the course in Marvel Comics period.

Nothing ever proceeds normally.

Ororo and T'Challa marry and then the marriage is annulled.

T'Challa is engaged to Monica Lynne. T'Challa is grievously injured and during his long recovery, Monica meets, falls in love with and becomes with white reporter Kevin Trudeau.

In some battle...it might have been during Civil War...Monica Rambeau squares off against Bishop.

Doctor Voodoo is only able to establish a romance with Monica Rambeau through magicks and chicanery, not through mutual attraction and interests.

Meanwhile, the recently single Misty Knight - clad most of the time in a teeny-weeny red bikini - practically throws herself at Daredevil as they team up to take down a man with whom Misty must have had a brief relationship. The man was so-called black and a criminal...naturally.

Now, there was Claire Temple and Luke Cage, but that relationship probably happened before most of you were out of diapers.

All this from a company who allows an albino so-called black super-villian who derives her power from her ability to generate extreme hatred to somehow fall in love with the white racist villian Grim Reaper...who eventually kills her.

The same company who had the lovely Calypso, another so-called black female, fall in love with a white villian - Kraven the Hunter or was it Kraven's son? Whoever it was, that white villian killed Calypso.

This same Marvel Comics which has never seemed to keen to establish a normal romantic relationship between a black female character and a black male character, marries a black male homosexual to a white male homosexual superhero, breaks up a romance between a black male mutant and his Asian mutant girlfriend only to "evolve" his character into a bisexual with a thing for a character resembling the Jolly Green Giant's offspring....this same Marvel Comics who killed off the black male mutant Synch just as his character was moving closer to a possible romance with the female mutant Monet St Croix...this same Marvel Comics who had a white male mutant who resembled a vulture impregnate a female mutant of color and who produced a love story featuring the animal mutant Beast slobbering into the mouth of black female mutant Cecelia Reyes...this same Marvel Comics who for decades has had the character Tyrone Johnson aka Cloak, involved in an unrequited love relationship with his blonde hair, blue eyed partner Tandy Bowen, aka Dagger.

This same Marvel Comics seems to have an unwritten but ironclad directive that no so-called black male/female intimate relationship should be established, let alone endure.

yeeeehawwww.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on June 30, 2014, 06:15:11 pm
>>>Sinjection1


Well, it's obvious that the current stable of writers at MARVEL know absolutely nothing about African American relationships dealing with love.
What these writers do seem familiar with is interracial relationships.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on June 30, 2014, 06:20:26 pm
>>>Sinjection1


Well, it's obvious that the current stable of writers at MARVEL know absolutely nothing about African American relationships dealing with love.
What these writers do seem familiar with is interracial relationships.

Do they (these writers), truly seem familiar with interracial relationships...or are they more comfortable portraying such relationships because there is at least one white character - a character in their comfort zone - they can cling to? Maybe these writers feel that black-on-black violence sells, but black love repels.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 06:34:07 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!


Having so-called black men at odds somehow with so-called black women seems per the course in Marvel Comics period.

Nothing ever proceeds normally.

Ororo and T'Challa marry and then the marriage is annulled.

T'Challa is engaged to Monica Lynne. T'Challa is grievously injured and during his long recovery, Monica meets, falls in love with and becomes with white reporter Kevin Trudeau.

In some battle...it might have been during Civil War...Monica Rambeau squares off against Bishop.

Doctor Voodoo is only able to establish a romance with Monica Rambeau through magicks and chicanery, not through mutual attraction and interests.

Meanwhile, the recently single Misty Knight - clad most of the time in a teeny-weeny red bikini - practically throws herself at Daredevil as they team up to take down a man with whom Misty must have had a brief relationship. The man was so-called black and a criminal...naturally.

Now, there was Claire Temple and Luke Cage, but that relationship probably happened before most of you were out of diapers.

All this from a company who allows an albino so-called black super-villian who derives her power from her ability to generate extreme hatred to somehow fall in love with the white racist villian Grim Reaper...who eventually kills her.

The same company who had the lovely Calypso, another so-called black female, fall in love with a white villian - Kraven the Hunter or was it Kraven's son? Whoever it was, that white villian killed Calypso.

This same Marvel Comics which has never seemed to keen to establish a normal romantic relationship between a black female character and a black male character, marries a black male homosexual to a white male homosexual superhero, breaks up a romance between a black male mutant and his Asian mutant girlfriend only to "evolve" his character into a bisexual with a thing for a character resembling the Jolly Green Giant's offspring....this same Marvel Comics who killed off the black male mutant Synch just as his character was moving closer to a possible romance with the female mutant Monet St Croix...this same Marvel Comics who had a white male mutant who resembled a vulture impregnate a female mutant of color and who produced a love story featuring the animal mutant Beast slobbering into the mouth of black female mutant Cecelia Reyes...this same Marvel Comics who for decades has had the character Tyrone Johnson aka Cloak, involved in an unrequited love relationship with his blonde hair, blue eyed partner Tandy Bowen, aka Dagger.

This same Marvel Comics seems to have an unwritten but ironclad directive that no so-called black male/female intimate relationship should be established, let alone endure.

yeeeehawwww.


Greg Pak?

http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/ (http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/)

The guy who took a overlooked Black tech armor guy and actually made him somebody unique with his own profile and removed him from being a knockoff Iron Man?

http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html (http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html)


Maybe not "yeehaaaw" for HIM. "Yeehaaawww" for most of Marvel insofar as overall presentation and whatnot?

Yeah I can see that.

Pak? Mmmm...we have his written books wherein he writes a Black superhero quite well indeed. And that's what he's fixin to do with STORM.

Pak has a proven POSITIVE history in this area. So...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he writes some garbage about Storm or somebody else of color.

He wrote that Green Guy purrty good...http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/ (http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/)

And so did one of my favorite guys, Peter David, who is waaaaayyyy too overlooked. Peter David is an AMAZING talent.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 06:36:18 pm
>>>Sinjection1


Well, it's obvious that the current stable of writers at MARVEL know absolutely nothing about African American relationships dealing with love.
What these writers do seem familiar with is interracial relationships.

Do they (these writers), truly seem familiar with interracial relationships...or are they more comfortable portraying such relationships because there is at least one white character - a character in their comfort zone - they can cling to? Maybe these writers feel that black-on-black violence sells, but black love repels.

combo of all 3. great eye, brutha
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 06:40:47 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!


Having so-called black men at odds somehow with so-called black women seems per the course in Marvel Comics period.

Nothing ever proceeds normally.

Ororo and T'Challa marry and then the marriage is annulled.

T'Challa is engaged to Monica Lynne. T'Challa is grievously injured and during his long recovery, Monica meets, falls in love with and becomes with white reporter Kevin Trudeau.

In some battle...it might have been during Civil War...Monica Rambeau squares off against Bishop.

Doctor Voodoo is only able to establish a romance with Monica Rambeau through magicks and chicanery, not through mutual attraction and interests.

Meanwhile, the recently single Misty Knight - clad most of the time in a teeny-weeny red bikini - practically throws herself at Daredevil as they team up to take down a man with whom Misty must have had a brief relationship. The man was so-called black and a criminal...naturally.

Now, there was Claire Temple and Luke Cage, but that relationship probably happened before most of you were out of diapers.

All this from a company who allows an albino so-called black super-villian who derives her power from her ability to generate extreme hatred to somehow fall in love with the white racist villian Grim Reaper...who eventually kills her.

The same company who had the lovely Calypso, another so-called black female, fall in love with a white villian - Kraven the Hunter or was it Kraven's son? Whoever it was, that white villian killed Calypso.

This same Marvel Comics which has never seemed to keen to establish a normal romantic relationship between a black female character and a black male character, marries a black male homosexual to a white male homosexual superhero, breaks up a romance between a black male mutant and his Asian mutant girlfriend only to "evolve" his character into a bisexual with a thing for a character resembling the Jolly Green Giant's offspring....this same Marvel Comics who killed off the black male mutant Synch just as his character was moving closer to a possible romance with the female mutant Monet St Croix...this same Marvel Comics who had a white male mutant who resembled a vulture impregnate a female mutant of color and who produced a love story featuring the animal mutant Beast slobbering into the mouth of black female mutant Cecelia Reyes...this same Marvel Comics who for decades has had the character Tyrone Johnson aka Cloak, involved in an unrequited love relationship with his blonde hair, blue eyed partner Tandy Bowen, aka Dagger.

This same Marvel Comics seems to have an unwritten but ironclad directive that no so-called black male/female intimate relationship should be established, let alone endure.

yeeeehawwww.


And what hurts the most, is that there are still some amongst us who stay making endless excuses for what can only be described as being a sustained resistance to the portrayal of Black on Black heterosexual love within the 616 MU.

(http://i61.tinypic.com/10crn1z.jpg)
(http://i60.tinypic.com/6g94b4.jpg)
(http://i43.tinypic.com/2cqbqso.jpg)

You get every single variation on love in the MU other than Black-on-Black but some amongst stay championing the X-office as being dedicated to diversity.

What a joke. :smh:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2rqyibm.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2urrqja.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on June 30, 2014, 06:47:18 pm
Ugh!  ([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/47.gif[/url])
You're right...

Randall Park who plays Governor Chung on 'Veep' seems to be a lead character on that show you just posted.  The show doesn't appear to be as ground breaking as 'All American Girl'; At least Margaret Cho had guest stars on her show (Tarantino comes to mind).
Then here is some more bad news. Right now ABC has a comedy with pretty much every minority now

Fresh Off the Boat (Asians)
ABC's Fresh Off The Boat - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOutgc-GG6g#ws)

Blackish (Afro Americans)
ABC's black-ish - Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNqqjDv6_dU#ws)

Cristela (Latinos)
Cristela - Trailer (ABC Network) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gX1GBEJ-2aQ#ws)

Goldbergs (Jewish) on to a second season.
The Goldbergs (ABC) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n43fM2wdu5A#ws)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 07:00:55 pm
I'm one of the few on this board who openly acknowledges that I liked the STORM miniseries. My kids' mother likes the miniseries. My oldest daughter likes the miniseries [ she's 17 ]. All of her friends who've read my miniseries [ which my daughter took it upon herself to share without asking me to do so ] also like the miniseries.

Many comic fans were repulsed from jumpstreet, though. Did a lot of that repulsion have a lot to do with a combination of ignorance of, disrespect for, and racism and resentment toward Black Panther as the premier Black male superhero in comics?

Yes. There is no denying such. Even when the Storm fans first rushed HEF to besiege us, the inital purpose and interaction was definitely confrontational. And this is on top of the Three Headed Monsters and Lovecrafties of the world.

Okay. Let's look at the EJD sex scene. Because that's the real static that people have.

(http://worldofblackheroes.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/storm4-1.jpg)

Is that disrespectful of the characters? No. However, when we project various AMERICAN VALUES upon it, will SOME PEOPLE get offended? Yes, of course.

Are AMERICAN VALUES the operating dominant moral compass of these AFRIKAN HEROES with deeper souls, and of lineagesat least 8000 years older than America is actually operating off of American values? No. There ya are. Stop being Ugly Americans.

 And kill that statutory rape nonsense, because that's not the law in traditional Africa. Stop superimposing Americanized, Westernized morals and ignorance upon a much older and much more mature AFRIKAN NOT AMERICAN civilization. Before that? The people who had already decided to dislike the idea of the book and the marriage and these two characters who are clearly a terrific and nigh perfect match for each other actually could only hang their hat on the rather dubious and essentially substanceless argument that EJD didn't have TChalla get saved by Ororo.

Yeah. The Crown Prince of a civilization that's rockin Top 100 Tech in the galaxy...reeeaaaallllly doesn't need to be saved by a young lady who hasn't yet gotten a grip on her powers yet. Which brings me to this question here. Does the original story reflect the supergenius of TChalla? Would a GROWN ADULT SUPERGENIUS SUPERSTRATEGIST PRINCE of THE GREATEST HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN HUMAN HISTORY actually dress talk and act like this?

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla2.jpg)

Hell naw. That's what's wrong with the whole original story, and that's why the whole original story needs to get retconned.

Would that same princeling on his Walkabout, seeking to hide his actual identity from easy visual determination, blending into the general masses and thus without his hypertech, retinue of servants warriors bodyguards powerful sorcerers etc...[ the Walkabout is an actual tradition in Africa which is similar to one of the Rites of Passage that we celebrate in my own family btw ]...dress and act like THIS, given the time period and the prevalent political climate of the world and Africa?

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla9.jpg)

(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ororotchalla10.jpg)

Yes.

That rendition is much more sensible and realistic.

He doesn't need to be saved by a girl who hasn't gotten a grip on her powers yet. And given the Marvel canon about mutant powers manifesting during the teenage years? That tack taken by EJD rings true, too. However. Once said young lady locks in her powers? Yeah. THE GALAXY needs to be saved by her. THE UNIVERSE TOO. Multiple times. And let's not forget...she saved an entire city, and a whole countryside...inclusive of TChalla...by the end of the book. And clowned her rival. With class, I might add.

She wasn't the slowest zebra anymore.

So yeah. The critics of the EJD miniseries? They all have different reasons for their repulsion...but. Bottom line? I think there's a lot of skipping of a lot of content in the miniseries in order to harp and imo blow out of proportion the sex scene and the fact that TChalla wasn't a D-Lister in need of help from anyone...and at that point in their lives? He SHOULD enjoy a PRONOUNCED advantage over Ororo, until her control of her powers kick in.

None of that stuff I mentioned gets addressed.

Let me tell you something else that the sex scene made clear: Black Love is still threatening to a lot of people in the LCBRD. It wasn't just bad enough that EJD showed that two teenagers who loved each other actually had sex [ because that NEVER happens across the world, across racial ethnic political class cultural and other lines; nope ] what really got their goat was that Ororo was ALSO bangin TChalla in RH's miniseries. Maxine Shaw once had a sig that read: "Ororo, Queen of Wakanda. She's Black AND F#ck!ng" or something to that effect.

(http://oi41.tinypic.com/103hdvo.jpg)

And that reality liked to have scoured the flesh off of most people having a problem with The Marriage. Because these two being Black, Afrikan, unbowed, without needing any White character leading anything at all or even being anywhere at all in their general cast, more powerful than any married cape couple in Marvel history, and featured everywhere in the big crossover events...was just too much.

Despite all that shade, EJD still sold in the low to high 20k's. Had the shade been ameliorated even a little? He'd have hit round 40k monthly. And the BP ongoing would have hit even more.

 http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-03.html (http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-03.html)



Was Ororo playing second fiddle in the talks TChalla and Namor had? Nope. Was she less involved in the discussion than TChalla was? Yep. She did not know the real reason that TChalla joined The Avengers, so she couldn't act like she DID know something that SHE DID NOT know. However, it was she...not TChalla...who checked Namor. In Atlantis. In his throne room. And...uh...she was getting infinitely more shine, a much more prominent position, and possessed of far more relevancy MU wide as Queen of Wakanda than at any time she ever spent in the X-books. Literally. Not even CC got close to what Hudlin did for Ororo. Real talk.

This is how THEY introduced Storm:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lNFdcpcj-PA/TdIXFKpwbAI/AAAAAAAAKhU/MedMs5BZHCA/s1600/gs%252Bxmen%252B1%252Bstorm.jpg)


Not from the unashamed mature humanity embracing body beautiful cultural perspective of Africa, but from the sexually titillating fetishist perspective dominant in the psyche of most White Americans and especially White young to middle age males at the time this pic was crafted.

With Reginald Hudlin...in 6 or so issues...RH had such far reaching impact that Ororo was featured in every major Marvel event and in multiple books that wouldn't even touch her before. At her most popular, under CC's pen? Storm was a NONENTITY outside of the X-books.


Reginald Hudlin, in the space of 6 issues, had Ororo doing more than the X-office had her do in nearly 20 years. When was the last time that Ororo squared off with someone Clor-like?

(http://bp0.blogger.com/_cq-h1RCj4yI/SEJagkkq9CI/AAAAAAAAAxc/4p-QCnhJmGk/s1600-h/ororo.gif)

Yep. The Asgardian Wars. 20 or so years ago. Pause and let that marinate. TWENTY OR SO YEARS AGO. And remember? Loki CLOWNED HER with ONE MOVE. Didn't Claremont write that?  Yes, he did. Under Reginald Hudlin's pen? Storm backs down Iron Man when he shows up at the Wakandan Embassy trying to be a boss.

Under RH's pen, STORM DROPS CLOR WITH A EMP.

(http://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/thorstorm1.jpg)

Now. Who's being the most appreciative of and respectful to Storm, again? Didn't THIS happen under Chris Claremont?

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/2/29818/689102-storm40.jpg)


When you look at the substance of the work of RH and the benefits of Ororo being married to TChalla which afforded other writers the option to use Ororo too. Adn it's clear that everyone knows that Ororo is an equal partner in her marriage with TChalla. McDuffie wrote it...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/1/18863/2532277-screen_shot_2012_08_14_at_3.31.41_pm.png)

RH wrote it...

(http://www.dailyraider.com/comics/readytodie/malcolmx.jpg)

And haters...who didn't read RH's book, mind you, for the most part...hated it with that special intensity that only abysmal ignorance can bring.

Don't forget. For the first time in world comic book history, we see a royal Black superheroic married couple traveling the cosmos WITHOUT having to rely on White folks for anything. We see at last this heterosexual couple frequently on panel together [ seriously, think back. When was the last time that you saw two Black superheroes together forming thee most powerful married couple in comics, both from The Big Two, both deeply in love and constantly shown on the same panel together. Supportive of each other. For not just pages or books but arcs and whole runs? Answer: NEVER EVER. None before RH. None after him ] showing them working together as a team that has not only the power to defeat enemies physically...

[ and you know that I can't pass up the fact that THIS pic giving TCHALLA vastly overdue props got the LCBRD hooowwwwlliiiing with hatred ]:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37/Nightmareman95/NM95/wow5uz9.jpg)

And THESE got shade, too, although not as much as the previous SS arm bar:

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11112/111123445/3269365-49a2b56884cbab459335b9855b6fe070_zps59f2c97a.jpg)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3483144-parker+1.jpg)

(http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s417/KingMichael777/Comics/1289773-untitled1_zps87602d99.jpg)

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111119363/3726645-compare.jpg)


TChalla and Ororo also showed the brilliance resources strategic cunning teamwork and knowhow to pull leverage on powerful extraterrestrial entities

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/RhPANEbqteI/AAAAAAAAB_0/Nq9BXQJ5F4s/s1600/Fantastic%2BFour%2B544-2.JPG (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/RhPANEbqteI/AAAAAAAAB_0/Nq9BXQJ5F4s/s1600/Fantastic%2BFour%2B544-2.JPG)


queen Ororo is an equal above and everywhere else. She is NOT a cheerleader. She is NOT second fiddle. And she is presented as NOT being second fiddle by RH and everyone else who respects and "gets" the character.



So let's see. A guy who is in canon being shown having contingency plans to take on Galactus like Black Panther is...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/5/50188/1086966-bp_contingency_plan_for_galactus.jpg)

Really ain't worried about Norrin Radd aka Silver Surfer, who owes his power to Galactus.

However, the LCBRD haaaateed on TChalla. Despite his capability in that regard being well well established in canon...buut they are cool with the idea of Hawkeye taking on Ultron

(http://www.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/60479/HawkeyeEE.jpg2.jpg)

Now. When has Hawkeye EVER shown any aptitude or ability to take on Ultron?

I'm waiting.

Never? Thought so. But Hawkeye taking on Ultron is "cool". TChalla taking on SS is catches shade like the dark side of the moon.

Like sin and Sal said. Most of the static isn't rooted in legit issues dealing with legit characterization and story plot. Most of the rabid backlash comes from deep seated dual desires: to keep Ororo as 'their" exotic wallflower piece unsullied by any Black man, aaand "their" deep discomfort with TChalla because of who and what he is. Especially when a skilled Black scribe is writing him.

Ororo will catch a very similar level of intense shade when she permanently takes herself off of The Fetish Farm and establishes herself as a true Afrikan superhero who is every bit as much a mutant as she is regal, Afrakan, and unconquerable. Like Yost said...she doesn't have to choose between Worlds Apart. She symbolizes Worlds United.

Her LCBRD fanbase though? Not so much.


How did I miss this most excellent post.  8)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 07:03:41 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!


Having so-called black men at odds somehow with so-called black women seems per the course in Marvel Comics period.

Nothing ever proceeds normally.

Ororo and T'Challa marry and then the marriage is annulled.

T'Challa is engaged to Monica Lynne. T'Challa is grievously injured and during his long recovery, Monica meets, falls in love with and becomes with white reporter Kevin Trudeau.

In some battle...it might have been during Civil War...Monica Rambeau squares off against Bishop.

Doctor Voodoo is only able to establish a romance with Monica Rambeau through magicks and chicanery, not through mutual attraction and interests.

Meanwhile, the recently single Misty Knight - clad most of the time in a teeny-weeny red bikini - practically throws herself at Daredevil as they team up to take down a man with whom Misty must have had a brief relationship. The man was so-called black and a criminal...naturally.

Now, there was Claire Temple and Luke Cage, but that relationship probably happened before most of you were out of diapers.

All this from a company who allows an albino so-called black super-villian who derives her power from her ability to generate extreme hatred to somehow fall in love with the white racist villian Grim Reaper...who eventually kills her.

The same company who had the lovely Calypso, another so-called black female, fall in love with a white villian - Kraven the Hunter or was it Kraven's son? Whoever it was, that white villian killed Calypso.

This same Marvel Comics which has never seemed to keen to establish a normal romantic relationship between a black female character and a black male character, marries a black male homosexual to a white male homosexual superhero, breaks up a romance between a black male mutant and his Asian mutant girlfriend only to "evolve" his character into a bisexual with a thing for a character resembling the Jolly Green Giant's offspring....this same Marvel Comics who killed off the black male mutant Synch just as his character was moving closer to a possible romance with the female mutant Monet St Croix...this same Marvel Comics who had a white male mutant who resembled a vulture impregnate a female mutant of color and who produced a love story featuring the animal mutant Beast slobbering into the mouth of black female mutant Cecelia Reyes...this same Marvel Comics who for decades has had the character Tyrone Johnson aka Cloak, involved in an unrequited love relationship with his blonde hair, blue eyed partner Tandy Bowen, aka Dagger.

This same Marvel Comics seems to have an unwritten but ironclad directive that no so-called black male/female intimate relationship should be established, let alone endure.

yeeeehawwww.


Greg Pak?

[url]http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/[/url] ([url]http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/[/url])

The guy who took a overlooked Black tech armor guy and actually made him somebody unique with his own profile and removed him from being a knockoff Iron Man?

[url]http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html[/url])


Maybe not "yeehaaaw" for HIM. "Yeehaaawww" for most of Marvel insofar as overall presentation and whatnot?

Yeah I can see that.

Pak? Mmmm...we have his written books wherein he writes a Black superhero quite well indeed. And that's what he's fixin to do with STORM.

Pak has a proven POSITIVE history in this area. So...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he writes some garbage about Storm or somebody else of color.

He wrote that Green Guy purrty good...[url]http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/[/url] ([url]http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/[/url])

And so did one of my favorite guys, Peter David, who is waaaaayyyy too overlooked. Peter David is an AMAZING talent.


Greg Pak's Planet Hulk moved me on an emotional level so there's no questioning of his writing acumen on my part.

What I do have a problem with is this.....


(http://38.media.tumblr.com/cecf2572de689c93ba0690ea1d80d64f/tumblr_n7shnzGA7O1sde1x1o3_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on June 30, 2014, 07:14:30 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on June 30, 2014, 07:17:21 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?

Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 07:26:29 pm
Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire evil human army (where you can see their faces), and not have said army be black men?


(http://www.comixbrew.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bpsi3.jpg)

Most of this issue...

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_small/3/32897/1253939-o___the_dm.jpg)

And a bunch more.

Just to bring the point home? The recent RoLo pairing and breakup ain't the first time they swapped spit.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N3YNwuqp8Fs/TXG8bBl33BI/AAAAAAAAEGk/ABPnv9HJyNs/s1600/wolverine%2Bstorm.jpg)

I wasn't a major fan of it back then, either. I always thought she should be with TChalla, but moreso...as much as I liked Logan back then...I didn't think he's a good enough person for her. Back then, I couldn't shake the feeling that he'd have one berserker rage too many and he'd do something like this to her:

(http://nomoremutants.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Photo-8_17_13-11.35.59-PM-2.png)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 07:27:29 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?

Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.

You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 30, 2014, 07:28:43 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?

It's the only kind of army she can beat, white ones use one man who always leave her unconscious, tied up, de powered and drooling on the floor

And the fans stay silent until a year later then you'll see a casual mention of not liking that here and there
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on June 30, 2014, 07:31:23 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?

It's the only kind of army she can beat, white ones use one man who always leave her unconscious, tied up, de powered and drooling on the floor

And the fans stay silent until a year later then you'll see a casual mention of not liking that here and there

Noticed that. Stopped loving that...and stopped buying X-books...long ago.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on June 30, 2014, 09:47:35 pm
If enough folks stop buying it.......maybe just maybe and this is a insane idea......someone at Marvel( since the x-office doesn't give a sh*t ) might notice and switch it up
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 01, 2014, 12:20:14 am
>>>Sinjection1


Well, it's obvious that the current stable of writers at MARVEL know absolutely nothing about African American relationships dealing with love.
What these writers do seem familiar with is interracial relationships.


Do they (these writers), truly seem familiar with interracial relationships...or are they more comfortable portraying such relationships because there is at least one white character - a character in their comfort zone - they can cling to? Maybe these writers feel that black-on-black violence sells, but black love repels.


combo of all 3. great eye, brutha


And what hurts the most, is that there are still some amongst us who stay making endless excuses for what can only be described as being a sustained resistance to the portrayal of Black on Black heterosexual love within the 616 MU.

([url]http://i61.tinypic.com/10crn1z.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i60.tinypic.com/6g94b4.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i43.tinypic.com/2cqbqso.jpg[/url])

You get every single variation on love in the MU other than Black-on-Black but some amongst stay championing the X-office as being dedicated to diversity.

What a joke. :smh:

([url]http://i44.tinypic.com/2rqyibm.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i40.tinypic.com/2urrqja.jpg[/url])


Now, Brothers...here is what we're dealing with:

Nezhno/Gentle --- revealed to be the biracial offspring of a Russian father and a Wakandan mother. The Russian father is nowhere to be found. The Wakandan mother and the Wakandan people reject Nezhno leaving that character no choice but to return to the only "family" he'd ever known...those mutants.

Kraven The Hunter --- another Russian who leaves his native land, migrates to Africa where he discovers a talent for big game hunting, a Congolese "witch doctor's" formula for enhancing his strength and abilities, and a lust for black women. He seeds the continent like some bizarro Johnny Appleseed. He meets Calypso and they have some sort of "wicked attraction" wherein Kraven feels he must destroy Spider-Man to secure Calypso's love, a love he is already assured of as Calypso is already smitten...but she still goads him time and again into attacking Spider-Man.

Mandrill --- the white male mutant born into a mandrill ape's body and given the power to attract women with his pheremones, teams up with the albino black female mutant Nekra. They wind their way to Africa where Mandrill uses his powers to seduce black women into painting their faces to resemble mandrills becoming in effect his combination "harem/army".

But when it comes to creating meaningful relationships between a so-called black male character and a so-called black female character...they simply can't bring themselves to do it. The company held its nose and allowed R. Hudlin the opportunity to attempt to create such a relationship between two of its flagship so-called black characters and we see how that turned out.

I heard someone say "Fair is a place where they judge pigs."  If we are looking for fairness, for justice...for common courtesy where the black fan's expectations might be attended to, we are looking to the wrong company. If we're not careful they'll hook up T'Challa with one of their white beauties...a "gem" of a character with a name to match.

The next Marriage of the Century will feature the groom: T'Challa, the Black Panther and the lovely reformed Alpha Flight criminal herself...Pink Pearl.

Don't you believe for one minute they won't do it.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 01, 2014, 01:20:37 am
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/ (http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on July 01, 2014, 03:59:07 am
whose?

Storm vs. African Traditions

We’ve discussed all aspects of Wakanda to piece together the authenticity.
language , architecture, population, politics, technology, education, economy etc. When I mention traditions... deaf ears.


(1st image) Queen Khamerernebty II & Pharoah Menkaure, 4th Dynasty of the Old Kingdom (2465 BC).
Notice her arm around his waist. That symbolizes/ represents “I got your back.” The Queen is always shown “Supporting” the King. In reality women choose men & not the other way around. "Behind every good-man is a good woman." they understood, did you? She is stating, "I choose him & I'm standing behind my decision."   hhmmmm

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8BugnXoC7dsiRGnuywDE_zatMtHxdjJ7eL0qHw8MDpEVid73u:media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/236x/d3/ce/1a/d3ce1ae4107f3088ec3e773d9534b40f.jpg)  (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR5j38bVtkskPrWnUI5fTxTJ6w9HB-UIF7BZS_mgBOdWGZzfk5VNQ:www.madisonmorrison.com/topics/henotheism-and-the-gods-of-ancient-egypt/16-osiris-isis-small.jpg)  (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQARrHnFWnRpwzXPrEh_gdRT9OykMEK9lmNR9MvZvgHAY40tjvl8A:www.claseshistoria.com/bilingue/1eso/egypt/imagenes/isis-osiris.png)  (http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLG2HZRPHfXDhR9NgG8AdPy6BLr8dOBCFSrK7ngGQySCGMLaNwlw:www.happehtheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/EgyptianYinYang-Kaipu.jpg) (http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6MXzLq6UdtMr3Py8l9WFIW-w1aoGs7c8Sr2zAvC2IzJg4Xfe4:static5.depositphotos.com/1035187/464/i/450/depositphotos_4643766-Frescos-and-hieroglyphs-on-a-wall-of-the-Egyptian-temple.jpg)

the women also support the men because...
The (cultural) system- the women create the laws- the men enforce the laws.


Tchallah would not divorce Storm & she would not divorce him. The marriage was compromised to control Storm. It’s a misrepresentation of  Wakandan (African) tradition. I can prove it!!!!

Wakanda is a sub-nation of Kemet (Egypt) & a Nile-Valley civilization. The man/woman balance is a part of that culture. Blacks today have adopted or have been assimilated into someone else’s belief system. that's basic 101. That's not authenticity! The corrupt side of Enculturation-

Enculturation is the process where the culture that is currently established teaches an individual the accepted norms and values of the culture or society where the individual lives. The individual can become an accepted member and fulfill the needed functions and roles of the group. Most importantly the individual knows and establishes a context of boundaries and accepted behavior that dictates what is acceptable and not acceptable within the framework of that society. It teaches the individual their role within society as well as what is accepted behavior within that society and lifestyle.


Storm vs. Wakandan Traditions
Storm vs. Wakandan Authenticity

Any solo Storm further deviants & dishonors something greater than comic-books. Send her back to make things right. Don't play with culture to please a demographic. Learn your own history, because they don't give a damn about it! That's what I thought!   

 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 01, 2014, 06:49:47 am
After doomwar when it seemed he'd lost his "mojo" and all that went with it - rulership of Wakanda; Wakanda had lost that which made her unique in the world and wealthy beyond measure, the Vibranium; "she" had been toppled from her lofty perch as the proud, unconquered jewel she had once been to a low and vulnerable place where she had to depend upon the largesse of others to regain her footing...many of those "others" helping to do so were mutants who would eventually return and knock once - mighty Wakanda to her knees yet again...and having lost the respect of his people, was in the process of losing the amorous love of his Queen and was recovering from nearly losing his mind and his life, T'Challa decided he needed to "find himself". To accomplish this, he took leave of Wakanda, took leave of Africa determined to prove himself by becoming the head cook in "Hell's Kitchen".

In somewhat similar straits it seems, Ororo - who is about to endure the death of "her one true love" and likely beset by other tribulations - decides to borrow a page from her ex-husband's book. Unlike T'Challa, Ororo will "take off around the world on a one-woman peacekeeping mission". The Panther took care of Hell's Kitchen. Storm has decided she is going to put the rest of Hell's House in order apparently beginning in the Foyer of the home - the Caribbean - where she promptly puts the unruly black staff of butlers back in their place!!! From there it appears she will proceed into the Sitting Room, through the Family Room, into the toilets cleaning up any gross mess to be found in those quarters, the Dining Area...everywhere in the Hell's House except the Kitchen. T'Challa has been there. T'Challa has done that. And as she continues this Hell's housekeeping...er uhmmm..."peacekeeping mission", she will become "literally the greatest hero on the planet."

Is that anything like being "the most important mutant in the world" as she was told by her erstwhile - "he dead" - mutant mentor, Prof X on the day of the MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY?  I suppose not. It must be something even greater than that. But hold on now....wasn't worldwide peacekeeping and protection something Ororo as "leader of the mighty Blue Team of the X-Men", something she should have been doing instead of getting bad haircuts and bad sex from her trollish heartthrob? I suppose I'll learn something from the contents of the two issues of this ongoing I've committed myself to purchase.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 01, 2014, 12:15:24 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

[url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url] ([url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url])


I have to add one more thing: X-Treme X-Men issue 1 (or 2), Storm took out an entire squad of the Guardia, a premier elite, secretive military force in Spain with an electromagnetic pulse. No Blacks in that group.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 01, 2014, 01:30:51 pm
http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2014/06/27/alternate-histories-an-interview-with-greg-pak/ (http://weeklycomicbookreview.com/2014/06/27/alternate-histories-an-interview-with-greg-pak/)

Pak discusses Storm in the second part of the interview.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 01, 2014, 03:03:53 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

[url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url] ([url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url])


I have to add one more thing: X-Treme X-Men issue 1 (or 2), Storm took out an entire squad of the Guardia, a premier elite, secretive military force in Spain with an electromagnetic pulse. No Blacks in that group.


THANK YOU, Rutog98!!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 01, 2014, 04:05:19 pm
>>>Sinjection1


Well, it's obvious that the current stable of writers at MARVEL know absolutely nothing about African American relationships dealing with love.
What these writers do seem familiar with is interracial relationships.

It's not just Marvel, but DC Comics and other forms of media (television and movies) are doing the same exact thing: keeping black men and black women romantically apart from one another.

It's an agenda, and in just about all forms of media, it's a war against black couples, and we are losing.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 01, 2014, 04:08:36 pm
I’m not supporting anything representing women of color (storm) fighting black-men. We fight together not each other. have her fight them...

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/668d1139f76c1bebf3f592bd85079dd3/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso7_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://31.media.tumblr.com/9cb696ec3bf7a953ec2d375988ddf14c/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso4_400.jpg[/url])

([url]http://37.media.tumblr.com/335d48653d1f8bcaf8d9df6534548491/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso1_400.jpg[/url])   ([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/9a126958ac7147de03537dc3d6b2a660/tumblr_n4sou9vpJr1t0taiso6_400.jpg[/url])

let the master teacher tell it...


Having Ororo attack Black men is per the course in X-books.

Pak is just continuing that good ol' boys tradition.

Yeeeehaaaaaaaw!


Having so-called black men at odds somehow with so-called black women seems per the course in Marvel Comics period.

Nothing ever proceeds normally.

Ororo and T'Challa marry and then the marriage is annulled.

T'Challa is engaged to Monica Lynne. T'Challa is grievously injured and during his long recovery, Monica meets, falls in love with and becomes with white reporter Kevin Trudeau.

In some battle...it might have been during Civil War...Monica Rambeau squares off against Bishop.

Doctor Voodoo is only able to establish a romance with Monica Rambeau through magicks and chicanery, not through mutual attraction and interests.

Meanwhile, the recently single Misty Knight - clad most of the time in a teeny-weeny red bikini - practically throws herself at Daredevil as they team up to take down a man with whom Misty must have had a brief relationship. The man was so-called black and a criminal...naturally.

Now, there was Claire Temple and Luke Cage, but that relationship probably happened before most of you were out of diapers.

All this from a company who allows an albino so-called black super-villian who derives her power from her ability to generate extreme hatred to somehow fall in love with the white racist villian Grim Reaper...who eventually kills her.

The same company who had the lovely Calypso, another so-called black female, fall in love with a white villian - Kraven the Hunter or was it Kraven's son? Whoever it was, that white villian killed Calypso.

This same Marvel Comics which has never seemed to keen to establish a normal romantic relationship between a black female character and a black male character, marries a black male homosexual to a white male homosexual superhero, breaks up a romance between a black male mutant and his Asian mutant girlfriend only to "evolve" his character into a bisexual with a thing for a character resembling the Jolly Green Giant's offspring....this same Marvel Comics who killed off the black male mutant Synch just as his character was moving closer to a possible romance with the female mutant Monet St Croix...this same Marvel Comics who had a white male mutant who resembled a vulture impregnate a female mutant of color and who produced a love story featuring the animal mutant Beast slobbering into the mouth of black female mutant Cecelia Reyes...this same Marvel Comics who for decades has had the character Tyrone Johnson aka Cloak, involved in an unrequited love relationship with his blonde hair, blue eyed partner Tandy Bowen, aka Dagger.

This same Marvel Comics seems to have an unwritten but ironclad directive that no so-called black male/female intimate relationship should be established, let alone endure.

yeeeehawwww.


Greg Pak?

[url]http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/[/url] ([url]http://www.gregpak.com/war_machine/[/url])

The guy who took a overlooked Black tech armor guy and actually made him somebody unique with his own profile and removed him from being a knockoff Iron Man?

[url]http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/1502-greasing-the-gears-greg-pak-talks-war-machine.html[/url])


Maybe not "yeehaaaw" for HIM. "Yeehaaawww" for most of Marvel insofar as overall presentation and whatnot?

Yeah I can see that.

Pak? Mmmm...we have his written books wherein he writes a Black superhero quite well indeed. And that's what he's fixin to do with STORM.

Pak has a proven POSITIVE history in this area. So...I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until he writes some garbage about Storm or somebody else of color.

He wrote that Green Guy purrty good...[url]http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/[/url] ([url]http://them0vieblog.com/2012/04/27/greg-paks-run-on-the-incredible-hulk-with-jeff-parker-fall-of-the-hulks-review/[/url])

And so did one of my favorite guys, Peter David, who is waaaaayyyy too overlooked. Peter David is an AMAZING talent.


Wasn't it Greg Pak who wrote an alternate-universe tale where Storm was romantically hooked up with Thor and also Pak who provided us with that alternate universe X-Men story where a cover showed Storm and Cyclops kissing?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 01, 2014, 04:14:38 pm
Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire evil human army (where you can see their faces), and not have said army be black men?


([url]http://www.comixbrew.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/bpsi3.jpg[/url])

Most of this issue...

([url]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_small/3/32897/1253939-o___the_dm.jpg[/url])

And a bunch more.

Just to bring the point home? The recent RoLo pairing and breakup ain't the first time they swapped spit.

([url]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N3YNwuqp8Fs/TXG8bBl33BI/AAAAAAAAEGk/ABPnv9HJyNs/s1600/wolverine%2Bstorm.jpg[/url])

I wasn't a major fan of it back then, either. I always thought she should be with TChalla, but moreso...as much as I liked Logan back then...I didn't think he's a good enough person for her. Back then, I couldn't shake the feeling that he'd have one berserker rage too many and he'd do something like this to her:

([url]http://nomoremutants.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Photo-8_17_13-11.35.59-PM-2.png[/url])


The weasel known as Logan has never been and never will be good enough for Storm. He literally stinks as a character, as evidenced as canon in a very recent X-Men book where Beast said he might be able to come up with a way to make the weasel have a less offensive odor.

Marvel saw fit to rip Ororo out of the arms of a black man who smelled great and throw her into the arms of a white man who smells like a dead wet dog. And now that THAT fling is kaput, they'll show her with her hand on Forge's shoulder, because, you know...
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 01, 2014, 04:42:24 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

[url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url] ([url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url])


I have to add one more thing: X-Treme X-Men issue 1 (or 2), Storm took out an entire squad of the Guardia, a premier elite, secretive military force in Spain with an electromagnetic pulse. No Blacks in that group.


THANK YOU, Rutog98!!


I'm not sure what you're thanking dude for since he was only able to find ONE incidence of Storm bringing the pain to a non-black set of soldiers weighed against the multiple incidences of similar martial actions against a plethora of Black combatants leading up to this....

(http://i57.tinypic.com/sb5uu8.jpg)

You know heads are scraping the bottom of the barrel in desperation to shore up a threadbare argument. :smh:

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: JRCarter on July 01, 2014, 04:55:19 pm

The weasel known as Logan has never been and never will be good enough for Storm. He literally stinks as a character, as evidenced as canon in a very recent X-Men book where Beast said he might be able to come up with a way to make the weasel have a less offensive odor.

Marvel saw fit to rip Ororo out of the arms of a black man who smelled great and throw her into the arms of a white man who smells like a dead wet dog. And now that THAT fling is kaput, they'll show her with her hand on Forge's shoulder, because, you know...

Yeah, at least she's not with a Black man.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 01, 2014, 05:00:01 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

[url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url] ([url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url])


I have to add one more thing: X-Treme X-Men issue 1 (or 2), Storm took out an entire squad of the Guardia, a premier elite, secretive military force in Spain with an electromagnetic pulse. No Blacks in that group.


THANK YOU, Rutog98!!


I'm not sure what you're thanking dude for since he was only able to find ONE incidence of Storm bringing the pain to a non-black set of soldiers weighed against the multiple incidences of similar martial actions against a plethora of Black combatants leading up to this....

([url]http://i57.tinypic.com/sb5uu8.jpg[/url])

You know heads are scraping the bottom of the barrel in desperation to shore up a threadbare argument. :smh:


That's not true. In Claremont's original telling of Storm and T'challa's meeting, who did she attack? She attacked White men who had no super powers at all thus interceding on T'challa's behalf. Also, in "God Loves, Man Kills 2", Storm, along with her team of X-Men, took out a group of militant-types.

Thing is this, when Storm/The X-Men go to predominately White nations, the threat is usually going to be a super powered individual since its the western nations (Europe and the US, especially) that are industrialized. This makes them bigger targets for super villains than the third world nations. I mean, why would Magneto attack the Congo? If I wanted to take over the world, I would target the US, Europe, China and places like that first. I would not even consider nations like Sudan, Congo, Nigeria, etc. They are not really huge threats to a villain with the power and ambition to truly try and take over the world. Once the big non-African countries fall, everything else is downhill from there (save Wakanda). So, the people who threaten the majority African nations are going to be people within the community there. In other words, local threats.

All that said, I think its nitpicky to try and take a shot at the writing in this matter. Overwhelmingly, Storm's adversaries are White regardless if they are powerless or not. Her personal nemesis are Candra (White), Callisto (White), Shadow King (psychic entity), Mystique (European, used to be Storm's nemesis back in the day), Emma Frost (back in the day),  Dracula (White), etc. Notice not one of them is Black. In the MU, there are far more White characters with superhuman powers than Black ones. So, when Storm encounters Black adversaries, they are usually going to be without powers.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 01, 2014, 05:17:33 pm

The weasel known as Logan has never been and never will be good enough for Storm. He literally stinks as a character, as evidenced as canon in a very recent X-Men book where Beast said he might be able to come up with a way to make the weasel have a less offensive odor.

Marvel saw fit to rip Ororo out of the arms of a black man who smelled great and throw her into the arms of a white man who smells like a dead wet dog. And now that THAT fling is kaput, they'll show her with her hand on Forge's shoulder, because, you know...

Yeah, at least she's not with a Black man.

You know Ororo knew she was slumming when she was with the troll and that she felt shame for doing so.

How do I know this to be the case? Seeking assistance from Logan, the character Deadpool once walked into a bedroom which appeared to be occupied by the troll himself lying in bed among the rumpled bedclothes. There was no evidence that anyone else was in the room or in the bed with him. Once the conversation between Deadpool and Logan had ended with the troll refusing to assist Deadpool with his dilemna, Deadpool left the room but before doing so, greeted Ororo who had been hiding beneath the covers.

Ororo was ashamed to be seen under those circumstances dreading that Deadpool would surely know why she was in bed with stinky Logan and what they had been doing between those sheets, funky smelling sheets to be sure.

This was never the case when she was enjoying the ecstasy of the perks of wedded bliss with her ex-husband, T'Challa.

When Ororo made love with T'Challa everybody knew what was happening and Ororo couldn't have cared less about it. In fact, she probably wanted the world to know of her sensational sensual state of body and mind. When the Wakandan Royals made love to each other, the heavens themselves roared with delight. We would all shudder with horror contemplating what manner of noises were emitted during post-coital RoLo activity.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 01, 2014, 05:25:11 pm

The weasel known as Logan has never been and never will be good enough for Storm. He literally stinks as a character, as evidenced as canon in a very recent X-Men book where Beast said he might be able to come up with a way to make the weasel have a less offensive odor.

Marvel saw fit to rip Ororo out of the arms of a black man who smelled great and throw her into the arms of a white man who smells like a dead wet dog. And now that THAT fling is kaput, they'll show her with her hand on Forge's shoulder, because, you know...
Yeah, at least she's not with a Black man.

*sigh* I really didn't want to talk about this, but I will. The whole Ororo/Logan pairing did not come out of left field. Storm fans have been clamoring for years for these two to get together. I have always been against this pairing for reasons I have already discussed at length on this board. For Wolverine, Jean Grey will always be his first pick, though he is NOT her first pick. If he were her first pick, she would have married him instead of Cyclops. Pairing Storm (or any woman) with Logan makes her a consolation prize. She's too good of a character for that. One of the reasons I was open to the idea of Storm and BP being rushed into marriage is prior to that, she and Logan were going on dates and stuff.  They were not yet an item as she was also going on dates with Nightcrawler, but the risk of her being with Logan loomed on the horizon for me. I don't want that. When Panther and Storm broke up, Marvel simply resumed the budding relationship that was brewing between Storm and Logan (Nightcrawler was dead at the time...he's gotten over that now, lol) and put a twist on it to jab a Panther. This was done not because Panther is Black, but because there was a certain enmity between the two men concerning Ororo's affections. So, pairing Storm with Logan had multiple uses for Marvel. 1) It would appease much of the Storm fanbase who hated the marriage and have wanted Storm and Logan to get together since WAY before a Storm/Panther marriage was even a concept. 2) There was already a foundation for the two of them to date prior to the marriage plus they share a long and profound friendship which is always good to build a relationship off of. 3) It adds a touch of drama/interest for those who follow Storm/Logan as it brings up the enmity between the two men. 4) Its a good way of letting readers know that the marriage is truly over because of reasons 2 and 3 on my list.

Pairing Storm with Logan has nothing to do with Marvel wanting her to be with "anybody but Black." If that were the case, they would not have allowed to marriage to happen in the first place. Even when sales were dipping on the title, they tried to preserve the marriage and title by bringing on Maberry. The focus on Shuri was the final nail in the coffin as that killed any hope the book/marriage had of rebounding.

All that said, it's out of character for Storm to just go into a relationship so soon after the break up. She's very slow to give her heart. Despite her and Logan going on dates prior to the marriage, it wasn't very serious at all. I still maintain that Logan is just the rebound guy.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 01, 2014, 05:51:24 pm
That's a whole lot of goal post moving, it's literally outside the stadium now
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 01, 2014, 06:35:25 pm

The weasel known as Logan has never been and never will be good enough for Storm. He literally stinks as a character, as evidenced as canon in a very recent X-Men book where Beast said he might be able to come up with a way to make the weasel have a less offensive odor.

Marvel saw fit to rip Ororo out of the arms of a black man who smelled great and throw her into the arms of a white man who smells like a dead wet dog. And now that THAT fling is kaput, they'll show her with her hand on Forge's shoulder, because, you know...
Yeah, at least she's not with a Black man.

*sigh* I really didn't want to talk about this, but I will. The whole Ororo/Logan pairing did not come out of left field. Storm fans have been clamoring for years for these two to get together. I have always been against this pairing for reasons I have already discussed at length on this board. For Wolverine, Jean Grey will always be his first pick, though he is NOT her first pick. If he were her first pick, she would have married him instead of Cyclops. Pairing Storm (or any woman) with Logan makes her a consolation prize. She's too good of a character for that. One of the reasons I was open to the idea of Storm and BP being rushed into marriage is prior to that, she and Logan were going on dates and stuff.  They were not yet an item as she was also going on dates with Nightcrawler, but the risk of her being with Logan loomed on the horizon for me. I don't want that. When Panther and Storm broke up, Marvel simply resumed the budding relationship that was brewing between Storm and Logan (Nightcrawler was dead at the time...he's gotten over that now, lol) and put a twist on it to jab a Panther. This was done not because Panther is Black, but because there was a certain enmity between the two men concerning Ororo's affections. So, pairing Storm with Logan had multiple uses for Marvel. 1) It would appease much of the Storm fanbase who hated the marriage and have wanted Storm and Logan to get together since WAY before a Storm/Panther marriage was even a concept. 2) There was already a foundation for the two of them to date prior to the marriage plus they share a long and profound friendship which is always good to build a relationship off of. 3) It adds a touch of drama/interest for those who follow Storm/Logan as it brings up the enmity between the two men. 4) Its a good way of letting readers know that the marriage is truly over because of reasons 2 and 3 on my list.

Pairing Storm with Logan has nothing to do with Marvel wanting her to be with "anybody but Black." If that were the case, they would not have allowed to marriage to happen in the first place. Even when sales were dipping on the title, they tried to preserve the marriage and title by bringing on Maberry. The focus on Shuri was the final nail in the coffin as that killed any hope the book/marriage had of rebounding.

All that said, it's out of character for Storm to just go into a relationship so soon after the break up. She's very slow to give her heart. Despite her and Logan going on dates prior to the marriage, it wasn't very serious at all. I still maintain that Logan is just the rebound guy.

The fact is that for DECADES Marvel has been pairing Storm up with numerous white men. That is the OVERALL picture here. I already know WHY Marvel does what it does...right nowI'm looking at the company DOING IT in the first place.

You could come up with a million reasons why Marvel enjoys having its black female characters in romantic relationships with white male characters and at the end of the day, the fact remains that Marvel is purposely keeping black women and black men apart, just like DC Comics does, and just like movies and television do. White men think about white men having sex with any ethnic female on Earth, and Storm to them is no exception.

If you were REALLY paying attention, you would have noticed this.

And what are your excuses for Misty Knight? Oya/Idie?

And what are your excuses for the black male characters at Marvel who are in relationships (if they are in relationships at all) with women who AREN'T black? Luke Cage? Falcon? Miles Morales?

And isn't it odd how Christopher Priest and Reginald Hudlin (two black men) wanted to put Storm and Black Panther together (Priest was told he couldn't and Hudlin was told he could a few years later), but any white writer putting Storm in romantic situations ALWAYS put her with white men (aside from Forge)?

Claremont started the romance thing between Storm and BP, but of course under him the romance never went anywhere and they were supposed to have parted, and years later when they met again they parted as "just friends." Then decades later when Claremont wrote that X-Men Forever crap, he had Storm kill Black Panther.

Isn't it also odd how AFTER Hudlin was no longer writing Black Panther, Marvel immediately did everything they could to keep Storm and Black Panther apart and THEN purposely destroyed the marriage, AFTER WHICH STORM IMMEDIATELY HOPPED INTO BED WITH another white man AFTER she was shown to be physically attacking her then-still husband?

Again, let's look at what Marvel has been doing to Storm for DECADES, and continues to do to her AFTER her marriage to a black man.

Also, Shuri had NOTHING to do with Storm and Black Panther's marriage being destroyed or rebounding. Storm and Black Panther could have been shown to go on a second honeymoon somewhere outside of Wakanda and Shuri could have still been in charge of the country, so I don't see your point about that at all.

The marriage "failed" because Marvel WANTED IT to, just like they WANTED Spider-Man's marriage to fail, and just like Marvel WANTS the Susan/Reed Richards marriage to succeed.

And your statements about how fans wanted to see Storm and the weasel hook up just shows that a LOT of Storm fans would rather have Storm under white men than a black man (Thor, Weasel-man, Nightcrawler, Namor, Cyclops, Dracula, etc. etc.) And your response just shows that Marvel caters to that type of crap.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: APEXABYSS on July 01, 2014, 06:53:45 pm
lol - the new black woman- solo title- wow

(http://38.media.tumblr.com/155dad7d632d877bc4fedbab51dc10a4/tumblr_n7nrp6ImE51ts10q9o1_1280.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on July 02, 2014, 12:25:11 am

And what are your excuses for Misty Knight? Oya/Idie?

You forgot Frenzy, Dani Moonstar (Native American, but still), and Cecelia Reyes.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 02, 2014, 04:30:12 am
The evidence is irrefutable. When it's a white X-writer, the skin hues of Ororo's..."love interests" are going to be as American as apple pie: Red - Forge, White - Slipstream, Wolverine, Dracula, Gambit (lust interest rather than love interest in this case), Arkon..., and Blue - Nightcrawler and Khan.

And, so what?

This irrefutable evidence is irrelevant to Storm's enablers and much of the LCBRD. Black female mutants worship, are wooed (or either throw themselves at), white male mutant characters... and if the X-writer is so moved, that black female character is bedded (never wedded), and even impregnated by the white male character she is depicted as being smitten with. Black male mutants don't get no love. David Alleyne/Surge was brief but now that he's bisexual and no longer one of those repugnant heterosexual black males, he might be tolerated by that X-crowd. Bishop and Sage once prepared and ate a meal together, but he never got up to bat with Sage while most of Ororo's red, white, and blue lovers have hit for the cycle with Wolverine slamming (no pun intended), homerun after homerun, after homerun...before running off to die, be resurrected and find love in the arms of a white woman to eventually flaunt in Ororo's face in the not too distant future.

Not one white X-writer to my knowledge has ever even hinted at establishing an intimate relationship between Ororo and a so-called black character, mutant or otherwise. X-fans might hold their noses, ignore the long-running relationship between Gambit and Rogue, and argue that an intimate relationship between Gambit and Ororo makes more sense than pairing Ororo with T'Challa. Gambit and Ororo are both mutants and thieves. They have "a lot in common". On the other hand, the only things Ororo and T'Challa have in common is their shared "black" African heritage. Hooking those two characters up on the basis of such a flimsy connection is lazy at best and racist at worst. The X-fan's dream scenario where matters of Ororo's and T'Challa's intimacy is concerned: Ororo should be involved with male and female lovers, preferrably mutant and non-black. T'Challa should stop fighting the feeling and surrender to his latent homosexual urges or die, have salt sprinkled on him so he never rises again.

Rick Rememder wrote a fine Doctor Voodoo. The book's artwork was very nice. Where Maberry had Dr Doom disgrace and defeat T'Challa in hand-to-hand combat, Rememder's Doctor Voodoo defeated Dr Doom with a punch to the nose, knocking Doom on his behind and telling him to "go home". Doom obsequiously complied. The LCBRD didn't much like the fact that "Brother Voodoo" had become "Doctor Voodoo", the Sorceror Supreme. They wanted the return of Dr. Strange. What the LCBRD wants, they get. Dr. Strange is alive and kicking. Dr. Voodoo has kicked the bucket.

Storm's fans have engaged in some pathetic campaign of saturation promotion of her ongoing series. Laughable  :)
If not for my respect for Supreme Illuminati, I would not be purchasing the two issues of the book I've committed to buying. If there is any justice, two issues of the ongoing is all I'll need to buy. If this endeavor proves to be just another "old home week tour" where she encounters the same moldy mutants she's always known, I hope the book's death is as quick as Doctor Voodoo's series was...and as permanent as his character's death seems to be.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 02, 2014, 04:31:29 am
lol - the new black woman- solo title- wow

([url]http://38.media.tumblr.com/155dad7d632d877bc4fedbab51dc10a4/tumblr_n7nrp6ImE51ts10q9o1_1280.jpg[/url])


.....yipe.  :-\
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 02, 2014, 04:48:16 am
Quote
And your statements about how fans wanted to see Storm and the weasel hook up just shows that a LOT of Storm fans would rather have Storm under white men than a black man (Thor, Weasel-man, Nightcrawler, Namor, Cyclops, Dracula, etc. etc.) And your response just shows that Marvel caters to that type of crap.

"weasel man"...now where have I seen that term used before?.....Oh, I know. It's what I used to call that short, furry, stinking, cigar-smoking, hard liquor-swilling, foul fool of a mutant sporting the Elvis Presley sideburns and Bozo the Clown haircut while doing battle with the CBR X-board mental asylum. Using it got me into trouble, banned and told not to use it again. In return, those "crazy kids" of the opposition had to stop posting Ru Paul = Ororo pics.

"weasel man". Good to see the term still in circulation.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 02, 2014, 05:32:31 am
Let's not derail thread on that dumbsh*t picture that was floating around. It'll provide a weapon on a tirade on why black women are leaving black men again.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 02, 2014, 07:09:12 am
I don't know that the picture derails the thread as much as it might perfectly dovetail into the very topic.

What are some reservations to have against purchasing the Storm ongoing given what we know?

Mutants, once a fresh and different concept, have become dull and downright disgusting. A section of their fan base much like the characters they are devoted to, have mutated themselves into a militant phalanx of flamboyant, flaming fools; an idiot society of self-entitled bigoted boors and bullies. Once, a mutant could have been anybody, any gender, any race; any ethnicity. Because of the inordinate patronage of a certain-thinking type of fanbase, the definition of who can be a mutant and who a mutant can associate with has been narrowed. Like weeds, that fanbase has choked out the flowers of an entertaining concept and perverted it into what it is today. Mutants are boring and under the guise of defending themselves from persecution, have become the worse sort of bigoted characters since the Azanians whose super soldiers T'Challa fought and defeated without the assistance of the panther god who'd abandoned him.

What does that picture show? A white couple, smiling and happy with their baby and a lone black woman, smiling and happy with her baby but bereft of her black male companion, the co-author of the child she's carrying around in that sack.

What has the X-Men become through a series of strange, consistent, and insidious story-writing decisions. It has become a concept where black female mutants thrive and black male mutants rarely survive. Unless that black female mutant hooks up with a white male mutant, that picture is an exacting representation of Marvel mutant "reality". Jean Grey & Cyclops; Emma Frost & Cyclops; Polaris & Havok; Prof X & Moira MacTaggert; Banshee & Madrox; Ororo and T'Challa...oops. And if not for Logan and the red, white, and blue stable of studs the X-writers seem to prefer bouncing on Storm, she would be as alone as the black woman in that picture.

Now it appears Ororo has a daughter she didn't know she had. She probably doesn't remember being alone carrying the child around in a bag all by herself while the white couple - man, woman, baby in the bag and smiling - stood next to her. Ororo probably doesn't know who the father of her daughter is although she appears to be black and is seen in the company of a huge black panther-cat. The girl's appearance should be enough to convince anyone that T'Challa is her father but that mutated fanbase, that  idiot society of self-entitled bigoted boors and bullies...the ISSBB, hates T'Challa so much that they can look at that woman's black skin, see her in the company of that huge panther-cat and still find reason to claim and to hope that Logan, not T'Challa, is the father.

So the reasons why some might not be too willing to purchase the Storm ongoing are likely these: mutant characters have become boring. their fanbase has become a miasma of incorrigible, self-entitled bigots who believe the world revolves around them and their mutants, and add to these, the dearth of a black male presence. Ororo is going around the world, toppling corrupt governments and making the world a better place for you and me. She couldn't beat Dracula by herself. She took him on and found herself swooning in his arms, the same way in her battle with Thor in Contest Of The Champions, she found herself swooning in his arms, kissed into submission, tiny hearts shooting from her head as conciousness left her body. How is Storm expected to topple corrupt governments by herself? She's going to need help of some sort. If that help comes in the form of the "If you're white, you're alright; if you're yellow or brown, stick around, but if you're black, get back" totem pole, those of us who have reservations against supporting the Storm ongoing for that reason will be shown correct and the picture posted will be apropo.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 02, 2014, 01:21:47 pm
My memory may be a little fuzzy, but...

Come to think of it...how many times has Storm gone up against and wiped out an entire "mean ol' human army", and not have said army be comprised of black men?


Never.

The X-writers stay showing their collective bigoted ass everytime.


You know what? I can't remember her wiping out a HUMAN army that didn't have Black people in it, either. My scans showed nonhumans. Hmmm.


I don't know about Storm taking out a normal human army of non-Blacks, but I know she's taken out the X-Men and "killed" Cyclops.

[url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url] ([url]http://arousinggrammar.com/2013/04/23/storm-vs-everybody/[/url])


I have to add one more thing: X-Treme X-Men issue 1 (or 2), Storm took out an entire squad of the Guardia, a premier elite, secretive military force in Spain with an electromagnetic pulse. No Blacks in that group.


THANK YOU, Rutog98!!


I'm not sure what you're thanking dude for since he was only able to find ONE incidence of Storm bringing the pain to a non-black set of soldiers weighed against the multiple incidences of similar martial actions against a plethora of Black combatants leading up to this....

([url]http://i57.tinypic.com/sb5uu8.jpg[/url])

You know heads are scraping the bottom of the barrel in desperation to shore up a threadbare argument. :smh:



I like to think of myself as decently intelligent, even as a child. And I don't want to think that I've been hoodwinked by the X-Office for half my childhood into thinking that they're cool people when really they're undercover raving racists with a particularly bad problem with Black men. I also know for a fact that their very disinclination to include Black people in their books should make for the overwhelming majority of the people who Ororo smashes on be White bad guys and girls.

Remember The Marauders and what she did to them? Remember practically everyone not named TChalla or Bishop who she fought?

She even fought Calysto in the movies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjf1zZ4QeU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBjf1zZ4QeU)


(http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121117204818/x-men-movies-canon/images/1/10/X3-storm-callisto-fight-1-50k.jpg)

but I overwhelmingly prefer the comic book version:

(http://thenerdsofcolor.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/2uz54s9.jpg)


(http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/callisto3.jpg)

(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3529/3281474803_1583778fe4_b.jpg)



As much as we disliked this image, depicting a kiss between Scott and Ororo which never happened and IIRC this cover is for a nonissue which didn't come with a story and ISN'T canon:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wk5CSZkBYl8/TkOAbqEuR_I/AAAAAAAAASU/YXSIy06tdMI/s1600/AstonishingXMen_44_Cover_02.jpg)


We gotta take satisfaction that...at the time in 2012 when TChalla and Ororo were already on the rocks for all intents and purposes, Storm still said and did this right here to Cyclops:

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/1/18863/2141229-storm_challenge.png)


We gotta find some real satisfaction in this Marvel canon book with multiple imagery showing our triumphant Ororo:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eZP99EPciM4/U4J3115VpyI/AAAAAAAAZYU/ZoZ-TNx2fhQ/s1600/xmen201_17.gif)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xyujHteJ8bE/U4J4QZyMZQI/AAAAAAAAZYc/_OQ3XSLxLSc/s1600/xmen201_19.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-V9NUh8qA9Mw/U4J4TQf6OzI/AAAAAAAAZYk/2jn0MQW9PZo/s1600/xmen201_20a.gif)

And I just like this picture here:

(http://s-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/4/26/12/enhanced-buzz-32617-1303836428-8.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 02, 2014, 03:18:11 pm
Supreme Illuminati,

I'm really confused by some of your posts in this thread.

It's almost as if you're looking for any excuse to avoid looking at the elephant in the middle of the room.

The mere fact that the X-Office remained resolute in their decision to leave Reginald Hudlin to carry the weight of chronicling Ororo and T'Challa as a married couple should be a clear indication to anyone with a descerning eye to see exactly what agenda they were (and still are) pushing.

Posting multiple cans of Ororo doing battle with random mooks doesn't change anything.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 02, 2014, 05:23:08 pm
Actually that cover to Astonishing X-Men did come with a story as a alternate universe Storm was sacrificing multiple alternate universe Cyclops', the first issue even lead into that as alt universe Storm set her sights on 616 Cyclops with a kiss

Written by Pak and drawn by McKone
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 02, 2014, 06:59:09 pm
Supreme Illuminati,

I'm really confused by some of your posts in this thread.

It's almost as if you're looking for any excuse to avoid looking at the elephant in the middle of the room.

The mere fact that the X-Office remained resolute in their decision to leave Reginald Hudlin to carry the weight of chronicling Ororo and T'Challa as a married couple should be a clear indication to anyone with a descerning eye to see exactly what agenda they were (and still are) pushing.

Posting multiple cans of Ororo doing battle with random mooks doesn't change anything.

allow me to clear up that confusion, my brother.

I am aware that the X-Office's agenda has been overall definitely and decisively anti-Black and most especially anti-Black mutant.

What I am trying to discern is if they have been 100% that way, so that I don't paint EVERYONE with the same broad brush.

The evidence that can provide a counterargument to the "100% hatas without exceptions" approach is/are books and works that show contrary evidence.

I labor under zero illusions regarding the overall, dominant, and consistent pattern of behavior that I have been aware of regarding the X-Office.

Actually that cover to Astonishing X-Men did come with a story as a alternate universe Storm was sacrificing multiple alternate universe Cyclops', the first issue even lead into that as alt universe Storm set her sights on 616 Cyclops with a kiss

Written by Pak and drawn by McKone


See? I didn't know that. I haven't bought X-books with any consistency in literally decades. Good catch, Genki Sudo the Neo Samurai.

I still think that Pak's amazing WAR MACHINE run destroys arguments that he has a pronounced or even visible anti-Black male disposition.

I will check out the STORM books and decide for myself if I see evidence justifying a change in my opinion.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 03, 2014, 03:27:19 pm
Supreme Illuminati,

I'm really confused by some of your posts in this thread.

It's almost as if you're looking for any excuse to avoid looking at the elephant in the middle of the room.

The mere fact that the X-Office remained resolute in their decision to leave Reginald Hudlin to carry the weight of chronicling Ororo and T'Challa as a married couple should be a clear indication to anyone with a descerning eye to see exactly what agenda they were (and still are) pushing.

Posting multiple cans of Ororo doing battle with random mooks doesn't change anything.

allow me to clear up that confusion, my brother.

I am aware that the X-Office's agenda has been overall definitely and decisively anti-Black and most especially anti-Black mutant.

What I am trying to discern is if they have been 100% that way, so that I don't paint EVERYONE with the same broad brush.

The evidence that can provide a counterargument to the "100% hatas without exceptions" approach is/are books and works that show contrary evidence.

I labor under zero illusions regarding the overall, dominant, and consistent pattern of behavior that I have been aware of regarding the X-Office.

Actually that cover to Astonishing X-Men did come with a story as a alternate universe Storm was sacrificing multiple alternate universe Cyclops', the first issue even lead into that as alt universe Storm set her sights on 616 Cyclops with a kiss

Written by Pak and drawn by McKone


See? I didn't know that. I haven't bought X-books with any consistency in literally decades. Good catch, Genki Sudo the Neo Samurai.

I still think that Pak's amazing WAR MACHINE run destroys arguments that he has a pronounced or even visible anti-Black male disposition.

I will check out the STORM books and decide for myself if I see evidence justifying a change in my opinion.

There does seem to be a difference in how writers write black characters OUTSIDE of the X-Office's influence, and how those same writers write black characters WITHIN the X-Office's influences.

For instance, when Jason Aaron wrote Black Panther in "See Wakanda and Die", it was brilliant because he was writing outside of the X-Office and under the supervision of the rest of Marvel. However, when he wrote Black Panther a few times in X-books under the influence of the X-Office, he catered to Jerry Springer-type shenanigans and catered to haters of Black Panther/haters of the union between Storm and Black Panther. Jason Aaron made Storm and Black Panther look ridiculous (aside from "See and Wakanda and Die)" because the X-Office was involved.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 03, 2014, 03:59:08 pm
What really doesn't make sense, is that the X-office is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 03, 2014, 05:47:40 pm
What really doesn't make sense, is that the X-office is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.


Cater to the only people who will buy it
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 04, 2014, 02:11:29 pm
Supreme Illuminati,

I'm really confused by some of your posts in this thread.

It's almost as if you're looking for any excuse to avoid looking at the elephant in the middle of the room.

The mere fact that the X-Office remained resolute in their decision to leave Reginald Hudlin to carry the weight of chronicling Ororo and T'Challa as a married couple should be a clear indication to anyone with a descerning eye to see exactly what agenda they were (and still are) pushing.

Posting multiple cans of Ororo doing battle with random mooks doesn't change anything.

allow me to clear up that confusion, my brother.

I am aware that the X-Office's agenda has been overall definitely and decisively anti-Black and most especially anti-Black mutant.

What I am trying to discern is if they have been 100% that way, so that I don't paint EVERYONE with the same broad brush.

The evidence that can provide a counterargument to the "100% hatas without exceptions" approach is/are books and works that show contrary evidence.

I labor under zero illusions regarding the overall, dominant, and consistent pattern of behavior that I have been aware of regarding the X-Office.

Actually that cover to Astonishing X-Men did come with a story as a alternate universe Storm was sacrificing multiple alternate universe Cyclops', the first issue even lead into that as alt universe Storm set her sights on 616 Cyclops with a kiss

Written by Pak and drawn by McKone


See? I didn't know that. I haven't bought X-books with any consistency in literally decades. Good catch, Genki Sudo the Neo Samurai.

I still think that Pak's amazing WAR MACHINE run destroys arguments that he has a pronounced or even visible anti-Black male disposition.

I will check out the STORM books and decide for myself if I see evidence justifying a change in my opinion.

There does seem to be a difference in how writers write black characters OUTSIDE of the X-Office's influence, and how those same writers write black characters WITHIN the X-Office's influences.

For instance, when Jason Aaron wrote Black Panther in "See Wakanda and Die", it was brilliant because he was writing outside of the X-Office and under the supervision of the rest of Marvel. However, when he wrote Black Panther a few times in X-books under the influence of the X-Office, he catered to Jerry Springer-type shenanigans and catered to haters of Black Panther/haters of the union between Storm and Black Panther. Jason Aaron made Storm and Black Panther look ridiculous (aside from "See and Wakanda and Die)" because the X-Office was involved.

^^^This comparison between Jason Aaron's writings sans X-Office heads and Jason Aaron wrtiing within the X-Office fold is...dead on. Very well said.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 04, 2014, 04:28:26 pm
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 04, 2014, 04:34:37 pm
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.

Most BP mythos enthusiasts feel exactly the same way about the bigoted twats in the X-office who've taken so much pleasure in disrespecting T'Challa, Shuri and Wakanda over the last few years.

f*ck every single one of them and the X-characters they write about.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 05, 2014, 08:51:20 am
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.

Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 05, 2014, 09:37:23 am
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.

Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.

I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 05, 2014, 11:50:42 am
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.

Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.

He's always coming up with reasons why Storm can't use her powers. Recently, in Amazing X-men, in the arc before Yost took over, the X men traveled to a hellish dimension. He wrote that there was no weather there, so Storm had no powers and had to go hand to hand. Meanwhile, there was air there (Storm has demonstrated that she can control air down to the atomic level so she should have been able to control that), heat (which Storm controls) and moisture. Storm controls moisture too. She was able to use this control over moisture to control ocean currents, take control over Hydro man's physical form and instantly dissipate him, create water lenses capable of isolating and focusing specific wavelengths of sun's rays as they passed through said lens, she's created instant flash floods and made it rain which means she moving moisture around to do so,  she has controlled the elements in other mystical hell dimensions before and has even turned weather spells back upon sorcerers who tried to use weather magic against her (which blows any argument that she can't control magic weather), yet Aaron wrote her down in this story. I didn't buy a single issue of that crap when I scanned through the first issue in the store and saw this garbage. Storm's powers adapt to control the natural forces of whatever dimension she's in. Trion story, anyone? I'd he just wanted to show off her hand to hand, he should have found another way to do it that does not devalue her with PIS.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 05, 2014, 03:28:20 pm
No weather but there is air there?  Yeah what did he think the wind is?   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 05, 2014, 04:36:34 pm
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.

Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.

I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.

I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there. Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Marvelous on July 05, 2014, 08:08:41 pm
'nuff said.

(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a165/RoddSteele/hudlin/HEF/stas_zps85fab738.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on July 06, 2014, 05:12:42 am
What really doesn't make sense, is that the X-office is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.





Let's try another variation of this thought process:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the politicians in South Carolina is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.
"


Let's try another one:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the White House is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.
"


...and another one:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the U.S. Supreme Court is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans
."
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 06, 2014, 06:25:06 am
'nuff said.

([url]http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a165/RoddSteele/hudlin/HEF/stas_zps85fab738.jpg[/url])


Agreed.

(http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 06, 2014, 06:32:28 am
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?

(http://i57.tinypic.com/21ne6uq.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 06, 2014, 06:12:34 pm
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?

([url]http://i57.tinypic.com/21ne6uq.jpg[/url])




First? Never saw those panels. Thanks for sharing them, yo.

Second? That up there is a classic example of writing Ororo down.


Ororo has "near infinite power" at her command, should she wish it.


(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30174/638965-ux147_1.jpg)


So if Iron Man can make a Phoenix Buster suit? Ororo can take Pheonix down. If she's written properly.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on July 06, 2014, 07:43:45 pm
Lots of high powered/over the top characters have been written down though. I don't recall Spiderman picking up and throwing trains and buses like they're cardboard boxes anymore.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 06, 2014, 07:48:43 pm
i had this big long argument about why Phoenix is way beyond Storm but I am not getting into this debate again.   
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 06, 2014, 08:08:36 pm
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?

([url]http://i57.tinypic.com/21ne6uq.jpg[/url])




First? Never saw those panels. Thanks for sharing them, yo.

Second? That up there is a classic example of writing Ororo down.


Ororo has "near infinite power" at her command, should she wish it.


([url]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/30174/638965-ux147_1.jpg[/url])


So if Iron Man can make a Phoenix Buster suit? Ororo can take Pheonix down. If she's written properly.
i had this big long argument about why Phoenix is way beyond Storm but I am not getting into this debate again.


I never saw the panels that you refer to. Dark Phoenix fades Eternity, huh? That's SERIOUS.

Seems like there's canon for both women doing incredible things...because Storm...as regular nonRoguestorm Storm...housed the very essence of Eternity within her being. Dr. Strange has the power to do the same.

Therefore, whoever wins in a throwdown between them will be dependent upon the writer of their throwdown.

Not surprised, are we?
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 06, 2014, 08:34:34 pm
 Stopping myself from debating. .. just barely. ..
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Marvelous on July 06, 2014, 09:08:59 pm
Stopping myself from debating. .. just barely. ..

I hear ya...  ;)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Vic Vega on July 07, 2014, 07:27:43 am
The longer this debate goes on, the more certain I am that it was probably a mistake to give Storm a solo series in the first place.

Batman's parents were killed by criminals, so Batman goes after crime and criminals.

Captain America was created to fight the Nazis, so that is why he goes after enemies of freedom.

Green Lantern got his alien space cop ring from an alien space cop so's he could take his place as an alien space cop.

But Storm was living on a moutaintop in Kenya when some bald dude (how did the Professor get his wheelchair up there anyway?) asked her to join his strike force and she actually joined him instead of laughing his face like a reasonable person would have done.

Without a premise for adventure baked into the character's backstory the writer will be forced to resort to write Storm stories as solo Xmen ("Storm has to fight Mr. Sinister! Without the Xmen!! BY HERSELF!!!") or the Storm goes back to Africa("Storm returns to Africa to bring a vicious Warlord to justice!" stuff that so many resent.

O.K I guess there's the third option of making her Captain Planet with boobs where she flies around the world beating up polluters ("Roxxon/British Petrolium! face the wrath of Storm!").

At least option 1 involves stories that the Xfandom might care about. The others don't even offer that.

I can't be mad at Pak. What the hell can he or anybody else do with Storm given the character's limitations?

And now we have people swearing up and down that she is too powerful to be doing any of that stuff.

Which doesn't make her any more interesting, by the way.

At least if Storm was depowered her solo book could be a Modesty Blaise ripoff that would work as a companion piece with Marvel's other Modesty Blaise ripoff book, Black Widow.

And since that Black Widow book is actually REALLY GOOD (reformed amoral spy now uses her amoral spy tactics to do good deeds-see how actually having a premise works?) being in the same class could only help.

In the book's defense, Storm does have a name writer and a great artist that I've never heard of.

Maybe that will be enough.

 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 07, 2014, 09:32:16 am
Couple of things I'm going to say here:

1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman. Essentially, in her solo title, she's going to be going around the globe stopping natural disasters, toppling corrupt governments and fighting for the underdog where she sees them. In doing so, she's going to foster good will between mutants and humans with her actions. He states in interviews, "How can you hate mutants when you have superhero going around doing what Storm is going to be doing in her book?"

2) Regarding Storm's power levels, it really depends on who is writing her. Storm, from her beginnings, has the potential to wield limitless power. Under Claremont, her power was limited only by the force of her will/spirit and strength of her body. As a matter of fact, in just about all of her handbook entries, this is stated. Given Storm has the strength of will and spirit to house the essence of Eternity (a feat that would kill even the Silver Surfer) and a TON of other feats she has demonstrating an "indomitable will" combined with her potential to transcend her human body into an actual goddess, there is essentially no limits to her power. When given her full credit and not written down, the only thing that is limiting her power is her human flesh and blood form. Not only does the "Roguestorm" arc prove that Storm will transcend her humanity, but the "Twelve" story arc also shows this. It was revealed in that arc that Storm will potentially go through many evolutions shedding one evolution form after another. When all the other X-Men are old and all, if Storm reaches this potential, she would still be a young-looking elemental being/goddess.  Keep in mind that her abilities enable her to perceive stars, planets and empty space as patterns of energy and forces she can bend to her will. Now, imagine an evolved Storm being able to do this with no limits whatsoever to her power IF she works towards her full potential. Just because she has the potential to evolve doesn't mean that its something she will necessarily want to develop, though. She has the ability to power herself up by drawing upon the life force of heavenly bodies. We saw a regular, non-full potential Storm use this ability to summon the full power of an entire galactic core (millions of stars and planets crammed into a relatively small space).  In the galactic core story, she became a star that was the sum of millions of stars and planets. She has been able to wield energy on a powerful enough scale to defeat the Trion in their own home dimension. The Trion were three supreme beings that were the forces of an entire reality personified. They were the sum of that entire realities past, present and future. They were the gods of that dimension, yet Storm's power were able to adapt to control those same forces when she was taken to that dimension and we got to see how insanely powerful she was in that fight. She rarely cuts up like this and we aren't even talking a full potential Storm, yet look at her feats already!

The Roguestorm story is a complete parallel between Roguestorm and Dark Phoenix. Both characters had evolved beyond all comprehension, both had the near-infinite power, etc. Claremont touched up on Storm's ability to transcend humanity in an issue of "X-Treme X-Men" when she told Thunderbird 3 that she was "not a goddess yet, but had the potential within her to transcend her humanity."

When Claremont gave Jean Grey the Phoenix Force, he did so to boost her powers to Storm's levels. He stated on comixfan that back in the day, Storm and Phoenix Force Jean Grey were essentially equal in power and, in his mind, held each other in check. Difference is, with Jean, that power went out of control and she became Dark Phoenix. We all know what happened to her, then. Even going back to earlier interviews from the late 70s show that Claremont saw the two women, Storm and Phoenix Force Jean Grey, as pretty much equal in terms of power. I can repost one of those interviews here. Even in terms of feats, we saw this. When Phoenix fought Firelord, she battled him with blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues earlier, when Storm fought a sentinel in space, she attacked said sentinel with a solar wind attack backed by the full power of a star. Storm would at times be written more powerfully than Phoenix in a story and sometimes Phoenix moreso than Storm. Both women's power levels would be adjusted to fit the needs of the story in the writer's mind. What comes to mind here is circa Uncanny 113 where the X-Men battled Magneto. Storm was written more powerfully than Phoenix in that story as she, Storm, was the only X-Man written with the power levels to defeat Magneto in that story arc. The only reason she lost to Magneto is because she held back. Phoenix, on the other hand, lost to Magneto flat out because she didn't quite have enough power to win. Phoenix's powers were scaled down in this story to rival those of Xavier's. On the other hand, when the team battled Firelord in an earlier issue, Phoenix was written in that story more powerfully than Storm.

One of the things that has me really excited about Pak writing the "Storm" book is states in interviews flatly that Storm is the most powerful female character in the MU with the power to go toe-to-toe with any of Marvel's big guns. From what has been put out, he intends to pit Storm against gods, mutants and regular humans. The editor of the book, Daniel Ketchum, told Pak to write a list of big feats that he, Pak, would like to see Storm do with her powers so they can try and fit them in the stories. This book has been Pak's dream to write for YEARS and he has not been shy in letting Marvel know this over the years either. Ketchum, by all accounts, is also a HUGE Storm-obsessed fan. Pak wants to make Storm THE iconic superhero of Marvel Comics. I think this is AWESOME, not only as a huge Storm fan myself, but to see a Black character elevated to this stature is wonderful! I'm rooting for Pak to be successful in his endeavors with this book.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on July 07, 2014, 03:58:28 pm
Without a premise for adventure baked into the character's backstory the writer will be forced to resort to write Storm stories as solo Xmen ("Storm has to fight Mr. Sinister! Without the Xmen!! BY HERSELF!!!") or the Storm goes back to Africa("Storm returns to Africa to bring a vicious Warlord to justice!" stuff that so many resent.

O.K I guess there's the third option of making her Captain Planet with boobs where she flies around the world beating up polluters ("Roxxon/British Petrolium! face the wrath of Storm!").

At least option 1 involves stories that the Xfandom might care about. The others don't even offer that.

I can't be mad at Pak. What the hell can he or anybody else do with Storm given the character's limitations?

And now we have people swearing up and down that she is too powerful to be doing any of that stuff.

Which doesn't make her any more interesting, by the way.






True.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 07, 2014, 06:23:55 pm
I give a 10 for that style of goal post moving

If this book gets canned the finger pointing will break the internet
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 07, 2014, 06:51:00 pm
Quote
1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman.
Decided not to read any further once I have noticed that.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 07, 2014, 06:52:33 pm
Quote
1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman.
Decided not to read any further once I have noticed that.

That's the impression I got from some of the interviews. Just like Superman is the icon of DC, I think Pak wants to make Storm the icon of Marvel.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on July 07, 2014, 06:56:36 pm
(http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/46.gif)*sigh*

The icon of MARVEL is Spider-Man.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 07, 2014, 07:11:15 pm
([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/46.gif[/url])*sigh*

The icon of MARVEL is Spider-Man.


...for now. :) I'm rooting for Pak on this.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 07, 2014, 09:47:06 pm
Bottom line? Anything that elevates STORM from the miasma that's she's in now?


YAAAAYYYY!!

There ya go.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 08, 2014, 03:35:32 am
Quote
1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman.
Decided not to read any further once I have noticed that.

That's the impression I got from some of the interviews. Just like Superman is the icon of DC, I think Pak wants to make Storm the icon of Marvel.
Sorry bro Marvel wont allow a character whom don't even have her own movie to be the "star" of their brand. The brand has existed for more than 75 years and the bulk of it was spiderman. Pak can write as well all he wants. He did excellent work with Hulk that eventually led to a crossover event. After that the Hulk been a joke once he left. It takes decades before one can even claim a title such as that.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 08, 2014, 06:13:56 am
([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/46.gif[/url])*sigh*

The icon of MARVEL is Spider-Man.


...for now. :) I'm rooting for Pak on this.


Writers don't determine Icons;  actually no one pre-determines Icons.  Do you think when they created Wolverine, they ever intended him to be one of Marvel's top 5 characters?  Nope.  If Byrne didn't save him from the chopping block, he would have entered limbo long before he ever became popular.

Characters become Icons when a number of things just happened to come together.  For Wolverine, one of the things that happened was the advent of the Anti-hero hit at perfect time for Wolverine.  But that wasn't the only thing.  So many things have to come together.

All Pak can do is just write his best.  Becoming an Icon is really out of his hands.  Actually, trying to write her to make her an Icon will probably kill the title.  And maybe even destroy the character, because in today's comic world, shock-value is one of the main ways to make a title and character stand out of the crowd.

And you really don't want him to use shock-value to make her an icon.

And it is also possible that making her an icon would destroy her.  Batman, Superman, Wolverine; none of them look like their original incarnations.  Batman and Superman used to be willing to kill.  Wolverine has become "safe" (I mean, really, could you ever imagine the original and early versions of Wolverine being placed in the role of headmaster of a school?) 

It would be just better that he writes the best he can and let the cards land where they land without trying to make (another) mark with her.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 08, 2014, 12:05:26 pm
This is what Storm will be doing in her book:

Thief. Goddess. Headmistress. Queen. The X-Man called STORM has always defied a single title. And her desire to better the world has never been limited to only her own kind. On a mission to foster goodwill and safeguard the mutant race's continued existence in her own way, Storm will travel the globe, confronting man and mutant, god and monster and everything inbetween. She will overthrow tyrants, quell tsunamis and strive to see her dream for the world realized. She is STORM, a hero like no other....and the skies will tremble at the sight of their namesake.


There's nothing of "shock value" in there. Pak is simply going to write her in character and simply expand her role in the larger MU. In the X-World, Storm IS iconic. Pak sees her as kind of the "Superman" of the X-Men world. I don't think he's far off the mark with that. He wants to simply expose her to the larger MU,  I think, and have her character shine making her Marvel's "Superman". Her character is already rich enough and her powers are epic. All he has to do is build on that foundation and not restrict her only to the X-World.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 08, 2014, 02:40:51 pm
This is what Storm will be doing in her book:

Thief. Goddess. Headmistress. Queen. The X-Man called STORM has always defied a single title. And her desire to better the world has never been limited to only her own kind. On a mission to foster goodwill and safeguard the mutant race's continued existence in her own way, Storm will travel the globe, confronting man and mutant, god and monster and everything inbetween. She will overthrow tyrants, quell tsunamis and strive to see her dream for the world realized. She is STORM, a hero like no other....and the skies will tremble at the sight of their namesake.


There's nothing of "shock value" in there. Pak is simply going to write her in character and simply expand her role in the larger MU. In the X-World, Storm IS iconic. Pak sees her as kind of the "Superman" of the X-Men world. I don't think he's far off the mark with that. He wants to simply expose her to the larger MU,  I think, and have her character shine making her Marvel's "Superman". Her character is already rich enough and her powers are epic. All he has to do is build on that foundation and not restrict her only to the X-World.

You do realize if he goes the route of shock value,  they aren't going to tell you about it before it happens.   Or shock value is used if sales aren't high enough.   Writing her well, good.  Trying to make "the next big thing",  can be dangerous.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 08, 2014, 02:44:19 pm
That set up is hilarious, "she's out to show she's not just about her own kind.........but the stories will be based all on mutant plight"

Bazinga for real
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 08, 2014, 03:48:55 pm
That set up is hilarious, "she's out to show she's not just about her own kind.........but the stories will be based all on mutant plight"

Bazinga for real

Pak's vision of Storm sounds just as X-centric as anything else that's emanated from out've the X-office.

There's virtually nothing about his approach to her soon to be released solo venture that indicates that Pak will be departing too far from the same insulting memes and faux minority aesthetic that's informed much of the X-books published history over the last few decades.

As I've said before, as long as he leaves T'Challa out of this latest foray into the world of the faux goddess, I'll be quite happy.

We don't need any of that X-crement derailing the BP mythos anymore than has been the case in the recent past.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 08, 2014, 04:03:51 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   Surround her by a new cast of characters. The only X character that should show up early is her daughter, and that is only because she is family. Have other non X heroes show up and give her new villains.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 08, 2014, 04:55:17 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   Surround her by a new cast of characters. The only X character that should show up early is her daughter, and that is only because she is family. Have other non X heroes show up and give her new villains.

He's going to create a rogues gallery for Storm as well as new characters for her supporting cast. He will, of course, include some of her friends, X-friends and otherwise.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 08, 2014, 05:12:22 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on July 08, 2014, 06:23:58 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 08, 2014, 06:45:53 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 08, 2014, 07:12:38 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   Surround her by a new cast of characters. The only X character that should show up early is her daughter, and that is only because she is family. Have other non X heroes show up and give her new villains.


The last time they tried that the "fans" threw a female dog fit of epic proportions, bad enough they wanna strong arm folks into reading this all hell will break lose again if she is seen as hinting of not being about the woe is me mutant cause
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 09, 2014, 09:13:22 am
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

Or maybe (gasp) she could just have cousins who are human.

Not everything in the 616 MU revolves around mutants.

As for Greg Pak rmembering that Ororo actually has human family based in the USA, I somehow doubt that would fit into the overarching X-book narrative that never paints Black people in a favourable light.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Princesa on July 09, 2014, 10:32:31 am
100% agreed on new living quarters the X facilities come off as a cross between an orphanage and a cult compound.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 09, 2014, 01:53:01 pm
Quote
1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman.
Decided not to read any further once I have noticed that.


That's the impression I got from some of the interviews. Just like Superman is the icon of DC, I think Pak wants to make Storm the icon of Marvel.



([url]http://www.rubicondev.com/forum/images/smilies/46.gif[/url])*sigh*

The icon of MARVEL is Spider-Man.



Hilarious!!!  :D    Way to keep everyone firmly grounded Battle
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 09, 2014, 01:58:47 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 09, 2014, 02:05:49 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.

Yeah.

X-DWEEBS AFTER READING A GREAT STORM BOOK THAT INCLUDES RH'S BACKSTORY FOR STORM'S FAMILY: "She has a Black family? Dang. That might mean that STORM is ACTUALLY BLACK.


Nooooooooooooo!!!!

hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate!!!"
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 09, 2014, 03:09:29 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.

Yeah.

X-DWEEBS AFTER READING A GREAT STORM BOOK THAT INCLUDES RH'S BACKSTORY FOR STORM'S FAMILY: "She has a Black family? Dang. That might mean that STORM is ACTUALLY BLACK.


Nooooooooooooo!!!!

hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate!!!"

Yep, something along those lines, possibly followed by: "They went and made Nick Fury black; then, they made the movie version of Alicia Masters black. They made a black Spider-Man. What's next...a black Johnny Stor....ummm..."
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on July 09, 2014, 05:08:50 pm
uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.

They could just follow the same formula for X-acceptance that they've used with Storm. Just don't have her family talk to/interact with any other black people unless it's to attack them.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 09, 2014, 06:10:46 pm
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.

Yeah.

X-DWEEBS AFTER READING A GREAT STORM BOOK THAT INCLUDES RH'S BACKSTORY FOR STORM'S FAMILY: "She has a Black family? Dang. That might mean that STORM is ACTUALLY BLACK.


Nooooooooooooo!!!!

hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate!!!"

Yep, something along those lines, possibly followed by: "They went and made Nick Fury black; then, they made the movie version of Alicia Masters black. They made a black Spider-Man. What's next...a black Johnny Stor....ummm..."

Well, that Black Johnny Storm is faintly possible because Sue Storm is Latina and the original Johnny Storm is now Captain America sooooo...

...but WAIT. Why not just introduce TChalla in the F4 as Stan Lee did, then swing him over to The Avengers via The X-Men? GRRREEEAAAT trio of launch pads for his own solo movie franchise, plus it adds much needed diversity to the first two franchises without straying too far from the comics premise. But naaahhh...that's too good of an idea.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 09, 2014, 06:49:23 pm
 
...but WAIT. Why not just introduce TChalla in the F4 as Stan Lee did, then swing him over to The Avengers via The X-Men? GRRREEEAAAT trio of launch pads for his own solo movie franchise, plus it adds much needed diversity to the first two franchises without straying too far from the comics premise. But naaahhh...that's too good of an idea.


Sadly those three properties are owned by three separate studios so crossovers won't happen until Marvel reclaims all the rights. 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Battle on July 09, 2014, 08:11:19 pm
 
...but WAIT. Why not just introduce TChalla in the F4 as Stan Lee did, then swing him over to The Avengers...





This part is brilliant.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 10, 2014, 09:50:55 am
 
...but WAIT. Why not just introduce TChalla in the F4 as Stan Lee did, then swing him over to The Avengers via The X-Men? GRRREEEAAAT trio of launch pads for his own solo movie franchise, plus it adds much needed diversity to the first two franchises without straying too far from the comics premise. But naaahhh...that's too good of an idea.


Sadly those three properties are owned by three separate studios so crossovers won't happen until Marvel reclaims all the rights.

I thought Marvel already reacquired the F4 rights and still has The Avengers rights...am I trippin? If so, my bad on that.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 10, 2014, 04:40:30 pm
I love this part of one of the Pak interviews:


And I’m sure I would kick myself and my readers would kick me if I didn’t ask a quick thing about Storm.
Which is, maybe not for the entire Marvel Universe yet, but, at least among the X-Men, Storm is kind of their Superman. She’s this leader figure who doesn’t have the baggage of Cyclops or Wolverine. She’s immensely powerful and kind. What do you think are the differences of switching from this kind of metaphorical sun god to this very literal weather goddess and do you think that Storm has any of the issues that Superman has had with being kind of pinned down into these roles?


That’s a great question and I have thought about this. I mean, Storm and Superman are similar also in that, y’know, Storm is the daughter of an American journalist and an African princess, so she’s also bicultural, y’know, she’s got her foot in multiple worlds. She’s also someone who grew up without- I mean, her- she lost her parents at a very young age. And, yeah, as you say, she’s incredibly powerful. She has an instinctive and ingrained sympathy for the underdog, which comes out of her- her own experiences, I think and is also…well, and this is also true about just about every superhero, somebody who struggles to figure out how to use these ridiculous powers in the right way without hurting people. So, those are all things she has in common with Superman.
I think there’s- there’s some interesting contrast which is a lot of fun writing both these characters. I think Storm is probably, just by nature, a little more dangerous than Superman. She probably cares less about hurting the feelings of jerks, y’know what I’m saying? Like, Superman is- I mean here’s something I’ve thought about a lot: Superman is invulnerable. Essentially, I mean there’s certain things that can hurt him, but just walking down the street he has zero fear of anybody he’s going to encounter. So, he could literally turn the other cheek to everybody he meets and never hurt. And if he didn’t do that, he’d be a massive jerk. Y’know what I’m saying? It’s like if you are literally invulnerable, what kind of monster are you not to turn the other cheek at every opportunity?
Storm is, for all her power, she’s flesh and blood. Like if she’s shot with a gun she will die. I think her reactions on that level are- I think she’s more like…us, the average person, in that kind of a way. There’s a certain amount of natural self-preservation that factors into her existence. I also think that, as a person walking through life, she’s somebody who’s encountered more wretchedness than Superman has.
Superman lost his parents at a very young age, but then immediately he had the best adoptive parents you can imagine. I mean, the Kents were amazing. And they have this child who was incredibly powerful and frankly dangerous and they loved him and taught him to be a good person and believed in him and gave him this incredible support and, Storm was out- when her parents were killed she was out on the street. I mean, living as a runaway, as a homeless child street thief. And eventually she hooked up with, with a ‘tutor’ who taught her how to be a better thief and all of that but she was- But she was still-

Still a very different experience-

Yeah, exactly, and then eventually, when she sort of came of age and found her powers as a very young woman, she went out into the desert and pretended to be a goddess! Like that- there’s something about this crazy life she lived that, I mean, that’s frankly unhinged, y’know what I mean? Like that’s- that’s not what a normal person who has a strong support network and family does.

So, I think Storm has had to deal with a lot more trauma. And has just another kind of level of- I think she’s- I mean, Superman is very smart and he’s not the Boy Scout that- he’s not the stereotype of the Boy Scout, but he is a little more innocent in his heart than Storm is. I mean, Storm has this incredible capacity for empathy, but she also, I think, has a fierceness in her that’s born out of this… this life of hardship that can be dangerous in a very interesting way, so I’m having a blast writing her and I love- I love her, y’know what I mean? I love those nuances and that conflict. Y’know, that desire to help while also that while also dealing with that fierceness inside is just a great- It’s a great thing to be able to write. So, I’m having fun.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 10, 2014, 05:14:26 pm
Quote
The longer this debate goes on, the more certain I am that it was probably a mistake to give Storm a solo series in the first place.

Batman's parents were killed by criminals, so Batman goes after crime and criminals.

Captain America was created to fight the Nazis, so that is why he goes after enemies of freedom.

Green Lantern got his alien space cop ring from an alien space cop so's he could take his place as an alien space cop.

But Storm was living on a moutaintop in Kenya when some bald dude (how did the Professor get his wheelchair up there anyway?) asked her to join his strike force and she actually joined him instead of laughing his face like a reasonable person would have done.

Ororo Munroe wasn't born fully-grown, complete with powers over which she had supreme command, and content to live on a mountaintop in Kenya. What about the plane crash into her family's apartment which killed her parents leaving Ororo orphaned, homeless, and claustrophobic? At least Batman/Bruce Wayne had Alfred and his murdered parent's billions. Ororo had nothing but a master thief to steward her through a traumatic childhood into her teenage years and a hard road to hoe. Talk about Hard Knock Life.

As a child, she had to resort to thievery to survive.  As a teenager, Ororo was attacked by a pervert and nearly raped. She had to kill the beast in the defense of her virtue...and her life. Was Batman, Captain America, or Hal Jordan ever in a snap kill or be killed situation where they actually had to take the life of another living being through an intimate and deadly act of violence? Compared to what Ororo has faced up to this point, Bruce Wayne, Steve Rogers, and Hal Jordan come off as wimps, as wusses. Alfred was brewing tea and drawing baths for Batman. Ororo was a homeless teenager who had to stab a scumbag to death to ensure she'd mature into womanhood...and to make her way to that mountaintop in Kenya to wait on that bald dude.

Before she'd make it to that mountaintop, she'd meet an African Prince whom she had to rescue from assailants. A romance would develop, but because the young Prince was duty-bound to become King of his fabulous homeland and avenge his father's murder, the romance would be brief and Ororo would be alone once more, discovering her powers and in using them to alleviate the suffering of her fellow humans, she would become misunderstood and worshipped as a goddess. How did Xavier get his wheelchair up that mountain, you ask. How did Ororo educate herself. There's the truly remarkable feat. Prof X probably got his chair up that mountain the old-fashioned way. He thunk his way up that-there mountain and there he was, up that-there mountain.


Quote
Without a premise for adventure baked into the character's backstory the writer will be forced to resort to write Storm stories as solo Xmen ("Storm has to fight Mr. Sinister! Without the Xmen!! BY HERSELF!!!") or the Storm goes back to Africa("Storm returns to Africa to bring a vicious Warlord to justice!" stuff that so many resent.

Ororo has an amazing backstory. It's simply been overshadowed by the goofy, gawd-awful goo her adoring fans lovingly refer to as being an X-Man. This ongoing could be Storm's one chance to distance herself from those other nasty mutants....but I for one, wouldn't bet the farm on it; that is if I owned a farm. Prof X lied to Ororo, to Peter Rasputin, probably to weasel man (he didn't have to lie to Kurt Wagner as Nightcrawler was running for his life and probably grateful to Prof X for pulling his butt out of the fire), to get them to be his "New X-Men". Prof X used the worst sort of headgame on John Proudstar to coerce him into joining his new team. He wanted to use them to rescue his original X-Men from peril.


Quote
O.K I guess there's the third option of making her Captain Planet with boobs where she flies around the world beating up polluters ("Roxxon/British Petrolium! face the wrath of Storm!").

At least option 1 involves stories that the Xfandom might care about. The others don't even offer that.

I can't be mad at Pak. What the hell can he or anybody else do with Storm given the character's limitations?

And now we have people swearing up and down that she is too powerful to be doing any of that stuff.

Which doesn't make her any more interesting, by the way.

At least if Storm was depowered her solo book could be a Modesty Blaise ripoff that would work as a companion piece with Marvel's other Modesty Blaise ripoff book, Black Widow.

And since that Black Widow book is actually REALLY GOOD (reformed amoral spy now uses her amoral spy tactics to do good deeds-see how actually having a premise works?) being in the same class could only help.

In the book's defense, Storm does have a name writer and a great artist that I've never heard of.

Maybe that will be enough.
My prediction is that this "Pak" will set Storm on a course which she would have traversed with her ex-husband T'Challa as Queen of Wakanda had Hudlin been allowed to work without being accosted by the LCBRD lunatic fringe. That bunch might have wanted Storm to be a significant mutant, but not the most important mutant in the world by virtue of being Queen of a mighty nation of negroes. Storm can be an important mutant...just not the most important mutant. She'd be intruding on weasel man's turf if that were the case. So my guess is that Storm - needing help to topple corrupt governments, combat natural disasters; etc... - will need help from mutants she already knows and will probably meet (and flirt with), a flatscan male of Asian or Caucasian extraction.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 10, 2014, 05:41:36 pm
In the original telling of the Ororo/T'challa meeting, T'challa wanted Storm to stay with him as he was still enjoying her company. She left because the "Song of the Wind" had once more spoken to her telling her it was time to move on. He offered to kiss her before she left, and she responded with, "If that's your way." He was amazed that she would treat a prince's kiss so casually. IIRC, she said something to the effect of, "One day. If not, I shall be the poorer for it. Farewell, young prince," and she flies off from the tree branch they were sitting on.

That said, Pak is going to create some new characters for Storm to fill in her supporting cast. Of course, we will also see some of her friends show up from time to time. In the first issue of the ongoing, Pak will introduce a new character, Creep, that he hopes we as readers will get a kick out of. He also expressed interest in using this character again in future story arcs for the book. He assures us all that this is not going to be just another X-Men team book and that it is Storm's solo title.

All that said, Storm wouldn't need the help of other mutants to stop natural disasters or topple corrupt governments. Just take a look at Storm #1 where she stops that tsunami by herself. With her powers, being what they are and the extreme levels they are at, the natural disaster part won't be an issue for her. To topple corrupt governments, she'd probably get in with the opposing resistance faction in that country who will likely have moles in the government and that could be her supporting cast for that story arc. It can go any number of ways. One of the things that has me really excited is Storm being pitted against "gods" in her title. She's gonna cut up like something else!

I LOVE what Storm says about the Avengers in an upcoming X-Men book from these preview pages:
(http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/132/049/original/XMEN2013016_int2_00004.jpg)
(http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/132/051/original/XMEN2013016_int2_00005.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 10, 2014, 06:58:44 pm
(http://i61.tinypic.com/54d1r8.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 10, 2014, 07:42:48 pm
 ;D ;D ;D ;D Damn...

That is hilarious.

Poor Ororo. Poor, poor, poor Ororo.

Why do those who do so, write her to be so incredibly stupid at times?

Ohhhhhhhh she's talking big game. Big, big game.

"We're the X-Men, Sabra. We are some of the most powerful beings to ever exist. We are elite."

Elite, my ass-troturf.

Ororo is so elite that she needed help fighting Dracula. She was bested by Thor - an Avenger - by being kissed into unconsciousness  ;D ;D ;D Her "power" wasn't squat v.s. Thor's smooching skills. Valkyrie isn't a goddess. She's a Defender...or ex-Defender. She's an ex-Defender with a really, really, really huge hammer with which Ororo is very well acquainted.

Getouttahere with all that "we are elite" noise and get back to crying about how hard it is to be a mutant  ;D

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 11, 2014, 03:19:48 am
In the original telling of the Ororo/T'challa meeting, T'challa wanted Storm to stay with him as he was still enjoying her company. She left because the "Song of the Wind" had once more spoken to her telling her it was time to move on. He offered to kiss her before she left, and she responded with, "If that's your way." He was amazed that she would treat a prince's kiss so casually. IIRC, she said something to the effect of, "One day. If not, I shall be the poorer for it. Farewell, young prince," and she flies off from the tree branch they were sitting on.

That said, Pak is going to create some new characters for Storm to fill in her supporting cast. Of course, we will also see some of her friends show up from time to time. In the first issue of the ongoing, Pak will introduce a new character, Creep, that he hopes we as readers will get a kick out of. He also expressed interest in using this character again in future story arcs for the book. He assures us all that this is not going to be just another X-Men team book and that it is Storm's solo title.

All that said, Storm wouldn't need the help of other mutants to stop natural disasters or topple corrupt governments. Just take a look at Storm #1 where she stops that tsunami by herself. With her powers, being what they are and the extreme levels they are at, the natural disaster part won't be an issue for her. To topple corrupt governments, she'd probably get in with the opposing resistance faction in that country who will likely have moles in the government and that could be her supporting cast for that story arc. It can go any number of ways. One of the things that has me really excited is Storm being pitted against "gods" in her title. She's gonna cut up like something else!

I LOVE what Storm says about the Avengers in an upcoming X-Men book from these preview pages:
([url]http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/132/049/original/XMEN2013016_int2_00004.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/132/051/original/XMEN2013016_int2_00005.jpg[/url])



I think Pak is doing a very good job of stamping his STORM right away with the kind of differences we should expect to see from her. I also thought that there should be times when The Avengers call in The X's...especially when they're dealing with mutant baddies or newbs or some such. But...didn't the X's and Avengers combine teams? Uncanny Avengers and such? If so...yeah they went and did more than CALL the X's. They joined forces with the X's. And vice versa.

Bottom line? I'm going to cop a few issues and then spoil the crap out of them here on this site so all of you besides me n Rutog who are already buying our stuff will be able to determine whether or not you're going to buy copies.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 11, 2014, 05:01:43 am
Now Greg Pak has put himself in a scenario that he cannot achieve nor accomplish. You cannot just flat out say that a character for over 30 years of writing is suddenly the "superman" of marvel. How can the person be if she isnt even among the leaders of the x-men? During that same span of 3 decades not one film. Not one TV series. Hell not even an ongoing. Dammit Greg I like what he did with the Hulk I really really did.

I don't like the hero but why the Blue Marvel can't be superman of marvel?
Thor?
Hulk?


A reason of "just cause" or "imo" doesn't fly.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 11, 2014, 05:44:26 am
;D ;D ;D ;D Damn...

That is hilarious.

Poor Ororo. Poor, poor, poor Ororo.

Why do those who do so, write her to be so incredibly stupid at times?

Ohhhhhhhh she's talking big game. Big, big game.

"We're the X-Men, Sabra. We are some of the most powerful beings to ever exist. We are elite."

Elite, my ass-troturf.

Ororo is so elite that she needed help fighting Dracula. She was bested by Thor - an Avenger - by being kissed into unconsciousness  ;D ;D ;D Her "power" wasn't squat v.s. Thor's smooching skills. Valkyrie isn't a goddess. She's a Defender...or ex-Defender. She's an ex-Defender with a really, really, really huge hammer with which Ororo is very well acquainted.

Getouttahere with all that "we are elite" noise and get back to crying about how hard it is to be a mutant  ;D


(http://i45.tinypic.com/20rn4at.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2zxp5ph.jpg)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/210hrba.jpg)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg)

Of course, the average X-Koolaid drinker will tell you that the above depicted beatdown that Storm recieved from Valkyrie in't canon even though it's pretty damn obvious that it is.

The X-Office has been a hotbed of fanboys masquerading as professional writers for a number of decades now and that wouldn't be so much of a problem if they kept their fanboyish stupidity to their own segeregated self perpetuated ghetto of the 616 MU.

Unfortunately, they all seem to suffer from the need to drag the rest of the 616 into their Bullcrap soap opera antics.

The only thing the X-bigots are good at doing is getting beat down upon by their own hubris....

(http://i42.tinypic.com/sqp06s.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 11, 2014, 09:02:56 am
Now Greg Pak has put himself in a scenario that he cannot achieve nor accomplish. You cannot just flat out say that a character for over 30 years of writing is suddenly the "superman" of marvel. How can the person be if she isnt even among the leaders of the x-men?

Ororo is going to be the Superman, Modesty Blaise with a little Adam Warlock thrown in for good measure. This idiotic "Creep" character to be introduced in the ongoing looks to be a setup for Storm's version of Pip the Troll....since her Logan the Troll is otherwise engaged at the moment. The first issue has yet to hit the stands and already Ororo is expected to see some of the same ol', same ol' albatross characters weighing her down as an X-Man and not only that, she's already been saddled with a waste of page space character called "Creep" of all things.

I sure hope "Creep" isn't a heterosexual goofy black male. If so, I'll be creeping away from the Storm ongoing with the quickness.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 11, 2014, 09:04:35 am
If they really wanted to make Storm transcend the X-Universe,  this is what I would do.   Move her out of X- housing into a place on her own, maybe near her family.   

 :D ....maybe near her family.... :D

What family?  ;D






The one that is being created as you type this!  ;)

I was thinking of the family Reggie introduced us to.    Hmmm....thinking about it, since mutants seem to run in families, it seems she should have a mutant cousin or two.

uh oh....introducing anything Storm-related that smacks of Hudlin's enhancements to her character could spell quick and certain doom for this ongoing.

Yeah.

X-DWEEBS AFTER READING A GREAT STORM BOOK THAT INCLUDES RH'S BACKSTORY FOR STORM'S FAMILY: "She has a Black family? Dang. That might mean that STORM is ACTUALLY BLACK.


Nooooooooooooo!!!!

hatehatehatehatehatehatehatehate!!!"

Yep, something along those lines, possibly followed by: "They went and made Nick Fury black; then, they made the movie version of Alicia Masters black. They made a black Spider-Man. What's next...a black Johnny Stor....ummm..."

Well, that Black Johnny Storm is faintly possible because Sue Storm is Latina and the original Johnny Storm is now Captain America sooooo...

...but WAIT. Why not just introduce TChalla in the F4 as Stan Lee did, then swing him over to The Avengers via The X-Men? GRRREEEAAAT trio of launch pads for his own solo movie franchise, plus it adds much needed diversity to the first two franchises without straying too far from the comics premise. But naaahhh...that's too good of an idea.

I think the only problem with that is the Fantastic Four are with Fox and the Avengers are with Marvel Studios.

What REALLY needs to be done is for Marvel Studios to get the rights to ALL of Marvel characters for movies so that ALL of their characters will be under the Marvel Studios umbrella, but I don't know how likely that would be. However, if Marvel Studios was able to make an Avengers movie that included Spider-Man, are were able to make a Marvel Studios "Secret Wars" movie, the company would probably make oodles of more money.

I've never been a fan of various Marvel superheroes being sent to different movie studios, but I'm not a business man.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 11, 2014, 03:23:04 pm
([url]http://i45.tinypic.com/20rn4at.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i49.tinypic.com/2zxp5ph.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i49.tinypic.com/210hrba.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg[/url])

Of course, the average X-Koolaid drinker will tell you that the above depicted beatdown that Storm recieved from Valkyrie in't canon even though it's pretty damn obvious that it is.


Her face smashed into the ground, butt up in the air, there's the majestic mutant Storm in the classic cartoon depiction of someone who has been knocked the funk out. Valkyrie bashed Storm's brains out of her head. The beating he took from Iron Fist left T'Challa with a brain aneurysm. Ororo took a terrific wallop to her headquarters from a mallet fully matching the girth and likely exceeding the weight of the torsos of Valkyrie and Ororo. It's as if Storm had been hit in the head with a keg of beer mounted on a club.

The blood blasted from her nose and mouth was more than might be seen in some who have sustained a gunshot wound. Her face should have swollen to the size of a beach ball, but there she was...knocked the funk out, butt up in the air but face as beautiful as ever. Apparently, the writer and artist who depicted Ororo so disgracefully deigned to show her some small degree of dignity.

When Thor kissed Ororo into unconsciousness in the CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS miniseries, small hearts shot from her head as she swooned. In this instance, once Ororo awakened on the beach it would have been fitting to have her eyes spinning in their sockets counter to each other, small canary birds tweeting and circling her head and Ororo reciting her own version of the child's Halloween ditty "Trick or Treat".   "We're elite. Smell my feet. Give me someting sweet to eat."

But this "Pak" is going to make Storm into Marvel Comics' equivalent to Superman.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 11, 2014, 05:52:55 pm
([url]http://i45.tinypic.com/20rn4at.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i49.tinypic.com/2zxp5ph.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i49.tinypic.com/210hrba.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i46.tinypic.com/25f12ra.jpg[/url])
([url]http://i48.tinypic.com/w22hxz.jpg[/url])

Of course, the average X-Koolaid drinker will tell you that the above depicted beatdown that Storm recieved from Valkyrie in't canon even though it's pretty damn obvious that it is.


Her face smashed into the ground, butt up in the air, there's the majestic mutant Storm in the classic cartoon depiction of someone who has been knocked the funk out. Valkyrie bashed Storm's brains out of her head. The beating he took from Iron Fist left T'Challa with a brain aneurysm. Ororo took a terrific wallop to her headquarters from a mallet fully matching the girth and likely exceeding the weight of the torsos of Valkyrie and Ororo. It's as if Storm had been hit in the head with a keg of beer mounted on a club.

The blood blasted from her nose and mouth was more than might be seen in some who have sustained a gunshot wound. Her face should have swollen to the size of a beach ball, but there she was...knocked the funk out, butt up in the air but face as beautiful as ever. Apparently, the writer and artist who depicted Ororo so disgracefully deigned to show her some small degree of dignity.

When Thor kissed Ororo into unconsciousness in the CONTEST OF CHAMPIONS miniseries, small hearts shot from her head as she swooned. In this instance, once Ororo awakened on the beach it would have been fitting to have her eyes spinning in their sockets counter to each other, small canary birds tweeting and circling her head and Ororo reciting her own version of the child's Halloween ditty "Trick or Treat".   "We're elite. Smell my feet. Give me someting sweet to eat."

But this "Pak" is going to make Storm into Marvel Comics' equivalent to Superman.


ROFLMAO!!!

Sinjection1, you've totally killed it with this hilarious post.

I can't stop laughing over here.

Dayuuuuum!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 11, 2014, 09:01:29 pm
"She's Marvel's Superman"
"We're X-Men we're the elite"

CM Punk take it away!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v726/yungburnout/Gifs/vh6gH_zpsfdd4aedf.gif)


Them x-writers man, when they spin a bs yarn they spin a doozy
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 12, 2014, 12:42:18 am
Whatever Pak does? It's gonna be waaayyy better than what Storm's gotten from the X-Office lo these many decades. Better than Storm got from anyone NOT named CJP, RH, or McDuffie, Yost, or Aaron during SEE WAKANDA AND DIE.

Storm=First Black Female Solo Comic Book Lead for the Big Two since...what? Monica Rambeau's miniseries or whatever? I don't even remember. Not even Misty Knight got a solo. She got HEROES FOR HIRE.

Which was DOPE, btw. So was the all girls DEFENDERS.

Therefore...GO PAK!! GO STORM!!

There ya go.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 12, 2014, 06:32:07 am
Whatever Pak does? It's gonna be waaayyy better than what Storm's gotten from the X-Office lo these many decades. Better than Storm got from anyone NOT named CJP, RH, or McDuffie, Yost, or Aaron during SEE WAKANDA AND DIE.

If this "Pak" comes through for Storm, he does right by Storm by doing the right thing with his write thing, and he somehow propels her above and beyond where she has languished for decades there won't be any sour grapes from this quarter. I would love to see an Ororo Munroe/Storm character created who has an appeal not simply to her core(cuckoo), audience but to the entire comicbook fandom. It would be fantastic to see Storm written and illustrated such that she grabs the attention of the casual comicbook fan, the purchases swell and
Quote
Storm=First Black Female Solo Comic Book Lead for the Big Two since...what? Monica Rambeau's miniseries or whatever?
enjoys a long, successful run.

Those of us who offer criticisms of her past portrayals and cautionary comments of what we could get from this new ongoing aren't doing so to sabotage the ridiculous book promotion campaign by Storm's "fans"(enablers). If people are going to read the book, they will read the book and good luck to them  :) Those of us expressing doubts do so on the strength of decades of a depiction of Storm which while it might keep some happy - that group of RoLo/mohawk haircut-loving/fake-fierce-one-minute-flirtatious-floozy-the-next group of enablers- has truly disgusted many of us who know that beneath all of that mutant madness and the x-crement she's had dumped on her, there is a gem of a character who if someone - like this "Pak" - does not act quickly, will find its fruition not in Ororo where it deserves to be, but in a character like Ororo...one likely to be of another race and ethnicity. When we criticize Storm's past and express caution about Storm's future we're being pragmatic.

I'm rooting for Storm to succeed. But in some Storm ongoing support posts I read it's like hopeful farmers wanting to get into the chicken egg business who are not only counting the eggs before they've hatched, but counting those eggs before they have any chickens in the coop. The chickens haven't arrived yet. I would hate to see the looks on those would-be chicken farmers' faces who've counted up all the eggs their chickens will hatch when the shipment arrives and they discover that instead of uncrating all the chickens there are iguanas in the crates instead.

...ya know?  ;)



 
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on July 12, 2014, 07:53:46 am
I'm giving it one and only one issue. If it doesn't impress me, then it's getting filed away. Honestly though, I don't expect this series to last honestly. 8 issues, tops.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 12, 2014, 08:13:33 am
Me,  I will wait for the trade paperback. And maybe only read the library copy.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on July 12, 2014, 08:27:45 am
I wish I could trade wait on some books. Would make storing them a lot simpler.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 12, 2014, 08:33:43 am
I wish I could trade wait on some books. Would make storing them a lot simpler.

yeah sometimes I want to trade my singles for TPB because they're easier to store
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on July 12, 2014, 08:45:12 am
I have been able to give myself more storage space as of the last month. A new boss in another department at my job learned that I create comics and we were talking about comics for kids and how rare it Is these days to find fun comics for kids. His son loves Spider-Man. I gave his son at least 50 single issues from my old Spidy collection that I deemed safe and fun for 10-13 year olds. Comics can be to dark these days to get the younger audiences attached. So I got some more to dig through. Gotta convert em into a comics fan early!

Got to make room for that newer stuff that I support!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 12, 2014, 12:34:52 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 12, 2014, 12:53:17 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been hanled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a ot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.
Then create them.

Here is something for some good measure.

This happened last night. It is the second annual men unity march in baltimore. I was in the back doing security patrol

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10417439_586662541452544_8606705575276303001_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10387209_586662634785868_8625091935565697883_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10403620_586662738119191_5082858796770372726_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10377981_586663101452488_2469743351575441865_n.jpg)

I have access to tons of these.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10176034_760425797315515_704464009_n.jpg)

It is out there. We just have to create it. There is nothing else to it. I do not accept that point I will never accept it. That victim crap has to end.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 12, 2014, 12:56:59 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been hanled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a ot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.
Then create them.

Here is something for some good measure.

This happened last night. It is the second annual men unity march in baltimore. I was in the back doing security patrol

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10417439_586662541452544_8606705575276303001_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10387209_586662634785868_8625091935565697883_n.jpg)

(https://scontent-a-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t1.0-9/10403620_586662738119191_5082858796770372726_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/10377981_586663101452488_2469743351575441865_n.jpg)

I have access to tons of these.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10176034_760425797315515_704464009_n.jpg)

It is out there. We just have to create it. There is nothing else to it. I do not accept that point I will never accept it. That victim crap has to end.

I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 12, 2014, 01:12:01 pm
I have been able to give myself more storage space as of the last month. A new boss in another department at my job learned that I create comics and we were talking about comics for kids and how rare it Is these days to find fun comics for kids. His son loves Spider-Man. I gave his son at least 50 single issues from my old Spidy collection that I deemed safe and fun for 10-13 year olds. Comics can be to dark these days to get the younger audiences attached. So I got some more to dig through. Gotta convert em into a comics fan early!

Got to make room for that newer stuff that I support!


Comics where dark back in the day as well
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 12, 2014, 01:23:14 pm
Quote
I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 12, 2014, 01:30:55 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.


Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on July 12, 2014, 03:49:31 pm
I have been able to give myself more storage space as of the last month. A new boss in another department at my job learned that I create comics and we were talking about comics for kids and how rare it Is these days to find fun comics for kids. His son loves Spider-Man. I gave his son at least 50 single issues from my old Spidy collection that I deemed safe and fun for 10-13 year olds. Comics can be to dark these days to get the younger audiences attached. So I got some more to dig through. Gotta convert em into a comics fan early!

Got to make room for that newer stuff that I support!


Comics where dark back in the day as well

Oh no doubt. I looked through them though before giving to him; making sure that weren't to dark. Some of them were Spider-Man Adventures, Chapter One and such.

I'm just happy to spread the love of comics to kids. They are the ones who are gonna keep the industry alive. Every year I go to three different comic stores for Free Comic Day to get the 'fun' comics and give them to my younger cousins. They love em.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 12, 2014, 04:17:51 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.

Bro, I love and respect you both for your forthrightness and steadfast support for Black Unity but get this, I post what I want, however and wherever I want becaue regardless of how positive YOU personally choose to comport yourself where this T'Challa/Ororo business is concerned, the disrespect T'Challa and Wakanda Train never comes late from the haters station.

This still remains a pure Black Panther Mythos forum and not an offshoot of the X-Men Koolaid sipping lunatic fringe division over on CBR and similarly themed forums/message boards.

I'm not interested in breaking bread with any X-fan or writer instrumental in disrespecting the BP mythos and as such, will always blast back with zero remorse when provoked with BS.

I have zero interest in building bridges with a fanbase and writers who come across more like members of the Tea Party.

Peace.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Booshman on July 12, 2014, 04:45:55 pm
I'm not interested in breaking bread with any X-fan or writer instrumental in disrespecting the BP mythos and as such, will always blast back with zero remorse when provoked with BS.

I have zero interest in building bridges with a fanbase and writers who come across more like members of the Tea Party.

Peace.

This! ALL OF THIS!
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 12, 2014, 06:17:34 pm
I'm not interested in breaking bread with any X-fan or writer instrumental in disrespecting the BP mythos and as such, will always blast back with zero remorse when provoked with BS.

I have zero interest in building bridges with a fanbase and writers who come across more like members of the Tea Party.

Peace.


This! ALL OF THIS!


With both barrels even.

(http://i53.tinypic.com/2i20v9v.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 12, 2014, 06:27:29 pm
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

In this topic alone I've seen two flattering/positive images of Storm; one included in a post by Marvelous, the other in a post by Apexabyss. Then there are the unlettered page preview for the ongoing featuring Ororo dispatching a cadre of armed men with frightfully-impressive ease. This last may get at the conundrum which gives rise to your observation: the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life. This statement is part fallacy and part fact.

Speaking for myself and from what I've observed: "...the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther..." I respectfully disagree. From a character's standpoint - general appearance, powerset and potential - I would feel confident in saying Storm is favorably regarded by the HEF. "..., only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did,..." Yes and ...not yes  :) I think that when some of us have posted something suggesting that Ororo was a "nut bucket", or seeming to ridicule her by name for sitting in the little chair beside the large, imposing desk of authority where Wolverine was sitting, we weren't showing a dislike for Storm or blaming her directly for beginning sexual relations with Logan almost immediately after her annulled MARRIAGE or for showing something of a subservience by sitting in the small chair rather than the big desk. Referring to Ororo as if she were entirely to blame for this foolishness was something like a "shorthand method" of saying what we really thought and what comprises the "yes" portion of your statement. We weren't blaming Storm. She's a fictional comicbook character who exists because writers, editors, and illustrators bring her to life. We are therefore, blaming the writers, editors, and illustrators for the things we dislike in their depiction of Storm's character.

So, to the conundrum I mentioned earlier. There are those who looking at how easily Storm dispatched that armed force confronting her in the preview pages would regard those images as powerful and positive images of Storm's character. Then there are those of US who see this confrontation as a continuation of the x-writer's preference where Storm's interaction with black people - and black males in particular - is concerned. One person's treasured positive image of Ororo in action is another person's trashy negative image of white writer's depicting Ororo beating the hell out of black men yet another time.

Quote
The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office,

Yes it does, and quite nicely too.

Quote
but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create,


I wouldn't put it past a smarty-pants writer who might happen to look in on the HEF from time to time and who upon viewing any negative image and accompanying derisive commentary to decide to troll us a bit by injecting more of the very type of activity we find distasteful into his/her stories. How many heterosexual black male mutants survive in the x-verse? How many of those enjoy exposure or a relationship with a female? How many bisexual or heterosexual black males have we seen in the x-verse while black female mutants like Joanna Cargill and Monet St Croix crave the attention of white male mutants? Do you remember what happened between Quentin Quire and the black male mutant "Slick"? Do you remember what "Slick's" girlfriend's reaction was after that incident?


Now, is it really fair to ask us to play nice with people who want to play us?




Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Rutog98 on July 12, 2014, 09:26:25 pm

(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/75182/3447105-sensing+position+of+sentinels+in+space-++lightning+reaching+from+surface+level+into+space+-+taki.jpg)
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 13, 2014, 11:18:43 am
Quote
I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen in terms of how non-white characters are portrayed.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can. Even if we don't like the current direction in which non-white characters are being taken, we could still try to support these non-white characters and demand that they be taken in better directions, directions in which non-white characters aren't pitted against other non-white characters and have non-white comic book readers bashing fictional black women every chance they get.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 13, 2014, 11:29:57 am
Quote
I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 13, 2014, 11:37:26 am
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.


Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 13, 2014, 11:41:59 am
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

In this topic alone I've seen two flattering/positive images of Storm; one included in a post by Marvelous, the other in a post by Apexabyss. Then there are the unlettered page preview for the ongoing featuring Ororo dispatching a cadre of armed men with frightfully-impressive ease. This last may get at the conundrum which gives rise to your observation: the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life. This statement is part fallacy and part fact.

Speaking for myself and from what I've observed: "...the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther..." I respectfully disagree. From a character's standpoint - general appearance, powerset and potential - I would feel confident in saying Storm is favorably regarded by the HEF. "..., only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did,..." Yes and ...not yes  :) I think that when some of us have posted something suggesting that Ororo was a "nut bucket", or seeming to ridicule her by name for sitting in the little chair beside the large, imposing desk of authority where Wolverine was sitting, we weren't showing a dislike for Storm or blaming her directly for beginning sexual relations with Logan almost immediately after her annulled MARRIAGE or for showing something of a subservience by sitting in the small chair rather than the big desk. Referring to Ororo as if she were entirely to blame for this foolishness was something like a "shorthand method" of saying what we really thought and what comprises the "yes" portion of your statement. We weren't blaming Storm. She's a fictional comicbook character who exists because writers, editors, and illustrators bring her to life. We are therefore, blaming the writers, editors, and illustrators for the things we dislike in their depiction of Storm's character.

So, to the conundrum I mentioned earlier. There are those who looking at how easily Storm dispatched that armed force confronting her in the preview pages would regard those images as powerful and positive images of Storm's character. Then there are those of US who see this confrontation as a continuation of the x-writer's preference where Storm's interaction with black people - and black males in particular - is concerned. One person's treasured positive image of Ororo in action is another person's trashy negative image of white writer's depicting Ororo beating the hell out of black men yet another time.

Quote
The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office,

Yes it does, and quite nicely too.

Quote
but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create,


I wouldn't put it past a smarty-pants writer who might happen to look in on the HEF from time to time and who upon viewing any negative image and accompanying derisive commentary to decide to troll us a bit by injecting more of the very type of activity we find distasteful into his/her stories. How many heterosexual black male mutants survive in the x-verse? How many of those enjoy exposure or a relationship with a female? How many bisexual or heterosexual black males have we seen in the x-verse while black female mutants like Joanna Cargill and Monet St Croix crave the attention of white male mutants? Do you remember what happened between Quentin Quire and the black male mutant "Slick"? Do you remember what "Slick's" girlfriend's reaction was after that incident?


Now, is it really fair to ask us to play nice with people who want to play us?

I don't really know anything about Quentin Quire, other than Marvel paired him up romantically with a black woman.

And as for playing nice, I don't recall actually using the phrase "playing nice" with Marvel...I believe all I have been saying is we have to have an open dialogue with Marvel at all times if we want them to start portraying non-white characters respectfully. I certainly have not been "nice" when I contact Marvel...in fact, I've often times been quite pissed off while writing to them, but I do believe that we do need to maintain professionalism when addressing Marvel so that they take us more seriously, just like we would want to be addressed respectfully and professionally if we worked at companies and customers were complaining to us about our products or our treatment of something they wanted.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 13, 2014, 11:48:02 am
Quote
I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.

I've also come to the terms that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist, but if we don't do anything to try and change that, then nothing is going to change and if comic books continue to exist, the generations that come AFTER us are going to be facing the exact same problems WE are facing right now.

And it's not just about US, it's about our kids and grandkids, etc. who might want to read comic books and will have to face the SAME EXACT fight we are facing now, because we didn't try and do anything to change things for the better.

By doing NOTHING except complaining on message boards, than constantly looking around for ways in which Marvel wronged non-white characters and non-white readers, we aren't doing anything constructive at all.

This is us:

Marvel pisses us off, we complain but do nothing, thus paving the way for Marvel to keep pissing us off. Then we pissed off at Marvel again because they pissed us off again because we paved the way for them to piss us off again.

We have been in this cycle for years, and it never gets us ANYWHERE. We're stuck because we do absolutely nothing of significance.

If we think that the people at Marvel (and DC) are going to wake up one day and suddenly say to themselves "Gee, we really need to stop being racist and treating non-white characters like crap!", that's most likely not going to happen. They will continue to push their pro-white, anti-non-white attitudes, beliefs and practices for as long as they are allowed to get away with it (as long as WE allow them to get away with it).

Since we all DO want change, we are going to have to FIGHT for it. If we don't put up a constant fight, then we will never win.

But a lot of us aren't even TRYING.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 13, 2014, 12:37:42 pm
Quote
I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.
What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.

I've also come to the terms that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist, but if we don't do anything to try and change that, then nothing is going to change and if comic books continue to exist, the generations that come AFTER us are going to be facing the exact same problems WE are facing right now.

And it's not just about US, it's about our kids and grandkids, etc. who might want to read comic books and will have to face the SAME EXACT fight we are facing now, because we didn't try and do anything to change things for the better.

By doing NOTHING except complaining on message boards, than constantly looking around for ways in which Marvel wronged non-white characters and non-white readers, we aren't doing anything constructive at all.

This is us:

Marvel pisses us off, we complain but do nothing, thus paving the way for Marvel to keep pissing us off. Then we pissed off at Marvel again because they pissed us off again because we paved the way for them to piss us off again.

We have been in this cycle for years, and it never gets us ANYWHERE. We're stuck because we do absolutely nothing of significance.

If we think that the people at Marvel (and DC) are going to wake up one day and suddenly say to themselves "Gee, we really need to stop being racist and treating non-white characters like crap!", that's most likely not going to happen. They will continue to push their pro-white, anti-non-white attitudes, beliefs and practices for as long as they are allowed to get away with it (as long as WE allow them to get away with it).

Since we all DO want change, we are going to have to FIGHT for it. If we don't put up a constant fight, then we will never win.

But a lot of us aren't even TRYING.

And I agree with you 100% on most everything you've said in this post but harnessing BP enthusiasts to get together to make a concerted effort on anything, has proven to be something quite difficult.

I know for a fact, that you've been one of the most consistent and determined posters across both forums, who's been steadfast in support of the Marriage of the Century and for that, you'll always have my respect and appreciation.

Unfortunately, some of our fellow "enthusiasts" aren't exactly what I would describe as being reliable brothers in arms, with some seeming to be more invested in siding with the contingent of X-fans self identified as avowed BP haters, against BP enthusiasts who refuse to be insulted and bullied to a greater extent on CBR and to a somewhat lesser degree over her on the HEF.

These are the 5th columnists who are always quick to raise false "alarms" that (at least over on CBR) attract undue Mod attention resulting in the eventual truncation or derailment of BP related threads.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: sinjection1 on July 13, 2014, 01:20:25 pm
Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 13, 2014, 01:52:05 pm
Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

That's what happens when you have a bunch of Benedict Arnold's masquerade as BP fans.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 13, 2014, 04:14:27 pm
Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

That's what happens when you have a bunch of Benedict Arnold's masquerade as BP fans.


I bluntly stated the essence of both sentiments back on HEF 1.0. years ago. Right after RH BP #1 hit the stands and I had that run in with that over the top CAPTAIN AMERICA fan...and had to slang him up outside my LCS.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Mad Coco G on July 14, 2014, 12:36:49 am
Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo,

I know I heard you the first time, what you don't get is I don't care that you are

and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR

You say those words but you don't know what they mean

you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I do understand the thing is YOU do not know how to handle them because you're method send the powers that be the wrong method

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years.

Of course you haven't as instead you've chosen the route of the uppity poster who likes to post about how much above the so called "bickering" masses by telling us repeatedly how he likes both characters and it would be great if others would act civilized and follow the example laid forth

That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

See what I mean

And I'm not talking down to anyone

Oh course you wouldn't believe you would, there's no class in that

I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth.

Aka looking down at others because they don't follow your style

If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me.

No it just says you're ducking the fact that you got caught, I'd say I'm soprry for knocking you off your high horse but I'm not

Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying.

I don't feel victamized by you or anything you said, now you're just over compensating and seeing things that aren't there. I give you a C- more the deflect effort

If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

I'm sure you are as you sit up there on your high horse, so classy you be

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

See that is what passive aggressive is and I've actually done a whole lot unlike you who keeps buying the bs all the while "telling" Marvel that they need to do better. What you don't realize is that by buying the bs you're telling Marvel that you like the bs and see no wrong in it as money talks louder then words which means that Marvel heard your money but not a single word you said and you know what I've been doing is the exact opposite of that aka I "talk" to Marvel but they damn sure don't see my $$$.

I haven't seen any positive portrayal of any men of color in any x-book and I damn sure have not seen any positive portrayal of Storm so why in the world would I give Marvel my money in support of that? Oh but apparently according to your very logic we no matter what gotta support black characters no matter what cause you know.....they be black which falls in line with a lot of the dumb asses seen over a cbr. That isn't asking for change that's asking for the same old bullsh*t and then getting mad( just like you're doing right now ) when others don't fall in line aka refusing to have class

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm

No I kick the truth at those "fans" who refuse to actually pay attention which at this moment in time is.....YOU

but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther.

At least I do something, I could be like you who just sits back and does nothing but lament about all the woes of the fandom like a soap opera actor

In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

Of course you would see me as the hypocrite as it makes it easier for you to sit on the sidelines as you again sit on your high horse and try to educate the masses. It makes it easier for you to sit there and believe what you're doing is right when in fact as I said earlier YOU are the hypocrite as you sit there on the side doing nothing all the while giving Marvel your money and then complaining about it thinking that you're changing something while you point at me saying I'm the one who's against change, I'm the one who's harmful to everyone, I'm the reason why "so & so's book got cancelled" because it's easier to take in then the cold hard truth that again YOU are indeed the hypocrite, YOU are the reason no one takes said black character seriously, YOU are the reason they can get away with it over and over
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Blanks on July 14, 2014, 02:04:46 am
If we all were in the room together that would be the moment where  the mic would be dropped.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: Salustrade on July 14, 2014, 05:42:06 am
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.


Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not sure how I missed this post but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Any "venom that's being spewed at Storm" should be seen as justified dissaproval aimed squarely at the current arbiters of her character within the X-books as well as the so-called fans who have been more than happy to sit back while her character has been systematically slutted out and generally made to look like a straight up fool within said X-books post AvX.

Practically all of the BP enthusiasts that I know on and offline, celebrated Ororo' awesomness and elevated importance within the 616 MU under Reginald Hudlin's pen and saw her as a solid counterpoint to T'Challa as a olidly humanizing character who was never afraid to steer her husband in the right direction.

We revered her character and loved what both Hudlin and McDuffie did with the Royal Couple across the Black Panther and Fantastic Four books that both of these magnificent writers were responible for writing at the time.

Mr Hudlin had Ororo being a total BOSS putting Tony Stark and Reed Richards in their respective places during the Marvel Civil War long before some X-Wankster had her mouthing this "X-Men are elite" BS recently, so let's not get too carried away here.

I personally hate X-related product and the office that spews forth the X-related filth that stinks up and derails every other part of the 616 MU that it touches.

I see the X-Office as being a hotbed of creators who are virulently anti the positive portrayal of Black heterosexual characters (specifically Black males) and definitely anti-Black heteroexual relationship and as such, I have zero time for anyone championing the support of product that disrepects things that I personally feel very trongly about.

Genki Sudo (like yourself) is consistent and forthright with his opinions on the way Storm has been handled and like myself, remains resolute in not giving Marvel any monies spent on product that blatantly disrespects us with each and every publication that emanates from within the X-office.

He is no hypocrite.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: moneyspider on July 14, 2014, 08:26:50 am
Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.


Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not sure how I missed this post but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Any "venom that's being spewed at Storm" should be seen as justified dissaproval aimed squarely at the current arbiters of her character within the X-books as well as the so-called fans who have been more than happy to sit back while her character has been systematically slutted out and generally made to look like a straight up fool within said X-books post AvX.

Practically all of the BP enthusiasts that I know on and offline, celebrated Ororo' awesomness and elevated importance within the 616 MU under Reginald Hudlin's pen and saw her as a solid counterpoint to T'Challa as a olidly humanizing character who was never afraid to steer her husband in the right direction.

We revered her character and loved what both Hudlin and McDuffie did with the Royal Couple across the Black Panther and Fantastic Four books that both of these magnificent writers were responible for writing at the time.

Mr Hudlin had Ororo being a total BOSS putting Tony Stark and Reed Richards in their respective places during the Marvel Civil War long before some X-Wankster had her mouthing this "X-Men are elite" BS recently, so let's not get too carried away here.

I personally hate X-related product and the office that spews forth the X-related filth that stinks up and derails every other part of the 616 MU that it touches.

I see the X-Office as being a hotbed of creators who are virulently anti the positive portrayal of Black heterosexual characters (specifically Black males) and definitely anti-Black heteroexual relationship and as such, I have zero time for anyone championing the support of product that disrepects things that I personally feel very trongly about.

Genki Sudo (like yourself) is consistent and forthright with his opinions on the way Storm has been handled and like myself, remains resolute in not giving Marvel any monies spent on product that blatantly disrespects us with each and every publication that emanates from within the X-office.

He is no hypocrite.

I disagree, and I stand by my assessment of him.
Title: Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
Post by: BmoreAkuma on July 14, 2014, 10:52:36 am

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?


Why should I waste my time sending “positive photos” where I can purchase books from other writers and artists whom are doing it already? For example Ericka Alexander

Money talks and it will always be the determining factor. Your pictures have no power no weight to change their minds. Just google black relationships and you will see people angry at each other. Do I like the sight of it? No of course not. But at the same I am not going to bark at the moon. I would rather create the power base to discredit these images. Take your dollar elsewhere to people whom are already doing the work.

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Does posting positive images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more positivity? To think that only a “picture” creates some type of power for anyone to realize this isn’t good enough. Create the power and take the so called “trillion” spending dollars elsewhere.

Let’s say we take out the hammer, we suddenly have one of the few “mainstream” black couples fighting each other. Depending on the writer they were in love or hated each other. Why should I as a consumer continue to pay money for something like that? No

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.
While you’re doing that, you’re ignoring some writers and companies that are doing that already. We as a base should make them work to get our support, not the other way around.
But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

Complain? That is a wasted emotion. Instead I won’t and of course more will continue to purchase more and more and complain in why Marvel isn’t doing their part.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen in terms of how non-white characters are portrayed.
For over 75 years they haven’t shown any true sense of characterization of PoC. Not even 3D characters. It is either they are Sidney Poitier or John Shaft; there is no middl