Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: JRCarter on February 09, 2015, 10:21:08 am

Title: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: JRCarter on February 09, 2015, 10:21:08 am
It all started with Roy Thomas in the Avengers.

Some might argue that Don McGregor had diminished him somewhat.

Then we had Jonathan Maberry with Doomwar.

Now, we've got Jonathan Hickman, who has actually destroyed Wakanda.

Which one would you say has diminished him the most?
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Francisco on February 09, 2015, 12:18:17 pm
Roy Thomas no doubt about it. Despite everything the other guys did to T'Challa he still was a scientist. Roy Thomas turned him into a glorified acrobat.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on February 09, 2015, 01:01:17 pm
Roy Thomas was the OG but Maberry and Hickman have between the both of them put the final nail in the coffin of the BP mythos.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Booshman on February 09, 2015, 01:57:05 pm
Roy Thomas. No question.

He took away BP's trait as a H2H fighter, because Cap was in the Avengers. And then he took away the genius inventor trait, because Tony was there. But Mayberry definltely (and Hickman, if he's doesn't stop writing BP in this ridiculous manner) gets an honorable mention.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on February 09, 2015, 02:32:45 pm
Roy Thomas. No question.

He took away BP's trait as a H2H fighter, because Cap was in the Avengers. And then he took away the genius inventor trait, because Tony was there. But Mayberry definltely (and Hickman, if he's doesn't stop writing BP in this ridiculous manner) gets an honorable mention.

Bro, Hickman has destroyed Wakanda, killed of shuri and made a nonsense out of T'Challa in the here and now so forget what Roy Thomas did back in the 70's.

It's the here and now that matters
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 09, 2015, 06:36:19 pm
Hickman isn't the first person to "destroy" Wakanda And then bring out back at the end of the story.  Busiek,  Fabian N. bought write stores where the villain reshaped the entire world , including Wakanda, into the villain's play thing.   (Morgana Le Fey and Lady Sphinx). But when the story ended,  it was all back to normal.   Stalin enslaved the earth, including Wakanda then destroyed the universe in Marvel Universe: The End.  Then he put it all back. Until we see the end of this story,  we don't know if he intends Wakanda 's destruction or Shuri's death to be permanent.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on February 09, 2015, 07:49:47 pm
Hickman isn't the first person to "destroy" Wakanda And then bring out back at the end of the story.  Busiek,  Fabian N. bought write stores where the villain reshaped the entire world , including Wakanda, into the villain's play thing.   (Morgana Le Fey and Lady Sphinx). But when the story ended,  it was all back to normal.   Stalin enslaved the earth, including Wakanda then destroyed the universe in Marvel Universe: The End.  Then he put it all back. Until we see the end of this story,  we don't know if he intends Wakanda 's destruction or Shuri's death to be permanent.

Fraction outright killed T'Challa like a punk and I think destroyed Wakanda too.  As did Bendis.  Both of them reverted it.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on February 09, 2015, 08:07:32 pm
Hickman isn't the first person to "destroy" Wakanda And then bring out back at the end of the story.  Busiek,  Fabian N. bought write stores where the villain reshaped the entire world , including Wakanda, into the villain's play thing.   (Morgana Le Fey and Lady Sphinx). But when the story ended,  it was all back to normal.   Stalin enslaved the earth, including Wakanda then destroyed the universe in Marvel Universe: The End.  Then he put it all back. Until we see the end of this story,  we don't know if he intends Wakanda 's destruction or Shuri's death to be permanent.

Fraction outright killed T'Challa like a punk and I think destroyed Wakanda too.  As did Bendis.  Both of them reverted it.

Hickman however, has written T'Challa as a fool whose actions led to the utter decimation of Wakanda so as far as I'm concerned, he's done the most damage to the character as well as totally disrespected Reginald Hudlin's run by killing Shuri.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 09, 2015, 08:23:37 pm
Hickman isn't the first person to "destroy" Wakanda And then bring out back at the end of the story.  Busiek,  Fabian N. bought write stores where the villain reshaped the entire world , including Wakanda, into the villain's play thing.   (Morgana Le Fey and Lady Sphinx). But when the story ended,  it was all back to normal.   Stalin enslaved the earth, including Wakanda then destroyed the universe in Marvel Universe: The End.  Then he put it all back. Until we see the end of this story,  we don't know if he intends Wakanda 's destruction or death to be permanent.

All of which is/was comparatively, very obscure in scope and duration to "Time (never) Runs Out."  T'Challa was more of a contributor under Roy Thomas' pen, without ever witlessly putting Wakanda in danger of annihilation.  Also, T'Challa was more of a fish out of water as part of Thomas' Avengers, in a much simpler era of storytelling.  Priest, with creative ingenuity grounded in common sense, transformed Panther and Hudlin subsequently emboldened the entire nation of Wakanda.  They raised the bar higher even than Stan and Jack's introduction.  Hands down Hickman has done more damage than any other, IMO.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Ture on February 09, 2015, 08:35:48 pm
(http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Jonathan-Hickman.jpg)

Jonathan Hickman Public Enemy No. 1

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREBG8M-Z2jw8Oqr33-PK69poHziFAUGvI025tEg9PDMYGaCNLD)

Jonthan Maberry Public Enemy No. 2
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on February 10, 2015, 04:56:15 am
Caping for Hickman is beneath contempt.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 10, 2015, 10:01:24 am
All I am saying is,  Until it is over we don't know what is going on.   For all we know,  this will turn out to be a fake T'challa, or it is all going according to his plan, where no Wakandan has died;  they are all LMDs and the real Wakanda is in a pocket universe.     

True I don't believe it will happen that way.   I think he is very much the kind of writer who believes in destroying heroes to  build them up.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he had been told to clear the board with T' Challa and Wakanda because Marvel wants the comic and the Movies to line up. 

But bottom line is until it is over,  we don't know what his game plan is.   When it is all over,  Then you can say,  he is the worse.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on February 10, 2015, 11:37:46 am
All I am saying is,  Until it is over we don't know what is going on.   For all we know,  this will turn out to be a fake T'challa, or it is all going according to his plan, where no Wakandan has died;  they are all LMDs and the real Wakanda is in a pocket universe.     

True I don't believe it will happen that way.   I think he is very much the kind of writer who believes in destroying heroes to  build them up.  And I wouldn't be surprised if he had been told to clear the board with T' Challa and Wakanda because Marvel wants the comic and the Movies to line up. 

But bottom line is until it is over,  we don't know what his game plan is.   When it is all over,  Then you can say,  he is the worse.

Anyone who writes T'Challa as an out of character moron while farming out all of his established traits and prep-time strategic traits to Reed Richards is definitely not someone I'd qualify as being the best.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 10, 2015, 12:02:56 pm
Never said he was the best.   He isn't even the best Avengers writer, or FF writer.  Or close to it.

At least he is making up for how bad he wrote Reed in the FF.  In his FF run,  Reed was always two steps behind his toddler daughter,  his father and the adult version of his children.

And Reed had always been ten steps ahead of everyone until modern writers started making him flawed,  introvert who it's out of touch, absent minded, etc.  Orginally he was "the most interesting man in the world. " type of character.   People forget originally Reed was a sucessful soldier, and a martial arts expert.   When was the last time you saw Reed written as an ex-soldier.  In this case, he didn't farm out BP skills to Reed; he reclaimed what Reed originally was.  Funny thing is that he didn't write Reed that way in his own comic.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 10, 2015, 03:50:27 pm
I can't get with this, 'wait and see how it ends...' mentality.  We are not talking about a four or six issue arc (and don't forget how we were rewarded for our patience during DoomWar)!

This has been dragging out for years.  What we have is what we have.  No matter what some writer comes along and pulls out of an a$& to undo what Hickman's done (if that even happens) we still experienced, paid for (some of it anyway) and agonized over the destruction of T'Challa and Wakanda in real time over the course of years!  "Okay, it was all a fanboy dream sequence, Wakanda was never destroyed" doesn't relieve that frustration or give me that time and money back.  I can unequivocally say right now, Hickman has been the worse!

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 10, 2015, 04:08:30 pm
I am not saying it will reward us for our patience.   Actually,  I doubt  most here will be happy,  but I just don't think you can know until it is over with.   Suspect it,  have confidence,  yes,  But for all we know T'challa is on the last page waking up from the surgery to remove the tumor Priest have him.  And everything been a dream.

Plus,  I wonder if this is all Hickman or is he under orders to do some of these things?  Did he decide to destroy Atilla and release the gas creating more Inhumans or was he told to do that as Marvel movies change the importance of the Inhumans? Did he choose to kill Shuri or was he told to by the next BP writer?
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: supreme illuminati on February 10, 2015, 04:57:26 pm
I am not saying it will reward us for our patience.   Actually,  I doubt  most here will be happy,  but I just don't think you can know until it is over with.   Suspect it,  have confidence,  yes,  But for all we know T'challa is on the last page waking up from the surgery to remove the tumor Priest have him.  And everything been a dream.

Plus,  I wonder if this is all Hickman or is he under orders to do some of these things?  Did he decide to destroy Atilla and release the gas creating more Inhumans or was he told to do that as Marvel movies change the importance of the Inhumans? Did he choose to kill Shuri or was he told to by the next BP writer?

Very. Good. Points.  Excellent response.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KidKamikaze10 on February 10, 2015, 05:17:45 pm
I am not saying it will reward us for our patience.   Actually,  I doubt  most here will be happy,  but I just don't think you can know until it is over with.   Suspect it,  have confidence,  yes,  But for all we know T'challa is on the last page waking up from the surgery to remove the tumor Priest have him.  And everything been a dream.


I totally doubt that, but we do know that Bast's prophecy has to be completed. The whole thing, not just the agonizing parts.  Now, whether that will live up to the years of tragedy, beats me.  It's very possible, but more than anything else, I'm pretty sure Hickman will be known more for the fall than the return to status quo or more. That is, unless he performs some feats in Secret Wars that eclipses anything he's done before.

People focus on the negative, especially when the status quo of the character is usually meant to be positive, and there has been a whole lot of negative done on purpose in this run.

And I say that as someone who is liking it.

Quote
Plus,  I wonder if this is all Hickman or is he under orders to do some of these things?  Did he decide to destroy Atilla and release the gas creating more Inhumans or was he told to do that as Marvel movies change the importance of the Inhumans? Did he choose to kill Shuri or was he told to by the next BP writer?

That's a decent question.  I don't think so though; I think this was is on Hickman. 
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: supreme illuminati on February 10, 2015, 06:05:56 pm
Hickman isn't the first person to "destroy" Wakanda And then bring out back at the end of the story.  Busiek,  Fabian N. bought write stores where the villain reshaped the entire world , including Wakanda, into the villain's play thing.   (Morgana Le Fey and Lady Sphinx). But when the story ended,  it was all back to normal.   Stalin enslaved the earth, including Wakanda then destroyed the universe in Marvel Universe: The End.  Then he put it all back. Until we see the end of this story,  we don't know if he intends Wakanda 's destruction or Shuri's death to be permanent.

Exceptional points. And absolutely my argument, too. Except...I missed the Lady Sphinx saga.

Here it is: If Hickman puts TChalla in the basement, keeps Wakanda merked, etc? DESPITE the alleged upgrade that KOTD is supposed to be? Etc? Yeah. Hickman overtakes Maberry by leaps and bounds...but still doesn't trump Roy OR whatshisname from PANTHER'S RAGE. I like the original scriptor whatshisname's passion, but...TChalla talked too damn much. He really did. And he was always getting beat up. And running from here to there. Bleeding. Being noble and getting beat up. Running some more. Nonstop talking. And getting beat up. While being noble and bleeding. And not using ANY of his uberadvanced tech. While he talked too much, got beat, bled a lot, and...ran from place to place.


I can't get with this, 'wait and see how it ends...' mentality.  We are not talking about a four or six issue arc (and don't forget how we were rewarded for our patience during DoomWar)!

This has been dragging out for years.  What we have is what we have.  No matter what some writer comes along and pulls out of an a$& to undo what Hickman's done (if that even happens) we still experienced, paid for (some of it anyway) and agonized over the destruction of T'Challa and Wakanda in real time over the course of years!  "Okay, it was all a fanboy dream sequence, Wakanda was never destroyed" doesn't relieve that frustration or give me that time and money back.  I can unequivocally say right now, Hickman has been the worse!

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont

TChalla has been a chump post intro in F4. It took 20+years for Gillis--who first wrote BP with some swag, in his 4 part miniseries--to give BP some shine.

 And then CJP broke the mold, recast it, and created for all time The Royal Unflappable Man With The Plan, King of Wakanda, Tech Uberchamp, and...as CJP himself put it..."the shrewdest man in the MU."

 And then our Ultimate OG RH built The Unconquered and The Unconquerable Black Panther and Wakanda.

Took 30 years for OUR TChalla to show.

I think asking 3 years to craft a literally MU changing saga that permanently puts our BP as the ultimate badazz he will be in the movies as THEE BP...and spawning a solo series to boot, also championing our ultimate badazz BP, mixing the best of Ultimate BP with 616 BP...is not much to ask. Given what we've already gone through.

Also? Been since 2011 since TChalla was even THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN ALIVE. It's 2015 now. That's 4 years and counting. That's LONGER than what Hickman is asking us to wait.

4 years since we caught hide nor hair nor whiff of TChalla in a solo. 3 years til the MU will embrace TChalla as the very best of combination of every incarnation he's ever had in the 616 and the Ultimate Universe. Plus rock movies to boot. And be UNIVERSALLY embraced as the Batman or Ras-al Ghul of the MU [ here's hoping for Ras-al Ghul, as CJP crafted him ]. Mixed in with THE HARDCORE ESSENCE OF TCHALLA RH BP.

Let's put it another way. Even if you don't wait the 3 years? Cool The 3 years is gonna pass and it's gonna happen anyway. With or without ANY of us. That's the reality.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: supreme illuminati on February 10, 2015, 06:10:30 pm
I am not saying it will reward us for our patience.   Actually,  I doubt  most here will be happy,  but I just don't think you can know until it is over with.   Suspect it,  have confidence,  yes,  But for all we know T'challa is on the last page waking up from the surgery to remove the tumor Priest have him.  And everything been a dream.


I totally doubt that, but we do know that Bast's prophecy has to be completed. The whole thing, not just the agonizing parts.  Now, whether that will live up to the years of tragedy, beats me.  It's very possible, but more than anything else, I'm pretty sure Hickman will be known more for the fall than the return to status quo or more. That is, unless he performs some feats in Secret Wars that eclipses anything he's done before.

People focus on the negative, especially when the status quo of the character is usually meant to be positive, and there has been a whole lot of negative done on purpose in this run.

And I say that as someone who is liking it.

Quote
Plus,  I wonder if this is all Hickman or is he under orders to do some of these things?  Did he decide to destroy Atilla and release the gas creating more Inhumans or was he told to do that as Marvel movies change the importance of the Inhumans? Did he choose to kill Shuri or was he told to by the next BP writer?

That's a decent question.  I don't think so though; I think this was is on Hickman.

I am liking this story overall, too...and agree with almost 100% of what you wrote up there.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 10, 2015, 06:23:47 pm
I am not saying it will reward us for our patience.   Actually,  I doubt  most here will be happy,  but I just don't think you can know until it is over with.   Suspect it,  have confidence,  yes,  But for all we know T'challa is on the last page waking up from the surgery to remove the tumor Priest have him.  And everything been a dream.

Plus,  I wonder if this is all Hickman or is he under orders to do some of these things?  Did he decide to destroy Atilla and release the gas creating more Inhumans or was he told to do that as Marvel movies change the importance of the Inhumans? Did he choose to kill Shuri or was he told to by the next BP writer?

You are hypothesizing excuses for the dreck we've been offered for years without knowing the endgame.  What's more real?  Am I to see your "half full" glass as more valid than my "half empty" one?  All we have is what's in print.  It can't be wiped from our collective consciousness.  It can only be undone as ridiculously as comic book deaths are resurrected.  Nice try with Priest's aneurysm but play that out and tell me how a three year nightmare raises T'Challa's profile?  Or that Marvel would invest all these books in him including the seemingly inextricable Secret Wars/Battle World?  Just to return him to what, for what?  Couch the prospects for a satisfying third act all you want but acts one and two are still part of the story.  Would you watch it again?  Would you buy the collected tomes?  I wouldn't regardless of how it ends.

No doubt Marvel is complicit in this mess but this is Hickman's grand design right?  The multi-year plan that he pitched.  Most of this dog is at his feet.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 10, 2015, 06:33:13 pm
I didn't mean the aneurysm as a literal option, just as a representation that we don't know what is the end game for BP and Wakanda.   Yeah,  if it is garbage,  then there is no pay off.

But we are talking about a storyline where other things have happened that you know are going to be undone.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Ture on February 10, 2015, 07:07:38 pm
Kip, if things are going to be undone then what is the value of doing them in the first place? Especially doing those things that so detract from the essential core values that define and underscore the character.

Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 10, 2015, 07:14:47 pm
Well,


S P O I L E R S......




the deaths of Namor and the Cabal didn't actually get done, right?  T'Challa clearly thinks he succeeded but I believe they escaped to the 1606 Earth.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 10, 2015, 07:24:30 pm
Kip, if things are going to be undone then what is the value of doing them in the first place? Especially doing those things that so detract from the essential core values that define and underscore the character.

My sentiments exactly!

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 11, 2015, 03:33:40 am
Kip, if things are going to be undone then what is the value of doing them in the first place? Especially doing those things that so detract from the essential core values that define and underscore the character.
because comic book writers, no all writers,  have been doing that for decades.   

For example, Civil War.

In my mind, that story destroyed a lot.  Spider-man revealing his identity to the world, destroyed a fundamental part of the character.  Ripped it to shreds.  And then a year or so later, they undo it.  (I'm convinced that was the plan all along and that's one reason they did it.)  Of course, I know people who thought the marriage destroyed a fundamental characteristic of Spider-man.  And undoing it, fixed it.

I also thought Civil War destroyed friendships for good.  I saw it as completely ruining the friendships between heroes that existed for decades.  Now, Cap and Tony and Thor are buddies like nothing every happened.  Well, until this story,  But it won't last either.

Marvel, DC, etc., always write stories that do something that you think radically destroys or changes something about a character and then undo it.  Sometimes they undo it with some "magical" solution and other times they just ignore it.  (And sometimes they embrace it, like turning Cyclops into something 180 degrees different than the man Stan Lee and Jack Kirby created.)  Only rarely has something happened that truly stained the character, like Hank slapping Jan.  When they wrote that, they thought it would be a minor, one note event.  It destroyed Hank Pym.
 

But until this is over, we don't know if this is one of those, everything goes back to the way it was kind of stories or a status quo changing thing until the next status quo changing event.

What makes this different is you care about this character and don't like what they are doing.  But this is normal storytelling in comics ever since  event-driven, status quo changing has become the norm.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Metro on February 11, 2015, 08:07:28 am
Well,


S P O I L E R S......




the deaths of Namor and the Cabal didn't actually get done, right?  T'Challa clearly thinks he succeeded but I believe they escaped to the 1606 Earth.

Peace,

Mont

I think T'Challa used Namor as a plant.  The whole story of his hesitation to blow up the planet has not yet been told.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 11, 2015, 03:42:08 pm
I suppose that if T'Challa had predicted the surprise incursion and reasoned Namor and the Cabal would need a few minutes to escape to the Ultimate universe which would somehow allow T'Challa to save one version of Wakanda, there could be something to say for that.  But I practically just guaranteed that won't happen and even if it did it wouldn't absolve Hickman of crimes against Wakanda, IMO.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: A.Curry on February 11, 2015, 04:48:36 pm
Hickman.

Even Maberry and Thomas didn't have him crying like lil' bitch. 
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Mad Coco G on February 11, 2015, 08:42:22 pm
Jason Aaron
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Blanks on February 12, 2015, 01:46:09 pm
Whoever wrote the issues preiDoomwar and Doonwar.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 12, 2015, 03:01:05 pm
Whoever wrote the issues preiDoomwar and Doonwar.

Starting when?  Reggie wrote some of those issues.

Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Blanks on February 12, 2015, 04:15:10 pm
After Reggie left.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: supreme illuminati on February 12, 2015, 04:18:15 pm
After Reggie left.


That's Maberry.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Blanks on February 12, 2015, 05:15:16 pm
Gotcha. I tend to purge unimportant info out of my brain when it's necesarry. Doomwar was necessary to be purged, lol
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 12, 2015, 05:25:09 pm
Gotcha. I tend to purge unimportant info out of my brain when it's necesarry. Doomwar was necessary to be purged, lol

I tend to purge that story too.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Kimoyo on February 12, 2015, 07:26:50 pm
One thing I think DoomWar could have helped established is Reed and T'Challa as #'s 1 & 2 for brainpower in the MU, if they had the guts?

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Emperorjones on February 13, 2015, 09:07:33 am
^
Wasn't there a list that came out around the time of DoomWar that had T'Challa as 8th in terms of brain power in the Marvel universe?
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: JRCarter on February 13, 2015, 06:48:26 pm
Jason Aaron

Can't believe I didn't include him.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Emperorjones on February 14, 2015, 07:22:28 am
Whoever wrote the issues preiDoomwar and Doonwar.

I definitely think DoomWar punked out T'Challa but preDoomWar-the "Power" arc I didn't think was so bad. It started T'Challa down a potentially interesting path with shadow physics-which never paid off-while doing Maberry's best job of handling Shuri.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: JRCarter on April 11, 2015, 05:24:37 pm
Just remembered another writer who tended to diminish T'Challa: Jim Shooter.

During the time he wrote Avengers, he more often than not had T'Challa being the first one taken out of the fight.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on April 12, 2015, 04:41:19 am
Hickman is the main writer diminshing T'Challa in the here and now so as far as I'm concerned, his actions are worse than all of the others that came before him.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: JRCarter on June 21, 2016, 10:54:19 am
Can we officially add Ta-Nehisi Coates to the list?
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on June 21, 2016, 01:50:25 pm
Can we officially add Ta-Nehisi Coates to the list?

Phuck Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Yes, I said it.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: The Evasive 1 on June 21, 2016, 02:15:25 pm
Jason Aaron

Can't believe I didn't include him.
Aaron? Really? Didn't he do the "See Wakanda and Die" arc? The one that T"Challa took out the Super Skrull and the entire invasion? I actually didn't have a problem with Aaron compared to all the other writers before Priest and after Hudlin.

Can we officially add Ta-Nehisi Coates to the list?

Phuck Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Yes, I said it.
I wasn't ready to say something that drastic yet, but I totally understand your feelings on him. I might join you soon based on what I'm seeing in his writing. Funny though. I remeber alluding that "all folk ain't your kinfolk" in reference to what Coates was doing with BP and somebody responded that, because of Coates work in journalism chronicling the plight of people of color, the analogy shouldn't be applied to him.

Hmm, okay.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Salustrade on June 21, 2016, 02:43:59 pm
Jason Aaron

Can't believe I didn't include him.
Aaron? Really? Didn't he do the "See Wakanda and Die" arc? The one that T"Challa took out the Super Skrull and the entire invasion? I actually didn't have a problem with Aaron compared to all the other writers before Priest and after Hudlin.

Can we officially add Ta-Nehisi Coates to the list?

Phuck Ta-Nehisi Coates.

Yes, I said it.
I wasn't ready to say something that drastic yet, but I totally understand your feelings on him. I might join you soon based on what I'm seeing in his writing. funny though. I remeber alluding that "every brother and ain't a brother" in reference to what Coates was doing with BP and somebody responded that, because of Coates work in journalism chronicling the plight of people of color, the analogy shouldn't be applied to him.

Hmm, okay.

Have you seen the latest solicits for the BP books coming out post #3, yet?
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: KIP LEWIS on June 21, 2016, 02:46:24 pm
Quote from: JRCarter on February 13, 2015, 06:48:26 pm
Quote from: Genki Sudo on February 11, 2015, 08:42:22 pm
Jason Aaron

Can't believe I didn't include him.
Aaron? Really? Didn't he do the "See Wakanda and Die" arc? The one that T"Challa took out the Super Skrull and the entire invasion? I actually didn't have a problem with Aaron compared to all the other writers before Priest and after Hudlin



Aaron started with the premise that Wakanda COULDN'T best the Skrulls in a fair fight.  First mistake. 

Second, he has T'Challa create a plan based upon the idea that the Skrulls would commit their entire force in a single attack.  If the Skrull commander held half his forces back (like a wise Commander would do) they would have arrived with their tech intact while the Wakandans were fighting with sticks.  But T'Challa had no reserve of his own.  So basically he wrote a T'challa who won because Skrull commander was dumber than he was.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: Rurouni KJS on June 21, 2016, 11:12:47 pm
Shoot. I'ma be controversial and say HUDLIN.

He's the one that first had T'Challa taking the L from Doom so hard that Shuri had to be the Black Panther, setting up all the diminishings that came later in Doomwar*, AvX, Hell's Kitchen, Time Runs Out, AND maybe now Black Panther vol. 6.

Seriously. I got shade for Shuri.

*I just found this mini in a 50 cents box. Not a fan. Felt like a 4-issue story stretched to 6 and the end was really unsatisfying.
Title: Re: Which writer diminished T'Challa the most?
Post by: JRCarter on June 22, 2016, 04:36:18 pm
Shoot. I'ma be controversial and say HUDLIN.

He's the one that first had T'Challa taking the L from Doom so hard that Shuri had to be the Black Panther, setting up all the diminishings that came later in Doomwar*, AvX, Hell's Kitchen, Time Runs Out, AND maybe now Black Panther vol. 6.

Seriously. I got shade for Shuri.

*I just found this mini in a 50 cents box. Not a fan. Felt like a 4-issue story stretched to 6 and the end was really unsatisfying.

Yeah, that's pretty controversial here.