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Comics => Comic Reviews and Spoilers => Topic started by: Marvelous on February 21, 2015, 03:13:17 pm

Title: X-BlackMen
Post by: Marvelous on February 21, 2015, 03:13:17 pm
Don't know how much of this is true yet.

(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10978686_767514653316661_5621075137757815901_n.jpg?oh=371711768dc4ff2136c19b2065cda59c&oe=554FF443)

Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Francisco on February 21, 2015, 06:01:16 pm
Absolutely nothing. The X-MEN is about white guys with super powers fighting each others so the publisher (Marvel comics) makes lots of money.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Marvelous on February 21, 2015, 06:30:48 pm
Absolutely nothing. The X-MEN is about white guys with super powers fighting each others so the publisher (Marvel comics) makes lots of money.

Thanks for the response Francisco.  It's been spreading all on FB. Someone posted it on my page from Exposing Black Consciousness Official. (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Exposing-Black-Consciousness-Official/555956287805833?fref=photo)  Although I would'nt compare the characters of the X-Men to legendary icons as Malcolm X and MLK and I do know that Marvel started making money after the X-book was almost cancelled, the books have just about touched on a lot of subject, was it Claremont that wrote the N-Word issue awhile back?

Quote
Racism: Although this was not initially the case, Professor X has come to be compared to civil rights leader Martin Luther King, Jr. and Magneto to the more militant Malcolm X.  The X-Men’s purpose is sometimes referred to as achieving "Xavier’s dream," perhaps a reference to King’s historic "I Have a Dream" speech. (Magneto, in the first film, quotes Malcolm X with the line "By any means necessary.") X-Men comic books have often portrayed mutants as victims of mob violence, evoking images of the lynching of African Americans in the age before the American civil rights movement.  Sentinels and antimutant hate groups such as Friends of Humanity, Humanity's Last Stand, the Church of Humanity and Stryker's Purifiers are thought to often represent oppressive forces like the Ku Klux Klan giving a form to denial of civil rights and amendments.  In the 1980s, the comic featured a plot involving the fictional island nation of Genosha, where mutants are segregated and enslaved by an apartheid state. This is widely interpreted as a reference to the situation in South Africa at the time.

Anti-Semitism: Explicitly referenced in recent decades is the comparison between antimutant sentiment and anti-Semitism. Magneto, a Holocaust survivor, sees the situation of mutants as similar to those of Jews in Nazi Germany.[31][37] At one point he even utters the words "never again" in a 1992 episode of the X-Men animated series. The mutant slave labor camps on the island of Genosha, in which numbers were burned into mutant's foreheads, show much in common with Nazi concentration camps,[37][38][39] as do the internment camps of the classic "Days of Future Past" storyline.[40] In the third X-Men film, when asked by Callisto: "If you're so proud of being a mutant, then where's your mark?" Magneto shows his concentration camp tattoo, while mentioning that he will never let another needle touch his skin. In the prequel film X-Men: First Class, a fourteen-year-old Magneto suffers Nazi human experimentation during his time in the camps and witnesses his mother's death by gunshot.

Diversity: Characters within the X-Men mythos hail from a wide variety of nationalities. These characters also reflect religious, ethnic or sexual minorities. Examples include Shadowcat, Sabra and Magneto who are Jewish, Dust who is a devout Muslim, Nightcrawler who is a devout Catholic, and Neal Shaara/Thunderbird who is Hindu. Storm represents two aspects of the African diaspora as her father was African American and her mother was Kenyan. Karma was portrayed as a devout Catholic from Vietnam, who regularly attended Mass and confession when she was introduced as a founding member of the New Mutants.[41] This team also included Wolfsbane (a devout Scots Presbyterian), Danielle Moonstar (a Cheyenne Native American) and Cannonball, and was later joined by Magma (a devout Greco-Roman classical religionist). Different nationalities included Wolverine, Aurora, Northstar, Deadpool and Transonic as Canadians; Colossus and Magik from Russia; Banshee and Siryn from Ireland; Gambit who is a Cajun, the original Thunderbird who was an Apache Native American; Psylocke, Wolfsbane and Chamber from the UK; Armor, Surge and Zero from Japan; Nightcrawler from Germany; Legion from Israel; Omega Sentinel, Neal Shaara, Kavita Rao and Indra from India; Velocidad from Mexico; Oya from Nigeria; Primal from Ukraine; etc.

LGBT themes: Some commentators have noted the similarities between the struggles of mutants and the LGBT community, noting the onset of special powers around puberty and the parallels between being closeted and the mutants' concealment of their powers.[44] In the comics series, gay and bisexual characters include Anole, Bling!, Destiny, Karma, Mystique, Psylocke, Courier, Northstar (whose marriage was depicted in the comics in 2012), Graymalkin, Rictor, Shatterstar and the Ultimate version of Colossus. In the film X2, Bobby Drake's mother asks him, "Have you ever tried not being a mutant?" after revealing that he is a mutant. Transgender issues also come up with shapechangers like Mystique, Copycat, and Courier who can change gender at will. It has been said that the comic books and the X-Men animated series delved into the AIDS epidemic with a long-running plot line about the Legacy Virus, a seemingly incurable disease thought at first to attack only mutants (similar to the AIDS virus which at first was spread through the gay community).

Red Scare: Occasionally, undercurrents of the "Red Scare" are present. Senator Robert Kelly's proposal of a Mutant Registration Act is similar to the efforts of United States Congress to try to ban Communism in the United States.[39] In the 2000 X-Men film, Kelly exclaims, "We must know who these mutants are and what they can do," even brandishing a "list" of known mutants (a reference to Senator Joseph McCarthy's list of Communist Party USA members who were working in the government).

Religion: Religion is an integral part of several X-Men storylines. It is presented as both a positive and negative force, sometimes in the same story. The comics explore religious fundamentalism through the person of William Stryker and his Purifiers, an antimutant group that emerged in the 1982 graphic novel God Loves, Man Kills. The Purifiers believe that mutants are not human beings but children of the devil, and have attempted to exterminate them several times, most recently in the "Childhood's End" storyline. By contrast, religion is also central to the lives of several X-Men, such as Nightcrawler, a devout Catholic, and Dust, a devout Sunni Muslim who wears an Islamic niqāb.

Subculture: In some cases, the mutants of the X-Men universe sought to create a subculture of the typical mutant society portrayed. The Morlocks, though mutants like those attending Xavier's school, hide away from society within the tunnels of New York. These Morlock tunnels serve as the backdrop for several X-Men stories, most notably The Mutant Massacre crossover. This band of mutants illustrates another dimension to the comic, that of a group that further needs to isolate itself because society won't accept it.[47][48] In Grant Morrison’s stories of the early 2000s, mutants are portrayed as a distinct subculture with "mutant bands," mutant use of code-names as their primary form of self-identity (rather than their given birth names), and a popular mutant fashion designer who created outfits tailored to mutant physiology. The series District X takes place in an area of New York City called "Mutant Town."[36] These instances can also serve as analogies for the way that minority groups establish subcultures and neighborhoods of their own that distinguish them from the broader general culture. Director Bryan Singer has remarked that the X-Men franchise has served as a metaphor for acceptance of all people for their special and unique gifts. The mutant condition that is often kept secret from the world can be analogous to feelings of difference and fear usually developed in everyone during adolescence.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 21, 2015, 08:46:17 pm
Considering that when Stan Lee created Magneto, there was no nice side to him.  He was basically a Hitler wannabe.  I don't think the Malcolm X comparison is valid.  (Not really sure how MLK comparison with Prof. X is valid either.)  I mean, when Stan created them, they weren't two versions, two visions of how to deal with mutant kind.  They were a good mutant vs an evil mutant.  You know, original name, "Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants."  So, really, any painting Magneto as something other than evil, was a Clarmont recont.

True, I think the change has given us good interesting stories, but the claim that this was Stan Lee's original intent seems like a stretch.  (Unless Stan Lee thought Malcolm X was evil.)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kimoyo on February 22, 2015, 07:03:04 am
Excellent reply Kip.  Here is an interesting read on the topic:

Stan Lee has explained that his main impetus for having the superheroes be mutants was that he wouldn’t have to invent origin stories for every new character. However, he also claims that the comparison to Civil Rights was present from the start. In a recent interview he said, “It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” - R. Orion Martin

http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/ (http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/)

One great thing about comics and Stan's X-Men in particular is that, however unintentional, their creation has provided the raw material with which to draw comparisons to real life issues, issues that a segment of our population may not otherwise contemplate?

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 22, 2015, 08:29:11 am
Excellent reply Kip.  Here is an interesting read on the topic:

Stan Lee has explained that his main impetus for having the superheroes be mutants was that he wouldn’t have to invent origin stories for every new character. However, he also claims that the comparison to Civil Rights was present from the start. In a recent interview he said, “It not only made them different, but it was a good metaphor for what was happening with the civil rights movement in the country at that time.” - R. Orion Martin

[url]http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/[/url] ([url]http://www.orionnotes.com/art/2014/what-if-the-x-men-were-black-essay-on-the-series-x-men-of-color/[/url])

One great thing about comics and Stan's X-Men in particular is that, however unintentional, their creation has provided the raw material with which to draw comparisons to real life issues, issues that a segment of our population may not otherwise contemplate?

Peace,

Mont


two things; Stan Lee has a notoriously bad memory.  In 1975 when he wrote Sons of Origins of Marvel Comics he wrote "We decided to create two groups of mutants, one evil and the other good.  One would be eternally striving to subjugate mankind, and the other would be ceaselessly battling to protect the human race."  (p. 14) That doesn't sound like the Civil Rights Movement. 

And two, claiming influences by the Civil Rights movement and claiming one man represents MLK and the other represents Malcolm X are two different things. 

A lot of people look backwards through the mirror of turning Magneto into a freedom fighter, holocaust survivor and former best friend of Xavier with two competing views of the future.  But back then, he wasn't that.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Emperorjones on February 22, 2015, 12:36:57 pm
I had heard that MLK and Malcolm X were inspirations for Professor X and Magneto. I believe it. For some white people (and probably others too)  I could see them seeing Malcolm X as being as villainous as Magneto. So that doesn't bother me. Back in the day at least I remember there being references to Xavier's "Dream" for mutant/human peaceful co-existence, who does that sound like? And in the X-Men movies Magneto once uttered "By any means necessary" (if my memory serves) and Mystique even referred to her 'slave name'. Though I wish there were more black allusions to the X-Men, in the films (especially First Class), there have been some and I have to say it is based off this civil rights inspiration of the X-Men.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 22, 2015, 12:59:10 pm
I had heard that MLK and Malcolm X were inspirations for Professor X and Magneto. I believe it. For some white people (and probably others too)  I could see them seeing Malcolm X as being as villainous as Magneto. So that doesn't bother me. Back in the day at least I remember there being references to Xavier's "Dream" for mutant/human peaceful co-existence, who does that sound like? And in the X-Men movies Magneto once uttered "By any means necessary" (if my memory serves) and Mystique even referred to her 'slave name'. Though I wish there were more black allusions to the X-Men, in the films (especially First Class), there have been some and I have to say it is based off this civil rights inspiration of the X-Men.

Those comments in the movies  about slave names and  quoting Malcolm X happened after Claremont changed things.   

In Sons of Origins of Marvel comics Stan explains the reasons behind the X-Men.  He never mentions the Civil Rights movement in this book.   This book was written before Claremont changed the nature of Magneto and before the idea that these two represented Martin Luther King  Jr. and Malcolm X gained a foothold.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: APEXABYSS on February 22, 2015, 02:42:12 pm
Black History? Nah! Maybe a very small percentage. Tiny!

How about “The Wizard Of Oz“?  IMO- Stan was influenced by “Professor Marvel.”

In the film, the professor has “psychic abilities”. A mind-reader with the power of persuasion & influence? The Professor also plays The Wizard & several other characters in the film. The metaphor= The Wizard of Oz was really a good guy, but portrayed the wizard as a bad guy.

Dorothy travels with four characters= The Scare-Crow, Tin-Man, Cowardly-Lion & To-To (the original X-Men= Cyclops, Angel, Beast, Ice-Man & Jean Grey). Each character has unique untapped gifts.  It’s a deep flick!

Stan may have expanded on the concept during the CRM, but inspiration can come from several sources. I think he started with the film. Didn’t Professor X meet Magneto in Egypt? The comparisons are Uncanny. Let it marinate... 

Watch closely- listen carefully!

http://youtu.be/PJaxd1BQr9g (http://youtu.be/PJaxd1BQr9g)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 22, 2015, 03:23:37 pm
I think it was Claremont who introduced the idea that they first met in a Egypt,  not Stan.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Redjack on February 22, 2015, 03:34:46 pm
Don't know how much of this is true yet.

(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10978686_767514653316661_5621075137757815901_n.jpg?oh=371711768dc4ff2136c19b2065cda59c&oe=554FF443)

Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory


it's horse sh*t.


not only doesn't it make a lick of sense (mutants don't match up to anything but a white person's veiw of minorities. you can't create an underclass that matches us without factoring in slavery). Mutants work for immigrants and they work for homosexuals but they don't work for us and never have. Nor are they designed that way.


Not only is likening Magneto to Malcolm X a MASSIVE f*cking insult to the man, it shows a complete ignorance of him and his mission both pre and post Mecca.


If possible, matching Professor X to MLK is an even more offensive JOKE. You MIGHT get away with Booker T. Washington but even that is a stretch.


Some black folk are so freaking desperate to be included that they will leap on any straw and some white folk are so desperate to not be called racists they will shore up any false rumor that shows the history of Marvel and DC isn't buckshot with racism.


What really happened is, in the mid 1980s and early 90s (apartheid era South Africa) some genus at Marvel thought they could rehab Magneto (a genocidal MASS MURDERER, something Malcolm never was nor attempted) and broaden the audience by making Mutants proxies of blacks. It seemed to fit the climate of the times and allowed for more sorts of stories to be told. This was also the time when the whole "Children of the Atom" thing was abandoned, making mutants common rather than rare as they had been.


 I'm sure it felt good to some but it doesn't work and, frankly, is a bit insulting. You can only have a "One Size Fits All" attitude to minorities if you grow up in the majority and are a bit of a dick.


It's crap and should not be supported or spread around.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: JRCarter on February 22, 2015, 05:00:55 pm
Used to believe this. If it were true, it'd make what often happens to Black male mutants all the more appalling.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Francisco on February 22, 2015, 06:27:58 pm
Mutants are dangerous. Some are powerful enough to destroy an entire city just by thinking about it hell some could even destroy the entire planet. People is right when they're afraid of mutants. To compare mutants with blacks and other identifiable and prosecuted minorities is not just ludicrous but immoral as hell. Imaging mutants in the real world. Imaging having a neighbor who's body emits lethal radiation. He's a nice guy but he doesn't have any control over how or when his body will release the lethal radiation. Would it be bigotry to not want to live near that person? No. It would be common sense. If the government decided to isolate that person it wouldn't be due to prejudice or racism. The guy is a frigging weapon of mass destruction. The metaphor doesn't work at all because skin color, nationality, language, sexual orientation and culture are not the same as being able to melt people just by touching their hand.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Marvelous on February 22, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
Don't know how much of this is true yet.

(https://scontent-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10978686_767514653316661_5621075137757815901_n.jpg?oh=371711768dc4ff2136c19b2065cda59c&oe=554FF443)

Stan Lee created The X-Men in 1963. In the midst of The Civil Rights Movement, Lee wanted to create a comic that showed bigotry and racism via fantasy.

Magneto and Professor X were direct correlations of Martin & Malcolm. One had a dream of uniting all men. The other was more vigilant in their fight for respect. Salute to Stan.
#blackhistory


it's horse sh*t.


not only doesn't it make a lick of sense (mutants don't match up to anything but a white person's few of minorities. you can't create an underclass that matches us without factoring in slavery). Mutants work for immigrants and they work for homosexuals but they don't work for us and never have. Nor are they designed that way.


Not only is likening Magneto to Malcolm X a MASSIVE f*cking insult to the man, it shows a complete ignorance of him and his mission both pre and post Mecca.


If possible, matching Professor X to MLK is an even more offensive JOKE. You MIGHT get away with Booker T. Washington but even that is a stretch.


Some black folk are so freaking desperate to be included that they will leap on any straw and some white folk are so desperate to not be called racists they will shore up any false rumor that shows the history of Marvel and DC isn't buckshot with racism.


What really happened is, in the mid 1980s and early 90s (apartheid era South Africa) some genus at Marvel though they could rehab Magneto (a genocidal MASS MURDERER, something Malcolm never was nor attempted) and broaden the audience by making Mutants proxies of blacks. It seemed to fit the climate of the times and allowed for more sorts of stories to be told. This was also the time when the whole "Children of the Atom" thing was abandoned, making mutants common rather than rare as they had been.


 I'm sure it felt good to some but it doesn't work and, frankly, is a bit insulting. You can only have a "One Size Fits All" attitude to minorities if you grow up in the majority and are a bit of a dick.


It's crap and should not be supported or spread around.

Redjack you had me at horsesh*t!  ;D  The rest was just icing on the cake. :)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Redjack on February 22, 2015, 09:38:41 pm
Mutants are dangerous. Some are powerful enough to destroy an entire city just by thinking about it hell some could even destroy the entire planet. People is right when they're afraid of mutants. To compare mutants with blacks and other identifiable and prosecuted minorities is not just ludicrous but immoral as hell. Imaging mutants in the real world. Imaging having a neighbor who's body emits lethal radiation. He's a nice guy but he doesn't have any control over how or when his body will release the lethal radiation. Would it be bigotry to not want to live near that person? No. It would be common sense. If the government decided to isolate that person it wouldn't be due to prejudice or racism. The guy is a frigging weapon of mass destruction. The metaphor doesn't work at all because skin color, nationality, language, sexual orientation and culture are not the same as being able to melt people just by touching their hand.


QFT. It's PERFECTLY REASONABLE for the normal humans in the MU to be f*cking terrified of mutants. It's not unreasonable in the slightest. The metaphor simply does not work. Plus, all the X Men we focus on are STUNNINGLY attractive. So they're super-models WITH SUPER POWERS.


Please tell me how that f*cks your life up or makes it hard to vote.



Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Hypestyle on February 23, 2015, 05:49:24 am
very cool artwork.

Yeah, I think it's a stretch to retrofit the idea that two middle aged white Jewish guys working for a comic-book publisher in NYC circa 1962-63 were that "deep" into paying attention to the Civil Rights Movement to make a broadly allegorical collection of characters to "play out" such issues in a fantasy setting.

Some X-authors over the years have handled the outsider/prejudice allegory better than others.  In-universe, the general U.S. populace tends to be portrayed as cartoonishly reactionary and casually hypocritical (“gahh!!  A teen girl with scales!!  I’m scared! Send her to the containment camps now!  Oh, hey, there’s the flying dude who’s on fire! Gimme your autograph!”)  so even the “realistic” mutant paranoia is kind of relative..  of course, taking into account how various people have responded to the personage of Pres. Obama, the comics aren’t all that far off the mark when it comes to how someone tagged as an "Other" is treated.

.. and as it relates to New York City; well, Manhattan, certainly—it should be hollowed out by now, or have galactic-scale insurance premiums, for as many multiple disasters that seem to engulf the entire city year-in, year-out.  You might actually have a chance at a metahuman-disaster-free life in Detroit.

Taken literally, mutancy-as-racial/ethnic minority has obvious flaws but it's never been a dealbreaker for me to enjoy the books.  But I guess the latest "controversy" recently was Havok declaring that the term mutant in and of itself is 'racist' (author?).

The 12-year-old Hype reading this stuff back in the days was nonplussed, but in my adult life, if anything pissed me off over the years it would be recognizing that no adult black male hero characters under Claremont's lengthy tenure were created, just the Afro-Brazilian teen Sunspot (who of course, was prone to somewhat incongruous Spanish-based interjections as opposed to Portuguese) and, er, the largely mute "magic aboriginal" Gateway; and Storm "avoided" the black American community (or was never shown on-panel interacting in any substantive way.)  So I'd have to void Mr. Claremont's magnanimity cred, despite helming an otherwise compelling action/fantasy series for as long as he did.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Emperorjones on February 23, 2015, 03:27:13 pm
I don't think it's that much of a stretch. It was obviously in the news. Who knows how creative inspiration sparks? That doesn't mean that I think Stan Lee, for example, was deep into the Movement or had deep knowledge of the movement. He might have had a cursory understanding based on the news he saw. And that reporting might paint MLK as the hero and Malcolm X as the villain. Now I could see him extrapolating that into the comic book realm, and making that inspiration fit into a comic book that he could sell.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on February 23, 2015, 05:40:05 pm
I don't think it's that much of a stretch. It was obviously in the news. Who knows how creative inspiration sparks? That doesn't mean that I think Stan Lee, for example, was deep into the Movement or had deep knowledge of the movement. He might have had a cursory understanding based on the news he saw. And that reporting might paint MLK as the hero and Malcolm X as the villain. Now I could see him extrapolating that into the comic book realm, and making that inspiration fit into a comic book that he could sell.


That sounds plausible.
From what I understand, it was Jack Kirby who approached Stan Lee with the idea & drawing of a Black superhero first. Also, I understand that Jack loved to listen to the radio a lot while he was at the drawing board (most modern great artists do) so it would be reasonable to assume that Jack was well informed what was going on out in the real world... we are talking about the Civil Rights Movement, assassinations of world leaders & speakers   (JFK, MLK, X), rise of freedom fighters (the Black Panther Party), rioting, etc.

I strongly believe Jack & Stan's creation of a Black superhero, at that time, was a little more than coincidence.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BlackRodimus on February 23, 2015, 06:00:26 pm
Yeah I don't buy this either. The only way it could work as how they originally thought it up, and not as a retrofit (Claremont) was if they had very narrow and misunderstood views of what both MLK and Malcolm X stood for.

Magento was little more than Hitler with magnetic powers. He believed in attacking first, and subjugation. When did Malcolm X say anything of the sort? In fact he said the opposite. And how does Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants work if he was really a MX analogue? Unless the thought is that was a proxy for the Black Panther Party or the Nation of Islam.

People amening this narrative may want to look a bit closely at what they're actually saying, if they're trying to say NOW this was the idea at its inception. And to be honest with you, thanks to the dawn of the internet, folks could just Google MLX and MX and look at their quotes and see how it matches up pre-Claremont-revision Mags/Prof. X. That alone should blow holes in that theory.

Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Emperorjones on February 23, 2015, 06:08:26 pm
Even now how many people know what Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam actually promoted? To me, Malcolm has been seen as a 'hate preacher'. And a lot of people don't go beyond that. So I could see people getting that news, and not actually listening to what he said, or even listening to what he said and being repelled by it, because what he said back then is still pretty radical today, and seeing Malcolm as bad or evil. Granted it's a comic book so they are going to exaggerate. I'm not saying that Lee made Magneto, if he did, exactly like Malcolm, put perhaps Malcolm's call for self-determination sparked something creatively in Lee, or better yet the perceived anger and violence and hate associated with Malcolm sparked that creative impulse.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Redjack on February 23, 2015, 06:56:57 pm
Stan made up the XMEN because he couldn't think of any more good origins. Mutants remove the need for them.


Mutants were NOT, as Stan conceived them. numerous enough to be an underclass. The culture at large had little idea they even existed. Professor X was WORKING WITH THE FBI. Magneto was not a freedom fighter, He was a mass-murderer and would-be dictator. They were not old friends. None of that.


It simply did not happen. It's not up for debate. The whole "civil rights" crap didn't happen until WELL after Len Wein created the All new, All different X-Men. It was Claremont who injected it. Stan did NOT, I repeat, did NOT Start off trying to write a comic that even LOOSELY connected to the Civil Rights struggle. Never happened. The end.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on February 23, 2015, 07:01:12 pm
Even now how many people know what Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam actually promoted? To me, Malcolm has been seen as a 'hate preacher'. And a lot of people don't go beyond that. So I could see people getting that news, and not actually listening to what he said, or even listening to what he said and being repelled by it, because what he said back then is still pretty radical today, and seeing Malcolm as bad or evil. Granted it's a comic book so they are going to exaggerate. I'm not saying that Lee made Magneto, if he did, exactly like Malcolm, put perhaps Malcolm's call for self-determination sparked something creatively in Lee, or better yet the perceived anger and violence and hate associated with Malcolm sparked that creative impulse.


This is also very plausible.
I believe what was happening at that time (1960s) was the emergence and influence of modern Islam on America.
Observe how Islam touched people like Casious Clay or Mr. Little, instead of Christianity.  Observe  how Islam has such a strong influence on, not just young impressionable African-Americans, but White youths today. This is alarming to White folks who don't understand (nor want to) Muslims or Islamic culture because its not Christian.
My point is I believe people are all too aware of what the Nation of Islam promotes but are terrified of it, again, because it's different.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BlackRodimus on February 23, 2015, 07:02:20 pm
Even now how many people know what Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam actually promoted? To me, Malcolm has been seen as a 'hate preacher'. And a lot of people don't go beyond that. So I could see people getting that news, and not actually listening to what he said, or even listening to what he said and being repelled by it, because what he said back then is still pretty radical today, and seeing Malcolm as bad or evil. Granted it's a comic book so they are going to exaggerate. I'm not saying that Lee made Magneto, if he did, exactly like Malcolm, put perhaps Malcolm's call for self-determination sparked something creatively in Lee, or better yet the perceived anger and violence and hate associated with Malcolm sparked that creative impulse.

That's kinda what I was getting at. The only way that works is if they whittled MLK and MX down to harmless can't we all get along docile harmless negro (Prof. X) vs big scary negro who wants to take ovah!!!!1!!!1!! (Magneto) based on nothing but propaganda and fear of, well, karma, basically. Definitely very little of what either said, if that was taken into consideration at all anyway. That would require research and understanding why both men believed the way they did in the first place, the plight of black people back then. If Prof. X and Magneto is what they came up with, they didn't understand that at all and didn't even try.

So they MIIIIGGGHT want to back off that and attribute that to Claremont alone. Heck they'd get more traction saying they lifted it from the Wizard of Oz. That fits better
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on February 23, 2015, 07:16:08 pm
Even now how many people know what Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam actually promoted? To me, Malcolm has been seen as a 'hate preacher'. And a lot of people don't go beyond that. So I could see people getting that news, and not actually listening to what he said, or even listening to what he said and being repelled by it, because what he said back then is still pretty radical today, and seeing Malcolm as bad or evil. Granted it's a comic book so they are going to exaggerate. I'm not saying that Lee made Magneto, if he did, exactly like Malcolm, put perhaps Malcolm's call for self-determination sparked something creatively in Lee, or better yet the perceived anger and violence and hate associated with Malcolm sparked that creative impulse.

That's kinda what I was getting at. The only way that works is if they whittled MLK and MX down to harmless can't we all get along docile harmless negro (Prof. X) vs big scary negro who wants to take ovah!!!!1!!!1!! (Magneto) based on nothing but propaganda and fear of, well, karma, basically. Definitely very little of what either said, if that was taken into consideration at all anyway. That would require research and understanding why both men believed the way they did in the first place, the plight of black people back then. If Prof. X and Magneto is what they came up with, they didn't understand that at all and didn't even try.

So they MIIIIGGGHT want to back off that and attribute that to Claremont alone. Heck they'd get more traction saying they lifted it from the Wizard of Oz. That fits better



Hey, watchit sucka...!  :)

Wizard of Oz was a lot more metaphorical than you think.  ;D
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BlackRodimus on February 23, 2015, 08:47:15 pm
Even now how many people know what Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam actually promoted? To me, Malcolm has been seen as a 'hate preacher'. And a lot of people don't go beyond that. So I could see people getting that news, and not actually listening to what he said, or even listening to what he said and being repelled by it, because what he said back then is still pretty radical today, and seeing Malcolm as bad or evil. Granted it's a comic book so they are going to exaggerate. I'm not saying that Lee made Magneto, if he did, exactly like Malcolm, put perhaps Malcolm's call for self-determination sparked something creatively in Lee, or better yet the perceived anger and violence and hate associated with Malcolm sparked that creative impulse.

That's kinda what I was getting at. The only way that works is if they whittled MLK and MX down to harmless can't we all get along docile harmless negro (Prof. X) vs big scary negro who wants to take ovah!!!!1!!!1!! (Magneto) based on nothing but propaganda and fear of, well, karma, basically. Definitely very little of what either said, if that was taken into consideration at all anyway. That would require research and understanding why both men believed the way they did in the first place, the plight of black people back then. If Prof. X and Magneto is what they came up with, they didn't understand that at all and didn't even try.

So they MIIIIGGGHT want to back off that and attribute that to Claremont alone. Heck they'd get more traction saying they lifted it from the Wizard of Oz. That fits better



Hey, watchit sucka...!  :)

Wizard of Oz was a lot more metaphorical than you think.  ;D

Indeed, and its definitely not an insult if they lifted at least on the surface from the Wizard of Oz. Definitely not a veiled insult like it is saying they based Prof X and Mags on MLK and MX.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Redjack on February 23, 2015, 09:04:50 pm
I'm just gonna leave this here. You all can scroll down if you want.


http://www.cracked.com/article_17299_6-famous-characters-you-didnt-know-were-shameless-rip-offs.html (http://www.cracked.com/article_17299_6-famous-characters-you-didnt-know-were-shameless-rip-offs.html)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kimoyo on February 24, 2015, 07:02:45 am
"It's always better in memory."  "...The realities of the present materially affect the perceptions of all that came before."
- Chris Claremont

These words are from Claremont's introduction to the The Uncanny X-Men Masterworks collection.  Most telling I think in these and his further comments is the absence of any reference to the X-men as a metaphor to the Civil Rights Movement let alone, Dr. King or Malcom X.  In fact, Mr. Claremont's comments, like his X-men were virtually devoid of color.

1963, obviously the Civil Rights Movement was often front page news of which Stan and all of Marvel were undoubtedly aware.  Yet, understanding now the importance of that time and the efforts of MLK and MX it is understandable that some might retrospectively associate them to Stan's "X" inspiration.  However, if you consider the uncertainty of things at that time, the stories of MLK and MX were not yet written and Stan was engaged in building Marvel, creating more characters and stories to sell to a predominantly white audience, it is hard to believe that the allegory between the Movement and the X-men (and there is an allegory) was much more than a coincidence, perhaps marginally inspired by the times in general but more likely inspired by the creators own cultural experiences and concerns.

Nonetheless, I believe there could be a value in the allegory.  I once had a freshman course where I presented a case against Institutional racism and I had a colleague of mine come in to present statistics and data from his research to the class.  The white males in the class could not accept the data on employment, education and real estate inequity and were very critical of my colleague's take whereas the black males and all the females were much more receptive.  My colleague who is brilliant also happens to be white yet the white freshman males could not relate to the real life story he was telling.  To them our society was now a level playing field for all.  From their frame of reference cries of racial bias were more or less sour grapes. 

I don't know if any of these students read X-men so I can't present any quantitative conclusion here but I do believe that comics as a medium can help expose people to ideas that may sensitize them, consciously/subconsciously to the struggles of those from other cultures, backgrounds, orientations.  As Redjack astutely noted you cannot substitute Professor X for Dr. King nor Magneto for Malcom X, but if drawing comparisons causes people to look up, read about, educate themselves on real life stories of struggle or even fosters a greater appreciation of individual differences, therein is value.

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on February 24, 2015, 08:05:14 am
"It's always better in memory."  "...The realities of the present materially affect the perceptions of all that came before."
- Chris Claremont

These words are from Claremont's introduction to the The Uncanny X-Men Masterworks collection.  Most telling I think in these and his further comments is the absence of any reference to the X-men as a metaphor to the Civil Rights Movement let alone, Dr. King or Malcom X.  In fact, Mr. Claremont's comments, like his X-men were virtually devoid of color.

1963, obviously the Civil Rights Movement was often front page news of which Stan and all of Marvel were undoubtedly aware.  Yet, understanding now the importance of that time and the efforts of MLK and MX it is understandable that some might retrospectively associate them to Stan's "X" inspiration.  However, if you consider the uncertainty of things at that time, the stories of MLK and MX were not yet written and Stan was engaged in building Marvel, creating more characters and stories to sell to a predominantly white audience, it is hard to believe that the allegory between the Movement and the X-men (and there is an allegory) was much more than a coincidence, perhaps marginally inspired by the times in general but more likely inspired by the creators own cultural experiences and concerns.

Nonetheless, I believe there could be a value in the allegory.  I once had a freshman course where I presented a case against Institutional racism and I had a colleague of mine come in to present statistics and data from his research to the class.  The white males in the class could not accept the data on employment, education and real estate inequity and were very critical of my colleague's take whereas the black males and all the females were much more receptive.  My colleague who is brilliant also happens to be white yet the white freshman males could not relate to the real life story he was telling.  To them our society was now a level playing field for all.  From their frame of reference cries of racial bias were more or less sour grapes. 

I don't know if any of these students read X-men so I can't present any quantitative conclusion here but I do believe that comics as a medium can help expose people to ideas that may sensitize them, consciously/subconsciously to the struggles of those from other cultures, backgrounds, orientations.  As Redjack astutely noted you cannot substitute Professor X for Dr. King nor Magneto for Malcom X, but if drawing comparisons causes people to look up, read about, educate themselves on real life stories of struggle or even fosters a greater appreciation of individual differences, therein is value.

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont



Nice.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kimoyo on February 24, 2015, 06:18:51 pm
Thanks Battle!

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BlackRodimus on March 10, 2015, 12:08:41 am
So to put it bluntly and bring it back to the original topic, Stan is full of it when he says he ALWAYS envisioned the X-Men as an allegory for the civil rights movement vis a vis MLK and MX. No long paragraphs saying "well beyond that it retrofits well" none of that, I'm not a fan of Stan getting credit like that. I like him, as much as you can like a person you've never met, but that's pushing it. Give credit where credit is due and take credit for what you actually credited. That wasn't Stan's original idea, not even close.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: stanleyballard on March 17, 2015, 02:20:49 pm
Claremont is the one who made race a metaphor in the Xmen....the best story would be "God Loves, Man Kills" the graphic novel where the word "nigger" was openly used.  Also, Claremont wanted Storm to be the most powerful XMan and to lead - and during the Dark Phoenix story he commented she was equally powerful but took time to build up to Phoenix level. 

Have to give him credit for creating the most diverse group of X Men ever during the Xtreme Xmen series.  Claremont was the young guy in the mid 70s who connected the Xmen to Dr King and Malcolm X - he took the title when no one wanted it and he was fresh out of college and full of ideas.  He changed Magneto to make him more compelling and diverse and retconned a friendship between him and Professor X.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on March 17, 2015, 03:58:36 pm
Magneto seems more like Rabbi Meir Kahane, founder of the Jewish Defense League (named a terrorist organization by The FBI), whose activities were aimed at self-defense of the Jewish community in Brooklyn and harassment of Soviet activities in New York as a protest against the treatment of Jews in Russia. Kahane saw many of the poor and elderly Jews living in the inner-city being targeted by criminals; as a result, he set out to change the image of the Jew from "weak and vulnerable" to one of a "mighty fighter, who strikes back fiercely against tyrants." The JDL's controversial methods greatly exacerbated the Black-Jewish tension already present in New York City. The JDL also coined the phrases "Never again," and "every Jew a .22" to emphasize that Jews would no longer passively ignore the plight of their foreign brethren.
(http://www.thejc.com/files/imagecache/body_landscape/rabbi-kahane.jpg)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on March 23, 2015, 10:44:52 pm
Magneto seems more like Rabbi Meir Kahane, founder of the Jewish Defense League (named a terrorist organization by The FBI), whose activities were aimed at self-defense of the Jewish community in Brooklyn and harassment of Soviet activities in New York as a protest against the treatment of Jews in Russia. Kahane saw many of the poor and elderly Jews living in the inner-city being targeted by criminals; as a result, he set out to change the image of the Jew from "weak and vulnerable" to one of a "mighty fighter, who strikes back fiercely against tyrants." The JDL's controversial methods greatly exacerbated the Black-Jewish tension already present in New York City. The JDL also coined the phrases "Never again," and "every Jew a .22" to emphasize that Jews would no longer passively ignore the plight of their foreign brethren.
([url]http://www.thejc.com/files/imagecache/body_landscape/rabbi-kahane.jpg[/url])
Really good call on the Kahane reference.  Been loving the Magneto series btw. 

It would be interesting to see a story arc or a series about racial dynamics within the mutant community.  The same way there are particular racial dynamics within the gay community, for example.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on March 26, 2015, 04:54:28 am
It would be interesting to see a story arc or a series about racial dynamics within the mutant community.  The same way there are particular racial dynamics within the gay community, for example.

Yes, it would. You don't see too many(if any) comics addressing Racial issues of the day the way they did in the past. For example, the old romance comics from the late 1960's-mid 1970's touched on social commentary(especially in regards to Race) quite often. I suppose with the suspension of disbelief aspect of Superhero comics, the idea that a "Hero" has no skin color bias is acceptable. Maybe a "Mutant Romance" book is in order  :)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on March 26, 2015, 03:29:31 pm
It would be interesting to see a story arc or a series about racial dynamics within the mutant community.  The same way there are particular racial dynamics within the gay community, for example.

Yes, it would. You don't see too many(if any) comics addressing Racial issues of the day the way they did in the past. For example, the old romance comics from the late 1960's-mid 1970's touched on social commentary(especially in regards to Race) quite often. I suppose with the suspension of disbelief aspect of Superhero comics, the idea that a "Hero" has no skin color bias is acceptable. Maybe a "Mutant Romance" book is in order  :)




Y'mean, something similar to T'Challa romancing Ororo? :)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on March 27, 2015, 05:34:04 am
Maybe "Black X-Men" would have looked something like this?
(http://www.comicbooked.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Harbinger-1.jpg)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on March 27, 2015, 05:42:51 am
(Orthodo)X-Men, On Screen and Off
By Irving Greenberg

In our May 23 issue, Ami Eden argued that the opposing forces in the blockbuster film, “X2: X-Men United,” could be interpreted as metaphor for two radical theological responses to the Holocaust — one belonging to Rabbi Irving “Yitz” Greenberg, the other to the late Rabbi Meir Kahane. The good-guy mutants, Eden noted, are led by the wheelchair-bound Professor X (played by Patrick Stewart), a powerful psychic with an ideological — and physical — resemblance to Greenberg. Professor X remains dedicated to coexistence between mutants and non-mutants, while his nemesis and lifelong friend Erik Magnus Lehnsherr, aka Magneto (Ian McKellen), is convinced that a war between the two groups is inevitable. Apparently, the analogy was closer than we thought.

Ami Eden’s article was creative, insightful, clever and funny. I enjoyed and agreed with it even before he made me as handsome as Patrick Stewart. Readers might be interested to learn that the article cut much closer to the bone than even Eden may have realized.
Like Professor X and Magneto, Meir Kahane and I started out as good friends. During our high school years we were classmates and joint performers in weekly skits that we often wrote together. We both sensed that Jewish history was undergoing one of its great transformations (although, I confess, I do not remember if we both had zeroed in on the significance of the Holocaust as fully as we were to do later). We debated frequently, often over the use of force by the Jewish underground in Palestine during the 1940s.

Even then, Kahane’s most striking characteristics were strongly apparent. As early as his teen years, he displayed a preference for extreme and “pure” solutions. He always had a strong ability to reach audiences and touch people, but he was overly influenced by their reactions, becoming more extreme in order to elicit an even more enthusiastic response.

Kahane always displayed a quick mind and nimble tongue, but lacked what in Yiddish we call sitzfleisch, namely, patient attention to detail to back up his words. In school, he cut corners on his homework; later on, he had no penchant for the detailed, laborious organizing necessary for success in organizational life. This explains why although he received a great deal of worldwide media attention — which he could have utilized to create the most powerful mass movement or organization in Jewish life — he piddled his public-relations gains away. When Kahane was killed in 1990, he left behind the Jewish Defense League and the Israeli Kach Party, two organizations that had been the recipients of major news coverage, but lacked a stable residue of power or effectiveness.

Decades before his death, in college, our contacts first began to wane. I left to pursue a PhD in American history at Harvard, and he to pursue a somewhat-mysterious exploration of the CIA and the fringes of American politics. But catalyzed by our powerful encounters with the Holocaust, we both moved back to callings that were more Jewish and we each developed what would become opposing philosophies in reaction to the tragedy.

(Eden wrote, “Greenberg argued that the Holocaust represented an abrogation of the divine covenant with the Jewish people.” I actually argued that the authority of the covenant was broken but the Jewish people, released from its obligations, chose voluntarily to take it on again.)
Our paths converged again during the Soviet Jewry movement in the late 1960s. We were both highly critical of the Jewish establishment for its complacency regarding the plight of Soviet Jews denied the right to emigrate. However, I was involved with Jacob Birnbaum and the Student Struggle for Soviet Jewry. The young activists who did the hard work of organizing demonstrations and educating the public were angered that Kahane often snatched up the media attention by resorting to violence in ways which many felt undercut the moral standing of the movement. Kahane would come to rallies and grab the spotlight or the microphone, attracting media attention with calls for more extreme policies. But I believed that multiple tactics had a certain value, and Kahane and I renewed our old debates when he came to speak at a men’s club breakfast at Riverdale Jewish Center, where I served as rabbi.

The alienation between us began to grow, however, as his policies became more extreme. In 1972, when I was teaching at City College of New York, one of my students was arrested by the FBI for placing a bomb in mega-entertainment agent Sol Hurok’s office, to punish Hurok for sponsoring a Soviet artist’s concert tour in America. The bomb killed a secretary. In my conversations with the student he made clear that he believed he had acted under the inspiration of Meir Kahane and even hinted that my old friend had encouraged the bombing, though the FBI never proved anything. When, during an encounter with Kahane, I accused him of possible responsibility for the secretary’s death, he argued that “never again” meant “never again at all costs” — including the use of force and violence.

We met again years later, for yet another debate. Kahane had made inroads, particularly in the Yeshiva University student community, by cloaking his proposals for elimination of the Arabs with rabbinic sources. Rabbi Avi Weiss, who was a friend of both of ours, came to me and asked if I would debate Kahane. I felt that his ideology and incorrect use of rabbinic sources needed to be challenged — he was a bad influence on Y.U. students. So I agreed to debate him at the Hebrew Institute of Riverdale, the synagogue headed by Weiss.
The week before the debate, an interview with Kahane appeared in the Baltimore Jewish Times. The report was horrific. He called for the transfer of the Arab population of the West Bank. As I recall it, he spoke of bringing trucks and rounding up the population — men, women and children — and depositing them in Jordan. When asked by the reporter what would happen if they refused to go, Kahane replied: We will shoot them if they resist.

On the night of the debate, I opened by reading back to him his horrible words, adding that I hoped they were journalistic misrepresentations. He responded almost mockingly that he stood behind the words, and that only bleeding heart liberals would object. As he spoke, his young, emotionally childish supporters cheered and applauded wildly, arousing him to further excess.

Shocked and appalled, I reminded him that these words read like a script out of the Holocaust. He topped off with an invocation of his version of Jewish power in the light of the Holocaust to frenzied cheers from his claque. As I said at the time, I wanted to tear my clothes, like a mourner, upon hearing such an immoral, evil policy offered by a Jewish leader in the name of the Holocaust.

After the debate, I pledged never to appear with him again. The friendship was broken.

When I heard the news of Kahane’s assassination in 1990, I felt a deep pang — sorrow for his family, regret for the moral distortion and waste of his talents, and pain that a Muslim extremist had successfully committed the murder. I was upset and chagrined that the assassin, El-Sayyid Nosair, escaped the punishment he deserved and was troubled by the FBI’s poor handling of the case. Later I was stunned to learn of Nosair’s connection to Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman and the realization that the FBI had botched uncovering this terrorist cell years before it struck at the World Trade Center in 1993.

As I brooded over Kahane’s death years later, it dawned upon me that the Jewish Defense League founder had repeated the disabling error that he had committed often in his career. Confusing words with reality, as if brilliant or biting slogans turn into facts by themselves, he spoke hard, provocative and powerful words against Arabs — but organized no force or power behind his pronouncements.

At the same time that he was provoking anger and drawing the attention of Muslim extremists, he confused his own macho words with reality; he never developed the kind of security network that he needed for his protection. Certainly, his failures were not a capital crime and his assassination was a totally unjustified terrorist action. But the ending made his life and his death all the more heartbreaking.

Kahane tapped into the great truth of needing to learn from the Holocaust the lessons of Jewish particularism, self-interest and Jewish power. By pushing his insights far beyond their proper limits and by dismissing the dialectical truths of universalism, moral responsibility to the other and self-restraint, Kahane twisted the Holocaust into a force for abusing others. He underestimated the capacity of the Jewish people to endure frustration and suffering without losing its moral compass and its ability to persist with firm hope until it wins a true peace. This ethical steadfastness is apparent after 55 years of Israel living with intransigent Arab hostility.

Rabbi Irving Greenberg is president of the Jewish Life Network/Steinhardt Foundation.


Read more: http://forward.com/articles/7470/orthodo-x-men-on-screen-and-off/#ixzz3Vaa6SVI2 (http://forward.com/articles/7470/orthodo-x-men-on-screen-and-off/#ixzz3Vaa6SVI2)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BmoreAkuma on March 27, 2015, 07:09:01 am
Sighes a thread like just had to come out like this eventually didn't it? So many kneegrows are so quick to accept this. It is bullsh*t, silly and damn near pathetic. I agree with the assessment that it is an insult to both of the men. I do know that folks had their “opinions” of Malcolm X talking about how “evil” he supposedly was. Hell this country still act like they don’t want to give credit where credit to due for the civil rights movement. It is pretty much MLK only. Never mind that MLK was talking “pro-black” just as much as Malcolm but nah no one ever want to bring it up. Always so quick to bring up his “I have a dream” speech but don’t bring up the letter he written while he was in jail referencing “white moderates”. Now since some of you “feel as though this is true”, do you feel the same “correlation” of sentinels = burning crosses?

I won’t ASSume that folks didn't read the autobiography of Malcolm X, but there is no way if a person whom happens to be “comic nerd”; can sit down and read that book to even get a hint of “he comes off like magneto”.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Redjack on March 28, 2015, 09:17:41 am
you can assume that the most most black people know about Malcolm is a poster with him holding a gun. you can assume most white people know less.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on March 28, 2015, 09:27:34 am
I won’t ASSume that folks didn't read the autobiography of Malcolm X, but there is no way if a person whom happens to be “comic nerd” can sit down and read that book to even get a hint of “he comes off like magneto”.



Readers are speculating that the comicbook character metaphor is the other way around.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: BmoreAkuma on March 30, 2015, 09:27:17 am
Readers are speculating that the comicbook character metaphor is the other way around.
So? The metaphor is still wrong
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on March 30, 2015, 11:03:39 am
Readers are speculating that the comicbook character metaphor is the other way around.
So? The metaphor is still wrong


The metaphor may very well be wrong from your point-of-view, however, there are those that believe otherwise.

I'm not one of them but I do find the comparison... interesting.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on March 30, 2015, 03:14:08 pm
Readers are speculating that the comicbook character metaphor is the other way around.
So? The metaphor is still wrong


The metaphor may very well be wrong from your point-of-view, however, there are those that believe otherwise.

I'm not one of them but I do find the comparison... interesting.

With all due respect, I find the comparison repulsive.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on March 30, 2015, 05:19:29 pm
Readers are speculating that the comicbook character metaphor is the other way around.
So? The metaphor is still wrong


The metaphor may very well be wrong from your point-of-view, however, there are those that believe otherwise.

I'm not one of them but I do find the comparison... interesting.

With all due respect, I find the comparison repulsive.



Yeah...
I believe that's a much more accurate word to describe it.

The first time I heard it, came from a creepy white guy in South Carolina many years ago.
So, yeah... considering the source...
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: JRCarter on April 04, 2015, 11:31:29 am
My brother and I actually used to discuss this. The usual "Xavier's MLK, Magneto's Malcolm" thing. Once, I asked, "Who's Sabretooth?" He said, "Colin Ferguson." He was joking.
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kimoyo on April 16, 2015, 06:05:55 pm
Maybe "Black X-Men" would have looked something like this?
([url]http://www.comicbooked.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Harbinger-1.jpg[/url])


Kristopher, what is this from?

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Battle on April 17, 2015, 10:27:11 am

Kristopher, what is this from?

Peace,

Mont


Its a gorgeous scene, isn't it?

Back in th' day, this is how MARVEL used to fill up a page!
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on April 17, 2015, 11:46:22 am
Maybe "Black X-Men" would have looked something like this?
([url]http://www.comicbooked.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Harbinger-1.jpg[/url])


Kristopher, what is this from?

Peace,

Mont


Harbinger #13, written by Joshua Dysart with art by Khari Evans and Trevor Hairsine
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kristopher on April 17, 2015, 11:55:57 am

Kristopher, what is this from?

Peace,

Mont



Its a gorgeous scene, isn't it?

Back in th' day, this is how MARVEL used to fill up a page!


Yup! it's a really great scene that speaks volumes!!! Valiant is doing some of the best comics out there now. I especially love how they're handling "Livewire". She has rapidly moved up on my list of favorite Black female comic characters. She's now Number 3, right behind Vixen and Michonne. :)
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11/117930/3845674-livewire.jpg)
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Kimoyo on April 18, 2015, 05:00:35 pm
Thanks, looks like I'll be on a back issue hunt!

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Blanks on April 22, 2015, 05:47:32 pm
Damn! Back issues, here I come!
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: stanleyballard on May 21, 2015, 04:46:46 pm
Looks good....will seek the issue out....have been out of the Marvel buying mode.  Comics seem to be lacking something....
Title: Re: X-BlackMen
Post by: Emperorjones on May 25, 2015, 09:02:26 am
I want to co-sign Kristopher on Unity. I'm enjoying that book. I also like Livewire. I don't know if I would rate her as highly as Kristopher does, but I do enjoy her. It would be cool to get a Livewire miniseries, I doubt they would give her a full series. I recommend you check out some Valiant books especially if you're burned out on Marvel and DC.