Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Panther Politics => Topic started by: Yaw on January 17, 2007, 11:04:35 pm

Title: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 17, 2007, 11:04:35 pm
The Kitty Pryde Syndrome

Name origin::A young Kitty Pryde became emotionally distraught when her surrogate mother, Storm changed her look.

(http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3383/kittysyndv4.th.jpg) (http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kittysyndv4.jpg)


Diagnostic Criteria: (At least three characteristics must be present to suggest one suffers from KPS.)

1. Negative reaction to Storm's marriage to Black Panther for the simple fact that they are married.
2. Claims of mischaracterization without proper factual comic evidence.
3. Hatred of Black Panther (the character) despite never having read anything about the character.
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)
7. Idealization of Storm's personality and negation of human frailty and variance. (Ie.  Belief that she is a goddess and therefore would not succumb to reactions that other women may experience.)

Treatment:

1. Expanding one's view of Storm based on her entire 616 history.
2. Ending one's false idealization of the character.
3. Reading Black Panther's seminal history.
4. Reading Black Panther's current run.
5. Studying womanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism) especially the works of bell hooks and Alice Walker.
6. Studying human development and psychological growth.
7. If all else fails, suicide.

Commonly affected populations:

Storm fans in general are the most affected by this syndrome.  White women are found to be the highest sample within the Storm fan population affected by this syndrome followed by women of other races.  White feminists show to be highly linked to exhibiting KPS symptoms as well but the information is inconclusive.  Currently the information shows that some KPS symptoms are correlated to the female empowerment idealization of the fictional character Storm.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 18, 2007, 04:18:53 am
WTF? Why are you dragging my darling, Kitty, into this? She was happy for her!
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 18, 2007, 05:05:59 am
(eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)

WHOA now. Storm has made some mistakes in leadership, same as the rest of them (some merely a bad result of piss poor writing). But if you put it on a ratio of mistakes made over time served as leader, her errors have been pretty few and far between.

And yeah, seeing that Kitty was the main one who was happy with Storm (and admonished the others for being less than), we're going to need a new name for this extremely real syndrome.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 07:40:02 am
(eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)

WHOA now. Storm has made some mistakes in leadership, same as the rest of them (some merely a bad result of piss poor writing). But if you put it on a ratio of mistakes made over time served as leader, her errors have been pretty few and far between.

And yeah, seeing that Kitty was the main one who was happy with Storm (and admonished the others for being less than), we're going to need a new name for this extremely real syndrome.

As a squad leader for field missions, Storm wins.

Leading a commiunity in LIFE, naw she fails.

Under Storm

1. Morlocks were wiped out.
2. Gene Nation was attacked with no defenses.
3. Gene Nation was given very little overall supervision.
3. Gene Nation in Sudan village went extinct?


Big difference on leading a field mission and leading a nation.


As far as Kitty goes, I'n not talking about her reluctance to change when she married.  I'm referring to her reaction as a child when Storm made her change.  As a child she reacted negatively because Storm didn't fit her model of perfection anymore. Thus her idealized mother image of Storm was shattered.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Ammar on January 18, 2007, 10:00:10 am
So...she got mad because Ororo changed her look?




Eh....?
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 10:18:18 am
WTF? Why are you dragging my darling, Kitty, into this? She was happy for her!

has nothing to do with it.

The point: A young naive, selfish little girl who had idealized Storm to replace values and structure that she (Kitty) did not have in her own life, became unjustifiably upset when seeing Storm make a personal change.

A grown up Kitty being all for Storm getting married has nothing to do with this.  Do you see a pic of a grownup Kitty anywhere?
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 10:21:40 am
So...she got mad because Ororo changed her look?




Eh....?

YES

It was because Kitty was experiencing a divorce between her parents and Storm had become her surrogate mother.  Seeing Storm make this change she unjustifiably became upset with Storm and projected her own insecurities on Storm.  Storm making such a change broke the idealized version she had of Storm who at the time was her "mother."  It's not unlike how current fans idealize Storm as a "goddess" and hate to see her human frailty.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 18, 2007, 10:25:44 am
dayam... Yaw went deep on y'all.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 18, 2007, 11:57:44 am

Under Storm

1. Morlocks were wiped out.
2. Gene Nation was attacked with no defenses.
3. Gene Nation was given very little overall supervision.
3. Gene Nation in Sudan village went extinct?


Big difference on leading a field mission and leading a nation.

And there's also a big difference between making a sh*tload of mistakes, and making one big-ass mistake that has multiple repercussions, such as the Gene Nation debacle.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 18, 2007, 12:10:51 pm
The Kitty Pryde Syndrome

Name origin::A young Kitty Pryde became emotionally distraught when her surrogate mother, Storm changed her look.

([url]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3383/kittysyndv4.th.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kittysyndv4.jpg[/url])


Diagnostic Criteria: (At least three characteristics must be present to suggest one suffers from KPS.)

1. Negative reaction to Storm's marriage to Black Panther for the simple fact that they are married.
2. Claims of mischaracterization without proper factual comic evidence.
3. Hatred of Black Panther (the character) despite never having read anything about the character.
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)
7. Idealization of Storm's personality and negation of human frailty and variance. (Ie.  Belief that she is a goddess and therefore would not succumb to reactions that other women may experience.)

Treatment:

1. Expanding one's view of Storm based on her entire 616 history.
2. Ending one's false idealization of the character.
3. Reading Black Panther's seminal history.
4. Reading Black Panther's current run.
5. Studying womanism ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism[/url]) especially the works of bell hooks and Alice Walker.
6. Studying human development and psychological growth.
7. If all else fails, suicide.

Commonly affected populations:

Storm fans in general are the most affected by this syndrome.  White women are found to be the highest sample within the Storm fan population affected by this syndrome followed by women of other races.  White feminists show to be highly linked to exhibiting KPS symptoms as well but the information is inconclusive.  Currently the information shows that some KPS symptoms are correlated to the female empowerment idealization of the fictional character Storm.


If you feel you are suffering from this illness please see your LCS. Recommended vaccinations include Type-MacGregor,Type-Priest or Type-Hudlin. Side effects may include: shock, humility, disappointment, discontentment, bloating, vomiting and/or rage depending on degree of acceptance. If these inoculations do not help your condition, please  seek psychiatric assistance immediately!


This message brought to you by the Department of Sane and Logical Debaters of HEF.  ;D
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: JLI Jesse on January 18, 2007, 12:18:04 pm
I think it was during a rough time in her life, when her parents were getting divorced and and she was in danger of being killed every other issue, Storm was the one constant in her life.  When Storm made this drastic change, the 13 year old girl's emotions all came out.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: bluezulu on January 18, 2007, 03:39:00 pm
I see what you are getting at YAW. I actually thought it was pretty creative.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 05:12:34 pm

Under Storm

1. Morlocks were wiped out.
2. Gene Nation was attacked with no defenses.
3. Gene Nation was given very little overall supervision.
3. Gene Nation in Sudan village went extinct?


Big difference on leading a field mission and leading a nation.

And there's also a big difference between making a sh*tload of mistakes, and making one big-ass mistake that has multiple repercussions, such as the Gene Nation debacle.

There was more than one mistake.  THe one thing they had in common was her inattentiveness.  Storm has shown herself not able to handle the duties of leading a nation as well as be and active member and leader of an assault force.

Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa.  For better or worse this is Storm's M.O.  She can lead the hell out of a squad team with specific missions but she has been shown inaffective at leading a group of people in anything other than that.  The point of my argument is to think that STorm would be a good leader of Wakanda at this point in her life is to negate all of her previous history let alone the adjustment period she would obviously need in learning about Wakanda.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 05:13:15 pm
The Kitty Pryde Syndrome

Name origin::A young Kitty Pryde became emotionally distraught when her surrogate mother, Storm changed her look.

([url]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3383/kittysyndv4.th.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kittysyndv4.jpg[/url])


Diagnostic Criteria: (At least three characteristics must be present to suggest one suffers from KPS.)

1. Negative reaction to Storm's marriage to Black Panther for the simple fact that they are married.
2. Claims of mischaracterization without proper factual comic evidence.
3. Hatred of Black Panther (the character) despite never having read anything about the character.
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)
7. Idealization of Storm's personality and negation of human frailty and variance. (Ie.  Belief that she is a goddess and therefore would not succumb to reactions that other women may experience.)

Treatment:

1. Expanding one's view of Storm based on her entire 616 history.
2. Ending one's false idealization of the character.
3. Reading Black Panther's seminal history.
4. Reading Black Panther's current run.
5. Studying womanism ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Womanism[/url]) especially the works of bell hooks and Alice Walker.
6. Studying human development and psychological growth.
7. If all else fails, suicide.

Commonly affected populations:

Storm fans in general are the most affected by this syndrome.  White women are found to be the highest sample within the Storm fan population affected by this syndrome followed by women of other races.  White feminists show to be highly linked to exhibiting KPS symptoms as well but the information is inconclusive.  Currently the information shows that some KPS symptoms are correlated to the female empowerment idealization of the fictional character Storm.


If you feel you are suffering from this illness please see your LCS. Recommended vaccinations include Type-MacGregor,Type-Priest or Type-Hudlin. Side effects may include: shock, humility, disappointment, discontentment, bloating, vomiting and/or rage depending on degree of acceptance. If these inoculations do not help you condition, please  seek psychiatric assistance immediately!


This message brought to you by the Department of Sane and Logical Debaters of HEF.  ;D



LOL
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: stanleyballard on January 18, 2007, 06:22:57 pm
"Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa."

@ Yaw....technically she told Cyclops that she wanted her team sent to her in Africa (where they needed the XMen to defend victims of the HOM debacle) and he overrode her request because he wanted everyone at the mansion to show some type of solidarity and he requested that she return asap.  She is not a teacher/advisor as Emma/White Queen is...and she does not have the credentials to do it.  The White Queen (despite her many imperfections) has been a teacher/advisor before as has Professor X.  Storm turned her position as leader of a squad of XMen (until the HOM debacle) over to Bishop when she left (which included Nightcrawler, Psylocke, Cannonball and Rachel/Marvel Girl/Phoenix).
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 18, 2007, 06:52:10 pm
"Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa."

@ Yaw....technically she told Cyclops that she wanted her team sent to her in Africa (where they needed the XMen to defend victims of the HOM debacle) and he overrode her request because he wanted everyone at the mansion to show some type of solidarity and he requested that she return asap.  She is not a teacher/advisor as Emma/White Queen is...and she does not have the credentials to do it.  The White Queen (despite her many imperfections) has been a teacher/advisor before as has Professor X.  Storm turned her position as leader of a squad of XMen (until the HOM debacle) over to Bishop when she left (which included Nightcrawler, Psylocke, Cannonball and Rachel/Marvel Girl/Phoenix).

I think you are mistaking an X-team for her actual "team of students."  I was specifically talking about the team that she has in NEw X-Men.  Granted it is something that Kyle and Yost made up but nonetheless it is still valid.  Her team as of now only has been shown to be the Wakandan mutant Nezhno.  He was one of her students and somethign that needs to be addressed.  I don't like loose ends.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 18, 2007, 09:55:02 pm
Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa.  For better or worse this is Storm's M.O.  She can lead the hell out of a squad team with specific missions but she has been shown inaffective at leading a group of people in anything other than that. 

For 12 years? Bullsh*t. She stuck with the X-Men even without her powers, for crying out loud. If she's ineffective at leading a group of people in anything other than combat, it's because she's never DONE any other kind of leadership, save for her stint as a goddess (which I'm fairly sure had lots of leadership opportunities). Furthermore, how did she "abandon" the X-Men? She left. She quit. That was her right to do so. She didn't leave them in the middle of a war, or when they needed her most. She didn't steal all the school's money and take off. She simply decided it was time to move on - and so far, I don't see the X-Men suffering from anything in her absence except for common sense.

Quote
The point of my argument is to think that STorm would be a good leader of Wakanda at this point in her life is to negate all of her previous history let alone the adjustment period she would obviously need in learning about Wakanda.

I never said Storm would be a good leader right this moment. In fact, I've made numerous posts stating that Storm is doing the right thing in hanging back and silently observing what the others do. I said myself it would probably be at least a year before she steps into her role.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 19, 2007, 12:13:26 am
For 12 years? Bullsh*t. She stuck with the X-Men even without her powers, for crying out loud.


Irrelevant.  You don't need superpowers to rule a nation (see T'challa).
Quote
If she's ineffective at leading a group of people in anything other than combat, it's because she's never DONE any other kind of leadership, save for her stint as a goddess (which I'm fairly sure had lots of leadership opportunities).


Untrue.  That has been my point the entire time.  She HAS led outside of combat and she has failed:

Here she broods over her failures concerning the Morlocks:
Storm  #1 (1997 mini)
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/4610/hr07qb4.th.jpg) (http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hr07qb4.jpg)


She orders the new group to go to a village in the Sudan:
Storm #4
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5439/hr19pt2.th.jpg) (http://img442.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hr19pt2.jpg)

Uncanny Annual 97
The emergent leader of the Gene Nation, D'Gard, schools Storm on her abandonment of the group and subsequent poor leadership:
(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1093/annuncxmenv19709rougherzp0.th.jpg) (http://img440.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annuncxmenv19709rougherzp0.jpg)

D'Gard assumes leadership in a verbal coup of the group since Storm has proved inadequate
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6277/annuncxmenv19735rougheryb4.th.jpg) (http://img264.imageshack.us/my.php?image=annuncxmenv19735rougheryb4.jpg)



The point is that STorm can lead the hell out of a team with the mission of saving the world from alien invaders but when it comes to leading a community with domestic issues, she fails.  Those simply require different kinds of leadership.  Every Mayor of a city wouldn't necessarily make a good STormin Norman on the battlefield and vice versa.
Quote
Furthermore, how did she "abandon" the X-Men? She left. She quit. That was her right to do so. She didn't leave them in the middle of a war, or when they needed her most. She didn't steal all the school's money and take off. She simply decided it was time to move on - and so far, I don't see the X-Men suffering from anything in her absence except for common sense.


I said "team of students."  I'm talking about the supposed students she served as advisor to while she lived at the X-mansion.  In her credit they (really "him") were only made up as a plot device in the New X-men v2 series post House of M when the X-Men Evolution creators took over writing duties.  You can blame Kyle and Yost for suggesting that Storm had a team of students at the mansion while she was absent from the mansion for most of the original run with the former writers.  In fact the only student mentioned is Nezhno the Wakandan mutant (who was shown going to her wedding).  We don't even know who the rest of her students were.  Thus this issue can be looked over but it is still a loose end that needs tying.  I mean basically you have 2 years of New X-MEn issues with no mentioning of her having a team while she is doing X.S.E. stuff then going to AFrica then long after she gets married, new writers interject "Hey what about the students you were advising these past years that were never mentioned until now?"

Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 19, 2007, 06:21:37 am
Dude, the Morlocks and the Sudan were the same damn f*ck-up. The Morlock Massacre was the f*ckup that kept on giving, like a rolling tire or herpes. I will say that I don't remember much about the Sudan crisis,  but that's just because the storyline was so damn stupd.

And anyone can "assume" leadership in a crisis. It's called a coup de taut...and it rarely works. Great at instigating sh*t and causing dissension in the ranks, bad at actually accomplishing anything.

Like I said, Storm knows she meeds to lean back until she's ready...and that's what she's doing.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 19, 2007, 07:23:51 am
WTF? Why are you dragging my darling, Kitty, into this? She was happy for her!

has nothing to do with it.

The point: A young naive, selfish little girl who had idealized Storm to replace values and structure that she (Kitty) did not have in her own life, became unjustifiably upset when seeing Storm make a personal change.

A grown up Kitty being all for Storm getting married has nothing to do with this.  Do you see a pic of a grownup Kitty anywhere?

Hell yeah it has a lot to do with this. You're using her name for a syndrome that has these symptoms:

1. Negative reaction to Storm's marriage to Black Panther for the simple fact that they are married.
Kitty doesn't reject the marriage.
2. Claims of mischaracterization without proper factual comic evidence.
Hasn't been talking behind Storm's or T'Challa's back.
3. Hatred of Black Panther (the character) despite never having read anything about the character.
She's said nothing about him.
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
N/A
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
She's said nothing so far.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)  
N/A, not unless you include fan fiction.
7. Idealization of Storm's personality and negation of human frailty and variance. (Ie.  Belief that she is a goddess and therefore would not succumb to reactions that other women may experience.)
She's said nothing related to that.

You're using Kitty's name in reference to an past point of her development.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 19, 2007, 07:30:30 am
There was more than one mistake.  THe one thing they had in common was her inattentiveness.  Storm has shown herself not able to handle the duties of leading a nation as well as be and active member and leader of an assault force.

Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa.  For better or worse this is Storm's M.O.  She can lead the hell out of a squad team with specific missions but she has been shown inaffective at leading a group of people in anything other than that.  The point of my argument is to think that STorm would be a good leader of Wakanda at this point in her life is to negate all of her previous history let alone the adjustment period she would obviously need in learning about Wakanda.

The only time that affected Kitty was after the "Fall of the Mutants". Kitty stayed in England and cofounded Excalibur, but Storm never told them they were still alive after Dallas. Although that pain hasn't been re-addressed, it's the only leadership decision that left Kitty abandoned by Storm.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 19, 2007, 07:42:30 am
Dude, the Morlocks and the Sudan were the same damn f*ck-up. The Morlock Massacre was the f*ckup that kept on giving, like a rolling tire or herpes. I will say that I don't remember much about the Sudan crisis,  but that's just because the storyline was so damn stupd.

And anyone can "assume" leadership in a crisis. It's called a coup de taut...and it rarely works. Great at instigating sh*t and causing dissension in the ranks, bad at actually accomplishing anything.

Like I said, Storm knows she meeds to lean back until she's ready...and that's what she's doing.

You can call it one f*ckup since it involved the same people but the point is that all her times she tried to fix it were met by failure because of her inattentiveness.  She ignored them.  Ignoring the people you are suppose to be leading is a failure.  We are not talking about one of many, we are talking about the whole group. First there was the Mutant Massacre.  Then there were the survivors who got pissed off and formed teh Gene Nation and tried to kill baseline humans (and Storm as well).  Next she finds out about a pocket dimension created by Mikhail Rasputin holding teh rest of the Gene Nation.  She brings them back and tells them to move to Sudan.  The go to Sudan get attacked by mutant hating humans, she comes to help then they express how pissed off they are at her again for telling them to move there but never helping with anything and ignoring them.  D'Gard takes over in a bloodless coup and Storm accepts (because she knows she fails).  That was it, she never looks back to help ever.  Supposedly Dark Beast comes to collect some if not all of the remaining Gene NAtion for his own purposes.  To reject this story is to falsely idealize her.  She isn't some great community leader.  She has great militaristic tactical knowledge but knows nothing about urban planning. 

When T'Challa went on his foreign adventures he put people in place to watch over the kingdom in his place while still keeping tabs on the place.  Storm left the Morlocks/Gene Nation every single time and then tried to pull rank that she was leader.  It would have been different if she said "f*ck off go lead yourselves."  She was more concerned about the daily routine of being an X-man than fulfilling her responsibilities towards the Morlocks/Gene Nation.  Doesn't matter how you want to look at it, good story or not, based on continuity (that hasn't been retconned) she has been poor community/domestic leader.

Anyone who thinks otherwise exhibits one characteristic of the aforementioned syndrome. 2 more characteristics and one should be seeking treatment   

Have you been checked lately?  ;)

(oh noez I'm gonna catch heat for this lol)


Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 19, 2007, 08:01:07 am
There was more than one mistake.  THe one thing they had in common was her inattentiveness.  Storm has shown herself not able to handle the duties of leading a nation as well as be and active member and leader of an assault force.

Further evidence of poor leadership:  Storm was a teacher and advisor to an Xavier school team of students and she abandoned them to marry T'Challa.  For better or worse this is Storm's M.O.  She can lead the hell out of a squad team with specific missions but she has been shown inaffective at leading a group of people in anything other than that.  The point of my argument is to think that STorm would be a good leader of Wakanda at this point in her life is to negate all of her previous history let alone the adjustment period she would obviously need in learning about Wakanda.

The only time that affected Kitty was after the "Fall of the Mutants". Kitty stayed in England and cofounded Excalibur, but Storm never told them they were still alive after Dallas. Although that pain hasn't been re-addressed, it's the only leadership decision that left Kitty abandoned by Storm.

Dude, you are totally missing the point.  Sigh

Here's an example:

Nutcracker syndrome

In medicine, the nutcracker syndrome — also known as nutcracker phenomenon, renal vein entrapment syndrome, or mesoaortic compression of the left renal vein — is a compression of the left renal vein between the abdominal aorta (AA) and superior mesenteric artery (SMA).[1] The popular name "nutcracker syndrome" derives from the fact that, in the sagittal view, the SMA and AA (with some imagination) appear to be a nutcracker crushing a nut (the renal vein).



Forgive my I'm a psychologist and I was having a little fun. Syndromes and other types of illnesses are often named after the person(s) discovering them or a name someone attributes to it.  Often times these syndromes are named after something or someone can could represent the basic concept.  In this case, young Kitty Pride in that scene perfectly underscores, NEGATIVE FAN-BASE REACTION to Storm's wedding with Black Panther. Why you ask?

Because in that scene she is guilty of doing the same thing fans are doing now.  She negatively reacted to Storm making a significant change because it shook her foundations of what and who she thought Storm SHOULD BE.  The wedding for Storm represents a change some fans don't agree with.  The key idea here is change not the wedding itself.  The change breaks their idealized image of their "goddess."  This has nothing to do with Kitty Pryde today.  This has everything to do with Kitty Pryde at a young age not accepting Storm making a change.

I'm using only one action of a fictional character to describe a very real reaction.  Have you heard of the Oedipal complex?  In the story Oedipus didn't desire his mother once he found out it was his mother.  He gouged out his eyes when he realized so.  That has no bearing on Freud's theory.  The point is he had sex with his mother so Freud used the named to represent the complex.

Sheesh...
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 19, 2007, 08:03:46 am
Quote
1. Negative reaction to Storm's marriage to Black Panther for the simple fact that they are married.
Kitty doesn't reject the marriage.
2. Claims of mischaracterization without proper factual comic evidence.
Hasn't been talking behind Storm's or T'Challa's back.
3. Hatred of Black Panther (the character) despite never having read anything about the character.
She's said nothing about him.
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
N/A
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
She's said nothing so far.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)  
N/A, not unless you include fan fiction.
7. Idealization of Storm's personality and negation of human frailty and variance. (Ie.  Belief that she is a goddess and therefore would not succumb to reactions that other women may experience.)
She's said nothing related to that.

Totally irrelevant.  You are comparing a fictional character to a REAL-LIFE issues. 

Quote
You're using Kitty's name in reference to an past point of her development.

Exactly see the post above
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 19, 2007, 09:56:46 am
You can call it one f*ckup since it involved the same people but the point is that all her times she tried to fix it were met by failure because of her inattentiveness.  She ignored them.  Ignoring the people you are suppose to be leading is a failure.  We are not talking about one of many, we are talking about the whole group. First there was the Mutant Massacre.  Then there were the survivors who got pissed off and formed teh Gene Nation and tried to kill baseline humans (and Storm as well).  Next she finds out about a pocket dimension created by Mikhail Rasputin holding teh rest of the Gene Nation.  She brings them back and tells them to move to Sudan.  The go to Sudan get attacked by mutant hating humans, she comes to help then they express how pissed off they are at her again for telling them to move there but never helping with anything and ignoring them.  D'Gard takes over in a bloodless coup and Storm accepts (because she knows she fails).  That was it, she never looks back to help ever.  Supposedly Dark Beast comes to collect some if not all of the remaining Gene NAtion for his own purposes.  To reject this story is to falsely idealize her.  She isn't some great community leader.  She has great militaristic tactical knowledge but knows nothing about urban planning. 

Excuse me, where the f*ck am I disagreeing with you? All I'm saying is that Storm is not some bumbling incompetent like you're painting her out to be. Like any leader (including Magneto and Charles Xavier), she has made mistakes that have cost lives. Her "inattentiveness" was basically caused by being stretched too thin, not by being forgetful or bored. That's no excuse for the outcome, but these was hardly a "Rome is burning" scenarios. And if she's such a f*cked-up leader, why would the king of the most powerful country in the WORLD pick her as a bride? Because she's cute? Not hardly.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 19, 2007, 10:34:57 am

Excuse me, where the f*ck am I disagreeing with you? All I'm saying is that Storm is not some bumbling incompetent like you're painting her out to be. Like any leader (including Magneto and Charles Xavier), she has made mistakes that have cost lives. Her "inattentiveness" was basically caused by being stretched too thin, not by being forgetful or bored. That's no excuse for the outcome, but these was hardly a "Rome is burning" scenarios. And if she's such a f*cked-up leader, why would the king of the most powerful country in the WORLD pick her as a bride? Because she's cute? Not hardly.


my bad. seemed as if you disagreed with the premise from my end (hence your initial post).  I don't think she is incompetent but I feel that she hasn't show herself fully competent with a responsiblity such a leading a nation.  I''m not saying she can't grow into it.  I know we both agree on that.  However my initial statement refers to the fact that certain fans think that Competent Leader of the X-men= Competent Queen of Wakanda.  I'm saying that her queen role with encompasses certain skills that she has been shown lacking in the past.  That is all.  I'm not calling her an idiot, I just think that by looking at her past assuming she should be ruling Wakanda (Wakandan-outsider issues aside) with an iron fist is irrational and idiotic.  She will need to grow into the role not only because she is an outsider but because she has alot of learning to do on long-term nationbuilding.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 19, 2007, 10:50:21 am
However my initial statement refers to the fact that certain fans think that Competent Leader of the X-men= Competent Queen of Wakanda.  I'm saying that her queen role with encompasses certain skills that she has been shown lacking in the past.  That is all.  I'm not calling her an idiot, I just think that by looking at her past assuming she should be ruling Wakanda (Wakandan-outsider issues aside) with an iron fist is irrational and idiotic.  She will need to grow into the role not only because she is an outsider but because she has alot of learning to do on long-term nationbuilding.

Agreed! And Wakanda isn't exactly some dried out Sudanese desert. I get the feelings these people would revolt against Ororo if she led them down that same path, a la Marie Antoinette. Marie was hardly the cruel queen people have made her out to be, (IIRC, she was married to Louis XVI at 14 or 15), but she was woefully unprepared for the job, and we know the rest of the story. :D
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 19, 2007, 05:44:25 pm
Dude, you are totally missing the point. Sigh

Forgive my I'm a psychologist and I was having a little fun. Syndromes and other types of illnesses are often named after the person(s) discovering them or a name someone attributes to it.  Often times these syndromes are named after something or someone can could represent the basic concept.  In this case, young Kitty Pride in that scene perfectly underscores, NEGATIVE FAN-BASE REACTION to Storm's wedding with Black Panther. Why you ask?

Because in that scene she is guilty of doing the same thing fans are doing now.  She negatively reacted to Storm making a significant change because it shook her foundations of what and who she thought Storm SHOULD BE.  The wedding for Storm represents a change some fans don't agree with.  The key idea here is change not the wedding itself.  The change breaks their idealized image of their "goddess."  This has nothing to do with Kitty Pryde today.  This has everything to do with Kitty Pryde at a young age not accepting Storm making a change.

I'm using only one action of a fictional character to describe a very real reaction
.

And then you wrote to me: Totally irrelevant.  You are comparing a fictional character to a REAL-LIFE issues.

Quote
Have you heard of the Oedipal complex?  In the story Oedipus didn't desire his mother once he found out it was his mother.  He gouged out his eyes when he realized so.  That has no bearing on Freud's theory.  The point is he had sex with his mother so Freud used the named to represent the complex.

Sheesh...

That was a significant act by Oedipus. You're using a less signficant part of Kitty's past in contradiction to how she did behave to Storm's marriage. It's not 'one size fits all' here. Call it "Childish Kitty" syndrome if you will.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: D- Ruck on January 20, 2007, 02:04:01 pm
WTF? Why are you dragging my darling, Kitty, into this? She was happy for her!

has nothing to do with it.

The point: A young naive, selfish little girl who had idealized Storm to replace values and structure that she (Kitty) did not have in her own life, became unjustifiably upset when seeing Storm make a personal change.

A grown up Kitty being all for Storm getting married has nothing to do with this.  Do you see a pic of a grownup Kitty anywhere?

I agree, it wasn't about Kitty, it was about her reaction to Storm.  And it fits the fanbratti's reaction to a T, BTW, what issue was that?
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 20, 2007, 02:17:08 pm
I wonder how Kitty felt about the Virgin Mary - er, Ororo - when she learned that Storm lost her virginity when she was 12.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 20, 2007, 04:01:10 pm
I wonder how Kitty felt about the Virgin Mary - er, Ororo - when she learned that Storm lost her virginity when she was 12.

Kitty Pride -

"Ororo lost here virginity? Ororo, DID you lose your virginity? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 20, 2007, 05:31:41 pm
"Kitten, what do you think that Forge and I did all that time when we were trapped in the Beyonder's World?"

"FORGE, TOO!?!?!"

"Kitten, it was a year..."

"I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS! YOU ARE SUCH A SLUT!!!!"

*flounces off*
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 20, 2007, 05:36:45 pm
I wonder how Kitty felt about the Virgin Mary - er, Ororo - when she learned that Storm lost her virginity when she was 12.

Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: The Evasive 1 on January 20, 2007, 06:16:28 pm
I wonder how Kitty felt about the Virgin Mary - er, Ororo - when she learned that Storm lost her virginity when she was 12.

Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

Ororo -

"Baby Girl, you gave it up to an older man? Well, that's cool as long as he can pay some bills around here. What good is a Sugar Daddy for anyway?"  ;)
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 20, 2007, 06:18:11 pm
Dude, you are totally missing the point. Sigh

Forgive my I'm a psychologist and I was having a little fun. Syndromes and other types of illnesses are often named after the person(s) discovering them or a name someone attributes to it.  Often times these syndromes are named after something or someone can could represent the basic concept.  In this case, young Kitty Pride in that scene perfectly underscores, NEGATIVE FAN-BASE REACTION to Storm's wedding with Black Panther. Why you ask?

Because in that scene she is guilty of doing the same thing fans are doing now.  She negatively reacted to Storm making a significant change because it shook her foundations of what and who she thought Storm SHOULD BE.  The wedding for Storm represents a change some fans don't agree with.  The key idea here is change not the wedding itself.  The change breaks their idealized image of their "goddess."  This has nothing to do with Kitty Pryde today.  This has everything to do with Kitty Pryde at a young age not accepting Storm making a change.

I'm using only one action of a fictional character to describe a very real reaction
.

And then you wrote to me: Totally irrelevant.  You are comparing a fictional character to a REAL-LIFE issues.



There is a difference between comparing a fictional character to a real-life issue and using a character to describe real actions.

Kitty Pryde = fictional character thus
Quote
4. Hatred of Reginald Hudlin for despite never having read any issue of the current Black Panther run.
N/A
5. Claims of no backstory between 616 Storm and Black Panther.
She's said nothing so far.
6. False characterization of Storm's abilities that can be proven contrary to her actual 616 abilities (eg. Claims that she could easily be a good leader of Wakanda despite past history that have show her community leadership skills to be quite poor and ineffectual.)
N/A, not unless you include fan fiction.

makes 0 sense.  I would have thought you would have realized that by now.  Yes Kitty Pryde must really think Reggie Hudlin is an idiot. Hudlin hate is so strong even comic book characters hate him. 

(insert Storm-worshipping BP hater here) = real person thus comparison to a fictional character's action makes sense.

You are focusing on the marriage of Storm as opposed to the change of Storm.  THe marriage is an only a catalyst and symbol for change of the character not the totality of the change itself. 

Do you worship the ground Kitty Pryde phases through or something?  This is ridiculous.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 20, 2007, 06:25:11 pm
Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

That reminds me. Was that union even remotely legal? I'm not talking about legal in Thailand legal, or legal in Kansas legal, either.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Yaw on January 20, 2007, 07:46:13 pm
Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

That reminds me. Was that union even remotely legal? I'm not talking about legal in Thailand legal, or legal in Kansas legal, either.

I remember reading that the writer for Excalibur at the time was imagining Kitty to be in her twenties at the time.

BUt what about kitty and Colosus?  she was 13 and he seemed to be at least 18.  I never saw his exact age but he was written as being "teenager" when his brother Mikhail was an astornaut years before he was taken recruited by Xavier.  Illyana was a toddler (3-4) at the time and by the time she came to the X-Mansion (and before she went to the other realm and became a teenager) didn't she age a few years to like a 5 or 6 year old?
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 20, 2007, 09:14:53 pm
Do you worship the ground Kitty Pryde phases through or something?  This is ridiculous.

No, but it seems ridiculous to use the name of Storm's friend for describing reactions of those who against Storm's changes.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Open palm on January 20, 2007, 09:21:35 pm
Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

That reminds me. Was that union even remotely legal? I'm not talking about legal in Thailand legal, or legal in Kansas legal, either.

I remember reading that the writer for Excalibur at the time was imagining Kitty to be in her twenties at the time.

BUt what about kitty and Colosus?  she was 13 and he seemed to be at least 18.  I never saw his exact age but he was written as being "teenager" when his brother Mikhail was an astornaut years before he was taken recruited by Xavier.

When Kitty was with Wisdom she was around 18 - 20. In Great Britain the legal age is - what? 16? 17? Back when Kitty was with Piotr they were both teenagers. But they weren't that intimate. Yet, when they were both impregnated by the Brood Kitty wanted to make love to Colossus in case they all died.
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Vic Vega on January 22, 2007, 07:01:53 am
Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

That reminds me. Was that union even remotely legal? I'm not talking about legal in Thailand legal, or legal in Kansas legal, either.

Colossus never really touched Kitty as far as I know, until recently in Astonising X-men. She's 19 now. During the Excalibur run both she and Rahne (Wolvesbane) are around 17-18. While 16 is probably legal in England. Kitty was a little older than that. Had it been up to Ellis, this would have been made more clear. But Marvel thought there was a question of taste involved (and they weren't wrong IMHO). Hence, Colossus reaction to Wisdom (attempted murder). He's like "I've got that on lay-away, what are you doing. ":D

Y'know, when you look at it, Storm was probably by far the most sexless X-man. Even Rogue, whose touch practically KILLED folks got more than she did.   
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 22, 2007, 12:57:01 pm
The thing is, I never saw Storm as someone who would have sex with just anyone. NOT because she's so noble and pristine, but because there are some women who simply cannot enjoy sex unless they are genuinely in love with the person they are with. I'm one of them. I think Storm is another. She gives herself wholeheartedly, without restraint, and she can only do that with someone she truly, truly loves. Anything less than that is artificial - a cheap thrill. Which is why T'Challa can make hail in Wakanda. ;)
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: GrimSkill on January 22, 2007, 02:14:36 pm
I wonder how Kitty felt about the Virgin Mary - er, Ororo - when she learned that Storm lost her virginity when she was 12.

Probably the same when Storm learned Kitty lost her virginity to an older man, namely Pete Wisdom.  :)

Ororo -

"Baby Girl, you gave it up to an older man? Well, that's cool as long as he can pay some bills around here. What good is a Sugar Daddy for anyway?"  ;)

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Vic Vega on January 22, 2007, 02:19:40 pm
I take it Storm's "near-episode in Australia" with Slipstream didn't meet with your approval. :D

I thought it showed character growth that she went from going "Am I pretty?" at fancy dress balls to casually shopping for lingerie so she could seduce some Austrailan lifeguard. Though I doubt she'd have gone thru with it. I think she just liked the idea being in the mix.  
Title: Re: The Kitty Pryde Syndrome
Post by: Jenn on January 22, 2007, 04:38:31 pm
I take it Storm's "near-episode in Australia" with Slipstream didn't meet with your approval. :D

I thought it showed character growth that she went from going "Am I pretty?" at fancy dress balls to casually shopping for lingerie so she could seduce some Austrailan lifeguard. Though I doubt she'd have gone thru with it. I think she just liked the idea being in the mix. 


That was a Claremont masturbatory fanfic, plain and simple. Self-insertion at its absolute worst. I'd ask you for a scan (I never made it past #8), but I don't think my stomach could handle it. I like Storm in her "Am I pretty?" mode. Banging some 19 year old DUMB ASS surfer boy? Now THAT'S out of character!