Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: supreme illuminati on July 22, 2016, 02:17:28 pm

Title: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 22, 2016, 02:17:28 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0)



Never. Ever. Ever. In my memory. Has the Big Two ever. Ever. Devoted TWO books to the mythos of a Black character. Despite whatever fears there my [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes.

This is what I have thus far on Black feminist writer, Roxane Gay: http://www.roxanegay.com/ (http://www.roxanegay.com/)

and her cowritr, the poet Yona Harvey: http://yonaharvey.com/ (http://yonaharvey.com/)

They both seem to be powerful, experienced writers in their respective genres who are complete n00bs to comics.

And now we see why The Dora Milaje and our beautiful Black warrior women are sooo heavily featured in Coates' initial arc, while T'Challa himself is downplayed...


...thoughts?
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Salustrade on July 22, 2016, 04:05:58 pm
What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Booshman on July 22, 2016, 07:02:13 pm
I have a feeling that this book will flop just as hard as Storm's book.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 22, 2016, 10:16:11 pm
What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.


Three points:

1. I was talking about the inclusion of two sistahs writing a book about powerful sistahs. A history making achievement. In the face of static like that of the uptick in reporting of police brutality and the national discourse it causes. And. My complete and correct statement was: " Despite whatever fears there may [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes."--SUPREME ILLUMINATI.

Which,when looked at correctly, does not have the connotations of your less contextual comment and query. And answers the question you ask within the body of the sentences themselves [ I am "kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes" because there re TWO books for Wakanda. Which means that Marvel...for the nonce...is actually committed to more diversity and inclusion happening at Marvel period. Which Is A Good Thing. ]

2. We are about 4 issues into Coates' run. Even though I have put the run down for the nonce, I know already that he will turn the corner and bring T'Challa...guns blazing...out of this ridiculousness which currently undermines him. And which...unfortunately...will be used in the future against him and Wakanda as well.

Do I fear for this new Wakanda? In the sense that there was ZERO WRONG WITH THE OLD WAKANDA and New Wakanda will likely REDUCE the shine and brilliance of OLD WAKANDA? YES.

But. What many heads here forget? Is that if TChalla and Shuri are no longer the unquestioned ultimate power in Wakanda, and must deal with a more democratic process and power sharing thing in Wakanda? Well...THAT'S ACTUALLY WHAT TRADITIONAL RULERSHIP WAS IN TRADITIONAL AFRIKA. The COUNCIL...the same Council which has taken on far too European of a flavor and been basically an ineffectual Congress of yielding YES MEN...is supposed to. Designed for. Charged with. Curtailing any and all excesses in power etc of the Ruling Family.  The Ruling Family [ traditionally ] CANNOT make arbitrary decisions. Their power IS NOT ABSOLUTE.

TChalla and the Royals have been usually presented as in possession of Absolute Power. This is in direct opposition to what Traditional Afrika and my fanfic presents as the truth. So. If Coates does THAT? He's ACTUALLY MAKING THE BLACK PANTHER MORE BLACK. NOT LESS.

 Will Marvel eventually find ways to screw T'Challa in the future, anyway? With or without Coates? Yes. They have already done so, to lasting effect.

Because it terrified and offended them limitlessly, they not only ended THE MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY? They drug T'Challa and Storm through the mud for years so badly that even many of the HEF Faithful were crying for TChalla and Ororo to stay apart. We were getting sick of seeing them together...only to be collectively crapped upon by TPB at Marvel. The same group that [ imo less than convincingly ] are trying to say how good inclusion is for Marvel, now.

They don't care about "inclusivity". They care about PROFITS. That's it. That's what businesses do.

So we have  TChalla as wife beater being canon; thanks to the X-books. TChalla as being sexually underperforming and undesirable when compared to the White X-Males is already canon..thanks to the X-books. Some other White guy could latch on to that and screw T'Challa AGAIN with it.

But a Black writer should never evereverever pave the way for such. Or add other ammo for such. Come on, bruh. RAPE CAMPS? Might as well show TChalla rockin a TRUMP FOR PREZ pin and poster, while you're at it.

3. Even if these sistahs bomb and this WAKANDA joint falls in flames? The work will still stand and be canon. That alone is worth feeling hope and something good about. Because their content will be strong, if their previous writing is any indication. So...we won't have any cringe-worthy Rape Campish stuff to deal with.

But I think they can last a profitable year. And. All they have to do is be profitable for a year. A year. And the MCU will come to their rescue sufficiently to drive new readers to them as the average moviegoer becomes aware of...and LIKES...TChalla.

Okay. With that out the way. Some unabashed sailing into What If Land.

Would love to see a WAKANDA joint on Netflix, but that is complete and total crackhead on Beyonder LSD wishful thinking. Even though it'd be a SMASH HIT if they collab with Ryan Coogler's squad as he directs BP.

Right now? Even a BLADE joint on Netflix would be a stretch...even though it'd be a SMASH HIT if they had Goyer and Wesley Snipes on it. And kept Wesley as the straight up star...even if they added Wesley's daughter to the show [ which they should; probably as a cliffhanger intro at the last part of the last scene of Season 2 or Season 1 ].


Wanna go real $? BLADE [and daughter ]. MS. MARVEL.  HAWKEYE [ both of them, but Clint Barton starts it off the first 2 seasons, with guests from BLACK WIDOW. Yes. Get Renner from the movies to do NETFLIX HAWKEYE. He can rock that, for real; plus he really wants to do it:http://www.slashfilm.com/hawkeye-netflix-series/  ].  BLACK WIDOW. [ Can't be Scarlett Johansson....her price tag is too big for Netflix. Word is she got paid more than Chris Evans aka Captain America for AVENGERS: AGE OF ULTRON with a ill $20 mill http://moviepilot.com/posts/3829376 (http://moviepilot.com/posts/3829376) ; so we'd have to go with the first set of WIDOWS. Or a second triumvirate of Widows. The blonde or brown haired girl. With a Afrikan and Chinese Widow. Widows+Charlie's Angels+ Affirmative Action. HAHAHAHAHAHA!! No, it would be a hit if the action was ill, and with Hawkeye, Elektra, Lady Deadpool, and Misty Knight guesting periodically ].


Since we're going there, anyway? What about a option on a ELEKTRA AND LADY DEADPOOL series? Now, the girl playing Elektra in Daredevil on Netflix IS NOT Elektra. But she could be fashioned into a reasonable facsimile. They need her to put on 15 pounds of muscle and sexy curves, stat. Take a lot. A lot. A looot. Of fight training.

 And LADY DEADPOOL  should be Eleanor Camacho, Deadpool's daughter. But who would play her? Answer: MICHELLE RODRIGUEZ, maybe?  That right there? All star big $ lineup.

Only one thing this startup is missing: SHANG-CHI MASTER OF KUNG FU [ without MI-6 ]. But. Who could play him, and bring in the views? Lee Byung-Hun...the guy who played Stormshadow in the G.I. JOE movies?

(http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gijoe/images/f/f8/Gi_joe_retaliation_ver5.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120419203415)

Maybe Brandon Soo Hoo, the guy who played Young Storm Shadow in 2009 and 2013, and is doing that FROM DUSK TIL DAWN series thing? He's 21 years old, so if they wanted to go young? Brandon might be the way to go.

And. With Iron Fist coming? How can they make a sufficiently sharp enough difference between the two characters to essentially not have a White and Chinese version of the same guy?

Ironically...Shang Chi would be more street gritty [ think Donnie Yen on FLASHPOINT plus 100 Eyes on MARCO POLO NETFLIX plus Jason Bourne ] and Iron Fist would be mostly street plus mystical [  a billionaire Yuri Boyka with a Iron Fist ].

Thoughts?
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Salustrade on July 23, 2016, 03:25:47 am
What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Booshman on July 23, 2016, 03:38:33 am
Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.

Can't wait to see, if she does, how much shade she'll throw on Wakanda, and more specifically it's male population. Since Coates has pretty much enabled that via his "sudden rape camps" bullcrap.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Salustrade on July 23, 2016, 03:43:30 am
Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.

Can't wait to see, if she does, how much shade she'll throw on Wakanda, and more specifically it's male population. Since Coates has pretty much enabled that via his "sudden rape camps" bullcrap.

Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Booshman on July 23, 2016, 03:50:33 am

Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.

Part of me was glad he was on the book, because of who he is. But upon reading his remarks towards Wakanda and how he sounded like he didn't REALLY want to be put on the book, he caused me to give him a bit of a side eye look. Looks like I wasn't off the mark, with his invention. The latest version of BP. The "Mopey Pants Panther".

Hopefully this new BP spinoff book isolates the whole ridiculous angry lesbian subplot, removes this new emerging "Doras version of the Carol Corps" from the readership (who want this book to be something it isn't), and allows Coates to write a more BP focused story.

But I have my doubts.


:edit:
Nice, you hit 1k posts.  ;D
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 06:43:00 am
So we have tchallas book... written in a feminist vantage point

Now a second book written byban actual feminist

Here i am just hoping for comic writers to write bp

Never thought id here 2 bo ish books and feel a sense of dreas

Really, realky questioning my fandom
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Hypestyle on July 23, 2016, 07:51:45 am
Wakanda should have many more superheroes who travel the globe and have adventures.  Sorcerers, high-tech folks, acrobats, and more, based on animal totems.

I have an idea for a new Panther villain.. hopefully I'll get to write it someday..

Have Priest come in and write a storyline about one of the Panthers of the past.  1500s, 1780s, 1850s, 1900, etc.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 23, 2016, 08:02:56 am
What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.


Didn't give you a wall of text response. My response to you was limited to a few sparse sentences, over two sparse paragraphs.

The rest was a historical factual reminder that if Coates switched TChalla and Shuri to a more Council involved Wakanda, that doing so is actually what REAL traditional Afrikan Councils were for, and did. The "absolute monarchy" was a European and in some cases Asian preference. Afrikan monarchs were constitutionally elected, regulated, answering to the people and were balanced by Councils. Coates pulling such a move actually makes T'Challa BLACKER than before.

Just...he really shouldn't've used that raggedy Rape Camp BS at all. Or presented Wakanda as essentially bereft of direction. Wakanda has seen and overcome more than this before. Etc etc.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 23, 2016, 08:30:54 am

Bro, at this point, it's pretty much obvious that Coates had an anti-T'Challa/Wakanda agenda from day one, which should automatically precluded him from being offered the BP writing gig in the first place.

As far as I'm concerned, Coates might as well be a fully signed up KKK member just based upon the agenda he's pushing on the BP mythos.

Part of me was glad he was on the book, because of who he is. But upon reading his remarks towards Wakanda and how he sounded like he didn't REALLY want to be put on the book, he caused me to give him a bit of a side eye look. Looks like I wasn't off the mark, with his invention. The latest version of BP. The "Mopey Pants Panther".

Hopefully this new BP spinoff book isolates the whole ridiculous angry lesbian subplot, removes this new emerging "Doras version of the Carol Corps" from the readership (who want this book to be something it isn't), and allows Coates to write a more BP focused story.

But I have my doubts.


:edit:
Nice, you hit 1k posts.  ;D


I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.

That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.

In my fanfic, I have Shuri address a fictional rape camp near Wakanda [ built after the horrors of Rwanda ] just before she goes off to slap the fish grease off Namor. During this brutal execution of offenders, she...like Storm, under RH's pen, from whom I drew the inspiration for Shuri doing like things...our Queen and Deadliest Of The Species makes very clear  to all that Wakanda ain't like that.

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 08:43:21 am
Hickman turned it around by letting namor live and giving all multiverse saving credit to reed?
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on July 23, 2016, 08:46:29 am
I understand your hopes SI and i hope something good happens  but Right now this feels like the monkeys paw. It would  great if T'Challa becomes the focus and a power driving force. But given the spin off is a back story of the Dora's... it's gonna be brutal for T'Challa, Wakanda  and Black men in general. I cringe at whats to come  especially From a feminist view point where Coates literally drowned the mythos on gasoline and the writer in question is gonna likely come at this with a flame thrower... I fear for BPs mythos and image. It's gonna suck. T'Challa will be forever stained depending on at They write. Because the MA aren't gonna lose. It's funny because Coates aid he didn't want to write T'Challa like Priest Did yet he wrote the MAs like that
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 23, 2016, 08:50:50 am

I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.


Look at the rest of the movie/comic universe.  One of the biggest (most valid) complaints I've heard is that if people get interested in Iron Man or Cap or Thor or Spider-man from the films and go check out a comic they won't see the same character.  Iron Man is about to be changed.  Thor is a woman; Cap looks very different; Spider-man is a CEO of an international company. I've heard different reasons why from "we made them different, because if they were the same people wouldn't read the comics.  But if it is different they'll be curious." to some downright gossip.  So, no, Marvel doesn't care one iota that the comic version of BP isn't anything like the film version. 


That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.
...

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.

I saw one line on a preview page, "we're (Wakandans) aren't divine."  I think that's true.  The Wakandans might be "on a whole nutha level" but that doesn't make them perfect.  HOWEVER there is a far cry from going from "not divine" to rape camps. 
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 08:55:49 am
I understand your hopes SI and i hope something good happens  but Right now this feels like the monkeys paw. It would  great if T'Challa becomes the focus and a power driving force. But given the spin off is a back story of the Dora's... it's gonna be brutal for T'Challa, Wakanda  and Black men in general. I cringe at whats to come  especially From a feminist view point where Coates literally drowned the mythos on gasoline and the writer in question is gonna likely come at this with a flame thrower... I fear for BPs mythos and image. It's gonna suck. T'Challa will be forever stained depending on at They write. Because the MA aren't gonna lose. It's funny because Coates aid he didn't want to write T'Challa like Priest Did yet he wrote the MAs like that

Who knew god damn tchalla would be the test case for marvel for "men suck!"

At least when the dud it to odin and asgard, there was dome history to pull grom of odin being an ass
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 23, 2016, 08:58:33 am
Hickman turned it around by letting namor live and giving all multiverse saving credit to reed?

I have to agree with SI here.  Namor lived because the editors decided that the Squadron Supreme writer gets his wish to kill him.

But BP may have not been THE key player, he still was an essential player in the end.  Without him, Reed wouldn't have won.  (And given that this series was changed into the FF swan song, Reed had to be given the key ending role.)  And technically speaking, BP pulled it off, restored the city, saved the lives of the kids, sent them into space, and every indication was he undid all the damage.  Coates, at least to me, decided to undo it and make it a partial restoration and not a complete one.

You may not like how he got there, and BP may not have shined or was given his best show, (especially since the whole story was what happens when heroes cannot win), but in the end, he was just as important to victory as Reed was.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 09:06:10 am
If editors werent gonna let him kill him, he shoukdnt have started the drama

He hadca gwt out of jail free card with sw to mske it happen and put it back again

I dont hate hickmans ryn as much as others, but his ending ws anti climatic and unearned
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 23, 2016, 09:12:44 am
If editors werent gonna let him kill him, he shoukdnt have started the drama

He hadca gwt out of jail free card with sw to mske it happen and put it back again

I dont hate hickmans ryn as much as others, but his ending ws anti climatic and unearned


I think the editors were going to allow him, when the story started.  But it took so long to tell this story.  When the end started to come close, and they started making plans post-SW, they hired Robinson for the Squadron and he said, he wanted to kill Namor so they gave it to him.  This is just my conjecture, but I think Hickman planned to kill Namor when the knife went into his chest.  That's why at the end of the story, we saw a little blurb about Namor being dead.  Then they pulled it and made him change things.  It felt to me like changing course in mid-stream.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 09:14:57 am
All to prop up a book no one cares about
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 23, 2016, 09:19:47 am
All to prop up a book no one cares about

Funny thing was originally, I was looking forward to that book, but killing Namor is actually what killed my interest in that book.  I didn't like and lost all interest in the book.  (It also killed my interest in Hyperion's book.  Of course, the story and art would have killed my interest in Hyperion's book anyway.)
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 23, 2016, 09:28:17 am
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on July 23, 2016, 09:34:18 am
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: A.Curry on July 23, 2016, 11:41:40 am
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on July 23, 2016, 01:20:06 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...
The act that all the men can be named on 1 hand speaks volumes. Because there are rape camp's. T'Challa is being shown as evil by inaction. He represents a failed government that allowed Wakanda to reach a state ts never been in.  And  it kinda plays in 1 man shouldn't have all the power. Not one family  one man, and it's been pushed constantly how women aren't treated equal and the men sat by and did nothing. When the women cried out, the women answered .
That's the vibe felt. And there are lots of ways this could of been handled that shoes a change is needed, without it being wildly exaggerated that the abusers where known and somehow protected by the Royal family
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 23, 2016, 01:47:33 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...

I always wondered it was specifically about one man as in one male , or one man as in person. After all, both men and women have ruled Wakanda, especially recently.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: KIP LEWIS on July 23, 2016, 02:51:02 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...

I always wondered it was specifically about one man as in one male , or one man as in person. After all, both men and women have ruled Wakanda, especially recently.

I think it is the generic man, instead of male.  Or if could be man means T'Challa specifically.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 23, 2016, 05:26:14 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...

I always wondered it was specifically about one man as in one male , or one man as in person. After all, both men and women have ruled Wakanda, especially recently.

I think it is the generic man, instead of male.  Or if could be man means T'Challa specifically.

I honestly wasn't sure what it was referring to. Coates during the BP #2 recap vid just said that it means that no one man should have that much authority, or something like that. Didn't elaborate beyond that.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 23, 2016, 05:28:02 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...

I think we'll be getting a constitutional monarchy when its all said and done. T'Challa remains King and the royal family still has a lot of influence, but it will be another governing body that will have the final say in affairs. Or at least, will have significant veto power of some kind.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on July 23, 2016, 06:56:03 pm
So what kind of feminist is this chick?

Are we talking a real one looking for gender equality or the new age "men are evil"Type?

Does it matter? Coates already set the road towards men are evil. Hence everything happening in his book ontop of no one man quote.

I just want to see the solicits for issue 7 and 8 so i know how sh*tty or hopeful I should feel


Do you really think men overall are shown as "evil" in this book?  because I dont think most of the men in it are...including T'Challa, that teacher with the long 'locks, the Hatut Zeraze leader, or even Tetu the sorcerer/villain...

...despite my growing reservations regarding what Coates is doing, as I attested on the "Reparations" thread...I actually think the "no one man" propaganda was more about them protesting Wakanda as a monarchy and that "no one man" should lead the entire nation.  Again, I think this is leading to Wakanda becoming a democracy or being fully led by a council...

I think we'll be getting a constitutional monarchy when its all said and done. T'Challa remains King and the royal family still has a lot of influence, but it will be another governing body that will have the final say in affairs. Or at least, will have significant veto power of some kind.
Or Coates separates the Dora's into either own independent side Bd outs then into a position of power. Like the Voice of the people or something.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: supreme illuminati on July 23, 2016, 07:27:02 pm

I don't think that Coates has a anti-BP agenda, and if he did? I don't think that Marvel would let him script the book. From a purely business perspective, it makes zero sense to turn TChalla into a hot movie moneymaker then strangle his max profit making potential on merch and books and stuff by purposefully presenting him as alllll with the sucka move in comics.


Look at the rest of the movie/comic universe.  One of the biggest (most valid) complaints I've heard is that if people get interested in Iron Man or Cap or Thor or Spider-man from the films and go check out a comic they won't see the same character.  Iron Man is about to be changed.  Thor is a woman; Cap looks very different; Spider-man is a CEO of an international company. I've heard different reasons why from "we made them different, because if they were the same people wouldn't read the comics.  But if it is different they'll be curious." to some downright gossip.  So, no, Marvel doesn't care one iota that the comic version of BP isn't anything like the film version. 


That is why I am sure that Coates will turn TChalla around. I also repeatedly stated that Hickman would turn TChalla around. Which he did in resounding fashion.

But I never thought I'd see the day that a Afrikan writer of Coates' caliber would write ANYTHING like Rape Camps in a book like TChalla's. The...gut wrenching wrongness of this is...not reconcilable with Blackness. As Salustrade alluded to? It DOES seem like a Klansman or a X-Office author [ who isn't Bendis ] wrote that.

I heard about Sudanese and Boko Haram rape camps. These are the acts of criminals who should be wholesale destroyed. Killed. Not jailed. Killed. They are the absolute antithesis of what Wakanda is.
...

CJP very much emphasized this reality by even having Kasper Cole repeatedly note that Wakandans are "...on a whole nutha level than us regular Black folk..." That right there? Should have been the canon standard blocking all that Rape Camp mess from being remotely a discussion.

I saw one line on a preview page, "we're (Wakandans) aren't divine."  I think that's true.  The Wakandans might be "on a whole nutha level" but that doesn't make them perfect.  HOWEVER there is a far cry from going from "not divine" to rape camps.


I completely agree that Wakanda isn't flawless. I seem to recall that the 12 Tribes of Wakanda used to NEVER AGREE ON ANYTHING. If the 12 Tribes never agreed on anything? Then...inescapably...the unification of and creation of Wakanda required war. Including Civil War.

I'm not sure if Bashenga  ascended to an already present and internally pacified Wakanda, or if Bashenga literally fought and won the wars that made Wakanda whole and pacified. But. There was war. From within and without Wakanda. More than once. And that means that the Wakandans aren't divine or flawless.

We all know and accept this already.

But Wakanda IS the shining example of humanity. Guess what? As you pointed out...Rape Camps are NOT shining examples of humanity. Rape Camps is the result of unchecked uncivility and criminality run amok. Rape Camps is what happens when your civilization is still very much prey to its baser urges. That's what happens when you HAVEN'T had 10k years of utopia PRECEDING such an event.  Wakanda HAS had 10k years of almost unbroken utopia, therefore Wakanda...to its core...is some place that Rape Camps CAN NEVER EVER HAPPEN.

Wakanda isn't Sudan or Boko Haram. Or even remotely close to them in any way other than blood and phenotype. They are on the same continuum, but that gulf between them is so vast as to be unspannable. Sudan is to Wakanda what a faint fleeting self extinguishing flash of faux fire is to the blazing heart of galaxies.

And that's being kind about it.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on July 24, 2016, 11:02:09 am
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0[/url] ([url]http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/books/black-panther-marvel-comics-roxane-gay-ta-nehisi-coates-wakanda.html?_r=0[/url])



Never. Ever. Ever. In my memory. Has the Big Two ever. Ever. Devoted TWO books to the mythos of a Black character. Despite whatever fears there my [ justifiably ] be on the horizon? This news gave me a charge of good vibes and hope. Kinda conflicted feeling, overall. But leaning towards hope and good vibes.

This is what I have thus far on Black feminist writer, Roxane Gay: [url]http://www.roxanegay.com/[/url] ([url]http://www.roxanegay.com/[/url])

and her cowritr, the poet Yona Harvey: [url]http://yonaharvey.com/[/url] ([url]http://yonaharvey.com/[/url])

They both seem to be powerful, experienced writers in their respective genres who are complete n00bs to comics.

And now we see why The Dora Milaje and our beautiful Black warrior women are sooo heavily featured in Coates' initial arc, while T'Challa himself is downplayed...


...thoughts?


a black bisexual feminist is writing a Black Panther book? (sighs) Disney, I mean marvel has been killing me with a lot of the propaganda they have been trying to shove down readers throats. I'm just waiting for them to reveal that T'challa is gay, smh
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on July 24, 2016, 11:04:00 am
I have a feeling that this book will flop just as hard as Storm's book.

I read that whole series to my daughters and they loved it, I thought it was pretty good.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on July 24, 2016, 11:13:27 am
What aspect of Coates utter disregard and obvious disdain for the BP mythos (prior to his involvement) fills you with hope and good vibes?

Post Hickman, Coates is without a doubt, the worst BP writer bar none.

Three points:


Dude, I wasn't asking for a "wall of text" response from you.

I see nothing to celebrate here with the announcement of a second BP related book written by a self confessed feminist when said book will merely be following through on the nerfing of T'Challa that's currently occuring in a solo book that's ostensibly supposed to be about the titular character.

Ms Gay is one of Coates peers hand selected by and recommended to Marvel by himself which in itself should set alarm bells going off like Spiderman's much vaunted spidey senses but I digress.

As long as Coates remains at the helm as regards BP related books, the BP mythos will continue to suffer.

Carry on.


Didn't give you a wall of text response. My response to you was limited to a few sparse sentences, over two sparse paragraphs.

The rest was a historical factual reminder that if Coates switched TChalla and Shuri to a more Council involved Wakanda, that doing so is actually what REAL traditional Afrikan Councils were for, and did. The "absolute monarchy" was a European and in some cases Asian preference. Afrikan monarchs were constitutionally elected, regulated, answering to the people and were balanced by Councils. Coates pulling such a move actually makes T'Challa BLACKER than before.

Just...he really shouldn't've used that raggedy Rape Camp BS at all. Or presented Wakanda as essentially bereft of direction. Wakanda has seen and overcome more than this before. Etc etc.

most societies in Afrika were traditionally socialist societies. People take our ideas and give them names and get all the credit for them, don't need to read Marx or Kant, study the source
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on July 24, 2016, 11:24:21 am
Hickman turned it around by letting namor live and giving all multiverse saving credit to reed?

I have to agree with SI here.  Namor lived because the editors decided that the Squadron Supreme writer gets his wish to kill him.

But BP may have not been THE key player, he still was an essential player in the end.  Without him, Reed wouldn't have won.  (And given that this series was changed into the FF swan song, Reed had to be given the key ending role.)  And technically speaking, BP pulled it off, restored the city, saved the lives of the kids, sent them into space, and every indication was he undid all the damage.  Coates, at least to me, decided to undo it and make it a partial restoration and not a complete one.

You may not like how he got there, and BP may not have shined or was given his best show, (especially since the whole story was what happens when heroes cannot win), but in the end, he was just as important to victory as Reed was.

Thank You! Black Panther with the Infinity Gauntlet one of my fav Panther moments
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on July 24, 2016, 11:35:59 am
(sighs)

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda?utm_campaign=sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda&utm_medium=email&utm_source=breaking_bulletin (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda?utm_campaign=sdcc-roxane-gay-joins-marvel-for-black-panther-world-of-wakanda&utm_medium=email&utm_source=breaking_bulletin)

"It's the most bizarre thing I've ever done, and I mean that in the best possible way," Gay told The New York Times. "The opportunity to write black women and queer black women into the Marvel Universe, there's no saying no to that."

She is definitely looking to having a good time on her run writing Panther. I just want to echo what someone else already said, can we get some real comic book writers on Panther please? Is Geoff Johns available? Lol   For anyone who has not read the Avengers: Red Zone tpb where Panther broke Red Skull's jaw, please.........treat yo' self!
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Blanks on July 26, 2016, 06:17:21 pm
Ive never wanted a Black Panther comic to be canceled ever In my life. But here I am. Thank you Coates.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 26, 2016, 06:47:43 pm
I just wish at tge very least he was on a team book doing super hero stuff

Instead he us drivibg the taxi for adam and carol
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 26, 2016, 06:52:35 pm
Ive never wanted a Black Panther comic to be canceled ever In my life. But here I am. Thank you Coates.

Yeah... i wouodnt me mad

It woukd just be relaunched ala Captain Marvel

Instead its selling like crazy. My brain hurts
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Blanks on July 27, 2016, 05:40:18 pm
Sad thing is, his usage in Ultimates, ALMOST, doesnt bother me. I see that book as a Blue Marvel book first most. You can tell that Ewing is really enjoying BM as a character from his crazy development of Afam's family from the entire Time he wrote Mighty Avengers to now. While T'Challa may not see much action, his character is on point and is being respected. That's more than can be said than by any of the writers that wrote T'Challa post Liss, in any book that used T'Challa (looking at you X-Men, Age of Ultron).

I think that in Ultimates 2, which kickstarts after Civil War concludes, Ewing will have more time and opportunities to flesh T'Challa out in a team settling moreso, just like he did with Blue Marvel, who really came into his own during Captain America and the Mighty Avengers. In Ewing, I trust... At least more than Coates in not only writing Black Panther, but Black charters. Ewing has done nothing but show our characters of color, not just black but Hispanic (White Tiger, MAC) major love. All Coates has done is show and tell negative Black imager art in a hostitale climate at a time in our country where we really don't need that ish.

Hell, I have white friends that have read BP/Coates issues and told me that they can't read another issue. It's not BP, it's not Wakanda.

Now, I can respect the story. I can respect the kind of story he wants to tell, and the chapters to create. But destroying such a legacy, a mythos... ruining a character especially right after his FIRST breakout appearance in the big screen... Nah. I don't think I can continue supporting this BP title in good faith. Not anymore.

I'll probably buy the first issue of this Wakanda comic; I always give Black lead comics the first issue try out. Now that it's being helmed by black creators; that interests me greatly; but if Wakanda is ruined beyond repair due to Coates, I think officially my BP collection run ends with Secret War.

But then again, surprisingly enough, MANY of my comic collecting ended with Secret War and Rebirth. So there is that....
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Emperorjones on July 30, 2016, 07:11:09 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.

I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 30, 2016, 07:18:43 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Booshman on July 30, 2016, 07:56:59 am

Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

Since the face of LGBT is "pretty white males", I have my doubts that it'll be all that successful.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 30, 2016, 08:08:41 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

The cynic in me says "Yes, it will." I hope I'm wrong.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Booshman on July 30, 2016, 08:17:02 am
I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

I was just about to type a similar sentiment. That he's writing a milquetoast black power character, as so not to upset the sensibilities of white liberals/moderates who are open-minded but have been proven to be easily shaken when there's just "too much blackness" all at once. ESPECIALLY when it comes to fantasy that shows that they're not being relied on by blacks.

As for Nick Spencer and Captain America #10. The fact that he was "blacker" than Coates, the writer who IS KNOWN for "blacking it up", just re-affirms that Coates is playing it safe. It's pathetic. The same thing with these three issues of Nighthawk by Walker. Neither of them are as timid and as tepid as Coates is being.

With Coates, the black writer who is known for preaching about how bad it is for black folks, the fact that he's too timid to write a fullblown black fantasy remedy of that, is more telling than he thinks.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 30, 2016, 08:19:00 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

It appears that will be the case. Coates said on Thursday that Aneka and Ayo won't be showing up as much from #5 onward. Same with Zenzi.

It explains why the MAs and Zenzi will be featured first in the new book.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Emperorjones on July 30, 2016, 05:29:55 pm
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

I think the first issue will be a big seller, like how Black Panther #1 was a big seller. I don't think see the Midnight Angels book selling as well or higher, but still the first issue should do well. I'm more curious about how it will do after that. I do think it will be interesting to see what audience, if any exists for this book, and if it will be supported by LGBTQ readers, black feminist readers, and white liberals, which I think are the audiences this book might appeal to the most, and will likely need their support to be successful. So I am very curious indeed if the support is there for black/African lesbian characters in stories that take place in Africa.

I mean if a white American lesbian like Batwoman, and that wasn't a bad book from what I read of it, didn't connect with audiences, Marvel is taking a chance with the Midnight Angels. That being said, I can at least give Marvel credit for taking a chance. For years they have been very skittish, but perhaps they realize they are going to have to be more bold (yet largely within the confines of white male control) to reach diverse audiences and to get headlines and buzz.

Though right off it seems like Marvel didn't have super confidence in the Midnight Angels idea because they used Black Panther to set the stage and even their own book is not called Midnight Angels or Ayo & Aneka. World of Wakanda sounds too vague and more like an anthology series. So there seems to be a bit of obfuscation around this project, first using Black Panther and now hiding them behind a vague title. If they are just going to do their series, name it the Midnight Angels. It sounds cooler.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 30, 2016, 05:50:40 pm
im curious to see how many T'challa fans pick it up...

Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on July 30, 2016, 06:00:57 pm
im curious to see how many T'challa fans pick it up...

T'challa fans specifically? Ehhhh.....not as many as one would think.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Emperorjones on July 30, 2016, 06:04:23 pm
I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

I was just about to type a similar sentiment. That he's writing a milquetoast black power character, as so not to upset the sensibilities of white liberals/moderates who are open-minded but have been proven to be easily shaken when there's just "too much blackness" all at once. ESPECIALLY when it comes to fantasy that shows that they're not being relied on by blacks.

As for Nick Spencer and Captain America #10. The fact that he was "blacker" than Coates, the writer who IS KNOWN for "blacking it up", just re-affirms that Coates is playing it safe. It's pathetic. The same thing with these three issues of Nighthawk by Walker. Neither of them are as timid and as tepid as Coates is being.

With Coates, the black writer who is known for preaching about how bad it is for black folks, the fact that he's too timid to write a fullblown black fantasy remedy of that, is more telling than he thinks.

Good point about the audience, though I don't know how open minded they really are if they only want to see a shackled T'Challa. So right about people not liking the idea of blacks not needing them, of not being in a subordinate position. I wonder if Coates is under the false belief that he has to prove himself to his white patrons by not being too black or writing too black with Panther.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Emperorjones on July 30, 2016, 06:08:23 pm
im curious to see how many T'challa fans pick it up...

Yeah. I'm curious about that too. Right now, I'm skipping it.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Salustrade on July 30, 2016, 06:46:28 pm
I really thank God for HEF.

This is the one place I can come to discuss about the BP mythos freely.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: MindofShadow on July 30, 2016, 08:19:54 pm

With Coates, the black writer who is known for preaching about how bad it is for black folks, the fact that he's too timid to write a fullblown black fantasy remedy of that, is more telling than he thinks.


(http://i.imgur.com/2JrU4f6.gif)
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on August 01, 2016, 09:42:02 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

I think the first issue will be a big seller, like how Black Panther #1 was a big seller. I don't think see the Midnight Angels book selling as well or higher, but still the first issue should do well. I'm more curious about how it will do after that. I do think it will be interesting to see what audience, if any exists for this book, and if it will be supported by LGBTQ readers, black feminist readers, and white liberals, which I think are the audiences this book might appeal to the most, and will likely need their support to be successful. So I am very curious indeed if the support is there for black/African lesbian characters in stories that take place in Africa.

I mean if a white American lesbian like Batwoman, and that wasn't a bad book from what I read of it, didn't connect with audiences, Marvel is taking a chance with the Midnight Angels. That being said, I can at least give Marvel credit for taking a chance. For years they have been very skittish, but perhaps they realize they are going to have to be more bold (yet largely within the confines of white male control) to reach diverse audiences and to get headlines and buzz.

Though right off it seems like Marvel didn't have super confidence in the Midnight Angels idea because they used Black Panther to set the stage and even their own book is not called Midnight Angels or Ayo & Aneka. World of Wakanda sounds too vague and more like an anthology series. So there seems to be a bit of obfuscation around this project, first using Black Panther and now hiding them behind a vague title. If they are just going to do their series, name it the Midnight Angels. It sounds cooler.

I don't think the BP: WoW book is intended to be a Midnight Angels book. From what I understand, it'll be a BP book that focuses on BP supporting characters. It just so happens that the MAs (and Zenzi for the first issue) are the focus for the first arc, probably to coincide with their appearance in the main BP book.

They have plenty of options after the first arc. The next arcs can focus on Shuri, Tetu, Changamire, Ramonda, T'Chaka and the Previous Panthers, the Dora Milaje as a unit, characters from the Priest run (Okoye, QDJ, Hunter, Kasper Cole), Taku, or any combination of those characters. Either way, I think it'll be a book in which characters who don't get much shine or don't show up in the main book can have some exposure and development, which is a good thing in the long run for the BP franchise.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on August 01, 2016, 11:13:58 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

I think the first issue will be a big seller, like how Black Panther #1 was a big seller. I don't think see the Midnight Angels book selling as well or higher, but still the first issue should do well. I'm more curious about how it will do after that. I do think it will be interesting to see what audience, if any exists for this book, and if it will be supported by LGBTQ readers, black feminist readers, and white liberals, which I think are the audiences this book might appeal to the most, and will likely need their support to be successful. So I am very curious indeed if the support is there for black/African lesbian characters in stories that take place in Africa.

I mean if a white American lesbian like Batwoman, and that wasn't a bad book from what I read of it, didn't connect with audiences, Marvel is taking a chance with the Midnight Angels. That being said, I can at least give Marvel credit for taking a chance. For years they have been very skittish, but perhaps they realize they are going to have to be more bold (yet largely within the confines of white male control) to reach diverse audiences and to get headlines and buzz.

Though right off it seems like Marvel didn't have super confidence in the Midnight Angels idea because they used Black Panther to set the stage and even their own book is not called Midnight Angels or Ayo & Aneka. World of Wakanda sounds too vague and more like an anthology series. So there seems to be a bit of obfuscation around this project, first using Black Panther and now hiding them behind a vague title. If they are just going to do their series, name it the Midnight Angels. It sounds cooler.

I don't think the BP: WoW book is intended to be a Midnight Angels book. From what I understand, it'll be a BP book that focuses on BP supporting characters. It just so happens that the MAs (and Zenzi for the first issue) are the focus for the first arc, probably to coincide with their appearance in the main BP book.

They have plenty of options after the first arc. The next arcs can focus on Shuri, Tetu, Changamire, Ramonda, T'Chaka and the Previous Panthers, the Dora Milaje as a unit, characters from the Priest run (Okoye, QDJ, Hunter, Kasper Cole), Taku, or any combination of those characters. Either way, I think it'll be a book in which characters who don't get much shine or don't show up in the main book can have some exposure and development, which is a good thing in the long run for the BP franchise.

I would be fine with the book if when T'Challa showed up he was portrayed as he looks in other books he makes guest appearances in tbh
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on August 01, 2016, 11:31:36 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.



Homosexuals beg beg beg for books about them.

Now we will see if they will put their money where their mouth is honestly. And will it being an african couple affect that?

Issue #1 will be SUPER telling.

I think the first issue will be a big seller, like how Black Panther #1 was a big seller. I don't think see the Midnight Angels book selling as well or higher, but still the first issue should do well. I'm more curious about how it will do after that. I do think it will be interesting to see what audience, if any exists for this book, and if it will be supported by LGBTQ readers, black feminist readers, and white liberals, which I think are the audiences this book might appeal to the most, and will likely need their support to be successful. So I am very curious indeed if the support is there for black/African lesbian characters in stories that take place in Africa.

I mean if a white American lesbian like Batwoman, and that wasn't a bad book from what I read of it, didn't connect with audiences, Marvel is taking a chance with the Midnight Angels. That being said, I can at least give Marvel credit for taking a chance. For years they have been very skittish, but perhaps they realize they are going to have to be more bold (yet largely within the confines of white male control) to reach diverse audiences and to get headlines and buzz.

Though right off it seems like Marvel didn't have super confidence in the Midnight Angels idea because they used Black Panther to set the stage and even their own book is not called Midnight Angels or Ayo & Aneka. World of Wakanda sounds too vague and more like an anthology series. So there seems to be a bit of obfuscation around this project, first using Black Panther and now hiding them behind a vague title. If they are just going to do their series, name it the Midnight Angels. It sounds cooler.

I don't think the BP: WoW book is intended to be a Midnight Angels book. From what I understand, it'll be a BP book that focuses on BP supporting characters. It just so happens that the MAs (and Zenzi for the first issue) are the focus for the first arc, probably to coincide with their appearance in the main BP book.

They have plenty of options after the first arc. The next arcs can focus on Shuri, Tetu, Changamire, Ramonda, T'Chaka and the Previous Panthers, the Dora Milaje as a unit, characters from the Priest run (Okoye, QDJ, Hunter, Kasper Cole), Taku, or any combination of those characters. Either way, I think it'll be a book in which characters who don't get much shine or don't show up in the main book can have some exposure and development, which is a good thing in the long run for the BP franchise.

I would be fine with the book if when T'Challa showed up he was portrayed as he looks in other books he makes guest appearances in tbh

And that's fine, I def understand that perspective. That said, the barometer of success for this book shouldn't just be how T'Challa is portrayed, whenever he shows up. If the supporting character don't get good showing along the way, especially if they are the focus of the book, it defeats the book's purpose.

It's no different than the dynamic we've saw with the first arc of the main BP book. A lot of the supporting characters got great looks but if T'Challa doesn't get his along the way when its all said and done, especially as the supposed focus of the book, it defeats the purpose of him having his book.

Lastly, it's possible that the book may focus on characters that may have an unfavorable view of T'Challa (MAs and Zenzi are possibilities of that. Tetu too if they go there, or even Hunter if they ever touch on him). That T'Challa isn't portrayed in the most favorable light would be understandable, being that it's from their perspective (he should still be competent regardless of who's perspective we're reading it from). Hence why it's important for the main BP to balance it out a bit, as it will focus more on T'Challa's perspective.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Salustrade on August 01, 2016, 12:47:14 pm
From this.....

(http://i66.tinypic.com/nd76vl.jpg)


To this.

(http://i63.tinypic.com/rm5s8p.jpg)
(http://i64.tinypic.com/5lz9n5.jpg)

How many points is that for T'Challa again?
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Evasive 1 on August 02, 2016, 04:08:47 pm
LOL! As disappointed I am in Coates right now, I do find it humorous that I am seeing more and more folks on here with the same negative feelings. first, I thought it was just me. Then, I saw there were a few others. Even with the usual ones who stand by whatever writer that comes along and "keep hope alive" regardless of the continuing proof that a writer is not doing justice to the BP mythos, there are more folks not accepting any writer who claims they are fan of BP without proof in writing. I've been on some other forums and Facebook pages all supposedly honoring BP, but alot of the folks there are recent BP fans and have no real concept of how deep the mythos goes. They're all on board with Coates because to them they're just happy there is a black super hero they fell in love with on screen and they believe a black writer of urban social issues is going to do justice to the comic. You wouldn't believe the false facts you still see from supposed BP fans that when someone who has followed the characters for years challenges them they either don't know how to answer or double down in their ignorance. Heck, alot of them never even picked up a comic before Coates showed up. Now this hand picked feminist by Coates is coming along and I am wary as to what honor (or damage) she will do to the BP mythos. It's really disheartening because I want to support black comic writers, but I think Marvel has gotten in the habit of not picking actual comic writers but rather go for a black person known in another venue and throw them at black comic characters regardless of whether that's a character they will take to heart and write well. I guess the idea is as long as they're black, fans (especially black fans) will just roll with it and be happy with what they got. Maybe they're right. I guess the jury is still out.

Anyway, to echo someone's earlier post, I am glad there is the HEF where I can read, discuss or comment with actual longtime and new fans (who read up on BP history even pre-Priest) to have actual meaningful debates and discussions.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: True Father 7 on August 03, 2016, 10:41:26 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.

I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

Coates is the Obama of comic books, lol. Didn't really do anything for black people unless you were gay as Dr. Umar Johnson has built on. What War Machine funeral issue are you referring to and I really need to check out NightHawk
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Ezyo on August 03, 2016, 10:54:32 am
Arc 2 is going to be key for Coates run. If you saw his two most recent interviews they have been the most positive ones to date in regards to T'Challa, and it sounds like he may be coming correct (depending on how well he transitions what he writes and the art to follow it) and having T'challa drive the story more. We will see, i hope he gets it right because at this point i don't think new readers can stand T'Challa not getting a win after 4 issues. 
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: The Wakandan on August 03, 2016, 11:51:47 am
Arc 2 is going to be key for Coates run. If you saw his two most recent interviews they have been the most positive ones to date in regards to T'Challa, and it sounds like he may be coming correct (depending on how well he transitions what he writes and the art to follow it) and having T'challa drive the story more. We will see, i hope he gets it right because at this point i don't think new readers can stand T'Challa not getting a win after 4 issues. 

The underlined is so true, starting with issue 5. If it doesn't happen then, I doubt it'll happen in the next arc.

Only a week away, thankfully.
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: Emperorjones on August 03, 2016, 02:01:58 pm
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.

I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

Coates is the Obama of comic books, lol. Didn't really do anything for black people unless you were gay as Dr. Umar Johnson has built on. What War Machine funeral issue are you referring to and I really need to check out NightHawk

I think it was Sam Wilson Captain America #10. Coates is the comic book industry Obama. Man that's cold.  ;D
Title: Re: HISTORY IS MADE: WORLD OF WAKANDA, A SECOND BLACK PANTHER ONGOING IS ANNOUNCED
Post by: A.Curry on August 04, 2016, 07:19:23 am
In a way I'm glad for this new series because maybe Coates can now focus more on T'Challa and this book gives space for Ayo and Aneka to grow as characters without sucking up so much oxygen in the Panther series.

As for the success of the series I'm skeptical. For one we all know how tough it is traditionally for non-white characters to sell, and its worst for black female characters. Plus the characters are non-American and that's another knock for their saleability.

The homosexual aspect will be interesting to see if that alters how the book will sell. While Batwoman floundered I think Midnighter is still selling, however that might not have any impact on this series do to the racial and nationality makeup of the Midnight Angels.

I will say though that I understand the sentiment about getting Geoff Johns. That one moment with Red Skull was more affirming than anything Coates's has written thus far. Coates to me has turned Black Panther from a potential black (lowercase b) power (lowercase p) power fantasy into a smorgasbord of intriguing ideas but dubious execution that he thinks will appeal to his white liberal friends and bosses. Only Priest and Hudlin have come closest to fulfilling Black Panther's potential to be an Afrofuturistic kick ass title that affirms black life, and inside of that black manhood in a way that many white comics do all the time for various characters.

So far the War Machine funeral issue written by Nick Spencer was one of the 'blackest' comic book issues I've read in a long time. And for the most part Spencer has treated Wilson's Cap with a respect that Coates has not for Black Panther. I recently subscribed to the Cap book to show my support. And while I haven't cared for David Walker's Power Man and Iron Fist, his second issue of Nighthawk hit it on the head in dealing with police brutality. The book has a political consciousness that captures Nighthawk's (black) anger fairly well for a mainstream comic. Why Coates, who made his bones writing about black issues, has yet to come up with something remotely close to that is beyond me. I know he has it in him yet he refuses to put it on the page. Right now is definitely not the time to show the most powerful black man on the planet beaten, on his knees, bleeding, or dithering, unable to defend himself or his people.

Coates is the Obama of comic books, lol. Didn't really do anything for black people unless you were gay as Dr. Umar Johnson has built on. What War Machine funeral issue are you referring to and I really need to check out NightHawk

Lol...kinda funny though one possibly could argue Obama did some things for black people on the low key...like how he diminished a lot of minor sentences for prisoners and freed them (sure a good deal of them were black), appointed black people to certain posts, and other things that were under the guise of helping many.  Agree he Could've done more...but it's not like he could be Huey P. Newton and be president.  Heck, some whites think he's secretly a black nationalist as it is.

Seriously though, Dr. Umar Johnson?  Dude is problematic mostly when it comes to certain arguments.  Saw him at a forum once and he couldn't back up most of his theories with anything more than hyperbole and dismissive rhetoric when questioned by real academics.  As divisive a "prophet" as they come.  Though yes, I know he actually has a PHD.

It's unfortunate though that Coates couldn't address the issues he obviously feels a need to without diminishing T'Challa and Wakanda...as I said before...this could've been done WAY better and more intelligently if he had a better understanding and appreciation for the character and Wakanda.  He could've used the vision of Wakanda and Panther along with the two Doras to address the very REAL gender and queer issues existing in real neighboring African countries instead of having rape camps in Wakanda.

To quote my boy Ture from the "reparations" thread: "Coates' penchant for talking points around monarchies, democracy, feminism, and such can all be read just not at the expense of T'Challa the Black Panther nor Wakanda".

Also agree about Spencer and Sam Wilson...even his writing of Misty Knight is on point...though I do hope sooner or later Sam can go back to or get his own identity without borrowing from the legacy of Cap's name.