Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 06:18:21 am

Title: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 06:18:21 am
Might as well get the thread going.

Hat Tip to The Wakandan for never getting off the internet and getting that preview up ASAP lolol

Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 06:19:12 am
Nice covers for #6 though


(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/92/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/91/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/90/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/89/original/640.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 06:22:04 am
(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/88/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/86/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/85/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/84/original/640.jpg)

(http://i.onionstatic.com/avclub/5957/83/original/640.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: The Wakandan on September 09, 2016, 06:26:49 am
Might as well get the thread going.

Hat Tip to The Wakandan for never getting off the internet and getting that preview up ASAP lolol

I stay logged in lol

(https://media.giphy.com/media/eZuZHWNoyzmXm/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: The Wakandan on September 09, 2016, 06:36:13 am
As for the previews scans themselves:

1. This reaffirms my thoughts on #5 and thus the rest this run: very different "BP story", highly unpredictable (and not always for the better), and a lot of longtime BP fans will strongly have to consider waiting for the big trade with all three volumes and read the story that way or drop the book till at least season 2. Reading it on a issue-to-issue basis may be quite grueling for many longtime fans, considering the content in it so far.

2. This T'Challa/Monarchy vs. MAs/Doras can be resolved with a 30 minute mediated conversation between both parties. I strongly suspect that is how both parties will come to an agreement and focus on Tetu/Zenzi/Zeke Stane. I also suspect Shuri will be the mediator for that meeting once she comes back.

Who would've thought Hudlin's run would've have legit competition in the "most controversial BP run" contest so soon lol.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 06:48:38 am
As for the previews scans themselves:

1. This reaffirms my thoughts on #5 and thus the rest this run: very different "BP story", highly unpredictable (and not always for the better), and a lot of longtime BP fans will strongly have to consider waiting for the big trade with all three volumes and read the story that way or drop the book till at least season 2. Reading it on a issue-to-issue basis may be quite grueling for many longtime fans, considering the content in it so far.

2. This T'Challa/Monarchy vs. MAs/Doras can be resolved with a 30 minute mediated conversation between both parties. I strongly suspect that is how both parties will come to an agreement and focus on Tetu/Zenzi/Zeke Stane. I also suspect Shuri will be the mediator for that meeting once she comes back.

Who would've thought Hudlin's run would've have legit competition in the "most controversial BP run" contest so soon lol.

Hudlin still wins. He brought in a whole other fan base of hate lol.

Coates run seems 100% ignored by other, traditional comic nerds.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: The Wakandan on September 09, 2016, 06:55:24 am
As for the previews scans themselves:

1. This reaffirms my thoughts on #5 and thus the rest this run: very different "BP story", highly unpredictable (and not always for the better), and a lot of longtime BP fans will strongly have to consider waiting for the big trade with all three volumes and read the story that way or drop the book till at least season 2. Reading it on a issue-to-issue basis may be quite grueling for many longtime fans, considering the content in it so far.

2. This T'Challa/Monarchy vs. MAs/Doras can be resolved with a 30 minute mediated conversation between both parties. I strongly suspect that is how both parties will come to an agreement and focus on Tetu/Zenzi/Zeke Stane. I also suspect Shuri will be the mediator for that meeting once she comes back.

Who would've thought Hudlin's run would've have legit competition in the "most controversial BP run" contest so soon lol.

Hudlin still wins. He brought in a whole other fan base of hate lol.

Coates run seems 100% ignored by other, traditional comic nerds.

I'm not too sure about that. I've been listening to many comic book podcasts throughout the past 4-5 months. The BP is often one of the books they review on a consistent basis. Some do say they find the book somewhat boring, but overall the book seems to have a positive impression to them so far.

Def agree with the Hudlin run thing. His haters were legion, lol.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 07:42:53 am
Maybe we will at least see T'challa deliver one of his back hand specials to Changamire please?
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: Ezyo on September 09, 2016, 07:52:37 am
As for the previews scans themselves:

1. This reaffirms my thoughts on #5 and thus the rest this run: very different "BP story", highly unpredictable (and not always for the better), and a lot of longtime BP fans will strongly have to consider waiting for the big trade with all three volumes and read the story that way or drop the book till at least season 2. Reading it on a issue-to-issue basis may be quite grueling for many longtime fans, considering the content in it so far.

2. This T'Challa/Monarchy vs. MAs/Doras can be resolved with a 30 minute mediated conversation between both parties. I strongly suspect that is how both parties will come to an agreement and focus on Tetu/Zenzi/Zeke Stane. I also suspect Shuri will be the mediator for that meeting once she comes back.

Who would've thought Hudlin's run would've have legit competition in the "most controversial BP run" contest so soon lol.

Pretty much, see the problem though is that Coates has to keep supplementing things outside of the book, he has done such a poor job conveying the thoughts and tone in which this story is progressing that he has to explain it in his interviews or podcasts or whatever. Brother MOS brought this up over at the cbr and i agree. No one thought the MA came off like cops using unnecessary lethal force because of how Coates tells it.

Maybe if they had Ramonda tell it from her point of view and have the MA not talk about it it would of worked, or better yet, had
Ramonda and T'Challa talk about it and have T'Challa say along the lines "I sent Aneka and Ayo to the village because i trusted they could handle bringing in a corrupt chieftain to face Wakandan justice for his crimes against his village and the women who reside there, I did not expect the fatigue from suppressing these fires would of so clouded the Judgement of the Dora Milaje captain" Boom, simple, gets the point across that T'Challa Cares    about the plight of women, that he cares what is happened to Aneka, and that he understands more is going on other then finding Zenzi and killing her. Could even have taken it a step further and had T'Challa say, "When this is all said and done perhaps we can set an example for Aneka without more blood being spilled" before Ayo breaks her out and then they go on their No one man spiel. That way, we get both sides, T'Challa was trying to do right and so were the MA, add in the plot twist that Zenzi was also hidden among the women at the time of the attack to spur Aneka on and you have even more protection to excuse her actions a little more followed by adding in that its Aneka's home village and you drive the point home bringing out conflict you understand it from both sides rather then one.

Right now there feels like little hope. Hell even Coates has T'chsalla coming off as sympathetic towards the enemy, rather then saying, "I understand the concerns, however, These acts of terror under the guise of victimization, will not stand and the truth will be revealed" Somethign showing T'Challa as confident, and not seeing Coates constantly slide back into the  T'Challa is doubting himself trope over and over. its been play out from Issue 1 and hasn't stopped and we are half way through the story. its time to show T'Challa "Getting smart, and his plans" that Coates mentioned but never or vaguely showed.   
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 09, 2016, 09:45:31 am
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: Ezyo on September 09, 2016, 11:19:03 am
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

Or you know, any tactical awareness at all.. Jesus i hate to say this but hows Coates is writing BP and Wakanda, I can't see how they managed to hold a 10k undefeated streak under Coates pen and continuity. Spears and Sticks >>>> worlds most advanced tech
#thatsticktoothick
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: Ture on September 09, 2016, 09:22:06 pm
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

LOL!!!

Quote
With this preview, it seems that Coates is continuing his deconstruction of Wakanda. Since he cannot fathom a monarchy in an advanced country, he is changing Wakanda. To him the Doras represent Patriarchy, therefore he is going to change that. Hence "NO ONE MAN." My question is it would have been far more interesting for Coates to have written a story about how such a government could work. A way that the people of his nation have a voice, thrive and flourish.

I have not truly enjoyed Coates' choices in this story. But what bothers me the most is that I do not know what T'Challa really wants. Or what he believes is the best for Wakanda. So far the way Coates has written this story, Monarchs must subjugate is citizens to remain in power since Coates believes that no one from an thriving would want to be a part of any nation without a voice. But this T'Challa so far has no vision. What is he attempting to accomplish? Is he just trying to quell the renegade Doras and stop the revolution? How do you quell a revolution? Coates is giving T'Challa complex problems but where is the genius who would have at least a theory to save his nation? This T'Challa appears to not have a clue.

Where are T'Challa followers who believe in him amongst the nation? This story so far shows a lot of protest and disenchantment with the throne and the only ones that want to keep the status quo appear to be the ones in the seat of power.

And where the hell is Bast? As the Hatut Zeraze stated in the preview, the throne is the embodiment of the Goddess Bast and her nations is coming apart. That is a fundamental part of Wakanda but it is being ignored.



CBR's Taozen

Sums it up pretty well.

Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: Kimoyo on September 09, 2016, 10:01:47 pm
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

LOL!!!

Quote
With this preview, it seems that Coates is continuing his deconstruction of Wakanda. Since he cannot fathom a monarchy in an advanced country, he is changing Wakanda. To him the Doras represent Patriarchy, therefore he is going to change that. Hence "NO ONE MAN." My question is it would have been far more interesting for Coates to have written a story about how such a government could work. A way that the people of his nation have a voice, thrive and flourish.

I have not truly enjoyed Coates' choices in this story. But what bothers me the most is that I do not know what T'Challa really wants. Or what he believes is the best for Wakanda. So far the way Coates has written this story, Monarchs must subjugate is citizens to remain in power since Coates believes that no one from an thriving would want to be a part of any nation without a voice. But this T'Challa so far has no vision. What is he attempting to accomplish? Is he just trying to quell the renegade Doras and stop the revolution? How do you quell a revolution? Coates is giving T'Challa complex problems but where is the genius who would have at least a theory to save his nation? This T'Challa appears to not have a clue.

Where are T'Challa followers who believe in him amongst the nation? This story so far shows a lot of protest and disenchantment with the throne and the only ones that want to keep the status quo appear to be the ones in the seat of power.

And where the hell is Bast? As the Hatut Zeraze stated in the preview, the throne is the embodiment of the Goddess Bast and her nations is coming apart. That is a fundamental part of Wakanda but it is being ignored.



CBR's Taozen

Sums it up pretty well.

Agreed!

No peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 10, 2016, 03:52:31 am
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

Or you know, any tactical awareness at all.. Jesus i hate to say this but hows Coates is writing BP and Wakanda, I can't see how they managed to hold a 10k undefeated streak under Coates pen and continuity. Spears and Sticks >>>> worlds most advanced tech
#thatsticktoothick


And sends the hz in in that flying target right after saying you gave to know your enemy. Yeesh.

Priest panther would have walked into the dora camp, go "treaty to confer", ayo woukd throw the glostick and it woukd just fall to the ground with tchalla hoing "you ddint think id know how to disable my own tech?"

Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: A.Curry on September 10, 2016, 06:48:04 am
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

Or you know, any tactical awareness at all.. Jesus i hate to say this but hows Coates is writing BP and Wakanda, I can't see how they managed to hold a 10k undefeated streak under Coates pen and continuity. Spears and Sticks >>>> worlds most advanced tech
#thatsticktoothick


Except he would call her "beloved" at the end of that question.

Good scene though.

And sends the hz in in that flying target right after saying you gave to know your enemy. Yeesh.

Priest panther would have walked into the dora camp, go "treaty to confer", ayo woukd throw the glostick and it woukd just fall to the ground with tchalla hoing "you ddint think id know how to disable my own tech?"
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: The Evasive 1 on September 13, 2016, 12:37:50 pm
T'challa's genius is once again in full display there.

Has the worlds most advanced weapon's arsenal....

Sends in the HZ in a low flying plane in broad daylight with parachutes...............

If only the HZ had cloaking tech and night vision goggles or something....

LOL!!!

Quote
With this preview, it seems that Coates is continuing his deconstruction of Wakanda. Since he cannot fathom a monarchy in an advanced country, he is changing Wakanda. To him the Doras represent Patriarchy, therefore he is going to change that. Hence "NO ONE MAN." My question is it would have been far more interesting for Coates to have written a story about how such a government could work. A way that the people of his nation have a voice, thrive and flourish.

I have not truly enjoyed Coates' choices in this story. But what bothers me the most is that I do not know what T'Challa really wants. Or what he believes is the best for Wakanda. So far the way Coates has written this story, Monarchs must subjugate is citizens to remain in power since Coates believes that no one from an thriving would want to be a part of any nation without a voice. But this T'Challa so far has no vision. What is he attempting to accomplish? Is he just trying to quell the renegade Doras and stop the revolution? How do you quell a revolution? Coates is giving T'Challa complex problems but where is the genius who would have at least a theory to save his nation? This T'Challa appears to not have a clue.

Where are T'Challa followers who believe in him amongst the nation? This story so far shows a lot of protest and disenchantment with the throne and the only ones that want to keep the status quo appear to be the ones in the seat of power.

And where the hell is Bast? As the Hatut Zeraze stated in the preview, the throne is the embodiment of the Goddess Bast and her nations is coming apart. That is a fundamental part of Wakanda but it is being ignored.



CBR's Taozen

Sums it up pretty well.

Agreed!

No peace,

Mont

Heh. Let's see how many more of us agree with these comments since they were so spot on. And with such artistically sarcastic flare too.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 14, 2016, 06:02:06 am
T'challa actually did get smart here.

I am not sure about the rest of it though but his plan worked on the Stane side of thinks.

But that retcon of one of Priest's best ideas... come on man :(
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion
Post by: MindofShadow on September 14, 2016, 06:32:03 am
Full Spoilers....


Spoilers...

- The book starts with the preview. Wakandan's are rebelling and the world is starting to notice. T'challa sends the HZ to bring order to the Midnight Angels.

- The Dora's and HZ fight. The HZ gain the upper hand before being stricken with grief and they stop fighting. Zenzi and Tetu are there and Zenzi used her powers to stop them.

- Tetu and the MA talk about having each others back essentially. The MA promise to help Tetu when the time comes. The MA take the HZ captive.

- T'challa is talking to Stark about Stane. Stark tells T'challa that he is old school and that he will want to boast to him before winning.

- Then we get the "injection" scene. Like many of us thoughts, it is nanites, specifically the same nanites as Doom used. He uses them to locate the suicide bomber he turned.

- We get the start of some inner monologue about T'challa being a scientist more than anyting else, even more than king. He wants to know things and explore things. Not sit on a thrown with legal stuff.

- Back to the vague Shuri journey which continues to be... incredibly vague and just irritating. I think the general point is, "GIRL POWER!" but god, it just eats up pages and panels that could really be used elsewhere.

- Back to T'challa, who has infiltrated the base of The People. We once again continue the monologue about him being a man of science. In fact, it retcons the "T'challa joins on the Avengers to spy on them," instead replacing it with essentially, "T'challa joins the Avengers to learn." We get more stuff about the kingship being secondary to him, secondary to the scientist.

- T'challa is actually captured. The henchmen should be ashamed that they think hitting him with a rifle would somehow knock out a dude that takes explosions lol. He is brought before Stane.

- Stane then does what Iron Man said... he begins to gloat and explain everything. However, T'challa is recording this all and sending it to his head Wakandan base.

- Hodari is going to release this video, which will show the Wakandan's the true reason for the revolution and remove the curtain.

- Hodari then tells a group of people to go in and do it quietly, despite his reservations for using foreigners. We found out, he is talking to The Crew
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 14, 2016, 06:47:47 am
Could it be really said that he is strictly learning or can it go hand in hand? he was spying while also learning too? If its the former then that is EXTREMELY disappointing and really really stupid considering he could easily do both
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 14, 2016, 07:04:44 am
Just gotta read it and make your own conclusions.

Coates never speaks strictly, easy to understand, straight forward.

I personally think it was a little of both. knowledge is power anyway.

i actually enjoyed the tchalla parts of the issue. The Shuri stuff is awful and the MA/villain stufff was ok. Art wasn't good enough and the fight scene was boring for two of the super elite wakandan forces
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 14, 2016, 09:50:58 am
Just gotta read it and make your own conclusions.

Coates never speaks strictly, easy to understand, straight forward.

I personally think it was a little of both. knowledge is power anyway.

i actually enjoyed the tchalla parts of the issue. The Shuri stuff is awful and the MA/villain stufff was ok. Art wasn't good enough and the fight scene was boring for two of the super elite wakandan forces

I responded on cbr but i'll just copy past it here:

I agree with you on a couple things:

 The Dora Vs HZ fight was incredibly boring and Stale. Though i guess there wasn't much in terms of being able to use tech because they Doras had nothing other the the MA armor. However, it would of been cool to see the HZ not using "Lethal force" as i would expect for T'Challa to not want to kill off the Doras but capture them (the HZ are more then able to do that) though my guess is now there might be some sort of turn where the HZ join the MA due to how they were talking under Zenzi's power.

As for the the inner monologue. I agree its stupid how he retconned T'Challa's reason. He is taking things from priest run, ignoring things dealt with (the wives in training) while taking away from the cool stuff (spying) Though i look at it as he was still spying on them still for his country, and to make sure they weren't a threat as well as getting away and learning. That how i took it atleast (and will continue to do so even if that wasn't the case according to Coates because retconning that is BS to further drive his point/agenda) because it could make sense that he would learn more information from them. [/spoil]

All in all, its Better then the other issues (as was last issue but there are some very stupid things being said and done, or wasted on (Shuri's arc is starting to bore me as well) but there were some nice things about it, more priest-like moments especially towards the end, and T'Challa did get smart some finally, and without some major drawback to follow suit.

My thoughts i am still about 60/40 now (60 doubting Coates will pull through, 40 having some hope) as opposed to 70-80/30-20 as i was before.

Maybe if the next issues has more of the later portion of the issue it might turn out to something decent.  time will tell.

Had a question though who are the [spoil] Fenris Twins? I also wonder if there will be any aliens, cyborgs or mutants to show up as well because thay could atleast make the threat a little more formidable and seem a little more worthy to call in "The Crew"   
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 14, 2016, 10:55:39 am
Just read #6. It wasn't bad at all, imho. Nothing grandiose, but not bad all things considered.

-T'Challa's portrayal was overall good, imho.

-The MA / HZ battle was unexpectedly underwhelming. Sprouse usually does a good job on the action, so I'm not sure if it was Coates guiding him or Sprouse himself going the way he did. Could've been better.

-The portrayal of the MAs, Tetu, and Zenzi were alright.

-Shuri's journey is ok. The stories in the journey themselves aren't bad, but they have to connect to the main plot soon. I can see many people wondering what is the point of her journey. Hopefully we'll get an answer on that.

-Tony's portrayal was good.

-Clever use of the Doomwar Nanites by T'Challa. Good to see him in the offensive too.

-The last panel looked pretty nice.

Overall, this had more positives than negatives. I can see many people looking forward to #7, or at least be curious on how it will go.

I do have one question though: how did the MAs, Tetu, and Zenzi know that the HZ would attack when they did? Is someone feeding them info again?
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 14, 2016, 11:24:08 am


Overall, this had more positives than negatives. I can see many people looking forward to #7, or at least be curious on how it will go.



I am afraid to get optimistic.

We have halfway through the story. T'challa finally did somthing fully competent.

I could really see #7 being the end of Stane as the story shifts back fully to Tetu, Zenzi, and the MA.

#7 is the crew for sure, likely fighting Stane and the twins and their forces.

#8, if the solicits arne't lying, is T'challa going to get Shuri. I would imagine that would take most of the issue

So that leaves 9, 10, and 11 (he said twelve was more of an epilogue right?) to end the story.

I am actually curious how he drags the story out to be honest. Public support of The People should be gone next issue. The Crew and Tchalla likely end Stane's involvement. MA should turn their backs on Tetu after this... so aren't we back ot square 1 all over again?
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 14, 2016, 12:09:04 pm
Again it was a better showing thne what we have seen thus far but yes its far too early to be optimistic right now.
But yes it was better then the other showings and had more postives, I just Wish Coates Agenda wasn't forced down our throats every single issue. I still hate how he worded the avengers and why he joined.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 14, 2016, 01:16:52 pm
Again it was a better showing thne what we have seen thus far but yes its far too early to be optimistic right now.
But yes it was better then the other showings and had more postives, I just Wish Coates Agenda wasn't forced down our throats every single issue. I still hate how he worded the avengers and why he joined.


he is 100% taking T'challa off the throne. 100%.

Dude literally got handed the throne just to lose it one story later.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 14, 2016, 03:29:26 pm


Overall, this had more positives than negatives. I can see many people looking forward to #7, or at least be curious on how it will go.



I am afraid to get optimistic.

We have halfway through the story. T'challa finally did somthing fully competent.

I could really see #7 being the end of Stane as the story shifts back fully to Tetu, Zenzi, and the MA.

#7 is the crew for sure, likely fighting Stane and the twins and their forces.

#8, if the solicits arne't lying, is T'challa going to get Shuri. I would imagine that would take most of the issue

So that leaves 9, 10, and 11 (he said twelve was more of an epilogue right?) to end the story.

I am actually curious how he drags the story out to be honest. Public support of The People should be gone next issue. The Crew and Tchalla likely end Stane's involvement. MA should turn their backs on Tetu after this... so aren't we back ot square 1 all over again?

Yea, no need to get optimistic. This can turn in a very different direction rather quickly.

Your prediction of the upcoming issues seem sound though. The real question may be what happens to the monarchy at issues 11 and 12.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 14, 2016, 03:30:41 pm
Again it was a better showing thne what we have seen thus far but yes its far too early to be optimistic right now.
But yes it was better then the other showings and had more postives, I just Wish Coates Agenda wasn't forced down our throats every single issue. I still hate how he worded the avengers and why he joined.


he is 100% taking T'challa off the throne. 100%.

Dude literally got handed the throne just to lose it one story later.

I think T'Challa will stay King, but just won't have as much authority as before. I suspect there will be some agreement in terms of power sharing.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: stanleyballard on September 14, 2016, 06:55:22 pm
Monarchies thrived in Europe and not Africa so Coates challenge to this actually brings The Black Panther to a true pro black or African style of ruling.  Feel his stories have been complex and rather ambitious - he is definitely willing to take risks and shift as needed shown by the fact T'Challa is clearly front and center now.  Shuri is being developed steadily as the story progresses- more fully fleshed out than before.  Coates has a vision and level of skill that is giving each issue a better tone and pacing.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Booshman on September 15, 2016, 12:00:01 am
Monarchies thrived in Europe and not Africa so Coates challenge to this actually brings The Black Panther to a true pro black or African style of ruling.  Feel his stories have been complex and rather ambitious - he is definitely willing to take risks and shift as needed shown by the fact T'Challa is clearly front and center now.  Shuri is being developed steadily as the story progresses- more fully fleshed out than before.  Coates has a vision and level of skill that is giving each issue a better tone and pacing.

Um...what?

Right off the bat, the Benin Empire (which existed for several centuries) disagrees with that. It was somewhat of a constitutional Monarchy, since the ruling family was kept in check by its council, but it was still a monarchy.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 15, 2016, 04:29:58 am
Monarchies thrived in Europe and not Africa so Coates challenge to this actually brings The Black Panther to a true pro black or African style of ruling.  Feel his stories have been complex and rather ambitious - he is definitely willing to take risks and shift as needed shown by the fact T'Challa is clearly front and center now.  Shuri is being developed steadily as the story progresses- more fully fleshed out than before.  Coates has a vision and level of skill that is giving each issue a better tone and pacing.

I don't agree with the Shuri thing.

She COULD be fleshed out from this... but so far she is just getting a history lesson.

Hudlin invented her, took her from an arrogant teenager, had her kill and it shook her to her core to the point she basically went paris hilton 2.0 instead, she took her T'challa pep start, came back to Wakanda, ended up going in front of bast to get REJECTED for her arrogance, decided to defend her country to the death anyway, became blessed by Bast and Queen, had to control her own blood lust, and became her "own" person instead of just T'challa lite (their ruling styles were not the same, she was more of a throw back).

How are you comparing that to a wordy history lesson?
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: KIP LEWIS on September 15, 2016, 04:45:57 am
Monarchies thrived in Europe and not Africa so Coates challenge to this actually brings The Black Panther to a true pro black or African style of ruling.  Feel his stories have been complex and rather ambitious - he is definitely willing to take risks and shift as needed shown by the fact T'Challa is clearly front and center now.  Shuri is being developed steadily as the story progresses- more fully fleshed out than before.  Coates has a vision and level of skill that is giving each issue a better tone and pacing.

Um...what?

Right off the bat, the Benin Empire (which existed for several centuries) disagrees with that. It was somewhat of a constitutional Monarchy, since the ruling family was kept in check by its council, but it was still a monarchy.

How about the Pharaohs of Egypt?  That was pure control by one man.  (And doesn't Wakanda's origins reach into Egypt?)
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 15, 2016, 04:51:55 am


Your prediction of the upcoming issues seem sound though. The real question may be what happens to the monarchy at issues 11 and 12.

I don't know. I have no idea. I don't think T'challa will be the sole king.

He may have the title, but not the ability to use it as a weapon as he did in Priest's run. It will be nerfed for sure. When Namor ges back, he will just start laughing at him.

I mentioned the Sparta model elsewhere, which with mild modifications, would work best IMO. Gives the people more power but not so much that it 100% nerfs what it means to be king.

What I don't want is a pure democracy and the BP title becomes a "protector only" type of a title. I don't want T'challa to have someone who can boss him around essentially. That woudl open up SOME story telling possibilities (new president or whatever wants T'challa to take out someone who T'challa does not want to) but that just seems to tread on Captain America territory.

So idk... IMO, the most logical conclusion and the best for the future of the franchise is that T'challa and Shuri rule, and after all this the Wakandan's realize how blessed they are to have such strong, powerful leaders blessed by a God. But I find that 100% unlikely... something is changing for sure.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 15, 2016, 05:53:52 am


Your prediction of the upcoming issues seem sound though. The real question may be what happens to the monarchy at issues 11 and 12.

I don't know. I have no idea. I don't think T'challa will be the sole king.

He may have the title, but not the ability to use it as a weapon as he did in Priest's run. It will be nerfed for sure. When Namor ges back, he will just start laughing at him.

I mentioned the Sparta model elsewhere, which with mild modifications, would work best IMO. Gives the people more power but not so much that it 100% nerfs what it means to be king.

What I don't want is a pure democracy and the BP title becomes a "protector only" type of a title. I don't want T'challa to have someone who can boss him around essentially. That woudl open up SOME story telling possibilities (new president or whatever wants T'challa to take out someone who T'challa does not want to) but that just seems to tread on Captain America territory.

So idk... IMO, the most logical conclusion and the best for the future of the franchise is that T'challa and Shuri rule, and after all this the Wakandan's realize how blessed they are to have such strong, powerful leaders blessed by a God. But I find that 100% unlikely... something is changing for sure.

Agreed. The way things are going, there is a strong chance that a change in government is in the horizon, not to mention that Coates himself has issues on Wakanda having a monarchy in the first place.

I remember Ezyo and I discussing if Wakanda would end up with a modified Diarchy system that is similar to what you are proposing: T'Challa and Shuri are co-rulers with more specified tasks that matches who they are, and the tribal council representing all of the Tribes/regions are a democratically elected body who has much more influence this time around. The council for example can serve as a check to the co-rulers in certain cases.

I feel that such a system will give Coates what he wants in terms of the people having a much bigger voice in Wakandan governance and reenforcing Wakanda as a more equal society gender wise (Coates perception, not mine) by having Shuri as a co-ruler with Authority.

Meanwhile, the longtime fans and like-minded individuals get a lot of what they want: the monarchy is still around. The monarchy still has a lot of authority. T'Challa himself is still king with official authority, perhaps the highest in the land still, save the co-ruler. He's still a head of state with all the perks that comes with it and can use them in stories focused outside of Wakanda, if needed.

It's not perfect and I'd much prefer that things stay the way they are, but change will happen whether I want to or not. Given the choice, I would much rather have the modified Diarchy plan or MoS's proposal, rather than a full-fledged democracy or a constitutional monarchy, which could definitely happen.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 15, 2016, 06:04:12 am
I imagine Changamire being voted some sort of prime minister of sorts and being a pain in T'challa's ass over the next 5 years
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 15, 2016, 08:12:11 am
I imagine Changamire being voted some sort of prime minister of sorts and being a pain in T'challa's ass over the next 5 years

Changamire as prime minister? Lol, good lord.

I see some storytelling opportunities in that.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 15, 2016, 08:16:01 am
I imagine Changamire being voted some sort of prime minister of sorts and being a pain in T'challa's ass over the next 5 years


(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/y3PWaHz.gif)

I can see that happening, or something with the MA. Which sends the message, act out and you could get a promotion.

I would like a Diarchy system if it comes down to it with T'Challa and Shuri co leading, of they dispute Queen Mother Ramonda acts as a mediator, and if a decision Still can't be made, a democracy like council can weigh in and vote, and they act as the voice of the citizens. Even if the monarch stayed the same it think it would be good to give Shuri done form of authority so that When T'Challa is not in Wakanda, she can make decisions so these annoying coups can die off for awhile

Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: The Wakandan on September 15, 2016, 08:54:47 am
I imagine Changamire being voted some sort of prime minister of sorts and being a pain in T'challa's ass over the next 5 years


([url]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/y3PWaHz.gif[/url])


LOL!

Quote
I can see that happening, or something with the MA. Which sends the message, act out and you could get a promotion.


Hmm, good point there. I do wonder what will happen to them in the end.

Quote
I would like a Diarchy system if it comes down to it with T'Challa and Shuri co leading, of they dispute Queen Mother Ramonda acts as a mediator, and if a decision Still can't be made, a democracy like council can weigh in and vote, and they act as the voice of the citizens. Even if the monarch stayed the same it think it would be good to give Shuri done form of authority so that When T'Challa is not in Wakanda, she can make decisions so these annoying coups can die off for awhile [/size][/b]


I forgot to include Ramonda into the decision making process. Good idea.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 15, 2016, 10:19:08 am
I imagine Changamire being voted some sort of prime minister of sorts and being a pain in T'challa's ass over the next 5 years

Changamire as prime minister? Lol, good lord.

I see some storytelling opportunities in that.

I think i'd forgive Coates for everything to see T'challa just straight back hand Changamire
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 16, 2016, 04:33:49 pm
So. Issue6.

 These Fenris Twins, are they X-villains? I remember them from the Ultimate X-Men comic (the only X-Men brand I could stomach). Did Coates really write X-Crap into the Black Panther comic, X-villians as the ones behind some of the major ills behind Wakanda?

I mean, we all knew these guy really loves the X-Men. He said so, and said he wasn't excited about BP. Buuuuuuuuut no! Couldn't just just BP lore. Shove it more with X-lore. Cause the X-fans love Panther so much.

Or maybe this was his way of trying to ease out some of the damage he's done? I dunno, but Coates is slowly, slowly moving into the spot that Mayberry holds for me as the most damaging thing to happen to BP.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 16, 2016, 04:43:18 pm
How T'Challas character should of started from the beginning of thrseries

http://www.cbr.com/black-panther-7-3/ (http://www.cbr.com/black-panther-7-3/)

Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 16, 2016, 05:03:39 pm
Little to late I would say.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: KIP LEWIS on September 17, 2016, 07:04:59 am
So. Issue6.

 These Fenris Twins, are they X-villains? I remember them from the Ultimate X-Men comic (the only X-Men brand I could stomach). Did Coates really write X-Crap into the Black Panther comic, X-villians as the ones behind some of the major ills behind Wakanda?

I mean, we all knew these guy really loves the X-Men. He said so, and said he wasn't excited about BP. Buuuuuuuuut no! Couldn't just just BP lore. Shove it more with X-lore. Cause the X-fans love Panther so much.

Or maybe this was his way of trying to ease out some of the damage he's done? I dunno, but Coates is slowly, slowly moving into the spot that Mayberry holds for me as the most damaging thing to happen to BP.

Fernis Twins might have started in X-Men, but they float around.  they are really Hydra/Nazi white supremists villains.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 17, 2016, 11:32:00 am
Ok. I was wondering. I'm not to up to date on Old school X stuff (honestly, nor do I care especially after seeing how racist the X office was in the past and how the X fans can still be). So they were created in X-Nen, but became villains that migrated around in other books. Okay. Less rage.

Not by much. But it's still there, mind you, lol.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: KIP LEWIS on September 17, 2016, 12:04:49 pm
Ok. I was wondering. I'm not to up to date on Old school X stuff (honestly, nor do I care especially after seeing how racist the X office was in the past and how the X fans can still be). So they were created in X-Nen, but became villains that migrated around in other books. Okay. Less rage.

Not by much. But it's still there, mind you, lol.

The worst part is they are lame.  The only staying power they have is they are Baron Strucker's kids. 
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 17, 2016, 12:43:18 pm
That is worse. Wakanda being overan by wack discarded X-villains. Ugh. And Coates is staying on for a second season.....
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 17, 2016, 12:45:25 pm
Honestly I want to see T'Challa take on promixa midnight, him and Shuri tag team and take them down. I think that would be cool.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 17, 2016, 01:28:47 pm
We'll probably see something like that in the Ultimates faster than the solo.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Ezyo on September 17, 2016, 02:27:45 pm
We'll probably see something like that in the Ultimates faster than the solo.

Is it weird to day that if Coates actually wasn't pushing a certain agenda that he would actually be a pretty decent Bp scribe? Like if he was going a building up to why T'Challa and Wakanda are great?
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Blanks on September 17, 2016, 03:53:37 pm
I guess we'll never know. The man came in an agenda, and that agenda was never for T'Challa. It for his anti-man, anti-black futurist mindset he has. He is so stuck to the provertable shackles that he can't see the deservice he's not only doing to BP fans, but to upcoming black readers new and old, and to himself.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Kimoyo on September 17, 2016, 04:50:21 pm

Fernis Twins might have started in X-Men, but they float around.  they are really Hydra/Nazi white supremists villains.

Weren't they referenced in the MCU; Avengers AoU?

Peace,

Mont
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: KIP LEWIS on September 17, 2016, 06:21:38 pm

Fernis Twins might have started in X-Men, but they float around.  they are really Hydra/Nazi white supremists villains.

Weren't they referenced in the MCU; Avengers AoU?

Peace,

Mont

I don't think so; the twins there are Wanda and Pietro.  But I might be wrong.
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: MindofShadow on September 17, 2016, 08:36:29 pm
No, the twins were Peter and Wanda
Title: Re: Black Panther #6 SPOILERS and Discussion [spoilers on post 17]
Post by: Kimoyo on September 17, 2016, 08:47:16 pm
I have to watch it again.  I thought they mentioned the Fenris as subjects other than Pietro and Wanda?

Peace,o

Mont