I'm happy to see writers acknowledging LCFO and Kwame Ture, while so many were incorrectly crediting Marvel with influencing The Black Panther Party. The only time I respond to it is on here because I know you brothers are serious about your fandom.
A shortened version of the symbol's American origin: 1Clark College emblem-2Kwame Ture-3Huey P. Newton/Bobby Seale.
I'm a brother.
Here's some additional info-
December 1965: Lowndes County Freedom Organization
([url]https://newafrikan77.files.wordpress.com/2019/02/5321bfde-65ca-4a94-91e8-d893d334042e.jpeg[/url])
Black voters in Lowndes County, Alabama, using a provision in state law, form an independent political party: the Lowndes County Freedom Organization (also known as the Black Panther Party). The party fields a slate of 7 candidates for county offices in the November 1966 general election.
Until 1965, not one black person was registered to vote in Lowndes, though blacks made up 80% of the county's population. By October 1965 -- following a series of voter registration drives and the enactment of the Voting Rights Act in August -- nearly half the black population had registered to vote.
-- Image from LCFO pamphlet: @
-- Note: The LCFO based its symbol on the Panther mascot of Clark College in Atlanta, Georgia. In turn, the Black Panther Party for Self-Defense (formed in October 1966), took its name and symbol from the LCFO.
[url]http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/473.html[/url] ([url]http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/473.html[/url])
[url]https://zinnedproject.org/materials/lowndes-county-and-the-voting-rights-act/[/url] ([url]https://zinnedproject.org/materials/lowndes-county-and-the-voting-rights-act/[/url])
From Kwame Ture-
The 1965 Voting Rights Act passed in the wake of Selma dramatically began to boost the number of black registered voters. And a unique Alabama law encouraged creation of county-level political parties. The law stipulated you had to have a symbol because of the high rate of illiteracy, recalls Kwame. Well, the Democratic Party symbol was a white rooster, the white cock party we used to call it. A panther became the new party’s symbol...almost accidentally.
Courtland [Cox] came to Atlanta and asked me to design a business card with an emblem for the party, recalls Ruth Howard Chambers. I came up with a dove. Nobody thought that worked and someone said I should look at the Clark College emblem. It was a panther and that’s where the panther came from. Somebody up there traced it on a piece of paper for me. In Lowndes County that pouncing black panther gave instant visibility to the newly-formed Lowndes County Freedom Organization as the Black Panther Party. The new party’s slogan: Power for black people.
Almost immediately, the black panther leapt out of the state. When a volunteer from Oakland, California working in Lowndes county returned home, Huey P. Newton and Bobby Seale asked for permission to use the emblem for the Black Panther Party they had decided to form.
[url]https://libraries.ucsd.edu/farmworkermovement/ufwarchives/sncc/13-June%201966.pdf[/url] ([url]https://libraries.ucsd.edu/farmworkermovement/ufwarchives/sncc/13-June%201966.pdf[/url])
[url]http://www.southerncourier.org/hi-res/Vol2_No20_1966_05_14.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.southerncourier.org/hi-res/Vol2_No20_1966_05_14.pdf[/url])
(https://i.imgur.com/YkNKwXX.jpg)
>>> Supreme
How 'bout this one? :)(https://i.imgur.com/ALqkmBd.jpg)
>>> Supreme
(https://i.imgur.com/C6g3EoL.gif)
YOOO. I called you, brutha. Hmu. 562-513-8339. Any other cool HEFfa can call me, too.
Unlike most “-gate” scandals, there wasn’t one thing that kicked off Comicsgate, a name attached organically and has trended throughout 2017. Unlike its ancestor Gamergate, the demands by Comicsgate are unclear. Sure, Gamergate began when a guy got mad at his ex, but it at least pretended to aspire to something bigger in its call for “ethics in gamming journalism.” Comicsgate, meanwhile, seems to just want less diversity, both in characters and creators, in an attempt to save comics and keep the medium white, male, and familiar. That’s it.
I remember hearing comments like this before the movie even came out. I even attended an after movie discussion at which the confusion to express one's opinion on how exploitative the Marvel company was in producing the Black Panther that it bordered on insanity. Fortunately for every one of those there were literally thousands singing its praises and millions that were uplifted.
This also reminds me of some of the flack Beyonce is getting from certain quarters on her visual album Black is King. At times there appears to be some anti Afrakan sentiment behind those kinds of criticisms.
I feel you on being caught between the extremes Emperorjones.
Look I lived thru the 80's and pretty much every film back then didn't hide its pro imperialistic message.
Just look at Stallone's body of work. Hell even the Star Wars prequels were supposed to be an anti Bush allegory, but peeps were so unhappy with the movies that they didn't care what Lucas was trying to say about the Bush Administration they were just wondering what he was trying to say about the Jedi ( which is par for the course).
All movies ( and all art period ) are political but it's only an issue when the viewer doesn't like the message.
Anyone remember hom much mileage Marvel and DC got our of their very special "Drugs are Bad" issues back in the day?
Everyone does message stuff.
For anyone claiming Black Panther's message is somehow problematic while ignoring that the Iron Man and Batman films posit that it would be best to allow the driven rich guys run everything is simply hypocritical. And racist on its face, imo.
For some time I ignored or gave a cursory once over to articles I thought were unnecessarily deriding the Black Panther movie but now... well into the era of BP dominance, it might be fun to take a look see with my fellow BP enthusiasts.
15 reasons why Black Panther is a nationalist, xenophobic, colonial and racist movie
Black Panther was greatly hyped as a ground breaking action movie that redefined the representation of black people in Hollywood. Yet perhaps it’s time for some thorough analysis and criticism. There's a whole list of reasons why Black Panther doesn't really challenge the norms and instead amplifies prejudices and stereotypes. Even more so: its underlying message is, in many ways, quite problematic.
By Jonas Slaats
A couple of weeks after the great hype had toned down, I finally went to see Black Panther. Intrigued as I was about the grand way in which the movie was hailed as some sort of liberation theology for black people, I refused to read any reviews and let the movie speak for itself. Could it really live up to the proposed breach of ‘Hollywood whiteness’? Was it truly such a “dope-ass black movie” as anti-racist television personality Trevor Noah made it seem to be in his Daily Show? Or was it yet another bizarre twist of consumer culture that lured people into thinking this was a norm changing movie even though it actually offered an overdose of those norms?
As it turned out, the latter was the case. With every minute of movie, my sense of disbelief became greater and finally ended in the certainty that this was a nationalist, xenophobic, colonial and racist movie.
Surfing around on the net afterwards, I quickly realized I wasn’t alone. For example, an article by Kenian political cartoonist Patrick Gathara on the website of the Washington Post, offered some very relevant, thorough arguments. It described how “at heart, it is a movie about a divided, tribalized continent, discovered by a white man who wants nothing more than to take its mineral resources, a continent run by a wealthy, power-hungry, feuding and feudalist elite, where a nation with the most advanced tech and weapons in the world nonetheless has no thinkers to develop systems of transitioning rulership that do not involve lethal combat or coup d’etat.”
Gathara goes on to explain how Black Panther, with a typical Victorian slant, portrays Africans as primitive yet in harmony with
nature, not faced by the complexities of modernity; how the Wakandans technological advancement, apparently still doesn’t make them sophisticated enough to prevent a single American from overtaking the country; and how it thus eventually tells a neocolonial story about somewhat childish people who need a strong guiding hand to lead them.
As Kif Kif predominantly publishes Dutch articles,
our English articles can also be read on our English only Medium magazine.
As such, it’s painful to see how blinding a shiny neoliberal story about ‘triumphing blackness’ can be. Give people some feel-good popcorn and any critical analysis, seems to be thrown into the trashcan faster than anyone can even gobble up the Kool-Aid. So, to strengthen the case of an alternative view, I simply would like to add the following list of 15 reasons why Black Panther is rather problematic.
First, the obvious things…
1. The bluntly racist images: Not only does the movie end with African tribes fighting each other with spears, clubs and machetes but the men of the ‘strong tribe’ in Wakanda dress like monkeys and literally make oo-oo-oo sounds. Sure, the latter might perhaps be part of the original comics as well, but that doesn’t imply one is obliged to transfer the exact same imagery to the movie. If someone were to make a movie of Tintin in Africa and used the same old imagery ‘because the comic portrayed Africans in that way’, we’d all take offence and rightfully so because the images from that comic book are now considered to be racist. In a very similar manner the portrayal of M’Baku in the original Black Panther comics has also been problematic from the start.
2. The duality of ‘good blacks’ vs. ‘bad blacks’: The good guys are authentic, pristine Africans, who still live in harmony with nature. The bad guy is your typical ‘black boy from the hood’. As such, tapping deep into the typical colonial imagery of the ‘unspoiled primitive’ the ‘good’ black is the romanticized and completely idealized black. The ‘bad black’, on the other hand, is simply the contemporary and ‘real life’ black American.
3. The comparisons with the Lion King: The narrative similarities with the Lion King are painfully obvious: the king of the pristine and glorious land, is betrayed by his Uncle/Nephew, after which the new king is banished, yet he returns and with the help of his lioness(es) and warrior monkey(s), he’s saved. It only lacked a remix of the song The Circle of Life to make the message complete: Africa = savanna.
4. The crude portrayal of voodoo and its importance for the story: What makes Black Panther so strong is not his skill or his brains. (In fact, when ‘simply human’ he loses the fight quite often.) Rather, what makes him strong is some sort of voodoo trick involving plants, shamanism and a drug which makes your veins literally black as if you’re possessed by a Demon — which eventually the Black Panther is, since you can just as well ‘exorcise’ him with some counter-voodoo. And of course, the viewer won’t find any references to deeper philosophy, mythology or theology of genuine Ifá. No, the viewer only gets to see the crudest archetypical Hollywood portrayal of voodoo-as-black-magic.
Then, the somewhat more hidden stuff
5. The strange message of the futuristic element: There is no need to attack the genuine cultural phenomenon of afrofuturism at large, but what I found at least a bit bizarre from the start of the Black Panther hype was the craze for the fact that finally there was a movie about blacks who were technologically advanced. When the whole movie is about a mysterious country that pretends to be poor and outwardly projects a typical image of a third world country while underneath its surface lies some incredibly advanced technology, the eventual message simply seems to be this: “See, underneath every seemingly primitive African hides a (possible) modern Westerner!”
6. The contrasting morality of blacks and whites: All black protagonists are morally ambivalent. King T’Chaka, is a good king and father but hides his mistake, general Okoye is very loyal but because of her loyalty goes through a conflict of conscience when Killmonger takes over, the border guard W’Kabi is strong and adamant, but eventually chooses to follow Killmonger when the latter comes to power, king T’Challa has a good and wise heart but has many doubts throughout the movie. Even N’Jobu, who betrayed king T’Chaka, only did so because he was genuinely aggrieved by the plight of African Americans. The same is true for his son: he’s power hungry and aggressive yet also hides a deep love for his father and upholds a sincere wish to free ‘his people’. The only non-ambivalent characters are the two whites. Ulysses is pure evil and Everett is pure goodness. Concerning the latter, even though he’s a CIA agent, his motives are never questioned, his past is irrelevant and his dominant personality trait is one of ‘cute naive innocence’. He not only selflessly saves a life half way through the movie, but in the end also saves the world (since he stops the war planes from reaching their destination).
The only non-ambivalent characters are the two whites.
7. The seemingly subversive but eventually not so impressive flips of gender roles: In Wakanda, women are seemingly strong. But eventually there’s no question whatsoever that the men are the kings and the women (even when they’re fierce warriors or genius scientific whizz-kids) are on a constant lookout for a man who can help them. As such, general Okoye still needs the guidance of a righteous leader and princess Shuri needs someone to fly her plane. The only ones taking matters truly into their own hands (i.e. without following orders or loyalties) are men.
8. The role of vibranium (and how it’s the only thing that makes Wakanda ‘advanced’): When Wakanda is an advanced technological country, it’s not because of their inherent intelligence or their approach to society. It’s a ‘coincidence’ and has everything to do with a special resource: vibranium. (It’s also taken for granted they do not wish to share this resource with the rest of the world and that as such it will not only lead to technological advancement but also to conflict.)
9. The convoluted relation between tradition and power: In Wakanda, the traditions of old are seemingly revered as holy. But when the King loses in a fair fight, all of the sudden, anything goes. He can breach traditions and retake his power simply because he’s ‘the good guy’. So eventually there is no sanctity of tradition at all. It’s simply about power. The colonial undertone should be clear: ‘Africans are stuck in their traditions. They should abandon them, because power is what truly makes the world go round.’ This becomes amply clear in T’Challa’s relation with Killmonger. One of T’Challa’s great grievances is the fact that his father left a Wakandan kid behind in ‘the hood’ and did not try to save him from his lot (which, of course, could apparently do nothing but make him aggressive). Yet killing that same kid simply because he’s not likeable when he’s a bit older is seemingly OK — even though Killmonger won the traditional battle fair and square. Though morally completely inconsistent, it does remain very consistent with the already mentioned dichotomy of the ‘good’ (pristine African) blacks and ‘bad’ (hoody) blacks. And of course, the ‘bad’ blacks by definition want to take over the world because they hate whites — so they have to be stopped, no matter what tradition or morality dictates.
The colonial undertone should be clear: ‘Africans are stuck in their traditions. They should abandon them, because power is what truly makes the world go round.’
10. The dominance of the underlying myth of the hero: The most classical structure of probably 99% of all blockbuster Hollywood movies is the classical ‘myth of the hero’. The hero who first felt small but received support from a wise man; the hero who travels and conquers dangers; the hero who confronts his darkest fears in an epic battle for evil; the hero who not only saves himself but also the world. Although it’s a universal story, in modern Western culture it’s so dominant that it seemingly became the only way to tell an exciting story. Just compare, for example, Disney hits with, for example, some Japanese anime hits from studio Gibli. The latter are full of more Buddhist themes and as such often stray from the typical myth of the hero pattern. In various African cultures as well, other mythical patterns and archetypes can be found in the traditional storytelling. However, Black Panther is, from start to finish, the purest form of the hero myth. Even the previous Avenger movies such as The Winter Soldier and Civil War breached the pattern more (having the superheroes fighting each other). Yet in Black Panther there’s no single cultural change or breach of this subconscious hero pattern. As a result, there’s also no trace whatsoever of philosophical concepts like Ubuntu or the morality underlying the well-known South-African truth-commissions. There is only one simple plot: a dualism of good vs. evil and a hero who saves the day because he fights bravely and eventually crushes evil in an antagonistic fight.
11. The Westernization of Wakanda as a result of the hero myth: Eventually the journey of the hero leads to Wakanda becoming a ‘modern state’ like Western states. After the fights have been settled and all is said and done, Wakanda becomes more open (read: less protectionist and thus more neoliberal). It also portrays a tendency to go and ‘save others’ through outreach programs. All in all then, the whole ‘technological advancement’ of Wakanda was nothing but a shallow layer. Eventually the story is still about a ‘not so modern’ country that needs to be ‘modernized’ by a King more in contact with the West.
And finally, the most disconcerting xenophobic and nationalist issues
12. The supremacy of nationalism: Just like any other successful blockbuster, the cinematic tension isn’t simply built on the action and special effects, but also on a couple of moral dilemmas which define the relationships between the protagonists and ignite the dynamics of the story. The first moral dilemma in Black Panther, which surfaces in various forms, is between love for a person and love for a nation. One example is how T’Challa and Nakia apparently can’t marry because of T’Challa’s loyalty to his kingdom and Nakia’s wish to help those outside the country. They only find a solution in T’Challa giving state subsidies to Nakia’s work. A second and even more explicit example is played out between Okoye and W’Kabi. Which of the two types of love should be held high is made most obvious when they confront each other in battle: “You would kill me my love?” W’Kabi asks. Okoye unflinchingly answers: “For Wakanda? Without question.” Hence, nationalism is the main ideology of Wakandans. The nation state is supreme and should receive the highest love of its citizens. Even though the concept of nation states is a product of modern, Western culture, the question is never asked what a traditional Wakandan view of society might be. Nationalist ideals are taken for granted and they’re only threatened when Wakandans fall in love or when they ‘relapse’ into tribalism.
13. The antagonism of state and race: The second moral dilemma which surfaces throughout the movie is between ‘loyalty to the state’ and ‘being the leader of ‘the cause’ — the cause being ‘the effort to save other blacks’. In short: a dilemma between state and race. Apparently Wakanda doesn’t have any other cultural or traditional approach to these matters. The elite of the country hold very similar ideas as white nationalist elites which have a long history of societal dilemmas between ‘protecting their country’ and ‘protecting mankind from barbarians/primitive races/terrorists/…’
The nation state is supreme and should receive the highest love of its citizens. Even though the concept of nation states is a product of modern, Western culture, the question is never asked what a traditional Wakandan view of society might be. Nationalist ideals are taken for granted and they’re only threatened when Wakandans fall in love or when they ‘relapse’ into tribalism.
14. The projection of typical white xenophobic fears: Following from the two previous moral dilemmas, the typical xenophobia of Western whites has been fully projected onto blacks. The Wakandan elites don’t want to open the borders of their country for refugees because they want to preserve the ‘purity’ of their pristine country and culture. It even instituted Frontex and USBP style border patrols. There actually aren’t many blockbuster movies where such a contemporary form of xenophobia (rampant in Europe and the US) is so explicitly, consistently and straightforwardly portrayed. Yet once it does take center stage and becomes a central part of the critique within an action movie aimed at a broad public, apparently it’s something black people are culpable of. (Also interesting in this respect: in all their fear to preserve their ‘pristine’ Wakandan nature and culture, apparently their technological advancements are of no concern whatsoever. For some magical reason, their technology simply doesn’t seem to have any impact on their nature or culture. I guess vibranium is by definition ‘clean vibranium’ — just like Tump’s mythical concept of ‘clean coal’.)
15. The blackwashed white savior complex: When a solution for the dilemmas of ‘personal relations’ vs. ‘state loyalty’ and ‘race’ vs. ‘state’ is eventually found, that solution exists in ‘outreach’. Why not truly open Wakanda, bring in all the refugees and show that another society is possible? Why not start sharing knowledge and technology with other African countries to make them economically stronger and thus break the true strength of the former colonialists and current neocolonialists? No, the only option is to act exactly like the (neo)colonizer: take pity with a group of downtrodden people in a faraway country, collect some money ‘for the poor’ and then missionize, patronize and civilize. As such, the outreach programs are also by definition oriented on blacks who are in need of help (the ‘bad blacks from the hood’ who need to be turned into ‘good blacks’), even though Wakanda could just as well start outreach programs among whites, for example, to decolonize their minds.
So, to conclude
Sure, representation in Hollywood matters. Sure, we need more black heroes. Sure, we need more strong female characters. But in the end, Black Panther is nothing but a racist, colonial, xenophobic movie. It’s a distinctly Western technology worshipping myth of the hero. It’s blackwashed white nationalism.
So now the hype has gone, perhaps it’s time for some thorough analysis and criticism. No, we shouldn’t applaud this type of movie because it has some cool black women warriors and a shiny afrofuturist Panther King. Quite the contrary, we should strongly resist such neoliberal efforts to commodify, commercialize and privatize the anti-racist struggle.
https://kifkif.be/cnt/artikel/15-reasons-why-black-panther-nationalist-xenophobic-colonial-and-racist-movie-6036
1393
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(https://www.stashmedia.tv/wp-content/uploads/ssshot12-640x360.jpg)
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/q-EW4-B11hw/hqdefault.jpg)
Play it from here.
https://youtu.be/q-EW4-B11hw (https://youtu.be/q-EW4-B11hw)
courtesy of CBR's Pumbaa
This is who fans want to replace Chadwick Boseman as the Black Panther
By Chris Smith
One of the obvious choices would be to recast a different actor as T’Challa/Black Panther. But it’s unlikely that fans would appreciate such a move. It would also be incredibly difficult for a different actor to accept the role. Boseman is T’Challa, and his Black Panther should be honored by not giving the part to a different actor, even if Boseman’s passing causes issues for Marvel’s plans.
full article
https://bgr.com/2020/09/13/marvel-movies-black-panther-2-chadwick-boseman-replacement-options/
What Should Come Next for Black Panther after Loss of Boseman
Reuters news agency reported this story. Alice Bryant
Writers, professors and activists spoke to Reuters news agency about the cultural importance of the movie and Boseman’s performance. Some said Marvel should honor Boseman by retiring the character of T’Challa and choosing another character to name as Black Panther.
full article
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/what-should-come-next-for-black-panther-after-loss-of-boseman/5575842.html
Disney Has Reportedly Decided On How To Proceed With Black Panther 2
By Scott Campbell
According to our intel, the plan at the moment is for T’Challa to be written out of Black Panther 2 before the story starts as he’ll apparently die off-screen. Shuri will then assume the mantle and become Wakanda’s new protector on a permanent basis.
full article
https://wegotthiscovered.com/movies/disney-reportedly-decided-proceed-black-panther-2/
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/3d/5f/b6/3d5fb68a3e60e00ed25c3f122256085e.jpg)
IS THIS WHAT FANS REALLY WANT?!?
Not being disrespectful to Chadwick because he gave us a great T'Challa but the role has to be recast. I don't expect anyone who takes the role to be the same as Chad but they shouldn't be afraid of it either. If anything they should be inspired by what Chadwick has done. We're all feeling some kind of way now and some want to put T'Challa on the shelf. I can't speak for Chad but does anyone honestly think that he would want a character as powerful and inspirational as T'Challa just put aside?That just doesn't seem right.
If anything we need T'Challa to inspire more young black kids to be heroes. Just because we have Shuri doesn't mean we need to lose T'Challa.
courtesy of CBR's Marvell2100
Yea I disagree. These are characters, immortal concepts and representations of things and ideas that actors bring to life. It's not easy or fun but replacing a character in the an ongoing continuity isn't nearly as much of an issue if the actor and script are up to par, at least for me.
Like I said, this is a golden age of comic adaptations. T'Challa deserves to be at the forefront of this cultural zeitgeist before he gets phased out for Shuri or Kaspar Cole. Anything other than that is a missed opportunity with potential consequences in other mediums.
courtesy of CBR's chief12d
I'll say this about recasting T'Challa in the MCU...I personally think Disney SHOULD recast T'Challa. Because so far, he already "died" in his solo movie, then was "resurrected" later in the movie and reclaimed his kingdom, THEN died FOR REAL when he got snapped by Thanos in Infinity War, then got resurrected FOR REAL when he came back through the portal in End Game, thus regaining his kingdom. It would look extremely foolish for Disney to now kill the character off YET AGAIN and thereby have him lose his kingdom YET AGAIN. How many times are they going to kill this black man?
Also, if Disney does not recast T'Challa, then they would be setting up a dangerous precedence, because God forbid, what if other actors and actresses portraying major characters in the MCU pass away? Are they not going to recast those characters and kill those characters off as well, especially if those characters' story arcs aren't complete? If they do, it would look odd. If they don't recast T'Challa, but recast those other major characters, it would also look odd.
In addition, T'Challa himself in the MCU was/is a major inspiration to a lot of people because of the Black Panther movie, and I don't feel as though you permanently kill off a character like that, knowing how important he is to a lot of people, especially kids.
I also think it's odd that some people on certain sites can't fathom having T'Challa be portrayed by anyone other than Chadwick Boseman. It's definitely sad that Chadwick has transitioned, but to act as though no other black man can ever portray T'Challa because that actor might not be as good at it as Chadwick was, is baffling to me. Because now we're talking about denying other black actors the opportunity to portray T'Challa, who is such an iconic character.
That's almost like saying, "Well, I loved the way this particular writer wrote Black Panther in his solo series, but since the writer passed away, I really can't see anyone else writing T'Challa as well as HE did, therefore, I don't think anyone else should write T'Challa in his own solo book, because the writing of T'Challa might not be as good. So let's replace T'Challa in his own book with Shuri, or another character!"
courtesy of CBR's MoneySpider
If they don't recast MCU Panther, my Black Panther fandom may die with Chadwick.
BP's comics suck. He isn't in the limited Marvel video games yet and if he isn't int he movies anymore, they will stop even having him in DLC stuff. They will have the replacement.
I guess there might be a new cartoon eventually but there is nothing on the horizon. And even if there is a cartoon, they may just decide to use the replacement. Because they makes perfect business sense and I wouldn't blame them.
I would have nothing to look forward too in regards to BP fandom.
So basically, I would have my trades, one movie, EMH and Pantherjack, and some cameo movies. Id just be an old head talking abot the good ol days aka what... 2 whole ass years lol?
MCU Black Panther Franchise without T'challa isn't my thing. I saw T'chaka get blown up. So T'challa get stabbed and thrown off a water fall, say T'challa get disintegrated, and then I gotta sit through another movie about someone else taking the mantle because T'challa died again? Yeah no thanks.
If MCU Shuri was like comic shuri it would be easier to stomach but sh*t... MCU shuri ain't about that life so they would have to retool a character they already retooled just to make it fit. And then we get ANOTHER "live up to my dead relative" story. Joy. Can't wait. Maybe they can have Wakandan's fight over it in the movie too! because that would be exciting again!
courtesy of CBR's MindofShadow
My Two Cents: Killing off T'Challa is a short-sighted idea and would be a mistake on a number of levels, many of which are represented in MoneySpider's quote above. Absolutely loved Chadwick and am still grieving his loss. However, T'Challa could and should be bigger. He should continue to thrill and inspire our youth while providing a shining example of Black strength and excellence! This is needed and should not be dismissed. There are many more T'Challa stories to tell and more Black artists to convey them, Aldis Hodge and Jonathan Majors come to mind. Not as replacements for Chadwick, but successors. I love Letitia and Shuri and would love to see the character further explored, pursuing her own stories. In over 50 years, I've consumed a ton of stories featuring a plethora of heroes. Precious few have looked like me. Our kids have it better in this regard thanks to T'Challa and Luke Cage and Black Lightning. I had Flash Gordon, Batman and James Bond. Much as we love the players, it's the characters that allow us to imagine and dream. Now of all times is not the time to take T'Challa away. I truly believe Chadwick would agree.
My Two Cents.
Peace,
Mont
I just feel like cutting T'Challas time short would be a huge mistake all over the guise of being "respectful" and "no one could replace Chadwick" I mean with Spiderman, Batman, James Bond and superman movies, no one is replacing the actor that played the character before them, but rather they are a successor. And the same should be done for Chad. I mean look at what he has said in interviews, no where does it sound like he wanted the character to live and die with him. He wanted to keep inspiring people as the character on obviously, but he wanted the character to continue to grow. Plus I really just have a hard time not seeing Shuri as a Tony Stark type, quippy and fun, but not serious enough for the role of ruler and BP, and if you have a sudden change in personality it can be weird..
And again I am all for Black girl empowerment, it's a great thing, however, it needs to be demanded and pushed in it's own vein with characters who are their own stand alone heroes and not supporting cast members of other heroes trying to take the role fro. The protagonist. That rarely ever works and it's a huge disservice to the franchise to do so. Plus when seeing all these articles popping up about how marvel can tribute T'Challa they are frankly... All about agendas and nothing about honoring Chad. Latest one was killing T'Challa off in a post credit scene and having the person who does it be the next big bad to "have him die heroically whole also setting up how dangerous the next big villain is and setting their arc in motion" and it just reeks of agenda and using T'Challa as some sort of prop for someone else. So for me? I will keep pushing back and supporting a recast so T'Challa can get his fill story told to completion and he gets the respect he deserves and Chad gets the respect for all his hard work that he deserves as well
Ezyo
I think so too. Losing Chad was a heart breaker no doubt but I think that they have to carry on with T'Challa as BP and do a recast. It would be alot worse to lose both Chad and T'Challa.
marvell2100
I think the bottom line is? They're going to have to recast T'Challa...and do it for the next movie. My entire heart has been riven by the loss of T'Chadwick. I can only approach it with a bit of surrealism, like I know it's real...but not really. Same thing when considering someone like JDW to be his replacement as T'Challa. It...doesn't feel real. Even though I am absolutely certain that T'Chadwick would want us to replace him and indeed knew that even if had beaten colon cancer, T'Chadwick could only play T'Challa for a short period of time in his life. And T'Challa would both be played by younger actors and T'Challa the character would outlive us all.
supreme illuminati
What some real fans are saying...QuoteMy Two Cents: Killing off T'Challa is a short-sighted idea and would be a mistake on a number of levels, many of which are represented in MoneySpider's quote above. Absolutely loved Chadwick and am still grieving his loss. However, T'Challa could and should be bigger. He should continue to thrill and inspire our youth while providing a shining example of Black strength and excellence! This is needed and should not be dismissed. There are many more T'Challa stories to tell and more Black artists to convey them, Aldis Hodge and Jonathan Majors come to mind. Not as replacements for Chadwick, but successors. I love Letitia and Shuri and would love to see the character further explored, pursuing her own stories. In over 50 years, I've consumed a ton of stories featuring a plethora of heroes. Precious few have looked like me. Our kids have it better in this regard thanks to T'Challa and Luke Cage and Black Lightning. I had Flash Gordon, Batman and James Bond. Much as we love the players, it's the characters that allow us to imagine and dream. Now of all times is not the time to take T'Challa away. I truly believe Chadwick would agree.
My Two Cents.
Peace,
MontQuoteI just feel like cutting T'Challas time short would be a huge mistake all over the guise of being "respectful" and "no one could replace Chadwick" I mean with Spiderman, Batman, James Bond and superman movies, no one is replacing the actor that played the character before them, but rather they are a successor. And the same should be done for Chad. I mean look at what he has said in interviews, no where does it sound like he wanted the character to live and die with him. He wanted to keep inspiring people as the character on obviously, but he wanted the character to continue to grow. Plus I really just have a hard time not seeing Shuri as a Tony Stark type, quippy and fun, but not serious enough for the role of ruler and BP, and if you have a sudden change in personality it can be weird..
And again I am all for Black girl empowerment, it's a great thing, however, it needs to be demanded and pushed in it's own vein with characters who are their own stand alone heroes and not supporting cast members of other heroes trying to take the role fro. The protagonist. That rarely ever works and it's a huge disservice to the franchise to do so. Plus when seeing all these articles popping up about how marvel can tribute T'Challa they are frankly... All about agendas and nothing about honoring Chad. Latest one was killing T'Challa off in a post credit scene and having the person who does it be the next big bad to "have him die heroically whole also setting up how dangerous the next big villain is and setting their arc in motion" and it just reeks of agenda and using T'Challa as some sort of prop for someone else. So for me? I will keep pushing back and supporting a recast so T'Challa can get his fill story told to completion and he gets the respect he deserves and Chad gets the respect for all his hard work that he deserves as well
EzyoQuoteI think so too. Losing Chad was a heart breaker no doubt but I think that they have to carry on with T'Challa as BP and do a recast. It would be alot worse to lose both Chad and T'Challa.
marvell2100QuoteI think the bottom line is? They're going to have to recast T'Challa...and do it for the next movie. My entire heart has been riven by the loss of T'Chadwick. I can only approach it with a bit of surrealism, like I know it's real...but not really. Same thing when considering someone like JDW to be his replacement as T'Challa. It...doesn't feel real. Even though I am absolutely certain that T'Chadwick would want us to replace him and indeed knew that even if had beaten colon cancer, T'Chadwick could only play T'Challa for a short period of time in his life. And T'Challa would both be played by younger actors and T'Challa the character would outlive us all.
supreme illuminati
PREVENT THE ASSASSINATION OF T'CHALLA THE BLACK PANTHER!
(https://mb.web.sapo.io/fac33d771ea7c075e229b310bb0f3ff116a27c96.jpg)
RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A.
Chadwick Boseman's legacy deserves nothing less!
Quote from: Chesterfield;5164172Then actors need to Man the hell up! It's a job, a job that comes with a huge responsibility which is why it's important to cast the right actor for the role BUT not to kill the character off or replace him! This is an opportunity to contribute to something meaningful. What does it say about black men too afraid to be asked questions and compared to Boseman's portrayal? Cowardice, that's what it says. If that's the case and mind set then we don't deserve another Black Panther movie period. Let black actors stick to their stereotypical comic relief, gangbanger, slave needing a white saviour roles. How many white actors and even black actors have expressed they would love to portray a character like James Bond and this is in the wake of Daniel Craig who has made the role his own despite the initial backlash to his casting? Sorry but yes, it's sad hat Boseman has passed away, he was a great T'Challa but like Shuri herself said, "...it doesn't mean it can't be improved". A potential new actor for T'Challa could explore characteristics that build upon what Boseman started. Taking on the role is a huge undertaking and responsibility and should be approached with such a purpose and not to shy away from it.[/size]
Another voice:QuoteQuote from: Chesterfield;5164172Then actors need to Man the hell up! It's a job, a job that comes with a huge responsibility which is why it's important to cast the right actor for the role BUT not to kill the character off or replace him! This is an opportunity to contribute to something meaningful. What does it say about black men too afraid to be asked questions and compared to Boseman's portrayal? Cowardice, that's what it says. If that's the case and mind set then we don't deserve another Black Panther movie period. Let black actors stick to their stereotypical comic relief, gangbanger, slave needing a white saviour roles. How many white actors and even black actors have expressed they would love to portray a character like James Bond and this is in the wake of Daniel Craig who has made the role his own despite the initial backlash to his casting? Sorry but yes, it's sad hat Boseman has passed away, he was a great T'Challa but like Shuri herself said, "...it doesn't mean it can't be improved". A potential new actor for T'Challa could explore characteristics that build upon what Boseman started. Taking on the role is a huge undertaking and responsibility and should be approached with such a purpose and not to shy away from it.[/size]
NGENDUMISO [ "WITH PRAISE/BRAVO/PRAISE HIM/CHEER FOR HIM" ], CHESTERFIELD!! He needs to come to HEF, forthwith!
Thanks Ture for this thread and for sharing the views of the Black Panther fans.
What some real fans are saying...QuoteMy Two Cents: Killing off T'Challa is a short-sighted idea and would be a mistake on a number of levels, many of which are represented in MoneySpider's quote above. Absolutely loved Chadwick and am still grieving his loss. However, T'Challa could and should be bigger. He should continue to thrill and inspire our youth while providing a shining example of Black strength and excellence! This is needed and should not be dismissed. There are many more T'Challa stories to tell and more Black artists to convey them, Aldis Hodge and Jonathan Majors come to mind. Not as replacements for Chadwick, but successors. I love Letitia and Shuri and would love to see the character further explored, pursuing her own stories. In over 50 years, I've consumed a ton of stories featuring a plethora of heroes. Precious few have looked like me. Our kids have it better in this regard thanks to T'Challa and Luke Cage and Black Lightning. I had Flash Gordon, Batman and James Bond. Much as we love the players, it's the characters that allow us to imagine and dream. Now of all times is not the time to take T'Challa away. I truly believe Chadwick would agree.
My Two Cents.
Peace,
MontQuoteI just feel like cutting T'Challas time short would be a huge mistake all over the guise of being "respectful" and "no one could replace Chadwick" I mean with Spiderman, Batman, James Bond and superman movies, no one is replacing the actor that played the character before them, but rather they are a successor. And the same should be done for Chad. I mean look at what he has said in interviews, no where does it sound like he wanted the character to live and die with him. He wanted to keep inspiring people as the character on obviously, but he wanted the character to continue to grow. Plus I really just have a hard time not seeing Shuri as a Tony Stark type, quippy and fun, but not serious enough for the role of ruler and BP, and if you have a sudden change in personality it can be weird..
And again I am all for Black girl empowerment, it's a great thing, however, it needs to be demanded and pushed in it's own vein with characters who are their own stand alone heroes and not supporting cast members of other heroes trying to take the role fro. The protagonist. That rarely ever works and it's a huge disservice to the franchise to do so. Plus when seeing all these articles popping up about how marvel can tribute T'Challa they are frankly... All about agendas and nothing about honoring Chad. Latest one was killing T'Challa off in a post credit scene and having the person who does it be the next big bad to "have him die heroically whole also setting up how dangerous the next big villain is and setting their arc in motion" and it just reeks of agenda and using T'Challa as some sort of prop for someone else. So for me? I will keep pushing back and supporting a recast so T'Challa can get his fill story told to completion and he gets the respect he deserves and Chad gets the respect for all his hard work that he deserves as well
EzyoQuoteI think so too. Losing Chad was a heart breaker no doubt but I think that they have to carry on with T'Challa as BP and do a recast. It would be alot worse to lose both Chad and T'Challa.
marvell2100QuoteI think the bottom line is? They're going to have to recast T'Challa...and do it for the next movie. My entire heart has been riven by the loss of T'Chadwick. I can only approach it with a bit of surrealism, like I know it's real...but not really. Same thing when considering someone like JDW to be his replacement as T'Challa. It...doesn't feel real. Even though I am absolutely certain that T'Chadwick would want us to replace him and indeed knew that even if had beaten colon cancer, T'Chadwick could only play T'Challa for a short period of time in his life. And T'Challa would both be played by younger actors and T'Challa the character would outlive us all.
supreme illuminati
PREVENT THE ASSASSINATION OF T'CHALLA THE BLACK PANTHER!
(https://mb.web.sapo.io/fac33d771ea7c075e229b310bb0f3ff116a27c96.jpg)
RESIST THE A.G.E.N.D.A.
Chadwick Boseman's legacy deserves nothing less!
Brother Ture? I can't thank you enough for your tireless, peerless excellence.
Then what's the point of a Black Panther movie? T'Challa IS the story. I dont care how many people want to go on about Shuri this or M'Baku that; they're not it T'challa is. If people want to see Wakanda without T'Challa then they can go and petition for a D+ show or whatever.
I can't take Thor seriously. He's become somewhat of a joke since EG. Sure, he had his comedic moments from the start but that whole hippy fat thing...nah. They can do whatever they like with Thor, he's become somewhat inconsequential to me BUT T'Challa is a very different case. I do care and the character and his world need to be given the appropriate respect, care and treatment and that means ensuring T'Challa is at the forefront. But like you said, Marvel will tell whatever story they want and if there's no T'Challa; I'm 100% out.
CBR's Chesterfield
The problem with this thst it's not being devetin the BP Solo, by a writer whos sole purpose for exploring this is to expand T'Challas world and enrich and elevate HIM. These other book's aren't doing this to enrich T'Challa bit to tell their own stories and push plot, continuity be damned, especially mauraders, so no, explore it on the BP solo, not avenger's or ESPECIALLY, an x book
The problem with this thst it's not being devetin the BP Solo, by a writer whos sole purpose for exploring this is to expand T'Challas world and enrich and elevate HIM. These other book's aren't doing this to enrich T'Challa bit to tell their own stories and push plot, continuity be damned, especially mauraders, so no, explore it on the BP solo, not avenger's or ESPECIALLY, an x book
Well, he's a black dude, so no worry about him getting any major/lasting shine in an X-Book.
Ture,
Looking over the thread, and I saw you define real fans as those who back recasting T'Challa. Though I do not have the depth of knowledge that you, Supreme, and many others here do when it comes to Black Panther, I also don't think people who have differing views, about whether to recast or promote Shuri or another character as the next BP are necessarily not real fans of BP or are pushing an anti-black male agenda either. Some of them I think are, but I wouldn't just assume that of everyone, myself included here.