Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Panther Politics => Topic started by: KIP LEWIS on December 20, 2008, 03:49:56 am

Title: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: KIP LEWIS on December 20, 2008, 03:49:56 am
Something I find interesting, Prez to be Obama's upcoming term is supposed to be an era of hope, so how does Marvel enter it? Dark Reign.  Makes me wonder if Marvel and to a degree DC has missed.an opportunity. 

I also wonder if this is going to force writers to start being less cynical with the heroes?  Because, if the country turns optomostic, but Marvel stays dark and skeptical, then their fan base is only going to shrink even more.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on December 20, 2008, 07:23:12 am
These big story arcs are planned out a year, often two years in advance. It takes that long to pull them off logistically, etc.   When I first heard about Dark Reign (as opposed to when it was concieved) an Obama victory was far from certain.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Emperorjones on December 25, 2008, 03:33:34 am
Something I find interesting, Prez to be Obama's upcoming term is supposed to be an era of hope, so how does Marvel enter it? Dark Reign.  Makes me wonder if Marvel and to a degree DC has missed.an opportunity. 

I also wonder if this is going to force writers to start being less cynical with the heroes?  Because, if the country turns optomostic, but Marvel stays dark and skeptical, then their fan base is only going to shrink even more.

As opposed to having shiny, happy comics. That might turn off people too. Conflict-internal and external is a part of life. And despite the historic, transformational, and hopeful Obama victory, we live in dark, uncertain times. I think Marvel and DC should play it out and see where it goes. If nothing else, it might led to some great drama, character moments, and writing. Ultimately hope will win out. It always does. Do you really think the bad guys will ever maintain a win in comics? I'm not sure that's ever happened.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: supreme illuminati on December 26, 2008, 12:33:36 am
u should read millars book called wanted.bad guys got a permanent win there.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Emperorjones on December 26, 2008, 03:55:12 am
u should read millars book called wanted.bad guys got a permanent win there.

Thanks for the recommendation, but I've already read half of Wanted. I liked the movie better. Ironically, the book didn't interest me. I thought they were trying to overdue the badassness, and the Eminem likeness didn't help. Neither did dialogue like "My African-American boss". Who talks like that?
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: supreme illuminati on December 27, 2008, 10:50:46 am
I liked the book so much that I didn't want to see the (relatively speaking) inevitably disappointing movie.I know people who say "African-American" regularly,and with various inflections ranging from a simple reference devoid of any special negative or positive connotation to the more obvious and stereotypical racially negative opinion.

Since you bought the book,I recommend you check out the rest of WANTED.You already bought it.Might as well get your money's worth.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Emperorjones on December 28, 2008, 09:04:45 am
Actually I read it at the bookstore. I wasn't going to spend 20 bucks on it. I guess for the dialogue it just felt forced me. I thought him saying "my boss", or if he was trying to be non-PC, at least italicizing or bolding "African-American". I mean, it just felt odd. If I had a white boss, I don't think I would call them, 'My white boss'. If someone asked what color they were, then yeah. I know it's a small thing, but it bothered me. Plus, I don't like books/movies, etc., that are trying too hard to be cool or badass. I think Wanted fit that category. I also wasn't impressed with the comics characters, even though the comic story was more creative than the movie's.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Blanks on December 28, 2008, 02:09:33 pm
meh, I disliked Wanted both the book and the movie. For whatever reason, i just did not dig any of it. Not even with Jolie or Morgan Freeman in it could make me like it.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: KIP LEWIS on December 29, 2008, 01:39:31 pm
Something I find interesting, Prez to be Obama's upcoming term is supposed to be an era of hope, so how does Marvel enter it? Dark Reign.  Makes me wonder if Marvel and to a degree DC has missed.an opportunity. 

I also wonder if this is going to force writers to start being less cynical with the heroes?  Because, if the country turns optomostic, but Marvel stays dark and skeptical, then their fan base is only going to shrink even more.

As opposed to having shiny, happy comics. That might turn off people too. Conflict-internal and external is a part of life. And despite the historic, transformational, and hopeful Obama victory, we live in dark, uncertain times. I think Marvel and DC should play it out and see where it goes. If nothing else, it might led to some great drama, character moments, and writing. Ultimately hope will win out. It always does. Do you really think the bad guys will ever maintain a win in comics? I'm not sure that's ever happened.

Optomistic, doesn't have to mean "shiny, happy comics."  Comics from the 60s thru the 80s were optomistic (in general) but they were hardly "shiny" where nothing in life is bad or the heroes always win.  But even "Death of Phoenix" was sad, it wasn't "dark". 

But part of this line of thoughts originates in a workshop I attended talking about the difference in generations.  One of the things they said, (again, major generalities here), Gen Xers were cynical and they like that kind of storytelling.  This current generation (teens and younger) don't like the gen x cynicasim in storytelling.  True, these things change rapidly, but still I wonder if the answer to a shrinking audience is to change things to a more optimistic view of the world.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Emperorjones on December 30, 2008, 02:32:18 am
There is a healthy, and perhaps not so healthy, degree of cynicism in comics, and in society in general, but I think that comics have never strayed too far for too long from being optimistic. Most of the books are about heroes who save lives, often overcoming adversity along the way. But you need adversity, you need the dark times to appreciate the good times, to show how much the hero has overcome, to demonstrate the heroes inner and outer strengths. If the hero is never tested and wins all the time, what's the point? There's no drama there, there's no suspense. It'll get old real quick.

Exactly how are the younger generation more optimistic than a Gen-Xer like me? I think if Obama came along in the 90's/early 2000's, his message would've resonated among the young then too. A lot of people came out for Bill Clinton and even John Kerry because they represented, to some degree, a message of change and hope-esp. Bill Clinton's 1992 campaign where every other word he said was change, and the other word was probably economy.

Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Open palm on January 06, 2009, 07:45:16 pm
Well, it seems a lot of heroes will be starting out the year hurt in some way. But this happens after the Secret Invasion, so they'll all have to regroup and rethink their purpose. I'm disappointed that Cage had to make a deal with Osborn. I understand why but it's still sad, especially now that the Avengers will be re-organizing.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Hypestyle on January 08, 2009, 01:33:28 pm
hmm... I suspect that the new Prez may not be depicted too much in Dark Reign stories, kind of contradicts his general image.. we'll see what happens.. on a pure fantasy level, it would be interesting to see Osborn get a verbal smackdown from Obama or his chief of staff..  ;)
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Open palm on January 08, 2009, 05:40:29 pm
hmm... I suspect that the new Prez may not be depicted too much in Dark Reign stories, kind of contradicts his general image.. we'll see what happens.. on a pure fantasy level, it would be interesting to see Osborn get a verbal smackdown from Obama or his chief of staff..  ;)

I'd also like to see Marvel's Dondi get booted out.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Hypestyle on January 22, 2009, 01:37:49 pm
Well, in the latest issue of Thunderbolts, looks as if Prez Obama barely has time to get inaugurated before he gets drawn into Marvel Universe drama...

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He brings Norman Osborn onto Air Force One for an ad-hoc meeting, concerning the recent attack at Thunderbolts Mountain (Osborn was appointed by the outgoing Prez-- thanx, W!).  Doc Samson is there, presenting his case against Osborn; meanwhile, apparently Osborn is manipulating things, and we see that the 2nd Black Widow Yelena is still alive (!!!), also the current Ant-Man is among the new recruits to Osborn's black-ops squad.. by the end of the issue, Samson has been secretly poked with some kind of gamma-tech thing that makes him over-emotional, fighter jets escorting Air Force One get blown away, the President is escorted into a 'safety chamber' only for the side of the wall to get blown out, revealing an all new (?) Green Goblin!
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: KIP LEWIS on January 22, 2009, 07:30:15 pm
I think this is really interesting; either Dark Reign and Norman's role is short lived, or Norman is going to con The President.  If it is the later, Marvel didn't even give him a full 24 hrs before they had him conned by the bad guy in a story.  Personally, I hope DR is short lived.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Open palm on January 23, 2009, 07:49:24 pm
It will last as long as any major event. But I don't think Marvel can keep up with the changes that Obama will making during his presidency. Besides, these comics are about how the superheroes save us. If you want Obama leading the charge, give him his own costume. Norman will finally crack and rip open his suit to reveal his Goblin costume. Obama will rip open his suit and reveal his Alex Ross-designed costume! And he won't need a mask!
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Open palm on January 23, 2009, 11:47:33 pm
You know what we need? A weekly show that covers Obama's best actions or decisions. But it's presented like Bill Cosby's commentaries after the Black Hornet cartoons. The commentator can wear an Obama Nation t-shirt, cheering him on.

"He's not a Bush...
He's not a Huxtable...
He's President OBAMAAAAAAAAAAAA!"
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: KIP LEWIS on January 29, 2009, 05:16:23 pm
Interesting, Marvel says that ain't Obama in Thunderbolts, but a fictional American President.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Vic Vega on January 29, 2009, 06:06:24 pm
Interesting, Marvel says that ain't Obama in Thunderbolts, but a fictional American President.

And Final Crisis #7 has a Black Superman who is President in his secret I.D.

A kind of Obama shout-out.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on January 30, 2009, 05:33:06 am
I loved the Thunderbolts storyline...I mean the Spidey thing was cute, but this looks like the story folks folks are gonna sleep on. It's starting out hot as hell to me.

And that black president/superman....I think he needs another appearance.  Dwayne should do it...and if he don't, I will.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Mastrmynd on January 30, 2009, 08:29:19 am
then that would mean you'd be writing for DC?
marv will let u do that?
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on February 04, 2009, 06:29:07 am
then that would mean you'd be writing for DC?
marv will let u do that?

I am not exclusive. 

The only challenge is finding the time...
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Mastrmynd on February 04, 2009, 06:54:13 am
OOOooooh.
hmmm.
if u find the time, then that would mean i'd have to find the dime(s).
a brother is broke these days!
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: KIP LEWIS on February 04, 2009, 06:27:46 pm
Well "Obama" appears in Secret Warriors.  (Spoilers). Fury just strolls into the Oval Office, talks to the man, showing no respect.  The President even calls him on it.and his response--been here, done that since WW2; doesn't impress.
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: Open palm on February 06, 2009, 06:15:34 am
Well "Obama" appears in Secret Warriors.  (Spoilers). Fury just strolls into the Oval Office, talks to the man, showing no respect.  The President even calls him on it.and his response--been here, done that since WW2; doesn't impress.

Good grief. Just send Fury to Afghanistan to get rid of Karzai. That old fart is becoming embarassing.  >:(
Title: Re: Hope vs Dark Reign
Post by: michaelintp on April 12, 2009, 12:35:35 am
I loved the Thunderbolts storyline...I mean the Spidey thing was cute, but this looks like the story folks folks are gonna sleep on. It's starting out hot as hell to me.

I agree.

Made me wonder, though, if McCain had been elected, whether we would still be treated to the same storyline, in effect removing culpability from the President for the continued appointment of the Green Goblin as head of national security.  Or whether this is a special effort to portray Obama in the best light possible (though, in the end, he is still duped).  I'm not quick to jump to a conclusion here, as Marvel (post-Jemas) at times tried not to insult the actual President.  I did get a little tired of the repeated Presidential refrain, "Was he hurt, were they hurt, is everyone OK, etc etc etc ..."  Once would have been enough to make the point that "our President is a wonderful compassionate human being" etc etc etc ...

But anyway, I did get a kick of how the "Dark Reign" was being reconciled with the real world, and the new Administration, to some extent.  Was chortling as I was reading it.

Also amuses me that Marvel is claiming this to be a fictional President who just happens to look just like President Obama. 

I was disappointed to see Thunderbolts, after this great kick off, drop off into a goofy little Deadpool story with frickin' cross-over titles.

... oh, and on the broader thrust of this thread, who ever said this is a time of hope?  Geeze, I'm feeling more hope-less as every day passes.    :P