Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: Open palm on April 26, 2010, 04:10:32 pm

Title: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Open palm on April 26, 2010, 04:10:32 pm
Newsarama has posted a 5-page preview:

http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=34855 (http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=34855)

Is that 'cutting loose' enough for you?
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on April 26, 2010, 04:27:55 pm
For Storm, that's normal; not cutting loose.  Cutting loose for Storm would have everyone else hidding behind Sue's shields while Storm takes out all of the enemy.  This is normal Storm.

HOWEVER, it looks very good.  Storm taking care of everything would be less impressive.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Wakandan561 on April 26, 2010, 06:16:49 pm
It looks like we finally get to see more action, as for Storm I'll wait and read before I decide whats going down with that. But I can't wait to see what happens when they get their hands on Walter Declun.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: BBeeryan on April 27, 2010, 09:38:36 am
Newsarama has posted a 5-page preview:

[url]http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=34855[/url] ([url]http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=34855[/url])

Is that 'cutting loose' enough for you?
Actually I would have to say no. Don't get me wrong, this story definitely is the sh*t. But if this Storm cutting loose then Fraction also had her cutting loose, which by the way is total bullsh*t.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Vic Vega on April 27, 2010, 11:31:00 am
See Storm has been portrayed as this regal domme with quick wits and a will of iron who is a Omega Level Mutant to boot.

So while Storm got a great deal of dialogue in Doomwar 1 and 2 she wasn't taking charge (she was a prisoner) of the situation and she wasn't overpowering everybody (because Doom and the Desturi had negated her power) either. So the Storm fans are unsatisfied and are now still complaining.

They want to see her taking charge of the situation or overpowering people or both.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on April 27, 2010, 11:40:51 am
<<VV:  They want to see her taking charge of the situation or overpowering people or both.>>

Which could still happen in issue 4 or even issue 6.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: BBeeryan on April 27, 2010, 12:55:53 pm
So the Storm fans are unsatisfied and are now still complaining.
See Vic, I wouldn't have a problem with your comment if you weren't insisting I was complaining. You can keep that. Storm got me into reading Black Panther related titles. That's first and foremost, so of course I'm gonna be a lil more interested in HER character development. I voiced my opinion when I felt as though Maberry did a good job. Which I do whenever I go into a Doomwar thread. I bought two issues of every issue so far,and NOT because of Storm. The story is off the chain, and THAT happens to be what keeps me spending money. Not to mention that months before this mini hit shelves I was promised an unforgettable Storm moment. So I wasn't supposed to expect it, when i was TOLD to expect it? That's BULLsh*t!!! And come whatever day in May when I go to purchase MY next two issues of the series, if I happen to still be underwhelmed with Storm's portrayal in this story, I'll voice that too. So you can eagerly await to see if this Storm fan complains again. FOH
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Vic Vega on April 27, 2010, 02:10:49 pm
So the Storm fans are unsatisfied and are now still complaining.
See Vic, I wouldn't have a problem with your comment if you weren't insisting I was complaining. You can keep that. Storm got me into reading Black Panther related titles. That's first and foremost, so of course I'm gonna be a lil more interested in HER character development. I voiced my opinion when I felt as though Maberry did a good job. Which I do whenever I go into a Doomwar thread. I bought two issues of every issue so far,and NOT because of Storm. The story is off the chain, and THAT happens to be what keeps me spending money. Not to mention that months before this mini hit shelves I was promised an unforgettable Storm moment. So I wasn't supposed to expect it, when i was TOLD to expect it? That's BULLsh*t!!! And come whatever day in May when I go to purchase MY next two issues of the series, if I happen to still be underwhelmed with Storm's portrayal in this story, I'll voice that too. So you can eagerly await to see if this Storm fan complains again. FOH

I didn't say that you should not be complaining, I was explaining to O.P. what the issue was in the first place.

Since he sort of asked.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Open palm on April 27, 2010, 07:45:46 pm
They want to see her taking charge of the situation or overpowering people or both.

She took down those Desturi recently in issue #3. But I doubt she would be leading a force against Doom in this storyline. And what happened to the X-Men? They just left after rescuing her?
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Wakandan561 on April 27, 2010, 07:54:41 pm


She took down those Desturi recently in issue #3. But I doubt she would be leading a force against Doom in this storyline. And what happened to the X-Men? They just left after rescuing her?
[/quote]
She's probaly not going after Doom, their going after Declun, you can't capture the king until you get his pieces off the board first. The X-men probably left, once they realized that Storm was O.K., that was their primary purpose for getting involved. As for Storm cutting loose, I remember Maberry saying something like "Storm is Nice, but what she does won't be" and "their will be blood" so who knows :-\
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: BBeeryan on April 28, 2010, 09:54:33 am
So the Storm fans are unsatisfied and are now still complaining.
See Vic, I wouldn't have a problem with your comment if you weren't insisting I was complaining. You can keep that. Storm got me into reading Black Panther related titles. That's first and foremost, so of course I'm gonna be a lil more interested in HER character development. I voiced my opinion when I felt as though Maberry did a good job. Which I do whenever I go into a Doomwar thread. I bought two issues of every issue so far,and NOT because of Storm. The story is off the chain, and THAT happens to be what keeps me spending money. Not to mention that months before this mini hit shelves I was promised an unforgettable Storm moment. So I wasn't supposed to expect it, when i was TOLD to expect it? That's BULLsh*t!!! And come whatever day in May when I go to purchase MY next two issues of the series, if I happen to still be underwhelmed with Storm's portrayal in this story, I'll voice that too. So you can eagerly await to see if this Storm fan complains again. FOH

I didn't say that you should not be complaining, I was explaining to O.P. what the issue was in the first place.

Since he sort of asked.
I know what you said. You said the Storm fans are unsatisfied and are now still complaining. You didn't quote the OPand you didn't quote me for that matter either, but your passive-aggressive post was right after mine. In all honesty I answered the OP, you didn't. But I'll drop it. Maybe I took it the wrong way. And I apologize if I did.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Princesa on April 28, 2010, 09:58:21 am
The story is great and I love the scale of it and I am happy it is doing well. I love the fabulous fighting femmes in preview... I'm cool with seeing Storm featured, the more the better.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: supreme illuminati on April 28, 2010, 11:58:04 am
This book is absofrickinlutely OFF DA FREAKIN CHAINS and I am most thoroughly loving it.Kudos,props and big shout outs to Mr.Maberry,who is MORE THAN DELIVERING on his promises...
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Wakandan561 on April 30, 2010, 06:49:25 am
They want to see her taking charge of the situation or overpowering people or both.

She took down those Desturi recently in issue #3. But I doubt she would be leading a force against Doom in this storyline. And what happened to the X-Men? They just left after rescuing her?
Well as far as Nightcrawler goes, he died...................... :-[
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Princesa on May 09, 2010, 07:14:11 pm
In all this where are the Hatut Zeraze? surely they should have been either part of the rebellion or the rescue.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Open palm on May 13, 2010, 12:53:30 am
In all this where are the Hatut Zeraze? surely they should have been either part of the rebellion or the rescue.

I'm sure they'll be back someday when they wish to reinstate their father's Gestapo.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Greg on May 21, 2010, 10:21:09 am
Lettered Preview

http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: BBeeryan on May 21, 2010, 10:51:33 am
Lettered Preview

[url]http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/[/url]

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 21, 2010, 12:57:53 pm
I hope we actually see T'challa doing something. Black Panther gets an Event...and he isn't doing anything?
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Naki on May 21, 2010, 03:26:28 pm
Lettered Preview

[url]http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/[/url]

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Greg on May 21, 2010, 03:29:22 pm
Lettered Preview

[url]http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/[/url]

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.


Seems that was initially the plan but then Marvel told Maberry to write a recap of the whole event starting from the Black Panther relaunch due to the sell out of #1 and new readers jumping aboard.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Naki on May 21, 2010, 06:03:07 pm
Lettered Preview

[url]http://www.theouthousers.com/content/view/8222/600/[/url]

I really do hope Storm plays a bigger role in this book and we actually get her and T'Challa interacting.

You aint the only one.



All of the concerns/issues people raised about T'Challa's secrecy and Storm's predicament could have been easily handled in issue 3. Instead of Shuri relaying the whole story to the FF, Maberry could have split the explanation. Shuri could have relayed one part to the FF while T'Challa shared his side with his wife. This would have made for a tighter story and sewn up some gaping holes. So, I guess, we're supposed to assume that they had a big heart-to-heart and now Storm's off fighting vibranium enhanced Doombots who look a lot like Bast. This storyline seems suddenly long to me.


Seems that was initially the plan but then Marvel told Maberry to write a recap of the whole event starting from the Black Panther relaunch due to the sell out of #1 and new readers jumping aboard.


Yeah, I get that. I'm just saying there was a better way to do it. He could've still done the recap, but allow T'Challa to do some of the talking instead of just Shuri. That way, the recap and the needed wife-husband heart-to-heart could've also been covered.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2010, 06:11:31 am
I hope we actually see T'challa doing something. Black Panther gets an Event...and he isn't doing anything?

I get a sense of your frustration, Seven. The story started in the Black Panther but has spun out of the pages of that now-canceled book to become not a Black Panther event, but a Dr. Doom event. I would guess that many readers of DOOMWAR were not readers of the Black Panther. Those readers are likely Dr. Doom fans who are thrilled by the one thing the Black Panther is doing and has been doing all along, getting his butt kicked by Dr. Doom. As Maberry commented in one of his posts, the title of the book is DOOMWAR afterall.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 22, 2010, 06:32:24 am
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2010, 02:07:30 pm
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: 4sake on May 22, 2010, 02:17:15 pm
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.

I agree...

arm or both & also the ability to rule his nation fora while (again)....
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 22, 2010, 02:45:29 pm
The biggest challenge of Doomwar is to let BP win in a way that is A) believable and B) that respects the both characters, hero and villains.  I say "both" because having BP win because Doom is foolish, does a disservice to both characters.  It would suggest BP can only win because Doom makes mistakes.  True, that is an cliche that comics use constantly, but it also means the hero can't win unless the villain sabatogues himself.  BP needs a real victory over Doom's strength, not over Doom's weakness.

And C) BP needs to win without using a "god in the machine" solution.  Yeah, sci fi uses the trick all the time, but having BP pull out a "magic" answer that has not been foreshadowed isn't the best way to prove to the world BP's formidable.

And to respect Storm while doing this isn't an easy thing.

Thus far in the story, Doom is beating T'Challa at his own game; accurately anticipating an opponent's moves and acting in advance to impede or implode the opponent's offensive.

Doom is powerful to be sure. Doom is also arrogant and foolish. These traits have led to his many defeats at the hands of Reed Richards and not only Reed Richards but Luke Cage, Cloak, and most recently, Dr. Voodoo. Doom is not all-powerful. Doom is not infallible. However, at this time, Doom is being written as such to make for a more exciting, intriguing story and T'Challa's/Ororo's/Shuri's and allies' ultimate victory that much sweeter.

R. Richards once defeated Doom by hypnotizing him into believing he'd won. They say a man's home is his castle. Luke Cage "invaded" Latveria, stormed Doom's castle and put a significant whuppin' on Doom in his own living room, cracking up his armor so badly that when Doom was attacked by a second opponent intent on killing him, he was unable to defend himself. Cage actually had to save Doom's bacon...in Doom's own house. The young teenage hero Cloak manipulated and frustrated Doom into destroying one of his nefarious devices and like Cage, Cloak accomplished this feat in Doom's own crib. Lastly, Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered an arrogant, overly-confident Doom which featured Doom making a series of tactical errors which inevitably caused him to bungle into being possessed by Jericho's brother Daniel and used as a tool to dispatch Nightmare. When Doom was of no further use to Dr. Voodoo, the "good Dr." punched the "megalomaniacal Dr." in the nose and told him to go home. How did this apex villian respond to such a bold affront? He picked himself off the floor, opened a portal to Latveria and got the hell out of Dodge, but not before handing Dr. Voodoo that old hackneyed villianous retort; "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon!"

Doom has received more than enough respect in this story already. His ultimate defeat must be humiliating, devastating, and my personal preference is that he is permanently physically maimed. Doom has to lose his left eye for manipulating Wakandan traitors into allowing him to be the only invader ever to conquer Great Wakanda.

The Luke Cage thing probably will turn out to be a Doombot, consider Cage should not be able to break Doom's armor when Ben who is much stronger can't.  (Even Namor norThor hasn't manage to break Doom's armor open.)  Don't confuse bad writing with bad defeats for Doom.

But I'm not talking about a avoiding humilating defeat.  You can still write a humilating defeat for Doom, and not write a foolish Doom.  In fact, if Doom looses because he has a big red button that says "OFF" then no matter how BP wins, it's not a solid win for BP.  Whenever Doom is beaten because he makes mistakes, it means Reed (or whoever) only won because Doom made a mistake.  They did not win because they "beat" Doom.  I think BP needs to BEAT Doom, not capatalize on Doom beating himself.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: sinjection1 on May 22, 2010, 03:11:21 pm
The Luke Cage thing probably will turn out to be a Doombot, consider Cage should not be able to break Doom's armor when Ben who is much stronger can't.  (Even Namor norThor hasn't manage to break Doom's armor open.)  Don't confuse bad writing with bad defeats for Doom.

The few members of the greater comicbook-reading demographic who have responded to my recounting of this event in the past have said as much. Always wanting to keep Doom in his lofty position of near-infallibility, they throw out the old "it was a Doombot" excuse. T'Challa has been in battles which have left him bruised, bloodied, and once, even an incurable brain tumor. MU fans who have any interest at all in the Black Panther have grown accustomed to seeing an infirm, nearly beaten to death T'Challa on a more or less, regular basis. When Hudlin presents a T'Challa who is supremely confident/supremely capable, those same fans complain that Hudlin's T'Challa is "too perfect". Hudlin's Wakanda is "too perfect". Doom is not perfect. Bad writing...maybe, maybe not. What I do know that as written, Cage defeated Dr. Doom in his own castle and so did Cloak. Recently, Dr. Voodoo smacked Doom in the nose and told him to go home. What did Doom do? He went home.

Quote
But I'm not talking about a avoiding humilating defeat.  You can still write a humilating defeat for Doom, and not write a foolish Doom.  In fact, if Doom looses because he has a big red button that says "OFF" then no matter how BP wins, it's not a solid win for BP.  Whenever Doom is beaten because he makes mistakes, it means Reed (or whoever) only won because Doom made a mistake.  They did not win because they "beat" Doom.  I think BP needs to BEAT Doom, not capatalize on Doom beating himself.

In arm wrestling, the contest is purely strength vs strength and even then, one miscalculation by a participant could lead to the defeat of that individual. The Soviet Union Red Army defeated Hitler's Nazi army because Hitler's arrogance caused him to underestimate the Russians and make the mistake of attacking Stalingrad. Great football teams and basketball teams often (and rightly so) attribute their defeats to turnovers. As Doom said, he and T'Challa are equally matched. So far, T'Challa has been on the short end because he made the "mistake" of blundering into Doom's ambush. It's inevitable that Doom will make a mistake which will lead to his defeat.

Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 22, 2010, 03:37:59 pm
I don't have a problem with that.  Heroes beating the villain because the villain isn't perfect is a valid victory.  What I am talking about is heroes winning only because the villain is foolish, ie, the foolish mistake.  When a hero beats the villain because of what you describe it is the hero being wise, skillful and sucessful with a measure of luck.  Winning because Doom is foolish is more luck than skill. 

I am not even talking about Doom making a mistake like underestimating BP.  I mean victory because of stupid stuff, like a Skrull commander who sends his entire forces in a single wave when anyone with a high school education knows you attack in multiple waves.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 22, 2010, 03:50:58 pm
But ultimately what I am saying, is give BP a victory where he wins because he is better.  Don't give him a victory where someone could say, "you only won because Doom took off his mask to gloat.". No, give him a victory like FF 200 where Reed refuses to quit, keeps attacking until he ripped off Doom's mask.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: 4sake on May 22, 2010, 04:11:55 pm
But ultimately what I am saying, is give BP a victory where he wins because he is better.  Don't give him a victory where someone could say, "you only won because Doom took off his mask to gloat.". No, give him a victory like FF 200 where Reed refuses to quit, keeps attacking until he ripped off Doom's mask.

I agree...
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: sinjection1 on May 23, 2010, 05:36:52 am
But ultimately what I am saying, is give BP a victory where he wins because he is better.  Don't give him a victory where someone could say, "you only won because Doom took off his mask to gloat.". No, give him a victory like FF 200 where Reed refuses to quit, keeps attacking until he ripped off Doom's mask.

I agree...

I agree as well, 4sake. I believe DOOMWAR is absolutely on course to finish with a victory over Doom by T'Challa to rival and even exceed that described by Kip in FF #200. T'Challa hasn't ever quit against any opponent. Doom has exhibited stupidity/foolishness traits in the past, his premature ejaculation of gloating in Doctor Voodoo #5, for instance. After transmuting Nightmare from a physical being into one composed of pure energy which he then immediately absorbed, Doom began to gloat about his "ultimate victory" over Dr. Voodoo and demanding that the Eye Of Agamotto be surrendered to him. Doom was so arrogant, so foolish, so incredibly stupid that he didn't even realize he'd been defeated until Dr. Voodoo challenged him to kill him and when he tried to do so, discovered that he could not. He'd been possessed by Daniel Drumm. I appreciated the smooth, slick way Dr. Voodoo outmanuevered Doom and the humiliating manner in which Doom was dismissed by Jericho afterwards. I wish Jericho had hit Doom more than once however. He should have kicked the scum when he was down.

I want T'Challa's victory over Doom to be one that the greater comicbook-reading demographic will lament for years to come. I want T'Challa to stand up to Doom's armor's weaponry and his mystic attacks and then proceed to beat Doom to a pulp, ripping off his cloak and armor as he does so. rendering him as naked as he was when he fought and killed that lion save for his face plate. I want T'Challa to batter and kick Doom's bloodied, beaten body all through the halls of his Latverian castle in full view of Doom's horrified and helpless subjects/staff. I want Doom to cry out in pain and anguish. I want him to beg T'Challa for mercy. Then, I want T'Challa to rip away Doom's face plate and bash his vulnerable face against the walls and floor of the room they happen to be in at that time until it is a bloody pulpy mass of gore. I want Doom's teeth knocked the funk out of his mouth and his left eye GONE!!!!

At that point, I want T'Challa to approach the beaten, battered, whimpering slime that was Dr. Doom - the Spear Of Bashenga in hand. I want T'Challa to raise the Spear over Doom's quivering body and bring it down with all the force his now physically-enhanced body is able to muster. Whether or not the spearpoint penetrates Doom is a matter left to the writer.

T'Challa won't be granted such a well-deserved victory however, if his defeat of Anton Pretorious is any indicator. After fighting through lies, diversions, and attacks that left his body and mind battered, T'Challa finally fought his way to his mother's side. Pretorious entered the room and said, "Hello, T'Challa." T'Challa lifted Pretorious over his head intending to hurl him from the bedroom's balcony to his death below only to be prevented from doing so by his outraged mother, Ramonda. I wouldn't be surprised if Bast itself prevents T'Challa from killing Doom.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 24, 2010, 01:10:57 pm
Totally agreed. I like Doomwar...*but* as a fan of T'challa, I would be lying if I said that I'm not a bit pissed off that he is really not doing anything. So Black Panther finally gets a Marvel Event...and what happens...T'challa is pushed to the back ground? It's a good read, but as a BP fan...We are seeing a numbers drop, because you have fans that want to see T'challa...

Same with Storm...is Doomwar worth her not being in SC...(even though there is still no reason she should not be doing something over there...since SC is after Doomwar.).

If T'challa does not get a pure win...then Doomwar is not going to go over very well...watch. That is pretty sad, because I'm a big fan of the event...but with hopes that T'challa does something.

Seeing that Shuri is getting a mini and the Heroic Age one shot...I think that we need to see T'challa do something.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 24, 2010, 01:25:09 pm
To be fair...this is what Maberry said...

Quote
Marvel made the decision to have Shuri wear the mantle of the Black Panther. It wasn't something Reggie Hudlin (who introduced the change) or I (as current) writer had a say in. That means that T'Challa and Storm are not the central characters in the book. Shuri is. Marvel has been shaking things up all across the MU, and there has been a strong focus on the power of female characters --many of who are being given a shot at leading a book.

That said, Marvel has some pretty interesting plans for T'Challa and Storm over the next year.

On the other hand, even though I've always been a huge fan of T'Challa, I'm enjoying writing Shuri. I have another mini-series starting later this year that explores Shuri's personality, her life as the new ruler/spiritual leader/hero of Wakanda.

As for Doom...well, let's face it...the book is called DoomWar. He will be sharing equal priority with the combined team of Shuri, T'Challa, Storm, the FF, Deadpool and the other guest (who will be revealed in #5).


So it looks like it was Marvel brain trust. So basically, they got the book cancelled by removing Storm and T'challa. So we can't really blame Mr. Maberry or Mr. Hudlin.

Marvel...Thanks guys.  >:(

The only thing that will fix this is T'challa becoming a member on the A-vengers. Anything less ...is pretty much BS.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 24, 2010, 01:25:18 pm
Of course that assume T'challa survives Doomwar.  Of course, I am starting to suspect based on a comment JM made that Doom maybe banished from earth at the end, and when that happens, T may go with him.  Of course that is pure guesswork.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Kimoyo on May 24, 2010, 05:16:15 pm
Not happy with this news.  Bait and switched, fake bill of goods and so on.  T'Challa has been under/misused for a long time!  Worse than waiting is paying and waiting for the promise of something greater.  I don't want to hear about interesting plans anymore.  We've been buying that for years now.  Show me my money!!!

Mont
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Princesa on May 24, 2010, 05:58:55 pm
I'm very thankful that Mayberry was so candid in his comments and actually they make me feel better. The BP was failing in sales and Marvel rather than cancel it tried inserting Shuri as Panther as a jump start--unfortunately she hemorrhaged sales at an unprecedented rate. At least we know what we complained about was not the creators fault. I hope there are T'Challa/Ororo plans...
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 25, 2010, 11:52:33 am
I'm very thankful that Mayberry was so candid in his comments and actually they make me feel better. The BP was failing in sales and Marvel rather than cancel it tried inserting Shuri as Panther as a jump start--unfortunately she hemorrhaged sales at an unprecedented rate. At least we know what we complained about was not the creators fault. I hope there are T'Challa/Ororo plans...

That not true. Black Panther was not failing in sales. The sales were fine after Jason Aaron's arc...and they were also great during Mr. Hudlin return...they started failing when they decided to make Shuri the Black Panther. That is a fact...yeah the Back to Africa arc the sales were falling...but it's because that arc was not all the intresting to a lot of folks who wanted something more...and they got it with the SI arc by Jason Aaron...you had people who never read the book now wanted to jump on to read about T'challa...and Marvel BLEW IT.

I agree about Mr. Maberry being candid...but it doesn't make me feel better. If they are trying to push a female...then WHY NOT STORM?

Shuri becoming the Black Panther and staying the Black Panther has killed the book. Not the other way around. Even with Doomwar you had fans jump on hoping to see T'challa vs. Doom...and now they are jumping off...because it's not T'challa vs. Doom...but Shuri and the Dora's doing all the action...

If Marvel wanted to help the book, they would give fans what they want. The title should have been retitled Storm and Black Panther...and then get Jason Aaron and Yost to co-write the book...with a good artist...and allow Mr. Maberry to continue to build on Shuri...and Wakanda...then I would agree...but the current moves are only making things worst.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Vic Vega on May 25, 2010, 04:04:10 pm
The sales fell when the Dark Reign crossover ended. THAT'S when everybody jumped off.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 25, 2010, 08:14:36 pm
We also don't know how many dropped the book because the artist change.  New guy was good, but not as exciting as KL.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 26, 2010, 01:51:32 pm
The sales fell when the Dark Reign crossover ended. THAT'S when everybody jumped off.

Nope...they jumped off after Hudlin and Lashley left...AND Shuri became the Black Panther. The numbers show that...not just because of DR. If you still have DR on the title folks would have still jumped. Thus folk complaining about her being the Panther...for example Babs of Comicvine just did a artical blasting Doomwar, but the arcs before.

For example...the SI title didn't even sale much (the trade sold well)...in fact Hudlin's 6 issues out sold it...and Hudlin's issues have out sold Doomwar.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 26, 2010, 02:19:27 pm
<<Nope...they jumped off after Hudlin and Lashley left...AND Shuri became the Black Panther.>>

Except 1-6 is Shuri's origin so blaming her for a drop off may be emphazing the wrong thing.  It may have much more to do with the new writer and artist than Shuri.

If RH and KL stayed on BP and the sales dropped, then you could blame Shuri, but it was obvious early on that Shuri was the new BP and it didn't hurt those sales.

I don't think JM's Shuri and RH are the same "character".  I think JM took her in a completely different direction than where Reggie was leading her, number one being science vs magic.  Reggie's version was embracing "magic" by the end of her origin; JM turned her into a tech head who had other people doing the work. and he made T'challa the mystic.  He got it backwards.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Princesa on May 26, 2010, 04:39:28 pm
The sales of this franchise were trending steadily downward well before Aaron's highly successful  Skrull arc, we discussed what could stop the decline endlessly on here. We argued about it here and CBR were a few haters said this book was doomed (no pun) from the start. That's why there was a relaunch in the first place and yes it did well at first...then we got Shuri and she tanked the ship. She bled in a few months what took a couple years. I know not one person who bought this book for her or who wanted to see T'Challa and Ororo play her second and third fiddle. The opening act of the relaunch was great and did great, opening acts often do,  the 'power arc' was brutal.

So Shuri is getting a mini and that's cool. She will remain BP and I guess that makes since in I don't see a BP book coming back for a while because she can't carry a title. Ms Marvel and She Hulk well established characters, Power Girl, struggle to carry titles. But she has to get out from under T'Challa's shadow so I see them leaving Wakanda. If there are "interesting plans" most likely in the X Men, possibly Avengers. I could see Ororo pregnant. I do see them surfacing somewhere.
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: 4sake on May 26, 2010, 07:31:14 pm
<<Nope...they jumped off after Hudlin and Lashley left...AND Shuri became the Black Panther.>>

Except 1-6 is Shuri's origin so blaming her for a drop off may be emphazing the wrong thing.  It may have much more to do with the new writer and artist than Shuri.

If RH and KL stayed on BP and the sales dropped, then you could blame Shuri, but it was obvious early on that Shuri was the new BP and it didn't hurt those sales.

I don't think JM's Shuri and RH are the same "character".  I think JM took her in a completely different direction than where Reggie was leading her, number one being science vs magic.  Reggie's version was embracing "magic" by the end of her origin; JM turned her into a tech head who had other people doing the work. and he made T'challa the mystic.  He got it backwards.

I disagree... :D
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 26, 2010, 07:35:19 pm
Yeah, But I am always right.  :D
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Princesa on May 26, 2010, 07:37:02 pm
Yeah, But I am always right.  :D

No, I thought we had all agreed that I am  ;)
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: 4sake on May 26, 2010, 08:38:31 pm
Yeah, But I am always right.  :D

I disagree... ;D
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: KIP LEWIS on May 27, 2010, 03:00:46 am
<< Princesa:Quote from: KIP LEWIS on Yesterday at 07:35:19 PMYeah, But I am always right.  :DNo, I thought we had all agreed that I am  ;)>>

Only when you agree with me, then you're always right.   ;)

And 4sake, you are allowed to disagree;  I mean, it makes you wrong, but you're allowed.  GRIN

(Hmmm, how many more posts can we carry this "joke?")
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Jay on May 28, 2010, 03:44:38 pm
Your all wrong.  8)
Title: Re: Doomwar #4 Preview
Post by: Seven on May 30, 2010, 05:14:20 pm
<<Nope...they jumped off after Hudlin and Lashley left...AND Shuri became the Black Panther.>>

Except 1-6 is Shuri's origin so blaming her for a drop off may be emphazing the wrong thing.  It may have much more to do with the new writer and artist than Shuri.

If RH and KL stayed on BP and the sales dropped, then you could blame Shuri, but it was obvious early on that Shuri was the new BP and it didn't hurt those sales.

I don't think JM's Shuri and RH are the same "character".  I think JM took her in a completely different direction than where Reggie was leading her, number one being science vs magic.  Reggie's version was embracing "magic" by the end of her origin; JM turned her into a tech head who had other people doing the work. and he made T'challa the mystic.  He got it backwards.


The thing I am saying is the Hudlin arc was only Dark Reign for 3 issues...after Shuri took over....issue 7 stared downward.


Also Aaron's SI Arc did not out sale Hudlin's DoTS. but it was a classic Panther story...