Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Show Bizness => Writing => Topic started by: Reginald Hudlin on April 27, 2010, 06:45:41 pm

Title: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on April 27, 2010, 06:45:41 pm: Published on The Root (http://www.theroot.com)

Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
By: Todd Boyd
Posted: April 26, 2010 at 12:28 AM

There's a reason why there's never been an adaptation of an August Wilson play at the multiplex. When it comes to the lives of black folks, Hollywood--and the movie-going audience--doesn't do complicated, nuanced or subtle.

The name of the late playwright August Wilson rings like a bell in literary and dramatic circles. Wilson, however, remains an unknown quantity in the world of Hollywood. This giant of the stage and master of dramatic prose has been a non-entity on the silver screen. Why, one might ask, has the work of the Pulitzer Prize and multiple Tony Award winner never been accorded the celebrated Hollywood green light?

The answer to such a question is both simple and complex. The 10 plays that comprise what has been called Wilson's ''Pittsburgh Cycle''--featuring a different drama relative to African-American existence set in each decade of the 20th century--is not your average run-of-the-mill cycle of black representation. The complex, nuanced, dialogue-driven, historical portrait of blackness across the previous century is not easily reducible to the type of rote clichés that often define racial representation in Hollywood these days. Since Wilson was not known for creating gun-toting grandmothers in drag or chicken-stealing incest victims, his work would probably seem alien to those who embrace such examples of postmodern minstrelsy as authentic black life. In the contemporary culture of Hollywood--where tired remakes, unnecessary sequels, big budget sci-fi schlock, and the tedious adaptation of old television shows rules the day--an appreciation of Wilson's more deliberate, methodical approach is about as incongruous as the thought of Alice Waters owning a McDonald's franchise. Wilson's work is too intelligent to survive the dreaded industry development process, where all the creative life is often sucked from potentially brilliant works.

The substance of, say, Fences or The Piano Lesson, is over the heads of people who regard any film with more than three African Americans in it as a ''black film.'' To suggest that Hollywood just doesn't get it is an understatement. For years, going back to the days of the blaxploitation era, Hollywood has routinely tended to categorize most films featuring multiple African Americans as ''black'' regardless of the actual genre of the film itself. The differences between comedies and dramas, biographies and crime sagas all get lumped into one gigantic category known as ''black'' or ''urban.'' The exception to this rule would be those films that feature a movie star like Will Smith. Such star power tends to mean bigger production and marketing budgets along with a predominantly white supporting cast. Yet considering that there's only one Will Smith, unless he decides that he wants to do an August Wilson adaptation, it's probably not going to happen.

Beyond this, the usage of the phrase ''black film'' is generally pejorative in Hollywood, which in turn means a much smaller budget and fewer screens. In other words, the reductive process of Hollywood number crunching tends to elide any distinctions of say gender, class, age, location or genre when it comes to so-called ''black film.'' Blackness in such an environment is regarded as monolithic. August Wilson's sophisticated dramaturgy doesn't easily lend itself to such unfortunate circumstances. With this being the case, attempting to pitch the cinematic value of August Wilson to some superficial doofus in a Hollywood executive suite would be akin to trying to explain astrophysics to a wino.

Yet the thought that Hollywood doesn't get it or doesn't want to get it, is itself nothing novel necessarily. When one considers that Hollywood is on that constant paper chase, what they do get is green, and I'm not talking about the environmental green here either. If in Hollywood's mind August Wilson's Ma Rainey's Black Bottom or Two Trains Running were thought to be potentially profitable, then such film titles would already be in your Netflix queue. I am not saying that such films would or wouldn't be popular at the box office. That would depend on quite a few other business and creative factors, of course. What I am saying is that the process by which Hollywood makes decisions and their rather limited knowledge of African- American culture not classified as pop culture, does not favor something as complex as the work of August Wilson getting made when the industry's view of black life has tended to be much more simplistic.

That being said, this prompts another question. If by chance Hollywood got smarter overnight and decided to green light some August Wilson plays, would people go to see these movies? Sure, some people most certainly would. (And with the exception of Fences, Wilson's plays, while critically acclaimed, garnered no real box office gold.) The legacy of Wilson's work as a playwright and the current, briskly selling revival of Fences starring Denzel Washington and Viola Davis on Broadway attest to continued interest in the celebrated scribe.

But beyond a dedicated following of people knowledgeable of Wilson's career or other theater-minded patrons, how many people would actually find such intelligent work appealing, when for years now all they have seen is one kitschy Tyler Perry ''coonfest'' after another on screen? Would audiences, particularly contemporary African-American audiences, embrace a view of themselves that is not consistent with the type of cinematic cultural pornography that foregrounds rather grotesque stereotypes defined by pathology and dysfunction as genuine black life? Would those same people who have helped to make Tyler Perry so rich easily embrace depictions that were not so broad, melodramatic, and especially, over the top? Could it be that August Wilson's work is too intelligent for both studio heads and certain segments of the movie-going audience?

The PC answer to such a question would chide the industry for not putting such films into the pipeline, but would in turn suggest that if movies of Wilson's plays were made that African-American audiences would indeed be thrilled to see such offerings. I'm not so sure anymore. Many people, in spite of protests that call for more diverse representation, want to keep it simple. They are only interested in the familiar. Because August Wilson's work existed on the Broadway stage, such people might consider it to be too far removed from the church house to be considered authentically black.

August Wilson's plays pose as many questions as they provide answers. Such a posture would be potentially too challenging for movie audiences who have become accustomed to reductive, ham-fisted expressions of religious and moral certitude in recent popular works. In other words, how can audiences of people who have little to no knowledge of the cultural work of historical figures like Lorraine Hansberry, Gordon Parks and Paul Robeson come to appreciate the type of black life writ large that Wilson provided us with? How can you ever appreciate August Wilson if you've never come to appreciate people like Billy Strayhorn, Carmen McRae and Romare Bearden?

Though many today loathe the sort of high culture/pop culture distinctions that I am suggesting here, I find these distinctions to be quite valid. In my mind, the best examples of the culture move freely between high and pop modes, as opposed to being stuck in one gear or the other. Too much high culture alone makes you a square, while too much pop culture alone potentially makes you an idiot. A steady diet of foie gras is no better for you than a steady diet of Popeye's.

When pop culture has come to eclipse high culture, then we have a problem. The same problem would exist if it were the other way around also. August Wilson's work represents some of the best of its kind. But, believe it or not, people are not always interested in the best. Many people want something fast and disposable, not something slow and meditative. So as much as some would want to bemoan the lack of an August Wilson movie, the truth is we are probably better off without it. When one considers the potential desecration of Wilson's work, between the studio's ineptitude and the audience's indifference, we are, at the end of the day, probably better off just leaving well enough alone.

Dr. Todd Boyd is the Katherine and Frank Price Endowed Chair for the Study of Race and Popular Culture and Professor of Critical Studies in the USC School of Cinematic Arts. His blog is Notorious Ph.D.

Become a fan of The Root on Facebook. Follow us on Twitter.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Mastrmynd on April 27, 2010, 08:13:04 pm: Dr. Todd Boyd is that dude!
i really want him to do a movie review show!
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: The Griot on May 23, 2010, 12:45:35 pm: A couple of points. I don't know if you can blame Tyler Perry's movie success on Hollywood. Tyler did it on his own. He began as an outsider and worked his way in. Even his 'minstrely' movies were not seen as being possibly successful.

One point made by the author does raise an interesting question. Would African Americans go see a film based on an August Wilson play. I went to see Fences in Atlanta and was amused by those in the audience that responded to the production as if it was a Tyler Perry play. They laughed at scenes that were supposed to be poignant and yell out to the actors during tense situations. It's like we've been conditioned to expect less about ourselves.

It's a complicated issue indeed.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Mastrmynd on June 16, 2010, 02:49:11 pm: Quote from: The Griot on May 23, 2010, 12:45:35 pm
A couple of points. I don't know if you can blame Tyler Perry's movie success on Hollywood. Tyler did it on his own. He began as an outsider and worked his way in. Even his 'minstrely' movies were not seen as being possibly successful.

One point made by the author does raise an interesting question. Would African Americans go see a film based on an August Wilson play. I went to see Fences in Atlanta and was amused by those in the audience that responded to the production as if it was a Tyler Perry play. They laughed at scenes that were supposed to be poignant and yell out to the actors during tense situations. It's like we've been conditioned to expect less about ourselves.

It's a complicated issue indeed.

it's interesting what you bring up.
those theater-goers have obviously only known "plays" and/or "gospel plays."
for them call and response is supposed to be a part of the viewing enjoyment.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on August 01, 2010, 04:14:28 pm: Why is there an need to use the late August Wilson to attack Tyler Perry? Does there only have to one major black playwright? One way of viewing the African American experience?

Yes, Mr. Wilson was no Tyler Perry. Perry found a way to connect and cultivate on a mass level in a way that Mr. Wilson never did. Not saying he wanted to. To be honest, I know little about Mr. Wilson. I'm sure that Mr. Wilson's work-which I haven't read-is pretty good and more than likely better than Mr. Perry's-but Perry has found a way to make his work connect, he is writing to and about black people right now.

This is a question bigger than this made up conflict. One could argue this point about black dramas v. black comedies, conscious hip hop v. gangsta, etc.

I think we've got to find a way to embrace all aspects of our experience, the good and the bad. There's no one right way to do things or see things. True, there are things I would rather we focus on entertainment wise, but I don't think its fair to bash Perry for that necessarily, especially using Wilson's legacy and work to do it. Nor do I think its cool to look down on Perry's fans because that's a big cross section of black folks.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: moor on August 01, 2010, 04:54:18 pm: Quote from: Emperorjones on August 01, 2010, 04:14:28 pm
Why is there an need to use the late August Wilson to attack Tyler Perry? Does there only have to one major black playwright? One way of viewing the African American experience?

Yes, Mr. Wilson was no Tyler Perry. Perry found a way to connect and cultivate on a mass level in a way that Mr. Wilson never did. Not saying he wanted to. To be honest, I know little about Mr. Wilson. I'm sure that Mr. Wilson's work-which I haven't read-is pretty good and more than likely better than Mr. Perry's-but Perry has found a way to make his work connect, he is writing to and about black people right now.

This is a question bigger than this made up conflict. One could argue this point about black dramas v. black comedies, conscious hip hop v. gangsta, etc.

I think we've got to find a way to embrace all aspects of our experience, the good and the bad. There's no one right way to do things or see things. True, there are things I would rather we focus on entertainment wise, but I don't think its fair to bash Perry for that necessarily, especially using Wilson's legacy and work to do it. Nor do I think its cool to look down on Perry's fans because that's a big cross section of black folks.

I wonder if Bill Shakespeare ever got put through the ringer like this when he was alive?

A lot of call and response at his shows too, from what I've read...
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on August 02, 2010, 03:04:39 am: ^
I agree. From what I remember of English class, Shakespeare's stuff wasn't just for the nobility, it was for the masses.

If this Dr. Boyd wanted to critique Perry, just do that, without bringing August Wilson into it and creating a false comparison. I think this Dr. Boyd just wants to take black folks to task about something-whether it be BET or Tyler Perry-and right now I have no desire to be taken to task. If you like low brow, broad comedy, or even straight up coonery, then you like it. Wrapping someone's knuckles about it isn't going to deter them from liking it and more than likely will make them hold on to it even harder. I would prefer there be more balance, a mix of high and low entertainment, but people got to make up their own minds. Perry's work speaks to people in a way that Wilson's doesn't. Perhaps that's marketing and exposure, perhaps Wilson's requires a bit more intellectual investment, I don't know.

Or maybe people don't care for all the solemn stuff. Or the appearance that Wilson's work is solemn, stuffy, cloaked in the 'theater', whereas Perry's is far more accessible and let me repeat, talking about stuff now. Complete with pop cultural references that people understand and can relate to. In a way this reminds me of a Terry McMillan interview, I think it was on Oprah, in which she was talking about Waiting to Exhale and why it took off. Before that, most books about the black experience were centered around the Civil Rights Movement, at that time 20 years past, whereas Exhale was about black people's contemporary lives, and she was right in gauging that people were interested in reading about themselves and how they were living right now. I see Perry's work in a similar vein, in comparison to Wilson. Even though I still don't think its a legit comparison. Why not compare Perry to Lorraine Hansberry or Amiri Baraka for that matter?
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on August 02, 2010, 05:07:26 pm: I didn't take Dr. Boyd's piece as clowning Tyler Perry. Why not compare and contrast two of our most prolific black playwrights? The high culture / pop culture contrast seems dead on to me. Pointing out that we often don't choose the profound stuff is hardly a revelation. He does advocate a balanced diet.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on August 02, 2010, 07:06:03 pm: "when for years now all they have seen is one kitschy Tyler Perry ''coonfest'' after another on screen?"

I never understood why ppl like Todd & Spike Lee think Tyler Perry stuff is "coonfest." Alot of his movies are deep & talk about domestic violence, rape, racism & god. Alot of his movies show good black fathers and strong independent black smart women.........sh*t THAT NON EXIST EVERYWHERE ELSE.

Now Lee Daniels (Monster's balls, Precious, etc.) is a house negro, that should be attack.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on August 02, 2010, 09:12:45 pm: I am in agreement that Lee Daniels is far more egregrious. At least Perry's movies generally end on a hopeful note and have characters that are resourceful and have faith or find it by the end of the film, or if not faith, family and/or love of some sort. I think Perry has used stereotyping, but so has Spike Lee.

Though Do the Right Thing gets praised to the high heavens, almost every black person in the movie was portrayed in a negative light. Mookie was lazy and trying to get over, Buggin' Out was doing just that, the old black men sitting on their asses complaining about the industrious Korean guy, Radio Raheem walking through the hood like a black brute, etc. Spike has blown up stereotypes or turned them inside out with movies like Bamboozled, but he has also employed them from time to time.

I don't think Perry is perfect however, he has a colorism issue IMO. Too many of his villains are dark skinned and the heroes are light, pertaining to the male characters. Don't know what's up with that.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 09, 2010, 04:40:47 pm: Quote from: Emperorjones on August 02, 2010, 09:12:45 pm
I am in agreement that Lee Daniels is far more egregrious. At least Perry's movies generally end on a hopeful note and have characters that are resourceful and have faith or find it by the end of the film, or if not faith, family and/or love of some sort. I think Perry has used stereotyping, but so has Spike Lee.

Though Do the Right Thing gets praised to the high heavens, almost every black person in the movie was portrayed in a negative light. Mookie was lazy and trying to get over, Buggin' Out was doing just that, the old black men sitting on their asses complaining about the industrious Korean guy, Radio Raheem walking through the hood like a black brute, etc. Spike has blown up stereotypes or turned them inside out with movies like Bamboozled, but he has also employed them from time to time.

I don't think Perry is perfect however, he has a colorism issue IMO. Too many of his villains are dark skinned and the heroes are light, pertaining to the male characters. Don't know what's up with that.

Woah, woah, woah! :D

Lee Daniels' pieces may be dark and dreary, but that's reality for a lot people. Most situations don't end up with a light skinned blue collar worker swooping in to save our poor, but STRONG BLACK WOMAN heroine off her feet and taking her to an obligatory church service! :D :D :D

And let's not get it twisted; Perry is currently the biggest mainstream offender of showcasing Black stereotypes. Spike Lee may have less than positive characters in his films, but that's kinda the point. No one in Do The Right Thing was supposed to be "the good guy or the bad guy". The film works on a much more complex level than that. People are complicated animals. No one is all good or or all bad. No character in any Spike Lee movie even comes close to these clowns:

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSA3oxmBbyc2wLczY2jdROVTeq8At-ogNKo0dTzSwh0LPM2HTU&t=1&usg=__FnHtmcYSS1TEa6OhU19fzcTXN5s=)

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMbwYpkXcy3qpInsPCJ1vjvwf0vOoaFBw8ATpJikAJrLzE550&t=1&usg=__T-Aof_OK8fIaLhphcNSVNkxHx2A=)
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 09, 2010, 04:53:18 pm: OK, so wait...
Boyd wrote, like, a twelve paragraph article calling attention to a great playwright like Wilson, and all most of you got out of it was an attack on Perry?
Really?
Wow.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am: Quote from: voodoochild on August 09, 2010, 04:40:47 pm
Quote from: Emperorjones on August 02, 2010, 09:12:45 pm
I am in agreement that Lee Daniels is far more egregrious. At least Perry's movies generally end on a hopeful note and have characters that are resourceful and have faith or find it by the end of the film, or if not faith, family and/or love of some sort. I think Perry has used stereotyping, but so has Spike Lee.

Though Do the Right Thing gets praised to the high heavens, almost every black person in the movie was portrayed in a negative light. Mookie was lazy and trying to get over, Buggin' Out was doing just that, the old black men sitting on their asses complaining about the industrious Korean guy, Radio Raheem walking through the hood like a black brute, etc. Spike has blown up stereotypes or turned them inside out with movies like Bamboozled, but he has also employed them from time to time.

I don't think Perry is perfect however, he has a colorism issue IMO. Too many of his villains are dark skinned and the heroes are light, pertaining to the male characters. Don't know what's up with that.

Woah, woah, woah! :D

Lee Daniels' pieces may be dark and dreary, but that's reality for a lot people. Most situations don't end up with a light skinned blue collar worker swooping in to save our poor, but STRONG BLACK WOMAN heroine off her feet and taking her to an obligatory church service! :D :D :D

And let's not get it twisted; Perry is currently the biggest mainstream offender of showcasing Black stereotypes. Spike Lee may have less than positive characters in his films, but that's kinda the point. No one in Do The Right Thing was supposed to be "the good guy or the bad guy". The film works on a much more complex level than that. People are complicated animals. No one is all good or or all bad. No character in any Spike Lee movie even comes close to these clowns:

([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSA3oxmBbyc2wLczY2jdROVTeq8At-ogNKo0dTzSwh0LPM2HTU&t=1&usg=__FnHtmcYSS1TEa6OhU19fzcTXN5s=[/url])

([url]http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMbwYpkXcy3qpInsPCJ1vjvwf0vOoaFBw8ATpJikAJrLzE550&t=1&usg=__T-Aof_OK8fIaLhphcNSVNkxHx2A=[/url])

Alot of Lee's work r just praising white supremacy.

Monster's Ball:

The black chick was so horny & lonely that she had to had sex with a white racist that killed her hubby on the first nite.

Tennessee:

2 white boys go on a journey, along the way they "saved" a black woman from her controlling black husband. So the black woman go on a road trip with 2 white guys she don't know.

Precious:

pppfttttttttttt, i am not even gonna get into that bullsh*t.

Madea is not that bad. She is just over the top with everything. Including helping people.

Mr. Brown is stupid & with a big kind heart............FOR BLACK PPL... not just white ppl.

You also got to give extra prop for Tyler Perry having more black ppl star in his films then Spike Lee & other. Granted, Tyler Perry is annoying with the "dark skin man is evil" but the man aint a sell out.

To your 2nd post:

What is the point of bringing another black man down, to raise another up?? That type of sh*t annoyed me, how come the writer didn't diss white, azn & latin directors?
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Vic Vega on August 11, 2010, 08:54:13 am: Folks saw the last production of "Fences" for Denzel.

If he hadn't been part of the production I know I would not have even heard about it.

Charles Dutton (of Roc fame )originally starred in The Piano Lession. But star power can't help if the audience doesn't know about it.

Wilson's stuff isn't exactly marketed to Black audiences (none of the Broadway theater is, really) plus Broadway isn't cheap. Perry's stuff, on the other hand, is marketed towards the black community.

I think Black folks would have come out to see Denzel in Fences if A) they'd known about it and B) it wouldn't break the bank to go see him.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 11, 2010, 05:01:50 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am

Alot of Lee's work r just praising white supremacy.

Monster's Ball:

The black chick was so horny & lonely that she had to had sex with a white racist that killed her hubby on the first nite.

That's an extremely simplistic and limited view of what was going on in that film, but...OK. ??? Besides, Lee didn't direct or write this film. He only produced it.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
Tennessee:

2 white boys go on a journey, along the way they "saved" a black woman from her controlling black husband. So the black woman go on a road trip with 2 white guys she don't know.

Didn't see Tennessee, but like Monster's Ball, Lee didn't write or direct this film either.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
Precious:

pppfttttttttttt, i am not even gonna get into that bullsh*t.

OK, Lee did direct this one, but I don't see how this film praised white supremacy. Sure, it dealt with black on black abuse, but white supremacy??? ???

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
Madea is not that bad. She is just over the top with everything. Including helping people.

Mr. Brown is stupid & with a big kind heart............FOR BLACK PPL... not just white ppl.

OK, you want to talk about white supremacy and black filmmakers? Cool. Then look no further than your boy Tyler Perry. Let's take Madea. A big black man like Perry decides to play the main role, his most famous character, in drag. In effect, emasculating himself, to play this part. You're telling me that he couldn't find an actual actress to be Madea? He had to put on the wig, boobs and dress himself? Seriously? And I'm supposed to treat this sh*t like it has some credibility or validity as serious art? C'mon, man.

Then we've got Mr. Brown. An old school coon. You could put this fool in a movie with Bojangles and Stepin Fetchit and no one would bat an eye! Brown almost single handedly sets Black cinematic images back sixty years.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
You also got to give extra prop for Tyler Perry having more black ppl star in his films then Spike Lee & other. Granted, Tyler Perry is annoying with the "dark skin man is evil" but the man aint a sell out.

I'll grant you that Perry employs a lot of black talent that you don't normally see in more mainstream films, and I do give him props for that, but Spike and his peers have been employing black actors since the 80's. I know Perry is the flavor of the month, but let's put some things in perspective. :D Besides, his mostly black casts don't absolve him from criticism. Black actors worked consistently in TV and film during the early 70's and that entire era gets heavily criticized.
Perry's skin color issues absolutely make him a sellout. By casting predominately light skinned actors in hero roles and dark skin actors in villain roles, he's reinforcing the idea that BLACK is BAD and WHITE(or LIGHT in his films) is GOOD.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 07:32:49 am
To your 2nd post:

What is the point of bringing another black man down, to raise another up?? That type of sh*t annoyed me, how come the writer didn't diss white, azn & latin directors?

Well, first of all, white, asian, and latin directors aren't the point. Boyd's talking about BLACK entertainment. He's talking about the difficulty of adapting for the cinema work as nuanced and complex as Wilson's plays to audiences accustomed to the simplistic--
Wait.
Aren't you doing the same thing you accuse Boyd of doing by bringing Spike Lee into this?
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on August 11, 2010, 09:49:23 pm: "That's an extremely simplistic and limited view of what was going on in that film, but...OK. ??? Besides, Lee didn't direct or write this film. He only produced it."

So why would he produced such films like that? You would never see something like that with a white jew woman and a nazi man. Halle only won the Oscar, cause she f*cked a white man. And that was the main point of the film.

"OK, Lee did direct this one, but I don't see how this film praised white supremacy. Sure, it dealt with black on black abuse, but white supremacy??????"

The main character is an ugly, fat, dark skin, stupid 16 yr. old kid with 2 kids. She has sexual fantasies about her white teacher & when she look into a mirror she see herself as a skinny white blonde. Mariah, Paula & Lenny the light skinned mixed ppl are the only ppl that help Precious. Also add this to the fact: Lee wanted white ppl to like this film........BADLY.

That's some sell out thinking there. White ppl love this film to death.......that shows that this film is bad. White ppl weren't jumping up & down in joy for "Malcom X." Just like films like: Freedom Writers, Dangerous Minds, etc. it stating that black ppl are less then humans and made these situations (being poor, drugs, etc.) entirely by ourselves. While the white ppl are only helping us out, showing that African culture is evil & that white people never did anything wrong to contribute to the horror of black ppl. Also these films being based on "true stories" just make white ppl more happy.

Mad TV - Nice White Lady

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CopdTKyghY4

LOL^ a funny ass skit to show what I am saying. I am with Paul Mooney, "a demon wrote this film."

"OK, you want to talk about white supremacy and black filmmakers? Cool. Then look no further than your boy Tyler Perry. Let's take Madea. A big black man like Perry decides to play the main role, his most famous character, in drag. In effect, emasculating himself, to play this part. You're telling me that he couldn't find an actual actress to be Madea? He had to put on the wig, boobs and dress himself? Seriously? And I'm supposed to treat this sh*t like it has some credibility or validity as serious art? C'mon, man."

Madea is just the comedy relief. Usually it about serious stuff and Madea is never the main star of the shows/movies. Medea show up do something funny and they get right into the rape, violence, god, etc. topic again. Most of Tyler Perry movies are comedy dramas, so course there need to be something funny in there.

"Then we've got Mr. Brown. An old school coon. You could put this fool in a movie with Bojangles and Stepin Fetchit and no one would bat an eye! Brown almost single handedly sets Black cinematic images back sixty years."

He is nice to everyone & it mostly to black ppl. Bojangles, Stepin Fetchit, Uncle Remus, etc. were happy go lucky slaves to only white folk. That's the big difference there.

"I'll grant you that Perry employs a lot of black talent that you don't normally see in more mainstream films, and I do give him props for that, but Spike and his peers have been employing black actors since the 80's. I know Perry is the flavor of the month, but let's put some things in perspective. :D Besides, his mostly black casts don't absolve him from criticism. Black actors worked consistently in TV and film during the early 70's and that entire era gets heavily criticized.
Perry's skin color issues absolutely make him a sellout. By casting predominately light skinned actors in hero roles and dark skin actors in villain roles, he's reinforcing the idea that BLACK is BAD and WHITE(or LIGHT in his films) is GOOD."

I even said that's only problem I have Tyler Perry films. But, Tyler seem to be putting more dark skin heroes in his work like: Curtis Payne, Daddy's Little Girls's Idris Elba, etc. But he is not a sell out cause he had a hard time into getting hollywood and tv white execs to help him. B/c Tyler Perry want to produce movies/shows with just all black casts. Lee Daniels, never had that problem with the films he produced and/or directed. I mean did Spike Lee, Singleton, etc. ever display a dark skin sista as sexy in their work? Are they also sell outs, cause they never did that? No, they're not.

Tyler Perry need to do more disrespectful stuff to blacks in order to be a sell out. At the end of the day, Tyler Perry put more black ppl in his work then Spike Lee & other. Spike Lee like to include racist white ppl in his films, while Tyler Perry like to focus more on our own black world. They are not perfect, but we still gonna love & respect what they are doing something positive for us black folks.

"Well, first of all, white, asian, and latin directors aren't the point. Boyd's talking about BLACK entertainment. He's talking about the difficulty of adapting for the cinema work as nuanced and complex as Wilson's plays to audiences accustomed to the simplistic--
Wait.
Aren't you doing the same thing you accuse Boyd of doing by bringing Spike Lee into this?"

Yeah, they are pointless. Not really, if I am writing how wonderful Spike Lee is, I wouldn't insult any other black directors along the way. I brought up Spike Lee cause he was dissing Tyler Perry as well. Boyd, knows that him dissing Tyler Perry would the the highlight of his writing. And I am tired of black hollywood tearing each other down.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 12, 2010, 10:44:26 am: First off, all that bullsh*t about Halle only getting an oscar because she had sex with a white man is childish nonsense. There absolutely NO factual evidence supporting that "claim". C'mon man. We've gotta be better than that. You'd have to ask Lee Daniels what his criteria is when choosing his projects. It seems to me that Daniels is not afraid of controversy. He doesn't make lowest common denominator films. His films are tough to deal with and aren't made for general audiences. Precious having a color complex is one of the points of the film. Daniels isn't promoting white supremacy. He's showing you a victim of white supremacy. Daniels has color issues (just like your boy), but the difference between Daniels and Perry is that Daniels isn't afraid to hold up a mirror and examine those issues. Daniels confronts uncomfortable situations head on, whether the audience likes it or not.
Perry on the other hand wants to have it both ways. He likes to introduce tough subject matter, but then not really deal with it. Instead he tosses in some juvenile bullsh*t with Madea or Mr Brown to soften the edges and wraps everything up in a nice little obligatory church service. He's a very condescending, dishonest filmmaker. Does he employ a lot of black talent. Absolutely, and he deserves credit for that. Is he a vain and arrogant man? Absolutely. Any "artist" that feels the need to put his name over EVERY title he produces, and then give himself top billing, whether he was the "lead" has got esteem issues. TYLER PERRY PRESENTS... A TYLER PERRY PRODUCTION... WRITTEN BY TYLER PERRY...DIRECTED BY TYLER PERRY...STARRING TYLER PERRY... :D :D :D:D

If Madea's not the star of the movies, then why does every movie s/he's in have his/her name in the title? That's dishonest.

And why does he have to play the part? I asked before, and I'll ask again. When he originally conceived of the part, why him? Why not a real middle aged woman to play the part of...a middle aged woman?

Mr Brown being nice to everyone doesn't make him any less of a clown and a damaging, insulting stereotype. Stepin Fetchit, Bojangles, etc were at least the products of their time. There is NO excuse for a creation like Brown to exist in a modern realistic setting. Again, dishonest film making.

Look, just because Perry "struggled" to get into Hollywood --which is actually not true. He made his fame in the chitlin circuit. When he went to Hollywood, he already had a name and built in audience, so he never actually "struggled" to get into the Hollywood system. Diary of a mad black woman the movie was made independently with his own money I believe. He took the finished product to the studios, they put it out and his built in audience came out in droves. Lionsgate signed him to a deal. That's not struggling in Hollywood. I'm not knocking his hustle, but let's be real about it. Hundreds of black filmmakers are actually struggling everyday to get their stuff out without built in audiences or sweetheart distribution deals. Daniels and Lee are a part of that group. Do a search on either of them and listen to them talk about how difficult it is to find $ for their films. Get your facts straight, brother.

Spike Lee has been giving us sexy dark skinned sisters since he started in the business. As a matter of fact, he actually casts across the spectrum. What are you talking about? Tracy Camilla Johns(ok, more caramel, I guess)in She's Gotta Have It. Kyme in School Daze. Angela Basset in Malcom X. Alfre Woodard in Crooklyn. Regina Taylor was in Clockers--small role, but she still looked good ;D. You get my point.
Spike includes racist white people in his films? Well, yeah, if that's what the film call for. Again, what are you talking about? ??? :D A lot of Spike's films deal with race. You kinda need racist whites in a film dealing with racism. Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist. He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum. In that way, he mirrors reality. Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces.

And if you really think that Boyd's article was just about dissing Perry, I suggest you re-read it. :D
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Vic Vega on August 12, 2010, 11:19:22 am: Perry and Daniels collborated on Precious.

I'm not sure these guys see themselves as thematically as far apart as all that.

On the other hand, to hear him talk, you would thank that Spike'd swallow lye before he would ever work with Perry.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 12, 2010, 01:17:34 pm: Quote from: Vic Vega on August 12, 2010, 11:19:22 am
Perry and Daniels collborated on Precious.

I'm not sure these guys see themselves as thematically as far apart as all that.

On the other hand, to hear him talk, you would thank that Spike'd swallow lye before he would ever work with Perry.

True. Perry did executive produce Precious. Hmm, I wonder how that affects Afro Samurai's argument? ;)

Anyway, I didn't mean for this to devolve into a Perry vs Daniels argument. Or any director vs any director argument for that matter because that wasn't even the point of the article. So apologies for the thread derail. ;D
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm: "First off, all that bullsh*t about Halle only getting an oscar because she had sex with a white man is childish nonsense. There absolutely NO factual evidence supporting that "claim". C'mon man. We've gotta be better than that."[/i]

Dude, stop being in denial. You know she won that cause of the sex scene.

"You'd have to ask Lee Daniels what his criteria is when choosing his projects. It seems to me that Daniels is not afraid of controversy. He doesn't make lowest common denominator films. His films are tough to deal with and aren't made for general audiences. Precious having a color complex is one of the points of the film. Daniels isn't promoting white supremacy. He's showing you a victim of white supremacy. Daniels has color issues (just like your boy), but the difference between Daniels and Perry is that Daniels isn't afraid to hold up a mirror and examine those issues. Daniels confronts uncomfortable situations head on, whether the audience likes it or not."

Lee Daniels already have a track record of promoting white supremacy & I already said that Tyler Perry does have color issues. How doe the movie: "Precious" show the girl is the victim of white supremacy when only the light skin mixed ppl & that white teacher were helping her??

"Perry on the other hand wants to have it both ways. He likes to introduce tough subject matter, but then not really deal with it. Instead he tosses in some juvenile bullsh*t with Madea or Mr Brown to soften the edges and wraps everything up in a nice little obligatory church service. He's a very condescending, dishonest filmmaker."

It's a comedy dramas. They need comedy in there somewhere, unless it'll be all drama.

"Does he employ a lot of black talent. Absolutely, and he deserves credit for that. Is he a vain and arrogant man? Absolutely. Any "artist" that feels the need to put his name over EVERY title he produces, and then give himself top billing, whether he was the "lead" has got esteem issues. TYLER PERRY PRESENTS... A TYLER PERRY PRODUCTION... WRITTEN BY TYLER PERRY...DIRECTED BY TYLER PERRY...STARRING TYLER PERRY... Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy:D"

LMAO, ok now you just have a personal vendetta against the man. Spike Lee does the samething with "it's a spike lee joint." It called self promotion & to raise his status higher as a director/producer/actor.......aint nothing wrong with that. "Tyler Perry Present" his is "branding"... that's a smart business move & I love when black ppl brag about ourselves.

"If Madea's not the star of the movies, then why does every movie s/he's in have his/her name in the title? That's dishonest.

And why does he have to play the part? I asked before, and I'll ask again. When he originally conceived of the part, why him? Why not a real middle aged woman to play the part of...a middle aged woman?"

So more people can see it. Like how Blade 3, wasn't really about Blade at all. Also it could be the name of the original play & Tyler want ppl who liked that play to watch the movie with the same name. Movie, music, etc. that we don't like will always be dishonest in our opinions.

From the movie trailers saying it "magical, wonderful, experience" to the rapper saying "its his best work since his first album".... and us completely disagreeing with those statements will be dishonest TO US. I don't know why Tyler Perry choose to act in drag. Maybe he thought it was funnier that way. But, I really don't know why and I don't see any problem with him acting in drag. Also, Spike Lee starred in his own films as well.

"Mr Brown being nice to everyone doesn't make him any less of a clown and a damaging, insulting stereotype. Stepin Fetchit, Bojangles, etc were at least the products of their time. There is NO excuse for a creation like Brown to exist in a modern realistic setting. Again, dishonest film making."

He is not a happy go lucky slave to white folk. He's just a stupid kind man that is a Deacon. That more Bojangles will ever be.

"Look, just because Perry "struggled" to get into Hollywood --which is actually not true. He made his fame in the chitlin circuit. When he went to Hollywood, he already had a name and built in audience, so he never actually "struggled" to get into the Hollywood system. Diary of a mad black woman the movie was made independently with his own money I believe. He took the finished product to the studios, they put it out and his built in audience came out in droves."

He had to fight to keep the whole cast black in his movies & tv shows. Hollywood wanted to add more white folks, Tyler Perry said no and did it his own way. He had to show and prove that black ppl & other races like black movies. Hollywood don't even acknowledge black consumers.

"Lionsgate signed him to a deal. That's not struggling in Hollywood. I'm not knocking his hustle, but let's be real about it. Hundreds of black filmmakers are actually struggling everyday to get their stuff out without built in audiences or sweetheart distribution deals. Daniels and Lee are a part of that group. Do a search on either of them and listen to them talk about how difficult it is to find $ for their films. Get your facts straight, brother."

Tyler Perry had to shop around for a deal (got turned down alot) & Lionsgate accepted him cause they was smart. It has always been "the chosen few" to make it in hollywood & ppl like Tyler Perry is one of them. You know John Singleton had hard time looking for studios to produce hustle & flow, rite? Tyler Perry also talk about studios not backing him on Black America on CNN.

WHITE HOLLYWOOD STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE IN HIM AFTER ALL OF HIS SUCCESSFUL MOVIES TO FUND "House Of Payne" at the very beginning (he funded it himself). A struggle is a struggle. Some are the worst then other.

"Spike Lee has been giving us sexy dark skinned sisters since he started in the business. As a matter of fact, he actually casts across the spectrum. What are you talking about? Tracy Camilla Johns(ok, more caramel, I guess)in She's Gotta Have It. Kyme in School Daze. Angela Basset in Malcom X. Alfre Woodard in Crooklyn. Regina Taylor was in Clockers--small role, but she still looked good Grin. You get my point."

Kyme is the only dark skin woman you mention & I never saw the film School Daze (so I am not gonna comment on it). The rest are brown skin. Dark skin: Kelly Rowland, Naomi Campbell,. Buffie The Body, etc. So, my point still stands. There need to more dark skin female leads like "How She Move."

"Spike includes racist white people in his films? Well, yeah, if that's what the film call for. Again, what are you talking about? Huh Cheesy A lot of Spike's films deal with race. You kinda need racist whites in a film dealing with racism."

And that is problem: white ppl getting pay by black to say niggar in films. Shoot, alot of white racist folks would love to do that. That my only pet peeve about those type of films. You can make a movie about racism without white ppl. You just need to be creative.

"Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist. He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum. In that way, he mirrors reality. Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces.

LOL, progress as an artist? You don't need to change the race of your characters in order to progress. Fighting aliens in space? Becoming a superhero? You can still make them blacks. SINCE WHEN TV, VIDEOGAMES, MOVIES, EVER BEEN REALISTIC WITH RACES? Look at "Friend", "Kick-Ass", tons of tons of white stuff. Why can't black movies be the same way?? That why 'Waiting To Exhale" was such a huge success. It was a different black book, cause it wasn't about white ppl being evil.

"And if you really think that Boyd's article was just about dissing Perry, I suggest you re-read it. Cheesy"

Boy, when did I ever said that? Don't put words in my mouth & BOYD knew that him dissing Tyler Perry would get his stuff more media attention. Boyd dissing Tyler was MY MAIN FOCUS.

"True. Perry did executive produce Precious. Hmm, I wonder how that affects Afro Samurai's argument? Wink"

My point still stand about Tyler Perry. I guess you're now a Tyler Perry fan since he produced a movie you're sticking up for.

"Anyway, I didn't mean for this to devolve into a Perry vs Daniels argument. Or any director vs any director argument for that matter because that wasn't even the point of the article. So apologies for the thread derail. Grin"

Boyd shouldn't had mention Tyler Perry name at all.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 16, 2010, 12:55:00 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm

Dude, stop being in denial. You know she won that cause of the sex scene.

:D Dog, what are you, twelve? You don't actually believe that, do you? :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
Lee Daniels already have a track record of promoting white supremacy & I already said that Tyler Perry does have color issues. How doe the movie: "Precious" show the girl is the victim of white supremacy when only the light skin mixed ppl & that white teacher were helping her??

Repetition of an opinion doesn't make it a fact. We've shown that Perry has some type of color issues due to many of his casting choices. However you have yet to prove that Daniels promotes white supremacy. Does he also have color issues? Maybe. Casting strictly bi-racial heroes in Precious was puzzling. But Daniels' only other directorial effort was the little seen Shadowboxer with Cuba Gooding as the lead. Using Monster's Ball and Tennessee to try to "prove" your claim is weak as Daniels didn't write or direct either film.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
It's a comedy dramas. They need comedy in there somewhere, unless it'll be all drama.

Nobody's saying his films shouldn't have comedic elements in them. Even the most tragedy filled life has light moments. The problem with Perry's films, particularly the ones with Madea or Brown in them, is that the humor is so broad and outrageous that it undercuts the heavy-handed drama of the rest of the film. Take Meet the Browns for instance. In it, he shows us the oldest son getting seduced by the streets and ultimately shot in the back. Then Perry shoehorns all of these slapstick antics of Brown and co. which ultimately dilute the main storyline. His comic relief characters don't fit. It's not like these are characters who get in a humorous line or two. Madea and Brown are full out clowns They're caricatures from stupid sitcoms, not fleshed out, fully realized characters. Perry's trying to jam a round peg into a square hole. A more talented writer/director could maybe make these contradictions work within the narrative, but Perry ain't that dude. LOL!

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
LMAO, ok now you just have a personal vendetta against the man. Spike Lee does the samething with "it's a spike lee joint." It called self promotion & to raise his status higher as a director/producer/actor.......aint nothing wrong with that. "Tyler Perry Present" his is "branding"... that's a smart business move & I love when black ppl brag about ourselves.

Not at all. Spike Lee actually does not do the same thing. He drops "A Spike Lee Joint" in his credits and one sheets and leaves it at that. That's self promotion. Perry has to put his name FIRST. Even over the title of the damn movie (which tells you what he thinks is more important ;D). And then, as the credits roll, his name is peppered throughout. He even gave himself top billing over Angela Basset in Meet the Browns. What kind of bullsh*t is that? :D Look, talent speaks louder than self aggrandizement. Perry isn't promoting himself. He's masturbating to his own delusion of grandeur. He's like the P. Diddy of cinema. A great self promoter with minimal actual talent.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
So more people can see it. Like how Blade 3, wasn't really about Blade at all. Also it could be the name of the original play & Tyler want ppl who liked that play to watch the movie with the same name. Movie, music, etc. that we don't like will always be dishonest in our opinions.

??? ??? That doesn't even make sense. What does Blade 3 have to do with every Tyler Perry film being officially listed as Tyler Perry's...insert actual film title here...? If he thinks that he has to put his name in front of every one of his productions to make sure his audience knows that it's his and it's safe to attend, that shows that he has no actual faith in his audience.

TP Fan #1: Hey girl, there's a new Madea movie staring this weekend. Want to go?
TP Fan #2: Ion't know chile. Is Tyler's name on it? I don't wanna see no movie with a bunch a' cussin' and stuff in it.
TP Fan #1: Girl it's Madea. Of course it's Tyler's. It's got incest and drug abuse in it but you know it ain't got no cussin' in it.
TP Fan #2: Well...I guess. You sure it's Tyler's movie?
TP Fan #1: Girl...

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
From the movie trailers saying it "magical, wonderful, experience" to the rapper saying "its his best work since his first album".... and us completely disagreeing with those statements will be dishonest TO US. I don't know why Tyler Perry choose to act in drag. Maybe he thought it was funnier that way. But, I really don't know why and I don't see any problem with him acting in drag. Also, Spike Lee starred in his own films as well.

Spike does act in many of his own films, but the difference is he doesn't feel the need to list the supporting character he plays over his actual lead character. Nor does he put his name first over the actual title of the movie. Spike promotes the movie. Perry promotes Perry. You seem to be a Tyler Perry 'Stan' so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with him acting in drag. :D j/k

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
He is not a happy go lucky slave to white folk. He's just a stupid kind man that is a Deacon. That more Bojangles will ever be.

OK, now you're not even arguing logically. :D :D Of course Brown isn't a happy go lucky slave. His character is a modern one, not one set in the 19th century. What Brown is though is a happy go lucky colored buffoon lifted directly from the exact same caricatures and stereotypes that Stepin Fetchit, etc were forced to play back in the early to mid 20th century. Here's the contradiction and hypocrisy with Perry fans; if Brown was created by a white writer/director, they would be, rightly so, screaming for blood. But since he was created and promoted by their boy Perry, it's OK. Absolute bullsh*t. :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
He had to fight to keep the whole cast black in his movies & tv shows. Hollywood wanted to add more white folks, Tyler Perry said no and did it his own way. He had to show and prove that black ppl & other races like black movies. Hollywood don't even acknowledge black consumers.

I'll give you that. Hollywood doesn't acknowledge Black consumers. That doesn't excuse Perry from talking down to us and lowering the collective expectation of Black audiences though.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm

Kyme is the only dark skin woman you mention & I never saw the film School Daze (so I am not gonna comment on it). The rest are brown skin. Dark skin: Kelly Rowland, Naomi Campbell,. Buffie The Body, etc. So, my point still stands. There need to more dark skin female leads like "How She Move."

You've never seen School Daze? What?? To Netflix with you sir! Stat! You know that none of those personalities you just mentioned are actual actresses right? They've never appeared in Spike's, Daniels', or Perry's films. I'm just saying...

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
And that is problem: white ppl getting pay by black to say niggar in films. Shoot, alot of white racist folks would love to do that. That my only pet peeve about those type of films. You can make a movie about racism without white ppl. You just need to be creative.

So, now I'm really confused. Are you suggesting Spike should have made Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing, and Malcolm X without whites? ??? How is that even possible? Are you kidding?

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
LOL, progress as an artist? You don't need to change the race of your characters in order to progress. Fighting aliens in space? Becoming a superhero? You can still make them blacks. SINCE WHEN TV, VIDEOGAMES, MOVIES, EVER BEEN REALISTIC WITH RACES? Look at "Friend", "Kick-Ass", tons of tons of white stuff. Why can't black movies be the same way?? That why 'Waiting To Exhale" was such a huge success. It was a different black book, cause it wasn't about white ppl being evil.

Again, your post here doesn't even make contextual sense. What does that rant have to do with Perry, Boyd, Daniels, or Lee? Who's changing races? What does Waiting to Exhale/Kick-Ass/Friends have to do with anything? What are you talking about?

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
Boy, when did I ever said that? Don't put words in my mouth & BOYD knew that him dissing Tyler Perry would get his stuff more media attention. Boyd dissing Tyler was MY MAIN FOCUS.

Sigh...

Quote
Not really, if I am writing how wonderful Spike Lee is, I wouldn't insult any other black directors along the way. I brought up Spike Lee cause he was dissing Tyler Perry as well. Boyd, knows that him dissing Tyler Perry would the the highlight of his writing. And I am tired of black hollywood tearing each other down.

;D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
My point still stand about Tyler Perry. I guess you're now a Tyler Perry fan since he produced a movie you're sticking up for.

Nope. Perry came in after Precious was already in the can. He had no creative influence over the final product. Thank God. Otherwise Precious would have ended with, like, Shemar Moore sweeping Precious off her feet and attending a church service to make everything wrap up nice, neat, and simple. Props to Perry for helping get the film to theatres though.

Wait..

Since you're a Perry fan, shouldn't you be in love with Precious? Perry produced it and according to you, the man is above reproach and can do no wrong. :D :D :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 12, 2010, 07:17:26 pm
Boyd shouldn't had mention Tyler Perry name at all.

Why? Because you think that Tyler Perry should be critic proof? Please. :D
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am: ":D Dog, what are you, twelve? You don't actually believe that, do you? :D"

U really can't be that stupid to think she won it for her acting skills. You likely think all white cops who pull over black drivers aren't racial profiling them. HAHAHA@ignorance! Wake ur common sense the f*ck up boy.

"Repetition of an opinion doesn't make it a fact. We've shown that Perry has some type of color issues due to many of his casting choices. However you have yet to prove that Daniels promotes white supremacy. Does he also have color issues? Maybe. Casting strictly bi-racial heroes in Precious was puzzling. But Daniels' only other directorial effort was the little seen Shadowboxer with Cuba Gooding as the lead. Using Monster's Ball and Tennessee to try to "prove" your claim is weak as Daniels didn't write or direct either film."

Um, it's a fact that Lee Daniels promote white supremacy with those racist-ass films. So if a black man produced movies on how wonderful white ppl r, how in the hell IS THAT NOT promoting white supremacy? Also, he did it 3 times.......I prove you wrong 3 times. Also, Shadowboxer had Cuba pair up with a white lady.........another prime example of white supremacy.

"Nobody's saying his films shouldn't have comedic elements in them. Even the most tragedy filled life has light moments. The problem with Perry's films, particularly the ones with Madea or Brown in them, is that the humor is so broad and outrageous that it undercuts the heavy-handed drama of the rest of the film. Take Meet the Browns for instance. In it, he shows us the oldest son getting seduced by the streets and ultimately shot in the back. Then Perry shoehorns all of these slapstick antics of Brown and co. which ultimately dilute the main storyline. His comic relief characters don't fit. It's not like these are characters who get in a humorous line or two. Madea and Brown are full out clowns They're caricatures from stupid sitcoms, not fleshed out, fully realized characters. Perry's trying to jam a round peg into a square hole. A more talented writer/director could maybe make these contradictions work within the narrative, but Perry ain't that dude. LOL!"

Not really at all. Madea's Family Reunion had a scene in which Madea was talking to Lisa about her controlling husband. There's no jokes in that scene AT ALL. Other scenes in that movie & other films are the sameway as well. Again, it's a comedy drama. LOL@ the dissing skills of Tyler Perry.

"Not at all. Spike Lee actually does not do the same thing. He drops "A Spike Lee Joint" in his credits and one sheets and leaves it at that. That's self promotion. Perry has to put his name FIRST. Even over the title of the damn movie (which tells you what he thinks is more important ;D). And then, as the credits roll, his name is peppered throughout. He even gave himself top billing over Angela Basset in Meet the Browns. What kind of bullsh*t is that? :D Look, talent speaks louder than self aggrandizement. Perry isn't promoting himself. He's masturbating to his own delusion of grandeur. He's like the P. Diddy of cinema. A great self promoter with minimal actual talent."

LMAO, stop being in denial. In most of his trailers it stated "A Spike Lee Joint" it the same damn thing. WOW@P. Diddy having no talent. Diddy is an extremely talented dude......and I DONT EVEN LIKE HIS MUSIC, LMAO.

"??? ??? That doesn't even make sense. What does Blade 3 have to do with every Tyler Perry film being officially listed as Tyler Perry's...insert actual film title here...? If he thinks that he has to put his name in front of every one of his productions to make sure his audience knows that it's his and it's safe to attend, that shows that he has no actual faith in his audience."

It does make perfect sense. We're talking about the reason why Medea name is listed in the title, despite not being the main star (I already explain the reason behind "Tyler Perry Present"). It's for other brand new characters to get shine off of Medea. Like with opening acts for big names like 50 cent & Jay-z. It could also be the original name of the play and those play goers want to see it in movie form.

"TP Fan #1: Hey girl, there's a new Madea movie staring this weekend. Want to go?
TP Fan #2: Ion't know chile. Is Tyler's name on it? I don't wanna see no movie with a bunch a' cussin' and stuff in it.
TP Fan #1: Girl it's Madea. Of course it's Tyler's. It's got incest and drug abuse in it but you know it ain't got no cussin' in it.
TP Fan #2: Well...I guess. You sure it's Tyler's movie?
TP Fan #1: Girl..."

Now, this was useless^........

"Spike does act in many of his own films, but the difference is he doesn't feel the need to list the supporting character he plays over his actual lead character. Nor does he put his name first over the actual title of the movie. Spike promotes the movie. Perry promotes Perry. You seem to be a Tyler Perry 'Stan' so I guess you wouldn't have a problem with him acting in drag. :D j/k"

If it a "spike lee joint" then he is promoting himself just like Tyler Perry. Also here is a shocker for you: I liked Spike Lee movies more then Tyler Perry's.

"OK, now you're not even arguing logically. :D :D Of course Brown isn't a happy go lucky slave. His character is a modern one, not one set in the 19th century. What Brown is though is a happy go lucky colored buffoon lifted directly from the exact same caricatures and stereotypes that Stepin Fetchit, etc were forced to play back in the early to mid 20th century. Here's the contradiction and hypocrisy with Perry fans; if Brown was created by a white writer/director, they would be, rightly so, screaming for blood. But since he was created and promoted by their boy Perry, it's OK. Absolute bullsh*t. :D"

Actually Halle Berry character in Monster Ball was a modern slave. No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks. Spawn & Afro Samurai are called demon & evil yet alot of black ppl didn't complain at all......and they were created by non-blacks.

"You've never seen School Daze? What?? To Netflix with you sir! Stat! You know that none of those personalities you just mentioned are actual actresses right? They've never appeared in Spike's, Daniels', or Perry's films. I'm just saying..."

Dude, I am just showing you the difference between dark skin & brown skin women. Kelly Rowland ain't really an actress but she was in "Smart Guy." Dark Skin actresses: Jill Marie Jones, Camille Winbush, Naturi Naughton, Rutina Wesley, etc. The only reason I brought up this point about Spike Lee, is to show that he got fault with color issues as well. But, that doesn't make him & Tyler sell outs.

"So, now I'm really confused. Are you suggesting Spike should have made Jungle Fever, Do the Right Thing, and Malcolm X without whites? ??? How is that even possible? Are you kidding?"

That is only problem I have Spike Lee films. It focus too much on white ppl being evil & not enuff about our world. Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces being racist in those films, he could just talk about white being racist and not shown them. I can't believe u never thought of this...... also Jungle Fever should had never been made at all.

"Again, your post here doesn't even make contextual sense. What does that rant have to do with Perry, Boyd, Daniels, or Lee? Who's changing races? What does Waiting to Exhale/Kick-Ass/Friends have to do with anything? What are you talking about?"

omg, do you even read your own stuff? Here what I was replying to:

"Spike has moved on from all black films because he has progressed as an artist. He still makes films with predominately black casts, but most black people nowadays don't live in some all chocolate vacuum. In that way, he mirrors reality. Many of us actually live and work in integrated spaces."

You made up some dumb ass excuse on why Spike & other black film makers don't make all black cast movies & I reply to it. It's so simple to comprehend to what I am saying.

Sigh...

What???? If seeing Storm in X-men is my main focus, that doesn't mean I think that is the main plot of the X-men series.

<i>";D"</i>

Did I ever called Spike Lee: stupid, useless, etc.??? Noooooooo. I am just pointing out his faults as well. If Spike Lee complain about Tyler's color issues, stereotypes, etc. then imma point out Spike Lee's as well.

"Nope. Perry came in after Precious was already in the can. He had no creative influence over the final product. Thank God. Otherwise Precious would have ended with, like, Shemar Moore sweeping Precious off her feet and attending a church service to make everything wrap up nice, neat, and simple. Props to Perry for helping get the film to theatres though."

Tyler Perry still produced it. You need to praise him for producing that sh*tty movie. And he shouldn't be a sell out to you, since he produced that film you love so much.

"Wait..

Since you're a Perry fan, shouldn't you be in love with Precious? Perry produced it and according to you, the man is above reproach and can do no wrong. :D :D :D"

Boy, can you comprehend & stop making sh*t up that I didn't say. I said Tyler Perry has color issues but isn't a sell out. But, hey you r a big fan of Precious & should be Tyler Perry biggest fan.

"Why? Because you think that Tyler Perry should be critic proof? Please. :D"

No, cause that Boyd is just hating. I never saw/read no piece praising Tyler Perry while insulting Spike Lee, John Singleton, etc.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on August 19, 2010, 09:50:10 pm: it doesn't matter if Tyler perry is "good" or "bad" in Hollywood. he has demonstrated a sound business model. he puts in a very small amount of money and returns a LOT more. He is, essentially, duplicating the model that Woody Allen has been using for, well, ever.

Perry has a sizable and rock solid audience who can be counted on to buy his product. I'm not in that audience btw but, I'm fairly sure, that audience isn't running out to buy my next scifi extravaganza either. Or my comics.

The automatic comparison between him and Lee and Wilson (or whoever) is artificial. It's only because they're all black. Nobody is making similar comparisons between, say, Billy Wilder and Orson Welles.

Spike Lee makes "serious" films that are about something both stylistically and thematically. That his focus has been Black Life for most of his career isn't relevant. He's a completely different sort of filmmaker than Perry who has mad his success by preaching to the choir, literally. He doesn't challenge anyone;he doesn't make or expect anyone to actually think; he doesn't challenge his audience; he expects and he gets "Amens" and nods.

Wilson and Lee challenged their audiences, directly, to examine their notions of family, race, nation, culture and justice among other things and they came at each in more aggressive and, frankly, complex ways. To say they are superior artists is not to exaggerate but to limit Hollywood success to artistry alone is too simplistic. Neither of those men have Perry's business acumen. That is also a fact.

It may be that August Wilson is "our" Arthur Miller and that his work isn't as transcendent as it needs to be to catch a wide, non-black audience.Maybe. I don't know. I do know that rushing to the bottom, the lowest common denominator is never a way to go broke in Hollywood.

As a minority subculture who had it's nascent film industry destroyed by Hollywood, we have all been conditioned to accept the White Male or Female Lead as representative of generic humanity. The majority population has only BEGUN, in the last two decades, to accept black men and women (mostly men) in the same role. They are a century behind us on that score at least. I don't think it's a coincidence that, at the same time, whites are becoming the minority in a mostly brown America.

FWIW: I submitted a stage play, DARK PEOPLE, to the Public Theatre in NYC some years ago and it was rejected. No big deal there. Most plays are rejected for host of reasons. Usually because they're crappy. DARK PEOPLE could be crappy. How can i tell? But crappines wasn't the reason it was bounced.

I was fascinated by the reason given for this particular thumbs down. Was it the subject matter? No. Was it the cost of the production? No.

In a personal letter to me the theatre's artistic director claimed the reason the play, focusing on five blacks one latino, one asian and one white, and dealt with cops, movie execs, gangsters and black supremicists, was bounced was because it was "too cerebral."

This in a theatre climate that gave us stage plays about nuns combatting priests over child molestation, physicists coming up with esoteric theories during a chance meeting in a drawing room, journalists tricking American Presidents into admitting high crimes and endless monologues about female genitalia and the social consequences of being born with them.

Too cerebral.

For who?
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Battle on August 23, 2010, 11:09:32 am: Quote from: Redjack on August 19, 2010, 09:50:10 pm
In a personal letter to me the theatre's artistic director claimed the reason the play, focusing on five blacks one latino, one asian and one white, and dealt with cops, movie execs, gangsters and black supremicists, was bounced was because it was "too cerebral."

This in a theatre climate that gave us stage plays about nuns combatting priests over child molestation, physicists coming up with esoteric theories during a chance meeting in a drawing room, journalists tricking American Presidents into admitting high crimes and endless monologues about female genitalia and the social consequences of being born with them.

Too cerebral.

For who?

I had to smile at that one! :)
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on August 24, 2010, 12:10:08 pm: There are a lot of prejudices flying around the film and theatre worlds and not all of them fall into the black/white paradigm.

Even within our subculture there are splits, class based, I think, on what constitutes "good" theatre and what is "trash."

All these religious plays with titles like GIRL, I HAD 2 MEN AND BOTH OF THEM WERE THE DEVIL, are the sort of work that sends me screaming for the tylenol bottle but, the fact is, the asses are in the seats for them. they have a large audience that feels it's being served. Who am i to begrudge them the sort of theatre they like?

I think the same can be said for these perceived quality differences between creators like Mr. Lee vs those more in the Mr. Perry vein. Again, that sort of thing is in the eye of the beholder. I have yet to make it to the end of a single Tyler Perry product but he's filling theatres and getting people to watch his television. That means there's an audience that's being served.

Just because they're all black doesn't mean that the writers in question are, necessarily, limiting themselves to reaching a black audience or even to reaching ALL the black audience. As with non-black artists and their audiences, it's time Black Americans stopped lumping all the Black creators in the same barrel simply because of their skin color. That's what the bad guys have done to us over the centuries and we really shouldn't do it for them.

It's like the philosophers said:

You know life is all about expression
you only live once and you're not coming back
So express YOURSELF.

Express yourSELF. You gotta be you and ONLY you, baby.
Express YOURself. Let me be ME.
Express yourself. Don't tell me what I cannot do, baby.
Come on. Work that body.

;)
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on August 25, 2010, 11:11:45 am: Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am

U really can't be that stupid to think she won it for her acting skills. You likely think all white cops who pull over black drivers aren't racial profiling them. HAHAHA@ignorance! Wake ur common sense the f*ck up boy.

Samurai, all jokes aside...What the HELL are you talking about? White cops?! Racial profiling?! I don't understand what that has to do with your childish, ill-informed opinion of how Halle Berry won her Oscar. Do you even understand how the Academy Awards work? Obviously not because you actually seem to believe that an actress can get one by simulating sex onscreen. It's the Academy Awards, brother, not the AVN Awards! :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Um, it's a fact that Lee Daniels promote white supremacy with those racist-ass films. So if a black man produced movies on how wonderful white ppl r, how in the hell IS THAT NOT promoting white supremacy? Also, he did it 3 times.......I prove you wrong 3 times. Also, Shadowboxer had Cuba pair up with a white lady.........another prime example of white supremacy.

What facts? You've posted a sum total of Zero facts on this subject. All you've posted are speculative race based fantasies. You accuse one Black filmmaker of promoting white supremacy because he makes films that clearly make you uncomfortable on a deep racial level. Then you turn around and tap dance around the color issues and buffoonery of another Black filmmaker just because he employs a lot of Black talent. Mr. Brown's broad, ethnic based clowning and emasculated Black males in drag are the direct result of a mind affected by white supremacy.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Not really at all. Madea's Family Reunion had a scene in which Madea was talking to Lisa about her controlling husband. There's no jokes in that scene AT ALL. Other scenes in that movie & other films are the sameway as well. Again, it's a comedy drama. LOL@ the dissing skills of Tyler Perry.

Right. And that's the problem with the Madea movies. Perry wants the audience to laugh it up at a character that is obviously a man dressed as an older black woman. Madea gets all the best lines and gets to pull pistols on people and fight the police and have all these absurd comic moments. Then, when Perry wants to get "serious", he needs the audience to suspend their disbelief and accept this drag character as an actual woman of great wisdom. See, that doesn't work and kinda insults the intelligence of the audience and the work of the artists onscreen. He tries to have it both ways and it doesn't work....well I mean, it doesn't work for those non-LCD audience members who aren't die hard fans. ;D Perry apologists like to point at Flip Wilson's Geraldine and Martin Lawrence's Sheneneh as other examples of Black comics with popular drag characters, but that's a lame comparison. Wilson and Lawrence never tried to shoehorn their outrageous characters into realistic situations. Geraldine and Sheneneh existed solely in clear, sitcom-ish worlds. Perry wants us to accept Madea as a wizened old matriarch.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
LMAO, stop being in denial. In most of his trailers it stated "A Spike Lee Joint" it the same damn thing. WOW@P. Diddy having no talent. Diddy is an extremely talented dude......and I DONT EVEN LIKE HIS MUSIC, LMAO.

See, like many Perry apologists and Stans, you're in denial. Lee stops at "A Spike Lee Joint". Perry has to list and re-list himself in his opening credits to remind us all how great he believes he is. I'll be interested to see if he puts his name over "For Colored Girls..."

In what way is Diddy talented? Can he rap? Please. Sing? Yeah, no. Act? Ha! He's a good dancer, I guess, but that's a prerequisite in what passes for Black music these days. He's great at self promotion and getting paid off the talent of others. If you consider that "extremely talented", then that says a lot about you.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
It does make perfect sense. We're talking about the reason why Medea name is listed in the title, despite not being the main star (I already explain the reason behind "Tyler Perry Present"). It's for other brand new characters to get shine off of Medea. Like with opening acts for big names like 50 cent & Jay-z. It could also be the original name of the play and those play goers want to see it in movie form.

ummm...ok... ???

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Now, this was useless^........

Yeah, but it was funny, though. :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
If it a "spike lee joint" then he is promoting himself just like Tyler Perry. Also here is a shocker for you: I liked Spike Lee movies more then Tyler Perry's.

Oddly, I don't believe you. LOL! You haven't even seen School Daze. Have you seen She's Gotta Have It? You probably also haven't seen Malcolm X because...wait for it...it's got racist whites in it using the dreaded N-word!!!!!! So, according to Afro Samurai logic, Spike Lee promoted white supremacy by making Malcolm X.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Actually Halle Berry character in Monster Ball was a modern slave. No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks. Spawn & Afro Samurai are called demon & evil yet alot of black ppl didn't complain at all......and they were created by non-blacks.

How was she a modern slave? Did she work for white people for no pay? Was she denied an education, or the right to marry? ::)

Quote
No, there wouldn't be no huge outrage from blacks if a white person created him among with different type of blacks.
Decipher this sentence for me, would ya? I think you're trying to say that a white creator wouldn't be criticized by black people for creating a Mr. Brown type character if he created other black characters as well. If that's what that sentence meant, nonsense. It's 2010. We've got presidents, lawyers, surgeons, cops, etc. We should be WAAY past creating fools like Mr. Brown.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Dude, I am just showing you the difference between dark skin & brown skin women. Kelly Rowland ain't really an actress but she was in "Smart Guy." Dark Skin actresses: Jill Marie Jones, Camille Winbush, Naturi Naughton, Rutina Wesley, etc. The only reason I brought up this point about Spike Lee, is to show that he got fault with color issues as well. But, that doesn't make him & Tyler sell outs.
I...guess...

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
That is only problem I have Spike Lee films. It focus too much on white ppl being evil & not enuff about our world. Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces being racist in those films, he could just talk about white being racist and not shown them. I can't believe u never thought of this...... also Jungle Fever should had never been made at all.

What? You need to go back and look at all of his films again. You sound like all those Spike Lee critics who claim he talks about race too much. He's only actually made three films that deal specifically with race. Do the Right Thing, Jungle Fever, and Bamboozled. Your ignorance of his catalog is sad. Lee has been making films about "our world", as you put it, since his college days.
What does
Quote
Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces...yadda yadda
even mean? Putting black actors in whiteface like Bamboozled in reverse? I hope that's not what you meant because that's asinine.
There's no visceral impact in having a movie where bunch of Black actors sit around and talk about racism just to prevent offending sensitive e-militants. That's not cinema, that's documentary.
Why should Jungle Fever never have been made? Because it offends your delicate racial sensibilities? How old are you? :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
You made up some dumb ass excuse on why Spike & other black film makers don't make all black cast movies & I reply to it. It's so simple to comprehend to what I am saying.

So, Spike and other Black filmmakers making integrated films because we live in an integrated world is a "dumb ass excuse". Dog, seriously...how old are you? :D

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Did I ever called Spike Lee: stupid, useless, etc.??? Noooooooo. I am just pointing out his faults as well. If Spike Lee complain about Tyler's color issues, stereotypes, etc. then imma point out Spike Lee's as well.
I was joking earlier, but you really are a Stan.

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
Tyler Perry still produced it. You need to praise him for producing that sh*tty movie. And he shouldn't be a sell out to you, since he produced that film you love so much.

Boy, can you comprehend & stop making sh*t up that I didn't say. I said Tyler Perry has color issues but isn't a sell out. But, hey you r a big fan of Precious & should be Tyler Perry biggest fan.

See, now you're making sh*t up. I liked Precious. Didn't love it. Not a fan.

Lemme ask you a question Afro Samurai. Why is it ok for Perry to have, by your own admission, color issues and not be a "sell out", but Daniels has to be some great and evil promoter of white supremacy because he made a couple of movies you don't like?

Quote from: Afro Samurai on August 19, 2010, 11:17:31 am
No, cause that Boyd is just hating. I never saw/read no piece praising Tyler Perry while insulting Spike Lee, John Singleton, etc.

Black folks kill me with all this "hating" childishness. Boyd or any Perry critic can't have an opinion. They can't see flaws in an creator's work and express them publicly. Nope. They have to be 'hating'. That's the most infantile idea this hip hop generation has created.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Reginald40 on September 07, 2010, 10:49:21 pm: Brilliantly written observation on a great playwright, August Wilson. If one of his plays were turned into a feature film, I would surely go see it.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Mastrmynd on September 09, 2010, 08:56:19 am: people like dissin' Tyler Perry
they just do.
even though i am a fan of Tyler Perry (Yes, I was on his tv show but some of his i really do like...and dislike).
i've said it before, I don't like Mr. Brown. I just don't. He doesn't appeal to me. He is TOO over-the-top.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Catch22 on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am: I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on September 09, 2010, 08:12:20 pm: Show of hands...

How many of you saw "Why Did I Get Married Too"?

A new low for Mr. Perry. No hate, just straight up logical criticism.

:D :D
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:22:53 pm: "Samurai, all jokes aside...What the HELL are you talking about? White cops?! Racial profiling?! I don't understand what that has to do with your childish, ill-informed opinion of how Halle Berry won her Oscar. Do you even understand how the Academy Awards work? Obviously not because you actually seem to believe that an actress can get one by simulating sex onscreen. It's the Academy Awards, brother, not the AVN Awards! :D"

Do you f*cking understand anything or are you really that stupid? There was no f*cking FACTUAL PROOF ABOUT ALOT THINGS. You just know that it's truth cause of common sense & someone personally witnessing it. There was racial profiling b4 Rodney King getting his ass beat but you prolly say "there no factual proof tho, cause white media never talk about." Do you know how white hollywood works?

I guess not, you likely think that white people get more jobs based on the fact that there are more white ppl in America then black ppl ::). HOW COME HALLE BERRY DIDN'T AN OSCAR FOR OTHER ROLES SHE DID???? That's her first scene f*cking a white man and boom she own an oscar........you can't be that blind and stupid to not see that.

"What facts? You've posted a sum total of Zero facts on this subject. All you've posted are speculative race based fantasies. You accuse one Black filmmaker of promoting white supremacy because he makes films that clearly make you uncomfortable on a deep racial level. Then you turn around and tap dance around the color issues and buffoonery of another Black filmmaker just because he employs a lot of Black talent. Mr. Brown's broad, ethnic based clowning and emasculated Black males in drag are the direct result of a mind affected by white supremacy."

Do you even watch movies and not see the bullsh*t? Deep racial level??? LMAO, you can clearly f*cking see the white supremacy in it, it's not subliminal at all. I guess Mr. Brown remind you of yourself based on your stupid logic that you're using toward me ::). Tyler Perry show all type of black ppl. I liked the fact he also show strong black women.

"Right. And that's the problem with the Madea movies. Perry wants the audience to laugh it up at a character that is obviously a man dressed as an older black woman. Madea gets all the best lines and gets to pull pistols on people and fight the police and have all these absurd comic moments. Then, when Perry wants to get "serious", he needs the audience to suspend their disbelief and accept this drag character as an actual woman of great wisdom. See, that doesn't work and kinda insults the intelligence of the audience and the work of the artists onscreen. He tries to have it both ways and it doesn't work....well I mean, it doesn't work for those non-LCD audience members who aren't die hard fans. ;D Perry apologists like to point at Flip Wilson's Geraldine and Martin Lawrence's Sheneneh as other examples of Black comics with popular drag characters, but that's a lame comparison. Wilson and Lawrence never tried to shoehorn their outrageous characters into realistic situations. Geraldine and Sheneneh existed solely in clear, sitcom-ish worlds. Perry wants us to accept Madea as a wizened old matriarch."

Madea is rarely in the damn movies. IT'S f*ckING COMEDY DRAMA!!! It's work fine & it pretty unique it not anyway insulting the audience. You just clearly have a personal vendetta against the man. You keep personal attacking Tyler Perry, which is pointless in this argument.

"See, like many Perry apologists and Stans, you're in denial. Lee stops at "A Spike Lee Joint". Perry has to list and re-list himself in his opening credits to remind us all how great he believes he is. I'll be interested to see if he puts his name over "For Colored Girls..."

LOL, I am not even a stan, jackass. I already told you, I am bigger Spike Lee fan then Perry. Blah, Blah, just accept the truth that I am right about Spike Lee & TYler Perry doing same thing promoting themselves.

"In what way is Diddy talented? Can he rap? Please. Sing? Yeah, no. Act? Ha! He's a good dancer, I guess, but that's a prerequisite in what passes for Black music these days. He's great at self promotion and getting paid off the talent of others. If you consider that "extremely talented", then that says a lot about you."

He flip samples that been done to death and made them into hits again. He is an excellent promoter, businessman. You know he help groom artists like Biggie, Mase, LOX, etc. right? If it so easy to do it, why don't you do the same??? I don't even like samples and diddy but to say he aint talented, is just retarded.

"ummm...ok... ???"

*Sigh*, You use an already famous person to promote an unknown character. Music: Cam'ron introduce Dipset. Movie: Predator 2 introduce us to that Danny Glover character, TV Show: Cobsy Show introduce us to Denise Huxtable which lead to her spin off "A Different World." Videogame: Devil May Cry 2 introduce us to Lucia, etc. if you still don't get it.......then too bad.

"Oddly, I don't believe you. LOL! You haven't even seen School Daze. Have you seen She's Gotta Have It? You probably also haven't seen Malcolm X because...wait for it...it's got racist whites in it using the dreaded N-word!!!!!! So, according to Afro Samurai logic, Spike Lee promoted white supremacy by making Malcolm X."

Malcom X, Crooklyn (one of my fav.), Do the Right Thing, Girl 6, Jungle Fever, The Original Kings of Comedy, He Got Game, Tales from the Hood, Bamboozled, etc.

I didn't know not seeing 1 movie = me not being a huge Spike Lee fan. I prolly didn't, Malcom X is one my fav. movie and should had won an oscar. Just b/c someone doesn't see your fav "Spike Lee" movie doesn't mean that they aren't a fan. God, man you're a such a groupie. Guy, you can't even comprehend half of the stuff of what I am saying (which is hella simple), so don't go making up bullsh*t.

"How was she a modern slave? Did she work for white people for no pay? Was she denied an education, or the right to marry? ::)"

She was so horny, that she slept with a racist white man that killed her black man. They did that alot during the slavery era of black folks. Not the horny part, but the rest.....and the "slept" was most of the time, "rape."

"Decipher this sentence for me, would ya? I think you're trying to say that a white creator wouldn't be criticized by black people for creating a Mr. Brown type character if he created other black characters as well. If that's what that sentence meant, nonsense. It's 2010. We've got presidents, lawyers, surgeons, cops, etc. We should be WAAY past creating fools like Mr. Brown."

FINALLY, U UNDERSTAND SOMETHING!!!! He is a f*cking deacon & he is super nice. If he was servant, I'll understand your point, but he isn't.

"What? You need to go back and look at all of his films again. You sound like all those Spike Lee critics who claim he talks about race too much. He's only actually made three films that deal specifically with race. Do the Right Thing, Jungle Fever, and Bamboozled. Your ignorance of his catalog is sad. Lee has been making films about "our world", as you put it, since his college days."

Malcom X wasnt about race? Crooklyn didn't have annoying white neighbor? LMAO, you clearly are slow. I don't care for non black ppl in movies, videogames, etc. so that my one problem with some of his films.

"What does
Quote
Spike Lee could had black ppl in white faces...yadda yadda
even mean? Putting black actors in whiteface like Bamboozled in reverse? I hope that's not what you meant because that's asinine."[/i]

You're the idiot who didn't HAVE NO CLUE ON HOW TO MAKE A FILM ABOUT RACISM WITHOUT WHITE PPL. THAT WHAT I EXACTLY MEAN. For a movie maker, I can't believe you COULDN'T EVEN THINK OF THIS!!! The black characters could just also talk about them & not show white ppl at all. But you want a serious whiteface play?

http://www.dramatists.com/cgi-bin/db/single.asp?key=634

A Day of Absence is an excellent play with whiteface actors.

"There's no visceral impact in having a movie where bunch of Black actors sit around and talk about racism just to prevent offending sensitive e-militants. That's not cinema, that's documentary.
Why should Jungle Fever never have been made? Because it offends your delicate racial sensibilities? How old are you? :D"

LOL, a talent filmmaker can do it. Spike Lee could do it & lol@your limited vison. Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

"So, Spike and other Black filmmakers making integrated films because we live in an integrated world is a "dumb ass excuse". Dog, seriously...how old are you? :D"

So: Kickass, Juno, Friends, That 70's Show, etc. could be all white films/shows but we need white ppl in black films cause we lived in an "integrated world".....double standard ftw....dog r you really f*cking that retard?? You don't know how white hollywood work, clearly you don't. You can't be that stupid & retard. You just are being this way, to piss me off. If i make a film about my life all of my friends, family member & girlfriends are black...........again, you don't know sh*t. Newave SandStorm comic, Both Kirkou movies, African Tales movie, etc. are all black casts stuff & are very good.

Again, a racist white person would love play to as a kkk. The best way for black empowerment is just to get everyone working on the project TO BE BLACK.

"I was joking earlier, but you really are a Stan."

Dude you're just a joke. You can't comprehend anything & think white hollywood is equal.

"See, now you're making sh*t up. I liked Precious. Didn't love it. Not a fan."

You're defending it like your life is on the line. You're a Precious groupie.

"Lemme ask you a question Afro Samurai. Why is it ok for Perry to have, by your own admission, color issues and not be a "sell out", but Daniels has to be some great and evil promoter of white supremacy because he made a couple of movies you don't like?"

I also said Spike Lee has color issues as well. Good sh*t, not putting it in there. Cause Tyler feature black leads and mostly black cast. Lee on the otherhand rarely do it. And it not "just a couple of movies" he did that bs for all of his movies.

"Black folks kill me with all this "hating" childishness. Boyd or any Perry critic can't have an opinion. They can't see flaws in an creator's work and express them publicly. Nope. They have to be 'hating'. That's the most infantile idea this hip hop generation has created."

LOL, black ppl killed me with hating on a fellow black person making it but don't hate on the white devils. Field negros are mad at the house negro making it but won't dare raise their hands at massas. Boyd is an old ass hater who want attention. You can blame that slave mentality on your grandparents, voodoo. LOL@hiphop getting another blame for something they didn't do.

"Show of hands...

How many of you saw "Why Did I Get Married Too"?

A new low for Mr. Perry. No hate, just straight up logical criticism.

Cheesy Cheesy"

Good sh*t, asking about 50 active people here who saw his movie. LOL, y don't you go ask the millions of ppl who did? Yeah, now you're hating, how many ppl saw your movie??? "No hate, just straight up logical criticism."
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm: Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Vic Vega on September 10, 2010, 01:35:59 pm: Finding his movies "a little too simplistic and preachy" is hating now?

Denzel and Viola Davis won Best Actor and Actress for Fences BTW.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on September 10, 2010, 04:29:51 pm: Quote from: voodoochild on August 09, 2010, 04:40:47 pm
Quote from: Emperorjones on August 02, 2010, 09:12:45 pm
I am in agreement that Lee Daniels is far more egregrious. At least Perry's movies generally end on a hopeful note and have characters that are resourceful and have faith or find it by the end of the film, or if not faith, family and/or love of some sort. I think Perry has used stereotyping, but so has Spike Lee.

Though Do the Right Thing gets praised to the high heavens, almost every black person in the movie was portrayed in a negative light. Mookie was lazy and trying to get over, Buggin' Out was doing just that, the old black men sitting on their asses complaining about the industrious Korean guy, Radio Raheem walking through the hood like a black brute, etc. Spike has blown up stereotypes or turned them inside out with movies like Bamboozled, but he has also employed them from time to time.

I don't think Perry is perfect however, he has a colorism issue IMO. Too many of his villains are dark skinned and the heroes are light, pertaining to the male characters. Don't know what's up with that.

Woah, woah, woah! :D

Lee Daniels' pieces may be dark and dreary, but that's reality for a lot people. Most situations don't end up with a light skinned blue collar worker swooping in to save our poor, but STRONG BLACK WOMAN heroine off her feet and taking her to an obligatory church service! :D :D :D

And let's not get it twisted; Perry is currently the biggest mainstream offender of showcasing Black stereotypes. Spike Lee may have less than positive characters in his films, but that's kinda the point. No one in Do The Right Thing was supposed to be "the good guy or the bad guy". The film works on a much more complex level than that. People are complicated animals. No one is all good or or all bad. No character in any Spike Lee movie even comes close to these clowns:

I just looked at this. VC, how many black people are raped by their fathers, molested by their mothers, and have two kids by the father, quit high school, contract HIV, and then are helped by kindly white and biracial people to just get near passing (but not passing) an academic test? I think that Precious is just as unrealistic as many Tyler Perry films. Just because it is dark and dreary doesn't make it more 'real'. I think sometimes we associate the negative with being more real pertaining to the black experience. Whereas its a mix of the light and dark moments that make up our lives. We shouldn't ignore the "Precious's" among us, but we certainly shouldn't use Precious as any real gauge for how the vast majority of African American teenage girls are living. She's not that representative. There might be aspects of her life that reverberate with black girls and perhaps black boys as well, not to mention adults, but the movie was clusterf*ck of pathology. Just like the 'real' movies of my youth, like Menace II Society didn't represent all my experiences-I wasn't Kane or O-Dog, though I could relate to certain things.

I never said Perry didn't trade in stereotypes but he also shows a variety of black life and his heroines usually meet their challenges, eventually, and are not pin cushions like Precious.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on September 10, 2010, 04:35:14 pm: Quote from: voodoochild on September 09, 2010, 08:12:20 pm
Show of hands...

How many of you saw "Why Did I Get Married Too"?

A new low for Mr. Perry. No hate, just straight up logical criticism.

:D :D

I saw it. I didn't like it. I did like the first one though. It wound up being my favorite Tyler Perry film.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm: Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:59:49 pm: Quote from: Emperorjones on September 10, 2010, 04:29:51 pm

I just looked at this. VC, how many black people are raped by their fathers, molested by their mothers, and have two kids by the father, quit high school, contract HIV, and then are helped by kindly white and biracial people to just get near passing (but not passing) an academic test? I think that Precious is just as unrealistic as many Tyler Perry films.

Granted, Precious is thick with issues, but that was also a criticism of the book the film is adapted from. I meant that for most people living under such dire circumstances, there is no neat happy ending...no light skinned man to swoop in and sweep the heroine of her feet...no church service so magical that everything untangles itself by the credit roll.

Quote from: Emperorjones on September 10, 2010, 04:29:51 pm
Just because it is dark and dreary doesn't make it more 'real'. I think sometimes we associate the negative with being more real pertaining to the black experience. Whereas its a mix of the light and dark moments that make up our lives. We shouldn't ignore the "Precious's" among us, but we certainly shouldn't use Precious as any real gauge for how the vast majority of African American teenage girls are living. She's not that representative. There might be aspects of her life that reverberate with black girls and perhaps black boys as well, not to mention adults, but the movie was clusterf*ck of pathology. Just like the 'real' movies of my youth, like Menace II Society didn't represent all my experiences-I wasn't Kane or O-Dog, though I could relate to certain things.

It's more real if that's the situation created by the author. Show us a story about incest, abuse, illiteracy, etc. and yeah, it kinda needs to be dark and dreary if we are to take it seriously. Lightening it up with inappropriate bits of broad comedy does the story a disservice and insults the intelligence of the viewer. I don't think that Precious was meant to be representative of anything other than the character itself. People assigning more importance to it do so of their own will. You mentioned Menace II Society. The filmmakers went on record saying that they just wanted to make a good gangster movie, not some treatise on young Black life in S. Central.

Quote from: Emperorjones on September 10, 2010, 04:29:51 pm
I never said Perry didn't trade in stereotypes but he also shows a variety of black life and his heroines usually meet their challenges, eventually, and are not pin cushions like Precious.

I don't know about that. Jill Scott's character in Why Did I Get Married was a doormat until the sheriff stepped in. Angela Basset needed Rick Fox and the Brown's to help her out of her situation in Meet the Browns. Taraji Henson needed that dude from CSI Miami to help her find her center. Let's not even get into the pathology of Why Did I Get Married Too or The Family that Preys.
Perry at best pays lip service to his strong black heroines.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm: Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:24:55 pm: Quote from: Vic Vega on September 10, 2010, 01:35:59 pm
Finding his movies "a little too simplistic and preachy" is hating now?

Denzel and Viola Davis won Best Actor and Actress for Fences BTW.

Bitch, would you stfu already? All you is stalk me with ur lame ass opinions. I already body you with the truth b4. I'll be glad to do it again. This is why interracial relationships should be not legal again.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Catch22 on September 10, 2010, 08:22:21 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.

LOL...whatever...I may have renamed my account like a fictional crackhead, but you're up on this board acting like one. All this fake outrage an internet thuggery. Please. I don't usually waste my time with idiots like you, but I had a few minutes tonight.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on September 10, 2010, 09:30:17 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm
Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.

you need to leave. and see a psychiatrist. today.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:16:18 am: Quote from: T. Biggums on September 10, 2010, 08:22:21 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.

LOL...whatever...I may have renamed my account like a fictional crackhead, but you're up on this board acting like one. All this fake outrage an internet thuggery. Please. I don't usually waste my time with idiots like you, but I had a few minutes tonight.

LOL, how I am acting like a thug & crackhead when I am spreading powerful black messages? Yeah, you're stupid one. All this fake smartness while you 4ever be an idiot.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:18:34 am: Quote from: Redjack on September 10, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm
Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.

you need to leave. and see a psychiatrist. today.

You need to stfu and leave right now. Only sell out waste of lives like you would think that. Does your useless self even write about black stuff??? LOL, I guess not. Have a good time being the white supremacy's bitch. I always say interracial relationships is a sin. It not my fault, you retards can't read.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Emperorjones on September 11, 2010, 07:04:09 am: VC,

I think you're giving Daniels a pass that you're not giving Perry. If Daniels or Sapphire have the right to craft the story the way the won't, why doesn't Perry? You keep referencing the men who save the women in Perry's films. You're ignoring the women making the choice to change their lives for themselves, or even to be saved. You act like they are just sitting around and then some dude comes in and lifts them up. I don't see it that way. The guys help them out sometimes, but it's a partnership. The women also add something to the men's lives. Even if Perry is paying lip service to strong black heroines (I think he's attempting to do more than that), at least he's making an attempt. How many other mainstream films can claim the same? Also, you seem to ping Perry for his colorism while ignoring Precious's rank colorism.

Perhaps you have an issue that Perry is mainstream while Daniels hasn't quite hit the mainstream yet, despite the splash that Precious made, the Oscar that Halle netted for Monster's Ball, and I'm sure he'll get a lot of attention and praise for the Selma movie he's supposed to do. Precious did some 'lighter' moments by the way, particularly with the students and I don't think it did a disservice to the film. There are a lot of dramas that use humor to lighten the load. I think Precious though was a bit of a pile on. I mean, a good, 'serious' movie could've been made tackling just one of the myriad of issues they hit Precious with. It just got to the point that it was so bad that I had to roll my eyes. When she got HIV, I was like, damn, come on now. What else is going to happen to her? I thought she was going to get hit by a truck next or something. Well, that will probably be the opening shot of Precious 2: Still Struggling.

Granted that life doesn't end or go happily for a lot of people, though Hollywood isn't representative of real life, as you and I both know. There is a great bit of fantasy, vicarious living, and image making that Hollywood engages in or provides. If you only get x amount of movies 'about' blacks or starring blacks, I would like to see more content than Precious, a movie that was a checklist of 'black' pathology. When Daniels made the Woodsman, about a white pedophile, played by Kevin Bacon, Hollywood didn't give a damn, but let Halle get banged out or show an obese black woman stealing fried chicken, and now this is an important movie, a must see. I'm not saying Daniels shouldn't make those movies, or Sapphire write those books, but what I would like to see in general is more variety in the representations of black people and black life in Hollywood. I do think media programs or warps the brains of folks and gives a stunted view of what black people and black life are about. Precious didn't help that. Precious was exhausting and beat you down, Perry's films take the characters and audiences through the wringer but at least leave them with a little hope and positive, conclusive transformation at the end. Though Precious had changed personally, to some extent, her circumstances were still dire, and her colorism was never addressed.

Of course this whole 'argument' we're having is probably moot since Perry produced Precious and seemed to have no problems with what it portrayed.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on September 11, 2010, 11:12:55 am: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:18:34 am
Quote from: Redjack on September 10, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm
Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.

you need to leave. and see a psychiatrist. today.

You need to stfu and leave right now. Only sell out waste of lives like you would think that. Does your useless self even write about black stuff??? LOL, I guess not. Have a good time being the white supremacy's bitch. I always say interracial relationships is a sin. It not my fault, you retards can't read.

LOL.

You're precisely the kind of idiot that the internet seems designed for. You ain't a patch off my ass, little dog. You just bark. And you aren't saying anything.

Frankly, I'm still not sure you're black. You seem like a white racist who created an internet face to spew the sort of ugly, low-end "thoughts" that make the KKKers out there happy. A cartoonish, coonish impression of a black man.

You really need to start thinking before you sit down to write and you REALLY need to shut your mouth while grown folks are talking. You don't add anything to the conversation but bile. Just an ugly, tiny, hate-filled mind.

Be an asset to the collective or begone, son. That's the program. Learn it.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 01:34:41 pm: Quote from: Redjack on September 11, 2010, 11:12:55 am
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:18:34 am
Quote from: Redjack on September 10, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm
Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.

you need to leave. and see a psychiatrist. today.

You need to stfu and leave right now. Only sell out waste of lives like you would think that. Does your useless self even write about black stuff??? LOL, I guess not. Have a good time being the white supremacy's bitch. I always say interracial relationships is a sin. It not my fault, you retards can't read.

LOL.

You're precisely the kind of idiot that the internet seems designed for. You ain't a patch off my ass, little dog. You just bark. And you aren't saying anything.

Frankly, I'm still not sure you're black. You seem like a white racist who created an internet face to spew the sort of ugly, low-end "thoughts" that make the KKKers out there happy. A cartoonish, coonish impression of a black man.

You really need to start thinking before you sit down to write and you REALLY need to shut your mouth while grown folks are talking. You don't add anything to the conversation but bile. Just an ugly, tiny, hate-filled mind.

Be an asset to the collective or begone, son. That's the program. Learn it.

^Next time, stop using cliche boring sh*t & make up your own. LOL@this boring sell out who won't even write a storyline about black ppl, getting mad at me. Next time, stfu and stop promoting white supremacy bullsh*t thru your retarded comic. You are just an oreo boy & a disgrace to black people. You hate anything with black & african culture strong presence. Here a noose, go hang yourself biotch.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on September 11, 2010, 01:50:08 pm: you're pathetic.

i don't think you know any black people.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Catch22 on September 11, 2010, 02:41:56 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:16:18 am
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 10, 2010, 08:22:21 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.

LOL...whatever...I may have renamed my account like a fictional crackhead, but you're up on this board acting like one. All this fake outrage an internet thuggery. Please. I don't usually waste my time with idiots like you, but I had a few minutes tonight.

LOL, how I am acting like a thug & crackhead when I am spreading powerful black messages? Yeah, you're stupid one. All this fake smartness while you 4ever be an idiot.

You're spreading powerful black messages? When? I must've missed your MLK moment. You're spreading hate and vitriol. You wouldn't know a strong black message if it hit you in the face and then explained to you what it was. Kid, you need to get some serious help because if this is truly your world view, I'm not mad at you, I pity you. Redjack's probably on to something, though. You're probably a white guy...or even worse, a fake, black Bobby Seale wannabe with a white girlfriend and a government job. If you were indeed white and you came up in here talking all this noise, I'm sure you would have been banned by now, I guess some folks are giving you the benefit of the doubt, go figure. You were entertaining for the sheer ignorance you've shown over the past few months, but all good things must eventually come to an end and your five minutes are up.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 06:32:26 pm: Quote from: T. Biggums on September 11, 2010, 02:41:56 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:16:18 am
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 10, 2010, 08:22:21 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.

LOL...whatever...I may have renamed my account like a fictional crackhead, but you're up on this board acting like one. All this fake outrage an internet thuggery. Please. I don't usually waste my time with idiots like you, but I had a few minutes tonight.

LOL, how I am acting like a thug & crackhead when I am spreading powerful black messages? Yeah, you're stupid one. All this fake smartness while you 4ever be an idiot.

You're spreading powerful black messages? When? I must've missed your MLK moment. You're spreading hate and vitriol. You wouldn't know a strong black message if it hit you in the face and then explained to you what it was. Kid, you need to get some serious help because if this is truly your world view, I'm not mad at you, I pity you. Redjack's probably on to something, though. You're probably a white guy...or even worse, a fake, black Bobby Seale wannabe with a white girlfriend and a government job. If you were indeed white and you came up in here talking all this noise, I'm sure you would have been banned by now, I guess some folks are giving you the benefit of the doubt, go figure. You were entertaining for the sheer ignorance you've shown over the past few months, but all good things must eventually come to an end and your five minutes are up.

WOW, next time read all of my thread and posts, stupid. MLK moment? Have your dumbass ever heard of Malcom X, Huey P. Newton, Louis Farrakhan, Marcus Garvey, etc.?? You claim you dont got time for me, in your last post!! Nice being a hypocrite, jackass. All of you idiots like is being brainwashed white supremacy dickriders. Fact is, both of you idiots should be ban for being such useless fools. I make threads showing powerful unknown black legends, wtf do you idiots do? Ah yeah, bitch at me whenever I post. I'll keep posting 4ever here, cause I'll tell the truth. You should only pity liars like yourself, red, vic & voodoo.

@ Redjack:

Write a story about black ppl, then you'll have a good reason to talk about black folk problems. Until then, shut your oreo self up. What a type of sell out house negro choose to write about a cracka??? ::) You'll be happy to pick cottons for white folks, just so you can make money.

Also f*ck Frederick Douglass & Maya Angelou for being sell out as well. Y'ALL MAD DOGGIES, Y'ALL MAD????
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Redjack on September 11, 2010, 07:13:38 pm: yeah. you're a white guy.

and not a smart one either.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Catch22 on September 12, 2010, 05:56:47 am: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 06:32:26 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 11, 2010, 02:41:56 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:16:18 am
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 10, 2010, 08:22:21 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
Quote from: T. Biggums on September 09, 2010, 11:12:07 am
I don't know about people just dissin' Tyler Perry for no reason...there's plenty of reason there. I've seen a grand total of two of his movies and an episode or two of House of Payne. I must say, I'm not a fan. I don't knock those that like his films, I just find them a little too simplistic and preachy. This is from a guy that just goes to the movies to be entertained, who doesn't want to think too much...and I think his movies are simplistic. Anyhow, yes...Mr. Brown is a poster boy for coonery...Tyler Perry as Madea makes me cringe, but his business model has made him a boatload of cash and he can probably say that he did it all himself.

Good sh*t, naming yourself a crackhead then bitching about black stereotypes being shown by Tyler Perry. LOL@your stupid opinions on Tyler perry stuff. But, hey have a good time hating for no good reasons.

LOL...whatever...I may have renamed my account like a fictional crackhead, but you're up on this board acting like one. All this fake outrage an internet thuggery. Please. I don't usually waste my time with idiots like you, but I had a few minutes tonight.

LOL, how I am acting like a thug & crackhead when I am spreading powerful black messages? Yeah, you're stupid one. All this fake smartness while you 4ever be an idiot.

You're spreading powerful black messages? When? I must've missed your MLK moment. You're spreading hate and vitriol. You wouldn't know a strong black message if it hit you in the face and then explained to you what it was. Kid, you need to get some serious help because if this is truly your world view, I'm not mad at you, I pity you. Redjack's probably on to something, though. You're probably a white guy...or even worse, a fake, black Bobby Seale wannabe with a white girlfriend and a government job. If you were indeed white and you came up in here talking all this noise, I'm sure you would have been banned by now, I guess some folks are giving you the benefit of the doubt, go figure. You were entertaining for the sheer ignorance you've shown over the past few months, but all good things must eventually come to an end and your five minutes are up.

WOW, next time read all of my thread and posts, stupid. MLK moment? Have your dumbass ever heard of Malcom X, Huey P. Newton, Louis Farrakhan, Marcus Garvey, etc.?? You claim you dont got time for me, in your last post!! Nice being a hypocrite, jackass. All of you idiots like is being brainwashed white supremacy dickriders. Fact is, both of you idiots should be ban for being such useless fools. I make threads showing powerful unknown black legends, wtf do you idiots do? Ah yeah, bitch at me whenever I post. I'll keep posting 4ever here, cause I'll tell the truth. You should only pity liars like yourself, red, vic & voodoo.

@ Redjack:

Write a story about black ppl, then you'll have a good reason to talk about black folk problems. Until then, shut your oreo self up. What a type of sell out house negro choose to write about a cracka??? ::) You'll be happy to pick cottons for white folks, just so you can make money.

Also f*ck Frederick Douglass & Maya Angelou for being sell out as well. Y'ALL MAD DOGGIES, Y'ALL MAD????

Now you're just being predictable and boring. It's an insult to Malcolm X, Minister Farrakhan and Huey Newton to even be mentioned by you. I'm sincerely done with lowering my IQ to meet you halfway. Since you seem incapable of a rational thought, maybe a picture will do it for you...I'm fresh out of crayons.

(http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/catch22_m/shutup2-thumb-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: voodoochild on September 13, 2010, 03:03:55 am: Here Afro Samurai, let me help you out because I believe in assisting my mentally challenged brethren:
(http://www.blogcdn.com
/www.bvblackspin.com/media/2010/07/depression.jpg)

First you should probably get a prescription for some of this:
(http://images.suite101.com/1943310_com_wellbutrin.jpg)
Hopefully it will quiet those pesky voices in your head.

You should probably also talk to a professional. I'd suggest Dr. Na'im Akbar.
(http://www.africawithin.com/akbar/akbar6.jpg)
I'm confident that he'll be able to aid you in putting your racial issues in perspective.

And for the love of God, pick up a copy of this book...
(http://static.letsbuyit.com/filer/images/uk/products/original/131/0/an-introduction-to-english-sentence-structure-13100879.jpeg)
Yeah I know. It was written by a white person. So to someone with your particular mental affliction, it's an insidious weapon of white supremacy, but trust me...you need it.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on September 13, 2010, 07:14:29 am: Afro Samurai is taking a week long break from the forum for his repeated lack of decorum.

We don't care what damn fool ideas people promote but we demand civility. Feel free to have at it in the arena of ideas and ideals BUT personal attacks are not permitted.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Afro Samurai on September 21, 2010, 08:11:11 pm: "Now you're just being predictable and boring. It's an insult to Malcolm X, Minister Farrakhan and Huey Newton to even be mentioned by you. I'm sincerely done with lowering my IQ to meet you halfway. Since you seem incapable of a rational thought, maybe a picture will do it for you...I'm fresh out of crayons."

Wow, read this waste of life! You said you didn't have time for me. Yet, you had reply to all of my messages. Naw, I am just as great as them. You named urself after a crackhead who IQ is higher then your. You mad doggie you mad. And what type of grown man play with crayons??? You likely rape kids....lol@ this retard pedophile.

Quote from: Redjack on September 11, 2010, 07:13:38 pm
yeah. you're a white guy.

and not a smart one either.

Good sh*t, retard. I like how redjack cracka loving self didnt get ban for this bullsh*t but I did. Prove it, that I am white then. If you are so f*cking sure, boy.

"Here Afro Samurai, let me help you out because I believe in assisting my mentally challenged brethren:"

So why you aint helping your dumb ass self then? You really need it, I mos def don't. But, keep on hating on Tyler Perry. You're just jealous cause he got more money then you & make better movies then you as well. I am surprise that u can google pictures. Too slow to comprehend words, but can understand pictures. Good sh*t for you, with ur level of education being that of a 4th grade student ;D. Also weak ass personal attacks, you're too uncreative, whitewashed & slow to f*ck with a god like me.

"Afro Samurai is taking a week long break from the forum for his repeated lack of decorum.

We don't care what damn fool ideas people promote but we demand civility. Feel free to have at it in the arena of ideas and ideals BUT personal attacks are not permitted."

Retard ass faggot. You have a personal vendetta against me. IF THAT WAS THE f*ckING CASE, WHY DIDN'T VOODOO BITCH, RED FAG, VIC BITCH & THAT CRACKHEAD NOT GET BAN??? My fool idea? See, hypocrite of the f*cking year here. Your ideals are stupid & useless if you promote interracial relationships. I see thru your bullsh*t, y'all just mad cause I am smarter then all of you.

Also f*ck August Wilson, he had some ugly mutt kids with some ugly ass bitch.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on September 22, 2010, 06:48:00 am: Dude waited out a week long ban to come back with this. Wow. Just wow.
Well, that's a wrap.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Catch22 on September 22, 2010, 07:03:29 am: Curtis, I'd hang on to that IP Address. Just in case the feds need it after that fool goes on his inevitable, unstable rampage.
Title: Re: Why August Wilson Was No Tyler Perry
Post by: Wise Son on December 21, 2010, 03:08:42 pm: Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 11, 2010, 12:18:34 am
Quote from: Redjack on September 10, 2010, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: Afro Samurai on September 10, 2010, 07:22:44 pm
Quote from: voodoochild on September 10, 2010, 05:16:14 pm
Afro Samurai...
I was going to go into this long ass, point-by-point dissection of your poorly thought out ideas until I saw this piece of insanity:

Quote
Interracial relationship is a sin and I don't wanna see that bullsh*t in movies.

Wow. Really?

It is, only retards like u think otherwise. Why don't you married a white bitch, have ugly mutt kids and praise a cracka jesus. Sell out! What poorly on how slow you can't comprehend of the most of the sh*t i am saying. You wasn't doing a "point-by-point dissection" at all, stop lying. Ah well, keep selling out. BLACK POWA 4EVER!!!!!!!!!!! LOL@you standing by your white lady while hating on black men. I always say that in most of posts.

you need to leave. and see a psychiatrist. today.

You need to stfu and leave right now. Only sell out waste of lives like you would think that. Does your useless self even write about black stuff??? LOL, I guess not. Have a good time being the white supremacy's bitch. I always say interracial relationships is a sin. It not my fault, you retards can't read.
Wow. Now, I only just caught up on this thread, but my god, I wish I'd been following it at this point, just to tell Afrosamurai, "Damn, fool, you just messed up there..."