Hudlin Entertainment Forum

How Ya Livin' => Education => Topic started by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on September 28, 2010, 07:49:41 pm

Title: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on September 28, 2010, 07:49:41 pm
SIT DOWN AND SHUT YOUR DUMB ASS UP.

I've seen this idiot on NBC's pro charter school farce focus on education. I gave him the benefit of the doubt even though the man has never been an educator in any capacity.

The benefit ended tonight.

I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.

THIS is the individual this fool was praising out of complete ignorance. And I use the word ignorance in the most insulting way possible. I am sure Mr. Legend never spoke with a SINGLE DC parent or educator about the impact this lowlife corporate shill has had on their lives.

Here is a suggestion to John Legend.

When you are called up to be a Black prop on a platform in which you have NO expertise or experience, just say no!
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on September 29, 2010, 06:23:39 am
I respectfully disagree. I'm glad to see Mr. Legend getting involved. He is putting in his money and his time. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-legend/education-reform-the-civi_b_426490.html) And he is focusing attention on one of the most important issues facing the country. Public education can be an empowering or a polarizing force in the nation.

We know the very notion of charter schools make you see red but in all honesty, it is a nuanced issue, not simply right and wrong. Case in point, Michelle Rhee is a controversial figure with strong opposition and strong support.

We have discussed education policy elsewhere on the forum but I think it's clear that significant education reform is desperately needed. The discussion on how best to fix things is complex and involved but there's no question in my mind that standing pat is a losing hand.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Vic Vega on September 29, 2010, 07:17:07 am
Some background for those who have NO idea what J.S. and Curt are referring to-

From the Philly Inquirer. Com:

Quote
IT WOULD BE difficult to come up with a better spokesman for the documentary "Waiting for 'Superman' " than music star (and Penn alum) John Legend.

Handsome, smooth, articulate and with a social conscience, Legend, whose new album with the Roots, "Wake Up!," dropped last week, was at the Toronto International Film Festival earlier this month to discuss the film and the importance of education.

The 31-year-old, six-time Grammy winner grew up in Springfield, Ohio, where his parents were "very intensely focused on my being educated," he said in a suite at Toronto's Fairmont Royal York Hotel. "They actually home-schooled me for a bit and I was reading at a very young age."

Enrolling in public school when his parents got divorced, Legend found himself ahead of his classmates.

"Being ahead you get treated differently because you get tracked with the other smart kids, you get the best teachers," he said. "The public schools that were like mine invest their best resources in their top students. I was in all the advanced classes and all of my advanced class teachers were really good, really compelling, really passionate about what they were doing. I think they were excited that they got to teach the best kids - but they were probably teaching the best kids because they were the best teachers.

"So all of us did pretty well that were on that track - we went to college and graduated. But the vast majority of our school probably didn't finish college. Now our school is officially listed as a 'dropout factory' [a term widely discussed in the film]. The cutoff for that is 40 percent or more don't graduate on time from high school.

"So I went to a dropout factory but I was in an isolated environment in that dropout factory."

And that isolated environment, which began with concerned parents, got Legend to an Ivy League university. Legend's story, however, is the rare exception.

That's why "Waiting for 'Superman' " is so important to him, he said. "I want as many people as possible to see it. I want voters and politicians to see it because I think it's very powerful, very emotional and very topical. [Education reform] is an issue that is critically important for the country and the film's treatment of the issue is really moving and it will inspire discussion and, hopefully, it will inspire action."


http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/103829504.html (http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/103829504.html)

Legend goes on to sing the praises of the Waiting For Superman" movie.

I may have mentioned it before but it bears repeating: Charters at bottom are a place for motivated parents to go to get thier kids away from
everybody's else's "ignorant ghetto ass kids". So for the folks that actually managed to get thier kids IN the charter it probably works fine. For them. They ain't caring about anything else. I can see that.

Also, in places like Harlem where you have a class of owners who only want to see thier property value rise by any means necessary, having a charter nearby is seen as an amenity that can increase the value of your property. They can't build enough Charters for that crowd. And if they can manage to evict some project folks while they are it it so much the better.

Half of what going on with this stuff has very little to do with education, if you ask me.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: JLI Jesse on October 13, 2010, 09:50:38 am
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews)
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 15, 2010, 03:09:20 pm
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews[/url])



* Turns up GOTTA GIVE IT UP*

 8) 8) 8) 8)

This is great news and I don't want to seem greedy BUT, I would much rather she was FIRED in the same manner that she did scores of educators.

Now to get the people of NYC to do the same to Joel Klein!
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Hypestyle on October 17, 2010, 03:35:30 pm
slightly related--
the current Emegency Financial Manager overseeing most operations in Detroit's public schools, has come up with a proposal that has divided local education professionals and politicians..  It asks state government to forgive the district's debt ($300+ million) in exchange for complete restructuring.. a 'plan B' proposal suggests closing dozens of schools and drastically increasing average class sizes..

http://www.metrotimes.com/news/the-big-deal-1.1047662
http://tinyurl.com/27s5oxn
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 17, 2010, 07:15:43 pm
slightly related--
the current Emegency Financial Manager overseeing most operations in Detroit's public schools, has come up with a proposal that has divided local education professionals and politicians..  It asks state government to forgive the district's debt ($300+ million) in exchange for complete restructuring.. a 'plan B' proposal suggests closing dozens of schools and drastically increasing average class sizes..

[url]http://www.metrotimes.com/news/the-big-deal-1.1047662[/url]
[url]http://tinyurl.com/27s5oxn[/url]



FIGHT IT, HYPE!
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Kristopher on October 18, 2010, 11:21:21 am
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews[/url])


Hooray! Schools in the District can go back to the way they used to be.




Glad my girls go to school in Howard County, MD
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 20, 2010, 05:42:57 pm
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews[/url])


Hooray! Schools in the District can go back to the way they used to be.



So you believe the corporate shill that is Michelle Rhee is the only one capable of substantive school reform in D.C.?
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 20, 2010, 09:26:30 pm
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews[/url])


Hooray! Schools in the District can go back to the way they used to be.



So you believe the corporate shill that is Michelle Rhee is the only one capable of substantive school reform in D.C.?


When you look at the history of reform of school systems, most well intentioned change agents get their butts kicked.  So when a Michelle Rhee actually makes some headway in making systemic change, and gets punished for it.   So the message is don't try and make radical change, because the status quo that will always fight to maintain itself, right or wrong. 
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 21, 2010, 05:45:17 am
Reformers get shot. Ask Stringer Bell.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 21, 2010, 02:55:52 pm
I watched this idiot speak out of complete ignorance while supporting Michelle Rhee, a woman who has done nothing but demonize teachers in America. Even more, in her arrogance she has marginalized parental involvement in school reform.


In a good mood today?

Michelle Rhee resigns as D.C. schools chancellor ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/12/AR2010101205658.html?hpid=topnews[/url])


Hooray! Schools in the District can go back to the way they used to be.



So you believe the corporate shill that is Michelle Rhee is the only one capable of substantive school reform in D.C.?


When you look at the history of reform of school systems, most well intentioned change agents get their butts kicked.  So when a Michelle Rhee actually makes some headway in making systemic change, and gets punished for it.   So the message is don't try and make radical change, because the status quo that will always fight to maintain itself, right or wrong. 


Are you equating "Systemic change" with demonizing teachers, marginalizing parents, and selling out the students for corporate interests?

That "Woman" did absolutely NOTHING to improve the lives of children in D.C.!

I've been conversing with some D.C. parents on some Ed sites and they are overjoyed that the demagogue opportunist that is Michelle Rhee has been ousted.

Real reform comes from actual educators not a pro-privitization opportunist like Rhee.

A lot of these other predators are getting shut down as well. The Broad endorsed fraud in Philadelphia is on the way out too.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 21, 2010, 03:05:17 pm
Could we possibly have a discussion about school reform in DC and elsewhere? With facts, goals, beliefs, lines of argument, stuff like that instead of dismissive insults?

Michelle Rhee has been a divisive figure in DC but she is not without her supporters. How about a reasoned discussion on her initiatives that might shed some light on why you feel so strongly? I, among others, would be interested.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 21, 2010, 03:06:54 pm
Reformers get shot. Ask Stringer Bell.

Rhee QUIT. Stringer was taken out.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 21, 2010, 03:08:59 pm
How to fix our schools: A manifesto by Joel Klein, Michelle Rhee and other education leaders (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/07/AR2010100705078.html)
Sunday, October 10, 2010

Joel Klein, chancellor, New York City Department of Education; Michelle Rhee, chancellor, District of Columbia Public Schools; Peter C. Gorman, superintendent, Charlotte-Mecklenburg Schools (N.C.); Ron Huberman, chief executive, Chicago Public Schools; Carol R. Johnson, superintendent, Boston Public Schools; Andrés A. Alonso, chief executive, Baltimore City Public Schools; Tom Boasberg, superintendent, Denver Public Schools; Arlene C. Ackerman, superintendent of schools, the School District of Philadelphia; William R. Hite Jr., superintendent, Prince George's County Public Schools; Jean-Claude Brizard, superintendent of schools, Rochester City School District (N.Y.); José M. Torres, superintendent, Illinois School District U-46; J. Wm. Covington, superintendent, Kansas City, Missouri School District; Terry B. Grier, superintendent of schools, Houston Independent School District; Paul Vallas, superintendent, New Orleans Recovery School District; Eugene White, superintendent, Indianapolis Public Schools; LaVonne Sheffield, superintendent of Rockford Public Schools (Illinois)

As educators, superintendents, chief executives and chancellors responsible for educating nearly 2 1/2 million students in America, we know that the task of reforming the country's public schools begins with us. It is our obligation to enhance the personal growth and academic achievement of our students, and we must be accountable for how our schools perform.

All of us have taken steps to move our students forward, and the Obama administration's Race to the Top program has been the catalyst for more reforms than we have seen in decades. But those reforms are still outpaced and outsized by the crisis in public education.

Fortunately, the public, and our leaders in government, are finally paying attention. The "Waiting for 'Superman' " documentary, the defeat of D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty, Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg's $100 million gift to Newark's public schools, and a tidal wave of media attention have helped spark a national debate and presented us with an extraordinary opportunity.

But the transformative changes needed to truly prepare our kids for the 21st-century global economy simply will not happen unless we first shed some of the entrenched practices that have held back our education system, practices that have long favored adults, not children. These practices are wrong, and they have to end now.

It's time for all of the adults -- superintendents, educators, elected officials, labor unions and parents alike -- to start acting like we are responsible for the future of our children. Because right now, across the country, kids are stuck in failing schools, just waiting for us to do something.

So, where do we start? With the basics. As President Obama has emphasized, the single most important factor determining whether students succeed in school is not the color of their skin or their ZIP code or even their parents' income -- it is the quality of their teacher.

Yet, for too long, we have let teacher hiring and retention be determined by archaic rules involving seniority and academic credentials. The widespread policy of "last in, first out" (the teacher with the least seniority is the first to go when cuts have to be made) makes it harder to hold on to new, enthusiastic educators and ignores the one thing that should matter most: performance.

A 7-year-old girl won't make it to college someday because her teacher has two decades of experience or a master's degree -- she will make it to college if her teacher is effective and engaging and compels her to reach for success. By contrast, a poorly performing teacher can hold back hundreds, maybe thousands, of students over the course of a career. Each day that we ignore this reality is precious time lost for children preparing for the challenges of adulthood.

The glacial process for removing an incompetent teacher -- and our discomfort as a society with criticizing anyone who chooses this noble and difficult profession -- has left our school districts impotent and, worse, has robbed millions of children of a real future.

There isn't a business in America that would survive if it couldn't make personnel decisions based on performance. That is why everything we use in assessing teachers must be linked to their effectiveness in the classroom and focused on increasing student achievement.

District leaders also need the authority to use financial incentives to attract and retain the best teachers. When teachers are highly effective -- measured in significant part by how well students are doing academically -- or are willing to take a job in a tough school or in a hard-to-staff subject area such as advanced math or science, we should be able to pay them more. Important initiatives, such as the federal Teacher Incentive Fund, are helping bring great educators to struggling communities, but we have to change the rules to professionalize teaching.

Let's stop ignoring basic economic principles of supply and demand and focus on how we can establish a performance-driven culture in every American school -- a culture that rewards excellence, elevates the status of teachers and is positioned to help as many students as possible beat the odds. We need the best teacher for every child, and the best principal for every school. Of course, we must also do a better job of providing meaningful training for teachers who seek to improve, but let's stop pretending that everyone who goes into the classroom has the ability and temperament to lift our children to excellence.

Even the best teachers -- those who possess such skills -- face stiff challenges in meeting the diverse needs of their students. A single elementary- or middle-school classroom can contain, for instance, students who read on two or three different grade levels, and that range grows even wider as students move into high school. Is it reasonable to expect a teacher to address all the needs of 25 or 30 students when some are reading on a fourth-grade level and others are ready for Tolstoy? We must equip educators with the best technology available to make instruction more effective and efficient. By better using technology to collect data on student learning and shape individualized instruction, we can help transform our classrooms and lessen the burden on teachers' time.

To make this transformation work, we must also eliminate arcane rules such as "seat time," which requires a student to spend a specific amount of time in a classroom with a teacher rather than taking advantage of online lessons and other programs.

Just as we must give teachers and schools the capability and flexibility to meet the needs of students, we must give parents a better portfolio of school choices. That starts with having the courage to replace or substantially restructure persistently low-performing schools that continuously fail our students. Closing a neighborhood school -- whether it's in Southeast D.C., Harlem, Denver or Chicago -- is a difficult decision that can be very emotional for a community. But no one ever said leadership is easy.

We also must make charter schools a truly viable option. If all of our neighborhood schools were great, we wouldn't be facing this crisis. But our children need great schools now -- whether district-run public schools or public charter schools serving all students -- and we shouldn't limit the numbers of one form at the expense of the other. Excellence must be our only criteria for evaluating our schools.

For the wealthiest among us, the crisis in public education may still seem like someone else's problem, because those families can afford to choose something better for their kids. But it's a problem for all of us -- until we fix our schools, we will never fix the nation's broader economic problems. Until we fix our schools, the gap between the haves and the have-nots will only grow wider and the United States will fall further behind the rest of the industrialized world in education, rendering the American dream a distant, elusive memory.

*The underlined passages were highlighted in the print version of the paper in the Sunday Outlook section.

And....go!
Agree, disagree, question, wonder, etc. But be specific and constructive. I think we all want better schools. How do we get them?
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 21, 2010, 03:49:07 pm
Could we possibly have a discussion about school reform in DC and elsewhere? With facts, goals, beliefs, lines of argument, stuff like that instead of dismissive insults?

Michelle Rhee has been a divisive figure in DC but she is not without her supporters. How about a reasoned discussion on her initiatives that might shed some light on why you feel so strongly? I, among others, would be interested.

Lets get it.

1. Privitization- Michelle Rhee is supported by figures like Bill Gates and Eli Broad who intend to privatize elementary education in America. Their intent is not to bolster the performance of students, but rather to create a revenue stream through schools.

2. Demagogue- Rhee is at the forefront of demonizing teachers as being "Anti-child" while their profession earns the second lowest wage of all college graduates. Rhee, turned the D.C. public school system into her own public playground while marginializing :teachers, administrators, and parents that disagreed with her tactics.

3. Propaganda- Rhee's elevation to chancellor of D.C. public schools after a whopping 3 years of experience was the first salvo in the corporate war against unions. Rhee knowingly became the face of anti-union rhetoric disguised as reform. Rhee did nothing in San Francisco and yet she has been made out to be the greatest teacher since Socrates.

4. DAMN LIES- I mentioned propaganda but this has reached a whole new low. WAITING FOR SUPERMAN is the culmination of a decade long war against unions with the UFT being at the forefront.

Charter Schools are a failed model and yet on CNN, almost every week they are portrayed as the savior of public education. Charter schools succeed only 17% of the time despite tremendous advantages i.e. cherry picking students, reduced class size, new facilities, more teachers etc.

Geoffrey Canada aka "Superman" got rid of an entire grade when they couldn't pass the standardized tests. What public school could cancel an entore grade level in order to avoid negative test scores?

Why is a model that fails 83% of the time being pushed at the expense of public schools?

Rhee's place in this propaganda campaign is self-evident as she is prominently featured in WAITING FOR SUPERMAN.

5. Tenure- Despite what saint and PROFESSOR of education, Oprah Winfrey, has to say about the subject, Tenure is not a "Job for life". Tenure is simply due process for teachers. Given the dictatorial manner in which Rhee ran the D.C. public school system, it is quite obvious that teachers need protection against administrative abuse.

What is even more despicable about the tenure issue is the link that most people are not privy to.

Teach For America, is a union busting entity; created to enlist a large pool of cheap available labor to replace unionized teachers. The vast majority of Teach For America students don't remain in the profession beyond their legal commitment.

Essentially, with the removal of tenure, people like Rhee and other corporate advocates can remove high-paid experienced teachers in favor of Teach For America rookies.

You need more?


Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Magic Wand on October 22, 2010, 05:54:16 am
How to fix our schools: A manifesto by Joel Klein, Michelle Rhee and other education leaders ([url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/07/AR2010100705078.html[/url])
Sunday, October 10, 2010


The glacial process for removing an incompetent teacher -- and our discomfort as a society with criticizing anyone who chooses this noble and difficult profession -- has left our school districts impotent and, worse, has robbed millions of children of a real future.

There isn't a business in America that would survive if it couldn't make personnel decisions based on performance.
That is why everything we use in assessing teachers must be linked to their effectiveness in the classroom and focused on increasing student achievement.

District leaders also need the authority to use financial incentives to attract and retain the best teachers. When teachers are highly effective -- measured in significant part by how well students are doing academically -- or are willing to take a job in a tough school or in a hard-to-staff subject area such as advanced math or science, we should be able to pay them more. Important initiatives, such as the federal Teacher Incentive Fund, are helping bring great educators to struggling communities, but we have to change the rules to professionalize teaching.

Let's stop ignoring basic economic principles of supply and demand and focus on how we can establish a performance-driven culture in every American school -- a culture that rewards excellence, elevates the status of teachers and is positioned to help as many students as possible beat the odds. We need the best teacher for every child, and the best principal for every school. Of course, we must also do a better job of providing meaningful training for teachers who seek to improve, but let's stop pretending that everyone who goes into the classroom has the ability and temperament to lift our children to excellence.


And....go!
Agree, disagree, question, wonder, etc. But be specific and constructive. I think we all want better schools. How do we get them?


This pretty much sums it up for me.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 22, 2010, 05:58:31 am
Could we possibly have a discussion about school reform in DC and elsewhere? With facts, goals, beliefs, lines of argument, stuff like that instead of dismissive insults?

Michelle Rhee has been a divisive figure in DC but she is not without her supporters. How about a reasoned discussion on her initiatives that might shed some light on why you feel so strongly? I, among others, would be interested.


Lets get it.

1. Privitization- Michelle Rhee is supported by figures like Bill Gates and Eli Broad who intend to privatize elementary education in America. Their intent is not to bolster the performance of students, but rather to create a revenue stream through schools.

Any evidence to support your claims?
- that she is supported by Gates and Broad (does that mean financially or they just like what she has done?)
- that their intent is what you claim. I'll take a look at their programs eventually but is there something specific that you would like to cite?

2. Demagogue- Rhee is at the forefront of demonizing teachers as being "Anti-child" while their profession earns the second lowest wage of all college graduates. Rhee, turned the D.C. public school system into her own public playground while marginializing :teachers, administrators, and parents that disagreed with her tactics.

Again, specifics would be useful to bolster your conclusions. Although she herself (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/video/2010/10/04/VI2010100405151.html?sid=ST2010100802672) identified communication as the area that she would try to improve in retrospect.

3. Propaganda- Rhee's elevation to chancellor of D.C. public schools after a whopping 3 years of experience was the first salvo in the corporate war against unions. Rhee knowingly became the face of anti-union rhetoric disguised as reform. Rhee did nothing in San Francisco and yet she has been made out to be the greatest teacher since Socrates.

Could we focus on the actual policies instead of speculating about intent? After all, she's gone. What would meaningful reform look like?

4. DAMN LIES- I mentioned propaganda but this has reached a whole new low. WAITING FOR SUPERMAN is the culmination of a decade long war against unions with the UFT being at the forefront.

Charter Schools are a failed model and yet on CNN, almost every week they are portrayed as the savior of public education. Charter schools succeed only 17% of the time despite tremendous advantages i.e. cherry picking students, reduced class size, new facilities, more teachers etc.

Geoffrey Canada aka "Superman" got rid of an entire grade when they couldn't pass the standardized tests. What public school could cancel an entore grade level in order to avoid negative test scores?

Why is a model that fails 83% of the time being pushed at the expense of public schools?

Rhee's place in this propaganda campaign is self-evident as she is prominently featured in WAITING FOR SUPERMAN.

I haven't seen the movie yet so I have little to say about it.
Regarding your claim about Charter Schools being a failed model, I am interested but skeptical (as always). What is the criteria for success you site and what is the evidence supporting that claim? Most of the studies I have seen are rather mixed in their conclusions. Further, what is your view about an appropriate role for charters, if any? I would agree that the model has been executed poorly in some instances and is inappropriate in others. I hesitate to throw the baby our with the bath water.

5. Tenure- Despite what saint and PROFESSOR of education, Oprah Winfrey, has to say about the subject, Tenure is not a "Job for life". Tenure is simply due process for teachers. Given the dictatorial manner in which Rhee ran the D.C. public school system, it is quite obvious that teachers need protection against administrative abuse.

What is even more despicable about the tenure issue is the link that most people are not privy to.

Teach For America, is a union busting entity; created to enlist a large pool of cheap available labor to replace unionized teachers. The vast majority of Teach For America students don't remain in the profession beyond their legal commitment.

Essentially, with the removal of tenure, people like Rhee and other corporate advocates can remove high-paid experienced teachers in favor of Teach For America rookies.

Did you see the Education Manifesto I posted? Do you disagree with the performance evaluation plank? If so, why?

You need more?

I'd like more if you're willing. Seriously, I'm interested in moving beyond castigating individuals to have a real discussion about education reform. What could work and how? Because too many schools are seriously broken.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 22, 2010, 06:54:33 am
Just because rich people are interested in fixing education doesn't mean there want to make it their "business". It's a piss-poor business to be in.

I certainly don't see the problem as "just" demonizing incompetent teachers, and yes, we have to make sure we don't strip them of needed protections as the system is reformed. 

But making it easier to get rid of bad teachers and reward good ones seems like a good idea.

And terrible administrators and bureaucrats also need to get the boot.

But more importantly the whole system - WHAT we teach and HOW we teach it - has to be overhauled.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 22, 2010, 07:34:20 am
Just because rich people are interested in fixing education doesn't mean there want to make it their "business". It's a piss-poor business to be in.

How can you make a small fortune in education?
Start with a large fortune.

I certainly don't see the problem as "just" demonizing incompetent teachers, and yes, we have to make sure we don't strip them of needed protections as the system is reformed. 

But making it easier to get rid of bad teachers and reward good ones seems like a good idea.

And terrible administrators and bureaucrats also need to get the boot.

Here's a dirty secret: teachers aren't what they used to be:
Why aren't our teachers the best and the brightest? (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/08/AR2010100802741.html?sid=ST2010100802672)

But more importantly the whole system - WHAT we teach and HOW we teach it - has to be overhauled.

I think that's right. But I don't know how to make it so.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 22, 2010, 07:48:57 am
Just because rich people are interested in fixing education doesn't mean there want to make it their "business". It's a piss-poor business to be in.

I certainly don't see the problem as "just" demonizing incompetent teachers, and yes, we have to make sure we don't strip them of needed protections as the system is reformed. 

But making it easier to get rid of bad teachers and reward good ones seems like a good idea.

And terrible administrators and bureaucrats also need to get the boot.

But more importantly the whole system - WHAT we teach and HOW we teach it - has to be overhauled.


Rich people want to become richer.

Why would hedge-fund managers be flocking to an area that wasn't lucrative?

Public schools are a much more secure source of income than the stock market. There will never be a crash in school funding, there will never be downsizing, and best of all taxpayers will foot the bill.

I watched "Mr. Legend" on Bill Maher and he was still pushing the same moronic talking points from Propaganda film X.

The statistics for firing teachers are badly skewed due to one conveniently overlooked fact.

Most teachers quit within 5 years.

Back to the benign rich people argument.

In Texas you can currently see just exactly what Broad and others have in mind. KIPP is currently funneling money into one district to take over the school board. This school board will make decisions about staffing, allocation of sites, and of course, the expansion of Charter schools.

Dr. Diane Ravitch recently confronted a KIPP representative face to face and of course he obfuscated with the "Pro kids" rhetoric that supposedly absolves all.

There is clearly an agenda here and the money from Gates and Broad that was used to fund propaganda x speaks volumes about their intent.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Vic Vega on October 22, 2010, 10:22:08 am
Specific and constuctive sugesstions?

OK: I'll bite-

Increase the U.S. Poverty Line by 5%-More families will quailfy for food stamps and other aid which will remove stressors from the parents. A poverty struck stressed out parent equals a poverty struck stressed out kid who is not gonna be a good student .

Expand the School Breakfast program and make sure that all Public Schools Participate in it:This will pretty much insure that kids will be in the schools earlier as struggling parents are on the hook for one less meal. This might very well be the ONLY way a lot of poor kids get any Breakfast at all.

Expand Vocational Schools at the secondary/high school level-College isn't for everybody and I've never met a broke Plumber. Teach a kid a working trade and he or she has a pretty good foundation. You can't outsource your leaky faucet or busted tranny to India.  And if you tell a kid you have a way for him or her to make ligit money NOW, RIGHT NOW you might actually get through to him or her.

Expand funding for extracurricular activities and make that particpation tied to grades- Do well you get to play ball or be in the band. Fail, and you don't. Keeps students in school longer (and out of trouble) and gives them a reason to set goals (Harlem RBI is noted for this).

Create more School Annexes: If optimal learning is done with class sizes of 15-17 and kids are having to learn in classes that are double that, there's a problem.  It might be too much to build new Schools but certainly existing vacant spaces could be used constructively.

I don't mention Teachers yet in any of this because unless you make headway with the about an army of freaking Mary Poppinses can't do much, IMO.

I believe in having standards, but you'd have to first separate the kids out by socialzation and intellect (And I can imagine how well THAT'D go over)
and then judge the teachers by standard for that specific student body.

But you can't fairly judge the Teacher of the bright class by the same standards you'd use to judge the slow witted trouble makers. And my empathy for the Teachers Union is NONEXISTANT. But that's just common sense.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 22, 2010, 04:42:21 pm
Reggie, you doubted the machinations of corporate entities in regard  to education.

Let me reveal the game.

The Long Con

Lafayette High School is a very large high school serving a lower class neighborhood filled with the Marlboro Houses and Coney Island houses.

The school was notoriously racist and underperforming. Instead of seeking substantive reform, they opted for the bait and switch of "Closing the school". They stopped future enrollment, the announcement allowed a mass exodus from the school for those who wanted it, and they emptied the school of the veteran staff.

Here is the long con.

The exodus of students had to be absorbed by surrounding schools which were already at or over capacity. One of the schools that was particularly affected was a prominent high school named, John Dewey. The principal complained that the incoming students from Lafayette were: disruptive, lacking credits, violent, and were taxing their resources to the limit.

Fast forward a few years.

What do I see on today's local evening news? John Dewey high school in danger ( Danger means almost certaintly) closing.

This personifies the game.

You keep closing public schools instead of improving them, the students that leave ultimately overwhelm surrounding schools, and those schools are then closed.

All of the closed schools are replaced by charter schools.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 22, 2010, 09:47:49 pm
I am a union member.  I appreciate the importance of unions in protecting workers from corporate exploitation. 

And racism has always been a factor in public education, from segregated schools to the launch of private schools and "Christian Academies" for well to do white kids to avoid mixing with black kids, especially poor black kids. 

I'm not debating which problem exists...I say they all do. 

The teachers union set themselves up for all this by not policing their ranks and not using their power to execute a vision for making the schools better.  It's all good to protect your membership and fight for raises and benefits, but that's not enough. 

I see all these black neighborhoods, full of black teachers, black administrators, black school board members, and crappy schools.   I'm sure there are good people in all those catagories, but the bottom line is that there is so much failure that everyone is at fault in one way or another.  And the system is so impervious to change, the notion of blowing it all up and starting over looks real appealing.  And logical.
Title: Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 22, 2010, 10:28:16 pm
from THE NEW YORK DAILY NEWS:

Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
BY Ben Chapman
DAILY NEWS WRITER

Originally Published:Friday, October 22nd 2010, 4:00 AM
Updated: Friday, October 22nd 2010, 2:34 PM

A rambling letter from the principal of a Brooklyn middle school was so poorly written and full of grammatical errors that parents and teachers say he deserves a dunce cap.

Principal Andrew Buck of the Middle School for Art and Philosophy was defending his policy of not providing textbooks in the email sent last week.

Or at least he seemed to be.

It was hard to tell because his logic was so bewildering, his language so stilted. His subjects and verbs didn't always match. He repeatedly misspelled "textbook" as two words.

After Buck fired off the email to teachers, parents got a hold of it and passed out copies in front of the East Flatbush school. Many are calling for his ouster.

"Our principal denies us books and then he sends this nonsense," said Paulette Brown, a nurse assistant from Flushing whose daughter is in the eighth grade. "You can't understand what he's saying in the letter. He has to go."

Buck, who earns $129,913 as head of the C-rated school, noted in the email that "a few influential parents" have been pushing for more textbooks in the classroom.

"Text books are the soup de jour, the sine qua non, the nut and bolts of teaching and learning in high school and college so to speak," he wrote in one head-scratching passage.

Buck appeared to switch positions midway through the document. After saying textbooks are useful, he went the other way:

"[J]ust because student have a text book, doesn't mean she or she will be able to read it . . . Additionally students can't use a text book to learn how to learn from a textbook..."

In one particularly bizarre section, Buck revealed that not being able to correctly answer questions at the back of many textbooks made him feel "dumb and inadequate" when he was a middle school student.

The missive contains about 50 errors of grammar and logic, said experts who reviewed it.

"The letter is a confusing mess," said Alan Ettman, who has taught English at Dewitt Clinton High School in the Bronx for 26 years.

"The grammar is horrible. The logic is tortured. I can't figure out what he's trying to say," said Ettman, who gave the letter a grade of F.

"It's as though each paragraph is not related to the one that comes before or after," Ettman said. "I think he's just trying to make excuses for not buying books."

Jack Wolkenfeld, a professor of English at Kingsborough Community College for 36 years, said the letter suggested a confused thought process.

"It's hasty, like the author hasn't thought it out," Wolkenfeld said. "The writing and logic are so confused I thought it was a joke."

Nobody's laughing at the Lenox St. school where only 13% of eighth-graders passed state reading exams last year.

Students have no books at all for some classes, forcing teachers to pull material off the Internet or make copies of books to distribute in class. Pupils also don't have computers or a library.

Buck, who has worked for the Department of Education since 1997, has been principal since the school opened in 2007. He is not tenured, officials said.

He was voted the "least trustworthy" principal in Brooklyn by the teachers union in 2008.

In an email to the Daily News, Buck insisted the school has "plenty" of textbooks and said all the fuss is unwarranted.

"I often correspond with teachers on educational issues to enhance communications and generate discussion," said Buck.

"If any parent has concerns, I am available to speak with them."



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/10/22/2010-10-22_andrew_buck_is_the_dumbest_principal_in_city_says_hes_against_text_books_in_idio.html#ixzz139lz1C6G
Title: Re: Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
Post by: Hypestyle on October 23, 2010, 11:21:47 am
Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
A rambling letter from the principal of a Brooklyn middle school was so poorly written and full of grammatical errors that parents and teachers say he deserves a dunce cap.
Principal Andrew Buck of the Middle School for Art and Philosophy was defending his policy of not providing textbooks in the email sent last week.
Or at least he seemed to be.
It was hard to tell because his logic was so bewildering, his language so stilted. His subjects and verbs didn't always match. He repeatedly misspelled "textbook" as two words.
After Buck fired off the email to teachers, parents got a hold of it and passed out copies in front of the East Flatbush school. Many are calling for his ouster.
"Our principal denies us books and then he sends this nonsense," said Paulette Brown, a nurse assistant from Flushing whose daughter is in the eighth grade. "You can't understand what he's saying in the letter. He has to go."
Buck, who earns $129,913 as head of the C-rated school, noted in the email that "a few influential parents" have been pushing for more textbooks in the classroom.
"Text books are the soup de jour, the sine qua non, the nut and bolts of teaching and learning in high school and college so to speak," he wrote in one head-scratching passage.
Buck appeared to switch positions midway through the document. After saying textbooks are useful, he went the other way:
"[J]ust because student have a text book, doesn't mean she or she will be able to read it . . . Additionally students can't use a text book to learn how to learn from a textbook..."
In one particularly bizarre section, Buck revealed that not being able to correctly answer questions at the back of many textbooks made him feel "dumb and inadequate" when he was a middle school student.
The missive contains about 50 errors of grammar and logic, said experts who reviewed it.
"The letter is a confusing mess," said Alan Ettman, who has taught English at Dewitt Clinton High School in the Bronx for 26 years.
"The grammar is horrible. The logic is tortured. I can't figure out what he's trying to say," said Ettman, who gave the letter a grade of F.
"It's as though each paragraph is not related to the one that comes before or after," Ettman said. "I think he's just trying to make excuses for not buying books."
Jack Wolkenfeld, a professor of English at Kingsborough Community College for 36 years, said the letter suggested a confused thought process.
"It's hasty, like the author hasn't thought it out," Wolkenfeld said. "The writing and logic are so confused I thought it was a joke."
Nobody's laughing at the Lenox St. school where only 13% of eighth-graders passed state reading exams last year.
Students have no books at all for some classes, forcing teachers to pull material off the Internet or make copies of books to distribute in class. Pupils also don't have computers or a library.
Buck, who has worked for the Department of Education since 1997, has been principal since the school opened in 2007. He is not tenured, officials said.
he was voted the "least trustworthy" principal in Brooklyn by the teachers union in 2008.
In an email to the Daily News, Buck insisted the school has "plenty" of textbooks and said all the fuss is unwarranted.
"I often correspond with teachers on educational issues to enhance communications and generate discussion," said Buck.
"If any parent has concerns, I am available to speak with them."
Yeesh!  Clowns.. I wonder if the school board will defend him..
Title: Re: Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 23, 2010, 01:59:54 pm
Principal writes memo full of typos - parents & teachers give him an 'F'
A rambling letter from the principal of a Brooklyn middle school was so poorly written and full of grammatical errors that parents and teachers say he deserves a dunce cap.
Principal Andrew Buck of the Middle School for Art and Philosophy was defending his policy of not providing textbooks in the email sent last week.
Or at least he seemed to be.
It was hard to tell because his logic was so bewildering, his language so stilted. His subjects and verbs didn't always match. He repeatedly misspelled "textbook" as two words.
After Buck fired off the email to teachers, parents got a hold of it and passed out copies in front of the East Flatbush school. Many are calling for his ouster.
"Our principal denies us books and then he sends this nonsense," said Paulette Brown, a nurse assistant from Flushing whose daughter is in the eighth grade. "You can't understand what he's saying in the letter. He has to go."
Buck, who earns $129,913 as head of the C-rated school, noted in the email that "a few influential parents" have been pushing for more textbooks in the classroom.
"Text books are the soup de jour, the sine qua non, the nut and bolts of teaching and learning in high school and college so to speak," he wrote in one head-scratching passage.
Buck appeared to switch positions midway through the document. After saying textbooks are useful, he went the other way:
"[J]ust because student have a text book, doesn't mean she or she will be able to read it . . . Additionally students can't use a text book to learn how to learn from a textbook..."
In one particularly bizarre section, Buck revealed that not being able to correctly answer questions at the back of many textbooks made him feel "dumb and inadequate" when he was a middle school student.
The missive contains about 50 errors of grammar and logic, said experts who reviewed it.
"The letter is a confusing mess," said Alan Ettman, who has taught English at Dewitt Clinton High School in the Bronx for 26 years.
"The grammar is horrible. The logic is tortured. I can't figure out what he's trying to say," said Ettman, who gave the letter a grade of F.
"It's as though each paragraph is not related to the one that comes before or after," Ettman said. "I think he's just trying to make excuses for not buying books."
Jack Wolkenfeld, a professor of English at Kingsborough Community College for 36 years, said the letter suggested a confused thought process.
"It's hasty, like the author hasn't thought it out," Wolkenfeld said. "The writing and logic are so confused I thought it was a joke."
Nobody's laughing at the Lenox St. school where only 13% of eighth-graders passed state reading exams last year.
Students have no books at all for some classes, forcing teachers to pull material off the Internet or make copies of books to distribute in class. Pupils also don't have computers or a library.
Buck, who has worked for the Department of Education since 1997, has been principal since the school opened in 2007. He is not tenured, officials said.
he was voted the "least trustworthy" principal in Brooklyn by the teachers union in 2008.
In an email to the Daily News, Buck insisted the school has "plenty" of textbooks and said all the fuss is unwarranted.
"I often correspond with teachers on educational issues to enhance communications and generate discussion," said Buck.
"If any parent has concerns, I am available to speak with them."
Yeesh!  Clowns.. I wonder if the school board will defend him..

He is an administrator, he will be protected to the hilt.

Judging from his quick ascent he may be a leadership academy product.

I've never heard of this school; it may be a charter which given recent events here in Brooklyn is perfect irony.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 23, 2010, 02:11:55 pm
I am a union member.  I appreciate the importance of unions in protecting workers from corporate exploitation. 

And racism has always been a factor in public education, from segregated schools to the launch of private schools and "Christian Academies" for well to do white kids to avoid mixing with black kids, especially poor black kids. 

I'm not debating which problem exists...I say they all do. 

The teachers union set themselves up for all this by not policing their ranks and not using their power to execute a vision for making the schools better.  It's all good to protect your membership and fight for raises and benefits, but that's not enough. 

I see all these black neighborhoods, full of black teachers, black administrators, black school board members, and crappy schools.   I'm sure there are good people in all those catagories, but the bottom line is that there is so much failure that everyone is at fault in one way or another.  And the system is so impervious to change, the notion of blowing it all up and starting over looks real appealing.  And logical.

This doesn't quite describe the reality of the teachers union and how it directly impacts schools.

The union doesn't hire teachers, administrators do.

The Union doesn't give teachers tenure, administrators do.

The systemic failure that we see in schools is due in large part by greed and cronyism at the district level. The union has called it out but then it is dismissed as bias on their part on behalf of the teachers.

If people knew the truth about, Randi Weingarten, they would know that the UFT/AFT is no advocate of teachers or students. They exist to protect those that are using the system to aggrandize themselves.

Weingarten as president of the UFT helped strip away almost 30 years of hard fough protections for teachers. What was the result of this action? NYC schools are now worse than ever in almost every objective review.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 23, 2010, 02:35:06 pm
Reform

Fiscal Equity- Every state should have a fiscal equity law which requires all public schools to be funded at the same rate. Here in NYC the verdict was in favor of fiscal equity and yet chancellor Joel "Manifesto" Klein and Emperor Bloomberg haven't enforced it.

Educators lead- No principals without a minimum of 15 years experience. No superintendents without a minimum of 20 years experience. Chancellors must have been educators at least 15 years in the state in which they are going to hold office.

Civil Rights enforcement- There have never been fewer Black and Latino teachers in the history of NYC. Children seeing a reflection of themselves in the classroom has been proven as a means of raising achievement. There has to be a mandatory level of teachers of color in relation to the student population.

Curriculum- Black Males are the highest achieving students before the 4th grade... and then it collapses. There has to be a revamping of the curriculum to hold the interests of 21st century students.

Decentralization- Schools should be governed at the local level. There should also be monthly public meetings on all school related activities.

Clean stats- No more in-house grading. No more state specified tests. No more data entry firms. The NAEP test is the only test given to every child in the country.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 23, 2010, 07:44:44 pm
Reform

Fiscal Equity- Every state should have a fiscal equity law which requires all public schools to be funded at the same rate. Here in NYC the verdict was in favor of fiscal equity and yet chancellor Joel "Manifesto" Klein and Emperor Bloomberg haven't enforced it.

Educators lead- No principals without a minimum of 15 years experience. No superintendents without a minimum of 20 years experience. Chancellors must have been educators at least 15 years in the state in which they are going to hold office.

Civil Rights enforcement- There have never been fewer Black and Latino teachers in the history of NYC. Children seeing a reflection of themselves in the classroom has been proven as a means of raising achievement. There has to be a mandatory level of teachers of color in relation to the student population.

Curriculum- Black Males are the highest achieving students before the 4th grade... and then it collapses. There has to be a revamping of the curriculum to hold the interests of 21st century students.

Decentralization- Schools should be governed at the local level. There should also be monthly public meetings on all school related activities.

Clean stats- No more in-house grading. No more state specified tests. No more data entry firms. The NAEP test is the only test given to every child in the country.

I can get behind pretty much all of these. 

Why decentralization?
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: jefferson L.O.B. sergeant on October 23, 2010, 08:15:09 pm
Reform

Fiscal Equity- Every state should have a fiscal equity law which requires all public schools to be funded at the same rate. Here in NYC the verdict was in favor of fiscal equity and yet chancellor Joel "Manifesto" Klein and Emperor Bloomberg haven't enforced it.

Educators lead- No principals without a minimum of 15 years experience. No superintendents without a minimum of 20 years experience. Chancellors must have been educators at least 15 years in the state in which they are going to hold office.

Civil Rights enforcement- There have never been fewer Black and Latino teachers in the history of NYC. Children seeing a reflection of themselves in the classroom has been proven as a means of raising achievement. There has to be a mandatory level of teachers of color in relation to the student population.

Curriculum- Black Males are the highest achieving students before the 4th grade... and then it collapses. There has to be a revamping of the curriculum to hold the interests of 21st century students.

Decentralization- Schools should be governed at the local level. There should also be monthly public meetings on all school related activities.

Clean stats- No more in-house grading. No more state specified tests. No more data entry firms. The NAEP test is the only test given to every child in the country.

I can get behind pretty much all of these. 

Why decentralization?

With decentralization there is a name and a face you can hold directly accountable for the state of your local schools. The district office won't be downtown or even more outrageously in my neighborhood; in another borough.

Hiring would be directly affected by this model as well.

Black and Latino teachers are nearly non-existant in our local schools. If communities had control of hiring this circumstance would no longer exist.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: moor on October 25, 2010, 09:50:26 pm
Is there a real difference in the way a 21st-century student learns math or science, as opposed to a 20th century student?  Seriously.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 26, 2010, 07:25:05 am
Is there a real difference in the way a 21st-century student learns math or science, as opposed to a 20th century student?  Seriously.

Do you mean "Is there a difference in practice?" or "Should there even be a difference?"

For the first question, probably not. For the second, oh yeah. There is a qualitative difference between an abacus and modern computers. The difference in tools shifts the methods and the frontiers of the subject matter for quantitative reasoning. The notion of data mining, for instance, is pretty new. Non-linear systems that can't be calculated can be simulated.

The basics are, of course, the same but new applications are unfolding all the time demanding a better and somewhat different foundation. Math and science need to be viewed as disciplines of inquiry, not a set of facts to memorize. The methods and techniques are more important than the results. I think that requires a shift in teaching.

Frankly, in my experience, not only are too many math and science teachers not doing this, but they don't even understand what I'm talking about. Nor are they familiar with research and discoveries in cognitive science on how we learn math and quantitative reasoning. It seems to me that cognitive science should be to teaching what biology is to medicine.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Reginald Hudlin on October 26, 2010, 12:58:37 pm
Is there a real difference in the way a 21st-century student learns math or science, as opposed to a 20th century student?  Seriously.

Do you mean "Is there a difference in practice?" or "Should there even be a difference?"

For the first question, probably not. For the second, oh yeah. There is a qualitative difference between an abacus and modern computers. The difference in tools shifts the methods and the frontiers of the subject matter for quantitative reasoning. The notion of data mining, for instance, is pretty new. Non-linear systems that can't be calculated can be simulated.

The basics are, of course, the same but new applications are unfolding all the time demanding a better and somewhat different foundation. Math and science need to be viewed as disciplines of inquiry, not a set of facts to memorize. The methods and techniques are more important than the results. I think that requires a shift in teaching.

Frankly, in my experience, not only are too many math and science teachers not doing this, but they don't even understand what I'm talking about. Nor are they familiar with research and discoveries in cognitive science on how we learn math and quantitative reasoning. It seems to me that cognitive science should be to teaching what biology is to medicine.

Whew, you dropped a bar on this one!
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: moor on October 26, 2010, 10:09:27 pm
Thanks, Curtis.. that was one of the most comprehensive answers I've ever seen explaining the reason for this education "gap", and it really has less to do with funding and resources than I realized.

I'ma shutup and listen now... :D
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on October 27, 2010, 06:58:44 am
Thanks, Curtis.. that was one of the most comprehensive answers I've ever seen explaining the reason for this education "gap", and it really has less to do with funding and resources than I realized.

I'ma shutup and listen now... :D
Thanks, moor but don't do that. Well, OK, listen, but don't shut up. Education is potentially the biggest transformative issue out there.

There are plenty of problems to tackle. It really is all of the above. The disparities and dysfunction within our education "system" are significant and need to be addressed. But ultimately the goal posts have been moving for a while now. Even the best schools are not adequately preparing children for life and careers in the 21st century. We need a rethink of the whole approach starting with the goals. The current system was designed for the Industrial Age that has come and gone. Even if that system was working well, it's no longer good enough.
Title: Re: JOHN LEGEND....
Post by: Curtis Metcalf on November 19, 2010, 01:10:14 pm
Here's a more extensive answer (http://www.ted.com/talks/conrad_wolfram_teaching_kids_real_math_with_computers.html) to moor's question. I just discovered this and it resonates with me.