Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Comics => Black Panther => Topic started by: Jakuta on July 30, 2006, 11:09:04 am

Title: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Jakuta on July 30, 2006, 11:09:04 am
My boy and I was talking about the latest BP and Iron Man made a comment to T'Challa about what we are assuming is him referring to Storm not just any Mutant but an X-Man who is suppose to be on lock down at Xavier’s Mansion under The One's watchful eye. Instead she's in Africa marrying one of the most powerful men on the planet. Let's not for get that the U.S. was behind a failed attempt at a coup. Now it seemed to me that Iron Man being the Patriot that he is or claims to be, if the U.S. pointed to Wakanda and said sick'em, he would.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Obsidian on July 30, 2006, 11:14:51 am
I feel you....and you know T'Challa ain't havin Sentinals in Wakanda.  But check it, if friends aren't what they used to be....then perhaps enemies aren't either. Hmmmm
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: kitamu Re on July 30, 2006, 11:17:06 am
excellent analysis. You see what the big's at marvel have been planning. The world tour will take T'Challa to four of the most powerful Natons of the marvel universe, capitals that could provide a staging ground for heroes opposed to the registration act.

1. Doom
2. The Moon
3. Atlantis
4. America

I'll keep reading ads to not spoil the ending
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: colin solan on July 30, 2006, 11:52:10 am
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Americans cannot be royalty and keep their citzenship. Thus by marrying T'Challa and ascending to the throne Ororo has effectively renounced her US citizenship. I doubt that the United States would go to the trouble of starting a war with Wakanda just to be able to keep Storm under lock and key but I wouldn't be surprised if they bar her from entering the country.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on July 30, 2006, 11:56:11 am
what chances could have u.s.a. in a war against wakanda??
they are condemned to lose.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Toya on July 30, 2006, 12:54:57 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that Americans cannot be royalty and keep their citzenship.

Er,...dual citizenship? I've never heard of an exception if the person is royalty.


Quote
Thus by marrying T'Challa and ascending to the throne Ororo has effectively renounced her US citizenship. I doubt that the United States would go to the trouble of starting a war with Wakanda just to be able to keep Storm under lock and key but I wouldn't be surprised if they bar her from entering the country.

I too doubt that they would make a fuss if Storm gives up her U.S. citizenship. I think the way things are working-out both national and international capers would have to register before they can do any "superheroing" with the U.S.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Jakuta on July 30, 2006, 02:28:33 pm
I agree about them not caring about Storm ciitizenship. The question here is how Storm is viewed by the American Government. The see her and the X-Men in particular as trouble they are Mutants and they have shown on more than one instance how they feel about Mutants. Now he are one of the Mutants they have had an eye on for a long while and she is marrying the King of a Nation that they had tried to coup. In the eyes of the powers that be that's trouble.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Toya on July 30, 2006, 03:27:05 pm
Have we seen Marvel interested in Wakanda in respect to Civil War? Granted, Reed was denied by T'Challa. I dunno how important she is now(being a mutant, ex-X-Woman, Queen). The Watcher may be an indication?  :-\
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Obsidian on July 30, 2006, 04:09:17 pm
If the US would go after Atlantis, why not Wakanda?
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Toya on July 30, 2006, 05:25:30 pm
But even when Reed mentioned that the U.S. president requested Wakandan assistance, T'Challa then responded that he would not appreciatate U.S. intervention and would offer none.

Maybe the Wedding Tour Arc might be promising...
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on July 30, 2006, 07:19:35 pm
If the US would go after Atlantis, why not Wakanda?

BECAUSE WAKANDA IS THE MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY OF THE WORLD
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on July 30, 2006, 10:32:52 pm
To be totally realistic and again, this is based as much if not more on the previous run than this one the U.S. would be hardpressed to invade Wakanda. Now to be honest, Wakanda came off as a bunch of punks in the early arc as far as I'm concerned. These guys turned back invading white imperialists without coming outside of thier houses in the first issue, but 5 second rate supervillians took them to the woodshed. I mean, they repelled them but their invasion plan was so BASIC I'm shocked that they got as far as this did in Wakanda.
In the previous run they talked about how T'Challa hid a whole battle cruiser in the Hudson river without the U.S. government even knowing it was there. THAT's why the Wakandan's are bad new for the U.S. It's not an issue of the U.S. 'winning' of course inevitably the U.S. would WIN, more people, money troops etc. but Wakanda would make it so damn bloody, expensive and difficult to wage the war that the U.S. would probably back down into negotiations after a few months because Wakanda wouldn't fall. Then again, I'm going off the previous series, I can't even really tell how tough this Wakanda is. Everybody SAYS they're so tough, I don't really see it. When Batroc the Leaper a SEVERLY depowered Klaw and some nerd on Luno-the-flying horse can cripple your defenses I have my questions.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Open palm on July 30, 2006, 11:14:20 pm
No, I doubt the current U.S. would win against Wakanda. With the Civil War and the shifting of powers I think Wakanda would gain more allies against an invasion. Wakanda appears to learn from its mistakes.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Wise Son on July 31, 2006, 07:18:51 am
To be totally realistic and again, this is based as much if not more on the previous run than this one the U.S. would be hardpressed to invade Wakanda. Now to be honest, Wakanda came off as a bunch of punks in the early arc as far as I'm concerned. These guys turned back invading white imperialists without coming outside of thier houses in the first issue, but 5 second rate supervillians took them to the woodshed. I mean, they repelled them but their invasion plan was so BASIC I'm shocked that they got as far as this did in Wakanda.
Yeah, but that was unconventional warfare.I think the current incarnation of Wakanda, in a traditional air or ground-based conflict would be deadly.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: bluezulu on July 31, 2006, 07:42:47 am
with wakanda's technology and ameicas numbers i would give it an even push. but with war who really wins? :-\ it would be ugly on both sides.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on July 31, 2006, 08:38:49 am
To be totally realistic and again, this is based as much if not more on the previous run than this one the U.S. would be hardpressed to invade Wakanda. Now to be honest, Wakanda came off as a bunch of punks in the early arc as far as I'm concerned. These guys turned back invading white imperialists without coming outside of thier houses in the first issue, but 5 second rate supervillians took them to the woodshed.


the HUDLIN'S VERSION of those ''second rate supervillains'' were of course, not like that.
hudlin made his own version of those characters, rhino, klaw, batroc etc. making them 1st rate villains.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on July 31, 2006, 09:52:53 am
I disagree, we didn't see enough OF them to really get the impression that they were consumate badass villians. There wasn't even a throwaway line like "Batroc is the most dangerous man on earth - he's feared all over' or 'Klaw is the best there is at what he does'. Those are cliches but at least they'd demonstrate the breadth and depth of the army claw put together. To me, the whole invasion more or less consisted of Cannibal taking over security and RadioActive man almost blowing up the Vibranium mound. The rest of them were fairly superfluous. I mean, this version of Klaw wasn't NEARLY as deadly as the Klaw established in most marvel history, and nothing in the story would lead a new reader to believe so. Rhino and this 'new' black knight. Gimmie a break.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Open palm on July 31, 2006, 10:21:10 am
Right now the Inhumans are at war with the United States. If the Black Panther cements an alliance then we can count on Black Bolt to have his back. And if Doom thinks it's in his country's interest to support Wakanda...
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on July 31, 2006, 11:12:19 am
I disagree, we didn't see enough OF them to really get the impression that they were consumate badass villians. There wasn't even a throwaway line like "Batroc is the most dangerous man on earth - he's feared all over' or 'Klaw is the best there is at what he does'. Those are cliches but at least they'd demonstrate the breadth and depth of the army claw put together. To me, the whole invasion more or less consisted of Cannibal taking over security and RadioActive man almost blowing up the Vibranium mound. The rest of them were fairly superfluous. I mean, this version of Klaw wasn't NEARLY as deadly as the Klaw established in most marvel history, and nothing in the story would lead a new reader to believe so. Rhino and this 'new' black knight. Gimmie a break.

rhino broke the defensive system of wakanda and made a ''line'' of destruction inside the city . pretty bad-ass
black knight took down some wakandan's military airplanes before the panther defeat him. pretty bad-ass

if not wakanda, but another country of the world, the invasion would have succeded.

how do you want a character to act like to be ''the villain''? osama bin laden is ''the villain'' in the real world, and the only thing he does is speaking in front of a camera in a cave two or three times a year.

of course the villain type you like to see in comics is a stereotyped one. smashing things and screaming etc.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on July 31, 2006, 05:22:55 pm
how do you want a character to act like to be ''the villain''? osama bin laden is ''the villain'' in the real world, and the only thing he does is speaking in front of a camera in a cave two or three times a year.
of course the villain type you like to see in comics is a stereotyped one. smashing things and screaming etc.



New Board, same Ciencio, can't POSSIBLY just talk about comics. You have to make snide side comments and impugn other people's opinions. All I said was that they weren't that TOUGH, of course they invaded, it was part of the storyline but honestly BP could've taken ALL of those guys out by himself. Hell SPIDERMAN could've taken all 5 of those guys out by himself, so it just didn't strike me as all that impressive that they were able to do anything more than just ANNOY the army of the most technologically advanced nation on the planet. If anything I'd have liked something a bit more intricate and compelling than 'Rhino Smash', 'Batroc Leap', 'Klaw shoot somebody'. As a group of invaders they left alot to be desired.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on July 31, 2006, 05:33:17 pm

New Board, same Ciencio, can't POSSIBLY just talk about comics.

new board , same bldyoda.
yyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn

now to compare comics with real facts is something wrong?. gimme a break...

yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwn

You have to make snide side comments and impugn other people's opinions.

that's not my style, that's your style, trying to thwart my opinions talking bad about me.

Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on July 31, 2006, 06:13:00 pm
Dude, you're the one who got thrown off another board for cussing at someone, questioning their sexuality and starting fights. Between the two of us I may have a past history of being snarky; but picking fights, going after people personally, name calling and getting thrown out of chatrooms is your internet resume not mine.
I have liked the new tone of this board and you starting with this '... I guess the only way you like YOUR supervillians etc. etc.' is pretty much how things started to degrade last time. All I'm suggesting is keep it about the comics, and lets all have a good time. If it weren't you that made the comments I'd probably thought nothing of it, but you have a habit of escalating things and I'm trying to nip any nonsense in the bud so that everybody on the board can have a good time. I don't know 'HOW' you like your supervillains either so let's just leave it at that.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: D- Ruck on July 31, 2006, 08:22:51 pm
My boy and I was talking about the latest BP and Iron Man made a comment to T'Challa about what we are assuming is him referring to Storm not just any Mutant but an X-Man who is suppose to be on lock down at Xavier’s Mansion under The One's watchful eye. Instead she's in Africa marrying one of the most powerful men on the planet. Let's not for get that the U.S. was behind a failed attempt at a coup. Now it seemed to me that Iron Man being the Patriot that he is or claims to be, if the U.S. pointed to Wakanda and said sick'em, he would.

What did Iron Man say?  I'm reading it again and he was talking about "abiding the presence of known fugitives."  By that I assumed he mean Cap
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Mastrmynd on July 31, 2006, 08:27:43 pm
you know what?
i wouldnt be surprised if the capital of Wakandan (ie: T'challa's Palace) was like Metroplex and transformed into a big ass Panther ROBOT.

wouldn't that be hot?
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: kitamu Re on July 31, 2006, 08:37:52 pm
wait till bp 22 when t'chall and storm come to america, I can only wonder with aniticipation how this turns out.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Wise Son on August 01, 2006, 03:18:43 am
you know what?
i wouldnt be surprised if the capital of Wakandan (ie: T'challa's Palace) was like Metroplex and transformed into a big ass Panther ROBOT.

wouldn't that be hot?
That would be the culmination of all my geek-loves in one place. I think my head would explode. ;D
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Open palm on August 01, 2006, 03:50:00 am
wait till bp 22 when t'chall and storm come to america, I can only wonder with aniticipation how this turns out.

Guest cameo of Rev. Jesse Jackson. Anti-mutant demonstrators, white demonstrators accusing T'Challa of being a tyrant. Loads of American Africans cheering for the royal couple. X-Men guest cameo. Luke Cage guest cameo. Storm dissing Bishop for being a government stooge.  :D Storm dissing Dondi for being a government stooge.  ;D
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 01, 2006, 10:13:58 am
Right now the Inhumans are at war with the United States. If the Black Panther cements an alliance then we can count on Black Bolt to have his back. And if Doom thinks it's in his country's interest to support Wakanda...

I really hope that isn't the direction of this book.  Right now, DC is doing similiar storyline where Black Adam is pulling together the nations that don't support the US, though with a different outcome.   (Then again, I haven't heard anyone commenting on attaching Isis--which is the original Storm--with Black Adam, another AFrican man with his own nation.)
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 01, 2006, 10:19:44 am

rhino broke the defensive system of wakanda and made a ''line'' of destruction inside the city . pretty bad-ass
black knight took down some wakandan's military airplanes before the panther defeat him. pretty bad-ass

if not wakanda, but another country of the world, the invasion would have succeded.

Personally, I don't see it.  None of the invaders were taken down by the superior technology of Wakanda.  Rhino was beaten with knock-out gas.  That's hardly something complex.  Black Knight was the closest to being taken down by Wakandan technology, but a) defeating Vatican technology doesn't seem all that hard and b) he was actually beaten when BP threaten to kill his horse if he didn't surrender.  And Radioactive Man was defeated by Black Knight's sword.  Batroc and Klaw's defeats were not at the hands of superior Wakandan technological forces, but the acts of individuals.

Nothing really indicates that no other country could have duplicated or matched their efforts. 
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on August 01, 2006, 10:46:47 am
Personally, I don't see it.  None of the invaders were taken down by the superior technology of Wakanda.  Rhino was beaten with knock-out gas.  That's hardly something complex.  Black Knight was the closest to being taken down by Wakandan technology, but a) defeating Vatican technology doesn't seem all that hard and b) he was actually beaten when BP threaten to kill his horse if he didn't surrender.  And Radioactive Man was defeated by Black Knight's sword.  Batroc and Klaw's defeats were not at the hands of superior Wakandan technological forces, but the acts of individuals.

Nothing really indicates that no other country could have duplicated or matched their efforts.


My point exactly. If this was supposed to be a grand sweeping initial arc that showed how Wakanda was a nation of badasses, not only were the villians pretty lame but they were defeated with ease. It was a fairly generic invasion plot that could've been over in 3 or 4 issues MAX. Nothing that has happened so far in this comic's run has established Wakanda as being this super fantastic nation other than what people have SAID, but we really haven't SEEN anything. In fact, one thing that is somewhat underwhelming about this Panther now is how LITTLE of his nation's technology he seems to employ. I don't want to harp on Priest's run but he did make an interesting point on his message board about Panther once. How it was kindof corny that for decades, this guy supposedly runs the most technologicall advanced nation in the world but still chose to run around in a black jumpsuit - I mean what distinguished this guy from Daredevil? This panther is basically back to that old school guy from the 80's (running around in a jumpsuit with no real powers or tech that makes him special. And NO, the 'twice blessed armor' thing during the Katrina story was extremely LAME in my opinion. That's not technology that was some hokey thing. There are vampiric concepts in Africa too, howabout referencing those?) and perhaps that is more to some readers liking. Personally I wish there were more energy blades and vibranium suits in this comic.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: CIENCIANO on August 01, 2006, 10:48:12 am
Dude, you're the one who got thrown off another board for cussing at someone, questioning their sexuality and starting fights. Between the two of us I may have a past history of being snarky; but picking fights, going after people personally, name calling and getting thrown out of chatrooms is your internet resume not mine.
I have liked the new tone of this board and you starting with this '... I guess the only way you like YOUR supervillians etc. etc.' is pretty much how things started to degrade last time. All I'm suggesting is keep it about the comics, and lets all have a good time. If it weren't you that made the comments I'd probably thought nothing of it, but you have a habit of escalating things and I'm trying to nip any nonsense in the bud so that everybody on the board can have a good time. I don't know 'HOW' you like your supervillains either so let's just leave it at that.

a 500 words essay , talking not about comics but about ME.

anyway, yyyyyaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwn
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Open palm on August 01, 2006, 10:42:13 pm
Personally, I don't see it.  None of the invaders were taken down by the superior technology of Wakanda.  Rhino was beaten with knock-out gas.  That's hardly something complex.  Black Knight was the closest to being taken down by Wakandan technology, but a) defeating Vatican technology doesn't seem all that hard and b) he was actually beaten when BP threaten to kill his horse if he didn't surrender.  And Radioactive Man was defeated by Black Knight's sword.  Batroc and Klaw's defeats were not at the hands of superior Wakandan technological forces, but the acts of individuals.

Nothing really indicates that no other country could have duplicated or matched their efforts.


My point exactly. If this was supposed to be a grand sweeping initial arc that showed how Wakanda was a nation of badasses, not only were the villians pretty lame but they were defeated with ease. It was a fairly generic invasion plot that could've been over in 3 or 4 issues MAX. Nothing that has happened so far in this comic's run has established Wakanda as being this super fantastic nation other than what people have SAID, but we really haven't SEEN anything. In fact, one thing that is somewhat underwhelming about this Panther now is how LITTLE of his nation's technology he seems to employ. I don't want to harp on Priest's run but he did make an interesting point on his message board about Panther once. How it was kindof corny that for decades, this guy supposedly runs the most technologicall advanced nation in the world but still chose to run around in a black jumpsuit - I mean what distinguished this guy from Daredevil? This panther is basically back to that old school guy from the 80's (running around in a jumpsuit with no real powers or tech that makes him special. And NO, the 'twice blessed armor' thing during the Katrina story was extremely LAME in my opinion. That's not technology that was some hokey thing. There are vampiric concepts in Africa too, howabout referencing those?) and perhaps that is more to some readers liking. Personally I wish there were more energy blades and vibranium suits in this comic.

I disagree. Those invaders didn't require overly sophisticated weapons to be defeated. Why bring a Gundam when you only need a gun? I've never heard of fighter jets armed with knock-out gas. If it works then it works. Black Panther used a sky-bike to match the maneuvering ability of the Knight's flying horse. He then used psychology against the knight's sense of chivalry. Clever and just as effective. The fact that the Dora Milaje and Shuri could defeat their opponents is praiseworthy because they are women. Normal women wouldn't have done so well. I doubt a G.I. Jane could survive against them. Shuri's victory was partly due to chance, but her training helped her to survive and wield the Ebony Blade. We should also be impressed by how that pilot shot the Black Knight while descending with a parachute. That deserves some kudos.

As for technology, we did see a capable battle room with access to information and wide surveillance. When Klaw tried to dive more into their network their defense programs could scare him off. Furthermore, the holy armor was cool because it supports Wakanda's supernatural, possibly spiritual strength. Vampires are supernaturally powerful. Their myth involves their invulnerability to modern weapons, i.e. bullets and explosives. King T'Challa scared them with a native holy power.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: KIP LEWIS on August 02, 2006, 05:02:55 am
KIP LEWIS: Personally, I don't see it.  None of the invaders were taken down by the superior technology of Wakanda.  Rhino was beaten with knock-out gas.  That's hardly something complex.  Black Knight was the closest to being taken down by Wakandan technology, but a) defeating Vatican technology doesn't seem all that hard and b) he was actually beaten when BP threaten to kill his horse if he didn't surrender.  And Radioactive Man was defeated by Black Knight's sword.  Batroc and Klaw's defeats were not at the hands of superior Wakandan technological forces, but the acts of individuals.

Nothing really indicates that no other country could have duplicated or matched their efforts.


My point exactly. If this was supposed to be a grand sweeping initial arc that showed how Wakanda was a nation of badasses, not only were the villians pretty lame but they were defeated with ease. ...

I disagree. Those invaders didn't require overly sophisticated weapons to be defeated....

That's our point.  We're not saying that Wakanda doesn't have the stuff, but that the villains weren't beyond the means of other nations, so we didn't get a chance to see unique defensive technology or means.

 
...Why bring a Gundam when you only need a gun? I've never heard of fighter jets armed with knock-out gas. If it works then it works. ....

After years of fighting the Hulk, knockout gas weapons from flying vechiles has become common place.  (Again, our point is not about Wakanda, but that these villains really didn't give us a good show of Wakanda's power.)

 
...

Black Panther used a sky-bike to match the maneuvering ability of the Knight's flying horse. He then used psychology against the knight's sense of chivalry. Clever and just as effective. The fact that the Dora Milaje and Shuri could defeat their opponents is praiseworthy because they are women. Normal women wouldn't have done so well. I doubt a G.I. Jane could survive against them. ....

Normal Wakandan women (or soldiers) wouldn't have faired as well as Dora Milaje.  So comparing them to G.I. Jane, isn't balanced.  I bet that shield has several women who would have done just as well. 

 
...

Shuri's victory was partly due to chance, but her training helped her to survive and wield the Ebony Blade. We should also be impressed by how that pilot shot the Black Knight while descending with a parachute. That deserves some kudos.

....

But still, keep in mind, Shuri falls into the same catagory as the previous one and still didn't beat Radioactive Man with their technology; they used the invaders weapon to win the day.  Not a bad move.  And it's not to diminish her skill or Wakanda's rescources; it is just that these invasion party probably wasn't as bad as when Namor invaded NYC with that giant walking whale that took a nuke to knock it out.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: blkyoda on August 02, 2006, 10:19:08 am
When i think of big cool invasions of bad guys that requrie tremendous tech, resources and just badassitude to fight them off, this initial arc just fell short in my opinion. Hell given how tight wakanda supposedly is, it would've been cool if they'd amassed like some HUGE masters of evil group of villians and the whole nation zapped them with power disrupter or something. Just ANYTHING that showed Wakanda was a 'step above' any other nation. I agree with Kip again, Skybikes ain't all that amazing in the world of comics at this point nor is gassing the Rhino. It's like the Silver Surfer battles Mysterio and defeats him by punching his fishbowl helmet. HUH? It's the FREAKIN SILVER SURFER! With the power cosmic there's like a million different kick ass ways he could've taken out Mysterio. (Now I'll admit that seeing SS punch somebody out would be pretty damn funny but that's beside the point.) Same with Wakanda, all that tech and THAT's the response they mount? Like I said, these guys had Gatlin guns and blew away Euro invaders over 100 years ago before they even saw the city walls. That those 2 tier supergeeks even got past Wakandan Airspace is a miracle. Seems like thier superiority is slippin. Very underwhelming.
Title: Re: War comes to Wakanda
Post by: Open palm on August 08, 2006, 08:54:04 pm
This is what a high tech Panther armor would look like:

(http://www.hillcity-comics.com/toys/knightfall_azrael.jpg)

Get the point?