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Messages - supreme illuminati

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Black Panther / Re: Ghost Panther
« on: Today at 08:40:07 am »
Still wishing White tigers mask was Ghost Panthers. But this should be fun still

Me too. That is one of the first reactions I had! I'm also likin the [ Afrikan American? ] female Captain America. I pretty much like the entire line up. Very interesting character combinations, there.

Black Panther / Re: Kraven from Wakanda in MCU?????
« on: July 15, 2019, 05:56:04 pm »
Sounds ridiculous and is most likely a fan rumor more than any studio rumor. Why would you need to tweak Kraven to make him from Wakandan for a Spiderman movie. That's a lot of extra hoops to jump through.

Someone probably took Cooglers' and Watts' interest in using the character and smashed them together. lol

It probably IS a ridiculous rumor, but I actually LIKE the notion of making Kraven Wakandan...despite the immediate death traps of racist stereotypes that spring up IMMEDIATELY with the notion of Kraven being from Wakanda. As many of you know, I really like Kraven and The Taskmaster. I think they're two of the most underused and some of my most favorite "street level" villains...along with my manz Arcade. Yes, Murderworld's Arcade. I have a list of now lesser known villains who have IN-CRED-IBLE potential imo. And anti-heros, sometimes hero/villain types too. Silver Sable is also one of my much slept upon favorites. Like the more villainous Gambit, and a fusion of Ultimate Longshot-Shattershot but minus the psychopathic tendencies. And the more honor flavored but definitely assassin centered Elektra, Bullseye, Boomerang and Silver Samurai. I love me some GORGON, too...the GORGON from The Hand, the Tomi Shishido Gorgon, not The Inhuman Gorgon.

In my fanfic? GORGON works with HELANA DAUGHTER OF HELA. In my fanfic, Hela raped Thor while Thor was passed out from one of his many extraordinary and literally Hel defying adventures...and instead of yielding a son like in The Ultimate Universe, she bore Thor a daughter.

GORGON and HELANA needed zero incentive to attack the group of heroes that BLADE and DR. VOODOO are temporarily aligned with. But I won't spoil more of my fanfic. Just realize? That T' nonsuperhuman T'Challa, the OG T'Challa...faced GORGON and HELANA by himself, at some point in my fanfic.

Man Hudlin is so ahead of the curve, like they said Priest made T'Challa cool and got him to the 21st century, but Hudlins ideas paved way for MCU Panther to hit as hard as it did. Dude deserves just as much credit as Priest. It still bothers me how little recognition he gets for his contributions Priest and Hudlin are two sides to the same coin, you can't have one without the other in regards to who BP is today

You are absolutely right, Ezyo. One of the things that annoyed me alot back in the day? Was how the LCBRD would try to make us choose between CJP and R to the H, like we can't have both and can't like both iterations of their BP. My BP in my fanfic? Is CJP+RH+McDuffie [ Liss said he wrote a CJP+RH mashup BP and so did Hickman ]. My BP doesn't talk much [ like CJP BP ] but when he does talk, he could say anything from Unknowable Cat King to Hardcore, periodically funny, Mysterious but Relatable  modern BP which pretty much runs the gamut from CJP BP to R to the H BP.

Seems like? Even MCU BP is a younger version of the CJP+R to the H BP. This combo is now the standard BP in 616 too, even though he's more like the BP we will see in BP 2 and 3 than the young Prince now newly become King BP we saw in BP 1.

Black Panther / Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« on: July 14, 2019, 08:01:07 pm »
I see. A shame. Of i had the time,and knew how to draw in comic form rather then single drawings of characters I would love to illustrate some of this stuf, even if it was just a mini 10-12 pager

I see you got a reply from Apexabyss. Interesting though as I see his point, I kind of see myself as complementary to what should be considered logical in story continuity. What say you Ezyo?

Personally i kinda see what he meant about it, however, I would take aspects I didn't like (though j would keep it recent) and fix that, using I story plots and (sparingly) retcons.

For instance the Djalia and 'mother' I would turn mother into a villain, who's been lying to Shuri and Tchalla about Wakandas history. I don't subscribe to the notion that Wakanda is essentially no different then Columbus only worse for being hypocrites.  So she would give Shuri these 'memories' of Wakanda and powers but in reality she is using it to try and take over Shuris body and Tchalla has to find the truth behind what's going on whilst turning mother into a powerful villain, fixing the messed up continuity Coates is injecting, while also giving Wakanda  back it's identity by being special because of their own efforts and Ingenuity, and not from some ambiguous Orishas we have never seen, or done anything yet are claiming glory from Wakanda without a good reason other then to bring T'Challa and Wakanda down


You see why I like this guy^^^?

Black Panther / Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS - INTERLUDE - Fireflies
« on: July 11, 2019, 08:01:51 pm »
Thanks for providing me some of the education I need regarding the artistic side of comic book page etc creation. I had zero idea that there were 6 panels per page, etc. I'm essentially supreme "ignorati" regarding the artistic side and frankly the writing, scripting, etc side of comic book writing.

Supreme, check out the older comicbooks from the 1960s,  and especially the 1970s.  If you were to deconstruct those books, you'd see that each page is really just a compilation of an aligned 2 panel story episodes neatly truncated on a single page:

1 page
2 panels
2 panels
2 panels

If you were to read each 2 panel set, they end in a little cliffhanger similar to what you'd see in a newspaper comic strip.  Then you go the next page.

Sometimes, the writer/artist team may just complete a single 1 page (which gets them faster to the end of the book).

Jack Kirby was clever enough to draw 1 single panel between 2 pages. Remembers those?  No one ever (to my knowledge) did that before!

I remember the 1970's comics. They had some panels like this, remember?

Black Panther / Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS - INTERLUDE - Fireflies
« on: July 11, 2019, 05:42:30 am »
I see. A shame. Of i had the time,and knew how to draw in comic form rather then single drawings of characters I would love to illustrate some of this stuf, even if it was just a mini 10-12 pager.

At your skill level, you don't need to complete 10 - 12 pages because that's too far ahead.

If you can draw just 2 panels, that's sufficient.   Just 2 panel story episodes.   

A writer/artist team can pour a tremendous amount of story material into just 2 panels per cycle.

If you can handle 2 panels per cycle comfortably, then you can slowly handle 1 page which is Ö6 panels...? Yeah. 6 panels per page.
Writing comics is similar to writing music; completing little melodies that progress to larger symphonies.

Thanks for providing me some of the education I need regarding the artistic side of comic book page etc creation. I had zero idea that there were 6 panels per page, etc. I'm essentially supreme "ignorati" regarding the artistic side and frankly the writing, scripting, etc side of comic book writing.

so we can post appearances where BP pops up in other comics, I just barely found out about BP in Fantastic Four, I hate missing stuff like this.

From 2007 when True Father 7 started this topic to now...look at the explosion of popularity BP has received. And it all started with R to the H insisting that BP be respectfully and perpetually included in all Marvel mega events. Heads need to give R to the H his madd critical props.

Black Panther / Re: Marvel/AXE's The Freshmen
« on: July 07, 2019, 08:47:16 pm »
this? has serious potential! I like it! A lot!

Black Panther / Re: Revisiting DoomWar
« on: July 07, 2019, 05:33:57 pm »
Comics precedents are often ignored when it comes to films. T'Challa's motivation and relationship with Klaw removed; T'Challa's genius level intellect and martial arts prowess sidelined. Strategic and tactical proficiency were absent for both T'Challa and Wakanda. Black Panther and Wakanda doing something about the injustices done to Afrakan people totally redirected. Even the fact that T'Challa built Falcon's wings has been obfuscated. Much of this and more has to be addressed and corrected in order  to firmly establish the Black Panther. No need redress Shuri at this point, we have more pressing concerns with the main character.

"T'Challa's genius level intellect and martial arts prowess sidelined. Strategic and tactical proficiency were absent for both T'Challa and Wakanda."

All that was there.

"Black Panther and Wakanda doing something about the injustices done to Afrakan"

They never did much to make a difference in the comics either

I didn't say it wasn't there, just that it rode the bench. T'Challa's genius level intellect was sidelined when Shuri states that she can improve on the EMP beads he considers working just fine, not to mention she built the better panther suit and explained to him how it worked. Sidelined when T'Challa gave Ross to Shuri to save. Sidelined when the Avengers bought Vision to Wakanda, Shuri did the diagnosis and T'Challa just stood there and watched, Shuri even performed the complex procedure.

T'Challa's win/lost record states the facts. Pretty even fight with Winter Soldier though Cap got the better of their exchanges. Black Panther didn't look like he knew what to do to handle Giant man (as Spider-Man came up with the strategy to beat him). A non enhanced Hawkeye, did better than could have been expected. T'Challa is one and one with Killmonger. His err Shuri's tech took down way more attacking Wakandans than his martial arts did. The Black Panther was mauled by Outriders. The final nail in the coffin for T'Challa's martial prowess being sidelined comes when Nakia states Okoye is the greatest warrior Wakanda has.

Strategic and tactical proficiency were most certainly absent when T'Challa jeopardizes his entire country and its people rather setting the Avengers up on some distant private island he owns. Wakandan soldiers demonstrated no battle tactics, they just ran head first into an invading alien army with their energy shields deactivated; Wakanda had no orbiting defense satellites to destroy the Outrider's incoming transport vehicles. The final insult... what kind of energy screen does Wakanda have, that not only can an invading army push through it, they can always just run around behind it?

The Emperor mentioned a comic book precedent and I stated that precedents are often ignored. In the BP film they made it a point to state that Wakanda did nothing to help other Afrakans however in the comics there are precedents. T'Challa became a Harlem school teacher to serve the underprivileged; T'Challa offered freedom to a South African family under apartheid. The Black Panther secretly supported the people of Azania as the Panther Spirit declared war and began a killing spree. During the Trans Atlantic slave trade, Wakandans destroyed slave ships, bought, freed and trained captives... all precedents, all ignored. I say they made a difference.

To absolutely no one's surprise, I agree top to bottom with Ndugu [ Brother ] Ture's take above. The question now can we rectify these lapses in the Black Panther trilogy WITHOUT taking away the things that makes us love Shuri, Okoye, etc?

ANSWER: Re-emphasize that T'Challa is the best OVERALL AT EVERYTHING. T'Challa is THE KING OF ALL TRADES. The fact that he's the King of All Trades doesn't make him The Best of EVERY Trade. I use the Decathlete analogy all the time. This analogy serves us beautifully here. Okoye? Could be the best spear fighter and the best DM commander. T'Challa? Is the best WEAPONS MASTER, HAND TO HAND COMBATANT and best OVERALL BATTLE STRATEGY AND TACTICAL LEADER.  Shuri? Would be the best at specific fields of tech [ which we saw hinted at in RH's WHO IS THE BLACK PANTHER ] whereas T'Challa would be the best overall at ALL THE FIELDS OF TECH. Including music, etc. I think that THIS T'Challa...the more complete, more well rounded T'Challa, closer to our 616 T'Challa...will surface more and more in BP 2 and 3, plus other BP movies.

T'Challa is clearly the truth. And...they are "Not Used to the Truth"

^^^We're going to see this guy, closer to our experienced mature 616 T'Challa upcoming iterations of BP in BP 2 and 3.

I was NOT THRILLED by the garbage "tactics" of Wakanda in INFINITY WAR. I thought that Thanos would be more formidable as a foe if Wakanda was presented as being far more formidable an adversary...and Thanos STILL found a BELIEVABLE way to press for Vision. I think that threatening Wanda would work, because Vision would come to rescue her. I agree with the beat used there in IW because it's true to both characters. Wanda wouldn't let her fellow heroes and/or Wakandan innocents die. Vision wouldn't let them or Wakanda die, even if it cost him his life.

I would have thought that Wakanda would have repelled the first 2 attacks, with the 3rd battle taking place in space...which would see Vision launch from Wakanda into space to save Wanda and everyone on her ship from being killed and thrown into space when the Stark Enterprise space battleship they're on is overrun.

T'Challa Cap and other Avengers aboard his Nyami class space battle cruiser would pursue the falling Stark ship, transport the imperiled crew aboard the Nyami, and maybe a combo of Wanda's powers and energies as she battles Thanos plus Thanos' tech makes it very perilous to everyone to transport Wanda to the Nyami. Vision receives all this via Shuri's comm screens in Wakanda, and launches to save Wanda...and the battle in space rages its way back to Wakanda. Where we have the final scenes we see in IW...with T'Challa friggin leading Wakandan forces [ not Captain America ], and T'Challa and Cap laying waste to many and plenty foes en route to Thor's amazing re-entry and playing out the way we see in IW.

Black Panther / Re: Revisiting DoomWar
« on: July 06, 2019, 09:00:41 pm » would we feel if Shuri became BP? I'm cool with long as it's not at Chadwick's expense. Fellow HEFfas...what say you?

Black Panther / Re: Revisiting DoomWar
« on: July 04, 2019, 12:20:09 am »
That garbage 'strikethrough" thing just activated itself by itself in my post above, and I still can't get rid of it. I've tried "fixes" offered by my more tech savvy HEF brethren, to no avail.

Black Panther / Re: Revisiting DoomWar
« on: July 04, 2019, 12:01:26 am »
Imo? Doomwar most definitely should not be part of the BP trilogy of films. Seriously.

Given the grand scope of MCU plans? Growing Doom...a single villain whom the F4 will vanquish in their trilogy of films...into a MCU level threat will be a huge step down from Thanos. Unless there is a plan to NOT have a single Big Bad for Phase 4 like Thanos was the ultimate Big Bad for Phase 3? Doomwar most definitely shouldn't happen in BP at all; not only because Doom himself hasn't been established as the truly formidable arch nemesis that he is, but frankly because Doom isn't sufficient enough of a threat to Wakanda to warrant Wakanda's full attention. Killmonger was different because of his legit claim to the throne of Wakanda and the loyalties of Wakandans. If not for this? T'Challa would not have dealt with inner conflict and turmoil, and therefore would never have lost to Killmonger. In fact? Killmonger would have never been able to breach the borders of Wakanda at all, as W'kabi and The Border Tribe are the Clan who brought Killmonger to The Golden City. Doom? Is a genuine threat to the F4, SHIELD, The Hulk, and many others..but Doom to Wakanda? Doom is clearly a megalomaniacal Colonizer and would be treated accordingly. Doom would be killed by Wakanda.

Doom should be part of The F4 series of movies, and Reed and T'Challa should be introduced via some kind of F4+Avengers mashup vs Big Bad Guy Who/Whatever. At this point? Maybe it could be revealed that T'Chaka knew Reed's or Sue Storm's father, or whatever. If somehow or other Doom DOES find himself part of BP 2? He shouldn't be the main focus. Maybe Doom should vanish from the movie after he uses the Vibranium he pilfers from Klaue's body to resurrect Klaue via use of Klaue's vibranium arm cannon, and transform Klaue into The Murderous Master of Sound. Maybe Doom would be part of the primary Phase 4 Big Bad Plan. Like how Hela was the main villain for most of Thor Ragnarok, but not the main villain of Phase 3 [ who was Thanos ].

Some quick MCU Wakanda thoughts:

The X-Men's MCU profile should bring in Magneto, and with this? We now have a very sensible, formidable and definitely fan favorite trio of villains whom we could/should bring to Wakanda: Klaue. Magneto. And Doom. I was inclined toward BOTH Dooms [ Krystoff and Victor ], thus setting up The Royal Family of Wakanda vs The Royal Family of Latveria... but I'm sure that Marvel will want a younger Doom and therefore Kyrstoff isn't on deck yet. But imo this trio should best be developed in the cartoon treatment of BP, not in the actual movie franchises of BP.

Namor should be Marvel's Aquaman, and as such? His intro movie and character development won't set him up as an antagonist of/for Wakanda. However, the shared histories and conflicts between Atlantis and Wakanda should be part of Namor's trilogy...if Namor truly does get a trilogy, as I expect that he will.

Ramonda must play a decisive, action packed role in the defeat of Wakanda's villains in all media platforms [ comics, cartoons and movies ]; imo she was criminally underused in BP 1 [ however much I really understand and approve of the need to develop Shuri, Nakia, and Okoye with T'Challa ].

I would actually prefer to see a blend of an approach which develops the BP specific Rogues' Gallery, ties BP to the larger MCU as a whole, launches BP mythos based properties in comics and in cartoons, AND plants seeds for other heroes [ and sheroes ] of color that will be stars of their own movies in Phase 4 in ways that we wouldn't see coming; in the way that we see with the White heroes of the MCU.

Imagine Ukumkani Wabafileyo...the Xhosa phrase from the Xhosa language of MCU Wakanda meaning "The King of the Dead", whose SHIELD Codename is MACABRE [ thus giving the nod to Don MacGregor and Gil Kane who created 616 Baron Macabre for BP's Rogues Gallery, while still giving the badly need Afrakan centered transformation and upgrade in power etc that is required for a premier foe of the BPs and/or Wakanda ]. This would tie Wakanda more into its magical heritage, could very clearly involve The Jabari [ as the lineage of the Ukumkani Wabafileyo has a legacy of being both a ally to and enemy of the Royals of the Tribes of Wakanda ] and could attract Chiwetel Ejiofor's Baron Mordo to Wakanda, thus providing a surprising MCU DOCTOR STRANGE tie in. The corruption of the current Ukumkani Wabafileyo could unveil Wakanda's long planted countermeasures, one of which provides the intro to and throughline for both Doctor Voodoo AND Blade to come into the MCU Phase 4 plans. The many mystical, human and animal threats of the Ukumkani Wabafileyo would definitely justify the need for the skills of Falcon, War Machine and Bucky The White Wolf, but that might not happen because we already have the Disney streaming platform launching the FALCON AND BUCKY franchise. In their absence? The Dora Milaje should shine...and I'd like to see The Hatut Zeraze [ "Izinja Zemfazwe" in Xhosa, "Dogs of War" ] introduced into the MCU and reintroduced in the 616 as the formidable fighting force they are. I think that the Dora should remain all female, whereas the Hatut Zeraze could and should be of both primary genders.

Vibranium would most definitely attract Magneto to Wakanda, and Storm would race to Afrika both to protect her mother's land of Kenya and to battle Magneto. We should embrace this reality as this spins out soooo many options for BP the Franchise to continue to grow in soooo many different ways and simultaneously with the successes of other franchises, without being harmed by or tied to the failure of said franchises [ should they fail ]. This would be very very interesting indeed, and would give us the opportunity to reconcile the T'Challa-Nakia-Storm thing. I very much favor a reconciliation which doesn't diminish any of the 3 main characters of this potential triangle. All 3 could be friends, while allowing Storm to develop and follow her own character story arc as the leading Black Afrikan female mutant which COULD lead to the throne of Wakanda. Nakia could be allowed to develop on her own as a character in a female James Bond+Jason Bourne kind of way; she could have arcs and miniseries in comics, cartoons and even both guest and feature in the MCU properties on Disney's streaming platform. In this way we show unity rather than disunity and powerfully develop all 3 characters without having fallen into the false and destructive dichotomy and either/or that White society tries to compel us into making,as if we can't support multiple Afrikan heroes at once in the same wholehearted way that we can support mostly White heroes like the entire Avengers and JLA rosters at the same time. We can and do love the ENTIRE Bat Family AND Spider-Verse at the SAME TIME, without any conflict or tension. Same thing should be done with Wakanda and our s/heroes of color.

Wakanda will also be involved in whatever unforeseen mayhem caused by the battles and villains of GotG 3 and The Eternals trilogy. I think that The Inhumans might rise in Phase 4, and if they do? Wakanda would be involved in that, too. But neither Maximus or Doom by themselves are sufficient threats to Wakanda to survive jousting with the homeland of The Black Panther. Courting conflict with Wakanda is courting death...and these brilliant villains are smart enough to see and accept this. "SEE WAKANDA AND DIE".

This is why Doomwar shouldn't happen in the MCU BP trilogy. In the MCU? Doomwar diminishes Wakanda.

However. Once TurnCoates is thrown off of BP? We DEFINITELY should have a REAL BP scribe revisit Doom and Doomwar in the 616 and have T'Challa finally score that decisive whoop ass victory over Doom and from that point forward change the tone of their interactions. T'Challa should be seen as having a clear advantage over Doom in all their clashes henceforth.


When T'Challa faces Doom again? T'Challa will again " the knife where it belonged...". This also gives us a character beat wherein T'Challa should imo become the absolute best "street level" knife fighter in 616 and the MCU. T'Challa, uberprep, supreme shrewdness, supreme spirituality and tech, claws, super senses, supreme skills with knives [ which by extension includes spears and swords ]. T' typical fashion...keeps these skills under wraps until it's appropriate for him to reveal them, thus preventing his foes from prepping for his skills ahead of time.

I like it.

What do my fellow HEFfas think?

Black Panther / Re: Shuri gets her own series
« on: June 28, 2019, 02:31:19 pm »

When you don't have a writer on the book because the main writer has walked off AND you don't have a replacement? That book IS CANCELLED. Period.

Unless Marvel decides it is, Iíll take a Shuri solo over the mutant folks want pushed as the premier black woman at Marvel.

To some people, that would start a war, but I haven't seen him post around here in a long time.
[/quote ]

I never saw that as a either/or proposition. I think that whole notion is a false dichotomy. Just as we don't have to choose between say a Captain Marvel or Black Widow solo? We shouldn't have to choose between a Shuri or Storm solo. Both are outstanding and both should have top writers with top artists selling thousands of copies per month on the shelves right now.

But that's NOT happening. And we know why, don't we? Has zero to do with any of the characters listed above. It's not just Marvel, the writers and's primarily the White male dominated comic book audience. Despite the smashing success that each of these characters have had in film? The predominant demographic for comic books remains White males. Boys to men...not Boys II Men.

 For the record, I could see Hellcat and Mockingbird doing very well as street level characters, and Fallon Grey...daughter of BLADE...absolutely wrecking shop, too. I think that I could write either of those 3 ladies pretty well, but I think that women who are proven comic book writers should write these 3 first. And preferably a Black woman for Fallon. If not? I think that Ann Nocenti could crush a maxiseries featuring any of the above 3 women.

So, the guy who literally spit the greatest and best argument for Afrakan Reparations writes a compelling Captain America and a suckganimous Black Panther? My brilliant HEF brethren, feel free to explain that reality to me.

There is some discussion out there (which I agree with) that Coates's eloquent testimony at the Congressional Hearing was basically toothless since he didn't push hard for monetary reparations (he eventually did say he thought maybe some people should get cash), and he also didn't do a good job of tying slavery to contemporary discrimination, which I think weakens the argument overall. Further, he seemed to set 1968 as the end of racism/discrimination, which further weakens the argument. So, Coates's writing Black Panther still is how he really sees us. That being said, he's always been good at describing black pain, but he doesn't know how to go beyond that. The constant deconstruction of his Black Panther fits his general pessimistic worldview.

This? Is a cogent response, sir. I was looking for the direct connection to money, benefits, system change in specific ways that helps us and the explanation linking to the fact that helping us rectify these mindblowingly worst of all time transgressions against us ALSO RAISES ALL SHIPS like we experienced in Reconstruction; but I didn't peep it. I began to wonder if I should pen such an argument, just to put it out there and keep the argument growing and going in this kind of specific direction that points out that we are giving a cascading lift to everyone when we help us.

Why is that? Because rectifying our ills knocks down almost all the resistance to rectifying the virulent but lesser ills of class, gender, lifestyle, religious, etc bigotries and injustices. Our position remains the unique and only position of those outrageously aggrieved by Racist Feudalism. All others? Suffer the injustices of Feudalist era Euro bigotries, WITHOUT the Fatality level final blow of racism and racial hatreds, which are the worst of all. There is no alleviating racial hatred, but almost all other forms of Feudal era bigotries can be mitigated if not wholly alleviated easier, faster and more completely than the combination of racism plus Feudal era class, caste, gender, religious, national, language, etc prejudices.

Black Panther / Re: Shuri gets her own series
« on: June 26, 2019, 09:42:39 pm »

When you don't have a writer on the book because the main writer has walked off AND you don't have a replacement? That book IS CANCELLED. Period.

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