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Messages - Rutog98

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1
Black Panther / Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« on: July 09, 2017, 10:10:33 am »
Storm as a character, is where her easily pleased (but mostly fairweather fans) have placed her.

That sunken place of total irrelevancy.

More like she's being ignored by writers because they prefer other characters (i.e. Guggenheim prefers Kitty, Fraction preferred Emma Frost, etc.).  Since Storm, when written well, would overshadow their pets, she is scaled back to give them the center stage.

2
Black Panther / Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« on: July 08, 2017, 11:24:19 pm »
Storm needs to be on way more merchandise (by herself).  Marvel Licensing is really dropping the ball, there's no excuse at this point for her not to be "everywhere" at least as prolific as black widow is on merchandise. T-shirts, coffee mugs, office stationery, etc.

You're just telling it like it is...

3
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther #15 (Spoilers in Pg. 8)
« on: June 28, 2017, 04:09:31 pm »
I was talking on one of the other CBR BP threads and had an idea.

What would you guys think if Tchalla married someone else, but kept Storm as an official mistress? She gets the relationship she wants without the responsibilities and he fulfills his Kingly duties to Wakanda.

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! That would be character assassination for Ororo.

4
The thing is, I really really really really really came in with an open mind for season two.

Despite the Storm stuff, I actually liked the first two issues of this season.

But, f*ck, this issue just brought back all the "wtf????" stuff from Season 1 again.

- T'challa is back to moping, this time around Storm. Why can't he just ask her for help? WHy does he have to mope first? Or sh*t, why not go ask a real God with weather powers instead. Go teleport to Asgard and share some Mead with Thor or something.

- I like Shuri. But for f*cksake, why is she taking all the King of the Dead stuff? Why does T'challa not know a thing about Wakandan ancient History? Why haven't we been told whot he f*ck Mother was? How do all the Black Panthers have no idea what is going on but SHuri's connection to the Griots do?

And hey... remember when we said having Zombie powers isn't practical? LOL at how that worked out.

So, Shuri shuri has all this past knowledge to drop exposition. She can summon zombie warriors. She is also fast as sh*t with cool cheetah artwork. And turn to stone. And turn into a bird.

Meanwhile T'challa...... ??????

- T'challa just can't find a way to stand out in his own book. Can he at least drop some battle strategy? Invent some tech to shut the doors? Can we see some enhanced strength? enhanced speed? Can we see some dope ass martial arts?

All he is good for is tracking these days. Can't even gets some cool force push feats anymore lol.


The problem is, not matter how much Coates "Improves" He will never champion T'Challa, He will short change him everytime, he won't pretend to care by throwing him a bone every once in awhile. He simply gives him subpar showings and insults the mythos and what came before with his new trash creations.

Back To moping for.... Reasons, Storm is at fault and he is apologizing and saying that same bullshiit ver and over while she claims fault for non of her actions. storm isn't a goddess. Yet Coates keeps coming back to that same crap and involving her in shiit she knows nothing about or cares about notice how she lowkey disses Wakanda.

Shuri is the new T'Challa. She took his KotD power, can use it better then he can because she can summon Zombies, has more knowledge then him about Wakanda, and Mother and the griots somehow have the answers, despite her not actually fully learning everything from Mother. also funny How the Previous BPs are just as clueless as T'challa but them griots sure got this on lock, and She actually seems like she has superpowers. whereas T'Challa went from battlling gods and cosmic beings to... Struggling against lizard people, ape/yeti's with overly used force push. he has no h2h skills, zero supergenius, zero tech, zero physical feats, and zero preplanning or battle strategy. its "I assume you have ideas?" to Shuri.... Fuuck outta here with that mess.Oh and don't expect him to use that "Scientist at heart" crap Coates pulled for anything useful. He'll probably end up borrowing some tech from Doom again to try and fix the issue.

We should of been seen super genius ubertech coming in and laying waste to these creatures and sealing the gates. Plus its not as though Tchalla is unfamiliar with mystics, yet Coates is not only making him clueless about mystics, but really everything that makes T'Challa a superhuman in general.




Okay, I'm gonna play Devil's advocate for some of what you said in this post and then flat out disagree with you on the other stuff.

1) The first thing I would like to address in your post is T'challa relying on Shuri for battle strategy. To be fair, when he and Shuri both showed up on the battlefield, he held down the fort fighting the vanyans and sent her off to locate the mystical doorway that allowed them access to this world. After she found it, she was able to take stock of the situation and devise a plan of attack for how to get in close to the mystical doorway. T'challa was not present, thus he could not create a plan of attack to get to the portal itself because he was not able to see the situation as she was. Therefore, it would make sense that she would be the one to come up with a strategy on how to get close enough to the portal so seal it shut. Can you tell me how this exactly devalues T'challa in this instance? While I have only read issues 13 and 15 of this series (because of Storm's appearance), I am not in a position to disagree with you and other posters when you talk about how Panther is being written down in the other issues I have not perused. However, I do raise a question about your claim in this instance.

That said, I can't believe I am actually defending Shuri as I have NEVER liked this character. Ordinarily, in instances like this when dealing with a character I dislike being criticized, I would keep my mouth shut while you and others knock her down even if I saw a flaw in your arguments. However, I am making an exception that my rule here.

2) Regarding your comment about Storm not being a goddess, she was designed from day 1 to be a 3-dimenionsal goddess. Claremont stated this early on in an interview:

it was 1979 from Rampage Magazine(UK)


The interviewer (someone called Richard Burton, I'll abbreviate it to RB) is asking Chris various questions, working through the characters...

"RB: Storm next...

Chris Claremont: Storm is basically what she is...a goddess, a three-dimensional goddess, if such a thing is possible.


RB: When the new X-Men first appeared Storm was probably the most powerful and dramatic member. Do you feel now that she's been slightly upstaged by Phoenix?

Chris Claremont: No. In equal terms of raw power, they're approximately equal.

Jean can maintain a higher burst...she can peak higher than Storm but she can't hold it for long. The thing with Storm is that all we've done till now is show her throwing lightning bolts and creating hurricanes, but she can do far more. Phoenix is more visual - the 'bird effect' is more spectacular. So the gist of it is that they complement each other. They do different things in different ways."


Furthermore, it has been established several times in canon that Ororo has the power equal to that of a goddess. Here are two instances: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/XgA7944Ki0F8haUhKH0V-P7flYCaIegdNywYSzZgYo-e4VLNMl4D9eEXEICRqszg5nE-MJwSg8lU=s0

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/TAwChcSe1Jj6ZJ0YwHD8GZYwJKOQeGxi_R1cP09GsiYuKr4mxst8q3zu5ItPOCQ9tMALzeRoXa-e=s1600

Not only that, but when written at her best, Ororo has enormous feats under her belt that match and surpass anything done by Phoenix Force Jean Grey to date. Ororo once challenged the thee supreme beings for an entire reality/dimension and bested them in battle. These beings were so powerful that they were the sum of all matter, life, and energy for an entire reality's/dimenion's past present and future. Not only did she defeat these entities, when that reality started falling apart at its seams, she literally stitched it back together. Her power is to perceive the universe as patterns of energy which she can bend to her will. This includes, stars, planets, empty space, and entire realities. Furthermore, her powers are limited only by the strength of her will and body. When at her best, there appears to be no upper limits to her willpower (remember how McDuffie had her host the essence of Eternity because of her willpower? Eternity is the sum of all matter and energy that exists in the entire OMNIVERSE:  http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/721892/etpf1.jpg.html
http://imgur.com/2GbB1LF)

Along with Ororo's ability to perceive the universe as patterns of energy she can bend to her will, while observing the universe as such, she can observe how energies and forces work together, study and feel them, and then replicate what she sees. This is how she learned to control the weather. I have also seen her create clothing out of thin air via electron manipulation and even connect with the time stream. Heck, an alternate reality version was able to observe a time portal somebody had created before that portal sealed with her alternate vision and then used her powers to create a time portal herself that took her to the exact date to where the original time portal lead to. 616 Storm has already been shown to be sensitive to the timestream, so its not a stretch at all to think she could create time portals as well like her alternate reality counterpart.

Anyway, what I am saying is the potential applications of Ororo's powers is literally limitless. T'challa did the right thing is going to Storm for help on this one. When taken at her best she dwarfs Thor and a whole bunch of other so-called "gods" in terms of power.  I hope Coates does his thing with Storm and has her do something MAD powerful in the near future!!!

3) Regarding T'challa's and Ororo's break-up, I don't hold it against either character to be honest. Both characters were written out-of-character in that instance. If you take that out-of-character writing into consideration, however, T'challa does have a a MAJOR thing to apologize for. That marriage was ended without notifying her or even trying to enterain a way to try and fix the divide between the two. That's HUGE!

Concerning Ororo and her team infiltrating Wakanda, she and her husband were on two different sides of a war and Wakanda played a role in the war. What was she going to do? Call up T'challa and ask his permission to invade? Besides, she was queen at the time. Wouldn't that imply that she had every legal right to be there anyway? I mean, if a man and woman are married, she doesn't need his permission to enter their home.

4) I have no problems with T'challa saying Storm is something more than a queen. Anything that elevates Ororo like that gets a stamp of approval in my book.

5) Regarding T'challa saying he was lonely and complaining about being king, I do have to agree that it doesn't dovetail with Hudlin's portrayal of the character. Honestly, the way that marriage was annulled reflected HORRIBLY on T'challa. Yeah, complaints can probably be made against Ororo here, but T'challa took it to a whole other level in the way he dissipated their marriage in AvX. I think what Coates is doing is trying to figure out a way to undo the character assissination that that Panther endured in AvX.  Perhaps the way Coates is trying to do this isn't the best way given that it goes against so much contintuity showing T'challa comfortable in his role as king.

5
Black Panther / BP & Crew #5 and BP #17
« on: May 23, 2017, 10:14:18 am »
What do you guys think?

BLACK PANTHER AND THE CREW #6
TA-NEHISI COATES & YONA HARVEY (W) • BUTCH GUICE (A)
Cover by JOHN CASSADAY
• Black Panther and the Crew finally crack the case surrounding the mysterious death of Harlem community pillar Ezra Keith!
• In the wake of Ezra’s life one thing is certain: the world needs the Crew now more than ever!
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$3.99

BLACK PANTHER #17
TA-NEHISI COATES (W) • CHRIS SPROUSE (A)
Cover by BRIAN STELFREEZE
Connecting Variant Cover by TBA
Marvel vs. Capcom Variant Cover by TBA
FOREVER MY LADY!
• T’Challa’s got royalty in his DNA, but does he have the loyalty of a goddess in his corner?
• Ororo Munroe, also known as Storm of the X-Men and former queen of Wakanda, is back in T’Challa’s life. But is it for good this time? Or will country come between a man and his queen again?



6
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther #14 Discussion (Preview)
« on: May 20, 2017, 04:00:55 pm »
I've seen youtube videos of Coates being described as a "buffer negro". The idea that he is used as a black face to sell leftist political and social agendas to the black community.



Okay, so I did a search on youtube on Coates based on what you said. Here is a video that immediately popped up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziGKDHAOsu8

I have only read issue 13 of Black Panther and saw some posted scans on CBR of Coates writing Storm like a chump in an earlier issue of the title. Is everything the guy saying about Coates in this Black Panther book accurate? Is he exaggerating or being misleading on some of this stuff?

Yep, I posted same video. It is on first page. He is not accurate about the Dora, but as far as Coates that is more matter of opinion. I do think he has an agenda, but not sure if it is part of a social conspiracy. Just wanted to see what others in this group thought about it.

Here is another video with that guy talking about the buffer thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZKjEa8DBDM

I'd like to read what people on this board think as well.

7
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther #14 Discussion (Preview)
« on: May 20, 2017, 03:29:00 pm »
I've seen youtube videos of Coates being described as a "buffer negro". The idea that he is used as a black face to sell leftist political and social agendas to the black community.

Okay, so I did a search on youtube on Coates based on what you said. Here is a video that immediately popped up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziGKDHAOsu8

I have only read issue 13 of Black Panther and saw some posted scans on CBR of Coates writing Storm like a chump in an earlier issue of the title. Is everything the guy saying about Coates in this Black Panther book accurate? Is he exaggerating or being misleading on some of this stuff?

8
Oh, please. You are reading FAR too much into that. Storm's track record for men is solid. Lets just take a look, shall we?: T'challa, Forge, Arkon, Dr. Doom, Khan, Cable, Slipstream, Wolverine, and Loki. There, Storm is straight.

"Oh, please. You are reading FAR too much into that. Iceman's track record for women is solid. Lets just take a look, shall we?: Judy Harmon, Cloud, Zelda Kurtzberg, Polaris, Opal Tanaka, Annie Ghazkanian, Mystique, and Kitty. There, Iceman is straight."

See how that works? 8)

I also find it interesting that you insist on using on-panel evidence for one part of her backstory, but not when it comes to her "wokeness" or her skill with firearms.

In any case, Storm isn't straight.  She isn't lesbian.  She isn't bi, or any of the other shades of the sexual orientation spectrum.

She's fictional.  If a writer wants her straight, she's straight.  If a writer wants her lesbian, she's lesbian.  If they want her to have a torrid affair with Lockheed, that dragon is getting lucky. :D

By the Ice Man logic, Storm having so many guys, must mean she's gay.  Otherwise it would be just one or two serious relationships.

Storm actually married a man, Bobby never got married. On top of that, she was not the one to end the marriage. So, there ya go! Storm is straght.

9
Just discovered there is a potential relationship between Storm and Yukio?




Oh, please. You are reading FAR too much into that. Storm's track record for men is solid. Lets just take a look, shall we?: T'challa, Forge, Arkon, Dr. Doom, Khan, Cable, Slipstream, Wolverine, and Loki. There, Storm is straight.

10
It's like it's the latest Scott vs. Storm thread (which backfired on Storm fans horribly) on CBR, is leaking on to here. The 90's are over. So her notoriety is fading hard. Unless....there was some super secret high sales of her solo, that we all missed. A solo that Storm literally only got because of Kamala Kahn.

And Storm being written as being "secretly woke" is less believable than (hypothetically speaking) T'challa being uncovered as a Germany born, Asian, schoolgirl. Her "awakening" would be more believable if she didn't do things like getting mad at Cecilia Reyes after she merely called her a "sistah" in a comrade-esque manner, back in the 90's. Storm's been pretty much indifferent towards Black Americans for decades. Heck, she clearly never even read anything about MLK or Malcolm X before she was married to BP. So I HIGHLY doubt she was actually "woke" before this hamfisted personality retcon.

Storm's always been written that way, because it placates a certain segment of white people, anti-"Negritude" non-blacks, and jittery black folks who don't wanna "rock the boat". You don't get to completely whitewash that bullsh*t (and ironclad) portion of her character away now, and pretend it never happened, when it was deliberate for over 40 years. It just makes you a hack writer. Instead, Storm should have had somewhat of a redemption arc, where she came to terms with her failings, and actually grew as a character. Hudlin had it right, where it showed that Storm was taking baby steps in LEARNING about what it means to be black. But instead of showing what it means to be a  good comic writer, we have this pitiful crap with milquetoast Coates.

Her popularity extended beyond the 90s.  She was very popular in the 2000s as well under Claremont's pen when he wrote X-Treme X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. Her character started suffering in the x-books when Matt Fraction took over. That said, the elements that made the character so popular extending back to the mid 1970s (because she was very popular in the mid 70s and 80s as well) are still very much a part of her character. The last couple of x-writers simply prefer other characters like Emma, or Kitty, or Scott, etc, so they scale Storm back in order for their pets to shine. They end up making her boring. She is NOT interesting right now because writers are ignoring the aspects of her character that made her such a huge success. If writer came on board the X-Men titles and tapped into those aspects again with the character and explored the various avenues in those veins which are still largely unchartered, you'll find a huge base of readers ready to support the character. (This is one of the reasons I was so excited to see Coates briefly tap into the "goddess" aspect of the character in BP #13. If you got the right x-writer to delve deeply into that and do it justice, it could be VERY exciting and re-energize the fanbase...and this is just an example. However, I don't think Guggenheim is the writer for that. I think he'd likely just mess it up as I am of the opinion he lacks the creativity to do such an undertaking justice.) 

People are tired of reading Storm stories about the Morlocks, Yukio, and Forge. That's tired and that was Pak's mistake to start the first half year of the book rehashing those old stories. On top of that, her powers are being used in a very lazy way in the X-Men books as well. She might as well be a flying Cyclops who shoots lightning from her hands instead of optic blasts from her eyes as writers restrict her only to lightning nowadays for the most part. On top of it, she's not that indomitably-willed character with the strength of personality to face down a lion bare-handed without the use of her elemental powers. She's just insecure and pathetic right now.

Edit: Also, while Cyclops is more popular than Ororo on the CBR board, I don't think he would be generally speaking off the internet. Also, if Storm were written well, I suspect many of those fans who voted for Scott in that thread may change over.

One more thing, all of these arguments as to why Storm could not have been "secretly woked" is falling on deaf ears when it comes to me. This is a good move for her character, therefore, I support it 100%. I don't care what anybody has to say about why she shouldn't be woked. The authors of BP and the Crew are doing Ororo justice and I applaud them. Now, case closed...

First of all Guggenheim is awful. He made a pointless and stupid change to the core of Blade's character, because his imagination is on par with Coates'.

Secondly, Storm was bland to me and a lot of folks even in the 2000s. Which is why Marvel had no idea what to do with her for years, up until the marriage.

Lastly, I didn't say that Storm "shouldn't be secretly woke". Just that it's poorly done and that she needs an actual redemption arc for her long and tenured history of being inept at addressing her black side. And when it comes to associating with black people/issues. It's "amazing" how the people who called the marriage rushed, have NO problem with Storms black awareness being even more rushed. And rushed to a ridiculous degree. Especially since the latter is a part of her personal ideology and will be with her for longer than any Marvel Marriage.

Which just further proves that her union with a black dude is a dealbreaker with her fanbase.

1) A redemption arc for Ororo sounds like a good idea. Maybe it could be something centered around her cousin and grandparents on her paternal side. I don't know, but a story arc like this done well would be great in my book!

2) Its not the fact that Black Panther is black that took most of her fans aback. I just don't buy that. I think its more many of them had their hearts set on Ororo dating Wolverine (ugh!), Gambit, Nightcrawler, Forge (UGH!) or somebody she's known well for many years and T'challa just seemed to come out of left field for them. Many of them believed that the two were thrown together simply for the color of their skin. Personally, I saw that there was a lot of potential in a Storm/Panther union. Also, at the time, Storm and Logan were starting to go on dates with each other which irked me. I wanted an end to that quick, fast, and in a hurry, so, when Panther came along, I was open-minded. This is not the same as this "woke" business with Ororo.

11
Just discovered there is a potential relationship between Storm and Yukio?

No, there isn't. Storm is straight.

12
It's like it's the latest Scott vs. Storm thread (which backfired on Storm fans horribly) on CBR, is leaking on to here. The 90's are over. So her notoriety is fading hard. Unless....there was some super secret high sales of her solo, that we all missed. A solo that Storm literally only got because of Kamala Kahn.

And Storm being written as being "secretly woke" is less believable than (hypothetically speaking) T'challa being uncovered as a Germany born, Asian, schoolgirl. Her "awakening" would be more believable if she didn't do things like getting mad at Cecilia Reyes after she merely called her a "sistah" in a comrade-esque manner, back in the 90's. Storm's been pretty much indifferent towards Black Americans for decades. Heck, she clearly never even read anything about MLK or Malcolm X before she was married to BP. So I HIGHLY doubt she was actually "woke" before this hamfisted personality retcon.

Storm's always been written that way, because it placates a certain segment of white people, anti-"Negritude" non-blacks, and jittery black folks who don't wanna "rock the boat". You don't get to completely whitewash that bullsh*t (and ironclad) portion of her character away now, and pretend it never happened, when it was deliberate for over 40 years. It just makes you a hack writer. Instead, Storm should have had somewhat of a redemption arc, where she came to terms with her failings, and actually grew as a character. Hudlin had it right, where it showed that Storm was taking baby steps in LEARNING about what it means to be black. But instead of showing what it means to be a  good comic writer, we have this pitiful crap with milquetoast Coates.

Her popularity extended beyond the 90s.  She was very popular in the 2000s as well under Claremont's pen when he wrote X-Treme X-Men and Uncanny X-Men. Her character started suffering in the x-books when Matt Fraction took over. That said, the elements that made the character so popular extending back to the mid 1970s (because she was very popular in the mid 70s and 80s as well) are still very much a part of her character. The last couple of x-writers simply prefer other characters like Emma, or Kitty, or Scott, etc, so they scale Storm back in order for their pets to shine. They end up making her boring. She is NOT interesting right now because writers are ignoring the aspects of her character that made her such a huge success. If writer came on board the X-Men titles and tapped into those aspects again with the character and explored the various avenues in those veins which are still largely unchartered, you'll find a huge base of readers ready to support the character. (This is one of the reasons I was so excited to see Coates briefly tap into the "goddess" aspect of the character in BP #13. If you got the right x-writer to delve deeply into that and do it justice, it could be VERY exciting and re-energize the fanbase...and this is just an example. However, I don't think Guggenheim is the writer for that. I think he'd likely just mess it up as I am of the opinion he lacks the creativity to do such an undertaking justice.) 

People are tired of reading Storm stories about the Morlocks, Yukio, and Forge. That's tired and that was Pak's mistake to start the first half year of the book rehashing those old stories. On top of that, her powers are being used in a very lazy way in the X-Men books as well. She might as well be a flying Cyclops who shoots lightning from her hands instead of optic blasts from her eyes as writers restrict her only to lightning nowadays for the most part. On top of it, she's not that indomitably-willed character with the strength of personality to face down a lion bare-handed without the use of her elemental powers. She's just insecure and pathetic right now.

Edit: Also, while Cyclops is more popular than Ororo on the CBR board, I don't think he would be generally speaking off the internet. Also, if Storm were written well, I suspect many of those fans who voted for Scott in that thread may change over.

One more thing, all of these arguments as to why Storm could not have been "secretly woked" is falling on deaf ears when it comes to me. This is a good move for her character, therefore, I support it 100%. I don't care what anybody has to say about why she shouldn't be woked. The authors of BP and the Crew are doing Ororo justice and I applaud them. Now, case closed...

13
Before TNC started writing BP? I swore this dude would do BP right. I mean...I swore. I just KNEW that by this dude's credentials alone? He'd be the surest Black, do-a-brutha-right scriptor for TChalla besides our Trinity [ Priest, R to the H, McDuffie ] and our Nod For Props [ Liss ]...and our Nice Save Award [ Hickman ].

I was CONFIDENT that this dude would just KILL it, and elevate TChalla to levels of flyness that he should have occupied after R to the H and Priest. Man. I cannot BELIEVE I was so wrong [ don't start, Salustrade. Lol ].

TNC has a contract with Marvel, so we can't get him off the book for now. The best we can hope for? Is that Marvel on their own replaces him with someone we would love. R to the H. Grevioux. SOMEbody. Which we already know, they ain't doing.

This is how it's gonna go down.

BP sales? Continue to depress. Receive temporary bounce from INFINITY WARS. Marvel holds on with gritted teeth until BLACK PANTHER THE MOVIE comes out. TChalla? Gets madd bounce from his movie. And all this? Keeps TNC on the job for way too damn long. TNC? Will see this as validation for his "I write stories for me, anyway" style and will continue to grind TChalla into the ground. He will have done enormous damage to the mythos, and will need to be ejected in every way ASAP when his run ends.

And his run? May last as long as the movies of THE BLACK PANTHER and AVENGERS are successful. Yes, I know I know...there are those who think that the movies don't really impact comics sales. I disagree. I am pretty sure that the strong movies give pretty consistent strong bounces to comic properties, and that will be more apparent as time passes [ because not enough time has passed to give enough data over the years to make a really strong point. This impact will increase as time passes. It's a inclined slope, imo ].

Can you IMAGINE what PRIEST, McDuffie or R to the H would do with such support? Are you KIDDING me?

TChalla's books would be the highest selling books in Marvel, and Top Three in all of comics. You can put exclamation points and #facts #easymoney #sho'yourite on that.


TNC is taking a sledgehammer to the BP mythos. I don't need a wokw Panther, woke Storm or woke writer. I need someone who can write a good story without frakking  the damn character he's writing about. All of a sudden Storm is Sistah Soulja? C'mon man! That sh*t is bogus and flies in the face of years of Marvel separating Storm from her ethnic heritage.

I see people on CBR defending this crap like it's cool and I'm like wtf? Storm was policing Harlem while hiding in the Australian Outback? Really? These people are clinging to anything that will justify Coates being on this book. "Ooh look! A woke Storm who's all 'bout that Black Power!" If they did any kind of crap like that in the X-Books, Storm fans would sh*t fire. Like I said, Storm spent more time in space than she did in Harlem. They have to dig people out the grave to say they know her.

Priest didn't write BP with the approach of being woke. He wrote a straight up badass complicated character. That's all that was needed.


I have no problems with Storm being written as "woke". To be honest, its true to the character to just throw things onto her to make her more complex and multifaceted. I'll give you a good example of this: right after Ororo lost her powers (at the end of Uncanny 185), it was revealed in Uncanny 187 that Ororo was an exceptional marksman with a gun:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/3PfrrER3yhRVx1fqImxXaNc_IYEav5yMKOpREgm2E9eCfWE6_Auf1S-YQFN9n4IsHXG04elgX69Z=s0

So, all of a sudden, we learn that Wolverine had been training Storm how to use a gun all along in case she was ever deprived of her elemental powers in a given situation. Given Storm's pacifist nature that had been a part of the character from day one and continued to be who she was up until she stabbed Callisto in the heart, it would be out-of-character for her to be wielding a gun (and Logan addresses this point in the scan). However, this made the character more interesting, so I applaud it and ask for more surprises with the character. To me, her going back and forth to Harlem while in Aussie using Gateway as her means of travel is a reveal similar to the one with Wolverine training her how to use a gun. Ororo has always been one of those characters who could whip out a new skill or something and be like, "now I can do this". What Coates and Yona Harvey (they co-authored this book) did with this reveal about Ororo is right in step to how the character has always been treated. I'm thankful for this as I think it adds yet another layer onto the character. So, in closing, just like Ororo never showed any skill with a gun prior to Uncanny 187 (when it was revealed she had been trained by Logan all along), the same scenario happened again with her being woke. Yoohoo! :)

One last thing, Storm fans were VERY leery of Coates writing Storm given the way he BADLY handled her when she appeared for a Black Panther issue a couple of months ago. Though I did not read the story for myself, I saw the scans and saw how badly Storm fans criticized Coates for writing Storm like a chump time wimp in battle. The way she is being written in BP & the Crew is a breath of fresh air from how she was handled earlier in BP. Some fans are crediting Yona Harvey for the welcome change.

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Moving on, while I obviously don't know what you guys are complaining about in PB issues 1-12 since I have not read them, in issue 13, T'challa kicked butt and took names. Not only that, but he touched upon an aspect of Ororo that remains largely unexplored eventhough it was a part of the character from day 1: the goddess thing. I just think its a shame that this happened in a BP book where it cannot be fully delved into rather than an X-Men title. That said, I'm not sure the current X-Men writers would do Storm justice if they were to tackle this. I think Coates may do Storm well with this and certainly Claremont would as well.

One issue does not erase 12 issues (plus 5 issues of Gay) of garbage unfortuntely.

And I liked #13. Not everyone did but it was the first issue I liked without qualifying statements. But, that doesn't mean I am ready to ride or die with Coates because of one issue.

Of course he will do Storm justice... he actually likes that character. He saw something in her backstory he wanted to explore and decided to explore it "positively." With T'challa, he saw stuff in T'challa's past he wanted to explore and went negative every singe f*cking time.

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Now, back to BP and the Crew. What Coates is doing is bringing the team together in a very natural and organic way. I believe he is trying to avoid the appearance of just throwing the team together just because they all happen to be black. He is taking his time to build the team and providing a reason why a team that started out with two (Ororo and Misty) is naturally expanding to include the other three members.

And this will get the book cancelled.

he took the least popular member and focused on them in issue one. Took another than has no real fan base (no offense) and that was #2. Meanwhile, the dude who's name is on the title, who has a history of selling titles, got one page. The business strategy here is just... i can't believe editorial let him do such an idiotic thing.

And his "natural" way to building to team is having a set of coincidences happen around a newly introduced character lol. He had to magically make Storm woke to make it work and it seems he had to magically give T'challa a Batcave in Harlem as well.

Instead, he could have had the team come together because, well, Misty asked lol. He could hav eset the book in the present, T'challa owes Misty a favor, she already knows Luke, and T'challa loves him some storm. A much quicker team up, actually makes narrative since without made up coincidences.

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Given the way he wrote T'challa in issue 13 and the way he is writing Ororo right now, I think both characters will get their due in this title.


hopefully. I am not quite ready to exhale about Coates ability to write a capable T'challa. Especially if this issue is set PRE crew appearance, which means T'challa will  likely be in mopey pants mode...

Okay, I concede that you have come up with another way to bring the team together that would have had everyone present at the latest by the last page of issue 1 or the start of issue 2. That said, I don't agree with you about Storm's popularity. She's FAR more popular than you give her credit for, its just Marvel is mishandling the character. Lets look at her solo, for instance: Pak is a good writer and he "gets" the character, but he told the wrong stories. He should have gone for big electrifying stories with A-list villains with enormous power levels to threaten Ororo with in battle. Instead, he started out with a series of rehashed stories harkening back to "Storm's Greatest Hits of the 80s".  Everytime the x-office wants to tell a "Storm" story, its always been about Forge, Callisto/Morlocks, or Yukio...and those stories are tired. Worse, he told those stories back to back and it lasted for nearly half a year. Callisto, Morlock, and Forge got boring many years ago.

Moving on, in the X-Men books, they wrote her as an ineffective leader who is always questioning herself. On top of that, all they have her do is shoot lightning with her powers. She possesses one of the most unusual and exciting powersets in all of Marvel with reserves of power on a cosmic scale and look at how they underuse her abilities.  >:( In IvsX, she should have been front and center in that storyarc. She could have laid siege to all of Attilan on her own given her powerset. She could have stolen into Attilan the night before like the theif she is and captured Blackbolt while he was sleeping. She could have kidnapped him, given him to Psylocke to keep him psychically sedated and then brought Attilan under siege with her powers. While Storm is unleashing her elemental barrage against Attilan, Emma, Rachel, and teenaged Jean could have pooled their psi powers together to stir up a civil war in Attilan amongst the Inhumans (keep in mind that Emma by herself is a strong enough telepath to mentally enslave an entire city, and in this case, Jean's and Rachel's telepathy would be added to her own psi). So, now the Inhumans would have to not only deal with the elemental assault that is levelling their city, but half of their own people would be turned against them in a civil war fashion thanks to the X-Men's telepaths. Then you could have had Forge tapping into the Inhuman's data banks and crashing their technology. Instead, we got the crap we got.

Again, the point is, I still maintain that Storm is the most popular black character not only in Marvel, but in all comicdom. She has the broadest appeal in terms of a diverse racial demographic of readership as well. The problem is, Marvel is writing the character down. If they started showing her awesomeness again, Marvel would see the fans quick to respond and support the character.

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Before TNC started writing BP? I swore this dude would do BP right. I mean...I swore. I just KNEW that by this dude's credentials alone? He'd be the surest Black, do-a-brutha-right scriptor for TChalla besides our Trinity [ Priest, R to the H, McDuffie ] and our Nod For Props [ Liss ]...and our Nice Save Award [ Hickman ].

I was CONFIDENT that this dude would just KILL it, and elevate TChalla to levels of flyness that he should have occupied after R to the H and Priest. Man. I cannot BELIEVE I was so wrong [ don't start, Salustrade. Lol ].

TNC has a contract with Marvel, so we can't get him off the book for now. The best we can hope for? Is that Marvel on their own replaces him with someone we would love. R to the H. Grevioux. SOMEbody. Which we already know, they ain't doing.

This is how it's gonna go down.

BP sales? Continue to depress. Receive temporary bounce from INFINITY WARS. Marvel holds on with gritted teeth until BLACK PANTHER THE MOVIE comes out. TChalla? Gets madd bounce from his movie. And all this? Keeps TNC on the job for way too damn long. TNC? Will see this as validation for his "I write stories for me, anyway" style and will continue to grind TChalla into the ground. He will have done enormous damage to the mythos, and will need to be ejected in every way ASAP when his run ends.

And his run? May last as long as the movies of THE BLACK PANTHER and AVENGERS are successful. Yes, I know I know...there are those who think that the movies don't really impact comics sales. I disagree. I am pretty sure that the strong movies give pretty consistent strong bounces to comic properties, and that will be more apparent as time passes [ because not enough time has passed to give enough data over the years to make a really strong point. This impact will increase as time passes. It's a inclined slope, imo ].

Can you IMAGINE what PRIEST, McDuffie or R to the H would do with such support? Are you KIDDING me?

TChalla's books would be the highest selling books in Marvel, and Top Three in all of comics. You can put exclamation points and #facts #easymoney #sho'yourite on that.


I may have believed you on that point too initially with Coates... But that was before the interviews... And Thats when Red Flags started popping up. He had nothing good to say at all. It was I dont like this, or I don't understand that.

That there showed he didn't care. Then his run solidified him as a unfan worse then mayberry



While I can't comment on the Black Panther title since I have only read issue 13 (which I loved and I am loving Coates treatment of Ororo in BP& the Crew), your comment about Maberry is not fair. He was working under a bad editorial mandate. Given those circumstances, he did a good job. I, personally, did not like his run, but again, that was not his fault. I believe that had he been given the freedom to write the way he wanted to, he would have blown us all away. The guy is a good writer.

Edit: While I loved BP & the Crew #2, the blue black skin was too over the top. Coates calls himself trying to show Ororo's "blackness" with that, but this is not Ororo's skin tone: http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/11/20/501152390/how-khoudia-diop-learned-to-love-her-dark-skin

Also, a person's "blackness" is not defined by the lightness or darkness of their own black skin. It is defined by a mentality and being comfortable in one's own skin. I think this sends the wrong message. For me, the only blemish on a solid issue.

Moving on, while I obviously don't know what you guys are complaining about in PB issues 1-12 since I have not read them, in issue 13, T'challa kicked butt and took names. Not only that, but he touched upon an aspect of Ororo that remains largely unexplored eventhough it was a part of the character from day 1: the goddess thing. I just think its a shame that this happened in a BP book where it cannot be fully delved into rather than an X-Men title. That said, I'm not sure the current X-Men writers would do Storm justice if they were to tackle this. I think Coates may do Storm well with this and certainly Claremont would as well.

Now, back to BP and the Crew. What Coates is doing is bringing the team together in a very natural and organic way. I believe he is trying to avoid the appearance of just throwing the team together just because they all happen to be black. He is taking his time to build the team and providing a reason why a team that started out with two (Ororo and Misty) is naturally expanding to include the other three members. Given the way he wrote T'challa in issue 13 and the way he is writing Ororo right now, I think both characters will get their due in this title.

Anyway, that's my take on it.


Considering Mayberry Paraded around claiming it was a BP event and he was a BP fan and "wait till the end its gonna be great" all the while making Wakanda look bad and makign Doom better thne everyone else, then when it came down to the final showdown, Doom Beats T'Challas ass, then Mayberry has T'Challa Thanking Doom for teachng him and Wakanda a lesson and then to top it off, let him off with a slap on the wrist. then after the Fact Mayberry comes back and claims it was a Doom centered event all along... I doubt that editorial is to blame...


Maybe you are right, maybe you are not. I recall Maberry wanting Storm to cut loose like nobody's business against Doom and his forces, but the had to cut the scene out because of editorial mandate. Maybe the editors wanted the series to end like that contrary to what Maberry originally intended?

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