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Messages - sinjection1

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Black Panther / Re: Avengers and T'challa
« on: May 21, 2010, 07:35:16 am »
How many Avengers teams are there? Are there any black characters on any of those teams at this time? I'd bet there isn't. I understand Cage is leading the T-Bolts (which I don't and won't read) and the Panther seems to be persona non grata. Monica Rambeau isn't on any team's roster, neither is the Falcon. Aside from Triathlon, I'm not aware of any other black characters who were of any consequence to the Avengers.

What with the interest in vampire/werewolf/supernatural stories/characters, one might think the more supernatural aspects of voodoo would be a spicy addition to the mix but rather than Dr. Voodoo receiving more fan interest, I've seen a few whining posts lamenting the fact that Dr. Strange is Sorceror Supreme no longer with calls for Strange to be restored to that position post haste. It appears that what I once read is true. Writers work with the characters they want and feel most comfortable using and whom most readers are most likely to accept and enjoy. T'Challa has seemed always to have not met that criteria.

T'Challa will always be limited by constraints of his Royal office. The Wakandans do not want their King galavanting all over the world, the galaxies, time periods, alternate realities/dimensions. The Wakandans want their King to have his behind firmly planted on the Panther they can look at him apparently, whenever the mood moves them to do so. Writing T'Challa, Ororo, and Shuri has to become less restrictive if those characters - T'Challa and Shuri in especial - will have an opportunity for more exposure.

Black Panther / Re: Shuri in Age of Heroes # 4
« on: May 19, 2010, 05:08:55 am »
Only, it seems to be being written by JM.  For a character to truly suceed, other writers need to want to write her.

A Black Panther (Shuri) White Tiger (Angela Del Toro) team up written by Tamora Pierce and Timothy Liebe. Me, myself and I would buy it.

He's on this promo pic..

I've seen this promo but for some reason, didn't connect it to the upcoming animated t.v. show. The Panther is looking good. When it comes to style, functionality, and the intimidation/coolness factor, the Black Panther habit is second to none when compared to the costume/garb of the other superhero types. I always preferred the Panther without the cape, especially when the character is in battle. He (and/or she) appears more streamlined and sleek without the cape.

I agree & John Byrne petty much says he always intened for Northstar to be gay/created Northstar as gay man.

Was it your intended when you created Northstar that he would be a gay man?

JB: When I created Alpha Flight they were basically half a dozen characters who could survive a prolonged battle with the X-Men. They had very little depth -- tho I am a compulsive creator of backstory, so I knew something about their histories even then -- and were not really created with any thought toward them eventually getting their own title.
Unfortunately (?) they proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book. Eventually I relented, and agreed to do the series -- which meant I had one problem instantly: I had to find ways to make those characters more three dimensional.

Very interesting. "Unfortunately(?) they [Alpha Flight] proved enormously popular, and so Marvel began pushing me to do an ALPHA FLIGHT book." In my always humble opinion, Alpha Flight was one of the more exciting concepts developed for Marvel Comics period. The characters were fresh, original, intriguing, diverse, and dynamic---as exciting if not more so, than the X-Men. Byrne's comments seem to suggest he wasn't altogether enthused about his creation and that's what strikes me as being unfortunate. I now have to wonder if the very untimely death of James Hudson/Vindicator could have been Byrne's way of sabotaging Alpha Flight. I would hope not. An Alpha Flight team consisting of: Vindicator/J. Hudson, Guardian/H. Hudson, Sasquatch, Snowbird, Pathway, Goblyn, Northstar, Aurora, Shaman and Talisman would definitely reinvigorate my flagging interest in comics. A limited series featuring Cloak and Dagger as temporary members of the Imperial Guard would catch my interest as well. By the way 4Sake, whatever happened to Pathway and Goblyn? I doubt they're on Utopia.

One of the things that popped immediately into my head was to make one of them Gay. I had recently read an article in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN on what was then (the early 80s) fairly radical new thinking on just what processes caused a person to be homosexual, and the evidence was pointing increasingly to it being genetic and not environmental factors. So, I thought, it seemed like it was time for a Gay superhero, and since I was being "forced" to make ALPHA FLIGHT a real series, I might as well make one of them Gay.

hmmmm...Byrne felt "forced" to develop his excellent Alpha Flight concept as an ongoing and feeling put upon, decided to make a Flight member gay. Any inspiration for introducing a gay character Byrne might have found in the Scientific American article makes perfect sense to me. But it seems that the other part of Byrne's reasoning for making a Flight member gay was a sort of retaliation for being "forced" to produce the Alpha Flight ongoing.  :-\....don't know what to make of that.

From there, it was a process of elimination. I didn't want the homosexual character to be one of the girls, since that was something people tended to associate (rightly or wrongly) with Claremont books.

Like Storm for instance. Ororo might not have been headed toward homosexuality but in the opinions of many Claremont/x-geeks, Storm's bisexuality was established fact. Hudlin's MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY might not have ended this speculation but like RoLo, the "Storm is bisexual" express has been derailed by one of Hudlin's "many mistakes".

Mac Hudson and Heather were happily married and I did not want to mess with that.

Nope. Don't let homosexuality become an issue in Mac and Heather's marriage; ugly, hairy, height-challenged dirty old men however... go for it. Both Wolverine and Puck had a thing for Mrs. Hudson at one time or another. In addition, IIRC, there was a significant age difference between Mac and Heather (ala Reed and Sue). The Hudsons didn't need any additional pressures on their marriage.

Michael was widowed with a daughter, and that way lay what I considered too much of a cliche, if he turned out to be Gay. Besides, as a Native Canadian he was already the resident "minority". The new guy, Puck, had his own set of problems.

Heightened focus on a character's sexual orientation is a fairly recent phenomenon. Readers of Kid Colt, Two-Gun Kid, and Rawhide Kid weren't overly concerned with the sexuality of those characters. Yes, while there may or may not have been hints of homosexuality, obvious heterosexuality has always been depicted in a very tame way in comics. Heterosexual flirtations and marriages were prevalent. How many readers thought of heterosexual characters as a "majority"? Homosexuals are a minority---an "invisible" minority. Dr. Twoyoungmen/Shaman - a Native American - was a visible "resident minority". Laura Dean - a Black female - was a visible "resident minority" of Beta Flight. Had either Shaman or Pathway been homosexual as well, the reader would not have noticed this added aspect of "minority" status unless they learned of it through the character's public or private thoughts or statements on the matter or through intimate interaction with a character of their same gender.

Sasquatach would be just too damn scary!!

...just too damn scary to be gay? I'm aware of the "lipstick lesbian" and super-fine gay male stereotypes out there. Throw the metrosexual in there too. Walter Langkowski wasn't "just too damn scary" to bed the beautiful Jeanne-Marie Baubier.

So I settled on Jean-Paul, and the moment I did I realized it was already there. Somewhere in the back of my mind I must have been considering making him Gay before I "decided" to so so.

Every member of Alpha Flight was interesting; however, it seemed to me that Northstar was gaining in fan popularity at a faster rate than the others. I remember confirmed Northstar's homosexuality making t.v. national news reports. Looking back on Jean-Paul's earliest civilian appearances, he did seem aloof of the female attention he received. At the time, I chalked it all up to his being an arrogant ass. Eventually however, I did pick up on certain clues - the interaction between himself and Aurora when they both believed Langkowski to have been killed and his "mysterious illness" that appeared to me to be the A.I.D.S. virus at that time.

Of course, the temper of the times, the Powers That Were and, naturally, the Comics Code would not let me come right out and state that Jean-Paul was homosexual, but I managed to "get the word out" even with those barriers. (8/24/2004)

The Rawhide Kid didn't become homosexual until recently, 5 years or so. Since Northstar, it seems there has been a proliferation of characters either being created homosexual or allowing circumstances of how established characters have been written to dictate their sexual orientation. Recently, I learned that the character Shatterstar is homosexual although his creator says he did not create him as such. As with the Rawhide Kid, editors interpreted Shatterstar's limited interaction with females as being a preference for males. The same could happen to Nezhno.

Also Bling!/Roxanne ''Roxy'' Washington is both black/AA & a lesbian.. 8)

These scans are the most attractive illustrations of Bling I"ve seen to date. Like Jessica Jones (who was looking quite fetching legs crossed and wearing bunny slippers) it appears some artists have decided to give Bling a break from the ugly stick.

Also was thinking the today that there are a many characters that could easily identify as being mixed/multiracial(who right now are only know to be white)...  They could multiracial because the way they been drawn/the way there parents have been drawn/their parents haven't been show yet/their character history  & few other reasons.  Off the of top head Mercury, Gambit Cloud 9, Carmilla Black/Thanasee Rappaccini, Iron Fist/Rand & Rockslide could easy be multiracial characters..

Really? Worth investigating in my spare time. Marvel doesn't seem shy about hooking up attractive black female characters with white male characters and at least 2 of those white characters have killed their black female lovers: Calypso/Kraven The Hunter - I believe Kraven killed Calypso. Nekra (black, although her skin is chalk-white)/Grim Reaper - Reaper killed Nekra. Wolverine has kissed Storm once or twice. Misty Knight pregnant and engaged to Danny Rand. Celia Reyes/Hank McCoy. Glory Grant (J.J. Jameson's erstwhile secretary) dated the hispanic characters Hector Ayala and Eduardo Lobo.


I defer to your more comprehensive knowledge of all things X-Men  :D I mentioned Pixie because of the memory of some member at "the other place" suggesting the two of them together.

If the New X-Men ever get a book again I'd like to see him date :

Dust - the both have outside looking in thing going when it come to being X-students & they seem to have mutual respect for each other & ..

I don't follow the mutants anymore, but I do have a vague awareness of the characters. I see an illustration of Dust without her veil. Never saw that before. Knowing Marvel's and the x-writer's penchant for getting their white male characters into the pants of all female characters - white/non-white/extraterrestrial/extra-dimensional, etc...- I expect the rest of Dust's clothes will join her discarded veil and she'll find her completely naked body in the arms of some male X-Man not named Nezhno or Prodigy very soon, if not sooner.

Or Mercury - because she basically(non-toxic) living metal he will be able to feel her because his  vibranium tattoos/powers make hard for him to feel things, but he felt Mercury when she touch him.. 


With their tattoos and all, Nezhno and T'Challa are beginning to look like twin brothers.

Also I remember you mention Prodigy while I'm not really a fan of his, but I thought I'd let u know he was last shown helping Scott organize/run his forces/teams in the 2nd coming.

Cool. I hope Prodigy doesn't manage to get himself killed off by an x-writer anytime soon.

I agree, hopefully when/if he joins again it will get mention more often, but atleast he be in the main cast of the new Avenger cartoon..

I wonder how long we'll have to wait before the Black Panther debut in the series. If I'm looking at the correct promos for the series, it appears we'll have to slog through the back stories of Capt. America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Ant-Man, and Wasp before we get to our (or at least, my) favorite Avenger, the Black Panther.

Yeah those are basically his powers, before m-day he was the leader of his squad Alpha Squadron, he also one of the few gay characters imo that not written like a stereotype/stereotypical way (I don't even notice he was until I read NM vol.2 & New X-Men for the 2nd time),

4Sake, you touch on very interesting subjects. We've all read it posted now and again - indeed, in this very thread - that Marvel Comics needs more black writers writing black characters. We've all discovered that all black writers can't please all black readers all of the time. Hudlin has suffered the slings and arrows of critics black and white alike who have found him lacking when it comes to capturing the true essence of the Black Panther and even moreso, Storm. He once had Storm utter a phrase (it's been so long ago now I've even forgotten what it was Storm even said) however, some deemed that one phrase so much out of Storm's character that it was discussed for quite some time.

So, it's difficult for talented black writers to portray black characters in a fashion that satisfies the diverse comicbook readership, how much more difficult then must it be for a writer to portray a gay character. Black characters are readily identifiable as such unless one takes into account the occasional x-geek who insists Storm - born of a Black-American father and a Kenyan mother - somehow managed to emerge from her black mother's womb a patchwork quilt of mutant humanity. Gays aren't as easily identified. Who would have ever suspected Northstar or Rawhide Kid of being gay? For a long time, Storm was written pretty much asexual (and quite badly IMO) during her earliest X-Men days. Ambiguous writing by Claremont (which I've only read about in forum posts but never seen evidence of in any comicbooks) and suggestive illustrations of Storm and other female characters (again, I"ve only read about these "scenes" in forum posts) has apparently convinced more than a few x-geeks that Storm is bi-sexual. Unless writers have a character come right out - "out of the closet" as it were - and state their sexual orientation or we see evidence of this orientation acted upon with another character, it is impossible to identify a gay character. Meanwhile, a character like Nezhno for instance is a prime target for those who eagerly labeled Storm bi-sexual and who are no doubt disgusted to see that Ororo seems to be a confirmed heterosexual. Unless some writer has Nezhno and Pixie in a Beak/Angel drunken underage intercourse/impregnation fiasco, his sexual orientation is undetermined.

As for his tongue I remember him using it in battle once in New X-Men & once in Young X-Men. In New Mutants vol.2 I vaguely remember him using it to play sports (I think he caught a frisbee & football with it & maybe using it to play basketball once) when the kids there hang out. Plus it looks cool..  8)

I remember watching the Toad character using his tongue in the X-Men Evolution animated series. It just didn't seem to click with me. For one, the tongue is a very sensitive organ. To put it out there in harm's way like that doesn't seem too healthy.

Yeah he some what back.. Selene had Eli Bard resurrect & some what completely control (they were trying to fight our of her control) alot dead former X-Men (he was one the one that was) so that they could battle with & distract X-Men while she had resurrect all 16 million mutants who died on Genosha that died.. Her goal sacrifice/eat their souls so she could become all powerfully/immortal, but she didn't get all the souls she need so she didn't become immortal so Warpath was able to do it defeat/kill her. All  to most of the mutants that were on Genosha souls were taking by her, but not not all the all the dead x-men/mutants that were fighting the X-Men on Utopia were. So he could one of the one who souls wasn't taken by her.  Then they would just need to take the transmode virus  out of his system/body just like they did Doug Ramsey & he would be good as new/maybe even better..

Looks like more X-Men weirdness to me  :D  I'd sure love to see Synch back healthy, whole and as a powerful black male mutant.   

Glad that you do & I agree.. that is one of my main prob. with Kasper (beside he should have never became BP in the 1st.. At a minimum you should atleast be 15-25 % Wakandan/have Wakandan blood to be the BP.. ) I don't mind him calling himself the White Tiger (I think Kasper is a better/cool name than it), but also long as it has nothing to do with Wakanda because doesn't make sense in story.. But even worse was the Gold Lion.. it doesn't make sense at all for there to be Gold Lion in the Panther Cult with there is a Lion Cult in Wakanda & that Lion Cult/Lion God has been shown to dislike/attack T'Challa & hate the Panther Cult. the Gold Lion should be the Lion Cult version of the Black Panther.. An the Crocodile Cult should have the Green Crocodie or something like that..

In total agreement all the way.

Aslo the English/British Howler/Howling Command is Percival ''Percy'' Pinkerton..

Thanks  ;) I think the only two Howlers that have ever stuck in my memory are Sgt Fury and Dum Dum Dugan.

Just as a quick aside, it occurs to me that a mini series featuring the Black Panther (Shuri) and the White Tiger (Angela Del Toro) fighting side-by-side and written as a collab by Tamora Price/Timothy Liebe and Maberry might be very interesting and could sell reasonably well; no Hellcat and Black Cat this time around - no kitties, just the big cats this time around. I'd add it to my collection.

I agree, but I'm don't think a ongoing with just them would do to tell in this current comic market.. It probably be best to make it a team book add 1 or 2 more popluar characters that would fit that setting..

You're right. Limited series runs would likely be better for Cloak and Dagger and - as I often said while posting at "the other place" - the duo should make a stop over in Wakanda --- when things get better that is. Storm has sort of a "big sister" effect on younger mutants, male and female. Storm used to call Colossus "Little Brother". Kitty Pryde attached herself to Storm in a sisterly way and Rogue seemed to develop some sort of kinship with Ororo as well. I think Dagger - who seems to crave a significant friendship outside the partnership she has with Cloak - would benefit from a friendship with Queen Ororo. What really intrigues me about a Cloak/Dagger/Wakanda connection is a possible interaction between Cloak and Zawavari.

Zawavari is possibly the only human being who could spend a significant period of time inside Cloak's pocket dimension without losing his mind. Here's what Zawavari had to say to Aneka when she compared Zawavari's magic to "unholy darkness": "Darkness? What do you know of darkness? I've walked through nightmare lands that would tear the sanity from you. I've squatted in caves in the bowels of the earth to palaver with eyeless toad-things. I've sacrificed my own blood so that I could listen to the faintest whispers of the elder gods."

Zawavari looks to me as if he could be of great help to Cloak in helping him gain greater understanding and control over the predator who lurks in that pocket dimension.

Very true.. I wonder that how Mercedes & Daniel got that baby they now have one the way.. (Also he proposed & she accepted.. I think he did before she told him that she was pregnant)..

Iron Fist and Misty Knight following in the footsteps of Luke Cage and Jessica Jones; sex, baby, marriage proposal, marriage, in that order. Are comicbooks for kids anymore? Of course not  :)

Also Remy & Ororo kissing as very baly written moment that didn't make sense to & glad it still being ignored like alot of other stuff from x-treme x-men...

It appears to me that during that period, Storm was written as if she had a wild streak and something about her that seemed to suggest she had written on her forehead, "If you're a male - red, white, blue, green, fuzzy, terran or extraterrestrial - or if you're a female who likes to walk on the wild side (tentacles not a problem), I'm easy and available." The best thing that happened to Ororo was her becoming the co-star of the Black Panther comicbook.

Very true, I Think the closer they got was here :

 :) They just can't seem to bring themselves to allow these two characters' lips to make physical contact, can they?  ;)

Also I they finally let Patriot & Kate Bishop kiss, but I'm petty sure she & Speed kissed 1sted..

Oh, you know they likely had Kate kiss Speed first. Speed had to get his kiss before Kate was "tainted". I don't follow the Avengers at all. I came by this knowledge through lurking at the Avenger's forum at "that other place". I saw the "kiss" between Patriot and Kate. Now, when a white superhero kisses a femme fatale, the female's response is usually a swoon which is often by a scene where the white superhero and the female are engaging in pillowtalk following a vigorous session of superhero sexual activity. Now look what Kate did to Patriot after he kissed her  :D "Writer's choice; reader's preference".

Also Cage & Jewel still kiss sometimes & she being drawn less homely looking lately imo..  ;D Also he going to be leading/running the Thunderbolts & been hinted to leading a Avengers team..

They're easing up on Jessica are they? Artists usually draw Mrs. Cage as if someone knocked her upside the head with a sledgehammer. They're spreading Luke all over the place it looks like. Who does Luke think he is, Deadpool? Wolverine?  

There have been like 2 or 3 Darkstars created recently some I wouldn't be shocked if one of the was his sister or cousin or aunt or etc

I think some writers are trying to write Cloak as if he is Marvel's version of the Spectre. If I've got this right, Jim Corrigan and subsequent Spectres are a vessel for a demonic being who is striving to become a holy being. This being inhabits the green cloak worn by the Spectres and facilitates their miraculous feats of vengeance. Cloak is different from the Spectre. Tyrone had become shadow before he even discovered the material which would become his cloak of darkness. He used that discarded material cover himself and conceal the shadowman he had become. Tyrone is as much his power as Tandy is hers. However, some writers have tried to make the cloak of darkness the show, not Tyrone. They seemed to retcon The Mutant Misadventures Of Cloak And Dagger out of continuity. I hope they retconned that goofy old man who once wore Cloak's cape as an "opera cape" when he was "the portal", out of existence. If anyone should be able to help Cloak better understand the Dark Dimension, especially the pocket dimension, it should be Zawavari of Wakanda.

Yeah, they are still consider mutants & both have been popping up alot lately.. Nekra has a daughter now (the father is Grim Reaper) name  Death Reaper.

So Nekra is still living and she managed to have a child by the racist Grim Reaper? Marvel Comics will make a hook up between a black female character (or character of color) and any kind of white male character that comes to mind. It doesn't matter if the male character is a blue bigfoot, has the appearance of a dead baby bird a hungry cat bother to eat, is a white racist, or happens to be some guy she met only minutes earlier. Cloak and Dagger have been a team for nearly 30 years. Cloak has barely gotten a sniff from Dagger what Hank (blue bigfoot) McCoy got from Celia Reyes, what Danny Rand got from Misty Knight, what the racist Grim Reaper apparently got from Nekra, the queen of hate who apparently forgot to hate when it came to getting it on with a white racist. A Russian can nail a Wakandan female - a native of a land notorious for their xenophobic beliefs - impregnate her with a baby she later rejects as an outworlder, but Patriot kisses Kate Bishop and almost gets himself pushed out of the Avengers comicbook. "Writer's choice; fan's preference"  ;)

Also every time I see Mandrill & Nekra I can't help but thinking  it crazy there concept of actually got published.. Ok black child come out white & with anger/rage  power (ok not horrible but not great) & white boesn't come black, but come out looking like a monkey & has rape powers (Really Marvel Really??)

I'm not surprised. Marvel also published the story about Ms Marvel's rape by Immortus' son, Marcus and most disgusting to me, the rape of T'Challa's mother, Ramonda, by white racist, supremacist Anton Pretorious. Maybe that sort of thing will stop now that Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck are in charge.

Thats good question about the toilet lol :D.. , but do they need to eat? I wonder can they just live off there dark & light energies. And I remember read that idea of yours on cbr..  

In their earliest adventures, Tandy needed to eat as her powers left her essentially, a normal human being. Tyrone on the other hand, had been nearly consumed by the Dark Dimension and had become something other than human. Tyrone didn't need to eat or sleep. These days, with Tyrone being able to assume human form and live a normal human existence, I'm sure they both have to eat and eventually, do the #1 and #2  :D

Yes, most of the teams do.

It's good to see that although T'Challa is an Avenger no longer, his genius is still impacting on the team.

I agree, I would kind of like to see T'Challa or atleast some Wakanda warriors fight , but I REALLY WORRIED how they would be written.

I see your point here. X-writers and X-geeks/ that was unkind of me, wasn't it?  ;)  X-fans, I'll call them X-fans...seem to harbor a visceral hostility toward the Black Panther and indeed, black mutants not named Storm. Look what's happened to Bishop. By excluding T'Challa from mutantkind's battle for survival, the X-writer can make it appear and the X-fan may more readily ass-ume that the Black Panther doesn't love Storm. If some X-writer did happen to include T'Challa in this battle, chances are excellent that T'Challa would be written poorly and X-fans would absolutely resent T'Challa's involvement. The Panther would be damned if he did, damned if he didn't.

Hey Anole isn't that bad  :D

It could be that I am being too harsh on Anole based on his appearance and what little I know of the character. When I size Anole up against Synch and Nightcrawler, Anole doesn't just come off wanting; he comes off begging. Anole literally means lizard; his powers are based on the chameleon. Features and abilities of his mutation include: reptilian skin and a spiked "cap" on his head. Anole has the ability to change color (as does Darwin), has the ability to regenerate lost limbs (very similar to Wolverine and X-23, I'd suspect); those regenerated limbs are stronger than the previous limb, but less physically attractive. Anole has wallcrawling abilities (as did Nightcrawler) Anole has the ability to camoflague himself; Nightcrawler was able to blend into shadows and become near invisible under ideal conditions. Like the chameleon from which Anole derives his name and powers, he has a prehensile, sticky tongue. What possible superhero-related endeavor would having a prehensile, sticky tongue be an advantage? I think we all remember or have some idea of what Synch and Nightcrawler could do and how cool they were in doing it. It's very possible that Anole isn't as bad a character as I initially believed him to be, but Anole is no Nightcrawler either. By the way, has Synch been resurrected recently?

Also they killed Kurt because he's a popluar character/with a some what big fan base, also  for shock valuebecause maybe some of head ppl. the x-office thought mean somthing, but I'd be shocked if he not back 1 or 2 years..

I'm sure you're right. Superman "died", but wait!.... Batman "died", but wait!.... Captain America "died", but wait!.... These dynamic, dramatic "deaths" have become so gimmicky these days, the event has lots any punch. When John Byrne killed off Vindicator of Alpha Flight, I couldn't believe it. I thought he was nuts and I hated the move. When Jim MacDonald Hudson was inevitably resurrected, he wasn't the same character. These "deaths" are ruinous to solid characters and to the titles they are appear in.

....Synch was  kind of recently brought in Necrosha.. They story was left open so he could have survived.. It really up to the next writer to decided if he and alot of other formerly dead mutants did or not. (they were brought back as transmode virus & were being controlled by the main villain of the story Selene.) 

Hey! This answers my earlier question. Great news, and if indeed Synch has returned, I would actually buy the X-book in which his resurrection is official and confirmed. I'm unsure of Prodigy's status, but I think with Synch's status unclear at the moment and Tyrone Johnson being classified as non-mutant, there are no U.S. black male mutants represented in Marvel's X-franchise. Synch needs to return.

I agree & my picks for her new id are Caracal or Serval(both African cats)

I like those ideas! Both choices make more sense than did Kasper Cole's "White Tiger" or even Lee/Kirby's original notion of naming T'Challa the "Coal Tiger" before settling on Black Panther. I once had a lengthy exchange with Yoda (or Loren) about this White Tiger business. The tiger is a EuroAsiatic cat usually found in India, China, and Siberia these days. I kept repeating this over and over: "There are no tigers in Africa. There aren't any African wolves either unless you're talking the Denali wolf found in Ethiopia, and that animal more closely resembles a coyote than a European or North American wolf." I was pleased to see that in Black Panther: Flags Of Our Fathers, the English "Howler" agreed with me.

Sinjection1 you're a master scribe and researcher. Your archives must run deep through the hidden passages of the techno jungle. I am humbled by your comments and shall strive to continue to contribute to this forum in a manner worthy of yours and all the other great posters respect here at the HEF.

"master scribe"? Well, I liked to do a little sketching in my day but truth be told, came to content myself with being at best, a mediocre scribbler. But "master scribe"! To receive such a compliment from you, Ture - one who truly qualifies as such - is high praise indeed. Thank you. It was clear to me from the reading of your first post that your brilliant, observant, intelligent contributions come as naturally and as effortlessly to you as a soaring, spectacular slam dunk comes to Kobe or LeBron. "Ain't no step for a stepper." That's what comes to my mind whenever I read the well-presented wisdom in comments having the name Jenn, Supreme Illuminati, or Turi following the "Posted by:" Please keep enlightening us with your entertaining and thought-provoking contributions.

What new trick has Doom employed? None! But Tchalla needs an upgrade?

Doom came closer to killing T'Challa than any of his foes that come to mind. I can't remember any attack by Killmonger himself that literally, put the Black Panther at death's wide open door and having to fight off a legion of demons (or whatever they were) to keep from being pulled through to the other side. If not for the love and sacrifice of his drop-dead gorgeous wife Queen Ororo and the magicks of Zawavari, T'Challa might not have survived and happily, his drop-dead gorgeous wife didn't have to literally drop dead in order to rescue him...and DAMN IT ALL, I HATE to have to admit that T'Challa needed rescue.

To the credit of this great Warrior King, T'Challa seemed quickly to have recovered from the worst of his injuries; however, the grueling process of this recovery had to have been taxing even for him. Doom is a devious, despicable hunk of steaming, stinking feces. Doom has no honor no matter what his fans or apologists claim to the contrary. His cowardly sneak attack on the Black Panther is proof of that. Notice that even outnumbered and outgunned, two of the beautiful and deadly Dora Milaje foiled his assassination attempt against T'Challa; one of them actually put Doom's ass on the ground.

Ture, you and I know that at his fighting best, T'Challa wouldn't need any upgrades to defeat Doom. T'Challa wouldn't need the assistance of his lovely wife, Ororo to defeat Doom. The hysterical horde which constitutes a significant number of the larger comicbook-reading demographic would be quick and vociferous in their objections, but substitute Captain America for T'Challa and remarkably, their tune would change. Those who wouldn't give a plug nickel for T'Challa's chances against Doom would be first to say that Cap could conceivably and believably defeat Doom in personal combat. But again, this is all a matter of "writer's choice" and "fanboy/fangal preference". The writers would choose to write a Doom defeat of T'Challa or a Captain America defeat of Doom based upon the fanboy/fangal preference.

In this case, I accept T'Challa's added abilities. I believe his physical strength has been enhanced and he now has the ability to resist energy/magic-based attacks. Many fanboys/gals defecated bricks when Hudlin dared to write the outcome of the Black Panther's WWII tussle with Captain America as big ol' W for the Black Panther. Oh, they claimed their only objection to the outcome was that it wasn't canon, but that was just so much cirumlocution. They were taking a roundabout course, using evasive tactics to say what they really wanted to say. When McDuffie had T'Challa sap Norrin Radd's Power Cosmic, do some cool maneuvering using space debris and the Surfer's own board to gain an advantage and then finally, lock an arm bar on the Surfer, that hysterical horde went ballistic with some verging on the psychotic. McDuffie had violated "writers choice; fanboy/gal preference" and the horde took umbrage.

Try a new approach. S'yan (a former BP) brought in hands behind his head, held at bay by one guard and huggin the queen mother like a beeyotch, only to take a bullet. Doesn't go down in glorious battle. He just goes down. Insulting!

SAY ON, Ture!

Whatever floats your boat.

 :D  I suppose all I need now are two oars and a lake to row my boat in  :D

Too much work. Rent a speedboat instead. Impress the babes.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Naw, I think I'll stick with the rowing. The exercise would do wonders for my physique, I should think. Perfect pecs, delectable lats, bulging biceps and triumphant triceps...I think a babe or two might be impressed by that, unless I overdid it of course and started to resemble a bad Rob Liefeld sketch.

I think what is disturbing the fans here is the fact that Mayberry has given such a good showing to Doom that its hard to imagine at this point that any victory by Storm and the Panthers is possible without more humiliation or loss for the alleged heroes (Storm and the Panthers win but one of them dies, Storm and the Panthers win but one of them is maimed, Storm and the Panthers win but Wakanda gets blown up).

We aren't seeing the unqualified victories we are used to seeing heroes have.

On the other hand the Desturi have been routed and T'Challa is stronger than ever. 

Aside from a few pockets of resistance here and there, the Desturi is done for. Storm should be allowed to execute any Desturi members found guilty of grievous, irredeemable crimes against Wakanda by electrocution after Doom is defeated and the business of restoring Wakanda to normal begins.

No worries about T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, Aneka, and the rest of the heroic forces emerging from this battle unscathed - the beautiful Shuri had better not have so much as a bruise on her knee when this is all over. The tide has turned. The counter-offensive has been launched in earnest and Doom's time is running out.

Kip is right. In the final analysis, Wakanda would not have been able to defeat Doom without help from Namor, the FF, Wolverine, Colossus, and the great Nightcrawler. However, the other side of that coin is this. Doom would not have conquered Wakanda if not for the assistance of Wakandan traitors.

Yeah she did look like Rihanna lol... Also I think they will have them kiss at some point, I'm not really sure why they haven't yet.. but I'M indifferent if they do our not..

Tia and "friends" would be interesting as recurring threats to Cloak and Dagger. This duo has fought every type of foe from street thugs, pimps, drug pushers/dealers/cartels, to Dr. Doom, extraterrestrials, the Beyonder, and Mephisto. Both characters have yet to be developed to their fullest potential and in my view, have proven their chops in spite of this limitation. Luke Cage started out as a Hero for Hire. He was in it for the money and took on whatever/whomever he was being paid to confront, which was not necessarily pimps, chickenhawks (lying in wait for young, hapless runaways), drug pushers/cartels, and crime families. These are criminal types and stories highly relevant and needing to be skillfully told. Cloak and Dagger are perfectly designed for this type of action.

You know...writers have never had a problem writing Logan deep-kissing Ororo, Gambit kissing Ororo, Forge in intimate situations with Ororo, Danny Rand kissing Misty Knight and in fact, I remember seeing scans of the bedroom aftermath of one of Danny's and Misty's lovemaking sessions. Danny was lying in the bed looking like the cat who ate the canary; Misty was up and out of frame getting showered and dressed or something. I believe there was some sort of discussion about "pancakes" or something and Misty did not seem to be amused. The bedroom scene looked as if a superhero battle had taken place. IIRC, there was a broken lamp and holes in the wall which I suspect were put there by Misty while in the throes of erotic ecstasy.

When it comes to Bishop and Sage moving beyond having dinner together to "doing-the-do", never happened. Synch was kissed by Monet once and then he was blown to bits. Later, Jaime Maddrox would "hit a homerun" with Monet. Celia Reyes was written as falling head-over-heels in love with Hank McCoy who was essentially a "manimal" at that time. A story was written showing Celia smiling contentedly beside her blue bigfoot husband and their half-bigfoot children. Angel Salvadore kissed Barnell Bohusk on a dare, but eventually developed genuine feelings for him which lead to her being impregnated by him during underaged sex while she was intoxicated. Bohusk looked like a dead baby bird one might see lying on a sidewalk. But to this date, writers refuse to write Tandy and Tyrone sharing a kiss. They had no problem writing Tyrone chasing Tandy around like a lovesick puppy while she flirted openly with Spider-man, Bill Clayton, and any other male taken with her blonde-haired, blue-eyed feminine charms. "Writer's choice; reader's preference".

I don't care if the issue of romance between Cloak and Dagger ever comes up again. I do know that portraying him as chasing Dagger's skirt and her not giving him the time of day, portraying Dagger as an "angel of light" while Cloak was the "demon of darkness" was demeaning to the character of Cloak and diminished him as a character. I would be happy to see the two acting as they were created to. They are not like Spider-Man and Daredevil. They are costumed, yes; however, not as garishly outfitted as Spider-Man and Daredevil. A reader could actually believe Cloak and Dagger would scare most street thug-types out of their wits before they even felt the sting of their powers. Factor in the way they can literally appear out of shadow to launch their sudden and devastating attacks and there is no reason to believe street thugs would have a greater fear of Cloak and Dagger than they would of Spider-Man and Daredevil. Some writer simply needs to fully develop these characters and use them correctly. There's no reason why they shouldn't be a successful ongoing.

What frustrates me is the following:

- Why is it Cloak is usually intangible until he is somehow "disabled" during a battle? Whenever something happens to Cloak during an attack (having his cape ripped from him by a super-powered little girl mutant, for instance) causes Cloak to revert back to Tyrone as if his being Tyrone is a bad thing. Cloak should be able to become Tyrone at will and vice versa.

I'm not really sure. I think some writers.. write as the Cloak on Ty is the source of his powers & not he him self is the source of the powers (which kind goes back are they mutants or they mutates thing)

You've nailed it. Some writers have tried to make the cape the power. Not so. Tyrone is the power; his body is the actual portal to the Dark Dimension. The cloak he wears is simply a tool he can use to focus his power in a fixed area, although his darkness is capable of extending far beyond the confines of his cape. I believe Claremont understood this perfectly. In a New Mutants story, Sunspot and Wolfsbane somehow acquired the powers of Cloak and Dagger. However, as Claremont wrote it, Tyrone's power (the darkness) never seemed to fully take leave of Tyrone. It gathered itself to him and tried to coalesce around him. Cloak's darkness should not be looked upon as evil. The Russian mutant Darkstar - Nezhno's cousin...half-sister maybe?  :D... derives her powers from the Dark Dimension as well; she's not portrayed as being evil or demonic.

- Cloak and Dagger SHOULD be mutants. The story written by Ed Hannigan is the best explanation for why Tyrone and Tandy have their powers. To simply say their powers are a result of the experimental drug's interaction with something in their DNA is weak and leaves too many holes. Tyrone and Tandy were much like the mutants Mandrill and Nekra whose powers didn't manifest until they came into close proximity to one another. This is what happened with Ty and Tandy in Hannigan's version.

According to Hannigan, Ty and Tandy were latent mutants whose powers might never have manifested if the two had never encountered each other. They did encounter each other however and when they were threatened at the docks by the men who who would take them to Ellis Island, their mutant powers should have manifested then and there. The demon D'Spayre suppressed that manifestation, choosing instead to make the teens believe their powers were the result of the experimental drug. Only when this happened, did D'Spayre allow their powers to manifest, but even then he played a cruel trick on them. Tandy was supposed to have the powers of darkness, while Tyrone was supposed to have the powers of light.

Ed Hannigan's story makes infinitely more sense than does any other explanation given for Cloak and Dagger's powers.

That changes from writer to it changed atleast 3-5 times sense they were taken out of limbo last year.. Some prefer they are mutants & some want they to be mutates.. If there next app. is written by a writer who like them better as mutants they be latent mutants ..

IMO the best thing to do is make them both (that why is stop changing every time they re-app.) & say something to the effect of that they have latent x-genes (which would make them latent mutants).. & when D'Spayre infused portions of his soul in they by them being force to take the drug D-Lite (he was the real creator of the drug).. actived there latent/inactive x-gene which would make they both since x-gene is now activated but now amplified & change by D'Spayre power..

The further put it to rest then show what there latent mutants would look like activated in another way like by a machine or something.. You then show Cloak being able to teleport by bending the light around his body and Dagger being able to generate & firer dark energy daggers for her hands..

Since Doctor Nemesis is petty smart you get character that are much smart then him in general & in those fields.. So show T'Challa,  Reed R. (both MUCH smarter than him in general), Prof.X (much smarter than him when it come to mutant dna), Doctor Voodoo & Doctor Strange (both MUCH smarter than him when it come to magic & demons powers.. like D'Spayre.)

That imo should be enuff canon wise to prove that both mutants & mutates..

Yep, I think making them both is the way to go. I think there is a case to be made for Mandrill and Nekra being both as well. Mandrill's white father and Nekra's black mother were both exposed to radiation (or something), that altered something in their DNA. Mandrill's father wasn't a mutant, neither was Nekra's mother, but as a result of their exposure to that radiation, their children were born with anomalies which marked them as mutants.

So to answer your question 4Sake, I was pleased overall with the one-shot and I hope Marvel gives Cloak and Dagger another limited series in the near future.

Me to &  this story felt like it was being of a mini or ongoing & not a 1 shot because it just ended when Cloak & Dagger looking like they were about to go at it lol & left those other plots open like where Tia come from, who were the ppl that kidnap Cloak & brainwashed Tia, Dagger possibly continuing a friendship with Storm..  

Good ideas. Cloak and Dagger should develop a friendship with Storm and the Black Panther. I once suggested that T'Challa could be a supporter of the duo, founding an inner city community center where Tyrone and Tandy might actually work as activity coordinators. They could move out of that broken-down church...does that church even have a working toilet? I hope so...and into a modest apartment. I don't think such a move would cramp their style as vigilantes of the night.

I think the monotheistic Wakandans are ahead of the game. Polytheistic peoples have to satisfy the whims of multiple gods, appeal to one god and risk angering another. Worshipping one god is easier than trying to appease 20 gods, wouldn't you say? Doom just happened to catch the Panther God while she was having a "Maberry moment". How else to explain her bizarre decision to turn over Wakanda's refined vibranium to a murdering meglomaniac?

Whatever floats your boat.

 :D  I suppose all I need now are two oars and a lake to row my boat in  :D

<<Bast is either very wise and is working out her own plan in very mysterious ways or she is an idiot>>

Ah, there is a third option--Bast isn't real.  GRIN.

The third option is the BEST Bast option, yet. Very good.

Since JM invented the test, and he invented the means to pass the test and determined that Doom mets the criteria the writer sets, then one could conclude the problem is the writer didn't word the test/arguments clear enough for everyone. 

Maberry is writing an entertaining story; not gripping, but entertaining. Doom's dominance up to now has been annoying but that is what makes for compelling drama, the badguy getting the best of the goodguy and the waiting for the tide to turn. Judging by this criteria, it appears Maberry is getting the job done.

Because T'Challa make the best planes/jets/aircrafts & etc (weather its speed, stealth or what have you)  in the Marvel U a fact that rarely mention.  :-[  Which is badly written statments like this make no sense when T'Challa has aircrafts that can get ppl half and world in about 20 mins (& some under 20mins) Plus T'Challa has way better tech than on Utopia.

So very true. I haven't read an Avengers comic since 2008. Do the Avengers still use the Quinjet as their primary means of transportation? Now that you mention it, I can easily see how stealth aircraft could land on Utopia and how highly-skilled warriors could stealthily deploy without being detected. The fact that a Wakandan force of such size could do so on Utopia, a island occupied by highly-skilled mutant warriors who because of their present dire circumstances must be on high alert 24/7, says something about the skill of Wakandan technology and warrior technique.

For how long did the Desturi exist within Wakanda as a potential threat before Wakandan Intelligence - once said to be superior to the CIA and the Mossad - encountered "rumors" of its existence? According to T'Challa, Wakandan Intelligence had been "tracking rumors" of the Desturi for just over one year...just over one year? This is Wakandan Intelligence who - for those of us who've already read Flags Of Our Fathers #1 - have learned what they are capable of in terms of intelligence gathering sophistication. This is Wakanda who had plans in place for combatting an invasion by Galactus. How did the Desturi - a domestic threat - go undetected by Wakandan Intelligence until it was too late to stop them?

Once Wakandan Intelligence discovered the existence of the Desturi, it lacked the ability to identify key members of the group even while knowing those members had infiltrated the government, the military, the press..."everywhere"? A question vexing to me in particular; T'Challa had not a clue Doom was orchstrating this entire attack until his covert methods became very overt in an attack by Doom on T'Challa which nearly cost the Black Panther his life? Just what in hell is going on here?

Think we are supposed go with that the heroes leaned of the Desturi around or right before Secret Invasion & got busy with the with the other attacks on the nation& on the world (WWH, Death of Steve R, FF storyline, Shadow King, Skrulls, Morlun & etc.) before they could find. out who the leaders of the group were.. Then got a little more busy with T'Challa dieing for a min.. Or it could been before that like right after Civil War because the plot of who blow up the the NY Wakanda embassy hasn't been followed up so it come have them who planted the bombs...

That makes sense. I remember when Blade joined MI:13, Captain Britain asked him why he chose to return to the U.K. instead of staying in the U.S. to fight the Skrulls. Blade told Cap Britain that Skrulls were "like the weather"...they'll pass. Blade was more interested in fighting vampires than in fighting the Skrulls. So Doom very well could have used the Skrull invasion as cover for his covert plans against Wakanda. I could see Doom dismissing the Secret Invasion, being confident Earth's heroes would ultimately successfully repel and defeat the Skrulls. During the chaotic climate at that time, Doom and his Wakandan collaborators could have solidified their plans and set them in motion while loyal Wakandans were fighting Skrull Commander K'vvvr, Son of K'and'rr and his 7th Fleet.  By the way, I loved the art in that arc. Jefte Palo's style looks to be a mixture of Mike Mignola and a dash of Bruce Timm. That Civil War angle is interesting. Here I was thinking Iron Man's forces were responsible for the destruction of the Wakandan Embassy.

Non of the currently x-writes are really big Storm fans (some of them like her ok. but just not big fans so if don't feel like writing her or feel they can't find her voice then they don't write her), The same thing as happen lot of x-men most well known characters..(Kurt- who was just killed, Peter- who mostly says ''da'' these days, Gambit, Jubilee.. the list goes on.) Who only show when they have to & are mostly badly written in Uncanny X-Men.. Yost write her well & writes T'Challa well, but his Wakanda suck, but he going to leave X-books for a while to focus on the new Avengers cartoon(which T'Challa will be a main cast member in..)..

It would be great if some X-writer working the story of the mutant's life and death struggle against those determined to exterminate them would allow T'Challa to fight beside Ororo when she returns to help the X-Men. Nothing like that will happen of course. If some X-writers are lukewarm to writing Storm they are probably frigid to the idea of writing T'Challa. That attitude by those writers - if indeed it exists - perpetuates hostility against the Black Panther and the idea that he only cares about himself and Wakanda in that order, and cares very little for his wife, Storm. It would probably annoy many an X-fan if T'Challa insisted on fighting at his wife's side in her battle for the survival of her species and herself. Of course T'Challa will be a no-show. X-fans will take that opportunity to rail about how he doesn't love Storm and that their MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY should end. Too bad. Nightcrawler was one of the best characters ever created. That he could be killed off only intensifies my disdain for and disinterest in anything X-Men related. How can they kill off characters like Synch, Phoenix, Nightcrawler...kill Colossus, bring him back perhaps to kill him again at some point in the can they kill off great characters like the aforementioned and hang on to stupid characters like Anole? I don't understand. 

Wolverine & Storm are close freinds, but not as close freinds & she has closer freinds than him. alot ppl. make them out to be.. IMO it like some fans try to make there friendship closer than it really is.. Mostly because those horrible X-movie & because some fans want they to get it on.. When Logan & Storm has never been hinted to be dating or sleeping together in any 616 X-Men book or Wolverine book I ever read.. In fact it been the opposite he said in BP that they never had sex, but wanted to & had felling for her,  he says in Wolverine he feeling for her & in Wolverine Weapon X we he talking to all his past loves & imporant women in his life they (He & Storm) talk about Yukio wanting bang him  & Yokio & his sex life/relationship..  But you still see ppl swear up & down they got it on..

I'm happy to see that "RoLo" nonsense seems to have run its course. Those "RoLo" people got their satisfaction in Marvel's Ultimate line. From what little I know of that situation, Ororo chased after Wolverine like she was in heat and the writing made it known that Wolverine could have had Ororo anytime, anyway he wanted her. The thing is, he didn't want Ororo at all. He had the hots for Jean Grey. It seems to me that many X-fans are only interested in seeing Storm disgraced and misused....or a homosexual. I'm sure or at least I would hope, that had they been present when T'Challa asked Cyclops for help against the Desturi, both Jean Grey and Kitty Pryde would have been on their way to Wakanda before Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Wolverine could blink one time. Jean and Ororo are sisters.

No Taku is alvie & he still living in & running the Techno-Jungle.. He was last in Fantastic Four #546 I think..  I was also, but I see Shuri take over his role in a more proactive way once T'Challa become BP again..
I'd say is one of his advisors now Zawavari. Also if Syan is really dead & Zuri is dead I guess the Panther God could maybe bring them back to lofe some how sense she/he is a god..

Very good to see Taku is still alive and well and living in Wakanda. It would be fantastic if Shuri and T'Challa developed a close loving, trusting and protective relationship. I would hate it if writers used Claremont's
New Exiles
story as a blueprint of how T'Challa's and Shuri's relationship should proceed. Shuri makes a beautiful...and I do mean BEAUTIFUL Black Panther. If circumstances are such that she does relinquish the mantle and return it to T'Challa, she should remain an active adventurer, developing a unique identity of her own. IMO, Shuri is a great character. Zawavari is a fun and entertaining character. Now that T'Challa has embraced the benefits of mysticism, Zawavari would be positioned to advise him in the future.

But hatred was not his motive, nor did it taint his motive--all he did, he did because he honestly believed his course was the only course for mankind to survive.  That was the purity test.  He wasn't trying to take the metal to inflict vengence or hatred on others.  He took it, because he believed he was right.  Yes, he may despise Richard and T, but he didn't act on that hatred in this matter, and this matter (getting the metal) was the only thing being tested.. 

Ahhhhh, the vagaries of the comicbook story/comicbook writer....

Strong points and looking at what transpired between Bast and Doom in strict terms of black and white, it would appear that in that moment, Doom was able to effectively mask his true nature (lying, murdering meglomaniac) sufficient to meet Bast's criteria. Knowing Doom to be a murdering "monster", Bast was convinced that Doom's motive for taking the vibranium were "pure" on the strength of his word buttressed by his unwavering belief in his own megalomania. Bast rejected the sane presentation of "destiny" offered by Black Panther candidate Shuri, but accepted a very similar presentation given by Doom, a murderer suffering from advanced mental illness. Bast is either very wise and is working out her own plan in very mysterious ways or she is an idiot.

I tend to go with the following observation:

Perhaps she didn't devour Doom for the same reason she didn't devour Shuri.. As a continuation of the test.

And I believe it's a contnuation of a test that Doom has to fail. Doom says he "loves" the world and that is why he wants to rule it with an iron glove. Doom might love his mother, but that's about it. It's telling how so many denizens of "the bizarro world of comicbook fans" are actually rooting for Doom to win. I think this speaks volumes to why the Black Panther has never been a comicbook "A-lister". Many consumers who comprise the greater comicbook-reading demographic seem to identify more closely to Dr. Doom than they do the Black Panther.

At any rate, I hope Doom's ultimate defeat in this saga doesn't mirror what happened in Doctor Voodoo, ending with Jericho simply punching Doom in the nose and saying: "Okay, show's over. You lost. Go home." whereupon Doom gets to his feet and opens a magical wormhole to transport himself away but not before giving Doom the stereotypical villian's last retort: "We will meet again, Drumm...Soon."

What?  ??? That's it?!

No. Doom needs to lose a limb or an eye for what he's done to T'Challa, Ororo, Shuri, Ramonda, and Wakanda. Marvel fans need to get used to the idea of Doom having a prosthetic arm or leg or at least having one of his missing eyes shielded by a black visor over that particular eye slot.

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