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Messages - sinjection

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961
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 11:09:55 pm »
 One thing I like about the Panther is it being fresh.  I don't know what he's done, who he's met etc, and I'm finding out issue by issue.

And like the overwhelming majority of the participants of this forum, I'm sure that you're enjoying the ride.

Hudlin's Panther is a rollercoaster of thrilling excitement.

Priest's Panther was a funeral dirge.

Other versions of the Panther written by others range from hilarious to insulting.

Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther.

962
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 11:06:17 pm »
As it reads in my signature: Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther.

Everytime I read that sentence, I die a little inside.  :(

Hudlins Panther is nowhere near as regal or intellegent as Priests BP. And those two characteristics are what should best define BP.

 :D

You "die a little inside".... over a comic book?  It ain't about life and death man. Don't stress yourself  :)

The only reason why Hudliin's Panther would be nowhere near as regal and intelligent as Priest's is because Priest's Panther could never ascend to the level where Hudlin's Panther has been and there is no way Priest could ever have managed to take the Panther to the heights Hudlin will take this Panther and his lovely bride, Ororo.

What defined Priest's Panther?

Everett K. Ross.

What defines Hudlin's Panther?

Power, Dignity, Excellence, Magnificence, Confidence and an unfaltering Command over any situation he might face.

963
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:55:52 pm »

Today, white adolescents account for the lion's share of the consumers of Rap music. As most of us participating in this forum is aware, Rap music went through a period when it was decidedly Afro-Centric. It's goal was directed at instilling pride in and imparting an historical/cultural foundation to black people and black youth, particularly the urban black youth. While there has always been a white presence in Rap music - and in every genre of black music for that matter - Rap seemed determined not to go the way of Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll. The rappers were not about to go quietly into the dark night of cultural appropriation by the dominant white society.

Eventually however, white rappers were able to make enroads into the genre. Haltingly at first with acts like the Beastie Boys, House of Pain and Vanilla Ice, but with the advent of Third Base and finally eminem, the white rapper gained a measure of legitimacy. White youth finally had faces in the Rap game that were white like theirs and who they could relate to. Soon, it was eminem who was credited for bringing white fans into Rap music. Was it Chuck Berry...no it might have been Fats Domino who said he didn't really mind Elvis Presley being crowned "king of Rock and Roll" because the presence of Elvis meant that more consumers might notice his music. The same phenomena has manifested in Blues and Jazz music. White performers and fans of those genres are credited with keeping it alive.

Well, let me say:  I had no part in the Whitification ( ;) ) of the Rap industry.  Rap isn't my cup of tea.  No offense meant to those who do like it, but I share a similar opinion that Bruce Willis' character voiced in The Last Boy Scout.

Bad Guy: "Just once, I want to hear you scream.  In pain."

Bruce Willis: "Play some rap music."

I don't have a problem with white rappers any more than I have a problem with Charley Pride, a black country singer.  (I actually enjoy several of the gentleman's songs, but then country is more to my liking than rap.)


Country music....

Bad Guy: "Just once, I want to hear you scream. In pain."

sinjection: "Play some country music."

 :D

964
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:49:08 pm »

You guess we agree?

No. I don't think so HPP  :)

To date, Reginald Hudlin has written the best Black Panther these eyes have ever beheld.

So you and I will simply be in agreement to be in disagreement  ;)

Yup, guess you're right. We agree Hudlin should've done a more absolute reboot-if he insisted on a reboot. That way there is no confusion.

As for Hudlin writing the best BP, now you're just being silly. Mc Gregor > Hudlin. Priest > Hudlin. Hudlin's Panther=Simplistic, poor dialogue, forced, and devoid of any *clear* history. But it does have some great art.

*Edited in*

Although they can often be socially relevant, comics are for entertainment first and foremost.

Comics are fun. Comics are a diversion. Comics are often silly. As sinjection posting to a forum discussing a comic book, I don't mind engaging in a bit of silliness on occassion.

However, with respect to my opinion that Reginald Hudlin has written and is currently writing the best Black Panther I have ever seen, I am entirely serious. Hudlin has achieved in 18 issues, something that no other writer - McGregor and Priest (don't make me laugh...or cry  :)), was able to do. Reginald Hudlin has achieved absolute mastery over T'Challa the Black Panther, captured the true essence of the character Ororo and stands poised to elevate Wakanda to a level above that of Namor's undersea kingdom of Atlantis, Doom's Latveria and Black Bolt's Attilan.

Hudlin is the undisputed master chronicler of T'Challa, The Black Panther.

As it reads in my signature: Reginald Hudlin's Black Panther IS THE Black Panther.

965
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:33:15 pm »
dayam sinjection.
You my dude!
What you just wrote... summed it all up.
i have nothin' else to say.

i got you back if ever need it homey.
:D
good stuff...really good stuff.


Hey, now how could I have missed this?

Thank you brother. You've made my day  :)

966
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:29:33 pm »
So I guess we agree...kinda.

You guess we agree?

No. I don't think so HPP  :)

To date, Reginald Hudlin has written the best Black Panther these eyes have ever beheld.

So you and I will simply be in agreement to be in disagreement  ;)

967
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:12:32 pm »
Erased?  Did they recall all the old issues and destroy every bit of evidence of them?  Don't be so over dramatic, the fans still have the older issues and being a longtime comic reader, there is no comic that I've ever followed from X-Men to Spider-Man to Robin etc that hasn't ever went in a direction I didn't approve of.  It happens, and there's no need to make a federal case out of it.

Erased. Reboots are like a reset button they supersede the events that came before them. And sloppy  reboots are worse as they dont even give the reader the benifit of clear history. As for the federal case, no. Just...no. I'm simply expressing my opinion in the proper venue. Unless this forum is only for people pleased with every thing about this book.

Once again you're putting too much stock on continuity, when I started reading Who is the Black Panther?   I neither knew nor cared much about the previous incarnations.  But having enjoyed Hudlin's Panther so much, it made me open to read stuff from Priest/Kirby to see how the character was previously done whereas before I wouldn't have given them a second thought.  Marvel's bogged down in almost 50 years of outdated backlog so a good story, continuity or otherwise is a good story period.  And spare me the "my opinion" garbage, that's a given and if you don't want your opinion challenged, you deliberately walked into the wrong place.

I hope Hudlin's reboot of the Panther absolutely erases and obliterates from the continuity timeline, the abduction and rape of T'Challa's mother Ramonda.

Had the "Panther's Quest" saga been written by Hudlin, I'm sure it would have had an ending that I would have truly appreciated. Anton Pretorious would have been dead.

Ramonda would have killed him. T'Challa would have resurrected that scum so that he could kill him again. And finally, Pretorius would have been resurrected one final time so that Ramonda and T'Challa could kill him together for the third and final time.

968
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 10:05:58 pm »
Well, be sure to let me know when he does anything on the level of defeating Mephisto, bankrupting an enemy by crashing the global economy, revealing that he's had battleships secretly parked in U.S. coastal waters for years, or taking over Tony Stark's company by donating a bunch of trucks to a third world country.  Oh, right -- intellectual stimulation isn't high on Hudlin's priority list.  Never mind.   ::)


- Jer

Check this.

Priest's Panther defeats Mephisto and at least one critic of Hudlin thinks that is a great thing.

Hudlin's Panther defeats Sabretooth and the fanboys are ready to riot and burn Marvel Comics to the ground.

Double standard anyone?

969
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 09:56:20 pm »

Well, be sure to let me know when he does anything on the level of defeating Mephisto, bankrupting an enemy by crashing the global economy, revealing that he's had battleships secretly parked in U.S. coastal waters for years, or taking over Tony Stark's company by donating a bunch of trucks to a third world country.  Oh, right -- intellectual stimulation isn't high on Hudlin's priority list.  Never mind.   ::)


- Jer

I'll do even better than that Jer.

Instead of letting you know when Reginald Hudlin does anything on the level of those things that Priest's "fanboy-friendly" Black Panther ever did, I'll give you some very good advice instead.

Don't wait for me or anyone else to tell you about it. Buy the books yourself. Don't just read through the books slap-dash and willy-nilly in a comic book store and then be satisfied that you know all there is necessary to know. Spend the money. Buy the book. Hudlin's Black Panther is a great investment and well worth the money spent.

Having a copy of that book in your hands, you won't need me or anyone else to tell you when Hudlin matches Priest, but you will actually have the book in your possession when Hudlin's Panther exceeds anything Priest's Panther was ever able to accomplish.

Take my advice. You'll be thanking me  ;)

970
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 09:38:23 pm »
Al Campanis once said that blacks may not have the "necessities" to be field managers and general managers in baseball. Why? Only a prejudiced, bigoted and/or genuinely misinformed individual could answer that question. You can find them in discussions where the hiring practices of black NFL coaches are in progress. Those are the same people who say that a black coach could never and will never lead a team to the Super Bowl. Those are the same people who say that Doug Williams' record-shattering performance during his Super Bowl triumph was an abberation and will never happen again as they wipe the sweat from their brows remembering that Steve McNair - then QB of the Tennessee Titans - came within mere seconds and one yard from becoming the second black QB to lead his team to a Super Bowl win.

Believe it or not, I read on some board somewhere, a post suggesting that Gail Simone would do a better job writing the character of Storm and they might have even said she would do a better job than Hudlin of writing the Black Panther. Definitely one of those "Al Campanis", "Jimmy the Greek" apologists and theorists of why blacks are good at some things and while they might never achieve success at other endeavors.

 ??? I'm not following how you came to this conclusion.

Admittedly, there may be some context to the post itself that leads you to believe that is the case, but as you present it it sounds as if the reason you associate the poster's opinion with those voiced by Al Campanis is simply because the poster suggested Simone would be a better writer for Storm and Panther than Hudlin.

Lots of great posts, all having opinions honestly stated and to be respected.

Jonathanos (I like the name. As badguys go, Thanos was a favorite of mine), have you ever heard or read  comments made by some sports fans - usually white sports fans - that closely approximate to the following examples?

- Black Quarterbacks are nothing more than an extra Running Back. They're athletic but haven't demonstrated the pin-point passing abilities and quick-decision making of the traditional (re: white) drop-back passing QB. QB is a cerebral position and it takes a thinking man (white man), not necessarily an athlete (black man) to play it effectively. McNabb and Vick are athletes and this is why they may never attain the post-season and overall success achieved by Joe Montana, John Elway, Brett Favre and Tom Brady.

Remember when some sports fans - usually white sports fans - used to say that unless there was a white point guard on the floor to direct their efforts, a predominantly black basketball team would lack the necessary discipline to win ball games?

Today, white adolescents account for the lion's share of the consumers of Rap music. As most of us participating in this forum is aware, Rap music went through a period when it was decidedly Afro-Centric. It's goal was directed at instilling pride in and imparting an historical/cultural foundation to black people and black youth, particularly the urban black youth. While there has always been a white presence in Rap music - and in every genre of black music for that matter - Rap seemed determined not to go the way of Blues, Jazz and Rock and Roll. The rappers were not about to go quietly into the dark night of cultural appropriation by the dominant white society.

Eventually however, white rappers were able to make enroads into the genre. Haltingly at first with acts like the Beastie Boys, House of Pain and Vanilla Ice, but with the advent of Third Base and finally eminem, the white rapper gained a measure of legitimacy. White youth finally had faces in the Rap game that were white like theirs and who they could relate to. Soon, it was eminem who was credited for bringing white fans into Rap music. Was it Chuck Berry...no it might have been Fats Domino who said he didn't really mind Elvis Presley being crowned "king of Rock and Roll" because the presence of Elvis meant that more consumers might notice his music. The same phenomena has manifested in Blues and Jazz music. White performers and fans of those genres are credited with keeping it alive.

In every case I've mentioned, it seems that any black endeavor cannot be truly successful unless there is some involvement - usually in a leadership capacity - by a white person or unless it is somehow influenced and directed by the dominant white culture.

Now to Reginald Hudlin, the writer who has taken the creation of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and made it his own.

Critics of Reginald Hudlin will attack his lack of attention to the detail of continuity. They will attempt to disparage his writing abilities although in my always humble opinion, Hudlin's work isn't lacking when compared to what any other writer in the business has done or is doing. Many critics of Hudlin will "nitpick this and nitpick that" when it is often apparent that what truly galls them is the fact that Hudlin is writing a Black Panther who bows to no man, no woman, no organization, no nation.

In the "Contest Of Champions II", Captain America was able to gain a victory over T'Challa in their duel and all was right with the fanboy world.

In Priest's "First Contact", T'Chaka and Captain America's brief struggle ended in a draw and the fanboys seemed able to live with that.

Hudlin's T'Chaka kicked Captain America's red, white and blue ass.

Huh?

There was no "narrow victory" for Cap over the Black Panther. There was no fighting to a draw between Cap and the Black Panther. Hudlin's Black Panther, the great King T'Chaka emerged with a decisive victory over Captain America. Captain America is to Marvel Comics what Superman is to DC and Marvel is going to let some upstart BET executive-turned comic book writer allow a "B-list" character...and an African character at that...walk away from a battle with Captain America with the defeated Cap slung over his shoulder like a side of beef?

Oh, those fanboys loved that. Not.

That and subsequent events written into his stories by Hudlin caused many fanboys (but not necessarily fans of the Black Panther and most decidedly not fans of Mr. Hudlin), to suggest that he might be racist. This seemed to lead into their longing for the days of the Roy Thomas Black Panther of the Avengers or the Black Panther as written by "ABH" - "Anybody But Hudlin". There is nothing in Gail Simone's writing ability that I can see that suggests she would be able to write Ororo, the Black Panther or both that would be superior to Mr. Hudlin's current excellent work.

This is what I am referring to when I say that for many of those fanboys, the "blacks may not have the necessities to..." opinion voiced by Al Campanis may play some part in their opinion of Mr. Hudlin's work and why they seem to feel that a white writer, or a black writer who tried to inject as much "white" into a comic book entitled "The Black Panther" and concerned itself primarily with the African king of an African nation as he possibly could, would be an improvement over Mr. Hudlin.

971
Other Comics / Re: Let's cast an old-school Luke Cage movie
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:33:28 am »
I've often held the opinion (and some of you might agree with me) that if a Luke Cage movie had been made in the 70's or 80's, casting wouldn't have been a problem, given the asmount of actors around at the time who could have played the part. Consider, Fred Williamson, Jim Brown, Jim Kelly, Carl Weathers. Hell, O.J. probably could have played Cage.

Thoughts?

Fred Williamson, Jim Brown and Carl Weathers would all make outstanding candidates for the role of Cage.

Pam Grier would have made a sexy Claire Temple. Perhaps just a little too sexy.

Maybe Teresa Graves ("Get Christy Love"), would be a better choice for the lovely, but demure Claire Temple.


972
Black Panther / Re: New Avengers 22
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:29:09 am »


 I think he's got it wrong Mighty Avengers will be the Pro Reg heros with a more classic flavor think West Coast Avengers and involve more world crisises and such ;while New or Secret Avengers  will be the Anti Reg heros with a more of the lineup you see in CW and will follow them as they try to bring down a corrupt SHIELD.

 As for Ares there are theories like him joining the New Secret Avengers to avenge Hercules or somthing like that.

Thanks for explaining this to me Truth.

I haven't brought into the CW, but I could definitely get into a "Secret Avengers" consisting of those heroes on Cap's side battling a corrupt SHIELD.

973
Black Panther / Re: DOOM IS COMING!!!!!
« on: July 29, 2006, 05:23:48 am »
The future of the Black Panther and Storm is definitely looking bright. Relatively speaking.

The future is looking so bright I've gotta wear shades. Where's my sunglasses?   8)

974
Black Panther / Re: Black Panther 18 The Wedding
« on: July 29, 2006, 04:45:38 am »
Many of Hudlin's critics have displayed what has appeared to me as a negative attitude and opinion of Hudlin before and certainly shortly after the onset of his run on the project. Those people didn't have the benefit of 18 issues as a basis from which to draw their conclusions. They relied on their prejudices where Hudlin's writing ability is concerned. Now that Hudlin's Panther is in full swing, the prejudice evinced by many of his critics has become bigotry as they search for reasons to criticize any adjustment for the better that Mr. Hudlin has made to the Panther, based upon versions that some of them aren't particularly familiar with in the first place.

Well, I'm not one of those people.  I looked forward to Hudlin's first issue of Black Panther, eager to see the book return to the shelves and interested to see a new writer's take on the character.  I thought issue #1 had some promise, though it presented some head-scratching historical problems -- and I hung in there for a couple more issues before the work completely turned me off.  I continued to flip through each new issue in the store, hoping it would get better -- and while Hudlin's writing has become a bit more eloquent and he's had some nice moments here and there, I think the book's faults still clearly outweigh its merits.  It's , the humor usually falls completely flat, and the stories themselves strike me as shallow, hackneyed, and ill-thought in general.

I have no problem saying Hudlin's Panther is better than Kirby's solo run or Gillis's miniseries, but it can't hold a candle to McGregor, Priest, or the Lee/Kirby origin issues, IMO.

- Jer

I have read messages in which the poster (not you Jer), gushes profusely over the transcendental talents of such writers as Claremont, Bendis, Simone and Priest. I've read books written by everyone of those creators and I must say, I don't see much of anything that separates them from one another or from the general run of most writers in the business.

You've criticized Reginald Hudlin's work as "both internally and externally inconsistent"...whatever that is supposed to mean. If it's anything like Christopher Priest introducing "White" wolves and "White" tigers into a story about a nation of people who live on the African continent where wolves and tigers - white or otherwise - simply do not exist, I've got to tell you. I haven't seen such inconsistency in Reginald Hudlin's writing as of yet, nor do I expect to see it ever. ****UPDATE**** It appears that there may be animals who are probably more closely related to the African jackals and wild dogs that some refer to as wolves. They are present in Denali and some have been spotted in Ethiopia.

Yes, Priest gave us the Dora Milaje. But where Priest's Dora Milaje was little more than the stereotypical female "eye-candy" with the capacity to decapitate anyone who ever was stupid enough to run afoul of them, Hudlin's Dora Milaje - while beautiful and often clad in form/flesh-revealing garb that is not meant to titillate, but is true to the culture of their homeland - look the part of warriors. They are far more imposing than Priest's "overture to the larger comic book buying demographic" ever were. Had I been Luke Cage riding in the backseat of Brother Voodoo's fine automobile, and the young Dora Milaje had asked me to remove my arm from her shoulder, I wouldn't have simply lifted my arm. That arm would have retracted from the fingertips up and into my arm socket. My body would have absorbed that arm. That is the difference between the imposing Dora Milaje of Reginald Hudlin and the "Smooth Girl" and "King" magazine pin-up girl, Christoper Priest Dora Milaje.

Reginald Hudlin's humor falls flat eh? I didn't exactly howl at the asinine antics of that idiot Everett K. Ross or T'Challa's man-servant and his stupid rantings about his battle exploits. I appreciated it for what it was; an attempt to interject levity into the story. I wasn't offended by his effort, neither did his effort ever elicit from my throat one solitary chuckle. Conversely, Hudlin has caused my rather full lips to stretch in a smile many times and yes, I have surprised myself by chuckling once or twice at a situation in his books. Most recently, the exchange between Spider-Man and Man-Ape.

Infuriated because he'd believed himself to have been scorned by T'Challa and not invited to the wedding, Man-Ape embarks on a journey of revenge to Wakanda only to be met and informed at the border that he had in fact, been invited to the wedding afterall. And then when Man-Ape admits to Spider-Man that he wasn't even aware that such a list had even existed, it is that sort of subtle humor that made me chuckle. Hudlin is smooth like that. In my always humble opinion, Claremont doesn't have the ability to interweave elements of drama, suspense, violence and humor into a storyline that Hudlin has time and again, displayed in his short but already illustrious run on this series.

Al Campanis once said that blacks may not have the "necessities" to be field managers and general managers in baseball. Why? Only a prejudiced, bigoted and/or genuinely misinformed individual could answer that question. You can find them in discussions where the hiring practices of black NFL coaches are in progress. Those are the same people who say that a black coach could never and will never lead a team to the Super Bowl. Those are the same people who say that Doug Williams' record-shattering performance during his Super Bowl triumph was an abberation and will never happen again as they wipe the sweat from their brows remembering that Steve McNair - then QB of the Tennessee Titans - came within mere seconds and one yard from becoming the second black QB to lead his team to a Super Bowl win.

Believe it or not, I read on some board somewhere, a post suggesting that Gail Simone would do a better job writing the character of Storm and they might have even said she would do a better job than Hudlin of writing the Black Panther. Definitely one of those "Al Campanis", "Jimmy the Greek" apologists and theorists of why blacks are good at some things and while they might never achieve success at other endeavors.

Gail Simone is obviously a very talented writer whose feminine sensibilities may allow her to tap into an essence of the feminine mystique which appeals to any female reader of her stories and many male readers...at least those who truly enjoy the books she writes and not because the female characters she has written for (Birds Of Prey is my only exposure to her writing), are often scantily clad. In my always humble opinion, I believe that Gail Simone would write a Storm that white female readers of her stories might relate to, but a Storm many black female readers might not be able to.

Some critics of Hudlin's work have suggested that his work is racist. I believe that that misperception and mischaracterization of Hudlin's writing is what is near the core - if not directly ground zero - of the resentment toward Hudlin's Black Panther....who in my always humble opinion, IS the Black Panther.

Yes, one day Donovan McNabb will lead the Eagles to a Super Bowl win. After that, I strongly suspect that Michael Vick, Daunte Culpepper, Vince Young and others will make such events commonplace.

Dennis Green, Herm Edwards and Tony Dungy will very likely not only lead their teams to a Super Bowl, but will lead those teams to Super Bowl victories before sinjection takes his dirt nap.

Cito Gaston - former manager of the Toronto BlueJays...the World Champion Toronto Bluejays - has already disproved Al Campanis' assertion that he didn't have the "neccessities" to manage a baseball team.

And, oh look. Reginald Hudlin is writing the best Black Panther that has ever been.

I love it when talented people shoot the hell out of stupid myths.

975
Black Panther / Re: World Tour Arc
« on: July 29, 2006, 03:53:49 am »


Mm, I have an idea for a thread.

And do you intend to keep that idea to yourself forever my friend?

Give!  :)

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