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Messages - Jay

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61
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 20, 2010, 12:34:43 pm »
Above, jokingly, people commented as to whether I am getting tired arguing with Democrats about health care. That's not really my motivation (health care is not even even one of my "main" issues - geopolitics are more important to me in this era).  So why do I do this?  One fundamental reason:

To stop the hate.



Gasp! I don't hate republicans. I think they maybe nervously attached to their guns alittle too much hehe but that's about it.


Jay, as to your idea that if what I am predicting proves to be true we can turn the clock back and undo it ... no, by then it will be too late.  Too many people will be further dependent on the State, and less reliant on themselves.  If we get to that point, of America becoming a second-rate militarily-impotent isolationist nation with a miserable economy and mountains of debt, populated by the psychologically self-absorbed, that truly will herald the decline of what was once a great nation. We will be in no position to fight those who threaten us, who will include not only terrorist cells but major nation states (some of whom support those terrorists) that will flex their muscles everywhere they can, to expand their spheres of influence, economically, militarily, and ideologically. And this world will be a far far worse place for it.


Actually Micheal we may have already gotten to that point and it has nothing to do with the state but everything to do with Mommy and Daddy. You ever watch sweet 16? We're rasising these kids to become too dependent on someone or something.

But I don't want us to become too self-reliant on the state. I want the state to help a man when he's down.

Lets look at how things are now.

Millions of people out of work and despartely looking for a job. (This was me until a few months ago) but lets focus on people (The out of work indiviual) in general.

Now they have to rely on the state to give them an unemployment check. But at the same time a lot of people hate getting an unemployment check they want to work. Or maybe the government is about to cut off unemployment benefits and they are afraid they won't get a job in time and you just spend your nights worrying about what to do next.

And here's the kicker. H.R doesn't give a damn that you NEED A JOB NOW!
Not later, not two months from now but NOW NOW.
And to add insult to injury the government just gave a whole bunch of 'stimulus' money to these coporations so they can keep there jobs when they were suppose to loan it back to the people.

Now I see only two options.

1) We go down there and demand our money at gunpoint

or
2) we regulate those industry so they don't stuff like that again and at the same time we get those coporate lobyyists out of Washington.

But we need government control over those business and the best way to do that is get those loybbists and make it so they can't fund senators and congressmen.

Once you get that out of the way, we need a living wage. We can at least do that much for our citizens. Heck, Great Britian does that much for it's citizens and they're not even a super power.

Now one of the problems with a living wage is that this might put more people out of work because employeers would have to pay there lower workers more. Or or maybe they take a pay cut. I understand there are execs that work hard for there money but what about the ones that don't. What about execs that just sit goes to a meeting everyonce in awhile and still collect a fat check?

Aren't there people at AIG that has lost millions of dollars and then asked for like a thousad dollar bonus to do God-knows what?

http://www.mytwodollars.com/2008/10/17/aig-execs-caught-wasting-even-more-of-our-money-after-bailout/

Surely you can pay more money to it's people so they can be better off. But that would be putting a cap on how much people could potentially earn so people at the bottom can have more.

And finally, Universal Health Care. Hows about this. Private vs Public Health Care faciliaties. Curtis is right. They don't have to be mutually exclusive. In fact, Great Britian has both private and public faciliaties.

And this actually works to your benefit too. With a Public Option in place this give the private industries something to compete for. There's now a competition or a Market in place now to provide a better service. How we going to steal these Americans away from the 'public' option.

I don't want to see people become too dependent either but I think the government should be doing more for it's people and as to defense. Why not let the other members of NATO do it? Serisously who elected us the WORLD POLICE?!

62
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 19, 2010, 08:30:24 pm »
Micheal why do WE need to police the world? Just let: France and Switzerland do it ;)

You know what's going to keep America safe in the 21st century. Not aircrafts and guns but good intelligence work and stop Al-Queda before they strike us. We don't need superior aircrafts and tanks. We need smart guys in the C.I.A who can figure out what the terrorists are planning before they do it.  That's how we're going to keep our borders safe.

63
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 19, 2010, 03:50:52 pm »
The body speaks


64
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 19, 2010, 11:36:51 am »

Micheal do you just want to argue with democrats on health care? You've got to be tired by now.



Mike isn't here to argue...

Mike is here to gather information.

Mike = One of Obama's Governmentmen from the US cenus!  ;)

65
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 19, 2010, 10:20:57 am »
Who has been footing the bill for Europe's defense?  ;)

I wonder what percentage of GDP France commits to its national defense?  How about Germany? How about Canada, for that matter? I don't know. Just asking, though my guess is that it has to be a whole lot less. I wonder what the global consequences would be were the United States to dedicate the same percentage of its GDP to these Western European style social programs, and the same percentage of GDP to national defense? Even our resources are limited. It may not be possible to fully fund both, particularly as the cost of not only Health Care but all Entitlement Programs rise. (Knowing folks on the Forum, I'm sure many would be delighted with this prospect, particularly given the controversy surrounding Afghanistan and Iraq, but that prospect scares the hell out of me)  Would this lead to the decline of the United States of America as a global power? Supplanted by what? The United Nations? (More accurately "The United Governments" many of which are less than democratic). The Islamic Republic of Iran or those who advocate a similar ideological movement? :P


Micheal do you just want to argue with democrats on health care? You've got to be tired by now.

Anywho my thing is if we can't fully support both, CUT down national defense. Let Eurpoe protect themselves. And you're right I'm delighted over that aspect. Why would it be scary? Less funding goes to national defense but we already have: CIA, NSA, FBI, homeland security, and the national guard. How much protection do we need? Instead of having all those programs to protect ourselves from terrorist hows about we merge them all into one big unit. Call it

S.W.O.R.D + S.H.I.E.L.D  ;)

As to growing cost. Isn't there are things in the law designed to make getting medical care more efficient? I remember a rally where President Obama stated this bill (which is now law) identified things most would classify as wasteful expenditure.

Micheal I'm kindof looking at this like forming a new business. You have to put money in it to get started. (Money that we don't have. This is the thing that most scares me about this law) and hopefully you start generating profits. Or in this case eliminating wasteful spendatures.

Let's for the sake of argument give off two scenarios. One this law is a success and the other it's a huge failure.

I don't think China will loan us the money we already owe them like a billion dollars. You have to redistubt spending on the federal and state level. And finally you have to tax someone, say Business (which I know you hate), the rich (which I think is unfair) and finally everybody has there taxes increased.

Now you said earlier that no one minds taxes for good programs or something like that. I believe in this that I wouldn't mind being taxed for it.  Personally, I would like to be selfish and just get that wealthy 1% taxed but meh.  lol

So let's say everybody's taxes goes up and you cut the national defense budget (like you suggested, good idea by the way) and there's enough money now to cover this health care bill. The first question is if eveybody is paying a flat tax increase for this health care bill how much does taxes actually go up?

I think there's 250 million people in america. So that's 250 million dollars right there for health care if we all just give a dollar. But you can't tax the unemployed and under President Obama's plan you would tax the rich more.

So the pressure to squeeze more money comes out of the wealthy's hands.
So in a sense, it turns into a case of the HAVE NOTS VS. the HAVES!

I get that business worked hard for their money. People worked hard for their money. I don't want to take anybody's money away and yet at the same time this is really important to me. The african american community has always had a high unemployment rate. And now that unemployment rate is 16 % and you have to ask yourself why?

Poor education. Less Networking skills. You said your son is a lawyer or going to law school from your own words, (you didn't exactly say) but are you a lawyer too? Did you not provide the best education for your son and did you not open one or two doors for him at the same time. (Network for him) You know to help him get started.   

You are most likely part of the HAVES in this equation.

And just for sake of getting all racial up in here.  ::)
Let's look at a black man who's well educated (Got his Masters and knows how to Network) stastically speaking you still have a higher unemployment rate for this man then say the white man. 

And I know you must have heard all this before but bear with me.

So you have a bunch of people in the African American Community who are towards the LOWER and/or Middle income family for whatever reason who could benefit a lot from this health care law. Because essentially we tend to be the HAVENOTS in alot of ways. Not saying that all Blacks are Havenots

But it would be nice to have a system in place were the government was doing more for people who simply can't afford it (health care) or at least making the effort to treat it's sick.

and the other scenario. We invest in this and it doesn't save us money. It fails and now the American people owe billions/massive debt. We lose our global place in the world and now another country takes the lead maybe China (we owe them alot of money already)

So we lose our global place in the world. America is no longer a super power. Isn't that the worst that would happen? (And yeah, I'm well aware of that prospect freightens you) But America will still be here if it's nolonger a super power. We will still be the same country of left wing/right wing idiots fighting over health care or something else.

What does being a super power really mean? That the world looks to US for support?   In food, defense, blah blah blah! Let Europe and Africa and everybody else handle their own damn problems. Screw them. Put Americans first!  And at least we tried to do that if this law fails. At least we tried to put Americans first by giving everyone a decent basic level of care. 

66
Vox Populi / Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« on: April 19, 2010, 07:19:45 am »
Well I find it funny because people thinking he's a muslim even though he's shown his American birth certificate like 10,000 times and people still say he's a muslim. McCain even said in his campagin.

Old Woman: I don't trust him because he's a Muslim

John McCain: Ma'am. No he's not a Muslim.

I don't know how many times it's been said that he's not part of that faith and yet still persist in that belief. You have to at least laugh at it. Otherwise I think I would  :'(

But yeah, you're right. *Removed*

67
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 18, 2010, 09:05:07 pm »
Jay, is there any circumstance where Conservatives, critical of the policies and philosophy of the Administration, could NOT be accused of racism?  We can't test it other than speculatively: Were Barack Obama a white Left-winger, who was elected after fostering a large grassroots movement, would a Conservative grassroots movement emerge to oppose his policies and seek his "replacement" in the next general election?  My guess is yes.  Or, alternatively, were Barack Obama a Conservative Republican, would you still expect a Tea Party movement to emerge finding fault with him, because he is black?  My guess is no.


John McCain can criticism his policy without being considered a racists.

http://getitfromboy.net/john-mccain-daughters/

I also suppose no one would say Alan Keyes is a racist, either.

 
As to the issue of the size of Government, my concern is with the absolute magnitude of Government spending in the aggregate, the fiscal crisis that will definitely emerge in the future as a result, and the destructive impact all this will have on our economy and, ultimately, on our nation as a whole.  

A part of the problem is the cost of insurance, and one proposal that made a great deal of sense was to allow competition of insurance companies across state lines.  Though I may be wrong, my understanding was that this was not included in the final bill.


I remember John McCain suggesting that. Although I'm not sure how that makes a great deal of sense. Insurance companies are very similar so that option only seems to allow false hope.

OH yeah, the insurance is better in .... ___________! You get to _________________ and it's not any different. Is it? I don't think insurance companies will be throwing themselves to get at people from different states. ???

And it might have been included in the final bill. I hear it's pretty long.

I am sympathetic to the plight of parents who give birth to a child with a debilitating and costly medical condition, that nobody could have anticipated. But a number of concerns have been expressed regarding the health care bill, now law, that suggest that the end result will be a deterioration of health care in the aggregate.


deterioration? Are you sure that's not just a scare tactic? Sure this new law will be expensive and I would have much preferred if Obama waited until this country was stronger financially but it is what it is.
But here's the thing. If our side is right, then this law will save us money in the long run and everybody will have medical care. People won't have to worry about going broke. Or googling there symptoms. They can just go to the doctor and get it treated when the disease is relatively inexpensive and easy to treat.

I'm pretty sure President Obama has weighed the issues and took into account how things will play out if this new measure is a success or if this new measure will be a failure or not. I trust his judgment. Heck, I did vote for him. 

Now if your side is right. We go where we're going now, only a lot faster!

Given the option, I choose the former. And besides if worst comes to worst we can always repeal the law if those assumptions turn out to be correct. I can promise you if things get really bad then I'll be protesting with the tea bagers. I don't think President Obama would put the country at risk like that and also at the same time similar systems are in place over in Europe and there Euro was actually worth more money then the dollar. In fact, I think it still is.

And Canada also enjoys a public health option and there named by the U.N as one of the best places to live. No U.S city makes it. They may have to go through some long lines to get treated by they ain't economically broke.

Now I don't want to live in Canada (Although I have thought about being a dual citizen) You have to ask, how can these systems have universal health care and not go bankrupt but the minute someone suggest america does the same. This country will go bankrupt and health care will detoriate.

France has the best health care system in the world. Universal health care and no long lines. If it's so bad why does the most of Europe persist in this idiocracy?   Why not become more like us if we're the best. Why does the Left want to reform it if we have the best?


69
Vox Populi / Re: the black tea partier. Yeah he does exist.
« on: April 18, 2010, 12:54:44 pm »

Nobody objects to paying taxes for necessary services and national defense. Those are burdens that we all should share. 

Of course the Tea Party Supporters are concerned about the welfare of this country. My goodness man, in your bizarre world view only people who agree with you care about America and America's future?  The entire issue here is the direction our nation is headed, to what extent the Administration wants to push it to the Left, and the extent to which traditional American values and rights should be retained.


But Michael that's exactly what it seems like the tea party is actually doing. Obamacare is something that should benefit every american especially low and middle income families. I think it's a good thing that people want to protest government. It shows that the american people are talking an interest in what's going on in their government. (Even if I happen to disagree with it)

How else would you keep insurance companies from dropping someone with a pre-existing condition. How else would you make sure that an uninsuranced american who doesn't make enough money gets proper medical care? Sure get a job and give him or her medical benefits. But unemployment is rampant in the Black community (over ten percent). Sure America has the best medical treatment in the world but where we fail at is not everyone has access to that level of care. What's the point of having fancy cancer stoping radiation machines if only the wealthy can afford it?

We have an answer. This new health care plan! How can something with such good intentions hurt this great country of ours?  And why protest now when a Black president in office. Why didn't this protest come with the last administration? Torturing terrorists. Invading the wrong country. WHY NOW? If you were to look at prints from the media you would automatically link it to be something racial. And you know, that maynot be all of it (Since there is a black tea partier) but sadly with some of them I think it plays a role to some degree. 

It is a large crowd of people. I don't want to generalize.

But now let me ask you. If Obama's health care plan is not the answer. Then what is?

70
Finance / Re: CLINTON: I WAS WRONG from ABC News
« on: April 18, 2010, 12:28:57 pm »
...at least he can admit the mistake.. unlike... ;)

I wonder who you're talking about  ???

71
Vox Populi / Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« on: April 18, 2010, 11:25:40 am »
Outsourcing is a problem, I agree. But the solution is not to cripple American business and undermine economic incentives for success. If, over the long term, the only "solution" is greater and greater expansion of government and greater and greater retraction of private enterprise, then our country really is doomed.



DOOOOMMMMEEDDD!!! lol

I don't think such a thing will cripple American business. I think such a thing will be greater for all once you achieve the right balance. But you have to achieve that right balance.

It basically seems to me that we agree on the problem we just disagree on how to fix it. You're free hand of the market. I'm more government expansion.

Conservative meets left-wing nut job. You know that has a nice ring to it.

72
Vox Populi / Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« on: April 18, 2010, 08:16:18 am »
Jay, there is absolutely nothing wrong with businesses striving to make a profit. This is not evil. This is how people support themselves in business, and aspire to grow and innovate to attract more customers for their goods and services.

Often those on the Left parrot the old Communist Party Line, of Capitalist "Greed" etc etc etc ...  Don't fall for it.

Where things do fall off track is where executives engage in outright fraud (etc), as we discussed on the "Black Tea Partier" thread.  Mechanisms do exist, and are appropriately exercised, to deal with this.

As to Reaganomics, the concept (which was correct) is that by reducing taxes, you stimulate business expansion, and thus (paradoxically) increase the tax base as more expanded businesses earn more income subject to income taxation. As the tax base increases, taxes raised increase, even though the tax rate is reduced.  Because the amount of taxes collected is a function of two elements:  Tax Rate x Tax Base.  The Tax Base is not static, but rather increases as business is encouraged.

The jobs created by this approach are, by the way, productive jobs, not inefficient Government make-work "jobs."

What?! When did I say making a profit was evil ???

Here's the thing. I kindof agree that reducing taxes will promote jobs but that requires me to believe that big business will hire AMERICAN workers or do the right thing! Which is why I find it hard to subscribe to the trickle-down theory. (or as I like to call it, the Golden-shower theory  :D)

I could have sworn when I called a recent help line that "Joe" (if that was his real name) had a Indian accent. lol
(but maynot be what you consider a PRODUCTIVE JOB)

I don't think capitalism is greedy in itself. I think there's too much example of corporate greed going on. Enron got punished but how many more companies get away with doing what Enron did?

And yes or no. The gap between the rich and the poor is growing?

Now on the flip side, I did get a chance to talk to a respectable businessman who said the causes of his taxes going up was the reason he couldn't hire more american workers.

However, again I think people like him in these big business corporations are few and far between. Most I think would just pocket that money instead of creating new jobs here in America and would just OUTSOURCE to mexico or some other country where they can pay a worker a few cents then an American worker who would need more money plus benefits.

73
Vox Populi / Re: Tax Protestor Crashes Plane Into Office Building.
« on: April 17, 2010, 08:50:35 am »
The Soviet Union would have crashed with or without Reagan's intervention. Basically all Reagan did was to use the Red Scare excuse to spend as much money on weapons that weren't really necessary while screwing the underprivileged.

The only thing I think you're right, Mike. Is when you say radical Islamism is a threat as big or bigger than communism ever was. .

Well, my recollection is that Reagan outspent the Soviets, and that they could not sustain the cost of their end of the Cold War. 

... but that's history.  As to the present geopolitical threat, looks like we see eye to eye.  ;)



Regan! lol

Didn't that dude create something called Reganeconomics? Which is basically telling businessmen it's okay to be greedy!

74
General Discussion / Re: KFC 'double down' sandwich
« on: April 17, 2010, 08:20:55 am »
man. So many health nuts on this forum.

My thing is a tasty sandwich is a tasty sandwich. Calories or whatever be damned. What does it taste like?

I already like the Original Recipe from there, when you put the pepper jack cheese for a lil kick of spiciness and cant go wrong with bacon....*speechless*.  If you like the Original Recipe, I think your like the sandwich.

I love chicken and I love bacon and I love cheese. I don't see how one can go wrong with this sandwich.  8)

And it's all meat. Yum!  ;D

75
Black Panther / Re: DOOMWAR # 3 Preview
« on: April 16, 2010, 10:10:35 pm »
Oh man, I can't wait.

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