Hudlin Entertainment Forum

Thing is that we have seen reboots, and recasts. Characters that have existed for so long should and will have different takes. If it's a character like say, Brian from the fast franchise where walker essentially defined the character for years. I still think that if walker passed after the first movie and the second was already green lit they would recast.



https://www.facebook.com/89650649583/posts/10158612385179584/

Maybe Shuri won’t get it after all since Letitia can’t play the Hollywood game right...there are stories now about M’Baku taking the role.  Killmonger too.  Sigh...just recast.

You said most but pointed out three specifically.

Anyway if Storm is already a part of the “progressive, woke” crowd by virtue of being an X Men why bother including Black Panther and Wakanda?

because black Panther and wakanda have an entire historical civilization of black people to play with. Way larger playing field.  Greater possibilities, plus already a billion dollar franchise.  And ones like Okorafor are interested in afrofuturism, which Wakanda represents.  But Ayala herself has already done both, so why wouldn’t they do both if given the opportunity? Didn’t Hudlin try to bring Storm over to try and be a part of the “black” crowd? Rhetorical.

How can we not be serious about Riri Williams when she has most of the attributes of Shuri?

yeah, except she’s not an afrofuturist princess of an advanced African civilization connected to a billion dollar franchise.  She’s a legacy character that hardly no one actually knows.

The princess of Wakanda too was castigated before she became the media darling by virtue of being in her brother's movie. So there's hope for M.

”hope” and “currently working” are two different things.  And I can guarantee most of them never heard of M.

I thought since Narcisse was brought in by Coates he reped the Woke crowd. 

was he?  From what I read Narcisse paid a lot more attention to TChalla and wrote him very well, so no, I didn’t consider him in that crowd.  Though I’m sure he’s supportive of them

The way you argued the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives perspective may have some thinking you're on their side but I know better.

Not if people have actually been paying attention to what I’ve been saying from the beginning.  But again, I’m not necessarily against the “woke” crowd.  A gay Dora Milaje couple was fine with me.  Hell, I don’t care if they actually made Shuri gay.  I just don’t want the erasure of TChalla and them taking too much advantage with that.

Marvel’s King In Black arrives in February

[color=red]I stand corrected on Thorne.  Maybe he will write Shuri as BP if they kill TChalla off in the comics as well.  We’ll see[/color][/color]



Written by Geoffrey Thorne with art by Germán Peralta

Of all we discussed in this thread it all comes back to the unprecedented display of film making; cultural and social impact; mass merchandising and financial success of an Afrakan superhero... T'Challa the Black Panther.

Afrakan people the world over celebrated this film for depicting an Afrakan man who was intelligent, compassionate and a leader not enthralled to western influences. They appreciated seeing strong and decisive Afrakan men. They rejoiced in seeing an Afrakan woman who was a technological genius and reveled in the fact that Afrakan women were working their own aesthetics. Marveled at seeing Afrakan men and women is supportive yet complex relationships.

Afrakan people the world over greatly admired this film for portraying a stunningly beautiful Afrakan nation untouched by Asian, Arab or European cultures nor suffered the horrors of invasion,colonization, captivity and enslavement. They embraced the righteous indignation of an Afrakan man seeking vengeance and desiring to free his suffering people through armed struggle. All this and more was the Black Panther.

And this is something they can't take away or undo.

So it doesn't matter what they do going forward. They can make Shuri the Black Panther, have her hang out with Hank Pym and acting humble and impressed by his big quantum realm. They can turn all the Dora Milaje into fierce lesbians with lots of on screen antics. They can have Okoye wearing wigs and appreciating it after divorcing W'Kabi. They can have Nakia fall in love with the sensitive, white boy social worker in her outreach program who happens to have a deep affinity for Wakandan culture. They can even have Wakanda experience drugs, poverty,tree house rape camps and military dictatorship. So what.

It just doesn't matter what they do.

With regards to the Black Panther, particularly the movie, the conundrum the “black feminists and WOKE” creatives find themselves in is one in which they are constantly reacting to and trying to overwrite something organically Afrakan from its inception as opposed to independently producing something inherently centered in their worldview. The “black feminists and WOKE” creatives can only corrupt what comes next in Black Panther while the Afrakan centered conscious crowd gave integrity to a film now considered a classic in the genre. The Afrakan centered conscious crowd already got their wishes fulfilled in spades.   

Historically whenever Afrakn people had organizations or mass movements grounded in their traditions the enemies of such (some within, most from outside) put forth counter measures to retard, subvert or dismantle such efforts. If there was Pan-Africanism then there was Socialism and Communism to counter. When Afrocentricism was posited it was met with Multiculturalism and Feminism. Currently it is Afrakan autonomy being blindsided by inclusion and representation. As this is a cultural conflict, it is one of spirit and ideology.

We've been here before in the pages of the Black Panther comic book. What Priest, Hudlin, McDuffie, Liss, Aaron and Narcisse did is written and printed. Its all over the internet. It can't be undone despite the efforts of Maberry, Hickman, Aaron, Coates, Gay, Harvey and Okorafor. If history is to repeat itself we shall witness the same chain of events manifest in film. The Boseman, Coogler, Cole and Russo era versus what ever comes next. The qualifier for all things Black Panther is based on how well Afrakan people and their traditional ancestral culture is represented despite the foibles. This is what Afrakan centered science fiction, speculative fiction and historical fiction should be grounded in. What is being the Black Panther is what is being Afrakan sans the corruption and perversions historically inflicted upon them. This is what in fact is the film Black Panther.


This is Afrakan excellence.



581630

Quote from: A.Curry on December 16, 2020, 09:30:04 am

Quote from: Ture on December 16, 2020, 08:48:15 am

Salutations Mr. Curry. This missive serves to inform you that you failed to reply to Post #3355 sent Yesterday at 09:08:43 pm. While we at the Wakandan Office of State recognize this was just a minor oversight on your part, we would appreciate your feedback. We thank you in advance and await your response.

WAKANDA FOREVER

Most everything in that post I already addressed in one way or another in my other posts, and even in my last.  As for female inclusion, hey, I agree with you.  I don’t think going forth with Shuri as BP for “greater female inclusion” is necessary.  I never cared for Shuri nor thought she was ever necessary in the first place.  And I liked the original concept of the Dora way better. 

My point was that the “black feminist and WOKE” creatives is going to take all advantage of this, writers like Vita Ayala and others who have been way more interested in the supporting women characters of Wakanda, fans online who are all for Shuri being BP and NOT recasting TChalla who argue “she took the mantle in the comics, so it was gonna happen anyway” and “anyone can be black Panther” and “let a QUEEN rule” and so forth.  Those who are for recasting and saying TChalla’s story was not finished being told are being shamed for not being okay with Shuri taking the mantle.  (Funny enough, it seems it’s mostly black women and white men who are doing this and for Shuri taking the mantle and letting TChalla die with Boseman.  I do see this as related to Coogler expanding so greatly on the other characters, especially the female ones, in the franchise and now? The writers who have not been very interested in TChalla and moreso in Shuri, Okoye, and others will have their chance.  All I’m saying. 

As for Harry Potter, there were plenty of arguments about how more black people needed to be in the franchise, and there has been a heavy movement since the movies in making Hermione black, saying she was like a white girl who used “black girl magic” and there have been theatrical productions where they’ve made Hermione black.  Lol there’s even a spoken word video on how Hermione is really a black girl.  And Rowling is cool with it,  Guarantee you, if they ever redo Potter Hermione will be a black girl.

But you can’t replace “Harry Potter” because that’s literally who he is.  Apparently, again, Black Panther can be anyone. So can Batman, but Bruce Wayne is so tied pathologically to the character it would be hard to do.  And he always comes back,  In the current MCU, hey are letting TChalla die with Boseman,  they likely will follow suit in the comics too.

Mr. Curry, thank you for the prompt reply. May I call you A.? I am in agreement with you on the original concept of the Dora Milaje. Just tweek it a bit. Two age appropriate women who are going to marry the king. A queen, of course, would have the Doro Milaje and two age appropriate men she was intent on marrying.

What is your opinion A. on why “black feminists and WOKE” creatives are so interested in Black Panther with such fervor. Surely their time could be better spent working on...








Why aren't “black feminists and WOKE” creatives storming Themyscira?



Simple. And for various reasons.  Most of the characters you have above don’t have the same cultural importance, power, world, or impact that BP and the world of Wakanda does. What’s Monica Rambeau or Misty Knight or Vixen compared to a black Disney princess who is also the tech leader in the world’s most advanced and all black civilization?  Especially one who, in the comics, had the mantle before and can again? Or a bald, black, female general who leads her own all black female army in that same world? Who cares about Wonder Woman and her mostly white amazons when you’ve already got it’s equivalent ready made in wondrous Wakanda? The playing field is vast and already there and ripe for the stories they want to tell.  Hell, it’s the same reason we are more interested in Black Panther than we are Falcon or War Machine.  And why the hell has Marvel not gotten Night Thrasher out of slumber if it’s so much about diversity truly?

Also, Marvel with it’s heavy focus over the last few years on diversity and inclusion has swung open those gates for women of color, but especially black women and especially with Black Panther.  Starting with the feminist and woke slant that Ta-Nehesi took, and all the social fanfare and goodwill a writer of his stature created, it bought in Roxanne Gay, Yona Harvey, Nnedi Okorafor, and who knows how many other black feminist woke writers to work on this, with, as Ezyo said I believe, Vita Ayala being the one of the moment.  Vita, who is millennial, black and Hispanic, gender neutral, and gay. Lol...get ready for Shuri to explore all this in the comics. Not like her (or “their”, as I believe “they” will be referred to soon) sexuality has been defined yet. 

None of these writers have shown much interest in T’Challa as much as they have the supporting characters.  Also, funny, none of them from what I know have been asked or shown interest in even writing Wonder Woman, Ms. Marvel, Misty Knight, or others. Wakanda, not necessarily Black Panther but Wakanda, is where it’s at.  (That being said, there is a new Wonder Woman being introduced that is a “woman of color”)

Also, as others made a good point on here, it’s not always about the money.  There is a paradigm shift happening in popular and social culture right now and a lot of it is focusing on black people with the advent of BLM and all (started by black, woke women) but a heavy shift on that is on academic, educated black women in particular.  Black women creatives, activists, politicians, and so forth are hot right now and with a “black” woman one step away from the presidency now, it’s made even bigger.  “Black girl magic” is everywhere, even with a new 007 as one.  And to a certain extent, it’s being done along with the demonizing and dismissal of black men quite a bit.

 And who would benefit moreso by letting die the most powerful black male comics character in comics, period, and letting a “less threatening” woman take over?  White men. It’s no coincidence to me that the major people I see wanting no recast and Shuri to take the mantle are mostly black women and white men

Again the demand for Shuri taking the mantle comes from a insular perspective and is vocal in certain spheres orbiting in the ether-verse. There are other domains in cyberspace insistent on maintaining the status quo concerning Black Panther. With regards to Harry Potter it wouldn't take much to produce Harriet Potter or create a new character with the same birth right as her predecessor and be the first woman to be a wizard at Hogswart. Kind of like what they may do to James Bond.

I think you’re underestimating that demand for Shuri, also the woke politics that are going along with it and the goodwill it can buy.  Again, if the case were different Feige would just recast.  Or hold off for awhile.  Don’t tell me this is all out of SO much respect for Boseman when there are ways you can spin it to recast and show Boseman respect.

As for Potter, true.  But at that point you’re creating a whole other character with no history behind it, you’re just changing his sex. They’d probably do better just giving Hermione her own movie, who was almost if not just as popular as Harry in the movies and books.  But that’s the difference, Black Panther is a mantle, Harry Potter is an actual person.  And it’s too easy for a Shuri to just take on that mantle wherein changing Harry’s sex would be more complicated..

Quote from: A.Curry on December 15, 2020, 04:47:23 pm

]

Exactly.  And do we think they’d go on with the next movie without him if they thought they still couldn’t make billions of dollars?

You think Aquaman sequels would be made if Jason Momoa died?  They probably would, but would recast him.  Why?  No one in that movie (no matter how dumb I thought Momoa’s acting was) can do what Arthur Curry does or outshined the lead character.  Mera might be the closest, but Aquaman didn’t have some little sister that made a suit for him or gave him his powers, didn’t have supporting characters so layered and with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as he was, and so forth.  And AQ didn’t have half the cultural impact or importance Black Panther did.  But what they lost is that TCHALLA AS BLACK PANTHER is necessary.  But the way things were set up after the movie, and before it honestly? Anyone can be Black Panther.

Which is why they’re forging ahead without him.

No one did what T'Challa could do in his movie. For example, rip through the roof of a SUV; claw off a tire on a high speeding vehicle; bulldog a charging rhino; defeat M'Baku, Kill Killmonger; out run speeding cars on a highway in Bucharest, not to mention out distancing everyone else save Cap in the battle of Wakanda. T'Challa was not out shined by any supporting character.

Aquaman didn't make his suit either. It was a centuries old hand me down of Atlan’s gifted to him by the Karathen, who allowed Arthur to grab the Trident, which then caused Atlan’s body to disintegrate and thus Arthur getting some new, old clothes.  Shuri didn't give T'Challa any powers, she merely gifted him an updated  design of his Black Panther suit.

one that she had to instruct him on using, and a missed opportunity to show Tchalla’s engineering genius by transferring it on to her, something she never had in the comics. It made TChalla more of a bullet than the actual gun. And it took yet another thing away from him to make a supporting character great. And look, Aquaman is not as great as Panther. He’s not as smart or learned, so no one expects him to create a suit, but his powers and prescience are unique.  So is Tchalla’s, but they didn’t show enough of that in the movie to make it undeniable that he IS the franchise and that it shouldn’t go on without him..

Are you serious? Supporting characters so layered not to mention with the ability to fight almost to his level that they were as memorable as Aquaman? You didn't see this? First there was Atlanna in the lighthouse, Mera in Italy, Black Manta once he got outfitted with Atlantean armor, Orm in the arena

yet none of those characters were allowed to be on the level of the main character in terms of promotion, marketing, or action in the movie.  He was the center at all times and you knew it.  Hell, Okoye and Shuri were in marketing images for the avengers films!  Why?  They’re not even Avengers or marquee characters!  You didn’t see Iron Man or Cap supporting characters up there with the rest of the Avengers in marketing images..

How could Aquaman have half if not any of the cultural impact or importance that Black Panther had? It brought very little original or usable material necessary for that caliber of impact. The necessity of T'Challa was all through Black Panther. He spared M'Baku's life and made him an ally. Tried the same with Killmonger. He saved Shuri's life. It was T'Challa who told his father and ancestors they were wrong for not helping the rest of the world and it was T'Challa who initiated programs to do such and told the UN Assembly that Wakanda would join the community of nations.

all of these were subtle points that were not big or action oriented enough to really hit home that the character was the main star of the franchise.  Yes, he’s kind and shows humility.  He’s also flanked by everyone from Nakia to his mother to Okoye to Shuri instructing him and doing things almost as great as him. It just should’ve focused more on him and gave him everything he had in the comics.  Or were you for Shuri being made the one responsible for Wakanda’s advances and not T’Challa?  And of course Aquaman didn’t have the same cultural impact, it was at best a mediocre movie with an actor in the lead part with little range or depth.  That wa my point but I see you felt the need to elaborate on it lol. But again, I’ll bet if Momoa died, they wouldn’t just go on with “Aquaman 2” without the lead character.  How could they?

"Anyone can be Black Panther", you say that as if it is a bad thing. Yet and still no one did what T'Challa did. The removal of T'Challa from the sequel has nothing to do with what you stated. How do we know, because... Kevin Feige said so.

“I wanted to acknowledge the devastating loss of a dear friend and member of the Marvel Studios family,” Feige said. “Chadwick Boseman was an immensely talented actor and an inspirational individual who affected all of our lives professionally and personally. His portrayal of T’Challa the Black Panther is iconic and transcends iteration of the character in any other medium from Marvel’s past. It’s for that reason that we will not recast the character.”

LOL!!  Feige’s lip service in this statement is ALL about Boseman, not the character of TChalla!!  It’s about his portrayal, his iteration, all about the actor, not the character.  That’s what I’ve been saying, Boseman the actor, his portrayal, was made to be greater than the character itself. Feige in this is praising Boseman, not the character.  And the fact he believes the franchise can go in without the character speaks volumes to him and others not seeing the character as necessary to its future success.  That’s a problem.  If they did, they would’ve recasted.

the proof is in the actions.  They are going ahead with Black Panther without...the Black Panther.  But hey, since anyone can be the Black Panther, I suppose it doesn’t matter

https://www.superherohype.com/movies/490421-kevin-feige-says-tchalla-wont-be-recast-for-black-panther-2

Brethren.

They're GOING TO BRING T'CHALLA BACK. No matter WHAT they're saying right now. Because? Nobody who stays in business says NO to a MULTIBILLION DOLLAR FRANCHISE. Especially because if they don't keep T'Challa poppin? The OTHER studios...who all stood at attention when BP broke all the barriers and records, who lust after creating such success for themselves [ DCEU is already testing the waters with a "light brown not yet Black" safe bet in The Rock/Dwayne Johnson's BLACK ADAM ]...will leap upon this multibillion dollar dropped ball from Marvel and run with it.

If we trust in nothing else from the racist House of Mouse? Trust in their greed.

T'Challa will be back. Literally BANK on it.

Except for one thing.  They’re not saying no to a multi billion dollar franchise.  They’re still going forward with a multi billion dollar franchise...just without T’Challa.  To them, to Feige, T’Challa is not necessarily the “multi billion dollar franchise”...Wakanda is.  If they actually believed the character was the franchise, they’d recast him. They’re not going to.  I know we on this board believe T’Challa IS the franchise, but a lot of people outside of here, including now Disney apparently, believes otherwise.  Believes the character can be laid to rest with Boseman and the franchise, the still VERY BLACK, VERY AFRAKAN, franchise can go on with Shuri or whomever in TChalla’s place and all the other “rich, varied characters” that make up Wakanda. That’s what’s being done.   The studios have spoken.

Will T’Challa be back if a new iteration of the MCU happens a generation or so from now?  Maybe.  But for now, they’re going ahead with the franchise without him.  Unless the numbers are SO TERRIBLE for this sequel without TChalla that it forces them to think otherwise...

Sharing my post from the CBR so people know where I stand

Quote from: Ezyo1000

Heres the thing, and don't take this the wrong way as in just explaining my own opinion.  It's like I said, there are people who don't understand, not truly, WHY Black Panther resonated so well. People read about or see images of kids and grown adults at the theater in tears when watching black panther and they don't fully grasp the magnitude of how important this franchise is to people if you haven't experienced it first hand what it's like to see yourself represented like that.

I remember as a kid I used to wish I was white sometimes just so that I could feel that same feeling my friends who were white felt when they saw Spiderman, Batman, superman, and pretty much any hero or just character in general doing cool sh*t who also looked like them.

When you have it all the time it's easy to, well take it for granted. I'm not a long time Black Panther fan, I actually didn't learn about the character till I was browsing online one day in 2014 and happened upon him and then started researching him. Instantly I was intrigued and immediately after reading his wiki page I started looking online for any Black Panther comics I could get my hands on to buy. I couldn't believe that such a character existed.

I became an instant fan. So while I haven't waited my entire life to see BP specifically on sense of following his comics, I have been waiting my entire life to see a character who is truly one I want to aspire to be like.

This is more than just seeing him go to war with atlantis or joining the Avengers, or interacting with certain characters. This is about seeing T'Challa the man who from his franchise comes from a fantastical place, change it for the better, he is a King among kings, a warrior among warriors the GOAT.

And it's about exploring this character, who has a ton of history and importance behind HIM, as he was the one who was holding his franchise together, now as a fan and a person who's waited for such a character, have that taken away.

First there's the tragedy of a truly wonderful person, I don't get star struck or really care to meet any celebrities but Chad was one of very few on my list, but then also by this idea that there can only be one Black person occupying a certain space. Chadwick talked about that, wanting to break that mindset. But now exactly what he was working hard to break has just happened.

The a Black male led franchise with the potential (we already seen what it can do) to hit Spiderman, Batman, Superman, and Bond  levels of success and household recognition, had had that very rare spot removed and it's going to try and split it between characters that frankly don't have any sort of weight behind them.

The one with the most, is M'Baku and he is nothing like his comic counterpart. They are trying to say Wakanda is bigger than T'Challa, he becomes a footnote in his own franchise while they try and make it work without any real Established.. anything to go off. Be it comics or even he MCU itself.

Every actor will always be compared to their predecessor when playing characters like T'Challa or Peter. That's just how it is, but at the same time none of these characters are beholden to any actor.

Chadwick realised how important T'Challa was to people. You don't need to see an interview with his spoon feeding it to know this, actions speak louder that words. When he talks about all my children and how his characters backstory, he could of kept quiet and got paid, instead he fought for change and more than stereotypes, he got fired but that led to his successor MBJ to get the character with  better foundation and depth to him which led him to success.

In 42 Chad studied Robinson videos to see how he moved and slid into bases so he could get it right, and argued with the directors about how the stunt double wasn't sliding how Robinson did in real life and they agreed to let him do it himself. For Black panther he fought to not have Wakandan speaking with a British accent and was willing to walk away if they didn't relent. He turned down endorsements that he felt would hurt T'Challas positive image for young kid's.

He's done all of that worked so hard.. do you think he would really be cool with T'Challa dieing with him? After all that work? To rob people of that feeling they had wheb they left the theater for the the solo movie? Straight up, Disney f*cked up. This announcement was in bad taste. They waited less than 4 months after his passing and announced not only are they going to start filming next year but T'Challas out.

Under honoring a character Chad fought hard to get to the big screen. No ones allowed to play the character. Sure it sounds nice when they pretty up the words but they have just said that this character is not important enough to continue and what he brings to the table isn't worth exploring. They say they want to Honor Chad while ignoring WHAT Chad was doing which was setting this character up for others to continue what he started and continue to inspire millions like he did.

You say they love the rich culture.. but not the Character, the Man who inspires greatness, the KING who inspired that greatness. Name another black hero that even matches up to T'Challas stature. No drugs, no baby mamas no gangs, or pimps, a good man with a good heart. People love Cap Because he represents american values. Well people love T'Challa Because he represents Black excellence and they took that character away from us because hey wanted to rush announcements and not let people have time (fans and the crew alike) to properly mourn

Beautiful post.  But here’s the thing: they’re gonna ask you why a black woman, or Shuri in particular, can’t do the same or similar thing for you.  Why can’t a black woman be the Black Panther and why is that unacceptable to you? (or me) when hey, it already happened in the comics anyway?  And don’t black girls need heroes too?

My point that some have been arguing against earlier is that despite however way we see it, a lot of time and energy was given to T’Challa’s supporting cast, to the detriment of TChalla I still believe. Especially the women.  Not entirely surprising, as I remember people on here complaining that Aneka and Ayo in Coates run was given too much time along with other supporting cast in the comic.  My point is, many people are not gonna be robbed of that feeling as you say because Wakanda and all the other characters in it will continue and while they liked or loved TChalla, they can invision the franchise continuing without him with his sister, Okoye, and all these other “rich, varied” characters that they like.  As some online are saying, “anyone can be the black Panther!”  So what’s the problem?  A woman can’t be Black Panther? 

I literally had a guy tell me I must hate black women because I didn’t want to see Shuri replace TChalla as the Black Panther. Seriously. 

In another sense?  For certain writers like Vita Ayala and other younger, feminist, woke crowd members, this is an opportunity to give Wakanda the black feminist woke slant they’ve been trying to create and write in the franchise for a while now.  And if you speak out against it you’ll be accused of not supporting black women when they’ve always supported you.  It’s like a playbook at this point.  Boseman is dead, out of respect let TChalla die with him and let his sister, who created his suit anyway, and who took the mantle in the comics (always thought that was a mistake too) take the role.  Why would you be against that?  (Hypothetical to make a point question)

I honestly saw this coming because I do believe the movie and the comics themselves for years were making the culture of Wakanda and the surrounding cast in it as big if not bigger than TChalla..  Boseman’s death has just sped up the process.  And with the rise of black women in media, business, and even the White House (Kamala to them is a black or at least brown woman and she’s been getting praised as such) they will feel this is timely.  Hypothetical question again:  why can’t you get the same feeling with Shuri as BP that you did with TChalla?  And don’t black girls need heroes too? 

I don't find an argument with Black Panther being T'Challa's story, his movie and yes his franchise. While one of his pertinent skill sets were transplanted to another character, everything was centered around T'Challa the Black Panther. Shuri was T'Challa's sister; Killmonger was T'Challa's enemy; Nakia was T'Challa's love interest; Okoye was T'Challa's general and Wakanda was T'Challa's home. No other way to cut it. There is or was so much to build upon.

Shuri wasn’t just T’Challa’s sister, she was also Wakanda’s lead scientist in tech and was made responsible for most of if not all of Wakanda’s advances. Also the one who designed his suit and was made to look like she knew more about handling it than he did. Okoye wasn’t just his general, she was made to look like she was his teacher by guiding him in ways (don’t freeze) and having nearly as much on screen fighting and action as he did. And Wakanda isn’t JUST T’Challa’s home, it’s all of their home...even Killmonger’s by right of royal decree being part of the actual family. You’re right, there is so much to build upon that doesn’t necessarily need T’Challa to do so because all of these other characters have so much to work with without him. Which is exactly what the MCU is going forward with.

Iron Man got three solo films and primary roles in four Avengers films; was the main antagonist in a Captain America film; and had a prominent outing in the first Spider-man movie and was hero worshiped in the second. Same basically applies to Cap and Thor sans the Spidey movies. And yet none of their solo films had greater cultural impact nor made as much at the box office as Black Panther. T'Challa  proved himself in a very big way on his first solo outing and yet somehow he's superfluous? Really, not really. The push to replace T'Challa has little to nothing to do with any supporting character being bigger than T'Challa.

of course the movie had a greater cultural impact overall because the movie was as much about an entire advanced African nation and it’s people than it was about the protagonist. “Wakanda forever” isn’t about T’Challa, it’s about the entire nation and all in it. Black women particularly, and people in general, went to see characters like Shuri and the Dora Milaje just as much, if not moreso, than they went to see T’Challa.  Iron Man focused on Iron Man, he didn’t have his little sister responsible for his suit or all of the tech in Stark Industries, or lecturing him on how “everything can be improved”. He didn’t have a cabal of warriors and a general who was fighting and in the action almost as much as he was. Black Panther was as much about the surrounding family and characters and nation as it was about T’Challa when it should have been the other way around. Which is why they feel they can make the next movie without him. No one would’ve made “Iron Man 2” without Tony Stark.  Yet they feel these other characters can carry the movie without T’Challa because Wakanda, with or without T’Challa, is still of interest. How does that not make him superfluous?



Other super heroes have had far worst done to them than the migration of some of their talents to their supporting cast. Nolan's Batman trilogy is a good example of the gutting a character. Batman didn't show any complex fighting abilities; no detective skills nor escape artistry; no master of disguise nor tactical or strategic acumen. He was basically a brute and the Joker told him such. Lets again be clear, Ledger's Joker simply outclassed Batman while Jordan's Killmonger simply held a righteous indignation over T'Challa's head. And yet there is no cry for the non-necessity of Bruce Wayne aka the Batman. He just keeps getting recast and having different iterations presented.

As you’ve stated before, Batman has had decades of development and advances in his storytelling in movies, cartoons, and comics, so a weak showing by him doesn’t hurt as much, but in the end he was still the focus of heroism in the Nolan movies.  Outside of the villains, he didn’t share as much time with supporting characters that were as dynamic and colorful and skilled as everyone from Shuri to the Doras to Okoye to Nakia was. Gordon and Lucius were not a part of the action in the ways those characters were.  I agree that Batman in the Nolan trilogy was a weak Batman, but he was still the focus.  Plus, Batman at this point is Batman.  The world outside of the comics was just getting to know T’Challa 

Its like T'Challa is being penalized for having well developed three dimensional supporting characters that didn't rely on gimmicks or sex to prove their worth. Again to show who was the center piece let look at the following. Shuri's BP suit while having the advantage of easy storage and kinetic energy discharge was easily disrupted by sonic stabilizers due to its nanite design. T'Challa's design may not have this vulnerability. Not to mention T'Challa figured out that design flaw not Shuri.

T’Challa isn’t being penalized for this, the makers of the movie are. And in the end, it doesn’t matter if T’Challa figured out a design flaw in Shuri’s BP suit in a singular moment in the movie...the over arching theme is that she invented the suit and she is responsible for the advances in tech in Wakanda, not T’Challa.  T’Challa’s design “may not” have had this design flaw but we never got to see that.  Of course, none of this would matter if it was shown that T’Challa himself invented the BP suit and was the one majorly responsible for the recent advances in tech in Wakanda. No one is arguing with Stark about his suit because he and he alone invented it and evolved it.  This is made very clear in his movies.

Okoye could be the greatest warrior while T'Challa was thought to be dead by Nakia. However what we saw was Okoye and three Dora Milaje loose their fight with Killmonger as did the Nakia and Shuri tag team. It was T'Challa who beat Killmonger by himself. As far as activism is concerned, it was T'Challa who bought the buildings in Oakland to set up the tech exchange and social outreach. And again it was T'Challa who spoke before the world assembly at the UN on global unity. This is the genius of Coogler's Black Panther... its subtlety.

Didn’t Shuri help T’Challa in his fight with Killmonger by starting the trains up or something like that?  I remember him telling her to turn something on during the fight.  And yes, T’Challa bought the buildings in Oakland and set these things up after being shamed by Nakia for not doing more and as a reaction to what his father did to Killmonger. The character is reacting to what others are showing him when he should already be informed and acting on these things due to his awareness and intelligence about the world.


The debilitating aspects of T'Challa the Black Panther that often go unmentioned occurred in Civil War and Infinity War. It was in these two films where we see T'Challa's ineffectiveness as protector and poor judgement as a king. The former resulted in King T'Caka's death not to mention the capture and release of Zemo ... the man responsible. The latter sees Wakanda being invaded by a hoard of aliens. What kind of king invites a galactic threat to his doorstep and jeopardizes his people and their nation to save an android's personality?

Have to agree with you on most of this, but I think the overall thing in those movies is that he “looked cool” and was not outshined in any way by his supporting cast, especially in Civil War, since they were not yet present.