Author Topic: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP  (Read 19517 times)

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« on: June 04, 2012, 05:47:53 am »
DAVID EVANS:

Reggie,
 
The following are some thoughts about those critics who are more interested in disrupting President Obama’s programs/policies than long-term solutions to the nation’s problems.
 
Best regards,
 
 
 
Dave
___________________________________________________________________
 
There is a difference between “The Ship of State” and the “state of the Ship.”
 
The Ship of State is 236 years old and has survived a Civil War in which nearly three-quarters of a million citizens died, the Great Depression when the unemployment rate ran as high as 25% and World War II.  Even so, our venerable and enduring Ship held its course and our country emerged from all those calamities as arguably the greatest nation in the history of the world.
 
On the other hand, the state of the Ship is an on-going and short-term assessment of national politics, economics, employment, citizen interaction, etc., etc.  “The Ship of State” and “state of the Ship” have the exact same letters, but the one must not be confused with the other, lest political slogans and short-term fixes be confused with long-term solutions.
 
 “The Ship of State” is presently riding out a storm and some short-sighted individuals ignore our history and describe the current “state of the Ship” as irreparably damaged.  They ignore (or conveniently forget) how the old vessel, although tossed and battered, prevailed at Valley Forge and Gettysburg, through soup lines in the 1930s, amidst the shock of Pearl Harbor, across the Beaches at Normandy and it sailed ever forward despite the heavy prices paid for victories at Iwo Jima and Okinawa.
 
Perhaps we should remind them that, when a storm rages, it is not wise to replace the crew with sailors who bring more panic or antagonism to the task than seamanship.  By frightening the passengers and exhibiting behavior that verges on mutiny, such sailors will often demand that the captain sail back or forward to some imagined or politically constructed port that, frankly, never really existed.
 
The 2010 election sent such a “crew of sailors” to Congress and The Ship of State has since moved with fits and starts—to the detriment of all.  Imagine what might have happened to the country had the 1862 national election sent a similar majority to Washington more interested in obstructing Lincoln than winning the war.  Moreover, would the nation have emerged from the Great Depression had the voters sent hundreds of bitter conservatives to Congress in 1934 to thwart FDR’s many social programs?  Try to contemplate our fate in World War II if a majority of those elected to Congress in 1940 and 1942 had been affiliates of the “America First Committee” or the “Keep America Out of the War Committee.”
 
Incidentally, war-time helmsmen Abraham Lincoln and Franklin D. Roosevelt were allowed to steer The Ship of State for a second term.  Our country and the world are the better because 148 and 78 years ago Americans realized that the state of the Ship is not the same as The Ship of State and re-elected Lincoln and Roosevelt.

Offline Battle

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 12:53:15 pm »
Strong analogy!

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2012, 07:58:23 am »
DAVID EVANS:
Moreover, would the nation have emerged from the Great Depression had the voters sent hundreds of bitter conservatives to Congress in 1934 to thwart FDR’s many social programs?


Absolutely, YES.  FDR's policies prolonged the Great Depression.

Seems that Popeye must have been smokin' somethin' in his corn cob other than tobacco, when he wrote his rhetorical question.


         "FDR just needs to put mucilage on the fuselage!"
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2012, 09:27:39 am »
FDR is the greatest American President.  Not that you would agree, Mike, but just stating it. 

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 07:44:05 am »
Reginald, I couldn't agree with you more ... errr, the first clause of your second sentence, that is. Haha.  ;)

FDR's policies did not end the Great Depression. WWII and the post-War boom did.

Some economists have concluded that FDR's economic policies made things much worse.

FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx

How Government Prolonged the Depression
Policies that decreased competition in product and labor markets were especially destructive.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123353276749137485.html

Not to mention Roosevelt's indifference to the plight of Jewish refugees (turning many away and denying entry to more), his indifference to the extermination of the Jews of Europe, his refusal to bomb the railroad tracks to the Nazi Death Camps, etc. He also interned American citizens of Japanese ancestry solely on the basis of their race. But not Italian-Americans or German-Americans.

Roosevelt was a good public speaker, I'll give him credit for that. He also didn't capitulate to Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Though to a meaningful degree he did to the Soviet Union. He was also far too lax in permitting the infiltration of his Administration by stooges of Stalin (which directly affected America's Soviet policy, after the war America's China policy, as well as other policies). With effects then, and to this day.

He started the ball rolling on the expansion of the Central State and the undermining of the Constitution as a document intended to limit the centralization of power.

He was President during dramatic times. We don't know how another man would have faired. Some could have done much better, some much worse.  In my opinion.  
« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 08:11:46 am by michaelintp »
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 07:28:35 pm »
World War ONE proves you wrong. After World War ONE America was number one at the concluding peace conference in Paris of the year 1919. 70%, America was in the same position immediately after World War ONE as it was during post World War TWO. Woodrow Wilson, who re-segregated the American Post Office in America, tried to be a leader to the world and failed miserably. 25 years later, FDR would show the world real global leadership.

One glaring difference is how America treated veterans. After World War ONE they were kicked out of Washington DC by the Republican sweetheart General Douglas MacArthur. After World War TWO veterans were given access to the socialist GI Bill, created by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 09:42:53 pm »
Roosevelt was dead before World War II ended, and thus he provided no global leadership after the war. Before that, he and his negotiators handed over Eastern Europe to the Soviet Union.

Furthermore, it is unfair to attribute the GI Bill to Roosevelt, as if he were its creator. The American Legion designed the main features of what became the Serviceman’s Readjustment Act and pushed it through Congress. The bill unanimously passed both chambers of Congress in the spring of 1944. See http://www.ourdocuments.gov/doc.php?flash=true&doc=76  

Harry W. Colmery, a former national commander of the American Legion and former Republican National Chairman, is credited with drawing up the first draft of the GI Bill. It was introduced in the House on Jan. 10, 1944, and in the Senate the following day. Both chambers approved their own versions of the bill.

But the struggle was just heating up. The bill almost died when Senate and House members came together to debate their versions. Both groups agreed on the education and home loan benefits, but were deadlocked on the unemployment provision.

Ultimately, Rep. John Gibson of Georgia was rushed in to cast the tie-breaking vote. The Senate approved the final form of the bill on June 12, and the House followed on June 13. President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed it into law on June 22, 1944.

See http://www.gibill.va.gov/benefits/history_timeline/index.html

« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 04:42:22 pm by michaelintp »
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 11:08:02 pm »
What impresses me is what effective propagandists Roosevelt and his allies were. So many people swallowed their hype and still do to this day.  Even Popeye the Sailor Man, author of the article that Reginald shared above. 
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2012, 12:35:33 am »
Another point about Roosevelt's success:
Roosevelt did not believe in Trickle Down wealth
Roosevelt promoted the All Around health
The Middle Class grew exponentially.

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2012, 12:42:19 am »
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.

The funny thing is that it was Roosevelt who saved the Hatfields and McCoys.
The sad thing is that Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964
Take a look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1956.
Now look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1964
Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Offline Battle

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2012, 02:11:09 am »
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.

The funny thing is that it was Roosevelt who saved the Hatfields and McCoys.
The sad thing is that Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964
Take a look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1956.
Now look at the Blue-State/Red-State map of 1964
Hillbilly Republican Logic.







I wouldn't have done that...   ...run to michaelintp's defense, that is.  I'm still convinced that he's a draft-dodging, cheap-ass lawyer stereotype who thinks people respects his waning wsp here at HEF.



Also, consider that President Roosevelt (like President Lincoln) was chosen & elected during a time when America was at its very worse state in the 20th century (Great Depression, World War II) just as America was at its very worse in the 19th century (American Civil War).
FDR's leadership created an indelible image that  encouraged Americans to be more motivated in their endeavors: An old man in a wheelchair making calls from the highest political office in the Nation giving you the impression that if he can do it, you can do it, too.  It off started with his campaign song, "Happy Days Are Here Again"  and the words[paraphrasing], "...You [Americans] have  nothing to fear but fear itself." which helped build moral tremendously when Americans were feeling at thier worse. His presidential election was a success!
FDR stayed in contact with Americans through 'social media'  with "fireside chat" radio addresses that set the standard that President Obama follows utilizing all forms of social media today (internet, radio, television, etc) to keep Americans informed. Think of FDR's leadership style sort of like Professor Xavier from the X-Men.



This is the leadership quality that the current political opposition lacks.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 02:16:39 pm by Battle »

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 06:49:24 am »
Of course you will say that your uncle died in WWII and I will say so what and EVERYONE will run to the defense of your hapless theories of perfection and kick me out. Wondering after 2012, as they did after after 2010, why they are so dominated by Hillbilly Republican Logic.
I wouldn't have done that...   ...run to michaelintp's defense, that is.  I'm still convinced that he's a draft-dodging, cheap-ass lawyer stereo-type who thinks people respects his waning wsp here at HEF.

I know, Tanksleyd, I too am so tired of people constantly running to my defense on the Hudlin Entertainment Forum. I can understand how all of this moral and intellectual support that I am constantly given has become quite tiresome to those who disagree with me on any topic.  :P

I agree that Roosevelt was a good propagandist and a good public speaker who used the Media well.
 
I hope some of the factual information that I shared, above, about the Great Depression and the GI Bill, is of interest. I found it interesting. As to the other issues I mentioned, I stand by my view that Roosevelt had some problems in what he did that disqualify him from being our "greatest" President.  Of course if ones primary criteria is the initiation of income redistribution, well then, I understand why Roosevelt is placed on your pedestal. Anyway, who cares about Roosevelt. I don't, not all that much, anyway.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 10:04:21 am by michaelintp »
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2012, 07:08:51 am »
In spite of your Hillbilly Republican Logic Franklin Delano Roosevelt was America's favorite and most elected president.

Republicans, using Hillbilly Republican Logic and fearing Roosevelt's popularity which can also be measured in how long Democrats held congress after his death, pushed through term limits. So funny that the next/first/only person affected by those limits was Ronald Reagan.

Soon though Americans will realize that it is not Trickle Down wealth but All Around health that made America great. The wheelchair president understood quite well that: "To support the least of us, elevates the whole of us" (TM).

BTW: Rural America LOVED socialist Roosevelt Democrats until July 2, 1964.

PS: It seems that Battle remembers your salvation quite well.
I merely remember Hillbilly Republican Logic.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 08:42:47 am by Tanksleyd »

Offline Tanksleyd

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2012, 07:46:30 am »
Linda Tripp for instance, is an excellent example of Hillbilly Republican Logic.

Offline michaelintp

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Re: THE SHIP OF STATE AND THE STATE OF THE SHIP
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2012, 07:52:03 am »
In the spirit of the hour, pursuant to new regulations, I've got corn cobb pipes available to distribute to all. Oh, excuse me, I mean Meerschaums. ;D  I'll be standing right next to the sign with the big green cross.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2012, 07:59:31 am by michaelintp »
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6