Author Topic: What If? Priest continued writing Panther  (Read 60609 times)

Offline Yaw

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2006, 12:44:36 pm »

I think we're not actually taking into account the WHOLE CONCEPT of this particular arc.This isn't the "Panther is a villain" arc,it's Panther's descent into darkness,his struggle,and his noble and epic,triumphant ascendance to a point higher and greater than ever before.

I guess you make a point here.  We don't really know how the descent into darkness would go down.  From what I gathered, my thoughts were that he makes Panther and actual villain without the sense that he is really good.  For example, you propose that he may be thought of as being bad from an outsider's perspective whereas his intentions still merit some sense of nobility.  Well I do not know what PRiest actually intended (neither do you) but I assumed it would be alot more than that.  I mean Priest already took Panther down the road of "U.S> thinks Panther is a bad guy."  That is what STurm un Drang and Enemy of the STate II were about.  In those arcs his acts are often misinterpreted as the actions of an mad tyrant.  Thus it would seem to me that PRiest this time would actually make T'challa go literally crazy and start effing ish up with some crazy Wakanda technology.  Like we would literally see California go byebye or some sh*t.  At any rate I see your point and i would have to say that I guess if done properly it would be so bad.  Nevertheless you have to forgive me if I don't have much faith in Priest.  In 49 issues of T'Challa he's on a continual downward slope never coming up for air.  BP as MAcBeth wasn't a fun story for me. I have nothing against Black tragedies. Just don't give it to me 1 a month over several years.  That is enough to make a brother go crazy for real.

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2006, 02:00:42 pm »

I think we're not actually taking into account the WHOLE CONCEPT of this particular arc.This isn't the "Panther is a villain" arc,it's Panther's descent into darkness,his struggle,and his noble and epic,triumphant ascendance to a point higher and greater than ever before.

I guess you make a point here.  We don't really know how the descent into darkness would go down.  From what I gathered, my thoughts were that he makes Panther and actual villain without the sense that he is really good.  For example, you propose that he may be thought of as being bad from an outsider's perspective whereas his intentions still merit some sense of nobility.  Well I do not know what PRiest actually intended (neither do you) but I assumed it would be alot more than that.  I mean Priest already took Panther down the road of "U.S> thinks Panther is a bad guy."  That is what STurm un Drang and Enemy of the STate II were about.  In those arcs his acts are often misinterpreted as the actions of an mad tyrant.  Thus it would seem to me that PRiest this time would actually make T'challa go literally crazy and start effing ish up with some crazy Wakanda technology.  Like we would literally see California go byebye or some sh*t.  At any rate I see your point and i would have to say that I guess if done properly it would be so bad.  Nevertheless you have to forgive me if I don't have much faith in Priest.  In 49 issues of T'Challa he's on a continual downward slope never coming up for air.  BP as MAcBeth wasn't a fun story for me. I have nothing against Black tragedies. Just don't give it to me 1 a month over several years.  That is enough to make a brother go crazy for real.

Hahahaha,the MacBeth thing was HILARIOUS,dawg...and clever.And I think I can see where you were going on this one and the points you're making.In regards to his intentions about BP and his dementia,PRIEST gives an overview of his perspectives about the issue and the behind-the-scenes issues that impacted his decision-making.His take on the issue is interesting if not outright dazzling,and much of what I thought he was trying to do.You can peep it out on his website,under the overview he gives for DEATH OF THE BLACK PANTHER.The anuerysm isn't the sole and main cause of his temporary and near descent into full dementia,but instead it's like Donald Blake's cane,the literal and metaphorical "thorn in his flesh".I tried to copy and paste the whole thing here,but I couldn't do it.Reading PRIEST's words about the matter should bring a wholly different perspective on the issue.

Ummm...it was my understanding that after #49,PRIEST was still writing of Panther,but the emphasis had shifted to Kasper Cole as he went through his travails and eventually became a neophyte in the Panther religion.White Tiger,I think it was.This is very much like a combination of what the market pressures required--some radical shift to hopefully inspire sales--and very much in keeping with how he envisioned BP since his very first story arc,which resulted in the first TPB wherein he grapples with Achebe and Mephisto.BP was withdrawn altogether from the reader and given a mystery,a mangic,a brilliance that kept everyone around him guessing.Very clearly it's shown through direct interactions between BP and Kasper as well as indirect means that BP is the one driving the entire set of circumstances surrounding KASPER,so of course PRIEST was still writing BP,lol...in the same sense that,say,a story arc in the XMEN focusing on say...BEAST is still an XMEN book,just one of the lesser known X-members has a spotlight on him/her.The goings on and interactions of the other XMEN will have an intimate impact on the actions of BEAST,and PANTHER would of course have the most signal impact on KASPER.The whole idea of THE CREW and KASPER was da bizzness,and I really hoped that they would've been given a chance,but that was not to be...
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Offline Ed

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2006, 07:16:20 pm »
There was a sale at my comic book store and I bought ten issues of The Crew for a dollar altogether, so I could give to some friends you know what I mean. I really wished they would have waited before ending that series.

I kinda of agree with everyone else. It would not send good messages to African-American youth to see another strong African man  lose everything and have the world turn against him. Still, I would like to see that happen to a character. Maybe Hawkeye or Gambit.Priest should write one of those characters, that would be cool.

Offline BlackRodimus

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2006, 09:15:32 am »
I just found this at http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=19379.  This is from PRiest himself.

Quote
As I mention in another thread, the logical progression for PANTHER would have been to turn him into a villain. To make Storm's prophecy come true and make him an enormous threat to the world.

Only to be redeemed in the end, of course.

The Once & Future King story had implications of this, including a bit I ripped off of Jack "King" Kirby's fabulous "Pact" from NEW GODS. King T'Challa has two kids, T'Charra and Faida (named after my friend, actress Oni Faida Lamphley: the woman shot in the head in the pilot episode of Homicide: Life On The Streets, and more recently seen as a spiteful police lieutenant on the CBS show Hack).

Faida was Malice's daughter (implying Malice is either now pregnant or has already given birth to T'Challa's daughter, something we were going to deal with in PANTHER), while T'Charra's parentage was not revealed (but, c'mon, who else could it be).

Had I continued on PANTHER, I would have explored the whole villain thing, married T'Challa off to Storm (it would not have worked out long-term, but it would help redeem Panther), and evolved the business of Panther's children (and the complex relationship between Ross and Monica).


So what are your thoughts on what could have been Panther?


Kinda disappointed and shocked Priest would have thought this up. I mean its working so well for Iron Man at the moment, right?

Its all about context...while he would have done the whole villain who becomes redeemed and a better hero in the long term, fandom would just remember him as that black dude who went evil. Heck they still refer to Ant Man as that wife beater, wouldn't it be 10 times worse for Black Panther?  The whole marriage thing is already like cutting on a light switch, reveals how some fans REALLY feel about Black Panther ("She married to that nobody???" seems to be prevelant to the haters), last thing they would have needed was some sort of confirmation with this storyline.

Glad it didn't happen.
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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2006, 09:24:27 am »
I just found this at http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=19379.  This is from PRiest himself.

Quote
As I mention in another thread, the logical progression for PANTHER would have been to turn him into a villain. To make Storm's prophecy come true and make him an enormous threat to the world.

Only to be redeemed in the end, of course.

The Once & Future King story had implications of this, including a bit I ripped off of Jack "King" Kirby's fabulous "Pact" from NEW GODS. King T'Challa has two kids, T'Charra and Faida (named after my friend, actress Oni Faida Lamphley: the woman shot in the head in the pilot episode of Homicide: Life On The Streets, and more recently seen as a spiteful police lieutenant on the CBS show Hack).

Faida was Malice's daughter (implying Malice is either now pregnant or has already given birth to T'Challa's daughter, something we were going to deal with in PANTHER), while T'Charra's parentage was not revealed (but, c'mon, who else could it be).

Had I continued on PANTHER, I would have explored the whole villain thing, married T'Challa off to Storm (it would not have worked out long-term, but it would help redeem Panther), and evolved the business of Panther's children (and the complex relationship between Ross and Monica).


So what are your thoughts on what could have been Panther?


Kinda disappointed and shocked Priest would have thought this up. I mean its working so well for Iron Man at the moment, right?

Its all about context...while he would have done the whole villain who becomes redeemed and a better hero in the long term, fandom would just remember him as that black dude who went evil. Heck they still refer to Ant Man as that wife beater, wouldn't it be 10 times worse for Black Panther?  The whole marriage thing is already like cutting on a light switch, reveals how some fans REALLY feel about Black Panther ("She married to that nobody???" seems to be prevelant to the haters), last thing they would have needed was some sort of confirmation with this storyline.

Glad it didn't happen.



From that perjspective,I can really see where you're coming from,BpStorm4ever,that argument makes a lotta sense.But i think that IM will pull out of this CIVIL WAR  thing alright,I do...BUT that's a whole different ballgame from the perspective of the majority White fans looking at BP,ya know? I think that you're right...the majority of fans would remember BP for being temporarily opposed to their most ardently supported heroes for the most part...and yeah,that would be fatal to BP because he's both a "fringe" character trying to go serously mainstream (during PRIEST's run) AND he's Black.

But these concerns are OUTSIDE of the story itself.These concerns are ANCILLARY to the story itself that PRIEST was plotting.That would have been a GOOD STORY...but your concerns I think would have probably been the damning and final issue.Which says alot about the demographics and tastes dominant in the comicbook readership...not about PRIEST'S writing ability or about BP.
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Offline BlackRodimus

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2006, 09:32:59 am »
I just found this at http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=19379.  This is from PRiest himself.

Quote
As I mention in another thread, the logical progression for PANTHER would have been to turn him into a villain. To make Storm's prophecy come true and make him an enormous threat to the world.

Only to be redeemed in the end, of course.

The Once & Future King story had implications of this, including a bit I ripped off of Jack "King" Kirby's fabulous "Pact" from NEW GODS. King T'Challa has two kids, T'Charra and Faida (named after my friend, actress Oni Faida Lamphley: the woman shot in the head in the pilot episode of Homicide: Life On The Streets, and more recently seen as a spiteful police lieutenant on the CBS show Hack).

Faida was Malice's daughter (implying Malice is either now pregnant or has already given birth to T'Challa's daughter, something we were going to deal with in PANTHER), while T'Charra's parentage was not revealed (but, c'mon, who else could it be).

Had I continued on PANTHER, I would have explored the whole villain thing, married T'Challa off to Storm (it would not have worked out long-term, but it would help redeem Panther), and evolved the business of Panther's children (and the complex relationship between Ross and Monica).


So what are your thoughts on what could have been Panther?


Kinda disappointed and shocked Priest would have thought this up. I mean its working so well for Iron Man at the moment, right?

Its all about context...while he would have done the whole villain who becomes redeemed and a better hero in the long term, fandom would just remember him as that black dude who went evil. Heck they still refer to Ant Man as that wife beater, wouldn't it be 10 times worse for Black Panther?  The whole marriage thing is already like cutting on a light switch, reveals how some fans REALLY feel about Black Panther ("She married to that nobody???" seems to be prevelant to the haters), last thing they would have needed was some sort of confirmation with this storyline.

Glad it didn't happen.



From that perjspective,I can really see where you're coming from,BpStorm4ever,that argument makes a lotta sense.But i think that IM will pull out of this CIVIL WAR  thing alright,I do...BUT that's a whole different ballgame from the perspective of the majority White fans looking at BP,ya know? I think that you're right...the majority of fans would remember BP for being temporarily opposed to their most ardently supported heroes for the most part...and yeah,that would be fatal to BP because he's both a "fringe" character trying to go serously mainstream (during PRIEST's run) AND he's Black.

But these concerns are OUTSIDE of the story itself.These concerns are ANCILLARY to the story itself that PRIEST was plotting.That would have been a GOOD STORY...but your concerns I think would have probably been the damning and final issue.Which says alot about the demographics and tastes dominant in the comicbook readership...not about PRIEST'S writing ability or about BP.


You're right of course, and at least that takes away my "disappointed and shocked" aspect. :D But I'm still glad it didn't happen. Sometimes you gotta ask not if a story should be done, but should it. And Priest answered that question (or editoral) and thus it never happened.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2006, 10:19:55 am »
I just found this at http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=19379.  This is from PRiest himself.

Quote
As I mention in another thread, the logical progression for PANTHER would have been to turn him into a villain. To make Storm's prophecy come true and make him an enormous threat to the world.

Only to be redeemed in the end, of course.

The Once & Future King story had implications of this, including a bit I ripped off of Jack "King" Kirby's fabulous "Pact" from NEW GODS. King T'Challa has two kids, T'Charra and Faida (named after my friend, actress Oni Faida Lamphley: the woman shot in the head in the pilot episode of Homicide: Life On The Streets, and more recently seen as a spiteful police lieutenant on the CBS show Hack).

Faida was Malice's daughter (implying Malice is either now pregnant or has already given birth to T'Challa's daughter, something we were going to deal with in PANTHER), while T'Charra's parentage was not revealed (but, c'mon, who else could it be).

Had I continued on PANTHER, I would have explored the whole villain thing, married T'Challa off to Storm (it would not have worked out long-term, but it would help redeem Panther), and evolved the business of Panther's children (and the complex relationship between Ross and Monica).


So what are your thoughts on what could have been Panther?


Kinda disappointed and shocked Priest would have thought this up. I mean its working so well for Iron Man at the moment, right?

Its all about context...while he would have done the whole villain who becomes redeemed and a better hero in the long term, fandom would just remember him as that black dude who went evil. Heck they still refer to Ant Man as that wife beater, wouldn't it be 10 times worse for Black Panther?  The whole marriage thing is already like cutting on a light switch, reveals how some fans REALLY feel about Black Panther ("She married to that nobody???" seems to be prevelant to the haters), last thing they would have needed was some sort of confirmation with this storyline.

Glad it didn't happen.



From that perjspective,I can really see where you're coming from,BpStorm4ever,that argument makes a lotta sense.But i think that IM will pull out of this CIVIL WAR  thing alright,I do...BUT that's a whole different ballgame from the perspective of the majority White fans looking at BP,ya know? I think that you're right...the majority of fans would remember BP for being temporarily opposed to their most ardently supported heroes for the most part...and yeah,that would be fatal to BP because he's both a "fringe" character trying to go serously mainstream (during PRIEST's run) AND he's Black.

But these concerns are OUTSIDE of the story itself.These concerns are ANCILLARY to the story itself that PRIEST was plotting.That would have been a GOOD STORY...but your concerns I think would have probably been the damning and final issue.Which says alot about the demographics and tastes dominant in the comicbook readership...not about PRIEST'S writing ability or about BP.


You're right of course, and at least that takes away my "disappointed and shocked" aspect. :D But I'm still glad it didn't happen. Sometimes you gotta ask not if a story should be done, but should it. And Priest answered that question (or editoral) and thus it never happened.



Well said,well said.*daps BPSTORM4EVER*.But  iwanna see PRIEST do THE FALCON...
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Offline BlackRodimus

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2006, 10:25:31 am »
Quote from: supreme illuminati

Well said,well said.*daps BPSTORM4EVER*.But  iwanna see PRIEST do THE FALCON...

I was in a rush (probably shouldn't do this at work ;) ), and you got the gist of it anyway, but I think I still worded it wrong. Not IF it can be done, but SHOULD it be done at all. But you got it anyway. lol

And yeah, Priest on Falcon would be interesting. I'm curious as to his thoughts on the death of Goliath, too.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2006, 10:30:50 am by BPStorm4ever »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2006, 12:47:13 pm »
Quote from: supreme illuminati

Well said,well said.*daps BPSTORM4EVER*.But  iwanna see PRIEST do THE FALCON...

I was in a rush (probably shouldn't do this at work ;) ), and you got the gist of it anyway, but I think I still worded it wrong. Not IF it can be done, but SHOULD it be done at all. But you got it anyway. lol

And yeah, Priest on Falcon would be interesting. I'm curious as to his thoughts on the death of Goliath, too.

nice one,his thoughts on the death of Goliath...nice one.Now if we can get Zorro to return from the hills,we'll be alright...
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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2006, 01:01:03 pm »
i haven't read page 2 of this thread... but i just wanted to say that i am happy at how things turned out for Panther.

i dont think i was ready for EVIL Panther.

but i guess that means he survived his anuerism.


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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2006, 02:37:37 pm »
i haven't read page 2 of this thread... but i just wanted to say that i am happy at how things turned out for Panther.

i dont think i was ready for EVIL Panther.

but i guess that means he survived his anuerism.

Yep.The Bpizzle would either find a cure for the inoperable anuerism or operate despite of it...or maybe in this version of BP it either hasn't happened yet or it won't happen.We have to see what RH will do with it...personally,I'm in favor of a mystical cure.
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Offline JRCarter

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2006, 04:18:26 pm »

Well said,well said.*daps BPSTORM4EVER*.But  iwanna see PRIEST do THE FALCON...

There was almost a FALCON solo ongoing to replace CAPTAIN AMERICA AND THE FALCON.

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2006, 06:36:41 am »
Yep.The Bpizzle would either find a cure for the inoperable anuerism or operate despite of it...
Hell, he'd operate on himself, as no one else would be skilled enough. ;)

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2006, 01:09:58 pm »
Yep.The Bpizzle would either find a cure for the inoperable anuerism or operate despite of it...
Hell, he'd operate on himself, as no one else would be skilled enough. ;)

Hahaha,good point!!
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Offline kitamu Re

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Re: What If? Priest continued writing Panther
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2006, 08:40:09 pm »
Quote
As far as opening the way for a huge retcon well inadvertently he did.  Hudlin's run is proof of this.  In one sense I hate that a good chunk of Panther's history can't have existed but on the otherhand I glad that is doesn't.  Alot of things in this run wouldn't be possible if Priest's run were to be continued directly.  Personally I liked Priest's run up until the early 30s.  After that, blah.

I do agree that Hudlin's Panther needs some more obstacles in his life but whatever, the series is still relatively new.  I mean we started off with a Wakanda invasion but since, the threats have been relatively minimal in the sense that he could not get involved and not face imminent danger ( ie. Wild kingdom, Civil War) although he maybe affected by repercussions of the conflicts in the future. Nevertheless I find the degree to which Priest wanted to effectively destroy T'Challa to be somewhat excessive and wholly unnecessary.  It almost feels as if he doesn't like the character and to be honest looking at his run I don't believe he does but that is another story.

Priest does not understand that we want to be entertained with our comics..nobody wants to see their favorite character getting his ass kicked every month. I mean giving bp a brain anuerism was the stupidest thing he could have done. Is he saying BP can't win a fight. Priest is a grade A hack and marvel needs to keep him away from their products. I am glad hudlin understands what we want as customers.

1. no anuerisms
2. no BP getting his ass kicked in his own book
3. no bulsh*t kimg lear rip off stories
4. no BP turning villain
5. No BP losing the title of chieftain to killmonger in a fight he was supposed to WIN  ::)