Author Topic: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).  (Read 530645 times)

Offline Maxine Shaw

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1275 on: May 21, 2014, 08:47:40 pm »
Aside from the coded,  racial heckling the post-Hudlin writer's storytelling reveals, another viewpoint could be that here is this African American man who earns 1000 times more money than all of those salaries of a comicbook writer, comicbook editor, comicbook editor-in-chief, comicbook chief creative officer... combined.  Maybe those guys feel intimidated and need to get his attention to not feel so... inadequate.   Hanging on a string by demonstrating to what little power they've got left.

Even if the money and education was equal, they still would've still feel intimidated because some uppity nigger thought he was as good as the rest of them. The fact that the money and education was so skewed is the reason why they are having so much fun with this all this time later.

..EJD WROTE AN EXCELLENT MINI REGARDING THE MORE REALISTIC INTERPRETATION OF BP AND ORORO'S RELATIONSHIP GIVEN THE NEW [ AND FAR MORE REALISTIC, AND VASTLY VASTLY OVERDUE ] INVINCIBLE SIGNIFICANCE THAT HUDLIN GAVE TO WAKANDA AS THE UNDISPUTED, UNDEFEATED, UNTIED, PREMIER HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN EVERY REGARD IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF HUMANITY.

There is so much wrong in this statement that I could type for a year and still not scratch the surface.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2014, 08:49:49 pm by Maxine Shaw »
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1276 on: May 22, 2014, 02:05:50 am »
Couple of things I would like to clear up:

1) I NEVER said that Storm being with BP devalues her just by her being with him. Salustrade, stop making false accusations about my assertions. What I said was Storm was devalued for the sake of propping BP up and for the sake of building the marriage. I used the EJD mini as an example of this. Storm did not have to be devalued to make this thing happen. Honestly, I LIKE the idea of a Storm/BP marriage and I think it would have worked for the long haul like the marriage of Reed and Sue if it weren't for mistakes that were made concerning Storm's characterization at the BEGINNING of the ordeal.



False accusations?

Isn't this one of your posts?

I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good as we saw in the very early portrayals of these two characters going back to EJD. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.


Regardless of whatever qualifiers you choose to highlight, the fact remains that when you follow up statements to the effect that "Storm is a bigger character than the Black Panther" with,  "There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good" that illustrates an implied belief that Storm's character is somehow in danger of being "diminished" just by mere proximity to T'Challa.

As this is one of the primary derogatory memes pushed by the vocal contingent of rabid X-fanatics who've maintained a steady stream of invective laden vitriol against T'Challa, it goes without saying that a lot of BP enthusiasts remain accutely cognizant of the thinly veiled racism ensconced within the overall criticism of T'Challa as a character and the BP mythos in general.

As I've stated before there are very few Black Panther enthusiasts familiar with Chris Claremont's original chronicling of Ororo and T'Challa's first meeting that recognize or endorse EJD's retconned abomination of a story so I personally find the dogged determination of some Storm fans to use the excuse of the aforementioned ill concieved EJD retcon as a reason to justify the blind hatred of what Reginald Hudlin did by joining Ororo and T'Challa in marriage quite offensive to say the least.

To your credit, you're one of the few posters who's expressed displeasure at Ororo being paired with Wolverine but you're in the minority in this regard as evidenced by numerous posts on the X-forums over on CBR where posters like Stormullt and Valeria Kamentari have zero problem spewing their bile filled derogatory comments at T'Challa with very little intervention (if any) by the moderators.

After all is said and done, I genuinely hope that Greg pak's take on Ororo works out for the best and takes her in bold "new" direction but lets not kid ourselves about the originality of this approach especially as Reginald Hudlin more than achieved his objective by elevating Ororo to actual political prominence within the 616 MU just over 7 years earlier than Mr Pak.









Greg Pak ain't bringing anything "new" to the table.

As for Chris Claremont's contributions to Ororo's character during his tenure as X-Scribe, there's no denying that he poured his heart and soul into her characterization and for that, he deserves recognition.

Unfortunately, there's no denying the fact that Claremont's failure to explore Ororo's actual familial background was a glaring oversight made all the more glaring by Reginald Hudlin's detailed exploration of an aspect of Ororo's backstory that no one at the X-office seemed important enough to delve into.







So in closing, lets hope that Pak can manage to write s Storm-centric book that isn't dependant on the trashing of T'Challa's character to prop Ororo up in a misguided attempt to generate sales.

Offline Battle

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1277 on: May 22, 2014, 02:22:14 am »
So in closing, lets hope that Pak can manage to write s Storm-centric book that isn't dependant on the trashing of T'Challa's character to prop Ororo up in a misguided attempt to generate sales.





It's still not too late for rutog98 to consider my earlier suggestion which is to dress up in a Storm outfit...   Y'know, wearing a platinum wig, with the tight, black leather femdom joint and high heeled boots. Shoot this with a HD digital camera and do the Storm promotion thing.  Upload the material to YouTube and profit.  


I'm tellin' you, It'll be a hit with book sales!

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1278 on: May 22, 2014, 02:45:03 am »
So in closing, lets hope that Pak can manage to write s Storm-centric book that isn't dependant on the trashing of T'Challa's character to prop Ororo up in a misguided attempt to generate sales.





It's still not too late for rutog98 to consider my earlier suggestion which is to dress up in a Storm outfit...   Y'know, wearing a platinum wig, with the tight, black leather femdom joint and high heeled boots. Shoot this with a HD digital camera and do the Storm promotion thing.  Upload the material to YouTube and profit.  


I'm tellin' you, It'll be a hit with book sales!


My bro, I can't really fault the dude for repping hard for Ororo as a character.

I just resent the overplaying of the EJD mini as some sort of justification for the hatred that Reginald Hudlin's handling of Ororo and T'Challa as a married power couple received from some of the more rabid X-fanbase.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1279 on: May 22, 2014, 04:15:59 am »
Im still trying to understand how a writer whom is known to write the "hood dramas" was even allowed to write the storm mini?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 05:31:22 am by BmoreAkuma »
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1280 on: May 22, 2014, 05:26:50 am »
Im still trying to understand how a writer whom is know to write the "hood dramas" was even allowed to write the storm mini?

That's what happens when a company refuses to do adequate research into a writers resume before jumping on a bandwagon.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1281 on: May 22, 2014, 05:39:46 am »
Just by going through this man's website; the books he writes has a tendency to deal with sex, cheating, and the drama that comes with it in some form or fashion. SMH. I haven't touched the book when I heard the announcement. Still makes me wonder how in the hell he got a glyph award
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1282 on: May 22, 2014, 08:21:00 am »
Just by going through this man's website; the books he writes has a tendency to deal with sex, cheating, and the drama that comes with it in some form or fashion. SMH. I haven't touched the book when I heard the announcement. Still makes me wonder how in the hell he got a glyph award

There's no accounting for good taste. :smh:

Offline Princesa

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1283 on: May 22, 2014, 08:22:09 am »
Not to mention 99.9 of his male characters are DL which is why as bad as his sex scenes were (and they were awful) I expected worse.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1284 on: May 22, 2014, 09:29:34 am »
Not to mention 99.9 of his male characters are DL which is why as bad as his sex scenes were (and they were awful) I expected worse.

All in all, EJD was a very poor choice to write such an important story. :smh:

Offline Rutog98

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1285 on: May 22, 2014, 09:46:46 am »
Salustrade,

Storm is a bigger name character than the Black Panther. That's just a fact. Not trying to be derogatory towards BP in saying that. Thing is, though, I believe the Black Panther CAN stand toe-to-toe with characters like Captain America and Iron Man as being one of Marvel's big iconic flagship characters if given the chance. In fact, I think Black Panther has the potential to surpass the two characters I just mentioned (Cap and IM). I've already stated earlier that I think the Ororo/T'challa marriage was a good opportunity to do just that for BP and to bolster Storm's role in the MU. She's a HUGE deal in the X-world, but the X-Men tend to exist in their own bubble and they rarely come out of that bubble to play with the rest of the MU. This was an opportunity for Storm to burst free of that bubble. When I accused you of making false accusations of my claims, what I was referring to was your twisting the spirit of what I was saying.

Regarding my faulting the EJD story, you forget that that story was a 6 issue mini. You're not considering the span of time over which this desecration of her character took place. This means, it was told over a period of 6 months, which means that fans of the character Storm had to live through that for half a year. That's going to have a major impact on their view and support of a marriage between the two. Also, as I have pointed out, early in his tenure of writing Storm, there was some awkwardness in Hudlin's writing of her (though, the mini was by far the biggest blunder). This awkwardness came on the heels of the mini. As I've stated, Storm is a tough character to write unless you have really followed the character and have an encyclopedic breadth of knowledge about her canon and powers. Lobdell, who wrote X-Men for 7 years, said that she was his least favorite X-Man because he "did not get her".  To his credit, though, as Hudlin got to know the character better, the better his writing of Storm became.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 11:32:52 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Battle

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1286 on: May 22, 2014, 10:40:18 am »
Salustrade,

Storm is a bigger name character than the Black Panther. That's just a fact. Not trying to be derogatory towards BP in saying that.






Mmm-Hm...   yeah... sure.  I believe you.

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1287 on: May 22, 2014, 01:03:23 pm »
I've seen off the wall stuff posted before but kudos to you rut cause each time I think there's no way you could put your own foot further in your mouth you go ahead and say "NOPE there's still more room to in my mouth"

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1288 on: May 22, 2014, 01:19:31 pm »
Aside from the coded,  racial heckling the post-Hudlin writer's storytelling reveals, another viewpoint could be that here is this African American man who earns 1000 times more money than all of those salaries of a comicbook writer, comicbook editor, comicbook editor-in-chief, comicbook chief creative officer... combined.  Maybe those guys feel intimidated and need to get his attention to not feel so... inadequate.   Hanging on a string by demonstrating to what little power they've got left.

Even if the money and education was equal, they still would've still feel intimidated because some uppity nigger thought he was as good as the rest of them. The fact that the money and education was so skewed is the reason why they are having so much fun with this all this time later.

.While I wouldn't've put it like that? Yeah...I cosign

..EJD WROTE AN EXCELLENT MINI REGARDING THE MORE REALISTIC INTERPRETATION OF BP AND ORORO'S RELATIONSHIP GIVEN THE NEW [ AND FAR MORE REALISTIC, AND VASTLY VASTLY OVERDUE ] INVINCIBLE SIGNIFICANCE THAT HUDLIN GAVE TO WAKANDA AS THE UNDISPUTED, UNDEFEATED, UNTIED, PREMIER HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN EVERY REGARD IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF HUMANITY.

There is so much wrong in this statement that I could type for a year and still not scratch the surface

Okay. Type for twenty minutes, then. Let's fence for a while. I'll still luv ya.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: The sad return O'oroe O'Snooks Thomas (The demise of Ororo Munroe).
« Reply #1289 on: May 22, 2014, 01:50:38 pm »
Couple of things I would like to clear up:



2) Kudos to Salustrade for posting the original story. Upon rereading it, T'challa was not losing the fight when Storm jumped in to help him out. He was holding his own very well. Storm just offered a lending hand. That was all. The original story did not devalue Ororo or T'challa at all. There was no reason at all to rewrite the story. Instead, the original story should have been expounded upon, or, better yet, there should have been a 12-issue maxi series with the two facing a huge threat together as adults. At the end of the story, T'challa could have proposed to Storm. Marvel could have kept this big ending as a surprise till the last issue and wowed everyone. That would have been an appropriate build up to the marriage. CC would have been a great writer for this maxi, not EJD.


7) Supreme Illuminati, you claim that EJD's retcon of Storm/s early meeting with T'challa was more realistic, but that simply is not true. Its not true to the spirit of Storm's character. As a Storm fan, there was nothing present whatsoever in his portrayal of Storm that even begins to resemble the character that I fell in love with. It was like reading about a total stranger who looked like this character that keeps me in the hobby. It was very hard to see that and I was/am very upset about it. Thing is, when the overwhelming majority of Storm fans who follow the character maintains that she was mischaracterized in that story, then the problem is with the story, not the Storm fans. Storm has always had an "old soul" and she was very confident and self-assured as a child as illustrated in the original telling of the story.

another excellent post. I will definitely respond to this...I'm just very busy for a while. When I return, we can get into this. Thanks for writing. AMANI..."peace".
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw