Author Topic: The Mighty Black Avengers.  (Read 47738 times)

Offline bluezulu

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The Mighty Black Avengers.
« on: August 01, 2006, 08:06:37 am »
hey i saw that the black panther wedding thread had started to morph into other discussions. so to keep up with the great kamikazi's rules of order plus i really would like to continue to discuss this issue lets create a special thread for this as well as carry over a thread that was in hudline 1.0. discuss the black avengers as well as post your rosters. mine


Cage: the powerhouse

the black panther: part leader and financier

photon: the power one and co leader

storm: the x factor ;) as well as co leader

warmachine: the tech guy

triathlon: the little guy but with a new costume

the falcon: on again off again. keep in with the persona that priest built witht the house of m, more snap wilson then sam wilson

new character: either a teen guy or gal who is a protege (sp) and the group has to pull out of trouble from time to time

post yours as well as continued discussion over the possibility of a black avengers.

Offline sinjection

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2006, 08:10:34 am »
Oh no you didn't.

You did NOT just create a subject for the discussion of the so-called "Mighty Black Avengers".

oops. I guess you did, didn't you?  :D

Somebody throw Shango into that mix.

The "Mighty Black Avengers" would need a member with real Thor-type power if they truly expected to live up to the "Mighty" part of their name.

And while they're at it, someone should change Triathlon's name. He doesn't sound like an individual. He sounds like an event...and I don't mean in the cool way as in Storm's name (a storm is an event you see...)

Okay, I'm done  :)
« Last Edit: August 01, 2006, 08:14:47 am by sinjection »
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Offline HappyPants Panther

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2006, 08:54:58 am »
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline Hypestyle

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2006, 09:04:36 am »
well, i guess brother voodoo could be a part-timer, especially for dealing with magic/mystic-related crises..

Say, is the G.W. Bridge guy from SHIELD still alive?
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Offline sinjection

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2006, 09:50:46 am »
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.


Alpha Flight are Canadians for Canada. Correct?

I'm not saying the "MIGHTY BLACK AVENGERS" would be black superheroes for black people only, but what is it about black people having a common cause that seems to upset some white people (and not necessarily you - if you are in fact white HPP)? It's ridiculous. If there is a basketball game on television...one team fields a playing roster that is exclusively black, the other exclusively white, the very atmosphere surrounding the game becomes racially charged. Watch a high school basketball or football game featuring teams representing student bodies that are predominantly black vs the the school with the predominantly white student body. You'll see what I mean.

Remember John Thompson's Georgetown Hoyas of the late 1980s? "Hoya Paranoia" is what they called it. I can remember how that very excellent and feared team was described by sportswriters around the country. To maintain strict team discipline, John Thompson forbade any of his players to speak directly with members of the press. Hence, the "Hoya Paranoia" tag. John Thompson, a physically imposing man; tall and powerful, guided his team with the "velvet glove/iron fist" approach and his players responded splendidly to his leadership. Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutumbo, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson played for John Thompson and like so many others who played for him, they adore and revere the man. John Thompson was a black coach of an entirely black basketball team. He didn't recruit race. He recruited his national region and talent and it just so happened that the talent available to him was all black. Once, during a game when the all-black Georgetown Hoyas were dismantling the all-white Brigham Young Cougars basketball team, an announcer remarked that the Hoyas looked like Zulu warriors and that John Thompson could be their king. The announcer wasn't attempting to be derogatory. His statement was made in awe of Georgetown's overwhelming ability and talent. Instead of being celebrated as one of the most premier teams ever in college basketball history, the Hoyas were surrounded by a cloud of suspicion...a collective and successful effort comprised entirely of black males. They weren't feted. They were feared.

My point is this. Why would a team comprised of entirely black superheroes be seen as something troubling? Why would their reason for banding together be suspect?

The Defenders formed because they were tricked into doing so by Loki of Asgard.

What reason was given for the formation of the Champions, Inc. ? There were no blacks on either team I might add.
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Offline sinjection

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2006, 09:55:01 am »


How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol

Hmmmm...wellllllllllllll...........

There just happens to be a violent white supremacist organization called the "White Wolves" and no one claimed that Priest's "White Wolf" was somehow associated with that organization.
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Offline bluezulu

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2006, 09:56:57 am »
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol
---------------------------
happy i was feeling you untill the end comment. a white group formed or a group that has members belonging to every possible group from here to outer space would not even raise an eyebrow except for here or on the museum of black superheroes. thats what i meant the burden we hold. we have to worry about coming off forced or being exclusionary becasue we are excluded. heroes are heroes. black heroes are often left off of rosters for various reasons. most of those have nothing to do with race. the reason however for a phi beta sigma, negro leauges, museum of black superheroes is because of the exclusion of blacks from the mainstream organization. so out of proximity, oneness, race or circumstances i see nothing wrong with the black avengers. i think the story would be more entertaining with a more creative group orgin story but i could also see bill foster calling cage on the phone tripping about their previous battle from back in the day, decide to work together meet up with the falcon and before you know it somebody says hey guys we are available lets work together. black folks network all the time. ask redjack about the comic con. black creators of comic book can network and work together but the actual heroes cannot work together because of fear of coming off forced or implausable. :'(

Offline HappyPants Panther

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2006, 09:59:28 am »


How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol

Hmmmm...wellllllllllllll...........

There just happens to be a violent white supremacist organization called the "White Wolves" and no one claimed that Priest's "White Wolf" was somehow associated with that organization.

LOL! I knew it was comming!

But seriously though, my previous post adressed situations when I'd be cool with the idea of an all (insert race here) group. Pretty much boils down to something other than race uniting the team. Check my previous post again. Oh, and I'm as black as the ace of spades.
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2006, 09:59:40 am »
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.


Alpha Flight are Canadians for Canada. Correct?

I'm not saying the "MIGHTY BLACK AVENGERS" would be black superheroes for black people only, but what is it about black people having a common cause that seems to upset some white people (and not necessarily you - if you are in fact white HPP)? It's ridiculous. If there is a basketball game on television...one team fields a playing roster that is exclusively black, the other exclusively white, the very atmosphere surrounding the game becomes racially charged. Watch a high school basketball or football game featuring teams representing student bodies that are predominantly black vs the the school with the predominantly white student body. You'll see what I mean.

Remember John Thompson's Georgetown Hoyas of the late 1980s? "Hoya Paranoia" is what they called it. I can remember how that very excellent and feared team was described by sportswriters around the country. To maintain strict team discipline, John Thompson forbade any of his players to speak directly with members of the press. Hence, the "Hoya Paranoia" tag. John Thompson, a physically imposing man; tall and powerful, guided his team with the "velvet glove/iron fist" approach and his players responded splendidly to his leadership. Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutumbo, Alonzo Mourning, Allen Iverson played for John Thompson and like so many others who played for him, they adore and revere the man. John Thompson was a black coach of an entirely black basketball team. He didn't recruit race. He recruited his national region and talent and it just so happened that the talent available to him was all black. Once, during a game when the all-black Georgetown Hoyas were dismantling the all-white Brigham Young Cougars basketball team, an announcer remarked that the Hoyas looked like Zulu warriors and that John Thompson could be their king. The announcer wasn't attempting to be derogatory. His statement was made in awe of Georgetown's overwhelming ability and talent. Instead of being celebrated as one of the most premier teams ever in college basketball history, the Hoyas were surrounded by a cloud of suspicion...a collective and successful effort comprised entirely of black males. They weren't feted. They were feared.

My point is this. Why would a team comprised of entirely black superheroes be seen as something troubling? Why would their reason for banding together be suspect?

The Defenders formed because they were tricked into doing so by Loki of Asgard.

What reason was given for the formation of the Champions, Inc. ? There were no blacks on either team I might add.
---------------------
you could research this and present this as a thesis in any african american studies class. it's that deep. go on run with it. i want to hear some more. :)

Offline bluezulu

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2006, 10:01:44 am »
i think marvel creativly would love to see the black avengers however financially they know it won't sell. unless they would be happy with about 17 to 25k per issue.

Offline HappyPants Panther

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2006, 10:03:27 am »
happy i was feeling you untill the end comment.

Then you were almost 100% correct. ;D
Marvel has yet to change their Black Panther Bio page to reflect Hudlin's history. Yes! There's still hope.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2006, 10:08:54 am »
As I've said before, I'm not fond of the idea. Aside from being or atleast seeming exclusionary (Which is not cool), it seems forced. Groups based on race are unlike groups based on a common cause (X-men- the improvement of mutant/human relations), nationality (Alpha Flight-works for the canadian government), or a common history/"tragedy" (Fantastic Four-each member was a part of the same accident and were all friends prior to the accident), are held together by the weakest of bonds.

Compared to the aformentioned ties, race just doesn't stack up. Now if all the characters were black and found themselves in a group for other reasons, I could live with it. For instance say the survivors of the Tuskegee Experiment or their children formed a group that wouln't rest until it brought down the US govenrment-That would be great. And its easy to understand why their all black and all together (though race plays a part-only black men were chosen for the experiment [I think], their primary motive is revenge).

How would any of you feel about a group called "White Might"? *Waits for someone to dig up some obscure article about such a group*lol


Even if that is a legitimate problem, a common cause is easily settled by a storyline.  The team formed to deal with something that requires a completely black team, like the need to infiltrate an all-black organization.  Once that is dealt with, they decide to stay together.  OR Falcon decides to put together an all-black team to serve as role models in his community.  Or some idiot tries to attack Cage, while he's playing poker with Capt. Monica, BP, Falcon and Storm.  And suddenly we have a team.  And I'm sure a thousand other storylines would provide this common cause, if it is really needed.

Offline bluezulu

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2006, 10:17:25 am »
i do believe that a lot of the posters on other sites who think the marriage is "forced" and would probably say that about in all black team have to be young (under 21) i say that becasue an older crowd would remember the early 80s and 70s blackexplotation era and would not be freaked out about the concept of an all black/minority team. when reg told us we would see an appearance by virtually every major minority hero in the marvel u (thanks for delivering to reg ;)) i was beaming like i would back when i was 13. that has always been our dream and reg has shown this could happen, if a writer wanted to do it. that takes us to the other age old problem black talent. we have seen some white writers who have not been afraid to tackle such story elements bendis, strazynski, who else?

Offline sinjection

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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2006, 10:42:04 am »
b-zulu, there will always be some among the "larger comic book buying demographic" who will find reason to complain about black comic book characters and their circumstances.

Today, arguably the most powerful black comic book character in the Marvel/DC Universe is John Stewart, the Green Lantern. Now, he's a fine character. I especially like his current characterization. His glowing green eyes demonstrate the intimate link he has with the power of his Ring. Still, you will find some in that "demographic" who will whine and moan whenever John Stewart is prominently featured in the comics and you especially saw their viscerally negative response against the character when it was he and not Jordan, Rayner or Gardner who was chosen as the Bruce Timm/Justice League Lantern. Bruce Timm is a huge John Stewart fan by the way. When John Stewart's love relationship with Shayera Hol was revealed in Wild Cards, the venom against John Stewart really began to flow.

There is talk about a big screen appearance by Cloak and Dagger. Unfortunately, I have learned to assume the worst of certain segments of the "demographic" whenever a black male is teamed with a white female. I can't recall ever reading any negative messages associated with Namor's relationship with Carrie Alexander during John Byrne's run on the Sub-Mariner. The "demographic" seemed fine with Danny Rand/Misty Knight. The only negatives I've been aware of associated with Ororo's dalliances with Wolverine and Lifeguard's brother (I forget his name), is that neither of them got to get it on with Ororo and that she is now married to T'Challa. I like Jessica Jones. But notice how she is drawn sometimes. She is a pretty lady, but she is often drawn in such a way that her rough life shows through. She is no Emma Frost by any stretch of the imagination. Maybe the "troubling segment" of the "demographic" don't have much of a problem with the Cage/Jones union and the fact that they have a biracial baby because they don't think much of Jessica. But Storm on the otherhand....Storm is unquestionably the most exotic and the most beautiful female comic book character ever created. She could have belonged to the Wolverine or any number of male mutants not named Bishop, but no. She is married to T'Challa and the "demographic" has led the charge of those criticizing the marriage as being "forced".

Those of that certain segment of the "demographic" might have gone for all-black singing groups like "New Edition" because I'm sure that many of them were fans of "New Edition's" imitators: New Kids on the Block, Backstreet Boys, N'Sync, etc. But when it comes to an all-black superhero group....now that's something else entirely.
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Re: The Mighty Black Avengers.
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2006, 10:45:41 am »
Black Panther
Luke cage
Broder voodoo
Blade
War Machine
Photon
Storm