Author Topic: Spike Lee and His Hatership  (Read 13269 times)

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #45 on: January 04, 2013, 07:31:05 am »
I'm not on Spike's side on this one at all.

But even I don't think its fair or accurate to say that Spike is mad that he didn't think of Django first or that he doesn't have the talent or clout to pull it off.

That is absurd.

Spike's almost always made films from a personal observational level (with the exception of Clockers). Inside Man was him cashing a check.

Spike has no interest in making genre pulp. His issue is in not understanding genre pulp's value or not believing it has any value at all. That is why I call him an elitist.   

But that is very different from "Spike's just mad that he didn't think of it first".

Spike may be a snob but he isn't stupid. Right wing pundits are already calling Django an incitement to a race riot. And Tarantino's WHITE. Imagine if any Black Director had tried to make Django.

If anything Spike's mad that this white guy has license to make trival violent dribble about slavery when people like him can't get anything of substance made on that subject(and if a Rosewood does by some miracle gets made, we won't watch it).

VV,

While I don't agree with your belief that Spike is a snob, I like how you explained what you meant when you called him an elitist. I don't think he is that either, but I did like how you broke that down. I also agreed with a lot of the other things you said.

I guess I could simply call it a matter of taste.

I don't think Spike's ever had a taste for Blaxplotation or Genre Pulp or anything of that nature. I happen to love the stuff and always have. QT's never done anything else, as far as I know(I didn't see Four Rooms-for all I know his featurette is a straight love story or something).

But even Spike's genre stuff isn't as...lurid you'd expect your typical thrillers to be(Inside Man is a battle of intellects mostly, 26th Hour is about a drug dealer but it has considerable empathy for him and his world and...O.K. I don't remember ever seeing Clockers).

Now that I seen Django (which, I loved-props to all involved), I can say it's exactly the kind of film he'd never make (or would remotely want to).

It will be interesting to see Spike's version of Oldboy is that story is kind of a 180 away from his sensiblities.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #46 on: January 04, 2013, 10:10:53 am »
I'm not on Spike's side on this one at all.

But even I don't think its fair or accurate to say that Spike is mad that he didn't think of Django first or that he doesn't have the talent or clout to pull it off.

That is absurd.

Spike's almost always made films from a personal observational level (with the exception of Clockers). Inside Man was him cashing a check.

Spike has no interest in making genre pulp. His issue is in not understanding genre pulp's value or not believing it has any value at all. That is why I call him an elitist.   

But that is very different from "Spike's just mad that he didn't think of it first".

Spike may be a snob but he isn't stupid. Right wing pundits are already calling Django an incitement to a race riot. And Tarantino's WHITE. Imagine if any Black Director had tried to make Django.

If anything Spike's mad that this white guy has license to make trival violent dribble about slavery when people like him can't get anything of substance made on that subject(and if a Rosewood does by some miracle gets made, we won't watch it).

VV,

While I don't agree with your belief that Spike is a snob, I like how you explained what you meant when you called him an elitist. I don't think he is that either, but I did like how you broke that down. I also agreed with a lot of the other things you said.

I guess I could simply call it a matter of taste.

I don't think Spike's ever had a taste for Blaxplotation or Genre Pulp or anything of that nature. I happen to love the stuff and always have. QT's never done anything else, as far as I know(I didn't see Four Rooms-for all I know his featurette is a straight love story or something).

But even Spike's genre stuff isn't as...lurid you'd expect your typical thrillers to be(Inside Man is a battle of intellects mostly, 26th Hour is about a drug dealer but it has considerable empathy for him and his world and...O.K. I don't remember ever seeing Clockers).

Now that I seen Django (which, I loved-props to all involved), I can say it's exactly the kind of film he'd never make (or would remotely want to).

It will be interesting to see Spike's version of Oldboy is that story is kind of a 180 away from his sensiblities.

I guess that means his not afraid to step outside of his artistic comfort zone, every now and then. :)

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2013, 04:37:59 am »



Ironically, a similar argument was once used by film critic David Denby to brand Lee as a rabble rouser.  In his review of Spike’s breakthrough feature Do The Right Thing, which originally ran in the June 26th, 1989 edition of New York Magazine, Denby said of the film “The end of this movie is a shambles and if audiences go wild, he’s partly responsible.  Lee wants to rouse people, to “wake them up.” But to do what?” 


In that very same issue, columnist Joe Klein weighed in with equally alarmist sentiments in his article “Spiked?”: “All these subtleties are likely to leave white (especially white liberal audiences) debating the meaning of Spike’s message.  Black teenagers won’t find it so hard though.  For them, the message is clear from the opening credits, which roll to the tune of ‘Fight The Power,’ performed by Public Enemy, a virulently anti-Semitic rap group (Professor Griff, the group’s minister of information, recently told the Washington Times that Jews were ‘responsible for the majority of wickedness that goes on around the globe’).” 


Griff was subsequently ejected from the group as a result of his comments.  Klein goes on to say that the film states that both the police and white people are the enemy of Black Americans.  Ironically, Spike seems to be doing exactly the same thing to Tarantino that Denby did to him.  By doing this, Spike has not only aligned himself with would be detractor’s such as Denby and Klein, but also conservative pundits such as Matt Drudge, who fear that Django Unchained might be a call to arms for the Black Community.  They think it might stir up the “good nigras.”  That’s exactly what Klein and Denby once thought of Do The Right Thing.  Interesting, isn’t it?




 interesting indeed!!

The public discussion of "django" & "do the the right thing" are almost (too) parallel. the comparisons are...peep the similarities...

geez, spike & tarantino & a bunch of other directors need to have an open dialogue... live, on-air, uncut on channel #.....

maybe, fuqua was right... given lee's (do the right thing opening)history & all... at least, fuqua stated his claim(about diapproving-players in the directing-game) from a referee position... i mean, fuqua deserves some credit for expressing the lee/tarantino paradox with a reminder of diplomacy.   

watch the news editoral... it breaks it down... discussion begins @ 3:14


DO THE RIGHT THING (1990 DISCUSSION)

Offline sherelled

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2013, 12:09:00 pm »
 :) I am loving that we are all still talking about this film and the other things associated with it two weeks later. Awesome!

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2013, 05:27:56 pm »
CLEVELAND PLAIN DEALER:

Spike Lee's 'Django' attack stirs debate about whether Quentin Tarantino film is racially disrespectful
 By Michael Heaton, The Plain Dealer The Plain Dealer
on January 05, 2013 at 3:00 PM
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Christoph Waltz and Jamie Foxx star in Quentin Tarantino's "Django Unchained."
 
COURTESY OF THE WEINSTEIN CO.   Quentin Tarantino's blood-splattered and N-word-littered Western "Django Unchained" got off to a controversial start when fellow filmmaker Spike Lee let fly with a critical Tweet.

"American Slavery Was Not a Sergio Leone Spaghetti Western. It Was a Holocaust. My Ancestors Are Slaves. Stolen From Africa. I Will Honor Them," Lee wrote.

Black people made up 42 percent of the film's initial screenings, according to The Hollywood Reporter. As of Wednesday, Box Office Mojo said the film has grossed more than $82.4 million.

The story about a freed slave turned bounty hunter played by Jamie Foxx has enthralled viewers with Tarantino's signature audacious violence and off-the-wall humor while repulsing others. Critics have compared it to the spaghetti Westerns Lee referenced as well as the Blaxploitation films of the late 1970s, such as the Southern Gothic "Mandingo" and "Superfly."

Some prominent black commentators with Cleveland ties disagreed with Lee's outspoken commentary on the film. We recently spoke to three of them.

Former Plain Dealer columnist Sam Fulwood III is now a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress in Washington D.C.

"I went to see it with trepidation," said Fulwood. "And I came out of the theater conflicted. But the more I thought about it, the more I liked it."

Fulwood conceded that it was the first Tarantino film he'd ever seen and that it was highly unconventional.

"It's a weird movie. But it is not a historical document about slavery. This is not 'Roots.' A lot of black people feel that anyone who approaches the subject must take their collective point of view into account. What Tarantino has done is make a subversive film. It's [the Mel Brooks comedy] 'Blazing Saddles' with explicit violence. He's made a movie about a love-struck black cowboy. There are almost no movies about black cowboys. Slavery is a subplot."

Fulwood had another unlikely comparison when it came to the violence that is at the heart of "Django."

"It was like a Road Runner cartoon. It's like seeing Wile E. Coyote being knocked off a cliff, run over by a truck and having an anvil dropped on his head. When you see the amount and kinds of violence Tarantino piles on, you can't take it seriously."

Fulwood found Lee's Tweet a tad disingenuous.

"Tarantino is a filmmaker who makes the films he's going to make, and he doesn't care what anybody thinks about them," said Fulwood. "Guess what? Spike Lee is the same kind of filmmaker."

Fulwood's piece on the movie will be published on the website americanprogress.org.

Mansfield B. Frazier is an author and freelance journalist in Cleveland. He wrote a critique of the movie for coolcleveland.com.

"What disturbed me wasn't the lack of historical accuracy, but the amount of gratuitous violence perpetrated by the two main characters," he wrote. "They would have still made their point quite well if they had killed fifty percent fewer bad guys."

Frazier also took the long historical approach about what the film says about race relations today.

"The film's brutal honesty in regards to just how rotten to the moral core the institution of slavery was (and how sick and demented those who perpetuated it were) offers ample proof that as a people there's nothing wrong with us black people . . . but that something was indeed done to us. And, while I understand we all wish the national healing was going faster, I also understand it takes centuries, not merely decades, to shake off the lasting remnants of slavery and this film, in a sense, gives a voice to that reality. In spite of having a black president, on some levels relations between the races haven't changed all that much since the era depicted in 'Django.' "

Jimi Izrael is a writer and regular contributor on NPR's "Tell Me More." He's a big fan of "Django."

"I loved it," he said enthusiastically. "I think it's my all-time favorite movie behind 'Birth of a Nation.' It's a black love story. It's a great sendup. It's a sneaky homage. This movie will answer any silly question any white person has ever had about black people."

Lee's objections about the movie don't particularly bother Izrael.

"Who cares what he thinks?" he said. "Who made him the king of all black people? Why does the media magnify all his opinions? I haven't checked my email today. Maybe it's my turn to be the king of all blacks."

Izrael also thinks that comparisons with iconic historical films such as the TV miniseries "Roots" are like apples and oranges.

" 'Roots' is a movie about white oppression. 'Django' is a movie about black people kicking white peoples' asses. Tarantino is a storyteller, not a historian. This is art. This is film. It's fiction. Tarantino's responsibility is only to the words on the page, to the truth as he knows it. This is a great film. So well-written, so esoteric, so idiomatic. Leave your preconceived sensibilities at home when you come see this film."


Offline Kristopher

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2013, 06:53:58 pm »
Quote
"Who cares what he thinks?" he said. "Who made him the king of all black people? Why does the media magnify all his opinions? I haven't checked my email today. Maybe it's my turn to be the king of all blacks."

Maybe I missed something. Did Lee call a press conference to give his opinion on Django or was he asked for his opinion during an interview?

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2013, 10:00:11 am »
^
I agree and what's up with Izrael's love for "Birth of a Nation"?

Offline Reginald Hudlin

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2013, 11:12:13 am »
^
I agree and what's up with Izrael's love for "Birth of a Nation"?
On Facebook, Jimi said he hated that article, that they mangled his quotes.  Which I believe, based on other comments and conversations.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2013, 05:47:47 pm »
^
Thanks I was wondering about that. I can't see how many blacks would like Birth of a Nation unless they were deep cinemaphiles and noted it's historical value and technical innovations, but I would think most of us would find the content disgusting.

Offline Pantherfan

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Re: Spike Lee and His Hatership
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2013, 03:52:18 am »
Spike never cared for Blaxploitation films or pulp films. Django would fall under the two.