Poll

BP710 Story Ideas     Deadlines for selection: November 22, 2017

Death Be Not Proud-The final days of T'Chaka the Black Panther
1 (16.7%)
Lost in Space-The search for the Vibranium asteroid field
2 (33.3%)
Doomwar-The Black Payback: T'Challa v Doom as it should've been
0 (0%)
Black on Black violence-The on panel fight between the Black Panther and Black Dwarf
0 (0%)
Where is the Love-The romance of T'Challa and Ororo
0 (0%)
Sweat of the Panther-Steampunk Wakanda
1 (16.7%)
Beware Of Geek's Reply #4210 on: October 22, 2017, 07:39:29 am
1 (16.7%)
Battle's Supreme nomination  Reply #4208 on: October 22, 2017, 04:59:32 am
1 (16.7%)
Kickin' it with Kip Lewis Reply #4238 on: October 25, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
0 (0%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: November 22, 2017, 07:45:54 pm

Author Topic: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS  (Read 1034246 times)

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2565 on: June 26, 2015, 10:07:01 am »
Brother SI, I've judged Hickman's story by what I've seen, not what is to come that I have not seen.  How is it that you are able, "before the end of his story" to judge it as such a triumph for T'Challa?

Peace,

Mont

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2566 on: June 26, 2015, 05:12:38 pm »
Brother SI, I've judged Hickman's story by what I've seen, not what is to come that I have not seen.  How is it that you are able, "before the end of his story" to judge it as such a triumph for T'Challa?

Peace,

Mont

Don't waste your breath.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2567 on: June 27, 2015, 08:08:06 pm »
Brother SI, I've judged Hickman's story by what I've seen, not what is to come that I have not seen.  How is it that you are able, "before the end of his story" to judge it as such a triumph for T'Challa?

Peace,

Mont


I know you've judged the story by what you've seen, Brother Kimoyo, and your criticisms have been far more objective and balanced than most.

The reasons I have judged the end of Hickman's story as a triumph for TChalla is because the leaks thus far allowed...combined with the movies that TChalla will be in, thus skyrocketing his profile and value to Marvel...show that TChalla as a character and property has been invested in heavily by Marvel. They definitely are pulling for his success. Therefore. The hard twists and turns that TChalla is going through are the incredible trials and travails of all the superheroes in the story that Hickman is writing; and TChalla...like the cat he is...will land easy as you please on his feet after all of this.

TChalla's movie debut in CA:CW, his AVENGERS debut, and his trilogy of solo movies--all directed by Ava Duvernay, the powerful beautiful brilliant sistah who will do a great job [ I still hold to the idea that RH is the greatest choice for a BP director and that's why he's overlooked ], are all forthcoming. TChalla's solo...which will be here next year, just in time to take advantage of the massive hype TChalla will receive as part of CA:CW...will also be helmed by a Black writer who can write the baddest badass TChalla ever. This time WITHOUT the hate that CJP and RH and McDuffie and Liss received. Because the baddest badass TChalla will be THE STANDARD TChalla ENTHUSIASTICALLY EMBRACED EVEN BY THE X-DORKS...AND BACKED IRON CLAD WITHOUT BS ALL THE WAY FROM THE TOP OF MARVEL BRASS DOWN. We see this already being stated by Marvel writers in their interviews, after retreats and stuff.

Marvel wouldn't build TChalla up in the movies and then tear him down in the comics right when they're both pushing so hard for diversity in their comics and being rewarded by the uptick in the amount and diversity of their readers and therefore achieving unprecedented profits, as well. It's the most simple and elementary of common sense...dollars make sense.

And who kicked that off, on the comic book side of things? Hickman did. Simple and easy to see. It's just that some people are so lost and inflexible in their mindset that they see anything that is not a constant parade of TCHALLA IS BETTER THAN ALL YOU MOFO'S COMBINED as some kind of chumping out or selling out of TChalla...when it's just good storytelling to introduce meaningful trial devastation loss and error so that the protagonist can be that much more amazing as s/he navigates all that mess and comes back from beyond the brink of destruction to the very pinnacle of success.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2015, 08:17:23 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2568 on: June 27, 2015, 08:50:27 pm »
What did Denzel's character Alonzo say in TRAINING DAY? "...This sh*t is CHESS, not CHECKERS!!"

Rook and Bishop Checkmate.

Gitcha long game on.


Nice, Supreme.  :)


Thank you bruh! I missed this comment the last time I was online.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2569 on: June 27, 2015, 10:01:43 pm »
Look. Here's the bottom line here. Remember all that:"AHHHH WAKANDA IS DESTROYED!!"

No it's not:

 http://marvel.wikia.com/Egyptia

People decrying the fate of TChalla have vision less accurate than this guy...after he's faded on bourbon:





What's going to happen for TChalla during the parts of Battleworld that we haven't seen yet?

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/staypuffed/news/?a=122119

If you pay attention to the clues that were dropped in BW and th4e spiel of Doctor Strange, you will see that I was absolutely right in my fanfic. And I must confess...I didn't expect to be right. A major. Major part of what I projected might be the issue years ago and then again a couple pages ago when we were musing about how we can possibly reset the relationship between Namor and BP. I suggested that DOCTOR STRANGE was the greatest threat to Wakanda in THE ILLUMINATI, and that he was likely to be the most corruptible outside of Tony Starks. This idea plays into the latter chapters of my fanfic [ which I already wrote some years ago, as yall recall...but hella lollygagged in putting up. I have 8 Chapters that I haven't put up yet but which are written in whole or part already ].

No matter what Doc Strange says...they didn't defeat THE BEYONDERS and Doctor Doom didn't acquire omnipotence. An omnipotent being would acquire omniscience as a mandatory aspect of omniscience [ knowledge is power, all knowledge is all power ]. An omnipotent being could fix his own face and recreate the entirety of al lthat came before. Because..that's what omniscience is. There are no limits. There is no way that TChalla or Reed would fail to note this...and there's no way that Strange would not note that TChalla and Reed wouldn't instantly see through this stuff.

Which means that Strange is setting the TChalla and Reed faction up to take down The Cabal AND Doom. And it means that Strange can only be trusted to a very narrow degree. He has been compromised in a serious way...but a part of him is still fighting for both rescue and vindication.

You know what happens for TChalla after Battleworld?



and

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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2570 on: June 27, 2015, 10:25:44 pm »
You know what else is in store for TChalla in BW...and we haven't even seen this story come out, yet?

https://twitter.com/jhickman/status/611247772587687936

That'll probably be issue #5 or 6.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2571 on: June 27, 2015, 10:30:32 pm »
So. After al lthe hand wringing from the hand wringers about TChalla is done? TChalla is still here and is badass.

I really find the idea of TChalla in Battleworld Egyptia as a very interesting thing...but I don't really think we will see that in the main series. If at all. Would be a perfect place to send Kasper Kole and THE CREW, for recon, though. Would love to know if Shuri was still there...but Khonshu is running thangs in Egyptia.
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2572 on: June 27, 2015, 11:15:37 pm »
SI, nothing you provided as "evidence" shows a restoration of Wakanda or T'Challa, simply existing in the comics universe does not mean they are restored.  Further, there are so many contradictions in what you posted, in your forecasts, I really don't see any reason to continue this debate.  We'll see soon, I suppose, how Hickman wraps this thing up and then we'll all know what kind ofBlack Panther/T'Challa/Wakanda exists in the comics universe?

Peace,

Mont

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2573 on: June 28, 2015, 03:42:48 am »
How about until it is all said and  done,  no more beating a dead horse!

When it is done then say. .. see worth it!  No,  It wasn't! Ok I was wrong.  Told you do!  And huh, never saw that it coming.

Until then. .. let's talk about something else! 

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2574 on: June 28, 2015, 06:45:42 am »
I would not presume to tell others there is nothing more to say, do not to add to this thread until...  However, I know myself as well as others have added new topics to this board.

Peace,

Mont

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2575 on: June 28, 2015, 12:56:20 pm »
SI, nothing you provided as "evidence" shows a restoration of Wakanda or T'Challa, simply existing in the comics universe does not mean they are restored.  Further, there are so many contradictions in what you posted, in your forecasts, I really don't see any reason to continue this debate.  We'll see soon, I suppose, how Hickman wraps this thing up and then we'll all know what kind ofBlack Panther/T'Challa/Wakanda exists in the comics universe?

Peace,

Mont

Stated a lot more succictly than I would have had the patience to have done myself.

I very much doubt that Supreme Illuminati see's the irony in loudly proclaiming how "great" Hickman has been for T'Challa when everything that he's written to date concerning T'Challa and Wakanda has just furthered the close to 7 year run of misfortune that the character has suffered post AvX.

To me it's not just about the final destination of T'Challa and the BP Mythos but moreso the quality of the journey and how the character concerned, has been portrayed on said journey.

As opposed to the nonsense that SI has been pumping out here as regards people like myself supposedly wanting T'Challa to be portrayed as beating all comers and situations without a sweat, all I expect is for the character to be portrayed in a manner in keeping with his established characteristics and traits as laid out by Kirby and Lee back in 1966.

I don't expect a tactical genius to be portrayed as anything but that when reading stories about him especially when said tactical awareness is dumbed down by a writer who has ZERO affinity for the character but chooses to write him as an ignoramus just to facilitate another Doom-centric bit of fan-fiction.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2576 on: June 28, 2015, 03:55:13 pm »
SI, nothing you provided as "evidence" shows a restoration of Wakanda or T'Challa, simply existing in the comics universe does not mean they are restored.  Further, there are so many contradictions in what you posted, in your forecasts, I really don't see any reason to continue this debate.  We'll see soon, I suppose, how Hickman wraps this thing up and then we'll all know what kind ofBlack Panther/T'Challa/Wakanda exists in the comics universe?

Peace,

Mont

How about until it is all said and  done,  no more beating a dead horse!

When it is done then say. .. see worth it!  No,  It wasn't! Ok I was wrong.  Told you do!  And huh, never saw that it coming.

Until then. .. let's talk about something else! 


I would not presume to tell others there is nothing more to say, do not to add to this thread until...  However, I know myself as well as others have added new topics to this board.

Peace,

Mont

SI, nothing you provided as "evidence" shows a restoration of Wakanda or T'Challa, simply existing in the comics universe does not mean they are restored.  Further, there are so many contradictions in what you posted, in your forecasts, I really don't see any reason to continue this debate.  We'll see soon, I suppose, how Hickman wraps this thing up and then we'll all know what kind ofBlack Panther/T'Challa/Wakanda exists in the comics universe?

Peace,

Mont

Stated a lot more succictly than I would have had the patience to have done myself.

I very much doubt that Supreme Illuminati see's the irony in loudly proclaiming how "great" Hickman has been for T'Challa when everything that he's written to date concerning T'Challa and Wakanda has just furthered the close to 7 year run of misfortune that the character has suffered post AvX.

To me it's not just about the final destination of T'Challa and the BP Mythos but moreso the quality of the journey and how the character concerned, has been portrayed on said journey.

As opposed to the nonsense that SI has been pumping out here as regards people like myself supposedly wanting T'Challa to be portrayed as beating all comers and situations without a sweat, all I expect is for the character to be portrayed in a manner in keeping with his established characteristics and traits as laid out by Kirby and Lee back in 1966.

I don't expect a tactical genius to be portrayed as anything but that when reading stories about him especially when said tactical awareness is dumbed down by a writer who has ZERO affinity for the character but chooses to write him as an ignoramus just to facilitate another Doom-centric bit of fan-fiction.

Okay. Let's wait and see.

Wait. Isn't that what I said and repeated from quite a while ago until like 10 pages ago on this thread? Yes. It is. Isn't that what the "bet" that Ture and I eventually boils down to? Yes. It is.

For the record: most of us agree on what we want for TChalla, we just disagree in what flavor and helpings and style of it. And even that disagreement, when you get to the nuts and bolts of it, is more minor than our dissenting posts would indicate.

I never thought anyone on THIS board would see TChalla as being presented as literally invincible. I do think that some people on this board don't see that there are some sacrifices that must be made when telling team stories of the kind that Hickman told.

Again. For the record. I have never advocated that TChalla be shown as anything less than the megagenius that he is. Same with THE ILLUMINATI. I have agreed with all of you...even Salustrade...regarding the idea that writing down THE ILLUMINATI actually does a disservice to the extent quality of the work and the staggering potential Hickman's story holds. Hickman has done a very good job, overall. Nobody here...let's be real...could conceive of the story, wield the cast, the plot points, the concepts, the pacing, the consequences, and weave the narrative overall as well as Hickman did in his story. That really means that he's a better writer than we are. We nitpick on points...important points...but none of us would have done half as well as he did with the story that he conceived. Which means? We would have at least DOUBLE the complaints and hate that Hickman has received for his work. And actually deserved every letter of it.

With that being said? Imagine a truly formidable ILLUMINATI...with all those massive egos being uberarrogant together in the same room...working together at max levels to deal with THE INCURSIONS and everything else.  Remember I have said this many times: a story of the fall of the heroes wherein the heroes show way more fight, repeatedly come back from the brink, and are shown to their full potential BUT STILL LOSE ALMOST EVERYTHING is imo even more compelling than the specifics of the saga that Hickman has shown us. Imagine SHURI--as Queen of Wakanda-- breaking out THE THANOS PROTOCOLS. Imagine Strange using his potent magicks right away against the likes of Terrax, Black Swan, and more. They could uncover all kinds of information RIGHT AWAY. Not even have to wait for Thanos. They would have found Thane very quickly. They would have used MAGIC against The Builders. Tony Starks with his ubertech and THANOS BUSTERS [ A fleet of super suits aimed against Thanos and cosmic level threats ].

Jason Aaron...yes THAT guy...revealed via TChalla's inner dialogue that TChalla had spent quite a bit of time among The Skrulls and walked among them. While doing so, he learned the finer and weaker points of their unique anatomy, and knew how to strike and where to strike their vulnerable nerve clusters.

Imagine SHURI referencing previous Panthers and THE THANOS PROTOCOL on page and taking to Proxima Midnight amid a vicious knockdown drag out fight.

Imagine..after the use and destruction of The Infinity Gauntlet...Namor communing with Father Neptune for advice and direction. And Father Neptune gifts Namor with magitech that allows him and The Illuminati to travel the space between multiverses.

Remember...Strange Namor and TChalla represent the magic contingent of THE ILLUMINATI and they have crazy pull. Which wasn't once utilized COLLECTIVELY. Probably because Hickman [ correctly ] stated that each member of THE ILLUMINATI thinks that they--solo--can handle pretty much whatever. However. The very convening of THE ILLUMINATI happens because they're facing issues that they can't resolve solo. It's like how THE AVENGERS spontaneously came together. THE ILLUMINATI is the brain trust of Earth 616. Which takes us back to...yeah. Use every bit of the brain trust resources available to this ILLUMINATI. So when they lose? The story is all the more gripping and the emotional consequences area all the more intense.The death of the MU would be all the more devastating and make for much much more gripping storytelling.

Cho and a few others...who are essentially ILLUMINATI reserves...should have been brought in to multitask on tech and other issues while the bulk of the frontline Illuminati were dimension hopping.  After Achebe and The Desturi, I don't see TChalla housing the WMD in Wakanda proper. Now...if it's later revealed that TChalla built a faux Wakanda like my fanfic insists? Then yeah I see TChalla housing the WMD's in Faux Wakanda because it okey-dokes the crap outta everyone involved. That right there is a TChalla move.

Beast is one of the top two geneticists on Earth. Imagine him NOT coming up with a "anti-cosmic baddie" gene weapon. After The Brood and allat, you think that Hank would be caught slippin? Yeah, right. Beast would break out The McCoy Strain specially concocted to weaken/strip the powers of Cosmic Baddies. And be ethically controlled by him, because The McCoy Strain is sentient and possesses a strong and honorable moral code.

^^^Imagine THE ILLUMINATI doing stuff like THAT. And STILL losing. The Black Priests come to play. Imagine Strange and Reed and TChalla NOT coming up with ways to strip various Alephs of their information and explore the latticework between realities and universes that The Builders' Fleet was flushed from. I just can't see how that much brainpower wouldn't've been all over this stuff. Right away. This way we can have the best mix of spacefaring adventure and Earth based adventure. Character and love moments. And. Let me give Hickman huge props for showing TChalla and Ororo making love and treating each other as sensible adults should treat each other, while not trampling over the previous continuity. Regardless of how much I absolutely am repelled down to the atoms of my soul by the racist redneck Goldwater X-Office writers crushing The Marriage of the Century and dissing TChalla hard.


I enjoy Hickman's story overall. Despite the sharp gaffes in some areas that Hickman has imo made...with the always present caveat that I realize recognize and accept that none of us would have done half as well, were we in his shoes. So whatever amount of legit gripes we've had with Hickman...and we've had a pretty bushel full of them...had we penned this epic? We would have doubled the catastrophic mistakes that he made. And been twice as guilty of twice as many gaffes as he has ever made. That knowledge tempers my criticism of Hickman to a large degree.

Like Salustrade, Ture and Mont, I have sharp differences and issues with many of the details of the story that Hickman wrote [ especially as they pertain to what I deem to be inexcusable disses of TChalla, like TChalla crying in public like a chump after being scriptedas the unflappable unbreakable aloof incarnation of uberequanimity and uberequilibrium ], but unlike the posts I have read from my worthy Brothers...I have offered specific solutions to these issues that can fit in story format in only 4 pages or less [ most of the time ].

And still. I still like the story a lot.

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2577 on: June 28, 2015, 06:19:32 pm »
Quote
You know what happens for TChalla after Battleworld?  supreme illuminati


No, my friend and maybe you don't either.



Quote
Several months ago, Marvel tipped its hand about All-New, All-Different Avengers; one of the first comics slated to launch after Secret Wars wraps up this fall. As expected, writer Mark Waid and Mahmud Asrar will be the creative team with artist Adam Kubert sharing art duties with Asrar as the series releases more than 12 issues per year.

The new lineup of Avengers: Spider-Man (Miles Morales), Iron Man, Captain America (Sam Wilson), Ms. Marvel, Thor (Jane Foster), and The Vision.

Full article   http://www.craveonline.com/comics/articles/871119-marvel-unveils-new-lineups-avengers-squadron-supreme
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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2578 on: June 28, 2015, 06:43:04 pm »
Quote
You know what else is in store for TChalla in BW...and we haven't even seen this story come out, yet?

https://twitter.com/jhickman/status/611247772587687936

That'll probably be issue #5 or 6.  supreme illuminati


You're late. You got scooped by The Vibranium Trumpet.





I (and some other members of the HEF) don't have to settle for less or agree that less is acceptable. What good does it serve the BP mythos to have Tchalla build an ark and not save Wakanda and its people? Were any Wakandans mentioned as being worth saving? I don't recall even seeing Wakandans board or disembark the planetary life raft that the Black Panther built. The Panther God is in the details.


Excellent point Ture!  Not only would T'Challa have gathered any remaining Wakandans onto the ark, but he would have foreseen the need for such before Reed suggested it and had multiple arks full of Wakandans ready to evacuate, perhaps even prior to the Cabal's final assault.

My two cents.

Peace,

Mont


Thanks Brother Kimoyo. Your two cents has been increased exponentially.

BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS...BREAKING NEWS...


The Vibranium Trumpet   *** Sounding the alarm... ***    The Vibranium Trumpet   *** Sounding the alarm... ***

Uh-oh This Tweet from Hickman.

Quote
Jonathan Hickman ‏@JHickman  10h10 hours ago
Finally wrote the scene whiny Black Panther and Namor fans have been waiting for.


What does this mean? Fans of Black Panther and fans of Namor can't possibly want the same thing. I guess we'll see soon. Stay tuned.


Quote
What's going to happen for TChalla during the parts of Battleworld that we haven't seen yet?  supreme illuminati


I don't know. Judging from these covers however not much.









« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 08:29:16 am by Ture »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2579 on: June 29, 2015, 01:30:48 am »
Quote
You know what happens for TChalla after Battleworld?  supreme illuminati


No, my friend and maybe you don't either.



Quote
Several months ago, Marvel tipped its hand about All-New, All-Different Avengers; one of the first comics slated to launch after Secret Wars wraps up this fall. As expected, writer Mark Waid and Mahmud Asrar will be the creative team with artist Adam Kubert sharing art duties with Asrar as the series releases more than 12 issues per year.

The new lineup of Avengers: Spider-Man (Miles Morales), Iron Man, Captain America (Sam Wilson), Ms. Marvel, Thor (Jane Foster), and The Vision.

Full article   http://www.craveonline.com/comics/articles/871119-marvel-unveils-new-lineups-avengers-squadron-supreme





That's a sensible post. The only thing that I can respond with is this post here made this month, just barely a few weeks ago:

http://comicbook.com/2015/06/04/marvel-teases-the-post-secret-wars-all-new-all-different-marvel-/


There's TChalla listed front and center. Plain as day. The rumor mill is going overtime. But. Financial viability diversity and simple logic makes it a no-brainer that TChalla will be there. Huge as The Avengers roster is? Practically every hero can legitimately be listed at some point. And given TChalla's role in the MCU? He can be a core member of The Avengers for a few arcs then off doing his own thing in the next arc. But until he gets his own series? It's a safe smart bet...a bet on Marvel's own desire to increase its marketability and reach a more diverse audience...that TChalla who is starring in next year's surefire blockbuster Captain America flick will also be in THE ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT AVENGERS.

If Marvel tries to throw you off the scent? Remember Flava Flav and Don't Believe The Hype.
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