Poll

BP710 Story Ideas     Deadlines for selection: November 22, 2017

Death Be Not Proud-The final days of T'Chaka the Black Panther
1 (16.7%)
Lost in Space-The search for the Vibranium asteroid field
2 (33.3%)
Doomwar-The Black Payback: T'Challa v Doom as it should've been
0 (0%)
Black on Black violence-The on panel fight between the Black Panther and Black Dwarf
0 (0%)
Where is the Love-The romance of T'Challa and Ororo
0 (0%)
Sweat of the Panther-Steampunk Wakanda
1 (16.7%)
Beware Of Geek's Reply #4210 on: October 22, 2017, 07:39:29 am
1 (16.7%)
Battle's Supreme nomination  Reply #4208 on: October 22, 2017, 04:59:32 am
1 (16.7%)
Kickin' it with Kip Lewis Reply #4238 on: October 25, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
0 (0%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: November 22, 2017, 07:45:54 pm

Author Topic: BP710: THE PROTOCOLS - Forever King - Chadwick Boseman - My STA Interview  (Read 1305664 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2640 on: July 11, 2015, 11:54:41 am »
Secret Wars #8



If this is the final issue, it appears it maybe another iteration of Dr. (err God) Doom vs Reed Richards. Hickman continues to tread in the footprints laid by predecessor Maberry in allocating the Black Panther a substantial yet still supporting role in a "major Doom event." I question whether or not if Tchalla's showings in New Avengers and Secret Wars have impressed and enticed fans both new and old to invest in the character? Were there enough stand out performances? This cover may hold some clues.



1) Birth of Namor
2) ??? (Human Torch?)
3) Celestials
4) Radioactive Spider
5) ??? (Star-Lord?)
6) Eternity, Oblivion?, and ???
7) Galactus
8) Tony Stark with alcohol
9) Thanos and Death
10) Hulk & ??? (someone's eyes)
11) Molecule Man silhouette
12) Asgard
13) Reed & Doom
14) Thing, Sue, and Franklin?
15) Jean Grey, Storm, and Cyclops
16) Nick Fury & Howling Commandos
17) Wild West Characters (???)
18) Spider-Man
19) Bomb/Missile (Gamma Bomb?)
20) Elektra & Bullseye
21) Vision
22) ???
23) Attilan
24) Green Goblin
25) ??? (Wolverine?)

cortresy of CBR's idisestablish

Quote
I'm thinking 5 is the Gamma Bomb accident that created The Hulk
Is 22 Banner coming down from Hulking out?
6 I got LT Infinity and Eternity
is 25 Luke Cage? only reason I say is the figure looks behind bars and I think theres a slight hint of a Afro
is 19 the FF rocket getting bombarded with cosmic rays   Dabpool


Quote
I am going to say 22 is Steve Rogers during the injection of the super soldier serum.
2 Dr Strange against Dormammu.   ian0delond


As evidenced the Black Panther has no representation on this cover. Perhaps there will be multiple covers and Tchalla may yet appear. Maybe in the final issue if not before we will witness Tchalla demonstrating a premeditated plan for the salvation of his people and nation; having restored his ancestors faith in him and reaffirming the trust of his people.  If not Reed defeats Doom, wields that god power and restores his spiritual brother's family and nation.



How often has TChalla been on a cover of Hickman's SW?

Who would make more sales in the current [ but changing ] LCBRD population: Reed, Doom, Reed+Doom...or TChalla in the place of either of those characters right now?

The answer to those questions lets you know the economic imperatives that also drive the story we see. This stuff you note above? Is NOT a surprise. Like I have said a zillion times now, TChalla's true momentum is gathering and will hit its stride in 2016 with the drop of CA:CW and all that other stuff. Putting TChalla in a super major leading position now would hamper the sales of SW, and retard the slow but budding momentum for TChalla that will kick up a notch with ULTIMATES [ our TChalla does NOT die ] and thenceforward to and thru CA:CW.

Like I said a zillion times now...any fly stuff affecting TChalla specifically in ways that we HEFfas might approve would not happen in SW, it'll happen with Ewing or [ most likely ] whoever authors TChalla's solo.

Dare we hope that Marvel brings CJP back to write TChalla's adventures in this newer more supportive environment? I wouldn't even dare to hope such a thing. It's way too sensible, desirable and needed. So of course it won't happen.

CJP writing TChalla. RH directing TChalla's big screen debut. Too much good sense for Marvel to possibly countenance. So. RH won't get a crack at BP and CJP will stay in the shadows, even though he is hands down theee greatest and funniest uberscheming man with the plan supercool unflappable unknowable King TChalla plot scripter in the world, just as RH is theee greatest HARDCORE BLACK Panther scriptor of all time.

I seriously doubt that Marvel kills and then resurrects the real TChalla. That is a magnificently stupid thing to do.

However, I heard they did exactly that with an alleged Prince of Orphans vs TChalla fight. In fact, I addressed that in my fanfic.

But that POO hit the fan when the POO [ yes, I had D'Ciggs make that joke in my fanfic...Prince Of Orphans=P.O.O. ] vs BP happening under the hegemony of the X-Office's sway in Marvel.  They had Tea Party level multiple toe curling hategasms because The Almighty Reginald Hudlin put that Black Boot Stomp X-Clan Style on they punk butts.

In the new, belated attempt to draw in diverse readers [ 20 years after CJP called for it, let's not forget ]...killing the top dawg Black character is a hellafied no-no. It's takes away money AND it's stupid story-wise. In hating on TChalla before? Marvel satisfied the X-crement Fans and actually made more money for their not so subtle "WE HATE BLACK MEN AND BLACK LOVE" stories.
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2641 on: July 11, 2015, 12:16:01 pm »
I seriously doubt that Marvel kills and then resurrects the real TChalla. That is a magnificently stupid thing to do.   

Didn't they do that with Cap with his first movie?  They killed at end of Civil War,  brought him back to life a year before the movie but didn't put him back in the costume until  after the movie came out.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2642 on: July 11, 2015, 01:48:36 pm »
I seriously doubt that Marvel kills and then resurrects the real TChalla. That is a magnificently stupid thing to do.   

Didn't they do that with Cap with his first movie?  They killed at end of Civil War,  brought him back to life a year before the movie but didn't put him back in the costume until  after the movie came out.

they could do that with Cap because he already had decades of outstanding performance and hardcore fans in multitudes. TChalla is relatively unknown but is a major capstone in diversity. Starting off your dedication to cultivating a more diverse fanbase by killing the single most outstanding international character who is the role model for the world's supercapes like Captain America is the role model for the USA's super capes is very bad idea.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2643 on: July 11, 2015, 01:55:40 pm »
Secret Wars #8



If this is the final issue, it appears it maybe another iteration of Dr. (err God) Doom vs Reed Richards. Hickman continues to tread in the footprints laid by predecessor Maberry in allocating the Black Panther a substantial yet still supporting role in a "major Doom event." I question whether or not if Tchalla's showings in New Avengers and Secret Wars have impressed and enticed fans both new and old to invest in the character? Were there enough stand out performances? This cover may hold some clues.



1) Birth of Namor
2) ??? (Human Torch?)
3) Celestials
4) Radioactive Spider
5) ??? (Star-Lord?)
6) Eternity, Oblivion?, and ???
7) Galactus
8) Tony Stark with alcohol
9) Thanos and Death
10) Hulk & ??? (someone's eyes)
11) Molecule Man silhouette
12) Asgard
13) Reed & Doom
14) Thing, Sue, and Franklin?
15) Jean Grey, Storm, and Cyclops
16) Nick Fury & Howling Commandos
17) Wild West Characters (???)
18) Spider-Man
19) Bomb/Missile (Gamma Bomb?)
20) Elektra & Bullseye
21) Vision
22) ???
23) Attilan
24) Green Goblin
25) ??? (Wolverine?)

cortresy of CBR's idisestablish


As evidenced the Black Panther has no representation on this cover. Perhaps there will be multiple covers and Tchalla may yet appear. Maybe in the final issue if not before we will witness Tchalla demonstrating a premeditated plan for the salvation of his people and nation; having restored his ancestors faith in him and reaffirming the trust of his people.  If not Reed defeats Doom, wields that god power and restores his spiritual brother's family and nation.



...Like I said a zillion times now...any fly stuff affecting TChalla specifically in ways that we HEFfas might approve would not happen in SW, it'll happen with Ewing or [ most likely ] whoever authors TChalla's solo.


With respect Brother SI, you appear to be attempting to move the finish line.  This thread contains voluminous support of Hickman by you predicting his rehabilitation of T'Challa by the end of his story.  In fact, you have urged all to withhold judgement until the story's end even as you crowed, prematurely, over the supposed killing of Namor orchestrated by T'Challa?  Now we are to wait for Ewing or some other writer to restore T'Challa to competence stiil, somehow owing such rehabilitation to Hickman's plotting?

T'Challa is a major piece in Hickman's tome but doesn't warrant one of the 25 images allotted on the "Alex Ross" cover of SW #8?  Peter Parker has two and he hasn't even been as involved in the story.  I agree that the movies are largely irrelevant to the plans for the books, but if there was any consideration of increasing T'Challa's profile through the books wouldn't he warrant an image on the highest profile cover of the culminating issue of Hickman's all-encompassing, universe-wide epic?  It's been clear for a while now that this was coming down to Reed vs. Doom, but how is he not pictured over, and I'm being conservative, images #6, 15, 19, 20, or 24?

Peace,

Mont






Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2644 on: July 11, 2015, 02:02:30 pm »
Not moving the finish line, Brother Kimoyo. I simply foresaw the future much more clearly.

You see..as I repeatedly stated...Wakanda IS NOT destroyed. And. In Secret Wars? You misquoted Doc Strange. Stephen said MUCH OF A PLACE THAT WAS KNOWN AS WAKANDA STILL EXISTS in Egyptia.

And TChalla. King of the mightiest civilization of the world, Wakanda. Is alive and well. In Al Ewing's Ultimates. In the ALL-NEW ALL-DIFFERENT MARVEL UNIVERSE. Precisely as I predicted since BEFORE Hickman's Time Ran Out story was even done.

http://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-ultimates-interview/

" Black Panther. The most politically powerful hero in the Marvel Universe, Iíd say. The reigning king of one of Marvel-Earthís major technological powers ó I donít think calling Wakanda a superpower is any kind of stretch. The Ultimates is as much a Wakandan enterprise as it is an American one ó itís very in tune with that idea of having a plan in your desk drawer for when Galactus drops by.
Wakandaís always been very cagey about exporting Vibranium and its technological breakthroughs, and with good reason, but I feel like theyíd be more willing to collaborate with other nations on matters of defending Earth against extra-terrestrial and extra-dimensional threats ó thatís a case where everyone benefits. Nobody wants Earth to blow up. (Again.)


Itís going to be a lot of fun putting TíChalla and Adam in the same room..."



CA: This is notably a very diverse team, as were your two Mighty Avengers rosters, but now we also have a diverse main Avengers team as well. Why do you think this sort of diversity is so important?


AE: I think itís important in the way that a roof is important. If youíre moving into a building and the landlord says ďoh, and we have ó get this ó a roof! And four walls! Weíre not just a hole someone dug in the street!ď, you donít start giving out medals for that. Thatís just a basic thing that ought to be standard. Itís just fiction reflecting reality ó there are all kinds of people in the world, and we should reflect that properly and try not to screw up. To be honest, I think thereís a long way to go in a lot of ways, both on the page and off.

Heads are quoting CJP twenty years later, and our won RH nearly ten years later...but at least now they're quoting and doing something right about it.

Waitaminnit. Didn't a Supremely Illuminated Person say this was gonna happen?


Read More: Squad Goals: Meet the Team in Al Ewing's 'Ultimates' | http://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-ultimates-interview/?trackback=tsmclip


Read More: Squad Goals: Meet the Team in Al Ewing's 'Ultimates' | http://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-ultimates-interview/?trackback=tsmclip..."
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:30:38 pm by supreme illuminati »
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http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2645 on: July 11, 2015, 02:22:41 pm »
Secret Wars #8



If this is the final issue, it appears it maybe another iteration of Dr. (err God) Doom vs Reed Richards. Hickman continues to tread in the footprints laid by predecessor Maberry in allocating the Black Panther a substantial yet still supporting role in a "major Doom event." I question whether or not if Tchalla's showings in New Avengers and Secret Wars have impressed and enticed fans both new and old to invest in the character? Were there enough stand out performances? This cover may hold some clues.



1) Birth of Namor
2) ??? (Human Torch?)
3) Celestials
4) Radioactive Spider
5) ??? (Star-Lord?)
6) Eternity, Oblivion?, and ???
7) Galactus
8) Tony Stark with alcohol
9) Thanos and Death
10) Hulk & ??? (someone's eyes)
11) Molecule Man silhouette
12) Asgard
13) Reed & Doom
14) Thing, Sue, and Franklin?
15) Jean Grey, Storm, and Cyclops
16) Nick Fury & Howling Commandos
17) Wild West Characters (???)
18) Spider-Man
19) Bomb/Missile (Gamma Bomb?)
20) Elektra & Bullseye
21) Vision
22) ???
23) Attilan
24) Green Goblin
25) ??? (Wolverine?)

cortresy of CBR's idisestablish


As evidenced the Black Panther has no representation on this cover. Perhaps there will be multiple covers and Tchalla may yet appear. Maybe in the final issue if not before we will witness Tchalla demonstrating a premeditated plan for the salvation of his people and nation; having restored his ancestors faith in him and reaffirming the trust of his people.  If not Reed defeats Doom, wields that god power and restores his spiritual brother's family and nation.



...Like I said a zillion times now...any fly stuff affecting TChalla specifically in ways that we HEFfas might approve would not happen in SW, it'll happen with Ewing or [ most likely ] whoever authors TChalla's solo.


With respect Brother SI, you appear to be attempting to move the finish line.  This thread contains voluminous support of Hickman by you predicting his rehabilitation of T'Challa by the end of his story.  In fact, you have urged all to withhold judgement until the story's end even as you crowed, prematurely, over the supposed killing of Namor orchestrated by T'Challa?  Now we are to wait for Ewing or some other writer to restore T'Challa to competence stiil, somehow owing such rehabilitation to Hickman's plotting?

T'Challa is a major piece in Hickman's tome but doesn't warrant one of the 25 images allotted on the "Alex Ross" cover of SW #8?  Peter Parker has two and he hasn't even been as involved in the story.  I agree that the movies are largely irrelevant to the plans for the books, but if there was any consideration of increasing T'Challa's profile through the books wouldn't he warrant an image on the highest profile cover of the culminating issue of Hickman's all-encompassing, universe-wide epic?  It's been clear for a while now that this was coming down to Reed vs. Doom, but how is he not pictured over, and I'm being conservative, images #6, 15, 19, 20, or 24?

Peace,

Mont



With great respect Brother Mont...you're RIGHT. I said almost everything you opine above. But your comments are ALSO OUT OF CONTEXT as I SAID MORE THAN THAT. You emphasized only part of my response.

I keep saying over and over again that Hickman is a long game kind of guy. Each piece of one thing will be a part of and help launch another thing. A micro focus on a detail misses the huge panoramic story. And the huge panoramic story is comprised of a multitude of microdetails.

Perhaps I have not been expressing myself clearly. For that, I apologize.

Let me be succinct.

I saw that Hickman's approach is the only approach that would set TChalla in this environment on a path to permanently return OUR TChalla to us and make OUR TChalla THEE STANDARD, DEFAULT TCHALLA for ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN MARVEL WRITING HIM. That means? The FANS will see OUR TChalla as THEE STANDARD, DEFAULT TCHALLA as well.

Every other attempt has failed. Hickman's is succeeding.

With me so far?

Until The Ultimates launches...and oftentimes there, as well... TChalla will periodically take a back seat to more powerfully supported LCBRD characters until the momentum that Hickman is bequeathing to him and hands off to other writers culminates in him KATN during his own movie trilogy. The days of his trilogy will literally be the zenith of the character's career thus far.

The ULTIMATES will not be a "TCHALLA IS BETTER THAN YALL MOFO'S" story. It's a team book. Any team book cannot be boiled down to a one character blowjob. Even Hickman's epic SW isn't a Doom+Reed blowjob. It shows a heckuva lot more than that. But at the same time? What Marvel rivalry is still the one that is the biggest and oldest? Reed and Doom. Even moreso than Wolverine and Sabertooth, Professor X and Magneto, etc etc.

Hickman will keep TChalla as basically 3rd or 4th dawg...less prominent than Reed, Doom, and maybe Tony Starks...in SW. [ If Tony shows up in SW as I think he probably will ]. But TChalla will play pivotal roles that will lead to his significantly but carefully calibrated and escalated role in THE ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT MARVEL UNIVERSE. The role he plays in ULTIMATES will further propel the character forward and establish him as a megaforce to be reckoned with...AND place him squarely within the cape community WITHOUT removing his Kingly duties. But this will happen in carefully choreographed phases. No major leaps from nowhere to everywhere. Marvel learned from the last few attempts on TChalla's behalf.

As one of our Brothers stated before...and was remonstrated with for saying so...TChalla IS looked upon as MORE HERO THAN KING. Truth is? For the popularity of the character to continue on a ever steepening incline? The Hero>King equation is what is needed until around or just before the time of Civil War. That perspective is most likely to change or balance only if a Black writer is writing TChalla's SOLO series. A solo series is at least a year from now.

So. Between now and TChalla's movie and solo series debut? TChalla will enjoy a steadily rising but not world devouring profile. This is the way to keep the character relevant, implant him PERMANENTLY as OUR TChalla, aaaaannnd write sensible stories that are good all around.

TChalla pimp slapping Doom or Thanos? Even though they deserve it? Not happening. Until a solo comes around.

What consolation prize do we have for this?

TChalla is an equal partner in formulating thee most powerful superpowered supergenius squad on Earth. The Ultimates. And they take on cosmic threats regularly. When have we ever seen TChalla take on cosmic threats regularly? Oh...that was Hickman, wasn't it? Now...exactly as our own R to the H said should happen...TChalla is gallivanting across the world and the cosmos with the baddest of the bad, smartest of the smart, sexiest of the sexy, and taking on all the megathreats like whoa.

How do I know? Because of this right here:

CA: A team like this is going to have to face some monumental threats. Can you drop any hints about the sort of craziness youíll be asking Kenneth to draw?


AE: Well, we start off with a Galactus two-parter thatíll probably go further than people are expecting. I mean it ó you might think you know whatís going to happen, but unless youíre a very good guesser, you donít.
Following that, we have a trek to the outside of the Omniverse, a journey into the dreams of the Dreaming Celestial, and the return of one of the oldest and strangest creatures in the Marvel Universe. Itís going to be a fun ride.


Read More: Squad Goals: Meet the Team in Al Ewing's 'Ultimates' | http://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-ultimates-interview/?trackback=tsmclip

Who set that up? Oh yeah. Hickman with an assist to Ewing, who hits that trey ball from downtown. FTW.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 02:39:03 pm by supreme illuminati »
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2646 on: July 11, 2015, 02:54:15 pm »
Regarding the Alex Ross cover and BP missing from it.  Hickman probably had nothing to do with that and Ross could have drawn that without having read one issue of SW. 


.   " Black Panther. The most politically powerful hero in the Marvel Universe, Iíd say. The reigning king of one of Marvel-Earthís major technological powers ó I donít think calling Wakanda a superpower is any kind of stretch. The Ultimates is as much a Wakandan enterprise as it is an American one ó itís very in tune with that idea of having a plan in your desk drawer for when Galactus drops by.
Wakandaís always been very cagey about exporting Vibranium and its technological breakthroughs, and with good reason, but I feel like theyíd be more willing to collaborate with other nations on matters of defending Earth against extra-terrestrial and extra-dimensional threats ó thatís a case where everyone benefits. Nobody wants Earth to blow up. (Again.)


Itís going to be a lot of fun putting TíChalla and Adam in the same room..."
 


You do realize that he said Wakanda is one of Marvel's major technological powers, not the technological power.  I also wonder how he plans to play Adam's super intellect against BP's.

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2647 on: July 11, 2015, 04:44:31 pm »
Looking at the cover of Ultimates #1, I can't help but remember the excitement and anticipation surrounding issue #1 from the last iteration of New Avengers; T'Challa upfront and centering the Illuminati with the world in his hands.  The hope I had for restoration, through episode 3...9..12. 

I have considered, Kip, that Hickman may have had little if anything to do with Alex Ross' cover to SW #8.  I suppose he had some influence on the central focus, Reed v Doom, but my point was more toward a missed opportunity and an apparent lack of concern by Marvel to promote T'Challa/BP having a role in its most prominent storyline.

So to be clear, we're looking beyond the Hickman, "Everything Dies," 3-4 year odyssey, to the Ultimates and Ewing for T'Challa's restoration?  Believe me, I'm more than ready to move on from Hickman's interpretation.  We've heard praise for T'Challa and Wakanda before.  Now we can only hope Ewing's interpretation is true to the character and this advance press, right?

By the way, I've seen comments about this new team that indicate some fanboys are no more impressed with T'Challa's credentials than they likely ever were?

Peace,

Mont





Offline Ture

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2648 on: July 11, 2015, 04:48:42 pm »
Quote
How often has TChalla been on a cover of Hickman's SW?    supreme illuminati






The fact that the Black Panther is not prominent is equatable to his value in the story. So why does he need to be in majors events if he is just fodder?

Quote
Who would make more sales in the current [ but changing ] LCBRD population: Reed, Doom, Reed+Doom...or TChalla in the place of either of those characters right now?   supreme illuminati


Good question, lets see...

NEW AVENGERS #1  116,280   



compared to...

NEW AVENGERS #33  55,437



now just in case you were thinking it was unfair because it is a number one versus a number thirty three...

NEW AVENGERS #7  60,138
   


I seriously doubt that Marvel kills and then resurrects the real TChalla. That is a magnificently stupid thing to do.   

Didn't they do that with Cap with his first movie?  They killed at end of Civil War,  brought him back to life a year before the movie but didn't put him back in the costume until  after the movie came out.


they could do that with Cap because he already had decades of outstanding performance and hardcore fans in multitudes. TChalla is relatively unknown but is a major capstone in diversity. Starting off your dedication to cultivating a more diverse fanbase by killing the single most outstanding international character who is the role model for the world's supercapes like Captain America is the role model for the USA's super capes is very bad idea.


Thus by your own assertion "TChalla is relatively unknown" who doesn't have "decades of outstanding performance" which would include his time spent under Hickman, the same writer you've been championing would deliver the Black Panther from the mundane.

Quote
With respect Brother SI, you appear to be attempting to move the finish line.  This thread contains voluminous support of Hickman by you predicting his rehabilitation of T'Challa by the end of his story.  In fact, you have urged all to withhold judgement until the story's end even as you crowed, prematurely, over the supposed killing of Namor orchestrated by T'Challa?  Now we are to wait for Ewing or some other writer to restore T'Challa to competence stiil, somehow owing such rehabilitation to Hickman's plotting?   Kimoyo

Not moving the finish line, Brother Kimoyo. I simply foresaw the future much more clearly.


Brother Supreme your vision is convoluted.

With all due respect (and a sense of humor  ;D ;D) Your insistence on repetition not withstanding...

Quote
As I recall, I was one of the first on this board...in fact, THEE first...to guess that this story might very well be some far flung horror morality play.


Quote
I was right all along.


Quote
Years ago, I was the first to point out this issue and cite the solution that others have repeatedly cited since...a pocket dimension or some other off world off dimension solution.


Quote
And there's some shocking reveals in there that are along the lines of what I predicted.


Quote
I was the first to correctly forecast that Hickman was writing a horror/morality play/study of heroism dressed up as a whodunit.


Quote
I think...and I've said this before, too


Quote
As you know, Brother Ture, I have repeatedly over the years cited that very passage you cite above as one of my favorite quotes from BP of all time. I specifically referenced this exchange during my debate with LOVECRAFTY. So my position on this matter has been clear for years, and shown to be in complete accord with yours. Even before you specified your position and even before you graced this board with your posts.


Quote
Exactly as I repeatedly stated


and just today...

Quote
I keep saying over and over again


Quote
Like I said a zillion times now...


I begin to sense a pattern Brother Supreme, by championing  Hickman I'm forced to quote L'Boogie in saying "You might win some but you just lost one."

You backed the wrong horse and now you're going back into the stable with hopes of finding a new one. The argument was never based on what could happen for the BP in the nebulous future but what we have witnessed thus far. So what if Wakanda is brought back, the fact remains it was destroyed twice before the first incursion. The fact remains Tchalla did not exact the proper penance for such an affront. The fact is to date Hickman has chumped Tchalla. For all you know it is possible and dare I say probable that the trend of jobbing BP may continue into Ewings The Ultimates. Your best advice is something you should heed yourself. Wait and see what is actually delivered.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2015, 05:07:23 pm by Ture »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2649 on: July 12, 2015, 01:04:38 pm »
Regarding the Alex Ross cover and BP missing from it.  Hickman probably had nothing to do with that and Ross could have drawn that without having read one issue of SW. 


.   " Black Panther. The most politically powerful hero in the Marvel Universe, Iíd say. The reigning king of one of Marvel-Earthís major technological powers ó I donít think calling Wakanda a superpower is any kind of stretch. The Ultimates is as much a Wakandan enterprise as it is an American one ó itís very in tune with that idea of having a plan in your desk drawer for when Galactus drops by.
Wakandaís always been very cagey about exporting Vibranium and its technological breakthroughs, and with good reason, but I feel like theyíd be more willing to collaborate with other nations on matters of defending Earth against extra-terrestrial and extra-dimensional threats ó thatís a case where everyone benefits. Nobody wants Earth to blow up. (Again.)


Itís going to be a lot of fun putting TíChalla and Adam in the same room..."
 


You do realize that he said Wakanda is one of Marvel's major technological powers, not the technological power.  I also wonder how he plans to play Adam's super intellect against BP's.


yes I realize that he said that Wakanda is ONE of Marvel's major tech powers. That was a big thing, to me. Only two writers came out and said Wakanda was the PINNACLE human civilization: R to the H, who set Wakanda as the premier world civilziation unquestioned, and Hickman who specifically had TChaka state that the Golden City is the hope of humanity.

However, everyone else never stated Wakanda was the SUPREME power of Earth. Not even CJP, who is the unquestioned writer who really put BP on the modern map and is the source of the flyness which all others have drawn upon when they write BP properly.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2015, 08:55:37 am by supreme illuminati »
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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2650 on: July 13, 2015, 10:02:07 am »
Quote
How often has TChalla been on a cover of Hickman's SW?    supreme illuminati






The fact that the Black Panther is not prominent is equatable to his value in the story. So why does he need to be in majors events if he is just fodder?

Brother Ture. The answer to the above is immediately obvious. 1. TChalla is not going to lead a major event unless a Black writer is the author of the major event. Even so? Major events are TEAM oriented. So TChalla will by necessity get less shine than he would in a solo, even if a Black author specifically intended to write a maximally formidable TChalla as the star of some Marvel Event.

2. As RH and CJP...but most especially RH...very correctly noted and underscored: TChalla is a A-Lister who needs to be a respected and formidable part of EVERY Marvel Event from now on. Real talk? Even when TChalla isn't casually outsmarting supergeniuses and pimp slapping people in these Events--which we need more of, btw--his very presence is a MAJOR improvement and necessity. "Hey folks, there are people of color who are genuinely formidable heroes, too." Prior to the elevation of BP to EVENT status by RH? Name ONE event that he was written as a formidable presence in. Then name ANOTHER event that followed sequentially upon it, and BP was both in that event AND formidable as expressed by friend and foe alike. Because of the Almighty RH, I will give you two off top: CIVIL WAR and SECRET INVASION. TChalla most definitely needs to be seen as a leading light...basically shoulder to shoulder...with Reed in megaevents like this one. Who else is a person of color even remotely shown as prominently as TChalla is? Much less shown as repeatedly given respect by friend and foe alike? I know I know...oh MAN did Hickman screw TChalla in various ways. WMDs actually in Necropolis proper? Let's just skip the absurdity of a Wakandan place rockin a GREEK/Roman name [ Necropolis ]. Didn't we learn anything from CIVIL WAR and 42? Yeah. Keep that mess OFF EARTH, and directly monitored by one of The Illuminati. TChalla crying because he couldn't nuke a world. TChalla showing the massive ubergenius and inner equilibrium to craft THE ARK even after Wakanda was destroyed [ crazy props ] dropped in the wake of the reality that: WAKANDA SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN DESTROYED. Not like THAT, anyway. I could buy Thanos destroying the physical quasi-Wakanda on Earth. But NOT the WAKANDANS AS A GROUP being wiped out; pretty much to leave TChalla solo.

But did we really see that Wakanda and every living soul was extinguished?

No. We didn't.

Wakanda THE COUNTRY was destroyed. Something that we must all be honest and say that we could see Thanos do. But THE PEOPLE of Wakanda survived. Or more specifically? Their epitaph was never written. Therefore, it's just like TChalla to secretively protect them and not mention them from that point forward...until it suited him to do so.

http://marvel.wikia.com/Wakanda

Nowhere in there does it say that TChalla is the sole survivor of Wakanda. It says that Wakanda has been destroyed. Like Asgard and Olympus etc etc before it.   


Quote
Who would make more sales in the current [ but changing ] LCBRD population: Reed, Doom, Reed+Doom...or TChalla in the place of either of those characters right now?   supreme illuminati


Good question, lets see...

NEW AVENGERS #1  116,280   



compared to...

NEW AVENGERS #33  55,437



now just in case you were thinking it was unfair because it is a number one versus a number thirty three...

NEW AVENGERS #7  60,138
   


You knew I was going to catch you on this one, Brother Ture. A comparison of the sales of a bigbook during its first 12 issues and during its last 12 issues is consistently and amazingly off base.  I think we all know comics sales trends well enough to knows this to be true without much debate, so...I'll just say that you compared the last 12 issues to the first 12 issues. Which is verboten and slanted. Was TChalla featured as a solo cover on any issue from 33-40? If so, you can make a more accurate comparison to the sales between the Doom cover and the TChalla cover at that point in time.

I seriously doubt that Marvel kills and then resurrects the real TChalla. That is a magnificently stupid thing to do.   

Didn't they do that with Cap with his first movie?  They killed at end of Civil War,  brought him back to life a year before the movie but didn't put him back in the costume until  after the movie came out.


they could do that with Cap because he already had decades of outstanding performance and hardcore fans in multitudes. TChalla is relatively unknown but is a major capstone in diversity. Starting off your dedication to cultivating a more diverse fanbase by killing the single most outstanding international character who is the role model for the world's supercapes like Captain America is the role model for the USA's super capes is very bad idea.


Thus by your own assertion "TChalla is relatively unknown" who doesn't have "decades of outstanding performance" which would include his time spent under Hickman, the same writer you've been championing would deliver the Black Panther from the mundane.

Brother Ture. TChalla IS relatively unknown to the LCBRD. When compared to Steve Rogers. C'mon, bruh, you know this. Ask the LCBRD who are Steve's top villains. Names pop up instantly. They'll say Red Skull. Zemo. Zola. Etc. Now. Ask them who's TChalla's main baddie. NOBODY will say KILLMONGER. They still don't know much about TChalla, other than he's a decent to cool African King with a cool outfit and tech. And in their minds? He can't trump their White A-Listers, like Cap.A Top 3 White A-Lister.

Quote
With respect Brother SI, you appear to be attempting to move the finish line.  This thread contains voluminous support of Hickman by you predicting his rehabilitation of T'Challa by the end of his story.  In fact, you have urged all to withhold judgement until the story's end even as you crowed, prematurely, over the supposed killing of Namor orchestrated by T'Challa?  Now we are to wait for Ewing or some other writer to restore T'Challa to competence stiil, somehow owing such rehabilitation to Hickman's plotting?   Kimoyo

Not moving the finish line, Brother Kimoyo. I simply foresaw the future much more clearly.


Brother Supreme your vision is convoluted.

With all due respect (and a sense of humor  ;D ;D) Your insistence on repetition not withstanding...

Quote
As I recall, I was one of the first on this board...in fact, THEE first...to guess that this story might very well be some far flung horror morality play.


Quote
I was right all along.


Quote
Years ago, I was the first to point out this issue and cite the solution that others have repeatedly cited since...a pocket dimension or some other off world off dimension solution.


Quote
And there's some shocking reveals in there that are along the lines of what I predicted.


Quote
I was the first to correctly forecast that Hickman was writing a horror/morality play/study of heroism dressed up as a whodunit.


Quote
I think...and I've said this before, too


Quote
As you know, Brother Ture, I have repeatedly over the years cited that very passage you cite above as one of my favorite quotes from BP of all time. I specifically referenced this exchange during my debate with LOVECRAFTY. So my position on this matter has been clear for years, and shown to be in complete accord with yours. Even before you specified your position and even before you graced this board with your posts.


Quote
Exactly as I repeatedly stated


and just today...

Quote
I keep saying over and over again


Quote
Like I said a zillion times now...


I begin to sense a pattern Brother Supreme, by championing  Hickman I'm forced to quote L'Boogie in saying "You might win some but you just lost one."

I said every quote you noted, Brother Ture. But...lemme see your L-Boogie "You might win some but you just lost one" with two quotes:

Wesley Snipes. Passenger 57: ALWAYS BET ON BLACK [ PANTHER ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTDeOPFr9e4


And remember like I keep tellin yall. It's the LONG GAME. Hickman is bringing TChalla to a PERMANENT LEVEL OF ELEVATION in surreptitious degrees. He's sneaking TChalla up not on US, but on the LCBRD.

Let Denzel tell you what it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW4zXiZh6p8

CHESS. NOT CHECKERS. Memba dat, Bruthas.



You backed the wrong horse and now you're going back into the stable with hopes of finding a new one. The argument was never based on what could happen for the BP in the nebulous future but what we have witnessed thus far. So what if Wakanda is brought back, the fact remains it was destroyed twice before the first incursion. The fact remains Tchalla did not exact the proper penance for such an affront. The fact is to date Hickman has chumped Tchalla. For all you know it is possible and dare I say probable that the trend of jobbing BP may continue into Ewings The Ultimates. Your best advice is something you should heed yourself. Wait and see what is actually delivered.




Nah, my esteemed Brother. I am literally backing the literally WINNING horse. I mean. Literally.

As for your quotes of my words above? You're RIGHT. I said every letter you said I said. But...like Brother Mont...you didn't supply the remaining parts of the quote. The rest of my quote contains the vital info that puts everything in perspective. I even explained it again in this very thread and page.


Secret Wars #8



With great respect Brother Mont...you're RIGHT. I said almost everything you opine above. But your comments are ALSO OUT OF CONTEXT as I SAID MORE THAN THAT. You emphasized only part of my response.

I keep saying over and over again that Hickman is a long game kind of guy. Each piece of one thing will be a part of and help launch another thing. A micro focus on a detail misses the huge panoramic story. And the huge panoramic story is comprised of a multitude of microdetails.

Perhaps I have not been expressing myself clearly. For that, I apologize.

Let me be succinct.

I saw that Hickman's approach is the only approach that would set TChalla in this environment on a path to permanently return OUR TChalla to us and make OUR TChalla THEE STANDARD, DEFAULT TCHALLA for ANYONE AND EVERYONE IN MARVEL WRITING HIM. That means? The FANS will see OUR TChalla as THEE STANDARD, DEFAULT TCHALLA as well.

Every other attempt has failed. Hickman's is succeeding.

With me so far?

Until The Ultimates launches...and oftentimes there, as well... TChalla will periodically take a back seat to more powerfully supported LCBRD characters until the momentum that Hickman is bequeathing to him and hands off to other writers culminates in him KATN during his own movie trilogy. The days of his trilogy will literally be the zenith of the character's career thus far.

The ULTIMATES will not be a "TCHALLA IS BETTER THAN YALL MOFO'S" story. It's a team book. Any team book cannot be boiled down to a one character blowjob. Even Hickman's epic SW isn't a Doom+Reed blowjob. It shows a heckuva lot more than that. But at the same time? What Marvel rivalry is still the one that is the biggest and oldest? Reed and Doom. Even moreso than Wolverine and Sabertooth, Professor X and Magneto, etc etc.

Hickman will keep TChalla as basically 3rd or 4th dawg...less prominent than Reed, Doom, and maybe Tony Starks...in SW. [ If Tony shows up in SW as I think he probably will ]. But TChalla will play pivotal roles that will lead to his significantly but carefully calibrated and escalated role in THE ALL NEW ALL DIFFERENT MARVEL UNIVERSE. The role he plays in ULTIMATES will further propel the character forward and establish him as a megaforce to be reckoned with...AND place him squarely within the cape community WITHOUT removing his Kingly duties. But this will happen in carefully choreographed phases. No major leaps from nowhere to everywhere. Marvel learned from the last few attempts on TChalla's behalf.

As one of our Brothers stated before...and was remonstrated with for saying so...TChalla IS looked upon as MORE HERO THAN KING. Truth is? For the popularity of the character to continue on a ever steepening incline? The Hero>King equation is what is needed until around or just before the time of Civil War. That perspective is most likely to change or balance only if a Black writer is writing TChalla's SOLO series. A solo series is at least a year from now.

So. Between now and TChalla's movie and solo series debut? TChalla will enjoy a steadily rising but not world devouring profile. This is the way to keep the character relevant, implant him PERMANENTLY as OUR TChalla, aaaaannnd write sensible stories that are good all around.

TChalla pimp slapping Doom or Thanos? Even though they deserve it? Not happening. Until a solo comes around.

What consolation prize do we have for this?

TChalla is an equal partner in formulating thee most powerful superpowered supergenius squad on Earth. The Ultimates. And they take on cosmic threats regularly. When have we ever seen TChalla take on cosmic threats regularly? Oh...that was Hickman, wasn't it? Now...exactly as our own R to the H said should happen...TChalla is gallivanting across the world and the cosmos with the baddest of the bad, smartest of the smart, sexiest of the sexy, and taking on all the megathreats like whoa.

How do I know? Because of this right here:

CA: A team like this is going to have to face some monumental threats. Can you drop any hints about the sort of craziness youíll be asking Kenneth to draw?


AE: Well, we start off with a Galactus two-parter thatíll probably go further than people are expecting. I mean it ó you might think you know whatís going to happen, but unless youíre a very good guesser, you donít.
Following that, we have a trek to the outside of the Omniverse, a journey into the dreams of the Dreaming Celestial, and the return of one of the oldest and strangest creatures in the Marvel Universe. Itís going to be a fun ride.


Read More: Squad Goals: Meet the Team in Al Ewing's 'Ultimates' | http://comicsalliance.com/al-ewing-ultimates-interview/?trackback=tsmclip

Who set that up? Oh yeah. Hickman with an assist to Ewing, who hits that trey ball from downtown. FTW.
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Offline Ezyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2651 on: July 13, 2015, 12:48:42 pm »
So i just wanted to come on here and say hello to everyone, I am very new here and a new fan of BP.

I have been following this thread for a couple months now and the people here on HEF inspired me to dig around and find and read up on the black panther, and i gotta say, he is one awesome character. I have read all of his Solo's and have been scouring around trying to find anything else he is in, But the works from Christopher Priest and Reginald Hudlin have obviously been the greatest forms of T'challa.

I had a lot of fun reading up on the character and the biggest thing that surprised me is, although im familiar with a lot of the marvel characters, up until a couple months ago i had no idea who BP was and hadn't seen anything about him. and I think that's a shame really. I like alot of the marvel characters but being an African American i really like to read about Black heroes and enjoy seeing them in a position of relevance and standing with the big dogs. And i have to say though i knew (due to this forum) that BP was going to be stripped down hard during DW and AvX, I didn't realize how bad it was or how angry it made me (which is to say, I am glad i felt frustrated as it means that the character has grown on you) at how horribly treated he was and the break down of the fundamental key aspects that makes him so great.

I think i may have liked Christoper Priests version of BP the best simply because of how he was written and carried himself. he was a man of few words and everyone underestimated him and that bit them in the *** later on. That's not to say Hudlin's Creation isn't great because it shows BP really going toe to toe with heavy hitters and putting the smack down on enemies and friends alike.

I finished NA last week and i have to say, while Hickman hasn't completely clowned BP, there were some very disappointing panels and hey were a little painful to read (Letting Wakanda's future die in the first issue, having the golden city destroyed in such a poor manner, T'challa crying and being shamed etc.) because that's not at all how the character has been portrayed in the past and it seems so out of character for him.

When i read that part i honestly could see him actually pulling the trigger and silently mourning the deaths of the billions he just killed, followed swiftly with the beating he gave to Namor for instigating the fight with the great society ultimately leading to their deaths. I feel like the panels in which BP were shown could of done him some justice without putting him over the top and easing people into the idea of just how cool he is. Also i would of loved to see his fight with Black dwarf on panel and maybe even showing a scene of him standing over a kneeling black dwarf and saying something along the lines of "A fitting position when facing your lord" to go with his earlier statement of him being BD's new lord.

There is more i want to say, but for now i'll leave it at that, and will say HELLO HEF COMMUNITY I look forward to joining you all in great conversation.


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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2652 on: July 13, 2015, 01:41:52 pm »
Black Panther (Protagonist); ambushed and nearly assassinated, his homeland infiltrated, a coup affected, relatives and long time associates murdered, the country's most valuable resource confiscated, his wife and queen abducted, his throne lost all at the hands of Dr. Doom (Antagonist) who was so much more important than the Hero that neither the company (Marvel) nor the writer (Maberry) wanted to see the Villain receive so much as a comic book beating, let alone the summary execution Doom deserved?

Premiere power couple perhaps in all of comics, Black Panther/Storm (Protagonists); who took on and thwarted a Skrull invasion, who's marriage was important enough to draw the attention of Uatu (The Watcher) saw the marriage not just dissolved but annulled with ex-lovers actually coming to blows (on panel) instead of working out their differences as two grown people of color who not too long ago loved each other more than anything?

Black Panther (Protagonist); betrayed and set up for Doom's assassination attempt, his homeland destroyed by killer tidal waves, thousands of Wakandan citizens murdered all by an unrepentant Namor (Antagonist) who who was so much more important than the Hero that neither the company (Marvel) nor the writers (Bendis - Hickman) wanted to see the Villain justly punished for his deeds, the latter writer choosing instead to skirt said punishment, having T'Challa's bold proclamation of his intentions undermined not only by failure to follow through on his promise, but by treasonous acts, ex-communication by his people and ancestors, and a crying hissy-fit apparently supposed to punctuate a higher level of moral conviction?

'It's okay, all this had to happen so that we could get a T'Challa that would be more widely accepted by fanboys as a viable badass super who would be free to chase around the cosmos with Blue Marvel, Spectrum/Photon and Captain Marvel taking on Galactus and such.'

Really!?!  Really!?!  You don't give out an assist when a player picks up a loose ball and manages to hit a shot, assuming Ewing even draws iron?

Peace,

Mont

 

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2653 on: July 13, 2015, 01:45:18 pm »
Welcome Ezyo, to the HEH and to Black Panther!  Please don't think me rude, your post came in as I was submitting my reply.

Peace,

Mont

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2654 on: July 13, 2015, 03:18:51 pm »
Hello friend Amandla! (Had to use it atleast once) I take no offense, as i said, i have followed this forum for a while now and you among others seem to be well mannered and show lots of respect towards your fellow posters.

As for what you said above, it makes me cringe (especially doomwar) to see T'challa treated that way, in his own story and in the end doesn't even get to enforce any type of justice on doom, but rather gives a silly little speech after getting smacked around by him first then makes all the vibranium inert, and that's suppose to signify some sort of victory? at the very least, making the vibranium inert should of caused major damage to doom when T'challa shut it down maybe taking him to within a inch of his life, followed by T'challa laying to superb BP swag on him and telling to not ever F with him again (maybe even hinting as well that he didn't actually make it inert, or that he could reverse the process.) I knew what was going to happen but it was still hard to read regardless.

Also agree with the dealing of Namor being poor, he should of first beat him down way more after namor blew up the earth (Which i still think T'challa should of done it, and then beat Namor down for being an idiot and attacking the great society) and I think T'challa alone (not help from Black bolt) should of taken Namor down and actually killed him (Or would of, Namor would be on the verge of death and Thanos saves his sorry ***) by using his mega prep to set take him down. It seems like there was a lot of potential to make BP do some awesome/cool things subtlety that praises him master prep without making people foam at the mouth with anger.