Poll

BP710 Story Ideas     Deadlines for selection: November 22, 2017

Death Be Not Proud-The final days of T'Chaka the Black Panther
1 (16.7%)
Lost in Space-The search for the Vibranium asteroid field
2 (33.3%)
Doomwar-The Black Payback: T'Challa v Doom as it should've been
0 (0%)
Black on Black violence-The on panel fight between the Black Panther and Black Dwarf
0 (0%)
Where is the Love-The romance of T'Challa and Ororo
0 (0%)
Sweat of the Panther-Steampunk Wakanda
1 (16.7%)
Beware Of Geek's Reply #4210 on: October 22, 2017, 07:39:29 am
1 (16.7%)
Battle's Supreme nomination  Reply #4208 on: October 22, 2017, 04:59:32 am
1 (16.7%)
Kickin' it with Kip Lewis Reply #4238 on: October 25, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
0 (0%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: November 22, 2017, 07:45:54 pm

Author Topic: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS  (Read 1077093 times)

Offline Battle

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4545 on: May 26, 2019, 06:54:46 am »
The 710 universe Namor has yet to be fleshed out, thus his origin may differ from his 616 counterpart. As far as white people's racism is concerned it is a survival mechanism, one that helps ensure self perpetuation, a much needed tool in the deep recesses of space. For those whites who practice said racism it serves as a race first ideology that will not be abandoned in the near or far future nor in their imagination.



A survival mechanism?  ???

How so?

How you explain away white people who don't practice racism?    They do exist, y'know.

Offline Ezyo

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4546 on: May 26, 2019, 07:43:47 am »
[
I Like how it's put together but I agree with cville, I would keep Wakanda abd genocide, book haram, any form of allegory for  transatlantic  or colombus or anything that puts Wakanda in the same vein as the rest of the world. The only thing I would fault Wakanda for (which would be where T'Challa is different) would be then sticking to being isolationists due to not wanting to declare war against the world

I never envisioned Wakanda doing nothing during the wars, captivity, enslavement, mass killings, mass raping, occupation, and cultural subjugation of Afrakan people.

I was not alone in my thinking. Reginald Hudlin's Black to the Future.





Keep in mind this is the 710 universe and the current population, original inhabitants of this Atlantis have yet to be determined nor the circumstances concerning the sinking of the continent revealed. Rest assured there was no genocide committed in story nor intended or intimated by writer.

Even in Hudlin's run, Wakanda isn't directly interfering, which is my point that Wakanda would be subtle, but not directly involve themselves in the rest of the world's affairs.

Offline Ture

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4547 on: May 26, 2019, 09:26:52 am »
Wakanda attempts genocid??? I gotta hate on everything about this chapter.

Damn, I was so trying to avoid this. Now I know how Coates feels. While the details of the Wakandan Atlantean war have yet to be revealed Wakanda was not attempting genocide.

Considering Tchalla is saying this;

 "Only the intervention of the Celestials and their genetic experimentation which transformed your ancestors into Homo Aquatics preserved your miserable race's existence. "

And then Namor saying;

"The Wakandans failed attempt at genocide served only to unify and strengthen the resolve of Atlantis."

What else is a person supposed to infer?

In Hudlins' Black to the Future, they did stop interfering as part of a truce.

You have a point. The words spoken by the characters are the words spoken by the characters. I can't argue what can be inferred. In my mind T'Challa is being purposefully provocative and baiting Namor who takes the position of justifiably vengeful victim. In my mind not written...an omission that needs inclusion.

Thus the need of having one's work proof read and having an editor evaluate it before submitting.
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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4548 on: May 26, 2019, 09:43:22 am »
The 710 universe Namor has yet to be fleshed out, thus his origin may differ from his 616 counterpart. As far as white people's racism is concerned it is a survival mechanism, one that helps ensure self perpetuation, a much needed tool in the deep recesses of space. For those whites who practice said racism it serves as a race first ideology that will not be abandoned in the near or far future nor in their imagination.



A survival mechanism?  ???

How so?

How you explain away white people who don't practice racism?    They do exist, y'know.

Has not the white race (which is arguably a minority in the world as the majority are so called people of color) manage to make their customs, traditions and heritage one of the most predominant cultures in existence? The very definition of a survival mechanism.

I'm not explaining away white people who don't practice racism, I'm merely attempting to operationally define the term racism.
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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4549 on: May 26, 2019, 10:04:39 am »
[
I Like how it's put together but I agree with cville, I would keep Wakanda abd genocide, book haram, any form of allegory for  transatlantic  or colombus or anything that puts Wakanda in the same vein as the rest of the world. The only thing I would fault Wakanda for (which would be where T'Challa is different) would be then sticking to being isolationists due to not wanting to declare war against the world

I never envisioned Wakanda doing nothing during the wars, captivity, enslavement, mass killings, mass raping, occupation, and cultural subjugation of Afrakan people.

I was not alone in my thinking. Reginald Hudlin's Black to the Future.





Keep in mind this is the 710 universe and the current population, original inhabitants of this Atlantis have yet to be determined nor the circumstances concerning the sinking of the continent revealed. Rest assured there was no genocide committed in story nor intended or intimated by writer.

Even in Hudlin's run, Wakanda isn't directly interfering, which is my point that Wakanda would be subtle, but not directly involve themselves in the rest of the world's affairs.

Not quite sure how you define direct interference but my point was that Wakanda would not stand idle as Asian, Arab or European countries decided to attempt the conquest of Afraka. Under the conditions we are discussing Wakanda would be both subtle and brazen as the situation required.
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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4550 on: May 26, 2019, 11:25:27 am »
Has not the white race (which is arguably a minority in the world as the majority are so called people of color) manage to make their customs, traditions and heritage one of the most predominant cultures in existence? The very definition of a survival mechanism.


White people's perceived dominance can be attributed to mistruths, murder & deceiving other racial ethnicities for material gain. 

Survival mechanism is learning to hunt food for subsistence when hungry or drinking water when dehydrated or the need to procreate to produce more individuals; all humans do this but not all humans are liars, murderers or deceptive.

Racism is a by-product of fear, resentment and the fear of retribution not a survival mechanism. 



I'm not explaining away white people who don't practice racism, I'm merely attempting to operationally define the term racism.


I never implied this misunderstanding, my friend.  This is a completely different question as it relates to your 'Star Trek: Enterprise' example with the Andorian.


...but...

What I'm asking you relates to your Chapter 3 story;  If you're telling a story where Namor has an issue with T'Challa's skin tone, where does this off-hand remark originate from?

Like you said ealier, you haven't fleshed out your story (or timeline) clearly enough.

All I asked for is clarification.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 11:37:13 am by Battle »

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4551 on: May 26, 2019, 11:43:14 am »
Has not the white race (which is arguably a minority in the world as the majority are so called people of color) manage to make their customs, traditions and heritage one of the most predominant cultures in existence? The very definition of a survival mechanism.


White people's perceived dominance can be attributed to mistruths, murder & deceiving other racial ethnicities for material gain. 

Survival mechanism is learning to hunt food for subsistence when hungry or drinking water when dehydrated or the need to procreate to produce more individuals; all humans do this but not all humans are liars, murderers or deceptive.

Racism is a by-product of fear, resentment and the fear of retribution not a survival mechanism. 



I'm not explaining away white people who don't practice racism, I'm merely attempting to operationally define the term racism.


I never implied this misunderstanding, my friend.  This is a completely different question as it relates to your 'Star Trek: Enterprise' example with the Andorian.


...but...

What I'm asking you relates to your Chapter 3 story;  If you're telling a story where Namor has an issue with T'Challa's skin tone, where does this off-hand remark originate from?

Like you said ealier, you haven't fleshed out your story (or timeline) clearly enough.

All I asked for is clarification.

I understand Brother Battle and will attempt some clarification. As I said when I first suggested doing our own BP stories, the HEF is the best place for all things BP. Thank you for your support, questions and critiques. This is really fun and encouraging. I can't wait to drop the another chapter.
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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4552 on: May 26, 2019, 12:49:33 pm »
I understand Brother Battle and will attempt some clarification. As I said when I first suggested doing our own BP stories, the HEF is the best place for all things BP. Thank you for your support, questions and critiques. This is really fun and encouraging. I can't wait to drop the another chapter.





The intriguing element to Bill Everett's version of Namor when he first appeared in MARVEL comics #1 is that he resents white people, not black people.  :)
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 12:54:20 pm by Battle »

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4553 on: May 26, 2019, 04:33:43 pm »
I understand Brother Battle and will attempt some clarification. As I said when I first suggested doing our own BP stories, the HEF is the best place for all things BP. Thank you for your support, questions and critiques. This is really fun and encouraging. I can't wait to drop the another chapter.


The intriguing element to Bill Everett's version of Namor when he first appeared in MARVEL comics #1 is that he resents white people, not black people.  :)


I may be entirely wrong here, because I barely read any old skool Namor...but the impression I got from his monologues and verbal tirades with other [ White ] heroes is that Namor had serious beef with the White Land Dwellers... who poisoned the oceans, and/or endangered the planet which of course in major ways threatens the oceans .

I didn't get the vibe that Namor had static with White folks, or he had Daddy issues which extended to all of White civilization. But you guys have read far more old skool Namor than me, so...
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Offline Battle

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4554 on: May 26, 2019, 04:54:59 pm »
I may be entirely wrong here, because I barely read any old skool Namor...but the impression I got from his monologues and verbal tirades with other [ White ] heroes is that Namor had serious beef with the White Land Dwellers... who poisoned the oceans, and/or endangered the planet which of course in major ways threatens the oceans.

I didn't get the vibe that Namor had static with White folks, or he had Daddy issues which extended to all of White civilization. But you guys have read far more old skool Namor than me, so...





You're referring to john byrne's version of Namor.  His stories dealt with (just the couple of books I picked up) corporations dumping pollution in the seas and Earth Day issues.
The only reason I picked Namor up is because the inking style is similar to how Bill Everett did it back-in-th-day.  Wasn't very exciting at all. Typical byrne junk.

Everett's version of Namor expresses that he doesn't like the idea that he's half-Atlantean & half-Human similar to how Loki feels he's not full-blooded Asgardian in the 'Thor' movies.

Don't take my word for it. Read for yourself!  Sub-Mariner is a fun read... :)

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« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 07:37:28 pm by Battle »

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4555 on: May 27, 2019, 11:55:05 am »
I may be entirely wrong here, because I barely read any old skool Namor...but the impression I got from his monologues and verbal tirades with other [ White ] heroes is that Namor had serious beef with the White Land Dwellers... who poisoned the oceans, and/or endangered the planet which of course in major ways threatens the oceans.

I didn't get the vibe that Namor had static with White folks, or he had Daddy issues which extended to all of White civilization. But you guys have read far more old skool Namor than me, so...





You're referring to john byrne's version of Namor.  His stories dealt with (just the couple of books I picked up) corporations dumping pollution in the seas and Earth Day issues.
The only reason I picked Namor up is because the inking style is similar to how Bill Everett did it back-in-th-day.  Wasn't very exciting at all. Typical byrne junk.

Everett's version of Namor expresses that he doesn't like the idea that he's half-Atlantean & half-Human similar to how Loki feels he's not full-blooded Asgardian in the 'Thor' movies.

Don't take my word for it. Read for yourself!  Sub-Mariner is a fun read... :)

Would You Like to Know More?
http://thegreatcomicbookheroes.blogspot.com/2014/07/bill-everetts-sub-mariner.html


THANK YOU! I'm definitely going to hit that link when I get the time...prolly later today
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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4556 on: May 27, 2019, 08:17:10 pm »
BP710:THE PROTOCOLS

CHAPTER 3 Battle of the Sub Mariner


T'Challa runs across the surface of the ocean as Namor jettisons his flag ship sea flying, within seconds they are within arms reach of one another. Tchalla feels the pressure from Namor's trident in his mid section as he is forcibly thrust into the air.

Namor : "Was I supposed to be impressed by messianic feat?"

T'Challa : "More a battle tactic to get you out of the water."

The Black Panther finger strikes both sides of Namor's head simultaneously, his claws ripping into Namor's ear cavities. In one fluid move Tchalla delivers a palm strike to Namors chin, back flips and drop kicks Namor in his chest and silently lands feet first on the surface of the sea. Namor groggily splashes into the water.

Namor : "IMPERIOUS REX!!!"

Tactical officer : "All ships raise hard water shields to maximum! Brace for impact!"

Namors trident begins to glow like a sun going nova. It discharges an omni-directional energy wave buffeting the Black Panther and the Atlantean war fleet for several seconds. There is an incessant ringing in Namor's head as he notices his equilibrium is impaired. Namor sees T'Challa listless form bobbing in the waves and notices his fleet moving in for the kill. Namor gestures them to stop. Using an ancient aquatic sign language Namor instructs a trained great white shark to bring the Black Panther to him.

The shark bumps T'Challa twice before biting down on his unmoving figure. As the shark brings T'Challa within striking distance of Namor, the Black Panther springs into action dislodging several rows of teeth by violently shoulder rolling out of the sea creature's grasp. Namor's trident begins to glow again and T'Challa grabs hold of it.

T'Challa : "Please allow me the courtesy of returning the favor."

The redoubled energy discharge sends both combatants flying opposite directions. While gathering his wits, Namor is met with a swift kick to the head. Namor momentarily sees the Black Panther running back towards him then disappear. Namor is again struck, this time with a sliding knee to the chin. Namor submerges and the Black Panther follows, the vibranium micro turbine impellers in his boots engage keeping T'Challa just outside arms reach.

T'Challa : "Swimming deep will not save you Namor."

Namor smiles as he leads T'Challa into the stygian depths of the deepest part of the ocean called the Challenger Deep, located beneath the  southern end of the Mariana Trench. The Black Panther's vibranium enhanced tapetum lucidum lenses engage allowing T'Challa to view both his surroundings and opponent as if they were bathed in daylight. Suddenly Namor begins to writhe in pain, feeling as if his head were about to explode. As the blackness closes in Namor sees a purple outlined fist before the darkness consumes him. Sunburn and dehydration return consciousness to the Sub Mariner.


T'Challa : " The Sahara Desert."

Namor : "I know where I am."

T'Challa : "You looked a bit confused."

Off to his left Namor sees his trident standing upright in the sand. He walks over to it, grabs it out of the sand and points it towards T'Challa, who stands arms folded against his chest unflinching.

Namor : "You altered your habit. It is embued with the Ba Em Pet."

T'Challa : "That didn't defeat you. You lost... "

Namor : "I know how I lost. You ruptured the protective pressure regulating membrane of my inner ears. Typical Wakandan, always finding some way to fight dishonorably. You do your ancestors proud."

T'Challa : "You lost, just like your ancestor did because of arrogance. You believed there was no way I could best you underwater."

Namor : "You dare mention my ancestors!

T'Challa : "Your ancestor attempted to subjugate ancient Wakanda by controlling international sea routes through the policing and seizure of vessels and their cargo. Your people worst affront was the subterranean hydro siphoning technology they used to embargo and traffic fresh water. Look what it did to the very land we now stand on. Once thriving, plentiful of water and lush with vegetation now a near barren wasteland. This was your people's threat to Wakanda, to the world."

Namor : "My people were not criminals and pirates! We were the greatest mariners the world has ever known. The oceans themselves were our home. We belong to them and they to us. All who were not Atlantean were trespassers and dealt with accordingly."

T'Challa : "You spoke of genocide yet how many suffered and died here? Your people's hydo technology and incessant drilling doomed your continent. We merely accelerated the process."

Namor : "Finally you admit complicity!"

T'Challa : "Some of those old ships in the ancient Atlantean fleet were miles long. You had the means to evacuate everyone continent wide. And you had the time. We saw to that. Had not the Atlantean elite chose to gorge themselves on extravagance, exploit your countries resources for their sole gain, your people might have lived better lives and avoided becoming warmongers.  As it was in the past and so it is today,both you and your people invited defeat."

T'Challa turns and walks toward a waiting Talon Fighter.

T'Challa : "I will notify your fleet where to find you a few hours after they leave Wakandan territory."

Namor : "I will bring you and your country to heel!"

The Black Panther reaches out his arm and Namor's trident flies out of his hand and into T'Challa's grasp. It glows purple and disintegrates into dust.

T'Challa : "Make that a few days."
« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 11:57:28 pm by Ture »
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Offline Battle

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Y'know, an idea just came to mind. 

There has been a rash of several beached whale reports off the coast of Southern California lately.  There has also been a few vicious shark attacks, as well.


If I were writing a Namor story, a few ideas for MARVEL Studios to play with would be an unfortunate series of several beached whale reports on a port city beach that garners no attention by public officials.

Days later, a few random vicious shark attacks on private beach area targeting public servants' younger family member would happen that appear to be random.

The shark attacks on private beaches become a daily, if not, weekly occurrence on public servant family members.

These shark attacks eventually gets the attention of mayors and governors to call an emergency press conference.



Alright, I'll stop right here. 

Reading  BP710:THE PROTOCOLS, CHAPTER 3 Battle of the Sub Mariner got me going.

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Re: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS
« Reply #4558 on: May 28, 2019, 08:57:29 am »
BP710:THE PROTOCOLS

CHAPTER 3 Battle of the Sub Mariner


T'Challa runs across the surface of the ocean as Namor jettisons his flag ship sea flying, within seconds they are within arms reach of one another. Tchalla feels the pressure from Namor's trident in his mid section as he is forcibly thrust into the air.

Namor : "Was I supposed to be impressed by messianic feat?"

T'Challa : "More a battle tactic to get you out of the water."

The Black Panther finger strikes both sides of Namor's head simultaneously, his claws ripping into Namor's ear cavities. In one fluid move Tchalla delivers a palm strike to Namors chin, back flips and drop kicks Namor in his chest and silently lands feet first on the surface of the sea. Namor groggily splashes into the water.

Namor : "IMPERIOUS REX!!!"

Tactical officer : "All ships raise hard water shields to maximum! Brace for impact!"

Namors trident begins to glow like a sun going nova. It discharges an omni-directional energy wave buffeting the Black Panther and the Atlantean war fleet for several seconds. There is an incessant ringing in Namor's head as he notices his equilibrium is impaired. Namor sees T'Challa listless form bobbing in the waves and notices his fleet moving in for the kill. Namor gestures them to stop. Using an ancient aquatic sign language Namor instructs a trained great white shark to bring the Black Panther to him.

The shark bumps T'Challa twice before biting down on his unmoving figure. As the shark brings T'Challa within striking distance of Namor, the Black Panther springs into action dislodging several rows of teeth by violently shoulder rolling out of the sea creature's grasp. Namor's trident begins to glow again and T'Challa grabs hold of it.

T'Challa : "Please allow me the courtesy of returning the favor."

The redoubled energy discharge sends both combatants flying opposite directions. While gathering his wits, Namor is met with a swift kick to the head. Namor momentarily sees the Black Panther running back towards him then disappear. Namor is again struck, this time with a sliding knee to the chin. Namor submerges and the Black Panther follows, the vibranium micro turbine impellers in his boots engage keeping T'Challa just outside arms reach.

T'Challa : "Swimming deep will not save you Namor."

Namor smiles as he leads T'Challa into the stygian depths of the deepest part of the ocean called the Challenger Deep, located beneath the  southern end of the Mariana Trench. The Black Panther's vibranium enhanced tapetum lucidum lenses engage allowing T'Challa to view both his surroundings and opponent as if they were bathed in daylight. Suddenly Namor begins to writhe in pain, feeling as if his head were about to explode. As the blackness closes in Namor sees a purple outlined fist before the darkness consumes him. Sunburn and dehydration return consciousness to the Sub Mariner.


T'Challa : " The Sahara Desert."

Namor : "I know where I am."

T'Challa : "You looked a bit confused."

Off to his left Namor sees his trident standing upright in the sand. He walks over to it, grabs it out of the sand and points it towards T'Challa, who stands arms folded against his chest unflinching.

Namor : "You altered your habit. It is embued with the Ba Em Pet."

T'Challa : "That didn't defeat you. You lost... "

Namor : "I know how I lost. You ruptured the protective pressure regulating membrane of my inner ears. Typical Wakandan, always finding some way to fight dishonorably. You do your ancestors proud."

T'Challa : "You lost, just like your ancestor did because of arrogance. You believed there was no way I could best you underwater."

Namor : "You dare mention my ancestors!

T'Challa : "Your ancestor attempted to subjugate ancient Wakanda by controlling international sea routes through the policing and seizure of vessels and their cargo. Your people worst affront was the subterranean hydro siphoning technology they used to embargo and traffic fresh water. Look what it did to the very land we now stand on. Once thriving, plentiful of water and lush with vegetation now a near barren wasteland. This was your people's threat to Wakanda, to the world."

Namor : "My people were not criminals and pirates! We were the greatest mariners the world has ever known. The oceans themselves were our home. We belong to them and they to us. All who were not Atlantean were trespassers and dealt with accordingly."

T'Challa : "You spoke of genocide yet how many suffered and died here? Your people's hydo technology and incessant drilling doomed your continent. We merely accelerated the process."

Namor : "Finally you admit complicity!"

T'Challa : "Some of those old ships in the ancient Atlantean fleet were miles long. You had the means to evacuate everyone continent wide. And you had the time. We saw to that. Had not the Atlantean elite chose to gorge themselves on extravagance, exploit your countries resources for their sole gain, your people might have lived better lives and avoided becoming warmongers.  As it was in the past and so it is today,both you and your people invited defeat."

T'Challa turns and walks toward a waiting Talon Fighter.

T'Challa : "I will notify your fleet where to find you a few hours after they leave Wakandan territory."

Namor : "I will bring you and your country to heel!"

The Black Panther reaches out his arm and Namor's trident flies out of his hand and into T'Challa's grasp. It glows purple and disintegrates into dust.

T'Challa : "Make that a few days."



I really liked this chapter. Got the creative juices going! T'Challa calling Namor's trident to his palm, disintegrating it with a rush of power, and then saying: "Make that a few days."...was just so clearly a thing T'Challa would do!

Those of us familiar with Atlantean genius know that the hypertech of Atlantis allows them to find Namor in microseconds. If that long. But just as subtly and clearly, T'Challa is deliberately disrupting the Atlantean search from being successful with Wakandan uboratek...superior technology/hypertech...which must be significantly greater thant hat of Atlantis if Wakanda can block Atlantis from finding her Prince nearly instantly, and prevent Atlantis' success for DAYS.
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BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline CvilleWakandan

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Maybe its in a earlier chapter, but why is Namor attacking WK?
Reggie Hudlin-
 "I think my Panther run traumatized a lot of folks with its explicit blackness.  But you can't win unless you commit to something."