Poll

BP710 Story Ideas     Deadlines for selection: November 22, 2017

Death Be Not Proud-The final days of T'Chaka the Black Panther
1 (16.7%)
Lost in Space-The search for the Vibranium asteroid field
2 (33.3%)
Doomwar-The Black Payback: T'Challa v Doom as it should've been
0 (0%)
Black on Black violence-The on panel fight between the Black Panther and Black Dwarf
0 (0%)
Where is the Love-The romance of T'Challa and Ororo
0 (0%)
Sweat of the Panther-Steampunk Wakanda
1 (16.7%)
Beware Of Geek's Reply #4210 on: October 22, 2017, 07:39:29 am
1 (16.7%)
Battle's Supreme nomination  Reply #4208 on: October 22, 2017, 04:59:32 am
1 (16.7%)
Kickin' it with Kip Lewis Reply #4238 on: October 25, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
0 (0%)
Other
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Voting closed: November 22, 2017, 07:45:54 pm

Author Topic: BP710:THE PROTOCOLS  (Read 1091602 times)

Offline Kimoyo

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2340 on: April 14, 2015, 11:39:16 pm »
I could more easily see your comment as a simple statement on a trend in modern comics if it were not buoyed by your professed appreciation for Hickmam's story and mass destruction, etc.  However, the comment above was as much in reference to the declaration of your statement's absolute truth which absolutely attemps to justify the destruction of Wakanda. 

Accepting this nihilistic trend as a universal, industry-wide and inescapable convention defeats the purpose of having a forum devoted to the medium.  I agree that Hickman is pulling at the fabric of comic book solvency by disavowing the heroes ability to always find a way which is why rather than walking away, this warrior is here using this forum, futilely or not, to say I'm not having it!

Peace,

Mont

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2341 on: April 15, 2015, 05:26:08 am »
So, who's left to write him the right way?

Nobody will be given the chance to do that. No matter how gifted the writer...under the current circumstances with the current majority of consumers buying comics who are a mix of fanboys that are wholly apathetic, uninterested in and racially hostile to TChalla? TChalla will fail. The best chance TChalla, Ms Marvel, Black Widow, Doc Strange, Ant Man, Miles Morales, and a host of other new heroes like SILK have is that they are pitched at a new and growing fanbase that are eager to have them. And in an overall market that WELCOMES their presence, even if those heroes aren't their favorite by a mile. That  kind of multicultural more accepting and more inclusive of women fan base is actively recruited by Marvel Cinemas and the MCU.

Then and only then can outstanding writers like CJP, RH, etc get a real chance to write their book without interoffice hate and LCBRD racist hatin backlash.

Look. New Avengers lost sales when TChalla was the clear moral center and badass of the book. Hickman was writing his ass off with TChalla. TChalla laid the smack down on Black Swan. Nobody else did that. He ripped apart a guy. He was on Namor's butt. He was sexin up Storm. Etc etc. What happened? From what I understand, sales went through a slow but steady decline before stabilizing.

The book's overall sales went up...so I am told...when Reed became the center of the book. And then that dropped too as Hickman pissed off Reed's fans. But the drop isn't anywhere near as sharp as when TChalla was in the lead.

Hickman's multiverse killing universe changing opus will permanently change that. And all writers in all of the MU. All of them. Are ALREADY COMMITTED TO THIS CHANGE. Read Hickman's interview. THIS CHANGE IS PERMANENT. Books are ALREADY BEING MADE with THE PERMANENT BADASS TCHALLA AS BATMAN OF THE MU A EDITORIAL MANDATED AND CREATOR SUPPORTED REALITY. Again. Read Hickman's interview on CBR. Part 2.

In this environment? And ONLY in this environment. Will BP finally. Finally. Thrive.

Hell. We might even get CJP back for BP. Or. Some other amazing writer. Mark Millar said he wanted to give TChalla a go a while ago.

It would be far too much of a fangasm to get RH back. But. To say I'd love that is a humongous freakin understatement.

 Hope springs eternal.


 
I totally commend your passion Kimoyo.

First the rallying cry was the Black Panther needed more guest stars, this was followed by he needed a better power set. Later it was Tchalla needed to be more than tangentially involved in major events and cross overs. 

The Black Panther needs to have a big name writer. Tchalla is too perfect, he needs a flaw. The Black Panther is not relatable enough to a white male demographic. Then came the outcry that the Black Panther needs to be part of a the Avengers.

The Black Panther can't win. If he were to lay down and say walk on me, some fool would say roll over on your other side.

What the Black Panther needs is to be left alone by all those who fail to comprehend the complexity of his personality and nuances that uniquely define the character. If you can't commit to writing the Black Panther don't apply for the job.



Again. This hellacious long story isn't over. And again. Good writers are SUPPOSED TO take their characters through believable wringers that have their readership questioning if their favorite character will win, and if so...at what cost? Their should be real threat of real loss that really happens so that the character really has to come back and triumph that much more magnificently.

And there should be a real serious chance that the character may not come back at all.

That's what good writers do.

And you know what? Each of the characters have the most amazing and compelling reasons for doing the unthinkable things they are doing.

When Namor destroyed the other Earth? His reasons for doing so were spot on. He was RIGHT to denigrate the Illuminati for having the hubris, the arrogance, to place their self righteous morality above the importance of the lives of all things in existence. He WAS RIGHT to make that point.

He was simply wrong in his method.

However...what other choices were there, at that time? The horrid answer is....there were no other answers that the Illuminati found at that point.

Doctor Doom is not wrong in his aim. He IS WRONG in his methods. But. He could not find another choice to make. No other even remotely successful option remained. Same thing with Doctor Strange.

And Kip is 100% right. Wakanda's destruction was inevitable, the moment that she became impregnable. How many times has Asgard been the home of unrivaled power? And how many times have we seen her bright spires shattered and broken?

At one time, The High Evolutionary was considered to be smarter than Reed Richards. Look what happened to him.

First we had Hulk. Then Sentry. Red Hulk. Blue Marvel. Hyperion. Always an attempt to or a successful achievement of one-upping the power of the previous "best".

Yes, the "chosen" have also lost a lot. Sue Richards was killed. Johnny Storm was killed. Wolverine was killed. Prof X was killed many times. Magneto was killed several times over. Bruce Banner was killed. Storm even killed Hulk momentarily with her lightning. Thor has been killed repeatedly. Surfer died. Peter Parker died. Steve Rogers died. Matt Murdock. Bruce Wayne. Superman. Most of "The Chosen" in BOTH major comics publishers have died and/or suffered major losses many times. How many times has Wonder Woman lost her Amazons?

But again. That's what good writers DO. They really put their characters in real danger and really make their fanbase really react with real concern. Hickman has taken this ploy and ran it to never before seen heights of horror and reality with consequences previously unimagined for the MCU.

And yes. Everyone and any one is JUSTIFIED in calling it quits on BP now if they so wish. Yet in the same breath, there is no question that doing so is exactly equivalent to bailing out on a book because your favorite protagonist is being dragged through the wringer by the bad guys in the middle of the book. It's like going through "The War To End All Wars"...that was WWI...and bailing on the story of World War II because the Axis Powers keep winning back to back battles and smashing on the good guys.

You never find out that The Allies win in the end...at extremely severe, world changing cost...because you bailed on the story. And all of your arguments will literally be the opinions which you have the right to hold. And  your opinions will e permanently steeped in literal and willful ignorance of the entire story because you bailed.

It took thirty years for CJP to come along. It took a few more years after that for RH BP to come along.

I can wait three years so Hickman can reset the MCU with TChalla PERMANENTLY ENSCONCED AS THE BATMAN OF THE MCU. And setting things so that from now freakin on the CJP's, the RH's, the MCDUFFIE's of the future are welcomed with open arms and encouraged to take TChalla, Falcon [ remember that CJP's Falcon is BY FAR THE BEST FALCON ] Luke Cage [ RH's Luke Cage is the best Cage, hands down period ] and hosts of other amazing characters of color with untapped massive potential. Triathlon. Battlestar. Ororo. Photon. Blue Marvel. The new Power Man. Night Thrasher. Patriot. Ororo's daughter. Etc. etc.

But I won't have to wait three years. Neither will you. Know how I know? Because...

...I saw some advanced black and white artwork for the upcoming Civil War in Secret Wars. TChalla is leading the charge of heroes aligned with Captain America against the charging heroes aligned with Tony. Or at least if he's not leading? He's in the front. Maybe he's just FASTER than everyone else is or whatever it is.

And.

TChalla survives both Secret Wars AND Battleworld. That means that somehow he and Reed and Strange and Doom turn the tables or exploit something or whatever of the Beyonders.

And I can't help but think that Thanos and The Cabal are in this up to their necks.

You know what? We might actually have...TChalla vs Namor 2.

And the big throwdown?

TChalla vs Thanos. For vengeance for Shuri, the death of Wakanda, and for ensuring the safe stable return of and future fate of Wakanda. I wouldn't be one ounce surprised to find that TChalla somehow or other turns Rabum Alal against The Cabal or all the heroes turn on The Cabal and somehow beat them. With TChalla playing a major part.

As much of a BP fanboy that I am? I don't see him overpowering Thanos in any way. I see him playing Thanos. Outsmarting Thanos by exploiting the only real weakness that Thanos has [ if you're not Eternity, The Celestials, The Living Tribunal, The Beyonder, Galactus, etc ]...and that is? Turning Thanos on Thanos.

I shouldn't say this but...in my fanfic? TChalla channels the Celestial Madonna combined with Moondragon combined with The Panther Dragon combined with Adam Warlock to halt a universe devouring threat. In my mind, that's the only kind of surprise that TChalla could have...power wise...that could catch a threat like Thanos unprepared.  It's too much to hope...by far...that Hickman even remotely considered something megacool like that for BP in his book.

However, all that is fair game for BP's new writers in the new MCU. They will write the very best combo of BP in all his incarnations plus whatever their imaginations conjure plus whatever the Marvel Cinemas conjure in a BP Witch's Brew post Battleworld and from thence on.

When I asked my secret informer about this? He was stone silent. The only other time he was stone silent? Was when I asked him about New Avengers being a horror story. As this very thread shows, some months ago I began to suspect that we were reading a super cosmic horror morality play splashed with universe spanning and multiverse killing action. That was the only other time he was stone silent.

I was right the last time he was stone silent.

We'll see if I'm right about any part of what I suspect now in the future.

Look, sales only went up during the two issues Reed narrated because those were the two issues that just happened to be the big Avengers v. Avengers fight that the silent majority wanted from the jump.

Heroes fighting each other is way more interesting than heroes fighting villains who you know can never win. Since you can never be sure which hero faction will come out on top.

A villain who always loses stops being a credible threat after awhile.

Which is why the top villains like Doom, Joker, Thanos and Lex Luthor can ONLY get beat by their arch foes and almost never get captured by them.

When the story went back to the regular plot, they lost the readers that jumped on the book for the hero v. hero ass kicking.

This all has a whole lot less to do with how fans Reed and BP and a whole lot more to do with what tactics will get readers to jump on board a book in general. If anything, Reg's run shows that folks will buy BP when he is jumping or hanging with other heroes.

Its when he is doing anything else that the problems come up.

Its why BP (and Namor who is in the EXACT same category as Black Panther is in popularity wise) is in a team book  with franchise stars like Iron Man, Reed and Hulk in the first place.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2342 on: April 15, 2015, 01:56:10 pm »





Going off topic. .. this art sucks.   For a book that is supposed to redefine Marvel,  this art falls far from the mark.

Offline Battle

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2343 on: April 16, 2015, 05:31:56 am »
Going off topic. .. this art sucks.   For a book that is supposed to redefine Marvel,  this art falls far from the mark.



Yeah, although, not just the art but the other layers that MARVEL  used to impressed readers at.

That page has that 'made in China', cheap knockoff look & feel about it.





Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2344 on: April 16, 2015, 05:02:56 pm »
Ok,  as you know I expect that when all is said and done,  this timeline will be reset and Wakanda restored,  Shuri alive,  etc.

But I had a thought.   Suppose instead of resetting time,  what if they go the route of the King of the Dead some how has the power of resurrecting the Dead.    Then I have to wonder if they went the resurrection route,  would he bring his father back to life.   I wonder what it would be like if his father was alive again?  (I realize,  They could do this with a reboot too.)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2345 on: April 17, 2015, 07:17:02 pm »
I could more easily see your comment as a simple statement on a trend in modern comics if it were not buoyed by your professed appreciation for Hickmam's story and mass destruction, etc.  However, the comment above was as much in reference to the declaration of your statement's absolute truth which absolutely attemps to justify the destruction of Wakanda. 

Accepting this nihilistic trend as a universal, industry-wide and inescapable convention defeats the purpose of having a forum devoted to the medium.  I agree that Hickman is pulling at the fabric of comic book solvency by disavowing the heroes ability to always find a way which is why rather than walking away, this warrior is here using this forum, futilely or not, to say I'm not having it!

Peace,

Mont


Losing a major war within the scheme of multiple major wars is not the same as disavowing the heroes ability to always find a way. The heroes...all of them from almost every corner of the MCU...finally lost to a multiverse destroying threat. In the process? We find ourselves facing major questions which I have been asking from the jump. Right after I began to suspect that Hickman was writing a multiverse destroying ultra cosmic character driven horror story-morality play combo.

In the face of these dreadful events, can the heroes find a way to remain heroic? Can they find a way to battle back against the multiverse destroying, invincible unstoppable threat of the Beyonders? Yes, they will. That's with the SECRET WARS and BATTLEWORLD will help to ask and resolve in a far reaching fashion. Therefore, Hickman believes in some way and fashion that the heroes can and will find a way to remain heroic and find a way to win...even in the face of the kinds of infinitely beyond infinity horrors the likes of which nobody outside of himself has even contemplated throwing the heroes against.

Consider that.

The fact that the current events are so destructive to the heroes that most of us have taken our eye off the prize of the post-Battleworld MCU to roar our [ justified ] displeasure with current events is precisely the proof that Hickman is one truly incredible megalong range planning intricately plotting very talented and skilled writer. This result he's getting is EXACTLY what he's SUPPOSED to get.

The Beyonders...in fact, ONE Beyonder...could have destroyed EVERYTHING. They didn't do so for their own very mysterious reasons. We don't know what those reasons are. I am sure that we will have that reveal during the course of SECRET WARS and/or BATTLEWORLD. As many huge IQ's that there are on this forum...I'm kinda surprised that this question hasn't been exposed to extensive analysis. This question is the linchpin for putting everything into perspective. It's the way to really assess the endgame for Hickman, and to place these concerns about TChalla being batted around into proper perspective.
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2346 on: April 18, 2015, 02:38:52 am »
I could more easily see your comment as a simple statement on a trend in modern comics if it were not buoyed by your professed appreciation for Hickmam's story and mass destruction, etc.  However, the comment above was as much in reference to the declaration of your statement's absolute truth which absolutely attemps to justify the destruction of Wakanda. 

Accepting this nihilistic trend as a universal, industry-wide and inescapable convention defeats the purpose of having a forum devoted to the medium.  I agree that Hickman is pulling at the fabric of comic book solvency by disavowing the heroes ability to always find a way which is why rather than walking away, this warrior is here using this forum, futilely or not, to say I'm not having it!

Peace,

Mont



Losing a major war within the scheme of multiple major wars is not the same as disavowing the heroes ability to always find a way. The heroes...all of them from almost every corner of the MCU...finally lost to a multiverse destroying threat. In the process? We find ourselves facing major questions which I have been asking from the jump. Right after I began to suspect that Hickman was writing a multiverse destroying ultra cosmic character driven horror story-morality play combo.

In the face of these dreadful events, can the heroes find a way to remain heroic? Can they find a way to battle back against the multiverse destroying, invincible unstoppable threat of the Beyonders? Yes, they will. That's with the SECRET WARS and BATTLEWORLD will help to ask and resolve in a far reaching fashion. Therefore, Hickman believes in some way and fashion that the heroes can and will find a way to remain heroic and find a way to win...even in the face of the kinds of infinitely beyond infinity horrors the likes of which nobody outside of himself has even contemplated throwing the heroes against.

Consider that.

The fact that the current events are so destructive to the heroes that most of us have taken our eye off the prize of the post-Battleworld MCU to roar our [ justified ] displeasure with current events is precisely the proof that Hickman is one truly incredible megalong range planning intricately plotting very talented and skilled writer. This result he's getting is EXACTLY what he's SUPPOSED to get.

The Beyonders...in fact, ONE Beyonder...could have destroyed EVERYTHING. They didn't do so for their own very mysterious reasons. We don't know what those reasons are. I am sure that we will have that reveal during the course of SECRET WARS and/or BATTLEWORLD. As many huge IQ's that there are on this forum...I'm kinda surprised that this question hasn't been exposed to extensive analysis. This question is the linchpin for putting everything into perspective. It's the way to really assess the endgame for Hickman, and to place these concerns about TChalla being batted around into proper perspective.



Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2347 on: April 18, 2015, 12:18:20 pm »










Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2348 on: April 19, 2015, 04:59:37 pm »










Always loved me some Shuri. I don't care what Shuri haters think. May respect SOME of their points, but...frankly...we were more than overdo for a strong Black Woman Black Panther.RH? Take it to the bank, bruh. Shuri? Mad respect for that. I still won't buy that Shuri is really really gone until and unless...post Battleworld...a Black scribe writing TChalla's new solo series says s/he won't write her.

But what good writer WOULD NOT wanna write The Wakandan Royals? Queen Mother Ramonda. Bring back S'yan the Swift. S;yhan's son. No way that S'Yan wouldn't gun for the return of his son T'Chan [ did I get his name right, RH? T'Chan? ]. And of course. Shuri. Hunter. D'Ciggs, T'Challa's half brother. The Crew. At long last, freakin Kasper Cole even though he's not of Royal blood. That cousin dude who RH had speaking to Shuri prior to her capture by Killmonger. The Black Musketeers [ what a STUPID name ]. The previous Panthers via Panther Spirit Pavillion and stuff.

Plus? Queen Ramonda is madd underdevloped. The only scribe who really made her raw? Building upon the smooth slickness that CJP imbued her with? RH. Remember when RH had Killmonger come back? He wrote da hell out of The Queen Mother. To me? RH's Ramonda is thee Ramonda. She's the most hardcore of all of them. Even more ruthless than TChalla. RH had Queen Mother Ramonda scoffing at Wkabi and everyone else when the men hesitated at Killmonger's return. The Queen Mother royally stated that they should be about disintegrating Killmonger via space cannon ,and left everyone while their mouths were hanging open. Hahaha.

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Offline Blanks

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2349 on: April 22, 2015, 05:20:27 pm »
I can't wait until Battleworld gets here to see if any of this gets undone or altered. I agree with Supreme, that whatever Mavel is planning for the Panther, this will be getting aligned with the movie version that they are preparing to give us.

I'm just ready for this ride to end.

Offline Ture

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2350 on: April 23, 2015, 06:46:04 am »
Storms of Carnage: The Black Panther Unleashed


Post Netflix's Daredevil binge and prior to Captain America Civil War there is this...


The BLACK PANTHER UNLEASHED part 1 (FAN FILM Teaser)
https://youtu.be/C1NqLpCUP9o


The BLACK PANTHER UNLEASHED part 2 (FAN FILM Teaser)
https://youtu.be/8x9fd6gb9tQ

Storms of Carnage: The Black Panther Unleashed is written, directed, and edited by D.A. Jackson, starring Wester Joseph, Jeff Moise, Kieran McGrail, Stacston Carter, and D. Al'Deighmian Jackson.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2015, 06:55:19 am by Ture »
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Special Black Panther Edition and more

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2351 on: April 23, 2015, 06:53:21 pm »
Storms of Carnage: The Black Panther Unleashed


Post Netflix's Daredevil binge and prior to Captain America Civil War there is this...


The BLACK PANTHER UNLEASHED part 1 (FAN FILM Teaser)
https://youtu.be/C1NqLpCUP9o


The BLACK PANTHER UNLEASHED part 2 (FAN FILM Teaser)
https://youtu.be/8x9fd6gb9tQ

Storms of Carnage: The Black Panther Unleashed is written, directed, and edited by D.A. Jackson, starring Wester Joseph, Jeff Moise, Kieran McGrail, Stacston Carter, and D. Al'Deighmian Jackson.


This is sooo doooope. And there is a part 3. Check it out
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Offline Francisco

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2352 on: April 25, 2015, 07:42:42 pm »









Shuri's very existence is an affront to the true Black Panther: T'Challa. It should have been T'Challa doing all those things not Shuri. I hope she stays dead so we can finally have the true Black Panther without crappy substitutes.
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Offline JRCarter

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2353 on: April 25, 2015, 07:44:48 pm »
Aw, Francisco, you have no idea the hornet's nest you've just stirred.

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Re: New Avengers, New Black Panther, New Black Power???
« Reply #2354 on: April 25, 2015, 07:58:24 pm »
Aw, Francisco, you have no idea the hornet's nest you've just stirred.

Just telling it like it is. T'Challa should've never been replaced as the Black Panther. He doesn't need siblings. The only one who worked well for the mythos was the White Wolf due the dynamic of their relationship.
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