BP710: THE PROTOCOLS 2020 - AVENGE THE FALLEN

[Salustrade]

Shuri's is one of the most important contributions not only to the Black Panther franchise but the comic book industry itself; as such, her creation should not be called into question. It wasn't Shuri who took anything from Tchalla, it was Maberry, Arron, Hickman and if I'm being honest Hudlin.
 
Shuri is unique among so called black characters. Unlike Storm who was created to be a so-called minority character, designed to help diversify a predominately white male team while simultaneously morphing into a white fanboy's fetish symbol; Shuri represented a sovereign cultural integrity exemplified by royal familial bonds that gave Afrakan women and girls a heroine to identify with.

Unfortunately Ororo was a cultural time bomb ready for detonation the moment she came in proximity to any other Afrakan (so called Black). Reggie's attempts to defuse Storm were undermined once he stopped writing her. However it was under Hudlin (and the artists with him during much of his tenure) that Shuri  (and the re-imaged Dora Milaje) helped to redefine and promote an often under valued aesthetic.  Shuri came to epitomize not only the warrior but responsible ruler-ship, a true Black Panther.

For all the lip service paid to such concepts as diversity and so called minority representation it seems natural to have a Shuri, Queen Divine Justice and Dora Milaje as much as a Ororo, Monet St Croix and a Misty Knight.

Thus a more credible argument would be structured around the lack of detail in outlining Wakandan ascendancy to the throne and the consistency in maintaining such. A broader approach to that argument would be the fleshing out of the entirety of Wakandan society and culture.

One of the realest posts on the subject of Shuri that I've seen in this thread so far.

It's like some cats have lost their damned minds up in here on some straight up misogynistic ish and don't even realise it. :smh:

[Salustrade]

Marvel didn't need a viable female character. It had dozens of viable female characters it has Storm and it has Monica Rambeu. We only have one T'Challa one black male of African origin and they took him away and replaced him with a new honey for Wolverine. Every line uttered by Shuri every scene and every adventure she was involved was screen time taken from T'Challa. By the way she was chumped too. So much that she's dead.

I suppose this is your idea of a "viable female character" of colour.











Please feel free to post any images of Shuri bedwenching herself out to Wolverine or asking other hairy mammals out on a date.

[Francisco]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

[KIP LEWIS]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

Based upon what? What issue showed ANY connection between them? Fan fiction doesn't count.

[Salustrade]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

You obviously don't have a point which explains this weak ass non-response from you.

It's contrary so-called fans like yourself that actually make it easy for companies like Marvel to chump out your favorite characters due to your inability to focus on what's really important until it's to freaking late.

If half of you were as really down to support the BP mythos as you claim to be, said mythos would be in a much better place now.

Instead, you stay here yapping about non-existent panels of Shuri compromising herself with Wolverine whils ignoring panels that actually show the "pristine" Ororo cheapening herself with the selfsame mutant dwarf.

GTFOH with that BS.

[Salustrade]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

Based upon what? What issue showed ANY connection between them? Fan fiction doesn't count.

It's a figment of francisco's fevered imagination. :smh:

[Francisco]

Seem to remember reading while lurking pages and pages of complains about how Shuri was eyeing the Wolves... Or were the Doras?

[Emperorjones]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

Based upon what? What issue showed ANY connection between them? Fan fiction doesn't count.

Didn't Logan mentor Shuri in Klaws of the Panther?

[supreme illuminati]

Reed can be the greatest intellect of the MU but he got his intellect via cosmic rays. And he lacks the spiritual strength cultural maturity combat skills etc that TChalla has.

Mainstream Reed didn't get his intellect via the cosmic rays.   Ultimate Reed's intellect increased because of the change but mainstream Reed's intellect is all natural.   (Just like his father who is in their league for intellect. )

Yep, you're right. Soon as I wrote that, I knew someone would correct me...regarding the cosmic rays thing.

Regardless? I think that a conversation from TChalla clearing up that whole "greatest intellect" thing would be required. If not? Other writers will perpetually cast TChalla out of The Top 3--Reed, Tony, TChalla--and insert him at the lower end of the spectrum. If he's counted amongst the elite intellects at all.

RH had TChalla ensconced above Reed Richards. CJP had TChalla as "the shrewdest man in the Marvel Universe". I have zero. Zilch. Problem with such depictions. I honestly think that TChalla being the supreme intellect makes a whole lot. Lot. More sense than either Tony or Reed being the MU's supreme intellect. Neither Tony or Reed are the result of 10,000 years of selective training meritocracies and breeding from humanity's greatest civilization..and one of the galaxy's greatest civilizations of all time...to be the incarnated epitome of all things desirable to said civilization. Tony? His dad was smart and rich. Pretty much the same with Reed. 10k years of nothing was behind them. No disrespect to either Tony or Reed cuz I like them. But. They shouldn't be able to lay a glove on T'Challa and America can't see Wakanda.

Hickman, however, specifically had Reed state to Captain America that Reed is "fractionally" smarter than Tony Stark, but Stark is the greatest multitasker in the world. He's a futurist; a man of the future railing against the slow progress of the here and now. This same Hickman clearly places TChalla amongst the Top 3 intellects as he had Tony state that TChalla and Reed are the two smartest people that he knows. TChalla

[Vic Vega]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

Based upon what? What issue showed ANY connection between them? Fan fiction doesn't count.

Didn't Logan mentor Shuri in Klaws of the Panther?

She teamed up with Logan, Spider Man and Black Widow for one issue each in her miniseres.

[Salustrade]

Shuri was just a panel or so to be the next notch on Wolverine's belt of conquests. So what's your point?

Based upon what? What issue showed ANY connection between them? Fan fiction doesn't count.

Didn't Logan mentor Shuri in Klaws of the Panther?

She teamed up with Logan, Spider Man and Black Widow for one issue each in her miniseres.

I seem to remember Kazar, Shanna the She-Devil and Ororo turning up in that mini-series too so I'm suprised Francisco hasn't accused Shuri of having an orgy with all of the guest stars who featured in KKKlaws of The Panther.

[Ture]

@ Supreme and Kip.

One of the challenges with debating Tchalla's intellectual acumen in comparison to Victor, Reed and Tony is the wide breadth in between the Black Panther's scientific accomplishments. There was of course the precedent set by Lee and Kirby in Black Panther's 1966 Fantastic Four debut and 1968's Tales of Suspense.  While subsequent showings in Tchalla's early Avenger appearances showed signs of inventive genius it was during this time that the gulf between scientific inventions began to widen. There were almost no scientific inventions of notice during McGregor's  Panther's Rage, Panther vs. the Klan, Panther's Quest and Panther's Prey; nothing in Kirby's Black Panther series or Gillis' four issue limited series.

This chasm of non scientific genius arguably spans from 1971 to 1998. Unfortunately this not only holds true for Tchalla but for Wakanda as well. However during this same time period the pages of the Fantastic Four, Iron Man and where ever Dr Doom appeared are littered with great scientific achievements and advancements. It wasn't until Priest in 1998 that Tchalla became three steps ahead of his friends and enemies and not til Hudlin in 2005 that Wakanda became the unconquered nation.

Another challenge is how Tchalla does in direct competition with Reed, Tony and Victor. In regards to standard equipment, with their armors, both Iron Man and Dr Doom are far better prepared with a much greater range of protection, offensive and defensive capabilities, multiple environs and transportation than the Black Panther. If it weren't for Priest and Hickman (yes I said Hickman) the Black Panther would be little more than Liss' Man Without Fear. Notice I inferred Daredevil and not Batman, the latter to whom has constant upgrades, almost always saves himself and consistently has his own transportation.

Tchalla (and Wakanda) has been taking Ls from Victor since their inaugural meeting in  Astonishing Tales. Hudlin himself delivered one of the Black Panther's greatest defeats by Dr Doom, contradicting a previous prep upgrade he gave Tchalla in the light armor. Even McDuffie had to mention that Tchalla borrowed the idea of the cosmic ray harness from Victor. Dr Doom invents a time machine, the Black Panther has two stolen temperamental, temporal crossing frogs. Reed discovered the consistently used and constantly referenced Negative Zone while Tchalla has the single use plot device Nowhere Room.

These and many other examples are what make it difficult for the Black Panther to be seen on par with Richards, Stark and Doom. Priest is the only writer who got it right. He consistently delivered (much to the chagrin of some fanboys) a Black Panther that could be seen on the same level and in some cases exceeding said levels of Reed, Tony and Victor. Priest's secret lied in not just demonstrating the scientific intellectual ability of Tchalla but in accenting the shrewd and strategic manipulation he employed by mastering the psychology of others, due to his paramount motivation of preserving Wakanda at all cost.

[Salustrade]

@ Supreme and Kip.

One of the challenge with debating Tchalla's intellectual acumen in comparison to Victor, Reed and Tony is the wide breadth in between the Black Panther's scientific accomplishments. There was of course the precedent set by Lee and Kirby in Black Panther's 1966 Fantastic Four debut and 1968's Tales of Suspense.  While subsequent showings in Tchalla's early Avenger appearances showed signs of inventive genius it was during this time that the gulf between scientific inventions began to widen. There were almost no scientific inventions of notice during McGregor's  Panther's Rage, Panther vs. the Klan, Panther's Quest and Panther's Prey; nothing in Kirby's Black Panther series or Gillis' four issue limited series.

This chasm of non scientific genius arguably spans from 1971 to 1998. Unfortunately this not only holds true for Tchalla but for Wakanda as well. However during this same time period the pages of the Fantastic Four, Iron Man and where ever Dr Doom appeared are littered with great scientific achievements and advancements. It wasn't until Priest in 1998 that Tchalla became three steps ahead of his friends and enemies and not til Hudlin in 2005 that Wakanda became the unconquered nation.

Another challenge is how Tchalla does in direct competition with Reed, Tony and Victor. In regards to standard equipment, with their armors, both Iron Man and Dr Doom are far better prepared with a much greater range of protection, offensive and defensive capabilities, multiple environs and transportation than the Black Panther. If it weren't for Priest and Hickman (yes I said Hickman) the Black Panther would be little more than Liss' Man Without Fear. Notice I inferred Daredevil and not Batman, the latter to whom has constant upgrades, almost always saves himself and consistently has his own transportation.

Tchalla (and Wakanda) has been taking Ls from Victor since their inaugural meeting in  Astonishing Tales. Hudlin himself delivered one of the Black Panther's greatest defeats by Dr Doom, contradicting a previous prep upgrade he gave Tchalla in the light armor. Even McDuffie had to mention that Tchalla borrowed the idea of the cosmic ray harness from Victor. Dr Doom invents a time machine, the Black Panther has two stolen temperamental, temporal crossing frogs. Reed discovered the consistently used and constantly referenced Negative Zone while Tchalla has the single use plot device Nowhere Room.

These and many other examples are what make it difficult for the Black Panther to be seen on par with Richards, Stark and Doom. Priest is the only writer who got it right. He consistently delivered (much to the chagrin of some fanboys) a Black Panther that could be seen on the same level and in some cases exceeding said levels of Reed, Tony and Victor. Priest's secret lied in not just demonstrating the scientific intellectual ability of Tchalla but in accenting the shrewd and strategic manipulation he employed by mastering the psychology of others, due to his paramount motivation of preserving Wakanda at all cost.

Thanks for this brilliantly revealing post Ture. 

[Francisco]

@ Supreme and Kip.

One of the challenges with debating Tchalla's intellectual acumen in comparison to Victor, Reed and Tony is the wide breadth in between the Black Panther's scientific accomplishments. There was of course the precedent set by Lee and Kirby in Black Panther's 1966 Fantastic Four debut and 1968's Tales of Suspense.  While subsequent showings in Tchalla's early Avenger appearances showed signs of inventive genius it was during this time that the gulf between scientific inventions began to widen. There were almost no scientific inventions of notice during McGregor's  Panther's Rage, Panther vs. the Klan, Panther's Quest and Panther's Prey; nothing in Kirby's Black Panther series or Gillis' four issue limited series.

This chasm of non scientific genius arguably spans from 1971 to 1998. Unfortunately this not only holds true for Tchalla but for Wakanda as well. However during this same time period the pages of the Fantastic Four, Iron Man and where ever Dr Doom appeared are littered with great scientific achievements and advancements. It wasn't until Priest in 1998 that Tchalla became three steps ahead of his friends and enemies and not til Hudlin in 2005 that Wakanda became the unconquered nation.

Another challenge is how Tchalla does in direct competition with Reed, Tony and Victor. In regards to standard equipment, with their armors, both Iron Man and Dr Doom are far better prepared with a much greater range of protection, offensive and defensive capabilities, multiple environs and transportation than the Black Panther. If it weren't for Priest and Hickman (yes I said Hickman) the Black Panther would be little more than Liss' Man Without Fear. Notice I inferred Daredevil and not Batman, the latter to whom has constant upgrades, almost always saves himself and consistently has his own transportation.

Tchalla (and Wakanda) has been taking Ls from Victor since their inaugural meeting in  Astonishing Tales. Hudlin himself delivered one of the Black Panther's greatest defeats by Dr Doom, contradicting a previous prep upgrade he gave Tchalla in the light armor. Even McDuffie had to mention that Tchalla borrowed the idea of the cosmic ray harness from Victor. Dr Doom invents a time machine, the Black Panther has two stolen temperamental, temporal crossing frogs. Reed discovered the consistently used and constantly referenced Negative Zone while Tchalla has the single use plot device Nowhere Room.

These and many other examples are what make it difficult for the Black Panther to be seen on par with Richards, Stark and Doom. Priest is the only writer who got it right. He consistently delivered (much to the chagrin of some fanboys) a Black Panther that could be seen on the same level and in some cases exceeding said levels of Reed, Tony and Victor. Priest's secret lied in not just demonstrating the scientific intellectual ability of Tchalla but in accenting the shrewd and strategic manipulation he employed by mastering the psychology of others, due to his paramount motivation of preserving Wakanda at all cost.

And if on top of that you cripple him and get him replaced by a retconned sister. You're not making the character any favors.

[Ture]

@ Supreme and Kip.

One of the challenge with debating Tchalla's intellectual acumen in comparison to Victor, Reed and Tony is the wide breadth in between the Black Panther's scientific accomplishments. There was of course the precedent set by Lee and Kirby in Black Panther's 1966 Fantastic Four debut and 1968's Tales of Suspense.  While subsequent showings in Tchalla's early Avenger appearances showed signs of inventive genius it was during this time that the gulf between scientific inventions began to widen. There were almost no scientific inventions of notice during McGregor's  Panther's Rage, Panther vs. the Klan, Panther's Quest and Panther's Prey; nothing in Kirby's Black Panther series or Gillis' four issue limited series.

This chasm of non scientific genius arguably spans from 1971 to 1998. Unfortunately this not only holds true for Tchalla but for Wakanda as well. However during this same time period the pages of the Fantastic Four, Iron Man and where ever Dr Doom appeared are littered with great scientific achievements and advancements. It wasn't until Priest in 1998 that Tchalla became three steps ahead of his friends and enemies and not til Hudlin in 2005 that Wakanda became the unconquered nation.

Another challenge is how Tchalla does in direct competition with Reed, Tony and Victor. In regards to standard equipment, with their armors, both Iron Man and Dr Doom are far better prepared with a much greater range of protection, offensive and defensive capabilities, multiple environs and transportation than the Black Panther. If it weren't for Priest and Hickman (yes I said Hickman) the Black Panther would be little more than Liss' Man Without Fear. Notice I inferred Daredevil and not Batman, the latter to whom has constant upgrades, almost always saves himself and consistently has his own transportation.

Tchalla (and Wakanda) has been taking Ls from Victor since their inaugural meeting in  Astonishing Tales. Hudlin himself delivered one of the Black Panther's greatest defeats by Dr Doom, contradicting a previous prep upgrade he gave Tchalla in the light armor. Even McDuffie had to mention that Tchalla borrowed the idea of the cosmic ray harness from Victor. Dr Doom invents a time machine, the Black Panther has two stolen temperamental, temporal crossing frogs. Reed discovered the consistently used and constantly referenced Negative Zone while Tchalla has the single use plot device Nowhere Room.

These and many other examples are what make it difficult for the Black Panther to be seen on par with Richards, Stark and Doom. Priest is the only writer who got it right. He consistently delivered (much to the chagrin of some fanboys) a Black Panther that could be seen on the same level and in some cases exceeding said levels of Reed, Tony and Victor. Priest's secret lied in not just demonstrating the scientific intellectual ability of Tchalla but in accenting the shrewd and strategic manipulation he employed by mastering the psychology of others, due to his paramount motivation of preserving Wakanda at all cost.

Thanks for this brilliantly revealing post Ture. 

Shuri's is one of the most important contributions not only to the Black Panther franchise but the comic book industry itself; as such, her creation should not be called into question. It wasn't Shuri who took anything from Tchalla, it was Maberry, Arron, Hickman and if I'm being honest Hudlin.
 
Shuri is unique among so called black characters. Unlike Storm who was created to be a so-called minority character, designed to help diversify a predominately white male team while simultaneously morphing into a white fanboy's fetish symbol; Shuri represented a sovereign cultural integrity exemplified by royal familial bonds that gave Afrakan women and girls a heroine to identify with.

Unfortunately Ororo was a cultural time bomb ready for detonation the moment she came in proximity to any other Afrakan (so called Black). Reggie's attempts to defuse Storm were undermined once he stopped writing her. However it was under Hudlin (and the artists with him during much of his tenure) that Shuri  (and the re-imaged Dora Milaje) helped to redefine and promote an often under valued aesthetic.  Shuri came to epitomize not only the warrior but responsible ruler-ship, a true Black Panther.

For all the lip service paid to such concepts as diversity and so called minority representation it seems natural to have a Shuri, Queen Divine Justice and Dora Milaje as much as a Ororo, Monet St Croix and a Misty Knight.

Thus a more credible argument would be structured around the lack of detail in outlining Wakandan ascendancy to the throne and the consistency in maintaining such. A broader approach to that argument would be the fleshing out of the entirety of Wakandan society and culture.

One of the realest posts on the subject of Shuri that I've seen in this thread so far.

It's like some cats have lost their damned minds up in here on some straight up misogynistic ish and don't even realise it. :smh:

You're very welcome. Much appreciation and humble gratitude for the kind words Brother Sal.