BP710: THE PROTOCOLS - Black Panther is Overpowered: Why That's A Good Thing!

[Ture]

Thank you Battle and I greatly appreciate your words. I intend to get back to writing some more fan fiction and even rewriting some of the previous works to make a more cohesive story. I've always felt that fans and enthusiasts are the gatekeepers and such play a most important role in the development and path a character goes. It is our vigilance that will permit Black Panther comics to survive  and better yet thrive post Coastes.

The disdain you express for Mr. Coates is odd.

Is this a personal issue you have with the accomplished author?

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

[Battle]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

[CvilleWakandan]

Thank you Battle and I greatly appreciate your words. I intend to get back to writing some more fan fiction and even rewriting some of the previous works to make a more cohesive story. I've always felt that fans and enthusiasts are the gatekeepers and such play a most important role in the development and path a character goes. It is our vigilance that will permit Black Panther comics to survive  and better yet thrive post Coastes.

The disdain you express for Mr. Coates is odd.

Is this a personal issue you have with the accomplished author?

It's his Black Panther comics. I don't keep up with anything else.

[Battle]

I don't keep up with anything else.

An understatement, if there ever was one. 

[CvilleWakandan]

I don't keep up with anything else.

An understatement, if there ever was one. 

How is a fact an understatement?

[Ture]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

Coates outside of comic books is a different subject. Here at the HEF Black Panther board it's all about that King of Wakanda and here at a comic book site comic books are serious.

[Ture]

In keeping with our New Year's resolution...


"SHOW THEM WHO YOU ARE!"

THE VOICE: CONFIDENT - COMMANDING - EVEN TEMPERED - ATTITUDE - TONE -  GRAVITAS - PERSONALITY

[Ezyo]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

You know what else is serious? That same person leaking into the the Young minds images that Black people, fall into nearly every racial stereotype the Western world views them as and sows seeds of dysfunction and showing the protagonist as an inept male who constantly gets talked down to, mainly by Black women.

And showing this fictional nation that's a what if, as basically a place just as bad if not worse then the rest of the world because they criticized the rest of the world on how they treated other nations and people

[Ture]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

You know what else is serious? That same person leaking into the the Young minds images that Black people, fall into nearly every racial stereotype the Western world views them as and sows seeds of dysfunction and showing the protagonist as an inept male who constantly gets talked down to, mainly by Black women.

And showing this fictional nation that's a what if, as basically a place just as bad if not worse then the rest of the world because they criticized the rest of the world on how they treated other nations and people

This sums up Coates' most egregious act with regards to the Black Panther. All the ills that plague human society could have placed in say Niganda and Wakanda could have been it player on the other side representing the very best of human civilization and societal maturity.

Coates spoke of making Black Panther some kids Spider-Man but he misses two essentials points regarding that statement. The first is that what made Spidey so great was the fact he was aspirational and we could empathize with him.

Coates' forced mandates in his run of BP deletes such identification and does so unnecessarily. Second just as Ol' Webhead isn't some kid's Dark Knight and as such the Black Panther does not have to be played up to Spider-Man.

Black Panther has always had fans and enthusiast that saw his greatness and potential independent of having to shadow some other character. The BP movie is evidence of such and states a fact I've known my entire existence with Black Panther.

[Battle]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

You know what else is serious? That same person leaking into the the Young minds images that Black people, fall into nearly every racial stereotype the Western world views them as and sows seeds of dysfunction and showing the protagonist as an inept male who constantly gets talked down to, mainly by Black women.

And showing this fictional nation that's a what if, as basically a place just as bad if not worse then the rest of the world because they criticized the rest of the world on how they treated other nations and people

This sums up Coates' most egregious act with regards to the Black Panther. All the ills that plague human society could have placed in say Niganda and Wakanda could have been it player on the other side representing the very best of human civilization and societal maturity.

Coates spoke of making Black Panther some kids Spider-Man but he misses two essentials points regarding that statement. The first is that what made Spidey so great was the fact he was aspirational and we could empathize with him.

Coates' forced mandates in his run of BP deletes such identification and does so unnecessarily. Second just as Ol' Webhead isn't some kid's Dark Knight and as such the Black Panther does not have to be played up to Spider-Man.

Black Panther has always had fans and enthusiast that saw his greatness and potential independent of having to shadow some other character. The BP movie is evidence of such and states a fact I've known my entire existence with Black Panther.

I think I understand where you two are coming from; I think, however, not 100% certain. 

During an interview with Chris Hayes host of MSNBC's All In, Mr. Coates mentions the era he started reading MARVEL comicbooks; around the time Storm became leader of the X-MEN, the Todd McFarlane era and all of his followers. That revelation indicated to me his influences of the medium. If I'm not mistaken, that's probably his idea of 'the best of MARVEL'.  I had stopped reading comicbooks at this time. Took a long haitus because the fun had gone & moved onto other interests.  There were a lot of other things to explore. 

As you already know, I'm ol' school; from my perspective, the best of MARVEL was anything before 1981; there were a few exceptional titles in the late 1980s but many of them far & few in-between.

I see these comicbooks today & just can't see how anyone can be so agitated about them. Well, there's DOOMWAR... and that book was racist as hell from my point of view.   Anyway,  they're not ALL THAT. 
The only worthy titles are the ones that speak truth to power like the Green Lantern (?) panels in the other thread but I can't get into anything dc. Long story for that reason. 
If there's anything to be annoyed with is what you're NOT getting from comicbooks in this day & age.  A majority of the titles out there just don't possess that passion and energy from back-in-th-day.

From Coates himself, part of his exposition on the Black Panther.
 
"I think, this is going to get very, very personal. It's a little different than that. I think over the past year I have enjoyed, to be frank with you, an amount of success I did not expect, I never expected to happen. When that happens, people place you in certain positions you did not even necessarily ask for, and I found myself writing about that in the comic book."

"But to bring that back to T'Challa, that was how I got to the character being in a position where he felt committed to do certain things, but in his heart was really not there. It just really wasn't who he was — he was someone else."

"And so you discover who the person is as you write more about the person. They become realer to you; they become more thick. So you know, maybe I'll circle back at the end of the day, and I'll realize that he really, really enjoys being king. I'm figuring it out."

My point is to suggest that it is not worth your time & energy to be too analytical in the same manner as a typical 'comicbook guy' when the people putting out this comicbook dreck are not putting forth the effort you expect from them. This is very clear in that quote above you posted & the output. It is very clear & evident that the passion is just not there.  Especially from the artwork; based on the simplistic format of today, it all looks the same to me.

[Ezyo]

Exactly, the passion isn't there, hell the interest in T'Challa abd his world isn't there. That's why he keeps pulled Storm and Eden in, two X-Men characters, that's why in the early stages stages od the story, the crystal was supposedly the key for the maroons to receive their memories back was, again, a x men related items. The dude just had the main villain in the latest issue give all this praise to storm.





I mean, that's the type of talk the main villain says about the title Character, and his Supporting cast. But instead we see it's given to out of franchise characters, both of which are from X-Men.

You know who has passion? Geoffrey Thorne aka redjack. He wants to write a bp comic, he likes the character, he wants to elevate the character, and he has proven all this via Avengers Black Panthers quest.  He has the passion, and after Cooglers slam dunk with MCU BP? This old trope that befalls black characters is no longer tolerated, especially given what can be if the person at the helm has the passion

[Battle]

Exactly, the passion isn't there, hell the interest in T'Challa abd his world isn't there. That's why he keeps pulled Storm and Eden in, two X-Men characters, that's why in the early stages stages od the story, the crystal was supposedly the key for the maroons to receive their memories back was, again, a x men related items. The dude just had the main villain in the latest issue give all this praise to storm.

I mean, that's the type of talk the main villain says about the title Character, and his Supporting cast. But instead we see it's given to out of franchise characters, both of which are from X-Men.

You know who has passion? Geoffrey Thorne aka redjack. He wants to write a bp comic, he likes the character, he wants to elevate the character, and he has proven all this via Avengers Black Panthers quest.  He has the passion, and after Cooglers slam dunk with MCU BP? This old trope that befalls black characters is no longer tolerated, especially given what can be if the person at the helm has the passion.

When I write about passion, I'm writing about the entire comicbook industry not one person.

Your type of thinking goes back to what I wrote earlier and this is my last post on this matter; I have nothing more to write regarding this 'issue' because I'm convinced. 

No matter how much disdain or vitriol or dislike is posted about Mr. Coates or his accomplishments,  absolutely no one who was ever assigned to 'Black Panther' would ever get in front of the Nation at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C., testify about our plight in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.    Not one. 

We now know who is about the business and who is not.  Mr. Coates is alright with me.

Right now, as I type this there is a dangerous, repugnant agent for Russia,  a criminal if you will,  inside the Executive Mansion at Washington, D.C. pretending to be an American president who has double crossed the entire Nation and our allies ON TRIAL.

Y'know what that means?  There is an unruly tenant in the process of being evicted from the Executive Mansion and he doesn't want to leave.  The People have spoken; look at the approval numbers; there must be witnesses.

…and check this sh!t out: he has rigged the trial so that no witnesses who caught the stupid M/Fer in the act of the crime to not testify against him. There are more people in prison than in the state of Arizona; every single one of them locked up just on WITNESS testimony alone. Never mind evidence that is also required in court proceedings.  The most racist individual people of color have ever seen in generations and he's gloating about the sh!t and he has intimated that he'll betray us again.  We're still in the 1st month of the fiscal year, in a Brand Nubian decade and the 2020 election in November is a loo-o-ng way from today.    We have reached that 'limit break' in this final fantasy.



As I've written before, comicbooks today ain't that _____ ing serious. 

[Salustrade]

Exactly, the passion isn't there, hell the interest in T'Challa abd his world isn't there. That's why he keeps pulled Storm and Eden in, two X-Men characters, that's why in the early stages stages od the story, the crystal was supposedly the key for the maroons to receive their memories back was, again, a x men related items. The dude just had the main villain in the latest issue give all this praise to storm.

I mean, that's the type of talk the main villain says about the title Character, and his Supporting cast. But instead we see it's given to out of franchise characters, both of which are from X-Men.

You know who has passion? Geoffrey Thorne aka redjack. He wants to write a bp comic, he likes the character, he wants to elevate the character, and he has proven all this via Avengers Black Panthers quest.  He has the passion, and after Cooglers slam dunk with MCU BP? This old trope that befalls black characters is no longer tolerated, especially given what can be if the person at the helm has the passion.

When I write about passion, I'm writing about the entire comicbook industry not one person.

Your type of thinking goes back to what I wrote earlier and this is my last post on this matter; I have nothing more to write regarding this 'issue' because I'm convinced. 

No matter how much disdain or vitriol or dislike is posted about Mr. Coates or his accomplishments,  absolutely no one who was ever assigned to 'Black Panther' would ever get in front of the Nation at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C., testify about our plight in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.    Not one. 

We now know who is about the business and who is not.  Mr. Coates is alright with me.

Right now, as I type this there is a dangerous, repugnant agent for Russia,  a criminal if you will,  inside the Executive Mansion at Washington, D.C. pretending to be an American president who has double crossed the entire Nation and our allies ON TRIAL.

Y'know what that means?  There is an unruly tenant in the process of being evicted from the Executive Mansion and he doesn't want to leave.  The People have spoken; look at the approval numbers; there must be witnesses.

…and check this sh!t out: he has rigged the trial so that no witnesses who caught the stupid M/Fer in the act of the crime to not testify against him. There are more people in prison than in the state of Arizona; every single one of them locked up just on WITNESS testimony alone. Never mind evidence that is also required in court proceedings.  The most racist individual people of color have ever seen in generations and he's gloating about the sh!t and he has intimated that he'll betray us again.  We're still in the 1st month of the fiscal year, in a Brand Nubian decade and the 2020 election in November is a loo-o-ng way from today.    We have reached that 'limit break' in this final fantasy.



As I've written before, comicbooks today ain't that _____ ing serious. 

You are of course, entitled to hold whatever opinion you wish as regards Coates importance in relation to social issues impacting upon African-American interests.

This however, has ZERO relevance as to how Coates atrocious work on the Black Panthet solo book as well as the mythos in its entirety,  is perceived and rejected by actual BP Mythos enthusiasts who pay good money to read stories about a character they appreciate.

Coates maybe alright in your eyes just based on his stance in the reparations issue but as far as his work on the BP book is concerned, Coates is a PoS especially as his work on the Captain America solo book, proves that he's more than capable of writing a titular character properly.

Ta Nehisi Coates is most definitely a steaming PoS.

[Ture]

What's odd about not liking much of the way Coates writes Black Panther and his world. I don't personally harbor any feelings that Coates is unworthy of my consideration or respect. I don't personally hold any contempt for him. Coates iteration of Black Panther (and Wakanda) lacks the qualities that so defined him as a character. These qualities were on full blast during Preist and Hudlin's runs not to mention Gillis, Liss and Mc Duffie. Even Aaron and Hickman get some points. So any "disdain" would be for his portrayal of the character.

Comicbooks are cute & fun but not that serious.

Wanna know what's serious?

Someone who can draw congressional attention at Capitol Hill, Washington D.C. in support of Representative Sheila Jackson-Lee of Texas' proposed bill, HR 40, the commission to Study and Develop Reparation Proposals for African-Americans.

You know what else is serious? That same person leaking into the the Young minds images that Black people, fall into nearly every racial stereotype the Western world views them as and sows seeds of dysfunction and showing the protagonist as an inept male who constantly gets talked down to, mainly by Black women.

And showing this fictional nation that's a what if, as basically a place just as bad if not worse then the rest of the world because they criticized the rest of the world on how they treated other nations and people

This sums up Coates' most egregious act with regards to the Black Panther. All the ills that plague human society could have placed in say Niganda and Wakanda could have been it player on the other side representing the very best of human civilization and societal maturity.

Coates spoke of making Black Panther some kids Spider-Man but he misses two essentials points regarding that statement. The first is that what made Spidey so great was the fact he was aspirational and we could empathize with him.

Coates' forced mandates in his run of BP deletes such identification and does so unnecessarily. Second just as Ol' Webhead isn't some kid's Dark Knight and as such the Black Panther does not have to be played up to Spider-Man.

Black Panther has always had fans and enthusiast that saw his greatness and potential independent of having to shadow some other character. The BP movie is evidence of such and states a fact I've known my entire existence with Black Panther.

I think I understand where you two are coming from; I think, however, not 100% certain. 

During an interview with Chris Hayes host of MSNBC's All In, Mr. Coates mentions the era he started reading MARVEL comicbooks; around the time Storm became leader of the X-MEN, the Todd McFarlane era and all of his followers. That revelation indicated to me his influences of the medium. If I'm not mistaken, that's probably his idea of 'the best of MARVEL'.  I had stopped reading comicbooks at this time. Took a long haitus because the fun had gone & moved onto other interests.  There were a lot of other things to explore. 

As you already know, I'm ol' school; from my perspective, the best of MARVEL was anything before 1981; there were a few exceptional titles in the late 1980s but many of them far & few in-between.

I see these comicbooks today & just can't see how anyone can be so agitated about them. Well, there's DOOMWAR... and that book was racist as hell from my point of view.   Anyway,  they're not ALL THAT. 
The only worthy titles are the ones that speak truth to power like the Green Lantern (?) panels in the other thread but I can't get into anything dc. Long story for that reason. 
If there's anything to be annoyed with is what you're NOT getting from comicbooks in this day & age.  A majority of the titles out there just don't possess that passion and energy from back-in-th-day.

From Coates himself, part of his exposition on the Black Panther.
 
"I think, this is going to get very, very personal. It's a little different than that. I think over the past year I have enjoyed, to be frank with you, an amount of success I did not expect, I never expected to happen. When that happens, people place you in certain positions you did not even necessarily ask for, and I found myself writing about that in the comic book."

"But to bring that back to T'Challa, that was how I got to the character being in a position where he felt committed to do certain things, but in his heart was really not there. It just really wasn't who he was — he was someone else."

"And so you discover who the person is as you write more about the person. They become realer to you; they become more thick. So you know, maybe I'll circle back at the end of the day, and I'll realize that he really, really enjoys being king. I'm figuring it out."

My point is to suggest that it is not worth your time & energy to be too analytical in the same manner as a typical 'comicbook guy' when the people putting out this comicbook dreck are not putting forth the effort you expect from them. This is very clear in that quote above you posted & the output. It is very clear & evident that the passion is just not there.  Especially from the artwork; based on the simplistic format of today, it all looks the same to me.

Contemporary comic books are the victim of internal discord, political trends and social influencers. Now, keeping in tone with what you stated... If a man as important as Coates can take the time to write comic books and imbue them with his political views and social commentary I think its in your purview to see why fans and enthusiasts take the time to express their opinions on such.

[Ture]

"Contemporary comic books are the victim of internal discord, political trends and social influencers." Exhibit A. Today, the rumor mill churned up some click-bait that going forward Marvel will be making Shuri the Black Panther. The reason being 1) it happened in the comic and 2) more female representation is needed. To add some fodder they went on to state that Chadwick was not pleased with such a change.

The latter statement discredits its self as Shuri is female and represents well. For the former argument that it happened in the comics... so what. The fact that T'Challa stated in the comic book that during the aprtheid era of Azania he sought to give the indigenous Afrakan population weapons, economic power, money. No mention of that.

Let's take it to the bridge. Wakanda helping to fight against the European American slave trade happened in the comics and they went out of their way from opening narrative to Killmonger's soliloquy to state Wakanda did nothing.