Author Topic: 12 Years a Slave  (Read 15788 times)

Offline michaelintp

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2013, 04:21:06 pm »
Of course I'll keep my day job, and hopefully you can restrain yourself from spewing more of your b.s. on this forum. If you like the movie or don't, that's cool, but don't psychoanalyze (your word) these mythical black folks who are going to be driven mad by 12 Years. It's insulting and condescending, but you seem to be real good at that.

Ohhhhh please . Boo hoo hoo.  :'(

Seems while you said you would agree if I agreed about "some" ... that was just more of your rhetorical bullsh*t. I make one observation buried among many others, surrounding the film and what I saw in the Q&A afterwards, and you go into a tizzy.

The double standard ... again and again and again. It is a recurring theme.

THAT is what is disgusting.

I'm not again going to be dragged into conversations repeated time and time again. Been there, done that.  Rather, from time to time I may make an observation, and leave it at that. 

In this instance, I shared my thoughts and feelings in connection with "12 Years a Slave." What was running through my mind during the film, during the Q&A and afterwards.
 
Feel free to do the same.
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2013, 12:57:43 pm »
^
Get the chip off your shoulder and get over your persecution complex. Wah wah wah, I'm a conservative and I'm the real victim.

I've already expressed my thoughts about this film in an earlier post. Here is what I will say about the 'some' comment. I do believe that some black people who watch this film will experience a variety of emotions and one of them might be anger at what their ancestors were forced to endure. That doesn't make them racists, biased, or harbor a hatred for 'contemporary Caucasians'. That makes them human. And why should black people have to have an exalted selflessness or empathy for our ancestors' slavers when it comes to historic subject matter such as this?

And I make a distinction between those critics who have issues with Obama on legitimate policy grounds and those who dislike him because of his race. Though I do think that some people's policy disagreements are animated by their distaste for the color of his skin. That it amplifies the ideological divide, and that they hide behind ideology or use some other reason to mask their real racial hatred or racial anxiety over the president and the idea that the 'traditional' America they knew is being threatened by him and the rising brown and black hordes he supposedly represents or leads.

And what I mean by that is going beyond debating the president into disrespecting him and his family, and sometimes using racial stereotypes or racially derogatory images. If you don't like the man's policies, that's fine, but the idea that he's not an American, that being friendly with him is anathema, that you need to take the country back. Back from whom? Granted that's a standard political line but it took on a fevered weight in the early years of the Obama administration and was part of the noxious brew that beget the Tea Party.

If you've read any of my posts regarding Obama, I've been very critical. I started out as a supporter but over time became a critic and I've had long tussles with other posters on this forum. So I can understand the idea of having policy differences without those being driven by racial animus.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 01:18:59 pm by Emperorjones »

Offline Tanksleyd

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12 Years a Slave
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2013, 02:00:08 pm »

An improvement in American Race Relations? : No
For there are those who will use any forum
To belittle any entertaining thought
That Black Americans are equal
As we cheer for a perfection
Of a death with reefer
They are drunk for
A quick & good
Riddence
 

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #33 on: November 19, 2013, 07:10:22 am »
Last I checked all the Black folks were running to see Best Man Holidays.

If anything the Black movie audience tends to be indifferent to movie where they see themselves in turmoil and strife. We will however run to see movies with a group of attractive relatively well off Black folk as the cast.

Which anybody with eyes could have told you.

Hollywood rediscovers this truism about every 10 years or so as if they couldn't figured it out just by looking at box office stats.

So the idea that any significant amount of Black folk are going to go to see 12 years to power up on rage or whatever,
isnt backed up by any kind of objective reality.

To say that a small, undefined number of people might do something isn't really meaningful. 

I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.

Offline Tanksleyd

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12 Years a Slave
« Reply #34 on: November 19, 2013, 07:57:50 am »
Last I checked all the Black folks were running to see Best Man Holidays.

If anything the Black movie audience tends to be indifferent to movie where they see themselves in turmoil and strife. We will however run to see movies with a group of attractive relatively well off Black folk as the cast.

Which anybody with eyes could have told you.

Hollywood rediscovers this truism about every 10 years or so as if they couldn't figured it out just by looking at box office stats.

So the idea that any significant amount of Black folk are going to go to see 12 years to power up on rage or whatever,
isnt backed up by any kind of objective reality.

To say that a small, undefined number of people might do something isn't really meaningful. 

I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.

As we cheer for a perfection
Vicky V is spot on
As always
 :)
 

Offline The Evasive 1

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #35 on: November 19, 2013, 02:38:53 pm »
Last I checked all the Black folks were running to see Best Man Holidays.

If anything the Black movie audience tends to be indifferent to movie where they see themselves in turmoil and strife. We will however run to see movies with a group of attractive relatively well off Black folk as the cast.

Which anybody with eyes could have told you.

Hollywood rediscovers this truism about every 10 years or so as if they couldn't figured it out just by looking at box office stats.

So the idea that any significant amount of Black folk are going to go to see 12 years to power up on rage or whatever,
isnt backed up by any kind of objective reality.

To say that a small, undefined number of people might do something isn't really meaningful. 

I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.

As we cheer for a perfection
Vicky V is spot on
As always
 :)
::) Sadly, I agree.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #36 on: November 19, 2013, 03:36:42 pm »
Cowardice
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #37 on: November 20, 2013, 02:48:26 pm »
Last I checked all the Black folks were running to see Best Man Holidays.

If anything the Black movie audience tends to be indifferent to movie where they see themselves in turmoil and strife. We will however run to see movies with a group of attractive relatively well off Black folk as the cast.

Which anybody with eyes could have told you.

Hollywood rediscovers this truism about every 10 years or so as if they couldn't figured it out just by looking at box office stats.

So the idea that any significant amount of Black folk are going to go to see 12 years to power up on rage or whatever,
isnt backed up by any kind of objective reality.

To say that a small, undefined number of people might do something isn't really meaningful. 

I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.

Rarely do we agree it seems but I think you make some good points here. A lot of this supposed anti-white rage over 12 Years a Slave is not supported by the facts.

With Best Man Holiday which in one weekend trumped 12 Years' entire box office, and that movie has been out in limited and widening release for almost a month now, in the first weekend alone. I'm generalizing, but I do think there are large groups of black folks who don't want to see another film about black despair, even if it's one of a man overcoming the odds. A lot of people want to be entertained, want to see black characters love and laugh and not always be put through a wringer. Though the depth of historical knowledge varies, many blacks already know (unlike Richard Cohen it seems) that slavery was horrific and 12 Years will likely not be that big of a shock to them.

Offline michaelintp

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #38 on: November 20, 2013, 06:00:40 pm »
Last I checked all the Black folks were running to see Best Man Holidays.

If anything the Black movie audience tends to be indifferent to movie where they see themselves in turmoil and strife. We will however run to see movies with a group of attractive relatively well off Black folk as the cast.

Which anybody with eyes could have told you.

Hollywood rediscovers this truism about every 10 years or so as if they couldn't figured it out just by looking at box office stats.

So the idea that any significant amount of Black folk are going to go to see 12 years to power up on rage or whatever,
isnt backed up by any kind of objective reality.

To say that a small, undefined number of people might do something isn't really meaningful. 

I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.

Rarely do we agree it seems but I think you make some good points here. A lot of this supposed anti-white rage over 12 Years a Slave is not supported by the facts.

With Best Man Holiday which in one weekend trumped 12 Years' entire box office, and that movie has been out in limited and widening release for almost a month now, in the first weekend alone. I'm generalizing, but I do think there are large groups of black folks who don't want to see another film about black despair, even if it's one of a man overcoming the odds. A lot of people want to be entertained, want to see black characters love and laugh and not always be put through a wringer. Though the depth of historical knowledge varies, many blacks already know (unlike Richard Cohen it seems) that slavery was horrific and 12 Years will likely not be that big of a shock to them.

"Anti-white rage" ...? Wow, you are taking my passing comment and exaggerating it to a whole new level.

We all know that there are some African-Americans who harbor racial animosity against Caucasians. Now, in 2013. (Probably a greater number than the number of persons who are opposed to NASA.) Some belong to ideological movements in which this is part of their explicit dogma. Others just feel that way. This is not a revelation. Antisemitism exists as well. In some movements and individuals. None of this is mythical.

I am not "in fear" that these elements will hijack "12 Years a Slave." Because I believe they are in the minority. I do believe they will try.

The reaction against those persons who perpetrated slavery is natural and human. Such a reaction against those who share the same skin pigmentation a century and a half later is not. I believe most people, decent people, know this.

I believe it is a valuable film, particularly for the ignorant, but also in the film's ability to convey in images what the written word can't.

I also believe you are correct that a lot of black Americans have no interest in seeing the film, because it doesn't inform them of something they don't already know, regarding the horrors of slavery. In the same way that I avoid depressing Holocaust films. There is nothing wrong with this. Makes sense, actually.





« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 11:06:47 am by michaelintp »
The spirit of emptiness is immortal.
It is called the Great Mother
because it gives birth to Heaven and Earth.
It is like a vapor,
barely seen but always present.
Use it effortlessly.

Tao Te Ching, Ch. 6

Offline Battle

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #39 on: November 20, 2013, 06:25:40 pm »
I mean, there also might be somebody out there who will see Gravity and use it to justify thier anti NASA agenda
but nobody is worried about that.




OKAY...  you've got me there...!

Offline moor

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2013, 12:34:38 pm »

I also believe you are correct that a lot of black Americans have no interest in seeing the film, because it doesn't inform them of something they don't already know, regarding the horrors of slavery. In the same way that I avoid depressing Holocaust films. There is nothing wrong with this. Makes sense, actually.

^This^   Was the No. 1 response to my interrogatories aimed at friends who hadn't yet seen the movie and further indicated no desire to see it... to be fair, I've only just finished the book a few weeks ago, which was such a short and forceful read I felt embarassed never having heard of it prior to the film's buzz... 

Although, in my case, despite what I thought I knew about the horrors of slavery, I was still informed and enlightened, because the book is ultimately about keeping one's own humanity despite the inhumanity all around.  And each story provides further enlightenment me about the humanity of the struggle... and helps set me straight when I get into a "whiny" mood...

Offline Metro

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2013, 06:31:45 am »

Which of the films that focused on African American experiences will receive the most support through the awards season?
Dean Walter Greason
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Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2013, 07:37:52 am »
Hmm excellent question there Metro
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline stanleyballard

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2014, 09:16:53 am »
Just saw it....felt some scenes could have gone further like the hanging of Black men in reality often involved mutilation of their genitals and bringing White children out to observe the entire crime and the mandingo situation was avoided but there was some interaction between the Black male lead and the mistress of the plantation.....the most powerful scene was with Patty....intense and haunting.....

Had avoided this one because Hollywood usually dumbs things down and has presented slavery as backdrop or entertainment way too much lately but this movie was probably the best out of the current crop.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2014, 10:56:50 am by stanleyballard »

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Re: 12 Years a Slave
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2014, 07:29:12 pm »
Dude, I almost forgot about this movie. Almost! Why? I did not see anything new. Same ol’ same.  We get it. The real uncivilized people of history carried a false sense of entitlement. The epitome of savagery is slavery. No prestige in savagery. None!

S.O.S. At least in Django Unchained there was a cause for celebration. At least Django had some sort of glory tied-in with it‘s entertainment value.

I did enjoy how the director let some scenes linger. At times, the cinematography had a ‘noir-feel’ with deep shadows & a purposefully use of natural light ( I guess they had to... considering it was a period-piece). Still, well done.
 
I strongly recommend 12 Years...  not for the subject matter of brutality or slave/ bondage fetishism (50 shades of grey) but for the amazing performances. Seriously, the acting truly won me over.