Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 408722 times)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1920 on: April 02, 2015, 04:01:31 am »
The idea of a Storm solo is filled with problems.

First and foremost is something I've mentioned before--Storm is not known for her physical side and 95% of all ongoing solo titles belong to characters who punch, kick, smash.  The one that I can think of off the top of my head who doesn't have a psychical side is Green Lantern, but he made his mark creating giant green fists and punching things.  Yes, I know Storm is a top hand to hand fighter (which is a Mary Sue element added onto her character) but she is not known for that.  Now, if Storm had a different personality, you could write her fighting like a Jedi/Sith.  Using the winds to augment agility; lighting, and other force effects. If she had that kind of personality, she probably would work as a solo.  But Storm is known for striking from a distance.  (She is not alone in this.  Doctor Strange is one of Marvel's oldest, most powerful and known characters and he likewise is not known for his physical abilities, and he cannot maintain a title over the long haul either.  He's going to get a movie and he still won't be able to hold a title over the long haul.)

Second, for all the complaints about Pax, he probably has a big block on his storytelling.  In practically every other solo character, the writer determines what happens to the character and the team titles respond accordingly.  Even Wolverine is control by his solo writers.  But I suspect, that Pax would not be able to explore or change/evolve Storm in ways the X-men writers (Bendis and company) don't approve of.

Third, and let's face it, it's hard to get readers to buy a woman character and a Black character.  Neither of those groups have great success in comics and she's both.  And right now Ms. Marvel has caught the teen girl and minority lightning bolt. 
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 04:50:16 am by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1921 on: April 02, 2015, 07:55:48 pm »
The idea of a Storm solo is filled with problems.

First and foremost is something I've mentioned before--Storm is not known for her physical side and 95% of all ongoing solo titles belong to characters who punch, kick, smash.  The one that I can think of off the top of my head who doesn't have a psychical side is Green Lantern, but he made his mark creating giant green fists and punching things.  Yes, I know Storm is a top hand to hand fighter (which is a Mary Sue element added onto her character) but she is not known for that.  Now, if Storm had a different personality, you could write her fighting like a Jedi/Sith.  Using the winds to augment agility; lighting, and other force effects. If she had that kind of personality, she probably would work as a solo.  But Storm is known for striking from a distance.  (She is not alone in this.  Doctor Strange is one of Marvel's oldest, most powerful and known characters and he likewise is not known for his physical abilities, and he cannot maintain a title over the long haul either.  He's going to get a movie and he still won't be able to hold a title over the long haul.)

Second, for all the complaints about Pax, he probably has a big block on his storytelling.  In practically every other solo character, the writer determines what happens to the character and the team titles respond accordingly.  Even Wolverine is control by his solo writers.  But I suspect, that Pax would not be able to explore or change/evolve Storm in ways the X-men writers (Bendis and company) don't approve of.

Third, and let's face it, it's hard to get readers to buy a woman character and a Black character.  Neither of those groups have great success in comics and she's both.  And right now Ms. Marvel has caught the teen girl and minority lightning bolt.

Storm's soaring popularity in x-canon, plus the popularity she gained amongst the X-Men due to the 90s Fox cartoon, etc prove all too well how appealing she is to fans. She was not popular as a benefit of being an X-Man, rather her character is what contributed MASSIVELY to making the X-men so popular. Storm is a character who has been able to transcend racial barriers.  All that needs to happen is for Storm to be restored to her beautiful-looking self, she needs foes that are interesting who can actually pose a challenge to her in battle, she needs stories that don't read like the kinds of tales we've read in countless X-Men story arcs, she needs compelling friends separate from the X-Men book, and her awesomeness needs to be restored as she kicks big butt and take names. On top of all of this, the book needs to be marketed much better than what Marvel did this year. What I have just outlined is the recipe for a successful Storm book.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:58:47 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1922 on: April 02, 2015, 08:13:48 pm »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1923 on: April 03, 2015, 12:24:50 am »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Moving on, another thing that would help Storm's book would be for to be restored to her former glory in the X-Men team books. People read the X-Men books. If Storm were made more interesting there like she is when CC writes her, it would encourage more people to pick up her solo title to get more of her. For this reason, I think that while Claremont would not be the best pick for a Storm title for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago on this thread, he would be the ideal writer to author an X-Men book with Storm leading the team. Under his pen, she would shine under the banner of leadership and interest in the character would pick up.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1924 on: April 03, 2015, 02:39:25 am »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Moving on, another thing that would help Storm's book would be for to be restored to her former glory in the X-Men team books. People read the X-Men books. If Storm were made more interesting there like she is when CC writes her, it would encourage more people to pick up her solo title to get more of her. For this reason, I think that while Claremont would not be the best pick for a Storm title for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago on this thread, he would be the ideal writer to author an X-Men book with Storm leading the team. Under his pen, she would shine under the banner of leadership and interest in the character would pick up.

And that is why she is really not popular.   Wolverine,  Spider-Man,  Batman, Thanos, remain popular no matter who is writing them;  whether their writers and artist are stellar or lousy.   Popular means they transcend their creative team.

Characters that fade when new writers take over are just flash in the pans. 

Offline Kristopher

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1925 on: April 03, 2015, 08:13:01 am »
And that is why she is really not popular.   Wolverine,  Spider-Man,  Batman, Thanos, remain popular no matter who is writing them;  whether their writers and artist are stellar or lousy.   Popular means they transcend their creative team.

Characters that fade when new writers take over are just flash in the pans.



Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1926 on: April 03, 2015, 11:30:29 am »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Moving on, another thing that would help Storm's book would be for to be restored to her former glory in the X-Men team books. People read the X-Men books. If Storm were made more interesting there like she is when CC writes her, it would encourage more people to pick up her solo title to get more of her. For this reason, I think that while Claremont would not be the best pick for a Storm title for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago on this thread, he would be the ideal writer to author an X-Men book with Storm leading the team. Under his pen, she would shine under the banner of leadership and interest in the character would pick up.

And that is why she is really not popular.   Wolverine,  Spider-Man,  Batman, Thanos, remain popular no matter who is writing them;  whether their writers and artist are stellar or lousy.   Popular means they transcend their creative team.

Characters that fade when new writers take over are just flash in the pans.

Nice try, but Storm is popular. I still maintain that the major problems with the book is lack of effective advertisement, bad artwork, bad hairdo that makes her look ugly, rehashed stories from the X-Men books instead of creating a world for her unique to her book and separate from the X-Men, the lack of A-list villains or even threats that pose a decent challenge to her in battle, and the lack of big, grand electrifying stories. I was speaking for young, new readership who are just coming on board the X-Men when I thinking of putting CC back on the teambooks.

New readers' exposure to Wolverince prior to coming to the X-Men books could be the movies or one of the newer television animated series. Even if their initial introduction to the character is through the X-Men team books, Wolverine is always going to be depicted as "Wolverine" no matter which venue he is found in. The elements that MAKE/MADE him popular will always be included in his character. Wolverine is popular because of the way his character has been portrayed, same as everyone else on your list (Batman, Thanos, etc.). Storm was made popular because of the way her character was portrayed in the X-Men under CC's pen (and even in the 90s, though the writers did not touch CC's level with her) and the 90s animated series. Unfortunately, unlike Wolverine, Storm is not always "Storm" in every venue she's found in. I feel that one reason Storm's character is not portrayed as well in the movies and in the newer animated series is because she's a black female and some writers probably have a problem with her being as great as she is. Therefore, they tone her down so she doesn't overshadow the white characters. No other explanation makes any sense to me other than this one. The movies did a lot of damage to her character so that new readers coming on board who are not familiar with the CC back issues and the 90s era animated series don't know how awesome she really is. In the X-Men books right now, she's basically Lightning Lass (just flying around and using her powers uncreatively being limited to shooting lightning bolts), her character is nowhere near as interesting as it has been many times in the past, and she's being drawn ugly with that hideous hairdo.

A lot of what made Storm great and popular is missing from her character in the team books now. If Storm was "Storm" in the movies, in the current X-Men team books and the new animated series that came out this millennium just like Wolverine is "Wolverine" in all of those media outlets, the sales on her solo title could be up there near the level of where his sales were before he croaked. That said, if they fixed her up in the team books and made her her old self again, people who would ordinarily not try her solo book because they are new and don't know how awesome she is would pick up her solo title to get more of her. So, bring CC on board to write a team book with Storm on the lineup and fix up the stories and artwork in her solo title so that when new readership try her book they will be engaged by the stories and art to keep buying the book. The only reason any character is popular is because they way they are written connects well with the readership.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 12:24:18 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1927 on: April 03, 2015, 01:36:29 pm »
And that is why she is really not popular.   Wolverine,  Spider-Man,  Batman, Thanos, remain popular no matter who is writing them;  whether their writers and artist are stellar or lousy.   Popular means they transcend their creative team.

Characters that fade when new writers take over are just flash in the pans.


This is a hell of a ko post

Offline A.Curry

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1928 on: April 03, 2015, 02:04:52 pm »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Moving on, another thing that would help Storm's book would be for to be restored to her former glory in the X-Men team books. People read the X-Men books. If Storm were made more interesting there like she is when CC writes her, it would encourage more people to pick up her solo title to get more of her. For this reason, I think that while Claremont would not be the best pick for a Storm title for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago on this thread, he would be the ideal writer to author an X-Men book with Storm leading the team. Under his pen, she would shine under the banner of leadership and interest in the character would pick up.

Unfortunately, CC is not the writer he once was and honestly has become outdated...his Nightcrawler book is an example of that as its using very old ideas and concepts from his heyday, with little to nothing new to offer.  You're basing this opinion on a sense of nostalgia.  Even when he was writing Storm in his heyday, I still doubt a solo book would have outstanding sales.

As I've said before, Storm like most of the Xmen except maybe Logan just isn't built as a solo character...they've always been popular as a team amid how they interact in such.  Alone they don't have enough to go on unless you aggressively build it.

And Pak certainly didn't do that by making her face the same trials and issues and concepts that she's been facing in the xmen for decades.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1929 on: April 03, 2015, 04:14:41 pm »
1) Storm is popular because she's a X-Man not the other way around as her current series proves she didn't make the X-Men famous

2) She hasn't transcended and racial barriers as her X-Men fans are well known for not wanting to even think of her as a black woman in favor of the "she's a bit of everything" Claremont bullsh*t

We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

Moving on, another thing that would help Storm's book would be for to be restored to her former glory in the X-Men team books. People read the X-Men books. If Storm were made more interesting there like she is when CC writes her, it would encourage more people to pick up her solo title to get more of her. For this reason, I think that while Claremont would not be the best pick for a Storm title for reasons I stated a couple of pages ago on this thread, he would be the ideal writer to author an X-Men book with Storm leading the team. Under his pen, she would shine under the banner of leadership and interest in the character would pick up.

Unfortunately, CC is not the writer he once was and honestly has become outdated...his Nightcrawler book is an example of that as its using very old ideas and concepts from his heyday, with little to nothing new to offer.  You're basing this opinion on a sense of nostalgia.  Even when he was writing Storm in his heyday, I still doubt a solo book would have outstanding sales.

As I've said before, Storm like most of the Xmen except maybe Logan just isn't built as a solo character...they've always been popular as a team amid how they interact in such.  Alone they don't have enough to go on unless you aggressively build it.

And Pak certainly didn't do that by making her face the same trials and issues and concepts that she's been facing in the xmen for decades.

I agree with some of what you said here. CC is outdated in many ways. Looking at his NC story and even his "Arena" Storm mini series prove this. That said, his run on "Uncanny X-Men" prior to Storm's marriage to Panther is much better than any run on the X-Men books after he left. If he were to write a Storm solo title, it would quickly become all about the Morlocks, Forge and Yukio with Callisto showing up all the time as a mainstay in the supporting cast. It would be too nostalgic and it would quickly get old. He does better with team books, however, than he does with solos. Part of the reason for this is he has a much broader range of villains to choose from for his stories when writing say, Uncanny X-Men, than he would if writing a solo title. I don't think he's capable of coming up with good villains anymore as every villain he's created since the year 2000 have all been flops save possibly Elias Bogan. Bogan has potential.

I say put CC on Uncanny X-Men and let Storm lead the team and put somebody else on Storm's solo book. Somebody who knows the nuances of Ororor's ability (Pak, Davis and Yost are all good picks in this regard), somebody who will use Storm's abilities in very creative and exciting ways (Davie, Yost and Pak are all good examples of this again), somebody who knows about Storm's indomitable will and outstanding mental defenses, somebody who is able to create new villains for her to fight (the villains must be compelling, epic and have exciting powers), and somebody who has good ideas for how to create a world for her in her own title that is separate from the X-Men books and all other series same as what Thor, Wolverine, Captain America, Hulk, etc have in their own solo titles.

Storm has even more material to work with than Wolverine himself. Its just a matter of the right writer tapping into that potential in a way that will engage readership and Marvel promoting the heck out of the book. Making Storm "Storm" again in the teambooks would be icing on the cake to help too as people like the "real" Storm. The "real" Storm is the Storm that was popular and new readers would fall in love with her if they were exposed to her. It would bring even more readership to her solo title. Wolverine is always written/portrayed as the "real" Wolverine no matter where he is. The same should apply to Ororo. If Marvel can't affect a change in this regard concerning Storm's protrayal in the movie and animated media, they can certainly do so in their team books.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2015, 07:29:11 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1930 on: April 03, 2015, 04:52:25 pm »
Nice try, but Storm is popular. I still maintain that the major problems with the book is lack of effective advertisement, bad artwork, bad hairdo that makes her look ugly, rehashed stories from the X-Men books instead of creating a world for her unique to her book and separate from the X-Men, the lack of A-list villains or even threats that pose a decent challenge to her in battle, and the lack of big, grand electrifying stories. I was speaking for young, new readership who are just coming on board the X-Men when I thinking of putting CC back on the teambooks.

New readers' exposure to Wolverince prior to coming to the X-Men books could be the movies or one of the newer television animated series. Even if their initial introduction to the character is through the X-Men team books, Wolverine is always going to be depicted as "Wolverine" no matter which venue he is found in. The elements that MAKE/MADE him popular will always be included in his character. Wolverine is popular because of the way his character has been portrayed, same as everyone else on your list (Batman, Thanos, etc.). Storm was made popular because of the way her character was portrayed in the X-Men under CC's pen (and even in the 90s, though the writers did not touch CC's level with her) and the 90s animated series. Unfortunately, unlike Wolverine, Storm is not always "Storm" in every venue she's found in. I feel that one reason Storm's character is not portrayed as well in the movies and in the newer animated series is because she's a black female and some writers probably have a problem with her being as great as she is. Therefore, they tone her down so she doesn't overshadow the white characters. No other explanation makes any sense to me other than this one. The movies did a lot of damage to her character so that new readers coming on board who are not familiar with the CC back issues and the 90s era animated series don't know how awesome she really is. In the X-Men books right now, she's basically Lightning Lass (just flying around and using her powers uncreatively being limited to shooting lightning bolts), her character is nowhere near as interesting as it has been many times in the past, and she's being drawn ugly with that hideous hairdo.

A lot of what made Storm great and popular is missing from her character in the team books now. If Storm was "Storm" in the movies, in the current X-Men team books and the new animated series that came out this millennium just like Wolverine is "Wolverine" in all of those media outlets, the sales on her solo title could be up there near the level of where his sales were before he croaked. That said, if they fixed her up in the team books and made her her old self again, people who would ordinarily not try her solo book because they are new and don't know how awesome she is would pick up her solo title to get more of her. So, bring CC on board to write a team book with Storm on the lineup and fix up the stories and artwork in her solo title so that when new readership try her book they will be engaged by the stories and art to keep buying the book. The only reason any character is popular is because they way they are written connects well with the readership.

I grant that Storm in the X-Men is popular, but Storm alone?

Blaming the art doesn't work.  There are several books out right now with much worse art than Storm that are outselling her.  Hawkeye and Wonder Woman are two that come to mind.  (I don't even think Thor has a good artist.)  Of course, some of this is taste.  But I remember a while back, Superman was hit with some of the worse art around.  (Stories weren't any better.)  I asked why does Superman--DC's flagship character--have such sucky artwork?  The answer, because it didn't matter.  Superman will sell multiple titles, no matter how bad the art and stories are.   So no, bad art hasn't hurt Hawkeye or Wonder Woman, so that's not a good enough reason.

"Wolverine is always going to be depicted as "Wolverine" no matter which venue he is found in. The elements that MAKE/MADE him popular will always be included in his character. Wolverine is popular because of the way his character has been portrayed, same as everyone else on your list (Batman, Thanos, etc.)."  I have to laugh at this.  You have said, you really only follow Storm and don't follow other heroes.  If you did, you'd realize how insane that statment is.  Wolverine has been so inconsistently portrayed, that he should be ten different characters.  Is he an animal, a samurai, a ninja, a thug, a scoundrel, a spy, a solider, a super-hero or a wise school master? Compare how he was when he first appeared, ready to rip of Cyclop's head at the drop of a hat.  Now he's the voice of reason headmaster of a school. These characters are mutually exclusive.  And yet, despite all these changes, he remains popular.  Or let's take Thanos, he has been so inconsistently written that Starlin wrote a story to fix this.  Hulk's so inconsistent that they've actually turned it into a story element.  Batman?  Are we talking Adam West Batman or Frank Miller Batman? Those two radically different characters.  Today's Superman is far different than the one we saw 5 years ago.  And it's not even just personality.  Their powers are written across the board.  The same writer has Thor splitting open a Celestial's armor and then a few issues later has a Sabertooth like character getting the upper hand in a fight.  One writer has a normal  python hold Hulk in its unbreakable grip.  While another has his foot steps shake the entire East Coast.  Odin couldn't humble Thanos while Kaz-ar proved strong enough to break Thanos' bear hug.   Yet these characters remain popular no matter how inconsistently they are written.  Storm doesn't need consistency to be popular.

Pax does share a lot of blame here, I do agree, but some of it that the greater comic book audience isn't looking for her as a solo player.  They like her as Storm the X-men.  (And you know, there is nothing wrong with that.)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1931 on: April 03, 2015, 05:14:59 pm »
Nice try, but Storm is popular. I still maintain that the major problems with the book is lack of effective advertisement, bad artwork, bad hairdo that makes her look ugly, rehashed stories from the X-Men books instead of creating a world for her unique to her book and separate from the X-Men, the lack of A-list villains or even threats that pose a decent challenge to her in battle, and the lack of big, grand electrifying stories. I was speaking for young, new readership who are just coming on board the X-Men when I thinking of putting CC back on the teambooks.

New readers' exposure to Wolverince prior to coming to the X-Men books could be the movies or one of the newer television animated series. Even if their initial introduction to the character is through the X-Men team books, Wolverine is always going to be depicted as "Wolverine" no matter which venue he is found in. The elements that MAKE/MADE him popular will always be included in his character. Wolverine is popular because of the way his character has been portrayed, same as everyone else on your list (Batman, Thanos, etc.). Storm was made popular because of the way her character was portrayed in the X-Men under CC's pen (and even in the 90s, though the writers did not touch CC's level with her) and the 90s animated series. Unfortunately, unlike Wolverine, Storm is not always "Storm" in every venue she's found in. I feel that one reason Storm's character is not portrayed as well in the movies and in the newer animated series is because she's a black female and some writers probably have a problem with her being as great as she is. Therefore, they tone her down so she doesn't overshadow the white characters. No other explanation makes any sense to me other than this one. The movies did a lot of damage to her character so that new readers coming on board who are not familiar with the CC back issues and the 90s era animated series don't know how awesome she really is. In the X-Men books right now, she's basically Lightning Lass (just flying around and using her powers uncreatively being limited to shooting lightning bolts), her character is nowhere near as interesting as it has been many times in the past, and she's being drawn ugly with that hideous hairdo.

A lot of what made Storm great and popular is missing from her character in the team books now. If Storm was "Storm" in the movies, in the current X-Men team books and the new animated series that came out this millennium just like Wolverine is "Wolverine" in all of those media outlets, the sales on her solo title could be up there near the level of where his sales were before he croaked. That said, if they fixed her up in the team books and made her her old self again, people who would ordinarily not try her solo book because they are new and don't know how awesome she is would pick up her solo title to get more of her. So, bring CC on board to write a team book with Storm on the lineup and fix up the stories and artwork in her solo title so that when new readership try her book they will be engaged by the stories and art to keep buying the book. The only reason any character is popular is because they way they are written connects well with the readership.

I grant that Storm in the X-Men is popular, but Storm alone?

Blaming the art doesn't work.  There are several books out right now with much worse art than Storm that are outselling her.  Hawkeye and Wonder Woman are two that come to mind.  (I don't even think Thor has a good artist.)  Of course, some of this is taste.  But I remember a while back, Superman was hit with some of the worse art around.  (Stories weren't any better.)  I asked why does Superman--DC's flagship character--have such sucky artwork?  The answer, because it didn't matter.  Superman will sell multiple titles, no matter how bad the art and stories are.   So no, bad art hasn't hurt Hawkeye or Wonder Woman, so that's not a good enough reason.

"Wolverine is always going to be depicted as "Wolverine" no matter which venue he is found in. The elements that MAKE/MADE him popular will always be included in his character. Wolverine is popular because of the way his character has been portrayed, same as everyone else on your list (Batman, Thanos, etc.)."  I have to laugh at this.  You have said, you really only follow Storm and don't follow other heroes.  If you did, you'd realize how insane that statment is.  Wolverine has been so inconsistently portrayed, that he should be ten different characters.  Is he an animal, a samurai, a ninja, a thug, a scoundrel, a spy, a solider, a super-hero or a wise school master? Compare how he was when he first appeared, ready to rip of Cyclop's head at the drop of a hat.  Now he's the voice of reason headmaster of a school. These characters are mutually exclusive.  And yet, despite all these changes, he remains popular.  Or let's take Thanos, he has been so inconsistently written that Starlin wrote a story to fix this.  Hulk's so inconsistent that they've actually turned it into a story element.  Batman?  Are we talking Adam West Batman or Frank Miller Batman? Those two radically different characters.  Today's Superman is far different than the one we saw 5 years ago.  And it's not even just personality.  Their powers are written across the board.  The same writer has Thor splitting open a Celestial's armor and then a few issues later has a Sabertooth like character getting the upper hand in a fight.  One writer has a normal  python hold Hulk in its unbreakable grip.  While another has his foot steps shake the entire East Coast.  Odin couldn't humble Thanos while Kaz-ar proved strong enough to break Thanos' bear hug.   Yet these characters remain popular no matter how inconsistently they are written.  Storm doesn't need consistency to be popular.

Pax does share a lot of blame here, I do agree, but some of it that the greater comic book audience isn't looking for her as a solo player.  They like her as Storm the X-men.  (And you know, there is nothing wrong with that.)

First off, you went on and on about the point I made criticizing he artwork on Storm's solo book. That does deserve part of the blame. Storm is a female character. The artwork is bad and she's sporting an ugly hairdo. When dealing with a predominately male demographic, the way the female lead looks is going to play a role in selling the title.

Secondly, while you may bring up that the stories in other solo series are sometimes bad, but still sell, there is a huge difference between those solo books and Storm's. In Storm's book, the stories haven't been bad, but they have not been great either. The problem is they read too much like stories from the X-Men team books that have been told over and over again. There hasn't really been anything new and the stories haven't been electrifying. When debuting a brand new title, you want to start out strong with something exciting that will get everybody's attention. Lets say Superman or Thor had only been members of team books and were just now getting their own solo titles, okay? If their solo books started out the same way Storm's did with the same approach to their stories taken with her book, they would not do well either. Thing is, even when their stories are bad, they still have friends/foes in their own solo books that are unique to their titles. They still have a world created for them personally separate from the team books they serve on. They can afford to have a bad run on their solo titles here and there because their books have already created a fanbase from earlier runs that got readers interested when the stories were stronger. In other words, their solo books are not going to revolve around old stories that have been told time and again from their team books with the same old faces (both friend and foe) from their respective team books and inconsequential villains showing up with no power to threaten the hero whatsoever. What happened this year in Storm's case is uniquely different from what goes on in other solo titles.

Getting back to the "bad run" idea you brought up regarding the stories told in a book, when the X-Men book debuted circa 1963, the book ended up getting cancelled because it did not connect with audiences. The book could not take the kinds of stories being told there which readers found lackluster. That said, when it was relaunched around 1975 with CC at the helm writing the book, it took off. Now, even when there is a bad run like Fraction or whomever, the book doesn't get cancelled and it keeps a lot of its readership because it was able to build an audience during its stronger points in terms of writing before hitting this bad patch. The readers are so invested in the title that they just soldier on through the rough patches believing that something better will come about soon enough remembering better times in the book's writing. The same applies to the solo titles of the other characters you brought up. They have had their heydays which captured the attention and interest of readers. So, even when a bad run of stories inevitably pop up, they soldier on through it knowing that things will turn around at some point because they have already invested in the title psychologically and have plenty of back issues of those titles to remind of why they like the book. Storm's solo book has yet to have its "golden era" of writing to where it can afford to have a run of lackluster stories. For this reason, it was/is imperative for her book to start out strong this first year.

Finally, regarding your jab about me and Wolverine, if I followed Storm all of this time, where did I follow her? That's right! I followed her in the X-Men books which means Wolverine is going to be always present as well. I have also followed her in other media where Logan is also everpresent. I even bought some of the animated series DVDs from the 90s. Logan may go through phases in his characterization, but its merely certain aspects of his character that have been long established being emphasized over the other facets of his personality according the the whims of various writers. He is still Wolverine though and the fundamental elements that made him popular with the readership are always there. I could see him being the headmaster of a mutant school. He has always taken an interest in young mutants. When Kitty Pryde and Jubilee joined the cast of the book, he took on the role of a protective big brother and/or father-like figure over them and took them under his wings. He was both mentor and protector to them. I actually think the headmaster role suits him better than it does Ororo.

All of that said, Logan hasn't really undergone any serious character changes since CC's first run on the X-Men as all of these elements were established back then...and not only back then, but early on back then. I believe I recall reading somewhere that CC wanted to kill Logan off early on because he figured that character had gone as far as it could. He was merely a crazed beserker. I think he changed his mind when someone mentioned the whole samurai route to go with Logan's character to him. Anyway, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 10:28:54 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1932 on: April 03, 2015, 08:19:37 pm »
Anyway, don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.



Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1933 on: April 07, 2015, 12:35:15 pm »
Guys,

Thing is, I still don't think we've seen what Pak can really do (of course, I could be mistaken here). We haven't seen him try and do anything big with Storm yet. We have not seen him create villains for the book or have her face some old foes of hers that have not been used frequently (Candra and Bogan come to mind. Hela also has an old grudge against Storm that we have never seen her try to settle yet). Who knows? Maybe Pak can turn out a big, electrifying Storm story, but he simply chose to wrong way to start the title out for the first year. I think he was going for trying to start out modest and safe rather than taking risks and going big and exciting. The former was a mistake as the latter would have been MUCH better. Who knows, though, right?

I hope Storm's book is still around after "Secret Wars". If so, I'd like to know who's writing it, who's drawing it (Coipel would be AWESOME!) and what kinds of stories are going to be told. Pak gets Storm's powers right. He REALLY has that down pat. This is one of the BIGGEST reasons I would be reluctant to see him go. I just wish I knew how good he was at telling big, exciting Storm stories while pitting her against uber-powerful foes. I also hope that if Pak does stay on that the readership has not already made up their minds about him and will give him another chance post-Secret Wars. I am of the opinion that if Pak has some big plans in store for Ororo's book with great villains and electrifying stories, Marvel needs to advertise the heck out of it to let readers know what's about to happen in the book to drum up more readership. 
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1934 on: April 07, 2015, 03:33:28 pm »
I still wonder if Pax has the freedom to go all out with Storm.   When he wrote his game changing Hulk series,  he had total freedom.   Changed Hulk's personality,  have him a completely new supporting crew,  married him off, and then sent him on a rampage that shattered the MU.  Then when he wrote Hercules, he had the same kind of freedom.

But with Storm,  he is limited by the multiple X-writers who may want her close to home.

I really wonder what kind of stories would he tell,  If he could go the Hulk route and leave her past behind and send her on a world spanning adventure with non -X support staff.