Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 626048 times)

Offline Kristopher

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1965 on: April 24, 2015, 07:09:09 am »
Kitty has never been front and center of an X-Men team book. I don't even think she's been in any of the video games nor did she ever beat Wonder Woman in a popularity contest, etc. Storm has all of this under her belt and more.

Just a reminder:

If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.
And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character. In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.

Offline Kristopher

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1966 on: April 24, 2015, 07:37:36 am »
Well folks, at least Storm faired better in March than stablemates Silk and Elektra, however, My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic (my daughter's favorite) is still kicking her buttocks (maybe they could partner Storm with a magical Pony). Thor only did a measly 70,000+, dropping out of the Top 10 and finishing at #11.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1967 on: April 24, 2015, 08:21:48 am »
Regardless as to which version of "Kitty" it is, she's not in the same category as Storm in terms of being a top tier character. Very few people are gonna care about who Kitty marries or how quickly she enters into marriage.

Only because Star-Lord is White, if he were a Black man, X-Fans would loose their s#%t over the marriage.

I don't buy that. Again, who Kitty dates or marries has never really been a big issue amongst fans. They don't care enough about her to really get into those kinds of details in any meaningful way. In Storm's case, who Storm should date/marry was a very hot topic amongst fans for years before she married Panther. Kitty is a fun character and all, but when you think about the major, top level X-Men, its Storm, Wolverine, and Cyclops with a nod to Jean Grey.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1968 on: April 24, 2015, 08:26:48 am »
Regardless as to which version of "Kitty" it is, she's not in the same category as Storm in terms of being a top tier character. Very few people are gonna care about who Kitty marries or how quickly she enters into marriage. "Who should Kitty marry?" never been a huge debate/discussion regarding Kitty as it has been for years on the internet for Ororo. Hardly anyone cares enough about Kitty to really think on that.  I just hate the way Storm was written in that panel. That kind of speaking and mannerism for her is way out-of-character. Ugh!

That wasn't the point.

The point was that there was a massive amount of rage over Storm marrying quick "becuz pacing" and other transparent reasons, from a ridiculously vocal group of people (who didn't later show up and support her book). But there's barely a peep from these same people over Kitty marrying Starlord. Version be damned. It's about consistency and hypocrisy.

And I really think you're being a little harsh, to crap on the character like that. I mean, Kitty has to have SOME sort of a strong fanbase, since she was given a solo book decades before Storm. When the X-men were in their prime.

Several things hurt Storm's book: poor marketing, lack of action, third rate villains, rehashed stories, bad artwork and Storm being ugly with the mohawk.  Moving forward, I didn't say anything harsh against Kitty only that she is not anywhere near as big a character as Storm is which is merely stating fact. Heck, I think even Jubilee may have had her own solo title at one point. Getting a solo doesn't necessarily reflect on the popularity of a character. Kitty has never been front and center of an X-Men team book. I don't even think she's been in any of the video games nor did she ever beat Wonder Woman in a popularity contest, etc. Storm has all of this under her belt and more. Also, hardly anyone cares enough about Kitty to have big online debates concerning "who she should date/marry" whereas this was a huge thing with Storm for years.

Storm's solo book could have been much more dynamic. Trying to match up Kitty against Ororo in popularity is silly and desparate. Its not even a debate worth engaging in.

Storm's solo book could have been much more dynamic, if they cut out Ororo altogether. Not even Pak, who effectively separated War Machine from his sidekick/counterpart role (a near impossible feat in the world of comicbooks) could make Storm a compelling character. The only thing you are right on is the atrocious artwork. But then again, there have been many good books with shotty art that didn't have low sales. The Storm book was bad because it was Storm. Even when they added action and "featz", the numbers didn't stop hemorrhaging severely, to denote that it was what people wanted all along, when they finally got it.

And as for the Kitty marriage, you still missed the point I was making. Again. Which is the absence of the X-fans who were outraged over a rushed marriage, on the grounds of pacing. Not even Kitty's fans, who do exist, when looking at the huge internet rage over her being shot into space on that bullet, were complaining. And you just crapped on Kitty AGAIN, by saying that "hardly anyone cares about Kitty". Your lack of self-awareness is once again, just staggering. Why are Storm fans so threatened over other characters and their fanbases, and constantly throwing shade?

Rachael Summers
Cyclops
Jean Grey
Lady Thor
Kitty

It's ridiculous.

No Storm fan is threatened by Rachel, LOL! Its Rachel fans who are threatened by Storm. Even Yost recently stated in an interview that Rachel is really irrelevant, or something to that effect.

There has been no conflict either between Kitty's fanbase and Ororo's.  There is a rivalry, though, between the Ororo/Scott fanbases and the Ororo/Jean fanbases and its mostly because Jean fans are threatened by Storm's enormous power levels (Storm eclipses Jean in power big time unless Jean has the Phoenix Force and Jean fans HATE that) and the Scott fans want him to be recognized as a better leader than Ororo.

Storm has always been a compelling character. That is why she was so popular. Again, I've already stated ad naseum what hurt her book. I'm not going to state it all over again. 
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1969 on: April 24, 2015, 08:30:52 am »
Well folks, at least Storm faired better in March than stablemates Silk and Elektra, however, My Little Pony Friendship Is Magic (my daughter's favorite) is still kicking her buttocks (maybe they could partner Storm with a magical Pony). Thor only did a measly 70,000+, dropping out of the Top 10 and finishing at #11.



Just goes to show that the stories told in Storm's book combined with poor marketing and bad artwork simply didn't go over well with readers. This is especially the case when the sales for the book started at 47,000+ (this could have been much higher with better advertisement).  Pak is a good writer, but chose the wrong kinds of stories and foes to start out with. On the last two pages of this thread, I posted on what could have been for Storm's book had he chosen to focus on her maternal ancestral lineage and also mentioned possibilities with her paternal family. Those ideas would have sold MUCH better than rehashed stories featuring Callisto/Forge/Yukio and third rate villains who had no power to challenge Storm with. Pitting Storm against the foes she has fought so far in her book is every bit as exciting as pitting Dr. Strange against people like Venom and Green Goblin.  There is no drama in that. Many readers dropped the book after the Callisto/Forge/Yukio sequence. Her book needs to feel unique from the X-Men books in which she serves membership. She needs different friends and foes for her solo book than she has in X-Men team books. Friends and foes should be created specifically for her book that have a lot of appeal and the foes need big exciting powers that can give her a hard fight. Her foes don't need to be weather-controllers like her either as that is boring. Not only is she immune to most weather-based attacks (when written at her best), but its just not exciting at all. If only I could write for Marvel... :)
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 08:44:03 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Kristopher

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1970 on: April 24, 2015, 10:27:22 am »
She's been a member of one of the most popular super teams in comic book history since 1975. How much marketing do you think a 40 year old character needs? More than a NEW Ms. Marvel or Silk or a female Thor? Like Kip stated,she's a team character not popular enough to carry a solo act. Wolverine is/was the Michael Jackson of the team, Storm is more like Tito or Jackie.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1971 on: April 24, 2015, 10:52:42 am »
She's been a member of one of the most popular super teams in comic book history since 1975. How much marketing do you think a 40 year old character needs? More than a NEW Ms. Marvel or Silk or a female Thor? Like Kip stated,she's a team character not popular enough to carry a solo act. Wolverine is/was the Michael Jackson of the team, Storm is more like Tito or Jackie.

People needed to be made aware that her book was around. A lot of her fans left the comicbook hobby, but would come back if they knew about this. I was one of the fans who left and so did plenty of other fans of hers I know/knew on my personal IM buddy lists (I haven't chatted with them in ages, though). Thorette got publicity on "The View" and the new Ms. Marvel's solo title also got recognition in the news to help promote it. Fact of the matter is you can't credibly say Storm can't carry her on title given the stories that were told in the book this year and the bad artwork.

While I was entertained by Pak's stories this year, I am a die-hard Storm fan who will support a solo book for the character no matter what. If the stories are bad, I would still support the title anyway hoping that at some point things will turn around and the stories will get more inspired. Most fans who would try the book out are not gonna be as loyal as I am, therefore, it is imperative that the book start out with a bang its first year. Pak should have told big, electrifying stories introducing exciting new villains for Storm that would captivate readers as well as interesting new friends for her to interact with. He could have also mixed in other popular villains like Hela (who has a grudge against Ororo that she has never tried to settle), Blackheart (who would try and corrupt and steal Storm's soul given the kind of mission Ororo took upon herself), and personal enemies of Storm from the X-Men like Candra and Bogan who have not been greatly underused. She could have also interacted with friends outside of her X-pals in this book as well to pull in additional readership.

Also, Storm is much more than Tito to Logan's Michael Jackson. Each character can run their own show separate from the other. As a matter of fact, for many years, it was Logan's Tito to Storm's Michael Jackson in the X-Men books. I don't know why Storm didn't get a solo title long ago. Recently, she's been watered down and new readers coming in don't know how awesome she really is while her fans have been waiting for a long time now for Storm to be awesome again. Marvel needs to make that a reality. For her first year, she needed to take on some big-named foes with scary powers, both old and newly created ones for her book, kicked big butt and taken names. Say what you will, but this did not happen this year and that is a large part of the problem, though not the only mistake Marvel made with this project.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 11:10:01 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Blanks

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1972 on: April 24, 2015, 10:55:52 am »
She's been a member of one of the most popular super teams in comic book history since 1975. How much marketing do you think a 40 year old character needs? More than a NEW Ms. Marvel or Silk or a female Thor? Like Kip stated,she's a team character not popular enough to carry a solo act. Wolverine is/was the Michael Jackson of the team, Storm is more like Tito or Jackie.

No, more like Shamone Jackson.  Eeeeeehhhhee!

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1973 on: April 24, 2015, 11:48:26 am »
Just goes to show that the stories told in Storm's book combined with poor marketing and...


I believe we all know who should take the hit for that one.  ;D

Offline JRCarter

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1974 on: April 24, 2015, 12:01:52 pm »
She's been a member of one of the most popular super teams in comic book history since 1975. How much marketing do you think a 40 year old character needs? More than a NEW Ms. Marvel or Silk or a female Thor? Like Kip stated,she's a team character not popular enough to carry a solo act. Wolverine is/was the Michael Jackson of the team, Storm is more like Tito or Jackie.

I would have thought more like Latoya.

Offline Blanks

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1975 on: April 24, 2015, 12:18:25 pm »
Latoya is actually useful.

Offline Booshman

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1976 on: April 24, 2015, 02:06:55 pm »

No Storm fan is threatened by Rachel, LOL! Its Rachel fans who are threatened by Storm. Even Yost recently stated in an interview that Rachel is really irrelevant, or something to that effect.

There has been no conflict either between Kitty's fanbase and Ororo's.  There is a rivalry, though, between the Ororo/Scott fanbases and the Ororo/Jean fanbases and its mostly because Jean fans are threatened by Storm's enormous power levels (Storm eclipses Jean in power big time unless Jean has the Phoenix Force and Jean fans HATE that) and the Scott fans want him to be recognized as a better leader than Ororo.

Storm has always been a compelling character. That is why she was so popular. Again, I've already stated ad naseum what hurt her book. I'm not going to state it all over again.

Yeah...all these character's fans are threatened by Storm, but yet it's Storm fans 9 times out of10, who start the "vs. Storm" discussions against various characters.

You can make excuses for why Storm's book failed, like Marvel knew it would for decades, but we all know the truth. Even when they added the very things in her issues that you said would save the book, and even when they had Ibanez as the artist, the sales still plummeted. Why? Because Storm is and will always be a piecemeal character. Jump in, boss someone around, do some high powered weather feat, and then jump back out. No interesting history, practically no/very limited connections to the rest of the MU (which is why they worked so hard to GIVE her some in her book), and no real potential besides some vague magical connection.

The fact that by Pak's own admission, Storm was ONLY given a book because of Kamala Kahn, says it all.

Also, Storm is much more than Tito to Logan's Michael Jackson.

Storm is more like Bubbles. The feel good mascot of a group who is propped up to fill a specific role. Who gives people a warm feeling when seen, but isn't really missed when gone.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 02:11:46 pm by Booshman »

Offline Blanks

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1977 on: April 24, 2015, 02:24:16 pm »
Damn, that was cold. Now why you have to go and insult Bubbles like that? Comparing that poor chimp to the likes of Storm? That ish ain't right....

Offline Open palm

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1978 on: April 24, 2015, 03:37:35 pm »

No Storm fan is threatened by Rachel, LOL! Its Rachel fans who are threatened by Storm. Even Yost recently stated in an interview that Rachel is really irrelevant, or something to that effect.

There has been no conflict either between Kitty's fanbase and Ororo's.  There is a rivalry, though, between the Ororo/Scott fanbases and the Ororo/Jean fanbases and its mostly because Jean fans are threatened by Storm's enormous power levels (Storm eclipses Jean in power big time unless Jean has the Phoenix Force and Jean fans HATE that) and the Scott fans want him to be recognized as a better leader than Ororo.

Storm has always been a compelling character. That is why she was so popular. Again, I've already stated ad naseum what hurt her book. I'm not going to state it all over again.

Yeah...all these character's fans are threatened by Storm, but yet it's Storm fans 9 times out of10, who start the "vs. Storm" discussions against various characters.

You can make excuses for why Storm's book failed, like Marvel knew it would for decades, but we all know the truth. Even when they added the very things in her issues that you said would save the book, and even when they had Ibanez as the artist, the sales still plummeted. Why? Because Storm is and will always be a piecemeal character. Jump in, boss someone around, do some high powered weather feat, and then jump back out. No interesting history, practically no/very limited connections to the rest of the MU (which is why they worked so hard to GIVE her some in her book), and no real potential besides some vague magical connection.

The fact that by Pak's own admission, Storm was ONLY given a book because of Kamala Kahn, says it all.


Kamala Khan is a fresh face and a fun character. When Storm fans believed she should be mentoring her it does imply some desperation there.
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Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1979 on: April 26, 2015, 05:29:04 am »
Kenji? Seriously? The shameless Akira ripoff is the main villain of Storm's book?

He is the first stop on X-villains when you're to lazy or don't care enough to dig deeper in the villain list

Sugarman is more credibal then Kenji

I had go look up Kenji, Sugar man and Calandra to have any idea what you guys were talking about.

Sugar man looks like a Cavity Creep from those old Crest Commercials when I was a kid. I have no idea what that thing is supposed to be.

The rest of them ( and you can put Bogan in there too if anybody cares) are the kind of C list X-baddy that kind of has to be in solo Storm rogues gallery by definition.

If Storm can beat up credible well liked Baddys like Shadow King and Seline singlehandedly, what chance do they have against the Xmen as a group? You kind of ruin them as team threats by having them lose to any solo member.

But with the Kenjis, Bogans and Calandra it doesn't matter. They were one off Xfoes at best.