Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 529703 times)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #690 on: July 26, 2014, 11:28:05 am »
Still, Rutog deserves a respectful reading and from what I've seen, he has attempted to be respectful when responding to rebuts to his debate points.



Not when this on-line character was making outrageous claims about my father taking his job as a Storm mascot!  ;)

What?

When I came back to this board back in May after leaving comics for 2-3 years, I was excited about the upcoming Storm solo. He made a nasty comment to me telling me I should cross dress as Storm and go stand out on some street corner and talk about the book. I did not make any personal attacks upon him or anything to merit that. So, I retorted that I didn't want to take his father's job or something like that. He deserved it, but looking back, I didn't have to sink to his level. Its a minor thing to me that I don't even think about. Going to get to your points to me in a sec.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 11:32:59 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #691 on: July 26, 2014, 11:32:27 am »

Couple of things I'd like to point out:

I slob on Greg Pak's knob like an ice cream cone whilst rocking my Storm cosplay attire.



Yup!

Creep actually making a Statement of fact usually voiced by readers not caught up on that X-crement Koolaid



Storm
reacting like the typical X-crement cult member sipping the aforementioned Koolaid.





That's why the fact that Creep has more or less been singled out as a disliked character by most of the other idiots like yourself posting over in CBR comes a no suprise to me.

Much like Storm, most of you tend to have no problem lashing out or generally trash talking when the truth proves inconvenient.

But since I don't do things by half or rely on misdirections, obsfucations or blatant lies like yourself, here we go....

Quote from: Kieran_Frost;343447
a) even some die hard T'Challa fans are voicing a lack of satisfaction with his work (and with T'Challa being central... man, that tells you something)
b) he is a very intelligent writer, who creates complex intelligent plots... nearly VOID of character.  He writers smart and emotionlessly stunted well (he'd write a wicked Emma); but the X-verse is built on character (and characterisation) and that is not his strong suit.  Never has been.  One of the main jokes you see about Avengers is 90% of the characters could be swapped out and in... the story would remain identical (which shows how much character matters to anything he does)
c) Hickman wanted to use Storm (the X-verse said no) and have T'Challa secretly sleeping with her behind the scenes = so to Wakanda they are broken up, but they would still be together.  Hickman didn't want to use Storm IN the Illuminati, but he wanted to use her as a glorified booty call.
d) the X-verse is THE LGBT strong hold... with Hickman running things... well his track record is appauling with LGBT characters

So NO, I don't desperately pine away waiting for the day Hickman gets to write her or the X-verse.  I'd be curious to see ONE guest arc (or even have him do a science team comic) and I'd happily by a T'Challa solo series or an Emma Frost/T'Challa duet book (man, that would be awesome), but in charge of the X-verse = GOD, NO!


Quote from: rutog98;343545
Can you please post a link that gives the details about Hickman wanting to use Storm as a booty call? Send it ASAP, if you can. I'm going to use this in a debate I am having with some internet pals. Where did you find this information?


Quote from: Kieran_Frost;346655
Yeah... I was so excited originally when I heard he was taking over New Avengers, making T'Challa and Namor major players... disappointing.  Plus he talked in several interviews about how diversity matters, and syaing how half the team will be women and minorities.  Yet 2 years later his "LGBT character" (*wink*) has yet to be outed.  Oh well.


Can't wait to see Guggenheim take a shot at it (I will miss Brian Wood), SO HAPPY that Deathbrid will be back.  I really want the comic to continue, it's such a great team.


So sorry I don't have a link; I was first told about in the BP thread (it was about Hickman and New Avengers after all).  Check there.  :)


Oh, I never meant to imply Hickman specifically used the term "booty call" in his comment (he didn't to my knowledge); that was my more flamboyant description... but ultimately... that is what he saw Storm as (call it what you will, that is what it was).  He didn't want to use her on the Illuminati (in place of Beast, let's be honest, Storm makes far more sense), he didn't want it to be public or known (so not referenced in the X-comics), he wanted to use Storm as a secret "intimate" sex partner for T'Challa.  That (to me) doesn't imply respect/a Storm I wanted to see.  She is NO ONE'S booty call, nor is she in a story simply to sleep with.

It's a shame, Storm would have been great on the Illuminati (it would have been nice to see Hickman try and rise up a female in Marvel to major "world moving" heights), Goddess knows she's more qualified that the walking blue furball, and it would have been a perfect situation to (if they wanted) start laying some real ground-work to one day bring them back together as a stable, couple.  Not rushed but slowly built.  Instead Hickman just saw her as a "booty call".  So I pass.


The fact that you're stupid enough to seek truth from one of the most dishonest and disingenuous posters on CBR, says more about your lack of character and general duplicity than anything else.

The poster in question never read a single issue of Reginald Hudlin's Black panther but was fond of slagging off the series just off of the strength of misinformation and hearsay in much the same manner as you yourself do within thi forum and the fact that this poster purposefully misrepresented Hickman's desire to write Ororo within the New Avengers by falsely implying that Hickman wanted her to be "T'Challa's booty call" despite evidence to the contrary makes you look all the more pathetic and stupid to boot.



First? Like I said in my summarization of STORM#1...I'm an instant fan of CREEP, this whole scene is proof that Pak can write his a$$ off, he has a very solid grip on this whole mutant thing from the pro and con perspective, and the art in this book isn't given its props. It's solid art, friend.

Second? Storm saved the universe multiple times while this kid CREEP was in diapers. Yeah, Creep had a helluva point. But SELLOUT?

TPG don't let sellouts be the Queen of Wakanda, yo. TChalla don't marry sellouts, yo. Real talk.

Storm had every right to remind that little girl who the Alpha Female is. And if saving the universe, the galaxy, the world including that girl, housing the essence of Eternity, and allat other stuff that Storm did makes her a sellout?

Sign me up.


However, the team of The Illuminati is comprised most heavily of supergenius tech type big brain folks. I think that Storm is quite intelligent but I don't think she's the mighty brain type. I do indeed want to see not just AN woman but SEVERAL WOMEN in The illuminati, but off top Moondragon Black Swan Captain Universe The Celestial Madonna and even Satanna...if she wasn't dead and was written to her actual power...would be a better fit, given the personality types that dominate The Illuminati.

I truly thing Storm could and would be a valuable addition to The Illuminati. I just think the above listed ladies would probably be a BETTER fit.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 11:48:35 am by supreme illuminati »
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #692 on: July 26, 2014, 11:33:51 am »
Still, Rutog deserves a respectful reading and from what I've seen, he has attempted to be respectful when responding to rebuts to his debate points.



Not when this on-line character was making outrageous claims about my father taking his job as a Storm mascot!  ;)

What?

When I came back to this board back in May after leaving comics for 2-3 years, I was excited about the upcoming Storm solo. He made a nasty comment to me telling me I should cross dress as Storm and go stand out on some street corner and talk about the book. So, I retorted that I didn't want to take his father's job or something like that. He deserved it, but looking back, I didn't have to sink to his level. Going to get to your points to me in a sec.


ohhhhh I see. Thanx for the expo.

Both of you guys...please stop with the personal attacks. We're geeks. We like comics. Okay. Let's keep the stuff comic centered, okay?
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Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #693 on: July 26, 2014, 12:06:37 pm »
Rutog is imo reasonable well balanced and sensible, and he wrote a very good post above. His extreme passion for STORM is very obvious, and while it sometimes leads him to opinions occupying the outer fringes for those of us who o not follow Storm with the intensity and dare I say borderline fanaticism that he does...what he always shows is a deep knowledge of and a solid grasp of the material he posts.

There is always something compelling about his posts. Whether or not we agree with him.

And he's right about Pak. He's right that Storm would take Logan's death very hard and it will have a heavy impact upon her. It SHOULD do so.  Given the DECADES they spent together, their romantic relationship...how could it not?

lf T'Challa died? She'd be prostrate, too.

I expect her to seek vengeance on the murderers of Logan...or a at least I expect her to do so if she's allowed by the X-Office to play a role in any kind of "get back" for Logan's death. I would expect the same...if Pak was writing her, and if he wasn't handcuffed by the X-Office and/or Editorial...if TChalla died or was severely injured.

This woman stood off Death itself for TChalla. Under RH's pen. Fighting Death's minions to a standstill is nearly on par with housing the essence of ETERNITY. Fighting a running battle with The Super Zombies while everyone else was getting eaten by them? Yeah, let's give her feats under RH's pen their props. The Super Skrull arc was basically The Storm Show. She beat down everyone, plus she rescued TChalla. TWICE.

Bringin that up off of the top of my head just to make it clear that Storm wasn't second fiddle to anyone under RH's pen.

Other than the points listed above, and the fact that I am one of the lone wolves on this forum that openly loves EJD's miniseries and finds it superior to the original CC script BY LIGHTYEARS [ if I see supertech supergenius TChalla in a old skool loincloth again, dealing with pathetic tech group flunkies and some Bull guy who wouldn't even rate a second look from the Dora Milaje, I'm assassinating the writer ] and other than having my doubts about Hickman reducing Storm to a "booty call" and even more dubious am I about Hickman remotely trying to spark back up the marriage between TChalla and Storm--more likely a passionate but troubled connection highlighting the character strengths and quirks of each character, given his long game and character focused style--I pretty much agree with what Rutog wrote above.

Once again, Brother, your ability to see all sides of an issue and the extraordinary patience which allows you to do so is illuminated in your observation.

Rutog is what you say. Our Brothers on the other hand, have an opinion which they've formulated through time and experience with respect to Rutog at variance with your own. Salustrade, Seven, Genki Sudo, Kimoyo, Booshman have gone toe-to-toe with the denizens of that other place (CBR). The x-fanatics there would test the limits of even your considerable patience, Supreme.

As you know, that entire forum was purged to rid itself of individuals who allowed their passions to boil over to the point where some might have attempted a near-criminal act on the object of their ire. Salustrade, Seven and the others have confronted and are confronting mindsets and opinions not unlike in many respects to those purged CBR members every other day, if not daily. A steady diet of that can be irritating. They are bizarre, Supreme. I know. I've been there. I can see how Booshman - who has mentioned more than once Rutog's CBR activities - might be sort of abrupt with Rutog in their discourse.  Jenn has seen the worst of internet forums where fanatics of an intolerable and racist bent have given vent to their idiocy and she has evinced little patience with Rutog. Princessa of all people has referred to Rutog as a troll. And Kip...even Kip struck me as perhaps becoming mildly irritated (?) by some of Rutog's sometimes over-the-top descriptions of Storm's power levels.

I give it up to Rutog. He's standing his ground. He was wrong about Storm being written as second fiddle to Shuri. The way the story was written, if not for Storm's mild rebuke of Ramonda and her confidence in Shuri at a time when Ororo showed her TRUE STRENGTH OF CHARACTER functioning as Queen of Wakanda while her husband fought for his life, Shuri would not be the Black Panther today. Shuri is the Black Panther BECAUSE OF STORM. Wolverine gets kudos for transforming a "little punkin" into a Shadowcat. Storm's contribution to Wakanda and to the lineage of the Black Panther is ignored. Many Storm fans are afflicted with this tunnel vision. Rutog is one such.

Still, Rutog deserves a respectful reading and from what I've seen, he has attempted to be respectful when responding to rebuts to his debate points.

Couple of things I'd like to point out:

1) Storm was definitely written down as second fiddle to Shuri. When Doom attacked Panther and nearly killed him, Shuri was the one who went out looking for answers, not Storm. This was TOTALLY out-of-character for Ororo. Storm is a very proactive leader. No power on Earth would have stopped Storm from hunting down T'challa's attacker, yet Shuri got the shine here. During "Mutant Massacre", when Mr. Sinister sent his Marauders out to decimate the Morlocks, Storm sent Wolverine out to KILL, that's right, KILL the Marauders. She told him that she needed only one of them brought back to her alive. When she thought Magneto had killed Shadowcat in a story, Storm was prepared to take Magneto on solo in a fight to the death and take his life. When Marrow had a bomb attached to her heart that was going to explode and kill thousands of citizens, people Storm didn't even know, she engaged Marrow in a knife fight and killed her by cutting out her heart. Of course, it was revealed much later that Marrow actually has two hearts to bring her back to life. Recently, in Amazing X-Men (July's issue), she was concerned for Logan when he went up to Canada on his own and had Rachel Grey use Cerebro to scan for his location. She forbade Logan to leave the mansion because he is vulnerable without his healing factor. When Rachel was having difficulty locating him, Storm showed little patience and threatened to replace Rachel with her teenaged mother, Jean Grey. Now, Storm was not married to any of these people, but she chose to marry Panther, which means she loves him. So, yes, Storm was written as second fiddle to Shuri because it was Shuri who took on this role after the assault on T'challa while Ororo was portrayed as this wimpy, weeping wife so distraught over her husband's assault that she was just too emotionally fragile to do anything. Storm is MUCH tougher than that. Her strength of character and fierceness was written down to prop up Shuri. Maberry obviously doesn't know Storm's character or simply didn't care as all he wanted to do was give Shuri the limelight. Storm should have had Logan sniffing around the wreckage for clues, she should have Emma Frost on Cerebro scanning for clues as to Panther's attacker. Heck, she probably would have had Emma use Cerebro to sneak into Panther's mind clear over from America while Panther was in Africa behind his back to ascertain the identity of his attacker. She would have been out there interrogating people and even threatening them for information. Yes, I said threaten. The first time she and Candra crossed swords, Candra had invaded Achmed el-Gibar's home (Ororo's thief mentor back from her childhood days on the streets of Cairo) and convinced one of his street urchins to come with her. Candra's plans were to exploit his latent mutant abilities for herself. Achmed asked Ororo to save the boy from her corruption. In an attempt to locate Candra, she interrogated people and used intimidation to extract information from people as she worked her way through the criminal underground of the city.


Friend Rutog. Your recollection regarding the events in the X-Verse is, as always, uncannily on target.

However, your recollection of the events regarding RH BP and Storm's response is way off. I have the book in front of me.

Ororo DID NOT get all weepy and stuff. She saved...saved...TChalla TWICE in that arc alone. And that was AFTER the arc called LITTLE GREEN MEN, which was essentially The Storm Show. Ororo was the only person in the entire BP mythos who stood a chance of finding TChalla's soul solo, was brave enough to even think of doing so, had the spiritual reserves to actually make the trip, and then on top of all that had the combination of unending love, unending will power, and staggering might to actually venture to the realm of Death itself and free TChalla's soul. She went to the realm of Death, found TChalla battling Death's minions, and joined him in that battle. Because of her presence, the battle shifted. TChalla was fighting a truly gallant but LOSING battle until Ororo arrived. Together, they battled Death's minions to a standstill.

A. Stand. Still. In Death's own home dimension. Marinate on that. That is...unbelievably difficult.

That's more severely difficult than stopping old skool Unstoppable Juggernaut once he had a head of steam going during his charge. That's more difficult than beating Ultron-7 in h2h combat. That's more difficult than anything that either has done before...even more difficult than sealing the M'Krann Crystal. Because...THIS IS FIGHTING DEATH ITSELF IN DEATH'S VERY HOME.

In addition, Storm specifically selected Shuri to pursue The Rites of the Panther during that run...over the concerns raised by The Queen Mother. sinjection is correct. Without Storm? There is no Shuri the Black Panther. Storm simply was NOT written as 2nd to Shuri under RH's pen. You can make a excellent case for that being done under Maberry's pen, but even then recall...since Shuri was the new Panther, and both TChalla and Storm are well known commodities in comparison to her, Shuri SHOULD BE getting LOTS of shine because we need to be convinced as readers to care for Shuri. That was the plan once the idea of replacing TChalla came about.

And let's give RH more permanent props. He's the first EVER to have a FEMALE BLACK PANTHER. Truly "THE DEADLIEST OF THE SPECIES". He also made it possible for TWO PANTHERS to exist at once. The possibilites from that alone are STAGGERING if you're a good writer.

Why was Shuri tasked with becoming The Panther asap? Because Wakanda must always have at least ONE Panther up and ready to rock, ready to defend Wakanda at all times. Shuri...and ONLY SHURI...had the training and the best chance to take on Morlun, the guy that eats totems. He was hunting for TChalla, as TChalla was THEE ONLY BLACK PANTHER at that time. Shuri was the only person who had a chance of becoming A Black Panther while Storm was busy slapping Death around in Death's own house.

Once we remember the above, the proper context regarding the amazing story that RH wrote and Ledkilla just KILLLED IT on is now back in place.



Had this been an "in-character" Storm when Maberry took over? Emma would have found out from Panther's mind not only the identity of the attacker, Doom, but also about the nannite threat not only in her bloodstream, but in the bloodstream of every Wakandan citizen from Panther's mind. T'challa avoided telling Storm or anybody else about Doom since Doom would have immediately known that he told somebody through those same nannites. Emma, would have also gleaned this from Panther's mind as she probed his thoughts and memories and alerted Storm to this threat telepathically where Doom would be unable to detect Storm's knowledge of it. Emma would have likely told Ororo aloud (for Doom's sake) that she was unable to get anything out of Panther's head while telepathically telling Ororo EVERYTHING. Storm would have then mentally instructed Emma to telepathically instruct Forge or Beast come up with an antidote for the nannite infection. She would have then somehow come up with a way to instantly disperse this antidote to the entire population simultaneously and it would be a toss up as to whether or not Storm would charge over to Latveria on her own to rain down the fury of the elements upon Doom's head or if she would have restrained herself for a more concerted attack against Doom working with Shuri, T'challa and the Wakandan military.

What I am about to say is pure speculation on my part. But...I absolutely don't think that Doom was ill prepared for telepathic or psionic intervention/aid. He is a supergenius of the highest order, who knew full well the great difficulties he'd be taking on by assaulting TChalla and Wakanda as...revealed in the very pages of Doomwar itself...TChalla has REPEATEDLY defeated Doom prior to the initiation of DOOMWAR. In fact, TChalla...in a discussion with Reed during DOOMWAR...opined that Reed and TChalla taught Doom how to defeat them via the many painful defeats that each have inflicted upon Doom over the previous decades. Furthermore, in DARK REIGN, Doom specifically repelled Emma's attempts to read his mind. "No man or God may know the mind of Doom!" BMB wrote Doom saying such a thing.

Doom knows that Storm=help from the X-Men. Help from the X-Men=help from Emma. He already defeated Emma's attempts to probe his mind. He would have programmed his nannites to have a horrible nasty surprise for telepaths. A simultaneous psi shock for the telepath plus detonation of the bomb killing ALL NANNITE HOSTS is exactly the kind of thing that Doom would do, and what I guessed [ drawing from and running with the in story revelations that TChalla made to the X-Men regarding the very bombs that were programmed into the nannites to prevent them from being removed from the infected hosts ] that Doom had rocked and locked should the X-men telepathically intervene.


1) I did not take a swing at Hudlin for the Shuri thing. I know what Storm did at the end of Hudlin's run and how she saved T'challa. He TOTALLY captured the ferocious determination of Storm in those issues as well as captured the truth depth of her love for T'challa. The beef I have is with what happened AFTERWARDS during Maberry's run. Thanks for bringing up the point about how Wakanda must always have a reigning, active Black Panther. That is significant, however, I still remain unmoved in my position that Storm should have been out there ruthlessly trying to ascertain the identity of Panther's attacker. I mean, if she can show so much passion for Kitty's (supposed) death, the Morlocks, Wolverine and a bunch of mutant-hating New York City citizens she doesn't even know, how we can expect her doing any less for her husband, the human being she loves most in the world, than she did for those people in trying to unearth the identity of her husband's assailant and to exact vengeance upon them? Do you recall in "Worlds Apart" where Ororo blasted Scott out of the sky half a world way while she was in Africa and he was in the US and inner monologue she had with herself at the end of issue 2 when Shadow King came after her himself while inhabiting Black Panther? "While I may risk killing Scott, I would rather kill myself than hurt my husband." Nobody should lay a finger on T'challa and not have her out there looking for you personally. I mean talking about the old phrase, "you have sown the wind, now shall you reap the whirlwind," anyone who touches T'challa should have to reap the whirlwind.

You make some compelling arguments about how Shuri needed to shine to convince readers that she was legit. Still, its not a good enough reason to write Storm out of the action like Maberry did. She should have been out there like Shuri trying to figure this out, but  from a different angle. Both characters should have shined in this case. So, I have made an amendment to my previous position where I stated Ororo/Panther, but when panther was out of commission, 100% Ororo.  I now see that Shuri should have played a major role as Panther in the absence of T'challa.   It would be in keeping with Storm's character and showing her the respect she deserves while also showcasing Shuri and minting her as the legit Panther. From a business standpoint, this would have also been better for sales. Many of the readers who had left the book earlier came back when the change of writers took place. Hence, the sales spiked on Maberry's first book, IIRC. The draw to the title were Storm and the Black Panther. Those are the characters with fanbases, not Shuri. This is why soon after, the sales on the book dropped once more.

The points you made concerning Doom in response to the scenerio I created with a plausible course of action Storm may take is a very good one. I'll have to concede that Doom would have prepared for that eventuality. Maybe he could have used magic to counter any telepathic aid Storm may seek. I have seen Selene, the Black Queen of the Inner Circle, use her mystical abilities to prevent Rachel from using her telepathic powers. This occurred during the Kulan Gath arc circa Uncanny 191, so its likely that Doom could have used his magic in way that would be a slight variation to this to block Emma. That said, this still should not have stopped Storm from trying something. Good points!

I'll get back to your other post addressing my other points in a bit...
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 12:48:44 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #694 on: July 26, 2014, 01:33:52 pm »

1) I did not take a swing at Hudlin for the Shuri thing. I know what Storm did at the end of Hudlin's run and how she saved T'challa. He TOTALLY captured the ferocious determination of Storm in those issues as well as captured the truth depth of her love for T'challa. The beef I have is with what happened AFTERWARDS during Maberry's run. Thanks for bringing up the point about how Wakanda must always have a reigning, active Black Panther. That is significant, however, I still remain unmoved in my position that Storm should have been out there ruthlessly trying to ascertain the identity of Panther's attacker. I mean, if she can show so much passion for Kitty's (supposed) death, the Morlocks, Wolverine and a bunch of mutant-hating New York City citizens she doesn't even know, how we can expect her doing any less for her husband, the human being she loves most in the world, than she did for those people in trying to unearth the identity of her husband's assailant and to exact vengeance upon them? Do you recall in "Worlds Apart" where Ororo blasted Scott out of the sky half a world way while she was in Africa and he was in the US and inner monologue she had with herself at the end of issue 2 when Shadow King came after her himself while inhabiting Black Panther? "While I may risk killing Scott, I would rather kill myself than hurt my husband." Nobody should lay a finger on T'challa and not have her out there looking for you personally. I mean talking about the old phrase, "you have sown the wind, now shall you reap the whirlwind," anyone who touches T'challa should have to reap the whirlwind.

You make some compelling arguments about how Shuri needed to shine to convince readers that she was legit. Still, its not a good enough reason to write Storm out of the action like Maberry did. She should have been out there like Shuri trying to figure this out, but  from a different angle. Both characters should have shined in this case. It would be in keeping with Storm's character and showing her the respect she deserves while also showcasing Shuri and minting her as the legit Panther. From a business standpoint, this would have also been better for sales. Many of the readers who had left the book earlier came back when the change of writers took place. Hence, the sales spiked on Maberry's first book, IIRC. The draw to the title were Storm and the Black Panther. Those are the characters with fanbases, not Shuri. This is why soon after, the sales on the book dropped once more.

I definitely agree with part of what you're saying here. Ororo SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ACTIVE IN THE SEARCH FOR TCHALLA'S ATTACKER. I completely agree. But that search would have failed, because she was infected with nanites.

How do you defeat the nanites in a believable way that gives all involved their credit and due? The villains, heroes, and supporting characters?

Here is where they would have needed help that Doom couldn't trump.

Right away, I would have pulled out a set of characters who RH used previously in the series: Blade, Monica Rambeau, and most especially Brother...Doctor?...Voodoo. Doctor Voodoo has the magic power and mystic senses to trump Doom's nanites. This would give Brother Voodoo a much needed chance to get a big W against Doom in a significant way, that would erase the "L" he took via beatdown from Doom in Voodoo's own series. Also, DOOM...already assessing Brother Voodo and deeming him a threat that he can overcome...would probably have someone like Morgan Le Fey dealing with the magic side of things, the better to free him to focus on TChalla and Reed.

With Maberry's serious facility with all things supernatural in his best selling books, writing Brother Voodoo in concert with the BP book shoulda been a no-brainer and a orgasm at the same time.

Rambeau? FTL speed and electromagnetic range of powers. That's how you trace an otherwsie untraceable tech energy source faster than it can fry you and alert somebody like Doom.

BLADE? That's how you have a warrior equipped with magic and tech who can help to lead your magic tech Midnight Angels against Doom's Mystic Vibranium Doombots.Plus? With a timely assist from War Machine...Thanks Maberry for including 3 Black characters on panel in your book, the first time since RH made history by having 4 Black characters on-panel working together so let's give Maberry his props...and help from two more characters that will spike sales and be believable here and that would be ELEKTRA [ ninja magic, unparalleled assassin ] and Zawaviri working with THE CREW to hunt down The Broker? You can have Storm and The X-Men attacking Doom on one front while TChalla and Shuri attack on another.

Plus? Unleashing Storm with serious attitude=SALES SPIKE.

Plus...we get serious h2h throwdowns. Remember that girl that Shuri fought during Maberry's very good POWER arc? The Broker brings her back with a major Mystic Vibranium tech upgrade for Round 2.

DOOM is a supergenius strategist. He'd employ teams of supervillains, too, as he knows that TChalla would deploy multiple teams against him. Most of the teams TChalla would employ would find themselves overrun by or at least stalemated by Mystic Vibranium Doombots. But there would be special teams designed to take the fight directly to Wakanda and the home bases of all DOOM's enemies.

ELEKTRA, The White Wolf and THE CREW--after wrangling with The Broker--get to bang it out with Doombots, Taskmaster, Boomerang, Doomlok [ Doom's Mystic Vibranium evil version of Deathlok ] ...and a few other name bad guys like a revamped Omega Red sent to assassinate The White Wolf and Ramonda, as these two are the remaining characters most likely to cause DOOM further problems, in the absence of TChalla.

Howzabout trying to distract TChalla with a Mystic Vibranium enhanced returned to energy or physical form Klaw?


But.

Given the fact that Doom was starring in major ways all over the Marvel Universe? They weren't going to let BP, Storm, BP and Storm, or anybody who wasn't a major A-List White guy smash on Doom. That's it. THOR did it, and that's part of the proof that makes my point. At that time, Doom and Osborn and H.A.M.M.E.R. were running things. It was THE DARK REIGN. Remember?

No shine for Black people.


The points you made concerning Doom in response to the scenerio I created with a plausible course of action Storm may take is a very good one. I'll have to concede that Doom would have prepared for that eventuality. Maybe he could have used magic to counter any telepathic aid Storm may seek. I have seen Selene, the Black Queen of the Inner Circle, use her mystical abilities to prevent telepaths from using their powers. This occurred during the Kulan Gath arc circa Uncanny 191, so its likely that Doom could have used his magic in way that would be a slight variation to this to block Emma. That said, this still should not have stopped Storm from trying something. Good points!

I'll get back to your other post addressing my other points in a bit...
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BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
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Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #695 on: July 26, 2014, 01:43:30 pm »
...please stop with the personal attacks. We're geeks. We like comics. Okay. Let's keep the stuff comic centered, okay?





You're absolutely right, Supreme...

I apologize.    That won't happen again.   


(I hope)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #696 on: July 26, 2014, 02:09:29 pm »

Couple of things I'd like to point out:

I slob on Greg Pak's knob like an ice cream cone whilst rocking my Storm cosplay attire.



Yup!

Creep actually making a Statement of fact usually voiced by readers not caught up on that X-crement Koolaid



Storm
reacting like the typical X-crement cult member sipping the aforementioned Koolaid.





That's why the fact that Creep has more or less been singled out as a disliked character by most of the other idiots like yourself posting over in CBR comes a no suprise to me.

Much like Storm, most of you tend to have no problem lashing out or generally trash talking when the truth proves inconvenient.

But since I don't do things by half or rely on misdirections, obsfucations or blatant lies like yourself, here we go....

Quote from: Kieran_Frost;343447
a) even some die hard T'Challa fans are voicing a lack of satisfaction with his work (and with T'Challa being central... man, that tells you something)
b) he is a very intelligent writer, who creates complex intelligent plots... nearly VOID of character.  He writers smart and emotionlessly stunted well (he'd write a wicked Emma); but the X-verse is built on character (and characterisation) and that is not his strong suit.  Never has been.  One of the main jokes you see about Avengers is 90% of the characters could be swapped out and in... the story would remain identical (which shows how much character matters to anything he does)
c) Hickman wanted to use Storm (the X-verse said no) and have T'Challa secretly sleeping with her behind the scenes = so to Wakanda they are broken up, but they would still be together.  Hickman didn't want to use Storm IN the Illuminati, but he wanted to use her as a glorified booty call.
d) the X-verse is THE LGBT strong hold... with Hickman running things... well his track record is appauling with LGBT characters

So NO, I don't desperately pine away waiting for the day Hickman gets to write her or the X-verse.  I'd be curious to see ONE guest arc (or even have him do a science team comic) and I'd happily by a T'Challa solo series or an Emma Frost/T'Challa duet book (man, that would be awesome), but in charge of the X-verse = GOD, NO!


Quote from: rutog98;343545
Can you please post a link that gives the details about Hickman wanting to use Storm as a booty call? Send it ASAP, if you can. I'm going to use this in a debate I am having with some internet pals. Where did you find this information?


Quote from: Kieran_Frost;346655
Yeah... I was so excited originally when I heard he was taking over New Avengers, making T'Challa and Namor major players... disappointing.  Plus he talked in several interviews about how diversity matters, and syaing how half the team will be women and minorities.  Yet 2 years later his "LGBT character" (*wink*) has yet to be outed.  Oh well.


Can't wait to see Guggenheim take a shot at it (I will miss Brian Wood), SO HAPPY that Deathbrid will be back.  I really want the comic to continue, it's such a great team.


So sorry I don't have a link; I was first told about in the BP thread (it was about Hickman and New Avengers after all).  Check there.  :)


Oh, I never meant to imply Hickman specifically used the term "booty call" in his comment (he didn't to my knowledge); that was my more flamboyant description... but ultimately... that is what he saw Storm as (call it what you will, that is what it was).  He didn't want to use her on the Illuminati (in place of Beast, let's be honest, Storm makes far more sense), he didn't want it to be public or known (so not referenced in the X-comics), he wanted to use Storm as a secret "intimate" sex partner for T'Challa.  That (to me) doesn't imply respect/a Storm I wanted to see.  She is NO ONE'S booty call, nor is she in a story simply to sleep with.

It's a shame, Storm would have been great on the Illuminati (it would have been nice to see Hickman try and rise up a female in Marvel to major "world moving" heights), Goddess knows she's more qualified that the walking blue furball, and it would have been a perfect situation to (if they wanted) start laying some real ground-work to one day bring them back together as a stable, couple.  Not rushed but slowly built.  Instead Hickman just saw her as a "booty call".  So I pass.


The fact that you're stupid enough to seek truth from one of the most dishonest and disingenuous posters on CBR, says more about your lack of character and general duplicity than anything else.

The poster in question never read a single issue of Reginald Hudlin's Black panther but was fond of slagging off the series just off of the strength of misinformation and hearsay in much the same manner as you yourself do within thi forum and the fact that this poster purposefully misrepresented Hickman's desire to write Ororo within the New Avengers by falsely implying that Hickman wanted her to be "T'Challa's booty call" despite evidence to the contrary makes you look all the more pathetic and stupid to boot.



First? Like I said in my summarization of STORM#1...I'm an instant fan of CREEP, this whole scene is proof that Pak can write his a$$ off, he has a very solid grip on this whole mutant thing from the pro and con perspective, and the art in this book isn't given its props. It's solid art, friend.

Second? Storm saved the universe multiple times while this kid CREEP was in diapers. Yeah, Creep had a helluva point. But SELLOUT?

TPG don't let sellouts be the Queen of Wakanda, yo. TChalla don't marry sellouts, yo. Real talk.

Storm had every right to remind that little girl who the Alpha Female is. And if saving the universe, the galaxy, the world including that girl, housing the essence of Eternity, and allat other stuff that Storm did makes her a sellout?

Sign me up.


However, the team of The Illuminati is comprised most heavily of supergenius tech type big brain folks. I think that Storm is quite intelligent but I don't think she's the mighty brain type. I do indeed want to see not just AN woman but SEVERAL WOMEN in The illuminati, but off top Moondragon Black Swan Captain Universe The Celestial Madonna and even Satanna...if she wasn't dead and was written to her actual power...would be a better fit, given the personality types that dominate The Illuminati.

I truly thing Storm could and would be a valuable addition to The Illuminati. I just think the above listed ladies would probably be a BETTER fit.


Brother Supreme Illuminati,

In real world terms, none of Storm's world saving exploits pre-AvX preclude her from being seen as a sellout in the wake of that event and that's what I took from Creep's blunt force trauma delivered exposure of the intrinsic conceit inherent in the X-mens overall approach to life within the fictional 616 MU.

The fact that the supposedly more mature and seasoned "Alpha female" felt the need to use her powers to bully a student with thunder and lightning for "daring" to have the temerity to hold a mirror up to Storm's hypocrisy, doesn't exactly show Ororo to be anything but the extremely capricious and treacherous character that the X-writers turned her into during (and after) AvX.



The fact that even Professor Xavier himself pointed out Ororo's folly in blindly following Scott Summer and his Phoenix 5's lead during AvX is "conveniently" overlooked by the hardcore of disingenuous X-fans who are always so quick to explain away behaviour in their favoured characters that they would normally criticize non-stop if said characters where not affiliated with the X-universe.



Creep's calling Storm out as a sellout was as onpoint as it was solidly justified regardless of whether the younger mutant was in diapers when Storm was off saving the planet or not.

As for any plans that Jonathan Hickman may have had for including Ororo in the New Avengers narrative, any such plans were rendered impossible by the selfsame X-office who like many of their sycophantic fans, can't seem to keep T'Challa and Wakanda out of their dirty mouths.

Greg Pak may indeed end up being the last best hope for Storm's growth from slave to the mutant as persecuted aesthetic that permeates the X-books, into the much more relevant Ororo, daughter of Africa and true elemental avatar of positive change untainted by faux political posturing and X-related insular/elitist stupidity.


Offline Princesa

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #697 on: July 26, 2014, 02:47:40 pm »
What REALLY incenses me is to be insulted with an X board person's criticism when their writers  have treated her like a free range piece of ass for decades.

Offline Booshman

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #698 on: July 26, 2014, 02:56:31 pm »
What REALLY incenses me is to be insulted with an X board person's criticism when their writers  have treated her like a free range piece of ass for decades.

And how they complain the loudest about her getting "chumped" in other books, when they've been practically silent comparatively, over the fact that she's been treated far worse in the X-books for decades.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #699 on: July 26, 2014, 03:06:12 pm »
What REALLY incenses me is to be insulted with an X board person's criticism when their writers  have treated her like a free range piece of ass for decades.

I don't know what u are referring to here. Prior to her marriage to T'challa, who did Storm sleep with outside of Forge?

That said, Storm fans have complained HEAVILY on the boards over the years about the Lobdell years and how Storm was written. If I went to a board and they weren't complaining yet, they certainly did once I got through talking about it. They complained about Matt Fraction too talking about it needs to be a national holiday when he finally leaves the book for making Storm wallpaper. Even no they have complaints about Wood (in Wood's case, the complaints they have against him would actually apply to the treatment of all characters in the book).
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:10:14 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #700 on: July 26, 2014, 03:13:48 pm »
What REALLY incenses me is to be insulted with an X board person's criticism when their writers  have treated her like a free range piece of ass for decades.


You ain't never lied Princessa.

Ororo has been done down consitently and portrayed as being weak more times than not in the X-books but this all gets overlooked by the same clowns who are now praising Greg Pak for rehashing concepts that Reginald Hudlin already explored with Ororo within the Black Panther book.

I nearly died laughing when I read this.....




Since when did the X-Men become an internationally recognized Nation state let alone an organization capable of negociating with other nations?

But of course on the otherhand we see that the X-men have no problem interfering with the political process within other peoples countries as long as their precious mutant interests are at stake.

As Queen of Wakanda, Ororo actually had all of the political clout and LEGITIMATE UN authority to effect change that her status as a recognized Monarch gave her and this is one of the reasons why Professor Xavier recognized her as being one of the most powerful mutants on the face of the 616 MU not just by virtue of her mutant abilities but by the VERY REAL gravitas that her position as Queen of Wakanda gave her on the international stage.











That was what Reginald Hudlin brough to Ororo's personal mythos by way of REAL character growth and relevance to vast 616 MU that exists beyond the narrow, insular scope of the X-books.

But such nuances are usually lost on forked tongued idiots and their equally stupid blind followers on CBR seeking for links to prove that writers of Jonathan Hickman's pedigree are as twisted as the bigoted hacks currently churning out X-supremacist crap from the X-office.

 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:32:21 pm by Salustrade »

Offline Booshman

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #701 on: July 26, 2014, 03:20:23 pm »

Since when did the X-Men become an internationally recognized Nation state let alone an organization capable of negociating with other nations?

But of course on the otherhand we see that the X-men have no problem interfering with the political process within other peoples countries as long as their precious mutant interests are at stake.

Now THAT is PIS! Because the X-men can't even stop with the Teen Drama-esque infighting that they're known for, and are more self destructive than a nuclear fission reactor during a meltdown. What did that one female AIM scientist say?

"The best way to take down mutants, is just to let them be."
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 03:22:37 pm by Booshman »

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #702 on: July 26, 2014, 03:35:52 pm »
What REALLY incenses me is to be insulted with an X board person's criticism when their writers  have treated her like a free range piece of ass for decades.


And how they complain the loudest about her getting "chumped" in other books, when they've been practically silent comparatively, over the fact that she's been treated far worse in the X-books for decades.


Fanatics aint hearing you though.




Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #703 on: July 26, 2014, 03:48:35 pm »

Since when did the X-Men become an internationally recognized Nation state let alone an organization capable of negociating with other nations?

But of course on the otherhand we see that the X-men have no problem interfering with the political process within other peoples countries as long as their precious mutant interests are at stake.


Now THAT is PIS! Because the X-men can't even stop with the Teen Drama-esque infighting that they're known for, and are more self destructive than a nuclear fission reactor during a meltdown. What did that one female AIM scientist say?

"The best way to take down mutants, is just to let them be."


Real talk my bro.

Peep these....




and tell me that you don't see the irony in Emma Frost crying about the fact that she used to be a "queen" when she was intsrumental in detroying the marriage and life of a Real Queen.......




as well as the land that said Queen used to rule......



alongside her former husband.....


Offline Princesa

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #704 on: July 26, 2014, 04:08:29 pm »
Rutgog

So there was that time Storm had to "shelter" Cyclops from the elements--with Xavier getting his life monitoring and then she was Dracula's concubine for a run of time that nobody knows when that ended,then there is of course Namor ,Nightcrawler, Arkon...