Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 455741 times)

Offline moneyspider

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2014, 12:21:58 pm »
I think at some point Marvel and DC are going to have to come to grips with the reality that most of their books starring minority characters are not going to sell well, and the companies will have to be okay with that, especially since they are making so much money from all of their Batman, Spider-Man, X-Men, Justice League and Avengers books.

At some point these companies won't have a choice in publishing minority-led books because once the narrow-minded crowd they are currently catering to dies out, who are the companies going to cater to then?

Also, the facts that some books ultimately fail never really stops Marvel from relaunching them. Black Panther has benefited from several relaunches (benfited in terms of getting several chances as opposed to the actual content of the stories, some of which have been controversial).

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2014, 01:33:45 pm »
I suspect a lot of these relaunches are done to keep the trademarks alive,  not because they expect the titles to last.

But I think you have more confidence in the industry than I do.  I think when the current fan base dies out, the super hero comic industry is going to die with it.   Super hero movies,  cartoons,  games will continue,  but the comic form will die or shrivel to three or four  books.

Offline BlackRodimus

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2014, 05:06:00 pm »
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!
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Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2014, 05:14:02 pm »
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline moneyspider

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2014, 11:09:58 am »
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2014, 01:55:38 pm »

Offline TripleX

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2014, 02:47:16 pm »
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.

I agree with this.

I don't. It sounds like punking out, I don't think we should roll over just because some fans are afraid of a Black power couple. There are plenty of people that hate Superman and Wonder Woman together, that doesn't stop their book from being great or selling well.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2014, 05:00:02 pm »
The best gift to this book Marvel could give is pairing T'Challa with a dynamic other love interest so their friendship could resume unencumbered and his base bitterness be assuaged.

I agree with this.

I don't. It sounds like punking out, I don't think we should roll over just because some fans are afraid of a Black power couple. There are plenty of people that hate Superman and Wonder Woman together, that doesn't stop their book from being great or selling well.

For some people, it may have been an issue of the whole "Black couple" thing, however, there were legitimate gripes about the whole marriage thing. Some people were turned against the marriage for reasons good and bad. Many people believed that being married to Black Panther was a drag on Storm's personality. There is merit to this. The whole thing started with the Storm mini written by EJD. In that story, BP proved to be a MAJOR drag on Storm's personality as her character was destroyed here to put T'challa up on a pedestal. Some of her early characterization right after the mini at the beginning of her tenure in the BP book was awkward. I'm thinking now about the issues where she and T'challa visited Namor in Atlantis and the Inhuman story. Keep in mind this all came right on the heels of that terrible Storm mini which drug on for 6 issues. In other words, there was at least 6 consecutive months (a month for each issue of the EJD mini) of really bad Storm writing in an effort to force this marriage followed by some awkwardness in her early portrayals of the BP title as Hudlin was trying to find his way with the character. That is not a good start at all and many of the Storm fans who were willing to give the marriage a chance were permanently lost during this time. While Hudlin's Storm did improve over time (and really arrived the 6 issues before Maberry came on), too much damage was done at the beginning of the project. Adding to this there was no realistic build up leading to the marriage and Storm being rushed into this union did not help things at all. Storm's character totally came out on the losing end at the beginning of this ordeal from the way things were handled at the very beginning.

Below is an article allegedly written by Steve Morris taken from another board a poster presented in a response on a Storm thread. This article summarizes the largest complaints to the Storm marriage I came across from other Storm fans during Storm's and BP's time together:

"As a result of Storm marrying Black Panther, she moved from the X-Men office to the Avengers office, where TíChalla is managed. This meant she had to be removed from Uncanny X-Men, annoying Claremont (who also lost Kitty Pryde at around the same time, and is rumored to be the main point of contention between him and the company). It also allegedly meant that Ed Brubakerís plans to use her in his Uncanny X-Men run had to be initially quelled, as the focus had to be on establishing her as a supporting cast member to the Black Panther book. The wedding issue saw massive sales, and tied in to Civil War.

Once she moved across to the Black Panther solo book, there was immediate discomfort with Hudlinís stories Ė which seemed to have awkward political agendas shoehorned in. To top things off, Hudlinís dialogue for Storm bore little resemblance to her previous formal style, as she became what was essentially a cheerleader for her husbandís feats. At one point she sentenced somebody to death, when Storm has always been aspired to use non-violence as an answer.

There was respite from the iffy Black Panther title when Dwayne McDuffie decided to use the characters in his Fantastic Four run, brilliantly using them as replacements for Reed Richards and Sue Storm. There was suddenly a dynamic between the couple, which seemed realistic for perhaps the first time. Their repartee was funny, they seemed to like each other, and the series was favored by critics. But this was only a short-term move, and eventually the character returned to Black Panther, which was rapidly losing sales. A series of relaunches followed, none of them lasting for a long period of time despite a number of different sales tactics.

Editorial started to feel that they had a lame duck on their hands, solidified when writers like Warren Ellis brought Storm back to the X-Men and gave her more to do as a guest than Hudlin allowed her in the book she was meant to be a central part of. The marriage became an open joke among fans, who watched as Stormís status in the X-Menís world dwindle, to the point where Chris Yostís 2008 Storm miniseries ĎWorldís Apartí was entirely focused on the difficulty sheíd have in living her split life.

Hudlin failed to get the Black Panther cartoon a run on BET, instead having to settle for a direct-to-DVD release. At the same time, he left the comic book and was replaced by Jonathan Maberry, who couldnít reverse the sales decline. The book was cancelled. Incredibly, Marvelís most famous female character was now unused. X-Men writers started to bring her back into their world, with Matt Fraction setting her up in the X-Menís Utopia location for a scattered bunch of guest-appearances. Black Panther, meanwhile, was nowhere to be seen. Having previously been promoted by a number of X-Men titles, the character was now seemingly ignored and viewed as a drag on Stormís personality."


There are some things I disagree with in this article. For instance, Storm sentencing someone to death is within her character. While she did not start out that ruthless, she evolved into a character who was that dangerous. She stabbed Callisto through the heart in a knife fight totally unaware that one of the Morlocks present had the ability to heal the wound and save Callisto's life. She ripped out Marrow's heart in another knife fight in a different issue to stop a bomb and save the life of millions. She's killed Brood in fights and has used lethal force in other battles as well. She normally won't go that far, but push her far enough, and she will. The lady is capable of beserker rages worthy of Wolverine! This is canon.

The other thing I have to disagree with in the article was Storm's treatment when she came back to the X-Men. I can remember a Morlock story where her captors tried to hold her in a wooden coffin underground. (How stupid is that?!) She's pretty much been wallpaper ever since. This is why I've only bought like 7 comics within the last 2-3 years.

One more thing the article points out is the whole situation with the BP animated cartoon that was slated to air on BET. I don't see what that has to do with comicbook/marriage. I think the comicbook marriage and the cartoon are two separate issues and the cartoon thing should not have been included in the article. Nobody is going to be against the marriage because a cartoon did not air on BET. 

That said, to be honest, there's a lot of validity to many of the claims made in this article. I've already outlined my personal feelings on why I think the marriage didn't last in the "IGN deems Storm/Panther marriage bad" thread.

That said, the marriage is over. They are not going to put those two back together anytime soon if ever. Its time to put that to rest and look forward to other opportunities that are presenting themselves like this new upcoming Storm mini beginning in July. Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 05:34:37 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2014, 06:48:34 pm »
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah...

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2014, 07:21:51 pm »
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah...


If it is epic, then it wouldn't need anyone's support.  It would have all the support it needs.

Offline Seven

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2014, 07:25:11 pm »
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.

Money, write that letter now. Don't wait. Tell him the exact points you have stated and if he's as what people are saying, he will not go there. But like others have said. I just don't trust Marvel. They way they put this book out and the price tag isn't helping the book.

Though the editor David K. never seem like a hater. He seemed like he liked that Storm was Queen of Wakanda. I just don't think he had much power at the time. That might have changed, especially since he is co-editor of Uncanny Avengers with Brevoort and the addition of Mike Marts.

Offline moneyspider

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #41 on: May 03, 2014, 11:15:45 am »
Buy it! It will be epic and it needs your support. :)




Nah...


If it is epic, then it wouldn't need anyone's support.  It would have all the support it needs.


Aside from a few issues, Christopher Priest's run on "Black Panther" was epic, yet it still needed a LOT of support that it never got, both from a reader standpoint and an editorial standpoint. If I'm not mistaken, Priest's Black Panther bopk was one of the best books that a lot of people weren't buying.

So just because a book is epic doesn't automatically mean it will have support or all of the support it needs. Plenty of good books needing support get canned while lesser mediocre books keep getting bought due to the characters involved and the creative teams involved.

Offline moneyspider

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #42 on: May 03, 2014, 11:25:43 am »
I like Pak just fine (loved his work on the Hulk), but I just don't trust Marvel when it comes to Storm. Conflicted!

I think Pak is going to knock it out of the ball park. I'm thinking of buying two of each issue that gets published to support the title.

As will I. And if Pak writes something that I think paints Storm (or Black Panther) in a bad light, I'm definitely going to write him a letter.

If I'm ever disappointed by something written or drawn by Marvel, I'm definitely going to let them know about it...especially since they are always asking for feedback anyway.

Money, write that letter now. Don't wait. Tell him the exact points you have stated and if he's as what people are saying, he will not go there. But like others have said. I just don't trust Marvel. They way they put this book out and the price tag isn't helping the book.

Though the editor David K. never seem like a hater. He seemed like he liked that Storm was Queen of Wakanda. I just don't think he had much power at the time. That might have changed, especially since he is co-editor of Uncanny Avengers with Brevoort and the addition of Mike Marts.

Seven, you are reading my mind. I'm about to put the finishing touches on a snail mail letter I'm going to mail to Greg Pak, probably on Monday. I originally intended for it to be a one-page letter but I think it's going to really be a two-page letter after I print it out...I kind of went off on a rant in the letter, but it's a preemptive rant that Greg Pak needs to hear. He's about to get a little history lesson on the whole Black Panther hatred from some of the Storm fans and the treatment of Black Panther in the X-books.

I'm also going to follow up this preemptive letter with other letters, because if Pak IS going to have Black Panther show up in Storm's book at some point, I want him to be well-informed of how great a character Black Panther is, the character that Stan Lee, Christopher Priest, Reginald Hudlin, Dwayne McDuffie and David Liss wrote, and the same one that Jonathan Hickman is writing.

In the letter I'm polishing up, I've even mentioned that Black Panther is King of the Dead now over in Jonathan Hickman's "New Avengers" book, so that Greg Pak might seek Hickman out in the future in case he is planning on Black Panther appearances.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #43 on: May 03, 2014, 12:34:22 pm »
I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good as we saw in the very early portrayals of these two characters going back to EJD. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 12:41:32 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline TripleX

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #44 on: May 03, 2014, 12:51:07 pm »
The book is going to fail anyway, let's get real. It's a female lead title in the midst of the other Marvel Now titles She-Hulk, Black Widow, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel and Elektra. They all can't be winners, it will probably last a year.

As a reader I want to see Black Panther in the title, but most of all I don't want Pak to forget she's Black.