New Storm Ongoing Title

[KIP LEWIS]

Those scans have no credibility. Storm was able to defeat a Sentinel above New York City with a hurricane capable of leveling the whole city, yet her control was such that only the robot was hurt while leaving NYC unharmed. Storm has had this degree of control from the get-go as it happened in Uncanny 98. That issue wrote Storm down for Val.

No she wasn't written down,  she was holding back and underestimated Val's resolve.    If she knew Val was going to act that way (and had a better handle on Val 's invulnerability and endurance,  she would have fought in a different way.   

[supreme illuminati]

I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.

[APEXABYSS]

Trust me, I’m not “goin-in” as hard as I could. Without poise my position would prove invalid. My stance has to be debunked based upon the merit of the information.

If I wanted to go hard-- I would start with (Daniel) Jericho Drumm aka Brother VooDoo.



Check the white “Mohawk.” Storm’s Mohawk is still questionable.



Storm's mo' could be in dread(lock)form too. maybe!



Yes, Brother VooDoo! The original term “VUDUN” (voodum, vodum, voudou, vodo).
 
I could start with the BP/ Spawn comparisons (even Afro Samurai) but Bro' is his own character. I could break-down the true origins of vudum but the “shrunken-heads” would come under-fire. He’s has a good story & title worth developing, too.

   

Jericho & Daniel/ Afro & Ninja Ninja

again, I'll come back to Bro' Voo' some other time.


Storm...

She’s headed to the Caribbean in the new series? A Doc-Voo cameo could go bad. I’d have to disapprove of Storm battling another black dude, especially after her domestic-disturbance-assault past.

Match-making? Storm & Dr. VooDoo?

“Jungle Love” ~The Time (background chorus “O re O re O”) Ororo? get it? No? -lol

Powers? They gave it to Quire



nice pink "Mohawk", Quentin! real nice! Storm’s Mohawk is still questionable.


Goddess?  Like it or not Tchalla is a demi-god. I’d put Storm in the demi-goddess category. Yep, more perfect for each other.


 

[Salustrade]

I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.

And what makes the position of some of these so-called Storm fans who love to rant about how "devalued" she was supposed to have been whilst appearing in the Reginald Hudlin's BP so laughable is stuff like this....

Where the "goddess" can barely hold her own against first Magneto....



before getting obliterated by an alternate reality Dark Phoenix.....



But as long as they get a glimpse of Ororo stomping her feet in faux fiercness all's right with the world.....Yaaaaaaaaasss!



I LOL'd so hard when I read this exchange with Ororo barking at Cyclop's with a request to speak in private. Funny how the writer never bothered to show what that private discussion was.

Maybe Ororo was finally getting round to having that word with Scott that she claimed they'd have when the matter of his sanctioned death squad came to light years ago. :smh:

The ever nauseating faux diversity of the X-rags never fails to deliver.

[Rutog98]

Storm fans have gripes about "No More Mutants." I'm not buying it, personally. Here are some of the posts I've done on it voicing my feelings on the matter:

Post 1

I've been e-mailing with WINDRIDER about the No More Humans story. Though I did not read the graphic novel for myself, I don't plan to buy it given the treatment of Storm's powers as outlined by WINDRIDER and The Weather God. Part of the reason I believe Storm was weakened like that was to make Magneto relevant. I don't think Storm does well on a cast with other elementals. I make this assertion because her elemental powerset is so varied and powerful that often times its scaled back. If you have Storm on a team, you don't need people like Magneto and Iceman. Its really kind of redundant, if you ask me. About the only thing Magneto would add to a team with Storm on the roster is metallic control (which she should be able to do as well magnetically, but doesn't. She controls EM energies like Magneto, but uses them in a different way for different, more powerful purposes. She combines that energy with other forces he does not control for her weather feats.) The writer was obviously not happy with just having Magneto as a metal thrower, so he weakened Storm to give him a power niche to fill on the team.

I hope Iceman leaves the cast of "Amazing X-Men" when Yost comes on board for this reason. Iceman's ability is essentially to move moisture around and remove heat from his target space. Storm can do the same things and she's much more powerful. Not only can she move heat from a target space, she can also ADD heat to an area. She can also control moisture PLUS she has all the other stuff with pressure gradients, wind, atomic level control over the air, control over electricity/electrons and EM energies, etc. Iceman really doesn't have a niche to fill on a team with Storm that she can't fill. This is usually a cause for concern given that it heightens the propensity for Storm's powers to be devalued in orer to make another elemental like Iceman have a purpose on the team in terms of power. That said, I am still VERY hopeful and optimistic about Yost taking over AXM given how powerfully he portrayed Storm in Worlds Apart. In order to make Iceman (and, to a lesser degree, maybe Firestar) useful to the team, this is probably why the current exiting writer of AXM devalued Storm by writing her powerless in the arc that just concluded. I mean, we all know that Storm has the ability to control whatever forces are present no matter where she is. There was heat, moisture and air all present in this hellish dimension all of which falls under Storm's dominion. Even when she is at a place where the forces are very different from those found on the Earth, she is still able to exercise supreme power over those forces as demonstrated in the Trion arc circa Uncanny 365. Since Storm still has her formidable H2H combat skills to rely on, if powerless, the writer probably just figured to write her without her powers and go back to her H2H so that Iceman would have a reason to be on the team.

Post 2 on "No More Mutants"

Also, if Storm can rip electrons out of Stardust, a HERALD OF GALACTUS, and send them back with enough force to blow up his physical form, then she doesn't need Magneto to pull electrons out of a machine for her. She can do that herself. She's even managed to make all of the power in a skrull space ship go away with a mere thought. Again, I agree with you 100% on the part about Jean Grey pulling oxygen into the field. That totally should have been Storm. We saw Storm out in deep space during her run on the FF where she was able to control air at the atomic level to create a mini-atmosphere composed of hydrogen atoms around the Silver Surfer. She not only pulled them together efforlessly in deep space, she held them together with no strain at all as she struck him with that MASSIVE bolt of lightning she generated in the space/cosmic environment.

They are in agreement with me on this.

[Maxine Shaw]

But moneyspider does bring up a good point: it does seem like all the white gods are shown to be legit, or at least uber-powerful, meanwhile the gods of other mythologies are seen as lesser for the most part.

True, true. If you can have gods, why not goddesses?

[Rutog98]

I really hope they keep BP out of the "Storm" title for a while. This is a very hot button issue and I want the title to do well. Storm is a bigger character than Black Panther. There is too big a risk of her character being devalued to make him look good. If this happens, it will alienate readership from the book and there will be another internet uprising behind it reinforcing to Marvel to keep these characters apart.

That said, I think it would be nice if Ororo and T'challa were good friends, but its not an interaction that needs to occur in her title anytime soon. Give the book a chance and let it get some steam first before T'challa shows up for an issue or two...if he even shows.

Why risk her title with something like a Storm/BP reunion when so many of her fans who will be supporting the book HATE it? There is no point to prove in forcing something on the readership they don't want to see. All it will do is tick them off and alienate them ensuring the book's failure.

To me, the bottom line is the X-books don't have a problem putting Black Panther in their books when they want to trash him, but somehow we should NOT want him to show up when we want Greg Pak and other writers to write him well?

That may not be what you meant (and I don't really think that is what you mean), but that's kind of what it sounds like. It sounds like "if Black Panther is not getting outright trashed in an X-book, then Storm fans will be upset, and we shouldn't upset them, because we want Storm's ongoing book to do well."

So many of her fans are pssing me off and have been pissing me off for years over their biased attitudes against Black Panther that I really don't care what they want, because all those types of fans want is for no black man to appear in any of their books, especially when Storm is concerned.

I'm not interested in appeasing Storm's fans, the majority of whom need their heads examined.

And why would her character have to be "devalued" in order to make Black Panther look good? How about writers and editors make them BOTH look good, like professionals should? It doesn't have to be an either/or thing, and neither character has to look bad.

What Marvel should be doing (and should have been doing from the get-go) is making both characters shine, just like their original creators intended instead of turning Storm and Black Panther into an episode of Real Housewives or a reality show on VH1.

And if Marvel and fans keep wanting that, AND WON'T BE HAPPY AND WON'T SUPPORT THE BOOK IF BLACK PANTHER SHOWS UP IN IT AND IS WRITTEN AS RESPECTFULLY AS SHE IS, then both parties should and WILL be called out for their stupidity.

Hasn't Marvell catered to stupidity and racism enough??

Thing is, there has already been an established precedence with Storm's character being devalued for him to look good. To be honest, racism is not the main reason why the Storm fans turned against the Storm/T'challa relationship. Personally, I agree with you that BOTH characters should be written in way that is true to themselves and both written well. Thing is, there is too much emotional baggage here for the time being. That's why I say wait about a year until T'challa (or Cyclops) shows up in her book for an issue or two as a guest-star to give the book every advantage of being successful. People are so angry about the Storm/T'challa thing right now that they are close-minded to it no matter how well it is done. Give them time. Let Storm shine in the way people are used to see her shine (but, this time, enhanced!). Don't force things on the readership they don't want to see. Instead, if you want to see a strong friendship between the two, let it happen gradually during year 2 of the series.

I do understand that there are people with legit gripes about the way that Storm has been written and her past has been retconned. Specifically with EJD's stories in combination with specific books that RH wrote. There are legit differences here.

I think EJD did a MAGNIFICENT job with his [ imo WELL BEYOND OVERDUE VASTLY NEEDED MORE REALISTIC AND SUPERIOR IN EVERY WAY ] retelling. I jousted with two of our premier ladies...Princesa and Jenn...about this very series, IIRC. Neither was particularly enthused, but for different reasons. Jenn, IIRC, wasn't happy with the whole sex thing. Princesa and IIRC Rutog saw no need to retell the story with TChalla coming to Storm's rescue, rather than vice versa.

However.

Couple of big HOWEVERS.

The fact is, the entire X-Office has ALWAYS BEEN DISTINCTLY INHOSPITABLE TO BLACK MEN. So have many of their fans. If they held Black Panther in disregard, it's because MARVEL HELD BLACK PANTHER IN DISREGARD up until the arrival of the epic run of PRIEST. Period. Point blank. Had they known of who The Black Panther ACTUALLY is, and were they NOT inspired by racial animus, their behavior would change drastically once they became aware of just what a nearly unbeatable truly amazingly O.G.  our TChalla really is.

The above comments are in no way speculative. Remember how Storm fans came over to wreck HEF in its previous incarnation? We engaged in many a zesty fiery debate which rather quickly and pleasantly evolved into genuine discussion...and that's how I met and became friends with the Oracle Of Ororo, our very own Rutog.

Now. The people braying against The Marriage and TChalla are THE SAME people who brayed against ANY BLACK PERSON PERIOD. These are THE SAME PEOPLE who INSIST that Ororo IS NOT BLACK but a "quiltwork of humanity". Not knowing how truly racist such a comment is, because Afrikans are literally the font and foundation...the thread from which any quiltwork of humanity must be crafted. All races can be must be and are drawn from the Afrikan root. No non-Afrikan can produce an Afrikan. So, simply by embracing her Blackness...and NO OTHER SCIENTIFICALLY FACTUAL WAY...would these most strident X-fans embrace also the entirety of humanity.

But they rabidly reject the notion that Storm's Afrikan race and heritage in fact means that she herself is Afrikan. In so doing, those who take that stance clearly expose their own unstinting, colossal racism. Those who support that stance do the same. There is no getting around or sugar coating this fact.

So what do we have here?

1. One. Marvel dissed Panther and made him someone that [ under McDuffy's pen...may he R.I.P....] was referred to by the whole of the MU in the same way that The Maestro had The Wizard refer to both Panther and Ororo:"...C-Listers at best...pretensions to relevancy...".

2. This whole pattern has been consistent in Marvel. The Black male hero...if there was one...was a distinct and distant second to the White males. Heroes AND name villains, for the most part. Falcon to Cap. TChalla to Cap. Everyone to Cap. Daredevil>TChalla. The standard pretty much is and was: White Male Hero>Black Male Hero. In short? Racism. For TChalla it began in earnest right after CJP and later RH were removed from the BP helm, and every attempt was made to tear down this newly risen superpowerful Black man. We saw it again with BLUE MARVEL and literally every time we see Afrikans are consistently portrayed as equal to, or superior in any way to, the previously lily White rank of MU A-Listers.

3. The X-Office and their supporters exceeded all others in their debasement of Black males, and did it regularly and often. Usually to great cries of titillation joy pleasure and happiness from their fans. Nowhere else do I recall a ex-cape couple having the woman snipe at the male with such savagery. Denigrating his sexual performance. Intimating that he was an abuser. Racing to exchange TChalla with The Troll. Sleeping with Namor. Leading an invasion force into the country she ruled as Queen. Murdering thousands of previously invincible Afrikans without a peep of retaliation until Hickman [ GOOOOOOO HICKMAN!! ] came along, and greeting these deaths of heroic innocents with snide racist remarks. Remarks that...as one of our legendary posters so ably emphasized...were deafening in their silence and conspicuous in their absence when Wakanda [ led by SHURI, not our TCHALLA ] finally launched just retribution vs Atlantis. Etc etc


Hopefully we are seeing that...over and above, under and below, surrounding and buttressing...whatever [ relatively minor ] legit issues that the genuine Storm Faithful have had. Differences we can respect. Some hated EJD's retcon of the meeting between Ororo and TChalla. Understandable. Some felt that Ororo was CONSISTENTLY portrayed as a cheerleader to TChalla. My response? Show the books that spawned your concerns, and...honestly...Storm was getting more quality face time vs bigger names in a bigger role doing bigger things and was being more prominently featured in bigger crossovers when she was with RH than she had been prior to being under his pen. Real talk.

The legit concerns are, in short, not that big [ although they should be satisfactorily addressed ] and the legit concerns are overwhelmed by the army of Goliaths riding the mastodons in the room.

The Racist Mastodon.

Lets talk about a couple of things, here.

First off, regarding the Storm/Panther mini as written by EJD, I am against it for many reasons. While I don't like how it was rewritten with Storm having to be saved by T'challa (I think the writer should have stuck to the original story and expanded on it. He could have come up with a reason why T'challa needed saving. Maybe T'challa ate some bad food the night before which would have slowed him down. Maybe the guys who ambushed him knew they could not take him and created a fire using herbs that produce hallucinogenic affects if the smoke of their burning is inhaled. They could have created this fire the night before as he slept and positioned it where he would be downwind of the smoke. By the time he woke up, the effects would have already been taking their toll on him when Storm swoops in. Anything number of scenarios could have been implemented to ensure T'challa didn't get the short end of the stick either. Rather than doing this, he devalued Storm. That's TERRIBLE), the larger issues I had concerning the portrayal of Storm had to do with her awkward speech patterns and overall demeanor. In the original story, Storm was very regal and already on her way to being the "untouchable, unattainable goddess". That's the reason she reacted to his offer of kissing her the way she did in the original story. Its a part of her character to act the way she acted. EDJ totally changed who she is. This also ties into Jenn's point about the sex thing. Storm would not have felt at that time she was ready for that kind of intimacy. She was guided from on high by the "Song of the Wind" which told her it was time to leave T'challa in the original telling of the story when she departed. In other words, something like that would not have been what she was looking for and it felt unnatural. I mean, she went from responding to his desire to kiss her with, "if that is your way" in the original story to intercourse in the EJD version.  Storm also had more confidence in herself in the original story while she had virtually no self-esteem at all in the retelling authored by EJD.

EJD does not get Storm AT ALL.

I think a good story should have been written where NEITHER character was devalued.

[Booshman]

Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that? I say that Storm's been written pretty appropriately. She's strong, but not overpowered.

Clamoring for her to be jacked up (power-wise) like a black, female, weather-based, version of freakin' Goku is awful. Especially when she's running around and talking down to everyone with the same faux important "Don't Mess With the Goddess!" attitude before she instantly turns into a nurturing woman, like she's bi-polar/mentally unstable. Which is equally awful. Not to mention lame. And despite the claims to the contrary, that is just what a vocal portion of Storm fans want her to be. Which is why I then scratch my head, when they complain about the character being written inconsistantly.

[Rutog98]

Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.

[Booshman]

Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.

First off, nice. That was a speedy response.

Secondly, have there been any panels in the last 10, 15, or 20 years that have shown that she can do any of what I mentioned about what Iceman can do or greater, on the regular? Creating sculptures isn't creating a walking skyscraper sized giant out of ice. Or has her strength cap been silently retconned and lowered to a more "realistic" level like Spiderman? Who has been able to pick up entire locomotives with ease in the past, but certainly can't do anything like that now? Which doesn't take away from the fact that he's still incredibly strong.

Lastly, she's never been classified as an Omega Level Mutant. Just a possible one. Which wasn't followed up years later, she was arguably stronger and next to Bobby.

I mean, even Magneto has been able to fully shield himself from the Dark Phoenix's blasts in the past. While Storm was flatout fricasseed.

[Rutog98]

Wait....how is Storm more powerful in the moisture manipulation department than Iceman, if he (with just that powerset) was classified (semi-recently) as being an Omega Level Powered Mutant. While Storm with ALL her weather manipulation powers, wasn't? It doesn't add up that "she's more powerful than Iceman" in this regard. Especially when you see all the recent displays of his powers where he can create gargantuan sized ice behemoths/constructs, and instantly flash freeze entire warm areas to the point that the ice is as thick as it is in the North Pole.

When has Storm done anything remotely close to that?

Storm has instantly flash frozen large areas as well. Storm can control moisture to the point where she can shape water droplets to isolate specific wavelengths of the EM spectrum via a specially crafted water lens. She can control ocean currents and also create sculptures out of ice. The reason I say Storm is much more powerful than Iceman is when she controls the weather, she is controlling heat and moisture in concert with a bunch of other forces he does not control like electrical fields and impulses, the EM field/energies, pressure gradients, etc. Storm has global and cosmic feats under her belt. Her powers have been compared with that of Dark Phoenix. This is a woman who has summoned the full power of millions of stars and planets and contained all of that energy inside of her body. The issue where she did that said it was an easy feat for her, too. So, when Storm is controlling weather on a continental scale, hemisphere scale or global scale (she's accomplished all of this), that means she is controlling the same things Iceman controls PLUS all of those other forces as well on that huge scale. Her powers are limited only by the force of her will and body, and her body is only a temporary limitation as she can potentially transcend her physical limitations and evolve into a true goddess. We have seen this happen twice in canon and she has commented that she can potentially evolve one day to a true goddess. Don't get me started on her indomitable will. I can go on and on about that. This woman even had the will to contain the essence of Eternity in her body, something that would have killed even the Silver Surfer had he attempted it. She has also been catagorized as an omega potential mutant. To me, "omega" lost any real meaning ever since Iceman got that label. With his powerset, it should be impossible for him to be classified as an omega mutant, but Marvel did it. Storm is much more powerful than he.

First off, nice. That was a speedy response.

Secondly, have there been any panels in the last 10, 15, or 20 years that have shown that she can do any of what I mentioned about what Iceman can do or greater, on the regular? Creating sculptures isn't creating a walking skyscraper sized giant out of ice. Or has her strength cap been silently retconned and lowered to a more "realistic" level like Spiderman? Who has been able to pick up entire locomotives with ease in the past, but certainly can't do anything like that now? Which doesn't take away from the fact that he's still incredibly strong.

Lastly, she's never been classified as an Omega Level Mutant. Just a possible one. Which wasn't followed up years later, she was arguably stronger and next to Bobby.

I mean, even Magneto has been able to fully shield himself from the Dark Phoenix's blasts in the past. While Storm was flatout fricasseed.

Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.

[Booshman]

Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.

I was going to comment on the first paragraph, but then I read the bold. Which is where the problem lies with your line of thought. She doesn't fulfill the definition of an Omega, because each time that it's been time to define her as one, Marvel has said "Hell no she's not!" And they (Marvel) deals out the cards and decide what's official/canon, whether you like it or not. Since Storm isn't real and doesn't write herself, unless what you claim is actually stated on the page, then it's little more than irrelevant Storm Fanfiction. You can't just make up labels for her and grant her made up feats because she's done something that's loosely associated with the requirements. Because by that logic you could say that "Since Storm is somewhat good at H2H, that she is on the same level as Black Widow, Gamora, Karnak, Iron Fist, Punisher, or Elektra." Which is preposterous as she's never been shown to be on that level, or has been given a label/title that shows her as being up there.

And Galactus isn't Omega Level, so that's a bad example. Because you're wrong. He's above Omega at Cosmic level. Right up there with other god characters like Blackheart, Odin, C'thon, and Shuma-Gorath. Iceman, has been officially labeled as Omega, while Storm still lags behind. This is canon. Storm Fanfiction be darned.

[Rutog98]

Magneto's power levels are a joke compared to Storm's. I already went through that on an earlier page on this thread in my response to KIP. That said, Magneto has no credibility. It has become common practice at Marvel to pit Magneto against stronger character than himself and then devalue them by adjusting their power levels downwards to give him the win. Since you brought up Magneto/Phoenix, I will give you an example of this with the two very same characters. When Phoenix first came out, she battled against Firelord, a Herald of Galactus, and beat him by using blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues later, when she fought Magneto, her powers were scaled down to only rival Xavier's and Magneto beat her (barely) by tapping into the geomagnetic fields. He was barely able to overpower her. Had she been written at the levels she was at when she fought Firelord, she would have been tapping into stars and which is a MUCH more powerful power source than the Earth's EM fields Magneto was tapping into. Notice, Phoenix was much more powerful than Magneto, yet she was pitted against Magneto anyway and her powers were scaled down. In that same issue where Magneto overpowered Phoenix, he also fought Storm. Magneto admitted in that story that Storm would have beaten him if she did not hold back. Storm herself stated that she was afraid of going all out against Magneto because if she did and lost control of her attack, she would kill him and she did not want to kill him.

All that said, it doesn't matter if Storm has been labelled officially an omega mutant or not. She already fulfills the definition of one. She has the potential to wield unlimited power. Iceman, on the other hand, has the label, but it makes no sense with him. An omega mutant, by its original conception, is supposed to be a mutant who can potentially evolve and wield power to match and beat characters like Galactus. To say Iceman can potentially do that with the kind of power set he has is a joke. Lobdell was such a hack of a writer.

I was going to comment on the first paragraph, but then I read the bold. Which is where the problem lies with your line of thought. She doesn't fulfill the definition of an Omega, because each time that it's been time to define her as one, Marvel has said "Hell no she's not!" And they (Marvel) deals out the cards and decide what's official/canon, whether you like it or not. Since Storm isn't real and doesn't write herself, unless what you claim is actually stated on the page, then it's little more than irrelevant Storm Fanfiction. You can't just make up labels for her and grant her made up feats because she's done something that's loosely associated with the requirements. Because by that logic you could say that "Since Storm is somewhat good at H2H, that she is on the same level as Black Widow, Gamora, Karnak, Iron Fist, Punisher, or Elektra." Which is preposterous as she's never been shown to be on that level, or has been given a label/title that shows her as being up there.

And Galactus isn't Omega Level, so that's a bad example. Because you're wrong. He's above Omega at Cosmic level. Right up there with other god characters like Blackheart, Odin, C'thon, and Shuma-Gorath. Iceman, has been officially labeled as Omega, while Storm still lags behind. This is canon. Storm Fanfiction be darned.

You seriously need to go back and read the original X-Men Forever mini that came out in the 90s which was the genesis of the "Omega Mutant" title. It is EXACTLY as I've stated it to be. This was a class of mutants who could potentially wield unlimited power and could match and/or beat people like Galactus if they ever reached their full potential. Claremont established Storm as having the potential to wield unlimited power during his first run. Lobdell, who came up with the whole "Omega Mutant" thing tried to weaken Storm. He stripped her of power levels that were already established for the character.

That said, it is on the page that Storm can potential transcend humanity and evolve into a true goddess. It is on the page that she can potentially wield unlimited power. All of this is canon. She fits the very definition of Omega Mutant as it was originally intended, though, she fulfilled that definition under the pen of a different writer who I don't ever recall using the omega classification.

[KIP LEWIS]

One part I have seen in the definition of an Omega level mutant is that using their powers has no negative impact on their body.    That is not true for  Storm.  Her power had had negative impacts on her health.   The Rogue Storm incident nearly killed her.  Didn't we see the results of over using her power in X-Men the End? (Can't remember. )

 However since this is a made up word, the definition could change depending on who is writing.  That is probably why Vulcan is claimed to be above an Omega level mutant.

One should note that being an Omega level mutant doesn't mean powerful.   Mr. Immortal is an Omega level and his only power is that he keeps coming back to life.   Not exactly powerful there. 

[Rutog98]

One part I have seen in the definition of an Omega level mutant is that using their powers has no negative impact on their body.    That is not true for  Storm.  Her power had had negative impacts on her health.   The Rogue Storm incident nearly killed her.  Didn't we see the results of over using her power in X-Men the End? (Can't remember. )

 However since this is a made up word, the definition could change depending on who is writing.  That is probably why Vulcan is claimed to be above an Omega level mutant.

One should note that being an Omega level mutant doesn't mean powerful.   Mr. Immortal is an Omega level and his only power is that he keeps coming back to life.   Not exactly powerful there.

Originally, an omega mutant was a mutant with the potential to wield "unlimited power" who could match and beat people like Galactus at their full power. If they have changed that since this, I don't know. I haven't been following the book.

That said, Storm has the potential to transcend her human body. Just because she has that potential does not mean she will achieve it. It is something she will have to want to do and she would have to push her power there. If she chooses to push for her ultimate power, then her power will have no limits and she will transcend beyond the limitations of her human form.