Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 455750 times)

Offline Maxine Shaw

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #270 on: June 29, 2014, 06:11:32 am »
that "bug-eyed" sh*t is border-line. angry or negative? whatever it may be, it's motivated by a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

Oh, I agree. What I was saying is that it's perfectly acceptable to be angry by such a lack of cultural sensitivity and negative portrayals.
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Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #271 on: June 29, 2014, 08:12:09 am »

Fun!

Of course, It happens. Marriage is no longer sacred.  Still, dealing with percentages & not blanket statements, we’re talking about a very low single-digit percentile, in a 6000 year history. Heads of State, Royalty & marriage is an African tradition. They were the first to establish it. Fact!

I absolutely believe you and only mentioned those divorced Royalty/Heads Of State types ... frankly, because I didn't want a certain someone else to do so to "make a point".

Quote
The King of a sovereign African nation would not abandon his civic duty to up-hold that tradition. A writer for a fictional comic would. They couldn’t wait for her to leave Tchallah & drop her panties for Logan. African heritage is disregarded. You have to understand non-black-people have difficulty accepting the real history of Africa & ancestral glory. Fan-boy corruption!

THEY couldn't wait for her [Ororo] to leave T'Challa & DROP HER PANTIES FOR LOGAN!

Thank You!!! Some of us have said the exact same thing, though not as well as you have said it here which has lead to misunderstanding. We've made the mistake of speaking of this as though it was Ororo's decision to publicly humiliate T'Challa, as though it was T'Challa's decision to annul their MARRIAGE OF THE CENTURY; some of us carelessly suggested that Ororo was sluttish to jump so quickly at the chance to bump uglies with Marvel's "Mr Ugly Man" himself. And yes...many of us did state at least once that Ororo is merely a comicbook character...fiction. It is the "writer for a fictional comic" who crafted the miserable mischief between Ororo and T'Challa and Ororo in particular who is responsible for this stimulating discussion we are all enjoying  ;D

These writers for fictional comics do so with the sensibilities of one particular segment of their audience in mind. It is from the same demographic so many of them hail from...to then sow their hell where so-called black comicbook characters are concerned. Those writers for fictional comics are largely white and male. White males. The industry is of white males, by white males; for white males. This like couldn't give two cents about African history. Who knows? T'Challa might have been created an African Prince not merely for the exotic possibilities the African continent presented, but because those whites didn't know much and didn't much like or respect the Africans (stolen Africans...or as they called us back then, negroes), living within their borders, nor did they know much about those Africans still living on the continent whom they didn't steal and enslave....the thing is, those writers for fictional comics probably thought that we "stolen Africans" didn't know much nor much care about the continental Africans either.

So, why not create an African prince hailing from a modern civilization unlike anything Africa or the world had ever seen...have them speak like Shakespearean actors...who'll know or care? Let's have some fun. Later, they would would create another African character...a female with long flowing white hair...her NATURAL hair...not a wig made from the hair of Asian women...possessed of unbelievable beauty and blazing blue eyes? Yeah, she's African. At least we'll say she's African.

That's how those writers for fictional comics think.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:13:57 am by sinjection1 »
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #272 on: June 29, 2014, 08:51:34 am »
^ I agree but...

White males? Marvel is a company. I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I don't think it's white & black. I think it's comic nerds uniting. it's mutualism! It's a corrupt fan-boy agenda. Revenge of the nerds!

Paviitr Prabhakar (Peter Parker) Aunt Maya & Uncle Bhim?


Meera Jain? nice.


they could do the same for Ororo & Tchalla.

Switch (From The Matrix) "Not like this. Not like this--" 

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« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 09:11:20 am by APEXABYSS »

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #273 on: June 29, 2014, 11:57:28 am »
Again, you're right on point. Actually, I believe we're not that far apart in our opinion.

Marvel is a company

Indeed it is.

Quote
I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

Same here. We agree. Now then...who founded the company? Who were and are the...(for the want of a better word I can't seem to summon to mind at the moment)...who were and are the "preeminent", the dominant...the main "group" who are the movers and shakers of the company we know as Marvel Comics?

Quote
White males?

Yes, I'd say so. Who were those who at times subjected C. Priest to sneaky, indirect, often race-based "humor" while he was an employee of the company we know as Marvel Comics?

Quote
White males?

I'm afraid so. I do seem to recall kind words about Marie Severin...however, by and large, it seemed the Marvel "Bullpen" was at that time and could still be contaminated by a degree of racist bullshiznit.

Quote
I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I think this is great. The treatment of the hero's costume and the attention to detail respecting the common cultural aspects of the characters and the reading audience without seeming to be "over the top" is something not always evident in the U.S. "product". It's improved through the years, but I'm old enough to remember such characters as the Chinese villian "Yellow Claw" ...his skin was actually yellow, too  :) ...and the Native American superhero, "Red Wolf" and yes, his skin tone had a reddish tinge to it.

It was in this very forum I learned that T'Challa wears that cool full mask not for reasons of optimizing the dynamic effect of the best costume in comicbooks, but to cover his black face so as not to offend the company known as Marvel Comics' white readers who might not appreciate reading stories featuring a black champion. There are those types still today who aren't Panther fans, have never been and will never be Panther fans. Why not? we might ask. I think there are some who might say the character never appealed to them from a comicbook fan's standpoint. Acceptable. I'm not crazy about Hawkeye. Then, there are those who if they choose to be brutally honest about why they dislike T'Challa the Black Panther might say something like, "Because he's racist. Aren't the Black Panthers a racist hate group?", etc... Still others might simply find reading about black characters boring and uninteresting.

Comicbook "creators" aren't that much different from the fans they entertain. A fanboy "nerd" cum comicbook creator "nerd" isn't at all uncommon. There are many who are influenced by their personal preferences. The company isn't at fault for hiring talented individuals, but as you've said and which I've agreed to...those people working for the company can surely be blamed for a great deal of the culturally, racially insensitive rubbish some of us have seen over time.

I look at "Spider-Man" India...an alternate version of Spider-Man and think about another alternate version of Spider-Man, Miles Morales. The initial fanboy backlash against this character wasn't completely owing to the fact that Peter Parker had to die for Miles to exist. Morales' race and ethnicity had a great deal to do with the resentment.

Ororo Munroe, born of two so-called black parents appeared in a story where doctors examining her unconscious form could not discern her race nor her ethnicity. This story produced by the people working for the company known as Marvel Comics was then published by Marvel Comics and remains as a proof point buttressing the argument of those who still refuse to accept Storm as a black woman.





« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:02:52 pm by sinjection1 »
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #274 on: June 29, 2014, 12:00:27 pm »
For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

      
      

http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html






Quit using blanket statements. You’re making accusations. It's rude! Address the arguments & not your made-up beliefs. I’ll hit you with an avalanche of historical facts to support any statement I make. That's not "knocking"... that's clear observation.   
 
Fact #1: Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Fact #2 : Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Keepin’ It Real” means being honest. The truth is essential when critiquing culture related issues.

Freedom of Speech & Expression for You, Max, Greg, Victor & everyone else.


The people in the scans you used from the upcoming Storm book were not depicted as bug-eyed. I have not seen a single bug-eyed Black character in the x-books. Storm, Frenzy, Maggot, Bishop, Stevie Hunter, etc, none of them have been bug eyed.

Regarding your comment about "Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce...", I have to take issue on that. Henry the 8th, anyone?  In the olden days, one of the ways out of the marriage was through murder. Today is much improved, though murder still happens. Glad to see that Wakanda was depicted as a modern country instead of one stuck back in the stone age.

Here is the problem I am having: Many posters here seem to think that Blackness means Storm has to be married to Black Panther, a Black man. If she is with a White man, or a man of any other ethnicity, it makes her less Black. That is the vibe I am getting. To be honest with you, that kind of mentality is stupid and ignorant. Personally, I don't think Marvel's plan for breaking up Storm and T'challa was to put her with Logan. While I think pairing her with Wolverine was a VERY BAD idea, I think the reason Marvel made this move is because there is a certain enmity between the two men. Most Storm fans were very upset about the Storm/Panther marriage (and a lot of that anger is justified, to be frank, from much of what happened to her character as a result of bringing the two together), so I think Marvel paired her with Logan as a way to show her fans that the marriage between Ororo and T'challa is truly over and that the two will not be getting back together. Its not a mere cool off. I think it was an overkill that was out-of-character for Storm. The Storm/Wolverine pairing, I believe, was done as an afterthought.

Getting back to the whole notion of Storm having to be with a Black man to validate her Blackness is all kinds of messed up. She was no more Black when she was married to him than she was at any other point in her history. For starters, she's an X-Man which means she is in a book with predominately White characters. The likelihood of her being with a Black character is very slim. She should not have a mentality where she says, "I only date men of one race." Blackness is a made up term. Its not something innate. As such, different people have different ideas of what Blackness is. Want to know what it is at its core? Blackness, at least in this country, is centered around the church and the Bible. For so long, the church was the corner stone of the Black community and the Black pastor was the most respected person in that same community. As an African-American, one thing I am PROUD to say (and something all of us should be proud of) is that for MANY decades, it was the Black community that truly represented what Christianity was in this country. While you certainly had Whites who were on fire for God, proportionally, I believe that the Black community reflected this much moreso. Unfortunately, lately, the community has been moving away from its Biblical heritage. I can go on and on about this, but then it will become a digression. My point is, one of the things the Bible teaches is its okay to have interracial marriages and relationships. Look at the story of Ruth. Look at the story of Queen Esther who was a Jewish woman that married a Persian king. Look at Moses who was married to an Ethiopian. While I am well aware of the plight of Blacks in this country and understand the feelings many have concerning Black/White relationships, its something that's really at odds with our heritage. 

When considering being in a relationship with someone, it should be about the individual themselves regardless of the color of their skin. If a Black is with a non-Black, I have no problems whatsoever with it as long as its for the right reasons and its not an issue of the Black trying to look down upon his/her own. A Black person can be with someone of another race and be very confident in their own skin, comfortable with their ethnicity and comfortable/respectful of others of their same ethnicity. Storm represents this to me. She does not favor one race over another and she is very comfortable with herself. She is very welcoming and accepting of people of every ethnicity be it her own or a different one. She's a shining example of what everyone should aspire to be. She looks at the individual. This is one reason, I feel, she connects well with readers of various backgrounds. Storm is proof that there is a place for everyone, not just the Scott's and Jean Grey's like we saw in the early days with the original 5 X-Men. While race is an aspect of the character, she is not solely defined by that. If she ends up with a White man or somebody non-Black, its not because that character is a non-Black,  it would be more like she just happened to do so because he just happened to be a good fit for her. This Logan thing is simply her being written out-of-character to show her fanbase that the marriage is and truly over. This is not a cool off period between her and Panther. I'm writing it off as her rebounding from the marriage by scraping the bottom of the barrel to be with him. Mercifully, Logan is dying soon anyway.

All of that said, I will state it again, Storm an Black Panther needed to be broken up. The Storm fans were justified in their anger over this marriage. At first, they were open to the idea of this union eventhough it came out from left field without any realistic build up. Didn't the marriage issue get 70,000 sales, or something like that? As I've stated time and again, too much damage was done to Storm's character early on that alienated the readers from the Dickey mini to Storm not being portrayed as an equal partner in the marriage to T'challa and awkward writing in some of the earlier issues. One example of this would be the story where T'challa and Ororo visited Namor. Clearly, Storm operated there as a cheer leader for her husband and sat there side lined on the "important talks". She should have had an equal voice in that discussion to Namor and T'challa. Plus, her speech patterns were out-of-character. The Inhuman issue was also awkward. I don't want to keep bringing up instances of this, but all of this came on the heels right after the mini...a mini that went on for 6 months. While things got better with time in BP, the Storm fans had already booked off and weren't coming back as a result of what happened early on. When Maberry took over the book, there was a spike in sales which quickly dropped again because readers picked up the book under the new writer and saw a Shuri book. Nobody wants to read about her. The fact that sales spiked with the change of writers means that people were against Hudlin, not the IDEA pairing of the two characters. That sales spike really throws a monkey wrench in the whole "its all based on race" theory many of you hold. While there were a few racists thrown in the mix, overwhelmingly, I can tell you that the reason most were against the marriage (at least, on the internet)  was because they perceived Storm was being devalued by being written out-of-character to prop up the Black Panther. She was portrayed more like Sue Richards than Ororo Munroe personality-wise in some of those earlier issues. Again, this improved with time. Many of those fans you guys are criticizing and calling "racist" are Black, by the way. I can recall one of them, an internet friend of mine, telling me during an IM conversation, "Down with Hudlin!" I responded with, "Huh?" Her:" He's going to make Storm the head of a harem. That's all the Dora Milaje is. Just look at how he messed up her personality?" When I tried to console her (this is a Black female) and tell her that I think Hudlin genuinely likes Storm and is just new to her character, she responded with, "Don't tell me that, Rutog. You just wait and see. Look at that god awful mini. She already gave it up for him when she was a kid. I can't believe they did that to her. Dam@ that Hudlin! You know he and Dickey got together on that.  This is going to be terrible and I'm not going to stick around to see it. I'm giving up on Marvel. I love Storm too much." She was one of the Storm fans who came to this board early on back when I came here to "let the board have it for their disrespect for Storm", LOL! She told me verbatim, just like that in an IM conversation that she was going to get an account here and let you have it. As you can imagine, this young lady is a riot to talk to. I love her. ;) I met her back on the old Wizard boards where I first encountered Jenn. She never wanted to hear anything about BP in our conversations. If I tried to tell her about anything going on in the book, she didn't wanna hear it. Her mind was made up from the mini and some of the earlier issues of BP. She's not the only one like this either, but I shared this instance with you guys since I find it funny.

Anyway, I'm just trying to let you guys know that you are going overboard with the whole "Marvel broke Storm and BP up because they are Black and everyone who wanted to marriage to be dissolved is a racist too" claims.

Apex, of course, this was not all directed towards you, but at the board at large.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:13:10 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #275 on: June 29, 2014, 12:37:31 pm »
Many Storm fans, angered because she'd become the wife and the Queen of T'Challa, the Black Panther and had through the process of becoming such, rediscovered the paternal side of her family, had reunited with the maternal side of her family, had become the beloved Daughter of her new Wakandan family and had seemingly shed herself of that dysfunctional, incestuous mess of a "family" known as the X-Men refused to give the relationship a ghost of a chance and immediately set forth to destroy the Black Panther comicbooks featuring Storm as Wakandan Queen by not patronizing the book, villifying the author, et al.

Storm's beginnings had been in the X-Men...a book practically devoid of a black presence save for a pimp here and there for Ororo to humiliate by creating mini hurricanes over his head...stuff like that there. She was safe in a cocoon of whitefolks and whiteness...a circumstance X-Fans might defend as "colorblindness". Storm's romance and marriage with the Black Panther ripped her away from all that and suddenly, Ororo was surrounded by nothing but blackfolks. Well, there's lots of so-called black people living in Wakanda and throughout Africa. What did they expect?

Storm's wedding was an event attended by the Watcher himself signifying it as something of great importance. Anti-Marriage fans reacted with a "meh... ::)" and determined to not support the Wedding or the comicbook. Prof X prounounced Storm as the most important mutant in the world by virtue of her Marriage to T'Challa. X-Fans still whined about "RoLo" being derailed by Storm's attachment to a C-List character. Storm fans complained that she was second fiddle to a third rate character even though more than once her position as Queen of Wakanda put her in situations of greater gravitas than any period of her being an X-Man had done. Want proof? Start with Ororo's decision making and holding Wakanda together after the assassination attempt against T'Challa and read backward from there.

Now, this new book will have Ororo doing essentially the types of things she would have been doing had she remained Queen of Wakanda and because of this, her fans are geeked and are soliciting support for the book. I have a great deal of respect for the poster Hypestyle. I read his comments and confess to being mildly surprised. I too have been on a comicbook-purchasing hiatus and fully agree with his decision not to support the Storm ongoing.

Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline Princesa

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #276 on: June 29, 2014, 12:50:22 pm »
Bendis is not feeling the X fans right now  he's weary of their "persecuted and put upon" mentality.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #277 on: June 29, 2014, 12:53:04 pm »
Bendis is not feeling the X fans right now  he's weary of their "persecuted and put upon" mentality.
I don't blame him. It is a disaster to be a writer for a book dealing with self-righteous "fans" whom want to pretend they have "ownership" into something they have no control over.
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #278 on: June 29, 2014, 09:47:01 pm »
^ I agree but...

White males? Marvel is a company. I don't blame the company, I blame the people working for the company.

I have several comics of “ Spider-Man” India. They could make provisions, spin-offs & alternate versions (of characters) if they wanted.

I don't think it's white & black. I think it's comic nerds uniting. it's mutualism! It's a corrupt fan-boy agenda. Revenge of the nerds!

Paviitr Prabhakar (Peter Parker) Aunt Maya & Uncle Bhim?


Meera Jain? nice.


they could do the same for Ororo & Tchalla.

Switch (From The Matrix) "Not like this. Not like this--" 

Agent Smith "Never send a human to do a machines' job."


I wish Spider-Man India lasted longer, loved that series

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #279 on: June 29, 2014, 11:24:06 pm »
Rutog98
You didn’t really address any of my points. You danced around the issues. That’s not open dialogue. The arguments seem empty, at times. whatever!

I’m pro- BP /Storm Marriage, because I‘m pro up-holding the sanctity of African Royalty.  RH had the right vision.

You would want the same for Obama & Michelle & would be embarrassed if they didn’t maintain their relationship. They are setting an example. BP & Storm’s divorce was corrupted. So, don’t tell me it needed to happen. That's like saying the corruption needed to happen. What? Don't be a fan-boy apologist.   

I’ve  been an artist my whole life. Never once have I depicted a black-man with a wide protruding mouth & eyes. I understand my culture, that’s why. Victor’s caricature image, like I said, is border-line. I didn’t come-up with the image comparisons out of nowhere. His renderings kinda looks like some “coon” sh*t! I would be more accepting if it were a comedy. But, it’s not. They’re serious. They need some cultural sensitivity training. They need to be careful, is all I said.

It’s unfair to ask a black-man to support someone else’s culture, religion, world-view, history & artistic interpretation jus to get along. Especially when they built the wealth of their nations, organizations & institutions off of my ancestors oppression.  You can’t ask me to accept “culture bandits.” That's patronizing!
 
sinjection1. great insight.
I’m with you on the symbolism behind the “blackness” of BP. It’s been acknowledged before on other levels.


The fan-boys want storm all to themselves, period. In the end it’s all about good intentions. Kirby & Lee had good intentions. Respect to the founders. But the other... they have not shown literary integrity. There is a history of uncivilized behavior as it relates to black people. That’s why it was called the “Civil Rights Movement.” to civilize uncivilized people. the image below... who needs the attitude adjustment?


BP & Storm need their own civil rights. whatever

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:36:33 am by APEXABYSS »

APEXABYSS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #280 on: June 30, 2014, 12:31:21 am »

I wish Spider-Man India lasted longer, loved that series

Yep, I enjoyed the comics. interesting indeed! Miles Morales could stand on his own in an alternate universe spidey. fun!





« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:43:23 am by APEXABYSS »

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #281 on: June 30, 2014, 12:38:20 am »
For the rest of you, I've been holding onto some knowledge for quite some time that I have not divulged. Of all the characters Storm has established bonds with, the Black Panther ranks like second or third on Pak's list as his favorite Storm bond. I think the Storm/Kitty relationship was his absolute favorite. He also likes the character of Black Panther. He's not going to "disrespect" him. Many of you guys are so negative and so full of anger that it boggles the mind. You're knocking on a book that hasn't even come out yet, wow!


It’s not negativity, racism or anger! It’s a lack of cultural sensitivity & understanding.

There is a tragic history of depicting black people as “BUG-EYED”. They have to be careful with the imagery, as well as the writing.

      
      

http://www.newsarama.com/21442-storm-1-first-look-blows-away-her-enemies.html






Quit using blanket statements. You’re making accusations. It's rude! Address the arguments & not your made-up beliefs. I’ll hit you with an avalanche of historical facts to support any statement I make. That's not "knocking"... that's clear observation.   
 
Fact #1: Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Fact #2 : Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce. 6000 years of  proof!

Keepin’ It Real” means being honest. The truth is essential when critiquing culture related issues.

Freedom of Speech & Expression for You, Max, Greg, Victor & everyone else.


The people in the scans you used from the upcoming Storm book were not depicted as bug-eyed. I have not seen a single bug-eyed Black character in the x-books. Storm, Frenzy, Maggot, Bishop, Stevie Hunter, etc, none of them have been bug eyed.

Regarding your comment about "Heads of State & Royalty do not divorce...", I have to take issue on that. Henry the 8th, anyone?  In the olden days, one of the ways out of the marriage was through murder. Today is much improved, though murder still happens. Glad to see that Wakanda was depicted as a modern country instead of one stuck back in the stone age.

Here is the problem I am having: Many posters here seem to think that Blackness means Storm has to be married to Black Panther, a Black man. If she is with a White man, or a man of any other ethnicity, it makes her less Black. That is the vibe I am getting. To be honest with you, that kind of mentality is stupid and ignorant. Personally, I don't think Marvel's plan for breaking up Storm and T'challa was to put her with Logan. While I think pairing her with Wolverine was a VERY BAD idea, I think the reason Marvel made this move is because there is a certain enmity between the two men. Most Storm fans were very upset about the Storm/Panther marriage (and a lot of that anger is justified, to be frank, from much of what happened to her character as a result of bringing the two together), so I think Marvel paired her with Logan as a way to show her fans that the marriage between Ororo and T'challa is truly over and that the two will not be getting back together. Its not a mere cool off. I think it was an overkill that was out-of-character for Storm. The Storm/Wolverine pairing, I believe, was done as an afterthought.

Getting back to the whole notion of Storm having to be with a Black man to validate her Blackness is all kinds of messed up. She was no more Black when she was married to him than she was at any other point in her history. For starters, she's an X-Man which means she is in a book with predominately White characters. The likelihood of her being with a Black character is very slim. She should not have a mentality where she says, "I only date men of one race." Blackness is a made up term. Its not something innate. As such, different people have different ideas of what Blackness is. Want to know what it is at its core? Blackness, at least in this country, is centered around the church and the Bible. For so long, the church was the corner stone of the Black community and the Black pastor was the most respected person in that same community. As an African-American, one thing I am PROUD to say (and something all of us should be proud of) is that for MANY decades, it was the Black community that truly represented what Christianity was in this country. While you certainly had Whites who were on fire for God, proportionally, I believe that the Black community reflected this much moreso. Unfortunately, lately, the community has been moving away from its Biblical heritage. I can go on and on about this, but then it will become a digression. My point is, one of the things the Bible teaches is its okay to have interracial marriages and relationships. Look at the story of Ruth. Look at the story of Queen Esther who was a Jewish woman that married a Persian king. Look at Moses who was married to an Ethiopian. While I am well aware of the plight of Blacks in this country and understand the feelings many have concerning Black/White relationships, its something that's really at odds with our heritage. 

When considering being in a relationship with someone, it should be about the individual themselves regardless of the color of their skin. If a Black is with a non-Black, I have no problems whatsoever with it as long as its for the right reasons and its not an issue of the Black trying to look down upon his/her own. A Black person can be with someone of another race and be very confident in their own skin, comfortable with their ethnicity and comfortable/respectful of others of their same ethnicity. Storm represents this to me. She does not favor one race over another and she is very comfortable with herself. She is very welcoming and accepting of people of every ethnicity be it her own or a different one. She's a shining example of what everyone should aspire to be. She looks at the individual. This is one reason, I feel, she connects well with readers of various backgrounds. Storm is proof that there is a place for everyone, not just the Scott's and Jean Grey's like we saw in the early days with the original 5 X-Men. While race is an aspect of the character, she is not solely defined by that. If she ends up with a White man or somebody non-Black, its not because that character is a non-Black,  it would be more like she just happened to do so because he just happened to be a good fit for her. This Logan thing is simply her being written out-of-character to show her fanbase that the marriage is and truly over. This is not a cool off period between her and Panther. I'm writing it off as her rebounding from the marriage by scraping the bottom of the barrel to be with him. Mercifully, Logan is dying soon anyway.

All of that said, I will state it again, Storm an Black Panther needed to be broken up. The Storm fans were justified in their anger over this marriage. At first, they were open to the idea of this union eventhough it came out from left field without any realistic build up. Didn't the marriage issue get 70,000 sales, or something like that? As I've stated time and again, too much damage was done to Storm's character early on that alienated the readers from the Dickey mini to Storm not being portrayed as an equal partner in the marriage to T'challa and awkward writing in some of the earlier issues. One example of this would be the story where T'challa and Ororo visited Namor. Clearly, Storm operated there as a cheer leader for her husband and sat there side lined on the "important talks". She should have had an equal voice in that discussion to Namor and T'challa. Plus, her speech patterns were out-of-character. The Inhuman issue was also awkward. I don't want to keep bringing up instances of this, but all of this came on the heels right after the mini...a mini that went on for 6 months. While things got better with time in BP, the Storm fans had already booked off and weren't coming back as a result of what happened early on. When Maberry took over the book, there was a spike in sales which quickly dropped again because readers picked up the book under the new writer and saw a Shuri book. Nobody wants to read about her. The fact that sales spiked with the change of writers means that people were against Hudlin, not the IDEA pairing of the two characters. That sales spike really throws a monkey wrench in the whole "its all based on race" theory many of you hold. While there were a few racists thrown in the mix, overwhelmingly, I can tell you that the reason most were against the marriage (at least, on the internet)  was because they perceived Storm was being devalued by being written out-of-character to prop up the Black Panther. She was portrayed more like Sue Richards than Ororo Munroe personality-wise in some of those earlier issues. Again, this improved with time. Many of those fans you guys are criticizing and calling "racist" are Black, by the way. I can recall one of them, an internet friend of mine, telling me during an IM conversation, "Down with Hudlin!" I responded with, "Huh?" Her:" He's going to make Storm the head of a harem. That's all the Dora Milaje is. Just look at how he messed up her personality?" When I tried to console her (this is a Black female) and tell her that I think Hudlin genuinely likes Storm and is just new to her character, she responded with, "Don't tell me that, Rutog. You just wait and see. Look at that god awful mini. She already gave it up for him when she was a kid. I can't believe they did that to her. Dam@ that Hudlin! You know he and Dickey got together on that.  This is going to be terrible and I'm not going to stick around to see it. I'm giving up on Marvel. I love Storm too much." She was one of the Storm fans who came to this board early on back when I came here to "let the board have it for their disrespect for Storm", LOL! She told me verbatim, just like that in an IM conversation that she was going to get an account here and let you have it. As you can imagine, this young lady is a riot to talk to. I love her. ;) I met her back on the old Wizard boards where I first encountered Jenn. She never wanted to hear anything about BP in our conversations. If I tried to tell her about anything going on in the book, she didn't wanna hear it. Her mind was made up from the mini and some of the earlier issues of BP. She's not the only one like this either, but I shared this instance with you guys since I find it funny.

Anyway, I'm just trying to let you guys know that you are going overboard with the whole "Marvel broke Storm and BP up because they are Black and everyone who wanted to marriage to be dissolved is a racist too" claims.

Apex, of course, this was not all directed towards you, but at the board at large.



Many Storm fans, angered because she'd become the wife and the Queen of T'Challa, the Black Panther and had through the process of becoming such, rediscovered the paternal side of her family, had reunited with the maternal side of her family, had become the beloved Daughter of her new Wakandan family and had seemingly shed herself of that dysfunctional, incestuous mess of a "family" known as the X-Men refused to give the relationship a ghost of a chance and immediately set forth to destroy the Black Panther comicbooks featuring Storm as Wakandan Queen by not patronizing the book, villifying the author, et al.

Storm's beginnings had been in the X-Men...a book practically devoid of a black presence save for a pimp here and there for Ororo to humiliate by creating mini hurricanes over his head...stuff like that there. She was safe in a cocoon of whitefolks and whiteness...a circumstance X-Fans might defend as "colorblindness". Storm's romance and marriage with the Black Panther ripped her away from all that and suddenly, Ororo was surrounded by nothing but blackfolks. Well, there's lots of so-called black people living in Wakanda and throughout Africa. What did they expect?

Storm's wedding was an event attended by the Watcher himself signifying it as something of great importance. Anti-Marriage fans reacted with a "meh... ::)" and determined to not support the Wedding or the comicbook. Prof X prounounced Storm as the most important mutant in the world by virtue of her Marriage to T'Challa. X-Fans still whined about "RoLo" being derailed by Storm's attachment to a C-List character. Storm fans complained that she was second fiddle to a third rate character even though more than once her position as Queen of Wakanda put her in situations of greater gravitas than any period of her being an X-Man had done. Want proof? Start with Ororo's decision making and holding Wakanda together after the assassination attempt against T'Challa and read backward from there.

Now, this new book will have Ororo doing essentially the types of things she would have been doing had she remained Queen of Wakanda and because of this, her fans are geeked and are soliciting support for the book. I have a great deal of respect for the poster Hypestyle. I read his comments and confess to being mildly surprised. I too have been on a comicbook-purchasing hiatus and fully agree with his decision not to support the Storm ongoing.





In my opinion, this issue isn't so very complicated...and the various contending sides each have a legit point of contention or two to hand their hats on.

Was The Marriage rushed? No. Could it have been better executed? Yes. Would it have been executed ever at all if not for RH? No. Would Storm have continued to slide into nigh irrelevancy without Hudlin's writing? Yes.

Was the EJD mini shocking, largely due to the sex scene [ which I have a link from EJD saying that Storm was 13, which makes TChalla no more than 15-16...just like a couple of bf-gf couples I see right on my own block; and they're not being villified. Justifiably so, imo ]? Yes. Does sex happen regularly with kids of that age, and they turn out to be upstanding citizens on the regular? Yes indeed. Yours truly is one.

Do people who hate on EJD's miniseries have other reasons to hate the book? To them, I'm sure that they do. But without the sex scene, their pickings become slim...and that's where the shade that Marvel has thrown TChalla specifically gets extra wicked.

Some argue that they see nothing wrong with Ororo saving TChalla, as the story was told in CC's original script. I see a lot wrong with that. Even back then, TChalla was second in strength only to Captain America...and superior in speed, stealth, acrobatics, quickness, hunting skill, sharpness of senses, technology, and intelligence. He should never have needed rescuing. He should never have needed to engage them himself at all. His underlings could have easily mopped the floor with those henchmen, and Ruyter too. But as kids? Makes sense that TChalla would be more vulnerable to the superhuman Bull than he would be at any time as even a child in his late teens. So would Ororo. I might also remind the EJD mini haters that Ororo DID save TChalla. Against the biggest, baddest bad guy...The Bull himself. And she saved them from dying in a helicopter crash; something TChalla flat out could not do, despite his Wakandan upbringing. She also stopped The Bull, her rival, and their army all by herself. Something else TChalla couldn't do. Who has the biggest victories in the STORM miniseries? Yep. Ororo does. As it should be, imo.

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #282 on: June 30, 2014, 12:38:57 am »
I'm one of the few on this board who openly acknowledges that I liked the STORM miniseries. My kids' mother likes the miniseries. My oldest daughter likes the miniseries [ she's 17 ]. All of her friends who've read my miniseries [ which my daughter took it upon herself to share without asking me to do so ] also like the miniseries.

Many comic fans were repulsed from jumpstreet, though. Did a lot of that repulsion have a lot to do with a combination of ignorance of, disrespect for, and racism and resentment toward Black Panther as the premier Black male superhero in comics?

Yes. There is no denying such. Even when the Storm fans first rushed HEF to besiege us, the inital purpose and interaction was definitely confrontational. And this is on top of the Three Headed Monsters and Lovecrafties of the world.

Okay. Let's look at the EJD sex scene. Because that's the real static that people have.



Is that disrespectful of the characters? No. However, when we project various AMERICAN VALUES upon it, will SOME PEOPLE get offended? Yes, of course.

Are AMERICAN VALUES the operating dominant moral compass of these AFRIKAN HEROES with deeper souls, and of lineagesat least 8000 years older than America is actually operating off of American values? No. There ya are. Stop being Ugly Americans.

 And kill that statutory rape nonsense, because that's not the law in traditional Africa. Stop superimposing Americanized, Westernized morals and ignorance upon a much older and much more mature AFRIKAN NOT AMERICAN civilization. Before that? The people who had already decided to dislike the idea of the book and the marriage and these two characters who are clearly a terrific and nigh perfect match for each other actually could only hang their hat on the rather dubious and essentially substanceless argument that EJD didn't have TChalla get saved by Ororo.

Yeah. The Crown Prince of a civilization that's rockin Top 100 Tech in the galaxy...reeeaaaallllly doesn't need to be saved by a young lady who hasn't yet gotten a grip on her powers yet. Which brings me to this question here. Does the original story reflect the supergenius of TChalla? Would a GROWN ADULT SUPERGENIUS SUPERSTRATEGIST PRINCE of THE GREATEST HUMAN CIVILIZATION IN HUMAN HISTORY actually dress talk and act like this?



Hell naw. That's what's wrong with the whole original story, and that's why the whole original story needs to get retconned.

Would that same princeling on his Walkabout, seeking to hide his actual identity from easy visual determination, blending into the general masses and thus without his hypertech, retinue of servants warriors bodyguards powerful sorcerers etc...[ the Walkabout is an actual tradition in Africa which is similar to one of the Rites of Passage that we celebrate in my own family btw ]...dress and act like THIS, given the time period and the prevalent political climate of the world and Africa?





Yes.

That rendition is much more sensible and realistic.

He doesn't need to be saved by a girl who hasn't gotten a grip on her powers yet. And given the Marvel canon about mutant powers manifesting during the teenage years? That tack taken by EJD rings true, too. However. Once said young lady locks in her powers? Yeah. THE GALAXY needs to be saved by her. THE UNIVERSE TOO. Multiple times. And let's not forget...she saved an entire city, and a whole countryside...inclusive of TChalla...by the end of the book. And clowned her rival. With class, I might add.

She wasn't the slowest zebra anymore.

So yeah. The critics of the EJD miniseries? They all have different reasons for their repulsion...but. Bottom line? I think there's a lot of skipping of a lot of content in the miniseries in order to harp and imo blow out of proportion the sex scene and the fact that TChalla wasn't a D-Lister in need of help from anyone...and at that point in their lives? He SHOULD enjoy a PRONOUNCED advantage over Ororo, until her control of her powers kick in.

None of that stuff I mentioned gets addressed.

Let me tell you something else that the sex scene made clear: Black Love is still threatening to a lot of people in the LCBRD. It wasn't just bad enough that EJD showed that two teenagers who loved each other actually had sex [ because that NEVER happens across the world, across racial ethnic political class cultural and other lines; nope ] what really got their goat was that Ororo was ALSO bangin TChalla in RH's miniseries. Maxine Shaw once had a sig that read: "Ororo, Queen of Wakanda. She's Black AND F#ck!ng" or something to that effect.



And that reality liked to have scoured the flesh off of most people having a problem with The Marriage. Because these two being Black, Afrikan, unbowed, without needing any White character leading anything at all or even being anywhere at all in their general cast, more powerful than any married cape couple in Marvel history, and featured everywhere in the big crossover events...was just too much.

Despite all that shade, EJD still sold in the low to high 20k's. Had the shade been ameliorated even a little? He'd have hit round 40k monthly. And the BP ongoing would have hit even more.

 http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2006/2006-03.html



Was Ororo playing second fiddle in the talks TChalla and Namor had? Nope. Was she less involved in the discussion than TChalla was? Yep. She did not know the real reason that TChalla joined The Avengers, so she couldn't act like she DID know something that SHE DID NOT know. However, it was she...not TChalla...who checked Namor. In Atlantis. In his throne room. And...uh...she was getting infinitely more shine, a much more prominent position, and possessed of far more relevancy MU wide as Queen of Wakanda than at any time she ever spent in the X-books. Literally. Not even CC got close to what Hudlin did for Ororo. Real talk.

This is how THEY introduced Storm:




Not from the unashamed mature humanity embracing body beautiful cultural perspective of Africa, but from the sexually titillating fetishist perspective dominant in the psyche of most White Americans and especially White young to middle age males at the time this pic was crafted.

With Reginald Hudlin...in 6 or so issues...RH had such far reaching impact that Ororo was featured in every major Marvel event and in multiple books that wouldn't even touch her before. At her most popular, under CC's pen? Storm was a NONENTITY outside of the X-books.


Reginald Hudlin, in the space of 6 issues, had Ororo doing more than the X-office had her do in nearly 20 years. When was the last time that Ororo squared off with someone Clor-like?



Yep. The Asgardian Wars. 20 or so years ago. Pause and let that marinate. TWENTY OR SO YEARS AGO. And remember? Loki CLOWNED HER with ONE MOVE. Didn't Claremont write that?  Yes, he did. Under Reginald Hudlin's pen? Storm backs down Iron Man when he shows up at the Wakandan Embassy trying to be a boss.

Under RH's pen, STORM DROPS CLOR WITH A EMP.



Now. Who's being the most appreciative of and respectful to Storm, again? Didn't THIS happen under Chris Claremont?




When you look at the substance of the work of RH and the benefits of Ororo being married to TChalla which afforded other writers the option to use Ororo too. Adn it's clear that everyone knows that Ororo is an equal partner in her marriage with TChalla. McDuffie wrote it...



RH wrote it...



And haters...who didn't read RH's book, mind you, for the most part...hated it with that special intensity that only abysmal ignorance can bring.

Don't forget. For the first time in world comic book history, we see a royal Black superheroic married couple traveling the cosmos WITHOUT having to rely on White folks for anything. We see at last this heterosexual couple frequently on panel together [ seriously, think back. When was the last time that you saw two Black superheroes together forming thee most powerful married couple in comics, both from The Big Two, both deeply in love and constantly shown on the same panel together. Supportive of each other. For not just pages or books but arcs and whole runs? Answer: NEVER EVER. None before RH. None after him ] showing them working together as a team that has not only the power to defeat enemies physically...

[ and you know that I can't pass up the fact that THIS pic giving TCHALLA vastly overdue props got the LCBRD hooowwwwlliiiing with hatred ]:



And THESE got shade, too, although not as much as the previous SS arm bar:










TChalla and Ororo also showed the brilliance resources strategic cunning teamwork and knowhow to pull leverage on powerful extraterrestrial entities

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5VgL6ZXwkaw/RhPANEbqteI/AAAAAAAAB_0/Nq9BXQJ5F4s/s1600/Fantastic%2BFour%2B544-2.JPG


queen Ororo is an equal above and everywhere else. She is NOT a cheerleader. She is NOT second fiddle. And she is presented as NOT being second fiddle by RH and everyone else who respects and "gets" the character.



So let's see. A guy who is in canon being shown having contingency plans to take on Galactus like Black Panther is...



Really ain't worried about Norrin Radd aka Silver Surfer, who owes his power to Galactus.

However, the LCBRD haaaateed on TChalla. Despite his capability in that regard being well well established in canon...buut they are cool with the idea of Hawkeye taking on Ultron



Now. When has Hawkeye EVER shown any aptitude or ability to take on Ultron?

I'm waiting.

Never? Thought so. But Hawkeye taking on Ultron is "cool". TChalla taking on SS is catches shade like the dark side of the moon.

Like sin and Sal said. Most of the static isn't rooted in legit issues dealing with legit characterization and story plot. Most of the rabid backlash comes from deep seated dual desires: to keep Ororo as 'their" exotic wallflower piece unsullied by any Black man, aaand "their" deep discomfort with TChalla because of who and what he is. Especially when a skilled Black scribe is writing him.

Ororo will catch a very similar level of intense shade when she permanently takes herself off of The Fetish Farm and establishes herself as a true Afrikan superhero who is every bit as much a mutant as she is regal, Afrakan, and unconquerable. Like Yost said...she doesn't have to choose between Worlds Apart. She symbolizes Worlds United.

Her LCBRD fanbase though? Not so much.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 05:12:40 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #283 on: June 30, 2014, 12:57:47 am »
Her origin isn't even "hers". It's a shameless and blatant rip-off of Modesty Blaise's.

And pretty much any fictional character can be written to go toe-to-toe with anyone. Storm being constantly pedestaled and propped up as the exotic, token, black, weather based, female, version of Goku, whose-ethnicity-is-really-only-talked-about-to-show-how-bad-practically-all-other-black-people-are-in-contrast-to-her, just makes it easier than most. Which is partly why she's the most "iconic" woman in the MU. Storm is "safe" for the readership.


I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.

Um...since the post I previously wrote wouldn't accomodate these pix...

...here's further proof of Ororo NOT being written as 2nd fiddle to TChalla. By McDuffie...



...by RH



we know of course that in the X-books, Ororo has always been written by the guys there as a paragon of virtue. they would never write anything that remotely smelled of her lacking unshakeable moral integrity, she would always be regal and noble and stuff...



...maybe NOT^^^.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:06:08 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #284 on: June 30, 2014, 02:17:53 am »
And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. Because the fact of the matter is? Pak can write his hindquarters off. For those who have reservations about him writing a Black person? Remember how he just KILT IT on WAR MACHINE.

Pak can do this.

Storm has long needed a series. And we can have the history making happenstance of a Black female lead in her own solo break into the shelves and be profitable. Thus opening up the market for more women of color, and more people PERIOD.

Learn to say YES to good things, people.

A black woman without a black-man? That’s not cultural appreciation. What legacy & who’s legacy is that representing? That's foreign interpretation & manipulation.

 “Power concedes nothing without a demand.”
~ Freddrick Douglas. Who’s demanding that a strong independent black women duke-it-out with other black people & be their savior?

Is it a business move or a passive opportunity to continue to control the image of black characters? They are monopolizing Storm. The idealism/ concepts (of the storm solo ) is already dysfunctional & distorted because it's not speaking to issues facing women of color. Just fan-boys, who don’t want to acknowledge... What doors are opening & who has all the keys... for a black female character? fan-boys... hhhmmmmm

They (the public) wants President Obama to appeal to a broader audience & not just blacks. The fan-boys only want Storm to appeal to them & not broader audiences. Am I right or wrong? Diversity!

Not the same ol’ same. Pak has the right to produce the comic as he sees fit. But when it comes to culture (African / Afro Cuban/ Caribbean) he has to come-up to a cultural standard & responsibility.  Not go down to please his demographic jus to secure sells. i'll wish them well, while I give them hell. Defending our women is our duty. We're fighting with them side by side. The solo has her fighting us. The same way she fought BP. It's a bad start. Skating on thin-ice for sure.     

I just completed a comic about the “Chinese Valentine’s.” I’m black! Do you think I depicted any stereo-typical images or concepts of Asians? 

I'm not trippin' or taking it too seriously. It's just a harsh-critique for an important subject matter. recognize!

« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 02:25:46 am by APEXABYSS »