Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 455787 times)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #285 on: June 30, 2014, 04:11:09 am »
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #286 on: June 30, 2014, 06:20:11 am »
The "Illumination". As usual, a logical, compelling; engaging read. And as is usually the case, I was inclined to walk in lock-step with my Dear Brother, Supreme.  But in this instance, the following pierced the sole of my big flat foot as the thorn into the lion's paw: And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. No, Brother. Not this time.

The HEF, never known as an assembly of monolithic thinkers, seem to have rendered the decision regarding this matter with one voice. Support Storm? Absolutely. Support the Storm ongoing with full knowledge of how writers have portrayed her in the past and with only rhetoric to try to convince us that this time all will be different and this new writer will portray an Ororo...THE Ororo...we haven't seen since the inception of her character? We can't do that "unquestionably", Supreme. We have more answers at this point than we have questions, Brother. History...30 years of consuming the swill of a less than positive, respectable, consistent portrayal of this magnificent character Ororo Munroe with only the brief respite during her reign as Queen of Wakanda...30 years of that mess have convinced most of us beyond any shadow of doubt that where Storm is concerned, where those who write her character are concerned and considering the expectations of the audience - the LCBRD - those writers are trying to appease...we stand convinced that we can only expect more of the same.

We need time, Supreme. Hudlin could have written Storm as well, if not better than this "Pak", but the LCBRD didn't want that "Too Black, Too Strong" version of Storm...a Storm that if that lot had been as open-minded as many HEF members are (I recuse myself  ;)), would have entertained the diverse mass of comicbook fans, not simply the so-called black comicbook fan. But no. The LCBRD...spiced with a bit of black pepper sprinkled in if we are to believe some folks...didn't seem to want this. Hudlin was accused of planning to disgrace Ororo by having her become a member of his "harem" and worse nonsense than that did they spew. The LCBRD and friends were amenable to the images of Ororo in the Arena, in sexually suggestive posture with Yukio, disgraced and imprisoned. T'Challa's "harem" disgusted the LCBRD, but Ororo as just another...what did Jenn call it? "nut bucket" for Logan not only appealed to them; they LUSTED after it.

So now, Storm's "fans" (enablers is what they truly are, Dear Brother),...they come to the HEF asking for our support of this ongoing. I'd rather listen to Tupac than to eminem. I'd rather listen to Little Richard than to Pat Boone. I'd rather listen to Louis Armstrong than I would Bix Beiderbecke and to Chick Webb - the TRUE King of Swing - than I would to Benny Goodman. And I'd have rather read what R. Hudlin could have done with Ororo's character than read what Pak might do with Ororo's character.

We can't support the ongoing "unquestionably", Supreme. Knowing the HEF - and I think I know it well enough - some will purchase the book and share their opinion of what they have read. At that point, with more information and having at least a few questions answered, Storm's fans might be able to expect a softening of opinion and possible support for this ongoing.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 06:27:40 am by sinjection1 »
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Offline Booshman

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #287 on: June 30, 2014, 08:06:18 am »

I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.


It's somewhat obscure, but it's one of my favorite series to come out of UK. The parallels between her origin and Storm's were so obvious, and Claremont flat out admitted that he intentionally copied it. Because he was a fan of the series as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 08:16:18 am by Booshman »

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #288 on: June 30, 2014, 08:21:09 am »

I never even heard of Modesty Blaise before I read this quote.


It's somewhat obscure, but it's one of my favorite series to come out of UK. The parallels between her origin and Storm's were so obvious, and Claremont flat out admitted that he intentionally copied it. Because he was a fan of the series as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modesty_Blaise


Very very good eye, sir. I went to wikipedia to look her up the very first time I read your post, prior to you thoughtfully posting a link to her entry. I liked it. Good work.
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Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #289 on: June 30, 2014, 08:44:28 am »
I just completed a comic about the “Chinese Valentine’s.” I’m black! Do you think I depicted any stereo-typical images or concepts of Asians? 

I'm not trippin' or taking it too seriously. It's just a harsh-critique for an important subject matter. recognize!





...and do you know what would happen if you depicted stereo-typical imagery of Asians?

Anyone remember a television show in the early 90s called 'All American Girl'  starring comedian Margaret Cho?  Korean Americans and Asians in general, thought that the show depicted Asians unfavorably and protested the showrunners so heavily that by the end of the 1st season, the show couldn't get a renewal. 

Of course, none of the accusations were true but that incident should give you an idea of what would happen, APEXABYSS.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #290 on: June 30, 2014, 08:53:01 am »
The "Illumination". As usual, a logical, compelling; engaging read. And as is usually the case, I was inclined to walk in lock-step with my Dear Brother, Supreme.  But in this instance, the following pierced the sole of my big flat foot as the thorn into the lion's paw: And we should imo unquestionably support Storm's new ongoing until we have legit issues with her portrayal and whatnot. No, Brother. Not this time.

The HEF, never known as an assembly of monolithic thinkers, seem to have rendered the decision regarding this matter with one voice. Support Storm? Absolutely. Support the Storm ongoing with full knowledge of how writers have portrayed her in the past and with only rhetoric to try to convince us that this time all will be different and this new writer will portray an Ororo...THE Ororo...we haven't seen since the inception of her character? We can't do that "unquestionably", Supreme. We have more answers at this point than we have questions, Brother. History...30 years of consuming the swill of a less than positive, respectable, consistent portrayal of this magnificent character Ororo Munroe with only the brief respite during her reign as Queen of Wakanda...30 years of that mess have convinced most of us beyond any shadow of doubt that where Storm is concerned, where those who write her character are concerned and considering the expectations of the audience - the LCBRD - those writers are trying to appease...we stand convinced that we can only expect more of the same.

We need time, Supreme. Hudlin could have written Storm as well, if not better than this "Pak", but the LCBRD didn't want that "Too Black, Too Strong" version of Storm...a Storm that if that lot had been as open-minded as many HEF members are (I recuse myself  ;)), would have entertained the diverse mass of comicbook fans, not simply the so-called black comicbook fan. But no. The LCBRD...spiced with a bit of black pepper sprinkled in if we are to believe some folks...didn't seem to want this. Hudlin was accused of planning to disgrace Ororo by having her become a member of his "harem" and worse nonsense than that did they spew. The LCBRD and friends were amenable to the images of Ororo in the Arena, in sexually suggestive posture with Yukio, disgraced and imprisoned. T'Challa's "harem" disgusted the LCBRD, but Ororo as just another...what did Jenn call it? "nut bucket" for Logan not only appealed to them; they LUSTED after it.

So now, Storm's "fans" (enablers is what they truly are, Dear Brother),...they come to the HEF asking for our support of this ongoing. I'd rather listen to Tupac than to eminem. I'd rather listen to Little Richard than to Pat Boone. I'd rather listen to Louis Armstrong than I would Bix Beiderbecke and to Chick Webb - the TRUE King of Swing - than I would to Benny Goodman. And I'd have rather read what R. Hudlin could have done with Ororo's character than read what Pak might do with Ororo's character.

We can't support the ongoing "unquestionably", Supreme. Knowing the HEF - and I think I know it well enough - some will purchase the book and share their opinion of what they have read. At that point, with more information and having at least a few questions answered, Storm's fans might be able to expect a softening of opinion and possible support for this ongoing.


Now, who can argue with this post? Not I.
 
My choice of  may not have been as clear as I wished, so please allow me to clarify.

There is no chance that I in any way think that we should ignore the 30 years written about Storm prior to now, and I include most damningly the LACK of an ongoing solo featuring Storm. And that Arena pic of Storm [ I rebuke the thought and image ]. What Forge did to Storm [ REBUKE REBUKE REBUKE ]. For far too long and in far too many ways, Storm...who, until the arrival of Monica Rambeau and the better writing being done for Misty Knight despite that cornball name...carried the luggage and all the hard work for ALL Black women of the caped community and ALMOST ALL the luggage for Women Of Color in the caped community period point blank. And for far too long and in far too many ways, Storm's portrayal has elicited one long rebuke-fest from yours truly.

Because I am very much aware of how lacking in genuine "Blackness" that Ororo has been since her inception [ she should most definitely have carried the imprint of Afrikan culture in her personality philosophy morality etc far more clearly than she has ] prior to Priest, RH, and McDuffie [ where are our Black women writers for Storm? I said it before and I said it again...I bet Maxine Shaw our Attorney at LOL could write a strong Ororo who would probably get death threats sent to Maxine hahahaha. Gail Simone would bring it with Ororo and so would thee only Black female scribe I have ever heard of in all of comics...can't believe her name escapes me for the nonce...but she would tear it down and not Tyler Perry her, either ], I have cast an eye on Pak's work. This man can write. He writes characters of all colors well. He gave War Machine a distinct voice that is so potent that HIS War Machine is now THEE War Machine, as Priest's BP became the standard bearing work and iconic THEE BP which was built upon and expanded by RH.

Seriously. Given the choice of scribes who could be tapped to write Ororo in a solo ongoing...who is a big name that can write well that we would also not recoil at when cast as Ororo's scribe...and also has the time to devote to such a venture? Besides Pak?

Isn't Warren Ellis tied up right now? [ He wrote da hell outta Ororo for the brief issues that he had her ]. Many of us don't trust Mark Millar with Storm [ and with good reason ]. They won't give Remender a shot, even though he was solid with his depiction of Dr. Voodoo. Even if they could find and motivate him, they won't give Priest [ who leads the pack by far when it comes to writing a Storm that is both regal and accepted by the LCBRD but Black and not a sellout ] a shot because he'd for sure  bring back THEE Ororo, and add tons of missing stuff to her just by fleshing out what is already in canon. That's also why they won't let him rock Sam Wilson aka Falcon. He'd do with them what he did for TChalla. OH NO, MORE TOP FLIGHT BLACK SUPERCAPES, WE CAN'T HAVE THAT!! If Priest had Ororo? You know he'd eventually address that whole TChalla situation, and he'd do it with epic skill and flair. OH NOOOO MORE X-OFFICE SHADE. So nope. That leaves Pak.

This man Pak CAN do it.

And he has a track record which...unlike other writers in the previously mentioned odious decade or so of Ororo's slide and slump into X-Obscurity...gives us something solid to point at when it comes to characters of color [ WAR MACHINE ] and unusual characters with potential but who don't get the shine that they deserve [ HERCULES especially, and he wrote a very good HULK ].

Now. I still say that the real superscribe for Storm is...was...our legendary Octavia Butler. May she Rest In Power.

But given what we have available? We can do A LOT WORSE than Pak. Pak can actually deliver what he promises. He has done so before. So...in the case of Pak I don't believe that we should give him the hairy eyeball without cause drawn from the book itself that he is writing, because he already has a track record of doing the stuff we as a whole like to see in any character, but especially characters of color.

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Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #291 on: June 30, 2014, 09:56:53 am »


...and do you know what would happen if you depicted stereo-typical imagery of Asians?

Anyone remember a television show in the early 90s called 'All American Girl'  starring comedian Margaret Cho?  Korean Americans and Asians in general, thought that the show depicted Asians unfavorably and protested the showrunners so heavily that by the end of the 1st season, the show couldn't get a renewal. 

Of course, none of the accusations were true but that incident should give you an idea of what would happen, APEXABYSS.
Then this show wont last too long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOutgc-GG6g
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #292 on: June 30, 2014, 10:00:00 am »
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #293 on: June 30, 2014, 10:26:42 am »
I'll be doing the same thing. CDisplay
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #294 on: June 30, 2014, 10:32:13 am »
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #295 on: June 30, 2014, 11:02:31 am »
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.

I have perpetual respect for you, Salustrade, and many members of the HEF.

This is just one of the rare issues we will perpetually disagree on. I'll respectfully leave it at that.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #296 on: June 30, 2014, 11:04:12 am »
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.

Your statement is respectfully received and understood.

I will look upon the purchases of those 2 issues as a self-imposed penance.

Too many times I have depended upon your excellent scans and commentary as a means of keeping informed about stories in books I refused to buy myself.

I haven't made a comicbook purchase in well over a year. I suppose I have a few dollars I could throw at the first 2 issues of this book.

I probably would have spent some of that money on losing lottery tickets anyway  ;)
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #297 on: June 30, 2014, 11:23:16 am »
Some many months ago, I remember a discussion in forum, a recurring component of which was the movie Django Unchained. For some reason, I had immediate negative impressions toward the movie and decided against watching it. I have yet to do so. Indicating my reservations regarding the movie but still ready to condemn a movie I had not yet seen, I received gentle admonishment from our Salustrade who wisely counseled that I watch the movie, become properly informed and then render an informed decision.

Not wanting to spend the money to purchase a cheap pre-viewed copy of the movie and not wanting to rent the movie either, I still haven't watched it. Recently however, a person offered to make a loan of the movie to me so that I could watch it.

I respect the HEF. I respect its members. I respect the opinions and decisions by those who have revealed them to us regarding the Storm ongoing. I have the highest regard for Salustrade, which is why the next time I see the person who offered to make loan of Django Unchained to me, I will accept the offer and view the movie. And because I also have the same high regard for Supreme Illuminati I will plan to purchase the first two issues of the Storm ongoing. I would give a new Black Panther ongoing at least one chance. Storm deserves that same chance.

Jut like \i didn't waste my money on buying D'Jango Unchained, I will not be spending a brass farthing on the Storm solo ongoing.

I have better thing to do with my money.

Your statement is respectfully received and understood.

I will look upon the purchases of those 2 issues as a self-imposed penance.

Too many times I have depended upon your excellent scans and commentary as a means of keeping informed about stories in books I refused to buy myself.

I haven't made a comicbook purchase in well over a year. I suppose I have a few dollars I could throw at the first 2 issues of this book.

I probably would have spent some of that money on losing lottery tickets anyway  ;)

Imo brutha sin, you are to be roundly commended and applauded for acting upon the desire to remain possessed of a personally informed opinion of the book Storm in the same way that your keen mind and probing intellect keeps you informed on many other topics.

I recall once, a well respected member of this forum years ago lashed at Priest's BP. He and I went round nad round about the book. And then I asked him how he is able to hold such a passionate opinion about a book he hasn't read and doesn't know about, yet condemn the Lovecrafties of the world who diss RH's book.

He relented. He read the entire CJP BP run. He loved it.

But even if he HATED it, he at least took the time to find out FOR HIMSELF exactly why.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #298 on: June 30, 2014, 12:05:32 pm »
I had no problem with Chris Claremont's depiction of Ororo interceding on T'Challa's behalf in the original 1980's story that chronicled their first meeting.

EJD's re-imagining of that meeting was an unnecessary retcon that did nothing to enhance said meeting but in fact, ended up providing cannon fodder for haters of the marriage to use in taking pot-shots at what Reginald Hudlin went on to accomplish with T'Challa and Ororo moving forward.

Everyone has their own idea as to what constitutes as being great storytelling but in this regard, EJD mesed up royally.

Peace.

I have perpetual respect for you, Salustrade, and many members of the HEF.

This is just one of the rare issues we will perpetually disagree on. I'll respectfully leave it at that.

The respect is mutual my brother.  :)

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #299 on: June 30, 2014, 02:11:29 pm »
The amount of civility and respect you guys display inside HEF is a shining example of how to agree to disagree politely.

There are times I wish I possessed your level of intelligence, gentlemen.

I'm still learning.