Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 675788 times)

Offline Marvelous

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #360 on: July 05, 2014, 08:08:41 pm »
'nuff said.



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Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #361 on: July 06, 2014, 05:12:42 am »
What really doesn't make sense, is that the X-office is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.





Let's try another variation of this thought process:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the politicians in South Carolina is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.
"


Let's try another one:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the White House is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans.
"


...and another one:

"What really doesn't make sense, is that the U.S. Supreme Court is a constantly changing group of people.  The people who are there now are not the same people who were there ten or fifteen years ago,  but the problem is been around for years.

The only people who have actually been around that long are the fans
."

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #362 on: July 06, 2014, 06:25:06 am »

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #363 on: July 06, 2014, 06:32:28 am »
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?


Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #364 on: July 06, 2014, 06:12:34 pm »
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?






First? Never saw those panels. Thanks for sharing them, yo.

Second? That up there is a classic example of writing Ororo down.


Ororo has "near infinite power" at her command, should she wish it.





So if Iron Man can make a Phoenix Buster suit? Ororo can take Pheonix down. If she's written properly.
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Offline Booshman

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #365 on: July 06, 2014, 07:43:45 pm »
Lots of high powered/over the top characters have been written down though. I don't recall Spiderman picking up and throwing trains and buses like they're cardboard boxes anymore.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #366 on: July 06, 2014, 07:48:43 pm »
i had this big long argument about why Phoenix is way beyond Storm but I am not getting into this debate again.   
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 08:04:47 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #367 on: July 06, 2014, 08:08:36 pm »
I can't get behind you guys on Jason Aaron. He may do a good job with T'challa, but he ALWAYS writes down Storm whether its with the X-office or any other office. I can't stand this guy. Keep him as FAR away from Storm as possible.


Ya know, I never considered that he writes down Storm. I remember he wrote Storm leading the sword armed attack that slaughtered the Skrulls. What other instances did he write down Storm? I'm sure they're there if you said they are, I just missed them.


I think that is what he meant by writing her down.   Storm could have turned back the whole invasion alone;  forcing her to fight without powers is holding her back.

Of course people forget his whole premise;  he took away the Skrull and Wakanda tech to make them fight with sticks because he didn't believe Wakanda could beat a fully engaged Skrull army.   And that means he didn't believe Storm could beat Skrull army,  even with Wakanda behind her.   So he took both armies back to prehistoric tech and made the Skrull forget hire to shape shift in combat.

He wrote them smart, tough and deadly but he also wrote them as too weak to beat the Skrull at the hight of their power.

Compare that to Hickman 's invasion.   Thanos forces are more technologically advance and suicidal; Hickman 's Wakanda would have beaten the Skrulls without having to be reduced to sticks.


I did not know that J.A. didn't think that TChalla could beat a top tier Skrull army with all of their tech and superpowers aligned and maxed out.

I think that Wakanda could do such a thing, as they have more resources and abilities than most MU writers have bothered to explore or use.

For instance...remember when we here at HEF first mentioned Wakandan mutants [ and Mark Millar took a flyer from us and specifically had Reed Richards ask TChalla about mutants...and be stonily ignored...during the first Civil War and Illuminati arc? ]. Wakandan mutants, Wakandan sorcery and magic, Wakandan Mystic Vibranium, Wakandan tech, the Wakandans themselves [ in truth Wakanda's weakest citizens would equate to low genius level intellect+ an "average Olympian"  combo in other parts of the world ]...including the Gorilla Cult, the whole Royal Family inclusive of capes like The Crew [ I renamed them the NGUVU ITHOBO roughly translating to "Strong Warrior Squadron" ] and The Black Musketeers [ who as TChalla's cousins and half brother, I renamed them the KSH...the Kefalme Shujaa Heshima "The Royal Warriors Of Honor" ], the whole arsenal of hundreds of powerful Wakandan sorcerors [ not just Zawaviri--dang it, I forget dude's name--and Mendinao ], Hunter ,the Hatut Zeraze the Midnight Angels the Dora Milaje, the entire Order of TPG and even enemies like Killmonger and Achebe as NOBODY wants to see Wakanda fallen to space aliens...all of them would band together.

Plus? TChalla still has resources like THE NOWHERE ROOM that nobody else has.

Wakandans routinely face the various homegrown shapeshifters that litter the traditional magic landscape of Africa and Wakanda. TChalla has encountered The Skrulls several times and studied them...without the converse being true.

The Ultimate Prep Beast in the MU would defeat The Skrulls. And that's without Storm there.

Storm? She's one RogueStorm from ruling star spanning empires...or destroying them.

So yeah.


Really?






First? Never saw those panels. Thanks for sharing them, yo.

Second? That up there is a classic example of writing Ororo down.


Ororo has "near infinite power" at her command, should she wish it.





So if Iron Man can make a Phoenix Buster suit? Ororo can take Pheonix down. If she's written properly.
i had this big long argument about why Phoenix is way beyond Storm but I am not getting into this debate again.


I never saw the panels that you refer to. Dark Phoenix fades Eternity, huh? That's SERIOUS.

Seems like there's canon for both women doing incredible things...because Storm...as regular nonRoguestorm Storm...housed the very essence of Eternity within her being. Dr. Strange has the power to do the same.

Therefore, whoever wins in a throwdown between them will be dependent upon the writer of their throwdown.

Not surprised, are we?
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Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #368 on: July 06, 2014, 08:34:34 pm »
 Stopping myself from debating. .. just barely. ..
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 08:47:05 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Marvelous

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #369 on: July 06, 2014, 09:08:59 pm »
Stopping myself from debating. .. just barely. ..

I hear ya...  ;)


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a) An idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about.
b) A liar who is a fan who can't admit it to himself or others."

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #370 on: July 07, 2014, 07:27:43 am »
The longer this debate goes on, the more certain I am that it was probably a mistake to give Storm a solo series in the first place.

Batman's parents were killed by criminals, so Batman goes after crime and criminals.

Captain America was created to fight the Nazis, so that is why he goes after enemies of freedom.

Green Lantern got his alien space cop ring from an alien space cop so's he could take his place as an alien space cop.

But Storm was living on a moutaintop in Kenya when some bald dude (how did the Professor get his wheelchair up there anyway?) asked her to join his strike force and she actually joined him instead of laughing his face like a reasonable person would have done.

Without a premise for adventure baked into the character's backstory the writer will be forced to resort to write Storm stories as solo Xmen ("Storm has to fight Mr. Sinister! Without the Xmen!! BY HERSELF!!!") or the Storm goes back to Africa("Storm returns to Africa to bring a vicious Warlord to justice!" stuff that so many resent.

O.K I guess there's the third option of making her Captain Planet with boobs where she flies around the world beating up polluters ("Roxxon/British Petrolium! face the wrath of Storm!").

At least option 1 involves stories that the Xfandom might care about. The others don't even offer that.

I can't be mad at Pak. What the hell can he or anybody else do with Storm given the character's limitations?

And now we have people swearing up and down that she is too powerful to be doing any of that stuff.

Which doesn't make her any more interesting, by the way.

At least if Storm was depowered her solo book could be a Modesty Blaise ripoff that would work as a companion piece with Marvel's other Modesty Blaise ripoff book, Black Widow.

And since that Black Widow book is actually REALLY GOOD (reformed amoral spy now uses her amoral spy tactics to do good deeds-see how actually having a premise works?) being in the same class could only help.

In the book's defense, Storm does have a name writer and a great artist that I've never heard of.

Maybe that will be enough.

 
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 07:31:38 am by Vic Vega »

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #371 on: July 07, 2014, 09:32:16 am »
Couple of things I'm going to say here:

1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman. Essentially, in her solo title, she's going to be going around the globe stopping natural disasters, toppling corrupt governments and fighting for the underdog where she sees them. In doing so, she's going to foster good will between mutants and humans with her actions. He states in interviews, "How can you hate mutants when you have superhero going around doing what Storm is going to be doing in her book?"

2) Regarding Storm's power levels, it really depends on who is writing her. Storm, from her beginnings, has the potential to wield limitless power. Under Claremont, her power was limited only by the force of her will/spirit and strength of her body. As a matter of fact, in just about all of her handbook entries, this is stated. Given Storm has the strength of will and spirit to house the essence of Eternity (a feat that would kill even the Silver Surfer) and a TON of other feats she has demonstrating an "indomitable will" combined with her potential to transcend her human body into an actual goddess, there is essentially no limits to her power. When given her full credit and not written down, the only thing that is limiting her power is her human flesh and blood form. Not only does the "Roguestorm" arc prove that Storm will transcend her humanity, but the "Twelve" story arc also shows this. It was revealed in that arc that Storm will potentially go through many evolutions shedding one evolution form after another. When all the other X-Men are old and all, if Storm reaches this potential, she would still be a young-looking elemental being/goddess.  Keep in mind that her abilities enable her to perceive stars, planets and empty space as patterns of energy and forces she can bend to her will. Now, imagine an evolved Storm being able to do this with no limits whatsoever to her power IF she works towards her full potential. Just because she has the potential to evolve doesn't mean that its something she will necessarily want to develop, though. She has the ability to power herself up by drawing upon the life force of heavenly bodies. We saw a regular, non-full potential Storm use this ability to summon the full power of an entire galactic core (millions of stars and planets crammed into a relatively small space).  In the galactic core story, she became a star that was the sum of millions of stars and planets. She has been able to wield energy on a powerful enough scale to defeat the Trion in their own home dimension. The Trion were three supreme beings that were the forces of an entire reality personified. They were the sum of that entire realities past, present and future. They were the gods of that dimension, yet Storm's power were able to adapt to control those same forces when she was taken to that dimension and we got to see how insanely powerful she was in that fight. She rarely cuts up like this and we aren't even talking a full potential Storm, yet look at her feats already!

The Roguestorm story is a complete parallel between Roguestorm and Dark Phoenix. Both characters had evolved beyond all comprehension, both had the near-infinite power, etc. Claremont touched up on Storm's ability to transcend humanity in an issue of "X-Treme X-Men" when she told Thunderbird 3 that she was "not a goddess yet, but had the potential within her to transcend her humanity."

When Claremont gave Jean Grey the Phoenix Force, he did so to boost her powers to Storm's levels. He stated on comixfan that back in the day, Storm and Phoenix Force Jean Grey were essentially equal in power and, in his mind, held each other in check. Difference is, with Jean, that power went out of control and she became Dark Phoenix. We all know what happened to her, then. Even going back to earlier interviews from the late 70s show that Claremont saw the two women, Storm and Phoenix Force Jean Grey, as pretty much equal in terms of power. I can repost one of those interviews here. Even in terms of feats, we saw this. When Phoenix fought Firelord, she battled him with blasts backed by the power of stars. A few issues earlier, when Storm fought a sentinel in space, she attacked said sentinel with a solar wind attack backed by the full power of a star. Storm would at times be written more powerfully than Phoenix in a story and sometimes Phoenix moreso than Storm. Both women's power levels would be adjusted to fit the needs of the story in the writer's mind. What comes to mind here is circa Uncanny 113 where the X-Men battled Magneto. Storm was written more powerfully than Phoenix in that story as she, Storm, was the only X-Man written with the power levels to defeat Magneto in that story arc. The only reason she lost to Magneto is because she held back. Phoenix, on the other hand, lost to Magneto flat out because she didn't quite have enough power to win. Phoenix's powers were scaled down in this story to rival those of Xavier's. On the other hand, when the team battled Firelord in an earlier issue, Phoenix was written in that story more powerfully than Storm.

One of the things that has me really excited about Pak writing the "Storm" book is states in interviews flatly that Storm is the most powerful female character in the MU with the power to go toe-to-toe with any of Marvel's big guns. From what has been put out, he intends to pit Storm against gods, mutants and regular humans. The editor of the book, Daniel Ketchum, told Pak to write a list of big feats that he, Pak, would like to see Storm do with her powers so they can try and fit them in the stories. This book has been Pak's dream to write for YEARS and he has not been shy in letting Marvel know this over the years either. Ketchum, by all accounts, is also a HUGE Storm-obsessed fan. Pak wants to make Storm THE iconic superhero of Marvel Comics. I think this is AWESOME, not only as a huge Storm fan myself, but to see a Black character elevated to this stature is wonderful! I'm rooting for Pak to be successful in his endeavors with this book.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 10:09:23 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #372 on: July 07, 2014, 03:58:28 pm »
Without a premise for adventure baked into the character's backstory the writer will be forced to resort to write Storm stories as solo Xmen ("Storm has to fight Mr. Sinister! Without the Xmen!! BY HERSELF!!!") or the Storm goes back to Africa("Storm returns to Africa to bring a vicious Warlord to justice!" stuff that so many resent.

O.K I guess there's the third option of making her Captain Planet with boobs where she flies around the world beating up polluters ("Roxxon/British Petrolium! face the wrath of Storm!").

At least option 1 involves stories that the Xfandom might care about. The others don't even offer that.

I can't be mad at Pak. What the hell can he or anybody else do with Storm given the character's limitations?

And now we have people swearing up and down that she is too powerful to be doing any of that stuff.

Which doesn't make her any more interesting, by the way.






True.

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #373 on: July 07, 2014, 06:23:55 pm »
I give a 10 for that style of goal post moving

If this book gets canned the finger pointing will break the internet

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #374 on: July 07, 2014, 06:51:00 pm »
Quote
1) What Pak's goal is with the "Storm" ongoing is to make Storm the Marvel equivalent of DC's Superman.
Decided not to read any further once I have noticed that.
With these choices, I felt that the American black man only needed to choose which one to get eaten by; the liberal fox or the conservative wolf because both of them will eat him.