New Storm Ongoing Title

[Salustrade]

I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.

What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.

[moneyspider]

Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.

Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

[moneyspider]

Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

In this topic alone I've seen two flattering/positive images of Storm; one included in a post by Marvelous, the other in a post by Apexabyss. Then there are the unlettered page preview for the ongoing featuring Ororo dispatching a cadre of armed men with frightfully-impressive ease. This last may get at the conundrum which gives rise to your observation: the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life. This statement is part fallacy and part fact.

Speaking for myself and from what I've observed: "...the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther..." I respectfully disagree. From a character's standpoint - general appearance, powerset and potential - I would feel confident in saying Storm is favorably regarded by the HEF. "..., only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did,..." Yes and ...not yes  I think that when some of us have posted something suggesting that Ororo was a "nut bucket", or seeming to ridicule her by name for sitting in the little chair beside the large, imposing desk of authority where Wolverine was sitting, we weren't showing a dislike for Storm or blaming her directly for beginning sexual relations with Logan almost immediately after her annulled MARRIAGE or for showing something of a subservience by sitting in the small chair rather than the big desk. Referring to Ororo as if she were entirely to blame for this foolishness was something like a "shorthand method" of saying what we really thought and what comprises the "yes" portion of your statement. We weren't blaming Storm. She's a fictional comicbook character who exists because writers, editors, and illustrators bring her to life. We are therefore, blaming the writers, editors, and illustrators for the things we dislike in their depiction of Storm's character.

So, to the conundrum I mentioned earlier. There are those who looking at how easily Storm dispatched that armed force confronting her in the preview pages would regard those images as powerful and positive images of Storm's character. Then there are those of US who see this confrontation as a continuation of the x-writer's preference where Storm's interaction with black people - and black males in particular - is concerned. One person's treasured positive image of Ororo in action is another person's trashy negative image of white writer's depicting Ororo beating the hell out of black men yet another time.

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office,

Yes it does, and quite nicely too.

but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create,

I wouldn't put it past a smarty-pants writer who might happen to look in on the HEF from time to time and who upon viewing any negative image and accompanying derisive commentary to decide to troll us a bit by injecting more of the very type of activity we find distasteful into his/her stories. How many heterosexual black male mutants survive in the x-verse? How many of those enjoy exposure or a relationship with a female? How many bisexual or heterosexual black males have we seen in the x-verse while black female mutants like Joanna Cargill and Monet St Croix crave the attention of white male mutants? Do you remember what happened between Quentin Quire and the black male mutant "Slick"? Do you remember what "Slick's" girlfriend's reaction was after that incident?


Now, is it really fair to ask us to play nice with people who want to play us?

I don't really know anything about Quentin Quire, other than Marvel paired him up romantically with a black woman.

And as for playing nice, I don't recall actually using the phrase "playing nice" with Marvel...I believe all I have been saying is we have to have an open dialogue with Marvel at all times if we want them to start portraying non-white characters respectfully. I certainly have not been "nice" when I contact Marvel...in fact, I've often times been quite pissed off while writing to them, but I do believe that we do need to maintain professionalism when addressing Marvel so that they take us more seriously, just like we would want to be addressed respectfully and professionally if we worked at companies and customers were complaining to us about our products or our treatment of something they wanted.

[moneyspider]

I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.

What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.

I've also come to the terms that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist, but if we don't do anything to try and change that, then nothing is going to change and if comic books continue to exist, the generations that come AFTER us are going to be facing the exact same problems WE are facing right now.

And it's not just about US, it's about our kids and grandkids, etc. who might want to read comic books and will have to face the SAME EXACT fight we are facing now, because we didn't try and do anything to change things for the better.

By doing NOTHING except complaining on message boards, than constantly looking around for ways in which Marvel wronged non-white characters and non-white readers, we aren't doing anything constructive at all.

This is us:

Marvel pisses us off, we complain but do nothing, thus paving the way for Marvel to keep pissing us off. Then we pissed off at Marvel again because they pissed us off again because we paved the way for them to piss us off again.

We have been in this cycle for years, and it never gets us ANYWHERE. We're stuck because we do absolutely nothing of significance.

If we think that the people at Marvel (and DC) are going to wake up one day and suddenly say to themselves "Gee, we really need to stop being racist and treating non-white characters like crap!", that's most likely not going to happen. They will continue to push their pro-white, anti-non-white attitudes, beliefs and practices for as long as they are allowed to get away with it (as long as WE allow them to get away with it).

Since we all DO want change, we are going to have to FIGHT for it. If we don't put up a constant fight, then we will never win.

But a lot of us aren't even TRYING.

[Salustrade]

I send Marvel Entertainment positive images of black people every chance I get.

What does this achieve exactly? It does nothing. I refuse to even attempt to get on a bus where I am not wanted. I would rather walk. Based on what they have done historically I'm good.

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I'm a very positive person in my personal life.

However, I've come to terms with the fact that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist and as such, I expect nothing more from them other than the rubbish they've pushed for decades that denigrates anything that isn't lily white are Oreo'd.

I've also come to the terms that the mainstream comic book business is institutionally racist, but if we don't do anything to try and change that, then nothing is going to change and if comic books continue to exist, the generations that come AFTER us are going to be facing the exact same problems WE are facing right now.

And it's not just about US, it's about our kids and grandkids, etc. who might want to read comic books and will have to face the SAME EXACT fight we are facing now, because we didn't try and do anything to change things for the better.

By doing NOTHING except complaining on message boards, than constantly looking around for ways in which Marvel wronged non-white characters and non-white readers, we aren't doing anything constructive at all.

This is us:

Marvel pisses us off, we complain but do nothing, thus paving the way for Marvel to keep pissing us off. Then we pissed off at Marvel again because they pissed us off again because we paved the way for them to piss us off again.

We have been in this cycle for years, and it never gets us ANYWHERE. We're stuck because we do absolutely nothing of significance.

If we think that the people at Marvel (and DC) are going to wake up one day and suddenly say to themselves "Gee, we really need to stop being racist and treating non-white characters like crap!", that's most likely not going to happen. They will continue to push their pro-white, anti-non-white attitudes, beliefs and practices for as long as they are allowed to get away with it (as long as WE allow them to get away with it).

Since we all DO want change, we are going to have to FIGHT for it. If we don't put up a constant fight, then we will never win.

But a lot of us aren't even TRYING.

And I agree with you 100% on most everything you've said in this post but harnessing BP enthusiasts to get together to make a concerted effort on anything, has proven to be something quite difficult.

I know for a fact, that you've been one of the most consistent and determined posters across both forums, who's been steadfast in support of the Marriage of the Century and for that, you'll always have my respect and appreciation.

Unfortunately, some of our fellow "enthusiasts" aren't exactly what I would describe as being reliable brothers in arms, with some seeming to be more invested in siding with the contingent of X-fans self identified as avowed BP haters, against BP enthusiasts who refuse to be insulted and bullied to a greater extent on CBR and to a somewhat lesser degree over her on the HEF.

These are the 5th columnists who are always quick to raise false "alarms" that (at least over on CBR) attract undue Mod attention resulting in the eventual truncation or derailment of BP related threads.

[sinjection1]

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

[Salustrade]

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

That's what happens when you have a bunch of Benedict Arnold's masquerade as BP fans.

[supreme illuminati]

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

Much respect...but I think Marvel would respond more favorably to their black fans if instead of sending them a steady flow of positive images of blacks, we black fans rewarded any positive change in the portrayal of black characters and characters of color with our greenbacks.

I believe we had the best chance to do this by supporting Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER with Storm as Queen of Wakanda.

We see how that turned out.

That's what happens when you have a bunch of Benedict Arnold's masquerade as BP fans.

I bluntly stated the essence of both sentiments back on HEF 1.0. years ago. Right after RH BP #1 hit the stands and I had that run in with that over the top CAPTAIN AMERICA fan...and had to slang him up outside my LCS.

[Mad Coco G]

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo,

I know I heard you the first time, what you don't get is I don't care that you are

and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR

You say those words but you don't know what they mean

you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I do understand the thing is YOU do not know how to handle them because you're method send the powers that be the wrong method

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years.

Of course you haven't as instead you've chosen the route of the uppity poster who likes to post about how much above the so called "bickering" masses by telling us repeatedly how he likes both characters and it would be great if others would act civilized and follow the example laid forth

That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

See what I mean

And I'm not talking down to anyone

Oh course you wouldn't believe you would, there's no class in that

I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth.

Aka looking down at others because they don't follow your style

If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me.

No it just says you're ducking the fact that you got caught, I'd say I'm soprry for knocking you off your high horse but I'm not

Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying.

I don't feel victamized by you or anything you said, now you're just over compensating and seeing things that aren't there. I give you a C- more the deflect effort

If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

I'm sure you are as you sit up there on your high horse, so classy you be

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

See that is what passive aggressive is and I've actually done a whole lot unlike you who keeps buying the bs all the while "telling" Marvel that they need to do better. What you don't realize is that by buying the bs you're telling Marvel that you like the bs and see no wrong in it as money talks louder then words which means that Marvel heard your money but not a single word you said and you know what I've been doing is the exact opposite of that aka I "talk" to Marvel but they damn sure don't see my $$$.

I haven't seen any positive portrayal of any men of color in any x-book and I damn sure have not seen any positive portrayal of Storm so why in the world would I give Marvel my money in support of that? Oh but apparently according to your very logic we no matter what gotta support black characters no matter what cause you know.....they be black which falls in line with a lot of the dumb asses seen over a cbr. That isn't asking for change that's asking for the same old bullsh*t and then getting mad( just like you're doing right now ) when others don't fall in line aka refusing to have class

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm

No I kick the truth at those "fans" who refuse to actually pay attention which at this moment in time is.....YOU

but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther.

At least I do something, I could be like you who just sits back and does nothing but lament about all the woes of the fandom like a soap opera actor

In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

Of course you would see me as the hypocrite as it makes it easier for you to sit on the sidelines as you again sit on your high horse and try to educate the masses. It makes it easier for you to sit there and believe what you're doing is right when in fact as I said earlier YOU are the hypocrite as you sit there on the side doing nothing all the while giving Marvel your money and then complaining about it thinking that you're changing something while you point at me saying I'm the one who's against change, I'm the one who's harmful to everyone, I'm the reason why "so & so's book got cancelled" because it's easier to take in then the cold hard truth that again YOU are indeed the hypocrite, YOU are the reason no one takes said black character seriously, YOU are the reason they can get away with it over and over

[Blanks]

If we all were in the room together that would be the moment where  the mic would be dropped.

[Salustrade]

Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.

Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not sure how I missed this post but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Any "venom that's being spewed at Storm" should be seen as justified dissaproval aimed squarely at the current arbiters of her character within the X-books as well as the so-called fans who have been more than happy to sit back while her character has been systematically slutted out and generally made to look like a straight up fool within said X-books post AvX.

Practically all of the BP enthusiasts that I know on and offline, celebrated Ororo' awesomness and elevated importance within the 616 MU under Reginald Hudlin's pen and saw her as a solid counterpoint to T'Challa as a olidly humanizing character who was never afraid to steer her husband in the right direction.

We revered her character and loved what both Hudlin and McDuffie did with the Royal Couple across the Black Panther and Fantastic Four books that both of these magnificent writers were responible for writing at the time.

Mr Hudlin had Ororo being a total BOSS putting Tony Stark and Reed Richards in their respective places during the Marvel Civil War long before some X-Wankster had her mouthing this "X-Men are elite" BS recently, so let's not get too carried away here.

I personally hate X-related product and the office that spews forth the X-related filth that stinks up and derails every other part of the 616 MU that it touches.

I see the X-Office as being a hotbed of creators who are virulently anti the positive portrayal of Black heterosexual characters (specifically Black males) and definitely anti-Black heteroexual relationship and as such, I have zero time for anyone championing the support of product that disrepects things that I personally feel very trongly about.

Genki Sudo (like yourself) is consistent and forthright with his opinions on the way Storm has been handled and like myself, remains resolute in not giving Marvel any monies spent on product that blatantly disrespects us with each and every publication that emanates from within the X-office.

He is no hypocrite.

[moneyspider]

Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.

Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not sure how I missed this post but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Any "venom that's being spewed at Storm" should be seen as justified dissaproval aimed squarely at the current arbiters of her character within the X-books as well as the so-called fans who have been more than happy to sit back while her character has been systematically slutted out and generally made to look like a straight up fool within said X-books post AvX.

Practically all of the BP enthusiasts that I know on and offline, celebrated Ororo' awesomness and elevated importance within the 616 MU under Reginald Hudlin's pen and saw her as a solid counterpoint to T'Challa as a olidly humanizing character who was never afraid to steer her husband in the right direction.

We revered her character and loved what both Hudlin and McDuffie did with the Royal Couple across the Black Panther and Fantastic Four books that both of these magnificent writers were responible for writing at the time.

Mr Hudlin had Ororo being a total BOSS putting Tony Stark and Reed Richards in their respective places during the Marvel Civil War long before some X-Wankster had her mouthing this "X-Men are elite" BS recently, so let's not get too carried away here.

I personally hate X-related product and the office that spews forth the X-related filth that stinks up and derails every other part of the 616 MU that it touches.

I see the X-Office as being a hotbed of creators who are virulently anti the positive portrayal of Black heterosexual characters (specifically Black males) and definitely anti-Black heteroexual relationship and as such, I have zero time for anyone championing the support of product that disrepects things that I personally feel very trongly about.

Genki Sudo (like yourself) is consistent and forthright with his opinions on the way Storm has been handled and like myself, remains resolute in not giving Marvel any monies spent on product that blatantly disrespects us with each and every publication that emanates from within the X-office.

He is no hypocrite.

I disagree, and I stand by my assessment of him.

[BmoreAkuma]

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Why should I waste my time sending “positive photos” where I can purchase books from other writers and artists whom are doing it already? For example Ericka Alexander

Money talks and it will always be the determining factor. Your pictures have no power no weight to change their minds. Just google black relationships and you will see people angry at each other. Do I like the sight of it? No of course not. But at the same I am not going to bark at the moon. I would rather create the power base to discredit these images. Take your dollar elsewhere to people whom are already doing the work.

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Does posting positive images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more positivity? To think that only a “picture” creates some type of power for anyone to realize this isn’t good enough. Create the power and take the so called “trillion” spending dollars elsewhere.

Let’s say we take out the hammer, we suddenly have one of the few “mainstream” black couples fighting each other. Depending on the writer they were in love or hated each other. Why should I as a consumer continue to pay money for something like that? No

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

While you’re doing that, you’re ignoring some writers and companies that are doing that already. We as a base should make them work to get our support, not the other way around.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

Complain? That is a wasted emotion. Instead I won’t and of course more will continue to purchase more and more and complain in why Marvel isn’t doing their part.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen in terms of how non-white characters are portrayed.

For over 75 years they haven’t shown any true sense of characterization of PoC. Not even 3D characters. It is either they are Sidney Poitier or John Shaft; there is no middle ground.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can. Even if we don't like the current direction in which non-white characters are being taken, we could still try to support these non-white characters and demand that they be taken in better directions, directions in which non-white characters aren't pitted against other non-white characters and have non-white comic book readers bashing fictional black women every chance they get.

That is called insanity sir. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I actually agree with you 100% however mailing pictures isn’t it. The changes are out there already as it is.

Midnight Tiger

[Salustrade]

Instead of continuously posting images of Storm getting bashed in the face with Valkyrie's hammer and continuously posting negative images of Storm that we can just about all AGREE ON that these were not good looks for her character, can we PLEASE START POSTING POSITIVE IMAGES OF STORM?

The continuous posting of negative images just reinforces everything we see as wrong with the X-Office, but the more these negative images are continuously posted, the more negativity they will create, and the more these negative images invite the vocal bashing of Storm in this thread and several other threads on this site. I can understand the critiques and criticisms of how her character has been handled by various white writers and editors in the past, but a lot of this is still teetering in the territory of bashing Storm as though she is a real flesh-and-blood woman who made her own bizarre life choices as opposed to several white writers and several white editors MAKING her go down the paths they have shown her embarking on.

This is one of the MAIN problems with how Africans and African Americans are depicted...there are way too many negative images of us being floated around and posted, and there aren't enough POSITIVE images or depictions of us continuously being posted.

Instead if us gleefully posting images of Storm (a fictional African woman) getting her ass kicked, perhaps we should refrain from doing that, because we sure wouldn't be gleefully posting images of Black Panther (a fictional African man) getting his ass kicked, and laughing about it.

I think I've said this before, but the Black Panther fan base is slowly but surely becoming just like the many Storm fans who dislike Black Panther, only a lot of the Black Panther fan base seems to dislike Storm because of stuff that past WRITERS and EDITORS did, and not because of something that the CHARACTERS actually did themselves, as though they are real people in real life.

I think the amount of venom spewed from both fan bases (against the other fan base's favorite character) over the years over CHARACTERS WHO DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST is atrocious and doesn't help or solve anything...it just makes matters worse.

Meanwhile those who like to say they're fans of both like to try and talk down to everybody else while supporting current writers and editors who like the folks before them ain't worth a damn either and neither is this character who's only significance now that we are to "see as golden and what makes a character awesome" is a mohawk and the ability to electrocute folks with a tan


Storm aka the comic book version of Condi Rice

Yes, I am a fan of both, Genki Sudo, and if you weren't so busy being so damn passive-aggressive in nearly all of your posts on here and CBR you would probably learn a lot of things about how readers SHOULD handle Marvel whenever they have complaints against the company, or any comic book company that is not handling non-white characters they way they should be handled.

I don't and never have bought into this whole "Black Panther fans vs. Storm fans" bullsh*t that has permeated various websites for years. That kind of mentality serves no useful purpose and just shows how we need to start acting like adults instead of "choosing sides."

And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm speaking from my heart with what I feel is the truth. If you think I'm talking down to you, than that says a lot more about you than it does me. Don't blame me if you feel like you are being victimized by what I'm saying. If anything, I'm trying to help not only me but you and everyone else, to try and get us all to do what we need to do.

But as usual you have chosen to express negativity, pessimism and outright stubborness while actually doing nothing to change anything.

And YOU are one of the posters who likes to spew venom at Storm, but would hop on your "Hooligan" bandwagon if anyone spewed venom at Black Panther. In my eyes, that makes you a hypocrite.

I'm not sure how I missed this post but here are my thoughts on the subject.

Any "venom that's being spewed at Storm" should be seen as justified dissaproval aimed squarely at the current arbiters of her character within the X-books as well as the so-called fans who have been more than happy to sit back while her character has been systematically slutted out and generally made to look like a straight up fool within said X-books post AvX.

Practically all of the BP enthusiasts that I know on and offline, celebrated Ororo' awesomness and elevated importance within the 616 MU under Reginald Hudlin's pen and saw her as a solid counterpoint to T'Challa as a olidly humanizing character who was never afraid to steer her husband in the right direction.

We revered her character and loved what both Hudlin and McDuffie did with the Royal Couple across the Black Panther and Fantastic Four books that both of these magnificent writers were responible for writing at the time.

Mr Hudlin had Ororo being a total BOSS putting Tony Stark and Reed Richards in their respective places during the Marvel Civil War long before some X-Wankster had her mouthing this "X-Men are elite" BS recently, so let's not get too carried away here.

I personally hate X-related product and the office that spews forth the X-related filth that stinks up and derails every other part of the 616 MU that it touches.

I see the X-Office as being a hotbed of creators who are virulently anti the positive portrayal of Black heterosexual characters (specifically Black males) and definitely anti-Black heteroexual relationship and as such, I have zero time for anyone championing the support of product that disrepects things that I personally feel very trongly about.

Genki Sudo (like yourself) is consistent and forthright with his opinions on the way Storm has been handled and like myself, remains resolute in not giving Marvel any monies spent on product that blatantly disrespects us with each and every publication that emanates from within the X-office.

He is no hypocrite.

I disagree, and I stand by my assessment of him.

Fair enough.

But if he doesn't spend money on products he feels uncomfortable with how does that make him a hypocrite?

[Salustrade]

You are ASSUMING it does nothing. Have you ever tried it? If you did try it and you didn't get immediate results, you have to realize that the changes are not going to be immediate because we are battling DECADES of racist behaviors, racist ideas and racist attitudes, so the change WE WANT is not going to happen overnight.

If you DIDN'T try it, then how are you qualified to sit there and assume it won't achieve anything?

Why should I waste my time sending “positive photos” where I can purchase books from other writers and artists whom are doing it already? For example Ericka Alexander

Money talks and it will always be the determining factor. Your pictures have no power no weight to change their minds. Just google black relationships and you will see people angry at each other. Do I like the sight of it? No of course not. But at the same I am not going to bark at the moon. I would rather create the power base to discredit these images. Take your dollar elsewhere to people whom are already doing the work.

Does posting negative images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more negativity? Continuously posting negative images of fictional black women getting hit with hammers is not going to create positivity, because how would it?

Does posting positive images of black people on message boards achieve anything, other than more positivity? To think that only a “picture” creates some type of power for anyone to realize this isn’t good enough. Create the power and take the so called “trillion” spending dollars elsewhere.

Let’s say we take out the hammer, we suddenly have one of the few “mainstream” black couples fighting each other. Depending on the writer they were in love or hated each other. Why should I as a consumer continue to pay money for something like that? No

Sending positive imagery of black people to Marvel will get THEM used to seeing positive images if black people, and if THEY continue seeing positive images of black people on a CONTINUOUS basis, then HOPEFULLY change will come for the better for all non-white readers, because hopefully Marvel will get the hint and start portraying ALL non-white fictional characters in the same way that they feature the majority of their white fictional characters...IN THE BEST WAY POSSIBLE.

While you’re doing that, you’re ignoring some writers and companies that are doing that already. We as a base should make them work to get our support, not the other way around.

But I realize all of this requires FAITH, POSITIVITY and OPTIMISM, which a lot of people in the comic book reading-public and a lot of people on message boards DO NOT HAVE, because their first immediate reaction is to be pessimistic and always expect the worst, but keep complaining when the worst happens because they refuse to do what is necessary to TRY and change things for the better.

Complain? That is a wasted emotion. Instead I won’t and of course more will continue to purchase more and more and complain in why Marvel isn’t doing their part.

It's always easy to be pessimistic, and negative, and to assume the worst, and to assume such-and-such method to try and change things for the better won't work, and to assume reaching out to companies to express our displeasure won't work, and to laugh and ridicule fictional black women for the ways in which they are written by white men and handled by white editors, but it requires a lot more patience, dedication, perseverance and a tough, unwielding, relentless mindset to do the dirty work and do what actually needs to be done in order for POSITIVE, PERMANENT changes to the comic book industry to happen in terms of how non-white characters are portrayed.

For over 75 years they haven’t shown any true sense of characterization of PoC. Not even 3D characters. It is either they are Sidney Poitier or John Shaft; there is no middle ground.

It seems that it's always easier for a lot of people to spew hatred and venom at fictional black characters (male or female, for a variety of reasons) then to band together and support as many fictional black characters as they can. Even if we don't like the current direction in which non-white characters are being taken, we could still try to support these non-white characters and demand that they be taken in better directions, directions in which non-white characters aren't pitted against other non-white characters and have non-white comic book readers bashing fictional black women every chance they get.

That is called insanity sir. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

The overall big picture is, if you want things to change, then you have to BE THE CHANGE and do what's necessary to change things instead of bickering, snickering, spewing hatred for fictional black women when we all know the same would NOT be done for a majority of fictional black men. Constantly complaining on message boards to people WHO ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE changes nothing...it just reminds comic book readers what the problems are and just keeps feeding negativity. It's more logical to CONSTANTLY COMPLAIN TO THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ACTUALLY CONSTANTLY CAUSING THE PROBLEMS.

I actually agree with you 100% however mailing pictures isn’t it. The changes are out there already as it is.

Midnight Tiger

Awesome post.