Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 530270 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #735 on: July 27, 2014, 03:30:22 pm »
For all of this fist shaking invective, books that HAVE Black creators like Rat Queens, Vescell, Five Weapons, Midnight Tiger, Miranda Mercury and my personal favorite Molly Danger can barely get a mention around here.

That's  in addition to our own Redjack's Knight Rider and Airwolf comics.

You could even donate to the Kick starter for the second volume of Watson and Holmes. Or order the Volume one trade if you are against donating to business ventures (or online begging if you want to be that way about it).

I have never heard of anyone from Rat Queen to Molly Danger...and I didn't know the name of Redjack's books.

Where's the Kickstarter link?
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #736 on: July 27, 2014, 03:32:11 pm »
The “puppet masters” of black comic-book characters.

Name another medium where this happens besides history-books & the 5 oclock news? I like all these guys (and lady) but they have no right to monopolize black-characters while catering to fanboys. They are playing with culture! 


Brian Michael Bendis (writer)  David Marquez (artist)  Miles Morales/Ultimate Spider-Man


Tom Taylor (writer) John Steward/ Green Lantern



Jonathan Hickman  Black Panther/New Avengers


Al Ewing(writer) Greg Land (artist)    Luke Cage, Monica Rambeau/ Mighty Avengers
 

Greg Pak (writer) Storm (Emphasis on the word "solo")



correction;  a woman writing a woman character? no! yes!
what a great idea! why didn't I think of that?
G. Willow Wilson Ms. Marvel


it's not racism, it's exclusion. a black person writing/drawing black characters? dumb idea, right? across the board... no, none. step away from the culture. fair? they are controlling the image of blacks without black direct input. it's unethical. I will never support blatant fanboy monopolization of my culture. R.E.S.P.E.C.T. find out what it means to me. they are not the enemy but they are stealing...


why would fanboys want to manipulate the image of blacks?


^the real... creative minds

^real... soul in the hole

^real... venus/ goddess


the real reason...

reason! let me say that word again... REASON


this is a seriously dope post. I may not agree with the idea that some or any or all of the non-Black creators mentioned might want to be Black, but the rest of the comments? On point.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #737 on: July 27, 2014, 04:04:30 pm »


There are many x-fanatics who may be homosexual and mindful of how the U.S. black community in large part, resists all attempts to make their agenda "synonymous" with our Struggle. Those homosexual x-fanatics realize that the X-Men mythos has moved beyond what was the original Civil Rights Struggle analogy and firmly into a concept supporting the LGBT agenda. These x-fanatics might be those who would rather there never be any black male heterosexual mutants and who complained most bitterly when the possibly bi-sexual Ororo Munroe entered into a heterosexual MARRIAGE.

Quote

Bingo!




I believe you're onto something...

It's starting to look that way!   :)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #738 on: July 27, 2014, 04:10:54 pm »


There are many x-fanatics who may be homosexual and mindful of how the U.S. black community in large part, resists all attempts to make their agenda "synonymous" with our Struggle. Those homosexual x-fanatics realize that the X-Men mythos has moved beyond what was the original Civil Rights Struggle analogy and firmly into a concept supporting the LGBT agenda. These x-fanatics might be those who would rather there never be any black male heterosexual mutants and who complained most bitterly when the possibly bi-sexual Ororo Munroe entered into a heterosexual MARRIAGE.

Quote

Bingo!




I believe you're onto something...

It's starting to look that way!   :)

Bro, it's been that way for a long time.

Some of us have just chosen to ignore or remain oblivious to it. :smh:

Offline Princesa

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #739 on: July 27, 2014, 04:36:30 pm »
Know what I have gay family and gay friends... I'm just going to leave it at that.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #740 on: July 27, 2014, 05:18:26 pm »
Know what I have gay family and gay friends... I'm just going to leave it at that.

The maternal side of my family is...massive. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some members are LGBT. A Cousin, a few years older than myself, whom I grew up with died of AIDS-related complications while still a young man. My closest friend is a homosexual man. A mutual friend of ours who was also homosexual, also died of AIDS-related complications. I've known and befriended two homosexual men, former co-workers of mine; both white.

Once again, where I only explored the cavity in my comments about this subject where it concerns Storm, Storm and T'Challa, the X-Men franchise, the dearth of black male mutants and the ill treatment of those who exist(ed), Brother Salustrade performed the root canal exposing the infection for what it is. We can no longer ignore the possibility - particularly in light of the shot fired across the bow in STORM #1 (anti-mutant black folk-populated Santo Marco = the many "black" nations who have either banned or criminalized homosexuality), that the X-franchise having positioned itself as an advocate for the LGBT and creating a circumstance wherein black female mutants seem to flourish while being a heterosexual black male mutant is a fatal proposition, that there is some sort of message attempting to be sent.
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #741 on: July 27, 2014, 05:20:10 pm »
Know what I have gay family and gay friends... I'm just going to leave it at that.

Ummmm, what does that have to do with the marriage between T'Challa and Ororo being purposely derailed by folks who seem to have a problem with the depiction of heterosexual love between Black man and Black woman being portrayed within a comicbook?

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #742 on: July 27, 2014, 05:27:47 pm »
Know what I have gay family and gay friends... I'm just going to leave it at that.


The maternal side of my family is...massive. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that some members are LGBT. A Cousin, a few years older than myself, whom I grew up with died of AIDS-related complications while still a young man. My closest friend is a homosexual man. A mutual friend of ours who was also homosexual, also died of AIDS-related complications. I've known and befriended two homosexual men, former co-workers of mine; both white.

Once again, where I only explored the cavity in my comments about this subject where it concerns Storm, Storm and T'Challa, the X-Men franchise, the dearth of black male mutants and the ill treatment of those who exist(ed), Brother Salustrade performed the root canal exposing the infection for what it is. We can no longer ignore the possibility - particularly in light of the shot fired across the bow in STORM #1 (anti-mutant black folk-populated Santo Marco = the many "black" nations who have either banned or criminalized homosexuality), that the X-franchise having positioned itself as an advocate for the LGBT and creating a circumstance wherein black female mutants seem to flourish while being a heterosexual black male mutant is a fatal proposition, that there is some sort of message attempting to be sent.


Greg Pak could have jolly well had Storm fly over to Russia to deal with some natural disaster over there and then go head-to-head with anti-mutant government forces over there (especially as Russia have pretty stringent anti-gay legislation in place themselves) but that wouldn't have segued that well into the overarching need on the part of the X-office to either paint people of African descent as being barbarically xenophobic or visit death and destruction upon them.....






The subtext is as clear as day for any one with discerning eyes to see.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 05:32:03 pm by Salustrade »

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #743 on: July 27, 2014, 06:23:33 pm »
I am not in the slightest bit suprised that some of the self-same individuals who reeled back in horror at the concept of the marriage of an African man and African woman (albeit fictional) would revel in describing Storm as a "Queer Feminist Icon.....and symbol of Black Power and pride" when for the most part, especially where the Black Power and pride aspect of the equation is concerned, she's anything but.


1) "Queer" Icon - Queer as in LGBT. As of now, there is only a suspicion that Ororo is bi-sexual. There has been no "David Alleyne/Prodigy" written/illustrated proof that Ororo is bisexual. Yet, on the strength of the desire of the LGBT fandom alone, they have claimed Ororo as a "Queer Icon" and though any deviance in Ororo's sexual preferences remains unverified, her queerness is accepted as fact.

2) "Feminist" Icon - On occassion, Ororo has been depicted as a strong, commanding individual who happened to be female. When I think of "feminist" comicbook characters Thundra comes to mind, not Storm. Still, it appears that at least one person believes the feminists deserve a piece of Storm for themselves.

3) "Black Power and pride" - Like hell. Debating Ororo's physical and cultural "blackness" with some Storm fanatics has been akin to Sisyphus rolling that rock uphill. And when you look at it...Queer, Feminist Icon and symbol of Black Power and pride...the only aspect of this description that isn't pure conjecture is the fact that Storm is black, she is powerful and a source of pride. And it is usually this absolute of this description that is often attacked by her fanatics.

Quote
Ororo was created from out of the amalgamation of discarded ideas repurposed with the express objective of creating an exotic character who would fit into the X-men's ongoing narrative as "feared and hated" within the 616 MU but unlike the rest of the X-Men, she was cast as an exotic character of indeterminate racial origins which when juxtaposed against the fact that both of her parents were of African/African-American descent, just came across as a nonsensical explanation that merely enabled the writers concerned to avoid the ramifications of having to actually deal with the real world problems of racism as opposed to the metaphorical conceit that has existed to this very day in the X-books.


Make it plain, Brother!

Quote
Black skin on the outside and convoluted and rarely (if ever) explored true knowledge of self in Ororo's narrative within the X-books was always made glaringly obvious when one considered the fact that practically all of the other X-Men's ethnic bacgrounds and cultural idiosyncracies where clearly delineated on page whilst Ororo's remained buried beneath the incredibly patronizing idea that she allegedly encompassed all of the characteristics of ethnicities from across the globe.


Here it is. This is an irrefutable, unassailable, obvious truth. In nearly every X-book we comicbook fans have read featuring Storm, this is how we have seen her. This Storm who admits to herself in X-Men #171 that the things she has done as an X-Man up to that point has gone beyond everything she holds meaningful in her personal life...this Storm, who is so conflicted that she says aloud that her being an X-Man is destroying her, cannot bring herself to leave that which is destroying her because she has come to love that which is destroying her. And her fans claim it was her being Queen of Wakanda that was destroying her. Salustrade has made it plain. What more is there to do?

What I will do is read the rest of this excellent post here again and ask that any others who will, to do so without prejudice.

Quote
This conceit set agains the backdrop of the near total absence of Black male mutants in the early days of the "new" X-Men was something that flew over the heads of a lot of early X-fans who were swept up in the fast paced adventures of the X-book penned by Chris Claremont who to this day has been credited for being the single X-writer who wrote the book for the longest time before other X-books started cropping up left and right to capitalize on the increasing interest in all of the mutant characters that were being launched.

As time progressed and various writers and editorial teams came and went, there was a sea change at the X-office which led to a gradual move away from the mutant synonymous with racial discrimination concept to one more in line with the concept/reality of homosexuality and homophobia and this change in direction began to play itself out within the X-books with an ever increasing frequency which in turn began to manmifest itself within fandom with many unexpected results.

Reginald Hudlin, unapologetic, confident and focused on revitalizing the Black Panther character in the wake of Christopher J. Priest's stellar take on the character and his world, wrote a T'Challa who was focused, determined, supremely confident and fiercely dedicated to the protection of Wakandan interests in a world that had always sought to subjugate the mysterious nation and purloin Wakandan Vibranium their most treasured natural resource.

T'Challa was that swashbuckling Monarch who represented all that one could wish for in a character of worth and Mr Hudlin continued from where Priest left off as regards having T'Challa be a competent and extremely compelling protagonist.

All remained peaceful until Reginald Hudlin decided to pick up on another thread that Priest had explored to some degree in the BP series that preceded Mr Hudlin's but it's really important to note that both authors were exploring a concept that had been originally been brought into play than none other than Chris Claremont himself.

Namely, the relationship between T'Challa and Ororo.

Hudlin built up a plausible rekindling of the love between these two characters which culminated in the "Marriage of the Century" with Marvel Editorials full backing and blessing and that's when all hell broke loose.

We're all familiar with the plethora of accusations that began to fill the online so-called comic book "community" with some accusing Mr Hudlin of only marrying two of Marvel's most iconic Black characters because they were African and even more bizzarely some even went as far as accusing Mr Hudlin of being "racist" for putting the two characters together.

Hudlin's Black panther run was extremely successful from a financial point of view and wildly popular amongst a section of Marvels readership that had hitherto always been ignored and most of us enjoyed what Hudlin and Dwayne McDuffie did with the Royal Couple in their respective books and the Marvel events (Civil War/WWH/Secret Invasion) that ran back-to-back at the time.

Unfortunately, there was a segment of readership fueled by a sense of resentment, who kept up a constant level of invective directed towards Reginald Hudlin with the false charge of Hudlin "writing Ororo down to prop up T'Challa" ringing from the metaphorical rooftops

The X-Office and the writers attached to that arm of Marvel did not reciprocate Hudlin's positive portrayal of the X-Men within his ongoing Black panther narrative as they did not seem inclined to recognize the marriage in any way, size or form and this disdain for the marriage on the part of the X-office was solidified by the arrival of Nick Lowe and his taking up of the mantel for Editor of that office.

Reginald Hudlin's departure from the BP book signaled the beginning of the end for the marriage as the X-office went into overdrive in dismantling it via AvX in such a way as to make reconcialition between the two characters virtually impossible but it was the subtext of anti-heterosexual Black male aggression that had long since become a staple within the X-books that really began to show what the real problem was for so many within the X-office as well as a segment of their readership.

The wholesale decimation of Wakanda at the hand of the X-Men's Namor cvlearly illustrated just what the X-office thought of Wakanda and by extenntion, Black people in general and this furthermore goes to show why the marriage between two heterosexuals of African descent was anathema to an X-office hellbent on repurposing the "feared and most hated" tagline and attaching it wholesale to the homosexual cause whilst subliminally throwing a diss towards those xeno(homo)phobic wakandans.

This was the overiding and primary reason why the X-office never supported the marriage and that's why upon engineering it's annullment, Ororo, the former Queen of Wakanda was regressed back to her punk persona (with ridiculous mohawk to match) and turned into Wolverine's bed wench.

The concept of Ororo as Queen of Wakanda was something that these readers could not countenance but the watered down Storm as woman to a man who recognized within the same 616 MU as being an unapologetic mass murderer was fine.

Now, many of those self same readers are clamouring for Storm to be cast as a bisexual character cavorting with the likes of Yukio as they seek to have her take up the mantle of gay icon and in the process, whatever character development that Reginald Hudlin brought to her character is being washed down the drain like so so much jetsam and flotsam. (Yaaaasssssss!)

Only a fool would fail to see that it was a segment of readership with their own ideology that had a problem with the marriage between Ororo and T'Challa and the fact that Marvel pandered to this segment of readership, says a lot about Marvel's faux position on diversity than anything else.

In the wake of BOTA, Kymera was introduced as Storm's daugther from a future timeline accompanied by an actual Black Panther but to date, there has been zero mention or even passing exploration as to Kymera's father is but as we can see from Nick Spencer's Avengers World........



Avengers scribes have no problem clearly delineating who Ororo and T'Challa's children are.

Set against such a backdrop, one is left wondering what it is exactly that Marvel see as the long game to be played out as far as Ororo's relationship with T'Challa is going to be mocing forward but as far as I'm concerned, the queer nation segment of X-readers and the writers who deliver fan-fic masquerading as professional written stories for them, can keep Storm.

The BP mythos don't need to be derailed any further by folks whose agenda is in complete opposition to that which encourages the harmonius union between Black man and Black woman.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #744 on: July 28, 2014, 02:14:23 am »
And so, some of us have become irritated with Rutog.

 :)

What he posts and our perception of his motives for posting what he posts incites some of us to respond unfavorably to his opinions and unfortunately, to Rutog himself.

I submit to you all that Rutog is not the problem. If anything, in my always humble opinion, Rutog is only a symptom of the larger problem.

Rutog is what Supreme said he is; a Storm fanatic who through his research, believes himself to be an eminent authority on the character. He doesn't need to respond to rudeness because he has all of the "facts"  ;)

Rutog is no more a troll than our own Princessa is a troll. Rutog is adamant in what he believes to be the truest essence of Ororo Munroe a.k.a. Storm. Convinced of this, he posts his opinions and positions with such dogmaticism  :D ... that over time it becomes inflammatory. And yet, I have seen him concede a point here and there where he has considered a rebuttal to his position. We have all done so at one time or another. This is healthy.

Though there is no proof, Princessa believes Ororo to be queer. Some of us would prefer that this not be the case, but if it happens to be decided by the powers that be that Ororo is indeed queer, then it is what it is. Much of what Rutog posts about Storm is true of her character. Some of it...as Edgar Allen Poe might have put it; "trespasses upon the kingdom of inorganization." It gets way out there. He's only relating what he believes to be true of Ororo through fact or inference of what has been represented by various writers of her exploits. Is this so different from Princessa and others inferring from what they've comprehended from reading those same exploits, that Ororo is bi-sexual?

Rutog believes that an Ororo written "in character" is nearly flawless. He cites Chris Claremont often and I take from this that Rutog believes him to be the consuumate chronicler of Ororo Munroe. Yet, it was Claremont who penned this interval of doubt, despair and anguish:

I wish I could control my life--my destiny--as easily as I do the weather. I cannot believe the things I have done. The duel--this morning's confrontation with Callisto--they all fly in the face of all I have ever believed about myself.

And yet, this same inner metamorphosis seems to be making me a better leader of the X-Men. Is that bad?

I feel as though I stand at a crossroads--to remain an X-Man--especially as leader--I must sacrifice the beliefs that give my life meaning. Yet the alternative means leaving those I love, forever. This is my home, they are my family--how can I desert them?!

And Xavier told me the day we met, that my powers should be used for the benefit of all humanity. Was I wrong to listen? Can I deny that responsibility?


This is not the powerful, perfect Ororo Rutog claims her to be when written "in character", is it?

While Ororo was married to T'Challa, the constant refrain from Storm's fans...little doubt Rutog was among them...that Ororo could never be happy as Queen of Wakanda; that being an X-Man was what made her happy and whole. How does that blather reconcile with this?

Ororo says aloud: "It is because of you that I became an X-Man, old man--and that decision is destroying me!"[/b]

The problem is that Ororo has been written inconsistently almost since her inception and often, the direction of her characterization is slanted to appease...I'll say it plainly, the LCBRD.
Mr. MajestiK, I like your style. You are the wiser, calmer, more articulate second coming of sinjection to "that other place". You do me proud.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #745 on: July 28, 2014, 03:48:42 am »
Rutgog

So there was that time Storm had to "shelter" Cyclops from the elements--with Xavier getting his life monitoring and then she was Dracula's concubine for a run of time that nobody knows when that ended,then there is of course Namor ,Nightcrawler, Arkon...

I don't know which instance you are referring to with Cyclops. Regarding Dracula and Arkon, Dracula is a guy with a very regal bearing and Arkon the ruler of an entire planet. Dracula didn't want Storm as some kind of concubine, but as a true mate. Same with Arkon. The same holds true with Loki, Doom and Kahn. None of them were looking for just some one-night stand with her. They wanted to offer her a throne to rule beside them. Notice, she rebuffed each and every last one of them save Nightcrawler whom she entertained a brief, casual dating relationship with. Thing is, if you were looking for a queen, among the X-Women, who best exemplifies that regal bearing of a queen? The answer is no other than our very own Mistress of the Elements, Ororo Munroe. :) All this proves is these men have great taste and next to Storm, all the other X-Women are mere commoners. They are not looking at her like a piece of meat at some sleazy strip club, but as the ultimate mate. Can't blame them for trying, but none of them have what it takes to be with Storm...BLAST those x-writers for matching Ororo with Logan!!!
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #746 on: July 28, 2014, 03:57:57 am »
The “puppet masters” of black comic-book characters.

Name another medium where this happens besides history-books & the 5 oclock news? I like all these guys (and lady) but they have no right to monopolize black-characters while catering to fanboys. They are playing with culture! 


Brian Michael Bendis (writer)  David Marquez (artist)  Miles Morales/Ultimate Spider-Man


Tom Taylor (writer) John Steward/ Green Lantern



Jonathan Hickman  Black Panther/New Avengers


Al Ewing(writer) Greg Land (artist)    Luke Cage, Monica Rambeau/ Mighty Avengers
 

Greg Pak (writer) Storm (Emphasis on the word "solo")



correction;  a woman writing a woman character? no! yes!
what a great idea! why didn't I think of that?
G. Willow Wilson Ms. Marvel


it's not racism, it's exclusion. a black person writing/drawing black characters? dumb idea, right? across the board... no, none. step away from the culture. fair? they are controlling the image of blacks without black direct input. it's unethical. I will never support blatant fanboy monopolization of my culture. R.E.S.P.E.C.T. find out what it means to me. they are not the enemy but they are stealing...


why would fanboys want to manipulate the image of blacks?


^the real... creative minds

^real... soul in the hole

^real... venus/ goddess


the real reason...

reason! let me say that word again... REASON


this is a seriously dope post. I may not agree with the idea that some or any or all of the non-Black creators mentioned might want to be Black, but the rest of the comments? On point.



Gracias, supreme. Seriously, I made several blanket-statements. I genuinely deal the percentages. It boils-down to social media bias. They’re just like the republican party of comic-books. Appealing to a corrupt & immature demographic. These big publications have become the equivalent of “Fox News.” To promote black-characters without black-creators makes them look unprofessional, insincere & dated. It’s consistent left-winged fictional commentary at the expense of black culture instead of at the benefit of black culture.     

Yes, we have fantastic black creators that  definitely deserve our support & fandom. They’re all super-genius & generous with creativity. It's exciting to watch the renaissance. But...

I’m saying what I’m saying for independents. Again, it’s bigger than comics. They are representing multi-culturalism in the absences of cultural representation. They can’t promote a false sense of diversity. Be genuine or leave it alone. That’s not a high-standard of quality. That’s MISrepresentation. Bias, in this particular situation means deliberate propaganda. There are no fair & balanced portrayals (of black characters) because the processes (of creation) isn’t balanced. The issue is artistic/journalistic integrity.

Beg deez nutz! A closed mouth does not get fed. Independents keep their heads down to focus on their own projects. We’re all guilty of possessiveness. Where’s the mobilization of independents protecting the image & interests of characters of color? They semi-support one another by stroking each others egos. Copy-cat formulas are worse than the unauthentic. Pacifists to the big names in hopes of opportunity. They would like an open door policy but are too docile to request. At least the Negro Leagues was a league. Where are the indie liaisons? 

In the past, I’ve sold my own comics directly to the public & said, “:!@#$% the middle-man!” Street vendors & comic-cons are no different. Set-up a booth?     

I had to defend my accusations with visual images of the creators behind our black heroes & sheroes. Basically, I laid the cards out on the table, so we could see the hand they are dealing us. We don’t need them TOTALLY narrating our story for us. It’s a “knock-off” of the original. Fake Jordans.

Storm , gay? History proves that "lesbianism" (ancient Greco/roman culture) grew out of necessity for women in misogynistic societies. The same as feminism. there is no point.         
   
claiming Ororo was being diminished around black people or in matrimony is an inappropriate response. Black comic-book fans should have a zero tolerance policy for BS backed by the indies.  They sip the koolaid slow.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 03:59:34 am by APEXABYSS »

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #747 on: July 28, 2014, 04:05:18 am »

1) I did not take a swing at Hudlin for the Shuri thing. I know what Storm did at the end of Hudlin's run and how she saved T'challa. He TOTALLY captured the ferocious determination of Storm in those issues as well as captured the truth depth of her love for T'challa. The beef I have is with what happened AFTERWARDS during Maberry's run. Thanks for bringing up the point about how Wakanda must always have a reigning, active Black Panther. That is significant, however, I still remain unmoved in my position that Storm should have been out there ruthlessly trying to ascertain the identity of Panther's attacker. I mean, if she can show so much passion for Kitty's (supposed) death, the Morlocks, Wolverine and a bunch of mutant-hating New York City citizens she doesn't even know, how we can expect her doing any less for her husband, the human being she loves most in the world, than she did for those people in trying to unearth the identity of her husband's assailant and to exact vengeance upon them? Do you recall in "Worlds Apart" where Ororo blasted Scott out of the sky half a world way while she was in Africa and he was in the US and inner monologue she had with herself at the end of issue 2 when Shadow King came after her himself while inhabiting Black Panther? "While I may risk killing Scott, I would rather kill myself than hurt my husband." Nobody should lay a finger on T'challa and not have her out there looking for you personally. I mean talking about the old phrase, "you have sown the wind, now shall you reap the whirlwind," anyone who touches T'challa should have to reap the whirlwind.

You make some compelling arguments about how Shuri needed to shine to convince readers that she was legit. Still, its not a good enough reason to write Storm out of the action like Maberry did. She should have been out there like Shuri trying to figure this out, but  from a different angle. Both characters should have shined in this case. It would be in keeping with Storm's character and showing her the respect she deserves while also showcasing Shuri and minting her as the legit Panther. From a business standpoint, this would have also been better for sales. Many of the readers who had left the book earlier came back when the change of writers took place. Hence, the sales spiked on Maberry's first book, IIRC. The draw to the title were Storm and the Black Panther. Those are the characters with fanbases, not Shuri. This is why soon after, the sales on the book dropped once more.

I definitely agree with part of what you're saying here. Ororo SHOULD HAVE BEEN MORE ACTIVE IN THE SEARCH FOR TCHALLA'S ATTACKER. I completely agree. But that search would have failed, because she was infected with nanites.

How do you defeat the nanites in a believable way that gives all involved their credit and due? The villains, heroes, and supporting characters?

Here is where they would have needed help that Doom couldn't trump.

Right away, I would have pulled out a set of characters who RH used previously in the series: Blade, Monica Rambeau, and most especially Brother...Doctor?...Voodoo. Doctor Voodoo has the magic power and mystic senses to trump Doom's nanites. This would give Brother Voodoo a much needed chance to get a big W against Doom in a significant way, that would erase the "L" he took via beatdown from Doom in Voodoo's own series. Also, DOOM...already assessing Brother Voodo and deeming him a threat that he can overcome...would probably have someone like Morgan Le Fey dealing with the magic side of things, the better to free him to focus on TChalla and Reed.

With Maberry's serious facility with all things supernatural in his best selling books, writing Brother Voodoo in concert with the BP book shoulda been a no-brainer and a orgasm at the same time.

Rambeau? FTL speed and electromagnetic range of powers. That's how you trace an otherwsie untraceable tech energy source faster than it can fry you and alert somebody like Doom.

BLADE? That's how you have a warrior equipped with magic and tech who can help to lead your magic tech Midnight Angels against Doom's Mystic Vibranium Doombots.Plus? With a timely assist from War Machine...Thanks Maberry for including 3 Black characters on panel in your book, the first time since RH made history by having 4 Black characters on-panel working together so let's give Maberry his props...and help from two more characters that will spike sales and be believable here and that would be ELEKTRA [ ninja magic, unparalleled assassin ] and Zawaviri working with THE CREW to hunt down The Broker? You can have Storm and The X-Men attacking Doom on one front while TChalla and Shuri attack on another.

Plus? Unleashing Storm with serious attitude=SALES SPIKE.

Plus...we get serious h2h throwdowns. Remember that girl that Shuri fought during Maberry's very good POWER arc? The Broker brings her back with a major Mystic Vibranium tech upgrade for Round 2.

DOOM is a supergenius strategist. He'd employ teams of supervillains, too, as he knows that TChalla would deploy multiple teams against him. Most of the teams TChalla would employ would find themselves overrun by or at least stalemated by Mystic Vibranium Doombots. But there would be special teams designed to take the fight directly to Wakanda and the home bases of all DOOM's enemies.

ELEKTRA, The White Wolf and THE CREW--after wrangling with The Broker--get to bang it out with Doombots, Taskmaster, Boomerang, Doomlok [ Doom's Mystic Vibranium evil version of Deathlok ] ...and a few other name bad guys like a revamped Omega Red sent to assassinate The White Wolf and Ramonda, as these two are the remaining characters most likely to cause DOOM further problems, in the absence of TChalla.

Howzabout trying to distract TChalla with a Mystic Vibranium enhanced returned to energy or physical form Klaw?


But.

Given the fact that Doom was starring in major ways all over the Marvel Universe? They weren't going to let BP, Storm, BP and Storm, or anybody who wasn't a major A-List White guy smash on Doom. That's it. THOR did it, and that's part of the proof that makes my point. At that time, Doom and Osborn and H.A.M.M.E.R. were running things. It was THE DARK REIGN. Remember?

No shine for Black people.



Of course Storm would have failed, but she should have at least tried and maybe even given Doom some concern with her resourcefulness. That said, I have to disagree with you on the point that Marvel won't let an A-lister Black character take out Doom. Storm did a nice job of that in Uncanny 147. ;)

It would have been nice to have seen some of those characters you mentioned show up in the book, but I still have another problem with Maberry's treatment of Storm. Not only was she second fiddle to Shuri, but when he promised to make it up to us by giving Storm an issue in "DoomWar" to take her vengeance upon Doom, he reneged on that. Jenn called me gullible when I kept saying, 'We have the word of the writer' and Princesa never bought into it either. Both were proven right and I was wrong. So, we had a WHOLE year with Maberry and Storm not doing diddly squat except fall for that trap Doom set up for her where he attacked the plants. This is a trap she should not have fallen for given her connection with life itself be it a star, planet, living creatures or plant life and her ability to perceive all kinds of energies, including mystical energies, with her alternate vision. Then, to be held hostage by Doom to try and get Panther to tell him a password or something to get into the vibranium vaults? Gotta say, it was rough to buy all those issues as a Storm fan while always expecting month after month for Storm to finally "cut loose" as Maberry promised before he changed his mind.

So, now the book was a Shuri book and Storm was regulated to the margins since she was married to T'challa who was no longer the Panther. Yeah, this is what made me think the marriage needed to end. A whole year of this treatment from Maberry with no signs whatsoever of things changing to allow Ororo to get some moments to shine. There seemed to be no end in sight to this. I mean, while I know whoever is the reigning Black Panther is the defender of Wakanda, Ororo, with her enormous power levels and being a member of the royal family, would also be a defender as well. So, in effect, regardless as to who is the BP, Storm should always have a big role.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #748 on: July 28, 2014, 04:28:19 am »
And so, some of us have become irritated with Rutog.

 :)

What he posts and our perception of his motives for posting what he posts incites some of us to respond unfavorably to his opinions and unfortunately, to Rutog himself.

I submit to you all that Rutog is not the problem. If anything, in my always humble opinion, Rutog is only a symptom of the larger problem.

Rutog is what Supreme said he is; a Storm fanatic who through his research, believes himself to be an eminent authority on the character. He doesn't need to respond to rudeness because he has all of the "facts"  ;)

Rutog is no more a troll than our own Princessa is a troll. Rutog is adamant in what he believes to be the truest essence of Ororo Munroe a.k.a. Storm. Convinced of this, he posts his opinions and positions with such dogmaticism  :D ... that over time it becomes inflammatory. And yet, I have seen him concede a point here and there where he has considered a rebuttal to his position. We have all done so at one time or another. This is healthy.

Though there is no proof, Princessa believes Ororo to be queer. Some of us would prefer that this not be the case, but if it happens to be decided by the powers that be that Ororo is indeed queer, then it is what it is. Much of what Rutog posts about Storm is true of her character. Some of it...as Edgar Allen Poe might have put it; "trespasses upon the kingdom of inorganization." It gets way out there. He's only relating what he believes to be true of Ororo through fact or inference of what has been represented by various writers of her exploits. Is this so different from Princessa and others inferring from what they've comprehended from reading those same exploits, that Ororo is bi-sexual?

Rutog believes that an Ororo written "in character" is nearly flawless. He cites Chris Claremont often and I take from this that Rutog believes him to be the consuumate chronicler of Ororo Munroe. Yet, it was Claremont who penned this interval of doubt, despair and anguish:

I wish I could control my life--my destiny--as easily as I do the weather. I cannot believe the things I have done. The duel--this morning's confrontation with Callisto--they all fly in the face of all I have ever believed about myself.

And yet, this same inner metamorphosis seems to be making me a better leader of the X-Men. Is that bad?

I feel as though I stand at a crossroads--to remain an X-Man--especially as leader--I must sacrifice the beliefs that give my life meaning. Yet the alternative means leaving those I love, forever. This is my home, they are my family--how can I desert them?!

And Xavier told me the day we met, that my powers should be used for the benefit of all humanity. Was I wrong to listen? Can I deny that responsibility?


This is not the powerful, perfect Ororo Rutog claims her to be when written "in character", is it?

While Ororo was married to T'Challa, the constant refrain from Storm's fans...little doubt Rutog was among them...that Ororo could never be happy as Queen of Wakanda; that being an X-Man was what made her happy and whole. How does that blather reconcile with this?

Ororo says aloud: "It is because of you that I became an X-Man, old man--and that decision is destroying me!"[/b]

The problem is that Ororo has been written inconsistently almost since her inception and often, the direction of her characterization is slanted to appease...I'll say it plainly, the LCBRD.

I'd like to say a couple of things about this post:

1) Thanks for realizing that I am not a troll. I just tell it like it is. Some people may agree with me while others don't. I have to be myself, though. I can't just try and blend in with whatever is the popular belief on whatever board I am on.

2) I never said that Storm is flawless, only that she was written down to prop up T'challa in her mini and written down to prop up Shuri during Maberry's stint and there seemed to be no end in sight to the DREADFUL Shuri situation. Ugh!  I know Storm makes mistakes and is flawed. The Adversary tricked Storm into making an assassination attempt on Forge when she was powerless and she nearly killed him by knifing him. During Mutant Massacre, when the Morlocks were killed, Storm got  overwhelmed and tried to run away and Callisto had to drag her back. While she was new at leading the team, she underestimated Dr. Doom in Uncanny 145 (but got her own back 2 issues later) and was even out-slicked by Mystique in another story.. I mean, I can bring up instances of her not being perfect, but the point is what Maberry did was so far beyond the pail that it was not even close to believable about Storm.

3) Regarding Uncanny 171, of course I know that issue. I know that story VERY well. I actually used that in a debate I was engaged in with other Storm fans regarding the events that led her to get the Mohawk. Its a very important issue to anyone who follows the character. Even before this, when she first became the leader of the X-Men, she had doubts about her ability to lead effectively. We saw this in several stories. It was something that she grew into and became very good at. What you brought up is one of the reasons I love the character so much. She was always going through these hardships (at that time, she was also wrestling with her bond with the Earth being fractured as it took a LONG time for her to get readjusted to the life force of the planet. This resulted in her powers being unpredictable and off-center). She lost her powers and almost lost her will to live behind it, IIRC. The fun part is reading about how she overcomes these challenges. In the instance where she lost her powers, she went back to Africa to find herself again. She connected with the people of a village there. One of the most beautiful and most powerful lines in all of the X-Men canon came from Storm as she stood on that hilltop overlooking the African village with her arms outstretched when she said, "Though my feet shall never leave the ground, in my soul, where it truly matters, I soar higher than the stars." She had finally come to terms with the loss of her mutant abilities. Again, she had almost lost her will to live prior to this and nearly gave up several times on her own life and was almost ready to just lay down and die. So, she is definitely flawed, but has the courage and strength of will to face down these flaws, to confront them and emerge from the crucible even stronger than before.

Also, I've never said here or anywhere else Storm could not be happy as the Queen of Wakanda. The more books she's in, the better. I like to read about this character. What I had a problem with was Marvel's double-standard, though. I thought she should have been allowed to remain in Claremont's Uncanny X-Men book while being cast in Black Panther. I mean, if Wolverine can show up in The Avengers, his own solo title and X-Men titles every month, why can't Ororo be in just two books?


@Everyone

The reason I will never buy into the theory that the Storm fans were against the marriage because T'challa is Black or that Marvel broke up the marriage for the same reason is because the way the presentation of everything leading up to the marriage was rushed and sloppy. I blame Marvel for the bickering that took place between the T'challa and Ororo fans. I already went through my reasons for this a couple of pages ago. They had no significant time together to get to know each other as adults. The dreadful mini that was written in a desperate attempt to try and establish a foundation for marriage. On top of this, Marvel said it was doing this thing in honor of Black History Month which gives people ammunition to say that Marvel is just throwing these two characters together because they are both Black. Many people will view that as racist and they do kinda have a point when you put all the facts together and consider that there was not enough time for them to get to know each other as adults before taking this step. Sorry, guys. Personally, I realized all of this back then, but I remained open-minded because I saw the potential in this union. I've stated this before. It was a way for Storm's role to extend beyond the X-bubble and for T'challa to rise to the iconic level of the likes of Reed and Tony.

While I like the idea of the two married to each other, I wanted it to be done in a realistic manner where they share membership on the same team like the Defenders first or maybe share a 12 issue maxi series, just the two of them together without any other X-Men or Avengers showing up where they can get to know each other as adults. T'challa could have surprised everyone by  proposing to Storm on the last panel of the last page of the last issue of the maxi. Instead, Marvel just threw them together and TELEGRAPHED it to everyone OVER and OVER again in INTERVIEW after INTERVIEW that this rushed, unrealistic marriage (unrealistic in the way it was presented) was being done for Black History month. The fans saying that Storm would not be happy as the Queen of Wakanda and just needed the X-Men were just reacting to this HORRIBLE move by Marvel and the way Storm was portrayed at the beginning of the ordeal with that EJD mini and the awkward early issues of BP that came right after the marriage.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2014, 05:03:00 am by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #749 on: July 28, 2014, 08:03:43 am »
For all of this fist shaking invective, books that HAVE Black creators like Rat Queens, Vescell, Five Weapons, Midnight Tiger, Miranda Mercury and my personal favorite Molly Danger can barely get a mention around here.

That's  in addition to our own Redjack's Knight Rider and Airwolf comics.

You could even donate to the Kick starter for the second volume of Watson and Holmes. Or order the Volume one trade if you are against donating to business ventures (or online begging if you want to be that way about it).

No mention of these projects at the other comics board? If not, then there should be.

On another note: Vic, you mentioned that STORM ongoing's target audience were not those who wouldn't pull an X-book title with a 10 foot pole. Maybe. Maybe not.

When the Lindy Hop dance was created, white people were not the target audience. However, once some whites saw the dance it appealed to them so much that they made themselves welcome at the venues where blacks danced the dance and then those whites began dancing it themselves. They weren't very good at the dance at first and black dancers remarked in jest, that their herky-jerky motions made them look like "jitterbugs", which at that time was a term used to describe nervous and/or drunk people. But those white people adopted that name and made it their own. Soon, they were jitterbugs and the name of the dance, originally named the Lindy Hop by its black creators, today is better known as the Jitterbug.

From the Lindy Hop, to Hip Hop then. Mindful of the history of so-called black American music being appropriated and expropriated by white imitators, Rap music at the beginning was a very "Afro-Centric" genre. Whites were certainly not the target audience. As before however, once the music began to appeal to whites, they gradually moved to it. First, their presence was nothing more than nibbling at the perimeter of the genre. The Beastie Boys and Insane Clown Posse provided white rap fans with an alternative style they could latch onto while Rap music was still in it's "Black positivity stage". But when Rap music turned from being positive to being gangsta, sending negative messages about black people, the community, its women, and criminal activities, whites latched on to it with a fervor, even encouraged it. eminem is the creation of gangsta Rap. Today, white's essentially run Rap music.

Lindy Hop, Hip Hop...target audience = black people. White people now dominate both. Those black creations were universally appreciated and coveted. Comicbooks seems to be immune to this dynamic. It is a white-created medium of entertainment. Usually, whites follow the developments in black culture, rarely is it the other way around. The black audience for comicbooks isn't as great as the white audience is for anything black people seem to create in the realm of entertainment.
STORM and the X-Men don't have to push for universal appeal. Indeed, they might not desire it. The X-franchise might be happy to be seen as a niche for whites and homosexual comicbook fans who don't want their product mixing with the black niche BLACK PANTHER audience.

So why should any of us bother with that STORM ongoing?

As far as I can see, nobody other than Rutog is saying that you should bother with it.

My point was that there are other comics to talk about.

Ones that won't piss you off.

Heads would rather be mad at Marvel than support indy books verbally or otherwise.

On the bright side, this merry go round is given Reg's site some traffic so there is that.