Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 527180 times)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #765 on: July 29, 2014, 09:56:45 am »
Rutgog

Know what I call a man who tries to make a woman his "true mate" against her will? A rapist. Know what I call the romanticizing of that type story? Rape Culture. The X Verse is full of that.Like Emma stealing Storm's body so Shaw could rape her.Arkon Dracula Emma Shaw ,mind swiped into an intimate relationship with Namor....on and on. I recall Hudlin saying about the marriage I'm paraphrasing heavily at least Storm won't be subject to continuous sexual assault now. I am appalled and sickened by your commentary on this.

The point I was making is this: of all the X-women, which one is the most regal and ethereal? Storm. If one wanted a queen, Storm would be their choice. Arkon originally kidnapped Storm to save his dying planet. He eventually fell for her and she fell for him in return. He did not kidnap her out of lust. 

What does that have to do with anything?  Lust is not a requirement.

The point I was trying to make is what does the Arkon situation have to do with rape? There was not a sexual element at all in his initial interest in Storm. It was all about kidnapping her to force her to save his planet. I was just asking for clarification on how this had to do with rape culture is all.

In the case with Doom, the X men attacked his castle without any provocation from him and he bested them initially. After the whole ordeal, he apologized to Storm and expressed interest in her before she left. He asked for a fresh start, essentially. She was receptive to the idea What does this situation have to do with rape culture?

I can kinda sorta see an element of who you are saying in the Khan situation now that I think about it and definite in the Dracula thing. When I yhink of rape, I think of one human being doing something of a sexual nature to another human being against their will. I just don't see that in the Doom, Loki, Arkon and Namor situation. I didn't not read that story arc, but from what I gathered, Marvel merely had the two characters fall in love with each other and paired them for that reason alone.

What I take this to mean is when these characters meet Ororo, they are drawn to her because she's such an impressive individual with the strength of her character and her striking appearance that they eventually end up wanting to win over her heart. When they try to win her over, it's not done in a forceful way, but they try and do it legitimately save for the Khan and Dracula instances. I believe it's meant to be a positive thing speaking of how dynamic and impressive she is rather than having anything to do with rape.

I'm just asking for an explanation for what Princess said. How is this making her a piece of meat just because she has many would be suitors trying to win her heart? If a woman in real life is so beautiful and charismatic that she has many men out there that want to get to know her with the hopes of marrying her as their intentions are honorable, it does not have anything to do with rape. In Ororo's case, though most of these men end up wanting to go the honorable route with her, she doesn't go for them because they are either villains (Doom) or they live so far away it would take her away from everyone and everything she loves (Arkon).

I'm not seeing Princesa's point with most of the guys that show interest in Ororo. Just asking for someone to explain it to me.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #766 on: July 29, 2014, 10:02:36 am »
The point I was making is this: of all the X-women, which one is the most regal and ethereal? Storm. If one wanted a queen, Storm would be their choice. Arkon originally kidnapped Storm to save his dying planet. He eventually fell for her and she fell for him in return. He did not kidnap her out of lust. 
Sorry Bro kidnapping a woman for selfish reasons no matter how "noble" it is; is still kidnapping and taking this woman by force.

Agreed,but there was no sexual motivation behind it at all, so how does this tie into rape? Princesa's said that Storm is just treated as a piece of meat by these men which implies that they just want to have sex with her. I disagree with her totally on this point. Even they eventually desire to be with her intimately, they try and go about it in an honorable way through by trying to court her and offering her a throne.
 
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #767 on: July 29, 2014, 10:12:51 am »
Rutgog

Know what I call a man who tries to make a woman his "true mate" against her will? A rapist. Know what I call the romanticizing of that type story? Rape Culture. The X Verse is full of that.Like Emma stealing Storm's body so Shaw could rape her.Arkon Dracula Emma Shaw ,mind swiped into an intimate relationship with Namor....on and on. I recall Hudlin saying about the marriage I'm paraphrasing heavily at least Storm won't be subject to continuous sexual assault now. I am appalled and sickened by your commentary on this.

Your problem is Arkon did not kidnap Storm to force her to be his mate. Shaw slept with Emma, not Ororo, as Emma wore Ororo's form shaw has never expressed interest in Storm. He's never desires to be with her intimately or to date her. In the case with Namor, both characters would have been mind wiped to be with each other, so your argument of it bring a rape thing against Ororo fails since it would also apply to him in this case. He did not rape her as both were in wipes into ring in a relationship. I didn't read the story, though. From what I gathered it's like a quasi alternate reality thing.
 It doesn't fit the rape thing you're talking about.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline BmoreAkuma

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #768 on: July 29, 2014, 10:16:57 am »
She was taken by force and then suddenly he "falls in love" with the same woman he taken away by force. That is something sick and very twisted logic. Didn't Ariel Castro do the same thing? He kidnapped women by force and "fell in love" with these women. The only difference is that he had no "kingdom" to be saved.

I know you're having fun trollin Heffas but seriously this isnt a proper counter argument.
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Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #769 on: July 29, 2014, 10:30:12 am »
She was taken by force and then suddenly he "falls in love" with the same woman he taken away by force. That is something sick and very twisted logic. Didn't Ariel Castro do the same thing? He kidnapped women by force and "fell in love" with these women. The only difference is that he had no "kingdom" to be saved.

I know you're having fun trollin Heffas but seriously this isnt a proper counter argument.

They fell in love with each other despite the rocky beginning. She was able to see past what he did into his noble soul. He's a good guy who made a big mistake. Getting past that, each saw in the other what they desired for love.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Mad Coco G

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #770 on: July 29, 2014, 10:34:09 am »
Rutgog

Know what I call a man who tries to make a woman his "true mate" against her will? A rapist. Know what I call the romanticizing of that type story? Rape Culture. The X Verse is full of that.Like Emma stealing Storm's body so Shaw could rape her.Arkon Dracula Emma Shaw ,mind swiped into an intimate relationship with Namor....on and on. I recall Hudlin saying about the marriage I'm paraphrasing heavily at least Storm won't be subject to continuous sexual assault now. I am appalled and sickened by your commentary on this.

The point I was making is this: of all the X-women, which one is the most regal and ethereal? Storm. If one wanted a queen, Storm would be their choice. Arkon originally kidnapped Storm to save his dying planet. He eventually fell for her and she fell for him in return. He did not kidnap her out of lust. The Storm/Namor thing counts like a quasi alternate reality where the two were in love with each other. There'snothing wrong with Storm sleeping with a man she is wedded to. It has nothing to do with "rape culture" with the Namor dynamic. Khan tried to win Storm over legitimately, but she was turned off by his warlord, conquering dimensions nature. This does not fit the rape culture thing you are talking about either. Same applies to Dr. Doom's attraction to Ororo. The only situation that the rape stuff really is applicable to is Dracula and Storm bested him in Uncanny 159. She has never been raped.


That's all bs weak sauce you just posted, hell she's not even rebelling against anything despite being back in the "fan fav" rebel mohawk. All I've seen is submissiveness and pining for old man Logan which is the complete opposite of being a rebel let alone regal

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #771 on: July 29, 2014, 11:29:09 am »
Okay. Going too far with this one, people.

So. Rape, and Kidnapping? Here's a simple ILLUMINATION:

The common modern definition of rape is this:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape

rape1   [reyp]  Show IPA
noun
1.
the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.
2.
any act of sexual intercourse that is forced upon a person.

The ARCHAIC definition is this:

an act of plunder, violent seizure, or abuse; despoliation; violation: the rape of the countryside.
5.
Archaic. the act of seizing and carrying off by force.


verb (used with object), raped, rap·ing.
6. to force to have sexual intercourse.
7. to plunder (a place); despoil.
8.to seize, take, or carry off by force.





The modern definition of rape? Storm...with her mind AND body unified...has never been raped. Stop it, yall.

I haven't read the whole Dracula thing, but it's my understanding that he gave it a go. And got smashed for his attempt. Princesa? Rutog? Is that correct?

Emma and Sebastian Shaw? THAT WAS RAPE. Shaw RAPED STORM'S BODY. Storm did not give Shaw permission to have sexual intercourse with her body, and she didn't give Emma permission to separate her mind from her body. Emma deeply personally violated Storm with her psi powers, for which frankly I would kill her if I were in Storm's place. [ Clearly, Storm is a "better person" than I am; I would unashamedly unabashedly kill Emma ].

Storm's mind was ripped from her body, and I seem to recall reading of there being repeated instances of mental rape performed upon Storm over the decades. Rutog, Princesa...am I right about this?

Under the ARCHAIC definition, Storm has definitely been raped. Arkon "raped" her when he "forcibly carried her off" [ kidnap ]. In the same breath? Arkon actually IS/WAS a good guy.He was pushed to seriously severe extremes and did what many people would have done.

Hell, OUR own MARVEL ILLUMINATI are about to do much, much worse than he ever has. They're gonna destroy a planet.

But did Arkon force Storm to have sex with him? NO. So that's not SEXUAL rape in the way that this charge is being used.

Neither did Loki, Kang, Forge, etc.

Namor and Storm? Not rape. Stupid? Deliberately designed to diss TChalla and Storm's marriage? Tacky? Petty? Immature? Abrasive? Offensive? Probably racist?

Yes.

Rape?

No.

But...here's the thing.

This series of actions IS A PATTERN. It DEFINITELY shows that the X-Office is in to some real borderline stuff, and has a distinctly misogynist, racist AND racial [ two different things ] theme running throughout their books. If the X-Books haven't cultivated a Rape Culture...they haven't...they have cultivated a DEVIANT culture wherein such charges as "Rape Culture" can be quite believable and even credible in certain arcs of the book because the X-Office deliberately explores X-rated material stepped down to The Comic Code and translated via a virtually colonial mindset of racism, elitism, etc. combined with the "outer fringe radical element of society counterculture" thing which shocks those of us who are not "out there" like they are.

You ever see Jean Grey come to Scott's rescue as he is being sexually menaced by some female supervillain? It's not like Moondragon couldn't rape the crap out of Logan's, Peter's, or Scott's mind AND body if she didn't want to. Emma could do the same. Selene...the Hellfire Club's Black Queen...should have easily been able to do the same. I don't believe that she's REALLY dead, and X-Force prolly doesn't either. Selene was mad powerful. Ascended to being a goddes, right? She was supposed to be a vaunted, ancient sorceress, right? Speaking of sorceresses... Morgan Le Fey, anyone?

Have you ever seen Shadowcat bust in to save Wolverine from the unwanted otherworldly advances of a lethal Japanese Kami? No? You ever see Storm come in and start tuh slappin and lightning bolting and power blasting sirens and she-vamps as they are about to have orgies with X-Guys and then murder/eat them? No? Have you ever seen a single White alpha male X-Man sexually menaced by a supervillainess?

Even if you could think of one...like Madelyne Pryor during that whole Goblin Queen thing where she even seduced Havok...you could likely only think OF ONE. When the tables are turned? We're looking at decades long themes.

Who thinks that say...Warbird [ the Kree or whatever alien race she was version ]...couldn't slap around chain up and rape the crap out of say...some New Mutant guys? Even Wolverine? But we never see such a thing, do we? We don't even see it being hinted at.


You get my point.

Are the X-Office X-cepting stories glorifying Rape Culture?

No.

Are they cultivating an environment wherein such a thing as Rape Culture could sidle up on the readers in subtle form? Ya know...like bondage S&M stuff?







Yes.

And everyone...including them...knows it.

To be fair? Since the departure of CC during his initial run, there has been a distinct downturn in the clearly S&M bondage-like outfits and visuals...but still, the whole sexual thing and S&M thing is pretty clear.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 05:43:31 pm by supreme illuminati »
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Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #772 on: July 29, 2014, 11:44:32 am »
Emma deeply personally violated Storm with her psi powers, for which frankly I would kill her if I were in Storm's place. [ Clearly, Storm is a "better person" than I am; I would unashamedly unabashedly kill Emma ].






Quick question, Supreme:
How can you be able kill someone who has the ability to take over your mind?  ???



I'll read your reply offline while I go take a wiz.  :)

Offline sinjection1

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #773 on: July 29, 2014, 01:32:44 pm »
Rutgog

Know what I call a man who tries to make a woman his "true mate" against her will? A rapist. Know what I call the romanticizing of that type story? Rape Culture. The X Verse is full of that.Like Emma stealing Storm's body so Shaw could rape her.Arkon Dracula Emma Shaw ,mind swiped into an intimate relationship with Namor....on and on. I recall Hudlin saying about the marriage I'm paraphrasing heavily at least Storm won't be subject to continuous sexual assault now. I am appalled and sickened by your commentary on this.

Princesa!

I am almost moved to tears by this EXCELLENT and ACCURATE recounting and description of these odious events regarding Ororo and her "noble suitors". You will remove the scales from Rutog's eyes yet. If I were to hear his response to your comment, I wouldn't, for they would fall on deaf ears. As this is a visual medium, I will turn a blind eye to anything he might have by way of defense to this indefensible and disgusting interval in Storm's depiction by the x-writers.

Powerful! Powerful!

Well Done, Princesa!!

And Ororo was not written down to prop up Shuri, Rutog. You know better than that  ;)

There is a segment of people out there that do get off on 'rape culture'; it's like any other sexual fetish where when white folks indulge in it, it's acceptable and the X-writers/editorial are simply capitalizing on it.

Yeah, I agree...   Princesa definitely nailed it.

Exactly so, Battle. Well said, Brother.

Look at Psylocke as illustrated by Jim Lee. She is wearing what amounts to a thong and boots with a stiletto heels. Eye candy. But in light of recent events, it's eye candy that could be rotting the minds of some readers. It's an X-Man-created peep show. I seem to remember a cover of an X-Man comic featuring Storm rendered so that her naked buttocks were actually in full view. This is a slippery slope.

 Princesa brings up this subject at the most perfect time. During this most recent Comic Con, some women complained of being groped and having their pictures taken without permission. The Carol Danvers rape story; the PANTHER'S QUEST story written by Don McGregor in which Ramonda was actually kidnapped, raped repeatedly and the pictures of her violation sent to T'Chaka who was powerless to find his wife and rescue her...DC Comics' Dr Light's rape of...I forget what her name --- Plastic Man's wife, I think she was.....could these images of scantily-clad females and females such as Ororo, grabbed and smooched by these "noble suitors" be sending the wrong kind of signal to some potentially-troubled fanboys...perhaps those who the ladies at ComicCon complained were groping them and ogling them?

When a man grabs a woman and kisses her without the woman's invitation to do so and quite by surprise, in most instances that is a violation of her person. When Hawkeye grabbed Valkyrie while he was a member of the Defenders, Valkyrie nearly took his head off with her sword. But then...in typical fanboy-pleasing fashion, Valkyrie smiled and thought to herself that Hawkeye's univited, unexpected smooch wasn't "wholly unpleasant". This is a situation written in a comicbook aimed directly at the fantasies of the male libido.
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Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #774 on: July 29, 2014, 01:48:45 pm »
Emma deeply personally violated Storm with her psi powers, for which frankly I would kill her if I were in Storm's place. [ Clearly, Storm is a "better person" than I am; I would unashamedly unabashedly kill Emma ].






Quick question, Supreme:
How can you be able kill someone who has the ability to take over your mind?  ???



I'll read your reply offline while I go take a wiz.  :)

In the past, Storm has used her powers to mind shock telepaths who try to peer into her thoughts; it's an extremely effective tactic and power to use and have. Raise thee ole electro shockers. Don psi-blocker tech [ Forge has that stuff and a lot more hanging around, and he gifted Prof. X with them. Hank McCoy can either build them himself or rustle up his fellow big brains to whip em out; and of course TChalla has TONS of them hanging around; which mysteriously WASN'T AROUND when the SK invaded his brains under Yost's pen ]. Proceed to off da tramp.

 There ya go.
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Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #775 on: July 29, 2014, 01:53:56 pm »
Rutgog

Know what I call a man who tries to make a woman his "true mate" against her will? A rapist. Know what I call the romanticizing of that type story? Rape Culture. The X Verse is full of that.Like Emma stealing Storm's body so Shaw could rape her.Arkon Dracula Emma Shaw ,mind swiped into an intimate relationship with Namor....on and on. I recall Hudlin saying about the marriage I'm paraphrasing heavily at least Storm won't be subject to continuous sexual assault now. I am appalled and sickened by your commentary on this.


Princesa!

I am almost moved to tears by this EXCELLENT and ACCURATE recounting and description of these odious events regarding Ororo and her "noble suitors". You will remove the scales from Rutog's eyes yet. If I were to hear his response to your comment, I wouldn't, for they would fall on deaf ears. As this is a visual medium, I will turn a blind eye to anything he might have by way of defense to this indefensible and disgusting interval in Storm's depiction by the x-writers.

Powerful! Powerful!

Well Done, Princesa!!

And Ororo was not written down to prop up Shuri, Rutog. You know better than that  ;)


There is a segment of people out there that do get off on 'rape culture'; it's like any other sexual fetish where when white folks indulge in it, it's acceptable and the X-writers/editorial are simply capitalizing on it.

Yeah, I agree...   Princesa definitely nailed it.


Exactly so, Battle. Well said, Brother.

Look at Psylocke as illustrated by Jim Lee. She is wearing what amounts to a thong and boots with a stiletto heels. Eye candy. But in light of recent events, it's eye candy that could be rotting the minds of some readers. It's an X-Man-created peep show. I seem to remember a cover of an X-Man comic featuring Storm rendered so that her naked buttocks were actually in full view. This is a slippery slope.

 Princesa brings up this subject at the most perfect time. During this most recent Comic Con, some women complained of being groped and having their pictures taken without permission. The Carol Danvers rape story; the PANTHER'S QUEST story written by Don McGregor in which Ramonda was actually kidnapped, raped repeatedly and the pictures of her violation sent to T'Chaka who was powerless to find his wife and rescue her...DC Comics' Dr Light's rape of...I forget what her name --- Plastic Man's wife, I think she was.....could these images of scantily-clad females and females such as Ororo, grabbed and smooched by these "noble suitors" be sending the wrong kind of signal to some potentially-troubled fanboys...perhaps those who the ladies at ComicCon complained were groping them and ogling them?

When a man grabs a woman and kisses her without the woman's invitation to do so and quite by surprise, in most instances that is a violation of her person. When Hawkeye grabbed Valkyrie while he was a member of the Defenders, Valkyrie nearly took his head off with her sword. But then...in typical fanboy-pleasing fashion, Valkyrie smiled and thought to herself that Hawkeye's univited, unexpected smooch wasn't "wholly unpleasant". This is a situation written in a comicbook aimed directly at the fantasies of the male libido.


Well, we already know how the much maligned (by X-fan idiots) Reginald Hudlind gets down a far as portraying strong women is concerned.....






None of that I am a male feminist Brian Wood type faux BS

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #776 on: July 29, 2014, 02:13:47 pm »
When a man grabs a woman and kisses her without the woman's invitation to do so and quite by surprise, in most instances that is a violation of her person. When Hawkeye grabbed Valkyrie while he was a member of the Defenders, Valkyrie nearly took his head off with her sword. But then...in typical fanboy-pleasing fashion, Valkyrie smiled and thought to herself that Hawkeye's univited, unexpected smooch wasn't "wholly unpleasant". This is a situation written in a comicbook aimed directly at the fantasies of the male libido.




Hell, I remember in Avengers #189 when Hawkeye worked security nightshifts at Cross Technological Enterprises, fought and defeated Deathbird where she issues a threat to him after being captured and Hawkeye's response...?

He grabs hers and kisses her against her will while security was escorting her away in bondage!

I'm quite certain, the Avengers creative team thought that scene was real funny 30+ years ago but in hindsight, the scenario plays out as a form of sexual assault.  I'd love to reach into my stacks and read the letters page to see what the feedback was to those panels.

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #777 on: July 29, 2014, 02:16:48 pm »
She-Hulk once surprised and kissed Hercules.

Kissing someone by surprised had been used in fiction by both sexes for decades.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 03:45:21 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #778 on: July 29, 2014, 02:26:01 pm »
Quick question, Supreme:
How can you be able kill someone who has the ability to take over your mind?  ???



I'll read your reply offline while I go take a wiz.  :)

Quote
In the past, Storm has used her powers to mind shock telepaths who try to peer into her thoughts; it's an extremely effective tactic and power to use and have. Raise thee ole electro shockers. Don psi-blocker tech [ Forge has that stuff and a lot more hanging around, and he gifted Prof. X with them. Hank McCoy can either build them himself or rustle up his fellow big brains to whip em out; and of course TChalla has TONS of them hanging around; which mysteriously WASN'T AROUND when the SK invaded his brains under Yost's pen ]. Proceed to off da tramp.

 There ya go.



Thanks for your reply.
You da man, Supreme!  :)



You really should stories for MARVEL.  It's a damn shame that bros like yourself are not assigned write the stories I'd like to see and read.  If you were writing X-Men,  that would get me back into reading comicbooks.  :)

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #779 on: July 29, 2014, 02:38:26 pm »
She-Hulk one surprised and kissed Hercules.

Kissing someone by surprised had been used in fiction by both sexes for decades.




You're absolutely right but can you do something like that today?

The example I gave was a dynamic between hero and villain not between two heroes.