Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 400246 times)

Offline Rutog98

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1308
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1890 on: March 30, 2015, 04:32:34 pm »
Regarding Thorette's book, I still maintain that she's riding off of Thor's coat tails. Thor built the popularity and the fanbase. Marvel created for Thor a world of his own for his solo book. Storm has yet to get that in her solo title. This first year should have been used to do just that, to build Storm a rogue's gallery of villains that posed credible threats to her in battle and challenged her in a variety of ways. It should have created friends for her as well unique  to her book. Female Thor has inherited all of this from male Thor. I don't think its a fair comparison.

Also, the fact that Storm's solo title started out at 47K+ and went down to so drastically in such a short amount of time indicates that its the stories and artwork that's the problem, not the character. Furthermore, the book could do with better marketing and advertising. Wasn't Thorette's book also hyped up in the news or "The View" or something like that?


All I'm saying is a "Storm" solo title has SO much potential that has yet to be tapped into. This first year has not been "electrifying" and that's exactly what the stories should have been for the very first year. I don't know why Pak chose to start with such small stories. Big and exciting stories work for other solo titles, so this approach should have been applied to Ororo's book as well since its tried and true.

That said, I still submit that Pak is a good writer for Storm's book, he just needs to do bigger stories and create a world for her separate from the X-Men. So far, regarding Storm's foes for this first year, what has happened is tantamount to starting out a brand new Superman or Dr. Strange title for the very first time and having Superman fight characters like Joker and Penguin or Strange fight Venom and Green Goblin for the whole first year their titles debuted. With all of their powers, that would be a disappointment and the sales would suffer from that. Same thing applies to Storm's book.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 04:51:42 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5875
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1891 on: March 30, 2015, 06:53:28 pm »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )

Offline Salustrade

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1310
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1892 on: March 30, 2015, 07:05:05 pm »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )



Offline Kristopher

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1229
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1893 on: March 30, 2015, 07:06:13 pm »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )


Whoomp there it is!

« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 07:12:33 pm by Kristopher »

Offline Rutog98

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1308
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1894 on: March 30, 2015, 07:06:24 pm »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )

This is not true. At the time Storm joined the ranks of the X-Men, the book was just being ressurected after being cancelled for years. Storm and Wolverine were the two characters that soared to the top in terms of popularity in the title. As a matter of fact, during the X-Men's greatest era, Storm's character was the driving force behind the title.  It was very obvious that Storm was CC's favorite character and she was the center of the book during what most would call the best era in terms of the writing of the book. Storm did NOT ride on the coat tails of the X-Men because those coat tails were non-existant when she came onboard. In many ways, she carried the book and made the stories great. What CC did with her character brought a certain depth of characterization and writing to the book that remains unparalled at any other time in X-histoy to this day.

The problems with the title are as I have already outlined in the previous two pages of this thread.

Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.

Also, many Black readers DO like Storm.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 07:08:56 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Kristopher

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1229
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1895 on: March 30, 2015, 07:22:53 pm »
Oh well, most Marvel books will cease during the whole Secret Wars thing, including "Storm". After the reshuffling of the Marvel universe, some books will return...some won't. I'm sure that since Storm is the most popular female Marvel character, she'll return in a new solo series. Maybe her hair will be long and pretty again (I'm trying to hold back the laughter).

Offline Salustrade

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1310
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1896 on: March 30, 2015, 08:38:53 pm »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )


This is not true. At the time Storm joined the ranks of the X-Men, the book was just being ressurected after being cancelled for years. Storm and Wolverine were the two characters that soared to the top in terms of popularity in the title. As a matter of fact, during the X-Men's greatest era, Storm's character was the driving force behind the title.  It was very obvious that Storm was CC's favorite character and she was the center of the book during what most would call the best era in terms of the writing of the book. Storm did NOT ride on the coat tails of the X-Men because those coat tails were non-existant when she came onboard. In many ways, she carried the book and made the stories great. What CC did with her character brought a certain depth of characterization and writing to the book that remains unparalled at any other time in X-histoy to this day.

The problems with the title are as I have already outlined in the previous two pages of this thread.

Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.

Also, many Black readers DO like Storm.



Offline KidKamikaze10

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 150
  • Some Nigerian Guy
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1897 on: March 31, 2015, 05:08:18 am »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )

This is not true. At the time Storm joined the ranks of the X-Men, the book was just being ressurected after being cancelled for years. Storm and Wolverine were the two characters that soared to the top in terms of popularity in the title. As a matter of fact, during the X-Men's greatest era, Storm's character was the driving force behind the title.  It was very obvious that Storm was CC's favorite character and she was the center of the book during what most would call the best era in terms of the writing of the book. Storm did NOT ride on the coat tails of the X-Men because those coat tails were non-existant when she came onboard. In many ways, she carried the book and made the stories great. What CC did with her character brought a certain depth of characterization and writing to the book that remains unparalled at any other time in X-histoy to this day.

The problems with the title are as I have already outlined in the previous two pages of this thread.

Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.

Also, many Black readers DO like Storm.

If she was designed to be a solo character, she would have started off as one.  Or shortly after.

Like Hawkeye, she could have been built as one.  Pak instead used the X-Men as her crutch.  Compare the two.  Hawkeye had references and Avengers showing up in his title.  But his title was about him.  It wasn't about further pushing the Avengers agenda, thus making his book redundant.  It was about him being him.  The hero, the man himself, and the lives he directly effects.

In contrast, Pak decided to try to make Storm "action packed", without truly building roots within the title.  The direction, the threats, the goal; they all felt derivative with the rest of the X-Titles.  Before having her go on a world tour, saving humans and mutants alike, Pak chose not to establish Storm as Storm.

She was just Storm, member of the X-Men.  Without the Avengers, Hawkeye still has plenty of work with.  Without the X-Men, Wolverine has more than enough to work with.  Without the X-Men, what is Storm?


Pak chose not to clearly answer that.  And thus, people didn't see the title as must read.  Instead, it was filler.

Offline Battle

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 9282
  • M.A.X. Commander
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1898 on: March 31, 2015, 08:03:10 am »
Rocket Raccoon is outselling Storm?!


Really...?  ;D

Offline Kristopher

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1229
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1899 on: March 31, 2015, 08:54:00 am »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )

This is not true. At the time Storm joined the ranks of the X-Men, the book was just being ressurected after being cancelled for years. Storm and Wolverine were the two characters that soared to the top in terms of popularity in the title. As a matter of fact, during the X-Men's greatest era, Storm's character was the driving force behind the title.  It was very obvious that Storm was CC's favorite character and she was the center of the book during what most would call the best era in terms of the writing of the book. Storm did NOT ride on the coat tails of the X-Men because those coat tails were non-existant when she came onboard. In many ways, she carried the book and made the stories great. What CC did with her character brought a certain depth of characterization and writing to the book that remains unparalled at any other time in X-histoy to this day.

The problems with the title are as I have already outlined in the previous two pages of this thread.

Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.

Also, many Black readers DO like Storm.

If she was designed to be a solo character, she would have started off as one.  Or shortly after.

Like Hawkeye, she could have been built as one.  Pak instead used the X-Men as her crutch.  Compare the two.  Hawkeye had references and Avengers showing up in his title.  But his title was about him.  It wasn't about further pushing the Avengers agenda, thus making his book redundant.  It was about him being him.  The hero, the man himself, and the lives he directly effects.

In contrast, Pak decided to try to make Storm "action packed", without truly building roots within the title.  The direction, the threats, the goal; they all felt derivative with the rest of the X-Titles.  Before having her go on a world tour, saving humans and mutants alike, Pak chose not to establish Storm as Storm.

She was just Storm, member of the X-Men.  Without the Avengers, Hawkeye still has plenty of work with.  Without the X-Men, Wolverine has more than enough to work with.  Without the X-Men, what is Storm?


Pak chose not to clearly answer that.  And thus, people didn't see the title as must read.  Instead, it was filler.

Yeah, they should have just named the book "Storm and The X-Men".

Offline A.Curry

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1900 on: March 31, 2015, 09:54:31 am »
And Storm road the popularity of the X-Men.  If she wasn't a member of the X-Men during their height,  she would be as popular as Hellcat.

And see that is the problem.   No matter how popular you think she is,  1/2 of that popularity is because of the team,  not her as a character.   In fact that is why she never was given a solo run until now and it's falling.   She was never designed to be a solo player.   

(It is also the reason she isn't strongly identified with the Black community.   She isn't Black hero who is an X-Men,  she is an X-Men first,  a mutant second,  a woman third and then if there is any story room left,  she is Black.   A solo title didn't change that. )

This is not true. At the time Storm joined the ranks of the X-Men, the book was just being ressurected after being cancelled for years. Storm and Wolverine were the two characters that soared to the top in terms of popularity in the title. As a matter of fact, during the X-Men's greatest era, Storm's character was the driving force behind the title.  It was very obvious that Storm was CC's favorite character and she was the center of the book during what most would call the best era in terms of the writing of the book. Storm did NOT ride on the coat tails of the X-Men because those coat tails were non-existant when she came onboard. In many ways, she carried the book and made the stories great. What CC did with her character brought a certain depth of characterization and writing to the book that remains unparalled at any other time in X-histoy to this day.

The problems with the title are as I have already outlined in the previous two pages of this thread.

Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.

Also, many Black readers DO like Storm.

If she was designed to be a solo character, she would have started off as one.  Or shortly after.

Like Hawkeye, she could have been built as one.  Pak instead used the X-Men as her crutch.  Compare the two.  Hawkeye had references and Avengers showing up in his title.  But his title was about him.  It wasn't about further pushing the Avengers agenda, thus making his book redundant.  It was about him being him.  The hero, the man himself, and the lives he directly effects.

In contrast, Pak decided to try to make Storm "action packed", without truly building roots within the title.  The direction, the threats, the goal; they all felt derivative with the rest of the X-Titles.  Before having her go on a world tour, saving humans and mutants alike, Pak chose not to establish Storm as Storm.

She was just Storm, member of the X-Men.  Without the Avengers, Hawkeye still has plenty of work with.  Without the X-Men, Wolverine has more than enough to work with.  Without the X-Men, what is Storm?


Pak chose not to clearly answer that.  And thus, people didn't see the title as must read.  Instead, it was filler.

Said this before about all of the XMen except Wolverine, who came built with his own story and past outside the Xmen, and who has multiple lifetimes to build stories on.  Comparing his potential for story to that of Storm is ridiculous.

As far as building her as a solo character, agree as well and said before: Pak not only told boring and typical type xmen stories (the whole mutant agenda, an island that hates mutants, her taking care of Logan's past business instead of any of her own, Callisto,her lacking her own business, etc.) he did nothing to cement her in her own world nor used anything from her individual past and origins to build upon.  Pair that with mediocre artwork and it was bound to fail.  If this was important to Marvel they should've put more into it.

Offline KIP LEWIS

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 5875
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1901 on: March 31, 2015, 10:13:51 am »
Rutog:   Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.   

You do realize your first sentence is contradicted by your  second.   It wasn't Marvel's intention,  means she wasn't designed to be a solo hero.

And what you call rich background is exactly why she doesn't work as a solo.   All those elements that keep getting added onto her backstory (mystic heritage,  princess, genetically all human races,  etc) means they don't know what to do with her.  (In fact it means she is a borderline Mary Sue character,  but this is comics so she is not alone in that aspect.  It's not really a negative. )

Simple background are actually the more successful solo characters.   Look at Spider-Man,  simply an orphan nerd who gets powers.   Thor,  grew up the son of Odin.   Carl Danvers,  air force officer.   Black Widow,  orphan raised in the Red Room.   Superman,  son of alien scientist sent to earth,  raised by farmers.   Batman,  orphan who see his parents killed and choose to fight crime.   A complex varied backstory is actually the evidence that she is not a solid sustainable.  They keep adding things to make her interesting.

And Cyclops wasn't designed to be a solo character either.  He is Mr. X-Man.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

Wolverine was created as a solo character,  but he too has become a Mary Sue.   But the proof of his popularity is that the character sells no matter how bad the writing and the art is.   When Wolverine solo started the stories and art weren't all that earth shattering.  They fell far short of the Miller mini.

Offline Mad Coco G

  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 483
  • I'm a villain
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1902 on: March 31, 2015, 10:18:15 am »
Those figures don't prove that Storm is less popular (she's more popular) as all they show is the stories told in the series simply did not connect with readers. I think the problem is Pak started too slow.


Or maybe "Bunny" Colvin is juking the stats?




Best refrence ever

Offline Rutog98

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 1308
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1903 on: March 31, 2015, 12:10:28 pm »
Rutog:   Your claim that Storm was never designed to be a solo character is not true. While it may not have been Marvel's intention, with the diverse canon/back story establshed about her in canon, there is more than enough material there for Storm to carry her own solo title even moreso than Wolverine. Your claims would hold true about an X-Man not having enough material to carry their own title if they were applied to Cyclops or Jean Grey, but not Ororo. I've gone on at length about this months ago in this thread.   

You do realize your first sentence is contradicted by your  second.   It wasn't Marvel's intention,  means she wasn't designed to be a solo hero.

And what you call rich background is exactly why she doesn't work as a solo.   All those elements that keep getting added onto her backstory (mystic heritage,  princess, genetically all human races,  etc) means they don't know what to do with her.  (In fact it means she is a borderline Mary Sue character,  but this is comics so she is not alone in that aspect.  It's not really a negative. )

Simple background are actually the more successful solo characters.   Look at Spider-Man,  simply an orphan nerd who gets powers.   Thor,  grew up the son of Odin.   Carl Danvers,  air force officer.   Black Widow,  orphan raised in the Red Room.   Superman,  son of alien scientist sent to earth,  raised by farmers.   Batman,  orphan who see his parents killed and choose to fight crime.   A complex varied backstory is actually the evidence that she is not a solid sustainable.  They keep adding things to make her interesting.

And Cyclops wasn't designed to be a solo character either.  He is Mr. X-Man.  And there is nothing wrong with that.

Wolverine was created as a solo character,  but he too has become a Mary Sue.   But the proof of his popularity is that the character sells no matter how bad the writing and the art is.   When Wolverine solo started the stories and art weren't all that earth shattering.  They fell far short of the Miller mini.

I could have worded my first two sentences better. While she was not originally intended to be a solo character, what has been done with her character in the X-books makes it easy to go the solo direction with her. All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book. Also, the artwork is REAL bad now and that needs to change.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:15:50 pm by Rutog98 »
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Curtis Metcalf

  • Honorary Wakandan
  • *****
  • Posts: 4501
  • One never knows, do one?
    • View Profile
Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1904 on: March 31, 2015, 02:01:10 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:03:45 pm by Curtis Metcalf »
"Seek first to understand, then to be understood."
"Be hard on systems, but soft on people."