Author Topic: New Storm Ongoing Title  (Read 398169 times)

Offline Salustrade

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1905 on: March 31, 2015, 02:07:01 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.

I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"


Going by his Planet Hulk work, Pak is a great writer.

Unfortunately, most great writers lose their mojo when they drink from the X-office poisoned chalice.


Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1906 on: March 31, 2015, 02:50:39 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Pak is good when writing the Hulk.  But just because you can tell a good Hulk story doesn't make you good on every character.   

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1907 on: March 31, 2015, 04:43:27 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

Offline Battle

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1908 on: March 31, 2015, 05:07:58 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Pak is good when writing the Hulk.  But just because you can tell a good Hulk story doesn't make you good on every character.



There it is.

Offline KidKamikaze10

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1909 on: March 31, 2015, 05:43:25 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

With what an inferior writer (Fraction) did with Hawkeye and Iron Fist (or maybe it was more Aja), I can't buy it.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1910 on: March 31, 2015, 05:50:17 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

I don't know what you mean "given what they had to work with...". There is plenty of material to work with for Storm. Her character is so multi-fasceted that a solo title is needed to explore/flesh out the fullness of it. Instead exploring these unexplored avenues of her character, Pak started out by going down the same old road a ton of other writers travelled when they wanted to write a "Storm-centric" story in the X-Men books. There were no exciting villains for her to fight this first year, she hasn't faced a single threat in combat that she could not easily overwhelm in a split second with any number of minor applications of her powers, the art is bad, the hairdo is ugly, etc. Comicbook readership is a male-dominated demographic. If you're going to write a female-led solo title, the least you can do is make her attractive.

If the book gets a makeover for year two, if Pak is replaced as the writer, my fear is the next person to come on board may not have a good grasp of Ororo's powers and all that she can do with them. They may also be ignorant of her extreme mental defenses against telepathy. Pak at least got her powers right.

Anyway, I've already said all of this stuff on the previous pages of this thread. A Storm solo title could do very well and there is a wealth of potential to be told here. Even if I can't write a "Storm" solo book, I'd be willing to sell my ideas to Marvel (yeah, like that opportunity will ever come into being, lol!)...
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1911 on: March 31, 2015, 05:56:27 pm »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

With what an inferior writer (Fraction) did with Hawkeye and Iron Fist (or maybe it was more Aja), I can't buy it.

The writing was good but the art on Iron Fist and Hawkeye was awful!

Offline KIP LEWIS

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1912 on: March 31, 2015, 06:04:56 pm »


If the book gets a makeover for year two, if Pak is replaced as the writer, my fear is the next person to come on board may not have a good grasp of Ororo's powers and all that she can do with them. They may also be ignorant of her extreme mental defenses against telepathy. Pak at least got her powers right.

Given what is coming,  including the suggestion that the X-Universe well be separated from the main universe,  Storm and everyone may not be the woman you knew after Secret Wars.  This is especially true since a new creative team is taking over from Bendis. 

« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 06:10:04 pm by KIP LEWIS »

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1913 on: March 31, 2015, 06:09:16 pm »


All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.

Given what is coming,  including the suggestion that the X-Universe well be separated from the main universe,  Storm and everyone may not be the woman you knew after Secret Wars.  This is especially true since a new creative team is taking over from Bendis. 



If the book gets a makeover for year two, if Pak is replaced as the writer, my fear is the next person to come on board may not have a good grasp of Ororo's powers and all that she can do with them. They may also be ignorant of her extreme mental defenses against telepathy. Pak at least got her powers right.



I'm concerned about this. If they change too much in Storm to where she is unrecognizable, if they take all the elements out of the character that makes her tick (at least for me), then I'm out. I'm going to go back on my comicbook hiatus.
[/quote]
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1914 on: April 01, 2015, 07:08:52 am »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

With what an inferior writer (Fraction) did with Hawkeye and Iron Fist (or maybe it was more Aja), I can't buy it.

The Hawkeye series worked because it both directly deconstructed Hawkeyes status as team ace (yes, hes the greatest archer on the planet but his sidekick is better at everything else than he is) and built off his working class man-of the-people vibe. Iron Fist introduced a Mortal Kombat-esq cast of characters for Iron Fist to hang out with and or fight.

Storm isnt a man of the people (shes kind of the opposite of that) nor is she a Kung Fu lady that needs Kung Fu buddies to Kung Fu at.

I didn't think giving Storm, Cyclops or Nightcrawler solo books was a good idea from the beginning. That those books are being cancelled one by one is just reality setting in.

(shrugs)

Offline A.Curry

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1915 on: April 01, 2015, 07:34:18 am »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

I actually really enjoyed Warren Ellis Storm in Astonishing Xmen.

I'm not sure it would have sold either way, but I do think Pak wrote a mediocre and status quo take on the character that challenged nothing

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1916 on: April 01, 2015, 08:26:33 am »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

With what an inferior writer (Fraction) did with Hawkeye and Iron Fist (or maybe it was more Aja), I can't buy it.

The Hawkeye series worked because it both directly deconstructed Hawkeyes status as team ace (yes, hes the greatest archer on the planet but his sidekick is better at everything else than he is) and built off his working class man-of the-people vibe. Iron Fist introduced a Mortal Kombat-esq cast of characters for Iron Fist to hang out with and or fight.

Storm isnt a man of the people (shes kind of the opposite of that) nor is she a Kung Fu lady that needs Kung Fu buddies to Kung Fu at.

I didn't think giving Storm, Cyclops or Nightcrawler solo books was a good idea from the beginning. That those books are being cancelled one by one is just reality setting in.


(shrugs)

Thing is, in Storm's case, given the artwork and the kinds of stories told there, one cannot make the determination that a Storm solo book cannot sell. The book did not live up to anywhere near its full potential. Regarding NC and Scott, I agree that it was a bad idea to give them their own titles. They don't have the potential Ororo, Logan or even Remy have.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1917 on: April 01, 2015, 11:14:38 am »
All I'm saying is Storm's solo book could have been much better and much more electrifying this year. Pak is a good writer, but he just chose the wrong way to debut the book.
I'm reminded of a quote from Moneyball:
"If he's a good hitter, how come he doesn't hit good?"

Warren Ellis couldn't put over Storm.

And that guy was able to get a cult series out of Son of Satan.

Blaming Pak for the Storm series failure is like blaming Rex Ryan for the Jets' failures.

Given with what they both had to work with, neither of them had a chance.

I actually really enjoyed Warren Ellis Storm in Astonishing Xmen.

I'm not sure it would have sold either way, but I do think Pak wrote a mediocre and status quo take on the character that challenged nothing

Warren Ellis writes a very weak Storm in terms of power. I would HATE to see him on a Storm ongoing title.
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)

Offline Emperorjones

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1918 on: April 01, 2015, 03:26:34 pm »
Rutog,

Have you considered that maybe a majority of people/readers prefer Storm in a team book as opposed to a solo? Perhaps that's where they think she fits best and perhaps erroneously don't think she merits getting a solo title. Is it simply an issue of Pak's writing and the artwork that are resulting in the poor sales, as you claim, or more a general sense that Storm belongs in an X-Men book instead of her own series?

The X-Men is her primary identity and how many X-Men, outside of Wolverine, have really been successful as solo stars? While I'm certain Storm has the ingredients for solo success-and if she doesn't they could be added in-perhaps she works better on a team book? As part of an ensemble. Or at least this is the general consensus, as evidenced by her solo title not burning up the charts.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe with a better approach a solo Storm series would've been better received. If Pak had emulated the Hawkeye series or the Black Widow series maybe Storm's book would have caught on more. However Storm isn't an every person. She's like the opposite of that. And to try to copy that might not be true to her character. And then what's the point. How can you say Storm is great if you change everything about her?

I can't fault Pak for rehashing Storm's past. He was doing that for the new fans who didn't know anything about the character. Maybe there could have been a better way to go about it all though.

From what I've read of Pak's run, I think mistakes were made. I would've gone with a new hairstyle, a new outfit, a circle of friends, maybe introducing a love interest-not too soon because she's still grieving over Logan, and upped the villains.

Offline Rutog98

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Re: New Storm Ongoing Title
« Reply #1919 on: April 01, 2015, 04:11:38 pm »
Rutog,

Have you considered that maybe a majority of people/readers prefer Storm in a team book as opposed to a solo? Perhaps that's where they think she fits best and perhaps erroneously don't think she merits getting a solo title. Is it simply an issue of Pak's writing and the artwork that are resulting in the poor sales, as you claim, or more a general sense that Storm belongs in an X-Men book instead of her own series?

The X-Men is her primary identity and how many X-Men, outside of Wolverine, have really been successful as solo stars? While I'm certain Storm has the ingredients for solo success-and if she doesn't they could be added in-perhaps she works better on a team book? As part of an ensemble. Or at least this is the general consensus, as evidenced by her solo title not burning up the charts.

Maybe I'm wrong and maybe with a better approach a solo Storm series would've been better received. If Pak had emulated the Hawkeye series or the Black Widow series maybe Storm's book would have caught on more. However Storm isn't an every person. She's like the opposite of that. And to try to copy that might not be true to her character. And then what's the point. How can you say Storm is great if you change everything about her?

I can't fault Pak for rehashing Storm's past. He was doing that for the new fans who didn't know anything about the character. Maybe there could have been a better way to go about it all though.

From what I've read of Pak's run, I think mistakes were made. I would've gone with a new hairstyle, a new outfit, a circle of friends, maybe introducing a love interest-not too soon because she's still grieving over Logan, and upped the villains.

Hey, if there is a problem with both the stories and the art, what more is there to say? I made the point early on (like when the book debuted) that Pak seems to be writing stories about highlights from Storm's past, but then I also added back then that he didn't have to tell all of that at once. The book should have been user friendly for both old and new readers. Her old stories could have been brought up in the title over time according to the needs of individual stories. He could have instead wrote stories about her ancestral past (something that is relatively untouched), fleshing that out and using that platform to introduce new friends and foes to her solo title and her own personal canon.

(Dang, again, IF I were writing for Marvel, I have a good 12 issue arc or so story that would totally do what I outlined above and my ideas KICK BUTT!!!!!)

Regarding the last part of your post that I bolded out, that's a heckofalot to change, wouldn't you say? ;) All I'm saying is the book could have been MUCH more engaging and electrifying than what we got this first year.



 
Ex-X-Writer and Ex-X-editor Ann Nocenti writes on Storm:

"At her command, oceans rise, breezes cool, rains pummel, tornadoes destroy, sun dries, seas part."

Take from page 24 or 26 of her novel, "Prisoner X"

Pretty nifty! ;)