Author Topic: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American  (Read 25839 times)

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2007, 09:25:32 pm »
Loren.Yaw.Curtis.Everybody else.

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It is patently stupid to assume that a non-English speaking country is literally speaking not only English but modern American English,complete with modern slang.This should not even be a subject of discussion.They are speaking Wakandan except for when they are speaking to non-Wakandans or excpet when the DM are speaking to BP specifically and privately.Anybody who argues or suggests otherwise is thoroughly misled.So what that there isn't the specific in-story reference to this? That's like assuming that Namor is a native english speaker.A story about Namor won't always bracket his language when he's speaking to other Atlanteans,nor would we expect such a thing when the Deviants or other non-humans are speaking.Have you seen any brackets in the language used on PLANET HULK? Has anyone harped upon how absurd it is for THE HULK to just whoopsy-daisy land on an ENGLISH SPEAKING PLANET OF FRIGGIN NON-HUMANS? No? Because the whole suspension of belief thing combined with the important issue which is: ENJOY THE DAMN STORY is so prevalent as to be immediately grasped and understood without need for further clarification.

The same thing applies to RH BP...excepting for those whom are looking to couch their dislike of the series as attacks on the quality of writing.Frequently the real issue which is being couched in other terms is an issue of STYLE PREFERENCE or TASTE.Okay fine.Had that discussion.Also very frequently,the issue is magnified by the misunderstandings that arise between two racial groups with a long standing history of conflict and uneasy resolution,and the murky lens that the fanbratti use--even with the best of intentions--to perceive us.Broad misunderstandings under such conditions are mandatory,and not always of malicious intent.Assuming malice to be the source of every misunderstanding or conflict is second only to assuming that malice is nonexistent in ANY misunderstanding or conflct.

Loren,nobody was trying to turn the conversation into a conversation solely about race,with you as the much maligned but actually altruistic outsider.However,it's impossible to NOT apply race to this conversation...and those whom fail to see the connection fail to perceive the issue properly.Period.

There are "Americanisms" in RH BP and anybody else who has crafted BP as well.Even PRIEST couldn't avoid it...and his interpretation of a Wakanda not influenced by Western powers is the view of a man whom IS influenced by Western power's view of a whole country whom ISN'T.Once again,those who take umbrage with RH BP for not taking on the same or similar approach as PRIEST has are decrying the style of the writer,not the quality of the story.Remember we still have a whole year of stories to read in '07 so we don't really KNOW what's the final word on Wakandan perspectives under RH BP,although to me it's clear: RH has not altered the fact that less than 10 name characters in all of MU have ever left Wakanda,and RH had TSYAN fervently deny any desire to live in NEW YORK or anywhere else for any period of time as opposed to Wakanda...and stil lless than 10 names have left Wakanda for even BRIEF periods,excepting always of course RH TCHALLA himself.

So...language and slanguage? Translated always unless otherwise noted. Interpretation of Wakanda? Still much more to come,the jury's out...don't like the interpretation you see so far? Style preference,which is your business.The writing is still done with quality...and quality is frequently in the final analysis a SUBJECTIVE APPRAISAL,and thus too can be chalked up to style preferences,or at least likes,nonommital,or dislike.

But if you're a fan of BP...whether RH BP or not...can we at least agree that RH has engineered the much higher profile and A-list transformation of our hero? Can we not nod to and have applause for this commitment from big wigs at Marvel to BP specifically and diversification slowly but more generally...which RH is a major force for and a major indication of? If we like BP THE CHARACTER,I cannot see how we can fail to conclude that this is a permanently good thing,and at least respect this man RH for doing what nobody else could or would do in that regard.

Let's stop quibbling over these little things that we already know the answer to,and to which RH himself has taken the time to addres in his sticky thread regarding BP HATERS adn FLAMING.

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Offline Wise Son

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #46 on: January 22, 2007, 01:11:43 am »
Cheers SI.

I have to say, I'm still confused by the criticism - a hairdressers and 2 passages of speech make Hudlin's Wakanda 'too American'? Like I said, isn't there more to it than that? The beauty salon is the dumbest argument, and as for the americanisms in the translations, I can see people's points, but I can't believe it's a problem for them. Maybe they could have been written in a more formal and neutral English, but I think, as Loren has acknowledged, it comes down to a  purely stylistic choice by the writer.

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Offline Curtis Metcalf

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #47 on: January 22, 2007, 06:08:49 am »
Maybe they could have been written in a more formal and neutral English, but I think, as Loren has acknowledged, it comes down to a  purely stylistic choice by the writer.
I agree with that.  But going further, I think it is a good choice.  It gives the right sense of the informal language being used.  AFAIK, there is no reason to think that Wakandans would speak formally in informal situations.  I expect they would use colloquialisms in their mother language and so translating them into contemporary American colloquialisms for contemporary American audiences seems sensible.   

Also, IIRC, there is only one period scene pertinent to this translation discussion where the invading force is presumably speaking in their unidentified native language at the very beginning of BP #1.  The only colloquialism that I recall is the one foot soldier saying, "Kiss my butt,..." before perishing.  That doesn't seem unreasonable to me and anyway it's a solitary line of dialog. 

That is to say, I join Wise Son in being a bit perplexed about these criticisms.  I honestly don't understand what the objectors are talking about.
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Offline Yaw

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #48 on: January 22, 2007, 07:08:24 am »
Loren.Yaw.Curtis.Everybody else.

SUPREME ILLUMINATION;


It is patently stupid to assume that a non-English speaking country is literally speaking not only English but modern American English,complete with modern slang.This should not even be a subject of discussion.They are speaking Wakandan except for when they are speaking to non-Wakandans or excpet when the DM are speaking to BP specifically and privately.Anybody who argues or suggests otherwise is thoroughly misled.So what that there isn't the specific in-story reference to this? That's like assuming that Namor is a native english speaker.A story about Namor won't always bracket his language when he's speaking to other Atlanteans,nor would we expect such a thing when the Deviants or other non-humans are speaking.Have you seen any brackets in the language used on PLANET HULK? Has anyone harped upon how absurd it is for THE HULK to just whoopsy-daisy land on an ENGLISH SPEAKING PLANET OF FRIGGIN NON-HUMANS? No? Because the whole suspension of belief thing combined with the important issue which is: ENJOY THE DAMN STORY is so prevalent as to be immediately grasped and understood without need for further clarification.

It was explained in Planet Hulk.  Nano talkbots were implanted in his brain as soon as he arrived to the planet.  As I said before BP and especially Wakanda ARE too WEstern for my tastes.  However this is not the fault of Hudlin.  Every writer has been guilty of this.  OVerall I can suspend my disbelief and roll with it but seeing as this discussion forum, I'm just  discussing my issues with it. 

Personally I would like to see a version of Wakanda that goes the extra mile in representing Wakanda as a nation that is "culturally superior" to the West.  Priest intorduced this idea but he didn't really show it through Wakandan life.  Culture defines ones way of life so technology should be defined through the eyes of a given peoples culture and experiences.  Material culture from which technology emanates should reflect the fundamental culture of a people.  Priest stated that Wakandans were culturally and technologically superior ("until Klaw") but then  on the next page shows them getting WTFPWNT by Klaw and his boys.  Now one could be technologically superior but not really be a violent society or made strides in violent weaponry but Priest always shows Wakandans as being aware and knowledgeable of European weaponry and the ever present threat they represented.  Based on PRiest's statements the Klaw incident should never have went down like it did. 

That is one of the reasons I appreciated Hudlin's reimagined version.  He took Priest's ideas and made it internally consistent.  Klaw being an assassin who took T'Chaka out when T'Chaka was "out of his element" made more sense than Klaw's WTFPWNage if T'Chaka in T'Chaka's own "culturally and technologically superior" kingdom.  Nevertheless I would like to see the culturally-isolated-yet-advanced-technological factor be expressed more rigorously.  For instance, many fanboys find the talk of wakanda's possession of a cure for cancer yet not willing to share it with outsiders as morally repugnant.  T'Chaka suggested that Europeans are not spiritually developed enough to share ideas with them.  Well exploring this further could be quite interesting.  There is a "new" discipline that is beginning to receive more attention within the scientific community of the West called health psychology.  While encompassing many things, overall the idea to look at how physical health issues affect the brain and behavior and vice versa.  One of the more interesting areas generally encompassed in this discipline is psychoimmunology.  Basically psychoimmunology studies how psychological factors stimulate the brain and its subsequent effect on the immune system.  This current movement in science is something that has and continues to be considered within plenty of non-Western approaches to health.  One's physical, emotional, social and spiritual well-being have often been seen as being interwined in many societies.

Is it possible that the Wakandan cure for cancer CAN'T be taught to the West because cultural differences that would prevent total treatment and sustained remission of the disease?  Exploring this issue or representations of Wakanda that do not show to be of Western thinking are what I like to see.  I loved when Hudlin suggested the Wakandan aircraft as relying on magnetic waves as opposed to relying on environmental unfriendly oil.  While this was a Kirby vehicle, Hudlin's comment speaks to the culture of Wakanda as shown in recent years.  TEchnologically of the Wakandans seems to value sustainable forms of energy that can be reused without adverse affect to the environment since they are a people who DON'T MOVE TO OTHER LANDS AFTER THEY HAVE DESTROYED THEIR OWN.  This is why I also liked the use of an energy dagger by BP in Priest's run.  However when Wakandans are shown with guns (in Priest and Hudlin's run) Western-style clothing (every run), jail cells, etc.  I find that disconcerting.  I know its because of my educational background and interests so I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.   

Offline Vic Vega

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #49 on: January 22, 2007, 07:30:39 am »
Loren.Yaw.Curtis.Everybody else.

SUPREME ILLUMINATION;


It is patently stupid to assume that a non-English speaking country is literally speaking not only English but modern American English,complete with modern slang.This should not even be a subject of discussion.They are speaking Wakandan except for when they are speaking to non-Wakandans or excpet when the DM are speaking to BP specifically and privately.Anybody who argues or suggests otherwise is thoroughly misled.So what that there isn't the specific in-story reference to this? That's like assuming that Namor is a native english speaker.A story about Namor won't always bracket his language when he's speaking to other Atlanteans,nor would we expect such a thing when the Deviants or other non-humans are speaking.Have you seen any brackets in the language used on PLANET HULK? Has anyone harped upon how absurd it is for THE HULK to just whoopsy-daisy land on an ENGLISH SPEAKING PLANET OF FRIGGIN NON-HUMANS? No? Because the whole suspension of belief thing combined with the important issue which is: ENJOY THE DAMN STORY is so prevalent as to be immediately grasped and understood without need for further clarification.

For instance, many fanboys find the talk of wakanda's possession of a cure for cancer yet not willing to share it with outsiders as morally repugnant.  T'Chaka suggested that Europeans are not spiritually developed enough to share ideas with them.  Well exploring this further could be quite interesting.  There is a "new" discipline that is beginning to receive more attention within the scientific community of the West called health psychology.  While encompassing many things, overall the idea to look at how physical health issues affect the brain and behavior and vice versa.  One of the more interesting areas generally encompassed in this discipline is psychoimmunology.  Basically psychoimmunology studies how psychological factors stimulate the brain and its subsequent effect on the immune system.  This current movement in science is something that has and continues to be considered within plenty of non-Western approaches to health.  One's physical, emotional, social and spiritual well-being have often been seen as being interwined in many societies.

Is it possible that the Wakandan cure for cancer CAN'T be taught to the West because cultural differences that would prevent total treatment and sustained remission of the disease?  Exploring this issue or representations of Wakanda that do not show to be of Western thinking are what I like to see.  I loved when Hudlin suggested the Wakandan aircraft as relying on magnetic waves as opposed to relying on environmental unfriendly oil.  While this was a Kirby vehicle, Hudlin's comment speaks to the culture of Wakanda as shown in recent years.  TEchnologically of the Wakandans seems to value sustainable forms of energy that can be reused without adverse affect to the environment since they are a people who DON'T MOVE TO OTHER LANDS AFTER THEY HAVE DESTROYED THEIR OWN.  This is why I also liked the use of an energy dagger by BP in Priest's run.  However when Wakandans are shown with guns (in Priest and Hudlin's run) Western-style clothing (every run), jail cells, etc.  I find that disconcerting.  I know its because of my educational background and interests so I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.   

For instance, many fanboys find the talk of wakanda's possession of a cure for cancer yet not willing to share it with outsiders as morally repugnant.

This I find to be one of the GOOFIEST critiscisms leveled against the book IMHO. No "hidden land" ever shared its high tech with the outside world. DC's Amazons never revealed the secret of the Purple Healing Ray to the outside world despite the fact that it would save millions of lives. Why are the Wakandans any diffrent?They're isolationists. That means: "@#$& everbody who isnt us."     

I think the thinking was that even if the Wakandans did release the cure for cancer to the west, they would only supress it as the Cancer Industry is a very lucrative one. See the Doctor Strange mini "the Oath" where Doc stumbles on a Cancer cure and set upon by assassins sent from the medical industry. :D I think that was the point of the line "They (the west) would only make a weapon of it, as they do everthing else." 


Offline bluezulu

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #50 on: January 22, 2007, 07:46:10 am »
Hold on to this. The above statement by you captures your major beef with Hudlin in this series.

Um, this subject has never been one of my major beefs with this series.  In fact, I've probably written more about it in this thread than I have in the last two years.  Heck, I only piped in on it because Wise specifically asked for a counterpoint.  And my other, bigger complaints cannot be chalked up to style.

Quote
If you care to do it, I suggest you do because the energy you put behind this, warrants you taking the extra step to go rent two movies directed by Reggie. Boomerang and BeBes kids.

I've seen Bebe's Kids, though it was probably 10 years ago now.  I rather enjoyed it, in fact.  (Though according to IMdB, Reggie wrote the screenplay; another guy directed it.)  I'm not sure of your point, though, since the movie was first and foremost a comedy, and I don't recall it having any scenes that were notably more serious or somber than, say, "The Lion King" (even though the film was certainly more adult).

Quote
Also check out his contribution to the book Birth of a nation. In it you will see the same dance between deeply serious moments that are not designed to make you laugh and those that will have you rollin with laughter.

I've read it, and I enjoyed it too.  Not my favorite comic, but good satire, and you're right, some very funny scenes.  (My biggest beef with it is that I wish they'd had Blackland succeed with less underhanded activity.  Building the economy on the money of drug lords and arms dealers wasn't the best foundation, and making their own conspiratorial deals to suppress world-saving technological advancements kinda undercut their moral victory, IMO.)

And as long as we're talking Reggie's pre-BP work, I was a HUGE Bernie Mac Show fan for the first three years or so.  It was appointment television.  Then Fox started jumping it around the schedule, and I lost track of it after it went on hiatus and ended up on Fridays.

Quote
It is a valid way to tell a story.

Hmm.  Mixing deeply serious moments with drop-dead hilarious comedy.  Maybe that's why I can't stand "Scrubs" or "The Office."

No, wait, that's not right.  I love "The Office," and "Scrubs" is probably my favorite sitcom ever.  Maybe you're confusing me with someone whose taste in entertainment you actually know something about. :)

Quote
Black people love it. That is why Tyler Perry has so much success. He can take very serious issues. Make you laugh about it and teach you something at the same time. The final point is that if you like this book or the writer it comes down to one simple thing taste. For the past two years we have seen a ton of arguments raised by fanboys. Trust me. The problem isn't the writer. That is why we have had such a Strong rebuttal to your statements. We watch movies and read books in the style of the black panther all the time. It was no biggie to us. Actually we were presently surprised that marvel would take such a contemporary urban (black) style to telling super hero stories.

Wow.  I make a series of posts that make no reference to race whatsoever, and you rebut by claiming that I don't appreciate the book because I'm white.  I'd be annoyed, but I've done that before and nothing good came of it.  So I'll be amused at how subtly you tried to turn the discussion into one on race, with me as the defendant.  It was a noble effort, but I'm not biting.

Quote
You all were shook because Reg did not tell the traditional super hero stories in the exact same super hero way.

Yeah, that's why I'm a huge Priest fan, since we all know Priest tells traditional superhero stories in the exact same superhero way.
---------------------------------
Umm you can talk about race and not have it resort to charges of racism or what not? I'm black and your not. While you indirectly benefit from things about race and I am in some ways at a disadvantage because of them, I don't personally blame you for any of that. Also I don't make as much a distinction between the "three headed monsters" don't take it personal it's just impossible for me to make the separation between you jer and that guy. For all it's worth I have not been able to make a clear cut distinction between you the real person behind the computer screen and the other two gentlemen. I know that could be seen to be real disrespectful, but it's not my intention. You 3 have not contributed very much to non- comic discussion or any other threads here or any where else that I may have seen. Ok let's not have a good thread get off track. :)

So if you say that Reg story telling method is a valid approach to telling a story, then your problem is that he is not Priest. Being that he will never be Priest, you can move on and try to get into the series or not eh?

Offline bluezulu

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #51 on: January 22, 2007, 08:43:26 am »
When Americans are up in arms over stem cell research ethics, I find it highly likely that Wakandans would be hesitant to shair the cure for cancer if it involves a process that is culturally suitable for them but not for the west. Also look at our health policies and how it caters to the pharmaceutical companies and hmo's. I would not say that I in the wakandan's fictional place would not offer up a cure to the outside world but I can understand why the wakandans wouldnt.

Offline Wise Son

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #52 on: January 23, 2007, 01:38:39 am »
Also I don't make as much a distinction between the "three headed monsters" don't take it personal it's just impossible for me to make the separation between you jer and that guy. For all it's worth I have not been able to make a clear cut distinction between you the real person behind the computer screen and the other two gentlemen.
Well, be fair - Loren has clearly actually read the comic, and is backing up what he says with real quotes, not just 'some guy on CBR said...' Also, he was responding to something I asked, and didn't just leap in with 'HUDLIN SUX!!11!' like some of the really bad trolls do. I don't agree with Loren, but I'd rather some of the recent trouble-makers followed his example when it came to presenting contrary opiions.

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Offline Salustrade

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2007, 09:16:40 am »
I look at it the same way I look at period movies, or foreign films, or even Bible translations.  Naturally, the words have to be translated simply to be understood by the reader or viewer.  Even Old English wouldn't sound terribly familiar to our ears.  And sometimes literal translations aren't accurate ones.


But The Black Panther is not a period/foreign/Biblical epic.  It's a modern day superhero comic book...written by Westerners for Westerners.

Exactly.  BP is contemporary.  The target audience is contemporary Westerners.  I would expect informal speech to be ... informal.  No matter what language it is conducted in.

And has it been said that all Wakandans speak Hausa now?  Because back under Priest, Hausa wasn't widely spoken in Wakanda, and was used by the Dora Milaje specifically because it meant that their conversations with T'Challa would be private.

I presume this is an aside.  Even if the Wakandans aren't speaking Hausa, I don't think they're speaking English either.  Just out of curiosity, do you speak another language? 

^^^Out of curiousity, what does the term "westerner" actually mean to you?

Offline Blanks

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #54 on: April 21, 2007, 08:03:42 am »
everyone has all made some valid points. Some I agree with, other's not. But hey, that's the whole point of a message board, eh? To debate. Eh? Eh? Am I right or am I right?

Anyhoo, for a simplier counter... I am one who misses the ol < and > in the word bubbles when the Wakandan's are talking to each other.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #55 on: April 22, 2007, 01:35:55 pm »
Loren.Yaw.Curtis.Everybody else.

SUPREME ILLUMINATION;


It is patently stupid to assume that a non-English speaking country is literally speaking not only English but modern American English,complete with modern slang.This should not even be a subject of discussion.They are speaking Wakandan except for when they are speaking to non-Wakandans or excpet when the DM are speaking to BP specifically and privately.Anybody who argues or suggests otherwise is thoroughly misled.So what that there isn't the specific in-story reference to this? That's like assuming that Namor is a native english speaker.A story about Namor won't always bracket his language when he's speaking to other Atlanteans,nor would we expect such a thing when the Deviants or other non-humans are speaking.Have you seen any brackets in the language used on PLANET HULK? Has anyone harped upon how absurd it is for THE HULK to just whoopsy-daisy land on an ENGLISH SPEAKING PLANET OF FRIGGIN NON-HUMANS? No? Because the whole suspension of belief thing combined with the important issue which is: ENJOY THE DAMN STORY is so prevalent as to be immediately grasped and understood without need for further clarification.

It was explained in Planet Hulk.  Nano talkbots were implanted in his brain as soon as he arrived to the planet.  As I said before BP and especially Wakanda ARE too WEstern for my tastes.  However this is not the fault of Hudlin.  Every writer has been guilty of this.  OVerall I can suspend my disbelief and roll with it but seeing as this discussion forum, I'm just  discussing my issues with it. 

Personally I would like to see a version of Wakanda that goes the extra mile in representing Wakanda as a nation that is "culturally superior" to the West.  Priest intorduced this idea but he didn't really show it through Wakandan life.  Culture defines ones way of life so technology should be defined through the eyes of a given peoples culture and experiences.  Material culture from which technology emanates should reflect the fundamental culture of a people.  Priest stated that Wakandans were culturally and technologically superior ("until Klaw") but then  on the next page shows them getting WTFPWNT by Klaw and his boys.  Now one could be technologically superior but not really be a violent society or made strides in violent weaponry but Priest always shows Wakandans as being aware and knowledgeable of European weaponry and the ever present threat they represented.  Based on PRiest's statements the Klaw incident should never have went down like it did. 

That is one of the reasons I appreciated Hudlin's reimagined version.  He took Priest's ideas and made it internally consistent.  Klaw being an assassin who took T'Chaka out when T'Chaka was "out of his element" made more sense than Klaw's WTFPWNage if T'Chaka in T'Chaka's own "culturally and technologically superior" kingdom.  Nevertheless I would like to see the culturally-isolated-yet-advanced-technological factor be expressed more rigorously.  For instance, many fanboys find the talk of wakanda's possession of a cure for cancer yet not willing to share it with outsiders as morally repugnant.  T'Chaka suggested that Europeans are not spiritually developed enough to share ideas with them.  Well exploring this further could be quite interesting.  There is a "new" discipline that is beginning to receive more attention within the scientific community of the West called health psychology.  While encompassing many things, overall the idea to look at how physical health issues affect the brain and behavior and vice versa.  One of the more interesting areas generally encompassed in this discipline is psychoimmunology.  Basically psychoimmunology studies how psychological factors stimulate the brain and its subsequent effect on the immune system.  This current movement in science is something that has and continues to be considered within plenty of non-Western approaches to health.  One's physical, emotional, social and spiritual well-being have often been seen as being interwined in many societies.

Is it possible that the Wakandan cure for cancer CAN'T be taught to the West because cultural differences that would prevent total treatment and sustained remission of the disease?  Exploring this issue or representations of Wakanda that do not show to be of Western thinking are what I like to see.  I loved when Hudlin suggested the Wakandan aircraft as relying on magnetic waves as opposed to relying on environmental unfriendly oil.  While this was a Kirby vehicle, Hudlin's comment speaks to the culture of Wakanda as shown in recent years.  TEchnologically of the Wakandans seems to value sustainable forms of energy that can be reused without adverse affect to the environment since they are a people who DON'T MOVE TO OTHER LANDS AFTER THEY HAVE DESTROYED THEIR OWN.  This is why I also liked the use of an energy dagger by BP in Priest's run.  However when Wakandans are shown with guns (in Priest and Hudlin's run) Western-style clothing (every run), jail cells, etc.  I find that disconcerting.  I know its because of my educational background and interests so I'm willing to suspend my disbelief and enjoy the story.  


Whatup Yaw! Thanks for explaining the situation with the talkbots bit...but that doesn't mean that the rest of the peeps on Planet Hulk shouldn't be speaking with brackets around their words.That includes Hulk himself,if he was responding to them in their native tongue (which I would tend to think he was,because they don't have talkbots translating English for them,right?)

And as for the whole issue of Wakandans being too American...remember when Brother Voodoo and BP's uncle were chatting? Can you imagine America with a Regent? Can you imagine ANYBODY LEADING THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT referring to the unification of science and magic as part of the cultural holistic perspective that Wakandans have? Hell,we don't even BELIEVE in straight up pure magic here in the USA.Even those of us who believe ardently in God and stuff and go to church regularly tend to be intensely skeptical of claims of actual magical doings by flesh and blood mortals.Wakandans take magic,science,politics,physical development and more to be a natural and vital synthesis expressing their worldview and how they see themselves.I can't think of a more distinctively non-Western perspective.
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Offline moor

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #56 on: April 23, 2007, 01:28:46 pm »
Couldn't all this have been avoided with a small yellow box and an asterisk stating *Loosely translated....

?

I liked comics better when they were for kids, and editors actually cared about being meticulous.

Offline Salustrade

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #57 on: April 23, 2007, 05:09:56 pm »
Take Priest out of the equation. Priest is old school marvel and Reggie is a new flavor. There is nothing wrong with the two. They are just different and it comes down to taste and which one you prefer. Luckily for me I like both.

^^^What exactly is "old school" Marvel?

I would never have touched a Black Panther comic book outside of the original Kirby/McGregor runs prior to Christopher Priests incredible re-interpretation of the titular character.

He layed the foundations of T'Challa as an uber-cofident African King decked totally self assured and technologically clued up.

Royally aloof but compassionate, passionate about justice and his nation States place in the world, Christopher Priests take on T'Challa/Black Panther was nothing short of mindblowing and I found myself totally blown away by the sheer brilliance of the revitalised character and his portrayal.

If Christopher Priest had not layed the new foundations down for T'Challa, there would have been nothing for Reginald Hudlin to build upon.

I don't see what "new" school has to do with anything in this regard.

If you want urban lingo look to Luke Cage for that.

T'Challa is an African King and I dont really expect him to be talking about getting jiggy with it.

Offline supreme illuminati

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2007, 10:32:20 am »
Take Priest out of the equation. Priest is old school marvel and Reggie is a new flavor. There is nothing wrong with the two. They are just different and it comes down to taste and which one you prefer. Luckily for me I like both.

^^^What exactly is "old school" Marvel?

I would never have touched a Black Panther comic book outside of the original Kirby/McGregor runs prior to Christopher Priests incredible re-interpretation of the titular character.

He layed the foundations of T'Challa as an uber-cofident African King decked totally self assured and technologically clued up.

Royally aloof but compassionate, passionate about justice and his nation States place in the world, Christopher Priests take on T'Challa/Black Panther was nothing short of mindblowing and I found myself totally blown away by the sheer brilliance of the revitalised character and his portrayal.

If Christopher Priest had not layed the new foundations down for T'Challa, there would have been nothing for Reginald Hudlin to build upon.

I don't see what "new" school has to do with anything in this regard.

If you want urban lingo look to Luke Cage for that.

T'Challa is an African King and I dont really expect him to be talking about getting jiggy with it.


Hahahahahaha!! I really like this post! I love Priest too--as everyone knows--but I don't actually think that TChalla sayin "boo" means that he's too American.Africans and African-Americans have the same cultural and racial root--not to mention branches and trunk,lol--so striking cultural similarities shouldn't be viewed as shocking or unrealistic.I have cousins from Nigeria whom quote Biggie and Jay-Z.We over here have spoken of our love for African music many a time.Nobody accused us of being "too African".What exactly does that mean? And since when could being "African-American" be perceived as being "too American"? Somebody explain that to me.I could understand that if the police started  racially profiling TChalla when he and Luke and Blade,Brother Voodoo and Monica came to New Awlins,but other than that...it's going to take some work to connect the two,IMHO.

Some of us may remember that old skool film short in black and white showing African villagers doing the old skool dance called the Charleston that came out when my father was a child...and these Africans hadn't the advantage of cable.I'm thinking that the Wakandans have cable,or actually cable to the bazillionth power.I think that they may regard 99.9% of the television programming of "outworlders" to be the equivalent of THE JERRY SPRINGER SHOW and would likely never watch it...and like most of us,would never watch the crapola,but would be conversant enough with the material to know it when we see it.Sounds contradictory,but it's not.If anyone needs a further example,I will be happy to comply.
I AM THAT WHICH GODS,DEMONS,IMMORTALS AND ANGELS FEAR.I AM THAT WHICH PERFECTION ITSELF ASPIRES TO BE
BLACK PANTHER FANFIC:
http://archiveofourown.org/works/663070
Sub my YouTube with the world's first and only viral "capoeira" gun disarm technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM5F_qg2oFw

GrimSkill

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Re: For anyone who thinks that Hudlin's Wakanda is too American
« Reply #59 on: May 04, 2007, 05:22:54 pm »
This is very Correct,there is no reason the Wakandan people should be thought of as not having Cable :D